Donald Trump as the Republican nominee?

[Silcc69]

Does he have shot win the republican nominee? I could see him using "Obama, you're fired" as a campaign slogan. And he is willing to spend 600 million dollars for advertisement. I don't think the republicans are too fond of this guy in the first place but I could be wrong.

[Ben]

Too funny:

YouTube - Roast Of Donald Trump - Seth MacFarlane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TOO5gDT2iw)

[Ben]

Does he have shot win the republican nominee? I could see him using "Obama, you're fired" as a campaign slogan. And he is willing to spend 600 million dollars for advertisement. I don't think the republicans are too fond of this guy in the first place but I could be wrong.

I'm guessing it'll be Mitt Romney. He, well, looks presidential. It's all in the look.
Ya need to be tall (Mitt is over 6 feet) and have a full head of hair. Policies are irrelevant -- ha! ha! What matters is height, is hair -- ha! ha!

[south ov da border]

republican's go by who's turn. Romney has passed his healthcare thing so I don't think he'll be running. How about

YouTube - WCW HULK HOGAN FOR PRESIDENT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjOwdcK9A7k)
...

[onmyknees]

Does he have shot win the republican nominee? I could see him using "Obama, you're fired" as a campaign slogan. And he is willing to spend 600 million dollars for advertisement. I don't think the republicans are too fond of this guy in the first place but I could be wrong.

Not a chance. Perhaps I can see him as ambassador to China...that would be interesting given he despises the Chineese, or maybe as head of the NLRB beating the public sector unions into submission. LMAO

[betts]

he will not be the nominee.

[Ben]

Again, it'll be Mitt. And, too, he's backed the by the Koch brothers. Ya know, the two brothers who run America -- :)

Tea Party Billionaire David Koch Hosted One Of Mitt Romney’s First Fundraisers For 2012 Campaign (http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/15/mitt-romney-david-koch/)

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mitt_romney_david_koch.jpg (http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mitt_romney_david_koch.jpg)Last year, the New York Times revealed (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/us/politics/13donate.html?_r=1) that petrochemical billionaire David Koch was among a small group of multibillionaires quietly promoting a presidential candidacy for former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney. Today, a report (http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/3019/) by investigative journalist Peter Stone states that Koch actually hosted Romney last summer for one of his first large fundraising parties:
Romney’s team boasts veteran bigwig bundlers such as Woody Johnson, who owns the New York Jets; Wayne Berman, who chairs the lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations; and David Koch of Koch Industries. This trio and other big bundlers have done yeoman’s work already. Last August, Koch and his wife hosted an evening soiree at their home in the Hamptons for Romney. Since the November elections, Romney has done about one conference call a month with a nationwide group of some 300 fundraisers to keep them in the loop.
The Koch brothers have historically (http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/21/koch-mike-pompeo/) played a key role in selecting GOP candidates. Last year, they guided a large contingent of climate change-denying candidates to victory using their Tea Party “Americans for Prosperity” and “No Climate Tax (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/gop-senate-deniers/)” front groups.
During the ’90s, Koch heavily supported Republican presidential nominee Bob Dole. At one point, Koch “turned his Gatsbyish estate (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0602/S00156.htm) in Southampton, New York, into the site for celebrating Dole’s 72nd birthday in July 1995, raising $150,000 for his campaign.” Dole reciprocated throughout his career; at one point offering legislation (http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1996/b3469090.arc.htm) to suppress an investigation into Koch Industries’ massive theft of oil from Indian reservations and public lands.

[Ben]

YouTube - Tim Pawlenty's Amazing Vocal Stylings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iievD8U8w&feature=channel_video_title)

[Faldur]

http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/57826847-pat-paulson.jpg

[Ben]

Glad to see Trump is sticking to important issues -- ha! ha! :crazy

YouTube - Donald Trump Wants to See Obama's Birth Certificate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCKDTwu_g2M)

[Silcc69]

He said some interesting things until he got down to the birther thing I mean really come on my dude.

[onmyknees]

He said some interesting things until he got down to the birther thing I mean really come on my dude.

I'm curious....what's your take on the birth certificate thing ? And what did Trump say that offends you so much? He said he felt Obama was born here, but says every one of us Americans has to present a birth certificate for a variety of things. Basicaly he said show the damn thing and let's move on....I don't find that outrageous ........not in the least. I urge you...go to the post office for a passport and take with you a birth announcment...see how far you get. Even Tingles Matthews said..."just show the damn thing"
Funny....the press dug into Bush's past for all sorts of shit....A DUI in Mass, some indiscretions while he was in his 20's,
every day he spent in the Air National Guard, and good for them....that's thier job....but strangely they lost all intellectual curiosity when Obama entered the scene...That's all I'm sayin'. Suddenly everything changed. It used to be we all said, regardless of party...that a politician is generally lying when his lips start moving, but you're perfectly willing to put that on hold for Obama, and just take what he tells you as gospel.... Curious.

[trish]

To what official body does is the president to show his birth certificate? What will make you happy. The republican governor of HA has inspected the certificate. The hospital has had it photocopied and you can find it on the web. It's the same kind of certificate that any Hawaiian shows to obtain a visa or a passport. I must admit, there's not much here to challenge the intellect or spur one's intellectual curiosity. Of course if you want to stir the dumbasses of the republican base, that's another thing.

[Quiet Reflections]

Does he have shot win the republican nominee? I could see him using "Obama, you're fired" as a campaign slogan. And he is willing to spend 600 million dollars for advertisement. I don't think the republicans are too fond of this guy in the first place but I could be wrong.
It will never happen. That guy has way to many skeletons in his closet. I would however love to see him make it on the POTUS' salary and open all his financial records. I'm sure his records alone would tank his chances. They poured through both of the obamas histories and I seriously doubt they are anywhere near as shady as Trump

[Stavros]

As you know I am not a citizen of the USA -was there some talk of General Petraeus going into politics? The view here is that Palin is too much of a liability so I think we can count her out although she might have a run at the nomination. My guess is that there is a Governor out there somewhere who might emerge during the nomination process rather like Clinton did in the 90s. but you people probably know more about it than I do.

