Obama's Speech was awesome

[MrsKellyPierce]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP

[BellaBellucci]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Way to quote a Facebook status. :lol:

Oh, and if you think anything Obama is trying to do is new or original, you forget your history. :geek:

~BB~

[Donkey]

Social Security is the greatest Ponzi Scheme ever perpetrated on the world. It makes Madoff look like a rank amateur.

[BluegrassCat]

Social Security is the greatest Ponzi Scheme ever perpetrated on the world. It makes Madoff look like a rank amateur.

These comments crack me up. If this was satire, well done sir. If not then you clearly have no clue what a ponzi scheme is.

[BellaBellucci]

These comments crack me up. If this was satire, well done sir. If not then you clearly have no clue what a ponzi scheme is.

Really? That's funny. A Ponzi scheme is when an investment broker uses someone else's money to pay the return on your investment. Isn't that precisely what social security does? Sure, our elders paid into the system and deserve to get their return, but they aren't being paid back with the gains from their investments, they're being paid back by those of us who work and pay into the system now. So actually, it's a textbook Ponzi scheme, even if it's well-intended.

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UPco-sign its too bad the tea party runs america as they keep its people hostage.

[BellaBellucci]

co-sign its too bad the tea party runs america as they keep its people hostage.

Damn Cananadadians. Always talking shit. :lol:

Where've you been girl? :fuckin:

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Damn Cananadadians. Always talking shit. :lol:

Where've you been girl? :fuckin:

~BB~golfing lol it isnt always 50 below in canada ya know lol

[Faldur]

Glad to see you've found the political forum Kelly.

[BluegrassCat]

Really? That's funny. A Ponzi scheme is when an investment broker uses someone else's money to pay the return on your investment. Isn't that precisely what social security does? Sure, our elders paid into the system and deserve to get their return, but they aren't being paid back with the gains from their investments, they're being paid back by those of us who work and pay into the system now. So actually, it's a textbook Ponzi scheme, even if it's well-intended.
~BB~

That's a funny textbook you got there. Might do more good (& less harm) as a paperweight though. Ponzi schemes involve fraudulently bringing in new investors who don't know where their money goes or comes from. SS is totally transparent. By your definition everything that counts on future gains is a ponzi scheme: private investments, 401k etc. Hell even reproduction is a ponzi scheme because we're putting in all this work on the Ponzi assumption that the kids will grow up someday & continue the species.
The most important distinction is that Ponzi schemes implode quite quickly. Otherwise they'd be Ponzi Amazing Investments. SS has been successfully performing for 70 years & will continue to do so, at a minimum of 75% of full benefits if we do nothing at all It could easily be 100% or more with a small tax adjustment.

[AmyDaly]

So if it isn't a ponzi scheme, what is it if the young people being forced to pay into SS are never going to get to see the money when we get older???

[kaiser1one]

A sub-ponzi scheme?

[fxtech]

About Obama's speech...

First, it was an election speech that he got all the tv networks and congress to sponsor for free!

Second, he knows that congress will not pass 90% of what his "Back to work" plan. Conress will not give him another half trillion dollars. They already gave him a trillion for his first stimulas. That was money well spent (not). Obama does give good speeches, but his new plan is the same plan that has already failed. The first thing Obama said last night that his new plan is already paid for. lie, lie , lie! He's making congress come up with budget cuts to pay for his plan, with which they have not done and through higher taxes. Obama threw this nonsensical plan out there, first, because he hasn't had a plan, and second, so he can point his finger at conress at re-election time and say they won't let him get anything done. Obama's first 2 years in office his excuse for everything was "it's Bush's fault" his last 2 years in office his excuse is congress. Obama coudn't lead a sandwich out of a paper bag! The U.S. is in big trouble and it's unfortunate our leaders take no responsibility! Please Americans, be wise during the 2012 elections.

[Jackal]

Actually, the first stimulus was infected with compromise and spending on crap like tax cuts for the rich. The corporate execs have not created jobs in the last decade and will not be interested any time soon in doing so. They do not give a shit about advocating for American workers, just profits; so why trust them? The plight of the American people will not be alleviated by amoral businessmen and their organizations, the same ones who wrecked the economy in the first place.

[lisaparadise]

So if it isn't a ponzi scheme, what is it if the young people being forced to pay into SS are never going to get to see the money when we get older???its far from a ponzi scheme thats what mit romny and his republicans want you to believe and trust me they have been saying that about old age pension for years.dont believe everything you hear there sexy sister.

[sdc1989]

So if it isn't a ponzi scheme, what is it if the young people being forced to pay into SS are never going to get to see the money when we get older???

A ponzi scheme promises a ridiculous, and unattainable, return on your money and is dependent on unsustainable progression. Its primary reason to exist is to make money for the man in charge of it. Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system where today's worker pay for today's beneficiaries. Social Security, as the way it is right now, will be solvent until 2037 or so. The official who runs Social Security makes about $200,000 a year, as opposed to Bernie Madoff, who made untold amounts of money. The concern you raise about Social Security's long-term solvency is valid, but that doesn't make it a ponzi scheme.

I'm kind of new here, so please accept my apology if it seems like I'm jumping out of nowhere with some long-winded post!

[BellaBellucci]

That's a funny textbook you got there. Might do more good (& less harm) as a paperweight though. Ponzi schemes involve fraudulently bringing in new investors who don't know where their money goes or comes from. SS is totally transparent. By your definition everything that counts on future gains is a ponzi scheme: private investments, 401k etc. Hell even reproduction is a ponzi scheme because we're putting in all this work on the Ponzi assumption that the kids will grow up someday & continue the species.
The most important distinction is that Ponzi schemes implode quite quickly. Otherwise they'd be Ponzi Amazing Investments. SS has been successfully performing for 70 years & will continue to do so, at a minimum of 75% of full benefits if we do nothing at all It could easily be 100% or more with a small tax adjustment.

That's not what I'm saying. Private investments are made at the discretion and risk of the investor. With SS, we're all investors and we're all at risk of having reduced benefits if we do nothing, and it's mandatory, which is even worse. I could point to data that suggests that SS is worse off than you think, but that's not really what this is about and, let's face it, is highly speculative either way. My problem with SS is that anything that creates a situation in which the vulnerable count on the future gains of OTHERS over whom they have no control, or even the ability to opt out, is awfully close to a Ponzi scheme. Maybe I was being a bit too simplistic, but you really have got to see the similarities in structure.

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

About Obama's speech...

First, it was an election speech that he got all the tv networks and congress to sponsor for free!

Second, he knows that congress will not pass 90% of what his "Back to work" plan. Conress will not give him another half trillion dollars. They already gave him a trillion for his first stimulas. That was money well spent (not). Obama does give good speeches, but his new plan is the same plan that has already failed. The first thing Obama said last night that his new plan is already paid for. lie, lie , lie! He's making congress come up with budget cuts to pay for his plan, with which they have not done and through higher taxes. Obama threw this nonsensical plan out there, first, because he hasn't had a plan, and second, so he can point his finger at conress at re-election time and say they won't let him get anything done. Obama's first 2 years in office his excuse for everything was "it's Bush's fault" his last 2 years in office his excuse is congress. Obama coudn't lead a sandwich out of a paper bag! The U.S. is in big trouble and it's unfortunate our leaders take no responsibility! Please Americans, be wise during the 2012 elections.its fuckin stupid idiots like yourself that got you in trouble in the first place no wonder the rest of the world thinks americans are stupid and uneducated.but what do you expect when half of america are republicans lol what a joke.if you wanna fix america then get rid of all republicans as there a dying breed and religeon nutjobs and the most hypacritical human beings on earth period.you wanna see a recovery then get the housing mess cleaned up first, after all thats what got you people in a reccession in the first place.

[Dino Velvet]

its fuckin stupid idiots like yourself that got you in trouble in the first place no wonder the rest of the world thinks americans are stupid and uneducated.but what do you expect when half of america are republicans lol what a joke.if you wanna fix america then get rid of all republicans as there a dying breed and religeon nutjobs and the most hypacritical human beings on earth period.you wanna see a recovery then get the housing mess cleaned up first, after all thats what got you people in a reccession in the first place.

Lisa... I like you... You know that. That being said, are you really the one to critique us on our intelligence? Please stop. Help yourself at least. I still like you but sometimes you should be seen more and heard less. Sorry babe.

[needsum]

you wanna see a recovery? don't point to one side over the other. I tell you what we do for a real recovery. Make politicians' salaries all reward-based. They all must volunteer for their position on the basis that they will not make money or have a career, rather, that they will work toward a positive goal and if achieved they will get paid for their erfforts. Then eliminate every lobbyist alive. After that, you'll see how many REAL politicians are left who want to do the right thing and fix this mess of a country. Oh, and also, get rid of the 2-party system. This isn't the repubs fault, or the dems fault. The fault lies in each and every one of us and the choices we make on a day to day basis. We want the world and we want it now, consequences be damned, and then when it comes time to pick leaders, we get funneled into a choice of two. To me, it seems ridiculous to not make it feasable for at least a third party to have a fighting chance. Then you might actually see a candidate who truly holds the beliefs of the majority of the population.

[lisaparadise]

Lisa... I like you... You know that. That being said, are you really the one to critique us on our intelligence? Please stop. Help yourself at least. I still like you but sometimes you should be seen more and heard less. Sorry babe.what are you stupid?i ran 3 dealerships making over 100 gs a year dont talk to me about intelligence cause you people have a ways to go to keep up with me bitch.

[needsum]

intelligents?

