Megaupload SHUT DOWN ... More to follow?

[GroobySteven]

Win for anti-piracy. Watch our for more to follow and these companies closing their sites.


http://www.xbiz.com/news/143421

WASHINGTON — Cyberlocker site Megaupload.com (http://www.megaupload.com/) has been shut down and its operators have been charged in the U.S. with running an international organized criminal enterprise allegedly responsible for "massive worldwide online piracy" of numerous types of copyrighted works, including porn.
The U.S. Justice Department and FBI announced the indictments today after a multi-agency, multi-country investigation. The agencies said Megaupload.com and other related sites generated more than $175 million in criminal proceeds and caused more than $500 million in harm to copyright owners.
"This action is among the largest criminal copyright cases ever brought by the U.S. and directly targets the misuse of a public content storage and distribution site to commit and facilitate intellectual property crime," the agencies said in a joint statement.
The individuals and two corporations — Megaupload Ltd. and Vestor Ltd. —were indicted by a grand jury in Virginia on Jan. 5, the agencies said.
Charges include in engaging in a racketeering conspiracy, conspiring to commit copyright infringement, conspiring to commit money laundering and two substantive counts of criminal copyright infringement.
The individuals each face a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit racketeering, five years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit money laundering and five years in prison on each of the substantive charges of criminal copyright infringement.
The indictment alleges that the criminal enterprise is led by Kim Dotcom, aka Kim Schmitz, and Kim Tim Jim Vestor, 37, a resident of both Hong Kong and New Zealand.
Dotcom founded Megaupload Ltd. and is the director and sole shareholder of Vestor Ltd., which has been used to hold his ownership interests in the Mega-affiliated sites, including Megarotic.com, Megaporn.com, Megavideo.com and Megaclick.com, the agencies said.
In addition, the following alleged employees of the alleged conspiracy were charged in the indictment, including Finn Batato, 38, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the chief marketing officer; Julius Bencko, 35, a citizen and resident of Slovakia, who is the graphic designer; Sven Echternach, 39, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the head of business development; and Mathias Ortmann, 40, a citizen of Germany and resident of both Germany and Hong Kong, who is the chief technical officer, co-founder and director.
Also charged were Andrus Nomm, 32, a citizen of Estonia and resident of both Turkey and Estonia, who is a software programmer and head of the development software division; and Bram van der Kolk, aka Bramos, 29, a Dutch citizen and resident of both the Netherlands and New Zealand, who oversees programming and the underlying network structure for the Mega conspiracy websites.
Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann, and van der Kolk were arrested today in Auckland, New Zealand, by New Zealand authorities, who executed provisional arrest warrants requested by the United States. Bencko, Echternach, and Nomm remain at large.
Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the U.S. and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets, and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, the Netherlands and Canada.
In addition, the U.S. District Court at Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged conspiracy.
According to the indictment, for more than five years the conspiracy has operated websites that unlawfully reproduce and distribute infringing copies of copyrighted works, including movies — often before their theatrical release — music, television programs, electronic books, and business and entertainment software on a massive scale.
The conspirators’ content hosting site, Megaupload.com, is advertised as having more than one billion visits to the site, more than 150 million registered users, 50 million daily visitors, and accounting for four percent of the total traffic on the Internet, the agencies said.
The indictment states that the conspirators conducted their illegal operation using a business model expressly designed to promote uploading of the most popular copyrighted works for many millions of users to download.
The indictment alleges that the site was structured to discourage the vast majority of its users from using Megaupload for long-term or personal storage by automatically deleting content that was not regularly downloaded.
The charged further allegedly offered a rewards program that would provide users with financial incentives to upload popular content and drive web traffic to the site, often through user-generated websites known as linking sites. They also allegedly paid users whom they specifically knew uploaded infringing content and publicized their links to users throughout the world.
The indictment charges the defendants with conspiring to launder money by paying users through the sites’ uploader reward program and paying companies to host the infringing content.
Megaupload currently is engaged in a lawsuit with Universal over the promotional video and Universal’s efforts to have it removed from YouTube.
In November, adult company Perfect 10 and Megaupload reached a settlement agreement in Megaload's $5 million copyright infringement suit. Details of the settlement weren’t disclosed at the time.
Megaupload attorney Ira Rothken did not immediately respond to XBIZ requests for comment by post time.

[RallyCola]

are your pants tight steven?

[GroobySteven]

are your pants tight steven?

Wet.

[Faldur]

Just an average guys observations, but it would seem the "tube" sights are doing more or at least as much damage to the industry. And they seem to breed like moss in Seattle. It will be interesting to watch this play out.

[SunshyneMonroe]

Just an average guys observations, but it would seem the "tube" sights are doing more or at least as much damage to the industry. And they seem to breed like moss in Seattle. It will be interesting to watch this play out.

ALOT of sites post videos there too get new members as well tho....

[kittyKaiti]

In other news, within hours after the end of a worldwide internet blackout protest against SOPA and PIPA, Anonymous launches the largest internet based offensive ever with combined numbers of attackers in the thousands from various nations, bring down over a dozen websites in retaliation for the downing of MegaUpload.com. Servers for corporations and federal agencies such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), Department of Justice (DOJ.gov), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI.gov) and many others are rendered inaccessible for hours. Assaults continue, taking more websites and servers down.

MEGAUPLOAD IS DOWN!! Due to S.O.P.A | Help Anonymous with Operation Blackout to stop this!! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smb-cFSDXrw)

[giovanni_hotel]

Damn. Megaupload and Megaerotic were the best DL sites in the world.

None of those people are going to see a minute in a U.S. jail BTW.

What I don't get is there are at least a dozen other free DL sites like Megaupload. What about them.

Ah, I'm feeling nostalgic for the good ol' bad days of the internet.

You can't spell interwebz without the word F-R-E-E.

[bart87]

anybody who supports SOPA can go to hell

[Jamie French]

Until they make a piece of media for profit that otherwise would not have been made regardless of demand, and then try to sell it. Your average schmo will never understand how frustrating it is to see your hard work spread around like the clap.

Don't get me wrong, free information and media is great but there's a difference between someone uploading their song or art work for free to be shared with the rest of the world, and legitimate businesses who are doing there level best to generate the kind of content people are willing to pay for.

I give my music away for free, make my money playing live gigs. I do it because my love of music is that intense. I would and will do it for free for the rest of my days even if it meant I sleep on the streets.

Does anyone honestly think we film this shit because we think being in porn fulfills any kind of real creative yearning? There are much easier and more meaningful ways to have sex for judas sake!

Words are wasted on those who consume without having ever sacrificed.

[kittyKaiti]

It does not justify shutting down DMCA compliant websites, arresting it's owners and charging them with federal offenses leading to 20+ years imprisonment in a federal pen. Not all uploaded material on megaupload was copyrighted and MegaUpload's admin's complied with DMCA takedowns and did what they could to removed infringing material. Attacks like this by the government against websites, especially if SOPA and PIPA are enacted into law, threaten every blog, forum, file sharing site, online storage sites, social networking, fan sites, news media and search engines on the internet.

[Jamie French]

I take my lumps every time I make a mistake because of something I didn't take the time to think through. I've done plenty of jail time for very dumb and avoidable things. As near as I can tell the people at Megaupload are no better than me and need to take the pinch in stride. The rest of us do.

If you're a company that honors DMCA notices you ought to take the extra step and put uploads on hold for approval before they ever reach the public. But that would be the ethical thing to do, and there's no cash in ethics.

It's been said that it's the government's job to protect me from you and not protect me from myself... in this case, it looks like I'm being protected from them - applied to this situation, everything looks koesher to me.

+ 1 for the feds. I knew there was neat stuff my taxes went to!

[SunshyneMonroe]

It does not justify shutting down DMCA compliant websites, arresting it's owners and charging them with federal offenses leading to 20+ years imprisonment in a federal pen. Not all uploaded material on megaupload was copyrighted and MegaUpload's admin's complied with DMCA takedowns and did what they could to removed infringing material. Attacks like this by the government against websites, especially if SOPA and PIPA are enacted into law, threaten every blog, forum, file sharing site, online storage sites, social networking, fan sites, news media and search engines on the internet.

Oh kitty btw I think I kinda want you too fuck me :)

[klownybrown]

Sorry, that's bull. It's not like megaupload had only three uploads a day that could easily be monitored. Also, they can't possibly employ enough knowledgeable people who can decide whether a file is a pirate copy, a home made project or possibly even some viral/guerilla marketing stunt.
I agree that megaupload and similar companies base their business on piracy - but the business model itself isn't illegal and if it weren't for industry lobbyism, nobody would give a damn either.

Oh, and not to forget, there are a lot of innocent casualties in the killing of megaupload. I have downloaded plenty of free and legal stuff from there (those one click hosters are rather popular with hobbyists who create sounds and samples for others to use for example). I won't debate that this might be the minority of their multi petabyte storage space, but it still exists... or rather existed. So, in itself, this one is a fine sample taste of what SOPA and similar bills have in stock.

[AmyDaly]

Oh kitty btw I think I kinda want you too fuck me :)
i'm liking this new ts lesbian side of you coming out : )

[kittyKaiti]

Oh kitty btw I think I kinda want you too fuck me :)

Oh my... I would love to make that happen. :fuckin:

[RallyCola]

i am just going to renew my argument that i make every time this come up in any forum.

having some turd download your shit illegally is not really losing money or giving your hard work away for free because I contest that most downloaders would not normally have paid for the material they just stole. Jamie, if you sold your videos for $1 each on your website, people would still steal them just because $1 is still to much for them to pay. For these people, if you died tomorrow, they wouldn't care and they would just download something else. It isn't that they like your videos so much as they just don't want to pay for any one's videos....so while I think theft is wrong...playing the "oh my work was stolen...boo hoo for me" card is pointless. if you were not making $$$ from people that liked your videos enough to pay for them, you would just stop making videos.

[Jamie French]

Ok, let's take that argument out of the equation.

How about this.

I believe in what I'm about to say just as equally as my first argument... How about, Fuck 'em no matter what their reasons for stealing are. Whether it's cause they want MY stuff or they wanted ANY stuff for free. Fuck 'em and let 'em hang cause the world could use a lot less shitty people in general.

How about that, does that chap your ass?



i am just going to renew my argument that i make every time this come up in any forum.

having some turd download your shit illegally is not really losing money or giving your hard work away for free because I contest that most downloaders would not normally have paid for the material they just stole. Jamie, if you sold your videos for $1 each on your website, people would still steal them just because $1 is still to much for them to pay. For these people, if you died tomorrow, they wouldn't care and they would just download something else. It isn't that they like your videos so much as they just don't want to pay for any one's videos....so while I think theft is wrong...playing the "oh my work was stolen...boo hoo for me" card is pointless. if you were not making $$$ from people that liked your videos enough to pay for them, you would just stop making videos.

[SunshyneMonroe]

i'm liking this new ts lesbian side of you coming out : )

Girl you know its been there I just played with a couple a few weeks ago and really had a good time...she was gg but still an ok time :)

[kittyKaiti]

i am just going to renew my argument that i make every time this come up in any forum.

having some turd download your shit illegally is not really losing money or giving your hard work away for free because I contest that most downloaders would not normally have paid for the material they just stole. Jamie, if you sold your videos for $1 each on your website, people would still steal them just because $1 is still to much for them to pay. For these people, if you died tomorrow, they wouldn't care and they would just download something else. It isn't that they like your videos so much as they just don't want to pay for any one's videos....so while I think theft is wrong...playing the "oh my work was stolen...boo hoo for me" card is pointless. if you were not making $$$ from people that liked your videos enough to pay for them, you would just stop making videos.

tl;dr "I don't feel like paying for shit, I'mma steal it."

[Silcc69]

Oh kitty btw I think I kinda want you too fuck me :)

I want to fuck you too, let's make a movie. :fuckin::fuckin:

[RallyCola]

Ok, let's take that argument out of the equation.

How about this.

I believe in what I'm about to say just as equally as my first argument... How about, Fuck 'em no matter what their reasons for stealing are. Whether it's cause they want MY stuff or they wanted ANY stuff for free. Fuck 'em and let 'em hang cause the world could use a lot less shitty people in general.

How about that, does that chap your ass?

that's a better argument.

if i went to your house and pocketed your vibrator, its the same thing as me stealing your uploaded content. its illegal to steal. i mean, moses did carve that rule into some stone years ago and it's held up.

that said however...i do find fault with the witchhunt. if individual downloaders were targeted for theft, i'd be fine with it. charging a company for facilitating theft is not unlike charging Chevy or Ford for manslaughter if they sold a car to someone who killed someone with it...or charging KFC for assault because I ate my mash potatoes with a spork and shoved it in someone's eye. Hosting companies are not the real villain...the end user is

[Jamie French]

They knowingly accept the most sought after unlicensed content and use the traffic to profit from the ad revenue. They only take down what's DMCA'd material because they know it's a only a small fraction of the overall draw.

There is no analogy I could come up with that would more clearly illustrate this most extreme form of cut rate fencing, with the additional up-sell of whatever services their adware is pitching.

