The future is independently produced TS porn

[BellaBellucci]

I see a lot of the girls here complaining about the way the porn industry operates. It's quality is shoddy. Talent relations are nearly non-existent. The pay is low. The expectations are high. The guys at the top make all the money. The models take all of the criticism (or else!).

So I have a question: why doesn't anybody ever do anything about it? Is it because they don't know how? Because they're scared? Because they're happily plugged into The Matrix? Peer pressure? Maybe they're receiving preferential treatment? Why don't they cut out the middle man? Why don't more girls hire people to build their own sites for more control and more revenue? They pay them once, and they're done. No revenue splitting for the rest of eternity!

Most producers are not necessary for solo sites. And most are also affiliates, so for the solo girls, that means they not only take 50% of your revenue, but so do their hand-selected partners. For instance: if I have a site on SMC and Grooby sells a subscription to it, Grooby gets 50% off the top, and 50% of that goes to SMC. That leaves me with having to do all of the work and pay out of pocket costs such as hair, makeup, wardrobe, location fees, etc for 25%. Even if I sell the subscriptions on my own, my producer still gets 50%. Why? Just because I can't find a less expensive webmaster or $500 a year for Visa processing? Sure, sometimes you may still have to pay 50% for sales, but you would never have to split your share a second time and sales that result from your own independent marketing would net you 100%!!!

If every solo girl had her own site instead of going onto a network, eventually producers would just continue to act as promoters and run their multigirl sites, which would still help the girls who just need to make a quick buck or increase their exposure but also help promote the girls' solo sites in a more equitable manner.

The porn industry, and the TS niche in particular, has a business model that we can change... if we work together. And frankly, it should change. Porn companies have been accused (and largely convicted) of financial exploitation for decades. That said, they have the clout to retain an income even if every girl in the world goes independent, as they could become resellers, which will simultaneous allow them to lose their stigma as exploiters. That's good for not only their brand images, but the image of the industry in general. Porn models and actresses could legitimately be looked at as entrepreneurs instead of whores. :P

I know people find me controversial. I know I tend to have an 'ends justify the means' mentality on some things and I tend not to take prisoners. I'm entirely aware of my own image perception issues. But I'm right, and that's why I do it all. And it frustrates me that people are shooting the messenger despite the message. I hope that someday very soon girls will wake up and realize that they can have more out of life if they just work together and stop letting an oftentimes greedy and unscrupulous industry manipulate them.

~BB~

[kaiser1one]

Interesting read. Were I a multi-billionare I'd help you start.

[LibertyHarkness]

one word why more models dont have indy sites .. LAZYNESS .

[tsmandy]

This demonstrates a clear lack of insight into the world of running a porn site or production.

Having a solo site without means to market, raise capital for shoots ahead of time, convert traffic, etc... is kinda pointless. I had one for years and I chose as a business woman to make the different connections I have made.

Last week I shot with Cherry Torn and shot Juliette Stray, this week its Amber Rayne, Aly Sinclair and January Seraph. Without my company it wouldn't be happening. End of story.

I've been on both ends of the table as a solo-site operator and I happily choose to stay with what I have over what I did. It makes sense for my business needs and career aspirations which have a long term nature and aren't 1 year plans to make a quick buck.

[youshouldtrythislol]

Very interesting read. It will be interesting to see if any more girls come in and share their thoughts on the subject.

[BellaBellucci]

This demonstrates a clear lack of insight into the world of running a porn site or production.

Having a solo site without means to market, raise capital for shoots ahead of time, convert traffic, etc... is kinda pointless. I had one for years and I chose as a business woman to make the different connections I have made.

Last week I shot with Cherry Torn and shot Juliette Stray, this week its Amber Rayne, Aly Sinclair and January Seraph. Without my company it wouldn't be happening. End of story.

I've been on both ends of the table as a solo-site operator and I happily choose to stay with what I have over what I did. It makes sense for my business needs and career aspirations which have a long term nature and aren't 1 year plans to make a quick buck.

That's you. Some of us don't want to sell ourselves out, and if we all work together, that will ESTABLISH a means of production, marketing, etc by cross-promotion. And again, I specifically said that girls should still do the major sites for marketing purposes, just not give them their solo sites. I fail to see how that shows a lack of any insight. If that's your only issue with what I've said, then there's no issue.

If you make a deal with the devil, you're going to get burned. And really, I also said that even if you don't they can still make a profit on your labor anyway through affiliate revenue so if they can still make a buck, they'll start doing so. I'd say that's a means to market, wouldn't you?

~BB~

[AmyDaly]

Don't act like you are all high and mighty "trying" to run a site all on your own. The only reason why you are doing it that way is because nobody else wants to work with you. This thread is just a "Look at me, nobody wants to work with me, so I will do it myself and play it off like I'm cool."

