CAN WE FINALLY BE HONEST???

[cheribaum]

Im dont fear GOD therefore I dont believe in him.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Well I came from a catholic family with a religious grandma. Its part of my culture and heritage which I respect therefore I wouldnt just disavow being a catholic even if there are things I didnt agree with. I believe in the power of the almighty. Its what gives most people hope in times of a crisis and needs.

You would wonder and marvel at cellphone reports during the 9-11 catostropic event..people who were about to die called and reached out to friends and family even praying no matter if they didnt believe at any religious faith.

So what? there are catholic priest who abuse little boys..As there are also Rabbi's who does the same thing. Im not trying to flame you or anyone here but what Id like to point out is that there is more to ones race and or religion. You can just about find rapist of every color, A child molester in every race and so forth and so on.

Human beings and all religions are equally flawed. And its nothing new. :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[BlackAdder]

Uhh...so you need to fear something to believe in it then?:)....


Not all religions are bad....I would certainly have to say the monotheistic ones are the worst offenders. They tend to be the most destructive, intolerant and straight up mind-controlling ones.

I dont find anything offensive in the buddhist or taoist doctrines....And the "religion" of the Native Americans is beautiful....

Lets face it, certain religions are all about control and negativity and others are about living in harmony with the universe. Which would YOU rather be involved with?.....

[Ecstatic]

I dont find anything offensive in the buddhist or taoist doctrines....And the "religion" of the Native Americans is beautiful....
At the root, the same is true of the Abrahamic, monotheistic religions: it's the institutionalization of religion that's dangerous, because then the power shifts to the priesthood (read Nietsche on this) and away from the essence. I consider myself a Buddhist because the fundamental teachings of the Buddha are in complete harmony with my worldview, but I am not a member of any Buddhist sect.

[BlackAdder]

Sorry but after reading the old and new testament, I cant believe that its just the institutionalizing of monotheism thats dangerous.....I cant imagine the Koran is any better.

Apart from the unadulterated teachings of Jesus, who may actually have been a good if misunderstood person, the rest of the book(s) is complete shit.

[hwbs]

i just try to look at things from a historical standpoint instead of biblical...holy rollers drive me crazy....i believe we shouldnt force our own opinions or beliefs on everyone else when it comes to religion ...it seems in my experience that holy rollers and born agains feel the need to force their beliefs on you instead of keeping it to themselves... for example , people in my family would always ask about if im going to church and stuff and look down on me....but on the other end of the spectrum , my great aunt who was a nun in the catholic church never judged me or asked me bout my weekly routines when it came to church and never tried to guilt trip me....pretty ironic , eh?

[chefmike]

Great post, J. I'm an agnostic who detests most, if not all organized religion, and the corruption and hypocrisy that goes along with it. Yet, I still consider myself somewhat of a spiritual person...I just don't feel the need for religious dogma to define the universe.

And even if you do believe in god, remember what was said in Jethro Tull's classic Aqualung album, "He's not the kind you have to wind up on sunday..."

[cheribaum]

All I'm saying is that the FEAR of god was never put in me, example: If i sin Im going to HELL, I believe in reincarnation, life after death and EVOLUTION. God plays no part in anything I have done, determination, self doubt, appearance, genetics, self promotion is what has put me here. I find it hard to believe miracles happen from GOD. I've never seen one. God never intervened my life and made anything better for me. My birth was a miracle that my mom had me after 21 hrs of labor. lol

there are things I do fear like, being attacked, murder, AIDS, BAD AND EVIL people, religious people, etc. Those things are real and I have seen it.

[Quinn]

IMO, for most people, organized religion is simply another way to escape being responsible for their own behavior. The Semitic religions, in particular, often provide convenient excuses for disliking people based on their lifestyles or competing religious beliefs.

I think, perhaps, some unique exceptions to the rule of organized religion might be found among certain Eastern teachings, particularly among certain Buddhist Mahayana schools (Ch’an, etc.).

-Quinn

[Trogdor]

Reason I became a witch, we only got one rule, and one rule only.

Do whatever you want, just don't hurt anyone else

Pretty plain and simple I think. :D

[cheribaum]

In case anyone missed my humor, I dont see birth as a miracle!

