economic refugees

[russtafa]

Do you think its alright that people claim refugee status and say it's thru persecution but it's really because the country has a strong social welfare system and lots of support programs designed for its citizens.It then may clog up the hospital system,public housing system and generally increase the strain on the welfare system

[russtafa]

i expect to be lynched over this topic lol

[nonnonnon]

I think he's talking about Sydney

[joeninety]

I decided to leave the crucifix at home, and shall only say what will be, will be....

[trish]

If it's true that Sydney's "support systems" are designed for citizens alone, then non-citizens can't claim the benefits, right? So how can it be that non-citizens are a strain on those systems?

On the other hand, if Sydney's "support systems" are designed to be more inclusive, then it's not unfair for non-citizens (who meet the requirements) to expect help.

It seems you believe that Australian officials are being hoodwinked by immigrants who claim to be refugees of political or religious persecution when in fact they aren't. Why do you think your own countrymen are so easily snowed?

BTW. Just how good are your "support systems?" Transgenders aren't always very welcome here in the U.S. Maybe I'll go to Australia and scarf up on all those delicious economic benefits that, according to you, the refugees there seem to enjoy. It should be easy for me to convince your officials that I'm being persecuted here, right?

Put another shrimp on the Bar-B for me mate.

[joeninety]

Put another shrimp on the Bar-B for me mate.

Pmsl G-Day mate make that 2 shrimp instead sport:party:

[onmyknees]

Do you think its alright that people claim refugee status and say it's thru persecution but it's really because the country has a strong social welfare system and lots of support programs designed for its citizens.It then may clog up the hospital system,public housing system and generally increase the strain on the welfare system

give us a little more info russta...are you referring to your country?
Growing tired of the influx of those seeking "political asylum" ?

[russtafa]

yes it is my country where there is a lot of controversy because these illegal boat people stop the genuine refugees from getting here and they are causing trouble[riots] when they arrive

[natina]

8 out of the 12 baby's born in the USA or born to illegal

laws now or focusing on having no automatic citizen ship for kids born to parents of illegals

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/anchor_babies.html



http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/should-anchor-babies-be-allowed-citizenship/question-1062069/

http://www.americanpatrol.com/09-FEATURES/090930-FEATURE/LA-POPULATION4.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/09-FEATURES/090930-FEATURE/LA-POPULATION4.jpg


County’s Monthly Welfare Tab for Illegal Aliens $52 Million/month

As the mainstream media focuses on a study that reveals a sharp decline in the nation’s illegal immigrant population, monthly welfare payments to children of undocumented aliens increased to $52 million in one U.S. county alone.

The hoopla surrounding last week’s news that the annual flow of illegal immigrants into the U.S. dropped by two-thirds in the past decade overlooked an important matter; the cost of educating, incarcerating and medically treating illegal aliens hasn’t decreased along with it, but rather skyrocketed to the tune of tens of billions of dollars annually.

Those figures don’t even include the extra millions that local municipalities dish out on welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants, commonly known as anchor babies. In Los Angeles County alone that figure increased by nearly $4 million in the last year, sticking taxpayers with a whopping $52 million tab to provide illegal immigrants’ offspring with food stamps and other welfare benefits for just one month.


About a quarter of the county’s welfare and food stamp issuances go to parents who reside in the United States illegally and collect benefits for their anchor babies, according to the figures from L.A. County’s Department of Social Services. Nationwide, Americans pay around $22 billion annually to provide illegal immigrants with welfare perks that include food assistance programs such as free school lunches in public schools, food stamps and a nutritional program (known as WIC) for low-income women and their children



http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/09/07/countys-monthly-welfare-tab-for-illegal-aliens-52-million/


Hispanics "accounted for more than one-half of all US population growth."

