Can one be TG without implants and hormones?

[Ben]

I mean, say one wants to be accepted as a woman without hormones and breast implants. Can one be?????
The question is more for TG girls -- :)
I think this may apply to Madison Montag -- and others -- :)

Tranny Awards - Madison Montag - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUiofLnPwf8)

[tsadriana]

Yes transvestite or crossdresser more like it.

[BellaBellucci]

Hey everyone! Check it out! There's a dead horse over here! :lol:

~BB~

[Ben]

TEASER! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMWscejWRoU)

[Ben]

Yes transvestite or crossdresser more like it.

So, again, are hormones and implants a prerequisite to being called a woman. I mean, I met a TG in a gay/tran club who isn't on hormones and refuses to get implants but wants to be seen by the world as a woman.

[justafreak]

there are plenty of flat chest gg's, but the no hormone thing might be an issue eventually, especially if you plan of convincing anyone besides yourself that you're a woman.

[tsadriana]

So, again, are hormones and implants a prerequisite to being called a woman. I mean, I met a TG in a gay/tran club who isn't on hormones and refuses to get implants but wants to be seen by the world as a woman.
Thats the wrong idea in men brains that if u have silicone u are transexual woman is absolutley tottaly wrong.Silicone dons`t make a transexual .are 2 type of transexual :
1:_ born like that and go for transition
2:_ transexual who discover they identity later .
take that thing out from ur mind with if u have silicone ur transexual woman.

[EvonRose]

not w/out hormones the point of hormonal treatment to rewire the brain and body..

[onmyknees]

So, again, are hormones and implants a prerequisite to being called a woman. I mean, I met a TG in a gay/tran club who isn't on hormones and refuses to get implants but wants to be seen by the world as a woman.

Ben...I think what you're about to find out is the answer to your question depends totally on if you're a TS or a dude. Like you, I don't (or didn't) have a strict defination, and actually am indifferent to it all anyway, ( as long as you don't get in my face...I'll call you whatever suits you) but you're going to see.....most here won't share your "generosity" with the defination.

[TsVanessa69]

i do not take hormones never have

[AmyDaly]

Silicone alone doesn't mean someones a TS. There are plenty of "girls" who get boob jobs and silcone implants and then decide to detransition and become a man again. A Transsexual is someone who physically changes their body in order to have their body more fit their gender in their brain that they identify with. I'm not trying to offend Vanessa or any other girl who doesn't take hormones, but girls who don't take hormones are still basically male bodied and will age like a male does. Balding, fat distribution, complexion, body hair growth,further vocal changes, etc. Not too sure how or why someone would could want to be a woman, but still be male bodied.

[Erika1487]

not w/out hormones the point of hormonal treatment to rewire the brain and body..

Bump^

[robertlouis]

While there's a big temptation to agree with Bella, this could be an interesting and useful thread. It would make sense to me if guys held off on making comments until the girls have had their say - anything that men have to say on this subject will be speculative or dick-focused (surprise, surprise) and irrelevant at best - this is a question that only the girls can answer, and the variety of responses so far show just how subjective and personal it can be.

[tsadriana]

transexual woman transexual no matter how the real one is that one who think like a woman,dream,act,talk,behave,needs,walk,dress, etc .transexual inside/out.who goes for transition complete or not means change sex,silicone and other plastic surgery .transexual is not painted by plastic surgery is born like one or become one later .transexual_transition says all.

[tsadriana]

Anyway are 100`s soppose transexuals in Uk who wear woman chlotes and call themself transexual .agreed or not is their choices but the realitty is another .i don`t judge them but i wont allow to someone who din`t take at least one pill or injection of hormones to say that transexual is not like that.i don`t judge but like i said when i read sometin i agreed or disagreed .

[justafreak]

most girls will go as far as they want or can afford to go. It's their transition after all. some girls are just fine being trannies and don't care about being stealth, others want the world to see them as women and so they go even further. at the end of the day they are fall under the trans umbrella.

[AmyDaly]

Anyway are 100`s soppose transexuals in Uk who wear woman chlotes and call themself transexual .agreed or not is their choices but the realitty is another

exactly...You can choose to call yourself what ever you want, but it doesn't mean you are. You are either born a transsexual or you aren't. This isn't a choice. Cross dressers can wear a wig and call themselves a "tranny" or a pretend they are one of us all they want. It doesn't mean they are anything more than just another boy with a wig or a cross dresser.

I honestly find it offensive for a crossdresser to pretend they are a transsexual. At the end of the day, they take off their wig and can go back to living as a man or they can cut their hair and be a boy again while those of us who were born this way and didn't ask to be like this know that this is how its going to be for the rest of our lives.

[Silcc69]

Silicone alone doesn't mean someones a TS. There are plenty of "girls" who get boob jobs and silcone implants and then decide to detransition and become a man again. A Transsexual is someone who physically changes their body in order to have their body more fit their gender in their brain that they identify with. I'm not trying to offend Vanessa or any other girl who doesn't take hormones, but girls who don't take hormones are still basically male bodied and will age like a male does. Balding, fat distribution, complexion, body hair growth,further vocal changes, etc. Not too sure how or why someone would could want to be a woman, but still be male bodied.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[tsadriana]

exactly...You can choose to call yourself what ever you want, but it doesn't mean you are. You are either born a transsexual or you aren't. This isn't a choice. Cross dressers can wear a wig and call themselves a "tranny" or a pretend they are one of us all they want. It doesn't mean they are anything more than just another boy with a wig or a cross dresser.

I honestly find it offensive for a crossdresser to pretend they are a transsexual. At the end of the day, they take off their wig and can go back to living as a man or they can cut their hair and be a boy again while those of us who were born this way and didn't ask to be like this know that this is how its going to be for the rest of our lives.
Finaly someone is agreed with me.:)

[tsadriana]

Finaly someone is agreed with me.:)

And a huge mistake on transexual is they rather pay implant of silicone than having they own hair because now is posibible even hair implant and u have for the rest of ur life .but silicone 10 years or 15 years laters u have to change them again lol.

[BellaBellucci]

exactly...You can choose to call yourself what ever you want, but it doesn't mean you are. You are either born a transsexual or you aren't. This isn't a choice. Cross dressers can wear a wig and call themselves a "tranny" or a pretend they are one of us all they want. It doesn't mean they are anything more than just another boy with a wig or a cross dresser.

I honestly find it offensive for a crossdresser to pretend they are a transsexual. At the end of the day, they take off their wig and can go back to living as a man or they can cut their hair and be a boy again while those of us who were born this way and didn't ask to be like this know that this is how its going to be for the rest of our lives.

This. :rock2

~BB~

[Erika1487]

Implants are rather debatable because many girls get them before thier breasts really have time to develop properly. (at least 24 months)
HRT is what really makes change in the body, I was told that full effects won't been realized until 4-5 yrs after.
I honestly say that there is a major diffrence between Pre-HRT and 11 months since, is my thought process.
Estrogen rewires our brain in ways that are had to describe.
Before HRT I took the Myers Briggs Type Indicator test to see just what kind of Base I was at age 31yrs 6 months I my MBTI was: ENTJ (extraversion, intuition, thinking, judgment) Often this types are more Politcal leaders, Administrators, Millitary leaders.

I just took the MBTI again 2 weeks ago, what came out was suprising to say the least. My result....I tested as a ESFJ (Extraversion, Sensing, Feeling, Judgment) ESFJs tend to be vocal in expressing their sense of right and wrong. Their value system derives from the external standards defined by their community, as opposed to a personal set of ethics. ESFJs raised in an environment of high ethical standards tend to display true generosity and kindness.
This is a total change of my personality, I remained constant in my work enviorment, other than HRT.
In 11months of HRT I traded thinking & Judgement for sensing & feeling...
Softer skin, thicker hips, butt, and the C Cup Breasts are a nice addition as well;) The point being is there is real science behind the chemical makeup of the trans brain, and hopefully we can understand and map these changes for the future.

[MdR Dave]

This. :rock2

~BB~
So back to the idea of a poll about CDs and whether or not we should call them girls. . .I must be missing something between this thread and that one, and I know that you can elucidate.


Lay it out for me, Bella.

[BellaBellucci]

So back to the idea of a poll about CDs and whether or not we should call them girls. . .I must be missing something between this thread and that one, and I know that you can elucidate.


Lay it out for me, Bella.

We call them girls out of respect for their self-identification, but that doesn't make it so. It seems pretty simple to me. :wiggle:

~BB~

[EvonRose]

Silicone alone doesn't mean someones a TS. There are plenty of "girls" who get boob jobs and silcone implants and then decide to detransition and become a man again. A Transsexual is someone who physically changes their body in order to have their body more fit their gender in their brain that they identify with. I'm not trying to offend Vanessa or any other girl who doesn't take hormones, but girls who don't take hormones are still basically male bodied and will age like a male does. Balding, fat distribution, complexion, body hair growth,further vocal changes, etc. Not too sure how or why someone would could want to be a woman, but still be male bodied.

I agree with you 100 percent, fat distribution and softness, comes to mind and like she said you will age like a man due to lack of estrogen and more of testosterone.

Many "ts" don't take it because they don't want to lose their functionality and many of these women are mostly in the sex industry, so i understand why they may not want to take little if not at all..

[onmyknees]

We call them girls out of respect for their self-identification, but that doesn't make it so. It seems pretty simple to me. :wiggle:

~BB~


So this has nothing to do what passability....as some dudes seem to be forever hung up on, and as Ben alluded to in his post? If I understand you ladies...it's more what's in your heart and head, and how you live your life everyday than how feminine one might look to others.....which I understand is subjective anyway. So by that defination....a TV could actually be more attractive in terms of looking feminine than a true transexual?

I'm not trying to be cute....just looking for some clear lines of distinction.

[MdR Dave]

We call them girls out of respect for their self-identification, but that doesn't make it so. It seems pretty simple to me. :wiggle:

~BB~
OK- can't argue with that!

[robertlouis]

I agree with you 100 percent, fat distribution and softness, comes to mind and like she said you will age like a man due to lack of estrogen and more of testosterone.

Many "ts" don't take it because they don't want to lose their functionality and many of these women are mostly in the sex industry, so i understand why they may not want to take little if not at all..

That helps me to understand my primary attraction to the more feminine girls and especially to those whose goal is to complete their transition in full, ie. their involvement in the sex industry, if any, is very much a means to an end and a relatively short-term commitment. The motivational psychology of the person is a key factor just as much as the initial physical attraction. Thanks Evon.

[tsadriana]

woman chlotes dons`t make u a transexual woman.the most important in a transexual is her brain .like plenty from her and not only from here have said wearing some stockings ,heavy make-up like a draqueenand highheels it not gives the status of transexual at all.And absolutley true the porn industry need girls with hard dick ,not ts with transition .i said it and im gonna repeat are plenty transexual specially the escorts ones who has fab body and look ,lots of plastic surgery but they dick hang out in every pic.is a bit funny to read a profile pro escort who says " Im the ultimate fanstasy girl ,ur dream come true but her dick is hard as rock like a proper man.well done ultimate girls but not for long as will come a time when dick it wont work.
For me having dick or not im feel the same a proper transexual woman and im proud to say the im look better the a real girl are maybe girls with 10 plastic surgerys.i don`t have one surgery i will never do one as im very happy with the look of mine as the nature was to greatful with me.

[trish]

One is born with a woman’s brain or one is not, independently of what other equipment one might have. Some girls may be able to actualize their dreams, their desires, their perception of themselves without the aid of doctors and surgeons. Good for them. I, on the other hand, was not up to the task. I just couldn’t strike a consonant harmony between mind and body without the help of medical science.

[robertlouis]

woman chlotes dons`t make u a transexual woman.the most important in a transexual is her brain .like plenty from her and not only from here have said wearing some stockings ,heavy make-up like a draqueenand highheels it not gives the status of transexual at all.And absolutley true the porn industry need girls with hard dick ,not ts with transition .i said it and im gonna repeat are plenty transexual specially the escorts ones who has fab body and look ,lots of plastic surgery but they dick hang out in every pic.is a bit funny to read a profile pro escort who says " Im the ultimate fanstasy girl ,ur dream come true but her dick is hard as rock like a proper man.well done ultimate girls but not for long as will come a time when dick it wont work.
For me having dick or not im feel the same a proper transexual woman and im proud to say the im look better the a real girl are maybe girls with 10 plastic surgerys.i don`t have one surgery i will never do one as im very happy with the look of mine as the nature was to greatful with me.

I agree pretty much with all of that, Adriana. When I see a pic of a really pretty and feminine girl I find that the presence of an erect and large cock can be quite incongruous, and certainly not a turn on for me. As I've said before, I like to be with a feminine girl who relishes the woman's role in sex and sees it as part of her mission to achieve full womanhood.

So why not just go with a genetic girl in that case? Well, I do, as it happens, but I just find that a tgirl who wants to be and to take the role of a genetic girl is incredibly enticing.

[Colin92660]

Preferably without implants. Preferably WITH hormones. But I think it's what's in her head that makes her transgender, not what she does to the outside.

[BellaBellucci]

So by that defination....a TV could actually be more attractive in terms of looking feminine than a true transexual?

Correct. While rare, they do exist.

~BB~

[Jackal]

In terms of identity, I think someone would be transgender before transition or in the cases of people who are unable to or not transition to the point of HRT/implants/surgeries.

[asianphoenixx]

Silicone alone doesn't mean someones a TS. There are plenty of "girls" who get boob jobs and silcone implants and then decide to detransition and become a man again. A Transsexual is someone who physically changes their body in order to have their body more fit their gender in their brain that they identify with. I'm not trying to offend Vanessa or any other girl who doesn't take hormones, but girls who don't take hormones are still basically male bodied and will age like a male does. Balding, fat distribution, complexion, body hair growth,further vocal changes, etc. Not too sure how or why someone would could want to be a woman, but still be male bodied.

In general, you are right. Few exceptions apply though.

I'm not trying to brag myself, but i'm lucky enough to be born slim with some innate feminine qualities.

At this time, i don't bother whether or not people think i'm a TV or Ts..I'm simply a person who lives my life as i want it to be. I was born literally with both souls, with some feminine and masculine qualities.

If the question is: Do I live as a woman?

Most people think I'm a woman, although I wish they know i'm not so it's easier for me to get cute men in bed without any complication LOL.
So the answer is: I live as myself, a mixed gender although the society think and treat me as a woman.

Now about hormones,
Everybody is getting older, including myself. My dad's hair is thinning and i'm scared, I will be like him in the future. I hate also to think that I will age more manly and masculine, thus i have taken some herbal supplements including a low dose of estradiol (female hormones) and a little bit of anti androgen to maintain my feminine qualities.

I just tried to heighten my dose..and i'm gaining weight so I stopped it immediately.

