RIP Amy Winehouse

[tvkim]

Singer Amy Winehouse, who achieved worldwide fame with her album Back to Black, has been found dead at her flat in north London.

The body of the 27-year-old Grammy award-winner was discovered at the property in north London by emergency services at around 3.54pm on Saturday afternoon.

It is understood her death is being treated as "unexplained".

Her death comes just a month after she called off some European tour dates after she was jeered for a shambolic performance during a concert in Serbia.

Winehouse's 2006 breakthrough album Back to Black won five Grammy awards, but her music has since become overshadowed by her chaotic lifestyle and run-ins with the law.

[LeatherTGirlLover]

Wow RIP, she was a talent

[Erika1487]

R.I.P Amy :(

[buckjohnson]

A lot of artists have talent, many have stuggles and have tortured souls, but few artists have the skill level to possess that trouble soul and express it in such a soulful as Amy W. did. She was by far my fav singer of the in 2000' s, and very comparable to any female singer in any decade. Since Frank, she dominated my musical tastes. How I discovered the album Frank was itself a miracle and a freak accident. But once I heard it, I was hooked.

I conclude by saying the world is a little less soulful, a little less thoughtful, a little less honest.

[gaysian71]

OMG, I just read that. That's tragic. RIP Amy.

[Gillian]

Sad but hardly unexpected. Endless drivel on the media here about whether it was the pressure the industry put her under etc. Erm, no. She took hard drugs ...

[Prospero]

Oh shit - this is horrible. She was blisteringly talented. That is such a total horrible piece of news. poor girl.

[Prospero]

One of the truly great voices to have emerged in the past few years. Such a tragic waste and so young. RIP Amy.

[jaybee]

R.I.P. To those killed in Norway.

[Nikka]

R.I.P. Amy :( :(

[EyeCumInPiece]

Very Sad. RIP Amy

[KCBob4TS]

sadly not a surprise. unfortunately it wasnt a matter of if but when with her. i celebrated four years clean and sober on wednesday and im thankful for every day that i stay that way. its a very tough beast to defeat and unfortunately, for many, it ends badly. even though im on top of it now it still has affected my life in so many ways. you can put an addict in the best situations and give them all the support possible but sometimes the disease wins. i had always hoped she would come around in time but she did not. rest in peace.

[timxxx]

RIP Amy
Coke is a bitch :(

[jaybee]

sadly not a surprise. unfortunately it wasnt a matter of if but when with her. i celebrated four years clean and sober on wednesday and im thankful for every day that i stay that way. its a very tough beast to defeat and unfortunately, for many, it ends badly. even though im on top of it now it still has affected my life in so many ways. you can put an addict in the best situations and give them all the support possible but sometimes the disease wins. i had always hoped she would come around in time but she did not. rest in peace.

Congratulations on four years sober. :-)

[bassman2546]

Last I heard they hadn't named the deceased, only speculated, but you know how that story goes...

[giovanni_hotel]

One of the few recent celeb deaths that almost made me cry.

I felt an immense sense of loss when MJ passed, but with Amy, you feel like IMO if you knew her, you could have gotten her some help.

[Ben]

She, sadly, is part of the 27 Club....

27 Club - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Padlock.svg" class="image" title="This page is protected."><img alt="This page is protected." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Padlock.svg/40px-Padlock.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/5/59/Padlock.svg/40px-Padlock.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club)

[BellaBellucci]

Amy Winehouse died tragically under age 30? Oh wow! I totally didn't see that coming. :rolleyes:

This is what happens when you don't respect yourself.

~BB~

[LAKidd]

WOW its Amazing how I get all News on HA
RIP to her and all the people died in Norway

[kyoJecours]

she lived pretty much round the corner from me, was always shitfaced in camden. really sweet girl, but hard drugs fuck people up. tragic, RIP.

[giovanni_hotel]

Why is Keith Richards still alive??

Must be that Klingon blood.

[wyndavid]

I didn't even realise Amy was touring in Norway 

[Jericho]

Why is Keith Richards still alive??

Pact with the devil, init!

[jaybee]

Amy Winehouse died tragically under age 30? Oh wow! I totally didn't see that coming. :rolleyes:

This is what happens when you don't respect yourself.

~BB~

^ Spot on! ^

[uchetal]

RIP Amy...so much talent that we'll never realize your full potential as an artist

[KCBob4TS]

I didn't even realise Amy was touring in Norway 

thats okay. neither did she. :party:

[bulge]

RIP....U will be missed.

[Luvs T Gyrls]

HA Breaking Newz Network,no shit Norway? WTF?? ok then time for the obligatory Detroit
comparisons innit?

[russtafa]

i am not surprised she is dead

[Teydyn]

thats okay. neither did she. :party:
Thats really not funny.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Ok it is :D

[Deimos]

kinda hard to care, but i'm not gona trash talk

[maaarc]

RIP beautiful lady

[russtafa]

wow i suppose everyone is shocked

[KCBob4TS]

Thats really not funny.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Ok it is :D

you never want to make light of something like this but it sort of presented itself. i spent over three years in a fog and this could have been me many times. as with the deaths of other addicts like heath ledger and others you hope this can shock someone into getting help/better.

[russtafa]

wow im so sad about junkies,they stole my bike the thieving cunts and always begging for money

[tsdvdman]

This one is next

[MrsKellyPierce]

Awe poor Amy so talented, so needing something, she tortured herself.

But they are saying it was a seizure.

[Willie Escalade]

This one is next
I hate to think that...but the way she's going you never know...

[shutheight]

Sorry.

People die every day.

Why should anyone give a shit when some privileged diva (or guy) croaks. They had means; they died. Who cares.

I am joe six pack. I have kids. (Fortunately, Amy Winehouse did not.)

However, to continue my rant, my ass gets chapped when some fucking celebrity that has means dies and then some fucking chump starts a college fund for their kids.

For example, I lived in Detroit when a Red Wings player, Vladimir Konstantinov, died in a LIMOUSINE accident. People actually donated money to collage fund for his kids. Oh My Fucking God!

I was at a public pool today. I guarantee that any momma there today would never get no such thing as a college fund for her kids.

Fuck the privileged!

Okay.

I'm gunna get a beer.

:)

[flabbybody]

I saw a little bit of the Belgrade thing on the Youtube vid and it was a sad and painful spectacle. my condolences to her family and friends, and also to her loyal fans who will miss her greatly.

[Schimmel]

For example, I lived in Detroit when a Red Wings player, Vladimir Konstantinov, died in a LIMOUSINE accident. People actually donated money to collage fund for his kids. Oh My Fucking God!
From what I remember Konstantinov was a CUNT on the ice. It seemed Federov was his only one who gave a shit about him.


I saw a little bit of the Belgrade thing on the Youtube vid and it was a sad and painful spectacle.
It was so brutal.

[flabbybody]

Sorry.

People die every day.

Why should anyone give a shit when some privileged diva (or guy) croaks. They had means; they died. Who cares.

I am joe six pack. I have kids. (Fortunately, Amy Winehouse did not.)

However, to continue my rant, my ass gets chapped when some fucking celebrity that has means dies and then some fucking chump starts a college fund for their kids.

For example, I lived in Detroit when a Red Wings player, Vladimir Konstantinov, died in a LIMOUSINE accident. People actually donated money to collage fund for his kids. Oh My Fucking God!

I was at a public pool today. I guarantee that any momma there today would never get no such thing as a college fund for her kids.

Fuck the privileged!

Okay.

I'm gunna get a beer.

:)
Listen, a little kid got lost going home from a Brooklyn day camp last week. He got in a car with the earthly incarnation of Satan. The boy was drugged and killed in a 3 day ordeal of horror. He wasn't rich and his parents were regular folks but the city and nation mourns his lose as if we lost our own kid. So I don't accept what you say about only thinking of rich and famous tragedies.

[KCBob4TS]

Awe poor Amy so talented, so needing something, she tortured herself.

But they are saying it was a seizure.

thats possible. sometimes your body just says fuck it.

[arnie666]

Can't say I give a shit,. another nobody who glamourised the use of 'recreational drugs'.Pity that other idiot docherty can't off himself or fall off a building or some shit. Someone has to clear up the mess because people like that behave like they do.

[drongo]

Crack's got Talent. She died a long time ago....

[MichelleTGirl]

R.I.P

Such a talent! x

[mikelpo]

Rip Amy but sadly no shock or surprise

[bassman2546]

This one is next

I've given up waiting for that to happen.

[dgs925]

Of all the people that died yesterday, this one is the least important. She had a single good album, but that is it.

[Bobzz]

Minor talent, minor loss - IMHO It's not like this wasn't on everyone's radar screen of likely outcomes. There are much more news worthy stories than focusing on some drugged out, self destructive, alcoholic crack head who liked to get attention for just being "edge-y". Can we get back to transsexuals and "if I like them, am I really gay" now?

[killkenny]

Of all the people that died yesterday, this one is the least important. She had a single good album, but that is it.

ha i think everyone thort that exact line bout rehab, so when's pete doherty gonna snuff it? coz hes next

[Stavros]

I don't know much about Amy Winehouse as I avoided reading the press and have no real interest in the music. It is clear that she was talented, and unhappy, and for whatever reason failed to defeat her dependence on drugs. I don't see that as an occasion for people to make such nasty remarks about someone they never met. She is entitled, in death, to a some decency, and a more dignified response from what some recent posters have said -such remarks tell us more about you than Amy Winehouse.

[giovanni_hotel]

FRANK was a great album. Back To Black also.


It's always great to hear non-fans be the first to scream how irrelevant she was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_sWf7g9OE&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji33Br6scC4&feature=player_embedded

'ladyboy' at the 1:00 minute mark in the 2nd vid.

[GroobySteven]

Can't say I give a shit,. another nobody who glamourised the use of 'recreational drugs'.

I guess you are not a fan of music or art then?

[onmyknees]

I'm not gonna come on here and be a hypocrite. There was some stuff she did I liked, but I wasn't a huge fan. I dug her I don't give a shit attitude, and her street walker looks, and I do understand she had talent. Any of us who knows or understands addiction could see this was inevitable. Those that don't will never quite understand. Either way it's ultimately sad whenever a life ends prematurely, be it Ms. Whitehouse or the folks in Norway. It shouldn't be an either or situation....RIP

[Silcc69]

I never really got into her but now that she has died I might have to listen to more of her music. Sad that she had to die at such a young age though.

[Ben]

Sorry.

People die every day.

Why should anyone give a shit when some privileged diva (or guy) croaks. They had means; they died. Who cares.

I am joe six pack. I have kids. (Fortunately, Amy Winehouse did not.)

However, to continue my rant, my ass gets chapped when some fucking celebrity that has means dies and then some fucking chump starts a college fund for their kids.

For example, I lived in Detroit when a Red Wings player, Vladimir Konstantinov, died in a LIMOUSINE accident. People actually donated money to collage fund for his kids. Oh My Fucking God!

I was at a public pool today. I guarantee that any momma there today would never get no such thing as a college fund for her kids.

Fuck the privileged!

Okay.

I'm gunna get a beer.

