A Shocking Confession

[hondarobot]

I have a somewhat odd confession I feel the need to make. I'm not looking for some goofy group hug or trying to get attention, it's just something that's been bugging me my whole life and I think it's about time I said something about it. I'm sure there are probably other people like me that are afraid to speak up and are probably having a pretty miserable life keeping things a secret.

I'm a TS. Yes, that sucked typing that and I'm sure it's the last thing anybody actually wanted to read. I don't live as a girl, I don't even want to be a girl, and I'm not attracted to men so I don't feel the need to make any physical changes. It's a hard deal being born a guy, having a girls brain and emotions, and being only attracted to girls to top it all off.

What in the world makes me think I'm trans, especially if I have no desire to physically be female? Well, physically I am fairly girl like. 5' 6", 135lbs, nice eye lashes, use to have hair down to my ass (and it's a pretty damn nice ass), all sorts of things. I shave my head now, have a beard, and so on to accentuate the male thing. I really wish I was 100% guy, life would be easier, but I'm not. People generally figure it out about me, most girls I've known don't really mind, they eventually come to the wrong conclusion that I'm gay.

I'm pretty sure Vicki figured things out awhile ago. When I met her the first thing I asked her was about her shoes, then proceeded to pick apart a quesadilla while chattering away about loopy stuff. Don't get me wrong, I don't act like some queenie guy, most people have no idea at all, I put on a good act. I'm just posting this to get things off my chest. I've been acting crazy a lot lately online, and especially getting on Vicki's nerves I'm sure with a ton of nonsense. I feel bad that I tried so hard this last year to convince her I was a "manly man", but I just couldn't make myself be that.

If their are any other guys here like me, don't worry you're not crazy. I suppose the decision to physical transform is a subject the girls could address. I'm fine how I am, a non-op transgender lesbian sorta thing.

You can't choose the kind of brain you're born with, but you can be honest with yourself and others.

And yes, if you think "that sucked! what's this wuss going on about!" just think how much I really didn't want to post it.

[BeardedOne]

Interesting post, Honda, and don't feel bad about letting it out.


I'm fine how I am, a non-op transgender lesbian sorta thing.

I can somewhat relate to this, having been dubbed a "male lesbian" by a number of wimmin that I know (And have "known" :wink: ). The psych types even came 'round with a term for it: Transhomosexual, being 'gay' but being attracted to gay people of the =opposite= gender.

Yah, go figure. It's made my intimate relationships like a day in Hell's Amusement Park. A ride on the roller-coaster with a dyke, the teacup ride with a bi-girl, a roll in the clown-car with a straight girl and a bi-curious guy, and finally a clumsy tour of the Tunnel o' Love with some nice T-gurl. In the end, I'm just a guy trying to make it to the exit gate without falling into the alligator pond.

I've never questioned my personal gender identity (I'm a guy, I have a dick, and I consider myself...well...a guy), but I've had people (Usually women) tell me that I think like a woman. Historically speaking (IMO), if that were so, I'd still be in one or more of my past relationships because, if I could really think like one, I'd surely have sensed the brick in the air before it whacked me in the head.

But I digress.

In the end there's only one thing that counts: Are you happy with you?

[/img]

[hondarobot]

Thanks for the feedback, BeardedOne. I imagine it could be argued that lacking a need to change gender, a person couldn't actually be considered Transgendered. I would tend to agree, so I don't know what the condition of having "girl brain" is exactly.

I do know that after I wrote that I instinctively put one hand on my waist, rubbed my nose and read what I just wrote. I have to watch myself constantly or I end up walking in a non-masculine way, hold my cigarette up in the air like a girl, just a million little things.

Having intuition is nice, as well as being able to use Girl Power at times. In my case it works well on the gay guys at work ("I can't lift this thing, could you help me?"). Hehehe, it's not all bad.

[BeardedOne]

I imagine it could be argued that lacking a need to change gender, a person couldn't actually be considered Transgendered.