[Trogdor]

in witchcraft, you can use magics to help yourself and others.

I made a small stone circle in the forrest on the property here. Doing magics and prayers and stuff there. Summer Solstace is fun :mrgreen: :D 8)

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

But HJTG u know i love ya, but i cant let ur post slide...ur culture and heritage should only be an influence and positive force in ur life if it is positive and something u pride urself with

I luv ya too horny jewish boy. LOL. :wink: But ofcourse I wouldnt mention my heritage and tradition had it not been positive in my experience. Tho Im hardly religious. But still believes there is a god and the power of divine intervention.


...should i promote and continue my heritage and traditions if they include slavery, abuse of women and the tolerance of hatred towards gays? obviously not...then why endorse catholicism that has and continues to have a spotty record in all these areas? and the fact that it provides a false sense of security and hope is precisely the reason its so bad for people...

I wouldnt promote..had it been negative on my experience to start with J. Although, wait a minute.. I didnt mention it to promote/endorse it in the first place J. :wink: I believe in freedom of choice. You chose to be an atheist and others chose to be a witch. LOL. Ive no problems with that as long as you are happy with your own choices. :D


you can believe that santa will bring u gifts all nite long, but guess what, unless daddy puts it there it aint happening...

And No. I never believed there's a Santa! LOL. Im a smart kid. Hehe 8)


so many people pray and hope and do other stupid shit rather than get jobs, pick themselves up and rectify the shitty situation...

Yes. And boy dont they pray and hope dont they? Lmao..But nothing changes unless they move their fat ass and get that job isnt it? Praying doesnt land you that covetted job your after. You gotta go after it! :wink:


and as to ur comment on rapists and evil people coming in all colors, ide like to point out the strong correlation between violence and religion throughout the world and history...

Ok where is that correlation you were saying? Mistress is waiting to hear them. LOL.


isnt it ironic that in scandinavia, a place with little to no organized religion, there is alot less crime or hate than in religious iran, mexico, indonesia, etc. all of whom are meccas for religion....in fact in the US, look around, the more religious and higher church attndence there is for a state, the more hate crimes and bigotry there is...

Yes and thats great! But were not in Scandinavia are we now J? :twisted:

By the way, J you need a good lay..so you dont feel all these crazy things inside your head. I sensed you can release err relieve alot of these tensions and not sound mad or frustrated most of the time. :wink:

~Huge Kisses for J.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

love ya babe, u can put aside my tone and sometimes stupid excessive jabs and smile all the while and be courteous...big fucking kisses for u:)

Haha! I do. But when I read your post earlier you sounded mad at the world. LOL. But we cant do anything about things beyond our own reach. Or about how people are in general.

:arrow: :) Im always courteous. Cant fake being nice now cant we? LOL. :wink:


well said hun and like that fat fuck oreilly says "let the audience decide" although im sure we arent gonna convince anyone of anything here;)

Agreed. Hehe 8)


at least we agree that prayer is a waste of time...

Hey, I still pray. And go to church on holidays. LOL.


"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself."
Peter O'Toole.

Nice quote btw. :wink:

HTG
__________________________
"Fetish is my business" Holla!

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[flabbybody]

I'll tell ya why all my religious Jewish friends fom New York and Long Island send their kids to religious schools. The public schools are racially mixed and they don't want their kids exposed to that. They'll go on and on about how liberal they are and they can't stand Bush/Cheney etc, but they're fucking hypocrites. When it comes to your children, you put your money where your mouth is and these people are as racist as George Wallace.

[BlackAdder]

Damn lol....good example...


Violence in religion...hmmm.....Can you say Spanish Inquisition....or the Crusades perhaps? Its no wonder the muslim world hates white people....you should read some of the accounts of the Crusades where the supposedly "Godly" soldiers raped and murdered there women and children.....and anything else you can imagine because they were only "heathens".......

[Ecstatic]

Sorry but after reading the old and new testament, I cant believe that its just the institutionalizing of monotheism thats dangerous.....I cant imagine the Koran is any better.