Now I know...just a little bit of female hormones definitely helps..but definitely not too much.

Am I a trans then?
Actually I'm..I was born this way...and will never ever be a man. As a matter of fact...I never experience live as a man...because my transition is: from a pretty femboy to a tgirl.

That's my honest answer:)

Tia Phoenixx

[EvonRose]

In general, you are right. Few exceptions apply though.

I'm not trying to brag myself, but i'm lucky enough to be born slim with some innate feminine qualities.

At this time, i don't bother whether or not people think i'm a TV or Ts..I'm simply a person who lives my life as i want it to be. I was born literally with both souls, with some feminine and masculine qualities.

If the question is: Do I live as a woman?

Most people think I'm a woman, although I wish they know i'm not so it's easier for me to get cute men in bed without any complication LOL.
So the answer is: I live as myself, a mixed gender although the society think and treat me as a woman.

Now about hormones,
Everybody is getting older, including myself. My dad's hair is thinning and i'm scared, I will be like him in the future. I hate also to think that I will age more manly and masculine, thus i have taken some herbal supplements including a low dose of estradiol (female hormones) and a little bit of anti androgen to maintain my feminine qualities.

I just tried to heighten my dose..and i'm gaining weight so I stopped it immediately.

Now I know...just a little bit of female hormones definitely helps..but definitely not too much.

Am I a trans then?
Actually I'm..I was born this way...and will never ever be a man. As a matter of fact...I never experience live as a man...because my transition is: from a pretty femboy to a tgirl.

That's my honest answer:)

Tia Phoenixx

I myself have been very thin growing up, and at 17 i notice weight gain shot up to 140lbs and i didn't like it, but i stuck to my hormones and i also started getting physically active, let me tell you the hormones did its thing, i lost weigh in all the right places and remained curvy in other places, I know weigh 120 lbs at 5'7 with a measurement of 32D-23-36. Hormones help the person fee better about themselves and science also proves by taking hormones the brain is rewired with making the person feel of inner peace. Of course it is all preference and I think you can be a transsexual with or without hormones. However being transgender is quite different, many believe only the ones who actually are going to get sex change or are going to get it are the true transgenders. But regardless were all sisters and we need support, do what is right for your life because at the end of the day you live for yourself and no one else!

[asianphoenixx]

I myself have been very thin growing up, and at 17 i notice weight gain shot up to 140lbs and i didn't like it, but i stuck to my hormones and i also started getting physically active, let me tell you the hormones did its thing, i lost weigh in all the right places and remained curvy in other places, I know weigh 120 lbs at 5'7 with a measurement of 32D-23-36. Hormones help the person fee better about themselves and science also proves by taking hormones the brain is rewired with making the person feel of inner peace. Of course it is all preference and I think you can be a transsexual with or without hormones. However being transgender is quite different, many believe only the ones who actually are going to get sex change or are going to get it are the true transgenders. But regardless were all sisters and we need support, do what is right for your life because at the end of the day you live for yourself and no one else!


"..regardless we're all sisters and we need support, do what is right for your life because at the end of the day you live for yourself and no one else!"

Perfect:)
tolerance is the key. Let's accept each of us with our own uniqueness and characteristics....we're indeed a big family

[Prospero]

The two most beautiful girls here in dialogue. Heaven.

[giovanni_hotel]

If you don't live as a woman 24/7, then IMO you're only a trans-chick in thought.

[LibertyHarkness]

i love my hormones and am now on quite a high dose as i am focussed on transitioning .... I have been told about the issues of erectile function will hurt my porn/adult career .. i dont really care its just a job at end of day .. not something i intend to do for ever .. i am working towards working off camera alot more :) i am 34 in december and i like to think i will be finished modelling by the time i am 37/38 at latest ..

But i love my hormones they have really altered my body from 2008 ...I will be most likely getting an orchi done as well next year at somepoint to compliment the process thus to allow me to dumb down my hormone in take. ..

While i dont think hormones / surgery make you a transsexual, sooner or later the Transsexual has to make a choice with their older life and how they age ...as people have stated aging without hormones isnt going to be great ..

as for functionality, well while it works i use it , when it no longer works i wont have it . or i wont use it lol so its no biggie .. i think for people to base their transition on sexual function is not so sensible as it will affect them later on in life mentally ..

People will just do what is right for them,. i know a TS that cant take hormones for medical reasons ..is she any less a TS , of course not ...

[alyssaluxor]

for me going back to the main question:

Can one be TG without implants and hormones?

my answer is yes ;)

[0utrageousss]

Thats a dude.

[brooke3]

With the utmost respect and admiration for the girls who are able to transition with hormones,there are transgendered people who,for various reasons,can not.

[BellaBellucci]

With the utmost respect and admiration for the girls who are able to transition with hormones,there are transgendered people who,for various reasons,can not.

For various reasons, I can't go through astronaut training... but I'm still an astronaut. :?

You either do it or you don't. I can respect the plight of people who can't, but if you can't become something, then by definition you're not it. The same goes for those who don't transition for 'family' or 'social' reasons. Bullshit. They don't forego transition for others. They do so because they fear rejection.

A little math: testosterone + penis + male secondary sex characteristics + legal male identity = man. Sorry.

~BB~

[tsadriana]

My truly opinion a transexual is not part time ,not in percent or transexual or not.is not like when u put make up and woman chlotes u call urself bimbo and u are transexual and when u go to sleep u take ur wigg off and ur name is dumbo.transexual is transexual.

[Heather Moorland]

Tecnically a transsexual is someone who change the fysical sex. Somone who has had or wants to have SRS. So if thats the deffinition the answord is no.

If being transgender is somthing you are born with (which I think it is) You are transgender even before you start your transition. Rigth. Also archeologist have found a transgender person from the stoneage (a male skeleton burried with female belongings and in a possition only female were burried in in that particular culture) In those days I dont believe they had silicone and possilbly not even hormonetreatment (unles she drank pregnant mare urin or somthing) :-)

About HRT I will say that I never felt any "rewiering" but I do like the fysical effect of the hormones though. The biggest "rewiering" I felt was when I started going out with guys. Somthing I was to homophobic to do before I came out as transgender. As a woman I do prefere having sex with men though.
Currently I am on 2mg of Estrogen and 100 mg of spiro. And it doesen't effect my libido. I do not take Cyproterone acetate which is common amongs transsexuals in Denmark. Some of my ts-freinds tell me that I shout take it but I refuse because that will kill everything below the waist.

[BellaBellucci]

Tecnically a transsexual is someone who change the fysical sex. Somone who has had or wants to have SRS. So if thats the deffinition the answord is no.

If being transgender is somthing you are born with (which I think it is) You are transgender even before you start your transition. Rigth. Also archeologist have found a transgender person from the stoneage (a male skeleton burried with female belongings and in a possition only female were burried in in that particular culture) In those days I dont believe they had silicone and possilbly not even hormonetreatment (unles she drank pregnant mare urin or somthing) :-)

About HRT I will say that I never felt any "rewiering" but I do like the fysical effect of the hormones though. The biggest "rewiering" I felt was when I started going out with guys. Somthing I was to homophobic to do before I came out as transgender. As a woman I do prefere having sex with men though.
Currently I am on 2mg of Estrogen and 100 mg of spiro. And it doesen't effect my libido. I do not take Cyproterone acetate which is common amongs transsexuals in Denmark. Some of my ts-freinds tell me that I shout take it but I refuse because that will kill everything below the waist.

No offense, but your signature suggests that you're a 'sissy.' Furthermore, your profile title is simply 'shemale?' My feelings on that word aside, you don't see girls referring to themselves that way unless they're promoting something, which means you have pride in being something that you're not. Finally, 2mg of estradiol a day is nearly nothing.

All of that said, I doubt you have the slightest clue about what we're discussing. I sense that you're another of the UK crossdresser crew seeking validation here. If so, I seriously doubt you'll get it, but by all means, knock yourself out. :geek:

Oh, and in regards to ancient transpeople, the cultures that nurtured them were more accepting than ours, but it's because they used a different standard to define womanhood and were more flexible to variations in gender roles because of the lack of medical science to validate these people. That didn't make them women either, just accepted as such as a matter of social propriety. Believe me, if they had access to hormones, many would have taken them, which would indicate on some level that even they knew they'd never really be women.

~BB~

[FreddieGomez]

Sorry. I dont think so.

[FreddieGomez]

No offense, but your signature suggests that you're a 'sissy.' Furthermore, your profile title is simple 'shemale?' My feelings on that word aside, you don't see girls referring to themselves that way unless they're promoting something, which means you have in pride in being something that you're not. Finally, 2mg of estradiol a day is a joke.

All of that said, I doubt you have the slightest clue about what we're discussing. I sense that you're another of the UK crossdresser crew seeking validation here. If so, I seriously doubt you'll get it, but by all means, knock yourself out. :geek:

~BB~

Bella, that is a man!

[tsadriana]

Dons`t matter what they are ,but are to many who dons`t have a clue in what is a ts ,shemale ,absolutley zero.when someone take hormones u see the changes in time .thats why sometimes i doubt it when i read that was in transition for years but her body ,face is more masculine than feminine.some girls can be so lucky and be feminine without hormones ,but i can`t beleve in feminity with the look of the man.

[tsadriana]

Dons`t matter what they are ,but are to many who dons`t have a clue in what is a ts ,shemale ,absolutley zero.when someone take hormones u see the changes in time .thats why sometimes i doubt it when i read that was in transition for years but her body ,face is more masculine than feminine.some girls can be so lucky and be feminine without hormones ,but i can`t beleve in feminity with the look of the man.
This is feminity guys :)


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/picture.php?albumid=207&pictureid=2300
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=429550&stc=1&d=1319666231
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/picture.php?albumid=645&pictureid=3827

[0utrageousss]

Tecnically a transsexual is someone who change the fysical sex. Somone who has had or wants to have SRS. So if thats the deffinition the answord is no.

If being transgender is somthing you are born with (which I think it is) You are transgender even before you start your transition. Rigth. Also archeologist have found a transgender person from the stoneage (a male skeleton burried with female belongings and in a possition only female were burried in in that particular culture) In those days I dont believe they had silicone and possilbly not even hormonetreatment (unles she drank pregnant mare urin or somthing) :-)

About HRT I will say that I never felt any "rewiering" but I do like the fysical effect of the hormones though. The biggest "rewiering" I felt was when I started going out with guys. Somthing I was to homophobic to do before I came out as transgender. As a woman I do prefere having sex with men though.
Currently I am on 2mg of Estrogen and 100 mg of spiro. And it doesen't effect my libido. I do not take Cyproterone acetate which is common amongs transsexuals in Denmark. Some of my ts-freinds tell me that I shout take it but I refuse because that will kill everything below the waist.

You are what's known as a transvestite.

[Heather Moorland]

No offense, but your signature suggests that you're a 'sissy.' Furthermore, your profile title is simply 'shemale?' My feelings on that word aside, you don't see girls referring to themselves that way unless they're promoting something, which means you have in pride in being something that you're not. Finally, 2mg of estradiol a day is nearly nothing.
Do you want to start a mudfigth or do you just want to make me cry? The hormone dosage I take is what my gynecologist (equevalent og an endocrinologist) prescribe. As for my signature; it a joke (ok translated from danish but never the les a joke) you didn't get it? And no I do not where dipers nor little girls dresses!
The reason why my profile title is Shemale is because I have both a penis and tits and thats what is need to qualify for being such a creature I have heard. What ever you are sensing I think you lac the rigth amount of intuition.

As for ancient cultures i can only agre with you, but a can not se how it in any way conflict with what I was saying.

[Heather Moorland]

You are what's known as a transvestite.Wich you base on what?

[BellaBellucci]

... not worth my time to explain.

~BB~

[doctor screw]

... not worth my time to explain.

~BB~

Bella,you did kinda come off as a asshole.To be fair:yingyang:

[BellaBellucci]

Bella,you did kinda come off as a asshole.To be fair:yingyang:

What's your point? :?

~BB~

[doctor screw]

What's your point? :?

~BB~

That your comments were rude(telling her she was not a transsexual,because she wasn't sexually appealing in your eyes),aka you're a asshole(in this situation).No offense:Bowdown:

[BellaBellucci]

That your comments were rude(telling her she was not a transsexual,because she wasn't sexually appealing in your eyes),aka you're a asshole(in this situation).No offense:Bowdown:

That's not really what I was saying, but you're right. I'm an asshole, bitch, slut, whore... wait, what?! But seriously, I can be mean. I can be nice too, though.

So I still fail to see your point. Did you want me to change or something? :lol:

~BB~

[Heather Moorland]

... not worth my time to explain.
What did I do to you?
Is it because I go against the mainstream of the trangender community and use the word Shemale? Is it because my not feeling any "rewiering" from HRT made you insecure of your own transsexuality?

[BellaBellucci]

What did I do to you?
Is it because I go against the mainstream of the trangender community and use the word Shemale? Is it because my not feeling any "rewiering" from HRT made you insecure of your own transsexuality?

It's because you're delusional and that's not a good look for transsexuals as we try to go mainstream. :geek:

~BB~

[Heather Moorland]

It's because you're delusional and that's not a good look for transsexuals as we try to go mainstream. :geek:
look honny! I live 24/7 as a woman (or a transgenderperson trying to blend in) You don't have any idea how I dress in my every day life. I do pass because I try to look like a mainstream woman.
Well this forum is different by its very nature. It's not mainstream to be on a forum like this, let alone an escort nor a pornactor. I tell you girl, your pictures on this forum looks no more mainstream than mine!

[FreddieGomez]

look honny! I live 24/7 as a woman (or a transgenderperson trying to blend in) You don't have any idea how I dress in my every day life. I do pass because I try to look like a mainstream woman.
Well this forum is different by its very nature. It's not mainstream to be on a forum like this, let alone an escort nor a pornactor. I tell you girl, your pictures on this forum looks no more mainstream than mine!

from the pics on your site you dont look like you pass as a woman.

[asianphoenixx]

Being a transgender is much deeper than just being passable or not Freddie.

I'm sad that we always encounter fights like this.

I'm an underdog...so i can see clearly Heather's point of view and I definitely think she is transgender, no matter how she looks.

Do we have to pass or to fulfill certain look to become transsexual?

I don't think so.

[doctor screw]

Being a transgender is much deeper than just being passable or not Freddie.

I'm sad that we always encounter fights like this.

I'm an underdog...so i can see clearly Heather's point of view and I definitely think she is transgender, no matter how she looks.

Do we have to pass or to fulfill certain look to become transsexual?

I don't think so.

This is the point,that I was trying to get across.