[AmyDaly]

And Grooby/SMC isn't Taking our money. We are paying them to Shoot/Edit/Promote/Host, Etc... They get a very small % considering what they do for us.

[BellaBellucci]

Don't act like you are all high and mighty "trying" to run a site all on your own. The only reason why you are doing it that way is because nobody else wants to work with you. This thread is just a "Look at me, nobody wants to work with me, so I will do it myself and play it off like I'm cool."

... truly spoken like someone who took the red pill. Who runs your site again?

And do you really think I intend to stop producing after I finish my own site? Please. There will be many more where this one is coming from.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

Fail to see how having a business partnership with one of the few women owned and operated companies in the porn industry is selling out even by your standards. Running a business (unless you come from wealth) almost always requires partners. Isa hardly qualifies in my mind as the devil. I've dealt with the gamut of people in this industry, I know who the devil is so to speak, and I feel good about my project. Selling out is for punk bands not porn stars. I'm a producer and distributor of pornography and I work for a company. Its business, and one you seem to lack much insight into.


That's you. Some of us don't want to sell ourselves out, and if we all work together, that will ESTABLISH a means of production, marketing, etc by cross-promotion. And again, I specifically said that girls should still do the major sites for marketing purposes, just not give them their solo sites. I fail to see how that shows a lack of any insight. If that's your only issue with what I've said, then there's no issue.

If you make a deal with the devil, you're going to get burned. And really, I also said that even if you don't they can still make a profit on your labor anyway through affiliate revenue so if they can still make a buck, they'll start doing so. I'd say that's a means to market, wouldn't you?

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

And Grooby/SMC isn't Taking our money. We are paying them to Shoot/Edit/Promote/Host, Etc... They get a very small % considering what they do for us.

Whoever mentioned Grooby? My exact word was 'producers.' And really. You 'can't' divulge the details of your deal, so I guess we have to take your word for it, but suffice it to say, Steven wouldn't be promoting you so heavily on his other sites unless there was money in it or he's getting some other form of compensation. And even at that, the models are hand chosen. If he's only trying to 'help,' then why doesn't he help everyone like he does you? If he's making less profit, then shouldn't he have to make up for it in volume? I mean, that's how Yum works, right? Why the control game?

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Fail to see how having a business partnership with one of the few women owned and operated companies in the porn industry is selling out even by your standards. Running a business (unless you come from wealth) almost always requires partners. Isa hardly qualifies in my mind as the devil. I've dealt with the gamut of people in this industry, I know who the devil is so to speak, and I feel good about my project. Selling out is for punk bands not porn stars. I'm a producer and distributor of pornography and I work for a company. Its business, and one you seem to lack much insight into.

There are plenty of ways to run a business with very little startup. Do you think Donald Trump was born wealthy? Bill Gates? Or even Steven for that matter? He got into this business almost entirely by accident! Sometimes you just profit because you have a terrific idea, are in the right place at the right time, or work your ass off.

I also fail to understand why you would try to make a distinction between the music industry and the porn industry. From my view, they're actually extremely similar, except that selling out music is a lot less humiliating than having someone else badly market your sexuality. There's more money in it and it's a lot less personal for most people.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

I'm not going to indulge you in a long pointless argument that strays far from the original subject just because you have nothing of relevance to contribute to the community or the biz. Get a new hobby.

Are we really going to argue the value of finance?

If you care so much about independent TS porn producers stop attacking them. Make something of yourself and learn to be not a troll.


There are plenty of ways to run a business with very little startup. Do you think Donald Trump was born wealthy? Bill Gates? Or even Steven for that matter? He got into this business almost entirely by accident! Sometimes you just profit because you have a terrific idea, are in the right place at the right time, or work your ass off.

I also fail to understand why you would try to make a distinction between the music industry and the porn industry. From my view, they're actually extremely similar, except that selling out music is a lot less humiliating than having someone else badly market your sexuality. There's more money in it and it's a lot less personal for most people.

~BB~

[WendyWilliams]

Bella there is a reason why you had to go outside of the TS Genre to get someone to shoot your "first hardcore" its because everyone in our genre is just plain TIRED of you. Its sad because in the beginning you meant well but now you proclaim to know so much when in reality you know NOTHING.

FYI Ive done this 10 years, Im one of only a few Independant DVD Production Companies, I ran a solo site MYSELF for many years and Ive dealt with every big name company one on one.

So with that being said do you know that these companies split their 50% with a photographer right? You know that these big companies have access to a large affiliate base, a staff who does editing, promo material, NATS, etc that is expensive and hard for a solo site to get access too.

I joined SMC almost a year ago and Im making more money now than I did when I controlled a higher percentage of my sales!

Selling Out? LOL when did being relevant and successful become selling out? Isa and SMC gives me FULL control of my content and MY site.