[Dino Velvet]

what are you stupid?i ran 3 dealerships making over 100 gs a year dont talk to me about intelligents cause you people have a ways to go to keep up with me bitch.

Ummm... OK. I was looking out for a friend who accidentally steps in it every once in awhile. The "Dumb American" comments are corny. This isn't a contest. No need to feel defensive.

[BluegrassCat]

That's not what I'm saying. Private investments are made at the discretion and risk of the investor. With SS, we're all investors and we're all at risk of having reduced benefits if we do nothing, and it's mandatory, which is even worse. I could point to data that suggests that SS is worse off than you think, but that's not really what this is about and, let's face it, is highly speculative either way. My problem with SS is that anything that creates a situation in which the vulnerable count on the future gains of OTHERS over whom they have no control or even the ability to opt out is awfully close to a Ponzi scheme. Maybe I was being a bit too simplistic, but you really have got to see the similarities in structure.

~BB~

I get that you're a libertarian & object to the mandatory nature of the program but that's a separate issue from whether it's a ponzi scheme. Sdc above sums it up nicely. It's a program that taxes now to pay now, much like the rest of government. And the fact that were having this discussion about reduced benefits 20 years before it happens illustrates just how not a ponzi scheme it is.

[BellaBellucci]

I get that you're a libertarian & object to the mandatory nature of the program but that's a separate issue from whether it's a ponzi scheme. Sdc above sums it up nicely. It's a program that taxes now to pay now, much like the rest of government. And the fact that were having this discussion about reduced benefits 20 years before it happens illustrates just how not a ponzi scheme it is.

I hope you're right. :geek:

~BB~

[TSMichelleAustin]

you wanna see a recovery? don't point to one side over the other. I tell you what we do for a real recovery. Make politicians' salaries all reward-based. They all must volunteer for their position on the basis that they will not make money or have a career, rather, that they will work toward a positive goal and if achieved they will get paid for their erfforts. Then eliminate every lobbyist alive. After that, you'll see how many REAL politicians are left who want to do the right thing and fix this mess of a country. Oh, and also, get rid of the 2-party system. This isn't the repubs fault, or the dems fault. The fault lies in each and every one of us and the choices we make on a day to day basis. We want the world and we want it now, consequences be damned, and then when it comes time to pick leaders, we get funneled into a choice of two. To me, it seems ridiculous to not make it feasable for at least a third party to have a fighting chance. Then you might actually see a candidate who truly holds the beliefs of the majority of the population.

I totally agree with this! Too bad our country will never come to it! Its all about what side can have the most power. I mean look at the Rep. Race right now! You have so many running that are jokes!!!! There are things from both sides that I like and dislike... Last election I didnt favor either one! Still wouldnt! LOL!

[Silcc69]

You know if we'd just stop shipping all our friggin jobs to China we'd be in great shape. It's ironic that a a CAPITALIST country is so involved with a COMMUNIST country.

[BluegrassCat]

About Obama's speech...
Conress will not give him another half trillion dollars. They already gave him a trillion for his first stimulas. That was money well spent (not). Obama does give good speeches, but his new plan is the same plan that has already.

FYI the stimulus worked wonderfully. It kept the economy from plunging into a depression. Problem was it wasn't big enough. More stimulus is exactly what we need.

[Dino Velvet]

You know if we'd just stop shipping all our friggin jobs to China we'd be in great shape. It's ironic that a a CAPITALIST country is so involved with a COMMUNIST country.

I agree.

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Obama+Attends+Meeting+Economic+Recovery+Advisory+R W5ifrRW3S8l.jpg

[baller1987]

I just hope he spends most of this money on smart things, like infastructure, and if he has some left over, doesnt spend it just to spend it. half a trill is a lot more money for us young people to pay off.

I just hope he learned from the mistakes in the last one. Id rather just have spending cuts, but I wish him the best of luck.

[baller1987]

Oh yeah and B Rock should make China stop printing money so their currency goes down and they can make goods cheaper. It's cheating. We should put a tariff on their goods till they play fair

[BellaBellucci]

You know if we'd just stop shipping all our friggin jobs to China we'd be in great shape. It's ironic that a a CAPITALIST country is so involved with a COMMUNIST country.

... and vice-versa. China is the top investor in U.S. debt. Shameful.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

~BB~

[BluegrassCat]

... and vice-versa. China is the top investor in U.S. debt. Shameful.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

~BB~

China is the biggest FOREIGN holder of debt. The biggest overall is the US government. The 3rd biggest holder overall are American households. What's so shameful about that?

[BellaBellucci]

China is the biggest FOREIGN holder of debt. The biggest overall is the US government. The 3rd biggest holder overall are American households. What's so shameful about that?

Our trade deficit with them, their human rights abuses (particularly workers' rights - or lack thereof), and their insistence in playing currency valuation games scare the hell out of me.

~BB~

[BluegrassCat]

Our trade deficit with them, their human rights abuses (particularly workers' rights - or lack thereof), and their insistence in playing currency valuation games scare the hell out of me.

~BB~

Agreed.

[Silcc69]

Our trade deficit with them, their human rights abuses (particularly workers' rights - or lack thereof), and their insistence in playing currency valuation games scare the hell out of me.

~BB~

They seem to do what they want to do. And since we have so much debt tied to them and so many of our companies using them for manufacturing, who can really blame them. Money talks and bullshit walks.

[giovanni_hotel]

Really? That's funny. A Ponzi scheme is when an investment broker uses someone else's money to pay the return on your investment. Isn't that precisely what social security does? Sure, our elders paid into the system and deserve to get their return, but they aren't being paid back with the gains from their investments, they're being paid back by those of us who work and pay into the system now. So actually, it's a textbook Ponzi scheme, even if it's well-intended.

~BB~


A ponzi scheme is a financial gambit whose sole intent is to DEFRAUD investors and allow the originator of that ponzi scheme to get rich quickly.

Why is SS bordering on insolvency in 50 years?? Because Congress has borrowed from the SS lock box to pay for other government programs, not because of something inherently flawed in the program itself.

SS is some respects may resemble a Ponzi scheme, but at it's core and in it's specifics, it is NOT.

Textbook?? Well-intentioned?? WTF does that mean??

It's either a ponzi scheme, a criminal securities enterprise, or it's not.

Be careful of repeating Right wing talking points. They've been against SS in principle and theory since the program's inception.
Why?? Because they want everyone to invest in private retirement funds administered by Wall Street traders.

If Dubya had been successful in privatizing SS, I don't have to tell you what would have happened during the recent stock market crash.

Grandma would be stealing her kitty's cat food and drinking water out of the toilet bowl.

[BellaBellucci]

Agreed.


They seem to do what they want to do. And since we have so much debt tied to them and so many of our companies using them for manufacturing, who can really blame them. Money talks and bullshit walks.

I'm also worried that if we don't renegotiate our agreements with them, there could be armed conflict. I'm honestly much more worried about China than I am North Korea or Iran. I think they could prove to be the largest (and most looming) threat we have faced so far. I suspect there could be another cold war on the horizon.

Or not. The UN has said on numerous occasions that China's government is the model upon which they would shape a one-world government. Continents are already consolidating power (EU, AU, NAU, etc.), so it's also possible that we'll see a UN-sanctioned, China-dominated world within our lifetimes.

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

Eliminating the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and allowing their top marginal tax rate to return to the 39% level during the Clinton administration would result in $800 billion in revenue to the government, more than enough to pay for BHO's job program.

[BellaBellucci]

A ponzi scheme is a financial gambit whose sole intent is to DEFRAUD investors and allow the originator of that ponzi scheme to get rich quickly.

Why is SS bordering on insolvency in 50 years?? Because Congress has borrowed from the SS lock box to pay for other government programs, not because of something inherently flawed in the program itself.

SS is some respects may resemble a Ponzi scheme, but at it's core and in it's specifics, it is NOT.

Textbook?? Well-intentioned?? WTF does that mean??

It's either a ponzi scheme, a criminal securities enterprise, or it's not.

Be careful of repeating Right wing talking points. They've been against SS in principle and theory since the program's inception.
Why?? Because they want everyone to invest in private retirement funds administered by Wall Street traders.

If Dubya had been successful in privatizing SS, I don't have to tell you what would have happened during the recent stock market crash.

Grandma would be stealing her kitty's cat food and drinking water out of the toilet bowl.

I've already softened my position. What? Do you want blood now? :lol:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bb0Zn3bolTc/Tbvc1qSbNdI/AAAAAAAAByU/6i-5zsqoeTc/s1600/blood_spatter.jpg

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Eliminating the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and allowing their top marginal tax rate to return to the 39% level during the Clinton administration would result in $800 billion in revenue to the government, more than enough to pay for BHO's job program.

'Tax the rich. Feed the poor. 'Til there are no... rich no more.' -Ten Years After

The answer isn't taxing wealthy individuals. It's making companies pay their fair share. Overturning the Supreme Court ruling deeming corporations individual entities would be a good start, but good luck with that. They should pay more income tax for the right to sell their products here and less in payroll tax so that they'll spend money on HR growth. In my view, that's the only real... and fair... solution to this crisis.

~BB~

[Silcc69]

'Tax the rich. Feed the poor. 'Til there are no... rich no more.' -Ten Years After

The answer isn't taxing wealthy individuals. It's making companies pay their fair share. Overturning the Supreme Court ruling deeming corporations individual entities would be a good start, but good luck with that. They should pay more income tax for the right to sell their products here and less in payroll tax so that they'll spend money on HR growth. In my view, that's the only real... and fair... solution to this crisis.