[asianphoenixx]

This is the point,that I was trying to get across.

thank you:)

Please be tolerant towards other people/other tgirls
Nobody has the right to insist on something that is so broad as transgenderism.
There is no exactly "right" or "wrong" answer on this subject.

[Heather Moorland]

from the pics on your site you dont look like you pass as a woman.
No I do not claim that I do that (ok the word pass should have been in quotes) I am aware that I don't pass a closer inspection. I don't have any delutions there. And yes am I going for plasticsurgery? deffinetly when I have the mony. Does that mean i am a transvestite? no absolutely not

[Heather Moorland]

Besides my pictures are really me. They are not photoshoped ;-)

[Ben]

exactly...You can choose to call yourself what ever you want, but it doesn't mean you are. You are either born a transsexual or you aren't. This isn't a choice. Cross dressers can wear a wig and call themselves a "tranny" or a pretend they are one of us all they want. It doesn't mean they are anything more than just another boy with a wig or a cross dresser.

I honestly find it offensive for a crossdresser to pretend they are a transsexual. At the end of the day, they take off their wig and can go back to living as a man or they can cut their hair and be a boy again while those of us who were born this way and didn't ask to be like this know that this is how its going to be for the rest of our lives.

Interesting. Thanks Amy.

[rydermorrison]

It not about "passing" or not "passing".. its about how a person feels, and how they present themselves to the world. If a person claims to be a transsexual but then turns around and refers to themselves as a "sissy" and a "shemale" then that person is delusional and probably could benefit from some therapy to help figure themselves out. The words "sissy" and "shemale" are male utilized vernacular. This person is obviously caught up in a fetish that is motivated by testosterone... imho :)

[Ben]

It not about "passing" or not "passing".. its about how a person feels, and how they present themselves to the world. If a person claims to be a transsexual but then turns around and refers to themselves as a "sissy" and a "shemale" then that person is delusional and probably could benefit from some therapy to help figure themselves out. The words "sissy" and "shemale" are male utilized vernacular. This person is obviously caught up in a fetish that is motivated by testosterone... imho :)

Interesting point: "... it's about how a person feels, and how they present themselves to the world."
Thanks Ryder.

[jessicamoore]

Hormones n implants dont define if your ts its your mind

thos things are to make you look more of a women alot of ts look so much like girls hormones maybe limit for her

[asianphoenixx]

It not about "passing" or not "passing".. its about how a person feels, and how they present themselves to the world. If a person claims to be a transsexual but then turns around and refers to themselves as a "sissy" and a "shemale" then that person is delusional and probably could benefit from some therapy to help figure themselves out. The words "sissy" and "shemale" are male utilized vernacular. This person is obviously caught up in a fetish that is motivated by testosterone... imho :)

I guess English is not her mother tongue.

Besides, she is trying to sell her service thus promoting the word "sissy" and "shemale".

However, I agree that those term are derogatory.

Gosh...why am I still here?

Time to enjoy London now!:dancing:

[rydermorrison]

Hormones n implants dont define if your ts its your mind

thos things are to make you look more of a women alot of ts look so much like girls hormones maybe limit for her

i disagree.. its all about what a person's motivation is. If someone is trans then imo they'd logically want to change their chemical makeup to be as identical to a natal woman's as possible. Thus, they would take female hormones. If that person cannot take hormones due to medical reasons then thats not their fault and its out of their control. That doesnt change their motivation. They were just dealt a bad hand. I feel terrible for ppl in that situation and to me they are indeed transexxuals. Whether or not they are pretty is beyond the point. If someone doesnt want or abstains from taking hormones just because... then they are only deluding themselves if they think they are transexxuals/women. They still have an abundance of testosterone in their bodies and will act and be motivated as such. We refer to them as "woman" out of courtesy, but the truth is they are still men. in mind and in body...

[BellaBellucci]

Besides my pictures are really me. They are not photoshoped ;-)

I'd certainly hope not. Yikes! :lol:

~BB~

[rydermorrison]

I guess English is not her mother tongue.

Besides, she is trying to sell her service thus promoting the word "sissy" and "shemale".

However, I agree that those term are derogatory.

Gosh...why am I still here?

Time to enjoy London now!:dancing:


Yea i guess u could say that about the term "shemale" but i feel like any one who would promote themselves as a "sissy" is undeniably saying to the world "I am a man and I want to be humiliated". Its a fetish and we've all seen it a gazillion times... Now go enjoy your day beofre its too late!! :)

[Heather Moorland]

It not about "passing" or not "passing".. its about how a person feels, and how they present themselves to the world. If a person claims to be a transsexual but then turns around and refers to themselves as a "sissy" and a "shemale" then that person is delusional and probably could benefit from some therapy to help figure themselves out. The words "sissy" and "shemale" are male utilized vernacular. This person is obviously caught up in a fetish that is motivated by testosterone... imho :)
So thats what its about? It maybe never occured to you that the word "sissy" is playing on the derogatory meaning of a person who fails to live up to the expectations of being a real man? Couldn't it be that what my signature means is that failing to be a man (the 7 wonder of the world according to men) is realy somting that takes curage?
And no I do not say that I am a fetish sissy! ;-)

As for the word "Shemale"
It is somthing I only use on this forum and when I sell sex. Ok some of you dont like it. So what. I dont care if some people find it derogatory, its what the industry call people like us. Even this forum is called "Guide to Shemales and Transsexuals" If you don't like the word. Stay away from this forum!

[rydermorrison]

So thats what its about? It maybe never occured to you that the word "sissy" is playing on the derogatory meaning of a person who fails to live up to the expectations of being a real man? Couldn't it be that what a my signature means that failing to be a man (the 7 wonder of the world according to men) is realy somting that takes curage?

As for the word "Shemale"
It is somthing I only use on this forum and when I sell sex. Ok some of you dont like it. So what. I dont care if some people find it derogatory, its what the industry call people like us. Even this forum is called "Guide to Shemales and Transsexuals" If you don't like the word. Stay away from this forum!

It certainly takes courage to be a sissy. But a sissy by definition is an effeminate male. A transsexual would never promote themselves as such..

[BellaBellucci]

So thats what its about? It maybe never occured to you that the word "sissy" is playing on the derogatory meaning of a person who fails to live up to the expectations of being a real man? Couldn't it be that what a my signature means that failing to be a man (the 7 wonder of the world according to men) is realy somting that takes curage?

As for the word "Shemale"
It is somthing I only use on this forum and when I sell sex. Ok some of you dont like it. So what. I dont care if some people find it derogatory, its what the industry call people like us. Even this forum is called "Guide to Shemales and Transsexuals" If you don't like the word. Stay away from this forum!

She's right. You're wrong. 'Sissy' is a fetish word. 'Shemale' is a sex word, sure, and it's one that we all have varying opinions about, but putting it on your profile, with no qualifier by the way, just 'shemale,' on a TS board is redundant. If you have to use it to signify that you aren't a transvestite, then it's highly likely that you are.

None of us here are stupid. We're transsexual women who have fully emerged from the other side of the transition tunnel. Your lack of understanding of that process and the terminology inherent pretty much proves that you're happy living in the middle of it, which is fine, but that's where you are, no matter what you say. You shouting the word 'shemale' from there to those outside of the tunnel tells us everything we need to know about you - that you're trying way too hard to take credit for that which you haven't accomplished.

Now just stop before you further embarrass yourself. Some of us girls here are the best in the business at this. We can spot a phony from space. :geek:

~BB~

[robertlouis]

Being a transgender is much deeper than just being passable or not Freddie.

I'm sad that we always encounter fights like this.

I'm an underdog...so i can see clearly Heather's point of view and I definitely think she is transgender, no matter how she looks.

Do we have to pass or to fulfill certain look to become transsexual?

I don't think so.


Like I said several pages back, men have nothing to contribute to this thread that's likely to be of any value. Thank you Freddie for proving it.

[Heather Moorland]

It certainly takes courage to be a sissy. But a sissy by definition is an effeminate male. A transsexual would never promote themselves as such..No but a man would use that word about a transsexual.

[doctor screw]

Like I said several pages back, men have nothing to contribute to this thread that's likely to be of any value. Thank you Freddie for proving it.

Look at what you started,this all happened because you were the first guy to post in here,lol.

[rydermorrison]

No but a man would use that word about a transsexual.

not really.. atleast ive never met one that did.. but if you think so. wouldnt that kind of prove my point?

[BellaBellucci]

No but a man would use that word about a transsexual.

No. Only transvestites and other fetishists use that word.

~BB~

[Heather Moorland]

She's right. You're wrong. 'Sissy' is a fetish word.
No you are wrong. Sissy is originally a derogatory word about a person who is born male but on the inside dont have what it taks to be a man. The fetish meanin only derived later. In danish the word sissy is "tøsedreng" which literaly means girlish boy. My signature is a translation of that though that I would agree that the fetish connotation is a bit unfortunate.


'Shemale' is a sex word, sure, and it's one that we all have varying opinions about, but putting it on your profile, with no qualifier by the way, just 'shemale,' on a TS board is redundant. If you have to use it to signify that you aren't a transvestite, then it's highly likely that you are.

I use it to signify that I am not a male trannylover.

[Heather Moorland]

No. Only transvestites and other fetishists use that word.
Now you are being assertive

[BellaBellucci]

No you are wrong. Sissy is originally a derogatory word about a person who is born male but on the inside dont have what it taks to be a man. The fetish meanin only derived later. In danish the word sissy is "tøsedreng" which literaly means girlish boy. My signature is a translation of that though that I would agree that the fetish connotation is a bit unfortunate.


I use it to signify that I am not a male trannylover.

You know what I mean. Don't try to change the context.

And if you're a 'girlish boy,' then you're still a boy. :geek:


I use it to signify that I am not a male trannylover.

Methinks the 'wannabe lady' doth protest too much.

~BB~

[rydermorrison]

by your own admission, sissy means "girlish boy". Why would a transsexual want to be seen as such? the answer is that they most definitely would not. Its not really about at what point in transition you are. As I said before, its about what your motivation is. I can tell you are motivated by testosterone and I dont know how you can dispute your maleness when you're describing yourself as being male. Being effeminate doesn't make you a woman..

[Heather Moorland]

if you're a 'girlish boy,' then you're still a boy. You where born with a dick Who is suffering from delutions here?

[BellaBellucci]

You where born with a dick Who is suffering from delutions here?

If I was male-minded and had it removed, wouldn't I still be a man? Yeah. That's what I thought.

I'm done wasting my time with you. Have a nice life.

~BB~

[TsVanessa69]

from the pics on your site you dont look like you pass as a woman.
well for somebody who does not even date trans woman, how the fuck do you think you can say who passes or does not pass. you are an outsider looking in, nothing more nothing less. a tool. some of us may not pass as a female, but does not change the fact that we are woman. we are not females. we are trans, our gender is just as valid as yours. you may pass as a man by looks, but thats as far as it goes. so lets not go on with this passing bullshit. I don't pass, but that didnt stop my flow or my life. I didn't miss out on shit by not passing. My dudes are sexy, my money always flows, my home is mine, my credit score is above good. I can also get pussy if I wanted it, even pussy you couldn't get. I am educted, respected in the real world, outside the computer, on the 6 in da Bronx or walking down Roosevelt in Queens, with my dude holding my hand.

[rydermorrison]

yea im done too.. laterrrrrzzz :P

[Heather Moorland]

by your own admission, sissy means "girlish boy". Why would a transsexual want to be seen as such?
My signature does not say that I am a sissy let alone fetishist. It says; "ok you guys who think, that we who are born in a male body with a female mind don't have the curage to be a mand; well think again it takes much more curage than you can ever imagine." Am I cutting it out in cardbord? as we say in Denmark. Iguess it takes even more curage to try to be funny in a kind of subtle way when other transpersons is around.

[MdR Dave]

Look at what you started,this all happened because you were the first guy to post in here,lol.

I may have actually earned that one- but I promise all I did was ask Bella to school me on something. Nothing contentious.

Now, about your title. . . Evon is actually the next future ex-Mrs. Me!

[Silcc69]

well for somebody who does not even date trans woman, how the fuck do you think you can say who passes or does not pass. You are an outsider looking in, nothing more nothing less. A tool. Some of us may not pass as a female, but does not change the fact that we are woman. We are not females. We are trans, our gender is just as valid as yours. You may pass as a man by looks, but thats as far as it goes. So lets not go on with this passing bullshit. I don't pass, but that didnt stop my flow or my life. I didn't miss out on shit by not passing. My dudes are sexy, my money always flows, my home is mine, my credit score is above good. I can also get pussy if i wanted it, even pussy you couldn't get. I am educted, respected in the real world, outside the computer, on the 6 in da bronx or walking down roosevelt in queens, with my dude holding my hand.


preach!!!!!!!!!

[AmyDaly]

I am not a female. we are trans, our gender is just as valid as yours. .

Fixed.

You may not be female, but I am.

[Sacha]

Personally... I think it's all bullshit: because it's all in the mind - and, moreover, how you relate to the person you are with - simple as that

i.e. I have been with TGs who (for the most obsessive/"retentive") would perhaps somewhere along the line portray features that weren't what the (F*ck Off!) "purist" would decry as "sufficiently" feminine...

Well - I couldn't give a Damn... because all that matters for me is that when I was with "said person" it was clear to both of us that she was the woman... and I was the man.

How we related to our own and each others' genders is all that mattered... get it?

What part of that do people not understand?

Let me put it into perspective: I am 6'0" tall, weigh 205lbs (14.5 Stone for the Brits) at only 12% bodyfat and more or less am "built" (cos I train hard in the gym and other things, such as 1000LBS leg press for 16 Reps)... and here I am with a girl who weighs maybe 10Lbs more than me and who is 6'2" - and trust me between what we had together, there was no doubting for her (or for me) that I was the boy and she was the girl....

The spirit/energy is 10 times more important than the stupid "small print"...

You know who you are (essentially) ... so you just be that person --- and the chemistry does the rest...

In these terms, if you understand me well enough - the need for "passable" (read "reassurance" about your sexuality) becomes QUITE Obsolete...

Try it?

[kittyKaiti]

Fixed.

You may not be female, but I am.

:iagree: :Bowdown:

[Sacha]

Oh, and one more thing... Chrissy Snow (for me at least) kind of proves the point...

She was born, more or less, transgendered... and is one of the sexiest, most desireable "non GG" Girls that I have ever set eyes on......

I am not sure if she has had implants recently (I have only seen older vids of her) but I am sure she didn't need additional hormones to make her a woman... she already was - same as ANYONE who is a soul who was born in to the wrong birth gender... perhaps it's easier cos her case was somewhat more obvious... but, nevermind, anyone else who has experienced the same as her (even if they dont "look as womanly")... it's JUST the same.

That's the way it is for me... enough said

[BellaBellucci]

The spirit/energy is 10 times more important than the stupid "small print"...