Well, I know more than a few geniuses (Genii?) that don't have a college degree, so you can still be considered transgendered without the physical overhaul. A friend once wrote on gender/roleplay issues and developed a graphic based on the Kinsey 1-6 scale of sexual identity. It looked something like a game of Pick-Up-Stix, each 'stick' representing a 1-6 scale of male/female, gay/straight. butch/fem, Dom/sub, etc. The variables are endless, depending on where an individual falls on each scale relative to their own life and experiences. In gender identity I would consider myself floating somewhere around the 2-3 mark (Where 1 would be male and 6 female) while you might come closer to the 5 and someone like Allanah or Vicki would fall in the 5-6 neighborhood.

George Clooney would be -1. :)


I would tend to agree, so I don't know what the condition of having "girl brain" is exactly.

Careful, it almost sounds like 'mad cow' in that reference. Of course, there was that one girl... :twisted: :lol:


Having intuition is nice, as well as being able to use Girl Power at times. In my case it works well on the gay guys at work ("I can't lift this thing, could you help me?"). Hehehe, it's not all bad.

Hmm...I'll have to try that. :D

[GroobySteven]

:shock:

[BeardedOne]

Bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-bda-What are you trying to say, Seanchai?

:lol: :lol:

Like the rest of us aren't? :wink:

[Legend]

I have a somewhat odd confession I feel the need to make. I'm not looking for some goofy group hug or trying to get attention, it's just something that's been bugging me my whole life and I think it's about time I said something about it. I'm sure there are probably other people like me that are afraid to speak up and are probably having a pretty miserable life keeping things a secret.

I'm a TS. Yes, that sucked typing that and I'm sure it's the last thing anybody actually wanted to read. I don't live as a girl, I don't even want to be a girl, and I'm not attracted to men so I don't feel the need to make any physical changes. It's a hard deal being born a guy, having a girls brain and emotions, and being only attracted to girls to top it all off.

What in the world makes me think I'm trans, especially if I have no desire to physically be female? Well, physically I am fairly girl like. 5' 6", 135lbs, nice eye lashes, use to have hair down to my ass (and it's a pretty damn nice ass), all sorts of things. I shave my head now, have a beard, and so on to accentuate the male thing. I really wish I was 100% guy, life would be easier, but I'm not. People generally figure it out about me, most girls I've known don't really mind, they eventually come to the wrong conclusion that I'm gay.

I'm pretty sure Vicki figured things out awhile ago. When I met her the first thing I asked her was about her shoes, then proceeded to pick apart a quesadilla while chattering away about loopy stuff. Don't get me wrong, I don't act like some queenie guy, most people have no idea at all, I put on a good act. I'm just posting this to get things off my chest. I've been acting crazy a lot lately online, and especially getting on Vicki's nerves I'm sure with a ton of nonsense. I feel bad that I tried so hard this last year to convince her I was a "manly man", but I just couldn't make myself be that.

If their are any other guys here like me, don't worry you're not crazy. I suppose the decision to physical transform is a subject the girls could address. I'm fine how I am, a non-op transgender lesbian sorta thing.

You can't choose the kind of brain you're born with, but you can be honest with yourself and others.

And yes, if you think "that sucked! what's this wuss going on about!" just think how much I really didn't want to post it.

LMAO

[Harrys Boy]

your honesty is admirable

[AllanahStarrNYC]

maybe you are just a man who is very feminine-

i don't think that means you are a ts, unless you have a deep desire to change your body, or crossdress- then maybe you are a crossdresser?

there are men who are straight but are very feminine

[Ecstatic]

I can certainly relate to having strong feminine characteristics whilst still being entirely masculine. A year or so ago there was a thread here (I'm far too lazy to go looking for it) about writing style reflecting how feminine or masculine you are, and I tended to score at least halfway feminine, if not more so. Another quiz (a little silly but interesting; go to http://www.blogthings.com/howboyishorgirlishareyouquiz/ if you're curious) assess how boyish or girlish you are, and I landed smack dab in the middle 50/50. And I've seen similar results elsewhere. Doesn't make me remotely transgendered, other than in the sense that no human being is 100% one or the other, but rather has some of each (ye olde yin-yang <--- see my avatar). I tend to think that I exhibit some of the best characteristics of both genders, but hey, that's just my solipsistic, egocentric viewpoint. ;)

[BeardedOne]

(a little silly but interesting; go to http://www.blogthings.com/howboyishorgirlishareyouquiz/ if you're curious)

OMG! I'm a three! :shock:

"You are pretty evenly split down the middle - a total eunuch.
Okay, kidding about the eunuch part."

