For Fuck Sakes

[MrsKellyPierce]

I'm a top and a bottom..I love being versatile!

Although I must admit I prefer bottoming - only cause I can cum multiple times in a row off that. (milking the prostate)

Topping you can usually cum once and then wait a few minutes then go again.

But I love fucking females and I love fucking a hot muscular bottom :smile:

I personally love sex..and what I have downstairs doesn't make me less feminine.

Or using it make me less feminine.

I never have thought with my dick lol

It certainly hasn't made my PERSONALITY or I would act a lot different!

I think it's so ridiculous some of the statements from the men and transwomen on this site!

The prejudice from both sides is stupid.

Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction.

It doesn't make you who you are!!! SEX = SATISFACTION! And there seems to be a lot of unsatisfied people in this world - due to cheating and hiding things you are into!

I know some of the manliest rugged men who have strong personalities who are total bottoms. Nobody would guess ever they would be bottoms. Keep in mind though you can bottom and still be manly. It's not like he has to start sashaying around the room or some crap!

I know girly gay boys who are total tops! And you would never guess they'd be dominate like that.

Sometimes people are tops, because ANAL SEX isn't enjoyable for them. It hurts! It's not PLEASURABLE FOR THEM. Some people's asses are more sensitive than others.

And a lot of men are bottoms with transwomen, because if they want to fuck - they can just go fuck a pussy?!? So this is something new for them!

I know lots of my stripper friends love strapping on a big strap on and fucking their men in the ass. And the men would never be with a transsexual or a man. But love anal stimulation.

The ass has tons of feel good nerve endings and milking the prostate is the most amazing feeling!

So get off your soapbox that someone is less feminine or less manly because they enjoys something in particular to get them off in the bedroom.

Or it makes them less of a woman!

FOR FUCK SAKES!

I know this is hard for many transwomen to believe..but a lot of men prefer PUSSY over ASS...and they get with a transwoman because she looks every bit of a girl and like some anal play...

I know this is hard for many MEN to believe, but a lot of us don't include sex to define our GENDER. So some transsexuals are bi (myself), lesbian/gay, or straight. Just like any other female!

So why don't you say the same crap to an attractive female who is only into females.

"That you shouldn't of been born if you are only into females."

The audacity of you to tell someone they shouldn't of transitioned if they wont SERVICE you men! Is disgusting!

PHEW!

[THEbottom]

Well said !!! Thanks, it's time people just let people be who and what they are without judgement !!! Sex is for fun !!!

[CORVETTEDUDE]

God bless your little pea pickin' heart, Kelly!!!

[iamdrgonzo]

What they typed.

[kaiser1one]

This coming from the chick who calls men pedophiles for liking the barely legal females?

[ELSAPO]

Good point Kelly. If I cum once from the prostate milking, how can I achieve multiple orgasm?? I have been trying to do this for a while, any tips???

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh and let me add - I realize a lot of transwomen are really insecure yet in their sexuality and how they are sexually due to being uncomfortable with themselves.

A lot of these trans-women have only lived two or three years as a woman. So in the beginning it's really important to not focus or do anything others might think as "manly"

Once you become comfortable with who you are and what you are. You start enjoying life and living it for you! And not for others.

[Mayrah]

:iagree: Well said indeed, now lets wait for the birgitta train to hit this thread:dancing:

[MrsKellyPierce]

This coming from the chick who calls men pedophiles for liking the barely legal females?
That was obviously one of my threads to start a commotion..since nobody posts anymore.

It got people posting didn't it?!

A lot of people who know me..know I mess with the board.

I have been here for years and half the threads I've made have been for a reaction.

And then every once in awhile I post something I really mean :) like this.

It's just that it used to be people would chime in on anything and now they only chime in when there is a BATTLE to be fought.

So for me I strategically do things to get people talking!

I'm a chatty girl and I like people to chat!

Why I barely ever get offended by anything online.

[ELSAPO]

stop fighting Kelly and answer my question!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Good point Kelly. If I cum once from the prostate milking, how can I achieve multiple orgasm?? I have been trying to do this for a while, any tips???
I don't know doll - it usually takes a good top.

An ass is a lot like fucking a pussy..

You aim up to hit the prostate...if the top hit's your prostate over and over you will cum.

Why when I'm with hubby I can cum 5 or 6 times, before he is finished fucking me.

So if you have a dildo make sure you aim up.

A lot of men when they fuck in general just move in and out and don't aim for anything. Their aim is to get themselves off.

But again some people's asses and prostates are more sensitive than others.

Just like how some women's vaginas are more sensitive than others.

Most women have never even experienced an orgasm during sex.

[darkko]

Thanks, Kelly. I came to this forum looking for open minded liberal and compassionate people. That and I am attracted to all kinda of peopl. For me sex is a life experience and I enjoy all kinds so I enjoy life. Oh and btw I am more attracted to you now after reading this, Thanks!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Thanks, Kelly. I came to this forum looking for open minded liberal and compassionate people. That and I am attracted to all kinda of peopl. For me sex is a life experience and I enjoy all kinds so I enjoy life. Oh and btw I am more attracted to you now after reading this, Thanks!
And that's how it should be! Thanks doll!

[BigDF]

A big salute card for you,Kelly, for being the voice of reason on here.:Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown:

[MrsKellyPierce]

A big salute card for you,Kelly, for being the voice of reason on here.:Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown:
In America we are so focused on the act of sex..we believe the act of sex makes a person who they are.

We are also so focused on men being too feminine...if a man shows any sign of femininity he is looked at as gay.

Only in the last ten years has it been where it was okay to be "metro-sexual"

In Europe and other countries they have been more open about sexuality for years.

I hope one day we are more open about it.

[DL_NL]

Hmmm, I wonder why everone here thinks that their own opinions on everything are the be all-end all. Glad that you're enjoying your sexuality Kelly, but have you considered that people might have other views? You seem to be discounting everyone else, anyway...

[MrsKellyPierce]

Hmmm, I wonder why everone here thinks that their own opinions on everything are the be all-end all. Glad that you're enjoying your sexuality Kelly, but have you considered that people might have other views? You seem to be discounting everyone else, anyway...

Their views are prejudice and small minded and unjust

What you enjoy sexually in a bedroom, doesn't determine your outside persona!

Fact! Not opinion!

[DL_NL]

Sexuality is a collection of preferences. Most likely that we do not enjoy the same, most likely that your next door neighbour does not enjoy the same as you.

It's not fact, it's opinion. You enjoying something does not mean that everyone enjoys the same thing. Nor can you make someone enjoy the same things you do, much as you'd want to. I'm glad that you're secure in your sexuality and like 'role reversal'. I don't, and that doesn't have anything to do with me being narrowminded.

We likely don't share political views, we don't like the same music or TV series, so why should we have the same things turn us on sexually?

[kaiser1one]

Their views are prejudice and small minded and unjust

What you enjoy sexually in a bedroom, doesn't determine your outside persona!

Fact! Not opinion!

This coming from a chick who wouldn't date or do a black guy?

[seamonkey]

Topping you can usually cum once and then wait a few minutes then go again.



Oh, to be young again...

[MrsKellyPierce]

Sexuality is a collection of preferences. Most likely that we do not enjoy the same, most likely that your next door neighbour does not enjoy the same as you.

It's not fact, it's opinion. You enjoying something does not mean that everyone enjoys the same thing. Nor can you make someone enjoy the same things you do, much as you'd want to. I'm glad that you're secure in your sexuality and like 'role reversal'. I don't, and that doesn't have anything to do with me being narrowminded.

We likely don't share political views, we don't like the same music or TV series, so why should we have the same things turn us on sexually?
DLNL where are you coming from?

I tried separating sexual acts from a persons persona!

I stated what a person does in the bedroom or is attracted to does NOT

Determine their Personality!

You are going on about I expect everyone to be a top or I expect everyone to be a bottom or I expect someone to be versatile!

I state again what you are into sexually doesn't determine your personality!

I have no clue what you are going on about.

I certainly never implied what you are!

[MrsKellyPierce]

I am speaking from a psychological point of view.

Stupid iPhone!

[DL_NL]

Is this another trolling thread?

Anyway: you like it, so we have to like it or you think we're narrowminded? Right.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Is this another trolling thread?

Anyway: you like it, so we have to like it or you think we're narrowminded? Right.

Are you being slow today on purpose?

Go back and read my first post slowly!

I never said anyone has to like what I like!

OMG

I stated DLNL due to what I like sexually doesn't determine my personality or makes me more or less feminine!

If having a dick or using it - I certainly would act a lot different!

I know you are from the Netherlands, but wow I don't know where you are drawing your point of view!

[MrsKellyPierce]

I am simply stating what someone prefers in the bedroom doesn't make them less manly - more feminine - gay, straight, or bi!

Like I said I have stripper friends who love fucking their men with a strap on or do anal play! And the guy would never be with a guy or tranny!

You schemed what I wrote and determined your own load of bull!

[Deepdarkfucker]

I would love to be deep inside you Kelly!

[KarinaGiselle]

Interesting...

Oh well it's been fun and I do agree with you Kelly (:

BTW you're very good at your work n.n

[MrsKellyPierce]

Point blank people do what they do in the bedroom for satisfaction and enjoyment point blank!

I can only agree with everyone's preference is different, but those preferences don't make or break someone's personality. Nor does it determine whether they have a feminine or masculine persona! Nor does it determine their personality!

Or If they are gay/bi/straight!

[scottnapx]

Kelly,
Just read you initial post... I LOVE YOU!

[maaarc]

now that the old Pope-rah is dead er.....I mean over I vote that Kelly become the new Pope-rah - she'll be our infallible spiritual leader and life coach from now on :) YaY!!!
Habemus Papam-rah!!!

[MrsKellyPierce]

now that the old Pope-rah is dead er.....I mean over I vote that Kelly become the new Pope-rah - she'll be our infallible spiritual leader and life coach from now on :) YaY!!!
Habemus Papam-rah!!!
lmao!! That's hilarious

[Birgitta]

Point blank people do what they do in the bedroom for satisfaction and enjoyment point blank!

I can only agree with everyone's preference is different, but those preferences don't make or break someone's personality. Nor does it determine whether they have a feminine or masculine persona! Nor does it determine their personality!

Or If they are gay/bi/straight!

True but i think being versatile, top, bttm is primarily an issue in the gay/bisexual community, not so much for straight people, and btw dominance does not require penetration, which i do see as a masculine act. A woman can be dominant without penetrating a guy, so without becoming masculine! In a sexual way.

[LaCosa]

What you enjoy sexually in a bedroom, doesn't determine your outside persona!


I think their is a lot truth in that. Although there are some sissy males that like to be bottom in the bedroom too, so, I suppose some peoples sexual enjoyments do transfer to their outward personas in public. :)

I currently on post on 2 web forums, this one and another one. On the other site I post on there is a tall, muscular, lawyer that is bisexual. Divorced from his ex-wife and married to a man now, they raise his daughter. He seems to be a pretty "freaky" person when it comes to his private sexual life (from some things he's suggested in his posts) but the cat can write and communicate his thoughts and opinions professionally, clearly, and like no one else in this world. He used to be a card carrying member of the Republican Party (he remains fiscally conservative in his views on economic policy) but has recently shifted to the "middle." I believe he voted for Obama as well, although he's no liberal in much of his political views.

He's one cat online I admire a lot. (We have different political views too - at least in a good number of areas - he's also a convert to the Episcopalians from Catholicism where as my sympathies still remain firmly in the camp of Catholicism out of any religion or Christian expression)

[Birgitta]

:iagree: Well said indeed, now lets wait for the birgitta train to hit this thread:dancing:

I know i have a very strong opinion but i never ever tell people what they should or should not do and enjoy...
But i'll make an exception for you...
Instead of being bothered by my posts, i think you better focus on the start of your transition, the social implications/difficulties you might encounter, and that you dont end up doing things you might regret afterwards...
Ive been different for most of my life in social situations, i know who i am, what i am and where i stand for, but this has taken me years, if this is the first time in your life that you will have to get used to being different, focus on that.
Ive seen too many ts woman bluffing and acting tough that ended up as alcoholics, drugaddicts, in the mad house, or becoming suicidal, seriously.

These things should be your concern, not what im writing on this board...

[dgs925]

blah blah blah, troll, troll, troll

Your shit is getting old.

[MrsKellyPierce]

True but i think being versatile, top, bttm is primarily an issue in the gay/bisexual community, not so much for straight people, and btw dominance does not require penetration, which i do see as a masculine act. A woman can be dominant without penetrating a guy, so without becoming masculine! In a sexual way.
Well sister I know plenty of females that love putting on a strap-on and fucking their husbands and boyfriends.

And I'm talking top female strippers and talent in the business. BEAUTIFUL, Every bit feminine, and their husband and boyfriends are very masculine and very very straight.

The ass is an erogenous area!

I consider straight, gay, and bisexual when you are attracted to a certain appearance.

If you are straight man - you are attracted to the looks of a woman.

If you are a bisexual man - You are attracted to the male body and the face of a man - And you are also attracted to the body of a woman and the face of a woman.

If you are gay - You are attracted only to the looks of a man.

And I think it even determines more on who you will date.

I see myself more straight than bisexual, due to the fact I would NEVER date a woman.

[Birgitta]

Well sister I know plenty of females that love putting on a strap-on and fucking their husbands and boyfriends.

And I'm talking top female strippers and talent in the business. BEAUTIFUL, Every bit feminine, and their husband and boyfriends are very masculine and very very straight.

The ass is an erogenous area!


A lot a man and woman feel extremely comfortable in traditional relationships, role reversal also has conscequences on an emotional and mental level which can effect roles outside of the bedroom too. A lot of straight men and woman are not up for that.

and the example you give, strippers, already shows that they are probably sexually different then most woman to start with...

[loveboof]

I would have thought it'd be quite hard to disagree with what Kelly said in her first post. Your sexual preferences can obviously be completely separate to your outward persona...

What are people arguing about?

[scottnapx]

I must admit what frustrates me the most about these conversations... and god knows there are plenty of them on this board... is people's obsession with labeling each other... in a world where people change their gender, change their sexuality, change identities... these labels make NO SENSE to me. Be who you want or need to be. Love who you want or need to love. Fuck who you want to how you want to. Far too much energy is spent labeling each other and themselves.
Fuck... I sound like a hippy!
BTW... thanks for keeping this thread basically civil! Nice change of pace.

[MrsKellyPierce]

A lot a man and woman feel extremely comfortable in traditional relationships, role reversal also has conscequences on an emotional and mental level which can effect roles outside of the bedroom too. A lot of straight men and woman are not up for that.

and the example you give, strippers, already shows that they are probably sexually different then most woman to start with...
Birgitta you got that holier than thou act down and prejudice.

"Oh those strippers are less than regular people."

"I mean no REAL woman would want to do that...only strippers and pornstars."

Where do you think pornstars get the idea for such a fetish? They do it cause it's an act a lot of women and men watch. Not just strippers and pornstars. They wouldn't make the movies if the niche didn't have a profit.

You would be surprised how many mainstream church going people are like in the bedroom doll.

You are very naive.

[Birgitta]

I consider straight, gay, and bisexual when you are attracted to a certain appearance.

If you are straight man - you are attracted to the looks of a woman.

If you are a bisexual man - You are attracted to the male body and the face of a man - And you are also attracted to the body of a woman and the face of a woman.

If you are gay - You are attracted only to the looks of a man.

And I think it even determines more on who you will date.

I see myself more straight than bisexual, due to the fact I would NEVER date a woman.

I dont really agree, not entirely...for me personally,
I only date guys that are top and masculine in personality,
A guy bottoming no matter how masculine he might appear is too feminine for my taste, same goes for masculine guys that want to wear lingery lol....

I think generally in the t community we see a lot of bisexual men of which most have show certain feminine desires...this is seen a lot in the gay community too.
But not so much in the straight community...

So to my opinion it does not all have to do with just looks, its more complicated

[MrsKellyPierce]

I dont really agree, not entirely...for me personally,
I only date guys that are top and masculine in personality,
A guy bottoming no matter how masculine he might appear is too feminine for my taste, same goes for masculine guys that want to wear lingery lol....

I think generally in the t community we see a lot of bisexual men of which most have show certain feminine desires...this is seen a lot in the gay community too.
But not so much in the straight community...

So to my opinion it does not all have to do with just looks, its more complicated
You are talking personal sexual preference for yourself Birgitta.

That don't make it so or true.

You are only into men that are tops. That's great you know what you want, but it doesn't mean that man would fuck a dude if he is only a bottom.

Like I said a lot of times these men are only bottoms for transsexuals and total tops with women. They only crossover to transsexuals for the kink or fetish factor.

But prefer PUSSY over ASS.

Plus what about the transsexuals who tried anal sex and didn't like it cause it was uncomfortable and hurt too much. As much as they tried they couldn't enjoy it or couldn't get into it.

They have to get off somehow.

[Birgitta]

Birgitta you got that holier than thou act down and prejudice..

i dont mind nor care what you do or enjoy in the bedroom, i dont feel better then you and i dont have a holier then thou attitude just because i have a different opinion....prove me wrong with sound arguments...you call me naive...

Weeeellll for me any men, that lets himself be fucked by his woman, even when 90 % of the males are like that, i would still see this as feminine behavior...

[MrsKellyPierce]

i dont mind nor care what you do or enjoy in the bedroom, i dont feel better then you and i dont have a holier then thou attitude just because i have a different opinion....prove me wrong with sound arguments...you call me naive...

Weeeellll for me any men, that lets himself be fucked by his woman, even when 90 % if the males are like that, i would still see this as feminine behavior...
Did you see where you said "I WOULD SEE" your personal opinion doesn't make it SO or TRUE.

Again!

Psychologically it doesn't hold true doll.

I have my bachelors in psychology. My mother was a sexual therapist. You are just prejudice and small minded.

Being a bottom or taking it up the ass doesn't make you GAY or BI!

What you are physically attracted to does.

You want people to see you as a woman, but point your nose and views down at others.

Kind of sad in my opinion.

[ed_jaxon]

Personally I want to see Kels catch one right in the face.

How many tokens would that cost?

[Birgitta]

Did you see where you said "I WOULD SEE" your personal opinion doesn't make it SO or TRUE.

Again!

Psychologically it doesn't hold true doll.

I have my bachelors in psychology. My mother was a sexual therapist. You are just prejudice and small minded.

Perhaps, or just too traditional.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Personally I want to see Kels catch one right in the face.

How many tokens would that cost?
You will see that soon enough on my website Ed :P

And did you see my chicken dance - I did it just for you!

I'll be on tonight!

[socalrick]

Perhaps, or just too traditional.

No. Kelly is right on. Y ou are just prejudice and small minded.

[loveboof]

I think you're arguing about different things!

For Birgitta, the pivotal idea seems to be around what you can define as femininity.

But it seems Kelly is referring to what I would identify as 'sexuality'.

[ed_jaxon]

You will see that soon enough on my website Ed :P

And did you see my chicken dance - I did it just for you!

I'll be on tonight!

I did not see the Chicken dance dammit.

I will try to check it out tonight but I am writing my last final paper. might need to take a break.

What time?

But I definitely want to see ya take a huge facial.

[Birgitta]

No. Kelly is right on. Y ou are just prejudice and small minded.

well none of you guys are open minded enough to want to understand my view..but i dont mind, perhaps im small minded for calling bottoming to transwoman feminine and not straight behavior or masculine, i still think im right...lol

I am not saying that i think its wrong, mind you

[MrsKellyPierce]

I think you're arguing about different things!

For Birgitta, the pivotal idea seems to be around what you can define as femininity.

But it seems Kelly is referring to what I would identify as 'sexuality'.
Birgitta is arguing what most transwomen argue.

The reason transwomen get a lot of retaliation and hate back from other communities.

They want everyone to accept them for who they are, but then stick their noses down at other people.

And the men that are attracted to us.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Birgitta views bottoming as a feminine act and topping as a manly act. She has set that in stone.

And wont budge on it.

However that doesn't make it true psychologically.

But yet all those transwomen who feel this way..get called a him or it or less feminine..oh lord help us all. It's on!

[Birgitta]

Birgitta is arguing what most transwomen argue.

The reason transwomen get a lot of retaliation and hate back from other communities.

They want everyone to accept them for who they are, but then stick their noses down at other people.

And the men that are attracted to us.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Birgitta views bottoming as a feminine act and topping as a manly act. She has set that in stone.

And wont budge on it.

However that doesn't make it true psychologically.

You dont know me, i dont want anyone to accept me as a woman that does not want to, on the other hand many tgirls that do not behave like most woman, both mentally and sexually all too often want sociaty to accept them as woman, i say, that i think those girls and their men are dreaming, i dont think it will ever happen, people are not mad or naive

[nicebrn]

i dont mind nor care what you do or enjoy in the bedroom, i dont feel better then you and i dont have a holier then thou attitude just because i have a different opinion....prove me wrong with sound arguments...you call me naive...

Weeeellll for me any men, that lets himself be fucked by his woman, even when 90 % of the males are like that, i would still see this as feminine behavior...
...well by your own logic that fails. Anything that "90% of men do" would be considered masculine by definition, since most people--yourself included--base their opinions on the reasoning that whatever "most" people do is "normal."

Though I have a very strong suspicion that most men that are interested in t-girls prefer to top most of the time. Those of us who would prefer the other way are a vocal minority. :)

My experiences suggests the 60-30-10 rule: 60% of all trans-attracted men are mostly tops, 30% are bottoms, and 10% are into the fetishistic aspects (the ones who like being transformed, or force-feminized, or just want to eye-fuck a girl with a dick, etc).

....bottoming as a feminine act and topping as a manly act. She has set that in stone.
...
However that doesn't make it true psychologically.I've said this many times. It's interesting that so many people have so much invested in this line of thinking.

[MrsKellyPierce]

...well by your own logic that fails. Anything that "90% of men do" would be considered masculine by definition, since most people--yourself included--base their opinions on the reasoning that whatever "most" people do is "normal."

Though I have a very strong suspicion that most men that are interested in t-girls prefer to top most of the time. Those of us who would prefer the other way are a vocal minority. :)

My experiences suggests the 60-30-10 rule: 60% of all trans-attracted men are mostly tops, 30% are bottoms, and 10% are into the fetishistic aspects (the ones who like being transformed, or force-feminized, or just want to eye-fuck a girl with a dick, etc).Good point! Bravo!

[MrsKellyPierce]

You dont know me, i dont want anyone to accept me as a woman that does not want to, on the other hand many tgirls that do not behave like most woman, both mentally and sexually all too often want sociaty to accept them as woman, i say, that i think those girls and their men are dreaming, i dont think it will ever happen, people are not mad or naive
Birgitta I don't know you, but I'm stating what you stated.

A man bottoming is feminine, and a man topping is masculine.

Is that not your point?

My point is there are plenty of feminine tops and masculine bottoms.

[loveboof]

To be fair, Birgitta was saying 'even if 90% of men were something, she'd still think the way she does'

So I don't think you can really turn percentages on her.

[lisaparadise]

Oh and let me add - I realize a lot of transwomen are really insecure yet in their sexuality and how they are sexually due to being uncomfortable with themselves.

A lot of these trans-women have only lived two or three years as a woman. So in the beginning it's really important to not focus or do anything others might think as "manly"

Once you become comfortable with who you are and what you are. You start enjoying life and living it for you! And not for others.very well said,i remember feeling that way in the first couple years but i soon realized that life was passing me by and i really missed out on alot of fun so now i do what i want i play golf almost every day and i get paid for fucking like an animal how freakin awesome is that?i seriously love myself i still look in the mirrer and wish i could fuck myself and think fuckin amazing dunno whatt i love more me or my mirrers lol but fuck it i love life thats just how it is.

[Birgitta]

Birgitta I don't know you, but I'm stating what you stated.

A man bottoming is feminine, and a man topping is masculine.

Is that not your point?

My point is there are plenty of feminine tops and masculine bottoms.

I know, but the act of bottoming i call feminine behavior, even if its a macho man...

[SisterDickRadio]

I know i have a very strong opinion but i never ever tell people what they should or should not do and enjoy...
But i'll make an exception for you...
Instead of being bothered by my posts, i think you better focus on the start of your transition, the social implications/difficulties you might encounter, and that you dont end up doing things you might regret afterwards...
Ive been different for most of my life in social situations, i know who i am, what i am and where i stand for, but this has taken me years, if this is the first time in your life that you will have to get used to being different, focus on that.
Ive seen too many ts woman bluffing and acting tough that ended up as alcoholics, drugaddicts, in the mad house, or becoming suicidal, seriously.

These things should be your concern, not what im writing on this board...

UR one RUDE ASS BITCH! You have no right to say this BS and you have no right to judge the way you do on this forum. You are one of the most closed minded people I have ever seen. Girl OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! Maybe you need some meds because your one crazy bitch!

[SisterDickRadio]

AMEN KELLY!!!!

This is so true and I have been saying it for years! You said it so well, but of course people on this board love to twist everyones words! Thanks again for posting this!!!

[lisaparadise]

[QUOTE=nicebrn;940773My experiences suggests the 60-30-10 rule: 60% of all trans-attracted men are mostly tops, 30% are bottoms, and 10% are into the fetishistic aspects (the ones who like being transformed, or force-feminized, or just want to eye-fuck a girl with a dick, etc).
I've said this many times. It's interesting that so many people have so much invested in this line of thinking.[/QUOTE]well said thank god my guys all cum to me from the 60 per cent lol

[MrsKellyPierce]

UR one RUDE ASS BITCH! You have no right to say this BS and you have no right to judge the way you do on this forum. You are one of the most closed minded people I have ever seen. Girl OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! Maybe you need some meds because your one crazy bitch!
Michelle, it's appalling to me sometimes. I had to bite my tongue a few times.

[MrsKellyPierce]

well said thank god my guys all cum to me from the 60 per cent lol
I was waiting for you to weigh in! Waiting for Vanessa too lol

[Birgitta]

Birgitta I don't know you, but I'm stating what you stated.

A man bottoming is feminine, and a man topping is masculine.

Is that not your point?

My point is there are plenty of feminine tops and masculine bottoms.

Thats what i mean with traditional, i like to date a leader, not a follower, not a man with a submissive personality, but one thats able to boss me around :) that is mentally and physically stronger then me, when it comes to an arguement at least, thats what i enjoy :) and desire in life

[Birgitta]

UR one RUDE ASS BITCH! You have no right to say this BS and you have no right to judge the way you do on this forum. You are one of the most closed minded people I have ever seen. Girl OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! Maybe you need some meds because your one crazy bitch!

Thanks ! :)

[SisterDickRadio]

Michelle, it's appalling to me sometimes. I had to bite my tongue a few times.

She had no fucking right to tell that girl what she said. I cant believe people are so closed minded when we are so shunned in this society for being trans. And here is a trans woman being rude and closed minded to our own! So ashamed of this person, it makes me sick!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Thats what i mean with traditional, i like to date a leader, not a follower, not a man with a submissive personality, but one thats able to boss me around :) that is mentally and physically stronger then me, when it comes to an arguement at least, thats what i enjoy :) and desire in life
I know lots of masculine, bossy bottoms. You act like if a man bottoms for you - you have to be all masculine and smack him around. Or he starts parading around the room or asking you to call him a bitch.

Not all men that bottom are like that.

[lisaparadise]

I was waiting for you to weigh in! Waiting for Vanessa too lollol,i used to be against topping simply because guys dont clean thenselves but the ones i do top they clean and i fuck there brains out bigtime i have no problem with it.

[SisterDickRadio]

I was waiting for you to weigh in! Waiting for Vanessa too lol

I was too!!!! LOL! Wheres Vanessa??? LOL

[MrsKellyPierce]

She had no fucking right to tell that girl what she said. I cant believe people are so closed minded when we are so shunned in this society for being trans. And here is a trans woman being rude and closed minded to our own! So ashamed of this person, it makes me sick!
Exactly my point..I have always felt our own community is worse than all the other communities. When it comes to hatred and discrimination.

[MrsKellyPierce]

So Birgitta what if a transwoman dates a female and fucks her - does that make her less feminine too?

[loveboof]

I'm new here, but this place is like a soap opera lol...

Let's all take a deep breath and work this thing out :P


I know, but the act of bottoming i call feminine behavior, even if its a macho man...
You could have a point, but what actually is your definition of femininity? Because on a forum filled with T-girls (and you yourself from what I've assumed), don't you think a definition of what is feminine should be something fairly flexible?

[Birgitta]

She had no fucking right to tell that girl what she said. I cant believe people are so closed minded when we are so shunned in this society for being trans. And here is a trans woman being rude and closed minded to our own! So ashamed of this person, it makes me sick!

Its true isnt it?? And its a sound warning..i think every girl should be warned about life as a ts...i have seen and known many tgirls that ended up miserable, and i am glad i was warned when i started my transition!!!!

Its one of the reasons im having 0 identity issues now

[Birgitta]

So Birgitta what if a transwoman dates a female and fucks her - does that make her less feminine too?

Agian im not saying it makes her personality less feminine, i said that i think penetration is a masculine act, and still think im right.

[loveboof]

Agian im not saying it makes her personality less feminine, i said that i think penetration is a masculine act, and still think im right.

If you think penetration is inherently masculine, then surely you believe simply having a penis makes you a man?

[SisterDickRadio]

Its true isnt it?? And its a sound warning..i think every girl should be warned about life as a ts...i have seen and known many tgirls that ended up miserable, and i am glad i was warned when i started my transition!!!!

Its one of the reasons im having 0 identity issues now

You didnt warn her, your were rude and said what you said out of hatred. Im sorry you dont know how to speak to people. I teach seminars at trans conventions on identity and inner beauty. I dont care how far someone is in their transition, i respect everyone. I am heading to Chicago next week to teach a seminar at Be All. So Im sorry but I feel you like attacking people who have not the same beliefs as you do. You need to be more open minded, and if you are going to mentor or give advice you might want to be not so judgmental.

[MrsKellyPierce]

If you think penetration is inherently masculine, then surely you believe simply having a penis makes you a man?
ding ding ding ding

[KarinaGiselle]

Oh my god I just can't close this tab... I want to see how it ends.

[Birgitta]

If you think penetration is inherently masculine, then surely you believe simply having a penis makes you a man?

Im a transsexual! my body does not match my soul

Guys seriously!!!!!

Ask any gay guy, is bottoming feminine or masculine, they will answer feminine, or refer to it as their feminine side, no matter how masculine their personality

You girls are offended when i say that when you like penetration its a masculine side in your personality and or sexuality...i think that is not offensive, its just true

[MrsKellyPierce]

you didnt warn her, your were rude and said what you said out of hatred. Im sorry you dont know how to speak to people. I teach seminars at trans conventions on identity and inner beauty. I dont care how far someone is in their transition, i respect everyone. I am heading to chicago next week to teach a seminar at be all. So im sorry but i feel you like attacking people who have not the same beliefs as you do. You need to be more open minded, and if you are going to mentor or give advice you might want to be not so judgmental.
true!

[SisterDickRadio]

Im a transsexual! my body does not match my soul

Guys seriously!!!!!

Ask any gay guy, is bottoming feminine or masculine, they will answer feminine, or refer to it as their feminine side, no matter how masculine their personality

You girls are offended when i say that when you like penetration its a masculine side in your personality and or sexuality...i think that is not offensive, its just true

I dont know what gay guys you been around but I know many masculine buff guys who would never be considered gay who love to bottom. They would never say getting fucked makes them feminine. Once again I dont know where you get your facts!

And I know many many masc bears who love to get fisted and fucked that would never say that is sissy stuff. So once again what gay crowd are you around? They must be as closed minded as you.

[Birgitta]

You didnt warn her, your were rude and said what you said out of hatred. Im sorry you dont know how to speak to people. I teach seminars at trans conventions on identity and inner beauty. I dont care how far someone is in their transition, i respect everyone. I am heading to Chicago next week to teach a seminar at Be All. So Im sorry but I feel you like attacking people who have not the same beliefs as you do. You need to be more open minded, and if you are going to mentor or give advice you might want to be not so judgmental.

Most of you girls to me appear to only want to be the centre of attention instead of truely wanting to educate people about transwoman lol
But i could be wrong...

[MrsKellyPierce]

I dont know what gay guys you been around but I know many masculine buff guys who would never be considered gay who love to bottom. They would never say getting fucked makes them feminine. Once again I dont know where you get your facts!
She makes her own facts by her own personal beliefs.

And dictates everyone should live by her "traditional standards"

Queen Birgitta

D e L u S i O n A l

[Birgitta]

She makes her own facts by her own personal beliefs.

And dictates everyone should live by her "traditional standards"

If thats true you are doing the same exactly, just coz im a minority here, naturally, does not mean im wrong,

And im not dictating anybody how to live their life..

Perhaps start using your brain a little more...

[Yvonne183]

I'm new here, but this place is like a soap opera lol...

Let's all take a deep breath and work this thing out :P


You could have a point, but what actually is your definition of femininity? Because on a forum filled with T-girls (and you yourself from what I've assumed), don't you think a definition of what is feminine should be something fairly flexible?


I think you got a good point,,, what exactly if the definition of feminine? And whose definition is to be followed? I think it is flexible, or fluid/changing. And it is impossible to make an exact definition. I guess it's just what the person talking or posting believes it is at that time and some will probably have differing views.

I think the definition of being fem is the ability to scratch ones butt on a crowded train without anyone noticing,, Masculine people just scratch their butt without a care.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Umm I have so many gay friends it's not funny and they see FEMME and BUTCH on LOOKS and DEMEANOR - NOT ON WHAT THEY DO SEXUALLY.

FEMME QUEEN - Looks

TWINK - LOOKS

BUTCH QUEEN - LOOKS

MUSCULAR BOTTOM -

The list goes on..

Gays are very superficial creatures and all of it is based on looks for the most part!

[MrsKellyPierce]

If thats true you are doing the same exactly, just coz im a minority here, naturally, does not mean im wrong,
No doll I'm basing mine on studies, facts, and psychological proof!

You are basing yours own personal opinion.

[SisterDickRadio]

Most of you girls to me appear to only want to be the centre of attention instead of truely wanting to educate people about transwoman lol
But i could be wrong...

You dont get it. It seems your the one that wants attention. You are far from someone who should educate other trans women. I have been teaching and educating trans women for years. I had an educational talk show for many years, wrote articles in trans magazines and helped many girls transition. I am more understanding and open minded. There are tons of different types of trans women just like there are different types of people (Blk, White, Asian, Gay, Bi, Str8, Etc.). Maybe if you opened up to that and was not so judgementel you would see that. The girls on here being outspoken are far more open minded then you are. I have been trans for over 10yrs now, I have been around trans women longer than that.

[Birgitta]

Oooh and btw 100% woman tsvanessa who tops also educates the masses too about tswoman...and says, if you dont like your dick, cut it off

To me you appear more like attention craving gay males then woman lol
She even lets her romantic boyfriends pay for her time lol

[loveboof]

Im a transsexual! my body does not match my soul
....
You girls are offended when i say that when you like penetration its a masculine side in your personality and or sexuality...i think that is not offensive, its just true
When you say your body does not match your soul, are you actually saying that you still consider yourself a man?

And personality and sexuality does not necessarily have to be aligned. Look at those powerful business men who enjoy being dominated. Are they any worse at their job because of this fantasy..?

[MrsKellyPierce]

Most of you girls to me appear to only want to be the centre of attention instead of truely wanting to educate people about transwoman lol
But i could be wrong...
I think you are very wrong Michelle and I have been activists for years.

I have been an activist, since I was 16 years old.

I was part of St. Pete PRIDE - Mind you the only transsexual Secretary of St. Pete PRIDE.

Spoke to hundreds of colleges and schools about being transsexual to educate!

And get these small minded and closed minded views you yourself have conquered in some way!

I have always given back to my own community and helped!

I have lived a very blessed life. Transitioned at age 12 and went to high school as a girl. With out being beating up or too much discrimination.

A family and husband that loves me and supports me in all I do.

So please you are ridiculous.

Oh and one other thing I'm DRUG FREE and ALCOHOL FREE for the most part. I rarely every drink - if I do it's a glass of champagne on a special occasion.

You sure dish a lot of judgement out doll..

Usually the ones that are the most judgmental typically have something to hide or have something wrong with them.

[MrsKellyPierce]

And not to be mean, but your yourself don't look like you are that far transitioned Birgitta to pick on that other girl.

Again those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

And I typically find the ones that are in such disregard and judgement of others are either crossdressers wanting to be a girl (fantasizing)

OR

They are the ones that have body dysphoria and not transsexuals.

And then end up unhappy after the change.

[Birgitta]

When you say your body does not match your soul, are you actually saying that you still consider yourself a man?

And personality and sexuality does not necessarily have to be aligned. Look at those powerful business men who enjoy being dominated. Are they any worse at their job because of this fantasy..?

Yeah true they dont have to be alligned, but as far as penetration in role reversal goes by an actual penis, i think thats gay or bisexual and feminine behavior, and not straight...

Physically im in between, my soul is my identity, but my body differs from my soul..im not exactly a man anymore, im on female hormones, have breast etc..my penis does not define my soul..but my male parts are male parst

They are not feminine,
Im too rational for you guys and gals lol

[loveboof]

Yeah true they dont have to be alligned, but as far as penetration in role reversal goes by an actual penis, i think thats gay or bisexual and feminine behavior, and not straight...

Physically im in between, my soul is my identity, but my body differs from my soul..im not exactly a man anymore, im on female hormones, have breast etc..my penis does not define my soul..but my male parts are male parst

They are not feminine,
Im too rational for you guys and gals lol
Maybe you are, but then there are a lot of people who would consider you to be irrational for believing in souls. I don't think it would be fair to say either one of those views are wrong, and it is similar in this discussion.

Maybe you are right, and it is inherently masculine to penetrate another person. However, if you believe this, then (with all due respect) it sounds to me like you are still in the midst of your identity issues.

[Birgitta]

I think you are very wrong Michelle and I have been activists for years.

I have been an activist, since I was 16 years old.

I was part of St. Pete PRIDE - Mind you the only transsexual Secretary of St. Pete PRIDE.

Spoke to hundreds of colleges and schools about being transsexual to educate!

And get these small minded and closed minded views you yourself have conquered in some way!

I have always given back to my own community and helped!

I have lived a very blessed life. Transitioned at age 12 and went to high school as a girl. With out being beating up or too much discrimination.

A family and husband that loves me and supports me in all I do.

So please you are ridiculous.

Oh and one other thing I'm DRUG FREE and ALCOHOL FREE for the most part. I rarely every drink - if I do it's a glass of champagne on a special occasion.

You sure dish a lot of judgement out doll..

Usually the ones that are the most judgmental typically have something to hide or have something wrong with them.

I am ridiculous? You know as well as i do that there still is a lot of suffering in the tcommunity,

I wonder what i have to hide, i think ive been extremely open on this forum,
And whats wrong with me?

Well i am a ts and desire my life to much like the life of an ordinary woman as much as possible! I know you think thats wrong, and the guys here too...

That im delusional for wanting that for myself
and btw i have accomplished that too, im also drug and alcohol free but thats beside the point,

I defend my point of view, you defend yours...but i still dont think im narrow minded, just very rational

[nicebrn]

I dont know what gay guys you been around but I know many masculine buff guys who would never be considered gay who love to bottom. They would never say getting fucked makes them feminine. Once again I dont know where you get your facts!

And I know many many masc bears who love to get fisted and fucked that would never say that is sissy stuff. So once again what gay crowd are you around? They must be as closed minded as you.
I've wondered this too. I've never been to Euro-land, but based on the UK scene I've seen on TV and conversations I've had with British and German girls, GLBT culture seems at least as diverse as it is in the States. I haven't yet talked with anyone else on the Continent who believes all those masculine/feminine/active/passive/top/bottom roles are so rigid.

I could be wrong, but hey--that's just like, my opinion man.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I am ridiculous? You know as well as i do that there still is a lot of suffering in the tcommunity,

I wonder what i have to hide, i think ive been extremely open on this forum,
And whats wrong with me?

Well i am a ts and desire my life to much like the life of an ordinary woman as much as possible! I know you think thats wrong, and the guys here too...

That im delusional for wanting that for myself
and btw i have accomplished that too, im also drug and alcohol free but thats beside the point,

I defend my point of view, you defend yours...but i still dont think im narrow minded, just very rational
I don't think you understand the word rational...

agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.

3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.

And you are misquoting and trying to play the victim on the delusional comment :)

And you were being ridiculous on your claim, about the spotlight.

I was doing activism way before porn.

[Birgitta]

Maybe you are, but then there are a lot of people who would consider you to be irrational for believing in souls. I don't think it would be fair to say either one of those views are wrong, and it is similar in this discussion.

Maybe you are right, and it is inherently masculine to penetrate another person. However, if you believe this, then (with all due respect) it sounds to me like you are still in the midst of your identity issues.


Why? I dont use my cock for the purpose of penetrating guys lol so why am i having identity issues?

My female identity that i call soul might as well just be the way my brain is wired...

[Birgitta]

I don't think you understand the word rational...

agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.

3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.

And you are misquoting and trying to play the victim on the delusional comment :)


Well i recognise myself in that lol

[MrsKellyPierce]

Well i recognise myself in that lol
Noone else does...

:)

[SisterDickRadio]

I am ridiculous? You know as well as i do that there still is a lot of suffering in the tcommunity,

I wonder what i have to hide, i think ive been extremely open on this forum,
And whats wrong with me?

Well i am a ts and desire my life to much like the life of an ordinary woman as much as possible! I know you think thats wrong, and the guys here too...

That im delusional for wanting that for myself
and btw i have accomplished that too, im also drug and alcohol free but thats beside the point,

I defend my point of view, you defend yours...but i still dont think im narrow minded, just very rational

And many ordinary women fuck their husbands with strap-ons....

So maybe you can be just like them and fuck guys with your cock! I mean hey, you want to be like ordinary women. They do all that freaky stuff in the bedroom that you consider to be GAY! Yea and your signature says your Freaky!

What we are saying is that you are being narrow minded about sex! Sex is a feeling not being gay or str8. Fem or Masc. Thats the point you dont get. You automatically call dudes gay for getting it in the ass and women who fuck them men basically. So yes you are very narrow minded.

[loveboof]

Why? I dont use my cock for the purpose of penetrating guys lol so why am i having identity issues?

My female identity that i call soul might as well just be the way my brain is wired...
Because the view you're presenting isn't really compatible with the resolution of these kind of gender issues.

Like I said before - if the act of penetration is inherently masculine, then what does that say about the state of simply having a penis? If you want to maintain your 'rational' stance, then you have to stop drawing a distinction between owning a penis and it's possible uses. How can using a penis for a particular function be masculine, but somehow having one in the first place not be masculine?

This is the problem with your reasoning. Maybe you are right - I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world who completely agree with that stance. But coming from you (a transgender woman), this view doesn't really mean anything...

[Birgitta]

Noone else does...

:)


Because they dont want to confront themselves with reality, too uncomfortable..thats why im so popular here lol

[Birgitta]

Because the view you're presenting isn't really compatible with the resolution of these kind of gender issues.

Like I said before - if the act of penetration is inherently masculine, then what does that say about the state of simply having a penis? By these margins all T-girls have to be inherently masculine.

I don't believe this, and I don't believe you believe this. Which is why people are disagreeing with you now...


A penis is just a body part, not an intelligence, not an act in itself, but believing that is masculine lol only yoking

[MrsKellyPierce]

Because they dont want to confront themselves with reality, too uncomfortable..thats why im so popular here lol
The fact you have a penis by your standards is not "traditional" so the fact a man does anything with you by your "traditional" standards is FEMININE.

[MrsKellyPierce]

A penis is just a body part, not an intelligence, not an act in itself, but believing that is masculine lol only yoking
Now we are getting somewhere!

A penis is just a body part....

[Birgitta]

The fact you have a penis by your standards is not "traditional" so the fact a man does anything with you by your "traditional" standards is FEMININE.

I expected you to be smarter then this

[Birgitta]

The fact you have a penis by your standards is not "traditional" so the fact a man does anything with you by your "traditional" standards is FEMININE.

I date guys that dont mind me having a penis, but have no special interest in it too, i date guys that are masculine both in character and sexuality...i match with them on a physical, emotional and psychological level

[MrsKellyPierce]

I expected you to be smarter then this
I expect you to be smarter than this.

The traditionalism you are speaking of only exists for people born the sex they are happy with and live as.

Any traditional person that you speak about would still see it feminine or gay doing anything with you whether a top or a bottom.

:)

But yet you put yourself up on a pedestal!

[MrsKellyPierce]

I date guys that dont mind me having a penis, but have no special interest in it too, i date guys that are masculine both in character and sexuality...
But still like that "special factor"

[Birgitta]

But still like that "special factor"


Yes but not for feminine reasons, thats the difference

[MrsKellyPierce]

Yes but not for feminine reasons, thats the difference
For you (that's your convenience) ...not for a straight traditional female :)

[Birgitta]

I expect you to be smarter than this.

The traditionalism you are speaking of only exists for people born the sex they are happy with and live as.

Any traditional person that you speak about would still see it feminine or gay doing anything with you whether a top or a bottom.

:)

But yet you put yourself up on a pedestal!


it excists for me too kelly, it takes a longer time to find it, but its not impossible...

And yeees thats my point exactly, i share the point of view with "traditional" people, not the view of tswoman...just because i am a ts, you think i have no right to want to live my life as a traditional woman, and mosr guys here think the same way..

And you are calling ME narrowminded...

???????????

[MrsKellyPierce]

it excists for me too kelly, it takes a longer time to find it, but its not impossible...

And yeees thats my point exactly, i share the point of view with "traditional" people, not the view of tswoman...just because i am a ts, you think i have no right to want to live my life as a traditional woman, and mosr guys here think the same way..

And you are calling ME narrowminded...

???????????
No you have every right to be into what you are doll..

You just have no right to look down on someone or judge someone.

[LaCosa]

Im a transsexual! my body does not match my soul

Guys seriously!!!!!

Ask any gay guy, is bottoming feminine or masculine, they will answer feminine, or refer to it as their feminine side, no matter how masculine their personality

You girls are offended when i say that when you like penetration its a masculine side in your personality and or sexuality...i think that is not offensive, its just true


You are right about societal or cultural perceptions. I'm no psychologist mind you nor trying to be a debutante of psychology. But - and social sciences will agree with this - you can indoctrinate an entire population or people.

I remember someone once corrected me about brainwashing. He's a former journalist and left wing sympathizer that speaks at minimum English and Spanish. :lol: Anyways, I had said you can brainwash a people. He corrected me. He said you can brainwash individuals but the word you are looking for is "indoctrination." You can indoctrinate a people. He's a better word person than myself, so, I defer to his critique. :lol: (I know... that was all off topic)

I don't think the cultural perception of masculinity and femininity are necessarily wrong. They are what they are and I largely adhere to them and inform my opinion by them.

But I think what Kelly was getting at is that some things are merely cultural perceptions and or mores we are indoctrinated with, and given that we can observe differing "shades of color" so to speak, in life and throughout the human experience of sexuality.

Consider the bisexual. Consider in between the XX chromosome woman and transsexual woman the XY chromosome man that is a cross dresser in the privacy of his home but the masculine, aggressive, domineering head of the FBI most hours of his life.

Or as many people do not seem to know... within Catholic spirituality men are considered to be in the feminine place as God acts upon them in the masculine role. God is "Father" or "male" in so far as He acts upon souls as a penis in a vagina. Hence Jesus is "bridegroom" to his entire Church. Meaning all male Christians are the bride.

But we would not view men - Christian men in traditional roles - otherwise as feminine.

A man might like experiencing the feminine role with his stripper girls friend armed with a strap-on, but he may not wish to live out most hours of his life in what we regard as thew feminine role.

Even in BDSM among heterosexuals they have "switches" and not just those fixed in tops and bottoms.





Also... you might consider the Japanese Samurai who were one of the most bisexual cultures or institutions in the world historically. They did not have the Western notions of "gay" and "straight" and two Samurai having sex with one another was an amoral issue for them. They were still regarded as pretty manly, fierce warriors.

[loveboof]

A penis is just a body part, not an intelligence, not an act in itself, but believing that is masculine lol only yoking
Personally I am more than happy to accept that an act such as penetration involves a decision process, where as a penis is just a body part.

But then we have to concede that it is the decision involved in that action which is the most important defining feature of whether it is masculine or not...

This means we are no longer dealing in absolute facts - but intentions.

Which inevitably means the action is defined by the person not the other way round!

[nicebrn]

And yeees thats my point exactly, i share the point of view with "traditional" people, not the view of tswoman...
There is nothing "traditional" or conventional about acting on attraction to ts girls. If there were, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. At least in the States, no matter how traditional your sexual roles may be with your ts girlfriend, most people will still see you as deviant for being with her.

[Birgitta]

No you have every right to be into what you are doll..

You just have no right to look down on someone or judge someone.

Im not looking down on anyone, well perhaps physically at times, coz im a tall girl :)

[lisaparadise]

I was too!!!! LOL! Wheres Vanessa??? LOLwtf?r u sayin you respect my opinions?i just made 200 bucks in 11 mins lol now i need to play with myself

[Birgitta]

There is nothing "traditional" or conventional about acting on attraction to ts girls. If there were, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. At least in the States, no matter how traditional your sexual roles may be with your ts girlfriend, most people will still see you as deviant for being with her.

I know but thats beside the point

[loveboof]

I know but thats beside the point
(please dont overlook my last comment, I know this is a fast moving thread, but I'd like to see what you have to say about that)

I don't think it is beside the point at all. What nicebrn was hinting at is cultural and moral relavitism.

In Ancient Greece (for eg), there was nothing un-masculine about 'gay' sexual acts. Society's values are ever evolving!

[Birgitta]

I think the definition of being fem is the ability to scratch ones butt on a crowded train without anyone noticing,, Masculine people just scratch their butt without a care.

Whahahahaha ! Loool

[Birgitta]

Personally I am more than happy to accept that an act such as penetration involves a decision process, where as a penis is just a body part.

But then we have to concede that it is the decision involved in that action which is the most important defining feature of whether it is masculine or not...

This means we are no longer dealing in absolute facts - but intentions.

Which inevitably means the action is defined by the person not the other way round!


I dont really get this..
I think i agree with what you say...
But the moment you act its a fact

The person is defined by actions

[Jericho]

I'm a top and a bottom..I love being versatile!

Although I must admit I prefer bottoming - only cause I can cum multiple times in a row off that. (milking the prostate)

Topping you can usually cum once and then wait a few minutes then go again.

But I love fucking females and I love fucking a hot muscular bottom :smile:

I personally love sex..and what I have downstairs doesn't make me less feminine.

Or using it make me less feminine.

I never have thought with my dick lol

It certainly hasn't made my PERSONALITY or I would act a lot different!

I think it's so ridiculous some of the statements from the men and transwomen on this site!

The prejudice from both sides is stupid.

Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction.

It doesn't make you who you are!!! SEX = SATISFACTION! And there seems to be a lot of unsatisfied people in this world - due to cheating and hiding things you are into!

I know some of the manliest rugged men who have strong personalities who are total bottoms. Nobody would guess ever they would be bottoms. Keep in mind though you can bottom and still be manly. It's not like he has to start sashaying around the room or some crap!

I know girly gay boys who are total tops! And you would never guess they'd be dominate like that.

Sometimes people are tops, because ANAL SEX isn't enjoyable for them. It hurts! It's not PLEASURABLE FOR THEM. Some people's asses are more sensitive than others.

And a lot of men are bottoms with transwomen, because if they want to fuck - they can just go fuck a pussy?!? So this is something new for them!

I know lots of my stripper friends love strapping on a big strap on and fucking their men in the ass. And the men would never be with a transsexual or a man. But love anal stimulation.

The ass has tons of feel good nerve endings and milking the prostate is the most amazing feeling!

So get off your soapbox that someone is less feminine or less manly because they enjoys something in particular to get them off in the bedroom.

Or it makes them less of a woman!

FOR FUCK SAKES!

I know this is hard for many transwomen to believe..but a lot of men prefer PUSSY over ASS...and they get with a transwoman because she looks every bit of a girl and like some anal play...

I know this is hard for many MEN to believe, but a lot of us don't include sex to define our GENDER. So some transsexuals are bi (myself), lesbian/gay, or straight. Just like any other female!

So why don't you say the same crap to an attractive female who is only into females.

"That you shouldn't of been born if you are only into females."

The audacity of you to tell someone they shouldn't of transitioned if they wont SERVICE you men! Is disgusting!

PHEW!
Just shake it you old bitch, i'd do you!

[Birgitta]

Just shake it you old bitch, i'd do you!

Shut up you drunk ! Lol

[nicebrn]

(please dont overlook my last comment, I know this is a fast moving thread, but I'd like to see what you have to say about that)

I don't think it is beside the point at all. What nicebrn was hinting at is cultural and moral relavitism.

In Ancient Greece (for eg), there was nothing un-masculine about 'gay' sexual acts. Society's values are ever evolving!
Absolutely--that is indeed where I was going.

And a few hundred miles away in Rome, it was the opposite. Julius Caesar might have been the manliest of men, but if he was ravished by the pirates who tried to ransom him (as legend has it), Roman society would have viewed him as effeminate.

I'm going to make a strong claim and assert that all these standards are arbitrary...especially in the modern era. You can make the claim that God ordained these standards, but then that leads back to say, the Holiness Code's injunction against crossdressing (crossdressing wasn't inherently sinful, but it was contrary to the Law because it violated the divinely-established gender roles for the Israelites). The primary reason why many of them continue to endure is through sheer societal inertia.

[Birgitta]

Absolutely--that is indeed where I was going.

And a few hundred miles away in Rome, it was the opposite. Julius Caesar might have been the manliest of men, but if he was ravished by the pirates who tried to ransom him (as legend has it), Roman society would have viewed him as effeminate.

I'm going to make a strong claim and assert that all these standards are arbitrary...especially in the modern era. You can make the claim that God ordained these standards, but then that leads back to say, Holiness Code's injunction against crossdressing (crossdressing wasn't inherently sinful, but it was contrary to the Law because it violated the divinely-established gender roles for the Israelites). The primary reason why many of them continue to endure is through sheer societal inertia.

Great i can return to living as a guy eureka ! Im arbitrary anyway so why bother lol

[loveboof]

I dont really get this..
I think i agree with what you say...
But the moment you act its a fact

The person is defined by actions
You believe that the act of penetration is inherently masculine, but that a person is not necessarily male just because they have a penis. So what is causing this masculinity if not the penis?

You inevitably have to concede that under your position something else has to be defining masculinity.

As you said, an action involves a decision. You have to choose to commit it. So this means that the deciding factor behind whether the action is masculine or not comes from the person. Their intentions behind the action.

You can say that I am masculine if I go round fighting, fucking, and scratching my arse. But these are relative values - they are not absolute. They do not make a man. Just as makeup, nagging, and enjoying shopping doesn't make a woman...

[Birgitta]

You believe that the act of penetration is inherently masculine, but that a person is not necessarily male just because they have a penis. So what is causing this masculinity if not the penis?

You inevitably have to concede that under your position something else has to be defining masculinity.

As you said, an action involves a decision. You have to choose to commit it. So this means that the deciding factor behind whether the action is masculine or not comes from the person. Their intentions behind the action.

You can say that I am masculine if I go round fighting, fucking, and scratching my arse. But these are relative values - they are not absolute. They do not make a man. Just as makeup, nagging, and enjoying shopping doesn't make a woman...

Is it really that hard to believe penetration is a masculine act ?

[Miss Aeryn]

There is a drink for that re the thread title:

[loveboof]

Is it really that hard to believe penetration is a masculine act ?
No it's very easy! It is certainly the prevailing opinion of our time.

But why is penetration a masculine act?

[Birgitta]

No it's very easy! It is certainly the prevailing opinion of our time.

But why is penetration a masculine act?

its the biology of men !!!!

[Birgitta]

You want to merge fact with opinions, but thats not being honest

[nicebrn]

Great i can return to living as a guy eureka ! Im arbitrary anyway so why bother lol
If you really think that was my point, I can only...shake my head.... :)

Is it really that hard to believe penetration is a masculine act ?Not at all. I can see why people believe it and can even agree...up to a point.

What I'm saying is that they're not objectively right. All sexual acts are neutral until you add some additional context.

[Birgitta]

If you really think that was my point, I can only...shake my head.... :)
Not at all. I can see why people believe it and can even agree...up to a point.

What I'm saying is that they're not objectively right. All sexual acts are neutral until you add some additional context.

Penetration is the biology of men and therefor masculine, get over it already pff

[loveboof]

its the biology of men !!!!
Biology? You have a penis.

This wouldn't even be an issue if you were some run-of-the-mill, conservative 'soccer mum'. But you are a transgender woman.

It doesn't really make sense to cling to 'traditional' views of gender identity!

[Birgitta]

There is a lot to say for being open minded, but if it means you have to ignore facts doing so, it serves no true purpose only for your own entertainment

[Birgitta]

Biology? You have a penis.

This wouldn't even be an issue if you were some run-of-the-mill, conservative 'soccer mum'. But you are a transgender woman.

It doesn't really make sense to cling to 'traditional' views of gender identity!

im not clinging to traditional views, simply stating facts

[MrsKellyPierce]

Biology? You have a penis.

This wouldn't even be an issue if you were some run-of-the-mill, conservative 'soccer mum'. But you are a transgender woman.

It doesn't really make sense to cling to 'traditional' views of gender identity!
LOVEBOOF stop arguing with delusion...

She's more female than others, because she doesn't use hers in a "masculine" way.

She's better :)

[Birgitta]

It amazes me that you dont even see you guys and girls are discriminating me, because i am a ts woman, im not allowed to share the view on these matters of commen people and commen sense for that matter...

[Birgitta]

LOVEBOOF stop arguing with delusion...

She's more female than others, because she doesn't use hers in a "masculine" way.

She's better :)


I never ever said that, quote me,
Its what you think, and shows yet again you have a hard time with being objective

[MrsKellyPierce]

It amazes me that you dont even see you guys and girls are discriminating me, because i am a ts woman, im not allowed to share the view on these matters of commen people and commen sense for that matter...
No doll you aren't sharing a view - you are judging.

To share a view is to say I prefer this way of life, but accept what others do.

And don't judge.

You are saying your way is better - it's the RIGHT WAY.

And it's masculine any other way.

Much like how crazy Christians do to people constantly.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I never ever said that, quote me,
Its what you think, and shows yet again you have a hard time with being objective
I've been objective..you are taking the victim role once again.

I have been very patient and cordial.

I have stated over and over again what you stated, and then you twist it to your convenience.

Just like it's convenient for you to say that you are more feminine then another ts only for the fact you don't use it.

[nicebrn]

It amazes me that you dont even see you guys and girls are discriminating me, because i am a ts woman, im not allowed to share the view on these matters of commen people and commen sense for that matter...
Not everyone is attacking you or trying to silence you--well, I'm not intentionally doing so. What they're attacking is your claim that your way is the best way or the right way. You think that's an opinion and that's true--but the way you've phrased it also sounds like a moral judgment. Most people tend to react strongly when they're told that they're Doing It Wrong and that it makes them less authentic than the one Doing It Right.

In other words, it ain't what you say, it's what they hear.

Big surprise.

[Birgitta]

No doll you aren't sharing a view - you are judging.

To share a view is to say I prefer this way of life, but accept what others do.

And don't judge.

You are saying your way is better - it's the RIGHT WAY.

And it's masculine any other way.

Much like how crazy Christians do to people constantly.


I never said my way is the right way...
You are projecting your issues with the world on me,
Thats not being fair

[loveboof]

Look, I wouldn't be a member here if I wasn't attracted to T-girls. At the same time I don't consider myself to be gay because masculinity does nothing for me!

So I can understand where you are coming from. In one sense it is very easy to know what masculinity is. Everyone knows what it is to be manly. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to define it if you abandon traditional gender identities (which you have to as a transgendered woman).

This is exactly what Kelly was saying! Just see sex for what it is, and don't over analyse it...

[MrsKellyPierce]

I never said my way is the right way...
You are projecting your issues with the world on me,
Thats not being fair
Go back and read what your type Birgitta...

You are hilarious.

[Birgitta]

I've been objective..you are taking the victim role once again.

I have been very patient and cordial.

I have stated over and over again what you stated, and then you twist it to your convenience.

Just like it's convenient for you to say that you are more feminine then another ts only for the fact you don't use it.


I never said i was more feminine then others, you are making this stuff up...if you cant deal with the fact penetration is a masculine act coz of biology, and not only that, then just dont do it

Whats next? Is your penis feminine too ?

Talking about self delusion

[MrsKellyPierce]

I never said i was more feminine then others, you are making this stuff up...if you cant deal with the fact penetration is a masculine act coz of biology, and not only that, then just dont do it

Whats next? Is your penis feminine too ?

Talking about self delusion
Show me where in biology it says this?

I believe anatomy it says a penis is masculine and a vagina is feminine.

There's no in between. (or convenience)

Whether you use it or not.

[Birgitta]

Not everyone is attacking you or trying to silence you--well, I'm not intentionally doing so. What they're attacking is your claim that your way is the best way or the right way. You think that's an opinion and that's true--but the way you've phrased it also sounds like a moral judgment. Most people tend to react strongly when they're told that they're Doing It Wrong and that it makes them less authentic than the one Doing It Right.

In other words, it ain't what you say, it's what they hear.

Big surprise.


Its no suprise, but honey, i can say i am biologically female just to make me happy and blame people that tell me im wrong of being narrow minded, but thats not right, sorry

[Birgitta]

Show me where in biology it says this?

I would almost.start suspecting now that you are a natural blond like me ! Lol

[MrsKellyPierce]

I would almost.start suspecting now that you are a natural blond like me ! Lol
And what about female doms that use strap ons and other devices..Lesbians also use the terms top and bottom :)

[Birgitta]

So I can understand where you are coming from. In one sense it is very easy to know what masculinity is. Everyone knows what it is to be manly. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to define it if you abandon traditional gender identities (which you have to as a transgendered woman

to abandon traditional gender identity would mean abandonning myself...
You just dont believe i was born a woman, in brain, heart and soul...having to be ts in itself is abandonning who and what i am, but i have no choice but to accept the fact !

[loveboof]

It's not nice to feel like people are ganging up on you, so I'm sorry for that. I'm only trying to discuss this with you.

I don't think your argument is really sustainable given your view of your own gender, but you are right. Biology is biology. I just dont understand how you can see it in such a simplistic way as a transgender woman.

I am a man. I cannot claim to understand what your position is, which is why I'm interested in hearing it from you. I'm sorry if it's made you uncomfortable :)

[Birgitta]

Look, I wouldn't be a member here if I wasn't attracted to T-girls. At the same time I don't consider myself to be gay because masculinity does nothing for me!

So I can understand where you are coming from. In one sense it is very easy to know what masculinity is. Everyone knows what it is to be manly. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to define it if you abandon traditional gender identities (which you have to as a transgendered woman).

This is exactly what Kelly was saying! Just see sex for what it is, and don't over analyse it...


And what about female doms that use strap ons and other devices..Lesbians also use the terms top and bottom :)

Its a masculine act for females with a strap on too ! My point is that you are telling the world what you are doing is commen and normal, but its actually very typical for the gay lesian transgender and bdsm fetish community, not the majority of the straight community...

[Birgitta]

It's not nice to feel like people are ganging up on you, so I'm sorry for that. I'm only trying to discuss this with you.

I don't think your argument is really sustainable given your view of your own gender, but you are right. Biology is biology. I just dont understand how you can see it in such a simplistic way as a transgender woman.

I am a man. I cannot claim to understand what your position is, which is why I'm interested in hearing it from you. I'm sorry if it's made you uncomfortable :)

Hi it does not make me uncomfortable, it really suprises me so little of the girls here actually understand what i am saying, for me thats a mystery, truely...

Why is my argument not sustainable given my view on my own gender ?

[Birgitta]

Just like it's convenient for you to say that you are more feminine then another ts only for the fact you don't use it.

I never claimed im more feminine then you, sexually i am more feminine yes, thats obvious, but there are other ways that you could perhaps easely be more feminine then i am...

I wonder though...seriously and i hope you reply...
How could it be convenient for me to claim i am more feminine (i did not do so) but i dont see why it would be convenient for me, look around, most guys and girls feel attacked offended, it would have been way more convenient for me if i did not write here at all. Still i think its nice, but its not convenient in any way..

[loveboof]

Why is my argument not sustainable given my view on my own gender ?
Well because you've resorted to plain biology for your reasoning behind what it is to be masculine, and at the same time decided that there is more to your own gender identity than just the biological.

[Birgitta]

Well because you've resorted to plain biology for your reasoning behind what it is to be masculine, and at the same time decided that there is more to your own gender identity than just the biological.

No my gender identity is biological, just like yours, its not social, psychological, its biological...i follow my true self, my instincts, my intuition, my heart, my desires etc

it seems that you have trouble imagining im not doing anything coz i think i must, or because i think its feminine, i am only true to myself..

Perhaps for you hard to imagine one can turn out this way..
But look around you, how many woman are feminine too? Both sexual and psychological...despite emancipation btw..
So it is not strange at all lol

What you are asking me is: how can you be natural, when you are unnatural...?
I would answer you my gender id is natural, my body too, but they simply dont match

[rabiddoug]

Transgendered people and homosexual people have always occurred in the human species. There is growing, undeniable evidence it is a genetic trait.

THUS, TRANSGENDERISM AND HOMOSEXUALITY ARE NATURAL!!!! They are distinctly in the minority, but so are left-handed people and redheads. They are not mutations. They are not behavioral aberrations due to trauma or abuse. They exist firmly in the oeuvre of human biology.

Thus, there is a Darwinian reason that you, dear troubled Birgitta, and you, mouth-watering delectable gorgeous Kelly, exist. Evolution found an advantage to the species in transexuals and homosexuals.

Ultimately, there is no scientific basis for classifying any sexual behavior undertaken for pleasure as either masculine or feminine. The incredible diversity of human sexual behavior and the very gene pool itself argue against it.

I would like to propose that masculinity and femininity are defined by behavior OUTSIDE the bedroom. I'm 41. I am a straight, masculine man. I have never had sexual contact with a male. I'm 6'4" and 240lbs. I lift, exercise, and run - I am, frankly, a stud :). I am attracted to transexual women as well as genetic women, but I am also a husband of 15 years to a wonderful woman who bore me two children. I am completely devoted to them - to provide for them, protect them, and give my family leadership. My wife cares for us and nurtures us.

Getting SRS is okay. Liking and using your penis is okay, too.

The world is imperfect and full of suffering. Do your utmost to add nothing but acceptance, understanding and positive living to it.

[loveboof]

No my gender identity is biological, just like yours, its not social, psychological, its biological...i follow my true self, my instincts, my intuition, my heart, my desires etc

it seems that you have trouble imagining im not doing anything coz i think i must, or because i think its feminine, i am only true to myself..

Perhaps for you hard to imagine one can turn out this way..
But look around you, how many woman are feminine too? Both sexual and psychological...despite emancipation btw..
So it is not strange at all lol

What you are asking me is: how can you be natural, when you are unnatural...?
I would answer you my gender id is natural, my body too, but they simply dont match
I dont want to be unkind, but what you just said makes no sense.

I am not asking you anything other than to explain your opinion. Please don't put words in my mouth.

You believe you have one biological identity, and a second 'true self'?

Earlier you defined something as masculine because of the biology behind it's action. Given that you believe there is more than just the biology behind your feelings of self, it's baffling to me that you cannot accept there being more than just 'the biology' behind a sense of masculinity.

______

@ rabiddoug, while I agree with the jist of what you're saying, you've slightly confused natural selection with evolution. Evolution does not find advantages in anything, it is simply the process of change.

[muh_muh]

Thats what i mean with traditional, i like to date a leader, not a follower, not a man with a submissive personality, but one thats able to boss me around :) that is mentally and physically stronger then me, when it comes to an arguement at least, thats what i enjoy :) and desire in life

brilliant... spending your life to become a woman only to set womanhood back a solid 150 years
your victorian ideas of gender roles have absolutely no place in this century

[Ineeda SM]

brilliant... spending your life to become a woman only to set womanhood back a solid 150 years
your victorian ideas of gender roles have absolutely no place in this century

Brigitta is enjoying who she is and wants to be. She isn't setting womanhood back. Most women like a strong (Take charge) lover. So fucking what? It's her choice. Leave Brigitta alone.

[zorga]

Kelly said things well. [read only her first post and answering on it]

[nonnonnon]

kelly knows how to get a lot of replies :p

[blckhaze]

well stated my kkk friend.

[naughtyson]

kelly, i remember when you weren't the biggest fan of bottoming. when do you think that changed?

[MrsKellyPierce]

kelly, i remember when you weren't the biggest fan of bottoming. when do you think that changed?
When I found someone I love...I didn't bottom for anyone due to that.

I topped only - I didn't want to give my ass up to just anyone.

[LaCosa]

I dont want to be unkind, but what you just said makes no sense.

I am not asking you anything other than to explain your opinion. Please don't put words in my mouth.

You believe you have one biological identity, and a second 'true self'?

Earlier you defined something as masculine because of the biology behind it's action. Given that you believe there is more than just the biology behind your feelings of self, it's baffling to me that you cannot accept there being more than just 'the biology' behind a sense of masculinity.

______

@ rabiddoug, while I agree with the jist of what you're saying, you've slightly confused natural selection with evolution. Evolution does not find advantages in anything, it is simply the process of change.



You know, for centuries, many centuries, the Eastern Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Western Latin Catholic Church (aka Roman Catholic) fought over and stayed divide over a term. It came down to a linguistic problem and how two cultures understood a term differently because the term carried different connotations in different cultures.

There is a lesson in that. Even two individual persons can talk past one another because both are are using a term and each one understanding the meaning or connotation of that term differently.

I think the term "biology" is more problematic and unhelpful than helpful in this discussion. I would suggest the word be dropped out of the rest of the conversation. Looking through the biological lens is not the only way to view the world anyways. Look at abstract painter Picasso. What's wrong with looking at the world through the lens of an artist or an abstract artist?

Birgitta is stuck on this point of what is "natural" vs "unnatural" and she's understanding the term biology to carry the connotation of "natural."

Someone must have told her before - or more than once - that she is unnatural. Someone taunting her and being cruel or uncharitable to her.

You don't seem to be using the term biology with that connotation attached (neither do I). You're using the term as it suggests the study of life systems and what is organic.

Most biologist have abandoned the concept of genetic determinism. So, I don't even see biology as really that applicable to this thread. The ideas Kelly brought up in this thread, through her initial post, are really more applicable to social science and psychology.

And people or transsexuals should not overly frustrate themselves by thinking the "natural sciences" (also referred to as the hard sciences) have to imply "natural." Plenty of unnatural synthetic things have been made in science (mainly chemistry) that have been beneficial for man. Plastic is an easy one to think of. We all use that. And biologist have been crossing genes between species in laboratories (artificial selection). If I remember correctly didn't they put the glowing genes of a jellyfish into a monkey, and the monkey glows in the dark or something like that? So, I wouldn't place all this emphasis on "natural."





(loveboof, you are correct, about evolution. Natural selection works on the individual, evolution or descent with modification works on the species, but evolution has no mind, its a mindless process, it is algorithmic, and being mindless does not have a care about what is beneficial for a species)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg/300px-Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg

Brothel painting by Picasso

[Birgitta]

And not to be mean, but your yourself don't look like you are that far transitioned Birgitta to pick on that other girl.

Again those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

And I typically find the ones that are in such disregard and judgement of others are either crossdressers wanting to be a girl (fantasizing)

OR

They are the ones that have body dysphoria and not transsexuals.

And then end up unhappy after the change.

I overlooked this one, its funny lol.
Well i dont want to be a woman, i had been full time a long while and never touched lingery, so i said to myself, what a bad tgirl you are, a tgirl without wearing lingery isnt a tgirl lol, and i enjoy it now, like it very much..

Its true i have body dysforia, especiallt when it comes to my looks, i dont like and am bothered by my masculine features, and yes, i call them masculine lol

I dont regret my transition, it saved my life.

[Birgitta]

You know, for centuries, many centuries, the Eastern Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Western Latin Catholic Church (aka Roman Catholic) fought over and stayed divide over a term. It came down to a linguistic problem and how two cultures understood a term differently because the term carried different connotations in different cultures.

There is a lesson in that. Even two individual persons can talk past one another because both are are using a term and each one understanding the meaning or connotation of that term differently.

I think the term "biology" is more problematic and unhelpful than helpful in this discussion. I would suggest the word be dropped out of the rest of the conversation. Looking through the biological lens is not the only way to view the world anyways. Look at abstract painter Picasso. What's wrong with looking at the world through the lens of an artist or an abstract artist?

Birgitta is stuck on this point of what is "natural" vs "unnatural" and she's understanding the term biology to carry the connotation of "natural."

Someone must have told her before - or more than once - that she is unnatural. Someone taunting her and being cruel or uncharitable to her.

You don't seem to be using the term biology with that connotation attached (neither do I). You're using the term as it suggests the study of life systems and what is organic.

Most biologist have abandoned the concept of genetic determinism. So, I don't even see biology as really that applicable to this thread. The ideas Kelly brought up in this thread, through her initial post, are really more applicable to social science and psychology.

And people or transsexuals should not overly frustrate themselves by thinking the "natural sciences" (also referred to as the hard sciences) have to imply "natural." Plenty of unnatural synthetic things have been made in science (mainly chemistry) that have been beneficial for man. Plastic is an easy one to think of. We all use that. And biologist have been crossing genes between species in laboratories (artificial selection). If I remember correctly didn't they put the glowing genes of a jellyfish into a monkey, and the monkey glows in the dark or something like that? So, I wouldn't place all this emphasis on "natural."





(loveboof, you are correct, about evolution. Natural selection works on the individual, evolution or descent with modification works on the species, but evolution has no mind, its a mindless process, it is algorithmic, and being mindless does not have a care about what is beneficial for a species)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg/300px-Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg

Brothel painting by Picasso

In another thread you were all over me with your science and here you take the artists point of view, you are not consistent...

[Birgitta]

Im not stuck on natural vs unnatural,
I dont believe twoman are unnatural or that what top tgirls do is unnatural...but it is masculine, end of discussion if you ask me...

[Birgitta]

I dont want to be unkind, but what you just said makes no sense.

I am not asking you anything other than to explain your opinion. Please don't put words in my mouth.

You believe you have one biological identity, and a second 'true self'?

Earlier you defined something as masculine because of the biology behind it's action. Given that you believe there is more than just the biology behind your feelings of self, it's baffling to me that you cannot accept there being more than just 'the biology' behind a sense of masculinity.

______

@ rabiddoug, while I agree with the jist of what you're saying, you've slightly confused natural selection with evolution. Evolution does not find advantages in anything, it is simply the process of change.

Im not going to repeat myself anymore.

[Birgitta]

Brigitta is enjoying who she is and wants to be. She isn't setting womanhood back. Most women like a strong (Take charge) lover. So fucking what? It's her choice. Leave Brigitta alone.

Yes but thats what they dont want to see, that most woman like a strong lover...and not a submissive guy in and outside the bedroom, they are too "open minded" to acknowledge that lol

[Birgitta]

Also I think its more feminine to have a pussy... then to have a penis... it does not tell anyone anything about if your character or personality is feminine or masculine... I know post op woman... the only thing feminine about them is their vagina... still that vagina is more feminine then my cock... if you see my point...

Its not moral judgement... its just fact

[Birgitta]

You believe you have one biological identity, and a second 'true self'?


allright once more then... I believe my biological identity is my true self...
If that self also excists outside of the body is an entirely different discussion...

I personally think it does. Still that does not change the fact that some things are feminine and others masculine...they are both spiritual, mental, and physical/natural laws.... we are all a mixture of both...

But when you are a masculine man that bottoms... bottoming does not suddenly become masculine...It is a feminine aspect of his sexuality...sometimes his personality too, but not necessarily.

[AmyDaly]

Also I think its more feminine to have a pussy... then to have a penis... it does not tell anyone anything about if your character or personality is feminine or masculine... I know post op woman... the only thing feminine about them is their vagina... still that vagina is more feminine then my cock... if you see my point...

Its not moral judgement... its just fact

Actually its not a fact. Femininity and masculinity are a product of culture. Many different cultures see femininity and masculinity differently than we do in the US. It is also constantly changing what we consider masculine and feminine as we progress as a society. At one time, it was masculine just to have a job. Women aren't even allowed to have jobs in some cultures. Thats a mans thing to them.

[catherinefan]

No doll you aren't sharing a view - you are judging.

To share a view is to say I prefer this way of life, but accept what others do.

And don't judge.

You are saying your way is better - it's the RIGHT WAY.

And it's masculine any other way.

Much like how crazy Christians do to people constantly.


Very well said, Kelly!

For goodness sake, Birgitta, If you don't like that "thing" between your legs, get rid of it.
But stop trying to convert girls that are perfectly comfortable with their treasure and........enjoy using it.

[AmyDaly]

Very well said, Kelly!

For goodness sake, Birgitta, If you don't like that "thing" between your legs, get rid of it. But stop trying to convert girls that are perfectly comfortable withe their treasure and enjoy using it.

As Kelly as said before, Brigitta is a very closed minded person. One she progresses through transition, she will open up hopefully and see that not everything is black and white. Not everything is Yes and No. I was almost as closed minded as her at one point long ago.

[Birgitta]

Actually its not a fact. Femininity and masculinity are a product of culture. Many different cultures see femininity and masculinity differently than we do in the US. It is also constantly changing what we consider masculine and feminine as we progress as a society. At one time, it was masculine just to have a job. Women aren't even allowed to have jobs in some cultures. Thats a mans thing to them.

sigh lol

[Birgitta]

Very well said, Kelly!

For goodness sake, Birgitta, If you don't like that "thing" between your legs, get rid of it.

I dont hate it...or dislike it... its one of my MASCULINE features that I have no real problem with...

[AmyDaly]

sigh lol
Is that not right? Over here its not really masculine or a feminine thing to have a job. But at one point it was the man's job to make the money. That has changed, hasn't it? Its still like that in some places. Is that not true?

[Birgitta]

Is that not right? Over here its not really masculine or a feminine thing to have a job. But at one point it was the man's job to make the money. That has changed, hasn't it? Its still like that in some places. Is that not true?

Yes thats true, STILL look around you... how many woman work fulltime jobs and concentrate on their career... the majority of woman are not like that...
So naturally... one can say that wanting to stay at home to take care of the kids and the household... is more feminine then going out and focussing on a career...Its not just sociaty that dictates woman should not have jobs... there are underlying natural laws that caused it...

there are exceptions to this rule... and that does not mean thats unnatural...its very natural... but an exception nevertheless...

Sociaty in fact is dictating now that woman SHOULD work for a career... btw
This has more to do with moral views then anything.

[AmyDaly]

Yes thats true, STILL look around you... how many woman work fulltime jobs and concentrate on their career... the majority of woman are not like that... I don't even know where to begin with you. You have a lot of work to do as far as your outlook on life goes. Its sad to read stuff like this. Not even going to bother lol.

[Birgitta]

I don't even know where to begin with you. You have a lot of work to do as far as your outlook on life goes. Its sad to read stuff like this. Not even going to bother lol.

Thats probably because you were a normal male before your transition. You think every woman is like you...

well no!
sorry

[dderek123]

Great job. Nice OP. It addresses the opinions of plenty of retards around here.

[AmyDaly]

Thats probably because you were a normal male before your transition. You think every woman is like you...

well no!
sorry

You are hopeless. You don't know what I was like growing up. I know what its like to be picked on, called a faggot and beat up while growing up. So if thats what normal is, then you are right. My thing is that I KNOW not everyone is like me. I know people are different and don't fit into categories like you put them in. and that is your problem you make all these judgement about people and things and have a shitty outlook on life. You are wrong in so many ways, you help set society back 100 years. Disgusting.

[Birgitta]

You are hopeless. You don't know what I was like growing up. I know what its like to be picked on, called a faggot and beat up while growing up. So if thats what normal is, then you are right. That is your problem you make all these judgement about people and things and have a shitty outlook on life. You are wrong in so many ways, you help set society back 100 years. Disgusting.

I dont know you personally... I said probably...how can I know for sure?

But tell me then....you think masculinity and femininity are a social construction?

So why are the feminine looking girls here more popular then the masculine one's?

because of moral laws? lol

[AmyDaly]

I dont know you personally... I said probably...how can I know for sure?

But tell me then....you think masculinity and femininity are a social construction?

So why are the feminine looking girls here more popular then the masculine one's?

because of moral laws? lol

Moral laws? WTF you talking about? There are plenty gay boys out there throwing on a wig and pretending to be a TS and the guys LOVE THEM. Crossdressers actually sell pretty well. Also, feminine looking girls are MORE popular because most of the fans of TS Porn are STRAIGHT. They like WOMEN. But that doesn't mean that the CD's aren't popular by any means.

[Birgitta]

Moral laws? WTF you talking about? There are plenty gay boys out there throwing on a wig and pretending to be a TS and the guys LOVE THEM. Crossdressers actually sell pretty well. Also, feminine looking girls are MORE popular because most of the fans of TS Porn are STRAIGHT. They like WOMEN. But that doesn't mean that the CD's aren't popular by any means.

So more feminine looking girls attract straight guys right? Just like GG attract straight guys...and most straight guys dont want to be buttfucked by their woman...let alone with an ACTUAL PENIS! lol
Those men are bisexual...i think thats just a fact... its not fiction lol

[AmyDaly]

So more feminine looking girls attract straight guys right? Just like GG attract straight guys...and most straight guys dont want to be buttfucked by their woman... lol
Those men are bisexual...i think thats just a fact... its not fiction lol Well, the definition of bisexuality is this: "Bisexuality is sexual behavior or an orientation involving physical and/or romantic attraction to both males and females, especially in regards to men and women". So If they are into women and want to date a transwomen and have sex with them, but have no attraction to men, by definition, they are not bisexual unless you are saying a transwoman is a man. Pansexual would be a little more appropriate for someone who likes to categorize people and doesn't see a TS person as a man or a woman. I see TS Women as what ever they identify as. I myself, Identify as a woman.

[Birgitta]

Well, the definition of bisexuality is this: "Bisexuality is sexual behavior or an orientation involving physical and/or romantic attraction to both males and females, especially in regards to men and women". So If they are into women and want to date a transwomen and have sex with them, but have no attraction to men, by definition, they are not bisexual unless you are saying a transwoman is a man. Pansexual would be a little more appropriate for someone who likes to categorize people and doesn't see a TS person as a man or a woman. I see TS Women as what ever they identify as. I myself, Identify as a woman.

Ok call it what you will... still topping is masculine and bttming feminine,
You are a very feminine looking girl, you may have a very feminine character also... but you topping woman isnt feminine..same goes for lesbian woman that top other girls....but that doesnt mean its bad...on the contrary... a lot a tlovers like that kind of stuff...

In the gay and lesbian community we see a lot of men that are naturally feminine, and woman that are naturally masculine...also

There is nothing wrong with that... its great there is such a diversity..

Still it is seen more in the gay lesbian transgender bdsm community then outside of it

[muh_muh]

Brigitta is enjoying who she is and wants to be. She isn't setting womanhood back. Most women like a strong (Take charge) lover. So fucking what? It's her choice. Leave Brigitta alone.

i dont know what backwards ass part of the world you live in but over here in europe women fought very hard to be equals and happily most (highly educated) women look for an equal in a relationship too

additionally most domineering men in actuallity are the weakest of their kind

[loveboof]

two individual persons can talk past one another because both are are using a term and each one understanding the meaning or connotation of that term differently.

I think the term "biology" is more problematic and unhelpful than helpful in this discussion. I would suggest the word be dropped out of the rest of the conversation. Looking through the biological lens is not the only way to view the world anyways. Look at abstract painter Picasso. What's wrong with looking at the world through the lens of an artist or an abstract artist?

I would like to agree with you, but it took about 10 pages to get Birgitta to commit to what it is that defines masculinity. Her answer was simply 'biology'.

So I don't think we can just overlook the term in this conversation.

Part of the reason why I wanted to pin down a definition was exactly because I felt a lot of us were talking at crossed purposes - but it opened up a whole new can of worms.. lol

[Birgitta]

i dont know what backwards ass part of the world you live in but over here in europe women fought very hard to be equals and happily most (highly educated) women look for an equal in a relationship too

additionally most domineering men in actuallity are the weakest of their kind

I live in europe... You misunderstand me...if I am dominated its MY CHOICE, I am very much so a feminist... but being a feminist does not mean you have to embrace a lifestyle that does not match your nature, the right to obey your nature is also feministic... and more woman are claiming that right nowadays

Just like there are a lot of men out there that are done with playing the dominant guy in the bedroom for their woman and turn to a tsgirl...

There are guys out there that simply want to be dominant and masculine, it does not mean they are less loving to their partner....

Its really funny that you are all saying Im closed minded but really it seems that you are closed minded yourselves

[Birgitta]

I would like to agree with you, but it took about 10 pages to get Birgitta to commit to what it is that defines masculinity. Her answer was simply 'biology'.

So I don't think we can just overlook the term in this conversation.

Part of the reason why I wanted to pin down a definition was exactly because I felt a lot of us were talking at crossed purposes - but it opened up a whole new can of worms.. lol

Well lets not start with biology then... but with our collective unconsciousness..

| = ?
0 = ?

Masculine or feminine... if you were asked?

[loveboof]

I believe my biological identity is my true self...

Still that does not change the fact that some things are feminine and others masculine...they are both spiritual, mental, and physical/natural laws.... we are all a mixture of both...

You best answered my question in response to someone else when you said:


Well i dont want to be a woman....
i dont like and am bothered by my masculine features...

This perfectly explains to me the rationale behind your opinions. They are contrary because you are still battling with a dichotomy of views.

In addition to what Amy Daly said, modern standards of beauty are not absolute laws! In medieval times fat women had desirable figures because it was thought to show them to be healthy and without disease. Today, a slim figure is more classically desirable.

These are changing tastes and standards. As I said before there was nothing inherently un-masculine to receive anal sex as a man in Ancient Greece. Our cultural and moral views are in constant flux...

[Birgitta]

You best answered my question in response to someone else when you said:

This perfectly explains to me the rationale behind your opinions. They are contrary because you are still battling with a dichotomy of views.

In addition to what Amy Daly said, modern standards of beauty are not absolute laws! In medieval times fat women had desirable figures because it was thought to show them to be healthy and without disease. Today, a slim figure is more classically desirable.

These are changing tastes and standards. As I said before there was nothing inherently un-masculine to receive anal sex as a man in Ancient Greece. Our cultural and moral views are in constant flux...

I know too little about ancient greece to comment on that... would have liked to but I cant...

In medieval times being fat meant prosperity..just like fat woman were believed to be more fertile in ancient times..

That skinny woman are fashion models now I think is still a product of the masculinisation of woman by sociaty... I think most men dont like their woman so skinny... its less feminine...

I am a thin girl, and have a more masculine figure then feminine... too bad... but still its a fact lol

[Birgitta]

This perfectly explains to me the rationale behind your opinions. They are contrary because you are still battling with a dichotomy of views.


You want me to accept and view the male features of my body as femine? Arent you just asking too much of me?
Im not asking you that much...Im not asking anyone that much... lol

If someone thinks I look like a girly boy... Im not going to call that person narrowminded ... ??

[Birgitta]

You quoted me... but I meant... I dont like to be a TSwoman...instead of woman, huge difference..
But If I could choose, Im not sure if I would like to be a woman or a man... I think a man but Im not sure :)

[loveboof]

You want me to accept and view the male features of my body as femine? Arent you just asking too much of me?
Im not asking you that much...Im not asking anyone that much... lol

How you view yourself and your body are completely up to you. I wouldn't want to impose my thoughts about this onto someone else.

What I'm asking you to do is consider an action as not inherently male or female.

But to be honest, it doesn't matter to me. You can hold whatever opinion you want, my only issue was that it doesn't really make sense as a transgender woman to hold such a limited view on gender identity.

And you could be right, but unfortunately your view has implications for all the other t-girls on here.

I think it would be pretty hypocritical of me to be sexually attracted to t-girls, and at the same time consider them to be unnatural in some capacity. (I know a lot of guilt loving guys out there are happy to dwell in such a delusional state, but I am comfortable with myself and my feelings)

[MrsKellyPierce]

This thread is still going..

[Birgitta]

How you view yourself and your body are completely up to you. I wouldn't want to impose my thoughts about this onto someone else.

What I'm asking you to do is consider an action as not inherently male or female.

But to be honest, it doesn't matter to me. You can hold whatever opinion you want, my only issue was that it doesn't really make sense as a transgender woman to hold such a limited view on gender identity.

And you could be right, but unfortunately your view has implications for all the other t-girls on here.

I think it would be pretty hypocritical of me to be sexually attracted to t-girls, and at the same time consider them to be unnatural in some capacity. (I know a lot of guilt loving guys out there are happy to dwell in such a delusional state, but I am comfortable with myself and my feelings)

Hey i did not say anyone is unnatural here, nature has created us all different, and also a straight guy usually has masculine or feminine features, sometimes in looks, sometimesin personality, which is not only great, i think its a necessaty if you want to become whole as a human being... And how this balancr is achieved is different for everyone...

[Birgitta]

This thread is still going..

Its your thread lol

[rabiddoug]

I dont want to be unkind, but what you just said makes no sense.

I am not asking you anything other than to explain your opinion. Please don't put words in my mouth.

You believe you have one biological identity, and a second 'true self'?

Earlier you defined something as masculine because of the biology behind it's action. Given that you believe there is more than just the biology behind your feelings of self, it's baffling to me that you cannot accept there being more than just 'the biology' behind a sense of masculinity.

______

@ rabiddoug, while I agree with the jist of what you're saying, you've slightly confused natural selection with evolution. Evolution does not find advantages in anything, it is simply the process of change.
No, I'm not confused :) - I'm aware the two terms are not interchangeable. But my sentence is still correct, and accurate to my intentions, using the term "evolution", i.e., evolution, as a process of change, found an advantage in it.

[loveboof]

No, I'm not confused :) - I'm aware the two terms are not interchangeable. But my sentence is still correct, and accurate to my intentions, using the term "evolution", i.e., evolution, as a process of change, found an advantage in it.
Evolution does not always equate to advantageous changes though. It literally is just the process involved.

Natural Selection does imply advantageous traits get passed on, but only traits which offer an advantage for survival and 'breeding'.

I'm sure you understand the terms, it's just the way you worded it which could be misleading... :)

[muh_muh]

I live in europe... You misunderstand me...if I am dominated its MY CHOICE, I am very much so a feminist

no youre not
being submissive in bed is one thing but you also mentioned being submissive in arguments and other general aspects of a relationship and im sorry that just ass backwards and not the least bit feminist

[LaCosa]

Oh sweet Jesus.


In another thread you were all over me with your science and here you take the artists point of view, you are not consistent...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg/300px-Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg



Fuck science. Like it for helping make your life easier (e.g., microwaves etc.) or for making crops more productive or for all its great medical applications.

Other than that fuck science. Especially fuck biology. Live your life as you will and in what way you truly believe is best for you. If that includes harming people through serial killing or forcible rape then society will use the judicial system to judge you and incarcerate you. Aside from that live out your life. Not everyone is going to agree with us. I was raised Catholic surrounded by Protestants and there are Muslims living under theocracy (support it) around the world. You have Buddhists in Thailand that living under a monarchy where it is against the law for anyone to speak negatively against the king. Whether religious, political, or sexual people will not always see eye to eye on things. I only have to look at U.S. politics played out as two rival sports teams demonizing one another.

If I had my way I'd by gifted in art - especially drawing and painting. I would frequently walk through the art building/college on my university campus in between class. I'd look at the art posted on the walls of the hall and try to get a glimpse of those in dance classes. To a certain extent I envy those in the arts.

I realize we are in an age were everyone falls to their knees and worships science. During the 1930's physics was the most prestigious field. Now today it seems biology has the most prestigious spotlight. The greatest, recent progress has been in the area of applied sciences, however, like computer engineering etc.