I dont need to be part of any movement because I followed the paths of Gia Darling and Joanna Jet and THEN it worked even though I relied on my partner Joanna BUT NOW in order to compete you need those tools that are hard to come by and or too expensive as a Independant owner.

With all due respect Liberty its not laziness at all, not every tgirl has access to Joanna Jet or can shoot content themselves. Very few people have the drive and or access to the things needed to make a successful site so if they decide to join a network which is easier for them than BRAVO to them.

Not many Independant sites (Joanna Jet, Krissy and Delia being exceptions) are making the money that say Kimber/Bailey/Mandy are making.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella there is a reason why you had to go outside of the TS Genre to get someone to shoot your "first hardcore" its because everyone in our genre is just plain TIRED of you. Its sad because in the beginning you meant well but now you proclaim to know so much when in reality you know NOTHING.

You've never acted like you believe that.


FYI Ive done this 10 years, Im one of only a few Independant DVD Production Companies, I ran a solo site MYSELF for many years and Ive dealt with every big name company one on one.

Exactly. What I'm proposing is trying to cut that middle-man. I believe it can be done if there is a collective will.


So with that being said do you know that these companies split their 50% with a photographer right? You know that these big companies have access to a large affiliate base, a staff who does editing, promo material, NATS, etc that is expensive and hard for a solo site to get access too.

All of these things can be done more cheaply if a girl just hires her own webmaster and photog. The only advantage they really get to working in a network is promotion, but of course in my argument I already mentioned that and that girls should shoot for the megasites as well.


I joined SMC almost a year ago and Im making more money now than I did when I controlled a higher percentage of my sales!

As I said to Mandy: it's only because we collectively lack a centralized marketing structure and depend on theirs. That's kind of the whole point of this post.


I dont need to be part of any movement because I followed the paths of Gia Darling and Joanna Jet and THEN it worked even though I relied on my partner Joanna BUT NOW in order to compete you need those tools that are hard to come by and or too expensive as a Independant owner.

Again, not if there was a sort of open-source marketing style, like a webring, or a larger version of what SMC does, but run entirely by transwomen. And I've said many times that I think SMC is the best of the majors, so I'm sort of confused as to why all of the SMC girls are making this about them. Maybe it's because you don't want the other girls to know how exclusive your club really is and what their real chances of being successful members of it are.


Not many Independant sites (Joanna Jet, Krissy and Delia being exceptions) are making the money that say Kimber/Bailey/Mandy are making.

Gee. I wonder why that is. Again, you show a glaring contrast between you and girls who would like to be in your position. There are LOTS of hot t-girls who have the drive and talent to do what you and 'Kimber/Bailey/Mandy,' but many will never be given the chance. Working together in the way I propose could, if done correctly, give every model the opportunity to rise and fall on the merits of their own brand and not have their career be based on just 'getting with the program.'

And that's the real point of this thread. The nuts and bolts of it are irrelevant because most girls will never be privy to them, and that's a shame. It seems like I was wrong about one thing: it's not just men; it's women too who are threatened by a coordination of independent porn marketing.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

If you care so much about independent TS porn producers stop attacking them. Make something of yourself and learn to be not a troll.

I don't care about them beyond that fact that I think they should adhere to a more equitable business model. And 'troll?' Really? This is my thread, remember? In fact you've posted on all of my controversial threads today, so, uhh, yeah. Awfully defensive, aren't we?

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

and grooby/smc isn't taking our money. We are paying them to shoot/edit/promote/host, etc... They get a very small % considering what they do for us.seriously?you might wanna rethink that.

[lisaparadise]

i'm not going to indulge you in a long pointless argument that strays far from the original subject just because you have nothing of relevance to contribute to the community or the biz. Get a new hobby.

Are we really going to argue the value of finance?

If you care so much about independent ts porn producers stop attacking them. Make something of yourself and learn to be not a troll.your not too bright i can tell

[WendyWilliams]

Bella you know NOTHING about me and or the Industry if you think I am 'threatened' by ANYONE. I have done more for girls in this Industry than ANYONE I can think of. I have promoted for FREE, done press releases, given out my contacts, given referrals, fought mainstream porn stereotypes, help new girls get started. Ive worked 10 hard years and reamain relevant by NOT being threatened by anything but my myself. Ive seen girls COME AND GO and will see the same with you!

So please DONT ever assume anything about me because UNLIKE YOU I learned not to let this Industry CONSUME me. I was never handed SHIT from a company and was told NO more times than I can count but Ive never played the victim. There are companies today that wont shoot me but you dont see me on some crusade to make them look bad, its a bad business decision on THEM. My best revenge was being successful!

Continue burning those bridges!