~BB~

Don't they only pay 36% now? Ending the Bush cuts would bring them up to 39%

[BellaBellucci]

Don't they only pay 36% now? Ending the Bush cuts would bring them up to 39%

They should be over 40 and there should be a separate tax on the financial services industry in particular. You know there's a problem when money can make people more money than labor. That's a massive flaw in our system that floats the cash all the way to the top and leaves the rest of us begging for scraps.

~BB~

[TSCURIOUS]

^^ So we "tax the comanies more for the right to sell their products here and less in payroll tax so that they'll spend money on HR growth"
How does that make sense??
What about taxing the foreign companies more that sell their products here?

[BellaBellucci]

^^ So we "tax the comanies more for the right to sell their products here and less in payroll tax so that they'll spend money on HR growth"
How does that make sense??
What about taxing the foreign companies more that sell their products here?

Well, supposedly we do at customs, but I agree that it's not enough. Any company that does business in the U.S. should be taxed at a high rate. We're the world's largest economy. Why are we not using that as leverage? Corporations should be begging us to pay 40% in a world in which our rate is even higher, instead of taking bailouts and pocketing the cash.

HBO Films: Too Big To Fail: Opening The Vault On The Financial Crisis (HBO) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVV6dzDOgQ0)

~BB~

[BluegrassCat]

They should be over 40 and there should be a separate tax on the financial services industry in particularly. You know there's a problem when money can make people more money than labor. That's a massive flaw in our system that floats the cash all the way to the top and leaves the rest of us begging for scraps.

~BB~

Careful, Bella. You're starting to sound like a progressive.

[TSCURIOUS]

The less we tax EVERYONE, the more that EVERYONE has to spend to stimulate the economy. Be that business owners or ditch diggers.
OBOZO will never figure that out.

[Ben]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP

Much prefer the left-leaning Liberal of 2008 than the moderate Republican of 2011....

Obama on Presidential Signing Statements - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seAR1S1Mjkc)

BUT RON PAUL WAS RIGHT. OBAMA DIDN'T REPRESENT ANY CHANGE:

Ron Paul's 2008 Prophecy: Obama = NO Change - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6bdhFt5iJM)

[BellaBellucci]

Careful, Bella. You're starting to sound like a progressive.

How so? Corporations are not people. I don't care what The Supremes (or other libertarians) say. They should pay for the right to exist instead of handing that honor off to individuals in the form of a strangling income tax in a climate which is already stacked against them. This comes down to an argument about the acceptable extent of the right of one person (or in this case corporation) to control another.

And yes, I know there are individual shareholders that profit from the current system, but then I view that as part of the problem as opposed to the solution. I envision a world in which a corporation's stock can be held by only a certain percentage of non-employee shareholders and/or one that allows tax-free employee-owned corporations. But we all know that will never happen because people are too lazy and complacent to control their own destinies, so if we're inextricably tied to the current system, I err on the side of labor.

I'm a Libertarian in that I stand up for the INDIVIDUAL'S rights, and I feel that the current legal concept of the corporation is unconstitutional as is the wage slavery to which our current system has most of us limited.

And for the record, I came to the Libertarian Party from the left, not the right, so there are going to be times when I'm influenced by that side of the aisle, no matter how rare they may be. :lol:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

BUT RON PAUL WAS RIGHT. OBAMA DIDN'T REPRESENT ANY CHANGE:

Ron Paul's 2008 Prophecy: Obama = NO Change - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6bdhFt5iJM)

Rememer: the slogan was 'Hope and Change' when it should have been 'Hope for Change.' Nothing's changed. Obama's an even more willing errand boy than his predecessor.

~BB~

[TSCURIOUS]

OBOZO is a joke and that will be his legacy.
Ron Paul I can deal with - maybe.
BB - love your new "view" I think-

[Ben]

How so? Corporations are not people. I don't care what The Supremes (or other libertarians) say. They should pay for the right to exist instead of handing that honor off to individuals in the form of a strangling income tax in a climate which is already stacked against them. This comes down to an argument about the acceptable extent of the right of one person (or in this case corporation) to control another.

And yes, I know there are individual shareholders that profit from the current system, but then I view that as part of the problem as opposed to the solution. I envision a world in which a corporations stock can be held by only a certain percentage of non-employee shareholders. But we all know that will never happen because people are too lazy and complacent to control their own destinies, so if we're inextricably tied to the current system, I err on the side of labor.

I'm a Libertarian in that I stand up for the INDIVIDUAL'S rights, and I feel that the current legal concept of the corporation is unconstitutional as is the wage slavery to which our current system currently has most of us limited.

And for the record, I came to the Libertarian Party from the left, not the right, so there are going to be times when I'm influenced by that side of the aisle, no matter how rare they might be. :lol:

~BB~

Bella, would you classify/categorize yourself as a left-leaning Libertarian? In Europe the notion of Libertarian means of the left. And yes it means NO State. But it'd be very difficult to just get rid of the State, say, tomorrow -- ha ha ha! I mean, the State does have a huge role in the economy.

Libertarian Ron Paul - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrlV0lhfMac)

Ron Paul on Principles of the Libertarian Conservative - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6OJMta2Pss)

John Stewart endorses Ron Paul! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AssBkN17no4)

[natina]

Amazon.com: Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) (9781591841913): David Cay Johnston: Books

More NEOCons on Welfare than Liberals. You have to





include Corporate Welfare, Pentegon Contracts, Agriculture, and Oil industries when talking about Welfare.



And the blood sucking Welfare winners are:





neocons

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417XQ0XwQuL.@@AMEPARAM@@417XQ0XwQuL (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917#_?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

ORANGE COUNTY WAS PRIMARILY WHITE MIDDLE CLASS



and now because of the BUSH ERA,

the housing market scam,the stock market scandal,the pyramid schemers has become a place where............

take note people are driving around with NO CAR INSURANCE because they have to choose between eating,shelter and other basic

OR
paying for insurance

MANY insurance company warned me about orange county and not having full coverage/gap coverage etc......yada yada yada

once middle class people or going to get free groceries and other items because they are financial in trouble/have hit a low ect.....


THE OC WAS HIT HARD BY THE REAL ESTATE BUBBLE I.E.
OVER EVALUATION OF PROPERTY VALUES,upside down mortgages,variable interest rate loans/high interest rate loans .


Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vBhL9igOL.@@AMEPARAM@@41vBhL9igOL (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917#_?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lanA6RJSL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg



I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP

[natina]

CORPORATE WELFARE:How would you like to pay only a quarter of the real estate taxes you owe on your home?



CORPORATE WELFARE

How would you like to pay only a quarter of the real estate taxes you owe on your home? And buy everything for the next 10 years without spending a single penny in sales tax? Keep a chunk of your paycheck free of income taxes? Have the city in which you live lend you money at rates cheaper than any bank charges? Then have the same city install free water and sewer lines to your house, offer you a perpetual discount on utility bills--and top it all off by landscaping your front yard at no charge?

Fat chance. You can't get any of that, of course. But if you live almost anywhere in America, all around you are taxpayers getting deals like this. These taxpayers are called corporations, and their deals are usually trumpeted as "economic development" or "public-private partnerships." But a better name is corporate welfare. It's a game in which governments large and small subsidize corporations large and small, usually at the expense of another state or town and almost always at the expense of individual and other corporate taxpayers.

Two years after Congress reduced welfare for individuals and families, this other kind of welfare continues to expand, penetrating every corner of the American economy. It has turned politicians into bribery specialists, and smart business people into con artists. And most surprising of all, it has rarely created any new jobs.

While corporate welfare has attracted critics from both the left and the right, there is no uniform definition. By TIME's definition, it is this: any action by local, state or federal government that gives a corporation or an entire industry a benefit not offered to others. It can be an outright subsidy, a grant, real estate, a low-interest loan or a government service. It can also be a tax break--a credit, exemption, deferral or deduction, or a tax rate lower than the one others pay.

The rationale to curtail traditional welfare programs, such as Aid to Families with Dependent Children and food stamps, and to impose a lifetime limit on the amount of aid received, was compelling: the old system didn't work. It was unfair, destroyed incentive, perpetuated dependence and distorted the economy. An 18-month TIME investigation has found that the same indictment, almost to the word, applies to corporate welfare. In some ways, it represents pork-barrel legislation of the worst order. The difference, of course, is that instead of rewarding the poor, it rewards the powerful.

And it rewards them handsomely. The Federal Government alone shells out $125 billion a year in corporate welfare, this in the midst of one of the more robust economic periods in the nation's history. Indeed, thus far in the 1990s, corporate profits have totaled $4.5 trillion--a sum equal to the cumulative paychecks of 50 million working Americans who earned less than $25,000 a year, for those eight years.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,989508,00.html#ixzz1R6ujzwT7

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,989508,00.html


http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/library/Deficit-boat-7-15-10-web.jpg

[Silcc69]

Rememer: the slogan was 'Hope and Change' when it should have been 'Hope for Change.' Nothing's changed. Obama's an even more willing errand boy than his predecessor.

~BB~

Well there was change I mean Obama was the first "colored" president.

[natina]

Capitalism for the middle class, socialism for the rich, indeed



The middle class and poor get crumbs from measly "bailouts" such as the lackluster sub-prime mortgage assistance program and a tax rebate check for $600; while the rich get more tangible bailouts to the tune of billions. Capitalism for the middle class, socialism for the rich, indeed! This is what you get when corrupt Republicans and the Corporate sociopathic personality rule the economy. One of the ways to change this dynamic is to remove corporation's status as a separate entity unbound by individual consequences and place more responsibility on the executives that direct corporate actions.