Apart from the unadulterated teachings of Jesus, who may actually have been a good if misunderstood person, the rest of the book(s) is complete shit.
There you have it, BlackAdder: the distinction between the institutionalized form of monotheism (as evidenced in the Tanakh or "Old Testament" and New Testament) on the one hand and the root as I described it:


At the root, the same is true of the Abrahamic, monotheistic religions: it's the institutionalization of religion that's dangerous, because then the power shifts to the priesthood (read Nietsche on this) and away from the essence. I consider myself a Buddhist because the fundamental teachings of the Buddha are in complete harmony with my worldview, but I am not a member of any Buddhist sect.
Thing is, we don't have the "unadulterated teachings of Jesus" -- he never wrote his teachings, it was an oral tradition -- so how can we say? The Christian Bible was canonized more than 300 years after Jesus. The Hebrew Bible was codified 100s of years after its greatest teachers lived. The Buddhist scriptures weren't written down until 100 years after Buddha's passing.

And ecstatic, ur form of belief is fine, do whatever it is that makes u happy and a better person, buddhism, yoga, anything, just leave the rest of us out of it...the other religions cant leave the rest of us the fuck alone...
Hey J, I didn't pull you into it. Leave yourself out, in or wherever you want, but don't accuse me of trying to pull you in. Read my post again: I merely stated my opinion and Buddhist leanings, but nowhere did I try to sell that to anyone else. Believe what you want, it's all the same to me.

Rabbi Hillel was asked to explain the Torah while standing on one foot (something no one else was able to do). He said: "What is hateful to you, don’t do to your neighbor. That is the whole of the Torah; the rest is commentary –- go and study."

[Thick_Bar]

I am certainly a deeply spiritual person, and most of that is based in Christianity (though I am independant of any organized group or church). However, it's fine with me if you believe what ever you want to believe, and I don't think all religious people are a threat. Nor are all athiests.

If this board is not a place for religion, why do you keep starting threads about it?

Write whatever you want. I just want to state that I am a Christian, and am not the least bit intimidated by you or anyone else on this board.

[Ecstatic]

Hey, it's cool, J. Thanks for clarifying.

[Skillet]

and just say it like it is:

IF YOU ARE RELIGIOUS YOU ARE A FUCKING IMBECILE!!!

Perhaps now after this clown mayor from NO's latest comments about god punishing tons of innocent little kids for some evil reason do we say "hold on, this whole religion thing seems like bullshit, hold on now, how the fuck did i buy into this scam from the start???"

How many more stupid insensitive comments do we have to listen to from preachers, ministers and other mentally retarded folk before we finally admit weve been duped all along???

When do we start to acknowledge that muslim, jewish, xian is just a variation of the same bullshit??? each of these sects think the other one is full of shit and they got it right...guess what, u cant all be right, but u can ALL be wrong!!!

Can u at least concede that its becoming more difficult each day to be an apologist for religion? from priest molestors to letting millions in africa die from aids for not allowing birth control to being responsible for the suffering of billions of women, gays and minorities through out history...when does it end??? when do sane, honest, responsible religious people say "hold on a second, maybe this thing isnt working, maybe it was all just a scare tactic invented years ago to keep society in check"???

I can respect someone who says i grew up in a religious family and am really confused and trying to deal with this all...thats what i did for years until i removed the shackles of religion one day...i know its fucking hard...but i cannot respect someone who says i dont care what i find out i dont care what u say blah blah blah i will always love jesus and stick with what i was raised with...thats a fucking moron...i would love to hear opposing views on any belief deeply held and see if they stand up to dissent...

my heart goes out to all confused religious people who struggle with evolution, stem cell research, biblical inconsistancies and other disturbing areas presented in contemporary society to the believer...dont let anyone fool u, its scary to take that big step and be an atheist, its comforting to think theres a loving god who watches us and protects us and we can pray to him and rely on him....then again, its a huge crutch, and the world becomes a much more beautiful place when u realize that theres alot more mystery and intruige and unknown out there...us atheists dont have the answers to most questions out there, but we wont subscribe to a silly fairy tale to make ourselves feel better...

just be fair and honest with urselves and see on what side of most issues the hard core religious person is and on what side the non believer is on...step outside the box and youlle be amazed how things look from that angle...its the year 2006 maybe these antiquated belief systems have become unneccessary...

i just wish in my lifetime ill witness a reputable anchorman sitting opposite a preacher or an elected official and stare at him after some god is punishing us routine and say "are u fucking kidding me??? are u on crack??? how do u put ur pants on in the morning??? someone get this fuckin monster out of the studio before i punch him!!!"

thank god im an atheist
Good grief. Could you just shut your damn mouth about this? If someone wants to believe in God and practice Christianity, let them and just stop blathering about it. Your anti-religious tirades are worse than any religious ones that I've heard. I believe in God and I'm am a Christian, that doesn't make me a "moron." A statement like that just makes you seem like a pretentious prick.