[hondarobot]

Well, it is a very complicated subject all around. I would agree that I'm absolutely not TS, since I don't want to alter myself in any way. I can't really say I'm very feminine because I really don't act feminine in any way (intentionally).

Perhaps I'm just odd. I much prefer socializing with girls rather then guys. I can't stand conversations about motorcycles and hunting trips and whatever, and when they occur I'll stage a coup and steer the conversation towards some damn sandwhich I had for lunch or something ridiculous.

And then there are the tantrums and hysterical outbursts I've been known to throw out an occasion. . .

I guess I'll stick with odd. Just thought it was an interesting topic to ponder.

(See what I'm talking about! How many guys use words like "ponder")

[chefmike]

Let's cut to the chase....are you a Madonna fan?

[chefmike]

And J....Hasidic Jews can't jump....their yarmulke would fall off...

[BeardedOne]

LETS GO SEAHAWKS!!!

Ah, the team that sued the post office over that damned eagle beak logo. Oy.

J, I started reading your post and was going to say "You're such an ass, but that's why we wuv you.". :)

But then you got all mushy on us. :wink:


...ur still a nutjob with regards to vikki...

That too. :lol:


...but i honestly feel there are many more poeple in ur boat than u think...

And this is true. In fact, you'll most likely find many on this board. I mean, really, how many "Am I gay?" threads do we complain about every day?


Perhaps I'm just odd.

Well <Slapping forehead> yah, d'y'think? :lol:

Really, Honda, we're a bunch of guys that like (Pardon me, ladies) chix-with-dix. From the perspective of the world-at-large, "odd" is not the word I'd imagine as first choice. :lol:


I much prefer socializing with girls rather then guys. I can't stand conversations about motorcycles...

Then you surely wouldn't want to hang with my 'crew'. They didn't come up with the title "Dykes On Bikes" for nothing. :D

Though I can relate, entirely, with the gender preference in regards to socializing. While I am just as comfortable knocking back brews with the football crowd (Though I have as much or more interest in the Superbowl ads than I do the actual game), I often gravitate towards the women in social situations.


And then there are the tantrums and hysterical outbursts I've been known to throw out an occasion. . .

That's not a gender thing, that's a pshychotic thing. My gender (Or gender identity) has nothing to do with why the Inspectors regard me as 'most likely to show up at work with an Uzi'.


I guess I'll stick with odd. Just thought it was an interesting topic to ponder.

(See what I'm talking about! How many guys use words like "ponder")

Hell-lowwww! Me?!? :P

[hondarobot]

Thanks J, good post. And no Chef, I am not a fan of Madonna. I'm trying desperately to think of a comeback, but all the Madonna jokes have been used up.

I realize how bizarre of a thing this is to throw out there, but really, I'm sure I've posted stranger things before and will again. I'm not good with restraint.

Everyone I've known for a great period of time eventually asks "what the hell? Do you have the brain of a girl or something?!" Then I slap their face and beat my fists repeatedly against their chests while sobbing "You brute! How could you hurt me like that!!!"

hehe

No, seriously, I guess I'm just odd.

[NickTheQuick]

Nothing wrong about not liking hunting and motorcycles, but I am curious.......do you pee sitting down?

[hondarobot]

Nothing wrong about not liking hunting and motorcycles, but I am curious.......do you pee sitting down?

Ahhhh. . . I'm going to be defending myself forever from this post. With any luck I may have just recaptured my title of Most Retarded Post Of The Year.

Oh, and no, Nick. I pee standing up, usually chomping on a cigar, and whistling the Ballad Of The Green Beret.

[BeardedOne]

Oh, and no, Nick. I pee standing up, usually chomping on a cigar, and whistling the Ballad Of The Green Beret.

Now that's a trick, whistling and chomping. :lol:

[Quinn]

And no Chef, I am not a fan of Madonna.

LOL. What about Liberace?

On a more serious note, Honda, don't sweat it. Everyone on this board is fucked up in one way or another. That's what makes it so much fun.

-Quinn

[Caleigh]

Honda, I just saw this thread for the first time and I think it's really fascinating. You might have a "feminine" brain. The whole thing about gender stereotyping is that if 60% of women score a certain way a test. From then on that is considered "normal" even though it still leaves out 40% of women. The thing to remember is to be honest with yourself about who you are, and you seem to be doing that.