Ahh, but the 'small print' is an expression of the spirit energy. When someone presents ambiguous expression and energy, it's because their spirit gender is ambiguous, which means, by definition, that they are not a woman, particularly if they have to keep insisting that they are.

I don't have a problem with CD/TV people. I have a problem with them intentionally misleading people about their true gender identity.

~BB~

[rydermorrison]

Fixed.

You may not be female, but I am.

cosign :)

[Sacha]

Ahh, but the 'small print' is an expression of the spirit energy. When someone presents ambiguous expression and energy, it's because their spirit gender is ambiguous, which means, by definition, that they are not a woman, particularly if they have to keep insisting that they are.

I don't have a problem with CD/TV people. I have a problem with them intentionally misleading people about their true gender identity.

~BB~

Understand what you say... and I agree cos like most human beings (regardless of gender, ok?) ... NOBODY likes to feel we've been taken for a "ride" (well, in the main, at least not one we didn't want to be taken on...)

I am smart enough most times to figure out if someone isn't being authentic with me... and that will be enough of a turn off for me to end the possibility of any further progression in the situation... however, I do see what you mean.

I also know that there was a girl recently "denounced" here in Spain for deceiving men in "that" manner... and, again, I will agree with you that this is dishonest - it's got NOTHING to do with gender, or whether I like TGs or not...

My final/fundamental point is that I am saying that I CAN be with a TG (and enjoy being with her in the fullest possible sense of the word) and it would not necessarily matter, at all, whether she had hormone therapy OR a tit-job...

If she occurs for me as a woman... then she IS a woman

[BellaBellucci]

If she occurs for me as a woman... then she IS a woman

... to you. That's not a judgment, just a statement of fact. :geek:

~BB~

[Sacha]

Ahh, but the 'small print' is an expression of the spirit energy. When someone presents ambiguous expression and energy, it's because their spirit gender is ambiguous, which means, by definition, that they are not a woman, particularly if they have to keep insisting that they are.

I don't have a problem with CD/TV people. I have a problem with them intentionally misleading people about their true gender identity.

~BB~


... to you. That's not a judgment, just a statement of fact. :geek:

~BB~

Yes, that's right... it's got nothing to do with how I judge it (if I have to judge it then I shouldn't be free enough to have fun in the first place)... so the reality is how it actually occurs for me, until something proves me otherwise

[Sacha]

Yes, that's right... it's got nothing to do with how I judge it (if I have to judge it then I shouldn't be free enough to have fun in the first place)... so the reality is how it actually occurs for me, until something proves me otherwise

oh, and that's got nothing to do with what the genetic gender is...

[robertlouis]

It strikes me that the tgirl sisterhood is just as fractious and bitchy as any other. You have to conform to someone elses' standard all the time, your own simply isn't good enough.

Tia made a plea for tolerance and mutual support a while back. Not much evidence of that here. Shame.

[BellaBellucci]

Yes, that's right... it's got nothing to do with how I judge it (if I have to judge it then I shouldn't be free enough to have fun in the first place)... so the reality is how it actually occurs for me, until something proves me otherwise

But you already said that you judge.


If she occurs for me as a woman... then she IS a woman

Sounds like a requirement to me.

And while I applaud your respect for genuine trans-people, I deplore your ignorance to the dumb things that the wannabes do and say.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Yes, that's right... it's got nothing to do with how I judge it (if I have to judge it then I shouldn't be free enough to have fun in the first place)... so the reality is how it actually occurs for me, until something proves me otherwise

I just realized that I think you misunderstood me. My statement was one of fact. Yours was a statement of fact about your opinion. :geek: :lol:


It strikes me that the tgirl sisterhood is just as fractious and bitchy as any other. You have to conform to someone elses' standard all the time, your own simply isn't good enough.

Tia made a plea for tolerance and mutual support a while back. Not much evidence of that here. Shame.

There is no sisterhood. That's the part you're not understanding. And if there was, transsexuals certainly wouldn't share it with 'part-timers' and accept their insistent false equivalency. What would we stand to gain other than ridicule? Thanks, but we already get enough of that.

And you wonder why there's no support. Tolerance is a two way street. How about tolerating our right to not identify with CD/TV?

~BB~

[Jericho]

tgirl sisterhood

That reminds me, anyone see Mythbusters last night.... :whistle:

[Sacha]

But you already said that you judge.



Sounds like a requirement to me.

And while I applaud your respect for genuine trans-people, I deplore your ignorance to the dumb things that the wannabes do and say.

~BB~

"Ignorance", for want of a better word... may be only down to lack of exposure to the wrong kind of people...

I was always brought up to believe differently.

Wannabes are like Walter Mitty... for me they don't register... because action speaks louder than words (which is, sadly, as true as the statement that "Money Talks, Bullshit Walks")...

BTW... there's nothing wrong with someone being a Wannabe... who's that fit to judge? besides, dreams give us the vision to apply the intention to, with good hard work... Life doesn't owe you your glory you have to go out and see it ... or as my Great Grandmother used to say: "Never think that the world owes you a living!"

But, I digress, Bella, and am curious to know:

Exactly what type of a wannabee, here, were you referring to?

[BellaBellucci]

That reminds me, anyone see Mythbusters last night.... :whistle:

I'm right here, baby. I'm the only mythbuster you need. :dancing: :fuckin:

Oh yeah, and I even have breasts. :-D


there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to be a Wannabe...

You're right. The problem is presenting yourself as the finished product if you do. It's a straight up lie.

~BB~

[robertlouis]

There is no sisterhood. That's the part you're not understanding. And if there was, transsexuals certainly wouldn't share it with 'part-timers' and accept their insistent false equivalency. What would we stand to gain other than ridicule? Thanks, but we already get enough of that.

And you wonder why there's no support. Tolerance is a two way street. How about tolerating our right to not identify with CD/TV?

~BB~

That's interesting, Bella. Are you saying that it's basically every girl for herself? I'm certainly aware of LGBT groups where tgirls at every stage of transition from the first tentative mary jane steps all the way through to grs attend together, although I do recognise a big difference between that and cd's who reach their goal of feeling good in women's clothing and leave it at that.

They will always be guys with a kink, but I'm thinking more of the scared kid on the first steps. Given some of the stridency that's been voiced in this thread, would the first instinct be to embrace or to reject?

[asianphoenixx]

I just realized that I think you misunderstood me. My statement was one of fact. Yours was a statement of fact about your opinion. :geek: :lol:



There is no sisterhood. That's the part you're not understanding. And if there was, transsexuals certainly wouldn't share it with 'part-timers' and accept their insistent false equivalency. What would we stand to gain other than ridicule? Thanks, but we already get enough of that.

And you wonder why there's no support. Tolerance is a two way street. How about tolerating our right to not identify with CD/TV?

~BB~

Now..you make me a little excited....

Tell me know why do you think I am a CD?
And why do you think that you are more woman than me?

[Sacha]

You're right. The problem is presenting yourself as the finished product if you do. It's a straight up lie.

~BB~

Well, we agree here 100%... deception in my books is tantamount to theft... just like the dickheads in the gym I go to who use all the tricks in the book (here in Spain) to look "buff/diesel" but haven't really done the gym time that they should have done to look this good authentically... and then I come along and out bench them by 100LBS and they have these confused expressions on their faces because (although I admit I look buff myself) I DON'T LOOK LIKE the F-Ing BORG...

And as I get of the bench I find myself smulgly telling them to start training properly and also that "You are not what you think you are... but: what you think = what you are"

We all hate fakes, Bella, so i get your point in this respect and I'm duly in your court on that one...

[robertlouis]

Now..you make me a little excited....

Tell me know why do you think I am a CD?
And why do you think that you are more woman than me?

Hi Tia, your posts on this thread make me even more determined to see you next time you're in the Uk or if our paths should cross somewhere else.

I'm really saddened by the backbiting, even if there is an element of logic behind it.

[BellaBellucci]

That's interesting, Bella. Are you saying that it's basically every girl for herself? I'm certainly aware of LGBT groups where tgirls at every stage of transition from the first tentative mary jane steps all the way through to grs attend together, although I do recognise a big difference between that and cd's who reach their goal of feeling good in women's clothing and leave it at that.

They will always be guys with a kink, but I'm thinking more of the scared kid on the first steps. Given some of the stridency that's been voiced in this thread, would the first instinct be to embrace or to reject?

I'm saying the goal of the so-called transgender movement is the same as every other movement throughout time: it's about acceptance for all people. The idea is, 'if you can accept them, why can't you accept us?' But that doesn't make us the same.

I can accept people for who they are, but not who they want me to think they are. Beyond that, without exception, it's absolutely every girl or group of girls for themselves, yes. It's like high school in that it's a diverse group of people, within it varying degrees of commonality, that has one goal: graduation. Some do graduate, some drop out, but despite there being only those two inevitable results, there are many paths along the way, and they don't always cross. Some never cross at all.

So one similarity ('transgenderism,' as opposed to the more specific 'transsexual) does not make up for the enormous differences between the gender expression of a transsexual and that of a CD/TV and the differing paths that people each take to find their true gender identity.

And yes, sometimes, after all that exploration, it's still male, clothing notwithstanding. Why go though all that just to continue to deny your true self? It just hurts everyone.

~BB~

[asianphoenixx]

Hi Tia, your posts on this thread make me even more determined to see you next time you're in the Uk or if our paths should cross somewhere else.

I'm really saddened by the backbiting, even if there is an element of logic behind it.

The backbiting is a sign of dissatisfaction and frustration.

To insist of being a transsexual in certain ways is also misleading.
To be trans is not a choice..is a destiny, thus we are talking about our souls here. Therefore, with or without surgery or hormones..if you have a female soul...you are a trans. And..i have that soul...though...i still retain some boyish charm in me.

I am an all natural trans...yes, i'm not a woman.., but it does not mean i am less feminine and less attractive than a woman. For some men...they think i even more so. And that's the fact.

[BellaBellucci]

Now..you make me a little excited....

Tell me know why do you think I am a CD?
And why do you think that you are more woman than me?

I don't know you. Are you a CD?

~BB~

[asianphoenixx]

IMHO...you look more CD than me.
and I'm being honest

[BellaBellucci]

IMHO...you look more CD than me.
and I'm being honest

Whatever. Are you a CD?

~BB~

[robertlouis]

I'm saying the goal of the so-called transgender movement is the same as every other movement throughout time: it's about acceptance for all people. The idea is, 'if you can accept them, why can't you accept us?' But that doesn't make us the same.

I can accept people for who they are, but not who they want me to think they are. Beyond that, without exception, it's absolutely every girl or group of girls for themselves, yes. It's like high school in that it's a diverse group of people, within it varying degrees of commonality, that has one goal: graduation. Some do graduate, some drop out, but despite there being only those two inevitable results, there are many paths along the way, and they don't always cross. Some never cross at all.

So one similarity ('transgenderism,' as opposed to the more specific 'transsexual) does not make up for the enormous differences between the gender expression of a transsexual and that of a CD/TV and the differing paths that people each take to find their true gender identity.

And yes, sometimes, after all that exploration, it's still male, clothing notwithstanding. Why go though all that just to continue to deny your true self? It just hurts everyone.

~BB~

I can agree with just about all of that, Bella. The one thing that nags me still, however, is the notion that somehow "she" can't be in your gang because she doesn't meet the necessary criteria. Forgive me, but is it because she /they haven't made sufficient sacrifice or progress to qualify?

I'm not picking a fight here (I only do that with arrogant cockhounds lol), I am simply genuinely curious to get to the bottom of this issue.

[Sacha]

I am an all natural trans...yes, i'm not a woman.., but it does not mean i am less feminine and less attractive than a woman. For some men...they think i even more so. And that's the fact.

This is the point I was making before... it was how it occured for me...

G-d strike me down for those that judge me for being deluded... because in my mind there is nothing "fake" about this...

.... the fact remains that the woman that was more of a woman than any other woman I have ever met in my life... WAS a trans...

So... how do we solve that? A lobotomy, or maybe we need Bachman, or "Herb" to run for president to "fix" the problem???

Or maybe we just open our minds and tolerate more .....

[asianphoenixx]

no need to be redundant. read my explanation from page 4

[doctor screw]

I don't know you. Are you a CD?

~BB~

Bella,LEAVE MY NEW FUTURE WIFE ALONE!!!!NOW!!!lol

[BellaBellucci]

I can agree with just about all of that, Bella. The one thing that nags me still, however, is the notion that somehow "she" can't be in your gang because she doesn't meet the necessary criteria. Forgive me, but is it because she /they haven't made sufficient sacrifice or progress to qualify?

I'm not picking a fight here (I only do that with arrogant cockhounds lol), I am simply genuinely curious to get to the bottom of this issue.

It was because 'she' is a fetishist. It's not just that we don't believe 'she's' TS, it's that while 'she's' insisting that 'she' is transsexual, 'she' portrays herself as a male fetishist (sissy).

Why is that a problem you ask? Do you have any idea how many TS 'admirers' wish they were TS? How many pretend to be TS to get closer to the object of their sexual affections? And deep down they probably are gender questioning, and that sucks, but if they chose not to act on those feelings, then guess what: they're not TS.

~BB~

[tsadriana]

bella is ts not cd for fuck sacken ,cds are men with hair chest .i hate thisd labels aND i hate men who cvalm themdself feminine

[BellaBellucci]

Or maybe we just open our minds and tolerate more .....

I actually think I've been fairly tolerant. That doesn't mean that someone else can cram acceptance of something that they're not down my throat in the name of political correctness. I'm under no obligation to give anybody that.


no need to be redundant. read my explanation from page 4

In that case, a 'pretty femboy,' is still a man.

~BB~

[tsadriana]

im ts ,sammi3e,liberty,bella,kelly,evon,debra look at us not men dress in womaqn never ever for eternity.

[robertlouis]

This is the point I was making before... it was how it occured for me...

G-d strike me down for those that judge me for being deluded... because in my mind there is nothing "fake" about this...

.... the fact remains that the woman that was more of a woman than any other woman I have ever met in my life... WAS a trans...

So... how do we solve that? A lobotomy, or maybe we need Bachman, or "Herb" to run for president to "fix" the problem???

Or maybe we just open our minds and tolerate more .....

:iagree::iagree::iagree: All of which tends towards the view that attitude and outlook, and above all self-perception, are the strongest indicators of femininity in a transwoman. The girl I'm thinking of was certainly pretty, but not outstanding. What she did have was a natural feminine charm and a healthy but not over-emphasised sexiness, and I knew then that I was with the most natural woman I had ever met.

This was in Singapore about six years ago, BTW.

[doctor screw]

im ts ,sammi3e,liberty,bella,kelly,evon,debra look at us not men dress in womaqn never ever for eternity.