America's going non-white! It's been long reported that the U.S. is projected to be minority-majority by 2042. Now researchers from Cornell and the University of New Hampshire say, "for America's children and youth, that future is here already": In the Census year that ended in July of 2008, 48 percent of the children born in the U.S.A. were from minority-group parents.
The growth is mainly among Hispanic parents. Between 2000 and 2008, says the report by Professors Kenneth Johnson and Daniel Lichter, Hispanics "accounted for more than one-half of all US population growth."

Also, while the nation's African-American population is still "concentrated disproportionately in the largest and oldest US central cities," Hispanics are spreading to the hinterlands; the report says the Hispanic population "is dispersing rapidly -- though selectively -- from traditional gateway cities in the Southwest," not only to surrounding suburbs, but also "rapidly in many rural parts of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, North Carolina, and Georgia."

Professors Johnson and Lichter suggest the growth is due to an influx of fertile Hispanic women. They're having an average of 2.99 babies apiece, while white women are having 1.87.

Please show this report to an old bigot near you. Then play 'em some Black Flag!




http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/03/hispanic_kids_4.php




http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archi

[Stavros]

Do you really think that a fit 25 year old wakes up one day and thinks to himself, what shall I do today? I know, sell everything I own and take out a loan from a dodgy geezer, to pay another dodgy geezer $5,000 to sit in a barely-seaworthy boat and drift a thousand miles with a bottle of water and a cheese sandwich, over shark-infested waters with a 75% chance of being eaten alive, just to start a new life in Australia...? Yes, I know there have been cases of 'refugees' being washed up on shore clean shaven, in freshly ironed shirts...but most are desperate. I know too that a lot are not genuine refugees, but to put your life on the line like that is hardly part of a cynical plot.

Australia advertises itself as God's Country; sun-kissed beaches; the Blue Mountains; Sports, Sex and Sydney; Koalas and Kangaroos..I guess it doesn't advertise forest fires, floods, clouds of black flies, venomous spiders, crime syndicates, and all the other perils of modern life. The assumption, still, is that Australia is under-populated and overflowing with opportunities to work, and that if you keep your nose clean you can do well, just like America. Is it their fault if the government doesn't have an efficient and fair system for sorting out the people in need from the people on the take? Most often, be it Australia or the UK, the system is what needs reforming, not the immigrants...if you wake up tomorrow and find yourself an ambitious 25 year old in Mogadishu, what are your options?

[russtafa]

our immigrants are mostly muslim so you can double that population

[natina]

ANCHOR BABIES

is the term used



Children born to non-US citizens could be barred from American birth certificates

One of the politicians behind Arizona's controversial immigration law has called for children born to non-US citizens to be barred from getting American birth certificates.


Under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution any child born in the country has an automatic right to citizenship regardless of their parents' legal status.

But Republican State Senator Russell Pearce will introduce a bill later this year to target so-called "anchor babies," which he says are used by illegal immigrants to stay in the country.

When they become adults the children can sponsor their parents for legal permanent residency.

An estimated four million children became US citizens after being born to illegal immigrant parents on US soil in 2008.

Arizona is already facing a boycott by other US states and cities following its introduction of a law that requires police to determine a person's immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion" they are undocumented.

Senator Pearce, who sponsored that law, said the fact babies born to illegal immigrant parents become US citizens was "the most irrational and self-defeating provision you could have."
He said those who had written the 14th Amendment in 1868 had never anticipated the "deluge" that would come.
"I want to bring a little common sense and integrity back," he said.
"It's illegal to enter the United States and yet we are going to create the greatest inducement to breaking our law, and entering illegally, and that's making your baby a citizen."
Opponents of the proposed bill say it is contrary to the Constitution and the American spirit.
The right of Arizona to attempt to deny US citizenship could ultimately end up in the US Supreme Court.
The 14th Amendment was drafted in order to secure the citizenship and Constitutional rights of freed slaves and their children.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7827706/Children-born-to-non-US-citizens-could-be-barred-from-American-birth-certificates.html

