RIP to the 31 Soldiers who died in a helicopter crash!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Hmmm convenient?

Those poor men..

If you are a veteran or troop - I want to express my gratitude and want to say how proud I am of you. It really makes me sad......

[Jackal]

It is a crime they did not receive the publicized reward for Osama.

[MrsKellyPierce]

It is a crime they did not receive the publicized reward for Osama.
That was for their safety...

[Mayrah]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/06/afghan-president-31-americans-killed-in-helicopter-crash/

[Falrune]

May they rest in Peace. Somewhat fortunately, according to the AP release


None of those killed in the crash is believed to have been part of the SEALs mission that killed bin Laden, but they were from the same unit as the bin Laden team.

[pontgmc]

It is a crime they did not receive the publicized reward for Osama.

Those guys don't do it for publicized rewards...

[bulldog]

Richard Marcenko is probably already planning a retaliation and we will kill tenfold the amount of insurgents just for this single incident, specially since the CIA will probably be very involved now.

[bulldog]

On a side note, either get rid of those POS CH47's or at least let a gunship run with them for cover! Not like you have to worry about radar intercepts from the damn taliban......

[Dino Velvet]

Rest In Peace

[Jackal]

Those guys don't do it for publicized rewards...

What's promised ought to be delivered. In any case, it appears none involved were in the crash, it is awful to think of so many lives cut short.

[Erika1487]

May you Rest In Peace our fallen Heroes.

[BellaBellucci]

RIP. These guys were warriors and heroes. I'm sure a helicopter crash was not their preferred way to go. :(

I have so much respect for special forces. Without them, pretty much every skirmish has a much greater potential to become a full-scale war. Their job is so completely underrated and their stories untold.

I love watching them train on those shows on the Military Channel. Hot guys working hard with big guns and explosives. What's not to like?!

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Rip....

[Nicole Dupre]

Why isn't RIP in all caps, the way I typed it?

[BellaBellucci]

Why isn't RIP in all caps, the way I typed it?

... because it wasn't long enough. If you type something that is (I believe) 3 characters or under, and they're all caps, it automatically case-changes.

~BB~

[onmyknees]

Heart felt post Kelly...Thank you for that.

It's long past time to bring these guys home. I've been to 6 funerals in the last year alone ( the last one a Marine brother took his own life right before his 5th deployment to that shit hole)

Enough is enough. I realize better than anyone they do it because it's their job and they're loyal to each other, but it doesn't remotely seem worth the heavy price any longer.

[Nicole Dupre]

Enough is enough. I realize better than anyone they do it because it's their job and they're loyal to each other, but it doesn't remotely seem worth the heavy price any longer.
We're doing Afghanistan for the heroin and lithium. We have no interest in teaching those misogynistic camel-humpers how to have a "democracy". lol We'll be squatting there forever.

[alpha2117]

If anyone ever wants to undesrstand these sort of guys read Black Hawk Down, it's full of their thoughts and feelings about the whole Somalia debacle and you actually start to understand heir mindset after a while. There is one guy who they are all in awe of - in the film he is played by eric Bana but they actually tone down what he does in the film because it's almost unbelievable that a person can do the things he does. In the film after they get back to the stadium at the end you see him getting ammo and planning to go out to see what happened to the chopper crew that they didn't get too, in real life he has a shower changes into chino's and a ploo shirt and goes out into the heart of an angry city out for blood without any wepaons pretending to be a reporter and trying to find those guys. These people have a totally different mindset to most and I dont think people give them the real respect they deserve. Sure everyone says they support the troops but few ever try to understand them or what they go through.

[LuCiFeRsHaL0]

I'm enlisting active duty later this year. It is horrible to lose brothers like that. I've already lost one friend to Iraq. But I love my country and I'm willing to fight for everyone's freedom and safety. RIP

[Pelheckitt]

Rest In Peace, our country can never repay the debt to them that is owed.

All gave some, Some gave all!

[Nicole Dupre]

http://gizmodo.com/5562473/massive-afghanistan-lithium-deposit-as-in-batteries-could-alter-nations-economy

[Ben]

Faces of the Fallen.
Over 6,000 brave men and women have lost their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/afghanistan/

[Prospero]

I endorse all the positive sentiments expressed in this thread. Respect for those brave men and women from the US, UK, Afghanistan and other nations working, fighting and dying in foreign fields.

[Ben]

We're doing Afghanistan for the heroin and lithium. We have no interest in teaching those misogynistic camel-humpers how to have a "democracy". lol We'll be squatting there forever.

The American author Gore Vidal said the U.S. is run by the National Security Council. Which is the CIA and the Pentagon.
Under the Taliban the heroin trade was driven to a halt. They, them camel humpers -- ha ha! -- virtually stopped the heroin trade. Now 90 percent of the world's heroin comes out of Afghanistan.
What happened???????
We know, and it has been long established, that the CIA are involved in drug trafficking. Whether it's cocaine (from South America) or heroin.
Ah, the whirling world is sooo dreadfully entertaining -- :(
Here is Republican Ron Paul on the illicit drug trade:
‪Ron Paul on CIA Drug Trafficking‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBh_hzU-jdI)

[Ben]

This, sadly, doesn't get enough attention:

‪US military suicide rate exceeds combat fatalities‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2FQtHQyYUY)

[russtafa]

the troops should come home

[Jericho]

RIP...Nothing else you can say.

[bassman2546]

It's really sad for the slain and their families. Needless deaths as far as I'm concerned. Brainwashed by the previous government to think that they are actually protecting their country.

[Jericho]

Dude, if you want to talk about needless, start another thread.

And while we're talking about the SF's, lets not forget the aviators who lost their lives too.
It's a family tragedy.

[bassman2546]

Dude, if you want to talk about needless, start another thread.

And while we're talking about the SF's, lets not forget the aviators who lost their lives too.
It's a family tragedy.
I think I said it WAS a family tragedy, if you read it again. And if this isn't a thread about reality then I guess I will take it somewhere else where people aren't so oblivious and there's still a AAA rating.

[Nicole Dupre]

The reason we send these young men and women into hell on earth, is because it's cheaper than making the real profiteers pay mercenaries. And of course, that way the taxpayers can foot the bill, and their kids can be the cannon fodder. The ruling elite put a uniform on to have a few pictures taken, and go back to hiding at the country club.