[sheyum]

God--every word youve said could have come out of my own mouth..the whole religious thing astounds me--and though I like to feel I am a very open and accepting person, I need to force myself not to judge all religious people as total fools...i just dont understand it..its a source of never-ending fascination for me....Im not sure how this thread started, but did you catch Larry king last night..they were talking about gay marriage--and using brokeback mt as a backfrop for the discussion...They had a few gay actors and politicians on--who were very articulate and well-spoken...and then a few conservative religious leaders who came across as psychopaths--at least to me..the thing that makes it all the more baffling is that--in all fairness--it was clear that both of the conservatives were articulate--intelligent people..You could see by their command of the English language-and by the clarity of their mental processes...But WHAT they were saying astounds me..I simply dont understand why these people feel that THEY have the answers..Because THEY believe in some religious hocus-pocus--gay people should be denied marriage--with all of the legal rights and social comforts that it affords..as i listened to them, I kept thinking to myself--"what if youre NOT religious!!!??" why must one's life and liberty be controlled and determined by these zealots????
Who said THEY had the answers?? I dont begrudge them their beliefs..fine--if they want to believe in God and the tenants of Christianity--thats fine with me...But dont tell ME what to do!! (and I say "me" figuratively in this case--as Im straight and the gay marriage doesnt affect me in any way)..Though it affects me indirectly because i dont want to live in a society thats intolerant and closed-minded...
and did anyone see the barbara walters special on Heaven????oh my god..
that was fascinating..the astounding thing to me was the statistic that 95 percent of people in this country believe that there is one and that they are going there...again-thats fine--i WISH i believed that--i truly do..it would give me alot of comfort..But i simply dont--even though i endured 12 years of catholic school (dont get me started)....
but anyway--i could go on and on...
but Id rather look at pics of big dicked trannies:))

[brickcitybrother]

Im dont fear GOD therefore I dont believe in him.

Your sentiment may be true ... but you logic is flawed.

I mean ... if you don't fear GOD ... then you DO believe ... its just that you don't fear.

The real question ... is whether you are passive in your position, meaning you don't believe in GOD. Or are you affirmative ... meaning you believe there is no GOD.

[brickcitybrother]

P.S. - Ray Nagin's comments are completely un-freaking-believable! I think GOD needs to help him!

[chefmike]

P.S. - Ray Nagin's comments are completely un-freaking-believable! I think GOD needs to help him!

And to add yet another bizarre touch, first crazylady barbara bush chimed in to speak for god (like her sainted husband), to say "god wants new orleans to be rebuilt." I wonder what god told her when she killed that girl in the auto accident?

[brickcitybrother]

I wonder what god told her when she killed that girl in the auto accident?


Damn .. you went THERE. No holds barred huh. lol

[chefmike]

I wonder what god told her when she killed that girl in the auto accident?


Damn .. you went THERE. No holds barred huh. lol




BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

A bit more serious than the vince foster crap.....

[sheyum]

Youre right once again---the dem party is fucked for that very reason...I--like you apparently--live in NYC...and am an artist on top of that--so I need to constantly remind myself that the country is not made up of folks like myself or anyone that I associate with. When you live in NYC--you really get a skewed vision of the US...unfortunately..I travel alot to europe for my work--and people ask me all the time what ever possed the people of this nation to vote for george bush...But I have to admit to them that I have no idea--and that they are asking the wrong person--because NOONE I EVER come into contact with would think of voting for george Bush....its like we live in a different country!! But Im rambling....Did you see larry King last night?? It was interesting..Of course hes a reporter--and generally remains entirely objective and without opinion in his show--but it was painfully obvious the contempt he felt for these conservatives he was talking to..In fact--on several occasions--he made very snotty derisive comments directed at them..He just couldnt help himself..And i dont even know what his political/social orientations are--but just being an intelligent being made it impossible for him not to react..
Ever watch Bill Maher?? he goes on and on about just what you were mentining in your last post--that logic and reason are the enemies of religion....
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
one more thing--as u mentioned--i dont understand how people on THIS board--especially transgendered folks--could ever possibly be religious--but who am i to say???