I don't know anymore.If Tia's a Cd,I'm about to come out the fucking closet,lol.

[asianphoenixx]

I don't know you. Are you a CD?

~BB~


I actually think I've been fairly tolerant. That doesn't mean that someone else can cram acceptance of something that they're not down my throat in the name of political correctness. I'm under no obligation to give anybody that.



In that case, a 'pretty femboy,' is still a man.

~BB~

That's fine by me if you think that way. I don't really care about label though I'm sure the men will have different opinion.:)

Besides, I would rather be an attractive femboy with lots of male admirers and friends instead of being a bitchy woman without any men or friends

[asianphoenixx]

I don't know anymore.If Tia's a Cd,I'm about to come out the fucking closet,lol.

this is the perfect time to screw me...i'm fuming lol:jerkoff

[BellaBellucci]

That's fine by me if you think that way. I don't really care about label though I'm sure the men will have different opinion.:)

Besides, I would rather be an attractive femboys with lots of male admirers and friends instead of being a bitchy woman without any men or friends

Are those the only options? :lol:

For the record, I'm really not judging you personally. You look pretty enough to me. But you asked me to judge your own judgment of yourself. You can call yourself a femboy, or a fembot, or whatever you want, but if you do so, you need to understand that it makes you bi-gendered or third-gendered, not female-gendered. 'Female' is a consistent and quite distinct gender identity.

~BB~

[tsadriana]

if someone says that feminine ts is not ts just look in they pics if they have one and take the final conclusion.

[asianphoenixx]

Fair enough. Show me one sentence, me saying: i am a woman. NEVER!
I'm proud being myself.

As a told you before, and i'm being honest: some men perceive me for being more attractive than woman. I'm in heaven. I won't change a thing about me. I'm even affraid to take high dose of female hormones.

I'm just fine the way i'm.

[doctor screw]

this is the perfect time to screw me...i'm fuming lol:jerkoff

If you weren't across the ocean,I would do despicable/filthy things to you,mami.

lol

[BellaBellucci]

Fair enough. Show me one sentence, me saying: i am a woman. NEVER!
I'm proud being myself.

As a told you before, and i'm being honest: some men perceive me for being more attractive than woman. I'm in heaven. I won't change a thing about me. I'm even affraid to take high dose of female hormones.

I'm just fine the way i'm.

Then my comments in this thread don't apply to you, do they silly? :lol:

~BB~

[tsadriana]

Why im sayng this is because they are part time and they wants to look just like a woman and because is imposible due to male figure they offwende the look of real ts or should i say jelouse.

[BellaBellucci]

Why im sayng this is because they are part time and they wants to look just like a woman and because is imposible due to male figure they offwende the look of real ts or should i say jelouse.

That's not always true either. I know plenty of gorgeous part-timers. :geek:

~BB~

[asianphoenixx]

Then my comments in this thread don't apply to you, do they silly? :lol:

~BB~

ok then, good night.

I'm done:(

[BellaBellucci]

ok then, good night.

I'm done:(

Aww. :(

If you're disappointed we could try to find something else to argue about. :lol:

~BB~

[asianphoenixx]

That's not always true either. I know plenty of gorgeous part-timers. :geek:

~BB~

And i'm not a part timer either. I'm always Tia Phoenixx in and out.
Thanks God..i'm relieved. Phew...LOL:dancing:

Good night now....no more fighting and judging...leave each of us alone.

The most important thing that we are happy with ourselves...that's all that matters

[Heather Moorland]

It was because 'she' is a fetishist. It's not just that we don't believe 'she's' TS, it's that while 'she's' insisting that 'she' is transsexual, 'she' portrays herself as a male fetishist (sissy).First I dont portray my selv as a "male fetishist sissy"

Second the question of lables and who is a genuine "transsexual" is all a matter of deffinition. I have seen that discussion also in Denmark and I tell you, Bella Lugoci, that to some of those I have discussed this subject with ealier, you do not qualify for being a transsexual either simply because you have a dick. Are you a donkey or a giraf or what are you. Another thing is that you have a sexlife. Acording to some, transsexuals are not soppose to have that and certainly not one that involves a dick. You are not transsexual. You are suffering from autogyophilia. You are so sexually obsessed with womens bodies that you have hijacked it for your self. That is what they would have told you.
Ofcause I will not say that about anyone because I would not want to be the judge of what you want to call your self. I would just hope that you would have had that same respect for others.

[BellaBellucci]

And i'm not a part timer either. I'm always Tia Phoenixx in and out.
Thanks God..i'm relieved. Phew...LOL:dancing:

Good night now....no more fighting and judging...leave each of us alone.

The most important thing that we are happy with ourselves...that's all that matters

Like I said, I respected you for your own self-identification, but in my view you're all woman. You're the one that said you weren't. :lol:

You're a nice lady, Tia Phoenixx.

~BB~

[robertlouis]

this is the perfect time to screw me...i'm fuming lol:jerkoff

I'm just getting into the car, Tia..... :dancing:

[asianphoenixx]

Let's face it: i have a dick.
No matter how hard i want to be a woman..but I'm NOT..I was not born as one.

Every of us should be proud about our own identity as trans. Women might not be necessarily more attractive..or feminine..or more appealing than us...you know...

Be ourselves...and be proud to be a tgirl.

If you want to be a woman...then fine...just chop your dick

[asianphoenixx]

I'm just getting into the car, Tia..... :dancing:

LOL..let's have orgy tonight.

Btw, my phone keeps ringing now.

[BellaBellucci]

First I dont portray my selv as a "male fetishist sissy"

Second the question of lables and who is a genuine "transsexual" is all a matter of deffinition. I have seen that discussion also in Denmark and I tell you, Bella Lugoci, that to some of those I have discussed this subject with ealier, you do not qualify for being a transsexual either simply because you have a dick.

It's true that I don't qualify as being biologically fully female, but being at my stage of transition, having a female name and identity and being legally female for all purposes except prison and marriage, I'm clearly very much a transsexual.


You are not transsexual. You are suffering from autogyophilia. You are so sexually obsessed with womens bodies that you have hijacked it for your self. That is what they would have told you.
Ofcause I will not say that about anyone because I would not want to be the judge of what you want to call your self. I would just hope that you would have had that same respect for others.

Did you really just invoke Ray Blanchard? That seals it for me. You're a self-hating male transvestite! :party:

I'mma sit back and watch the show now. Oh ladies! Where are you?! :lol:

http://www.popcorn-song.com/img/popcorn.gif

~BB~

[robertlouis]

If you want to be a woman...then fine...just chop your dick

Please don't try this at home, children. :geek:

[BellaBellucci]

If you want to be a woman...then fine...just chop your dick

I sort of agree. You're confusing the female sex with the female gender (woman).

~BB~

[tsadriana]

Are those the only options? :lol:

For the record, I'm really not judging you personally. You look pretty enough to me. But you asked me to judge your own judgment of yourself. You can call yourself a femboy, or a fembot, or whatever you want, but if you do so, you need to understand that it makes you bi-gendered or third-gendered, not female-gendered. 'Female' is a consistent and quite distinct gender identity.

~BB~
I don`t go for the part time.i go for the real thing bella.sorry but if u say that u help them more.i know what i have done to look how i look i wont allow a male with woman chlotes to say the he looks like me and thinks like me .:iagree:

[asianphoenixx]

I sort of agree. You're confusing the female sex with the female gender (woman).

~BB~

Does it matter?

If you think you are female gender-wise...but you still have a dick with you. I still won't say I'm a female..but again...that's just me.

But again, I respect each of us with our own opinion.
So if you think you are a woman although you still have a dick in you...that's fine by me...as long as you are comfortable with it.

But not for me, i will only say that i am a woman once i have my SRS. And i don't think it will happen very soon...since i truly enjoy myself as being a tgirl now.

[tsadriana]

I stud sincen from couples months that the gays dons`t get sex enough and just because of this they go for implant of silicone with wigg and call themself ts.shicking but very true .i do really want to put recording conversation here will affect the truly gay but this is the realitty gays dons`t ger get sex like ts so they go for options or ts or tv.

[BellaBellucci]

Does it matter?

If you think you are female gender-wise...but you still have a dick with you. I still won't say I'm a female..but again...that's just me.

But again, I respect each of us with our own opinion.
So if you think you are a woman although you still have a dick in you...that's fine by me...as long as you are comfortable with it.

But not for me, i will only say that i am a woman once i have my SRS. And i don't think it will happen very soon...since i truly enjoy myself as being a tgirl now.

To each their own, as they long as they don't hurt anyone. :cheers:

~BB~

[tsadriana]

Sorry gats but trhis is the real true idf this site will allow me to put here the conversation with a gay u will find the truth.i understand gay but they don`t know straghtish goes for girls and they knows that and what they think:with a wigg and heavy make-up priblem solve.i get what i want.and the blinds men beleve that

[tsadriana]

sorry for my grammar i was out and driking a bit as i dont drink to much.

[robertlouis]

Does it matter?

If you think you are female gender-wise...but you still have a dick with you. I still won't say I'm a female..but again...that's just me.

But again, I respect each of us with our own opinion.
So if you think you are a woman although you still have a dick in you...that's fine by me...as long as you are comfortable with it.

But not for me, i will only say that i am a woman once i have my SRS. And i don't think it will happen very soon...since i truly enjoy myself as being a tgirl now.

You are who you are and won't be categorised by anyone else.

I like that. :Bowdown:

[tsadriana]

sorry Roberto but a man who dress ocasionally can`t never be like me just because he feels as a trs few hours per day.

[Erika1487]

:smh at this thread ....It started off with honest responses, now it looks like any other HA tit for tat

[robertlouis]

sorry Roberto but a man who dress ocasionally can`t never be like me just because he feels as a trs few hours per day.

That wasn't what I was saying, Adriana, and neither was Tia. She's clearly comfortable and confident with who she is, that's all.

Otherwise I agree with you.

[robertlouis]

:smh at this thread ....It started off with honest responses, now it looks like any other HA tit for tat


Please don't tell me you're surprised, Erika! :whistle:

[Heather Moorland]

It's true that I don't qualify as being biologically fully female, but being at my stage of transition, having a female name and identity and being legally female for all purposes except prison and marriage, I'm clearly very much a transsexual. In your definition, but that is just your point of view. And thats ok you can have that as long as I can have mine.

[BellaBellucci]

sorry Roberto but a man who dress ocasionally can`t never be like me just because he feels as a trs few hours per day.

If you're talking about Tia, She said she's full time and I suspect she comes from a country that recognizes third gender. If I understand her position, it's more of a blurring of the line than a violation of it.

That's fine in Asia, but it they ever tried to pull that shit here in America, I'd be out there petitioning. Who the hell wants 'T' on their license? :lol:

~BB~

[Erika1487]

Please don't tell me you're surprised, Erika! :whistle:

lol no Robert I am not but, saddly this has become the M.O of the G.D forum.

[robertlouis]

Who the hell wants 'T' on their license? :lol:

~BB~

I spilled some on mine once. :geek:

[robertlouis]

lol no Robert I am not but, saddly this has become the M.O of the G.D fourm.

Yes, and with next to no input from the cockhound faction. Now that IS weird!

[robertlouis]

sorry for my grammar i was out and driking a bit as i dont drink to much.

But you're cute and funny when you're pissed. :)

[asianphoenixx]

If you're talking about Tia, She said she's full time and I suspect she comes from a country that recognizes third gender. If I understand her position, it's more of a blurring of the line than a violation of it.

That's fine in Asia, but it they ever tried to pull that shit here in America, I'd be out there petitioning. Who the hell wants 'T' on their license? :lol:

~BB~

that's true. I'm Asian and partly Thai.
And btw, i hate the term "full time" or "part time"
How can somebody be "full time" and "part time"?

Oh..i'm longing to have "T" on my license...seriously....I'm tired people treat me as a GG. I wish they know I'm NOT...especially the men LOL
I guess we are really different with this regards Bella.

But again, you are just blunt and strong.... so am I.

[onmyknees]

OK...I think we've established who is, and who is not a TS and who fits into the various sub categories. Thanks for the unanomous consent. I think I got it now !! :confused:

[BellaBellucci]

that's true. I'm Asian and partly Thai.
And btw, i hate the term "full time" or "part time"
How can somebody be "full time" and "part time"?

Oh..i'm longing to have "T" on my license...seriously.
I guess we are really different with this regards Bella.

But again, you are just blunt and strong.... so am I.

Yes you are. I like it. It's the wimps that can't handle an adult conversation without whining that piss me off. :lol:

Oh, and I have 'F' on my license as do many of the girls here in the US. So I have a question: if you could have the same thing out there, would you do that instead or still opt for 'T?'

~BB~

[asianphoenixx]

Yes you are. I like it. It's the wimps that can't handle an adult conversation without whining that piss me off. :lol:

Oh, and I have 'F' on my license as do many of the girls here in the US. So I have a question: if you could have the same thing out there, would you do that instead or still opt for 'T?'

~BB~

Don't you know my answer by now?

Of course T...i can get laid more easily that way LOL.

Joke!

Seriously, i still opt for "T" simply because that is the fact.

[robertlouis]

OK...I think we've established who is, and who is not a TS and who fits into the various sub categories. Thanks for the unanomous consent. I think I got it now !! :confused:

Don't hold your breath, omk.

Dons steel helmet and retreats to foxhole.....

[BellaBellucci]

Don't you know my answer by now?

Of course T...i can get laid more easily that way LOL.

Joke!

Seriously, i still opt for "T" simply because that is the fact.

I love your honesty. :)

~BB~

[kittyKaiti]

It's true that I don't qualify as being biologically fully female, but being at my stage of transition, having a female name and identity and being legally female for all purposes except prison and marriage, I'm clearly very much a transsexual.



Did you really just invoke Ray Blanchard? That seals it for me. You're a self-hating male transvestite! :party:

I'mma sit back and watch the show now. Oh ladies! Where are you?! :lol:

http://www.popcorn-song.com/img/popcorn.gif

~BB~

LOL I read his post and a bit of rage shot through my chest.... OH LAWDY :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :ignore:

[BellaBellucci]

LOL I read his post and a bit of rage shot through my chest.... OH LAWDY :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :ignore:

It get's better:


You sure know how to twist things. don't you?

Some people try to build a fanclub. I guess you are not that kind of people.

So now she didn't say it. :lol:

And while I'm back on this thread, I'd like to say that I find it hysterical that most CD/TV people will take pleasure in reminding us that many of us started as 'just CDs,' but these are the same people who stay that way and have no experience being TS. So how would they have any clue what they're talking about?

Time after time, girls have come to me after hormones and said, 'you know what Sarah? You were absolutely right. There's a huge difference. I see that now.'