[BellaBellucci]

The reason we send these young men and women into hell on earth, is because it's cheaper than making the real profiteers pay mercenaries. And of course, that way the taxpayers can foot the bill, and their kids can be the cannon fodder. The ruling elite put a uniform on to have a few pictures taken, and go back to hiding at the country club.

Unfortunately though, the military has a constitutional mandate. Whether corporations are pulling the strings or not, there's nothing we can do about having one in the first place.

The government should privatize lots of aspects of itself, particularly education, but on this one, their power is limited. I mean, let's face it, providing for a national defense is the very purpose of our government.

~BB~

[Jackal]

The reason we send these young men and women into hell on earth, is because it's cheaper than making the real profiteers pay mercenaries. And of course, that way the taxpayers can foot the bill, and their kids can be the cannon fodder. The ruling elite put a uniform on to have a few pictures taken, and go back to hiding at the country club.

well, our tax dollars do go to criminal mercenaries like Xe aka Black Water. They make more money than the everyday service member. I say we start treating them like the heroes everyone calls them or stop doing so. Its like teachers, everyone says they are great and an asset but we pay the dirt, treat them like shit and offer no support. I am sick of the hypocrisy. A few of the people I knew in the Navy ended up homeless and alone or died from suicide.

[Nicole Dupre]

Unfortunately though, the military has a constitutional mandate. Whether corporations are pulling the strings or not, there's nothing we can do about having one in the first place.

The government should privatize lots of aspects of itself, particularly education, but on this one, their power is limited. I mean, let's face it, providing for a national defense is the very purpose of our government.

~BB~
What would be "unlimited"? Enslaving us? lol Conscription, which I assume is on the table?

[BellaBellucci]

well, our tax dollars do go to criminal mercenaries like Xe aka Black Water. They make more money than the everyday service member. I say we start treating them like the heroes everyone calls them or stop doing so. Its like teachers, everyone says they are great and an asset but we pay the dirt, treat them like shit and offer no support. I am sick of the hypocrisy. A few of the people I knew in the Navy ended up homeless and alone or died from suicide.

... and most of them were previously everyday service members. The US military since the G.I. Bill has almost become more of a training program than a self-directed, functional fighting force.

It used the be that the military would identify a threat and bring it to the President for action. These days, the puppet President picks the battles and throws the stick, and the lapdog Pentagon runs to fetch it.

What would be "unlimited"? Enslaving us? lol Conscription, which I assume is on the table?

Well, no. The size of the military is supposed to be discretionary in relation to circumstance. Conscription is legal because it should be, just in case (i.e. Selective Service), but IMO should only be used in absolute emergencies. The issue comes when men are drafted to fight wars that are against the will of the people, i.e. WWII = good, Vietnam = bad.

So I'm certainly not saying that we should live in a military state, only that we're constitutionally obligated to have a military.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

It used the be that the military would identify a threat and bring it to the President for action. These days, the puppet President picks the battles and throws the stick, and the lapdog Pentagon runs to fetch it.



Certainly, not in our lifetimes, it wasn't. lol

[Jackal]

... and most of them were previously everyday service members. The US military since the G.I. Bill has almost become more of a social program than aself-directed, functional fighting force.

It used the be that the military would identify a threat and bring it to the President for action. These days, the puppet President picks the battles and throws the stick, and the lapdog Pentagon runs to fetch it.


Well, no. The size of the military is supposed to be discretionary in relation to circumstance. Conscription is legal because it should be, just in case (i.e. Selective Service). The issue comes when met are drafted to fight wars that are against the will of the people.

So I'm certainly not saying that we should live in a military state, only the we're constitutionally obligated to have a military.

~BB~
Yes but not always the USA. Ex-soldiers who become thugs, including military members from totalitarian regimes, and anyone who goes on to commit the kind of crimes Black Water has (mass killings, rape, child prostitution, etc.) deserves life in prison. I don't care if you used to be the most commended member of the military; that's just pure evil.

[BellaBellucci]

Certainly, not in our lifetimes, it wasn't. lol

Fuck no! Democracy has been a joke since Kennedy was assassinated.


Yes but not always the USA. Ex-soldiers who become thugs, including military members from totalitarian regimes, and anyone who goes on to commit the kind of crimes Black Water has (mass killings, rape, child prostitution, etc.) deserves life in prison. I don't care if you used to be the most commended member of the military; that's just pure evil.

I'm not defending Blackwater. I'm just saying that private defense contractors (et al) offer plenty of U.S. soldiers high-paying gigs. It's like the military is college and a position with a defense contractor becomes your career. You're right overall, but the answer isn't to dismantle private defense contractors, but regulate them. War has rules. So should war contracting.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

... and anyone who goes on to commit the kind of crimes Black Water has (mass killings, rape, child prostitution, etc.) deserves life in prison. I don't care if you used to be the most commended member of the military; that's just pure evil.We both know that will never happen. We can't even get an independent investigation of 9/11.

The fundamentalists believe "hell" is somewhere else. But it's right here on earth, in places like Afghanistan, etc. And so is heaven, if you can afford it.

lol

‪Bad Religion - How Could Hell Be Any Worse? - 05 - Fuck Armageddon... This is Hell!‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ONlH9ieqgc)

[Silcc69]

RIP to those soldiers. I jsut wish we'd get the hell up outta there.

[Nicole Dupre]

RIP to those soldiers. I jsut wish we'd get the hell up outta there.
co-sign

[PALGary]

why hasn't admin moved this to the political section?

[Nicole Dupre]

why hasn't admin moved this to the political section?
This is so mild, compared to the other discussions taking place, which remain in this section. You have to be kidding. lol

[BellaBellucci]

co-sign

Yeah, but do you really think that's possible after the lithium find? :(

~BB~

[Ben]

Unfortunately though, the military has a constitutional mandate. Whether corporations are pulling the strings or not, there's nothing we can do about having one in the first place.

The government should privatize lots of aspects of itself, particularly education, but on this one, their power is limited. I mean, let's face it, providing for a national defense is the very purpose of our government.