8 out of the 12 baby's born in the USA or born to illegal

laws now or focusing on having no automatic citizen ship for kids born to parents of illegals

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/anchor_babies.html



http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/should-anchor-babies-be-allowed-citizenship/question-1062069/

http://www.americanpatrol.com/09-FEATURES/090930-FEATURE/LA-POPULATION4.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/09-FEATURES/090930-FEATURE/LA-POPULATION4.jpg


County’s Monthly Welfare Tab for Illegal Aliens $52 Million/month

As the mainstream media focuses on a study that reveals a sharp decline in the nation’s illegal immigrant population, monthly welfare payments to children of undocumented aliens increased to $52 million in one U.S. county alone.

The hoopla surrounding last week’s news that the annual flow of illegal immigrants into the U.S. dropped by two-thirds in the past decade overlooked an important matter; the cost of educating, incarcerating and medically treating illegal aliens hasn’t decreased along with it, but rather skyrocketed to the tune of tens of billions of dollars annually.

Those figures don’t even include the extra millions that local municipalities dish out on welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants, commonly known as anchor babies. In Los Angeles County alone that figure increased by nearly $4 million in the last year, sticking taxpayers with a whopping $52 million tab to provide illegal immigrants’ offspring with food stamps and other welfare benefits for just one month.


About a quarter of the county’s welfare and food stamp issuances go to parents who reside in the United States illegally and collect benefits for their anchor babies, according to the figures from L.A. County’s Department of Social Services. Nationwide, Americans pay around $22 billion annually to provide illegal immigrants with welfare perks that include food assistance programs such as free school lunches in public schools, food stamps and a nutritional program (known as WIC) for low-income women and their children



http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/09/07/countys-monthly-welfare-tab-for-illegal-aliens-52-million/


Hispanics "accounted for more than one-half of all US population growth."

America's going non-white! It's been long reported that the U.S. is projected to be minority-majority by 2042. Now researchers from Cornell and the University of New Hampshire say, "for America's children and youth, that future is here already": In the Census year that ended in July of 2008, 48 percent of the children born in the U.S.A. were from minority-group parents.
The growth is mainly among Hispanic parents. Between 2000 and 2008, says the report by Professors Kenneth Johnson and Daniel Lichter, Hispanics "accounted for more than one-half of all US population growth."

Also, while the nation's African-American population is still "concentrated disproportionately in the largest and oldest US central cities," Hispanics are spreading to the hinterlands; the report says the Hispanic population "is dispersing rapidly -- though selectively -- from traditional gateway cities in the Southwest," not only to surrounding suburbs, but also "rapidly in many rural parts of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, North Carolina, and Georgia."

Professors Johnson and Lichter suggest the growth is due to an influx of fertile Hispanic women. They're having an average of 2.99 babies apiece, while white women are having 1.87.

Please show this report to an old bigot near you. Then play 'em some Black Flag!




http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/03/hispanic_kids_4.php




http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archi

[joeninety]

Do you really think that a fit 25 year old wakes up one day and thinks to himself, what shall I do today? I know, sell everything I own and take out a loan from a dodgy geezer, to pay another dodgy geezer $5,000 to sit in a barely-seaworthy boat and drift a thousand miles with a bottle of water and a cheese sandwich, over shark-infested waters with a 75% chance of being eaten alive, just to start a new life in Australia...? Yes, I know there have been cases of 'refugees' being washed up on shore clean shaven, in freshly ironed shirts...but most are desperate. I know too that a lot are not genuine refugees, but to put your life on the line like that is hardly part of a cynical plot.

Australia advertises itself as God's Country; sun-kissed beaches; the Blue Mountains; Sports, Sex and Sydney; Koalas and Kangaroos..I guess it doesn't advertise forest fires, floods, clouds of black flies, venomous spiders, crime syndicates, and all the other perils of modern life. The assumption, still, is that Australia is under-populated and overflowing with opportunities to work, and that if you keep your nose clean you can do well, just like America. Is it their fault if the government doesn't have an efficient and fair system for sorting out the people in need from the people on the take? Most often, be it Australia or the UK, the system is what needs reforming, not the immigrants...if you wake up tomorrow and find yourself an ambitious 25 year old in Mogadishu, what are your options?