:)

Well, celebrity is about inflating the importance of people. I agree.
Why is Amy Winehouse more important than you and I?
Well, she isn't.
But she is well known.
And we live in a celebrity-fixated culture.
Do I like it? No, not really.
Silly celebrity serves as a distraction.
It's the old Roman concept of: Bread and Circuses.
Ya know, give the people enough food and plenty of entertainment (trivial sports and movies and music) and they won't give a damn about politics.
So, it's deliberate. To get people away from things that matter, that matter to their lives. And it's also a way to reduce a person's capacity to think.

[BellaBellucci]

Well, celebrity is about inflating the importance of people. I agree.
Why is Amy Winehouse more important than you and I?
Well, she isn't.
But she is well known.
And we live in a celebrity-fixated culture.
Do I like it? No, not really.
Silly celebrity serves as a distraction.
It's the old Roman concept of: Bread and Circuses.
Ya know, give the people enough food and plenty of entertainment (trivial sports and movies and music) and they won't give a damn about politics.
So, it's deliberate. To get people away from things that matter, that matter to their lives. And it's also a way to reduce a person's capacity to think.

Truer words hath never been spoken.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

It's unreal, how an RIP thread devolved into a pissing contest & moralizing.

Some people have a little Westboro Baptist Church in them.

R.I.P., Amy.

[iamdrgonzo]

What a beautiful voice, R I P.

[cantona5]

It really does sum people up the fact that they seem to give more concern over a single "celebrity" than they do over a near 100 "non-celebrity" people. Seriously, give a bit more concern to the people who had no choice over their deaths than over 1 person who did.

[needsum]

It really does sum people up the fact that they seem to give more concern over a single "celebrity" than they do over a near 100 "non-celebrity" people. Seriously, give a bit more concern to the people who had no choice over their deaths than over 1 person who did.

Amen to that.

[Nicole Dupre]

Well, yeah. Those 100 non-celebs are unknown to lots of people. So, many people will react by simply saying, "wow. that's fucked up. how horrible", and then move on with whatever other information life is throwing at them at that moment. And, if they like Amy Winehouse, maybe they'll play some of her music at some point.

I'm not sure who sold you people your concern-o-meters, but maybe you should send them back. Then, you can go back to reading your newspapers, including the sports pages, and try using some rational common sense.

That is, unless you want to use a wav file of the news, about the 100 other dead people, as your new ringtone.

*smh

[Mayrah]

It really does sum people up the fact that they seem to give more concern over a single "celebrity" than they do over a near 100 "non-celebrity" people. Seriously, give a bit more concern to the people who had no choice over their deaths than over 1 person who did.


But but... it's Amy Winehouse!!!!:hide-1:

[giovanni_hotel]

Crazy talk by mean people.

For instance, if someone posted tomorrow that HA posters X, Y and Z whom I've talked to, argued and laughed with and had a meeting of the minds on several issues, died in a horrific car crash, it would bother me more emotionally than reading about the 20 odd random deaths on the obituary page in my local paper.

It's all about making a connection, which is the job description of most musicians and why so many people get a little fucked in the head when one of their favorites dies.

A meaningful death is a hard trick for most people to pull off, and to paraphrase Stalin, a 100,000 anonymous people dying at the same time is horrible, but for most of us because we have LIVES, it's not a tragedy. It's a statistic.

For those disgusted by the outpouring of sympathy and regret over Amy Winehouse's premature demise, ask yourself this; will more than 10 non-related family members even care when YOU die????

[Helvis2012]

Total drag.

[Willie Escalade]

We "knew" Amy; most of us didn't know anyone in Oslo.

It was the same thing with Michael Jackson...and Farrah Fawcett.

[onmyknees]

Well, yeah. Those 100 non-celebs are unknown to lots of people. So, many people will react by simply saying, "wow. that's fucked up. how horrible", and then move on with whatever other information life is throwing at them at that moment. And, if they like Amy Winehouse, maybe they'll play some of her music at some point.

I'm not sure who sold you people your concern-o-meters, but maybe you should send them back. Then, you can go back to reading your newspapers, including the sports pages, and try using some rational common sense.

That is, unless you want to use a wav file of the news, about the 100 other dead people, as your new ringtone.

*smh

ND... I know you didn't mean that to be funny...( but then again maybe you did) either way I laughed my ass off. Maybe you should write material for Comedy Central...you're certainly funnier, and smarter that the usual dribble. You got a knack for satire.
No need for me to reiterate the writers point, but at one time I shared his frustration until I really thought about it. I used to get pissed off by the lack of outpouring for guys fucked up in Iraq and Afghanistan, but how can you expect someone's compassion when most people don't have any connection to the person whatsoever....? Most ordinary folks only have a small circle of family and friends. I found that when I made people aware of the circumstances of someone unknown to them, they had genuine empathy, so maybe there is hope for the human race...but on second though......

[Helvis2012]

[QUOTE=Nicole Dupre;974528]Well, yeah. Those 100 non-celebs are unknown to lots of people. So, many people will react by simply saying, "wow. that's fucked up. how horrible", and then move on with whatever other information life is throwing at them at that moment. And, if they like Amy Winehouse, maybe they'll play some of her music at some point.

I'm not sure who sold you people your concern-o-meters, but maybe you should send them back. Then, you can go back to reading your newspapers, including the sports pages, and try using some rational common sense.

That is, unless you want to use a wav file of the news, about the 100 other dead people, as your new ringtone.


You're misinterpreting "concern" for empathy.

[Nicole Dupre]

You're misinterpreting "concern" for empathy.

"Concern" wasn't my word. I guess I should've quoted him directly.



It really does sum people up the fact that they seem to give more concern over a single "celebrity" than they do over a near 100 "non-celebrity" people. Seriously, give a bit more concern to the people who had no choice over their deaths than over 1 person who did.

Personally, I feel badly, in completely different ways, about both. I just thought the moralizing about Amy's addiction was pretty tacky and unnecessary, right in the middle of an R.I.P. thread.

In fact, for all we know there were self-destructive addicts among the crowd of murdered innocents in Oslo. Pardon me if I don't know all their Norwegian names and life-histories yet. I'm one of those self-absorbed trannys from NY, who actually watched the WTC crumble to dust from their window; the kind of person Jerry Falwell blamed 9/11 on.

Anyway, making it into an Amy vs Oslo Victim pissing contest is almost laughable. But it's actually just lame.

[Nicole Dupre]

And my point about the sports section was, I am completely UNINTERESTED in pro sports. Yet they devote a sizable chunk of the "news" to announcing if the guys in the red uniforms beat the guys in blue ones. Seriously, who gives a crap? It's offensive to call that news.

Put the bills they sign but don't read where the sports section was. I don't care what guys in shiny tight pants, who pat each other's butts, are doing on some field in the winter. More power to you if you do. But I prefer music, films, and art as my distractions from all the serious stuff we're flooded with.

[Deimos]

don't really give a shit about where this thread is going... i just can't stand the loonies claiming this chick had the same impact on music joplin or hendrix did. again not trashing HER, just the idoits making exaggerated claims. if it was madonna or someone of that caliber, i'd be ok with it.

[onmyknees]

And my point about the sports section was, I am completely UNINTERESTED in pro sports. Yet they devote a sizable chunk of the "news" to announcing if the guys in the red uniforms beat the guys in blue ones. Seriously, who gives a crap? It's offensive to call that news.

Put the bills they sign but don't read where the sports section was. I don't care what guys in shiny tight pants, who pat each other's butts, are doing on some field in the winter. More power to you if you do. But I prefer music, films, and art as my distractions from all the serious stuff we're flooded with.


So what came first....the chicken or the egg? The uniformed, ignorant ( and happily so) public....or the 20 page sports section? Are they just feeding us the slop we deserve? A scroll through the channels on network TV tells me they're giving them what they demand...to remain comfortably numb.

[Nicole Dupre]

I don't watch much television, so I wouldn't know where to begin channel surfing. lol

And I just don't care about sports. That's all I'm saying. I don't have a cow over it, just because I don't care. Do some tackling, and ball grabbing, and stick bats in your asses. Knock yourselves out. God bless you. lol :-) But I wasn't expecting them to get rid of sports on the news. lol

The news skims over whatever they think people will want to stay informed on. And they just so happened to tell us about Amy W., Oslo, and sports. See that? And we're all still breathing. Sure, a few of us got on the soapbox, but we're better people for it. lol

And, btw, I certainly don't think name dropping your favorite pot music from the 60's has any more validity in the thread. Don't get all Bill & Ted on us, Deimos. Ok? lol How about just having some respect for ALL the dead people, and exhaling your bong hit? Ok? Thanksluvyaloads. lol

[Schimmel]

Did I ever dig her music? I say no, no, no.

But wow such a spectacular downward spiral, epic really, and in such short time span.

For some reason reminds me of the "Downward Spiral Girl" whose demise was displayed in sequence from young to old, made so popular near the beginning of teh interwebz.

[Deimos]

And, btw, I certainly don't think name dropping your favorite pot music from the 60's has any more validity in the thread. Don't get all Bill & Ted on us, Deimos. Ok? lol How about just having some respect for ALL the dead people, and exhaling your bong hit? Ok? Thanksluvyaloads. lol

given the era it would be LSD. validity? wtf are you on about lol? what validity?

a- not a fan of hippie music
b- fuck bill and ted, i prefer jay and silent bob, snootchie bootchies
c- so i'm supposed to respect dead murderers, rapists, tyrants, dictators, etc? or just the dead mentioned in this thread? if that's the case fuck michael jackson :)

try elaborating next time? lol

[Nicole Dupre]

given the era it would be LSD. validity? wtf are you on about lol? what validity?

a- not a fan of hippie music
b- fuck bill and ted, i prefer jay and silent bob, snootchie bootchies
c- so i'm supposed to respect dead murderers, rapists, tyrants, dictators, etc? or just the dead mentioned in this thread? if that's the case fuck michael jackson :)

try elaborating next time? lol

Yeah. "Validity". You brought up your musical score card, not me. "Validity", as in a "valid point". You didn't really make one. That's all. lol

You made it a pissing contest of musical tastes. Then you started going off on Michael Jackson, and made all the criminal references; you were all over the place with that. lol

Or wait. Was Amy Winehouse a pedophile serial killer, AND not as good as Jimi Hendrix in your opinion? lol

Some of you guys are truly fried. :-P

[Deimos]

sigh... i am indeed fried.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQTOGTV9_BA&feature=featured

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-_do676gNs

I used to hate the Billie Holliday/Etta James comparisons, but IMO Amy really did have that level of talent. Her phrasing is unbelievable.

[oifarang]

Amy had a wonderful voice,she had talent and she had style .

Have some respect people and show some dignity in your posts.

R.I.P Amy.

[dderek123]

Don't smoke crack, kids.

[hunkystudcal]

She brought it on herself. A life on drugs and booze. What do you expect.

Not exactly a good role model for her younger fans.

[Jericho]

Don't smoke crack, kids.

Yep, wait until yer 18 ((same as alcohol) or 21 if'n yer in one of those repressive countries)! :shrug

[Jericho]

We've got a lot of guys on this board sneaking off from their wives in the middle of the night to visit transsexual prostitutes, a lot of drunks, a lot of dope heads, and a majority of fantasists.

Talk about the peanut gallery?