~BB~

Ron Paul's position on foreign policy is quite good. Bring all our troops home. Close all our military bases around the world. (I mean, bring the troops home to PROTECT America. Yep! Have our troops home to protect us. I mean, why the hell do we have troops -- and bases -- in Germany, England and Japan???) The savings would be tremendous. And then we can start chipping away at the deficit. And, also, build Detroit. Instead of Kabul -- ha ha ha!
And true fiscal conservatives would want to scale back the bloated military budget.
‪Ron Paul — Perpetual War... NO, THANK YOU!!!‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLJOfrOsjok)

[Nicole Dupre]

Yeah, but do you really think that's possible after the lithium find? :(

~BB~
After the lithium find? Let these cheap industrial mobster motherfuckers hash it out with Black Water doing their dirty work. Our military isn't getting a cut of the damn lithium. lol They don't even get decent medical care.

[Nicole Dupre]

Black Water can be the "new Templars"; raping and pillaging for the Pope of America. lol

[Nicole Dupre]

Ron Paul's position on foreign policy is quite good. Bring all our troops home. Close all our military bases around the world. (I mean, bring the troops home to PROTECT America. Yep! Have our troops home to protect us. I mean, why the hell do we have troops -- and bases -- in Germany, England and Japan???) The savings would be tremendous. And then we can start chipping away at the deficit. And, also, build Detroit. Instead of Kabul -- ha ha ha!
And true fiscal conservatives would want to scale back the bloated military budget.
‪Ron Paul — Perpetual War... NO, THANK YOU!!!‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLJOfrOsjok)
That's fine. Trust me, those corporations can afford to protect their lithium mining with Black Water. Just remember where to make the fucking batteries; in your backyard. Not in India.

[Nicole Dupre]

I really don't care if we confiscate what's below the ground, or growing out of it, in a place where they basically shit on their own women and children. Afghanistan is NOT like America before it was colonized. They're already all fucked up on baby-fucking Allah-worship. Just hire your own private goon squad to do it.

[Nicole Dupre]

Peace out on this one. This shit's not getting fixed on HA. lol

[onmyknees]

We're doing Afghanistan for the heroin and lithium. We have no interest in teaching those misogynistic camel-humpers how to have a "democracy". lol We'll be squatting there forever.


Baby...I hope the fuck you're wrong. What a shit hole. Two days after the last GI comes home, it will be the same mess it's been for 200 years. I say fuck 'em and feed 'em beans. Get our guys the fuck outta there.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

This thread, like many before it, has lost its way. It is fitting to mourn the deaths of valiant warriors, just as much as the untimely demise of unsuspecting civilians. As a retired SpecWar operator, I would personally appreciate it if you could offers your sympathies and prayers(if so inclined) to the families suffering the loss of their loved ones. I appreciate all of you, please appreciate them.

[tsnajwa]

Baby...I hope the fuck you're wrong. What a shit hole. Two days after the last GI comes home, it will be the same mess it's been for 200 years. I say fuck 'em and feed 'em beans. Get our guys the fuck outta there.

do you realize how uneducated this makes you sound as a human being?

[russtafa]

yes but the truth .they have not changed in a thousand years

[lovesall]

When the Seal team killed Osama bin Ladin we all cheered and chanted USA, USA! Now I went back to ground zero and had a moment of slience for the brave men who gave their lives for this country and never ask for anything in return. Bless them and all the other soldiers around the world.

[CaliBoy951]

Ok, I was in the first Desert Storm, so I know a thing or two about this.

Where were the gun ships, i.e. the air support that escorts the shit hooks, ooops I meant the Chinooks? This bird should have been flanked by ample firepower...something doesn't add up?

[iamdrgonzo]

‪(18)THE WALL: Pink Floyd - Bring The Boys Back Home‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgkk9P3vNtg)



There is no glory in war, only sorrow, pain and suffering anyone tells you otherwise is a God damned liar.

The men aboard the whirlybird that went down knew the risks better than anyone else it is their families which rightfully deserve your sympathies as do the innocents murdered in the US's undeclared wars which are/were based solely upon lies.

The US armed forces, NATO, the Taliban, the innocents, et al, are being used as cannon-fodder in order to pad the fiscal bottom-lines of the merchants of death all under the guise of bring democracy and safety to the great unwashed.

Truth is the first casualty of war, it always is. (I wonder if any of the intrepid stenographers (journalists) who transcribed the US Department of Wars talking-points verbatim have actually visited the site where the whirlybird went down in order to vet the official story line? Or for that matter any of areas in Pakistan's FATA that have been hit by drone strikes)

Bring the boys back home!

[russtafa]

Our troops should come home and then spray that fucking place with agent orange and leave the shit hole

[iamdrgonzo]

Our troops should come home and then spray that fucking place with agent orange and leave the shit hole

russtafa how does the above statement reconcile itself with live with honour?

[loren]

russtafa how does the above statement reconcile itself with live with honour?Also, using agent orange wouldn't work because that place is mostly rocks and mountains.

[loren]

Unfortunately though, the military has a constitutional mandate. Whether corporations are pulling the strings or not, there's nothing we can do about having one in the first place.

The government should privatize lots of aspects of itself, particularly education, but on this one, their power is limited. I mean, let's face it, providing for a national defense is the very purpose of our government.

~BB~

We (the US) didn't have a standing army until the build up for World War II. Before that the president requested the state governors to raise troops for the military action that they needed to take care of.

[BellaBellucci]

We (the US) didn't have a standing army until the build up for World War II. Before that the president requested the state governors to raise troops for the military action that they needed to take care of.

I know, right? And how much harder would it be to have our current bankster wars if that were still the case? I love my country; it's my government I fear... but a national defense is still a necessary evil until somebody comes up with something better.

The worst part of all of this is that so many of our heroes are duped into service. As was said, all gave some; some gave all. And for what?! :(

~BB~

[Ben]

Ok, I was in the first Desert Storm, so I know a thing or two about this.

Where were the gun ships, i.e. the air support that escorts the shit hooks, ooops I meant the Chinooks? This bird should have been flanked by ample firepower...something doesn't add up?

Texas Radio Host Alex Jones believes they were murdered. But he's a conspiracy theorist.
He believes the government is behind every terrorist act from Oklahoma to 9/11. He, also, believes global warming is a conspiracy to bring about a carbon tax. (I think he's way off with respect to global warming. I mean, why devise an elaborate conspiracy for a simple tax?)
I think he's paranoid. Just my humble opinion.