[Ineeda SM]

The "Birther" thing is just another republican tool of hate to keep the base fired up. And the stupid weak minded conservatives are buying it. I believe even the republicans know in their hearts that Obama was born in the USA. But it is a way to spread more hate for the right wing base, so they keep pushing the lie anyway. It's called propaganda. Hell it worked for Hitler.

The man has shown the same photocopy of his birth certificate that every president has shown to prove they were a citizen and eligible to run for the office. The press (Except FoxGOP of course) have even produced announcements of Obama's birth from the ORIGINAL newspaper at the time he was born. I suppose his mom had a master plan way back then that Barack would someday run for president, so they faked the announcement to be prepared all these years later. How stupid can right wingers be?

Hey right wingers. He's a citizen already. He HAS proved it. Accept it, get over yourselves, and move on to important issues.

Trump doesn't stand a chance in hell of being president. He can bull shit like a republican, but his record is way too dirty. He is rich, but he is in debt up to his groundhog hairdo. He almost lost is ass a few years ago but got backing from the guys with crooked noses, (if ya knows wut I means). Trump will be president when FoxGOP channel finally tells one item of truth. Meaning when the earth explodes, and Beck's last words are, "UH OH! WE'RE FUCKED".

[Faldur]

Certificate of Live Birth
A certificate of live birth may have been given to your parents before leaving the hospital after you were born. However, this has not been certified by your state's Department of Human Services.

Evidence of Citizenship
To get a U.S. passport, you must have primary evidence of U.S. citizenship. A certified birth certificate should satisfy this requirement, but a certificate of live birth will not.


He couldn't get a passport with the document he provided. He HASN"T proved shit, only that he is hiding something.

[trish]

He couldn't get a passport with the document he provided.Bullshit. It's exactly the document every Hawaiian uses to obtain a passport.

[Ben]

Certificate of Live Birth
A certificate of live birth may have been given to your parents before leaving the hospital after you were born. However, this has not been certified by your state's Department of Human Services.

Evidence of Citizenship
To get a U.S. passport, you must have primary evidence of U.S. citizenship. A certified birth certificate should satisfy this requirement, but a certificate of live birth will not.


He couldn't get a passport with the document he provided. He HASN"T proved shit, only that he is hiding something.

This is silly -- and racist. And wasn't John McCain born in Panama? Yes! A Naval Air Station. But still. And: Sarah Palin. Anyone question where she was born? Maybe it was Canada and her parents slipped across the border. And, too, I mean, was Ronnie Reagan born in America? Was his country of birth ever questioned? What about Jimmy Carter? Gerry Ford? What about tricky dicky Nixon? What about Kennedy? Maybe, just maybe he was born in Ireland. I mean, Georgie Washington was born in a British colony.

[Faldur]

It's the same kind of certificate that any Hawaiian shows to obtain a visa or a passport.

Your as wrong as you could be, you could NEVER obtain a US Passport in any of the 53 States Obama has campaigned in. NEVER, EVER its un-questionable a certificate of live birth blessed by the fricking Pope will get you a free cup of coffee as you leave the post office, and thats it!

Taken from the US Passport Office..http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first

3.Submit Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):
Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport
Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*
Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
Naturalization Certificate
Certificate of Citizenship

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must also include the full names of the applicant's parent(s). For more information, please see New Requirement for all U.S. Birth Certificates.

NOTE: If you do not have primary evidence of U.S. citizenship or your U.S. birth certificate does not meet the requirements, please see Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship.

McCain had to submit his birth certificate, there was questions about where he was born. He needed to be born on the base to qualify to be a US Citizen. Why is that so damned difficult for someone to understand. There are requirements in life, deal with it.

Racist? What are you an idiot?

[trish]

From the above link:
*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must also include the full names of the applicant's parent(s). For more information, please see New Requirement for all U.S. Birth Certificates (http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_5401.html).







The republican Governor has confirmed that Obama's certificate is real and that it has the raised embossed seal.

[Faldur]

Thats a beautiful UNSIGNED document Trish, they should be proud of it. You would get laughed out of the passport office. There is day and night difference between a Certificate of Live Birth and a Birth Certificate. I can only direct you to the post office if you want proof, bring an unsigned Cert of Live birth and see how far you get in the passport process.

[trish]

Who signed yours. LMAO Birth certificates are either signed or sealed. Rarely both. As you can see by your own link the current policy is to have them sealed.

[Faldur]

Mine was signed by Dorothy E. Geuleu, (sorry handwriting so sloppy hard to make out), and Roy O. Gilbertnal, (again sorry no written name, just signatures). They were the listed "Certifying Registrar's", the county recorder listed is Ray E. Lee.

[Ben]

Your as wrong as you could be, you could NEVER obtain a US Passport in any of the 53 States Obama has campaigned in. NEVER, EVER its un-questionable a certificate of live birth blessed by the fricking Pope will get you a free cup of coffee as you leave the post office, and thats it!

Taken from the US Passport Office..http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first

3.Submit Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):
Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport
Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*
Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
Naturalization Certificate
Certificate of Citizenship

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must also include the full names of the applicant's parent(s). For more information, please see New Requirement for all U.S. Birth Certificates.

NOTE: If you do not have primary evidence of U.S. citizenship or your U.S. birth certificate does not meet the requirements, please see Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship.

McCain had to submit his birth certificate, there was questions about where he was born. He needed to be born on the base to qualify to be a US Citizen. Why is that so damned difficult for someone to understand. There are requirements in life, deal with it.

Racist? What are you an idiot?

It is racist. If Obama were a white male, well, this birther bullshit would've never got off the ground.
It's an attempt to appeal to what Martin Luther King Jr. described as: unconscious or inadvertent racists.
Plus it's conspiracy nonsense.
Focus on what Obama is doing or not doing. Focus on policy.

[trish]

Good for you. Your children or grandchildren only need the seal, as per the document you linked.