There are women who are high acheivers in the sciences and math. That doesn't make them any less a woman. It just makes them slightly atypical for a woman.

We can't judge ourselves by the stereotype or everyone will think they have to be the same.

[chefmike]

chef, thats what they invented bobby pins for...i actually once almost killed a kid on my team who stopped a fast break cause his yarmulka fell off and went to retrieve it...

LMAO, J....funny stuff......

[BeardedOne]

LOL. What about Liberace?

What, you got something against ol' Wladzu? :D

I'm still torqued at a 1970's TV Guide that blurbed Sincerely Yours as "Not as bad as you might think".

[Chica]

well my words about it would be that you would only know if you were transgendered if you felt like that from birth... i did, when i was really young, i always wished that there was a day where boys were girls and girls were boys, but my dream never came true.. i was very small, 2nd smallest in my class and always pretty much outcasted cause the boys played soccer and the girls played with each others hair and stuff, i didnt know who to choose, so a lot of the time i sat there reflecting on the moments...

fast forward 13 or so years and im still not any closer to my goal... yet. i've got my whole planned out, but i guess i will have to wait and see if it actually works, and im praying to god that it will, otherwise i'd be in the shit, since its a pretty bold leap... trying to live in another city having no place to stay, no job, knowing no one, and having limited funds to be able to do it

i'd say to you, don't jump into it if you've only felt like this now... maybe it's you've become entangled into a fascination of how TS actually get along... but i guess your the one who makes that vital decision. people have srs at all ages, so its not uncommon stuff

[hondarobot]

No no, I've never felt the need to become a girl, and thus am not TS myself. My dilema resides more in the realm of, what the psychiatric sciences formally refers to as "being nuts".

I'm kidding, and that was a very good post Chica, you'll reach your goal eventually. Anyone who reads the posts on this forum know damn well I've been breaking apart steadily for several months now, the crash had to come sooner or later. I blame myself for every incident where I posted like a lunatic, including this one.

And thanks to BeardedOne, HarrysBoy, Allanah, Ecstatic, J, Chef, Quinn, Caleigh, and Chica for their input and support. Seanaki for his amusing post (that really was pretty funny), and Legend and Nick, thanks for contributing as well.

Yes, I did write down all the posters names on a recipe card and then just rambled on in the manner of delivering a speech at the Academy awards, further cementing my image as a rock jawed living tribute to vibrant masculinity.

It's been a wonderful thread, and please stay tuned for my next hysteric outburst, which I'm sure will erupt onto the scene within the next few weeks or so if history is to be the judge of things.

[Vicki Richter]

ur still a nutjob with regards to vikki...and she is still full of shit with regards to u...

LETS GO SEAHAWKS!!!

How am I full of shit. I don't provoke him. Sheesh. I can't win for losing.

[hondarobot]

ur still a nutjob with regards to vikki...and she is still full of shit with regards to u...

LETS GO SEAHAWKS!!!

How am I full of shit. I don't provoke him. Sheesh. I can't win for losing.

Vicki is correct, she does not provoke me. I go beserk sometimes and that's my own fault.

I'm being 100% serious here, she's alway been very nice and I consider her a good friend.

[Legend]

legend contributed? did i miss something? reminds me of when we were in yeshiva and the grand rabbi would come at the end of every year to test the students knowledge of the talmud..he would come in with a talmud and a paper listing all the students and their level of intelligence for questioning purposes..now every class had 1 or 2 legends in them, and their questions typicall went something like "so moshe, which chapter in the talkmud did we begin with this year?" followed by "excellant, very good, im proud of u indeed"

legend, thanx for contributing, get the fuck outta here...that was too sweet and almost, how would i say, ladylike?:)

Why don't you go back to gambling and counting your reparation money and STFU. By the way can you do my taxes?