~BB~

[MdR Dave]

OK...I think we've established who is, and who is not a TS and who fits into the various sub categories. Thanks for the unanomous consent. I think I
got it now !! :confused:

What say we fly Robert out here, rent a suite in Chicago or somewhere central to all those involved, and the three of us offer to make women out of all these girls?

Yeah, probably a bad idea!

*** backs away slowly***

[AmyDaly]

Time after time, girls have come to me before and after hormones and said, 'you know what Sarah? You were absolutely right. There's a huge difference. I see that now.'

~BB~

I think there is a lot of misinformation out there on hormones that gets spread by the gay community,drag queens, crossdressers etc. Years ago, I went on Entertainment tonight with Alexis Arquette. She told us off camera that she didn't want to take hormones because all her drag friends told her that it would make her unhealthy, fat, and just cause her problems with her body. Tried to tell her it was all not true, but I don't think it changed her mind.

[BellaBellucci]

I think there is a lot of misinformation out there on hormones that gets spread by the gay community,drag queens, crossdressers etc. Years ago, I went on Entertainment tonight with Alexis Arquette. She told us off camera that she didn't want to take hormones because all her drag friends told her that it would make her unhealthy, fat, and just cause her problems with her body. Tried to tell her it was all not true, but I don't think it changed her mind.

I was waiting for you to show up. Thoughts on the Blanchard statement?

~BB~

[onmyknees]

what say we fly robert out here, rent a suite in chicago or somewhere central to all those involved, and the three of us offer to make women out of all these girls?

Yeah, probably a bad idea!

*** backs away slowly***

lmfao

[Heather Moorland]

And while I'm back on this thread, I'd like to say that I find it hysterical that most CD/TV people will take pleasure in reminding us that many of us started as 'just CDs,' but these are the same people who stay that way and have no experience being TS. So how would they have any clue what they're talking about?
You know the funny thing is the Ts I know from Denmark that are just as hysterical as you are started out believing they were CD/TV. I bet you did that to.

[kittyKaiti]

It get's better:



So now she didn't say it. :lol:

And while I'm back on this thread, I'd like to say that I find it hysterical that most CD/TV people will take pleasure in reminding us that many of us started as 'just CDs,' but these are the same people who stay that way and have no experience being TS. So how would they have any clue what they're talking about?

Time after time, girls have come to me after hormones and said, 'you know what Sarah? You were absolutely right. There's a huge difference. I see that now.'

~BB~

They claim that but I never identified as a crossdresser and never called my transgender feelings some sort of CD fetish. It's just another ignorant statement from annoying jealous crossdressers.

[BellaBellucci]

You know the funny thing is the Ts I know from Denmark that are just as hysterical as you are started out believing they were CD/TV. I bet you did that to.

No, I didn't. I just jumped into transition. But you kinda just made my point. Thanks. :)

You're defending CD/TV because you are one, and now you're using your very status as an insult against me. You kinda can't have it both ways.

~BB~

[AmyDaly]

I was waiting for you to show up. Thoughts on the Blanchard statement?

~BB~

I don't even know where to begin. Not worth the trouble.

All of us know from a young age what we were meant to be and how we were supposed to be born. Its something you just know. If you don't ever experience that or know what I mean, you prolly aren't a transsexual. This thread has really run its course. I may have started out cross dressing, but I knew exactly where it was going and what I was since as long as I can remember.

[MdR Dave]

No, I didn't. I just jumped into transition. But you kinda just made my point. Thanks. :)

You're defending CD/TV because you are one, and now you're using your very status as an insult against me. You kinda can't have it both ways.

~BB~

Check and mate.

Whatcha gonna do with all that energy now, darlin'?

[BellaBellucci]

Check and mate.

Whatcha gonna do with all that energy now, darlin'?

Energy? Oh shit! I forgot to make coffee. I'm fading here. I was up early to take my son to school. Ugh!

~BB~

[MdR Dave]

Energy? Oh shit! I forgot to make coffee. I'm fading here. I was up early to take my son to school. Ugh!

~BB~
Dammit, Bella, that doesn't fit into my fantasy at all!

Ah well, if all else fails, there's always Palms.

Sometimes I think I only go so I can stop by and have a banana/nutella crepe down the street first.

[BellaBellucci]

Dammit, Bella, that doesn't fit into my fantasy at all!

Ah well, if all else fails, there's always Palms.

Sometimes I think I only go so I can stop by and have a banana/nutella crepe down the street first.

Fifty dolla. Make you holla?! :lol:

~BB~

[MdR Dave]

Fifty dolla. Make you holla?! :lol:

~BB~
Actually, the crepes are very reasonably priced.

Have a good night, BB.

[Heather Moorland]

You're defending CD/TV because you are one, and now you're using your very status as an insult against me. You kinda can't have it both ways.Am I defending CD/TV's ? How did you get that idea?
You may feel insulted by my status. I cant help that, but I am not going to change it, and you can think what you like. Good night.

[oifarang]

Fair enough. Show me one sentence, me saying: i am a woman. NEVER!
I'm proud being myself.

As a told you before, and i'm being honest: some men perceive me for being more attractive than woman. I'm in heaven. I won't change a thing about me. I'm even affraid to take high dose of female hormones.

I'm just fine the way i'm.

Tia is one of the most naturally feminine girls that post on here.

Bloody gorgeous.

[asianphoenixx]

Good morning London!

Thank you for your compliment Oilfarang. Let's get back to the topic..and here is my answer


The backbiting is a sign of dissatisfaction and frustration.

To insist of being a transsexual in certain ways is also misleading.
To be trans is not a choice..is a destiny, thus we are talking about our souls here. Therefore, with or without surgery or hormones..if you have a female soul...you are a trans. And..i have that soul...though...i still retain some boyish charm in me.

I am an all natural trans...yes, i'm not a woman.., but it does not mean i am less feminine and less attractive than a woman. For some men...they think i even more so. And that's the fact.

[asianphoenixx]

And here is my suggestion for all of different type of tgirls (including their motivation for the future) as stated on page 5 (or 4) if i'm not mistaken.
Cat fight literally does not help


"..regardless we're all sisters and we need support, do what is right for your life because at the end of the day you live for yourself and no one else!"

Perfect:)
tolerance is the key. Let's accept each of us with our own uniqueness and characteristics....we're indeed a big family

[asianphoenixx]

You are who you are and won't be categorised by anyone else.

I like that. :Bowdown:

thanks Robert!

[asianphoenixx]

You are who you are and won't be categorised by anyone else.

I like that. :Bowdown:

thanks Robert!
Be true and be happy with ourselves will open all doors.

We do not have to be the prettiest or the sexiest tgirl on earth

As long as we're happy with ourselves and comfortable with our own skin...all men will be just drooling over us LOL:jerkoff:jerkoff

Our lives will be much more bright and rewarding that way too

Peace,

Tia

Now, i'm going to do my walking around Central Park..yippppie!!!:dancing:

[Prospero]

Central park? What, are you back in New York? Do you mean Hyde Park? Should be beautiful today with all the autumn leaves.

x

[asianphoenixx]

Central park? What, are you back in New York? Do you mean Hyde Park? Should be beautiful today with all the autumn leaves.

x

Ups....yes i meant Hyde Park, just came back and it's so gorgeous there.

I can't wait to see you on Monday Prospero:)!

have a great weekend!

Tia

[alpha2117]

Simple answer is Yes to the original question in that by it's strict definition Transgender means - Appearing as, wishing to be considered as, or having undergone surgery to become a member of the opposite sex. That means tv's count.

Transsexual is a person who identifies themselves sexually entirely with the opposite sex. That means a 250lb truck driver could be a transsexual without ever taking a hormone or getting any surgery and a say someone like Lisa Lawer who eventually transitioned back and started a family probably wasn't.

I always wonder why people care so much about making boundries and putting people into strict groups. I'm fairly sure if you got 100 different TS girls into a survey you would get 100 slightly different answers to a whole range of questions about their sexuality. Just like you would 100 GG's. Human beings really aren't as stright forward and easy to define as people would like them to be.

Girls who top aren't TS
Girls who dont have tits aren't ts
You need to be on mones
You need to have your balls snipped
You need the full op
etc etc

I knew a girl who was flat as a tack because she simply couldn't take the mones because she had serious reactions to them when she did try. Didn't mean she wasn't transsexual in her head. She was slim so getting implants wasn't really feasible either. I'm sure some people would simply consider her a TV but if you knew her well enough you knew she was as much a TS as any other girl.

Honestly why do these topics keep coming up? It's not like anybodies opinion really means a damn to anyone but themselves about these things.

[TsVanessa69]

There are 2 types of people in this world, those that get it and those that don't. The sad part is that those that don't, never will. So I choose to deal with those that do.

[TsVanessa69]

That reminds me, anyone see Mythbusters last night.... :whistle:
this thread seems like it would make a good episode, I LOVE that show!!!

[EvonRose]

Simple answer is Yes to the original question in that by it's strict definition Transgender means - Appearing as, wishing to be considered as, or having undergone surgery to become a member of the opposite sex. That means tv's count.

Transsexual is a person who identifies themselves sexually entirely with the opposite sex. That means a 250lb truck driver could be a transsexual without ever taking a hormone or getting any surgery and a say someone like Lisa Lawer who eventually transitioned back and started a family probably wasn't.

I always wonder why people care so much about making boundries and putting people into strict groups. I'm fairly sure if you got 100 different TS girls into a survey you would get 100 slightly different answers to a whole range of questions about their sexuality. Just like you would 100 GG's. Human beings really aren't as stright forward and easy to define as people would like them to be.

Girls who top aren't TS
Girls who dont have tits aren't ts
You need to be on mones
You need to have your balls snipped
You need the full op
etc etc

I knew a girl who was flat as a tack because she simply couldn't take the mones because she had serious reactions to them when she did try. Didn't mean she wasn't transsexual in her head. She was slim so getting implants wasn't really feasible either. I'm sure some people would simply consider her a TV but if you knew her well enough you knew she was as much a TS as any other girl.

Honestly why do these topics keep coming up? It's not like anybodies opinion really means a damn to anyone but themselves about these things.

No you cannot use that excuse, there are always alternatives... if she truly wanted to look and be a woman she would have taken upon herself to see a doctor and they would have found alternatives there are hundreds!!! The real question is she probably didn't want implants and she probably didn't want to be on hormones...You can be a tg with or without hormones no doubt! But to be considered a Ts and not having hormones that is questionable... Ts is not the same as tg, a transsexual by terms also known as true transsexuals, is someone who is transex, trough hormones, surgery if needed, and srs and other types of therapy a transexual is considered a WOMAN. A transgender is quite different and you can be a tg with or without hormones trangender varies in term TG/TV/CD are all part of this group. Those who chose to stay or keep their penis is a transgender, and those who undergo the full surgery are transsexual, its very easy to mix this up.

I am a transsexual taking hormones since 12, fully developed as a female, lives a female 24/7, and is planning on a full srs in 2013.

[Gillian]

... and planning on a full srs in 2013.

None of my business I know, but are the reasons for waiting until 2013 clinical or financial?

[alpha2117]

No you cannot use that excuse, there are always alternatives... if she truly wanted to look and be a woman she would have taken upon herself to see a doctor and they would have found alternatives there are hundreds!!! The real question is she probably didn't want implants and she probably didn't want to be on hormones...You can be a tg with or without hormones no doubt! But to be considered a Ts and not having hormones that is questionable... Ts is not the same as tg, a transsexual by terms also known as true transsexuals, is someone who is transex, trough hormones, surgery if needed, and srs and other types of therapy a transexual is considered a WOMAN. A transgender is quite different and you can be a tg with or without hormones trangender varies in term TG/TV/CD are all part of this group. Those who chose to stay or keep their penis is a transgender, and those who undergo the full surgery are transsexual, its very easy to mix this up.

I am a transsexual taking hormones since 12, fully developed as a female, lives a female 24/7, and is planning on a full srs in 2013.

Sorry Evon but you're wrong here. (Apologies because I dont want to sound like I'm trying to be nasty)

You are defining Transsexual by an outer physical transformation but in terms of it's strict definition it's actually a mental state rather than a physical one

Transsexualism appears in the two major diagnostic manuals used by mental health professionals worldwide, the American Psychiatric Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psychiatric_Association)'s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disord ers) (DSM, currently in its fourth edition) and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Statistical_Classification_of_Diseas es_and_Related_Health_Problems) (ICD, currently in its tenth edition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10)). The ICD-10 incorporates transsexualism, dual role transvestism and gender identity disorder of childhood into its Gender identity disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder) category, and defines transsexualism as "[a] desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex."[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism#cite_note-ICD10TS-3) The DSM does not distinguish between gender identity disorder and transsexualism, and defines Transvestic fetishism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism) as a separate phenomenon which may co-occur with transsexualism. The DSM diagnosis requires four components:[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism#cite_note-DSM-IV-TRans-4)


A desire or insistence that one is of the opposite biological sex (that is not due to a perceived advantage of being the other sex)
Evidence of persistent discomfort with, and perceived inappropriateness of the individual's biological sex
The individual is not Intersex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality) (although a diagnosis of GID Not Otherwise Specified is available, which enables intersex people who reject their sex-assignment to access transsexual treatments)
Evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in work or social life.

So by strict definition someone from a country where they could be killed if they expressed their true mental sex (say a strict Islamic country) would still be a Transsexual without ever touching mones or other things girls in the west accept as being readily available.

Oh and my friend lived as a woman - she just could not take mones. Basically by the time she was 40 she'd probably need a kidney transpalant - adding mones to a already comprimised renal system just wasn't viable.

I know exactly where you are coming from with your points all I'm saying is that whilst in general I agree the easiest way to define TS is by mones/ plants/ surgery etc it isn't strictly correct in terms of the technical definition which is a mental state. That mental state of course leads most of those people to take hormones and have surgeries but those actions aren't actually what defines them as TS.

As I said I hate these sort of threads because who is any one to put someone else in a little neatly defined box. Are you, Vanessa, Bella etc interchangeable - nope. Each of you and all the other ladies are all very different. I'm happier just trying to deal with people as people without trrying to label them and fit them into some preconceived notion of what they should be.

I'm glad for you and I hope your SRS goes well.

[innocentbychoice]

I read until page 13 and had enough of all this bitching and girls being catty towards each other.

This will end the day girls are humble enough to only dare to judge their own gender identification instead of other's based only on looks, a few words the others use or some stupid shit like that.

The fact that I'm gay doesn't mean I know everything about gay people and how other gays think, so the fact that some went through transition doesn't give them the power to fingerpoint others and tell them "ohhh you're not a TS honey, you're a CD" "you right there haven't taken hormones, you're a dude" "hey you look like a man then you're a man even if you're brain is female". Stop it, I'd expect this to come from chasers but not between girls, so support each other instead of attacking others just to validate your own femininity. It's embarassing and right down idiotic.

