GOP Endangers America's Future for Political Gain

[BluegrassCat]

It's tough to come to any other conclusion given the behavior of the Republican negotiators over the debt ceiling and what it would take to avoid a default on U.S. debt.

The Republicans just walked away from a debt reduction deal that was basically a love letter to conservatives. It would have been comprised of over 80% spending cuts and less than 20% tax increases, more conservative than the plan proposed by the "Grandpa" Simpson & Bowles Commission. In fact, just such a balance of spending cuts & revenue increases is advocated by a paper presented on Boehner's website, meaning that he and most of the GOP have no problem whatsoever with an 85:15 breakdown. (Recall that the Clinton deficit reduction plan was evenly balanced 50:50 and led to record-breaking economic growth and prosperity.) Their problem appears to be with letting the president get ANYTHING done that might help the economy.

It's recently been the case that presidents' biggest domestic achievements tend to have been when they employ ideas from the opposite party (think Clinton & welfare, Bush & Medicare Part D) and we saw Obama use a Republican governor's healthcare plan rather than a liberal single-payer approach hoping for bipartisan support. Ditto with Cap & Trade, a Republican plan from a decade ago, that now receives zero Republican support with Obama in office. It's not that Obama's policies are liberal, they're aren't, it's that the GOP can't let him have any victories which might get him re-elected. And while all of this is deeply hypocritical and embarrassing for them as party it wasn't dangerous until now.

We all know how unpatriotic Limbaugh is because he openly and proudly roots against our president and our country but you'd think elected officials might have some residual feelings of honor or duty to see our country through a tough time.

So it will be interesting to see how thoroughly the GOP has been captured, not by ideology, but by extreme & cynical partisan politicking. There's nothing conservative about defaulting on U.S. debt (in fact it's unconstitutional) but if the Republicans think that wrecking the economy again will unseat Obama, they'll probably do it, America be damned.

[Silcc69]

It's tough to come to any other conclusion given the behavior of the Republican negotiators over the debt ceiling and what it would take to avoid a default on U.S. debt.

The Republicans just walked away from a debt reduction deal that was basically a love letter to conservatives. It would have been comprised of over 80% spending cuts and less than 20% tax increases, more conservative than the plan proposed by the "Grandpa" Simpson & Bowles Commission. In fact, just such a balance of spending cuts & revenue increases is advocated by a paper presented on Boehner's website, meaning that he and most of the GOP have no problem whatsoever with an 85:15 breakdown. (Recall that the Clinton deficit reduction plan was evenly balanced 50:50 and led to record-breaking economic growth and prosperity.) Their problem appears to be with letting the president get ANYTHING done that might help the economy.

It's recently been the case that presidents' biggest domestic achievements tend to have been when they employ ideas from the opposite party (think Clinton & welfare, Bush & Medicare Part D) and we saw Obama use a Republican governor's healthcare plan rather than a liberal single-payer approach hoping for bipartisan support. Ditto with Cap & Trade, a Republican plan from a decade ago, that now receives zero Republican support with Obama in office. It's not that Obama's policies are liberal, they're aren't, it's that the GOP can't let him have any victories which might get him re-elected. And while all of this is deeply hypocritical and embarrassing for them as party it wasn't dangerous until now.

We all know how unpatriotic Limbaugh is because he openly and proudly roots against our president and our country but you'd think elected officials might have some residual feelings of honor or duty to see our country through a tough time.

So it will be interesting to see how thoroughly the GOP has been captured, not by ideology, but by extreme & cynical partisan politicking. There's nothing conservative about defaulting on U.S. debt (in fact it's unconstitutional) but if the Republicans think that wrecking the economy again will unseat Obama, they'll probably do it, America be damned.

3 words:

One term president

[beandip]

Ever hear of cutting spending?

Congress holds the purse strings anyway....

Why do you consider it unpatriotic if one disagrees with the POTUS?

[trish]

It's traitorous to say from the outset that you will do everything possible to make sure the president fails, including sinking the economy and failing to approve his appointees on the grounds that they actually agree with the stated missions of their would be posts. So on this 4th of July weekend all traitors can go fuck themselves.

[onmyknees]

It's tough to come to any other conclusion given the behavior of the Republican negotiators over the debt ceiling and what it would take to avoid a default on U.S. debt.

The Republicans just walked away from a debt reduction deal that was basically a love letter to conservatives. It would have been comprised of over 80% spending cuts and less than 20% tax increases, more conservative than the plan proposed by the "Grandpa" Simpson & Bowles Commission. In fact, just such a balance of spending cuts & revenue increases is advocated by a paper presented on Boehner's website, meaning that he and most of the GOP have no problem whatsoever with an 85:15 breakdown. (Recall that the Clinton deficit reduction plan was evenly balanced 50:50 and led to record-breaking economic growth and prosperity.) Their problem appears to be with letting the president get ANYTHING done that might help the economy.