Here Here good speech and don't forget to remind Russ if he is going on in that manner, that he wants to remember it is not his country per se it belongs to abo and his mates, who kindly had it stolen off them by Russ and his mates, so karma is a bitch and she says what goes around will come around, so get used to the feeling of having yours taken even though it is not yours in the first place...........................

[russtafa]

of course it's ours it was not inhabited before us,there were no buildings or farms before us

[hippifried]

of course it's ours it was not inhabited before us,there were no buildings or farms before us
I guess it's not enough to make a claim that the native population never learned to grow food. Now they never existed.

The whole gripe about immigration is a fear that the new people will act like the ones doing the griping. Not everybody thinks that immorality is natural.

[joeninety]

of course it's ours it was not inhabited before us,there were no buildings or farms before us


Oh ok going by that logic i think i'll have to come over there and start making claims to some large pieces of the outback, like maybe ayers rock, i mean there are no inhabitants there, or farm buildings etc so it should be mine to claim then so long as i build on it quickly and fill it with people is that correct:confused:

[joeninety]

I guess it's not enough to make a claim that the native population never learned to grow food. Now they never existed.

The whole gripe about immigration is a fear that the new people will act like the ones doing the griping. Not everybody thinks that immorality is natural.

Of course it is its an inherent fear that the new native conquerers are too ignorant (without wanting to sound derogatory) to consciously realise, its the fear that there culture and ways will be wiped out like they never existed and yet Russ still fails to recognise what has happened to the Abo's which would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Hey Russ instead of being ignorant why not try thinking what might be through assimilation how as a culture you could well grow, negativity and hostility only breeds such, try loving thy neighbour because the last time i checked no-one truly owns any land as a god given because it was/is no ones birthright to do so, the land should be there for everyone as mother nature intended it

[russtafa]

this land of Australia was developed by very hard working Australians who then had to save Englands ass in ww1,ww2 and received no thanks for the sacrifice but we have to expect that from ingrates.Australia is there for Australians not for trespassers and it is every Australians duty to defend it

[robertlouis]

this land of Australia was developed by very hard working Australians who then had to save Englands ass in ww1,ww2 and received no thanks for the sacrifice but we have to expect that from ingrates.Australia is there for Australians not for trespassers and it is every Australians duty to defend it

I agree that the Empire took the sacrifice of Dominion troops pretty much for granted in both world wars, although the Japanese did pose a real threat to Australian sovereignity once they landed on New Guinea, but in the context of immigration it isn't, with all due respect, relevant.

The fact is that the British in Australia and the Americans in the US in the nineteenth century certainly and arguably into the 20th century too committed unspeakable atrocities, verging on genocide of their native peoples (how else can you objectively describe the extermination of all native Tasmanians by the 1870s?).

If you're still thinking in terms of white Australia, which was essentially the immigration policy till the 1960's, you won't turn the clock back now. Whenever I've visited Australia, I've found it to be a vibrant, cosmopolitan culture and a fabulous melting pot. Granted, a month or so's stay every few years, staying with family or touring and playing gigs up and down the eastern seaboard, isn't the same as being there all the time, but it does describe the feeling I've got every visit.

So while I agree that it is every Australian's right to defend their country's sovereignity, does that right in your mind include or exclude the aboriginal, original human inhabitants of the land?

[russtafa]

what other human inhabitants .Australia always welcomes hard working people to it's shores from ,asia,europe,africa,south america

[hippifried]

what other human inhabitants .Australia always welcomes hard working people to it's shores from ,asia,europe,africa,south america
See? Never existed. Apparently, the atrocities never happened either, because the native aboriginals weren't/aren't human. Gee, what a shock it must be to the geneticists & anthropologists who figured out that they're caucasian.