[BellaBellucci]

Texas Radio Host Alex Jones believes they were murdered. But he's a conspiracy theorist.
He believes the government is behind every terrorist act from Oklahoma to 9/11. He, also, believes global warming is a conspiracy to bring about a carbon tax. (I think he's way off with respect to global warming. I mean, why devise an elaborate conspiracy for a simple tax?)
I think he's paranoid. Just my humble opinion.

I don't think Oklahoma was an inside job and the jury's still out on this crash, although on the rest, I actually agree with Alex. There's a reason this world has conspiracy theorists: because it also has conspiracies. Interestingly, 'conspiracy theorist' is the disqualifier du jour given to whistleblowers by those who wish to silence them.

Just sayin'. :geek:

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Texas Radio Host Alex Jones believes they were murdered. But he's a conspiracy theorist.
He believes the government is behind every terrorist act from Oklahoma to 9/11. He, also, believes global warming is a conspiracy to bring about a carbon tax. (I think he's way off with respect to global warming. I mean, why devise an elaborate conspiracy for a simple tax?)
I think he's paranoid. Just my humble opinion.
I'm telling you, Ben. Throwing in a few scraps of the truth is always the best recipe for a durable bullshit story. Alex Jones is full of shit, and has been pegged as a Jesuit disinfo guy more than once.

And his voice makes me cringe every time anyway. *fingernails meet blackboard

[Nicole Dupre]

‪Pat Buchanan-Alex Jones interview‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru2GwfHa4fE)

[Ben]

I'm telling you, Ben. Throwing in a few scraps of the truth is always the best recipe for a durable bullshit story. Alex Jones is full of shit, and has been pegged as a Jesuit disinfo guy more than once.

And his voice makes me cringe every time anyway. *fingernails meet blackboard

He could be, um, just nuts -- ha ha ha!
He seems, well, paranoid. Again, everything, according to Alex, is a conspiracy. I don't buy that.
Alex also believes in the cabal theory. Where there is a group of men... well, it's the Illuminati. A shadowy presence, as it were.
Well, everyone knows that big corporations have a tremendous amount of sway in this society and other societies. Corporations are simply serving their own interests. Which is profits. Nothing less. Nothing more.
I don't believe that there's a bunch of evil men running the world. Alex seems to....

[BellaBellucci]

He could be, um, just nuts -- ha ha ha!
He seems, well, paranoid. Again, everything, according to Alex, is a conspiracy. I don't buy that.
Alex also believes in the cabal theory. Where there is a group of men... well, it's the Illuminati. A shadowy presence, as it were.
Well, everyone knows that big corporations have a tremendous amount of sway in this society and other societies. Corporations are simply serving their own interests. Which is profits. Nothing less. Nothing more.
I don't believe that there's a bunch of evil men running the world. Alex seems to....

I disagree. What Alex alleges amounts to insider trading or governing behind closed doors, which is precisely what every major government, corporation, global body, and central bank does without our consent. Not to mention the Bilderberg Group, which does exist. The idea that these organizations could be lying to us and that nobody seems to want to believe it is precisely what necessitates the work of Alex Jones, whether you think he's a nut or not. People shouldn't hear his word as gospel, but they should use some of the things he's saying to educate themselves to think more critically of their 'trustworthy' governments.

Here in California, governing behind closed doors is even illegal. There should be a similar federal constitutional amendment.

Brown Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Act)

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Pat Buchanan used to write Nixon's speeches. Now he writes them for Ales Jones.

[onmyknees]

do you realize how uneducated this makes you sound as a human being?

I'll honor Corvette wishes here, and pass on responding at the risk of turning a well intentened thread into something other than what it started out. Instead I'll honor Michael Strange...one of the fallen.


Michael Strange, 25, decided to join the military when he was still in high school, and had been in the Navy for about six years, first stationed in Hawaii and for the last two in Virginia Beach, where he became a SEAL about two years ago, his mother, Elizabeth Strange, told The Associated Press (http://www.ap.org/).
"He wasn't supposed to die this young. He was supposed to be safe," his mother told The Associated Press. "And he told me that and I believed him. I shouldn't have believed him because I know better. He would say 'Mom, don't be ridiculous and worry so much. I'm safe.'"
The young SEAL was supposed to be home for Thanksgiving.
"It was going to be such a good time," his mother said.

[Ben]

I disagree. What Alex alleges amounts to insider trading or governing behind closed doors, which is precisely what every major government, corporation, global body, and central bank does without our consent. The idea that these organizations could be lying to us and that nobody seems to want to believe it is precisely what necessitates the work of Alex Jones, whether you think he's a nut or not. People shouldn't hear his word as gospel, but they should use some of the things he's saying to educate themselves to think more critically of their 'trustworthy' governments.

Here in California, governing behind closed doors is even illegal. There should be a similar federal constitutional amendment.

Brown Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Act)

~BB~

Mussolini coined the term fascism. Which is the merger or nexus of state power and corporate power. Ron Paul described America as being a "soft fascist" state. Well, it is corporatism [and not a free market system] that we have. There is a very cozy and extremely tight relationship between the government and big corporations.
Now in a so-called free market system, well, government would not come to the aid of the banking system. Bailing out banks isn't capitalism. Now Ron Paul and Alex Jones do believe in a free market system. Meaning government doesn't come to the RESCUE of failing businesses.
And yes, it's true, Alex Jones does expose that. Does talk about that. However, I don't think the government is behind every single terrorist attack. I simply don't believe that. Never have.

[BellaBellucci]

Mussolini coined the term fascism. Which is the merger or nexus of state power and corporate power. Ron Paul described America as being a "soft fascist" state. Well, it is corporatism [and not a free market system] that we have. There is a very cozy and extremely tight relationship between the government and big corporations.
Now in a so-called free market system, well, government would not come to the aid of the banking system. Bailing out banks isn't capitalism. Now Ron Paul and Alex Jones do believe in a free market system. Meaning government doesn't come to the RESCUE of failing businesses.
And yes, it's true, Alex Jones does expose that. Does talk about that. However, I don't think the government is behind every single terrorist attack. I simply don't believe that. Never have.

Exactamondo!