[BellaBellucci]

Simple answer is Yes to the original question in that by it's strict definition Transgender means - Appearing as, wishing to be considered as, or having undergone surgery to become a member of the opposite sex. That means tv's count.

Strictly under the question of the OP, you're right, I absolutely agree, A CD/TV is a TG (which I've also stated is completely valid, just not TS), but we went just a bit off-topic. I started in on Heather because, TG or not, she's not TS as near as I or any of the other girls here can tell, and she's trying to represent herself as such. This thread has been about hormones and breasts implants on TS ever since.

Sorry for the confusion. :)


You are defining Transsexual by an outer physical transformation but in terms of it's strict definition it's actually a mental state rather than a physical one

Sure, but how do you prove a mental state without changing your physical appearance, legal status, etc.? Actions speak louder than words. And that's all there really is to that IMO.


This will end the day girls are humble enough to only dare to judge their own gender identification instead of other's based only on looks, a few words the others use or some stupid shit like that.

I won't speak for the other girls, but I'm not judging based on looks, just actions. Do you feel that men in dresses are the same as transsexuals? Answer honestly. And if you say yes, then maybe you need to consider your own sexuality and stop questioning our choice to not accept them into our fold. :?

~BB~

[innocentbychoice]

I won't speak for the other girls, but I'm not judging based on looks, just actions. Do you feel that men in dresses are the same as transsexuals? Answer honestly. And if you say yes, then maybe you need to consider your own sexuality and stop questioning our choice to not accept them into our fold. :?

~BB~

If a man in a dress considers himself a man in a dress, then he's a man in a dress. If they consider themselves something else then I should keep an open mind and I'm no one to judge or to tell that person they're wrong. That's the key, keeping an open mind. There's lots of people in the world who don't understand transsexuals and criticize and discriminate against them, then why are you doing the same to others? I even read one of your posts in this thread where you said that associating yourself to people who say they're transwomen but that you don't consider trans would be exposing yourself to even more ridicule and discrimination...Wait, isn't that what some gay men say about you tgirls? Do you agree with that?:wiggle:

If being gay has taught me something is to be tolerant and open minded. I can't believe a group of people who suffer from even more discrimination than I've had, can be this close minded, catty and unsupportive towards each other.

[BellaBellucci]

If a man in a dress considers himself a man in a dress, then he's a man in a dress. If they consider themselves something else then I should keep an open mind and I'm no one to judge or to tell that person they're wrong. That's the key, keeping an open mind. There's lots of people in the world who don't understand transsexuals and associating yourself to people who say they're transwomen but that you criticize and discriminate against them, then why are you doing the same to others? I even read one of your posts in this thread where you said that don't consider trans would be exposing yourself to even more ridicule and discrimination...Wait, isn't that what some gay men say about you tgirls? Do you agree with that?:wiggle:

If being gay has taught me something is to be tolerant and open minded. I can't believe a group of people who suffer from even more discrimination than I've had, can be this close minded, catty and unsupportive towards each other.

Excuse me, this has to do with self-identification, just like you said, but only to a point. Even if a man in a dress is 'full time,' and identifies as a woman but hasn't made any physical or legal changes and doesn't intend to, then he/she is TG. To say that's not the same thing is a TS isn't discrimination. It's a fact. A TS changes her body. I've said repeatedly that I have no issue with CD/TV, but that doesn't mean that we're the same. Why is this so complicated for you?

Oh, right, because this is how people like you see the world:

http://www.threedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture5-pupsforweb_000.jpg

http://www.planetpals.com/weather/rainbow.jpg

Gods love ya!

~BB~

[libertynet]

I love 100% All Natural
I <3 crossdresser

[MdR Dave]

I love 100% All Natural
I <3 crossdresser

Good for you. These things are important.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fw atch%3Fv%3D9HT_IyyZKeI&v=9HT_IyyZKeI&gl=US

[Heather Moorland]

I started in on Heather because, TG or not, she's not TS as near as I or any of the other girls here can tell, and she's trying to represent herself as such.
Now thats not based on knowledge of me. Of which you have none. This is only political because I was so unfortunate to use the word "shemale" as a title.

[SirCumsAlot]

gimme a tgirl with no hormones, so she can actually get an erection and when she shoots her cum it feels like she's shooting a firefighter's water hose at me

[rydermorrison]

Now thats not based on knowledge of me. Of which you have none. This is only political because I was so unfortunate to use the word "shemale" as a title.

its more so because you refer to yourself as a "sissy"..

[Heather Moorland]

its more so because you refer to yourself as a "sissy"..Well I don't self Identify as a fettish 'sissy'. I have a longer explanation in this post http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1035820&postcount=31

[BellaBellucci]

Well I don't self Identify as a fettish 'sissy'. I have a longer explanation in this post http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1035820&postcount=31

And yet, despite all of the criticism you continue to use the word. It would really behoove you to know your audience. :geek:

~BB~

[innocentbychoice]

Excuse me, this has to do with self-identification, just like you said, but only to a point. Even if a man in a dress is 'full time,' and identifies as a woman but hasn't made any physical or legal changes and doesn't intend to, then he/she is TG. To say that's not the same thing is a TS isn't discrimination. It's a fact. A TS changes her body. I've said repeatedly that I have no issue with CD/TV, but that doesn't mean that we're the same. Why is this so complicated for you?

Oh, right, because this is how people like you see the world:

http://www.threedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture5-pupsforweb_000.jpg

http://www.planetpals.com/weather/rainbow.jpg

Gods love ya!

~BB~

Umm how do you know how I see the world? See Bella? You're so arrogant, you always think your word in the one that counts, and you think you're always right. Seems like being a TS hasn't made you any more tolerant or open minded (no wonder the other girls who started arguing in this topic already left and you're the only one still arguing)...too bad.

BTW, being transgender and transsexual isn't the same thing as you said, you're right about that. But that doesn't give you the right to attack people that for whatever reason haven't continue their transition pass the point of dressing like the opposite sex.

And maybe if I see the world as a happy place with puppies and rainbows as you said is because I am happy. And the way you feel always reflects on others. So, in that order of ideas, judging by your posts and your constant rants and ramblings about everything I'm guessing you're a sad and angry person. Too bad.

[BellaBellucci]

Seems like being a TS hasn't made you any more tolerant or open minded

I'm anti-illegal immigration too. Got a problem with that?! Does it make me closed-minded in that I expect people to come into our country using the channels we've given them, or be honest about their gender status based on the largely accepted definitions that came into existence long before I came along? You're not transsexual. You have no idea what's it's like to be judged by a stereotype that isn't even yours because of what some other people are intentionally trying to do.

How would you feel if you inherited a fortune that you helped earn from a family member and was forced to share it with ever other person who shared your name? Then have those guys go out and make fools of themselves with the money and tell people that they're you?

Transsexual women have no obligation to accept people of questionable identity when their own identity is fixed. Respect yes, but not accept. Trying to force us to do so is cheating and to demand so is unfair.


BTW, being transgender and transsexual isn't the same thing as you said, you're right about that. But that doesn't give you the right to attack people that for whatever reason haven't continue their transition pass the point of dressing like the opposite sex.

If they're 'full-time,' and their identity is constant, I can see the argument for saying that they're TS, sure, but I'd probably only agree on a case-by-case basis, which of course is why they make us see a shrink to get what we need to make sure there isn't another issue that's confusing our gender identity, and subsequently, most of us girls then judge each other to help ensure our best chances of acceptance from mainstream society by weeding out the fakes and embarrassments, and there is a countless number of them. I mean just look at some of the daffy bitches on this board! And moreover, when was the last time you heard an obviously transsexual woman brag that she was a 'part-timer' or had 'no breasts.' Sure, we've all seen 'no hormones' on ads for escorts, but most of them have breast implants and/or are 'full-time' at least. :lol:

In short, a CD/TV, by definition is not TS. Never was. May never be. A full-time TG is a TS if they identify as such, to me maybe, but I don't expect society at large to agree with me. Most people require proof of a person's commitment to something, and I'm one of them. It's impractical to just take anybody at their word about anything these days really. Thank you internet! :rolleyes:


And maybe if I see the world as a happy place with puppies and rainbows as you said is because I am happy. And the way you feel always reflects on others. So, in that order of ideas, judging by your posts and your constant rants and ramblings about everything I'm guessing you're a sad and angry person. Too bad.

'Realist' = angry person now? Look, Pollyanna, if you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention. :geek:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Two quick questions: is a caterpillar with wings glued onto it the same thing as a butterfly? And if a butterfly has a piece of its cocoon stuck to it as it escapes, does that make it a caterpillar? Hmm. :?

~BB~

[rydermorrison]

Well I don't self Identify as a fettish 'sissy'. I have a longer explanation in this post http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1035820&postcount=31

the fact that you think "a tv is just a ts with castration anxiety" is very telling as well... If you're that concerned with losing your "maleness"..

[BellaBellucci]

the fact that you think "a tv is just a ts with castration anxiety" is very telling as well... If you're that concerned with losing your "maleness"..

There's clearly no reasoning with these people. :yayo:

~BB~

[tsadriana]

Admin block this topic....only guy who feel offended reply...gays talke a life,.we are ts and we fight for what is in this life.u ust bhend over so shut the fuck and watch the mive.

[tsadriana]

gays u are a men with hairy arse pls dont compare with us ts who are glamorous everyday in and out so for god sacke stop gyas.gays means men with men we are womans with cocks with a beautiful body

[EvonRose]

Sorry Evon but you're wrong here. (Apologies because I dont want to sound like I'm trying to be nasty)

You are defining Transsexual by an outer physical transformation but in terms of it's strict definition it's actually a mental state rather than a physical one

Transsexualism appears in the two major diagnostic manuals used by mental health professionals worldwide, the American Psychiatric Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psychiatric_Association)'s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disord ers) (DSM, currently in its fourth edition) and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Statistical_Classification_of_Diseas es_and_Related_Health_Problems) (ICD, currently in its tenth edition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10)). The ICD-10 incorporates transsexualism, dual role transvestism and gender identity disorder of childhood into its Gender identity disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder) category, and defines transsexualism as "[a] desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex."[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism#cite_note-ICD10TS-3) The DSM does not distinguish between gender identity disorder and transsexualism, and defines Transvestic fetishism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism) as a separate phenomenon which may co-occur with transsexualism. The DSM diagnosis requires four components:[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism#cite_note-DSM-IV-TRans-4)


A desire or insistence that one is of the opposite biological sex (that is not due to a perceived advantage of being the other sex)
Evidence of persistent discomfort with, and perceived inappropriateness of the individual's biological sex
The individual is not Intersex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality) (although a diagnosis of GID Not Otherwise Specified is available, which enables intersex people who reject their sex-assignment to access transsexual treatments)
Evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in work or social life.

So by strict definition someone from a country where they could be killed if they expressed their true mental sex (say a strict Islamic country) would still be a Transsexual without ever touching mones or other things girls in the west accept as being readily available.

Oh and my friend lived as a woman - she just could not take mones. Basically by the time she was 40 she'd probably need a kidney transpalant - adding mones to a already comprimised renal system just wasn't viable.

I know exactly where you are coming from with your points all I'm saying is that whilst in general I agree the easiest way to define TS is by mones/ plants/ surgery etc it isn't strictly correct in terms of the technical definition which is a mental state. That mental state of course leads most of those people to take hormones and have surgeries but those actions aren't actually what defines them as TS.

As I said I hate these sort of threads because who is any one to put someone else in a little neatly defined box. Are you, Vanessa, Bella etc interchangeable - nope. Each of you and all the other ladies are all very different. I'm happier just trying to deal with people as people without trrying to label them and fit them into some preconceived notion of what they should be.

I'm glad for you and I hope your SRS goes well.

Transgender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)

Check out Harry Benjamin of Gender Disphoria...

So no I'm not actually wrong this is by definition the true fact, and they would never operate or do full surgery on someone who is transgender and even then they misdiagnose many transgender all the time and end up getting the surgery and them commiting suicide for deep regret. TRUE FACT. one must be a true transsexual, my mom Also is a sexologist and had told me these and she work in San Francisco helping the GLBT community... I have been around these people well enough to know the scientific terms and the social terms... Renal problems has no effect of you take a small does of spirolactone and progesterone, or 2 mg of estradiol or premarin, there are many estrogen to take and get around to it... What im saying, the harry Benjamin says that a transsexual is a mental state and a transgender is how they present them self. But the fact that your friend has not taken hormones and doe not wan the sex change this is scientifically a transgender not a transsexual... There is nothing wrong with that not everyone wants the surgery and many beautiful transgenders are proud to be that Many of my best friend is... Again look at this wiki link and an transgender is big umberella of different levels, a transsexual is a one group of trans people who decide to go full on woman...

I'm not putting anyone down i'm just pointing out, we by definition are still women what effects our label is what we do to our bodies, some ts are more manly than tg so it doesn't matter im talking solely based on mental state thus affecting the physical!!

Vagina equals transsexual
keeping penis equals transgender

easy and simple!

[tsadriana]

Transgender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)

Check out Harry Benjamin of Gender Disphoria...

So no I'm not actually wrong this is by definition the true fact, and they would never operate or do full surgery on someone who is transgender and even then they misdiagnose many transgender all the time and end up getting the surgery and them commiting suicide for deep regret. TRUE FACT. one must be a true transsexual, my mom Also is a sexologist and had told me these and she work in San Francisco helping the GLBT community... I have been around these people well enough to know the scientific terms and the social terms... Renal problems has no effect of you take a small does of spirolactone and progesterone, or 2 mg of estradiol or premarin, there are many estrogen to take and get around to it... What im saying, the harry Benjamin says that a transsexual is a mental state and a transgender is how they present them self. But the fact that your friend has not taken and doe not wan the sex change this is scientifically a transgender not a transsexual... There is nothing wrong with that not everyone wants the surgery and many beautiful transgenders are proud to be that Many of my best friend is... Again look at this wiki link and an transgender is big umberella of different levels, a transsexual is a one group of trans people who decide to go full on woman...
Gays time out and fekk off for good ur gayssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[tsadriana]

The people whoare against in here to ts are gays i wont allow as a men u shave like a proper man to not be agreed with another ts opinion is a huige offence to me not to all ts.hey gays bdo u know how many sacrifice we ts do?doi u know how much we spend to be beautiful and sexy for our partners?u don`t know nothing so close ur crap mouth and don`t say ur opinio if ur not ts.

[tsadriana]

im fucking pist off and gays come here as a ts.bulshit.and im lost in my grammar as im itlaina not english but i try my best as i speask 4 lang.and this is noit advertise.