I should be surprized at this attitude in this day & age, but I'm not. I see it too often. I don't think it's so much a belief in one's superiority as a fear of not being superior. Hostility is usually a reactionary product of fear. It's all over the world. A fear of anything different or changes in the current status quo. It's been going on forever. The fears are always unfounded & the rhetoric is always the same. If a "culture" is so fragile that it can't handle immigrant waves, why is it worth defending?




If you're still thinking in terms of white Australia, which was essentially the immigration policy till the 1960's, you won't turn the clock back now.
I checked out emigrating to Australia in 1970. That was still the policy. If memory serves, I believe it was 1974 when the official end of the policy happened. It takes a lot longer to change the attitudes, after the official policies change.

[russtafa]

Australia always welcomes legal immigrants to build this great country of ours

[joeninety]

See? Never existed. Apparently, the atrocities never happened either, because the native aboriginals weren't/aren't human. Gee, what a shock it must be to the geneticists & anthropologists who figured out that they're caucasian.

I should be surprized at this attitude in this day & age, but I'm not. I see it too often. I don't think it's so much a belief in one's superiority as a fear of not being superior. Hostility is usually a reactionary product of fear. It's all over the world. A fear of anything different or changes in the current status quo. It's been going on forever. The fears are always unfounded & the rhetoric is always the same. If a "culture" is so fragile that it can't handle immigrant waves, why is it worth defending?


I checked out emigrating to Australia in 1970. That was still the policy. If memory serves, I believe it was 1974 when the official end of the policy happened. It takes a lot longer to change the attitudes, after the official policies change.

Forget it all this talk is wasted on species ignoramus it will simply fly over his head and will not register in his pea brain......................

[muh_muh]

this land of Australia was developed by very hard working Australians

huh and here i was thinking it was actually a bunch of british fellons and prostitutes

[russtafa]

no it was developed by Italians,Greeks, and other Europeans after world war2

[joeninety]

this land of Australia was developed by very hard working Australians who then had to save Englands ass in ww1,ww2 and received no thanks for the sacrifice but we have to expect that from ingrates.Australia is there for Australians not for trespassers and it is every Australians duty to defend it

As if what you said here wasn't funny enough already as without the Brits fighting you'd of been toast and not the other way round you then say Australia is for Aussies and was developed by hard working Aussies. Hmmm lets look at your quote below.


no it was developed by Italians,Greeks, and other Europeans after world war2

Lmao pmsl lol wtf so Australia was actually developed by guess what Russ no shit Sherlock, yep that is correct it was developed by immigrants are you really that fucking stupid wtf:confused: or is it cos they're white so they are not really immigrants in your mind, and in your world are you colour blind (cos supposedly abo and his mates don't exist) get it actually don't answer that i think your posts say enough...............

[russtafa]

yes legal immigrants that were invited and work hard not like the current lot that go straight on welfare and are a burden on the tax payer.the left do not seem to care that the worker has to foot the bill as usual as with so many other left wing ideas the government takes up.no wonder the labour/green government's popularity has crashed especially in working class areas.I would say that most workers think that the government is out to ruin them with these moronic schemes of theirs.the only areas that the government is popular are in the trendy inner city or areas around university's where the rich send their children

[onmyknees]

I guess it's not enough to make a claim that the native population never learned to grow food. Now they never existed.

The whole gripe about immigration is a fear that the new people will act like the ones doing the griping. Not everybody thinks that immorality is natural.


"The whole gripe about immigration is a fear that the new people will act like the ones doing the griping."

WTF are you talking about? I'm sure it's straight in your lopsided frontal lobe, but the rest of us are left perplexed.
Let's be clear......since you have the same habit of omitting words as most in the media do. Not many people I know, are griping about immigration. It's healthy for any society.....what we're griping about is ILLEGAL immigration. Get it?

[hippifried]

I didn't omit any words. I said exactly what I was trying to say. All this childish whining about "illegal" immigrants is just the latest excuse for being an asshole. It's bullshit. The rhetoric is exactly the same as it was 100 or 150 years ago. Suddenly all immigrants, or even those just passing through, are criminals if they didn't get prior prmission to move freely? Pffffft!

Oh & while you're at it, why don't you give us one of your famous lectures on the overreach of government.

[russtafa]

No its my country hippie not yours and i will defend it if i have to you can give your house/land away if you want and i couldn't care less but what's mine is mine thanks.A GOOD HIPPIE WILL ALWAYS ROLL OVER AND PLAY DEAD

[robertlouis]

No its my country hippie not yours and i will defend it if i have to you can give your house/land away if you want and i couldn't care less but what's mine is mine thanks.A GOOD HIPPIE WILL ALWAYS ROLL OVER AND PLAY DEAD

And is it the aboriginal peoples' country too?

[russtafa]

If they pay taxes

[hippifried]

Defend it against what? You mean like y'all did against those semi-swarthy greeks & Italians who ended up developing Australia into what it is? I guess that turned out better than all that inbreeding.

[russtafa]

I thought a hippie was the result of inbreeding

[hippifried]

Nah. We're all about free love, remember? Hippies were an anarchist movement. It's all about freedom from social strictures.

[russtafa]

Like washing,working

[hippifried]

No. Like interfering with other people's lives by trying to control how they work or think. For all your lip service to individuality, you clowns are just automatons. I've already heard all the stupid stereotypes. It just tells me you don't know anything.

[russtafa]

No. Like interfering with other people's lives by trying to control how they work or think. For all your lip service to individuality, you clowns are just automatons. I've already heard all the stupid stereotypes. It just tells me you don't know anything. sounds like communism to me hippie but that's what you lot are about

[Faldur]

Russ the "entitled" soles of the board will never listen to your point. You were on the outs the minute you insinuated that people should pull their own way rather than receive a free ride. Your a good thinker, hang in there..

[joeninety]

Russ the "entitled" soles of the board will never listen to your point. You were on the outs the minute you insinuated that people should pull their own way rather than receive a free ride. Your a good thinker, hang in there..


Piss off is Russ a good thinker, he thinks the abo's didn't exist and he thinks Australia was built by errrmm Australians wtf yeah hang in there Russ so we can hear some more of your lameness.

[joeninety]

sounds like communism to me hippie but that's what you lot are about


More references to your stupity, you seem to love Capitalism without actually understanding what it is, being as you are at the lower end of your pile in society wouldn't you actually be better off living in a truely communist state where all are paid equally, and there are no rich for you to bitch about as you love to do, and equally there are no poor, everyone pulls together for the greater good

More examples of your lameness..................

[joeninety]

If they pay taxes

Why the fuck should the aborigines pay taxes they were in that country first you really are a retard, so then i guess going by your logic if you get overwhelmed by a stronger group then that is totally fair and justified:confused:

[joeninety]

"The whole gripe about immigration is a fear that the new people will act like the ones doing the griping."

WTF are you talking about? I'm sure it's straight in your lopsided frontal lobe, but the rest of us are left perplexed.
Let's be clear......since you have the same habit of omitting words as most in the media do. Not many people I know, are griping about immigration. It's healthy for any society.....what we're griping about is ILLEGAL immigration. Get it?

Bullshit there only seems to be a problem with illegal immigration when those greedy capitalists up top screw things up and expect us to pay for it, so that they can continue to line there pockets some more.

I mean when things are ticking over nicely no mention of the illegal gangmaster and his crews of cheap labour as in effect they are good for the economy, but when a scapegoat is needed which group is the easiest to target and really what bearing does a handful of illegals have on the total collaspe of our economies, wake up, i think you'll find the rich are to blame for that rather than the poor and you lot fall for it hook line and sinker.

[joeninety]

Killer quotes prize goes to you Russ for these two contradictory gems below btw have you made your mind up as to whether it was immigrants or Australians who developed Australia:Bowdown:;


Originally Posted by russtafa
this land of Australia was developed by very hard working Australians

Originally Posted by russtafa
no it was developed by Italians,Greeks, and other Europeans after world war2

[muh_muh]

sounds like communism to me hippie but that's what you lot are about

you might want to look up what communism actually means

[joeninety]

you might want to look up what communism actually means

Forget it Russ is still stuck on the question of whether immigrants built Australia or not, the dude is back and forth like a fucking yoyo don't confuse him with another complex question for fricks sake:yingyang:

[hippifried]

sounds like communism to me hippie but that's what you lot are about
That doesn't work either. You don't know what you're talking about.

[russtafa]

wow you and joe0 have been busy hippie .not happy when some one does not agree with your left wing fantasy.so we the tax payer owe these bludgers a living,how about junkies and criminals that cant get a job or left wing bludgers that wont work because these are all your mates

[robertlouis]

wow you and joe0 have been busy hippie .not happy when some one does not agree with your left wing fantasy.so we the tax payer owe these bludgers a living,how about junkies and criminals that cant get a job or left wing bludgers that wont work because these are all your mates

Sober up before you post, mate, because if that's how you really think and represent yourself.....

So glad you weren't in Germany in the early 30s.

[russtafa]

why didn't they pay taxes?

[Stavros]

I am no expert in the first nations of Australia, but it seems to me that their culture is so different from the immigrant culture of the Europeans who created the modern state, that expectations of 'integration' were never going to be fruitful. If anything, the two seem to have a negative impact on each other -one falls victim to the worst excesses of modern life, drug and alcohol abuse; the other thinks of first nations as savages and treats them accordingly. First nations have so radically different a concept of time, they can't see working from 9 to 5 as a logical way to spend the day; most white Australians can't see the point of dozing under a jacaranda tree for seven hours, and then spend a month walking barefoot through the outback to visit an ancestor who lives in a rock that sings its history through the fissures of the earth...Australia is big enough, let the two go their own way...

[russtafa]

:(Yes i think you are right.in the prison system most races stay with the whites,islanders,asians,maories. The lebos and abos keep together.This will greatly upset the bleeding hearts-SORRY

[hippifried]

wow you and joe0 have been busy hippie .not happy when some one does not agree with your left wing fantasy.so we the tax payer owe these bludgers a living,how about junkies and criminals that cant get a job or left wing bludgers that wont work because these are all your mates
Red baiting is so passe, that when you try it you're just talking to yourself. Same with all the lame attempts at trying to evoke stereotypes that don't exist outside of your little clique of fanatics. So you keep making my point that you don't know what you're talking about.




I am no expert in the first nations of Australia, but it seems to me that their culture is so different from the immigrant culture of the Europeans who created the modern state, that expectations of 'integration' were never going to be fruitful. If anything, the two seem to have a negative impact on each other -one falls victim to the worst excesses of modern life, drug and alcohol abuse; the other thinks of first nations as savages and treats them accordingly. First nations have so radically different a concept of time, they can't see working from 9 to 5 as a logical way to spend the day; most white Australians can't see the point of dozing under a jacaranda tree for seven hours, and then spend a month walking barefoot through the outback to visit an ancestor who lives in a rock that sings its history through the fissures of the earth...Australia is big enough, let the two go their own way...
Culture's overrated. It's totally fluid if allowed to be. The problem isn't differences. It's the refusal to look past them to see the similarities. There was never any expectation of "integration", because there was never an intention to see these people as human beings. The attitude is always that "we can't learn anything from them because they're not technologically advanced". Really? Who invented the air foil? They've been in Australia for 50,000 years, & when Europeans showed up, warfare was an alien concept to them. It's not just there. It's everywhere Europeans went that didn't have guns or immunities to certain diseases. Africa, parts of Asia, the Pacific, & all through the Americas. It's hard not to wonder how much we retarded our own social growth by not opening up trade instead of just kicking them aside to take whatever we wanted. Even people with no concept of private property understand when they're being ripped off.