[Chica]

I'm kidding, and that was a very good post Chica, you'll reach your goal eventually. Anyone who reads the posts on this forum know damn well I've been breaking apart steadily for several months now, the crash had to come sooner or later. I blame myself for every incident where I posted like a lunatic, including this one.

well thats no problem, but aint really had a chance to see the forum, too many arguments and picture threads so i havent browsed that often, but what can ya do

anyway, i think it's just a fascination u might have of how ts get along in their everyday life, since it's not as straight forward as most peoples, due to haters and stuff... but thats life. you seem like a level headed person though, im sure your mind will find something soon... u been having a hard time at work or something? it could be down to stress..

try to have a walk by yourself somewhere in a nice place... maybe by the river or a quiet open field where you can see all the scenery... it usually works for me just to get away from civilisation, and smell all the horse crap on the fields :P

[blahblahblah]

Vicki, what have you done to this freaking nosferatu?
You fucked him so hard with your big monster that he simply started
to believe he is a woman!! And now we are all having hard time
helping our friend to overcome that tragedy. You should think
of the consequences BEFORE you put your tool inside a hole.
He's only a human being, for fuck sake!

[partlycloudy]

I have a somewhat odd confession I feel the need to make. I'm not looking for some goofy group hug or trying to get attention, it's just something that's been bugging me my whole life and I think it's about time I said something about it. I'm sure there are probably other people like me that are afraid to speak up and are probably having a pretty miserable life keeping things a secret.

I'm a TS. Yes, that sucked typing that and I'm sure it's the last thing anybody actually wanted to read. I don't live as a girl, I don't even want to be a girl, and I'm not attracted to men so I don't feel the need to make any physical changes. It's a hard deal being born a guy, having a girls brain and emotions, and being only attracted to girls to top it all off.

What in the world makes me think I'm trans, especially if I have no desire to physically be female? Well, physically I am fairly girl like. 5' 6", 135lbs, nice eye lashes, use to have hair down to my ass (and it's a pretty damn nice ass), all sorts of things. I shave my head now, have a beard, and so on to accentuate the male thing. I really wish I was 100% guy, life would be easier, but I'm not. People generally figure it out about me, most girls I've known don't really mind, they eventually come to the wrong conclusion that I'm gay.

I'm pretty sure Vicki figured things out awhile ago. When I met her the first thing I asked her was about her shoes, then proceeded to pick apart a quesadilla while chattering away about loopy stuff. Don't get me wrong, I don't act like some queenie guy, most people have no idea at all, I put on a good act. I'm just posting this to get things off my chest. I've been acting crazy a lot lately online, and especially getting on Vicki's nerves I'm sure with a ton of nonsense. I feel bad that I tried so hard this last year to convince her I was a "manly man", but I just couldn't make myself be that.

If their are any other guys here like me, don't worry you're not crazy. I suppose the decision to physical transform is a subject the girls could address. I'm fine how I am, a non-op transgender lesbian sorta thing.

You can't choose the kind of brain you're born with, but you can be honest with yourself and others.

And yes, if you think "that sucked! what's this wuss going on about!" just think how much I really didn't want to post it.

[hondarobot]

I swear to God, partlycloudy is a fricken genius. . .even though I have no idea what he's up to half the time. Honestly though, he's brilliant.

Oh, and for the record, although it's really nobody's business, Vicki did not fuck me. I'm not saying I would be opposed to that, but she did not insert her shecock into my ass while I was on vacation last summer. Just to be clear on things.

[chefmike]

:lol:

[whatsupwithat]

Hmmm..from the quiz posted on the first page of the thread...

You Are 10% Boyish and 90% Girlish

Even if you're not a girl, you're very feminine. You're in touch with your feelings, and your heart rules you. A bit of a emotional roller coaster, one moment you're up and the next you're down. But no matter what, you try to be as cute and perky as possible.


That's it...I'm gonna' start the mones! Or maybe I don't even need them. heh. :)

[hondarobot]

Hmmm..from the quiz posted on the first page of the thread...

You Are 10% Boyish and 90% Girlish

Even if you're not a girl, you're very feminine. You're in touch with your feelings, and your heart rules you. A bit of a emotional roller coaster, one moment you're up and the next you're down. But no matter what, you try to be as cute and perky as possible.


That's it...I'm gonna' start the mones! Or maybe I don't even need them. heh. :)

This place is very confused. There is no truth here.

Trust me, I looked for it.

[blackmagic]

And yes, if you think "that sucked! what's this wuss going on about!" just think how much I really didn't want to post it.

well hey it took alot of guts to say that, I wish ya the best of luck girl... :D :rock2

[peggygee]

Honda, I just saw this thread for the first time and I think it's really fascinating. You might have a "feminine" brain. The whole thing about gender stereotyping is that if 60% of women score a certain way a test. From then on that is considered "normal" even though it still leaves out 40% of women. The thing to remember is to be honest with yourself about who you are, and you seem to be doing that.

There are women who are high acheivers in the sciences and math. That doesn't make them any less a woman. It just makes them slightly atypical for a woman.

We can't judge ourselves by the stereotype or everyone will think they have to be the same.

I concur 100%

[whatsupwithat]

Hmmm..from the quiz posted on the first page of the thread...

You Are 10% Boyish and 90% Girlish

Even if you're not a girl, you're very feminine. You're in touch with your feelings, and your heart rules you. A bit of a emotional roller coaster, one moment you're up and the next you're down. But no matter what, you try to be as cute and perky as possible.


That's it...I'm gonna' start the mones! Or maybe I don't even need them. heh. :)

This place is very confused. There is no truth here.

Trust me, I looked for it.

There is truth here. That was my truth. Or at least the truth I got from a silly quiz. i think it's beautiful that you chose to speak about yourself. if there was more honesty like that in the world...just imagine...

[cindi4554]

honda....you are not alone...your post was the first one I have ever read that accurately mirrors the exact same thoughts and emotions that go through my head on a daily basis....finding that mythical "balance point" is often torturous and exhausting...it's taken me decades to reach it and to be quite truthful, I'm not exactly sure that I have...yet.

[GrimFusion]

Personally, I think this whole "manly-man" and "womanly-lady" thing is a load of bull. Gender is what you have between your legs AND what you have going between your ears.

With that said, you might be surprised to know that MANY guys whom embody the whole "manly-man" image tend to stray from the idea while in private. There's not a damn thing wrong with a dude that comes home from the gym every day and sits down in front of their TV to watch soap operas.

Just like, there's not a damn thing wrong with a woman who comes home from getting her hair done, just to tie it up, prop the hood on her car, and whom starts repairing it.

It's not about what you do. It's more about your comfort level and how you think. If you feel natural and at ease being a guy, then guess what? You're probably a guy. If you spend your private time dressing up in women's clothes and enjoy being treated like a lady, perhaps transitioning may not be right for you, but it'd be safe to assume you better recognize with women and may in fact feel more comfortable living as one.

Either way, what you do is up to you, but I, for one, wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume you're a "Transformer: TS in disguise" just because you have a few womanly tenancies and talk about shoes.

[GrimFusion]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that gender isn't as black and white as the media makes it out to be. Just as gay and straight isn't black and white either. I fear you might be jumping ahead of yourself a bit if you think that talking about shoes, once having long hair, thinking as you would assume a woman thinks, and having other womanly tenancies labels you out as a closeted transgender person.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'd assume (and correct me if I'm wrong here) that labeling yourself transgender would require some drive to either become a woman or the desire to become genderly ambiguous. If neither are true, then you're probably just like every other dude here on planet earth... just with a few more insecurities.

[irish_rose]

I say to all if Hondarobot is now a cute TS as he claims, let him show us the photo that proves his point

[Kabuki]

I say to all if Hondarobot is now a cute TS as he claims, let him show us the photo that proves his pointBe honest. Is this you, Kelly?
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h225/irezumigirl/dondle%20pics/carrotstump.jpg

These Carrot Top photos are scary.

[mrironknee]

Now for my confession.
I like Barbra Streisand.
Not the NOW Barbra, but the young Barbra. The Barbra from "What's Up Doc". The Barbra from Funny Girl. I can sit and listen to "He Touched Me", or "My Man", or "One Less Bell to Answer" for hours.
I know what forum this is, but truthfully, I'm about as far from being considered "Gay" or even slightly feminine as far as acting or thinking as they come. I like sports, I like women, I hate the Lifetime Channel, and two guys kissing makes me limp quicker than Chinese math.
Even as far as music goes, I like Pearl Jam, M&M, Foo Fighters, etc., so it's not just that either.
It's like where do I fit in, and with who?
Life is just to weird.

Final note: If Honda and J are brilliant comic genius', this tongue and cheek diatribe will be taken in good spirit. Otherwise, this will probably do a combination of sailing over heads and dropping like a lead weight. Either way, you guys are definitely entertaining!