Sorry, but at the very least it's obtusely unethical and we live in a society that demands ethical behavior. We don't always get it but we punish those we suss out.


that's a better argument.

if i went to your house and pocketed your vibrator, its the same thing as me stealing your uploaded content. its illegal to steal. i mean, moses did carve that rule into some stone years ago and it's held up.

that said however...i do find fault with the witchhunt. if individual downloaders were targeted for theft, i'd be fine with it. charging a company for facilitating theft is not unlike charging Chevy or Ford for manslaughter if they sold a car to someone who killed someone with it...or charging KFC for assault because I ate my mash potatoes with a spork and shoved it in someone's eye. Hosting companies are not the real villain...the end user is

[stimpy17]

Gee, not a word about GW being the cause of it.

[Nowhere]

This just shows there's absolutely ZERO need for SOPA and PIPA. They can shut down piracy 100% without it.

[TSLoverIB]

haha, so true, and very funny jamie

[postopadmirer]

This just shows there's absolutely ZERO need for SOPA and PIPA. They can shut down piracy 100% without it.
Agreed, I usually hate new laws because they are less about the law and more about being popular and getting reelected. There are plenty of laws to punish theft.

[TSLoverIB]

Wow is all i can say, i can not say i do not agree with the action of going after the company. This company had clear knowledge that the content uploaded was copyrighted, no question. With that said, i do agree with others comments of the end user being a part of the problem as well. I guess it will be interesting to see how this goes.

[ballzNnutz]

wont stop piracy, just open the door for some new site to pop up.

[kittyKaiti]

This just shows there's absolutely ZERO need for SOPA and PIPA. They can shut down piracy 100% without it.

The difference is that the SOPA and PIPA laws specified, if you read deeper into the long long report of pages containing all the specifics, they enable the government to just shut down anything they want to, whether in regards to "piracy" or just "the government finds this material offensive" (things like political debate, blogs, dissent, pornography (or porn classified as "obscene or indecent") or other things that may be "offensive" to those big giant lobbying corporations like poor movie reviews, shitty ratings, commentary and whatever else the MPAA or RIAA may view undesirably effecting the content they produce and release.

[TSLoverIB]

I have not read this idiotic stack of wasted paper as of yet. If what you say is true kitty, i only hope there are individuals ready to fight it. On the other hand, i seem to find myself this very second thinking. What good could come from the bills being passed? Think about it, i grew up in the 80's, before the world wide web exploded in to my living room. It seemed things were a little more simple. I am not sure if it was because i was young or nieve, or was it really a simple time. I listen to people tell me , 50 year olds tell me stories of the greatest times, they would tell me about the 60's and 70's. I have heard that sex and love was easier, that you could go to visit mexico without getting shot by drug cartels.
Now with all thats said, i do understand even in the 80's had huge problems of course, aids being one of them. But now i find myself wondering, is the internet bringing more bad then good ? I have read so many statistics of obese kids that spend all there time online. You read about more and more information being stolen from from credit cards to social security numbers everything. I see love not being charished as it once was, people say ok, you dont want me, ill go online and find someone knew. Or people cheating on there wives or husbands now more and more because it is easier. Does every girl i meet, do i have to ask them, have you been in porn? If i search your name will i find 3000 movies of different guys with you.
On top of all of that, its easier to find information, anything, information that in my mind should not be accessable to idiots. For such reasons, i believe librarys were created, to provide the public with knowledge, yet protect the innocent from idiots that should not be accessing specific information. I remember growing up, i went to the library, people that checked out specific boots were put on a list. Knowlegde is power, only the ones who can handle it should have access to it right ? I find myself asking what good has the internet brought, other then a easier way to surf my favorite tgirl movies, buying stuff off of ebay, finding a way to fix my car step by step, haha. Maybe these bills are s step forward to making a solid law to make the internet good to use? I do not know, What is everyones thoughts?

[JenniferParisHusband]

Rally, there's tons of precedent for charging a company like Megaupload for it. Chevy and Ford are just the wrong example. The reason they can go after a Megaupload, as they did with Napster, Limewire, etc. is that the primary focus of the application relates to the illegal act, file sharing. Complicity is guaged by whether or not the company would 1) have a use that is outweighs the risk of the criminal activity, and 2) did the company actively take steps to reduce the illegal act. Simply posting a warning not to share copyrighted works isn't enough anymore, the company, once they possess knowledge of the illegal activity, must actively take steps to quash the illegal activity, or they risk becoming intertwined with it. Thus, when the indictment states... "that the conspirators conducted their illegal operation using a business model expressly designed to promote uploading of the most popular copyrighted works for many millions of users to download," the government is alleging that not only is the site's primary goal the conduct of illegal activity, and that the alleged named defendants did not take steps to quell the illegal activity, they instead encouraged it (by way of not monitoring the activity, the alleged money laundering via the rewards programs, etc). This encouragement even takes the form of the website itself having no reasonable utility beyond the illegal activity.

This is the US Government, and they've been known to blow big cases before, but if you know your white collar crime statutes, this sounds like the indictment is a slam dunk for the Feds. I'm sure at some point this will also be amended to include Wire Fraud, which is a big fall-back for the Feds in cases like this. The hardest part will be getting some of these guys to the US for their hearings. The civil suit with Perfect 10 is one thing, a criminal case is a whole other matter. Good luck getting someone here from Estonia. Those guys from Auckland are screwed though.

[Nowhere]

The difference is that the SOPA and PIPA laws specified, if you read deeper into the long long report of pages containing all the specifics, they enable the government to just shut down anything they want to, whether in regards to "piracy" or just "the government finds this material offensive" (things like political debate, blogs, dissent, pornography (or porn classified as "obscene or indecent") or other things that may be "offensive" to those big giant lobbying corporations like poor movie reviews, shitty ratings, commentary and whatever else the MPAA or RIAA may view undesirably effecting the content they produce and release.

Agreed completely, I was just showing how their arguments for the bills are utter BS. They're designed so that all the media companies and sponsoring organizations will kill independent competition, both now and in the future and so that they can censor anything any everything they want.

[kittyKaiti]

i went to the library, people that checked out specific books were put on a list.

Knowlegde is power, only the ones who can handle it should have access to it right ?

I find myself asking what good has the internet brought,

Maybe these bills are s step forward to making a solid law to make the internet good to use? I do not know, What is everyones thoughts?

These are things the government and top rich elite CEO lobbyists and corrupt religious right wing want/believe in. Laws like these are already in place in nations like Egypt who have the ability to shut down anything they find offensive or threatening to the governments. During the Arab Spring, this kind of bullshit enabled various countries to track protesters, shut down communications, disrupt vital services and suppress news to the outside world. SOPA and PIPA and previous attempted laws like ACTA and many others are attempts by those in power to strip Americans of their rights, one by one, under the guise of trying to "protect the people".

[kukm4]

as posted in a diff thread.

PROTECT IP / SOPA Breaks The Internet
PROTECT IP / SOPA Breaks The Internet on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/31100268)

[kittyKaiti]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!

FBI raids and destroys MegaUpload....hours later, Anonymous, hackers and awesome dudes just make a NEW MegaUpload. LOLOLOLOLOL

http://109.236.83.66/

MegaUpload 2.0's new website!

FUCK SOPA/PIPA. o/ ANONYMOUS

Edit: Site is on and off due to Federal DNS blocking. Using IP address as a URL instead of the actual site address gets around DNS blocking.

[GroobySteven]

Lot's of mis-information in this thread as expected.

Megaupload, knowingly allowed pirated content to be uploaded. They did follow the DMCA laws but could take days to delete the content even when DCMA'd. They are not a company like Youtube or other such social style companies, they existed to make money via an affiliate program built upon stolen content and the amount of stolen material on their servers vastly out-weighed the few bits of user uploaded legal material. It's unlikely that they will ever end up in jail but with their site off-line and arrest warrants on the owners and employees, then it's only good news.

The current DMCA laws as they stand are in-effective and archaic. Designed to protect legitimate sites such as Youtube and server companies, not wholesale piracy.

There are lots of other file locker sites. Some such as Filesonic give producers access to delete contact instantly when found. Nevertheless, they function in much the same way as Megaupload and are probably looking at their business models closely.

Tube sites are relevent but not as bad as File Locker sites which are harder to trace. We can go to a tube site, see our content easily and DMCA it. The content is usually shown in low quality format and clips or scenes. This is not to say it isn't a problem, it is, but unlike tube sites, File Lockers can show complete site rips, full scenes, in massive original files. Links are renamed and hidden and then shown from different forum sites. We spend roughtly 30 man hours a week tracing these links at a substantial cost to outselves.

To say the people who download pirated content would never have bought content is a convenient excuse from those who know it's bullshit. We've seen profits drop as piracy has risen and if you look at the websites or companies even within our niche which have died or stopped updating, then it's mainly because of this. A group of people will never be buyers, that's a given but when that group, make it easy and give away content to the larger, less internet savvy group who COULD be buyers, it's a problem. Surfer A, recently gets on the internet for the first time and has an interest in shemales. He googles it. He gets to see sites where he can download content for free and pay sites. It's unfair competition. Given that criminals make money from shown the content on sites like Megaupload, makes it all the more nefarious and negates the "oooh, everything should be free" fucking jokers.

I've also heard the "you should change your business model" argument. We have. We have in-house staff to DMCA as much as we can so you find less of our content out there, these same staff also use our software to trace pirates. If we find you are in a country where we can take legal action against you, we will. We've had a successful year on taking down piracy and the recouped costs have more than covered our efforts. Industry lawyers are recognising a good ROI on going after pirates and password hackers and there will be more cases as it becomes easier to find.
Millions of dollars are being taken out of the US economy (or whatever tax territory) through this piracy (yes porn companies pay taxes also) much of it going to foreign countries (most piracy is Russian based in our experience).

We will take action against anyone we are able to, if we trace you downloading our stolen content or accessing our sites with a stolen password. This is not the same as the mass bit torrent end-user litigation that we've been doing for 18+ months but action against individuals, who have shared our content on Filelocker or similar sites, or downloaded from such sites.

Although the timing is interersting, this is not a SOPA issue. There clearly needs to be better anti-piracy legislation and it's coming, SOPA will not be it.

[addicted]

fuk all these long explanations about laws seriously. you think this govt is honest and follows rules? get the fuk outta here your crazy just look at how wall street gets away with shit.

anyway that being we all want shit for free but the fact remains if your a fan of any of grooby sites then support them when able and stop being cheap because he no one supports then the production will end period.

sean, b-leave me if any move is made to shut anything its for corrupt corporate fortune 500 cocksuckers cause they could give 2 shits about the avg small business owner like yourself and the great people you have working on the grobby sites.

[Christastic]

Really these legislative and legal solutions are just trying to put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak. Take down something like megaupload and two or three can pop up over night. Pirates will just distribute via multiple sites, and multiple methodologies, creating a black-market cloud, so to speak. We're gonna have to figure out how to have functioning content industries without trying to cripple the internet every time the recording studios/film studios/what have you feel like they've bought enough politicians. So far, no one has done that yet. Fucked if I know what the solution is.

[GroobySteven]

sean, b-leave me if any move is made to shut anything its for corrupt corporate fortune 500 cocksuckers cause they could give 2 shits about the avg small business owner like yourself and the great people you have working on the grobby sites.

Oh I know that, I know they're not on the side of porn companies but even within the mainstream (movies/music) it has to have revenue so we'll take the laws if they helps us also

[hippifried]

I think everybody's looking at this with a wrong headed approach. I can understand the anger of the copyright holders, artists, & whatnot. I also understand the sentiments of those who don't want government control of internet content. I don't have any skin in the game or an ax to grind, but I have yet to see any proof of real damages from file sharing. I see the claims of all the money being "stolen". but is closing this site putting a dime in anybody but the lawyer's pockets, now or in the future? I don't see how. The money we're talking about is a claim of potential. "Could have made this money, maybe, if not for..."

I see this a an income source that's being pissed away by overreacting. These issues were dealt with long ago in the broadcast industry, which is a lot harder to monitor. Is the porn industry locked out of ASCAP or something? Every time you hear a song on the radio, there's "cha-chinging" going on. Mega-uploads was apparently making megabucks off the advertising. Same goes for the other file share systems, tubes, & whatnot. They wouldn't be doing this without some kind of profit. How much did Google pay for You Tube? It just seems counterproductive to be spending all your energy in a futile attempt to shut down the file sharing industry instead of going after a piece of the ad revenue. It won't be as much as having all those people join your sites & pay movie theater prices for a download. But that's not going to happen. You can't even think about touching the kind of volume that these guys have. The Napster plan didn't work. The people who swap files aren't going to pay to do it. They're still going to do what they do though, & somebody with a server is going to help while making a boatload of cash. You guys are attacking your potential partners, & all it is is an expense to you. Time to get pragmatic?

[ilovetgirls36]

hey seanshai when is the us goverment going to shut your websites down? a few of the tgirls on your sites are illegaly in the us...i know cause i personally know two of them

[Jericho]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....Makes one wonder about the the "what are you listeniing to right now" thread..or, perhaps not! :shrug

[GroobySteven]

I think everybody's looking at this with a wrong headed approach. I can understand the anger of the copyright holders, artists, & whatnot. I also understand the sentiments of those who don't want government control of internet content. I don't have any skin in the game or an ax to grind, but I have yet to see any proof of real damages from file sharing. I see the claims of all the money being "stolen". but is closing this site putting a dime in anybody but the lawyer's pockets, now or in the future? I don't see how. The money we're talking about is a claim of potential. "Could have made this money, maybe, if not for..."

I see this a an income source that's being pissed away by overreacting. These issues were dealt with long ago in the broadcast industry, which is a lot harder to monitor. Is the porn industry locked out of ASCAP or something? Every time you hear a song on the radio, there's "cha-chinging" going on. Mega-uploads was apparently making megabucks off the advertising. Same goes for the other file share systems, tubes, & whatnot. They wouldn't be doing this without some kind of profit. How much did Google pay for You Tube? It just seems counterproductive to be spending all your energy in a futile attempt to shut down the file sharing industry instead of going after a piece of the ad revenue. It won't be as much as having all those people join your sites & pay movie theater prices for a download. But that's not going to happen. You can't even think about touching the kind of volume that these guys have. The Napster plan didn't work. The people who swap files aren't going to pay to do it. They're still going to do what they do though, & somebody with a server is going to help while making a boatload of cash. You guys are attacking your potential partners, & all it is is an expense to you. Time to get pragmatic?

Clearly you didn't bother to read my post.
Their profit comes from advertising but as much from selling premium memberships to download faster (jn much the same way a website sells a membership - the difference being, at a fraction of the price). Their advertising is fairly useless for any legitimate business which is why you usually find porn sites that will bang your cards, pill sites (also which will rip you off etc.)
SOME of the people who swap files won't pay for content - but many will.

As I've said, we've changed our business model. Instead of just closing down avenues of piracy, we'll take legal action against those that abuse our content. In an ideal world, I just want to be a content provider and be paid for it - but when people steal from us, and we can make a profit from their theft, then that's the option I have open to keep my our employees paid and our company surviving.

[Quiet Reflections]

hey seanshai when is the us goverment going to shut your websites down? a few of the tgirls on your sites are illegaly in the us...i know cause i personally know two of them
I think the only way he will get in to trouble for that is if someone holds a copyright on their asses.

[GroobySteven]

hey seanshai when is the us goverment going to shut your websites down? a few of the tgirls on your sites are illegaly in the us...i know cause i personally know two of them

Can you get them to teach you English?

[hippifried]

As I've said, we've changed our business model. Instead of just closing down avenues of piracy, we'll take legal action against those that abuse our content.

Yeah, & that gets you what other than more bills to pay? I know your lawyers aren't going to do this on contingency. You have a bottomless pocket? This "business model" is a proven failure. You can't fight the technology. You can't fight the world with an act of Congress. According to Kitty's breaking news of within the last 2 hours, these guys are already back in business. The indictments just mean that these guys can't travel to the US under their current passport. There won't be any extraditions. They'll pay a percentage to avoid all this kind of hassle. Call it a content tax. Their revenue source doesn't matter. You tax the total. How you dole it out is up to y'all.

[GroobySteven]

Yeah, & that gets you what other than more bills to pay? I know your lawyers aren't going to do this on contingency. You have a bottomless pocket? This "business model" is a proven failure. You can't fight the technology. You can't fight the world with an act of Congress. According to Kitty's breaking news of within the last 2 hours, these guys are already back in business. The indictments just mean that these guys can't travel to the US under their current passport. There won't be any extraditions. They'll pay a percentage to avoid all this kind of hassle. Call it a content tax. Their revenue source doesn't matter. You tax the total. How you dole it out is up to y'all.
Actually we've had some done on cotingency already. I think you are missing my point, we've already had this in practice for well over a year. How is it a proven failure when it's working for us and we brought in substantial revenue from it?
Look at Corbin Fisher, they've made a business out of actively suing the RIGHT individuals.

[ilovetgirls36]

no ..can you?

[hippifried]

Whether you make as much as you want or not, a positive cash flow beats the hell out of paying to be vindictive.

[GroobySteven]

no ..can you?

Clearly somebody needs to.

[GroobySteven]

Whether you make as much as you want or not, a positive cash flow beats the hell out of paying to be vindictive.

Exactly and if that postive cash flow can come from people who are damaging your core business, then all the better.

[LibertyHarkness]

good about time one of the big pirate companies fall ..this should set the ball in motion now for the rest to start to tumble hopefully as well.

[Jackal]

I think reform to limit or redirect CR infrigment is a good idea but old media and SOPA are going way too far.

[RallyCola]

good about time one of the big pirate companies fall ..this should set the ball in motion now for the rest to start to tumble hopefully as well.

and like the phoenix in harry potter...from their ashes, another shall rise.

there is no way to end piracy.

i would like to ask steven a question...since he is so candid about his business model. you say that you have seen a decline in revenue and blame piracy. i suspect the correlation is easier to say than prove because there are so many other mitigating circumstances that would hurt your revenue. that said..have you seen a substantial increase in rebills through the efforts of your DMCA team? or is that expense of employing people just another drain on site profits. My point is...if you take in x dollars a year and have 2 guys making $30K a year to check for uploads and DMCA them...unless you have direct accounting proof that your $60k leads to more rebills, i suggest it was a waste of $60k. Yes, you are making a point and standing up against piracy...but me, i'd rather have $60k more`than fight a battle that can't be won.

[GroobySteven]

and like the phoenix in harry potter...from their ashes, another shall rise.

there is no way to end piracy.

i would like to ask steven a question...since he is so candid about his business model. you say that you have seen a decline in revenue and blame piracy. i suspect the correlation is easier to say than prove because there are so many other mitigating circumstances that would hurt your revenue. that said..have you seen a substantial increase in rebills through the efforts of your DMCA team? or is that expense of employing people just another drain on site profits. My point is...if you take in x dollars a year and have 2 guys making $30K a year to check for uploads and DMCA them...unless you have direct accounting proof that your $60k leads to more rebills, i suggest it was a waste of $60k. Yes, you are making a point and standing up against piracy...but me, i'd rather have $60k more`than fight a battle that can't be won.

Yes we have seen a direct correlation between DMCA'ing our content and ensuring we can keep removing as much as possible and our revenue. Our ratios (amount of people accessing the front door vs joining) have improved and currently I believe we're converting at double one of our bigger competitors whose content can be easily located for free.
This works for us because our content is easily recognisable and some of the sites unique style content, so they people cannot find similar content for free.

[lisaparadise]

good about time one of the big pirate companies fall ..this should set the ball in motion now for the rest to start to tumble hopefully as well.i dont think so, whats next letting the governnment control our internet use by telling us what we can do over the net?

[LibertyHarkness]

well i think its good i hate pirate sites i see so much of my content on these wankers sites its disheartening and its a battle to get it taken down ... i spend alot of money shooting my own content only to have a chunk of earnings raped away from cunts that run these sites So yeah fuck them hope they get fined an insane amount of money, get banged up but unlikely they will ...

But if it makes it harder for people to run this type of business model of ripping sites, hosting ripped content then i am all good for that ..as it all helps ..

[GroobySteven]

i dont think so, whats next letting the governnment control our internet use by telling us what we can do over the net?

You cannot commit a crime over the internet. You are already being told what you can do on the net?

[lisaparadise]

you cannot commit a crime over the internet. You are already being told what you can do on the net?trust me i see where your coming from on this but the bill trying to be passed in congress is wrong.i have no problems with going after the owners of the sites but not the people who view it.

[Jericho]

ok...whoosh :shrug

[GroobySteven]

trust me i see where your coming from on this but the bill trying to be passed in congress is wrong.i have no problems with going after the owners of the sites but not the people who view it.

Two different things Lisa. The SOPA Bill which was never designed to pass, is completely different to this action.

[SammiValentine]

I think reform to limit or redirect CR infrigment is a good idea but old media and SOPA are going way too far.

It is an old tactic, you come with your "worst" you get EVERYONES attention , "omgz my life is over " and then everyone sits down ammendments are made, people are happy. (or happier:)

If all the major powers that be sit down, and work out a system - both piracy can be fought and then "peoples rights" will be "saved". (lets face it SOPA was never made to pass.......)

Its a bit cliche but you could say the whole world is now watching, Piracy is on everyone's lips, some people are even beginning to understand the basis of how it all works and realise what they have been doing rather naively or innocently and thought was the normal, was actually....wrong and they have been paying the baddies , not the goodies ;-) - I would call it a success already.

Lets hope common sense prevails- whatever happens it is quite fascinating.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh wow....

Steven do you think if all the tube sites etc get shut down sales will go up or do you think people will revolt from buying anything?

[Faldur]

I think Mega's case is going to hinge on they're screening process. A company earning $175 million will not be able to come before a judge and plea "we pulled it down just as soon as they pointed it out to us." Your one of the largest user posted media sites earning that kind of money, you had better have a sizable staff to show you take piracy seriously.

[LibertyHarkness]

of course sales would go up kelly if there was no other way to view adult content other than websites, dvds and magazines that all require money.. people wouldnt revolt enough for it to be a problem ... they would have to buy it to watch it .

Booze, Fags, Petrol all go up and people still buy it..they my strike protest at the price and cause it dip abit, but its goes back up and people will pay .. supply and demand.

the human need for sexual release is to great .

But there will never be a time of zero piracy so its a possibilty that will never manifest itself.

[SammiValentine]

Oh wow....

Steven do you think if all the tube sites etc get shut down sales will go up or do you think people will revolt from buying anything?


I am not steven but personally I think if piracy is hit then there will be scope for a lot of changes in the porn business.

The cost, the type of sales e.g subscriptions, vod/ppv , and of course the affiliate business model - lots can change. at the moment it is a difficult environment to try to change things.

For example, if people cannont get stuff for free so easy, but could buy individual scenes for £2 or something - lets say the porn equivalent to a song off itunes....... shrug.

Things would change though, I am sure..:)

[MrsKellyPierce]

Good answers ladies

[SammiValentine]

I think Mega's case is going to hinge on they're screening process. A company earning $175 million will not be able to come before a judge and plea "we pulled it down just as soon as they pointed it out to us." Your one of the largest user posted media sites earning that kind of money, you had better have a sizable staff to show you take piracy seriously.

Yup megavideo are a bit screwed as per the incitement -they paid people for uploads / or people earn money for amount of times their uploads are downloaded etc. This will be interperated as encouraging the general public.

If money is exchanging hands then you cant say "we didn't notice, we dealt with it a week later" There should be a system in place that the up loader has to go through before uploading, to determine ownership. They are fucked, and they know it - I would not be surprised if similar websites in the western world close themselves before they get a knock on the door.

[GroobySteven]

Oh wow....

Steven do you think if all the tube sites etc get shut down sales will go up or do you think people will revolt from buying anything?


Both of the above.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Damn Megaupload made 175 million??????????????????????????????????

That's nuts! And people don't see how this isn't stealing?

[RallyCola]

the tube sites are a catch 22 aren't they. its free advertising because some uploads are legitimate teasers trying to drive traffic to the producer's site.

i'm not defending piracy at all...its theft, plain and simple....BUT...i am quite tired of all the whining. NO ONE IS LOSING MONEY. You are just didn't make as much as you could have if everyone that has a copy of your product paid for it. If you lost money, you'd have to close up shop and stop making your product. Just rephrase your argument because saying you are losing money is not exactly accurate.

if someone goes into Home Depot and walks out with a $10 box of nails, that is a loss for Home Depot because they are out the cash they spent to buy it from the nail manufacturer, which let's say is 50% of retail...so they LOST a $5 wholesale investment they made in it. If the CEO of Home Depot started crying about losing $10, I'd call bullshit too because lost POTENTIAL profits are not the same as property loss.

Its nit picky...and i am sure most people don't care about the distinction...but I just stand by my original argument that most downloaders won't pay no matter what it costs so though they have stolen from you, you didn't lose cash....you just didn't make as much as you should have.

That said...i would close by saying this...I have a feeling that looking at converting percentages this year over last is not the best way to judge growth because the economy is slowly recovering and people might be more apt to spend money on porn. If I were a site owner, I'd look at retention/rebills because that tells me if I am keeping my customers or if they are off to another site.

The entire business model of a porn site is ultimately flawed in that respect because...if you open a site with 30 vids for $30/month, people may pay you and stay for 10 more sets the next month for another $30. So their initial investment of $1 per vid has become $1.50 per vid after the second month and is ever increasing to the benefit of the site, not the consumer. That's actually a great business model for the site....BUT...if most consumers actually figured out that it was cheaper to quit and rejoin a few months later when the site has amassed more material, rinse and repeat, its a doomed business model for the site. The only reason that sites continue to have rebills is because the only thing more immense in a man's life than the need to fap is usually his stupidity.

[MrsKellyPierce]

the tube sites are a catch 22 aren't they. its free advertising because some uploads are legitimate teasers trying to drive traffic to the producer's site.

i'm not defending piracy at all...its theft, plain and simple....BUT...i am quite tired of all the whining. NO ONE IS LOSING MONEY. You are just didn't make as much as you could have if everyone that has a copy of your product paid for it. If you lost money, you'd have to close up shop and stop making your product. Just rephrase your argument because saying you are losing money is not exactly accurate.

if someone goes into Home Depot and walks out with a $10 box of nails, that is a loss for Home Depot because they are out the cash they spent to buy it from the nail manufacturer, which let's say is 50% of retail...so they LOST a $5 wholesale investment they made in it. If the CEO of Home Depot started crying about losing $10, I'd call bullshit too because lost POTENTIAL profits are not the same as property loss.

Its nit picky...and i am sure most people don't care about the distinction...but I just stand by my original argument that most downloaders won't pay no matter what it costs so though they have stolen from you, you didn't lose cash....you just didn't make as much as you should have.

That said...i would close by saying this...I have a feeling that looking at converting percentages this year over last is not the best way to judge growth because the economy is slowly recovering and people might be more apt to spend money on porn. If I were a site owner, I'd look at retention/rebills because that tells me if I am keeping my customers or if they are off to another site.

The entire business model of a porn site is ultimately flawed in that respect because...if you open a site with 30 vids for $30/month, people may pay you and stay for 10 more sets the next month for another $30. So their initial investment of $1 per vid has become $1.50 per vid after the second month and is ever increasing to the benefit of the site, not the consumer. That's actually a great business model for the site....BUT...if most consumers actually figured out that it was cheaper to quit and rejoin a few months later when the site has amassed more material, rinse and repeat, its a doomed business model for the site. The only reason that sites continue to have rebills is because the only thing more immense in a man's life than the need to fap is usually his stupidity.
A lot of the men I know watch tube sites...they go from 30 second clip to 30 second clip to jack off...

I personally think the porn industry fucked it self by giving out all these free preview clips

[RallyCola]

For example, if people cannont get stuff for free so easy, but could buy individual scenes for £2 or something - lets say the porn equivalent to a song off itunes....... shrug.

i don't know about that. before hosting sites, torrents were all the rage. before torrents, file sharing programs. before that, message boards, 0 day warez sites. before that usenet and AOL. before that, bootleg vhs tapes.

as long as the technology is around that allows for piracy, there will always be a way. Case in point...last night on my way from work, a dude was selling copies of the new Underworld movie and Haywire on the E train. They both open TONIGHT and he already had discs burned. Yeah, they popped up online days ago, but for pirates to already have discs burned and distributed to the haitians for sale...that's just ridiculous.

[SammiValentine]

if someone goes into Home Depot and walks out with a $10 box of nails, that is a loss for Home Depot because they are out the cash they spent to buy it from the nail manufacturer, which let's say is 50% of retail...so they LOST a $5 wholesale investment they made in it. If the CEO of Home Depot started crying about losing $10, I'd call bullshit too because lost POTENTIAL profits are not the same as property loss.



Yes. but lets say the person who took the nails, then sells those on for a profit.... Therefore the same nails, that are stolen have been sold. It is then a loss of both material cost and profit for Home Depot.

[RallyCola]

A lot of the men I know watch tube sites...they go from 30 second clip to 30 second clip to jack off...

I personally think the porn industry fucked it self by giving out all these free preview clips

yes, i know that its like speed fapping...trying to bust one before the preview clip is up...but if free clips were not out there, then how would you advertise. you have to have some kind of teaser to get the public to come to your site otherwise you'd have to rely on google clicks.

i've done it many times...seen something with a girl that thought was hot and then googled her only to join a site to see more of her. tube sites are effective advertising.

[SammiValentine]

i don't know about that. before hosting sites, torrents were all the rage. before torrents, file sharing programs. before that, message boards, 0 day warez sites. before that usenet and AOL. before that, bootleg vhs tapes.

as long as the technology is around that allows for piracy, there will always be a way. Case in point...last night on my way from work, a dude was selling copies of the new Underworld movie and Haywire on the E train. They both open TONIGHT and he already had discs burned. Yeah, they popped up online days ago, but for pirates to already have discs burned and distributed to the haitians for sale...that's just ridiculous.

Yup re different types of piracy- and it has all been fought, so why give up now? :) Why are people upset that the fight back is on? Piracy will always be around, so will other crimes, of all differing types - it does not mean we just give up, or turn a blind eye.

[MrsKellyPierce]

People keep going on about their freedom....they are only taking down sites that are dedicated to stolen copyrighted material


"I don't want my sites being shut down because some spam bot posted a link."


Quit blindly accepting the fearmongering tactics. The SOPA law CLEARLY states that a site has to be DEDICATED to NOTHING BUT copyright infringments. If your sites are nothing but copyright infringement then yeah you should be against this. However, a spam bot, a random facebook post, a tweet, none of those things will get your site shut down....READ THE BILL.

[RallyCola]

Yup re different types of piracy- and it has all been fought, so why give up now? :) Why are people upset that the fight back is on? Piracy will always be around, so will other crimes, of all differing types - it does not mean we just give up, or turn a blind eye.

i'm not advocating giving up...its just easier now to violate copyright laws so companies (Grooby :), RIAA, MPAA) are just more whiny and aggressive.

I'm just tired of hearing about it (here and every where it is debated). it detracts from other more important economic and political issues.

a year or 2 ago, there was a campaign by the MPAA that had a commercial infront of the trailers for many movies. it had a grip or a set construction worker or a janitor saying that he would be out of a job if people downloaded movies. that's not true. he would be out of a job if people stopped making movies. last time i checked, there was still money to be made making movies so no one has stopped. the same goes for porn. if the honeyhole of money was drying up do to piracy, then you'd find a real job and stop producing porn.

so fight piracy...just stop the whining about how you (companies/producers) are victims. you are...but i don't need to hear it on a near constant basis.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I can't believe people are defending MegaUpload when they made 175 million dollars - off mostly stolen content...

Where in the constitution does it say stealing is freedom?

People are just mad cause they like getting things free

When it costs thousands if not millions to make a movie, a website, etc

When you pirate from a solo model, you are killing her site.

I can tell you my photographer costs 200 dollars for 4 hours and how many shoots do you think I can do in that time?

Not many?

Imagine how much he gets paid, because I plan on launching with 30 scenes...

And if all those get stolen...all the money I put into it is lost....

People have no empathy for others...

Would you go into a store and just take a movie/book off the shelf with out paying?

NO!

So why because it's on the internet does it make it okay?

[RallyCola]

its ALWAYS about empathy (or lack there of)...because while i realize stealing is stealing...if it is in a store on online, do you think anyone really cares if walmart loses money or if you lose money. if walmart raises their prices tomorrow because of inventory shrink, people will bitch but still pay it. if you stopped doing porn (again), people will find someone else to fap to. that's life. most people just don't care about corporate loss (be it large companies or small businesses). to ask us as a society to really CARE about loss like you speak of is to ask us to be something we as a society can never be... empathetic. On an individual level...yeah...on a small group level...probably...at a societal level...its ALWAYS someone else's problem. that's just life.

[lisaparadise]

two different things lisa. The sopa bill which was never designed to pass, is completely different to this action.oh i was only thinking of sopa sorry

[MdR Dave]

I can tell you my photographer costs 200 dollars for 4 hours

Surely he pays you more than that.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Surely he pays you more than that.
Who pays me?

I pay him to shoot my content?

Only way I get paid is if someone buys a membership.

[MrsKellyPierce]

its ALWAYS about empathy (or lack there of)...because while i realize stealing is stealing...if it is in a store on online, do you think anyone really cares if walmart loses money or if you lose money. if walmart raises their prices tomorrow because of inventory shrink, people will bitch but still pay it. if you stopped doing porn (again), people will find someone else to fap to. that's life. most people just don't care about corporate loss (be it large companies or small businesses). to ask us as a society to really CARE about loss like you speak of is to ask us to be something we as a society can never be... empathetic. On an individual level...yeah...on a small group level...probably...at a societal level...its ALWAYS someone else's problem. that's just life.
No people in a store don't care if the store loses money

What they do care about is getting arrested for stealing


So again what makes online any different?

[RallyCola]

No people in a store don't care if the store loses money

What they do care about is getting arrested for stealing


So again what makes online any different?

you missed my point or perhaps I missed yours.

Thieves have no empathy...they don't care who they hurt...they just care if they get caught or not. If that is the point you were making, then i missed it in the other post.


that said...No one cares if OTHER people are stealing...that's my point. If someone steals from walmart...its not going to bother the rest of the buying public all that much because we will pay whatever walmart charges. if someone steals from you/your site, a few fans of yours will charge to your defense, but ultimately, the buying public doesn't care. If you decide that you can't afford to make porn, the buying public will just buy someone else's porn. if tomorrow walmart went out of business, there would be some pissed off buyers, but they will go elsewhere for their crap. its just the nature of things...we bitch but then make due.

you have to realize that alot of people think of theft is victimless until it happens close to home. the same new yorker that wouldn't care if a 7-11 in Delaware got robbed is the same new yorker that doesn't care if Kanye West's CD was leaked online...but have someone drink his 7-up in the fridge at work and that fucker wants to call in the NYPD, FBI, CIA, NSA, NBA, NAACP, FDA, the AVN and various other letters as well.

that's the lack of empathy i am talking about

[lisaparadise]

who pays me?

I pay him to shoot my content?

Only way i get paid is if someone buys a membership.huh?you pay a shooter?man you americans are so backwards

[RallyCola]

huh?you pay a shooter?man you americans are so backwards

c'mon...you know what she means...she hired a guy to shoot her for her solo site. and at that rate, she got a bargain.

[MdR Dave]

huh?you pay a shooter?man you americans are so backwards

LOL! It's a travesty alright (pun intended).

[MrsKellyPierce]

huh?you pay a shooter?man you americans are so backwards

Well yeah for my own solo site Lisa..

Not for multi-girl sites and DVD's

[GroobySteven]

the tube sites are a catch 22 aren't they. its free advertising because some uploads are legitimate teasers trying to drive traffic to the producer's site.

i'm not defending piracy at all...its theft, plain and simple....BUT...i am quite tired of all the whining. NO ONE IS LOSING MONEY. You are just didn't make as much as you could have if everyone that has a copy of your product paid for it. If you lost money, you'd have to close up shop and stop making your product. Just rephrase your argument because saying you are losing money is not exactly accurate.


Absolutely incorrect - go back and re-read what I stated.
When people are presented with this for free, they're going to take it for free when otherwise many could have been paying for it. This is one of the silliest arguments I've seen.

Tube sites that show stolen content convert very poorly, we don't even bother uploading trailers.

Ratios are an excellent way to measure how well a site sells especially in these examples as it shows whether the individual wants to content that is advertised (or if they perhaps have seen it all before). When we look at overall business we look at the full picture, which I'm not really interested in sharing.

[lisaparadise]

Well yeah for my own solo site Lisa..

Not for multi-girl sites and DVD'scant you find a good one to take out on trade?

[GroobySteven]

i don't know about that. before hosting sites, torrents were all the rage. before torrents, file sharing programs. before that, message boards, 0 day warez sites. before that usenet and AOL. before that, bootleg vhs tapes.

as long as the technology is around that allows for piracy, there will always be a way.

Absolutely, there will always be a way around it and these people, we're not that interested in - they've always been there and they will never join. They're usually fans/collectors and technologically savvy.
When a tube or a file locker site makes it a business, promotes and charges for it and makes it easy for anybody (potential customers) to find it, then this is the issue and those are the lost sales.

[GroobySteven]

so fight piracy...just stop the whining about how you (companies/producers) are victims. you are...but i don't need to hear it on a near constant basis.

Then don't read the post and don't engage people on it, if you don't want to hear it - otherwise, you are just whining.
There are not more important economic issues in my business - loss of sales, means loss of revenue/profit which will result in either loss of employees or closure of business. That's the most important economic issue to me - and that's why I'm aggressive about it.

[MrsKellyPierce]

cant you find a good one to take out on trade?
Not my style :) but my husband and I are gonna take photography classes :)

[BellaBellucci]

Megavideo shut down? Oh well, then I guess I'll see y'all on DivXDen instead.

INTERNATIONAL EPIC FAIL.

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Not my style :) but my husband and I are gonna take photography classes :)now your thinkin little woman.

[lisaparadise]

Megavideo shut down? Oh well, then I guess I'll see y'all on DivXDen instead.

INTERNATIONAL EPIC FAIL.

~BB~oh well i didnt even know what megapaud is i thought i was somethin to do with the change of life you know when you reach my age lol,hell i cant even figure out how to connect my hd minicamcorder to the internet.

[timxxx]

Reminiscent of these kind of stories "The biggest marijuana bust EVER & a mortal blow to the drug trade"

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/large_Marijuana-bust-Cleveland.jpg


http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/marijuana_bustsepia_1.jpg



:rolleyes: No,not really

[BellaBellucci]

Reminiscent of these kind of stories "The biggest marijuana bust EVER & a mortal blow to the drug trade"

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/large_Marijuana-bust-Cleveland.jpg


http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/marijuana_bustsepia_1.jpg



:rolleyes: No,not really

OMG, you missed a golden opportunity here. ;)

http://buymarijuanaseeds.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/super_troopers_bust_0.jpg

Run along, meow! :lol:

~BB~

[kittyKaiti]

Team RAMROD

[timxxx]

Damn Megaupload made 175 million

If l were a "criminal" contemplating career options the takedown of Megaupload
would be like getting a second Xmas in January.

[klownybrown]

Claiming that many people who leech off pirated copies would register at a porn site if they couldn't get ahold of illegal copies is just highly speculative. With porn, even more than with "ordinary" content.

It is totally understandable that the girls don't want to see copies of their hard work go for free, but i still question the effective loss in a random illegal copy. I mean, there are many girls with Amazon wishlists, Camshows and whatnot. That stuff gets bought as well, so I don't think the will to pay for stuff is all that bad.

[bart87]

All I have to say is wow i'm a big fan of the Grooby websites but to see that they are supporting piece of shit bills like SOPA and PIPA I will NOT be updating my subscription to any of those sites anytime soon :/

[bart87]

Rep. Lamar Smith has WITHDRAWN SOPA from the House. THIS IS VICTORY!

SOPA is DEAD!

[GroobySteven]

All I have to say is wow i'm a big fan of the Grooby websites but to see that they are supporting piece of shit bills like SOPA and PIPA I will NOT be updating my subscription to any of those sites anytime soon :/

I'd be interested as to where you've read that I supported SOPA? I've never stated I supported SOPA but I would support an anti-piracy bill and I expect we'll have one soon, and I do support action being taken against massive piracy like Megaupload.

SOPA was never designed to be passed. Everyone claiming victory when it fails will be happy at the next bill which is lighter and more of a compromise.

I look forward to your next updated subscription.

[BellaBellucci]

I would support an anti-piracy bill and I expect we'll have one soon.

We already had one pass if you recall. It's called DMCA. :yayo:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

We already had one pass if you recall. It's called DMCA. :yayo:


Bella idiocy again, brilliant.
DMCA was brought in, in different times with a different playing field to PROTECT servers and upload companies from being sued. It's a massively flawed act and ineffective in a fight against piracy. It helps protect the pirates by giving them a so-called "safe harbour" but this can be easily manipulated.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella idiocy again, brilliant.
DMCA was brought in, in different times with a different playing field to PROTECT servers and upload companies from being sued. It's a massively flawed act and ineffective in a fight against piracy. It helps protect the pirates by giving them a so-called "safe harbour" but this can be easily manipulated.

Right. I disagree, therefore I'm an idiot. So if you think DMCA is ineffective, and you're against SOPA, what do you propose to solve this 'problem,' mon capitan?

How about better international cooperation in the enforcement of the laws already on the books? Your real problem isn't DMCA violations in the US, but outright resellers in foreign countries. So sure, punish the victims.

~BB~

[SammiValentine]

DMCA turned out to be more reactive , I expect anything new to be more proactive.

[SammiValentine]

Right. I disagree, therefore I'm an idiot. So if you think DMCA is ineffective, and you're against SOPA, what do you propose to solve this 'problem,' mon capitan?

How about better international cooperation in the enforcement of the laws already on the books? Your real problem isn't DMCA violations in the US, but outright resellers in foreign countries. So sure, punish the victims.

~BB~

How about people have to prove it is theirs to upload and share? Rather than we have to prove it is ours... to have it taken down? Reactive / proactive.

[BellaBellucci]

DMCA turned out to be more reactive , I expect anything new to be more proactive.

Anything more 'proactive' must almost necessarily infringe upon personal liberties and possibly create a two-tiered internet (AKA the original intention of 'Web 2.0'), unless you have an idea that hasn't been floated already?

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

How about people have to prove it is theirs to upload and share? Rather than we have to prove it is ours... to have it taken down? Reactive / proactive.

I like that one.

[BellaBellucci]

How about people have to prove it is theirs to upload and share? Rather than we have to prove it is ours... to have it taken down? Reactive / proactive.

Because that would affect free speech rights here in America. In this country, a publisher is not responsible for all content uploaded to their site because the enormous risk it would pose to said publisher would distract or discourage them from managing protected uses of the site. This is referred to as 'safe harbor' and Steven hates it.

Plus, they can't be responsible for verifying copyrights because there's currently no way to do so. For instance, if I shoot for a DVD and claim that I share the content rights, how can I prove that? It's very easy to falsify rights agreements and model releases and site owners are not private investigators or courts of law.

~BB~

[SammiValentine]

Anything more 'proactive' must almost necessarily infringe upon personal liberties and possibly create a two-tiered internet (AKA the original intention of 'Web 2.0'), unless you have an idea that hasn't been floated already?

~BB~

Must is a really over used word, a bit like can't or hate. :) There is a happy middle ground, it will be found. Its hardly draconian to ask someone to prove they own something before sharing it. Digital fingerprinting, for example, fuck knows am not a techy, i just like shooting noobs in the head in FPS games online :D. There are lots of possibles I guess, I think one thing SOPA has done is actually worried some major players on both sides of the fence and even people sat on the err fence and they may just get together and work together on this for the good of everyone... :)

[BellaBellucci]

I think one thing SOPA has done is actually worried some major players on both sides of the fence and even people sat on the err fence and they may just get together and work together on this for the good of everyone... :)

Yeah, that's a silver lining I guess. :yingyang:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Because that would affect free speech rights here in America. In this country, a publisher is not responsible for all content uploaded to their site because the enormous risk it would pose to said publisher would distract or discourage them from managing protected uses of the site. This is referred to as 'safe harbor' and Steven hates it.

Plus, they can't be responsible for verifying copyrights because there's currently no way to do so. For instance, if I shoot for a DVD and claim that I share the content rights, how can I prove that? It's very easy to falsify rights agreements and model releases and site owners are not private investigators or courts of law.

~BB~

If they are prepared to profit from it, then they should be prepared to check the paperwork. This isn't a freedom of speech argument, nobody is stopping people publishing words but when it's clearly a say ... porn video then those companies need to have people checking it and verifying it. Do they allow child porn, beastiality, etc. to be uploaded - or is that included in your version of freedom of speech?

I hate that the DMCA law can be manipulated. When the uploader and the people making profit can hide behind DMCA - and when they are quite often in business together, then it's a profit.
The burden should be on proving you are the owner - not wholesale theft and upload.

Anyway, we digress to Bella speak ie; time spend on worthless arguments.

[BellaBellucci]

If they are prepared to profit from it, then they should be prepared to check the paperwork.

And if they're not?


This isn't a freedom of speech argument, nobody is stopping people publishing words but when it's clearly a say ... porn video then those companies need to have people checking it and verifying it. Do they allow child porn, beastiality, etc. to be uploaded - or is that included in your version of freedom of speech?

No, of course it's not, but not only is that far more rare, the uploader is inevitably responsible unless one can prove that the site owner had direct knowledge of it and failed to act.


I hate that the DMCA law can be manipulated. When the uploader and the people making profit can hide behind DMCA - and when they are quite often in business together, then it's a profit.
The burden should be on proving you are the owner - not wholesale theft and upload.

Right, thereby making it harder to independent content producers. Way to exploit your dominance there, big boy. :lol:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Right, thereby making it harder to independent content producers. Way to exploit your dominance there, big boy. :lol:

~BB~

Huh?
I'm an independent content producer. What the fuck are you talking about now, sloppy?

[BellaBellucci]

Huh?
I'm an independent content producer. What the fuck are you talking about now, sloppy?

You really believe that? :?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50291_91330201858_5515344_n.jpg

~BB~

[joannajet]

Hi,

I am with both Senchai and Sammi on this one. When I submit content to legitimate sites such as Hot Movies, I have to provide 2257 documentations and model releases if they are required.

Whether you are a major producer (but still independent) such as Grooby or a small one such as myself, the effect is still the same as long as the onus is on the producer to remove content (a full-time job) rather than the distributor confirming the legality of their material.

I used to have a staff and used to release Shemale Jet-Set. As long as the current loopholes exist with regard to piracy, there will be less jobs and less quality content.

With regards,

Joanna
xxx

[BellaBellucci]

Whether you are a major producer (but still independent) such as Grooby or a small one such as myself, the effect is still the same as long as the onus is on the producer to remove content (a full-time job) rather than the distributor confirming the legality of their material.

For purposes of this argument, a 'major producer' is not independent because:

a) such entity is a corporation, not a person.
b) such entity has the resources to control content that a true indie does not, giving major corporate producers an unfair advantage over their competition

What Sammi is proposing, aside from being anti-First Amendment, is also anti-net neutrality.

~BB~

[joannajet]

Hello Bella,


For purposes of this argument, a 'major producer' is not independent because:

a) such entity is a corporation, not a person.
b) such entity has the resources to control content that a true indie does not, giving major corporate producers an unfair advantage over their competition

~BB~

a) I am a corporation too.
b) I control my content by having direct control over all of my supply chain.

Does this mean that I am not an independent producer?

Joanna
xxx

[BellaBellucci]

Hello Bella,



a) I am a corporation too.
b) I control my content by having direct control over all of my supply chain.

Does this mean that I am not an independent producer?

Joanna
xxx

I believe I said 'for purposes of this argument.' Fine. Allow me to redefine: substitute 'smaller and/or newer competition' for 'independent.' This is about the relative size and means of the respective parties, not just their corporate structure.

~BB~

[lifeisfiction]

I just curious, how do you producers feel about companies such as manwin who promotes tubesites which is much more easier for people to access than downloading sites. With a larger company promoting tube sites doesn't that undermine smaller production companies?

[SammiValentine]

For purposes of this argument, a 'major producer' is not independent because:

a) such entity is a corporation, not a person.
b) such entity has the resources to control content that a true indie does not, giving major corporate producers an unfair advantage over their competition

What Sammi is proposing, aside from being anti-First Amendment, is also anti-net neutrality.

~BB~

so .xxx is also going to be anti first amendment and anti net neutrality? :)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I just curious, how do you producers feel about companies such as manwin who promotes tubesites which is much more easier for people to access than downloading sites. With a larger company promoting tube sites doesn't that undermine smaller production companies?
Manwin is buying everyone out as well

They just bought DP and own Twistys

But supposedly DP compares it to Pixar/Disney

[GroobySteven]

I just curious, how do you producers feel about companies such as manwin who promotes tubesites which is much more easier for people to access than downloading sites. With a larger company promoting tube sites doesn't that undermine smaller production companies?

Yes. They then buy up companies which have been hurt by this.

[GroobySteven]

I believe I said 'for purposes of this argument.' Fine. Allow me to redefine: substitute 'smaller and/or newer competition' for 'independent.' This is about the relative size and means of the respective parties, not just their corporate structure.

~BB~

So basically, just anything you want it to mean for the purposes to support your own argument.
Yep, your usual modus operandi.

[BellaBellucci]

So basically, just anything you want it to mean for the purposes to support your own argument.
Yep, your usual modus operandi.

Lie. Deny. Obfuscate. Good for you.

It doesn't matter what you call it, the principle is the same and you know it. Additional burdens are more easily overcome by bigger business. That's a fact. Stuff like this is like candy to someone like you.

But we already know you don't believe in free speech unless it's yours because you even argue against safe harbor provisions.

How open-minded. :rolleyes:

~BB~

[lifeisfiction]

Thanks for your responses. I know there will be anti-piracy bill eventually passed, but it only be designed for large corporations who the government will feel at the end of day have more to lose (taxes, jobs, etc) then other areas. I don't think the adult industry will get that same level of protection. In addition with parody’s inching closer to infringing on brands, I wouldn't be surprise if trademark challenges would arise under a new anti-piracy law. The government has granted companies’ super trademarks (that is the actually legal term) that inherently gives them obscene protection purposefully in order to protect the more vital areas of business. I do think small and independent producers of content (not only the adult industry) on the web have to speak out in order to obtain those protections. Nonetheless, if people copied cassette tapes back in the 80's, put videos of their friends and family singing songs of youtube. Piracy will continue on.

[hippifried]

How about people have to prove it is theirs to upload and share? Rather than we have to prove it is ours... to have it taken down? Reactive / proactive.
If you hold the copyright, it's up to you to protect it. I really don't think you'll be able to licence your content the way microsoft does software. Such attempts usually just piss off the customer base. Almost everything out there being shared was originally uploaded by someone who paid for it.

This is an old argument of whether it's better to control dissemination from production through retail consumption, or to licence out for a smaller cut per unit to gain a larger market. File sharing offers volume that you can't get by selling memberships & PPV. Megaupload made what, $175 million last year? Where's your cut? Oh that's right. The lawyers are getting your share & the rest is just being erased from the ledgers. That sounds like a lot of money, but it's just a piss in the pot compared to the potential sans all the lawsuits & indictments.

There's already a model for everybody to get paid through volume dissemination. ASCAP, BMI, there's another one here in the States, whatever the acronym is for the European equivalent, all collect fees for use from broadcasters & distribute them proportionately to the artists, artisans, creators, & producers of the content. The copyright is protected by making sure that compensation is paid for use of the copyrighted content. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood that that's why copyrights exist in the first place.

[SammiValentine]

If you hold the copyright, it's up to you to protect it. I really don't think you'll be able to licence your content the way microsoft does software. Such attempts usually just piss off the customer base. Almost everything out there being shared was originally uploaded by someone who paid for it.


The vast majority of uploaded files have originated from hackers - not paid for. This has been tested.

[GroobySteven]

The vast majority of uploaded files have originated from hackers - not paid for. This has been tested.

Yeah we follow the files, almost everything comes from hacked passwords or stolen credit cards, the majority of logins are from Russians, on US credit cards.

[Instrumental]

Hmm that's really unfortunate. It will be interesting to see how this goes. There are countless other sites to use though.

[Instrumental]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIeTybKL1pM4&v=IeTybKL1pM4&gl=US

[Stavros]

Its like this: suppose a man joins the queue outside a bookshop selling the new Harry Potter at midnight and gets his £15 copy at 12.30, rushes home where he and two others on three machines photocopy the book, going back to the bookshop at 6am with 200 copies which they sell for £1 -ok, its not the book, its not pretty, its a stack of A4 in a bag, but if all you want to do is read the latest Harry Potter someone is going to buy it at that price-and will do so until the police arrive to arrest them. And, unlike Hippifried's suggestion, its not like the publishers are going to say well,ok, but give us 25p out of every pound and we'll leave it at that....from what I can see, the existing sites will now be targeted, but I don't also doubt that new ones in time will emerge again, until there is a new way of accessing material on the internet -possibly through encryption technology that is unique to a registered member? Not sure.

[GroobySteven]

Have yet to check this out but cut and pasted from a webmaster board:


Mega Upload Network - Taken offline by FBI

Fileserve removed it's affiliate page

VideoBB closed it's affiliate program.

Filepost started suspending accounts with infringing material

Videozer No affiliate/make money page

Uploaded.to not available in U.S. anymore

[postopadmirer]

Its like this: suppose a man joins the queue outside a bookshop selling the new Harry Potter at midnight and gets his £15 copy at 12.30, rushes home where he and two others on three machines photocopy the book, going back to the bookshop at 6am with 200 copies which they sell for £1 -ok, its not the book, its not pretty, its a stack of A4 in a bag, but if all you want to do is read the latest Harry Potter someone is going to buy it at that price-and will do so until the police arrive to arrest them. And, unlike Hippifried's suggestion, its not like the publishers are going to say well,ok, but give us 25p out of every pound and we'll leave it at that....from what I can see, the existing sites will now be targeted, but I don't also doubt that new ones in time will emerge again, until there is a new way of accessing material on the internet -possibly through encryption technology that is unique to a registered member? Not sure.

You had an interesting point but you lost me. The exchange rate between P an L didn't help either.


I've lurked on this thread since the beginning. A few points.
1. There seem to be a lot of people presenting legal arguments whom I'm betting have no law experience.
2. Copyright holders should be protected, and have a means for recourse when that copyright is violated.
3. Upload sites are not just for porn, or illegal file sharing.
4. Freedom of speech should be protected, but freedom to commit crime is not an excuse.
5. I believe the "freedom" is the protection to say something, not freedom from the consequences of what is "said".
5. The easy duplication of this content seems to be a factor.
6. I hate the complications that go with things like Copyright management protected files. I avoid audible for this reason.


Producers will always want the crime to be hard to commit and low cost to them to enforce.


Violators will always want a way to get stuff for free, and often use things like free speach to protect it.


Average citizens should be able to enjoy produced content, at a fair market price and should not be subjected to burdensome means designed to prevents theft.


two examples:
1. In the US who feels the TSA and airplane boarding process is truly making you safer? Reducing the frequency of crimes yes, but safer?
2. Who even notices the anti-theft devices on products in stores?


I like solutions more like number 2 and less like number 1.


I believe the middle ground is that file sharing should not be annonimois that way people still have the right to free speech, but not without conciquences for illegal actions.


Take the Peer to peer and torrent activity. Their hayday was until the producers found a way to find/prove/prosecute the illegal act. Nobody enjoys a take-down notice. Now those sources are drying up. Not many people want to take the risk of being sued. But people are still free to use those methods for legal uses


I'll sit down now.


Thanks for reading this if you got this far.


POA

[Frescadrink]

Sad thing is the people who are using megaupload and stuff.. they wont pay for your content anyway.. i am willing to bet alot of people just use the free file downloading from them anyway.. I think the girls having their shit stolen is way shitty.. thats why i buy stuff from the store at least 1 time a week. As for the free previews and stuff they are a good thing as they have shown me girls i wouldnt have seen before and gotten me to buy their stuff too.. Now as for on line web stuff.. i dont really like the pay sites because alot of them take forever to get new content up for the paying customer.

[hippifried]

Yeah we follow the files, almost everything comes from hacked passwords or stolen credit cards, the majority of logins are from Russians, on US credit cards.
Well there's a good reason for nobody to ever use a credit card on the internet. How much of your business is somebody sending a check in the mail? Is it possible for you to "follow the files" before the stuff gets stolen?

Okay okay, mea culpa. That one line in my last post was inaccurate. Happy?

You're still not addressing the point. The point is that whether they're up & running or shut down through legal means, you're not getting paid by Megaupload or any of the other sites that are making a mint through use your copyrighted content. They don't care where the uploads come from, & there's no incentive for them to care. You & the rest of the production industry are going after them anyway. So they make as much as they can while they can & walk away to start up under another name next week. This is a never ending story that's been going on since the inception of the internet & even before. Got an exit strategy? I'm thinkin' not. Sooner or later, you're going to have to cut a deal. You're not Viacom or Time Warner with an endless supply of cash. The only incentive you have to bargain with is backing off the legal action so the operations can smooth out. As a counter incentive to you, they can "follow the files" to keep the assholes at bay, work with Interpol or whoever to go after the credit card fraud, & get everybody their share of royalties from the ad revenue. I know it's simplistic, but I'm not negotiating the contract, & I'm so computer illiterate that I can't get the photos off my phone & into Facebook. It just seems to me that nobody's looking for an amicable solution, & everybody's spinning their wheels in the animosity mud.

[GroobySteven]

Well there's a good reason for nobody to ever use a credit card on the internet. How much of your business is somebody sending a check in the mail? Is it possible for you to "follow the files" before the stuff gets stolen?

Okay okay, mea culpa. That one line in my last post was inaccurate. Happy?

You're still not addressing the point. The point is that whether they're up & running or shut down through legal means, you're not getting paid by Megaupload or any of the other sites that are making a mint through use your copyrighted content. They don't care where the uploads come from, & there's no incentive for them to care. You & the rest of the production industry are going after them anyway. So they make as much as they can while they can & walk away to start up under another name next week. This is a never ending story that's been going on since the inception of the internet & even before. Got an exit strategy? I'm thinkin' not. Sooner or later, you're going to have to cut a deal. You're not Viacom or Time Warner with an endless supply of cash. The only incentive you have to bargain with is backing off the legal action so the operations can smooth out. As a counter incentive to you, they can "follow the files" to keep the assholes at bay, work with Interpol or whoever to go after the credit card fraud, & get everybody their share of royalties from the ad revenue. I know it's simplistic, but I'm not negotiating the contract, & I'm so computer illiterate that I can't get the photos off my phone & into Facebook. It just seems to me that nobody's looking for an amicable solution, & everybody's spinning their wheels in the animosity mud.

Simplistic and it won't work. The ad revenue isn't what makes them money (as I've previously stated) it's the premium memberships. You can't do business with a thief, there is no margins.

I have a pretty fucking fantastic exit strategy from the whole business, which will leave me pretty well off but we're nowhere near the point where we're ready to engage it.

I think you've missed some of my earlier posts. Through our DMCA strategy we're maintaining customers quite well, we should be doing better but we're in a decent enough place. Our ratios are double most sites and we're the highest lifetime value per member on our main billing company among all their clients. Not all of this is our DMCA strategy but part of it. Our "change of business model" to go after thieves as a profitable venture has also paid off and will continue to do so, as long as we can track down enough persons to take litigation against.
I do understand what you are getting at - but it's unlikely it will ever happen, I suspect most filesharing and illegal tube sites to be closed in the coming years. Bigger business than porn and the governments aren't prepared to lose that amount of revenue or tax revenue.

[BellaBellucci]

Our "change of business model" to go after thieves as a profitable venture has also paid off and will continue to do so, as long as we can track down enough persons to take litigation against.

You know, that hasn't worked out so well in the past:

http://www.thenutgraph.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/WitchHunt-580x432.jpg

~BB~

[Teydyn]

I suspect most filesharing and illegal tube sites to be closed in the coming years.
Instead of "closing" you mean "going to china or russia", dont you?

[kittyKaiti]

Instead of "closing" you mean "going to china or russia", dont you?

That's the funny part you see cuz, MegaUpload was hosted on servers in Canada and the Netherlands and all of MegaUpload's owners and admins live in foreign countries but the FBI still arrested them. The United States owns this planet and can do whatever it wants, where-ever it wants. Our laws here in America have no authority over MegaUpload nor the guys that ran the site, yet have been arrested and charged.

[RallyCola]

That's the funny part you see cuz, MegaUpload was hosted on servers in Canada and the Netherlands and all of MegaUpload's owners and admins live in foreign countries but the FBI still arrested them. The United States owns this planet and can do whatever it wants, where-ever it wants. Our laws here in America have no authority over MegaUpload nor the guys that ran the site, yet have been arrested and charged.

wait till some one in china figures out how to circumvent chinese rules for internet protocols....then all the file hosting will be located there AND we will be powerless to do anything because those damn chinese pretty much own this country.

[BluegrassCat]

wait till some one in china figures out how to circumvent chinese rules for internet protocols....then all the file hosting will be located there and we will be powerless to do anything because those damn chinese pretty much own china .

ftfy

[RallyCola]

um no...china pretty much owns the us. they are the largest owner of us debt and treasuries. they keep the renmimbi low artificially to keep our dollar strong and their wages low so we continue to by crap made there.

if the chinese government didn't regulate the internet as they did for disallowing information, more file lockers would be located there completely independent of US influence.

[BluegrassCat]

Thankfully no, they're not the largest owner of U.S. debt. We are. So you can relax.

[RallyCola]

Thankfully no, they're not the largest owner of U.S. debt. We are. So you can relax.

you are an idiot. i'm not going to debate this because clearly you have no idea what i am talking about. the topic at hand is piracy and the chinese are better at it than anyone.

as i said...when file locker companies figure out how to be based in china...its going to be very VERY difficult to stop pirates then. not impossible...but just significantly harder than it is to target site owners now.

[BluegrassCat]

Nice. Hurl an insult, change the topic and run away. So is China the #1 holder of debt or not? Look it up, nitwit.

[GroobySteven]

Instead of "closing" you mean "going to china or russia", dont you?
Many of them originate in countries like that already (not sure where you get China from) but with any money making outlets closed to them, then I mean, closed.

[GroobySteven]

That's the funny part you see cuz, MegaUpload was hosted on servers in Canada and the Netherlands and all of MegaUpload's owners and admins live in foreign countries but the FBI still arrested them. The United States owns this planet and can do whatever it wants, where-ever it wants. Our laws here in America have no authority over MegaUpload nor the guys that ran the site, yet have been arrested and charged.
I believe any country can put out an arrest warrant on an individual in another country. It's up to the country that citizen is in (or the laws in place) whether they want to follow through on it.

[RallyCola]

Nice. Hurl an insult, change the topic and run away. So is China the #1 holder of debt or not? Look it up, nitwit.

sent u a PM because i really don't feel like debating it in this thread but please know that you are wrong.

[BluegrassCat]

china IS the #1 owner of US sovereign debt. there is 51% of us sovereign debt not owned by the federal or state governments. Of this the PROC and chinese investment/equity firms represent 80% of it. There share alone nearly equals what our federal government owns and any/all economists do not EVER count US ownership of US debt as any tangible item. Since removal from the gold standard, ownership of your own debt is meaningless because there can be no true valuation. it is private/foreign investment in debt that actually is tangible.

I included your pm for your own edification. Just use Google. It's so simple. #1 owner of U.S. debt is...drum roll...the U.S.!

So you got this one wrong. You learned something. Be a man about it.

[RallyCola]

I believe any country can put out an arrest warrant on an individual in another country. It's up to the country that citizen is in (or the laws in place) whether they want to follow through on it.

that is correct...if the warrant is issued and the country has no formal extradition treaty or chooses not to process the warrant...its a useless warrant.

need proof...see Roman Polanski...that lucky fucker

[RallyCola]

I included your pm for your own edification. Just use Google. It's so simple. #1 owner of U.S. debt is...drum roll...the U.S.!

So you got this one wrong. You learned something. Be a man about it.

lol...ok. you just don't understand economics. i'm not going to argue this because you just won't understand.

from the % you are always going to think you are right because about 46% is owned by the Fed and another 3% by US states...so since you think that the 46% the fed owns ACTUALLY matters...go with your opinion.

[BluegrassCat]

Not an opinion. Just a fact. You have your baseless assertion and that's it. Find me an accounting of debt that places 50.1% of it with China. You can't and you know it. No reason to tie your pride to it. Just learn from it and move on.

[RallyCola]

not a pride issue. i said you are correct because the fed owns the largest single percentage at 46% of all debt. you can't take your win and shut up?

[BluegrassCat]

not a pride issue. i said you are correct because the fed owns the largest single percentage at 46% of all debt. you can't take your win and shut up?

Now that you've admitted it, I can. And if your insults were intended to communicate that I "won" that was entirely lost on me.

But you haven't lost, it's not zero-sum, you've learned something and a zombie lie has, for the moment, been put down.

[centipete]

Now that you've admitted it, I can. And if your insults were intended to communicate that I "won" that was entirely lost on me.

But you haven't lost, it's not zero-sum, you've learned something and a zombie lie has, for the moment, been put down.

Don't worry about him, Bluegrass. he's just another sorry internet asshole who thinks he knows everything. Annoyed me on another thread so I'm glad to see him look stupid here. :cheers:

[GroobySteven]

not a pride issue. i said you are correct because the fed owns the largest single percentage at 46% of all debt. you can't take your win and shut up?

Who owns the Fed?

[RallyCola]

why silly tax payers of course.

side question...now that megaupload has been shuttered...how long before they go after individual uploaders...because that's going to be a crap ton of lawsuits...or is that not going to happen?

[The Unit]

Steven this is gonna come back to bite you in the ass, bigtime. I'm shocked you are able to make any money at all. No wonder your sites are dying. You are short sighted and simple mined. So far you've just been a bit lucky.

[BluegrassCat]

Don't worry about him, Bluegrass. he's just another sorry internet asshole who thinks he knows everything. Annoyed me on another thread so I'm glad to see him look stupid here. :cheers:

Happy to clink glasses anytime. Good to know you, Pete. :cheers:

[RallyCola]

Steven this is gonna come back to bite you in the ass, bigtime. I'm shocked you are able to make any money at all. No wonder your sites are dying. You are short sighted and simple mined. So far you've just been a bit lucky.

a response to this...i'd love to hear.

[RallyCola]

Don't worry about him, Bluegrass. he's just another sorry internet asshole who thinks he knows everything. Annoyed me on another thread so I'm glad to see him look stupid here. :cheers:

huh? i annoyed someone? really...me?

i'm not done looking stupid yet. just wait there's more.

by the way...i don't mean to insult anyone here...if i did, well, tickle your own asshole for me because i'm not there to do it.

as for winning...its really the chinese who are winning.

[BluegrassCat]

Yea Steven, all those websites, models, shoots, customers: all total luck. Flip a coin and anyone could have it. Funny no one else does.

[RallyCola]

huh? i annoyed someone? really...me?

i'm not done looking stupid yet. just wait there's more.

by the way...i don't mean to insult anyone here...if i did, well, tickle your own asshole for me because i'm not there to do it.

as for winning...its really the chinese who are winning.

oh and charlie sheen.

and yes i did quote myself

[RallyCola]

oh and charlie sheen.

and yes i did quote myself

and the people that shut down megaupload

and yes...i did quote myself again. damn i'm good

[GroobySteven]

why silly tax payers of course.

side question...now that megaupload has been shuttered...how long before they go after individual uploaders...because that's going to be a crap ton of lawsuits...or is that not going to happen?
Federal Government or Federal Reserve?
The Reserve is a private stockholded business.

[GroobySteven]

Steven this is gonna come back to bite you in the ass, bigtime. I'm shocked you are able to make any money at all. No wonder your sites are dying. You are short sighted and simple mined. So far you've just been a bit lucky.
Yep I've just been a bit lucky, every day I wake up and think the same.

I'm not sure where you get the bit about sites dying though, we're performing very nicely.

Bitter, much?

[SammiValentine]

lol at the china shout. Does china not have the largest amount of people in prison for "cyber crimes," . journalists and dissidents , hackers etc etc... They have the biggest "cyber police force " in the world. I really can't see file sharing companies heading there anytime this lifetime... the great firewall of china...?:)

Russia etc- well they already do that. If they all end up in Russia it will get very political right :) Maybe S.America, Mexico... shrug..:) but China.. lolz.

[Stavros]

I agree... hence all the spamming by Steven on here.

PAYSITES ARE DEAD (thank fuck)

LONG LIVE THE 1000,s of TUBE SITES

Only a FOOL would pay for porn these days

People do all sorts of things that you do not, it doesn't mean they are fools. The Jasmin site offers cam shows, some at $1.99 a minute, some $2.49 -do you think this is just for fools? Would you pay $90 for a 45 minute show with someone you fancy, is the person who does a fool? One girl told me she had a client who took her live for 4 hours @$1.99 which is close on $500, he had a fetish and it needed satisfaction -was he a fool? She couldn't have been a fool to sit in a small room in Manila to make whatever proportion of the $500 she got, in addition to the other payments. A lot of these fools are men who for one reason or another cannot be open about their interests; seanchai had what business calls Early Mover Advantage by getting into the web business before most others, in what is I guess, a minority interest. You can criticise the business model, the models pay and conditions, that's a different subject, but for people who already had an interest in transexuals the pay sites were hugely important, they also gave other people work, and also introduced transexuals to people who had not thought much about them before.

You might want to ask why anyone in a modern city would sit in a restaurant and pay $5 for bottled water when its free from the tap, and someone did once market cans of fresh air- and some people were 'foolish' enough to buy them.

[SammiValentine]

You might want to ask why anyone in a modern city would sit in a restaurant and pay $5 for bottled water when its free from the tap, and someone did once market cans of fresh air- and some people were 'foolish' enough to buy them.

hehe nice ;-)

[postopadmirer]

Yep I've just been a bit lucky, every day I wake up and think the same.

I'm not sure where you get the bit about sites dying though, we're performing very nicely.

Bitter, much?

I would like to say I don't think you are short sighted at all.
We might not see eye to eye, but I've been very impressed by the logic in your positions. It is clear why you have a successful business.

[BellaBellucci]

Gentlemen, the word you're missing in relation to China is 'foreign,' as in 'largest foreign creditor.'

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Composition_of_U.S._Long-Term_Treasury_Debt_2005-2010.PNG/800px-Composition_of_U.S._Long-Term_Treasury_Debt_2005-2010.PNG

It's amazing how the lack of one little word turned this thread into an off-topic cluster fuck.

~BB~

[Teydyn]

PAYSITES ARE DEAD (thank fuck)

LONG LIVE THE 1000,s of TUBE SITES

Only a FOOL would pay for porn these days
Quite stupid and shortsighted point of view.

What NEW content will the tube sites show when no NEW porn is being produced?

[the_corner]

What NEW content will the tube sites show when no NEW porn is being produced?

There will always be new content.

People called the demise of the film industry with:

Television (who'll go to the theater when you have it a home?)
Then with VCRs (piracy!)
Then with DVDs (that allowed you to see a pristine copy... better than VHS... of a film without going to the theater)....

And the list goes on.... for home theaters, netflix, itunes (who wants to buy a CD for 14.99 when you can buy the only good song for 99 cents?).

I don't see any less content being created as a result of the ever changing market, simply put, you adapt, or you die.... but when someone dies, another new kid comes up to take advantage of the new market conditions.

How many kids out there are making the "single track" (5 guys and a guitar?) that goes into iTunes, and making bank?... or the single app store game that makes bank? (angry birds?).

Even though I talk about the entertainment industry in general, I bet the same applies to porn.

Simply put, there will always be content.

[GroobySteven]

Simply put, there will always be content.

There will be in some format or other but we're less content in 2010/11/12 than 5 yrs ago. It's actually thinned the herd somewhat which is working for those still around.

[flabbybody]

Quite stupid and shortsighted point of view.

What NEW content will the tube sites show when no NEW porn is being produced?


he's no longer participating in the discussion

[iago_delgado]

Best HA thread in ages.

[Instrumental]

One thing I don't understand about porn sites is their archaic payment methods. Why do I have to subscribe monthly for content? That's as absurd as a record label or movie studio saying you have to subscribe to their organizations to buy an album or film. It's not a customer friendly model at all.

[GroobySteven]

One thing I don't understand about porn sites is their archaic payment methods. Why do I have to subscribe monthly for content? That's as absurd as a record label or movie studio saying you have to subscribe to their organizations to buy an album or film. It's not a customer friendly model at all.

You buy magazine subscriptions, cable TV, utilities, etc. in the same way. It's became the norm so simply cancel the membership after you buy it if you don't want to be recharged.
We have some alternative methods at http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html and the ticket system we have is unlike anything else available, we're currently working on automating it further. http://www.grooby.com/tickets/

[RallyCola]

One thing I don't understand about porn sites is their archaic payment methods. Why do I have to subscribe monthly for content? That's as absurd as a record label or movie studio saying you have to subscribe to their organizations to buy an album or film. It's not a customer friendly model at all.

what is the alternative? everything in an on-demand/per scene format? if that were the case, i assure you the amount of girls featured would decrease.

lets keep picking on yum for a minute because steven at least engages us unlike other site owners.

if yum puts up 7 scenes a week...i would be willing to bet that 2 of the girls get ridiculous views, 3 get some looks and i'd bet some flop. So, if instead of a monthly fee, you paid $3 a scene for what you wanted, some scenes would sit dormant and then steven would best serve his wallet by reshooting only the girls that get him paid. there would be little incentive for him to find new girls and risk the bottom line.

[GroobySteven]

if yum puts up 7 scenes a week...i would be willing to bet that 2 of the girls get ridiculous views, 3 get some looks and i'd bet some flop. So, if instead of a monthly fee, you paid $3 a scene for what you wanted, some scenes would sit dormant and then steven would best serve his wallet by reshooting only the girls that get him paid. there would be little incentive for him to find new girls and risk the bottom line.

You'd be surprised at how few totally flop but yes some do and it's not always the ones which I'd expect, just the same as the ones who are huge hits aren't always the ones I'd expect. You are correct, if we were on a per scene basis we'd probably take a lot less risk with some models and maybe miss on finding some great talent.

[Instrumental]

You buy magazine subscriptions, cable TV, utilities, etc. in the same way. It's became the norm so simply cancel the membership after you buy it if you don't want to be recharged.
We have some alternative methods at http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html and the ticket system we have is unlike anything else available, we're currently working on automating it further. http://www.grooby.com/tickets/

Of those examples though, only cable is analogous, and I think that isn't a customer friendly model either. It'd be preferable to pay only for the channels you want. It's not like when I make a magazine or utility payment, I'm paying for five when I only want one of them.

And yes, ideally payments would be able to go per scene, just like movies, music, ebooks and all other media in the 21st century. Certain models wouldn't make it for the same reasons any other artist wouldn't make it. Oh well.

[GroobySteven]

And yes, ideally payments would be able to go per scene, just like movies, music, ebooks and all other media in the 21st century. Certain models wouldn't make it for the same reasons any other artist wouldn't make it. Oh well.

A perfect example of why lots of really quality musicians, film makers and artists who could be putting a lot of creativity and new content into the public eye or ear, don't - because the record companies or studios don't expect to make them their return on investment.
Without having a breakthrough area, then we'd just look at the same 15-25 models.
As it is, I believe the membership on Shemale Yum prefer the weekly selection box of goodies. Not all might be their favourite but they get to see a wide spread amount and the one that really piques them, is what they are looking for.

[Instrumental]

Thing is, artists who don't make it with major record labels can still get their art put out there through independent ventures. It's I don't know how many times easier with the internet too. Most of my favorite artists have done this, it is just a matter of dedication. People who love the art are going to do it regardless.

[NYBURBS]

I think most people would rather pay a fair price for material then steal it, but this requires a better means of distribution. This isn't to say that having a subscription only site makes it OK for people to steal your copyrighted material, but the reality is that people tend to move toward convenient and centralized distribution methods that allow them to pick what they want, when they want it. Itunes, Netflix, and VOD (for porn) are all things I use because they're convenient and fairly priced imo.

[RallyCola]

Of those examples though, only cable is analogous, and I think that isn't a customer friendly model either. It'd be preferable to pay only for the channels you want. It's not like when I make a magazine or utility payment, I'm paying for five when I only want one of them.

And yes, ideally payments would be able to go per scene, just like movies, music, ebooks and all other media in the 21st century. Certain models wouldn't make it for the same reasons any other artist wouldn't make it. Oh well.

the problem is that you can make the argument for any membership based service. if you have a regular cell phone, you are paying for minutes and texts you never use. if you pay for a gym membership and the gym offers a pool and sauna but you never use it, are you going to say you want to pay on a per machine basis. 2 nights ago, i went to see the new underworld movie only to see kate beckinsale in tight clothes. so should i not have paid $16 for a ticket and only paid per minute for the scenes I wanted to see? where does it stop??? why not tell the federal government that you never used the navy or never drove on an interstate that runs through oregon so you are just going to pay for the governmental services that you want.

I think the problem is that you are looking at a membership as something more than it is. If you buy a DVD, a pair of shoes or a meal at a restaurant, you are buying 1 product for a set price. The same goes for a monthly pass to view porn on a website. You use or consumption of that product will vary. You will shit out the meal in 24-36 hrs. You will watch the dvd until bored and maybe wear the same shoes for 18 months but the point is, you have paid a certain price for a product. If you look at a monthly pass to view and download porn as a product that costs $30, its exactly the same as going to a restaurant or buying a pair of socks. Its not like a cable contract, cell phone contract or a gym membership where you have signed up and are legally bound. For $30 you get to download and use all the material they are selling. If you want NEW material, you have to pay for it. If you don't want new material...cancel and enjoy the stuff you downloaded.

I am NOT an advocate for the current rebill system. I am an advocate of joining, downloading what you want, and canceling within the first 30 days...to repeat later when the site has built more stuff I want to see. If you can't see that it is a far better option that continually paying for stuff every month, then its your inability to understand how to maximize your porn dollar...don't blame the site owners.

[JenniferParisHusband]

Upload.to and filesonic are both down, at least to Americans, looks like hotfile is going to be making a move soon too.

[Instrumental]

Again, those examples are not analogous to this discussion. Federal funds and taxes for national use and media for individual use are not comparable. Nor would it be feasible to track what roads people use. Facilities like gyms are not designed to keep people from using specific areas and it simply wouldn't be practical to not only monitor everyone, but know what their access status is. There are a number of cell phone services that give the customer the option of paying on a per text/minute basis. And since people can't predict how much they will use, often having a plan that goes over is the best option. And paying for individual clips of a single work is again different than paying for the single work itself. It is also not practical given the how specific that payment plan would be. It "ends" at paying for individual media, just like it does for music, movies, books, shows. Which is why I'm confused as to why you're making those far reaching examples that have nothing to do with media. There's a reason individual media purchase is the most common form of distribution in all other media and that is because that is what gives customers the most control over what they spend and intake. At the very least it should be an option. To argue otherwise is fairly absurd. And there is no inability to "maximize my porn dollar" I simply don't look at enough porn for a subscription to be worth it. Especially when most of what I'd like to watch is spread over a number of sites. Your plan of purchasing and tossing a subscription gets really expensive really quick taking that into account.