[Heather Moorland]

the fact that you think "a tv is just a ts with castration anxiety" is very telling as well... If you're that concerned with losing your "maleness"..I dont know if you are just dump or you deliberately misunderstand. I don't identify as TV! I don't have castration anxiety and I am probably giong to have SRS one day.

The problem is that most of you self identify with a psychiatric diagnoses. I don't. And if you don.t want to call me TS it fine with me. I self identify with our history, the hijra, the kathoy, the berdache, the gallea of ancient rome and all the other sisters we had in history. (Ok don't count you self in th 'we' if you don't like. I dont care)

[asianphoenixx]

I think we have to stop with all these arguments
Everybody has their point of views and nobody is right or wrong, depending which values or prospectives we are using.

Gosh...is it that hard just to be ourselves and be happy with it?
does it really matter whether people call us TV, TG, Ts or woman?
We don't change just by being called or categorized.
We remain the same within
Just be confident and be honest with ourselves
It's our lives not others...who cares with labels...I don't

[EvonRose]

I think we have to stop with all these arguments
Everybody has their point of views and nobody is right or wrong, depending which values or prospectives we are using.

Gosh...is it that hard just to be ourselves and be happy with it?
does it really matter whether people call us TV, TG, Ts or woman?
We don't change just by being called or categorized.
We remain the same within
Just be confident and be honest with ourselves
It's our lives not others...who cares with labels...I don't


I agree and stand by that 100 percent, we should just be happy with ourselves and not get caught up with the labels, I was just pointing out the scientific terms of things and if i'm going to be crucified for that well, maybe you should take it up with the science people. I don't care what people do to their body or what not, I care about own and only me...

[robertlouis]

I think we have to stop with all these arguments
Everybody has their point of views and nobody is right or wrong, depending which values or prospectives we are using.

Gosh...is it that hard just to be ourselves and be happy with it?
does it really matter whether people call us TV, TG, Ts or woman?
We don't change just by being called or categorized.
We remain the same within
Just be confident and be honest with ourselves
It's our lives not others...who cares with labels...I don't

:iagree: :Bowdown: You're such a wise woman, Tia. I agree and applaud.

You too, Evon. Some of the vituperation on this thread has been breathtaking all the time and pretty scary most of the rest.

And blimey girl, what time is it in Miami right now? Go get your beauty sleep.

[Tika]

The problem with this question and most people's responses is that the question being asked is poorly thought out, and the responses as well.

Example: You have an attractive young woman who is trans - no -sexual, no -gendered, no -vestite. How do you label this person without knowing anything about them? You need to find out how they self-identify, basically. On the surface, they appear quite feminine, nice voice, very pretty, nothing telling as far as masculine mannerisms, etc. So you ask them.

"Oh I'm on hormones and going to get SRS soon". You assume they're a transsexual woman. Issue solved. But is it? They could be lying. So your perception of them is solidified by the information you received, even if that information is incorrect.

"Oh I'm just dressing up for kicks, my girlfriend gets off on it". Ooo, transvestite. Probably not going to take your hundred bucks and show you a good time, what a shame. Move along.

"I identify as a woman but I don't feel that surgery is necessary as genitals aren't what makes a person a person". Well that's a little fussy and formal. Probably transgendered.

But in each of these cases, the person is still the same person you saw - attractive, feminine, etc. So what changed? Your perception of them? Knowledge of how they view themselves?

What if the person in the first example (let's make this kind of ridiculous) is actually being given sugar pills and not female hormones? They think they're on hormones, they tell you that they're on hormones, but they're not. What then? How does that change their view of themselves and your view of them?

Ultimately, there is no real difference other than self-identification as a woman. It doesn't matter if SRS is in their future, if they're on hormones, whatever. Congruence between self-identification and physical identity is going to help quite a lot. This means that Bruce the 150kg truck driver in a dress calling himself Tina and wanting to be treated as a woman isn't going to work well, but a slim, smooth-skinned, attactive young man who realizes that he's actually a woman inside (or whatever terminology you want that works for you) is going to have a much easier time being accepted as a woman by the rest of the world.

Bottom line: If it looks like a duck, quacks and spends a lot of time in the water, it's probably a duck. Stop trying to classify it, you're not a fucking ornithologist.

[loveboof]

Bottom line: If it looks like a duck, quacks and spends a lot of time in the water, it's probably a duck. Stop trying to classify it, you're not a fucking ornithologist.

There are different types of ducks though, and although most of us dont know/care which is which - the difference is still there...

[Tika]

Those who chose to stay or keep their penis is a transgender, and those who undergo the full surgery are transsexual, its very easy to mix this up.

I am a transsexual taking hormones since 12, fully developed as a female, lives a female 24/7, and is planning on a full srs in 2013.

Ummm no. Right now you're a "transgender", since you still have your penis. You'll be a transsexual after SRS. Kind of sucks when your own words bite you in the ass.

What's that? You're arguing? Well then, anyone who you consider "a transgender" can just say they're planning on getting SRS, *like you are* and then they'll magically be a transsexual.

[BellaBellucci]

does it really matter whether people call us TV, TG, Ts or woman?

Yes, it does. If people can't even treat us how we'd like to be treated, there's probably not much else we can expect from them either. It's about respect.


Ummm no. Right now you're a "transgender", since you still have your penis. You'll be a transsexual after SRS. Kind of sucks when your own words bite you in the ass.

What's that? You're arguing? Well then, anyone who you consider "a transgender" can just say they're planning on getting SRS, *like you are* and then they'll magically be a transsexual.

Ummm, no. A transsexual has taken steps to change secondary sex characteristics. This has nothing to do with SRS. A post-op is a female (sex and gender) of transsexual experience.

~BB~

[Heather Moorland]

A post-op is a female
"We want to look at a WOMANS dress, yes we are WOMEN you know".
David Walliams and Matt Lucas. in the comedy show Little Britain

[BellaBellucci]

"We want to look at a WOMANS dress, yes we are WOMEN you know".
David Walliams and Matt Lucas. in the comedy show Little Britain

You mean 'because we're ladies?' Geez. Such a grasp on the concept of transsexuality you must have. You can't even get the cliches right. :lol:

Little Britain - Emily Howard at the Swimming Pool - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INj6HPuKJnk)

... and Emily Howard is a transvestite. :rolleyes:

~BB~

[Heather Moorland]

You mean 'because we're ladies?' Geez. Such a grasp on the concept of transsexuality you must have. You can't even get the cliches right. :lol:
Only transvestites don't insist on being women. The sketch is much more resembling some transsexuals. But ofcause it is not so political correct to make such at sketch about people born in a wrong body.

[BellaBellucci]

Only transvestites don't insist on being women. The sketch is much more resembling some transsexuals. But ofcause it is not so political correct to make such at sketch about people born in a wrong body.

You can't be serious. :?

Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)

~BB~

[tsadriana]

You can't be serious. :?

Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)

~BB~
I think Bella u made a very good friend:)

[Heather Moorland]

You can't be serious. :? Oh I forgot. If transvestites don't insist on being women, you cant scare the transsexuals that embarrasse you, by telling them that they are really transvestites. Can you?

[BellaBellucci]

Oh I forgot. If transvestites don't insist on being women, you cant scare the transsexuals that embarrasse you, by telling them that they are really transvestites. Can you?

Seriously, seriously? :?

~BB~

[tsadriana]

Seriously, seriously? :?

~BB~
Heather ur number one fan..lol:)

[MdR Dave]

So maybe this is dumb but as to the question in the title: if you don't do anything to trans your gender, isn't that just GID ?

[Heather Moorland]

So maybe this is dumb but as to the question in the title: if you don't do anything to trans your gender, isn't that just GID ? GID (Gender Identity Disorder) is the psychiatric diagnoses. That is somthing a Psychiatrist give you regardles whether you do anything about it or not. GID is what the diagnoses is called to day. Before 1994 that diagnoses was called transsexuallity.

[MdR Dave]

Stated another way, if you don't trans anything. . .

[innocentbychoice]

I'm anti-illegal immigration too. Got a problem with that?! Does it make me closed-minded in that I expect people to come into our country using the channels we've given them, or be honest about their gender status based on the largely accepted definitions that came into existence long before I came along? You're not transsexual. You have no idea what's it's like to be judged by a stereotype that isn't even yours because of what some other people are intentionally trying to do.

How would you feel if you inherited a fortune that you helped earn from a family member and was forced to share it with ever other person who shared your name? Then have those guys go out and make fools of themselves with the money and tell people that they're you?

Transsexual women have no obligation to accept people of questionable identity when their own identity is fixed. Respect yes, but not accept. Trying to force us to do so is cheating and to demand so is unfair.



If they're 'full-time,' and their identity is constant, I can see the argument for saying that they're TS, sure, but I'd probably only agree on a case-by-case basis, which of course is why they make us see a shrink to get what we need to make sure there isn't another issue that's confusing our gender identity, and subsequently, most of us girls then judge each other to help ensure our best chances of acceptance from mainstream society by weeding out the fakes and embarrassments, and there is a countless number of them. I mean just look at some of the daffy bitches on this board! And moreover, when was the last time you heard an obviously transsexual woman brag that she was a 'part-timer' or had 'no breasts.' Sure, we've all seen 'no hormones' on ads for escorts, but most of them have breast implants and/or are 'full-time' at least. :lol:

In short, a CD/TV, by definition is not TS. Never was. May never be. A full-time TG is a TS if they identify as such, to me maybe, but I don't expect society at large to agree with me. Most people require proof of a person's commitment to something, and I'm one of them. It's impractical to just take anybody at their word about anything these days really. Thank you internet! :rolleyes:



'Realist' = angry person now? Look, Pollyanna, if you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention. :geek:

~BB~

Blah blah blah...

To sum it up, live and let live. Live your life by yourself, who gives a shit how anyone else wants to live? You know you're a transsexual, great! If somebody else says they're too, it's none of your business, is not affecting you. Live your live. That's it.

[FreddieGomez]

why does the pic in heather moorland's avatar look like a hairy man's ass?

[Heather Moorland]

why does the pic in heather moorland's avatar look like a hairy man's ass?That is because Heather Moorland is only on hormones and has not had a buttlift yet. But don't you worry. As soon at I got the monny It will. And by the way, you are welcome to come up with a little contribution. :party:

[BellaBellucci]

That is because Heather Moorland is only on hormones and not had a buttlift yet. But don't you worry. As soon at I got the monny It will. And by the way, you are welcome to come up with a little contribution. :party:

How old are you? Over 50?

~BB~

[EvonRose]

Ummm no. Right now you're a "transgender", since you still have your penis. You'll be a transsexual after SRS. Kind of sucks when your own words bite you in the ass.

What's that? You're arguing? Well then, anyone who you consider "a transgender" can just say they're planning on getting SRS, *like you are* and then they'll magically be a transsexual.

There is a difference with a person who scheduled it, paid for it and is ready by the Harry Benjamin protocol, compared to someone who probably doesn't want it. You cannot help time, and schedule that is beyond our control it is what we strongly want for ourselves in the future. Kind of sucks when you have not studied this and kind of sucks that my mother who is trained on this field actually educated me.

You can say it and lie, but in reality if you never plan on it or don't get it your a transgender, I'm sorry is there something wrong with being a tg because you seem to be offended by what I said, maybe you should ask a professional and have them tell you the same thing, Have you seen a doctor for hormones because if you have you would have a better understanding about your identity... I am a transsexual and proud of it, if your a tg do the same, you turned into negative not me, so you have an issue with yourself.

[Heather Moorland]

I agree with you that the word transsexual as a tecnical term means "a person who has changed, or is in the process of changing the displayed sex of that persons genitals". Originally the term was envented as a psychiatric diagnoses, but to day that diagnoses has changed and is now called IDC-10 F64.0. A subcategory of a number of close related conditions caled GID or Gender Identity Disorder. The treatment of GID is defined by the Harry Benjamin association now called WPATH. Nowhere in the world can you have SRS without the diagnoses GID. (except Iran but thats an other story)


.... and is ready by the Harry Benjamin protocol, ... The question is according to what Hairy Benjamin protocol? The one from the 1950'es when old Harry discovered the syndrome, the one from the 1980'es or the one that that is in place today defined by WPATH. The deffinition varies a lot. And I am not at all talking about the socalled "SOC-HBS" (http://www.shb-info.org/id34.html) which are NOT mecial professionals but really just bigots with a low self esteem that has found some deffinition they can use to hit on others. (Those people really belong in a mental hospital)

The diagnoses has changed over time because the therapist have discovered that the world is much more divers that what would fit into their original litle boxes. As as they discover more of how the world is the diagnoses will change yet again. What remains though is that you can find transgender people (used as an umbrellaterm) as far back as the stone age and in all cultures and all ages.

[EvonRose]

I agree with you that the word transsexual as a tecnical term means "a person who has changed, or is in the process of changing the displayed sex of that persons genitals". Originally the term was envented as a psychiatric diagnoses, but to day that diagnoses has changed and is now called IDC-10 F64.0. A subcategory of a number of close related conditions caled GID or Gender Identity Disorder. The treatment of GID is defined by the Harry Benjamin association now called WPATH. Nowhere in the world can you have SRS without the diagnoses GID. (except Iran but thats an other story)

The question is according to what Hairy Benjamin protocol? The one from the 1950'es when old Harry discovered the syndrome, the one from the 1980'es or the one that that is in place today defined by WPATH. The deffinition varies a lot. And I am not at all talking about the socalled "SOC-HBS" (http://www.shb-info.org/id34.html) which are NOT mecial professionals but really just bigots with a low self esteem that has found some deffinition they can use to hit on others. (Those people really belong in a mental hospital)

The diagnoses has changed over time because the therapist have discovered that the world is much more divers that what would fit into their original litle boxes. As as they discover more of how the world is the diagnoses will change yet again. What remains though is that you can find transgender people (used as an umbrellaterm) as far back as the stone age and in all cultures and all ages.

All those that you have listed above abide by the Harry Benjamin protocol, Getting an srs in the US, Thailand, Canada and other advanced countries abide by the Harry Benjamin protocol, if you don't qualify you will not be allowed to get an SRS, its more than just being treated with an GID, the protocol states a strong desire to have female genitalia and to be mentally prepared for the life of not having penis, transgenders just are not qualified!!!. Even then they make a mistake rarely and then ppl end up killing themselves after srs, there is a reason why the t world is categorized in different labels! not everyone is fit for some things, and some qualify for some others don't. A tg would never know or feel how a ts feels, ts have more of a higher extreme level of this GID thereof we are categorized and treated differently...

it's nothing bad, its okay we are all women just different path we choose, i cannot choose the path of a tg or i will never be happy and a tg cannot choose mine.