~BB~

[Hebrew Hammer]

I don't think Oklahoma was an inside job and the jury's still out on this crash, although on the rest, I actually agree with Alex. There's a reason this world has conspiracy theorists: because it also has conspiracies. Interestingly, 'conspiracy theorist' is the disqualifier du jour given to whistleblowers by those who wish to silence them.

Just sayin'. :geek:

~BB~

Alex Jones is a nutcase who is known to take things so far out of context that it borders on outright lying. The problem with most conspiracy theories, especially the sensational ones is that they are almost universally far more complex and illogical than the simplest explanation.

Take the people that believe 9/11 was a false flag operation deliberately set up by our govt. for their own ends. They expect me to believe that OUR govt. the same one who can't manage their way out of a paper bag, or OUR intelligence community the same one who has been criticized over and over again for relying too much on technology and not enough actual man power had the capability to orchestrate one of the most complex terror attacks in human history? These are the same bureaucrats and "experts" who were blindsided by the fall of the Soviet Union or predicted that eastern Europe would become the new hot spot for the next 50 years. Disregarding western Europe's systematic breakdown in controlling the middle east. Or is it easier to believe the same unreliable system of intelligence was once again caught off guard by a man who has succeeded many times before to incite terror against Americans?

[russtafa]

Also, using agent orange wouldn't work because that place is mostly rocks and mountains.
Yeah you are right.How about dropping something in their water so they can't breed

[BellaBellucci]

Alex Jones is a nutcase who is known to take things so far out of context that it borders on outright lying. The problem with most conspiracy theories, especially the sensational ones is that they are almost universally far more complex and illogical than the simplest explanation.

Take the people that believe 9/11 was a false flag operation deliberately set up by our govt. for their own ends. They expect me to believe that OUR govt. the same one who can't manage their way out of a paper bag, or OUR intelligence community the same one who has been criticized over and over again for relying too much on technology and not enough actual man power had the capability to orchestrate one of the most complex terror attacks in human history? These are the same bureaucrats and "experts" who were blindsided by the fall of the Soviet Union or predicted that eastern Europe would become the new hot spot for the next 50 years. Disregarding western Europe's systematic breakdown in controlling the middle east. Or is it easier to believe the same unreliable system of intelligence was once again caught off guard by a man who has succeeded many times before to incite terror against Americans?

Hebrew Hammer, you say? :geek:

Typical Zionistic deflection aside (whether intended or not), Occam's Razor doesn't apply to 9/11 because for the most part the complexity of the attacks necessitated access provided from the inside. The simplest explanation is that it was somehow given to them freely. The odds of pulling off an attack like that on 9/11 without help makes it nearly impossible. So OK, maybe the inside men were terrorists as well, who knows? But then you'd have to allege that the government is even more incompetent than it historically has been by hiring them in the first place. I can't believe that anybody, not even a member of the Bush family, is that stupid.

Not to mention, how did anyone with the level of flight skill that was supposedly attained by the hijackers fly a plane 20 feet off the ground for over a mile to hit the Pentagon? Not to mention the politically convenient response by the White House.

Conspiracy theory or not, much like the Kennedy Assassination, I don't think anybody thinks they have all the answers, but I think most people agree at this point there's much more to the events of 9/11 than we're being told.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Oh, please. Are you telling me they couldn't auto-pilot whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted, and set up three buildings to freefall, if they actually owned them and/or were in charge of security? And they couldn't create a boogie man to blame it on? It all sounds sooooo complicated. lol

I have no idea what happened, but I did experience the whole mess from 20 miles away. Anyway, the reason so many con theories thrive is because they're very plausible. lol

[Hebrew Hammer]

Hebrew Hammer, you say? :geek:

Typical Zionistic deflection aside (whether intended or not), Occam's Razor doesn't apply to 9/11 because for the most part the complexity of the attacks necessitated access provided from the inside. The simplest explanation is that it was somehow given to them freely. The odds of pulling off an attack like that on 9/11 without help makes it nearly impossible. So OK, maybe the inside men were terrorists as well, who knows? But then you'd have to allege that the government is even more incompetent than it historically has been by hiring them in the first place. I can't believe that anybody, not even a member of the Bush family, is that stupid.

Not to mention, how did anyone with the level of flight skill that was supposedly attained by the hijackers fly a plane 20 feet off the ground for over a mile to hit the Pentagon? Not to mention the politically convenient response by the White House.

Conspiracy theory or not, much like the Kennedy Assassination, I don't think anybody thinks they have all the answers, but I think most people agree at this point there's much more to the events of 9/11 than we're being told.

~BB~

Even if they did get help from someone within the government terrorism isn't something bred in someone from the beginning. The Ft Hood attack proves that. Many terrorists or would be believers in the idea of terrorism for islamic purposes either A) are very good at hiding it or B) the more common and logical tend to just lose patience with what they've been told and go from moderate to extreme. I've seen that happen many times. ( edit ) I should clarify I mean I've seen many a young and impressionable Iraqi youth get corrupted by the idea of something exciting they've been told by the more extreme imams in Iraq and when combined with the depressing conditions caused by our presence over there for the avg Iraqi picked up an AK and fired at some Americans and ended up paying with his life.

As far as the pentagon goes I've never put enough stock in the conspiracies that it was a missile or anything else nor have I studied the facts of the plane close enough to carry on a debate so I'm not going to try and debate with you on that one. Though, since you sparked my curiosity I'd be interested in seeing the science and physics work that determined the flight path needed to do the damage that was done. I do know that with the recovery of multiple pieces of the plane around the sight and enough DNA confirmation of passengers that I would find it hard to believe it was anything other than a plane which caused the damage.

The only theory which I'll every really believe has any plausibility is the knowing of the intelligence and someone in the chain of command sitting on it purposely to let it happen. On a small level I simply don't believe that anyone in our government would consciously make that decision to actively kill thousands of Americans. Having been in the Marines, previously worked in local govt., currently going after my MPA to move further in my govt career I mostly just don't believe the govt to be adept enough to actively have a hand in it. Knowing and not doing anything though is different and not without precedent to a degree when you look at FDR.