I fail to see why it's so necessary for everybody to be in lockstep with perceptions. If there's no need to live minute by minute, why bother? Who says everybody should be living on a factory schedule? As for napping in the afternoon: All hot weather & especially desert cultures siesta during high heat. They're not the ones who pass out from heat exhaustion or stroke. Just sayin'. There's always something to learn if you're willing to admit you don't have all the answers.

As for going separate ways: I don't think so. What? Segregation worked so well the first time that it'll work again? It's their country too. Exclusion causes more problems than it can ever possibly solve.

[Stavros]

Culture's overrated. It's totally fluid if allowed to be. The problem isn't differences. It's the refusal to look past them to see the similarities.

I understand your point, Hippifried, but I am going to disagree -Levi-Strauss argued for a structural affinity between humans, based on language, concepts of kinship, rituals in birth death and marriage, and so on: yet it precisely culture that separates, although modern communications do mean that, for example, pop music might appeal across cultura boundaries. But culture is difference: the fact that some people eat with their right hand, with chopsticks, or knives and forks; the spatial differences that shape the Islamic city and distinguish it from a non-Islamic city (there was a lot of debate on this in the early 1980s), the difference in music between, say Indonesia and France, and as I tried to argue, the radical differences in the concept of time among sedentary people like us, and predominantly nomadic people although I am not sure if Australia's first nations are considered nomads. I also think this is what makes culture so interesting, but it does return to us to the issue -have 'we' destroyed Australia's first nations culture? Have we given them the means to self-destruct -or does it jut change, adapt to a changing reality much as the woad-daubed inhabitants of England learned from numerous invaders how to keep warm in winter -by wearing clothes...

[joeninety]

:(Yes i think you are right.in the prison system most races stay with the whites,islanders,asians,maories. The lebos and abos keep together.This will greatly upset the bleeding hearts-SORRY

Russ the aboringines might actually to be able to teach vaulable concepts ascribed to time but you are too nauseatingly primitive to talk to about such things:yayo::yayo:, so i shall leave you too your lack of understanding and contradictory ways because i can now see you do not even have a clue as to where you are coming from:tongue:, i guess from your perspective its that old adage that ignorance is bliss:confused:, good luck with that you pin head neanderthal:pumped:

[russtafa]

joe you have not been arrested yet for starting fights out side of night clubs?with your big mouth you would be great at starting riots,every thing has to end with an insult for you.in Australia you would not get far with that attitude ,people don't like pomes with big mouths

[joeninety]

joe you have not been arrested yet for starting fights out side of night clubs?with your big mouth you would be great at starting riots,every thing has to end with an insult for you.in Australia you would not get far with that attitude ,people don't like pomes with big mouths


Do i look like i give a fuck:nervous: and shut up retard:ignore:

[russtafa]

:dancing:oooh joe so sorry did i upset you

[joeninety]

:dancing:oooh joe so sorry did i upset you

Not at all:yayo: you've had me in stitches:party: because you are that dumb you fail to understand my rhetoric:confused: keep going window licker:tongue: i'll come and mop up your dribble when i've finished playing with:actionsmiley lmao..................

[russtafa]

Wow very constructive[window licker] joe.always call some one names if you don't agree with them,you so clever is that what you have learnt out side the night clubs and bashing passers by

[Stavros]

calm down boys and girls...stay on message...which reminds me to ask you Russtafa, are there designated tv/ts clubs in Sydney or do they appear and disappear like they do in other places? They always have about one or two bouncers at the WayOut in London but I don't think they need them as its a quiet area on a Saturday night....

[russtafa]

hi Stavros the clubs most likely to have tgirls are Stonewall,taxi club in sydney