We need to end the the welfare era for the rich via tax cuts, Halliburton / war "no bid" handouts, oil company gouging and corporate bailouts. Instead, the American government needs to lift the middle class with investments in education, job training, energy independence (from domestic oil companies too!), health care and economic programs such as small business development and tangible mortgage assistance.



The only choice for fiscal conservatives in this election is Obama. By electing Obama POTUS and other fiscally sympathetic representatives, the middle class can then exercise its newfound power over insurance companies, corporations and bankers. You want us to bail you out? Here are some of our demands:



Will the tide finally turn during an Obama Presidency? After analyzing Obama's economic positions (including health care, tax policies and budgeting), most economists say "yes!"



After eight years of the Bush Presidency, McCain style deregulation and tax policy that favors the rich, the American middle class has been taken hostage and told they will lose everything (trickle down financial ruin) if they do not bailout the big banks, investment firms and insurance companies. Bush & Cheney have perfected the panic mode wealth transfer that Naomi Klein describes so well in "The Shock Doctrine." This multi-trillion-dollar parting gift is their payback to the upper class that helped orchestrate their election



The middle class and poor get crumbs from measly "bailouts" such as the lackluster sub-prime mortgage assistance program and a tax rebate check for $600; while the rich get more tangible bailouts to the tune of billions. Capitalism for the middle class, socialism for the rich, indeed! This is what you get when corrupt Republicans and the Corporate sociopathic personality rule the economy. One of the ways to change this dynamic is to remove corporation's status as a separate entity unbound by individual consequences and place more responsibility on the executives that direct corporate actions.



We need to end the the welfare era for the rich via tax cuts, Halliburton / war "no bid" handouts, oil company gouging and corporate bailouts. Instead, the American government needs to lift the middle class with investments in education, job training, energy independence (from domestic oil companies too!), health care and economic programs such as small business development and tangible mortgage assistance.



The only choice for fiscal conservatives in this election is Obama. By electing Obama POTUS and other fiscally sympathetic representatives, the middle class can then exercise its newfound power over insurance companies, corporations and bankers. You want us to bail you out? Here are some of our demands:







http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-garibaldi-frick/upper-class-pillaging_b_135892.html



Amazon.com: Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) (9781591841913): David Cay Johnston: Books

More NEOCons on Welfare than Liberals. You have to





include Corporate Welfare, Pentegon Contracts, Agriculture, and Oil industries when talking about Welfare.



And the blood sucking Welfare winners are:





neocons

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917#_?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

ORANGE COUNTY WAS PRIMARILY WHITE MIDDLE CLASS



and now because of the BUSH ERA,

the housing market scam,the stock market scandal,the pyramid schemers has become a place where............

take note people are driving around with NO CAR INSURANCE because they have to choose between eating,shelter and other basic

OR
paying for insurance

MANY insurance company warned me about orange county and not having full coverage/gap coverage etc......yada yada yada

once middle class people or going to get free groceries and other items because they are financial in trouble/have hit a low ect.....


THE OC WAS HIT HARD BY THE REAL ESTATE BUBBLE I.E.
OVER EVALUATION OF PROPERTY VALUES,upside down mortgages,variable interest rate loans/high interest rate loans .


Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917#_?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lanA6RJSL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/library/Deficit-boat-7-15-10-web.jpg

[BellaBellucci]

Bella, would you classify/categorize yourself as a left-leaning Libertarian? In Europe the notion of Libertarian means of the left. And yes it means NO State. But it'd be very difficult to just get rid of the State, say, tomorrow -- ha ha ha! I mean, the State does have a huge role in the economy.

I consider myself a Centrist Libertarian. Sometimes the answer is to look left, sometimes the answer is to look right. If it lowers the size and scope of government and transfers more power to the individual, I'm all for it.


Well there was change I mean Obama was the first "colored" president.

Yeah, seriously, right?! :lol:

Sorry I have to shout, but people still don't seem to get that HE'S NOT BLACK, PEOPLE!!! Blacks are ancestors of slaves. Obama may be part Afro-American, but he is not Black. He was born in Hawaii. Does that make him Polynesian? :rolleyes:

~BB~

[natina]

Red States are “Welfare Queen” States



Happily, the Tax Foundation — a conservative Washington-based think tank — has, however unintentionally, provided the answer. In 2007, the foundation published a survey of 2005 federal spending in each state and compared that with each state’s contribution in federal taxes. In other words, the foundation identified the states that sponge off the federal government and those that subsidize it. The welfare-queen states and the responsible, producing states, as it were.

The list, alas, hasn’t been updated — in part, no doubt, because conservatives didn’t like what it revealed: that those states that got more back from our government than they paid in were overwhelmingly Republican.

The 10 biggest net recipients of taxpayers’ largess were, in order, New Mexico, Mississippi, Alaska, Louisiana, West Virginia, North Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, Kentucky and Virginia. The 10 states that paid in the most and got back the least were New Jersey, Nevada, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Illinois, Delaware, California, New York and Colorado.

http://sierrafoothillsreport.com/2011/05/18/red-states-are-welfare-queen-states/

The authors answer to budget cuts? Stop sending those states the money.


http://jonbrome.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/welfare.jpg


Red States are “Welfare Queen” States /The list, alas, hasn’t been updated — in part, no doubt, because conservatives didn’t like what it revealed: that those states that got more back from our government than they paid in were overwhelmingly Republican

[Silcc69]

I consider myself a Centrist Libertarian. Sometimes the answer is to look left, sometimes the answer is to look right. If it lowers the size and scope of government and transfers more power to the individual, I'm all for it.



Yeah, seriously, right?! :lol:

Sorry I have to shout, but people still don't seem to get that HE'S NOT BLACK, PEOPLE!!! Blacks are ancestors of slaves. Obama may be part Afro-American, but he is not Black. He was born in Hawaii. Does that make him Polynesian? :rolleyes:

~BB~

Do you really think some of these racist republicans care about that technicality? And before somebody gets pissed off not all republicans are racist but some obviously are.

[loren]

The answer isn't taxing wealthy individuals.

:iagree:If the government would increase the tax base, they would get a lot more money. When you consider that about 50% of Americans pay no taxes, and about half of these get money from the government.

[BellaBellucci]

Do you really think some of these racist republicans care about that technicality? And before somebody gets pissed off not all republicans are racist but some obviously are.

Nope. Not at all. I think they're too busy patting themselves on the back for not being racist.

'I'm not racist; I've got a black friend' has been replaced by 'I'm not racist; I voted for Obama.' In fact, that very mindset alone is what's really racist, but hey... it got the guy elected, so more power to him, politically speaking. Legally, I'd like to see him have less. :lol:

~BB~

[fred41]

Do you really think some of these racist republicans care about that technicality? And before somebody gets pissed off not all republicans are racist but some obviously are.


...so are democrats...so are a percentage of every political party. Why? Because a good percentage of all people are racist...(when racist = prejudice).

[Silcc69]

...so are democrats...so are a percentage of every political party. Why? Because a good percentage of all people are racist...(when racist = prejudice).

Just like there are homophobic democrats. But some simply like to be out and open with there prejudice. There was a republican I cant remember his name but a reporter asked him about denouncing the racism in the Tea Party. He then danced around the question. I don't believe one minute that he was racist but simply playing to his base.

[fred41]

Just like there are homophobic democrats. But some simply like to be out and open with there prejudice. There was a republican I cant remember his name but a reporter asked him about denouncing the racism in the Tea Party. He then danced around the question. I don't believe one minute that he was racist but simply playing to his base.

Well...if he doesn't believe that the tea party is based on any racism, then he isn't really dancing around the question.(I THINK I know the example you're giving , but I can't be sure...think it was a while ago)...if you believe the tea party is overtly racist...then you believe that he's dodging the question if he gives any answer other than..."The Racism in the Party means...".

[sdc1989]

Nope. Not at all. I think they're too busy patting themselves on the back for not being racist.

'I'm not racist; I've got a black friend' has been replaced by 'I'm not racist; I voted for Obama.' In fact, that very mindset alone is what's really racist, but hey... it got the guy elected, so more power to him, politically speaking. Legally, I'd like to see him have less. :lol:

~BB~

"I'm not racist, I voted for Obama" didn't replace "I've got black friends", just check the excuses of the multitudes of Tea Party officials fired for obviously racist offenses. But, coming from the rural Midwest, I can testify to the existence of both those memes, and would like to offer another: "Black people can stop whining about racism, we elected a black President after all."

I would call out the claim that racial guilt elected Barack Obama because its obviously bullshit considering 2008 brought the most lopsided electoral results in about 30 years, but it's meant as a joke, so...

[BellaBellucci]

"I'm not racist, I voted for Obama" didn't replace "I've got black friends", just check the excuses of the multitudes of Tea Party officials fired for obviously racist offenses.

I stand corrected. :Bowdown:

~BB~

[sdc1989]

I stand corrected. :Bowdown:

~BB~

The two stand together in perfect facepalm harmony.

[Ben]

I consider myself a Centrist Libertarian. Sometimes the answer is to look left, sometimes the answer is to look right. If it lowers the size and scope of government and transfers more power to the individual, I'm all for it. ~BB~

I, like Glenn Greenwald, veer toward civil libertarianism....
And, too, all forms of concentrated power -- whether it's corporate or government -- are threatening and endanger liberty.
And, too, all power structures have to justify themselves. In whatever circumstance. No power structure is self justifying. They have to, again, prove their power is authentic, is valid.
I mean, say a husband orders his wife around. Well, what's the justification? The burden of proof is on him to prove that his power over her is justified.
So, that extends throughout society. Sometimes power structures are justified. Most times they aren't.