[loren]

The worst part of all of this is that so many of our heroes are duped into service. As was said, all gave some; some gave all. And for what?! :(

~BB~
Ya, this quote from the movie Gladiator, sums up my frustrations with our government
Maximus (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000128/): Five thousand of my men are out there in the freezing mud. Three thousand of them are bloodied and cleaved. Two thousand will never leave this place. I will not believe that they fought and died for nothing.
Marcus Aurelius (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001321/): And what would you believe?
Maximus (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000128/): They fought for you and for Rome.
Marcus Aurelius (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001321/): And what is Rome, Maximus?
Maximus (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000128/): I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.
Marcus Aurelius (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001321/): Yet you have never been there. You have not seen what it has become.

Except, unlike Maximus, I don't have a Rome to look forward to.

[Nicole Dupre]

Knowing and not doing anything though is different and not without precedent to a degree when you look at FDR.

But what if that's just the tip of the iceberg?

[Hebrew Hammer]

But what if that's just the tip of the iceberg?

such as...

[Nicole Dupre]

such as...
... not only allowing it, but participating in it.

[Hebrew Hammer]

... not only allowing it, but participating in it.

As I said below I simply refuse to believe anyone in the government is that intelligent or that any agency is coherent and leak proof enough to pull it off.
It's less of a morality thing and more of a general incompetence over and over again thing.

[Nicole Dupre]

And isn't "not doing anything" a form of passive aggression anyway?

[loren]

Alex Jones is full of shit, and has been pegged as a Jesuit disinfo guy more than once.
:iagree:My dad liked to compare Alex Jones to a yapper dog, who barks at anything that goes by even its own shadow. Whereas, I compare him to the boy who cried wolf.

[Hebrew Hammer]

And isn't "not doing anything" a form of passive aggression anyway?

It would definitely make them complicit, I just believe the super secret squirrel theories that are all over the internet.

[Nicole Dupre]

As I said below I simply refuse to believe anyone in the government is that intelligent or that any agency is coherent and leak proof enough to pull it off.
It's less of a morality thing and more of a general incompetence over and over again thing.
Oh, come on. You don't think people still employ the time-tested strategy of "playing stupid"? I'm talking plausibility now. That's all. Many people refuse to believe that priests molest children because it's difficult to fathom such a thing. But we know they do.

Anyway, I have no idea what to think. It happened close to home. You kinda wanted to "refuse to believe" it as you dealt with it. But as I watched it unfold on the news and online, and smelled dead bodies and god-knows-what-else in the air for the days to follow, red flags were popping up all over the place. Many are still up. I'd say the 9/11 Report is about as air-tight as the Warren Commission report on JFK. LOL That's all. Usually they say "watch where the money goes" in a big 'who dunnit'.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Oh, come on. You don't think people still employ the time-tested strategy of "playing stupid"? I'm talking plausibility now. That's all. Many people refuse to believe that priests molest children because it's difficult to fathom such a thing. But we know they do.

Anyway, I have no idea what to think. It happened close to home. You kinda wanted to "refuse to believe" it as you dealt with it. But as I watched it unfold on the news and online, and smelled dead bodies and god-knows-what-else in the air for the days to follow, red flags were popping up all over the place. Many are still up. I'd say the 9/11 Report is about as air-tight as the Warren Commission report on JFK. LOL That's all. Usually they say "watch where the money goes" in a big 'who dunnit'.

Individually intelligent sure, but the amount of people it would require to pull it off and keep it a secret it's a little hard to fathom that collectively they're that intelligent after witnessing what the "best and brightest" came up with for long term strategies in winning the "war" in Iraq.

[BellaBellucci]

Even if they did get help from someone within the government terrorism isn't something bred in someone from the beginning. The Ft Hood attack proves that. Many terrorists or would be believers in the idea of terrorism for islamic purposes either A) are very good at hiding it or B) the more common and logical tend to just lose patience with what they've been told and go from moderate to extreme. I've seen that happen many times. ( edit ) I should clarify I mean I've seen many a young and impressionable Iraqi youth get corrupted by the idea of something exciting they've been told by the more extreme imams in Iraq and when combined with the depressing conditions caused by our presence over there for the avg Iraqi picked up an AK and fired at some Americans and ended up paying with his life.

As far as the pentagon goes I've never put enough stock in the conspiracies that it was a missile or anything else nor have I studied the facts of the plane close enough to carry on a debate so I'm not going to try and debate with you on that one. Though, since you sparked my curiosity I'd be interested in seeing the science and physics work that determined the flight path needed to do the damage that was done. I do know that with the recovery of multiple pieces of the plane around the sight and enough DNA confirmation of passengers that I would find it hard to believe it was anything other than a plane which caused the damage.

The only theory which I'll every really believe has any plausibility is the knowing of the intelligence and someone in the chain of command sitting on it purposely to let it happen. On a small level I simply don't believe that anyone in our government would consciously make that decision to actively kill thousands of Americans. Having been in the Marines, previously worked in local govt., currently going after my MPA to move further in my govt career I mostly just don't believe the govt to be adept enough to actively have a hand in it. Knowing and not doing anything though is different and not without precedent to a degree when you look at FDR.

I can agree with most of that. But I'll also say that DNA results can be falsified.

~BB~

[Merkurie]

To those faithfully departed.
RIP
S!

[Nicole Dupre]

Individually intelligent sure, but the amount of people it would require to pull it off and keep it a secret it's a little hard to fathom that collectively they're that intelligent after witnessing what the "best and brightest" came up with for long term strategies in winning the "war" in Iraq.
Well, then you're looking at it, already underestimating something. But I understand. I draw my own lines on what I can or can't believe too.

And I'd say that you're assuming they thought it was "winnable" in the first place. ;-)

But may the fallen rest in peace.

[Helvis2012]

terrible

[Hebrew Hammer]

Well, then you're looking at it, already underestimating something. But I understand. I draw my own lines on what I can or can't believe too.

And I'd say that you're assuming they thought it was "winnable" in the first place. ;-)

But may the fallen rest in peace.

Depends on your definition of win. If by winnable you mean get the country to a level of self sustainability without letting it go the way of afghanistan circa the soviet pull out, then yea it's winnable. It's gotten to the point that what troops we do have sit on base mostly, 99% of the country is physically in the hands of the IA's (hence the rise in violence in the last year or so after a lull since 2008. Basic infrastructure fuck no, we fucked that all up and those people have no idea how to run a non corrupt civilian govt. They haven't had too, Iraq will look like your run of the mill central American country circa the 80's for a good while. We could have made it alot easier on ourselves if we A) Didn't disband the army, they were conscripts after all who didn't really give a shit who was in charge for the most part. As well as most of them only knew one skill...fighting. When you declare them not eligible to do that anymore its a no brainer they're going to end up in the ensuing insurgency. But, Rumsfeld is a fucking idiot so what are ya gunna do. and B) stopped to secure all the weapons dumps along the way and vast fields of left over munitions in the North of the country. That fueled the homegrown side of the insurgency well into 2007.

Now if your definition of winnable is turning Iraq into a shining beacon of democratic prosperity in the middle east...good luck. Worst country to do so in, 3 different ethnic/religious groups who don't mix together in the first place will never fully get along if they've been pissed at each other off and on for around a 1000 yrs. Revolutions need to be internal and have solidarity. Like many of the countries from this Spring.

[Nicole Dupre]

Depends on your definition of win. If by winnable you mean get the country to a level of self sustainability without letting it go the way of afghanistan circa the soviet pull out, then yea it's winnable. It's gotten to the point that what troops we do have sit on base mostly, 99% of the country is physically in the hands of the IA's (hence the rise in violence in the last year or so after a lull since 2008. Basic infrastructure fuck no, we fucked that all up and those people have no idea how to run a non corrupt civilian govt. They haven't had too, Iraq will look like your run of the mill central American country circa the 80's for a good while. We could have made it alot easier on ourselves if we A) Didn't disband the army, they were conscripts after all who didn't really give a shit who was in charge for the most part. As well as most of them only knew one skill...fighting. When you declare them not eligible to do that anymore its a no brainer they're going to end up in the ensuing insurgency. But, Rumsfeld is a fucking idiot so what are ya gunna do. and B) stopped to secure all the weapons dumps along the way and vast fields of left over munitions in the North of the country. That fueled the homegrown side of the insurgency well into 2007.

Now if your definition of winnable is turning Iraq into a shining beacon of democratic prosperity in the middle east...good luck. Worst country to do so in, 3 different ethnic/religious groups who don't mix together in the first place will never fully get along if they've been pissed at each other off and on for around a 1000 yrs. Revolutions need to be internal and have solidarity. Like many of the countries from this Spring.
That's pretty realistic.

[addicted]

us govt is responsible for this because they have no purpose in afgan. this is bogus bullshit war aimed to make money for private contractors. also bin laden been dead for year how the fuk did these passed away killed him. deomocrats are republicans in drag.

[russtafa]

this is what happens when you let rag heads into your country

[Luvs T Gyrls]

Ok, I was in the first Desert Storm, so I know a thing or two about this.

Where were the gun ships, i.e. the air support that escorts the shit hooks, ooops I meant the Chinooks? This bird should have been flanked by ample firepower...something doesn't add up?

Sure a shit don't miss the rotor wash from those shithooks, was pondering the
lack thereof escort birds on that op not to mention that it's pretty much
the same tactic the Mujahideen Freedom fighters ooops I mean Taliban used against the Russki
Copters during their "conflict" they wee bringing them down with bolt action rifles let alone RPG's thought we might have learned somthing from that one that old oxymoron "military intelligence I suppose.
Mighta been too hot to get the escort birds up in time and they flew in alone,bad move none the less.

BTW ARMY 71-73

[CORVETTEDUDE]

Texas Radio Host Alex Jones believes they were murdered. But he's a conspiracy theorist.
He believes the government is behind every terrorist act from Oklahoma to 9/11. He, also, believes global warming is a conspiracy to bring about a carbon tax. (I think he's way off with respect to global warming. I mean, why devise an elaborate conspiracy for a simple tax?)
I think he's paranoid. Just my humble opinion.

:iagree:That is a bit 'out there'!

[BBaggins06]

I think I said it WAS a family tragedy, if you read it again. And if this isn't a thread about reality then I guess I will take it somewhere else where people aren't so oblivious and there's still a AAA rating.

Well, oblivious is actually not knowing that there are two other credit rating agencies in existence. Psst, both of them give the US AAA ratings ....

[BBaggins06]

Texas Radio Host Alex Jones believes they were murdered. But he's a conspiracy theorist.
He believes the government is behind every terrorist act from Oklahoma to 9/11. He, also, believes global warming is a conspiracy to bring about a carbon tax. (I think he's way off with respect to global warming. I mean, why devise an elaborate conspiracy for a simple tax?)
I think he's paranoid. Just my humble opinion.

You know, conspiracy theories used to have a much longer gestation period. It took years for the first Holocaust denial assclowns to peek their heads out of the shadows.

Now it's almost instantaneous.

[tsnajwa]

this is what happens when you let rag heads into your country

well sir, I am a "rag head", whatever other hateful things you want to say about me, I am not Pashtun or even close but I am Arab and I have never done anything to you.. I have a job, I go to school, I have never been in jail I live a decent life.. and all you do is spout hateful things about anybody from the middle east.. this is pure racism and hate from you.. whether you like it or not you sound just as bad as the people you detest so much. I like to see the good in people but I'm just afraid there isn't any in you..

[russtafa]

true i'm pure evil but i don't fly planes into buildings or go into night clubs in Bali strapped with explosives or take explosives into subways in London or what every great things these muslims have planed for us

[Helvis2012]

this is what happens when you let rag heads into your country


Another great political mind on display. The crash occurred in Afghanistan. Last time I checked, Afghanistan wasn't part of the United States or are you implying the crash was due to cell embedded in the US?
In any event, you made your point: you're a moron. Well done.

[foreigner]

It was all staged by Obama! Seals don't fly Chinooks and they don't do daylight missions

[russtafa]

Another great political mind on display. The crash occurred in Afghanistan. Last time I checked, Afghanistan wasn't part of the United States or are you implying the crash was due to cell embedded in the US?
In any event, you made your point: you're a moron. Well done.
we would not be there except for September 11
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU OR YOU DON'T COMPREHEND.YOUR PICTURE PROFILE LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ON CRACK OR ICE PERMANENTLY:loser:

[Helvis2012]

we would not be there except for September 11
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU OR YOU DON'T COMPREHEND.YOUR PICTURE PROFILE LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ON CRACK OR ICE PERMANENTLY:loser:


You're either too stupid or immature for this conversation. You know that.

[russtafa]

WOW COMING FROM A CLOWN.immature lol

[Helvis2012]

WOW COMING FROM A CLOWN.immature lol


You've got nothing....naturally. Don't say racist things if you can't handle being called on it.

Racist and a pussy. Shameless. :) Time to take that next bus out of Mayberry...it's a big, exciting world out there...you shouldn't be so frightened.

[russtafa]

im pure evil

[russtafa]

"racist" that's a terrible thing to say i'm shattered

[Helvis2012]

"racist" that's a terrible thing to say i'm shattered




Pure Evil......I don't think so. You're just a stupid ass. :loser:

[tsnajwa]

true i'm pure evil but i don't fly planes into buildings or go into night clubs in Bali strapped with explosives or take explosives into subways in London or what every great things these muslims have planed for us

Right, it all has to do with religion because Christian crusaders never slaughtered thousands of innocent people who did not convert at sword.. or have you forgotten about timothy mcveigh and his right wing christian view? or most recently anders breivik of oslo norway bombings.. That doesnt make me say oh this men were christian and killed all this innocent people, we should sterilize all Christians.. No, because people are not all the same.

You are letting the actions of a few people define a community of 2 billion muslims.. not to mention you are Australian.. 9/11 didn't even happen in your country, you just have some personal prejudice against muslims for what reasons I do not know.. I have explained and showed you how as an Australian you have so much more to worry about abbos commiting violent crimes and murders than any "terrorist"..

Thats like me living my life in fear because of inflation in zimbabwe.. something that totally doesnt affect me at all..

[addicted]

its amazing to read stuff from the avg american, it just shows how brainwashed they are and gullable.

[BigDF]

What would be "unlimited"? Enslaving us? lol Conscription, which I assume is on the table?Actually, I think we'd be better off if they brought back the draft, but it's not going to happen. In what has to be one the few times they've ever shown it, the American leadership has actually learned a lesson from history and has decided against conscripting citizens for this hopeless war. I think if our young people were being drafted and sent over there, more folks would be against this whole thing. But, let's face it, until this incident, most people were more worried about the S&P BS than this war that has been steadily killing people with no end in sight since 2001.

I say RIP for all of our fallen servicepeople, regardless of where or when they were killed.

[BigDF]

Sure a shit don't miss the rotor wash from those shithooks, was pondering the
lack thereof escort birds on that op not to mention that it's pretty much
the same tactic the Mujahideen Freedom fighters ooops I mean Taliban used against the Russki
Copters during their "conflict" they wee bringing them down with bolt action rifles let alone RPG's thought we might have learned somthing from that one that old oxymoron "military intelligence I suppose.
Mighta been too hot to get the escort birds up in time and they flew in alone,bad move none the less.

BTW ARMY 71-73Your post reminds me of the problem I've had with this from the start, mainly sort of wondering what kind of lucky shot with an RPG brings down a monster like the Chinook. And speaking of the Mujahedin/Taliban, do you suppose that they might still have some of the Stingers we ever so thoughtfully gave them back when they promised to shoot them at Soviet aircraft?

It's interesting how things get turned around so much, isn't it?

[russtafa]

Right, it all has to do with religion because Christian crusaders never slaughtered thousands of innocent people who did not convert at sword.. or have you forgotten about timothy mcveigh and his right wing christian view? or most recently anders breivik of oslo norway bombings.. That doesnt make me say oh this men were christian and killed all this innocent people, we should sterilize all Christians.. No, because people are not all the same.

You are letting the actions of a few people define a community of 2 billion muslims.. not to mention you are Australian.. 9/11 didn't even happen in your country, you just have some personal prejudice against muslims for what reasons I do not know.. I have explained and showed you how as an Australian you have so much more to worry about abbos commiting violent crimes and murders than any "terrorist"..

Thats like me living my life in fear because of inflation in zimbabwe.. something that totally doesnt affect me at all..we had Bali and a couple of terrorist plots which were uncovered by our security agency and we live right next to the biggest muslim population in the world

[onmyknees]

Right, it all has to do with religion because Christian crusaders never slaughtered thousands of innocent people who did not convert at sword.. or have you forgotten about timothy mcveigh and his right wing christian view? or most recently anders breivik of oslo norway bombings.. That doesnt make me say oh this men were christian and killed all this innocent people, we should sterilize all Christians.. No, because people are not all the same.

You are letting the actions of a few people define a community of 2 billion muslims.. not to mention you are Australian.. 9/11 didn't even happen in your country, you just have some personal prejudice against muslims for what reasons I do not know.. I have explained and showed you how as an Australian you have so much more to worry about abbos commiting violent crimes and murders than any "terrorist"..

Thats like me living my life in fear because of inflation in zimbabwe.. something that totally doesnt affect me at all..



Earlier in this thread I avoided mixing it up with you, for reasons previously stated, but that moment has passed. I can't speak to what Russtfa does or doesn't feel towards Muslims, but I was surprised that anyone would take issue with the fact Afghanistan was a shit hole and not worth one more young American life. I have 2 brothers and 3 cousins there currently, and they seem fond of the people ( except the ones trying to blow them up), but will openly tell you it's the land Allah forgot. Woman's rights may be centuries away. It's now time for the Afghans and the Afghans alone to self determination. I stand by my contention...10 minutes after the last Marine boards the last chopper, Karzai will wind up like his brother, and chaos will again be the norm. Just like April 1975 when the US pulled the last troops and a hand full of civilians out of the embassy in Saigon. I don't have any animosity towards the Afghan people, but it's their country...their time, and I'm sure that's the majority opinion currently held by Americans, and I don't think any of this is anti Muslim. How could it be construed as such given the blood and treasure we've sacrificed.

[Helvis2012]

Your post reminds me of the problem I've had with this from the start, mainly sort of wondering what kind of lucky shot with an RPG brings down a monster like the Chinook. And speaking of the Mujahedin/Taliban, do you suppose that they might still have some of the Stingers we ever so thoughtfully gave them back when they promised to shoot them at Soviet aircraft?

It's interesting how things get turned around so much, isn't it?


To answer your question, no they don't have Stingers, at least any that are still operational. Stinger missiles were built with a short battery shelf-life-10 years max. That's why it hasn't come up; it's a non-issue.