[lisaparadise]

i was never handed shit from a company and was told no more times than i can count but ive never played the victim. There are companies today that wont shoot me but you dont see me on some crusade to make them look bad, its a bad business decision on them. My best revenge was being successful!
very well said

[WendyWilliams]

NOt to go off topic,,,,,,,,,,,Lisa Im going to try and make it up to Canada in June,,,I cant wait to see you and work with you again.

Ok back to Topic LOL

[lisaparadise]

not to go off topic,,,,,,,,,,,lisa im going to try and make it up to canada in june,,,i cant wait to see you and work with you again.

Ok back to topic lolsweet, sounds like a plan little woman

[tsmandy]

You've never acted like you believe that.



Exactly. What I'm proposing is trying to cut that middle-man. I believe it can be done if there is a collective will.



All of these things can be done more cheaply if a girl just hires her own webmaster and photog. The only advantage they really get to working in a network is promotion, but of course in my argument I already mentioned that and that girls should shoot for the megasites as well.



As I said to Mandy: it's only because we collectively lack a centralized marketing structure and depend on theirs. That's kind of the whole point of this post.



Again, not if there was a sort of open-source marketing style, like a webring, or a larger version of what SMC does, but run entirely by transwomen. And I've said many times that I think SMC is the best of the majors, so I'm sort of confused as to why all of the SMC girls are making this about them. Maybe it's because you don't want the other girls to know how exclusive your club really is and what their real chances of being successful members of it are.



Gee. I wonder why that is. Again, you show a glaring contrast between you and girls who would like to be in your position. There are LOTS of hot t-girls who have the drive and talent to do what you and 'Kimber/Bailey/Mandy,' but many will never be given the chance. Working together in the way I propose could, if done correctly, give every model the opportunity to rise and fall on the merits of their own brand and not have their career be based on just 'getting with the program.'

And that's the real point of this thread. The nuts and bolts of it are irrelevant because most girls will never be privy to them, and that's a shame. It seems like I was wrong about one thing: it's not just men; it's women too who are threatened by a coordination of independent porn marketing.

~BB~

Kind of funny. I was contacted by the curator of the Feminist porn awards strongly suggesting I submit my site bc of the reputation I've earned amongst other women producing porn.

Take a look at my movies and tell me I've ever bothered conforming even remotely.

I have a successful career because I work my ass off, invest heavily, look ahead, and treat my co-workers as best as I can (well...the girls at least...).

I've had so many people give me advice over the years and I've always done my own thing. SMC has actually been pretty goddamn patient considering all the crazy shit I pull and how much I've completely refused to cater to cock centric TS porn, the regular complaints I have, the money I demand etc..... I make lesbian/BDSM films for a market that I was told did not and never would exist, and have somehow managed to keep doing it. I'm not making a ton of money, but thats because I like to spend alot on bizarre and complex scenes. SMC & other companies can market it however they want, fact remains I'm representing facets of my sexuality that were previously completely absent the biz. Thats the whole point of a solo site.

Anyways you could be making allies when you are making enemies and you might want to think about that.

[lisaparadise]

Mandy and bella take a time out lol send you bitches to your room god damn it.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella you know NOTHING about me and or the Industry if you think I am 'threatened' by ANYONE. I have done more for girls in this Industry than ANYONE I can think of. I have promoted for FREE, done press releases, given out my contacts, given referrals, fought mainstream porn stereotypes, help new girls get started. Ive worked 10 hard years and reamain relevant by NOT being threatened by anything but my myself. Ive seen girls COME AND GO and will see the same with you!

Actually, you have a reputation for being extraordinarily thin skinned and insecure. This comment could easily be viewed as evidence to that effect. You shouldn't feel the need to defend yourself to me because I never attacked you.


So please DONT ever assume anything about me because UNLIKE YOU I learned not to let this Industry CONSUME me. I was never handed SHIT from a company and was told NO more times than I can count but Ive never played the victim. There are companies today that wont shoot me but you dont see me on some crusade to make them look bad, its a bad business decision on THEM. My best revenge was being successful!

Continue burning those bridges!

I'm not on a crusade to make anyone look bad because I didn't mention any names (in this thread at least). And in the OP I even alluded to the fact that I know I'm controversial, but that doesn't diminish the power of my words. I'm just trying to empower independent models. I'd hardly consider fighting the system to be playing the victim. Maybe my own personal dealings were the catalyst, but if you didn't think my politics haven't taken on a life of their own, you wouldn't be in this thread making it personal.

Oh, and as long as I own a camera and know how to build websites, I'm not going anywhere. So that's pretty much forever. Maybe some of you who oppose me should try to deal with me on a respectful level instead of trying to turn everything into a personal PR battle.

~BB~

[bte]

Bella,

Do you have your own independent porn company?

[the_corner]

Do you think Donald Trump was born wealthy? Bill Gates? Or even Steven for that matter?