Questions for Glenn Greenwald: Security vs. Liberty - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fQvX-4GeHs)

[BellaBellucci]

I, like Glenn Greenwald, veer toward civil libertarianism....
And, too, all forms of concentrated power -- whether it's corporate or government -- are threatening and endanger liberty.
And, too, all power structures have to justify themselves. In whatever circumstance. No power structure is self justifying. They have to, again, prove their power is authentic, is valid.
I mean, say a husband orders his wife around. Well, what's the justification? The burden of proof is on him to prove that his power over her is justified.
So, that extends throughout society. Sometimes power structures are justified. Most times they aren't.

Questions for Glenn Greenwald: Security vs. Liberty - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fQvX-4GeHs)

Exactly. There are even some porn companies, which need not be named, that prove this rule. :lol:

~BB~

[Silcc69]

Exactly. There are even some porn companies, which need not be named, that prove this rule. :lol:

~BB~

Girl you have to get a dig in every single post.

[BellaBellucci]

Girl you have to get a dig in every single post.

If the shovel fits... :lol:

~BB~

[onmyknees]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP


Kelly...you're a nice person. A bona fide spokesman for your self, and your "community". A sexy lady and an all around fun loving person. You're a fierce self promoter, but that's even cool with me. You'd probably be cool to have dinner or a couple drinks with, but when the conversation turned to policy, economics, or politics...I'd simply say..."check please" You're all those things, but you're also a political and economic neophyte . I'm sorry, but that's the reality. You may know how to make money for yourself to keep you in your lifestyle, but you don't know a damn thing about what it takes to keep anyone else in their's.
This is a fact....so go do your homework and come back and tell me I'm wrong. There has been no plan, no budget, probably not even any discussion by any Republican member of Congress to do a thing to SSI if you're either on it now...or due to be on it in the next 10 years. You're watching too much Rosie O'Donnell or something because you sound foolish. With respect to "pass this now" why didn't you all pass it when you had huge veto proof majorities in Congress, and the White House for 2 solid years ? You could have passed anything you wanted.....so now to blame it on others, or demand that something be done now is good political cover, but it defies reality. Elections have consequences...unfortunately your side didn't fully understand the difference between talking about governing, and actually doing it.Imagine the Democratically controlled Senate has not passed a budget in nearly 3 years...think about that, then get back to me. Now that you don't have the majorities you once had....you blame it on others.

SSI is imminently savable with moderate modifications. Stop being a demagogue.Talk about yourself...you're better at that. It's cool to have an opinion, but make it an informed one.

[giovanni_hotel]

What's hilarious and tragic is EVERYTHING Obama proposed in his jobs bill at one point was championed by GOP Congressmen and Senators.

That's why this country is fucced up, our elected officials on one side of the aisle vote party ideology (if Obama says it, they are opposed to it), before economic and national interests.

Watch and see what happens if a Republican wins the WH.
THe new POTUS will immediately introduce an omninbus jobs bill that will be universally endorsed by the majority of Repubs and Dems. But that will be 'different' because the 'Kenyan' is no longer sleeping in the WH.smh

I don't care if the Democrats have a majority in the Senate, 51 Democratic Senators need NINE Republicans to get anything passed, and that's just not going to happen under the present political climate.
The GOP is playing stall ball until the 2012 elections.

What's 14 more months for Americans who were already swimming upstream in a river of shit anyway??

No modern U.S. President has faced this level of opposition EVER on Capitol Hill. Usually Congress gives the POTUS the benefit of the doubt on his big programs and campaign against him if that agenda fails.

So the new normal is that a controlling party needs 61 Senators and 220 House members to get anything passed??
One party absolute rule used to be called a dictatorship.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh good this thread is still going

[baller1987]

I think i'm done with these politicl posts. it seems nobody listens to each otherand they just want other people to see their views. (hyporcitical i know, but for a point)

[KCBob4TS]

Really? That's funny. A Ponzi scheme is when an investment broker uses someone else's money to pay the return on your investment. Isn't that precisely what social security does? Sure, our elders paid into the system and deserve to get their return, but they aren't being paid back with the gains from their investments, they're being paid back by those of us who work and pay into the system now. So actually, it's a textbook Ponzi scheme, even if it's well-intended.

~BB~

There's a difference. At least a ponzi sceme is voluntary.

Maybe our Imam in Chief can take those 40,000 BofA employees that lost their jobs yesterday and put them to work printing the paper he's going to need for his half a trillion dollar shit sandwich.

Counting the days until this dumb bastard gets fired.

[Faldur]

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP

But he waited 2 1/2 years to even mention the program, (all the while unemployment has been above 9%). Then after he made the country wait until his golf and family vacation were over. And there isn't a bill, he's promising we'll see that maybe next week.

Have Americans become so dumbed down that they can't see a complete political phony? He doesn't care about passing squat, it was obvious in his 2 1/2 years of lack of urgency. "Pass this bill right away!".. there is no friggin bill!

[Tarissa]

His speech knocked 'em dead.......on Wall Street. The Dow was off 300 points the next day. Someone may have metioned this already. If so sorry. He was talking about his plan to create jobs and stimulate the economy and the Dow dropped 300 points. Hello?

We need a business person in the White House (and Senate & Congress). This country's priority needs to be business and then we can pay for all of the entitlements. Change their compensation too. Perform or go hungry.
(My name is Tarissa and I approved this comment).

[sp fan]

if u really feel otoma's speech was awesome your one dumb sheep.

[sdc1989]

There's a difference. At least a ponzi sceme is voluntary.

Maybe our Imam in Chief can take those 40,000 BofA employees that lost their jobs yesterday and put them to work printing the paper he's going to need for his half a trillion dollar shit sandwich.

Counting the days until this dumb bastard gets fired.

Hopefully you were also complaining when George W. Bush slashed revenues AND increased government spending by $1.3 trillion, a lot of which was in support of military action we had no reason to pursue. But judging by your idiotic "Imam in Chief" comment, I doubt it.

Hopefully you've been complaining about how the companies that employ 25 of the 100 highest paid CEO's pay so little in taxes that their CEO's get paid more than the company pays in federal income taxes. But judging by your idiotic "Imam in Chief" comment, I doubt it. I'd say its highly more likely you yell and shout and forward chain e-mails in favor of the political ideology that unabashedly favors these things, but I'd hate to be too forward.

[giovanni_hotel]

His speech knocked 'em dead.......on Wall Street. The Dow was off 300 points the next day. Someone may have metioned this already. If so sorry. He was talking about his plan to create jobs and stimulate the economy and the Dow dropped 300 points. Hello?

We need a business person in the White House (and Senate & Congress). This country's priority needs to be business and then we can pay for all of the entitlements. Change their compensation too. Perform or go hungry.
(My name is Tarissa and I approved this comment).


THe Dow fell more in relation to what's going on in Europe, not because of some speech by the President.
But don't doubt for a second that financial interests are capable and are currently manipulating the Dow on a day to day basis for political gain.

BTW, we just had 8 years of a 'bidnezz man' in the WH. Cheney was also the chair of one the world's largest military contractors (more suckling off the teat of the federal govt.)

And you can only apply certain principles from corporate America to the federal government, but it's a bad model because ultimately the Federal government isn't driven by the profit motive.
THe responsibility of any government is the sustained health and prosperity of its people. There isn't a price tag you can put on building bridges and dams and highways, or improving the public education system.

I will say this, I hope that Romney wins the GOP nomination. He was an effective governor in Massachusetts and more or less respected for his leadership and programs he enacted while serving in office.

He isn't an ideologue or a Tea bagger. He's smart, analytical and won't need his advisors to educate him about the economy and big business. And he's too independently rich to be a bought and sold corporate crony like Perry.

If there's a chance the next POTUS is a Republican, at least choose someone who's competent.

[Tarissa]

Sorry, I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. Just give me the best man or woman for the job. Bush won twice because he was the best choice of the candidates that Americans had. Obama won because he was the best choice of the candidates chosen by Americans. I don't have to agree with either choice.

Bush had no choice to spend to defend our country...10 years tomorrow - 9/11. Recall that tragic day and you know we had to stand up and answer the call of our fallen and our great country. He screwed up too as all Presidents and World Leaders do but I believe in him more than I ever would in Obama.

Again, I do not have a party of preference. I believe Obama is an orator and can, or used to, fire up people with his speaking skills. That's all he brings to the Office except for his polarizing comments and politics. Don't always try to piss off the other party. The last example is his speech on the same day as the debate. What a farce. If you look at it like I do without supporting a party, he's been awful.

Your comment about highly paid CEO's leads to my beliefs that our Commander in Chief should be able to make millions too if she or he can do the job. Like all big countries today the USA is a business. We need a business leader with economic and social acumen to lead us into the future.
GBA

[giovanni_hotel]

There's a difference. At least a ponzi sceme is voluntary.

Maybe our Imam in Chief can take those 40,000 BofA employees that lost their jobs yesterday and put them to work printing the paper he's going to need for his half a trillion dollar shit sandwich.

Counting the days until this dumb bastard gets fired.


If Obama let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire, he could pay for his jobs program twice over.

Bank of America should have been allowed to FAIL. Obama saved those assholes fucking jobs for three years. They should thank him.