What you term "biology" I term gender. I think gender has more to do with psychology. I wouldn't kiss the science of biology's ass to much. It's not all that. I mean it's great - so are beautiful Russian women but they're not the only women on earth.

There is a lot of misunderstanding in the lay world about biology, evolution, genes and so forth anyways. Just be you.

Look at Picasso's abstract painting of women in a brothel. You know how a biologist might approach "understanding" women in a brothel? It will be different than a social scientist like a sociologist, but both will use statistical science. The biologist will need funding and might end up with a small sample size, say 100 female prostitutes (they will represent all prostitutes around the world). The biologist will come up with some hypothesis and find an experiment to use to see if his hypothesis should be accepted or rejected. Maybe he'll take hair or blood samples, isolate some of the genes in the cells, measure physical anatomical parts of each prostitute's body, and if 60 out of 100 of the women show genetic markers that are similar along with having larger feet than the female mean (average), bing bam, the biologist has found found "significant" genetic evidence for female prostitution.

You prefer that sterile method of approaching life than the lenses through which artists look at life?

[ARMANIXXX]

Agian im not saying it makes her personality less feminine, i said that i think penetration is a masculine act, and still think im right.

I think you missed the point of what Kelly was rightfully saying....it's just sex

TS girl penetrating isn't any kind of act other than a sex act......it's just sex.
To many people make it all out to be like its some sort of ritualization process, or some ceremonial procedure....like if you top and a man bottoms, some sort of baptism light shines through the window.

relax.....it's just sex

[Birgitta]

Oh sweet Jesus.




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg/300px-Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon.jpg



Fuck science. Like it for helping make your life easier (e.g., microwaves etc.) or for making crops more productive or for all its great medical applications.

Other than that fuck science. Especially fuck biology. Live your life as you will and in what way you truly believe is best for you. If that includes harming people through serial killing or forcible rape then society will use the judicial system to judge you and incarcerate you. Aside from that live out your life. Not everyone is going to agree with us. I was raised Catholic surrounded by Protestants and there are Muslims living under theocracy (support it) around the world. You have Buddhists in Thailand that living under a monarchy where it is against the law for anyone to speak negatively against the king. Whether religious, political, or sexual people will not always see eye to eye on things. I only have to look at U.S. politics played out as two rival sports teams demonizing one another.

If I had my way I'd by gifted in art - especially drawing and painting. I would frequently walk through the art building/college on my university campus in between class. I'd look at the art posted on the walls of the hall and try to get a glimpse of those in dance classes. To a certain extent I envy those in the arts.

I realize we are in an age were everyone falls to their knees and worships science. During the 1930's physics was the most prestigious field. Now today it seems biology has the most prestigious spotlight. The greatest, recent progress has been in the area of applied sciences, however, like computer engineering etc.

What you term "biology" I term gender. I think gender has more to do with psychology. I wouldn't kiss the science of biology's ass to much. It's not all that. I mean it's great - so are beautiful Russian women but they're not the only women on earth.

There is a lot of misunderstanding in the lay world about biology, evolution, genes and so forth anyways. Just be you.

Look at Picasso's abstract painting of women in a brothel. You know how a biologist might approach "understanding" women in a brothel? It will be different than a social scientist like a sociologist, but both will use statistical science. The biologist will need funding and might end up with a small sample size, say 100 female prostitutes (they will represent all prostitutes around the world). The biologist will come up with some hypothesis and find an experiment to use to see if his hypothesis should be accepted or rejected. Maybe he'll take hair or blood samples, isolate some of the genes in the cells, measure physical anatomical parts of each prostitute's body, and if 60 out of 100 of the women show genetic markers that are similar along with having larger feet than the female mean (average), bing bam, the biologist has found found "significant" genetic evidence for female prostitution.

You prefer that sterile method of approaching life than the lenses through which artists look at life?

No I dont...I am a mad woman, but Im aware of that.. so I try to defend myself in different more effective ways
Still I think a lot of tgirls here and their lovers are bullshitting us but thats my personal opinion :) lol

Ok then...
Let me tell you what I really believe and even KNOW...

cause you seem to deserve it... this is for LaCosa lol any comments others make about it... I will not respond...

I believe Gender is HOLY.. my gender identity is Holy and was assigned by God/Divinity, whatever you call it... its like my function... I need to obey my nature, just like when you have a certain talent, it feels as if you are asked to develop it...I think the purpose of life is to obey the will of God... this is not a religion, or moral, if your soul tells you to drink your lovers pee, then drink it :)
See where it leads you ;)

xxx
Birgitta

[Birgitta]

no youre not
being submissive in bed is one thing but you also mentioned being submissive in arguments and other general aspects of a relationship and im sorry that just ass backwards and not the least bit feminist

Pffff I really must defend everything I say right?
I will only date men that have the ability and intelligence to judge my behavior so that when they correct me, its not just good for him, but good for me too.

[muh_muh]

its really quite amazing how twisted your world view and your self image is
or rather it would be if it werent as saddening

[Birgitta]

its really quite amazing how twisted your world view and your self image is
or rather it would be if it werent as saddening

Eeeehm
You are calling me twisted.. I am here coz of a birth defect... what is your excuse lol!!!!!!!

xx
Birgitta

[fred41]

I wouldn't get too caught up in what "most people" (or 99.9%..like people seem to love to say) do in the bedroom. In reality most people are rarely completely open about what they do in the bedroom...and almost never candid about what they'd really like to do...one of the many reasons so many couples have stale sex lives.



....good thread. Where's Nicole? :)

[BLKGSXR]

here we go again smh

[Ineeda SM]

i dont know what backwards ass part of the world you live in but over here in europe women fought very hard to be equals and happily most (highly educated) women look for an equal in a relationship too

additionally most domineering men in actuallity are the weakest of their kind

Who are you to dictate what being a feminist is or should be? Women here in America have fought for their equal rights for many years. But they can still prefer a strong (Take charge) lover, who is intellectually her equal, and treats her with total respect and loving kindness. We are not talking about a guy who will keep her in chains naked in the basement until he wants to cum in her. Damn, let people be who they want to be. It is a personal preference and nothing more.

[Ineeda SM]

Also I think its more feminine to have a pussy... then to have a penis... it does not tell anyone anything about if your character or personality is feminine or masculine... I know post op woman... the only thing feminine about them is their vagina... still that vagina is more feminine then my cock... if you see my point...

Its not moral judgement... its just fact

I have known masculine women, and feminine men. In today's world the differences between them is a personal point of view. Those who argue with you in this thread probably like a strong lover also, but will never admit it. I doubt they want their men to be pussies unless they just like boy-toys for nothing else.

Birgitta, you are as beautiful and feminine as can be. And your fight to choose your own life as a TG and make your own stand, has shown you are a strong independent woman. Don't ever change sweetie.

[DL_NL]

Damn, let people be who they want to be. It is a personal preference and nothing more.
Finally, the voice of reason!

[phobun]

Damn, let people be who they want to be. It is a personal preference and nothing more.


Birgitta, you are as beautiful and feminine as can be. And your fight to choose your own life as a TG and make your own stand, has shown you are a strong independent woman. Don't ever change sweetie.


I agree. Birgitta's viewpoint is totally respectable. People have been cruel to her.

[phobun]

BTW, "top" is gay vernacular. Most women (GG's and transsexuals who are not in the sex industry) would hear "top" and think of something to go with a skirt.

[loveboof]

I have known masculine women, and feminine men. In today's world the differences between them is a personal point of view. Those who argue with you in this thread probably like a strong lover also, but will never admit it.
Although you think you're supporting Birgitta, you have just expressed the opposing view to hers.

She has not been arguing down the 'personal choice' route...

People shouldn't chime into the discussion after just reading the last few pages!



Finally, the voice of reason!

The voice of reason has already been expressed many times in this thread, and ignored... :/

[dgs925]

Oh my god, I can't believe you people are still talking about this shit. Just let birgitta have her backward-ass views, and STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!

[loveboof]

Oh my god, I can't believe you people are still talking about this shit. Just let birgitta have her backward-ass views, and STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!
It's not fair to call her a troll - she is just expressing her opinion.

And what is the point of a forum if not to talk about stuff?

[naughtyson]

kelly...that's actually kinda cute. saved yourself (your butt) for love huh? :)

[Elysian]

Some thoughts...

I am a bi male, and having read Kelly's comments I would say I agree with some of them, but not all. Those I do agree with need clarification.

Kelly:
I'm a top and a bottom..I love being versatile!

Likewise. I'm a 'top' when with a female, but a 'bottom' when with a male. When I'm with a male I imagine myself quite feminine, and I want to explore my feminine side more without being promiscuous or endangering myself.

Kelly:
I personally love sex...Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction. SEX = SATISFACTION!

I believe we all love sex, and would agree that it is meant to be enjoyed, but sex is not just about satisfaction...if anything it should be fulfilling...satisfaction is one of the ingredients to fulfillment, but there are other necessary ingredients to the full recipe for fulfillment. It's a shared experience, thus the endeavour relies on mutual concern for each other's satisfaction, but we can only too easily, at the wrong time, find ourselves having made the wrong sex partner choice. He or she whom took your fancy at the club may turn out to be wholly inadequate to your needs, or you theirs?

[BellaBellucci]

BTW, "top" is gay vernacular. Most women (GG's and transsexuals who are not in the sex industry) would hear "top" and think of something to go with a skirt.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The BDSM community uses the same terminology, and not only does it refer to relationship roles, but also the way in which a person has sex, including GG's with strap-ons.

~BB~

[CaliBoy951]

I'm a top and a bottom..I love being versatile!

Although I must admit I prefer bottoming - only cause I can cum multiple times in a row off that. (milking the prostate)

Topping you can usually cum once and then wait a few minutes then go again.

But I love fucking females and I love fucking a hot muscular bottom :smile:

I personally love sex..and what I have downstairs doesn't make me less feminine.

Or using it make me less feminine.

I never have thought with my dick lol

It certainly hasn't made my PERSONALITY or I would act a lot different!

I think it's so ridiculous some of the statements from the men and transwomen on this site!

The prejudice from both sides is stupid.

Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction.

It doesn't make you who you are!!! SEX = SATISFACTION! And there seems to be a lot of unsatisfied people in this world - due to cheating and hiding things you are into!

I know some of the manliest rugged men who have strong personalities who are total bottoms. Nobody would guess ever they would be bottoms. Keep in mind though you can bottom and still be manly. It's not like he has to start sashaying around the room or some crap!

I know girly gay boys who are total tops! And you would never guess they'd be dominate like that.

Sometimes people are tops, because ANAL SEX isn't enjoyable for them. It hurts! It's not PLEASURABLE FOR THEM. Some people's asses are more sensitive than others.

And a lot of men are bottoms with transwomen, because if they want to fuck - they can just go fuck a pussy?!? So this is something new for them!

I know lots of my stripper friends love strapping on a big strap on and fucking their men in the ass. And the men would never be with a transsexual or a man. But love anal stimulation.

The ass has tons of feel good nerve endings and milking the prostate is the most amazing feeling!

So get off your soapbox that someone is less feminine or less manly because they enjoys something in particular to get them off in the bedroom.

Or it makes them less of a woman!

FOR FUCK SAKES!

I know this is hard for many transwomen to believe..but a lot of men prefer PUSSY over ASS...and they get with a transwoman because she looks every bit of a girl and like some anal play...

I know this is hard for many MEN to believe, but a lot of us don't include sex to define our GENDER. So some transsexuals are bi (myself), lesbian/gay, or straight. Just like any other female!

So why don't you say the same crap to an attractive female who is only into females.

"That you shouldn't of been born if you are only into females."

The audacity of you to tell someone they shouldn't of transitioned if they wont SERVICE you men! Is disgusting!

PHEW!


Very well put, and I totally agree!!

[Vic]

Kelly, it's nice to get personal insight from you, it gives some straight-to-heart indication of a T-girl; thank you. If you, and I both were both single, I'd seek you out, and not only fuck that shit outta you, I would love to have you reciprocate; and maybe I too could experience the mutiple orgasms via prostate stimulation!?!

[Kayden Harley]

I think it's so ridiculous some of the statements from the men and transwomen on this site!

The prejudice from both sides is stupid.

Sex is meant to be enjoyed...What happens in the bedroom is all about satisfaction.

I know some of the manliest rugged men who have strong personalities who are total bottoms. Nobody would guess ever they would be bottoms. Keep in mind though you can bottom and still be manly. It's not like he has to start sashaying around the room or some crap!

I know girly gay boys who are total tops! And you would never guess they'd be dominate like that.

Sometimes people are tops, because ANAL SEX isn't enjoyable for them. It hurts! It's not PLEASURABLE FOR THEM. Some people's asses are more sensitive than others.

So get off your soapbox that someone is less feminine or less manly because they enjoys something in particular to get them off in the bedroom.

Or it makes them less of a woman!

I know this is hard for many MEN to believe, but a lot of us don't include sex to define our GENDER. So some transsexuals are bi (myself), lesbian/gay, or straight. Just like any other female!

So why don't you say the same crap to an attractive female who is only into females.

"That you shouldn't of been born if you are only into females."

The audacity of you to tell someone they shouldn't of transitioned if they wont SERVICE you men! Is disgusting!

PHEW!

:Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown::iagree::iagre e::iagree::iagree:

LOVE this post :)

XOXO
-Kay