She had a fantastic talent she pissed away, the same as many others. Who *here* could say they'd do it differently?

RIP.

BTW.
Wise words Gio, nice one.

[GroobySteven]

Not exactly a good role model for her younger fans.

Why the fuck was she meant to be a role model???


Go back to listening to your Christian Rock station if you are looking for role models and clean living musicians.

[Nicole Dupre]

She brought it on herself. A life on drugs and booze. What do you expect.

Not exactly a good role model for her younger fans.
Yes. Young girls need more wholesome role models, like Celine Dion & Justin Bieber. lol

[needsum]

Question, not a judgement: why is she considered such a talent? I like all kinds of music, I never rope myself into one category, be it art, music, politics, anything. But I never found her to be all that terriffic. In fact, if she wasn't such a junkie, and was in the headlines for her intixicated stunts, I have a feeling we may never have known about her or her music to the extent we did. JMO.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/138697293/new-republic-victims-of-addiction-not-their-art

This is a great article about artists and addiction, brought on by her passing. Thought it was perfectly done, and it helps remove that "veil" around her that she was some poor, suffering artist who died because of her art. Bullshit. she died because of her addiction. In fact, her addiction became a stumbling block for the progress of her "talent". Either way you feel about her, its sad that she's gone, simply because its sad when a human being cannot grasp the beauty of the gift of life they are given enough to cherish it, and not let it slip away.

[giovanni_hotel]

Question, not a judgement: why is she considered such a talent? I like all kinds of music, I never rope myself into one category, be it art, music, politics, anything. But I never found her to be all that terriffic. In fact, if she wasn't such a junkie, and was in the headlines for her intixicated stunts, I have a feeling we may never have known about her or her music to the extent we did. JMO.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/138697293/new-republic-victims-of-addiction-not-their-art

This is a great article about artists and addiction, brought on by her passing. Thought it was perfectly done, and it helps remove that "veil" around her that she was some poor, suffering artist who died because of her art. Bullshit. she died because of her addiction. In fact, her addiction became a stumbling block for the progress of her "talent". Either way you feel about her, its sad that she's gone, simply because its sad when a human being cannot grasp the beauty of the gift of life they are given enough to cherish it, and not let it slip away.

Where did you get that from???

Amy IMO was a poor, suffering ADDICT whose drug problems became exponentially worse enabled by her wealth and fame.

I'm not telling anyone to like her as an artist or overrate her talent.

Either you think she was good at her craft, or you don't.

Amy hit in the UK when she was 21-22 years old. Everyone wanted to perform with her and have her open their concerts. Her talent IMO wasn't a media creation of the result of an music industry promotional campaign.

She was a young woman who sang with an 'old soul' and never gave herself a chance to fully realize the extent of her talent, that's the remorse general music fans have about her losing/taking her life so early.

[Prospero]

Amy had a great soulful voice. She was, though, a sad human being struggling to cope with some issues which we are not party to. This intensified the feeling in her music. But it also led to her using drugs/alcohol as a way of blanking out or escaping from whatever her inner demons were. The end result - the tragically early loss of an singer who might have gone on to be a great artist. That's loss enough. And beyond that the stupid waste of a young life.

[Nicole Dupre]

What a bunch of tone-deaf, whiny old ladies some of you are. No wonder so many of you are socially and sexually retarded. lol

[oifarang]

What a bunch of tone-deaf, whiny old ladies some of you are. No wonder so many of you are socially and sexually retarded. lol

:) Aint that the truth!

[needsum]

Where did you get that from???

Amy IMO was a poor, suffering ADDICT whose drug problems became exponentially worse enabled by her wealth and fame.

I'm not telling anyone to like her as an artist or overrate her talent.

Either you think she was good at her craft, or you don't.

Amy hit in the UK when she was 21-22 years old. Everyone wanted to perform with her and have her open their concerts. Her talent IMO wasn't a media creation of the result of an music industry promotional campaign.

She was a young woman who sang with an 'old soul' and never gave herself a chance to fully realize the extent of her talent, that's the remorse general music fans have about her losing/taking her life so early.
I took it from the article. And I believe it. she didn't die because she was a poor suffering artist. You basically re-summed up what I was trying to say--she was a poor suffering addict. your reply seems to sum up everything I was equating. I respectfully stated that I didn't like her music and gave a good reason as to why I didn't understand why she was considered such a talent. And in the end I also added my own remorseful feelings as to why I was sad to see her go. it just has nothing to do with her music. There is so much more going on in the world right now than her death, and while tragic, it doesnt mean shit when you look at those poor people in Norway, yet A.W. is getting quite a bit of press. She may very well have had success in the UK, but on my side of the pond, it just isn't that deserved.

[Prospero]

There is so much more going on in the world right now than her death, and while tragic, it doesnt mean shit when you look at those poor people in Norway, .

I see no need to offer a comparison. We can mourn the death of a talented young artist. You didn't like her music. fair enough. And we can deplore the idiocy of a maniac who slaughters young ad innocent people. One doesn't negate the other. News values perhaps need examining. For didn't a lot more people die in the famine in Somalia in the past few days ? Doesn't get the same exposure either. We should be able to look at all of these in perspective and mourn the passing of an artist who gave millions pleasure who might have become even greater (whether we personally enjoyed her musci or not) ... and deplore the madness and politics that led to so many deaths in oslo and be angry and upset about the politics and the politics of denial (climate change deniers - the lunatics of al Shabib etc) who have created in the long and short term the tragedy of Somalia. All have their plcae in our attention surely.

[Nicole Dupre]

I took it from the article. And I believe it. she didn't die because she was a poor suffering artist. You basically re-summed up what I was trying to say--she was a poor suffering addict. your reply seems to sum up everything I was equating. I respectfully stated that I didn't like her music and gave a good reason as to why I didn't understand why she was considered such a talent. And in the end I also added my own remorseful feelings as to why I was sad to see her go. it just has nothing to do with her music. There is so much more going on in the world right now than her death, and while tragic, it doesnt mean shit when you look at those poor people in Norway, yet A.W. is getting quite a bit of press. She may very well have had success in the UK, but on my side of the pond, it just isn't that deserved.
So let me get this straight. First, you're so out of the loop that you think she's a UK phenomenon... even though she's critically acclaimed worldwide, she's all over the American radio, and has also won a Grammy.

And then, after using your flawed info about her geographic popularity, to determine whether or not you can appreciate her; she still "doesn't mean shit" because people were murdered in Oslo? Wtf are you talking about? I think your logic may be in "the pond". lol

[Jimmy W]

She had an incredible voice but was defiant about not giving two shits about herself or the effect her eventual death would have on the people who loved her. She was a walking obituary from day one. Maybe now she can get some rest.

[onmyknees]

[QUOTE=needsum;974889]Question, not a judgement: why is she considered such a talent? I like all kinds of music, I never rope myself into one category, be it art, music, politics, anything. But I never found her to be all that terriffic. In fact, if she wasn't such a junkie, and was in the headlines for her intixicated stunts, I have a feeling we may never have known about her or her music to the extent we did. JMO.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/138697293/new-republic-victims-of-addiction-not-their-art

This is a great article about artists and addiction, brought on by her passing. Thought it was perfectly done, and it helps remove that "veil" around her that she was some poor, suffering artist who died because of her art. Bullshit. she died because of her addiction. In fact, her addiction became a stumbling block for the progress of her "talent".
************************************************** ********************


I don't think anyone suggested she died slumped over a piano for her fans while composing her new album. Again...it's not an either or situation. While the circumstances might be different for an 18 year old kid who steps on an IED in Kabul than what transpired in Amy Whitehouse's life....they're both still dead. Both are tragic and dispiriting albeit in different ways. Both will never reach full potential. While I might relate to one more than the other, I still can have compassion for both....espicially after hearing Ms. Whitehouse's parents speak at the funeral. I'll say again...unless you understand addiction and it's death grip...some may not fully comprehend .

[Ben]

Does grieving for Amy Winehouse distract from bigger tragedies?

The singer's death prompts a familiar Internet backlash. Here's why the critics are wrong

By Mary Elizabeth Williams (http://www.salon.com/author/mary_elizabeth_williams/index.html)


http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/26/grieving_for_amy_winehouse/md_horiz.jpg AP/Salon

Poor Amy Winehouse. Not only did the 27-year-old singer, who had a troubled history of drug and alcohol abuse, have the misfortune to die this weekend in London of yet undisclosed causes, she did so in the midst of an already jampacked cycle of terrible news. And everybody knows that a) people can only feel bad about one thing at a time, and that b) in what the U.K. Guardian helpfully refers to as the "hierarchy of death," (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/jul/25/norway-amywinehouse) it's wrong to care about a single individual when there are higher body counts elsewhere in the world. Let the sanctimony begin!
It seemed within minutes of the news of Winehouse's untimely demise, the Internet was abuzz with outpourings of grief and chastisements of said grief. "Amy Winehouse: Sad but not nearly as sad as 4M starving Somalis (http://twitter.com/#%21/slarkpope) who can still be helped" went a typical, much forwarded tweet that cropped up in my feed, along with phrases like "real problems," "dead junkie," and "What did anybody expect?" God forbid a young woman's death not turn into an opportunity to announce to the world your cleverness in predicting it all, the unworthiness of someone who had the disease of addiction to merit sympathy, or your outrage because apparently you've been too engrossed in Somalia to give a toss.
It's fair to say that the popular media -- and those of us who follow it -- are often guilty of disproportionate attention to sensational stories. And when that happens, there is the risk of giving less care to tougher, more nuanced but important events. Believe me, if Nancy Grace (http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/07/06/nancy_grace_caylee_anthony_verdict) and Dr. Drew never say another goddamn word about anything or anyone, that will be just great in my book. It's a fine line between newsworthiness and exploitation. And Winehouse's long-standing battles with her demons were a matter of public record; her debacle last month in Belgrade, when she was booed offstage, certainly appears to have been an ominous sign of what was to come.

But it is outrageously insulting to presume that anyone's response to a news story -- whether it's a celebrity death or a royal wedding -- is somehow trivial because it doesn't fall on the same place on your own personal worthiness scale. I see it all the time in Salon's comments -- how dare we run a story on a TV show when soldiers are dying in the Gulf? How could anyone care about an ad campaign when there's been a massacre in Norway? I'm sorry, I guess some of us didn't get the chart on how much attention and care and sorrow and concern we're supposed to devote to each world event, or what a huge personal violation it is if a news story you don't care about appears on the same page as one you do.
Different stories affect us all differently. And none of that, by the way, has squat to do with anyone's ability to feel or care or give assistance in any particular realm. Plenty of people who couldn't get their checkbooks out fast enough after the earthquakes in Haiti and Japan were still devastated over the death of Amy Winehouse. Why? Maybe because she was a luminous talent, and the loss of an artist always leaves a particular kind of hole in the world. Maybe because many of us who've had a heart broken in the last five years have had her whiskey voice as a late-night companion, and so she will forever be tied to the story of our own lives and loves. Or maybe because many of us, like recovering addict Russell Brand (http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/), know what it is to battle addiction or care for someone who does, and we can see so much familiar, painful history in Winehouse's sad tale.
Popular culture is culture. It matters because it's part of the soundtrack of our lives, the "where were you" memories that make our personal histories. It's the stuff that we laugh to and dance to together, and cry to alone in our bedrooms. So when it is shaken up, it matters. If you're too above it all to care, fine. But it doesn't make you nobler than anyone else. And I strongly suspect it doesn't mean you've been busy figuring out how to solve famine and political extremism while others were leaving flowers outside Amy Winehouse's home.
If all you've been doing is reading a different column of the newspaper, spare us the lectures about who's "wasting time" when that time isn't yours. There is no "hierarchy of death." And as I wrote when the news of Winehouse's death first broke, if you believe being sad over the untimely loss of a singer means a person can't care about Japan or Norway or Somalia, the imagination and compassion deficit are yours.

[Nicole Dupre]

Why does she even have to wear a scarlet letter for being an 'addict'? I don't think they've even finished her autopsy yet, and people are practically having a NA meeting, mid-thread. lol

But, whatever the autopsy results reveal, it seems like a few folks here are quick to take cheap shots. Which is fine. It's just pretty amusing to see how transparent they get; that they have to play the Oslo card to supposedly make a valid point. lol

[BellaBellucci]

Does grieving for Amy Winehouse distract from bigger tragedies?

The singer's death prompts a familiar Internet backlash. Here's why the critics are wrong

By Mary Elizabeth Williams (http://www.salon.com/author/mary_elizabeth_williams/index.html)


http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/26/grieving_for_amy_winehouse/md_horiz.jpg AP/Salon

Poor Amy Winehouse. Not only did the 27-year-old singer, who had a troubled history of drug and alcohol abuse, have the misfortune to die this weekend in London of yet undisclosed causes, she did so in the midst of an already jampacked cycle of terrible news. And everybody knows that a) people can only feel bad about one thing at a time, and that b) in what the U.K. Guardian helpfully refers to as the "hierarchy of death," (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/jul/25/norway-amywinehouse) it's wrong to care about a single individual when there are higher body counts elsewhere in the world. Let the sanctimony begin!
It seemed within minutes of the news of Winehouse's untimely demise, the Internet was abuzz with outpourings of grief and chastisements of said grief. "Amy Winehouse: Sad but not nearly as sad as 4M starving Somalis (http://twitter.com/#%21/slarkpope) who can still be helped" went a typical, much forwarded tweet that cropped up in my feed, along with phrases like "real problems," "dead junkie," and "What did anybody expect?" God forbid a young woman's death not turn into an opportunity to announce to the world your cleverness in predicting it all, the unworthiness of someone who had the disease of addiction to merit sympathy, or your outrage because apparently you've been too engrossed in Somalia to give a toss.
It's fair to say that the popular media -- and those of us who follow it -- are often guilty of disproportionate attention to sensational stories. And when that happens, there is the risk of giving less care to tougher, more nuanced but important events. Believe me, if Nancy Grace (http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/07/06/nancy_grace_caylee_anthony_verdict) and Dr. Drew never say another goddamn word about anything or anyone, that will be just great in my book. It's a fine line between newsworthiness and exploitation. And Winehouse's long-standing battles with her demons were a matter of public record; her debacle last month in Belgrade, when she was booed offstage, certainly appears to have been an ominous sign of what was to come.

But it is outrageously insulting to presume that anyone's response to a news story -- whether it's a celebrity death or a royal wedding -- is somehow trivial because it doesn't fall on the same place on your own personal worthiness scale. I see it all the time in Salon's comments -- how dare we run a story on a TV show when soldiers are dying in the Gulf? How could anyone care about an ad campaign when there's been a massacre in Norway? I'm sorry, I guess some of us didn't get the chart on how much attention and care and sorrow and concern we're supposed to devote to each world event, or what a huge personal violation it is if a news story you don't care about appears on the same page as one you do.
Different stories affect us all differently. And none of that, by the way, has squat to do with anyone's ability to feel or care or give assistance in any particular realm. Plenty of people who couldn't get their checkbooks out fast enough after the earthquakes in Haiti and Japan were still devastated over the death of Amy Winehouse. Why? Maybe because she was a luminous talent, and the loss of an artist always leaves a particular kind of hole in the world. Maybe because many of us who've had a heart broken in the last five years have had her whiskey voice as a late-night companion, and so she will forever be tied to the story of our own lives and loves. Or maybe because many of us, like recovering addict Russell Brand (http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/), know what it is to battle addiction or care for someone who does, and we can see so much familiar, painful history in Winehouse's sad tale.
Popular culture is culture. It matters because it's part of the soundtrack of our lives, the "where were you" memories that make our personal histories. It's the stuff that we laugh to and dance to together, and cry to alone in our bedrooms. So when it is shaken up, it matters. If you're too above it all to care, fine. But it doesn't make you nobler than anyone else. And I strongly suspect it doesn't mean you've been busy figuring out how to solve famine and political extremism while others were leaving flowers outside Amy Winehouse's home.
If all you've been doing is reading a different column of the newspaper, spare us the lectures about who's "wasting time" when that time isn't yours. There is no "hierarchy of death." And as I wrote when the news of Winehouse's death first broke, if you believe being sad over the untimely loss of a singer means a person can't care about Japan or Norway or Somalia, the imagination and compassion deficit are yours.

I can debunk this entire article in one sentence: "they tried to make me go to rehab, and I said 'no, no, no.'"

It's one thing to have a disease, but quite another to deny it for life, refuse to get help, even brag about it, and then expect sympathy when you succumb to it. Why should anyone care? Sure, she eventually went to rehab, but I tuned out Miss Winehouse the moment I heard that song and her attitude that she was defiant towards treatment. On many occasions she chose to ignore her issues and continue her self-destruction. I don't pity her.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

... if you believe being sad over the untimely loss of a singer means a person can't care about Japan or Norway or Somalia, the imagination and compassion deficit are yours.

Thank you.

[Ben]

I can debunk this entire article in one sentence: "they tried to make me go to rehab, and I said 'no, no, no.'"

It's one thing to have a disease, but quite another to deny it for life, refuse to get help, even brag about it, and then expect sympathy when you succumb to it. Why should anyone care? Sure, she eventually went to rehab, but I tuned out Miss Winehouse the moment I heard that song and her attitude that she was defiant towards treatment. On many occasions she chose to ignore her issues and continue her self-destruction. I don't pity her.

~BB~

Very well said Bella: "... one thing to have a disease, but quite another to deny it for life, refuse to get help."
And, too, it should be treated as a health issue. But it is up to people to seek help, seek treatment. Some do. Some don't. I mean, Lindsay Lohan appears to be on that path of self destruction. She isn't, um, willingly seeking treatment.
In Jim Morrison's biography, No one here gets out alive, he explains that drinking is the difference between slow capitulation and suicide.
Ya know, giving up. So, drug addiction is also, it seems, a serious mental health issue.
And these are health issues. Not legal issues. Unless, say, you commit a crime when on a drug.... Drug use or abuse is no excuse if one commits an actual crime.

[giovanni_hotel]

Amy Winehouse 'expected' sympathy once she succumbed to her disease???

Do you see dead people, Bella??

Winehouse was getting help off and on throughout her life, she didn't try once to kick her habit then say fuck it.

Bunch of judgmental pricks for a TS forum.

This is a RIP thread, not a roll call to scorn and criticize the untimely death of a drug-addicted musician.


You can't MAKE someone go to rehab, which was the point of the song anyway.
They have to want to go of their own FREE WILL.

[BellaBellucci]

Amy Winehouse 'expected' sympathy once she succumbed to her disease???

Many people, while alive, assume they will receive posthumous sympathy or even glory if they are attempting to commit suicide, either slowly through drugs or through another, faster, more acute method. Already people are talking about her being a member of the '27 Club,' so I suppose she got what many people suspected she wanted.


They have to want to go of their own FREE WILL.

Well said. Amy Winehouse chose disease, self destruction, and ultimately death over an earnest attempt to straighten out her life. I respect her free will but I also don't see why I should feel sympathetic to her as if she were a victim. I'm not judging. I'm just saying I'm not saddened by this.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

"Physician, heal thyself."

[Nicole Dupre]

This thread has become like a West Boro Baptist protest. Gross.

[onmyknees]

Many people, while alive, assume they will receive posthumous sympathy or even glory if they are attempting to commit suicide, either slowly through drugs or through another, faster, more acute method. Already people are talking about her being a member of the '27 Club,' so I suppose she got what many people suspected she wanted.



Well said. Amy Winehouse chose disease, self destruction, and ultimately death over an earnest attempt to straighten out her life. I respect her free will but I also don't see why I should feel sympathetic to her as if she were a victim. I'm not judging. I'm just saying I'm not saddened by this.

~BB~



On this particular point....you sound as crazed as one of those Tele-Evangelist Preachers ( Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker come to mind) telling his fainting congregation..."don't pity the person who perished from aids...he chose homosexuality". I'm surprised at your indifference Bella. No one is asking for a nationwide moment of silence, but touch of compassion might be cool.

[BellaBellucci]

On this particular point....you sound as crazed as one of those Tele-Evangelist Preachers ( Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker come to mind) telling his fainting congregation..."don't pity the person who perished from aids...he chose homosexuality". I'm surprised at your indifference Bella. No one is asking for a nationwide moment of silence, but touch of compassion might be cool.

I have no compassion for those who don't respect themselves. I've said this repeatedly so I don't know why you're surprised.

As far as Nicole is concerned, if we weren't talking about a famous singer, particularly one who died, she'd be brutal to the person in question, not indifferent. Just look at the way she treats people around here. Double standard much?

~BB~

[onmyknees]

I have no compassion for those who don't respect themselves. I've said this repeatedly so I don't know why you're surprised.

As far as Nicole is concerned, if we weren't talking about a famous singer, particularly one who died, she'd be brutal to the person in question, not indifferent. Just look at the way she treats people around here. Double standard much?

~BB~

OK...understood. Don't agree, but understood. Please don't make my post the opening salvo in another disagreement with Nicole. I like having you both in here, and I like the detente.:)

[Nicole Dupre]

OK...understood. Don't agree, but understood. Please don't make my post the opening salvo in another disagreement with Nicole. I like having you both in here, and I like the detente.:)
I'm not getting into debates about "how I'd be" in a hypothetical situation, about someone "who's not a famous singer", whoever that potential wildcard is. lol

And my reputation, regarding "how I talk to people" on this forum, is meaningless to me. It never has been. This is basically a graffiti war on the door of a public toilet in cyberspace.

[Ironass]

I loved her voice, her style and her songs, from her early appearances http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CajpSeUvCPY to her later, but still coherent, songs.

I'm just so pissed at her for screwing herself up and taking all that talent away from us. I had the same reaction with John Belushi. I remember hearing about it on the car radio and beating on the steering wheel, yelling "You stupid fuck! Why did you waste your life like that?"

I'll miss her songs and her voice, but I still feel betrayed for caring about her that much.

[Yvonne183]

This is basically a graffiti war on the door of a public toilet in cyberspace.


I love this phrase,, very good.

I liked some of Amy's songs, she had a style of her own. I feel bad that she died, no matter the cause. I do know that being on drugs is tough a battle to get straight.

[onmyknees]

I'm not getting into debates about "how I'd be" in a hypothetical situation, about someone "who's not a famous singer", whoever that potential wildcard is. lol

And my reputation, regarding "how I talk to people" on this forum, is meaningless to me. It never has been. This is basically a graffiti war on the door of a public toilet in cyberspace.

I can't disagree....unfortunately it's a shitfest for the most part.....like kids behaving badly with a substitute teacher who has no control and no hall monitor. But every so often there is a thread, or a person that attracts my attention.

I try no to fuck with anyone unless they cross my threshold....like Phobun ( and a few others) for example. lol

[giovanni_hotel]

Bella's full a shit.

If you have a problem with someone else's drug addiction, you can't have a permissive attitude towards hard drugs in general.

You've got an LSD reference across from your avatar in your 'location', Bella!!lol

Get real.

IMO this hostility towards Amy is about a resentment towards celebs as a group, and some folks feeling they're being forced to feel symathy for someone who imploded.

When you heard that Kurt Kobain blew off his head with a shotgun Bella, were you thinking, 'serves him right, he never should have shot dope in the first place. It was his own stupid fault.'

There are some seriously crazy mufuckin' bitches up in here.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella's full a shit.

If you have a problem with someone else's drug addiction, you can't have a permissive attitude towards hard drugs in general.

You've got an LSD reference across from your avatar in your 'location', Bella!!lol

It's supposed to be ironic. I only smoke weed and drink a little. I've never touched a hard drug in my life. I think everyone here knows that by now.


When you heard that Kurt Kobain blew off his head with a shotgun Bella, were you thinking, 'serves him right, he never should have shot dope in the first place. It was his own stupid fault.'

There are some seriously crazy mufuckin' bitches up in here.

When Kurt Cobain died I considered it a tragedy (because I considered him more important to the music world than Amy Winehouse), and I felt sympathy for his family, but overall, I felt about him the same as I do about Amy.

Some of you who judge the rest of us for lacking sympathy for the self-destructive should take a look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you're so emotionally tied up in a person you don't even know. :geek:

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

The 'problem' I have is why are people posting in a RIP thread about how the person who DIED is undeserving of condolences or sympathy??

I feel bad personally because I like her music.

If Britney Spears overdoses tomorrow, it won't affect me nearly as much because I'm not really a fan of hers.

Human being by nature are 'self-destructive'; physically, psychologically and emotionally.

To be self-destructive is to be HUMAN.

It doesn't mean you spit on their grave.

[BellaBellucci]

Human being by nature are 'self-destructive'; physically, psychologically and emotionally.

To be self-destructive is to be HUMAN.

Do you really believe that bullshit? :?

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

Look in the mirror.

I guarantee there are thought processes or activities someone else would call self-destructive in your own behavior, Bella.

Self-destruction doesn't always mean the ultimate outcome, death, however self- sabotaging behaviors, toxic relationships, thought processes, are all greater and lesser forms of self-destructive behavior.

Questioning one's self worth for instance is a self-destructive act.

Envy, greed, pessimism, etc. are all psychological manifestations of self-destructive thought.

They are inevitable at some point for all of us, and they are implicitly human behaviors.

Unless you consider yourself to be that singular perfect human being, ( that thought alone falls under the definition of a self-destructive act), at some point during a 24 hour period you probably engaging in a form of self-destructive behavior.

The human animal was born defective.

So yes Bella I BELIEVE that bullshit.smh.

[Prospero]

When Kurt Cobain died I considered it a tragedy (because I considered him more important to the music world than Amy Winehouse), and I felt sympathy for his family, but overall, I felt about him the same as I do about Amy. (We can all argue about who is more musically or culturally important. Its an unresolvable argument).

Some of you who judge the rest of us for lacking sympathy for the self-destructive should take a look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you're so emotionally tied up in a person you don't even know. (That's a pretty inhuman attitude. You don't have to be emotionally tied up in a person, as you put it. Why shouldn't we step back here and feel sympathy for a damaged young woman dead way before her time?)

[BellaBellucci]

*yawn*

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

We can all argue about who is more musically or culturally important. Its an unresolvable argument.That's not what any of them are really "concerned" about. It's just basic moralizing and finger-pointing.


That's a pretty inhuman attitude. You don't have to be emotionally tied up in a person, as you put it. Why shouldn't we step back here and feel sympathy for a damaged young woman dead way before her time?You got your answer.

[Pelheckitt]

Who?

[Nicole Dupre]

&#x202a;Crazy Baptist Lady On Tyra Bank&#39;s Show&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Ck4m9EXeo)

[tvkim]

I think her Funeral is today. It's a private family affair.

Her folks must be going thru hell.

My thoughts go out to all concerned.

Some people didnt get Amy, I did.

It's easy to hide behind a computer and slag people off.

[Prospero]

Thanks Nicole - i sure did. The "yawn" speaks volumes.

[BellaBellucci]

I guarantee there are thought processes or activities someone else would call self-destructive in your own behavior, Bella.

Self-destruction doesn't always mean the ultimate outcome, death, however self- sabotaging behaviors, toxic relationships, thought processes, are all greater and lesser forms of self-destructive behavior.

Questioning one's self worth for instance is a self-destructive act.

Envy, greed, pessimism, etc. are all psychological manifestations of self-destructive thought.

They are inevitable at some point for all of us, and they are implicitly human behaviors.

Unless you consider yourself to be that singular perfect human being, ( that thought alone falls under the definition of a self-destructive act), at some point during a 24 hour period you probably engaging in a form of self-destructive behavior.

The human animal was born defective.

So yes Bella I BELIEVE that bullshit.smh.

I think you're confusing self-destructiveness with imperfection. I find it to be quite a stretch to think that questioning ones self-worth makes one self-destructive. If anything, to not do so would be quite arrogant.

~BB~

[dderek123]

When Kurt Cobain died I considered it a tragedy (because I considered him more important to the music world than Amy Winehouse), and I felt sympathy for his family, but overall, I felt about him the same as I do about Amy. (We can all argue about who is more musically or culturally important. Its an unresolvable argument).

Some of you who judge the rest of us for lacking sympathy for the self-destructive should take a look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you're so emotionally tied up in a person you don't even know. (That's a pretty inhuman attitude. You don't have to be emotionally tied up in a person, as you put it. Why shouldn't we step back here and feel sympathy for a damaged young woman dead way before her time?)

Q: What was the last think Kurt Cobain said to Courtney Love?

A: Hole's going to be big.

[giovanni_hotel]

I think you're confusing self-destructiveness with imperfection. I find it to be quite a stretch to think that questioning ones self-worth makes one self-destructive. If anything, to not do so would be quite arrogant.

~BB~


You're being deliberately obtuse Bella to 'win' an argument.

Can't you see how human imperfection and the urge towards self-destruction are permanently linked???

Obviously Amy Winehouse was one of those people who never should have smoked a joint and taken a drink EVER.

Curiosity is alternatively a creative/self-destructive/evolutionary impulse.

It's the reason why our hominid ancestors came down out of the tree canopy and crawled to see what was over on the other side of the hill. It's the reason why sometimes a small child wants to stick her hand in the middle of a burning fire.

I just think it's unfair to moralize and condemn someone for becoming addicted to drugs, unless you believe there should be a prohibition on all psychotropic substances.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Pyschoactive_Drugs.jpg

No one sets out with the goal of becoming an addict, and to suggest somehow it's a moral failing, that someone 'let' it happen to themselves, only works if you believe all recreational drugs should be criminalized.

Aren't you a libertarian, Bella??

If one has the genetic profile to become addicted to specific chemical substances, there's very little control an individual has once those levers are tripped.

That's why drug addiction is called a disease.

SOme people have the ammunition to overcome it. Too many don't.

[needsum]

First of all, my original post started out respectfully, saying that I was not one of the people who didn't get why she was such a talent. I didn't slam her or talk shit--simply stated my opinion, respectfully, that I did not appreciate her as an artist. I never said you shouldn't mourn her because other people in the world are dying. In fact I also said I was sad for her loss as well, if you go back and read. Maybe I was sketchy in the way I posted my opinion, but my end goal was not to get into a debate of her music and wether or not it is good, or if she was a scumbag because she was an addict. My personal view was, and still is, that I just don't get why there is still so much fuss in the media over her death. thats all. I have nothing bad to say to anyone who loved her, is mouning her, or whatever. Again, I think it is terribly sad that she died. I can't imagine having to live with addiction the way she did. For those of you who got your panties in a twist over what I posted, please chill out and don't take it so personally. My major "beef" is with the media, not with Amy herself. I hope she is finally at peace.

[giovanni_hotel]

No beef with the OP.

[Nicole Dupre]

First of all, my original post started out respectfully, saying that I was not one of the people who didn't get why she was such a talent. I didn't slam her or talk shit--simply stated my opinion, respectfully, that I did not appreciate her as an artist. I never said you shouldn't mourn her because other people in the world are dying. In fact I also said I was sad for her loss as well, if you go back and read. Maybe I was sketchy in the way I posted my opinion, but my end goal was not to get into a debate of her music and wether or not it is good, or if she was a scumbag because she was an addict. My personal view was, and still is, that I just don't get why there is still so much fuss in the media over her death. thats all. I have nothing bad to say to anyone who loved her, is mouning her, or whatever. Again, I think it is terribly sad that she died. I can't imagine having to live with addiction the way she did. For those of you who got your panties in a twist over what I posted, please chill out and don't take it so personally. My major "beef" is with the media, not with Amy herself. I hope she is finally at peace.It's not being "taken personally", at least not by me. It's not even being taken seriously. And, to make it into even more of a joke, you're still belaboring whatever this supposed point is that you're making.

Why would you even have a "major beef", with Amy OR the media? I can't believe that THIS is your best example of imbalanced news. You might as well start bitching about Justin Bieber.

What happened? Did you sprain your scrolling finger trying to get past Amy Winehouse articles, looking for a story about Sarah Palin or Casey Anthony? lol I mean, c'mon. lol

Some people used this thread as a vehicle to vent, and now they look pretty insecure and silly. Why lie about it? lol

I'll talk about music all day with you supposed aficionados. I haven't even gone there yet. But I'll just say, Amy actually was really good, and that had nothing to do with drugs or fame.

[bte]

I heard about her death after I woke up and looked at the news on my phone. I promptly went back to sleep. It's sad though, but predictable.

[TSLoverUK999]

Got to see her in 2007 at Aintree Race Course (Home of the Grand National), she had cancelled the gig once already but it was worth the wait. Got to see her on top form, both perfomance & attitude.

She may not have been a pioneer but was well on the way to being a legend after 2 albums. To have the respect of her peers such as Tony Bennet, says bucket loads.

Her voice was unmistakable & packed with emotion, great loss to music, destroyed by her demons far too early in life with far too much still to give.

[needsum]

It's not being "taken personally", at least not by me. It's not even being taken seriously. And, to make it into even more of a joke, you're still belaboring whatever this supposed point is that you're making.

Why would you even have a "major beef", with Amy OR the media? I can't believe that THIS is your best example of imbalanced news. You might as well start bitching about Justin Bieber.

What happened? Did you sprain your scrolling finger trying to get past Amy Winehouse articles, looking for a story about Sarah Palin or Casey Anthony? lol I mean, c'mon. lol

Some people used this thread as a vehicle to vent, and now they look pretty insecure and silly. Why lie about it? lol

I'll talk about music all day with you supposed aficionados. I haven't even gone there yet. But I'll just say, Amy actually was really good, and that had nothing to do with drugs or fame.

Actually, I signed out for a while, if you really need to know. the bold is your opinion, and I won't ever argue that with you. I'm not looking to debate fair and balanced (imbalanced in your words) news, you brought that up not me. I was just asking an honest question followed up with a comment on an article that I thought was very well put. Sorry that I got your shit all out of whack and you feel the need to constantly intensify what was supposed to be a personal opinion. However,I will stop here so I can stop giving others reason to resemble this pic:

[Nicole Dupre]

Actually, I signed out for a while, if you really need to know. the bold is your opinion, and I won't ever argue that with you. I'm not looking to debate fair and balanced (imbalanced in your words) news, you brought that up not me. I was just asking an honest question followed up with a comment on an article that I thought was very well put. Sorry that I got your shit all out of whack and you feel the need to constantly intensify what was supposed to be a personal opinion. However,I will stop here so I can stop giving others reason to resemble this pic:
I didn't bring up any news. I quoted no articles. It's not my thread. My shit's not "out of whack". I'm also not that big of a "fan". lol

I just think she had an exceptional voice, and people feel a need to take cheap shots with laughable drug moralizing, and with the Oslo body count. lol

And I just said I think that's lame. You don't have to break out your down syndrome pics and have a cow, dude. It's gonna be ok. The media and you can co-exist. Promise. lol And I didn't mean to throw you off by actually reading what you said and responding.

[Nicole Dupre]

My major "beef" is with the media....

The bold is your opinion. And I still don't understand why you have any "beef".

[BellaBellucci]

You're being deliberately obtuse Bella to 'win' an argument.

Can't you see how human imperfection and the urge towards self-destruction are permanently linked???

Obviously Amy Winehouse was one of those people who never should have smoked a joint and taken a drink EVER.

Curiosity is alternatively a creative/self-destructive/evolutionary impulse.

It's the reason why our hominid ancestors came down out of the tree canopy and crawled to see what was over on the other side of the hill. It's the reason why sometimes a small child wants to stick her hand in the middle of a burning fire.

I just think it's unfair to moralize and condemn someone for becoming addicted to drugs, unless you believe there should be a prohibition on all psychotropic substances.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Pyschoactive_Drugs.jpg

No one sets out with the goal of becoming an addict, and to suggest somehow it's a moral failing, that someone 'let' it happen to themselves, only works if you believe all recreational drugs should be criminalized.

Aren't you a libertarian, Bella??

If one has the genetic profile to become addicted to specific chemical substances, there's very little control an individual has once those levers are tripped.

That's why drug addiction is called a disease.

SOme people have the ammunition to overcome it. Too many don't.

I'm not moralizing. I'm merely speaking my opinion (and have used what, for me, could really be considered a light touch). If you have a problem, then it's your problem, and I think that problem is that you're shocked that I can be so 'cold' about this when I'm merely stating the reality that I don't feel bad when people who've lived as if they wanted to die, finally succumb to their fatal self-destructiveness (feel better now?).

I also still think your assertion (insistence even) that self-destruction is a bi-product of curiousness or any other exploratory emotion is pure bunk. Now you're confusing bravery and precociousness with self-destruction. Every feeling we have and every action that we take that could be self-destructive is not necessarily self-destructive, even if occasionally the possibility is there. This is because true self-destruction requires intent and/or action (or lack of necessary action), particularly in the case of drug abusers who don't want to get help.

For instance, 'greed,' as you put it, is not self-destructive unless the emotion leads to an action such as Scrooging people during the holiday season for instance. If you, say, hate the holidays but you don't speak of or act upon your negative feelings, they can't be self-destructive because there's no intent to cause harm, but if you hurt others, it will breed resentment and possibly retaliation and that certainly is outwardly destructive as well as self-destructive. Sure, negative emotions can be destructive, but self-destruction requires a choice.

And again, yes I'm a Libertarian and I've said that I think Amy had every right to destroy her body, but I also have the right to not feel sympathy for her as well the right to not to praise her for her entrance into the so-called '27 Club.' If you want to glorify it, be my guest. I'm not trying to stop you as you are me.

Why are you so upset about this anyway? What do you care how I feel about it? Did I shatter your illusions of me as some kind of sweetheart? Gee, I'm sorry, with everything on TV these days I just figured people wanted reality. Silly me.

~BB~

PS: She never should have smoked a joint? What medical school did you go to? Now you're confusing weed with meth. Nice going, C. Everett Coop! :lol:

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't have any bad feelings toward you Bella.

Just feel like you're attempting to justify being coldblooded about another human being's death with the rationale that on some level it was a 'fame whore' move by Ms. Winehouse.

And yeah, it's cliche and corny, but nearly every hard user starts off with weed and alcohol.
Considering where Amy ended up, she never should have taken a hit off that first joint or drank his first glass of wine.

[BellaBellucci]

And yeah, it's cliche and corny, but nearly every hard user starts off with weed and alcohol.

That coincidence does not prove causality. That's why it's cliche and corny. :lol:

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

That coincidence does not prove causality. That's why it's cliche and corny. :lol:

~BB~


It's not coincidental.

Not everyone who started off smoking weed and drinking alcohol ends up chopping up 8-balls and shooting dope, but 99% of hard users started with marijuana and wine/beer.

For most people drug use is progressive and rarely do you skips steps.

[BellaBellucci]

It's not coincidental.

Not everyone who started off smoking weed and drinking alcohol ends up chopping up 8-balls and shooting dope, but 99% of hard users started with marijuana and wine/beer.

So then don't we agree? :?


For most people drug use is progressive and rarely do you skips steps.

I think you'd be surprised. I've known lots of hard drug users that refuse to touch marijuana and have never done so. They usually cite its low potency in comparison to their drug of choice as the reason. That said, there are plenty of people out there who skip marijuana and alcohol and go right to meth, crack, and heroin. You're right, that's not the norm, but it's another piece of evidence that when taken with the lack of evidence to show that the use of marijuana and alcohol necessarily leads to the use of other drugs, cases a huge shadow of doubt on the question of so-called 'gateway drugs.'

By your logic, shouldn't we also ban high fructose corn syrup, trans-fats, processed foods, etc because they provide a 'gateway' to poor eating habits and obesity? :?

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

No one, at least I didn't, says that doing pot/alcohol will MAKE someone become a hardcore drug user.

The point is that typically, overwhelmingly, alcohol and weed are the first two drugs anyone ever takes.

I've done a lot of different shit with a lot of different kinds of people, and not one of them didn't start by pinching wine from their parents liquor closet and taking a hit of a blunt at some house party in their early to mid/late teens.

The connection IMO is that you have fewer anxieties about experimenting with other types of drugs once you done the starter kit.

[Nikka]

http://www.fuckingnikki.com/london2009/london60.jpg

[loveboof]

The connection IMO is that you have fewer anxieties about experimenting with other types of drugs once you done the starter kit.
That's a pretty useless observation though. What point are you making? If nobody smoked weed there'd be less heroin addicts...?

I've done a fair few drugs, and started out with weed and booze - but now hardly take anything. It depends on the person not the drugs!

[BellaBellucci]

No one, at least I didn't, says that doing pot/alcohol will MAKE someone become a hardcore drug user.

The point is that typically, overwhelmingly, alcohol and weed are the first two drugs anyone ever takes.

I've done a lot of different shit with a lot of different kinds of people, and not one of them didn't start by pinching wine from their parents liquor closet and taking a hit of a blunt at some house party in their early to mid/late teens.

The connection IMO is that you have fewer anxieties about experimenting with other types of drugs once you done the starter kit.

Yeah, I can get on board with that even if I don't see how it really pertains to the debate. But on a personal note, that's not the case with me. This dialog started with my being accused of glorifying hard drug use by being a vocal proponent of marijuana decriminalization and using a reference to LSD in my profile, and as I said before, I was just being ironic. If it makes people feel better, I'll change it... but I don't think I should have to. :geek:

~BB~

[fred41]

Wasn't gonna comment on this thread but since it's still going...why not.

It's a sympathy thread...if you're not a fan or disagree with it you could've just moved on...but since a lot of people didn't just move on...or offered very negative opinions...or whatever...it hardly matters because chances are Amy Winehouse's friends and family are probably never going to check on this site to see what the good folks at HungAngels had to say.

I doubt anyone that follows the news was shocked at this, including her fans, but that doesn't mean you can't express sympathy (and again - move along if you don't want to)...but to compare it to the Oslo massacre or Somalia or any other event doesn't really make any sense.People have a natural tendency to personalize things...so that when a celebrity dies there is usually a connection there...that's why they sometimes care more than a tragic news event where people are all anonymous. There is however a reason why some people don't seem to care about Amy or Somalia and that is because you can have grown numb to both of the issues- Amy , because she's been fucked up on drugs for soooo long...and Somalia because tragedy is always happening there even in the best of times.

One other thing...I refuse to call an addiction a disease. To me it's a character weakness...that's my opinion so don't bother with the modern medical references.

[BellaBellucci]

It's a sympathy thread...if you're not a fan or disagree with it you could've just moved on...but since a lot of people didn't just move on...or offered very negative opinions...or whatever...it hardly matters because chances are Amy Winehouse's friends and family are probably never going to check on this site to see what the good folks at HungAngels had to say.

And in fact it's her family I feel sympathy for since they had to deal with her issues in life and now have to death with her death. She put them through hell I'm sure and I feel terrible about that and the collateral damage caused by hard drug use.

Beyond that, my comments have nothing to do with the fact that I'm not a fan of Amy's. I'm just a bigger fan of natural selection. If you continuously disrespect yourself and those who love you, this is the very real consequence. Period.

Amy wasn't a sympathetic figure; she was a cautionary tale. But unfortunately that won't be her legacy and nothing will be gleaned from this because living fast and dying young has become so glorified in our culture. If you want to talk about desensitation, let's talk about that, shall we?

~BB~

[loveboof]

I refuse to call an addiction a disease. To me it's a character weakness...that's my opinion so don't bother with the modern medical references.
If 'modern medicine' uncovers a gene malfunction responsible for raising the propensity for addiction, that would make it a disease.

[BellaBellucci]

If 'modern medicine' uncovers a gene malfunction responsible for raising the propensity for addiction, that would make it a disease.

Boo-ya (http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040526/researchers-identify-alcoholism-gene)!

Even still, I'm not saying we should fault her for having a disease. Her fault was in her denial of treatment and how it affected those around her.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

... and furthermore, since I'm on a roll today, sympathy is one of the motivators of both suicide and drug use. In suicidal people in particular, they feel that the tragedy of their death and the assumed posthumous sympathy will make them more valuable in death than they are in life. They're so distraught by their lives that they become so myopic and obsessive about it and they forget how final death really is and continue on their intentionally self-destructive paths. Therefore, sympathy for those who don't want help actually encourages self-destruction.

And yes, like many other girls here, I've been suicidal in the past, so I can't help but wonder why some of the more 'well-adjusted' people around here (read: those who have never been to the brink) think they know everything about the morality of life and death when they've never considered it so directly. I mean, haven't people ever questioned why it's always the same people, me included, who comment so unemotionally on some of these RIP threads? That said, it'd be a mistake to confuse my ambivalence with malice. Like I said... 'yawn,' not... 'fuck that druggie bitch.' :lol:

Geez, are we done now?

~BB~

[Jericho]

One other thing...I refuse to call an addiction a disease. To me it's a character weakness...that's my opinion so don't bother with the modern medical references.

Apso fukkin lutely.
You catch a disease, one has to work at an addiction. :shrug

[loveboof]

How do you 'catch' huntingdon's disease? (for example)

[giovanni_hotel]

You can be bio-chemically predisposed to respond to certain drugs.

For instance, heroin snorted or injected didn't ever get me where I wanted to be. I really never felt that euphoria from it.

Cocaine/XTC/weed/whiskey.....a big thumb's up.

There obviously is a genetic component to addiction, to the point it can function similarly to a disease.

Environmental factors can trigger certain disease responses, same deal with drugs and addiction.

[Nicole Dupre]

People get addicted to all kinds of things. Porn, video games, sex, violence, ego tripping, food, sleep, television, Facebook, etc. The moth/candle thing exists with everyone, in one way or another. Standing around, pointing fingers, and thinking anyone's above it, is a joke. That "I told you so" & "I'm glad I'm not like that" bullshit is laughable, when you look a little deeper into anyone's life. So when you say those tacky things, don't be shocked if people think you sound like a moron.

You might as well be saying, "I knew that Steve Irwin guy was going to die." Yeah. You're fucking brilliant. What would we ever do without you and your big, sanctimonious brain.

But PLENTY of people play their video games, watch their porn, smoke their pot, drink their booze, do their coke, jerk off, hunt alligators, become musicians, and lead fairly productive lives. Let's just cut through the crap. If you smoke pot or cigarettes or crack, you're being self-indulgent. If someone isn't smoking any of the three, they're indulging in something else. It's human nature. We have nervous systems to deal with, and they suck up stimuli and/or depressants like a sponge.

[BellaBellucci]

People get addicted to all kinds of things. Porn, video games, sex, violence, ego tripping, food, sleep, television, Facebook, etc. The moth/candle thing exists with everyone, in one way or another. Standing around, pointing fingers, and thinking anyone's above it, is a joke. That "I told you so" & "I'm glad I'm not like that" bullshit is laughable, when you look a little deeper into anyone's life. So when you say those tacky things, don't be shocked if people think you sound like a moron.

You might as well be saying, "I knew that Steve Irwin guy was going to die." Yeah. You're fucking brilliant. What would we ever do without you and your big, sanctimonious brain.

But PLENTY of people play their video games, watch their porn, smoke their pot, drink their booze, do their coke, jerk off, hunt alligators, become musicians, and lead fairly productive lives. Let's just cut through the crap. If you smoke pot or cigarettes or crack, you're being self-indulgent. If someone isn't smoking any of the three, they're indulging in something else. It's human nature. We have nervous systems to deal with, and they suck up stimuli and/or depressants like a sponge.

Now you're falsly equating self-indulgence with self-destruction. You're confusing adventurousness as well. Did Steve Irwin intend to die? Did he do what he did because it was dangerous? No, of course not. He did it despite the fact that it was dangerous and the world was a better place for it. It was an affirmation of life. He wasn't just some adrenaline junkie.

The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death. Hers was an affirmation of death.

Ahh, fuck it, if you chronic psychological projectors don't get it by now you never will. My so-called 'cold opinion' is logical and objective whether anybody likes it or not. There's nothing sanctimonious about it because in the end I'm really just being apathetic.

Maybe I'm a Vulcan.

~BB~

[Jericho]

How do you 'catch' huntingdon's disease? (for example)

Yah, ok, if you wanna be fukkin picky! :shrug
Catch/Get/Whatever

But, the point...Calling your addictions a disease is a cop-out.
At best, they're a self inflicted wound.
Own the problem.

[BellaBellucci]

Own the problem.

:iagree: Whether it's a disease or not, this statement is the crux of the Amy Winehouse controversy. She didn't 'own the problem,' and inevitably that was the problem.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Now you're falsly equating self-indulgence with self-destruction. You're confusing adventurousness as well. Did Steve Irwin intend to die? Actually, I'm not. But they're connected - unless you think you can deny that. The individual determines for themselves where to draw the line. People push limits if and when they want to. They get sober if & when they want to.l

And you can only speculate about what motivated Steve Irwin. You have no idea, and neither do I. Same goes for Amy.


Did he do what he did because it was dangerous? No, of course not. He did it despite the fact that it was dangerous and the world was a better place for it. He wasn't some adrenaline junkie.

Again, you're only guessing. But it's actually more likely that, among his other motivations to do what he did, he was. It wouldn't be the first dangerous line of work an adrenaline junkie took.


The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. I don't assume I know what the world needs. I don't know what Amy needed. Maybe she wanted to die. What's it to ya? You needed to hop on this thread to make a point? Fascinating. lol


As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death.


Again, you assume that she wanted praise, perhaps even from YOU in particular, for having addictions. lol



Ahh, fuck it, if you chronic psychological projectors don't get it by now you never will. My so-called 'cold opinion' is the logical, objective truth of the matter whether anybody likes it or not.Who's projecting other than you? You're the one with the laundry list of assumptions about what Amy and her "fans" think. lol That's a bit grandiose, don'cha think? But I mean, you were suicidal at some point. Maybe you don't always think so clearly. lol

Or is this the psychic powers thing you're using here?

[Nicole Dupre]

Maybe I'm a Vulcan. I see. lol

[BellaBellucci]

Actually, I'm not. But they're connected - unless you think you can deny that. The individual determines for themselves where to draw the line. People push limits if and when they want to. They get sober if & when they want to.l

And you can only speculate about what motivated Steve Irwin. You have no idea, and neither do I. Same goes for Amy.



Again, you're only guessing. But it's actually more likely that, among his other motivations to do what he did, he was. It wouldn't be the first dangerous line of work an adrenaline junkie took.

I don't assume I know what the world needs. I don't know what Amy needed. Maybe she wanted to die. What's it to ya? You needed to hop on this thread to make a point? Fascinating. lol



Again, you assume that she wanted praise, perhaps even from YOU in particular, for having addictions. lol


Who's projecting other than you? You're the one with the laundry list of assumptions about what Amy and her "fans" think. lol That's a bit grandiose, don'cha think? But I mean, you were suicidal at some point. Maybe you don't always think so clearly. lol

Or is this the psychic powers thing you're using here?

So you're going with the 'you weren't in their heads' defense? That's a boring one. An individual has to expect to be judged by the image they project. Steve Irwin's image was wholesome. Amy Winehouses's was not. It stood to reason that their motivations fell along those same lines, and for the most part, they did. Are you implying that Irwin was self-destructive but Amy Winehouse was a victim? Or at least that they were morally equal? Interesting.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

So you're going with the 'you weren't in their heads' defense? That's a boring one. An individual has to expect to be judged by the image they project. Steve Irwin's image was wholesome. Amy Winehouses's was not. It stood to reason that their motivations fell along those same lines, and for the most part, they did. Are you implying that Irwin was self-destructive but Amy Winehouse was a victim? Interesting.

~BB~

"Defense" of what exactly? Reality? lol You weren't in anyone's head. That's "an old one", a present one, and a future one. lol And expect to be judged in terms of what? Why judge their "wholesomeness" in the first place? Because enough people liked them, for them to become popular? What is it?

And so far I see no victims. Not one. Amy was an adult and so was Steve Irwin. I think you're projecting "victim" here. lol

[giovanni_hotel]

Steve Irwin was reckless, dangerously so. He made his vocation as a wildlife expert appear more death-defying for ratings, but I don't know how you could watch his show and not come away thinking he's taking unnecessary risks with wild animals....because he likes to do it.

Your life shouldn't be on the line every time you attempt to capture a venomous snake or spider, or wrestle an alligator to demonstrate your physical prowess.

Anyone who indulges in a dangerous behavior to the degree that Irwin did in many ways is no different from Amy Winehouse chasing the dragon.

I don't think a single person was surprised to learn that Irwin died attempting to capture a stingray WITH HIS BARE HANDS, underwater.

Self-destructive, reckless behavior has many different manifestations beyond drug abuse.

Nicole IMO is absolutely right about this one, BB.

Speak no evil of the dead. Thank you.

[Nicole Dupre]

And to answer your question, yes. The journey of a musician and a crocodile hunter are morally equal, if we're going to keep making this a question of morals. I'm not a communist who only feels compelled to be supportive of my fellow "comrades". As long as they aren't physically hurting anyone, which neither of them did, morality doesn't enter the picture of how they earned a living.

[BellaBellucci]

Steve Irwin was reckless, dangerously so. He made his vocation as a wildlife expert appear more death-defying for ratings, but I don't know how you could watch his show and not come away thinking he's taking unnecessary risks with wild animals....because he likes to do it.

... and everyone else liked him to do it, hence the humongous paychecks. He was a trained professional who practiced his craft for both entertainment and education purposes. Nobody paid Amy Winehouse to destroy her body for nobody's purposes but her own.


Your life shouldn't be on the line every time you attempt to capture a venomous snake or spider, or wrestle an alligator to demonstrate your physical prowess.

So you would completely devalue his work? Hmm.


Self-destructive, reckless behavior has many different manifestations beyond drug abuse.

If there is a positive effect, sure there's still the potential for self-destruction, but I'd still argue that self-destruction requires the actual intention of, you know... destruction. Again, taking chances with your life is seen by many as an affirmation of it. Amy Winehouse desired and caused absolute destruction to herself for no gain.

I really don't see how you and your girlfriend can't see that.


Nicole IMO is absolutely right about this one, BB.

What else is new? See: 'girlfriend' reference.


Speak no evil of the dead. Thank you.

... and learn nothing from their mistakes. Brilliant.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

... and everyone else liked him to do it, hence the humongous paychecks. He was a trained professional who practiced his craft for both entertainment and education purposes. Nobody paid Amy Winehouse to destroy her body for nobody's purposes but her own.

This is hilarious. Who trained him? Tarzan? He was adventurous. Come off it.

But it always comes down to what other people are achieving, what they have, and how they spend their money, I guess. lol



So you would completely devalue his work? Hmm.


No. But that's exactly what you're trying to do to Amy Winehouse, and it's very obvious. lol



Amy Winehouse desired and caused absolute destruction to herself for no gain.

I really don't see how you and your girlfriend can't see that.


"Gain"? She had more to show than a few people here. lol ;-)

And "GF"? LMFAO! More Vulcan psychic powers, I take it.

But that's ok. I sure don't want to steal your BF. lol

[onmyknees]

Now you're falsly equating self-indulgence with self-destruction. You're confusing adventurousness as well. Did Steve Irwin intend to die? Did he do what he did because it was dangerous? No, of course not. He did it despite the fact that it was dangerous and the world was a better place for it. It was an affirmation of life. He wasn't just some adrenaline junkie.

The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death. Hers was an affirmation of death.

Ahh, fuck it, if you chronic psychological projectors don't get it by now you never will. My so-called 'cold opinion' is logical and objective whether anybody likes it or not. There's nothing sanctimonious about it because in the end I'm really just being apathetic.

Maybe I'm a Vulcan.

~BB~


"The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death. Hers was an affirmation of death."

Bella...That's a bizarre assessment, with all due respect. I'm rewinding to see where anyone found it praiseworthy. I don't think Hendrix hurt the entire world because we were deprived of his incredible talent for many years. I think he more than likely hurt his family and friends, but just saddened the rest of us, if you happen to find his music moving. You seem to want to split hairs on the issue....I don't really think it's all that complicated. If Amy spoke to you through her art, it's entirely appropriate to feel some sense of loss. If she didn't.....( which apparently is where you fall) well then you might tend to be unaffected. I do think you raised an interesting point in one of your posts. Had I been reading the obituaries and read of a young woman who had overdosed, I'd have no connection , therefore less emotion. Not that one life is valued more than the other...it's just familiarity. That's why musicians and artists hold an elevated position in our culture...rightly or wrongly.
On addiction..........

"I caught you knockin'
at my cellar door
I love you, baby,
can I have some more
Ooh, ooh, the damage done.
I hit the city and
I lost my band
I watched the needle
take another man
Gone, gone, the damage done.
I sing the song
because I love the man
I know that some
of you don't understand
Milk-blood
to keep from running out.
I've seen the needle
and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's
like a settin' sun."

[BellaBellucci]

Bella...That's a bizarre assessment, with all due respect. I'm rewinding to see where anyone found it praiseworthy.

I was referring to our culture, not people here on the board (i.e. '27 Club'). Although people here are arguing that Amy Winehouse is worthy of sympathy, and I'm saying that IMO she's not. As far as I'm concerned, she gave that up when she refused to respect herself.

I know mine is a tough position and that many people will disagree with it, but I find it hard to believe that so few people here seem to be able to even understand the logic of it. Whatever. To each their own.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

"The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death. Hers was an affirmation of death."

That's a bizarre assessment, with all due respect. I'm rewinding to see where anyone found it praiseworthy. That is a doozie of a statement. Maybe Amy's death was some Illuminati MK Ultra shit. lol

[BellaBellucci]

That is a doozie of a statement. Maybe Amy's death was some Illuminati MK Ultra shit. lol

Say what? :?

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Are you a Wiccan?

[BellaBellucci]

Are you a Wiccan?

I'm not religious.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

What's your sense of morality based on?

[BellaBellucci]

What's your sense of morality based on?

Nunya. And I'd ask you the same question except that I know that yours is based on personal expediency.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Nunya. And I'd ask you the same question except that I know that yours is based on personal expediency.

~BB~
Wow. You made a moral distinction, and you can't even say what it's based on?

Mine's based on The Golden Rule.

The Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Ambox_question.svg" class="image"><img alt="Ambox question.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Ambox_question.svg/40px-Ambox_question.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/1b/Ambox_question.svg/40px-Ambox_question.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule)

[Nicole Dupre]

But thanks for doing your Vulcan thing. lol

[BellaBellucci]

Wow. You made a moral distinction, and you can't even say what it's based on?

Mine's based on the Golden Rule.

http://www.3packets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lolz.jpg

You're a funny lady, Nicole Dupre. :lol:

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.3packets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lolz.jpg

You're a funny lady, Nicole Dupre. :lol:

~BB~
Ok. You have no real answers. I'm not surprised

[BellaBellucci]

Ok. You have no real answers. I'm not surprised

I'm just not going to play this game with you. I said what I had to say, take it or leave it.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Just because you have no answer doesn't make it a game. lol I thought it was a pretty fair question. But okee. lol Bye.

[loveboof]

What's your sense of morality based on?
Morality is not definitively connected to religion. Obviously you're not suggesting otherwise?

Why does Amy deserve any sympathy? Her family and friends maybe, but their loss is fairly unimportant to me tbh.

Was she a world talent like Jimi Hendrix/Jim Morrison ? (other 27'ers) no. Her first album sucked balls, and then her producers reinvented the sound which lead to a few good songs... End of story really :)

[Prospero]

A profound critical judgement - it "sucked balls." Well argued.

[loveboof]

A profound critical judgement - it "sucked balls." Well argued.
lol. Well give it a listen and tell me if you think I'm wrong ...

We're dealing with an art form here so it has to be subjective, and I'm sure there are some ignorant teenagers out there who think she's made an important contribution to music - on a par with the other 27'ers.. I mean who is Robert Johnson anyway? She must be better than some dude from the 20's right?

[Nicole Dupre]

Morality is not definitively connected to religion. Obviously you're not suggesting otherwise?

I didn't say morality = religion.lol

I just remember Bella being into Wicca and having supposed psychic abilities. And I figured, that's her thing; paganism. She compared Amy's & S Irwin's "morality", giving a higher score to Steve Irwin. I just asked what she calls morality. Personally, I base mine on common sense. And just about every school of thought in the world came up with the same thing. "Don't be a douchebag." lol :-)


Why does Amy deserve any sympathy? Her family and friends maybe, but their loss is fairly unimportant to me tbh.Who cares who you "sympathize" for? lol Did you leave cookies in a basket for them? You have nothing to do with it.


Was she a world talent like Jimi Hendrix/Jim Morrison ? (other 27'ers) no. Her first album sucked balls, and then her producers reinvented the sound which lead to a few good songs... End of story really :)

I don't think Jim Morrison was a genuine "talent", as much as he was a lyricist and poet. And the Doors definitely had their cheesy "lounge act" moments.

Jimi Hendrix was genuinely innovative and talented. But his band, wardrobe, etc were picked out by his management. He was a project, to some extent. And he died all doped up too. I'm not sure if you "sympathize" w/ him, but whatever. (Bella has no respect for him, I'm sure.)

Amy, by the way, was a better singer than both of those guys, easily.

[loveboof]

Amy was a great singer. But she was not as talented or as influential as some of the other 27'ers.

When someone dies people usually rush to extend their sympathies - I said why does she deserve sympathy? And the reason her family's loss is unimportant to me is exactly because it's nothing to do with me.

But as she was an artist and public figure I have an opinion on her work.

[Nicole Dupre]

Amy was a great singer. But she was not as talented or as influential as some of the other 27'ers.

When someone dies people usually rush to extend their sympathies - I said why does she deserve sympathy? And the reason her family's loss is unimportant to me is exactly because it's nothing to do with me.

But as she was an artist and public figure I have an opinion on her work.
Makes sense to me. :-)

[Nicole Dupre]

&#x202a;Amy Winehouse found dead.R.I.P Interview.&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1iu52L9mUk)

[giovanni_hotel]

"The world was not improved by Amy Winehouse's addiction. In fact, if you're really a fan, you should be able agree that she may have hurt the entire world by depriving it of her talent. As I said, she had a right to do what she did but it was far from praiseworthy, even in death, or even especially in death. Hers was an affirmation of death."

Bella...That's a bizarre assessment, with all due respect. I'm rewinding to see where anyone found it praiseworthy. I don't think Hendrix hurt the entire world because we were deprived of his incredible talent for many years. I think he more than likely hurt his family and friends, but just saddened the rest of us, if you happen to find his music moving. You seem to want to split hairs on the issue....I don't really think it's all that complicated. If Amy spoke to you through her art, it's entirely appropriate to feel some sense of loss. If she didn't.....( which apparently is where you fall) well then you might tend to be unaffected. I do think you raised an interesting point in one of your posts. Had I been reading the obituaries and read of a young woman who had overdosed, I'd have no connection , therefore less emotion. Not that one life is valued more than the other...it's just familiarity. That's why musicians and artists hold an elevated position in our culture...rightly or wrongly.
On addiction..........

"I caught you knockin'
at my cellar door
I love you, baby,
can I have some more
Ooh, ooh, the damage done.
I hit the city and
I lost my band
I watched the needle
take another man
Gone, gone, the damage done.
I sing the song
because I love the man
I know that some
of you don't understand
Milk-blood
to keep from running out.
I've seen the needle
and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's
like a settin' sun."

Is onmyknees my BF because I dig his Neil Young drop, Bella??
(BTW he's one the few men/musicians if I'm in that mood, can make me flat out cry!!)

Just because I happen to agree with someone whom I like personally, doesn't mean Nicole is leading me around through a ring in my nose,(although that's not to say she couldn't!!lol).

I don't dislike you Bella, but you are stubborn to a fault.

A famous musician ODed and died. Some liked her. Others didn't.

No reason to trash her because of her drug addiction.
She didn't OD to become 'famous'.

[Prospero]

Can't we just shut this discussion down. Let her music now speak to those who could hear its virtues and quality and for the rest.. well there is a world awash with different types of music out there. Let her RIP.

[Nicole Dupre]

&#x202a;Amy Winehouse - Valerie - Acoustic acapella&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6JRttxTBC8)

[smoothdude]

Wonder if this means my Amy CD collection will go up in price?

Some of the Jacko albums are going for a fortune now

[dderek123]

&#x202a;Amy Winehouse - Valerie - Acoustic acapella&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6JRttxTBC8)

The Zutons version is better.

She has awesome talent there. Seemed like it was fading away during her last years due to the drug use. Shame.

[mickbristol]

Anybody can look from the outside and see Amy had a rough go of things in her personal life. When you're in the midst of it though, what's right for you isn't always clear. I'm not making any bold pronouncements here, just saying that you can hate on her all you like, but it only proves that she did mean something to you. I, for one, will readily admit that I cried when I found out she was dead. Her voice provided me with something for which there is no substitute.

[doctor screw]

R.i.p

[Jericho]

Hmm, yes, ok!

[Faldur]

Is she still dead?

[EvonRose]

I was deeply saddened because I had hope for her to get better and recover and make the lovely music she always had made... Getting over a hard break with my ex for 3 years starting at 17 I listened to "tears dry on their own" and made me realize that It's going to be okay and Another man out there would be honored to call me his lover... Love you Ms Winehouse!!!

[Willie Escalade]

When they did the autopsy she didn't have any drugs in her system...

[BellaBellucci]

When they did the autopsy she didn't have any drugs in her system...

Her mom thinks she died from withdrawals from quitting cold turkey. Oh, the irony!

On the other hand though, maybe it wasn't ironic. She was never the type to do anything in moderation, even quitting.

~BB~

[robertlouis]

She was an extraordinary talent, as a singer, writer and all-round musician.

Just tragic to see someone with those gifts destroyed.

[EvonRose]

Her mom thinks she died from withdrawals from quitting cold turkey. Oh, the irony!

On the other hand though, maybe it wasn't ironic. She was never the type to do anything in moderation, even quitting.

~BB~

well also she had many health problems, she had bad liver from alcohol, bad lungs from smoking cigarettes, crack, and freebasing, and had bad heart due to bulimia... any of those could have killed her.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TaPubacOLM&feature=feedrec_grec_index

[russtafa]

i don't know if she will lie still will all the drugs in her system

[Jericho]

Is she still dead?

she'd better be, they buried her! :shrug