Just a correction here...

I don't know about that guy Steven, but I'm fairly confident that you mean Donald Trump... as in the son of Fred Trump, the real estate developer that at his time was worth some 250 million dollars.

And I suppose that by Bill Gates you mean, William Gates III, son of William H. Gates, founder of Preston Gates & Ellis, now K&L Gates, the 9th biggest law firm of the USA.

If you are talking about those two, well, yes, they were born wealthy.

By the way, you do know that Bill Gates had partners when he made Microsoft right?... ever heard about Paul Allen?... in fact Bill Gates only represents around 8% of Microsoft right now, so yes, he does have partners now, like he always had, since the beginning of his company.

I guess that in many ways the success of a company depends on finding the right partners.

I don't want to stir an argument here, I'm not here to fight with anyone, but it should be very clear that having partners is not and should not be necessarily perceived as a bad thing.

Just my two cents.:2cent

[WendyWilliams]

LOL Insecure and thin skin LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Bella you really dont know me and whomever you spoke to sure didnt know me. Ive developed a thick skin in year 3 LOL and insecure BWAHHHHHHH Ive had moments of breaking down because this Industry can be rough but "insecure and thin skin" would not be a word that anyone in the Industry that knows me would use.

Oppose you? There you go with your dillusional moments, I dont care either way if you stay or go. You really think WAY too highly of yourself to think everyone is "out to get you"...If you succeed BRAVO if you dont then it doesnt really matter to me.

Again keep burning those bridges and talking shit eventually its going to catch up to you.


Well enough of dodge ball with Bella, I actually have a business I should be promoting!

I wish you the best Bella!

[BellaBellucci]

Kind of funny. I was contacted by the curator of the Feminist porn awards strongly suggesting I submit my site bc of the reputation I've earned amongst other women producing porn.

Take a look at my movies and tell me I've ever bothered conforming even remotely.

Artistically, I actually love your stuff. :)


I have a successful career because I work my ass off, invest heavily, look ahead, and treat my co-workers as best as I can (well...the girls at least...).

That was cute. :lol:


I've had so many people give me advice over the years and I've always done my own thing. SMC has actually been pretty goddamn patient considering all the crazy shit I pull and how much I've completely refused to cater to cock centric TS porn, the regular complaints I have, the money I demand etc..... I make lesbian/BDSM films for a market that I was told did not and never would exist, and have somehow managed to keep doing it. I'm not making a ton of money, but thats because I like to spend alot on bizarre and complex scenes. SMC & other companies can market it however they want, fact remains I'm representing facets of my sexuality that were previously completely absent the biz. Thats the whole point of a solo site.

You're successful because your material stands out. When I say sell-out, I mean financially. I agree with you here.


Anyways you could be making allies when you are making enemies and you might want to think about that.

I was never really given a chance to do that. I was offered the friendship of the Grooby gang here in L.A. until I did my shoot. When it didn't turn out as planned, I was jettisoned. Nevermind the fact that I've become a better model since then, a promoter, a web developer, and a photog. I had one shitty set, my first, and that was it. I didn't start running my mouth until I felt backed up against the wall. That's the truth.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Oppose you? There you go with your dillusional moments, I dont care either way if you stay or go. You really think WAY too highly of yourself to think everyone is "out to get you"...If you succeed BRAVO if you dont then it doesnt really matter to me.

I'm sorry, if you're not out to get me, then why are you here in this thread? Did you find it that threatening? If you disagree with my point of view, just say so; I've always been reasonable in discussions like this. Why all of the attempts to discredit me and personal jabs? :?

Believe me, if I wanted to get personal, I could. I just don't see the point in doing that. :geek:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Just a correction here...

I don't know about that guy Steven, but I'm fairly confident that you mean Donald Trump... as in the son of Fred Trump, the real estate developer that at his time was worth some 250 million dollars.

And I suppose that by Bill Gates you mean, William Gates III, son of William H. Gates, founder of Preston Gates & Ellis, now K&L Gates, the 9th biggest law firm of the USA.

If you are talking about those two, well, yes, they were born wealthy.

By the way, you do know that Bill Gates had partners when he made Microsoft right?... ever heard about Paul Allen?... in fact Bill Gates only represents around 8% of Microsoft right now, so yes, he does have partners now, like he always had, since the beginning of his company.

I guess that in many ways the success of a company depends on finding the right partners.

I don't want to stir an argument here, I'm not here to fight with anyone, but it should be very clear that having partners is not and should not be necessarily perceived as a bad thing.

Just my two cents.:2cent

Ok, you got me there. But the point was that Trump has lost and recovered his own fortune countless times over the years, and Gates got rich off an idea, not an inheritance. They have the reputation of having risen and fallen and re-risen on their own merits, not those of their parents.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Bella,

Do you have your own independent porn company?