It's recently been the case that presidents' biggest domestic achievements tend to have been when they employ ideas from the opposite party (think Clinton & welfare, Bush & Medicare Part D) and we saw Obama use a Republican governor's healthcare plan rather than a liberal single-payer approach hoping for bipartisan support. Ditto with Cap & Trade, a Republican plan from a decade ago, that now receives zero Republican support with Obama in office. It's not that Obama's policies are liberal, they're aren't, it's that the GOP can't let him have any victories which might get him re-elected. And while all of this is deeply hypocritical and embarrassing for them as party it wasn't dangerous until now.

We all know how unpatriotic Limbaugh is because he openly and proudly roots against our president and our country but you'd think elected officials might have some residual feelings of honor or duty to see our country through a tough time.

So it will be interesting to see how thoroughly the GOP has been captured, not by ideology, but by extreme & cynical partisan politicking. There's nothing conservative about defaulting on U.S. debt (in fact it's unconstitutional) but if the Republicans think that wrecking the economy again will unseat Obama, they'll probably do it, America be damned.


Interesting take on things..........but elections have consequences as someone once said, and if you rewind to last autumn, you'll recall a nationwide rebuke of liberals and by extension their fiscal policies.
For the first time in a number of years, fiscal conservatives not only have a seat at the table, but some fairly substantial leverage and they're going to use it no matter how much the Demagoguer in Chief whines about corporate jets, which is the equivalent of a pissing in the ocean.
I have yet to see Obama's plan........have you? You tell us what the plan is, but that's not what the reports I heard were....and his budget went down to a 97-0 thrashing in the Senate, so how serious is he? I realize he's otherwise preoccupied with a full calendar of fundraising events and family vacations, but you country needs you Mr. President. In the aftermath of the Republicans walking away from the talks, Obama held a press conference. In that conference he eluded to taxing owners and users of corporate jets no less than 10 times....and this after a fairly nice slice of cash went to the makers of these same jets by way of Mr. Obama's stimulus. If that's the type nonsense he's bringing to the table, I'd have walked to.
Here's all you need to know about the seriousness of Obama.....in evaluating Obama's performance after the press conference, a liberal Obama suck up Wahsington reporter, on a far left cable network told the panel he sounded like a "dick". I think that pretty much sums it up. I couldn't agree more...No need for me to follow that with anything.

[trish]

For the first time in a number of years, fiscal conservatives not only have a seat at the tableBullshit. Real fiscal conservatives would increase taxes on the wealthy until they're up to the Reagan level of taxation. The insipid assholes Onmyknees is talking about are pawns (some witting and some not) of the corporate power structure.


...he's otherwise preoccupied with a full calendar of fundraising events and family vacations...Really!! You really want to go there after eight years of a commander in chief who went to bed at 8:00 in the evening, got up and rode bicycle until noon and spent more time clearing bush on his ranch than the average GI spent on the ground in Iraq.

[hippifried]

Bullshit. Real fiscal conservatives would increase taxes on the wealthy until they're up to the Reagan level of taxation. The insipid assholes Onmyknees is talking about are pawns (some witting and some not) of the corporate power structure.
Yeah me too. I'm really sick of this tired old attempt to use the most extreme political positions to describe the central core of civil political debate, to the exclusion of all else. The liberal side of me resents the bogus labels of communist, extremist, socialist, radical, or even left wing as an attempt to falsely discredit anything I might say or think, regardless of which wing the label comes from. The conservative side of me (yes there is one) resents the bogus labels of fascist, extremist, reactionary, or even right wing as an attempt to falsely discredit anything I might say or think, regardless of which wing the label comes from. It's all bogus. You can't predict someone's position on an issue by their position on an unrelated issue. The boxes that are supposed to pigeonhole folks are a myth for the most part.

[BluegrassCat]

David Brooks is stealing from my posts for his column. Maybe I should write for the NYT lol. Anyway straight from the mouth of a (moderate) Republican:

"...If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.



A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.
The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary.



This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers.



But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.



The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.
The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.
The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency. A nation makes a sacred pledge to pay the money back when it borrows money. But the members of this movement talk blandly of default and are willing to stain their nation’s honor.



The members of this movement have no economic theory worthy of the name. Economists have identified many factors that contribute to economic growth, ranging from the productivity of the work force to the share of private savings that is available for private investment. Tax levels matter, but they are far from the only or even the most important factor.
But to members of this movement, tax levels are everything. Members of this tendency have taken a small piece of economic policy and turned it into a sacred fixation. They are willing to cut education and research to preserve tax expenditures. Manufacturing employment is cratering even as output rises, but members of this movement somehow believe such problems can be addressed so long as they continue to worship their idol.
Over the past week, Democrats have stopped making concessions. They are coming to the conclusion that if the Republicans are fanatics then they better be fanatics, too.



The struggles of the next few weeks are about what sort of party the G.O.P. is — a normal conservative party or an odd protest movement that has separated itself from normal governance, the normal rules of evidence and the ancient habits of our nation.



If the debt ceiling talks fail, independents voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don’t take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.



And they will be right."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html

[beandip]

It's tough to come to any other conclusion given the behavior of the Republican negotiators over the debt ceiling and what it would take to avoid a default on U.S. debt.

Another complete fucking moron.

Math.

4th grade math.

If your household takes in $1000.00 a month and you spend $1200.00 a month do you ask for an addition line of credit and go FURTHER into debt?

No, you fucking idiot.

You cut overhead (expenses). There is no reason to "default". You cut government spending.

There is no need for new taxes.

Obama the piece of shit has not even acknowledged that cutting spending is an option. I guess that's what you get when you hire a leech-fuck "community organizer" to run a country. He has no business experience.

All he knows how to do is suck banker cock.

[trish]

No, if you can't meet your obligations just not spending more won't help; you still have economic obligations which you will default on if you don't increase revenues. Perhaps you should retake that math course you're always talking about. Btw, you're out of touch or lying: Obama has given the GOP the spending cut deal of the century, but they turned it down because it also has taxes increases on the wealthy.

[BluegrassCat]

Another complete fucking moron.

Math.

4th grade math.

If your household takes in $1000.00 a month and you spend $1200.00 a month do you ask for an addition line of credit and go FURTHER into debt?

No, you fucking idiot.

You cut overhead (expenses). There is no reason to "default". You cut government spending.

There is no need for new taxes.

Obama the piece of shit has not even acknowledged that cutting spending is an option. I guess that's what you get when you hire a leech-fuck "community organizer" to run a country. He has no business experience.

All he knows how to do is suck banker cock.

My, what an angry little dip. I'm glad you passed 4th grade math, shame you failed 5th grade civics. The debt ceiling vote is completely redundant. The Congress has already voted for this spending. Raising the debt ceiling is not borrowing more, it's paying existing bills. Hence the word default, we would default on our bills if we don't raise it.

And btw the only people who rely on the "if you were in debt would you borrow more to get out" analogy are either fucking clueless or liars.

[Faldur]

Our government is spending money like a 14 year old tween at the mall. The conservatives in the House are just taking her credit card away.

Whine all you want, days of spending are over. Deal with it.

[trish]

No, the conservatives are reneging on the debt; deliberately attempting to throw us into bankruptcy and all for misconstrued political leverage.

[BluegrassCat]

Our government is spending money like a 14 year old tween at the mall. The conservatives in the House are just taking her credit card away.


Are 14 year-olds still considered tweens? But seriously if anyone is behaving like an irresponsible child it's clearly the GOP. They are the kid that demands to play with someone else's birthday presents. When an adult steps in and says, "No, no, no, little Johnnie Boehner. This isn't your birthday, you only control one half of one branch of government. You need to let everyone else play too," the spoiled brat breaks the toys rather than share them.




Whine all you want, days of spending are over. Deal with it.

LOL. I don't know how you think government works but it turns out it's by spending money. If the days of spending are truly over then America itself is over. I, for one, want to see America continue.

[BluegrassCat]

Btw, you're out of touch or lying:




And btw the only people who rely on the "if you were in debt would you borrow more to get out" analogy are either fucking clueless or liars.

Posted at the same time to the same troll, lol. Sane minds think alike. Not that Trish isn't brilliant but you only need to be reality based and honest to make these observations.

[Faldur]

No, the conservatives are reneging on the debt; deliberately attempting to throw us into bankruptcy and all for misconstrued political leverage.

Amen Trish, some lessons have to be learned the hard way. Hang on to your assholes folks, the free ride is over.

[trish]

So you're willing to default on our debts, dissolve our AAA rating, kill job growth for another decade and eliminate all economic safety nets for the average household, just to keep the wealthiest one percent of Americans from having to pay a dime more in taxes and get that African out of the White House. We hear you.

[jm813]

Dear Republicans, Reagan Raised Taxes 11 Times, Tripled the Deficit and Raised the Debt Ceiling 17 Times. Swallow That Pill.

[Faldur]

So you're willing to default on our debts, dissolve our AAA rating, kill job growth for another decade and eliminate all economic safety nets for the average household, just to keep the wealthiest one percent of Americans from having to pay a dime more in taxes and get that African out of the White House. We hear you.

Yes, when you have insanity reigning in the form of irresponsible spending as we do, you have to do what ever is necessary. Cut, cap, balance.. got some tough years ahead of us, but we'll be back stronger than ever.

[Faldur]

Dear Republicans, Reagan Raised Taxes 11 Times, Tripled the Deficit and Raised the Debt Ceiling 17 Times. Swallow That Pill.

http://rlv.zcache.com/its_over_johnny_tshirt-p23597945348558978433bu_400.jpg

[trish]

Once again.
1) You want to see America default on its debts.
2) You want to see our bond rating drop.
3) You don't care if the stock market crashes.
4) You won't mind if job growth is further depressed for years.
5) You don't give a shit if people have no safety net, health insurance or functioning schools, local and State governments.

It's worth it to stop "irresponsible spending." Doesn't that strike you as a bit irresponsible, given that Obama already offered to trim spending on government programs by $4,000,000,000,000.00 and was turned down because he want to increase revenues as well? You guys aren't really worried about spending, you're just slaves to an idiot-ology.

[trish]

It's Over Johnny, for the increasingly dysfunctional GOP. Americans are tired of GOP intransigence on taxes and want to see a solution that decreases government spending and increases taxes on the wealthy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148472/Deficit-Americans-Prefer-Spending-Cuts-Open-Tax-Hikes.aspx

[Faldur]

Once again.
1) You want to see America default on its debts.
2) You want to see our bond rating drop.
3) You don't care if the stock market crashes.
4) You won't mind if job growth is further depressed for years.
5) You don't give a shit if people have no safety net, health insurance or functioning schools, local and State governments.

It's worth it to stop "irresponsible spending." Doesn't that strike you as a bit irresponsible, given that Obama already offered to trim spending on government programs by $4,000,000,000,000.00 and was turned down because he want to increase revenues as well? You guys aren't really worried about spending, you're just slaves to an idiot-ology.

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) Yes
6) Yes (one for good measure)

What is so hard to understand about that? I think its a "YES"..

[trish]

Good, we have it on record that you admit you're attempting to be responsible by being five times more irresponsible.

[hippifried]

A big YES to "idiot-ology".

[Stavros]

I thought that on Faldur's deficit thread we -on both sides of the Atlantic- had tried to find some practical measures to deal with this, and I still find it hard to believe that certain people -in Washington DC- have placed their political careers above sensible policies -yes, you are in a hole and its probably a good idea to stop digging, but its a hole, not a grave. So many brains, so much capital, such little imagination.

[Faldur]

but its a hole, not a grave.

You make a good point Stavros, but I think our opinion differs on the severity of our current situation. IMHO were a stage 4 cancer patient, and unfortunately the treatment is not going to be pleasant.

[Faldur]

A big YES to "idiot-ology".

Really?

"Now, people when I say that look at me and say, 'What are you talking about, Joe? You're telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?'" Biden said. "The answer is yes, that's what I'm telling you."

"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy".

“AFTER YEARS OF HISTORIC DEFICITS, THIS 110th CONGRESS WILL COMMIT ITSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD; PAY-AS-YOU-GO, NO NEW DEFICIT SPENDING. OUR NEW AMERICA WILL PROVIDE UNLIMITED OPPORTUNITY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS, NOT BURDEN THEM WITH MOUNTAINS OF DEBT.” …Nancy Pelosi, 2007

[trish]

Raising the debt ceiling is not NEW deficit spending, it's simply acting responsibly and paying the bills. Yes, we need to cut spending; but we also need to increase revenues, eliminate loopholes (like the tax loophole for company jets), and meet our social as well as economic commitments.

[hippifried]

Really?

Just quoting you, spud.

[beandip]

It's worth it to stop "irresponsible spending." Doesn't that strike you as a bit irresponsible, given that Obama already offered to trim spending on government programs by $4,000,000,000,000.00 and was turned down because he want to increase revenues as well? You guys aren't really worried about spending, you're just slaves to an idiot-ology.

Proof? 4T? hahahahahahaha

Yea, pull FUTURE tax revenue forward to pay YESTERDAYS DEBT. Mindless fucking moron.

Well look what happened when Reagan tried that. It's easy to talk shit and "promise" things....

who promised to close Gitmo?

who promised to remove all troops from Iraq and Trash-can-istan

We have a nobel peace prize winner who OK's crossing international borders and assassinating US citizens if they are deemed a "threat". Nice.

You fucking people are mindless ideologues.

It's math, not politics.

Your household takes in $1000.00 a month....you pay out $1200.00 a month, what do you do? Do you take out a loan to pay the difference? No. You trim the fat.

There is no risk of defaulting because thankfully we DO take in enough to pay the interest on the debt now. FEDGOV and the shit-bag leech-fucks need to get a 33% hair cut, fast.

It's coming by hook or crook. Wouldn't want to be you, for sure.

But hey....continue to be assholes..."hope and change"......hahahahahahaha

[Faldur]

Just quoting you, spud.

Think you may have misread who made that "quote". But keep coming back sport, we'll keep a chair warm for ya.

[beandip]

Funny how no one can actually cite ANY cuts that Obama supposedly said to offered (4T) in a Whore house leak last week.....


LOL

Charles Krauthammer Accuses Press of 'Accepting Every Leak Out of the White House'

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppa.... (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/07/15/charles-krauthammer-accuses-press-accepting-every-leak-out-white-hous#ixzz1SMyawuhX)

Charles Krauthammer on Friday marvelously demonstrated just how in the pockets of Barack Obama America's news media are.

After claiming on PBS's "Inside Washington" that we now have a "completely compliant, pliant, supine press accepting every leak out of the White House," he silenced the entire panel by asking them to name one specific cut to entitlements the President has proposed (video follows with transcript and commentary):

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: [The President] talks a good game. “Oh, I’m prepared to do entitlements, I’m ready to do entitlements.” Not once has he ever enunciated in public - other than all these leaks which I don’t trust for half a second – one structural change in entitlements, and without that, everybody over the age of nine knows we are not going to get a handle on the debt. So let’s hear him say it in public once.

NINA TOTENBERG, NPR: So why is it when he offered the big deal, the $4 trillion deal…

GORDON PETERSON, HOST: The grand bargain.

TOTENBERG: …the grand bargain, Republicans backed away from it?

KRAUTHAMMER: When did he offer that?

TOTENBERG: He offered that last week.

KRAUTHAMMER: Where?

TOTENBERG: In, he did it, publicly and in negotiations.

KRAUTHAMMER: In your leaks? What’s in the $4 trillion?

TOTENBERG: But Charles.

KRAUTHAMMER: Give me a number. Explain to me what’s in it.

TOTENBERG: Why is it, in two, in matter of two days, Republicans backed away from that and said we don’t want it?

KRAUTHAMMER: You accept everything he says, a $4 trillion deal, if you don’t have a single item in it that you can enunciate.

TOTENBERG: Well, I’m not at the table. Perhaps you are, but I’m not.

KRAUTHAMMER: Well then how does he expect America to accept something in which he explains nothing?

TOTENBERG: He actually said I’m going to get heat from my own people.

Moments later when others on the panel continued with similar rhetoric concerning the President’s so-called plan to reduce entitlement spending, Krauthammer struck again:

KRAUTHAMMER: My colleagues are demonstrating a point I’ve been trying to make about how you have a completely compliant, pliant, supine press accepting every leak out of the White House. Tell me, we have been told, I’ve heard it again and again that the President’s prepared to do, to make cuts in entitlements. Name me one.

PETERSON: Charles, a complete and compliant supine press. I love that.

KRAUTHAMMER: Yeah.

PETERSON: Let’s move along.

KRAUTHAMMER: I’ve got, I’ve got other adjectives, but we’re short on time.

PETERSON: Yes, and we have to keep it on the air.

Once again, Krauthammer demonstrated a fabulous point.

For weeks the media have been telling Americans the President's big budget plan offered cuts in entitlements, but none of them can actually name what those cuts are.

Keep on suckin' Obama's ass you morons.

[Faldur]

Great post Beandip. And here Indiana shows the nation how its done.. (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hoosiers-show-how-its-done-indiana-posts-a-surplus-and-dems-are-unhappy/)

[trish]

The GOP decides tax-breaks for corporate jets are well worth defaulting on our bills. It's all about priorities.

Taxes in the U.S. over the last ten years have been the lowest they've been for the last fifty. So how come those "job creators" weren't making jobs during the Bush administration? They're currently making record profits. Production rates are higher than ever. Laborers are producing more goods per worker than thought possible, yet have diminished wages and no benefits. What are the fucking "job creators" doing? Hiring lawyers, lobbyists and paying off GOPers to keep their loopholes, that's what they're doing.

[Faldur]

The GOP decides tax-breaks for corporate jets are well worth defaulting on our bills. It's all about priorities.

Heres where I think your wrong Trish, the conservatives don't want to see those hardworking people who build small jets punished as political pawns. You want to change that tax policy do it at a time when the country is working.

Now if you excuse me I need to see if Marvin has finished washing my Gulfstream II.

[trish]

It's not a tax break for people who make jets you idiot; it's a tax break for the corporate execs already own them. It's not about production. It's about privilege for the moneyed.

[Faldur]

It's not a tax break for people who make jets you idiot; it's a tax break for the corporate execs already own them. It's not about production. It's about privilege for the moneyed.

Ok, well I don't recall calling you an idiot and I don't think that was warranted. Debate can be civil, no matter your position.

According to the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA), Congress seems to be “attacking” corporate jets. “That talk may appear to be good politics, but the reality is it could hurt one of the leading manufacturing industries in the U.S,” says GAMA spokeswoman Katie Pribyl.

[trish]

Hey, when you're argument is idiotic, you're an idiot.

[beandip]

No, ideologue idiots will always be idiots. Simple math does not roll well with politics. Let's talk math.

They eschew personal responsibility and only think group think, like hiippifried. Baked beyond all hope, a walking talking anus who stated three years ago here the CDS's were "no problem".

Now he and Trish are fucking whining about default. Two assholes cut from the same cloth.

Seems AIG is still on the hook for 7T. There fore through the machinations of Bernanke / Geithner... the taxpayers of the US are still on the hook for 7T. Again, you ASSHOLES, this will be future tax monies bought forward to pay for TODAY's bankster bail outs in QE-III

You fucking morons, how does it feel to be debt slaves?

But hey.... "hope and change" will work out....eventually... bake another fatty ASSHOLES.

I have absolutely no sympathy for you useless leechfuck shit-bags.

[beandip]

The GOP decides tax-breaks for corporate jets are well worth defaulting on our bills. It's all about priorities.

Again, full on retard at work here. Congress has the purse strings. Who controls congress you shit bag?

I am so fucking sick of ignorant leechfucks who have no grasp of 6th grade civics classes,

[beandip]

Hey, when you're argument is idiotic, you're an idiot.

Yea, never let the facts get in the way of hyperbole you useless waste of oxygen.

[trish]

Again, full on retard at work here. Congress has the purse strings. Who controls congress you shit bag?
Those block voting idiots who can't think for themselves with the filibuster proof minority you useless, leechfuck, waste of oxygen. Get the facts straight.

[beandip]

edumacation is a good thing.

join (free)

read.

Learn.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190174

Pry your lips from the Demo-Publican cock for 3 minutes, ok?

No one will spell it out in easier terms for you and the shit-bag hippifried better than Karl.

Math.

It's really simple.

[beandip]

Raising the debt ceiling is not NEW deficit spending, it's simply acting responsibly and paying the bills.

Holy
Mother
Fucking
Shit.

You are a moron.

WHERE the FUCK do you think this money comes from?


Look at what you said.

Ok, seriously......................................
you run a business...... you have X amount of dollars coming in the front door. You have bills to pay. VERY SOON... like in WEEKS....your bills will EXCEED your fucking income coming in the door.

And...YOU want to raise the debt ceiling?

YOU want to BORROW more money?

Either through TAXATION (sucks money OUT of the economy) or BORROWING (AKA Turbo tax timmae)......YOU want to run a bigger deficit?

You are an idiot.

Fuck you... you shit-bag leech fuck. Stay the fuck out of my wallet. If YOU want to be generous with YOUR hard earned money..... there is nothing stopping YOU from cutting a goddamned check for 10K to Uncle Sham on April 15th......should you feel the need to pay more taxes for other leechfucks.

[trish]

No, moron, you pay your fucking bills which is exactly what it means in the present case to raise the debt ceiling. If you got X dollars and you need more, you increase your revenue,. Not buying more won't pay the bills already icurred or meet the commitments already made.

[beandip]

If you got X dollars and you need more, you increase your revenue,. Not buying more won't pay the bills already icurred or meet the commitments already made.

ok. lets play..... how do YOU want to "increase your revenue"?

Do you even know how the government is funded? Hint: notice WHO is not buying US Tbonds anymore?



So.... tell me you idiot. We have no buyers of future debt......we're the worlds crack whore who can't suck a dick for 10 bucks anymore.... so Eisenstein, how would you suggest we raise revenue?

I'm all ears like the little dude from texas.


Not buying more won't meet the commitments.

No shit sherlock, at least you're 1/4 the way there. You've been lied too. Turbo Timmae SAID last week in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that there is no SS "lockbox" (much to the dismay of ALGORE).

So you're fucked.

Welfare?

You're fucked.

SS?

You're fucked.

got it?

Those are called unfunded liabilities.

Do you know WTF "unfunded" means"

Fuck you.

Fuck your bullshit "commitments".

Fuck your teachers unions (see Illinois and NJ)

Fuck your Police Unions.

Fuck your Firemans Unions.

Got it dipshit?

Comprenede'?

It's simple fucking math, hold on 'cause if your a government leechfuck you're gonna get ass-raped sideways with a goddamned chain saw in the next 2 years, I for one couldn't be happier. I'm tired of payin' for your shit.

You want an instant 10-15 percent drop in GDP? Start taxin' more you dumbfuck. Do you know the definition of a depression? It's 4 quarters of downturn.... we've been in a full on depression since 2008.... and you want to tax more you moron.

The berenanke shit show painted himself into a corner....all based on his college "thesis". Guess what. it ain't workin'.

Even the asshat Greenscam admitted that QE-II has NOT worked..... last week on national TV.

Get with the program hunny.... crack open the 4th grade mathematics book again and take a look.

[beandip]

...and I would re-iterate you idiot.... please expound on:

1. The SPECIFICS of Obama's big 4T "plan" (hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha)

and...

2.Exactly how you plan on "increasing your revenue".

[trish]

Wow dippy, you know some really foul language. Too bad you forgot to make a point. Btw, do your own fucking research. Perhaps Boener can tell all about the 4 trillion in cuts he turned down.
Raise taxes on the wealthy back to Reagan levels.

[beandip]

No facts.
No retort.
Nuthin' to say. You can't even support your so called POV in a debate.

You can't even answer my two basic questions I've asked of you.

In short, you're "Not even wrong"

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

Enjoy austerity you dummy,

Ciao.

[trish]

I answered dippy. Google the 4 trillion and that get you the details your after. Raise tax levels to those prevalent in the Reagan and Clinton years. After those decades we had a ten year surplus which your man W blew away single handedly.

[BluegrassCat]

I once heard a line about debating with fundamentalists and I think it applies pretty well to Dippy.
Arguing with Dippy is about as productive as playing chess with a pigeon: it knocks over the pieces, shits on the board and then flies back to its perch to declare victory.

[robertlouis]

This debate has so far been focused pretty well exclusively on what might happen in the US.

I wonder if the proud representatives of the GOP have considered that if the US were to default, or if there was a major run on the dollar, it could all too easily tip the fragile economic recovery of the entire global financial system over the edge and back into a worse recession than we've just been though?

And before you come back with the usual fuck the rest of you stuff, just consider this. If it does happen, the Republicans will be handing financial and political hegemony on a plate to the Chinese. Forever. You will never be the world's superpower again.

Hooray, we fucked Obama. Yep, and you fucked yourselves as well.

[nonnonnon]

I'll embrace our new chinese overlords.
I'll miss google, though

[russtafa]

Maybe if America gets rid of it's free trade policy and builds up it's own industries and penalises imports things might improve

[Faldur]

I wonder if the proud representatives of the GOP have considered that if the US were to default, or if there was a major run on the dollar, it could all too easily tip the fragile economic recovery of the entire global financial system over the edge and back into a worse recession than we've just been though?

If we could get one point straight it would be helpful. This is not a "GOP" issue, the majority of the leadership behind spending reduction is Tea Party. The limp wrist'ed GOP is loosing power on a daily basis. We finally have an elected set of individuals that are actually doing what they promised in the election.

And the US will not default on any of its obligations, that is as long as its president does not allow it. But that is his decision alone, he has far enough revenue to pay all of our outstanding debts/services. What he will not have is our hard earned money to give away in social spending, and a continued bloated government. If you do not like that fact, for God's sake get your ass out and vote. (Or if you happen to be abroad.. with all due respect.. STFU)

Once again lets look at the fine example of Indiana, and the progressives are silent.. hmmm (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hoosiers-show-how-its-done-indiana-posts-a-surplus-and-dems-are-unhappy/)

[Faldur]

Yea, never let the facts get in the way of hyperbole you useless waste of oxygen.

You sir, are a breath of fresh air..:Bowdown:

[Faldur]

And the "idiot-ology", (to steal a quote from Trish), continues. If the US defaults on anything it will be a direct result of this presidents CHOICE. There is more than enough revenue, (read tax income), to cover all of the US critical payments.

But of coarse we are all too STUPID to understand this...

Really? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoDvkhnNdXo&feature=player_embedded#at=276)

[Faldur]

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIix40JJSGo&feature=player_embedded#at=56)

[trish]

So if you can't destroy America with your inane fiscal policy, then you advocate open revolt. How patriotic of you...not. Extremist...yes. You do know that 75% of the people in your own party want to see a tax hike as well as spending cutbacks?

[Faldur]

And the silence is deafening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA)

[trish]

GOP deadbeats don't want to pay their bills. They bought a decade long tax break for the wealthy, two wars and deregulation all the while borrowing from China. Now that the bills are due, they're suddenly like, "I'm not paying for that!"

[Stavros]

I recently said that having dug yourselves into a hole, it would be best to stop digging; but that it is a hole, not a grave.

In order to stop it, and in order to begin rebuilding your economic base, your Congress needs to re-discover the benefits of a partisan approach to what is not -as Altman and Haas put it -a 'theological issue', but the practical economics without which you run the risk of decay from within and attack from outside.

At the moment, with the Euro in turmoil, the US $ remains the international currency of choice; in spite of its current depression, investors continue to perceive the US economy as a long-term investment option; in spite of the absence of job creation at the lower/unskilled levels, investors and others continue to see the US as a factory of wealth-creating ideas that can translate into hard-ware, soft-ware and indeed, anywhere.

Culturally, the US is a major global parent, teacher and pupil through films, tv, journalism, books, cartoons, computer games -you name it, the US is there.

Politically, the US has lost some of its role as 'honest broker' in conflict resolution, but the US is trusted more than China and Russia, and probably more than either the UK and France; and it is a role that wise leadership can recover.

In fact, the weakest link in all this is right where you are: in the USA -at some point, taxes must rise, and budgets must be cut: there are no alternatives to this. The budgets for the military, homeland security, and so on -as debated before- can all be cut without endangering the fundamental role of Federal government: security.

This is what Altman and Haas say on taxes:

Unfortunately, the politics of tax policy have become deeply partisan in the United States, where tax increases are now debated in theological terms. In historical terms, this is odd, since federal income-tax rates were consistently higher throughout the twentieth century than they are now. During the 1960s, for example, the top bracket was nearly twice today’s level. That said, there is no reason that tax increases should come about through income taxes alone; there are many other options, including introducing a value-added tax, adjusting business and investment-related taxes, restoring an estate tax, and reducing certain exemptions.

Some creative thinking and you can raise taxes, as you must -and cut bloated departmental budgets, as you must; and get some pragmatic policy-making back into operation, as you must.

This situation is beyond Obama -vs- Fanatics or whichever language and symbolism you want to use to describe the cat fight currently in progress. The history is fascinating, but right now, the hole is getting deeper, the options of rescue getting smaller -the last time I looked, the US did not resemble either Greece or Ireland, nor do I want it to -as I have also said before, it beggars belief that with all its talent and expertise, the USA can be subject to the whims of ideology when what it needs is that old-fashioned 'Can Do' America to restore the balance of sanity to public policy.

Ref:
http://1431731ontario.net/Current/Articles/AmericanProfligacyAndAmericanPower_TheConsequences OfFiscalIrresponsibility.pdf

[Faldur]

GOP deadbeats

Please, can we get it right... its the Tea Party deadbeats, the GOP is dead.

[trish]

From the left...

http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/exclusive-former-president-bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-constitutional-option-raise-debt

From the right...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/opinion/19brooks.html

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148472/De...Tax-Hikes.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/148472/Deficit-Americans-Prefer-Spending-Cuts-Open-Tax-Hikes.aspx)

[Ben]

The Republican Party (if they're even a political party anymore) and the Democratic Party are simply two sides of the same Business Party.
And can someone please define so-called conservatism. (And not what conservatism was 100 years ago. Ya know, those types of conservatives don't exist anymore. They stood for morality, traditional values and the rule of law. So: what's conservative???????
I mean, a liberal is pretty straightforward. They FOOLISHLY believe that personal change will change the world. Which is absolute hogwash. Personal change does not change the world. Liberalism - is - not - of - the - left.
Members of the left want institutional and systemic change. Liberals do not want that. They simply think and believe personal change brings about overall societal change.)

Paul Craig Roberts: We have a republican party that is a Gestapo party - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMDX2iuHyI)

[Ben]

Rep. Allen West - "Obama, Reid, Pelosi, get the hell out of the USA" - 28 January 2012 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8YDnd1Yoyk)

'Get The Hell Out' Of The U.S. - Rep. West Grilled For Comments - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktK-vVOcE8)

[Ben]

The Five Spar over Rep. Allen West's Fiery Speech... - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQCMd1PxlsI)

[Faldur]

http://www.imore.com/images/stories/2009/03/kevin_rose_iphone_30_cut_and_paste.jpg

[onmyknees]

GOP deadbeats don't want to pay their bills. They bought a decade long tax break for the wealthy, two wars and deregulation all the while borrowing from China. Now that the bills are due, they're suddenly like, "I'm not paying for that!"



Right....but you left off the prescription drug benefit. Those heartless fucking Republicans helping the old and sick with affordable medication.

You know full well there isn't an economist in the country ( well...with the exception of madman Krugman) who wouldn't trade the Bush debt for what we have now. Bush was a mere piker compared to this guy. But you knew that, because it's factual and provable by multiple government agencies like the GAO and the CBO....you just chose the easy path.....parrot the party line..."It's Bush's fault" . I had hoped for better, but you disappoint yet again:dancing:

[trish]

That's Nobel prize winning economist Krugman to you. Private job grow had positive acceleration since Obama took office, millions more Americans now have health coverage, our auto industry has been pulled out of Bush's toilet, we're finally out of Iraq etc. No, you'd be crazy to retreat to the Bush years...we'd just have another recession again and spend more off budget billions on war.

[Prospero]

Informed rumour is that whether its Obama or Mitney or that reptile Newt you may be spending a lot of a forthcoming war anyway. Highups in mid east expect a rain of israeli and US bombs on iran before the summer. Groan.....

[trish]

....(continuing the)...grrrrrrrrroooooooooaaaaaannnn. Austerity measures are pushing Europe into a downward spiral as well. Too bad Iraq is no longer a formidable check on Iran. Whatever happened to that Saddam guy??

[Prospero]

Oh, he was collateral damage in Mr Bush's little wargame.

[Prospero]

...Cos we all know that Iraq was behind Pearl Harbour.

[trish]

...Cos we all know that Iraq was behind Pearl Harbour.Damn those filthy Shinto ragheads pushing their Sharia oil.

[Prospero]

Is sushi halal?

[trish]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=11642&act=view

[Prospero]

Thanks for that...lol..... shellfish certainly wouldn't be that's for sure - so prawn tempura is out.

[trish]

So let's just go with some california roll, some yellow tail, some makki, salmon and unagi. Anything else? (she says smiling across the table, her face lit by the flickering candle between them). Maybe a Sapporo with that?

[Odelay]

I get a kick out of eating at a quick chinese food takeout joint for lunch at least once a week because they post that their food is prepared halal. I can only imagine that that really burns up some of the midwestern rednecks who live around here.

[Ben]

Victoria Jackson for Prez:

CPAC 2012: Victoria Jackson - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZdTpPAXEo)

Victoria Jackson is CRAZY (about America) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82SQGI68DMw)

[Ben]

The Day In 100 Seconds: CPAC Day Three - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz8ZfrRGFsU)