[BlackAdder]

Hey well..theres being religious and then theres ramming down your God Damned throat bible banging religious....

[cheribaum]

Im dont fear GOD therefore I dont believe in him.

Your sentiment may be true ... but you logic is flawed.

I mean ... if you don't fear GOD ... then you DO believe ... its just that you don't fear.

The real question ... is whether you are passive in your position, meaning you don't believe in GOD. Or are you affirmative ... meaning you believe there is no GOD.

why would I believe there's a god if I dont believe in him? I dont have a personal hate for the guy. I just dont believe he's real. The fear people have for god make him real, example: If I dont believe in him I wont go to heaven causing fear to believe in him and making them believe he's real, I dont fear him, to me he's not real. I live my life by my own expectations, not his. If someone feels they need to live up to him, thats fine. Just like the easter bunny, santa clause or the tooth fairy. Its nice to have something to believe in, Im just a littlle more realistic.

[BlackAdder]

No, i get what your saying and believe me, i think religion is a dated concept that as we evolve more and more and can access more of the universe that used to be ascribed to "gods" and "magic" that there will be a steady decline in religion....Born out by fact so far....Then the other half of me says that theres always going to be a "religion" even if we have to reinvent it to suit the times..Its almost ingrained in the human psyche by now.

[marquis999]

I'm glad to see that BlackAdder has had the time to traverse the globe and do a comprehensive study of the world's religions. He seems to have missed a few key points. I'll save his first comment for last.

1. It's not the religion that leads clergy to make stupid, insensitive comments. It is ignorance. Not all religions have clergy, so you might want to take another look at all the world's relgions.

2. Just another variation. Hmmm.. be nice to people. Love thy neighbor. Don't kill. Could you clarify as how that qualifies as Bullshit? Not every Abrahamic religion thinks that all the others are "full of shit," and yes, there's even more than one that says they're all right but things have gotten "lost in translation." I guess you kind of skimmed over that whole Eastern portion of the world or you would have discovered that 2 of the 3 wisemen were Zoroastrians come to see the new Jewish kid.

3. Again, not all religions say that there are disagreements between science and religion. Not all religions take the bible (a book written by men, translated by men, and interpreted by men) as literal. There's plenty of room in my religion for all the issues you raised.

4. Hard core religious people vs. the non-believer. Here's some match ups I'd like to see: Pope JP 2 (HC) vs Jeff Dahmer (atheist).
The KKK (HC) vs J Robert Oppenheimer (Atheist, built atomic bomb).
Al Qaeda (ask any true muslim, these guys have abandoned the principles of their faith) vs. Mother Theresa (HC).
I think that this short lists indicates that Hard Core religious people and non-believers can be on any side of any issue, independant of their religious beliefs.

And in response to your opening line...

IF YOU ARE IGNORANT AND PROCLAIMING TO BE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE THAT YOU CAN MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT ABOUT SOMETHING AS VAST AND VARIED AS RELIGION, YOU ARE A FUCKING IMBECILE.

Ok, maybe Al Qaeda is religious, but we have Christian Fundamentalists in this country who are just as bad, and don't kid yourself into thinking we don't. The KKK will commit just as many atrocities in the name of Christianity as AQ will in the name of Islam.

Thanks for playing :)

and just say it like it is:

IF YOU ARE RELIGIOUS YOU ARE A FUCKING IMBECILE!!!

1. How many more stupid insensitive comments do we have to listen to from preachers, ministers and other mentally retarded folk before we finally admit weve been duped all along???

2. When do we start to acknowledge that muslim, jewish, xian is just a variation of the same bullshit??? each of these sects think the other one is full of shit and they got it right...guess what, u cant all be right, but u can ALL be wrong!!!

3. my heart goes out to all confused religious people who struggle with evolution, stem cell research, biblical inconsistancies and other disturbing areas presented in contemporary society to the believer...

4. just be fair and honest with urselves and see on what side of most issues the hard core religious person is and on what side the non believer is on...

thank god im an atheist

[Skillet]

It's nice that anytime anyone disagrees with J, they're written off as ignorant sheep and their opinions are completely disgarded. Talk about intolerance.

[BlackAdder]

Dude... 5 posts and you think you know me huh lol? How the fuck would you know if I had? lol......


"Ok, maybe Al Qaeda is religious, but we have Christian Fundamentalists in this country who are just as bad, and don't kid yourself into thinking we don't. The KKK will commit just as many atrocities in the name of Christianity as AQ will in the name of Islam. "


I think your proving our point right here sucker....

NEXT........

[marquis999]

You've got it backwards. 769 posts and I think I know you. 5 posts and you think you know me?

A man is known by what he says and does, not what he's told. You seem to do a lot of talking, not much of it out your mouth.

[chefmike]

Interesting stuff on fire and brimstone from the flaky deepak chopra.
He's flaky, although compared to most xians, he's a friggin genius...

courtesy of www.huffingtonpost.com
and of course all of those who have died for your sins...

Satan Leaves The Scene
by Deepak Chopra

If you Google the phrase "Americans believe in heaven," you find that about 90 percent do, with 75 percent believing in hell and 70 percent in the devil. Those statistics remain fairly uniform from poll to poll; it's strange that there's a drop off between heaven and hell since the two go together.

However, it seems possible that believing in the devil is a matter of having nothing better to put in his place. Evil so perplexes people that attributing it to a cosmic Prince of Darkness provides some explanation at least. It saves the trouble of taking responsibility for it ourselves.

As a practical matter Satan is all but useless. The number of people who have met him or been possessed by him is minuscule. After coming back from near-death experiences, only a small fraction of reports picture hell and its torments; the vast majority experience a benign light and feel a divine presence. Perhaps this is a sign that Satan is withering away --over 85 percent of Americans say that they expect to go to heaven, and fear of hell isn't used so intensely by religion to frighten children anymore.

Despite the prominent place that sin and the devil occupies in fundamentalism of every stripe, Satan has been evolving over the years. Theologians have variously described him as an archetype, myth, psychological projection, and a symptom of guilt and shame. It is indisputable that Satan rises and falls according to changing conditions in society.

Satan becomes more real under the following conditions:

--People feel they deserve punishment instead of healing.
--A culture believes in the Satan myth.
--Believers pay attention to that myth and give it value.
--Guilt is projected outward on to demons instead of healed inside.
--Wrong-doing accumulates without a means for finding forgiveness, atonement, or purification.
--Children are put in fear of demons and told that they have power.

Satan becomes less real under the following conditions:

--People feel they deserve healing instead of punishment.
--A culture is aware of how myths are made.
--People are self-aware and take responsibility for their own emotions.
--There is a belief in forgiveness, healing, and atonement.
--Outlets for negative energies are found (through therapy, sports, open dialogue, healthy family dynamics, education, etc.)
--Children are not conditioned to believe in demons ad other external enemies.
--Society promotes the evolution of consciousness.

By these standards one can say that modern America is moving further away from Satan, as it has been for a century. Perhaps that sounds too optimistic given the prevalence of fundamentalism in the churches, but I take heart that dying people no longer tremble at the prospect of meeting Satan and that those who come back from near-death experiences haven't met him. Slim evidence, I know, but promising.

[Felicia Katt]

I think its not that people aren't meeting him, just not recognizing him LOL

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist

FK

[Ecstatic]

Satan becomes more real under the following conditions:

--People feel they deserve punishment instead of healing.
--A culture believes in the Satan myth.
--Believers pay attention to that myth and give it value.
--Guilt is projected outward on to demons instead of healed inside.
--Wrong-doing accumulates without a means for finding forgiveness, atonement, or purification.
--Children are put in fear of demons and told that they have power.

Sounds like Deepak has been hanging with J. :twisted:

[BlackAdder]

Ummm...yeah.....

You do realize none of us are talking with our mouths right? Or were you speaking figuratively Marquis999?


You dont know shit about me heh...

Nice try though.