I'm working on it. I'm not going to say it's not harder without money, but it's certainly not impossible. I started my last adult business with only $4300 and made about a half-million dollars in 5 years. I know it can be done because I've already done it once.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

I was never really given a chance to do that. I was offered the friendship of the Grooby gang here in L.A. until I did my shoot. When it didn't turn out as planned, I was jettisoned. Nevermind the fact that I've become a better model since then, a promoter, a web developer, and a photog. I had one shitty set, my first, and that was it. I didn't start running my mouth until I felt backed up against the wall. That's the truth.

~BB~

Oh girl, if you had any idea how many shoots I've been a part of that really unhinged me. Plenty of companies/directors that I don't work with, a few that I have tense but functional relationships with, and a few that I'm always stoked to work with. Thats just the nature of adult. It sucks shit, it hurts, its depressing and you keep going and try not to lose your cool. I spend most of my time with female porn stars, fetish stars, BDSM stars, strippers, Doms, hookers etc ... and believe me being TS just makes the murky pond smaller, not murkier. Adult is a mess and ppl should never be under the impression its not.

[BellaBellucci]

Oh girl, if you had any idea how many shoots I've been a part of that really unhinged me. Plenty of companies/directors that I don't work with, a few that I have tense but functional relationships with, and a few that I'm always stoked to work with. Thats just the nature of adult. It sucks shit, it hurts, its depressing and you keep going and try not to lose your cool. I spend most of my time with female porn stars, fetish stars, BDSM stars, strippers, Doms, hookers etc ... and believe me being TS just makes the murky pond smaller, not murkier. Adult is a mess and ppl should never be under the impression its not.

It's always nice to have a debate with you. You've always been fair. The one thing people need to realize is that I don't usually lose my cool. I may use strong rhetoric, but strength is not the same thing as anger. Thank you for the understanding words, and while I thought it was self-evident that I wasn't calling out anybody in particular, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you of that one last time.

Wendy can doubt me all she likes, but I really believe in what I'm doing, I do have some limited support from the few who aren't afraid to speak up or do something about it, and I hope that, with or without me, the state of the industry will improve for everyone, not just the privileged few who even still are saying it's pretty bad for them too sometimes. I just don't feel like it has to be that way.

If people find me unprofessional, remember that I'm simply mirroring an industry that is largely unprofessional. :geek:

~BB~

[Odelay]

Oppose you? There you go with your dillusional moments, I dont care either way if you stay or go. You really think WAY too highly of yourself to think everyone is "out to get you".


I'm sorry, if you're not out to get me, then why are you here in this thread?

WTF, Bella? You start an interesting thread that invites comments from various girls. Wendy, one of the few who have experience on both sides of the issue, indie and corporate, chooses to contribute some interesting posts. Now you're kicking her out of the thread?

Jeez... take a chill pill, girl.

[BellaBellucci]

WTF, Bella? You start an interesting thread that invites comments from various girls. Wendy, one of the few who have experience on both sides of the issue, indie and corporate, chooses to contribute some interesting posts. Now you're kicking her out of the thread?

Jeez... take a chill pill, girl.

I'm not kicking anyone out. I simply questioned why she was here in the first place if the OP didn't bother her.

I'm chilly like Willy! I'm not the one trying to discredit someone just because I disagree. :lol:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sW65ilskOC8/TQVkCqyxwaI/AAAAAAAAiZ4/fGVo7bTaMso/s1600/ChillyWilly.jpg

~BB~

[wendell]

I must confess that I am very much a phillistine consumer of pornography and have little idea of the processes it goes through before it reaches me as the final product.

Having said that I would have thought, Bella, that without prior experience of filming, lighting e.t.c. that most models would need at least a period of mainstream industry experience simply to be able to produce their own adult material...unless heavily independently wealthy. That's possibly nonsesne but from an outside perspective that seems, at least to me, to be a reasonable argument on it's own for working with industry mainstays.

[BellaBellucci]

I must confess that I am very much a phillistine consumer of pornography and have little idea of the processes it goes through before it reaches me as the final product.

Having said that I would have thought, Bella, that without prior experience of filming, lighting e.t.c. that most models would need at least a period of mainstream industry experience simply to be able to produce their own adult material...unless heavily independently wealthy. That's possibly nonsesne but from an outside perspective that seems, at least to me, to be a reasonable argument on it's own for working with industry mainstays.

Again, it depends on how well the people involved work together. If people cooperate, they will be successful by supporting each other and that's precisely what I'd like to see. I know that's pretty much what SMC stands for, but I think we need something newer, bigger, and more inclusive. And if everyone keeps most of their profits, they should have no problem cross-promoting.