[giovanni_hotel]

Sorry, I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. Just give me the best man or woman for the job. Bush won twice because he was the best choice of the candidates that Americans had. Obama won because he was the best choice of the candidates chosen by Americans. I don't have to agree with either choice.

Bush had no choice to spend to defend our country...10 years tomorrow - 9/11. Recall that tragic day and you know we had to stand up and answer the call of our fallen and our great country. He screwed up too as all Presidents and World Leaders do but I believe in him more than I ever would in Obama.

Again, I do not have a party of preference. I believe Obama is an orator and can, or used to, fire up people with his speaking skills. That's all he brings to the Office except for his polarizing comments and politics. Don't always try to piss off the other party. The last example is his speech on the same day as the debate. What a farce. If you look at it like I do without supporting a party, he's been awful.

Your comment about highly paid CEO's leads to my beliefs that our Commander in Chief should be able to make millions too if she or he can do the job. Like all big countries today the USA is a business. We need a business leader with economic and social acumen to lead us into the future.
GBA

You obviously are Conservative leaning. I'm a registered independent but I have NEVER voted for a Republican.
Bush was far from the best choice. See the Florida and Ohio vote counts respectively. (Hanging chads and Diebold voting machines and their proprietary software, anyone?)
Gore had a half million more popular votes than Dubya in 2000,(I can imagine how right wing talk radio would have reacted in that ever happened to a GOP presidential candidate), and in Ohio it was one of the few times ever that exit polls didn't reflect the actual vote count,(thank you Diebold).

I believe in any Presidential election, Americans get the President they deserve, not the one they want.

If a fuck up is sworn in as POTUS, it's the fault of the country, not the candidate.

Yes Bush had an obligation to defend the country after 9/11, he didn't have the right to invade a country and wage war there for 10 years against a nation that DIDN'T ATTACK US.

Repubs bitch about Obama dropping bombs on Libya through our proxy NATO where we didn't lose one U.S. serviceman, but still are justifying the illegal war in Iraq.
Get your story straight.

[BellaBellucci]

I will say this, I hope that Romney wins the GOP nomination. He was an effective governor in Massachusetts and more or less respected for his leadership and programs he enacted while serving in office.

He isn't an ideologue or a Tea bagger. He's smart, analytical and won't need his advisors to educate him about the economy and big business. And he's too independently rich to be a bought and sold corporate crony like Perry.

If there's a chance the next POTUS is a Republican, at least choose someone who's competent.

He's a Mormon. I'm sorry, but that's a deal breaker for me. The group-think and control tactics employed by the LDS are near cult-like as most recently shown by Utah Mormons ramming their social agenda down the throats of Californians with Prop 8. Sorry, but boundary issues = no bueno.

~BB~

[Silcc69]

9 pages and this still hasnt been moved to the politics board yet?

[giovanni_hotel]

He's a Mormon. I'm sorry, but that's a deal breaker for me. The group-think and control tactics employed by the LDS are near cult-like as most recently shown by Utah Mormons ramming their social agenda down the throats of Californians with Prop 8. Sorry, but boundary issues = no bueno.

~BB~


Are you serious?? His Mormonism only became an issue for the fundamentalist Right. It never once impacted his governance in Massachusetts.

It's fun to do, but you can't really generalize about a person of any religious faith.

So JKF was a pawn of the Pope too, huh??

[KCBob4TS]

If Obama let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire, he could pay for his jobs program twice over.

Bank of America should have been allowed to FAIL. Obama saved those assholes fucking jobs for three years. They should thank him.

If you take all the money from people making over a million(not just tax them) that money would keep our government running for about two months. then who you going to tax? How about the 50% of people that don't pay taxes at all but reap all the benefits.

BTW, BofA was just an example(although I'm sure these people had nothing to do with the decisions that you are referring to. If you want to talk about who should have failed let's start with Fannie n Freddie. I forgot. You can't bring that up because it was dems that proped them up and kept them going. Must be my Tea Party feelings showing). I could have used company X instead. The point is Obama is spending half a trillion he doesn't have on jobs that don't exist. Watch him ask the Super Friends panel to find this money while they are looking for the rest.

And I to want the best person for the job. I'd vote for a palm tree if they'd stop this bullshit and run the country right.

[Silcc69]

If you take all the money from people making over a million(not just tax them) that money would keep our government running for about two months. then who you going to tax? How about the 50% of people that don't pay taxes at all but reap all the benefits.

BTW, BofA was just an example(although I'm sure these people had nothing to do with the decisions that you are referring to. If you want to talk about who should have failed let's start with Fannie n Freddie. I forgot. You can't bring that up because it was dems that proped them up and kept them going. Must be my Tea Party feelings showing). I could have used company X instead. The point is Obama is spending half a trillion he doesn't have on jobs that don't exist. Watch him ask the Super Friends panel to find this money while they are looking for the rest.

And I to want the best person for the job. I'd vote for a palm tree if they'd stop this bullshit and run the country right.

Hmmmm

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/08/...d-for-america/ (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/08/24/why-taxing-the-rich-is-good-for-america/)

Bartlett, who culled Internal Revenue Service data for his analysis, which appears this week in his New York Times column (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/what-the-rich-can-afford-in-income-tax/), goes on to say: "If this group were still paying 33.1 percent, federal revenue would have been more than $166 billion higher in 2008 alone. That would be enough to reduce the budget deficit by about 10 percent this year. If the top 1 percent of taxpayers had continued to pay the same effective tax rate they paid in 1986 every year from 1987 to 2008, the federal debt today would be $1.7 trillion lower."
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/report.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/report.php?p=991844)

[jamesedwards]

I would just like to say though to the Congress who don't pass this and the ones against social security, older Americans paid into Social Security with every paycheck. Their benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits - free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days now THAT'S welfare. And Congress has the nerve to call Social Security and Medicare, entitlements? Re-post if you are sick of their crap, and ashamed of our "leaders."

Let's see their benefits and cushion jobs taken away and see how they cry.

Obama was right when he said you want to wait 14 months..Americans don't have 14 months..WAKE UP


A lot of them won't cry, how about some of them going postal and some committing suicide if they lost their cushy positions. This Govt has been corrupt from the day they stole this land, it's nothing new.

[jamesedwards]

its fuckin stupid idiots like yourself that got you in trouble in the first place no wonder the rest of the world thinks americans are stupid and uneducated.but what do you expect when half of america are republicans lol what a joke.if you wanna fix america then get rid of all republicans as there a dying breed and religeon nutjobs and the most hypacritical human beings on earth period.you wanna see a recovery then get the housing mess cleaned up first, after all thats what got you people in a reccession in the first place.

Can't agree with that. The housing thingy was about selling houses with low rates for the morgtage that would lets say be 0.16% then in a couple of years under some micro contract that the buyers didn't see you end up with paying a morgtage of 27% APR which is outrageous. Next thing you know people can't pay all that then the bank gets involved which was involved from the get. That's not what made America fall! Bush spending 80 million a month in a war that America had no business in cause that, it is top #1 on the list and the stupidity of this Govt that made America fall. The US dollar is not worth crap, and the Euro is on the incline.

Corporations like Nike, moving big businesses overseas is another crusher because they take away jobs from Americans because they are greedy and want third world countries to work AS SLAVES! They would rather pay a person in India $2 dollars a week instead of paying the minimum wage of $7.00 usd per hour! Yet they manufacter a pair of Nike sneakers for .25 cents! This govt don't put sanctions on them or hard tarrifs, it's like they protect them, and I say stop buying Nike. These same corporations are suppose to be patriotic yet take jobs away from Americans, I wouldn't buy their shoes for nothing! You want to hurt a company? TAKE THEIR MONEY OUT OF THEIR POCKETS! That's the only language they understand. Fools like Nelly talking ABOUT "MY AIR FORCE 1'S" Nikes in rap videos help gain them more money. Instead he and others shouldn't promote them at all.

Govt spending money on nonsense like space programs etc, and keep taking money from people who work and just getting buy so they can play with their got dam new space a toys. These and others are the elements of America's fall! China had a commercial that said basically Americans are dumb and the lil Chinese children in the commerical laughing, it was snatched off the air quickly! See china is teaching their younger generation that they are smarter and China will be the next problem for America, mark my words.

9/11 was a set up by this Govt and they tried it in 93 but it failed. This Govt's greed and wanting power and killing and rape and murder is all coming back to those old bastards! You do bad it will come back to you in ten fold.

[BellaBellucci]

Are you serious?? His Mormonism only became an issue for the fundamentalist Right. It never once impacted his governance in Massachusetts.

It's fun to do, but you can't really generalize about a person of any religious faith.

So JKF was a pawn of the Pope too, huh??

The LDS 'Church' is no less a cult than Scientology. Would you feel safe with a Scientologist POTUS? I think not.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon387.htm

Oh, and since we're on the topic of Ponzi schemes:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon645.htm

And these are just the tip of the iceberg. As far as Romney's beliefs not affecting his governance of Massachusetts, keep in mind that they couldn't in that state because the voters would bounce him faster than a dodgeball and that wouldn't bode well for his presidential aspirations. On the other hand, there are plenty of constituencies at the national level that consider a cult-like, socially repressive view to be a plus. I don't suspect you're a member of one of those constituencies because you're posting here, yet here you are defending them. :?

8: The Mormon Proposition - Trailer HD 2010 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m76isUF49P8)


So yeah. I'm deadly serious. :geek:

~BB~

[jamesedwards]

8: The Mormon Proposition - Trailer HD 2010 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m76isUF49P8)


So yeah. I'm deadly serious. :geek:

~BB~

Dam that's some serious shit right there. Wow!

[BellaBellucci]

Dam that's some serious shit right there. Wow!

Self proclaimed 'God's Soldiers' are evil. Mormons, as a group, are not only encouraged to be, but are all forced to be so. They even consider themselves to be saints so much so that it's their official title: The Church of Latter-Day Saints. Therefore, by the transitive property, Mormons are evil. The sanctimonious motherfuckers should burn in hell for what they did to our state Constitution.

~BB~

[jamesedwards]

Self proclaimed 'God's Soldiers' are evil. Mormons, as a group, are not only encouraged to be, but are all forced to be so. They even consider themselves to be saints so much so that it's their official title: The Church of Latter-Day Saints. Therefore, by the transitive property, Mormons are evil. The sanctimonious motherfuckers should burn in hell for what they did to our state Constitution.

~BB~

Hey you won't get a debate from me. The shit they porpose is crazy. Indeed you know you're talking about.

[jamesedwards]

5. Secret signs, tokens, passwords to get into Mormon heaven. If one does not have this exclusive information, they will be denied access past certain angels along the way back to God's presence. This is an element of control designed to produce exclusivity

That sounds like some Masonic shit right there. I wouldn't be surprised if they were behind it, for many of the leaders of Masons run churches and mislead people. smh

[onmyknees]

THe Dow fell more in relation to what's going on in Europe, not because of some speech by the President.
But don't doubt for a second that financial interests are capable and are currently manipulating the Dow on a day to day basis for political gain.

BTW, we just had 8 years of a 'bidnezz man' in the WH. Cheney was also the chair of one the world's largest military contractors (more suckling off the teat of the federal govt.)

And you can only apply certain principles from corporate America to the federal government, but it's a bad model because ultimately the Federal government isn't driven by the profit motive.
THe responsibility of any government is the sustained health and prosperity of its people. There isn't a price tag you can put on building bridges and dams and highways, or improving the public education system.

I will say this, I hope that Romney wins the GOP nomination. He was an effective governor in Massachusetts and more or less respected for his leadership and programs he enacted while serving in office.

He isn't an ideologue or a Tea bagger. He's smart, analytical and won't need his advisors to educate him about the economy and big business. And he's too independently rich to be a bought and sold corporate crony like Perry.

If there's a chance the next POTUS is a Republican, at least choose someone who's competent.

Well if your suggestion is that more goes into to the temperament of the Dow than a President's speech....I agree. But stop defending incompetence, and bashing folks you don't agree with. I don't use pejoratives to describes lefties, unless liberal has become a dirty word ! lol A speech does not a 1000 point raise in the Dow make, but his policies, his politics and his failure to instill confidence in the markets absolutely has a correlation. And investors and brokers heard nothing in that speech that provided confidence. He is the most hostile president towards business in a generation, perhaps longer...unless you're GE or a hastily formed "green energy company" , then the full faith and power of the government and it's treasury is at your disposal. lol But GE is shipping most of it's jobs overseas, and green energy has been a huge bust...so you bet wrong Barry ! If you deny that, you simply don't know what you're talking about. You can rail about Bush all you like, but he's in Texas cutting brush, and all the deflection in the world isn't going to give your guy one more bit of competence. First you all blamed Bush, then you blamed the Tea Party, now you're blaming Congress. See a pattern here?When does the blame game stop, and the slow gradual improvement begin? How many more speeches will it take to get us there? Let me know ...please because I'd like to reinvest in the market.

You wanna talk about the markets and a President's impact? ? Go back and look at the markets after 911. They quickly rebounded and actually soared. Why? Maybe it was Bush and Gulliani on the rubble pile...but whatever it was, what many feared to be financial Armageddon, quickly turned into confidence, determination and a booming economy until the sub prime calamity hit in mid to late 2007. Of course you won't give Bush any credit, that's rather evident...but the facts speak for themselves....
Look...we have a guy who's smart, and would make a wonderful university president, but he does not possess the skill sets to run the biggest, most dynamic economy on the face of the earth. Several years as a US Senator working on some marginal legislation does not qualify you. Making stirring speeches won't do it either. It's that simple. You voted for a mirage, and that's what you got, and the results are all the proof one needs. Anything else is just background noise.

[jamesedwards]

But GE is shipping most of it's jobs overseas,


Look...we have a guy who's smart, and would make a wonderful university president, but he does not possess the skill sets to run the biggest, most dynamic economy on the face of the earth. Several years as a US Senator working on some marginal legislation does not qualify you. Making stirring speeches won't do it either. It's that simple. You voted for a mirage, and that's what you got, and the results are all the proof one needs. Anything else is just background noise.

You said some powerful profound things. thumbsup
Dam GE moved to overseas also? See? DAmmmmmmmmmm!

[giovanni_hotel]

Remember when BHO's former Chief of Staff was quoted as saying, 'you don't want to let a serious crisis go to waste,'??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow
It's the central premise behind Naomi Klein's groundbreaking work, 'The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism'. Her central argument is that political and corporate entities have learned to exploit man-made wars, economic collapses and social upheavals and profit from them.
Klein explains how the shock of 9/11 gave Bush and Cheney the green light to invade Iraq, despite the lack of intelligence on the ground to support such an operation.
Remember we supposedly invaded Iraq NOT because they attacked us, but on the assumption they had the weapons technology and contacts within terrorist networks to attack us in the FUTURE. The first pre-emptive large scale war in U.S. history.

Halliburton, the VPs former military contracting firm, was awarded a no-bid contract and was paid HUNDREDS of MILLIONS to provide supports services to our military Iraq, often being paid to do jobs our soldiers in past years had done effectively on their own. Military contractors collectively made billions of dollars of the Iraq war. U.S. oil companies also penned exclusive export deals with the new Iraqi government.

The Shock doctrine is being applied today, except this time it's U.S. corporations who are applying the screws to a fundamental restructuring of our economy.
After the subprime mortgage/derivatives backed securities collapse on Wall Street, there were massive sell offs and firings in all sectors of the economy to recover losses accrued during the market correction.

Once BHO's trillion dollar economic stimulus package (almost half of which were tax cuts) slowed the blood letting, the Dow rebounded but it was a jobless recovery. U.S. companies were making profits less than a year after the greatest Stock Market crash since the Great Depression, but they still weren't hiring back workers.

The Chamber of Commerce claimed U.S. companies wouldn't re-invest back into this economy because suddenly there was too much 'insecurity' with an unknown 'business climate'.
The 'shock' of the Stock Market collapse empowered corporations to push a Democratic president to lower the corporate tax rate, (the statutory rate is 35% but the effective rate for U.S. corporations is HALF that number!!), and get rid of pending finance and healthcare regulations.
Mind you, those trillions in corporate profits are being stored in offshore tax havens.

The drop dead deal BHO is being offered by corporate America; either give us EVERYTHING we want, less regulation across all industries and lower corporate taxes we aren't going to pay in full anyway, or we hold the U.S. economy hostage and keep the unemployment rate at 9+%.

The Shock doctrine in full effect.

Dubya entered office during a recession and left after 8 years still mired in one. Dubya created 3 million net jobs in 8(!!) years, compared to 23 million net jobs during the Clinton administration. Reagan created 16 million net jobs in two terms, Carter created 10 million in one term.
There was no 'booming economy' under Dubya's two terms, unless you were a corporation outsourcing jobs, a worker looking to find a job at Walmart or were selling derivatives on Wall Street. The Stock Market recovered quickly after 9/11. Why shouldn't it have?? Bid Laden didn't bomb the corporate headquarters of any companies.
If cutting taxes created jobs, someone forgot to tell the Bush administration.

In a government run by three co-equal branches, a divided legislature or one driven by partisan ideology more than what's in the long term best interest of the American people can suffocate a U.S. president.
So yes I blame the Tea Party for turning the status quo debt ceiling increase and the national debt 'debate' into issues more important than creating jobs. The Tea Party has devotees in Congress, so I also hold the House of Representatives accountable.

This mess started under Dubya and his unfailing belief in free market capitalism, forgetting along the way the most important jobs in the world are those that employ YOUR OWN PEOPLE, so I hold him accountable too.
At this point it's all about running out the clock on Obama, give him nothing he wants to achieve legislatively and hope the American people blame him for everything.

[jamesedwards]

In a government run by three co-equal branches, a divided legislature or one driven by partisan ideology more than what's in the long term best interest of the American people can suffocate a U.S. president.
So yes I blame the Tea Party for turning the status quo debt ceiling increase and the national debt 'debate' into issues more important than creating jobs. The Tea Party has devotees in Congress, so I also hold the House of Representatives accountable.

This mess started under Dubya and his unfailing belief in free market capitalism, forgetting along the way the most important jobs in the world are those that employ YOUR OWN PEOPLE, so I hold him accountable too.
At this point it's all about running out the clock on Obama, give him nothing he wants to achieve legislatively and hope the American people blame him for everything.

I agree on that Dubya bush messed things up. Also I would like to ask you, when did the Tea Party start? It's like they just came out in like 2007? or 2009? They were not talked about. Let me know when you get the chance.

Under Clinton I remember 97 was a very very very dam good year, whewww! I was only making $37 a year, with overtime I made $51 that year, I still have my imcome tax for that year as a timeless piece! I wish would could go back there. smh

[trish]

Joe Smith was a con man. His hat was a prop and the gold plates with Egyptian hieroglyphs and the angel Moroni are fantasy fiction. His cult followers were scammed and used by Smith to perpetuate the scam. Smith and his followers, stole, raped and murdered everywhere they went. Smith was lynched because he burned down a newspaper that opined against him. So much for the First Amendment.