[GroobySteven]

I simply don't look at enough porn for a subscription to be worth it. Especially when most of what I'd like to watch is spread over a number of sites. Your plan of purchasing and tossing a subscription gets really expensive really quick taking that into account.

Many sites used to charge on a price per minute access, the monthly memberships counteracted that as people were on different download speeds. There had been talk of two tiered systems for higher/lower resolution downloads (ie; file sizes) but bandwidth is reasonably in-expensive right now.
I do think an all-encompassing "itunes" model would be good but there are similar type options like that out now, some of which are utilized more than others.
For our business model, the member/one month based subscription model works. It allows us to budget in advance, allows us to test more models than we could otherwise do. Having a one encompassing price in which our whole back catalogue is available as well as updates within that month, seems to go down well. I think $30-35 is excellent value for money for the sites and even if you download 10-20 of your favourite scenes to keep for future viewing then you are getting a good return for what you paid. The fact you can do keep far more than that - or get a months access to 1000's of files, means it's every better value.

[Ryz]

Other filesharing sites are shiting themselves now. And just shuting down their websites completely

[GroobySteven]

These are some answers to some of ill-informed and reactionary posts that I've seen here by Marc Randazza from the Randazza Legal Group. Marc is one of our lawyers and also a vehement supporter of Free Speech.
These were taken from the Xbiz industry forum:


"I used to love this restaurant. Everyone knew that it was a front for organized crime and they used the place to launder money for organized crime. Everyone knew they ran guns to the IRA out of the back of the place. Nevertheless, they made the best fuckin steak tips ever. When the feds raided it and shut it down, I was sure upset that my legitimate use -- coming there for steak tips -- was "infringed upon" by the government shutting it down. Despite the fact that they actually did serve good food, they were a criminal operation and that was that.

I respect your position, but it requires some correction.

1. There was due process. The investigation has been going on for more than 2 years, and they were well aware of it. They could have chosen to have a lawful business model at any time. they doubled down and they got fucked. Tough shit for them.

2. The test is not whether it was, or was not, 100% for piracy. The question is whether it has "substantial noninfringing uses." It did not. It had "theoretical" or "incidental" noninfringing uses. But, when 98% of its revenue and 99% of its traffic was for piracy, the fact that a few thousand people world wide used it for legitimate purposes does not make it a legitimate service.

3. The government did not "censor" your speech. Your content can be uploaded to any server, any service, anywhere. You used MegauUpload knowing that it was a virtually completely illegal service, or you used it with willful blindness to that possibility. There's a reason that I use DropBox and even Rapidshare on occasion -- because I know that DB and even RS (since it cleaned up its act) are not illegal services, and I know that they'll likely be there tomorrow. When you use a service like MU, which everyone knew was run by a convicted criminal, then you take the risk that it will go down.

You won't find a more rabid defender of free speech than this guy. But, there are no free speech issues in play here. When you run a massive criminal enterprise, you might get shut down. If you're an innocent customer of a criminal enterprise, you're going to be collateral damage. But, if all any criminal had to do is have one or two legitimate customers in order to evade prosecution or to evade being shut down, my job as an attorney would be super easy. It isn't.

May MegaUpload stay down, and may its principals find themselves ass-raped in prison. They made $175 millon stealing from people in this industry, they knew it, they enjoyed it, and now they pay for it."


and:

"If the government shut down the press because they didn't like the content of the speech being printed there -- that's one thing. If the printing press was a press in Hong Kong that stamped out 100,000 infringing DVDs a day, and you decided to use them as your legitimate DVD supplier (because the cost was nice and low, since it was subsidized by the criminals stealing other people's work), then you have no right to complain when you show up for your next run of legitimate DVDs and you find that the DVD press is gone."

Those among you who want to keep supporting Kim Dotcom's enterprise and his "right to stay in business" are doing nothing more than to support a criminal. The repercussions in New Zealand as to how he was even allowed into their country have already begun.

By the way, the reason Megaupload, Filesonic and Oron are breaking the DMCA law, is that when they received notification they didn't delete the files, just the links to the files, allowing the pirates to create brand new links quickly. This is not DMCA complaint and goes to show, they knew what they were doing.
Fuck them.

[tommy001]

Maybe the tube sites could be next?

[SammiValentine]

By the way, the reason Megaupload, Filesonic and Oron are breaking the DMCA law, is that when they received notification they didn't delete the files, just the links to the files, allowing the pirates to create brand new links quickly. This is not DMCA complaint and goes to show, they knew what they were doing.
Fuck them.

Yup and the industry has the proof :-)

[drmindbender03]

Well, I wonder why The Feds aren't this aggressive against the white collar bank criminals who defrauded them and The American Public? Why aren't The Feds this aggressive in placing sanctions against US owned companies who are taking jobs away from Americans and shipping them overseas? Isn't this type of behavior contributing to the unemployment problem here in The States?

What happened to Freedom of Information? What happened to due process? What happened to the judicial process? Is America a democracy (where the people's voice is heard) or is it now a dictatorship (where The Gov't. ignores the people and do what they want).

To be honest, these politicians don't give a damn about anyone downloading a MP3 or video online. They are more concerned about getting political contributions (cash) for their future campaigns. They are also more concerned about keeping the perks that comes with being a politician. Cash under the table, free memberships in so-called exclusive social clubs, and various favors.

In my opinion, this matter should have been heard in court. I don't understand how The Gov't can tell free people not to visit certain sites. Yeah, I guess The Feds can now pat themselves on the back. The American Economy will now be revived in three days! Hip-hip-horayyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

[GroobySteven]

In my opinion, this matter should have been heard in court. I don't understand how The Gov't can tell free people not to visit certain sites. Yeah, I guess The Feds can now pat themselves on the back. The American Economy will now be revived in three days! Hip-hip-horayyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess you didn't bother to read my last post and instead decided to spout some issues which aren't relevant to this topic.

[Yvonne183]

Well, I wonder why The Feds aren't this aggressive against the white collar bank criminals who defrauded them and The American Public? Why aren't The Feds this aggressive in placing sanctions against US owned companies who are taking jobs away from Americans and shipping them overseas? Isn't this type of behavior contributing to the unemployment problem here in The States?

What happened to Freedom of Information? What happened to due process? What happened to the judicial process? Is America a democracy (where the people's voice is heard) or is it now a dictatorship (where The Gov't. ignores the people and do what they want).

To be honest, these politicians don't give a damn about anyone downloading a MP3 or video online. They are more concerned about getting political contributions (cash) for their future campaigns. They are also more concerned about keeping the perks that comes with being a politician. Cash under the table, free memberships in so-called exclusive social clubs, and various favors.

In my opinion, this matter should have been heard in court. I don't understand how The Gov't can tell free people not to visit certain sites. Yeah, I guess The Feds can now pat themselves on the back. The American Economy will now be revived in three days! Hip-hip-horayyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

Most excellent,,, good post.


Couldn't this site HA be shut down for having links to youtube vids that may be used without the owners consent? All the vids in the music thread,, are they all allowed to be on HA or can the feds shut down HA cause they may have copyrighted material on their site? Has anyone on HA actually checked with the owners of the music to see if they allow them to be on HA? I am not a copy write lawyer but it seems HA could be shut down for this.

[Faldur]

Take a good look at this house. The fileshare sites have pulled back but everyone has to know they will be back. With the kind of wealth that can be obtained, there will always be someone bold enough to go after it.

http://timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dotcom-house.jpg?w=600&h=400&crop=1

[GroobySteven]

I am not a copy write lawyer but it seems HA could be shut down for this.

Evidently. Maybe you should research before you post and waste the space.

[Yvonne183]

Evidently. Maybe you should research before you post and waste the space.


Go fuck yourself. I gave a serious question. Can HA be shut down cause of the music videos that are on their site. Could they be shut down and taken to jail for this.

I gave a serious question, if you can't see that then piss off and don't waste space.

[GroobySteven]

Go fuck yourself. I gave a serious question. Can HA be shut down cause of the music videos that are on their site. Could they be shut down and taken to jail for this.

I gave a serious question, if you can't see that then piss off and don't waste space.

No, no and no.
Why don't you read up on it. It's been mentioned here already.
It seems like you are confusing the not-passed SOPA laws with this action.

Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmca)

How hard is it to look up something yourself?

[Yvonne183]

No, no and no.
Why don't you fucking read up on it. It's been mentioned here already.
It seems like you are confusing the not-passed SOPA laws with this action.

Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmca)

How hard is it to look up something yourself?

No way I'm going to read all that to find out the answer I seek.

So let me see if my dumb brain gets it. If a owner of a song doesn't want his work on HA but finds it there, HA isn't liable at all for his/her content being on their site? HA doesn't have any obligation to find out if material is allowed to be posted on it's site? It's up to the owner of the content to seek out his work and ask it to be removed?

I am not confused with present law and SOPA. I would imagine that present law protects copy write material without having SOPA.

Anyway, your answer just saying no without a reason is just plain dumb. If you got a answer then say it, cause I ain't gonna read page after page of legal word speak.

[drmindbender03]

Guess you didn't bother to read my last post and instead decided to spout some issues which aren't relevant to this topic.

First of all, I wasn't speaking directly to you. Secondly, this is a forum. I am entitled to speak my mind. Lastly, conventional wisdom (common sense) should show you that my point is relevant.

[GroobySteven]

No way I'm going to read all that to find out the answer I seek.

Well that says it all really.

No, it's highly unlikely that HA or it's owners could be sued because they are protected under the DMCA act. If they abided by those laws (which they do) then they would be ok.

HA doesn't have any obligation to check on the copyright under the current laws. If notified, they must remove the links or copyright in a timely manner.

[BellaBellucci]

http://timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dotcom-house.jpg?w=600&h=400&crop=1

Hey, that looks like Steven's house! :lol:

~BB~

[iago_delgado]

Hey, that looks like Steven's house! :lol:

~BB~

Are you sure? I can't see his private landing site or jet fleet?

[GroobySteven]

Only one pool.

[BellaBellucci]

Are you sure? I can't see his private landing site or jet fleet?

They're underground, like the Batcave.

~BB~

[rasta]

i think its fine to protect artists.. they suffer plenty nuff.. spend 10 bucks and buy the cd..

[Paladin]

i mean, moses did carve that rule into some stone years ago and it's held up.

Yeah, that wasn't on the one he dropped in history of the world, part 1. :)

[Paladin]

Yeah we follow the files, almost everything comes from hacked passwords or stolen credit cards, the majority of logins are from Russians, on US credit cards.

What, do you embed a serial# or the logged in userid (or a cross reference) into a file as it gets downloaded from your sites???? Can't something like that be removed after the fact, or these mass site thieves too lazy to take the time to remove any such embedded traces... It would be a lot of work i must admit.

I don't see how you could do that on a .zipped still picture file that sits on the your sites already zipped. Even if the .zip file was tagged, merely unzipping it and re-zipping it to a new archive would clear the tag.

Or maybe i just don't know enough about digital media. I know how to clear all trace info out of business document files, but never delved into media files very much.

[Paladin]

That's the funny part you see cuz, MegaUpload was hosted on servers in Canada and the Netherlands and all of MegaUpload's owners and admins live in foreign countries but the FBI still arrested them. The United States owns this planet and can do whatever it wants, where-ever it wants. Our laws here in America have no authority over MegaUpload nor the guys that ran the site, yet have been arrested and charged.

No the FBI DIDN'T arrest them all, or kim dufus would be in a US jail right now.

[Paladin]

You buy magazine subscriptions, cable TV, utilities, etc. in the same way. It's became the norm so simply cancel the membership after you buy it if you don't want to be recharged.
We have some alternative methods at http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html and the ticket system we have is unlike anything else available, we're currently working on automating it further. http://www.grooby.com/tickets/

You don't buy a magazine subscription like that. Those are for a fixed time period, not endlessly re-billed. They are not even re-billed once.

You can't equate to a cable or utility bill, either completely different items.

[Paladin]

Guess you didn't bother to read my last post and instead decided to spout some issues which aren't relevant to this topic.

He's a moron, steven (I'm guessing that's your name), don't waste your time..

kim dot dufus & his cronies deserve everything that's coming their way.

And christ is alicia keys stupid.

[Paladin]

Go fuck yourself. I gave a serious question. Can HA be shut down cause of the music videos that are on their site. Could they be shut down and taken to jail for this.

I gave a serious question, if you can't see that then piss off and don't waste space.

Ooooooohhhhh, an internet tough guy is flexing his virtual muscle.

Give it a rest. you are only demonstrating how much of a fool you are.

[kukm4]

Rob Reid: The $8 billion iPod - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZadCj8O1-0)

[RallyCola]

this case is losing some steam

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10793788

http://torrentfreak.com/kim-dotcom-the-us-government-is-wrong-heres-why-120326/

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/business-tech/120319/errors-megaupload-raid-property-returned-kim-dotcom