~BB~

[wendell]

From what i've read in this thread from those intimately involved in the industry it doesn't seem too dissimilar to the business world at large. There are fools you can't deal with, fools you can and some people that it is a genuine pleasure to work alongside. On that basis perhaps you should look at starting a union for adult workers rather than trying to herd a lose conglomerate of individuals together. I realise even as I type this that I may simply be revealing my own ignorance in that there is already a union for transexual pornstars but nevertheless...

[Silcc69]

Damn Bella are you on a 1 girl crusade against the big dogs?

[tsmandy]

I must confess that I am very much a phillistine consumer of pornography and have little idea of the processes it goes through before it reaches me as the final product.

Having said that I would have thought, Bella, that without prior experience of filming, lighting e.t.c. that most models would need at least a period of mainstream industry experience simply to be able to produce their own adult material...unless heavily independently wealthy. That's possibly nonsesne but from an outside perspective that seems, at least to me, to be a reasonable argument on it's own for working with industry mainstays.

Absolutely. Its sadly quite difficult for TS to gain these skills because very few companies in adult allow TS access to this sort of growth. We are for the most part limited to the small niche and few producers who work in it, and thus don't have the regular opportunity to PA on sets like GG in the industry do. Porn is a craft and it takes years to learn how to do it well. Making money off of good material involves a completely different set of skills.

I would much rather get a job at a company like Kink for instance, where I would have access to a lighting tech, other skilled directors input, marketing etc... then start a union. TS need to break out of the ghetto and into the rest of the biz before we can really compete with existing companies.

[wendell]

Fair enough Mandy, I didn't realise how difficult it was for transgendered models in the industry. Possibly it's my own bias but even at twenty five I have seen [or at least though I had seen] an explosion of popularity, and preumably demand, for t.s. porn between now and say seven years ago. I imagined that te walls of industry segregation had been dissolving thanks to sites like Kink.com but is that not so?

[onmyknees]

I must say that as a Mandy fan, she has come out with some really different scenarios for TS ladies, and I find that very intriguing and refreshing. It shows a fertile mind, a freaky, unconventional inclination, sprinkled in with some BDSM and fetish and the final package is mighty fine stuff. If porn is ( and it should be) a mixture of fantasy, realism, seduction, and enchantment, she's got it down ! I love her !!:fuckin:

[tsmandy]

I must say that as a Mandy fan, she has come out with some really different scenarios for TS ladies, and I find that very intriguing and refreshing. It shows a fertile mind, a freaky, unconventional inclination, sprinkled in with some BDSM and fetish and the final package is mighty fine stuff. If porn is ( and it should be) a mixture of fantasy, realism, seduction, and enchantment, she's got it down ! I love her !!:fuckin:

Thanks! I approach porn the same way I play pool or compose music. I try things, I see possibilities and I give them a shot. Sometimes they fail dramatically, don't quite work out, and sometimes they turn out better than I could have hoped for. Always nice to find someone who appreciates it and doesn't think I'm utterly insane.

I have to say though, that most of my ability to try new things is because I've had the good fortune to be close friends with ppl on the straight/BDSM end of the industry. Without my crew, and close friends like Hollie Stevens and Princess Donna I'd never have been able to grow and develop my craft. I've learned a tremendous amount simply by observing and listening to my friends who are working day in and day out, and its really challenged my perspective on the biz. I've been really lucky to have mentors who believe in me and want to see me succeed and I will be the first one to admit that very few TS have that opportunity.

One of the most powerful things about being in the SMC network has been the peer support system it has created and an overall sense of concern for each others success and well being. We may not all see eye to eye, but we are all invested in building the company and improving our product and that is very important.

At this point I spend most of my time pursuing companies and projects that are not currently TS focused, trying to expand my possibilities as a performer and producer and reach a wider audience then before.

[onmyknees]

Thanks! I approach porn the same way I play pool or compose music. I try things, I see possibilities and I give them a shot. Sometimes they fail dramatically, don't quite work out, and sometimes they turn out better than I could have hoped for. Always nice to find someone who appreciates it and doesn't think I'm utterly insane.

I have to say though, that most of my ability to try new things is because I've had the good fortune to be close friends with ppl on the straight/BDSM end of the industry. Without my crew, and close friends like Hollie Stevens and Princess Donna I'd never have been able to grow and develop my craft. I've learned a tremendous amount simply by observing and listening to my friends who are working day in and day out, and its really challenged my perspective on the biz. I've been really lucky to have mentors who believe in me and want to see me succeed and I will be the first one to admit that very few TS have that opportunity.

One of the most powerful things about being in the SMC network has been the peer support system it has created and an overall sense of concern for each others success and well being. We may not all see eye to eye, but we are all invested in building the company and improving our product and that is very important.

At this point I spend most of my time pursuing companies and projects that are not currently TS focused, trying to expand my possibilities as a performer and producer and reach a wider audience then before.