Anyone, if they're not on their guard, can fall for a con. But to fall for a con that over 150 years old is the height of stupidity. Either Romney's an idiot, or he's just using the power of the cult, like so many others, to accumulate wealth and power. Either way, I don't want him in the White House.

[giovanni_hotel]

The Tea Party has its roots in the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2008, but they didn't fully organize until 2009 when BHO was President.

That's why I feel as if the Tea Party at its heart is more a reaction the presidency of BHO and not driven by a return to fiscally conservative principles and a literal reading of the Constitution.

[jamesedwards]

Joe Smith was a con man. His hat was a prop and the gold plates with Egyptian hieroglyphs and the angel Moroni are fantasy fiction. His cult followers were scammed and used by Smith to perpetuate the scam. Smith and his followers, stole, raped and murdered everywhere they went. Smith was lynched because he burned down a newspaper that opined against him. So much for the First Amendment.

Anyone, if they're not on their guard, can fall for a con. But to fall for a con that over 150 years old is the height of stupidity. Either Romney's an idiot, or he's just using the power of the cult, like so many others, to accumulate wealth and power. Either way, I don't want him in the White House.

I heard that.

[BellaBellucci]

The Tea Party has its roots in the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2008, but they didn't fully organize until 2009 when BHO was President.

It was a much different Tea Party back then. There was no bigotry. It was a movement for cooperation, understanding, smaller government, and lower taxes. I was proud to be a part of it at the time, but I don't recognize it all anymore. It mutated like Swamp Thing. :(

~BB~

[Silcc69]

It was a much different Tea Party back then. There was no bigotry. It was a movement for cooperation, understanding, smaller government, and lower taxes. I was proud to be a part of it at the time, but I don't recognize it all anymore. It mutated like Swamp Thing. :(

~BB~

Palin and Beck took over that is all.

[BellaBellucci]

Palin and Beck took over that is all.

Exactamondo.

~BB~

[jamesedwards]

The Tea Party has its roots in the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2008, but they didn't fully organize until 2009 when BHO was President.

That's why I feel as if the Tea Party at its heart is more a reaction the presidency of BHO and not driven by a return to fiscally conservative principles and a literal reading of the Constitution.

Ok, I am glad I am on track some what, thanks for that. Do you see the tea party as a hender to the nation?

[jamesedwards]

It was a much different Tea Party back then. There was no bigotry. It was a movement for cooperation, understanding, smaller government, and lower taxes. I was proud to be a part of it at the time, but I don't recognize it all anymore. It mutated like Swamp Thing. :(

~BB~

LOL :dead: that's why I love you you always put a twist to shit at the end of a sentence lol

I see the tea party is very racist sort to speak.

[giovanni_hotel]

I'd have respected the Tea Party a whole helluva lot more if they took that supposed 'grassroots' momentum and started a 3rd Party, instead of becoming the crazy uncle of the Republican party.

[jamesedwards]

I'd have respected the Tea Party a whole helluva lot more if they took that supposed 'grassroots' momentum and started a 3rd Party, instead of becoming the crazy uncle of the Republican party.

LOL lmao Man Sarah Palin is a nut case to me, she say shit that is out of wack, she running around saying "WE NEED TO GET RID OF THEM" type shit to suggest motha fuckas shoot people lol and people listen to that shit. She's running around putting gun targets on people, and with a dam bikini on with a dam assault rifle in her fucking hands. I can't fuck with them.

[onmyknees]

I'd have respected the Tea Party a whole helluva lot more if they took that supposed 'grassroots' momentum and started a 3rd Party, instead of becoming the crazy uncle of the Republican party.

GH....no diss, but I really don't think they're lookin for your respect. Of course you'd like them to go 3rd party....then they'd go the way of followers of John Anderson and Ross Perot...into the abyss, or better yet, splinter the GOP. If they went third party in 2010, the liberals would still control the house. There's little power to be had by forming a 3rd party, and besides...they're not a party in the traditional sense. It's a movement . At least the movement is recognizable and definable . The progressives have sliently taken the Democrats so far to the left old time Dems like JFK, Ed Koch, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson and Bill Clinton couldn't even recognize it. They may have been liberals, but they were sane...as opposed to say Nancy Pelosi and Mad Maxine. lol I don't know, but you keep callin' them crazy...and they keep steering the agenda, and they sure got your guy backpeddling. When I hear the absolute hysteria by the left about the Tea Party with respect to thier to thier actual numbers... I wonder...who's crazy now ?

[giovanni_hotel]

What are you talking about??
It's the Tea Party that's shifted the political center of gravity in D.C. Now the litmus test for a 'true conservative' is if you have the Tea Party's Seal of Approval. What does that mean?
Never compromise with Democrats on anything, filibuster until your nose bleeds, sign pledges to never raise taxes and shrink the federal government to the size it was at the turn of the century.

It's moderate Republicans who don't recognize their party anymore, but nice try at projection, OMK.
The Democratic Party ideologically and in a practical sense governs the way moderate conservatives used to, and present day conservatives are now defined by the radical right.
Ronald Reagan would be rejected by the Tea Party, too moderate and willing to compromise with the Democrats. Oh and he liked to raise taxes.

Obama isn't a socialist. He's governed like a moderate conservative which is why progressives are so disappointed in him.
When's the last time Obama let Pelosi/Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus steer his political agenda??? Try NEVER.

Why are the Union leaders pissed with OBama?? Because he's too quick to compromise with Republicans and sacrifice his agenda. BHO is too pragmatic,( ANY deal with Congress is better than none at all!) instead of fighting for what he truly believes in.

The current Tea Party is a fraud movement anyway. It's been bought and sold wholesale by the Koch Brothers.

[SFTB]

Oh good this thread is still going

Yes, I think everyone is waiting to hear what part of Obama's 'jobs plan" you agree on, what parts you think might not work, etc. Or did he just sound good?

Obama will cut deficit in half FEB 2009 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaQUU2ZL6D8)

[lisaparadise]

What are you talking about??
It's the Tea Party that's shifted the political center of gravity in D.C. Now the litmus test for a 'true conservative' is if you have the Tea Party's Seal of Approval. What does that mean?
Never compromise with Democrats on anything, filibuster until your nose bleeds, sign pledges to never raise taxes and shrink the federal government to the size it was at the turn of the century.

It's moderate Republicans who don't recognize their party anymore, but nice try at projection, OMK.
The Democratic Party ideologically and in a practical sense governs the way moderate conservatives used to, and present day conservatives are now defined by the radical right.
Ronald Reagan would be rejected by the Tea Party, too moderate and willing to compromise with the Democrats. Oh and he liked to raise taxes.

Obama isn't a socialist. He's governed like a moderate conservative which is why progressives are so disappointed in him.
When's the last time Obama let Pelosi/Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus steer his political agenda??? Try NEVER.

Why are the Union leaders pissed with OBama?? Because he's too quick to compromise with Republicans and sacrifice his agenda. BHO is too pragmatic,( ANY deal with Congress is better than none at all!) instead of fighting for what he truly believes in.

The current Tea Party is a fraud movement anyway. It's been bought and sold wholesale by the Koch Brothers.you are so freakin dead on.that was a great read tx.

[callahac]

I guess it was great if you are a teacher or a construction worker- for the rest of us it was a joke. Sounds like a nice payoff to two powerful unions that contribute to the Democrat party.

[needsum]

I'd have respected the Tea Party a whole helluva lot more if they took that supposed 'grassroots' momentum and started a 3rd Party, instead of becoming the crazy uncle of the Republican party.

Same here. unfortunately no thrid party will survive unless we find a way to eliminate the two party system entirely. People have a hard time making changes. The idea of change sounds good, OBVIOUSLY..... lol but when it comes time to do it, most will just lazily fall back into routine and just wish something would happen. Politics are too fucking polarized to be effective. Look at this thread alone--both sides have presented good points backed u p with facts. basically you can side with one or the other, but itd be on an emotionally charged decision, as to whether you hate bush or obama.

or you can hang with me in the middle and wait for all of the others to kill each other off, then we'll swoop in and clean house and start fresh:tongue:

[BellaBellucci]

basically you can side with one or the other, but itd be on an emotionally charged decision, as to whether you hate bush or obama.

That's not true. Some of us hate them both. :lol:

~BB~

[needsum]

That's not true. Some of us hate them both. :lol:

~BB~


Good point. I'll make some snuggle room for you with me here in the middle ;)

[BigDF]

That's not true. Some of us hate them both. :lol:

~BB~Hate seems a bit strong to me. Intense dislike is what comes to mind. And as things seem to be going now, I suspect that once again, 2012 is going to be one of those elections where neither choice will be good for the country.:geek:

[BellaBellucci]

Hate seems a bit strong to me. Intense dislike is what comes to mind. And as things seem to be going now, I suspect that once again, 2012 is going to be one of those elections where neither choice will be good for the country.:geek:

I agree. None of the candidates have the power to stop the Armageddon, so what's the point? :?

~BB~

[Dino Velvet]

I agree. None of the candidates have the power to stop the Armageddon, so what's the point? :?

~BB~

Neither party has enough bullshit to push Leviathan's head back down into the Lake of Poison.

[leckery5]

Here's the rub. Watch politicians trash talk and dismantle SS without offering a viable alternative. One day most of might be saying, "Boy I wish they had tweaked that ponzi scheme and kept it going another 70 years."