[onmyknees]

To what official body does is the president to show his birth certificate? What will make you happy. The republican governor of HA has inspected the certificate. The hospital has had it photocopied and you can find it on the web. It's the same kind of certificate that any Hawaiian shows to obtain a visa or a passport. I must admit, there's not much here to challenge the intellect or spur one's intellectual curiosity. Of course if you want to stir the dumbasses of the republican base, that's another thing.

you are so over sensitive about this it lends itself to suspicion. The Republican governor is full of shit, and with all due respect....so are you. The new Democratic governer...(you know, the fat guy that looks like he just came from a Dead concert) Abercrombie was going to make it his bussiness to put all this nonsence to rest. Now be mindful he was a very close ally of Barry....so he let the word go forth that as the State's Chief executive...he wanted the birth cirtificate and he wanted it ASAP....
"snap it up" as Tingles Matthews cheered him on ..Well my dear...here's the result of that search...I link to the NY Daily News below...

Incredulously...after making a huge deal about embarking on his search, then coming up empty...he lashes out at those who are perplexed !! What a fat fool ! So...your contention that the Republican Governor verfied the document is the biggest fail of all time. It may make that Guiness book !! LOL

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-01-22/news/27096375_1_gynecological-hospital-hawaii-governor-president-obama

[onmyknees]

It is racist. If Obama were a white male, well, this birther bullshit would've never got off the ground.
It's an attempt to appeal to what Martin Luther King Jr. described as: unconscious or inadvertent racists.
Plus it's conspiracy nonsense.
Focus on what Obama is doing or not doing. Focus on policy.

Ben....don't cheap shot, or I'll copy and paste you to death !! LOL

I have said it before, and have yet to be proven wrong....we know less about this man than any President in 100 years. Does it make him a communist? NO. Does it make him a Kenyan ? Absolutely NOT . Does it make him a Manchurian Candidate...of course NOT....but I can go on any search engine and read Millard Fillmore's thesis, and a complete history of his life from birth to death. Since you're calling me a racist....you need to back it up. So your homework assignment is to fill in the many gaps in Obama's life. Certainly your left wing buddy Glen Greenwald should be able to help you in that regard...But If you can't....I'd like an aplology for questioning my curiosity
.

For the record....I personally have no dog in the birther fight...I think it's a waste of time, but those like you who have no explanation for the lack of it...or many other documents, reach for the tried and true race card. The efforts of the desperate !

[Silcc69]

Ben....don't cheap shot, or I'll copy and paste you to death !! LOL

I have said it before, and have yet to be proven wrong....we know less about this man than any President in 100 years. Does it make him a communist? NO. Does it make him a Kenyan ? Absolutely NOT . Does it make him a Manchurian Candidate...of course NOT....but I can go on any search engine and read Millard Fillmore's thesis, and a complete history of his life from birth to death. Since you're calling me a racist....you need to back it up. So your homework assignment is to fill in the many gaps in Obama's life. Certainly your left wing buddy Glen Greenwald should be able to help you in that regard...But If you can't....I'd like an aplology for questioning my curiosity
.

For the record....I personally have no dog in the birther fight...I think it's a waste of time, but those like you who have no explanation for the lack of it...or many other documents, reach for the tried and true race card. The efforts of the desperate !

What other president was dogged out like this before? None of the previous 43 presidents were questioned about there birth certificate. But they were white of course. And what other president has been called a secret muslim before? Whoops none of the 43 before Obama they were white. I have no issues with people that question his policies but thus birth certificate BS and muslim shit is nothing more than right wing tactic to drum up hate and fear.

[trish]

With all due resect, onmyknees, you're full of shit. (BTW I suppose you don't like Chris Christie then, 'cause he's a fat fuck. How many different fucking prejudices can reside in one skull? oops but Christie's a republican, so I'm sure you'll make an exception)

[onmyknees]

What other president was dogged out like this before? None of the previous 43 presidents were questioned about there birth certificate. But they were white of course. And what other president has been called a secret muslim before? Whoops none of the 43 before Obama they were white. I have no issues with people that question his policies but thus birth certificate BS and muslim shit is nothing more than right wing tactic to drum up hate and fear.

OMG..are you serious? They sure the fuck did question McCain about his birthplace. You must have missed that news flash....BTW McCain's father was on active duty when he was born on a military base...which is US territory. And the NYT completely fabricated a story about him having an affair with a staffer during the campaign...who now has a liable suit against them.
You really have to get a clue....they sent teams of reporters to Alaska to search every piece of paper from the time she was in High School to the day she was named VP candidate. Shit...some left wing loon even moved right next door to her...so these phoney cries about Obama being sooooooooooooooooooooo mistreated are frankly a fucking joke. Look...the press got down on it's collective knees and performed journalistic fellatio on this guy, and it really did a dis-service to him. He was never vetted, thus these questions presist.

And as far as all the other presidents....many had long military distinguished careers and thier place of birth was never an issue. They were readily avaibale...as were all those who were not in the military....in fact I'll bet I could find them all online. So that's another red herring.

OK...now answer me this Mr. I'll play the race card everytime I don't have an answer.....why has he (obama) fought this in court numerous times? And do you know the first person to challange this in court??? Let me inform you. Alan Keyes..a black man....so your bogus cries of racism are hollow. Stick them right there in the back closet next to Obama's birth cirtificate. LOL
http://tallahassee.injuryboard.com/miscellaneous/obama-citizenship-lawsuit-headed-to-us-supreme-court.aspx?googleid=250090

Look...it's either 2 things at this point..Obama is either the supreme
Machiavellian...and will lay the paper work on us once all the birthers are about to go insane, and do so with a big smile...........OR he doesn't have it and can't produce it. It can't be anything but those 2 possibilities, but race has nothing to do with it.....but keep using that. It worked well against the Tea Parties !

[trish]

Look...it's either 2 things at this point (...) OR (...). It can't be anything but those 2 possibilities...Or he's already produced a legal birth certificate and all you deniers are just having a circle jerk.

[Stavros]

I dont understand why this is such a toxic issue among Americans. We have had three Prime Ministers who were half-American and one who part of his life in Canada before he came to the UK, joined the Tories and became PM. I am not even sure I understand WHY people born in a foreign country -eg Schwarzenegger- cannot run for the Presidency: where do you think HIS loyalties lie, in Vienna? I have never heard of a 'live birth' certificate? Maybe from now on you will need a video of your birth to prove it, though I guess that can be forged by some supergeek in Idaho...

[Ben]

What other president was dogged out like this before? None of the previous 43 presidents were questioned about there birth certificate. But they were white of course. And what other president has been called a secret muslim before? Whoops none of the 43 before Obama they were white. I have no issues with people that question his policies but thus birth certificate BS and muslim shit is nothing more than right wing tactic to drum up hate and fear.

Exactly.
The whole birther issue is a pathetic political ploy. And, too, it's an attempt to instill fear in voters. Ya know, Obama is a "secret" Marxist, a "secret" Muslim. Ya know, we should all be afraid. And plus he could be an "angry" black man. Gimme a break. It's patently racist. And xenophobic.
You know, Obama is not only black but he could be a foreigner too. So we should all be afraid. It's completely disgusting. (I mean, there are some absolute crackpots who really believe that Obama is the Anti-Christ.)
Again, if Obama were a white male, well, none of this would've got off the ground.
And: was Obama's mom in on the conspiracy?????????
The Republican Party is playing to the crazies -- in its voting base. Rather than correcting those who think he was born in Kenya, well, the Republicans want to use them. Much like they've been using white supremacists since Nixon's Southern strategy.

[Faldur]

Lol, I have to say Trump has played the main stream press like a pro. Releasing a certificate of live birth on Monday, the press was foaming at the mouth "He has released an un-official document!!" Only to come back with the official document a day later.

Oh the hypocrisy, you progressives are far to much fun. Were going to have to keep you around.

[Faldur]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/261515/thumbs/r-DONALD-TRUMP-BIRTH-CERTIFICATE-large570.jpg

[trish]

He has no documentation whatsoever for that "hair."

[Faldur]

He has no documentation whatsoever for that "hair."

Right? How long you figure that comb over takes him? I think half of that shit is pulled up for his lower back.

[Ben]

Right? How long you figure that comb over takes him? I think half of that shit is pulled up for his lower back.

Here's a comical pic.

[Ben]

Here's a comical pic.

And the hair might be odd and bad. But the wife is certainly hot. Man! She would be an amazing looking shemale. Maybe she is -- ha! ha! :)

[trish]

So is she his trophy, or is the Trump fortune her trophy? I gotta hand it to her she must have her gag reflex well under control...for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fel-low...nobody can deny.

[onmyknees]

So is she his trophy, or is the Trump fortune her trophy? I gotta hand it to her she must have her gag reflex well under control...for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fel-low...nobody can deny.


Way to keep it classy and on topic Trish. You're firing blanks when you wallow in the sewer and bring someone's mate into the picture, but it doesn't surprise me. You fuckers are a nasty bunch. As heated as it gets on this board...no one I recall brought a politicians spouse or kids into the mix....congradulations you're the first. You're become more vile with each post....At one time you were a classy lady...now you're a sewer snipe. Pathetic:loser:

[trish]

Yeah, Faldur should know better than to drag the trophy wife into this. Btw, very classy post there, onmyknees.

[Ineeda SM]

So is she his trophy, or is the Trump fortune her trophy? I gotta hand it to her she must have her gag reflex well under control...for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fellow, for he's a disgusting fel-low...nobody can deny.

Both! He gets to have a babe on his arms and in his bed, and when she decides it's been the right amount of time to divorce the asshole, she will be able to bathe in money for the rest of her life. She's a gold digger, but not a stupid one.

Maybe she's waiting for that groundhog on his head to eat him, then it will all be hers.

[Dino Velvet]

The funny thing about Trump's hair is that I'm sure it's expensive. It's called an "Onion Loaf". I heard him talk about it once.

I'm hoping Trump runs for President. I wouldn't vote for him but the Republican Primary Debates will be must see TV with that cast of characters. I've been enjoying his interview with O'Reilly this week.

[Stavros]

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/candidates?ref=politics

The NYT has a short overview of 11 possible Republican runners, but not including Mr Trump. Of this group, Mitch Daniels looks intriguing, although here in the UK a columnist for The Sunday Telegraph has backed Tom Pawlenty. I can't understand how a man who calls himself 'Newt' ever got elected in the first place, etc etc. None of them will win anyway.

[Ineeda SM]

Newt is short for Newton. But the name fits him. He is a slimy little newt.

STAVROS, I can tell you exactly how he got elected. America used to be a nation of leaders, innovators, inventors and very smart people, many years ago. Damn we walked on the Moon with 1960's technology.

At least 50% of this country today are stupid pussies who have no independent thought of their own. They are called christian conservatives, republicans, teabaggers, and hillbillies. They only know how to play follow the propaganda, and they do it so well. The right wing in America preys on them because they are easily led and do not ask questions or challenge them on anything. All they see is a republican politician waving a flag in one hand, and a gun in the other hand. They spit their tobacco, smile and pull the republican lever in the voting booth. It all started in the 1980's when Ronald Reagan the movie actor took on the biggest acting roll of his life. The Presidency. After that, this country went to hell on a fast train without a return ticket.

And as each year passes, they become more stupid than the year before. They gave us Reagan who started the migration of American businesses to other countries. Bush Sr kept with Reagan's policies and fucked us a little more. Then democrat Bill Clinton came in and gave this country the best economy we have ever had, and gave Bush Jr a surplus of $500Billion. Then in just 8 years Bush got us into an illegal war which killed almost 5,000 American soldiers and cost us close to $3 TRILLION in taxpayer money, all so he could impress his daddy.

Now we are in a mess that Bush and the republicans gave us. They are trying to blame Obama because he hasn't pulled a magic wand out of his ass that he could wave and make it all better. I am proud to be an American, and I love my country. It pains me deeply to see where the republicans have taken us, and they don't give a shit. All they care about is greed, money, and power.

NOW! With enough retarded American voters to give us all that shit, can you still ask how Newt got elected?

[Stavros]

It was a rhetorical question, not a literal one, mainly because I used to look at Newts in jars when I was a schoolboy, and I was not impressed.
I think one of the problems people who are politically engaged have, is that most people most of the time do not concern themselves with politics, it can lead to frustration, cynicism and extreme reactions, but its just a simple fact. Most people most of the time are absorbed by family issues, employment issues which are more important to them, I dont know if 50% is the figure but when it comes to making a choice people tend to act on instinct or impulse without thinking issues through, but I think that the influence of 'Christian' 'relgious' and single-issue groups in the US is stronger than it is here in the UK, even though at most elections it is economic issues that tend to be the key factor, and whether or not people 'feel good' about either the incumbent government or the challenger(s).

I think Reagan was elected at a turning point in recent history, I detested him at the time, but a belief that was dominant at the time, that Carter had been an ineffective President and that the USA's perception of itself after Watergate was too morbid, did enable him to win an election by using sunshine and optimism as a selling point. In fact, Carter was on some levels a greater success: the first significant break-through in the Middle East peace process for example, giving Panama the dignity of owning its own canal; the truth is Carter lost Congress early on his Presidency, and was powerless to prevent the Shah of Iran from being thrown out in the Islamic revolution.

But I don't think Reagan was in a position to prevent the trend for outsourcing and re-location from taking place. Capitalism, fundamentally, looks for cheap costs and high returns, the 1980s was a decade when heavy industry was too expensive to run in the UK and USA -the UK lost 25% of its manufacturing base from 1979-1990- and just as there was a time when Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan could compete for that slice of industry, now China with a huge army of low-paid workers, has taken over as the workshop of the world, although its mostly mass consumer goods.

However, the US still has intellectual prowess and huge capital resources, so I don't think you should be so despondent about the future -you have a capacity for re-invention which is absent in the UK, you have the best of the best universities, and as long as people with practical solutions to energy issues and can come up with innovative ways of doing things and making things, it will improve employment opportunities, and the USA will not decline or face ruin.

Foreign entanglemens are probably the hardest issue you need to deal with, primarily because of the residual fear from 9/11 that people outside the USA are plotting to attack it and the US needs to pre-empt such attacks -Pakistan has become dependent on US Aid, Israel less so; India doesn't need aid at all these days; I would suggest you should be more worried about instability in Mexico than in North Africa. Resource management, particularly the way we use water, will become -should become- more important than the current obsession with radical Jihadis, I think in the end that the more extreme elements in US politics will remain outsiders -I hope so!

[Ineeda SM]

But I don't think Reagan was in a position to prevent the trend for outsourcing and re-location from taking place. Capitalism, fundamentally, looks for cheap costs and high returns, the 1980s was a decade when heavy industry was too expensive to run in the UK and USA -the UK lost 25% of its manufacturing base from 1979-1990- and just as there was a time when Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan could compete for that slice of industry, now China with a huge army of low-paid workers, has taken over as the workshop of the world, although its mostly mass consumer goods.

You are right that Carter was seen as a failure even considering his accomplishments. But Businesses in America were encouraged by Reagan to move their manufacturing plants to other countries. He did this through big tax breaks if they could lower their expenses and reinvest their profits in their own businesses. They found they could do that by moving to countries where manufacturing costs were amazingly lower. Ever since Reagan gave them the tax breaks, they saved the money by going abroad, and they just pocketed the tax savings too. Before Reagan, very few companies in the US had manufacturing outside our boarders. Bush Jr increased that tax cut to make it easier for business to move abroad and keep even more profits.


However, the US still has intellectual prowess and huge capital resources, so I don't think you should be so despondent about the future -you have a capacity for re-invention which is absent in the UK, you have the best of the best universities, and as long as people with practical solutions to energy issues and can come up with innovative ways of doing things and making things, it will improve employment opportunities, and the USA will not decline or face ruin.

Most of that is quite true, but it will never happen that way. The right wing in this country wants to keep things the way they are. They like having poor people who need their services. The right wing owns the major industries in the US that control the US, from drug companies, banks, to the big oil companies. If we go GREEN here, the right wing will lose lots of money on oil and coal demand.


Foreign entanglemens are probably the hardest issue you need to deal with, primarily because of the residual fear from 9/11 that people outside the USA are plotting to attack it and the US needs to pre-empt such attacks -Pakistan has become dependent on US Aid, Israel less so; India doesn't need aid at all these days; I would suggest you should be more worried about instability in Mexico than in North Africa. Resource management, particularly the way we use water, will become -should become- more important than the current obsession with radical Jihadis, I think in the end that the more extreme elements in US politics will remain outsiders -I hope so!

Unfortunately the extreme elements of US politics are already in the government. They are the right wing. They are the rich who are greedy to be richer, and don't care who they hurt to do it. That is the main reason behind most of the arguments between the left and right wings here.

Mexico is a lost cause. They have the weakest and most corrupt leaders in North America. They don't even try to stop the drug trade into the US because they get kick-backs from it, and they do nothing to control their boarders because they want their people to go to the US. So boarder control is all up to the USA, and we just don't have the resources needed to handle it.

[Stavros]

First of all I agree with your argument about Reagan and the export of businesses, as I now recall going to a lecture on South East Asia in the mid-80s, its not a subject I have kept up with and I forgot about it. Thanks for the jolt; although I think that there is still a stronger manufacturing base in the US than there is here.

In spite of my negative feelings for Reagan and Bush 1 and 2, I feel positive about the USA in the long term, more so than I do about the UK. There have always been extremists in the USA, and I suppose that we know more about them now because of the internet and the availability of rapid access information generally -but extremists tend to be 'one-trick ponies' and even if they initially acquire support, it doesnt last when the big issues have to be dealt with -crucially the battle between the White House and Congress and the ability of the latter to turn a one-page bill into a revised version of the Yellow Pages means you often end up with something other than was originally intended.

I think re-invention is critical, US industry was at one time based in the north-east, then it moved south-west; black Americans who migrated north are now migrating south; I doubt anyone in 1970 believed Seattle would become the home of a computing revolution. For that reason two cities intrigue me, both of them at opposite ends of the country: Detroit and New Orleans. Both have been devastated, the former by the steep decline in the automobile industry, the latter via Hurricane Katrina. Both also have/had large African American communities, and both are in the process of re-inventing themselves: although there was an argument that New Orleans for geographical reasons should have been abandoned.

I don't know where the New New Orelans is heading, it seems to be a smaller city at the moment with a smaller African-American community, and I don't know if it wil emerge as a kinder, gentler place to live in, retaining its mixed heritage of Jazz, Cajun culture, etc. Detroit on the other hand, is trying to re-invent itself as a green city, and this is the kind of innovative thinking and change that excites me about the USA, more than the jaded freaks who trade in bigotry and hate, because the USA is a 'can do' dare I say, 'Yes we can' type of country.
http://www.greeningdetroit.com/2011/02/11/greeningdetroit-com-sponsors-%E2%80%98green-city%E2%80%9D-award-in-16th-annual-future-cities-competition/


Be critical, but be positive also.

[Ineeda SM]

Stavros, you pay good attention to US history, and your upbeat outlook on us is admirable at best. But you have to live here to really understand what the news and media never shows you mates across the pond.

I was born and raised in the northeast. I have watched this country go through some big changes. Some for the good of all, and many for the worse. We have come a long way with race relations and prejudice, but it still exist in strong forms amongst many.

The saddest part for most working class Americans is watching manufacturing, and industry drop little by little each year as technology replaces the labor force. One automated machine does what 5 men used to do with their hands. I am all for technology advancements, but when it cuts jobs and hurts the middle class, we need to rethink how it is implemented into our society.

We are fully capable of inventing and innovating, but today's world invents technology and not manufacturing. Our infrastructure is larger than we have the funds to fix it. One drawback of having such a large country. Our population is over 300 million now, and growing. That's a lot of people to house, feed, clothe, and employ. It is why we needed the new health care plan. More people needed help than we could take care of without it. The countries of Europe have had national health care almost forever. Many here have envied your national health care system for it's low cost to the patients.

I have a bad feeling that my country will never recover from the debt that the republicans have put us into. Some of it because the debt is just too high for us to ever pay back, and the other reason is because the right wing in America doesn't want it to happen. They are not thinking of our future. They only care about their own bank accounts today. They figure they will be dead and gone long before this country falls completely apart. So they don't care. This is the new generation that is arising to take over here.

I was born when a computer was something only the government had, and it was as big as a factory. That same computer is in this little laptop I am typing on. There was no cable TV, no video games, no cell phones, no home movies, and 5 local TV channels to watch on a B&W TV. If I did something wrong I got my ass beat, and I never did it again. I learned from my mistake. It was called parenting and discipline. Today's kids are born into a world with every luxury they need. They do not know a world without the above mentioned items. If they do something wrong, they are sent to their rooms where they can play video games, talk on their cell phones....and have fun. The law says parents can't hit their kids to punish them anymore. What used to be discipline is now called child abuse, and your own child can have you arrested and sue you for hitting them. So they are learning that greed and crime pays well. They are not learning right from wrong anymore. As I said, this is the new generation that is going to become our leaders. It is very hard to see any promise in our future. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

[Stavros]

I actually agree with a lot of what you say, on population growth and the strain on natural resources, and on the changing nature of work and industry and not just in the USA -I am not naive, but my optimism is based on a long view, which is that the USA is not close to the 'point of no return' that has been seen in Zimbabwe, for example, where there is a breakdown of government, law and order, the economy, and social cohesion.

I do understand that there are fault-lines in the USA which are not class-based as they are in the UK where 75 Prime Ministers have been to Oxford University and where our current PM is an Old Etonian. There are as I see it 'preferential networks' in the USA which are as important as class is here: the Ivy League universities, the networking that gets some people into the major corporate law firms rather than others, the Wall St and DC beltway bubbles, and so on -but not, as far as I can make out, the US Military. We have tended to see 'race' as a defining fault-line in the USA, although I wish we could either abolish the word or at least recognise it as a manufactured concept rather than something derived from science (cf Ivan Hannaford, Race: the History of an Idea in the West).

In the longer term, the population globally looks set to decline from 2050, not much of a consolation to me as I will be dead by then; the prospects for a new energy future are already being applied; across the Middle East and North Africa the decrepit one-party states and dictatorships have had their day (morally if not actually) with Burma and North Korea to follow in the next 10 years; the real challenge is with resource management, especially water, but the optimism is based on the view that people do have positive initiatives for change, and that Detroit for example is one way of at least trying to make a difference.

People sometimes expect more from politicians than they can deliver; although I don't doubt Obama will be re-elected, I think his two terms will be judged a failure, because he inherited an economic mess that would take at least 10 years to sort out -having a hostile Congress will also defeat whatever good he could do from DC anyway -the US economy is large enough to survive, albeit on a smaller scale than in the past, but I don't see collapse or decline; but its not so much 'change you can believe in'. as 'change you have to get used to', and that takes time.

[Ben]

YouTube - Glenn Beck Rips Donald Trump on Fox News w/ Bill O'Reilly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqK0T56onyA&feature=channel_video_title)

[Ineeda SM]

I agree with much of your reply, and it was very well stated. But I just wanted to address these to segments.


I actually agree with a lot of what you say, on population growth and the strain on natural resources, and on the changing nature of work and industry and not just in the USA -I am not naive, but my optimism is based on a long view, which is that the USA is not close to the 'point of no return' that has been seen in Zimbabwe, for example, where there is a breakdown of government, law and order, the economy, and social cohesion.

We in the USA may not be in the horrible situation that Zimbabwe has reached, and I would hope we never do. But your description of the breakdown of government is showing it's ugly head here already.

Our government is two sides that can not see eye to eye on anything, mainly because our right wing republicans are not willing to work with a democratic senate lead by a black president. So the government has began the breakdown already.

Law and order is mainly for the rich who seems to be able to kill and get away with it. If you are poor in America, you do not have much law and order on your side these days.

Anyone who has looked at our news threads on the web already know that our economy is past the point of no return. I say this only because those who can do something about it, WON'T.

Social cohesion? Now that is a tricky one. Our country is so divided by politicians and ignorant people who listen to, and fall for the lies and propaganda of the right wing. And now the right wing has become divided into 2 factions. One is the usual greedy asshole republicans who are 50% between center and completely to the right. The other is called, "The Tea Party". The tea party is made up of republicans who have become extremely as right from center as you can get.

The republicans, tea party, democrats, and independents all have their own followers. They disagree with each other to the point of no more social cohesion. There are threats of violence from one faction to another, and soon there could be a very strange version of civil war where the enemy is everywhere. I hope I am dead and buried by that time.



People sometimes expect more from politicians than they can deliver; although I don't doubt Obama will be re-elected, I think his two terms will be judged a failure, because he inherited an economic mess that would take at least 10 years to sort out -having a hostile Congress will also defeat whatever good he could do from DC anyway -the US economy is large enough to survive, albeit on a smaller scale than in the past, but I don't see collapse or decline; but its not so much 'change you can believe in'. as 'change you have to get used to', and that takes time.

You got this one brilliantly my friend. No president from any party could fix this economy quickly. And it will probably take 50 years to fix, only if the parties would work together. But that is not going to happen here. At least not too soon.

[Stavros]

And it will probably take 50 years to fix, only if the parties would work together. But that is not going to happen here. At least not too soon.

50 years??? Now that IS pessimistic, especially for the USA. Also the famous 'checks and balances' which were woven into your constitution were there to prevent either the President or Congress becoming, in effect a dictatorship -and, something that has amazed people for about 200 years or so, is that, the Civil War aside, your system has retained its democratic characteristics ever since it was founded; indeed one aspect of the Civil War is that the Union victory made the USA safe for capitalism and the existing system. Congress and Presidents have been at war before, Carter lost the Congress, Clinton lost Congress to a 'Contract with America'; there were times when Roosevelt barely needed it, and times when Congress, with the McCarthy hearings actually took on the citizens of the USA. I do appreciate that there are deeply entrenched corporate interests in the USA, and there are times when I feel despondent about 'race relations' and bigoted attitudes, but I think when Americans see an abyss open up in front of them -as happened on 9/11- a realisation that you are united by more than what divides you is a comfort -that however rough the trip gets, you will survive. But 50 years?? Let's stick to 10....

[Ineeda SM]

And it will probably take 50 years to fix, only if the parties would work together. But that is not going to happen here. At least not too soon.

50 years??? Now that IS pessimistic, especially for the USA. Also the famous 'checks and balances' which were woven into your constitution were there to prevent either the President or Congress becoming, in effect a dictatorship -and, something that has amazed people for about 200 years or so, is that, the Civil War aside, your system has retained its democratic characteristics ever since it was founded; indeed one aspect of the Civil War is that the Union victory made the USA safe for capitalism and the existing system. Congress and Presidents have been at war before, Carter lost the Congress, Clinton lost Congress to a 'Contract with America'; there were times when Roosevelt barely needed it, and times when Congress, with the McCarthy hearings actually took on the citizens of the USA. I do appreciate that there are deeply entrenched corporate interests in the USA, and there are times when I feel despondent about 'race relations' and bigoted attitudes, but I think when Americans see an abyss open up in front of them -as happened on 9/11- a realisation that you are united by more than what divides you is a comfort -that however rough the trip gets, you will survive. But 50 years?? Let's stick to 10....

I wish more people in my country had your vision for hope and democracy. But they don't, and that's the big problem here.

Think about this. Our national debt is around $12 TRILLION. Every year we run a deficit which means we spend more than we take in. So the debt continues to rise. This will continue for at least 7 to 10 more years. By the time (If it were possible) that we could get our costs low enough to just balance the budget, we would then be at a "Break Even" point. That has a slim chance of happening, but if it did, it wouldn't be for 15 to 20 years. The debt would no longer be increasing, but it would not be going down either. But the interest WOULD be increasing adding to the amount we still owed. Then it would take several more years to get the economy back on a steady and profitable track. Only then, would we be able to start paying down the debt. But with a yearly budget of about $4 Trillion, we would barely be able to pay the interest on the debt. Paying the debt completely where we owe nothing will take many years to do.

That is considering that it was possible because congress finally got blown to smithereens, and replaced by real life people who know the value of money, and how it should be spent.

This country is so big with over population. Our budgets are so high because we need entitlements for the poor, sick, and elderly. Big business runs the USA, not the people. And big business is bigger than the people. Yes we pull together and forget our problems when a major disaster happens. But it never lasts for very long. 9/11 happened 10 years ago now, and how did we respond? An arrogant cowboy decided to take our focus off the people who hurt us, and begin his own private little illegal war with a country that was not involved in 9/11 or a threat to us, to impress his daddy. That war costs us $3.4 trillion and almost 5,000 American soldiers, and all for nothing. The Iraq war cost us twice as much in money and lives as did 9/11. Do you realize what that much money could have done to help this country? That 3.4 Trillion is almost a full years budget for the USA. But when schools and hospitals asked for more money, they were denied. We had plenty for the military and killing brown people though.

As I said Stavros, you have to live here to fully experience the ways of the USA democracy to understand it. We have a strong and noble history. But that's all it is, history. Today is very different here. Yes 50 years would be necessary to fix our problems, but only if congress got off their greedy asses, had a major change of heart, and did something right for this nation. I seriously doubt this will happen too soon.

[Stavros]

I think the nuanced approach would suggest you do have problems but not a crisis; to some extent 'the state' is always in debt, as are most corporations who borrow on the strength of their assets and long-term prospect of return. There was a time in the 1960s and 1970s when the conventional wisdom was that New York City would go bankrup tbecause of its debt, the taxes driving businesses to New Jersey and so on -crime and a crumbling housing stock made it an increasingly dangerous and undesirable place to live, yet now what once were the no-go areas of the Bowery and the Lower East Side are smart, New York is safer than ever, ok maybe its no longer decadent or 'dangerous' in an artistic sense, but over time and with structural management, what was an econmic basket-case in the USA has retained its status as one of the most sought after locations in the world.
Major corporations have what they call a debt/equity ration: the volume of debt related to the total asset of the company -the USA is badly in debt, but in Europe Greece, Ireland and now Portugal are officially bankrupt and even though the UK is not in the EuroZone, we are having to commit billions of Euros to share this debt as well as having the largest deficit in our history.

If Obama has the mandate and the courage in a second term, I think he needs to divert the staggering cost of foreign adventures into major infrastructure projects that would create jobs and imporve transport and communications, as a start anyway. It is a difficult time to be alive and either low-paid or looking for work, but I can't give in to despair having seen so many problems that were said to be intractable unwind and get solved. New York was in as bad a situation as California is now, with some changes to tax law in that state, they could also repair the damage -though whether cities perched on the edge of the San Andreas fault have a secure long term future I cannot day!

[envivision]

To all the Birthers out there:

I will make sure that Obama produces and show you his birth certificate when you prove to me that your &^& G-O-D and his son J-E-B-U-S are not a HOAX.

Happy fu**g Easter day to you.

[Silcc69]

YouTube - Glenn Beck Rips Donald Trump on Fox News w/ Bill O'Reilly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqK0T56onyA&feature=channel_video_title)

LMAO that was pretty funny and true.

[Faldur]

To all the Birthers out there:

I will make sure that Obama produces and show you his birth certificate when you prove to me that your &^& G-O-D and his son J-E-B-U-S are not a HOAX.

Happy fu**g Easter day to you.

Well lets see.. what year is it? And that is tracked how? Oh, after the death of Christ. A world event so cataclysmal that unanimous agreement was reached to reset the world clock to zero.

There is no proof, its like global warming you just have to believe. But unlike global warming we will all find out who was right and wrong. So just be patient, your answer will come. And if you were right you can have a grand laugh, if your able. And if I am right... well that won't be so pretty will it?

Happy Easter brother, He is risen.. :)

[trish]

There is no proof, its like global warming you just have to believe. But unlike global warming we will all find out who was right and wrong. You got it ass-backwards. There IS proof of global warming. But only faith can support a belief in jesus. If nothing is done to prevent further global warming (and it's doubtful anything will be done) its existence will shortly be obvious to everyone. On the other hand, once dead there's no finding anything out...when you cease to exist, among other things, you cease to find out stuff. :)

[onmyknees]

If you want to lure Trish out of wherever it is she is...just mention something about carbon....or climate change. LOL The end is near Faldur....get your affairs in order !

[trish]

...or just mention how sweet Jesus, son of Allah, who's prophet is Abraham, saved your life...the end is near...get your affairs in order! :) By the way, when did I say the end was near??? There you go again, always reading your own fantasy characterizations into what others say. What I'm saying is, "plant palm trees...or not."

[Faldur]

...when you cease to exist, among other things, you cease to find out stuff. :)

Thats where our beliefs differ, this is only a camping trip here, "when you cease to exist" the real life begins. Or global warming happens, one or the other.. you know where my money is.

[trish]

Oh so you believe that when you cease to exist you can still do stuff. Interesting...and very humorous too.

[Faldur]

I'm not so very different from you, I will live forever and you will control the earths thermostat.. :)

[onmyknees]

I'm far more worried about ceasing to exist as a country than I am some Mad Max type cataclysmic climate event that leaves us fending for ourselves.

[trish]

Me too. Did you just catch the onmyknees's disease of assuming he knows what other people think? Did I ever so much as hint I'm worried about a Mad Max type cataclysmic climate event. I believe my claim was that our climate is forced by greenhouse induced heat imbalance to seek a new equilibrium.

BTW I never knew a true conservative who wasn't actually enthralled by the Mad Max scenario. Admit it. You love it when "it's every man for himself" and the "weak" and the "lazy" fall by the wayside. The really worst thing you can imagine is that people unite to alleviate the burdens of living on [a] harsher planet, they work together to conserve what little energy is left and to grow whatever crops can survive and to domesticate new crops and animals. Everybody holds hands, sings kumbaya and socialism reigns. That's what we have to guard against. And it'll happen if you don't heed the warnings. LOL

[Ineeda SM]

To all the Birthers out there:

I will make sure that Obama produces and show you his birth certificate when you prove to me that your &^& G-O-D and his son J-E-B-U-S are not a HOAX.

Happy fu**g Easter day to you.

LMFAO! I love you.

[envivision]

:love1
LMFAO! I love you.

Love you too, buddy.

[Stavros]

The news today is that Mitt Romney is declaring himself available for the White House, as is Tim Pawlenty...

[Ineeda SM]

Romney probably has a good chance compared to the rest of the fools they are running on the GOP ticket. But he will never be elected. He will have a tough time defending his own forced state health care system in Mass when he was governor there, yet being against the same thing from the democrats for the country. It shows he is a hypocrite. It' like him saying it's only good if I offer it. His overpowered mormon religion will hurt him too.

Pawlenty stands the best chance for the GOP ticket as he has not been controversial and has yet to be in a good GOP scandal. The GOP only hope is to run a slightly right of center person with a sparkling clean record. The only thing he has against him is he is boring. He has no background to speak about. I'm not saying he is a bad guy, just that he is a nobody.

[Ben]

YouTube - Donald Trump's Poll Numbers Crash as Barack Obama's Rises (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN0qm9AzZXw)