Man, or in this case woman.......does not live by porn alone ! I appreciate your comments Mandy. You reinforce my contention that the mind is the most powerful sex organ of all.

[MrsKellyPierce]

lol..............

[Helvis2012]

The only way to make real money is to own.

[MrsKellyPierce]

The only way to make real money is to own.
;)............

[Dino Velvet]

This is actually a pretty good thread. I joined this site several years ago. At the time, I saw you gals more as objects, basically a collection of body parts. Over the time I've been here, I've read threads like this which have given me an education and understanding of T-Girls as people. I've even found many things in common. It's shocking how many similar interests that me and Aly Sinclair have in common. Never thought that. Love that girl to pieces.

Wendy, Mandy, Amy, and Bella; all you ladies are ambitious and bright. You guys would be a Helluva force if you all joined up.

Lastly... Mandy... your stuff is awesome. You're definitely doing something different. Artistic but very hot. I remember having a discussion with you about a picture you posted where someone was dominating you and had a knife against your wiener. You're a unique and special lady. Your avatar gives me a boner whenever I look at it.

[Boardwalkempire]

Some people have a commodity that is in high demand, and lets just say others don't...so they want socialism and communism in the Ts porn industry lol

Everyone gets pimped, Rappers get pimped, athletes get pimped everyone has a pimp. Money has to trickle up or down no matter what in any profession.

If you want to do it on your own, more power to you. But quit frankly in 2 weeks of membership im tired of hearing you bitch about the industry. Do you and let these other girls do what they do.

If I wanted to uproot and do ts porn and they never gave me a chance I would think, well maybe Im not what they are looking for. Maybe I am not sexy enough, maybe I have a shitty attitude or maybe Im just straight ugly lol. Ether way this is America. and you live in California, a work at will state. Nobody has to give you a fair shake, life is not fair. Welcome to Adulthood. I dont mean to be so blunt and hurt your feelings but thats the truth.


Do something about it by pulling onto your own bootstraps, dont expect anther ts is obligated to help you, if they do be thankful but if they dont, that is no reason to be online and bitch.

Anyways this will be my only post, if you have noticed I have been trying to ingnore you even though you have continued to post about me.

Good luck.

[BellaBellucci]

Wendy, Mandy, Amy, and Bella; all you ladies are ambitious and bright. You guys would be a Helluva force if you all joined up.

You know I <3 you Dino, but what you're asking would bring about Armageddon. The beast would arise, the seas would boil, 'dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!'

http://www.thecaptainsmemos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/peter-venkman-ghostbusters.jpg

~BB~

[Dino Velvet]

You know I <3 you Dino, but what you're asking would bring about Armageddon. The beast would arise, the seas would boil, 'dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!'

http://www.thecaptainsmemos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/peter-venkman-ghostbusters.jpg

~BB~

I've raised dogs and cats together. They got along great.

Look, I know I don't know anything about TS Porn production or what any of you ladies deal with on a daily basis. I just hate to see you guys fight. Fight with us guys. We're the jerks.

[BellaBellucci]

But quit frankly in 2 weeks of membership im tired of hearing you bitch about the industry.

Really troll, you've been here two whole weeks?! You want a cookie, because that statement isn't not going to bring you any respect? :lol:


If I wanted to uproot and do ts porn

Do you really think that's what happened with me? You think I put myself out there and moved cross country just to do porn? I never do anything for just one reason, let alone something so extreme. You must have a pretty low opinion of my judgement and self esteem. :?


Do something about it by pulling onto your own bootstraps, dont expect anther ts is obligated to help you, if they do be thankful but if they dont, that is no reason to be online and bitch.

Since when is offering a solution to a problem considered 'bitching?' This thread is part of me 'pulling myself up by my bootstraps' (which of course is the correct expression). I'm trying make people think. For a troll, you really crack me up. :lol:


Anyways this will be my only post, if you have noticed I have been trying to ingnore you even though you have continued to post about me.

I continue to post about you? Where? You're not even on my radar unless you're trolling me. You're not worth my time. Buzz off, flyboy.

http://www.natsnq.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mr_miyagi.jpg

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Look, I know I don't know anything about TS Porn production or what any of you ladies deal with on a daily basis. I just hate to see you guys fight. Fight with us guys. We're the jerks.:Bowdown:

[BellaBellucci]

*bump*

~BB~

[Dino Velvet]

*bump*

~BB~

You fart?

[BellaBellucci]

You fart?

You wish. :lol:

~BB~

[CORVETTEDUDE]

[QUOTE=Dino Velvet;891371
Look, I know I don't know anything about TS Porn production or what any of you ladies deal with on a daily basis. I just hate to see you guys fight. Fight with us guys. We're the jerks.[/QUOTE]


Well said...we can take the heat!!!:iagree: