Muslims

[Dino Velvet]

Alright folks, lay your cards on the table. No room for the mushy middle here.

[loren]

I guess that you could've included a third option: Good for Nothing.

[onmyknees]

Alright folks, lay your cards on the table. No room for the mushy middle here.

All I can relate brother Dino is my personal life's expierence. I don't suggest that's anyone else's or that it's even the norm. There's been two times in my life when I've seen what I would consider solid, lifelong friendships destroyed by dudes who converted to Islam. The transformation was not only destructive to the friendship, it actually got to the point of hatred....I mean deep hatered, and not on my part...I don't give a shit what religion a person is...I'm pretty much agnostic about that.....but they had an "awakining" and it wasn't peaceful and it wasn't love for the non-muslim. . It was not similar to Ali's or Tyson's conversion which seemed to make them more spirtual and peaceful. So perhaps we're dealing with 2 different types of Muslims?

[Star Angel 86]

Dino M8 I'm laying my cards on the table anytime someone had the look of being from the Middle East I had this lass on my dayshift at Nudes Nudes Nudes she would freak out.I guess she felt they were there for one last lapdance then blow up LAX.

[DW2012]

YouTube - Draw Muhammad Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUgIuHQuxBE)

[lisaparadise]

kill em all isnt this the real reason we have nuclear weapons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7NIwbgtmj8&feature=player_embedded#at=110

[Caff_Racer]

kill em all isnt this the real reason we have nuclear weapons?

All religions are a piece of anachronistic medieval shit. The Vatican should be nuked as well; I mean, their views on most social issues are just as retrograde as the Muslims'.

Atheist and proud of it!

Oh and save me another nuke so that I can set it off in the French parliament and kill the whole fucking government of my country.

[lisaparadise]

All religions are a piece of anachronistic medieval shit. The Vatican should be nuked as well; I mean, their views on most social issues are just as retrograde as the Muslims'.

Atheist and proud of it!

Oh and save me another nuke so that I can set it off in the French parliament and kill the whole fucking government of my country.YouTube - Muslim Demographics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=player_embedded)

[CORVETTEDUDE]

It's not the fact that they're Muslim that's the problem. It's their fanatical take on the religion of Islam. And keep in mind there are many Christian Arabs in the middle East. Bottom line...the whole world is fucked up.

[Caff_Racer]

Christianity, Islam, Judaism... all religions are the same, and all religions must be wiped out... they are the true cancer of society. Once humanity is freed of all religious bullshit, it will be able to move on to accomplish truly great things.

[BrendaQG]

If Christ can say hate the sin and not the sinner... Maybe you can hate the religion but not the religious.

If you who curse the religious and wish them dead can do at least that much...then you will have truly found a better way that religion.

[Caff_Racer]

If Christ can say hate the sin and not the sinner... Maybe you can hate the religion but not the religious.

If you who curse the religious and wish them dead can do at least that much...then you will have truly found a better way that religion.

I do hate the religion and not the religious; I have friends who are practicing Christians, practicing Muslims and practicing Jews and I respect their choice to be religious if that is what they want to do with their lives, fair enough. What I will not accept and what I will always fight against is the religions themselves, who use the gullibility of the religious to try to drag society backwards into obscurantism.

[arnie666]

Dirty child pimping bastards who are scared of women so they have to keep them in ninja suits and confined to one room of the house. I'd deport them all but keep the fit female ones and get them out of those ninja suits,get them addicted to c0ck so they discover their inner sluttiness, and make sure binladen got the videos of them being bent over and fucked up the ass while still wearing their headscarfs by an infidel.

Hell I'd put them on the internet and air drop dvd's on places like afghanistan. Then if they started shit I'd nuke the cunts.

[Caff_Racer]

Dirty child pimping bastards who are scared of women so they have to keep them in ninja suits and confined to one room of the house. I'd deport them all but keep the fit female ones and get them out of those ninja suits,get them addicted to c0ck so they discover their inner sluttiness, and make sure binladen got the videos of them being bent over and fucked up the ass while still wearing their headscarfs by an infidel.

Hell I'd put them on the internet and air drop dvd's on places like afghanistan. Then if they started shit I'd nuke the cunts.



And that is just the type of knee-jerk reaction that the three major religions try to encourage from their faithful, with help from politicians and the press. Which is why all religions need to be done away with, by force if necessary.

[lisaparadise]

Dirty child pimping bastards who are scared of women so they have to keep them in ninja suits and confined to one room of the house. I'd deport them all but keep the fit female ones and get them out of those ninja suits,get them addicted to c0ck so they discover their inner sluttiness, and make sure binladen got the videos of them being bent over and fucked up the ass while still wearing their headscarfs by an infidel.

Hell I'd put them on the internet and air drop dvd's on places like afghanistan. Then if they started shit I'd nuke the cunts.marry me :Bowdown: in 3 short decades europe will be a muslim majority what a fucking joke.

[Silcc69]

And that is just the type of knee-jerk reaction that the three major religions try to encourage from their faithful, with help from politicians and the press. Which is why all religions need to be done away with, by force if necessary.

The whole veil thing is a culture thing really. Some Arab muslims could'nt even marry African muslims.

[Caff_Racer]

marry me :Bowdown: in 3 short decades europe will be a muslim majority what a fucking joke.

Of course, I forgot: Europe is the real enemy of the western world so it should be destroyed...

[loren]

Dirty child pimping bastards who are scared of women so they have to keep them in ninja suits and confined to one room of the house. I'd deport them all but keep the fit female ones and get them out of those ninja suits,get them addicted to c0ck so they discover their inner sluttiness, and make sure binladen got the videos of them being bent over and fucked up the ass while still wearing their headscarfs by an infidel.

Hell I'd put them on the internet and air drop dvd's on places like afghanistan. Then if they started shit I'd nuke the cunts.
:Bowdown:OMG that's classic.:kiss:

[PomonaCA]

Christianity, Islam, Judaism... all religions are the same, and all religions must be wiped out... they are the true cancer of society. Once humanity is freed of all religious bullshit, it will be able to move on to accomplish truly great things.

Nonsense. Christians have founded some of your best universities and hospitals. But keep believing in your great humanity.

[dolce__vita]

All religions are a piece of anachronistic medieval shit. The Vatican should be nuked as well; I mean, their views on most social issues are just as retrograde as the Muslims'.

Atheist and proud of it!

Oh and save me another nuke so that I can set it off in the French parliament and kill the whole fucking government of my country.

You're the reason in 50 years you will be a minority in your own country.

[NascarNation]

kill em all isnt this the real reason we have nuclear weapons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7NIwbgtmj8&feature=player_embedded#at=110

Yes just blow them all up and call it a day!

[PomonaCA]

Yes just blow them all up and call it a day!


Don't be such a hedonist! Spread the fun out a little! Why all in one day? How about a week? What about over Hanukkah or Ramadan? Why, we could start with Detroit, there are a lot of muzzies there anyway. Move on over to Kashmir, slide down to Yemen. National Lampoon's Nuke Islam Vacation.

[NascarNation]

Don't be such a hedonist! Spread the fun out a little! Why all in one day? How about a week? What about over Hanukkah or Ramadan? Why, we could start with Detroit, there are a lot of muzzies there anyway. Move on over to Kashmir, slide down to Yemen. National Lampoon's Nuke Islam Vacation.

You have some good points maybe we can start cleansing our own back yards of them round them all up put them in concentration camps and tourture them like Hitler did.

[PomonaCA]

You have some good points maybe we can start cleansing our own back yards of them round them all up put them in concentration camps and tourture them like Hitler did.


Them and Mariah Carey fans. I can't stand them either.

[Helvis2012]

Way to general.

[NascarNation]

Them and Mariah Carey fans. I can't stand them either.

Its time for Mariah Carey to go away anyway lol

[Dino Velvet]

Dirty child pimping bastards who are scared of women so they have to keep them in ninja suits and confined to one room of the house. I'd deport them all but keep the fit female ones and get them out of those ninja suits,get them addicted to c0ck so they discover their inner sluttiness, and make sure binladen got the videos of them being bent over and fucked up the ass while still wearing their headscarfs by an infidel.

Hell I'd put them on the internet and air drop dvd's on places like afghanistan. Then if they started shit I'd nuke the cunts.

Is this one fit enough?

[Helvis2012]

Is this one fit enough?


She's a keeper Dino. No?

[Dino Velvet]

She's a keeper Dino. No?

Indeed, she is. If she sucks my Crusader Infidel Cock I'd have to keep it a secret from her father. To protect the honor of his family and his own respect and dignity as a man he'd have to crush her head with a big rock.

[Helvis2012]

Is this one fit enough?


Indeed, she is. If she sucks my Crusader Infidel Cock I'd have to keep it a secret from her father. To protect the honor of his family and his own respect and dignity as a man he'd have to crush her head with a big rock.


You're a true humanitarian, Dino. :claps

[ARMANIXXX]

The vast majority of Muslims aren't trying to hurt people.

So far this poll's results are fairly troubling.

[NascarNation]

Is this one fit enough?

On second thought lets keep all the hot Arab ass here and behead the men!

[dan_drade]

Religion = No Good

[Helvis2012]

The vast majority of Muslims aren't trying to hurt people.

So far this poll's results are fairly troubling.


I agree.

[Dino Velvet]

You're a true humanitarian, Dino. :claps

If my American Flag waving, Catholic School going, Tranny Message Board Posting, Whiskey Drinking Pork Chop eating self fucked her Allah would be pissed. I'll snatch him too from the bowels of Hell, put a wig, dress, and make-up on him, call him Allisa then bend her over a stack of Koran's giving her serious donkey punches while making her my bitch finally giving her a mouthful of my special hummus.

[Helvis2012]

If my American Flag waving, Catholic School going, Tranny Message Board Posting, Whiskey Drinking Pork Chop eating self fucked her Allah would be pissed. I'll snatch him too from the bowels of Hell, put a wig, dress, and make-up on him, call him Allisa then bend her over a stack of Koran's giving her serious donkey punches while making her my bitch finally giving her a mouthful of my special hummus.


That's very prudent.

[loren]

If my American Flag waving, Catholic School going, Tranny Message Board Posting, Whiskey Drinking Pork Chop eating self fucked her Allah would be pissed. I'll snatch him too from the bowels of Hell, put a wig, dress, and make-up on him, call him Allisa then bend her over a stack of Koran's giving her serious donkey punches while making her my bitch finally giving her a mouthful of my special hummus.
Wow, how romantic.

[Helvis2012]

Wow, how romantic.


Chivalry is not dead.

[russtafa]

Go Dino you are cool. staunch and so right

[Caff_Racer]

You're the reason in 50 years you will be a minority in your own country.


And what is your authority for that statement? I mean, what exactly do you know about my country socially, politically, etc? Because that's a very sweeping statement you made there.

[arnie666]

And that is just the type of knee-jerk reaction that the three major religions try to encourage from their faithful, with help from politicians and the press. Which is why all religions need to be done away with, by force if necessary.

No just the practice of one needs to be banned in western countries. Islam. The rest have adapted to an extent to modern western societies which are increasingly secular. Take the catholic church, in the past there was the inquisition, then up until the 1970's in ireland they were placing unwed mothers in laundrys to do slave labour and their bastard children in homes to have their bottoms played with by catholic priests. They were also extremely intolerant of practicing homosexuals (although they never advocated hanging them).

The catholic church has understood that you can't behave like that anymore in western democratic societies and has adapted to the times while still observing it's core beliefs. Islam wants to take western societies back to the 7th century by introducing sharia law. The Koran is essentially a book of war and hate.

The catholic church for all it's faults, (I personally dislike it my boss when he came back from the falklands war had a disgusting encounter with a priest which caused him never to enter a catholic church again,he told me about how his sister was treated by the nuns ) isn't strapping bombs to it's followers or calling for the destruction of israel. The jews don't want to institute their own legal system either or preach kill or convert.Nor do the hindus or the sikhs.

Again I might dislike religion myself,personally, but it's only Islam that I see as the cuckoo in the nest, and that won't be tolerant of other people. Well recently I have become very intolerant of them,because Iam sick of their actions and the apologism that occurs from the liberal left. They were pimping underage white girls out in the UK ,pimping them , and the Police and the politicians covered up until it no longer could. There was no condemnation from the muslim community just moans about how unfair they are treated, because to them our women are just cattle.That is just one recent example.

This is why I want all of the dirty bastards out of my country.

[arnie666]

Is this one fit enough?

Oh yes, I'd also fuck a middle eastern looking transexual up the ass and put a sign around her neck saying 'allah' and afterwards rip up pages of the koran up to wipe my cock covered in cum and her shit and then wipe her ass with them. I'd send bin laden and the rest of them that DVD too.

It is a crime not to liberate those pretty muslim girls and not turn them into the whores that western girls are. Let them fuck little boys, they prefer it apparently.

[Nivek]

A lost bunch of sheep. Every religion has crazy fAnAtIcS but their fanatics are evil. I blame organized religion entirely for everything wrong in this world. Fear of god has nothing to do with faith in money.. Yet that's all these religions come down to in the end.

[tiramisu]

kill em all isnt this the real reason we have nuclear weapons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7NIwbgtmj8&feature=player_embedded#at=110


we gonna stick the nuclear in ur big ass hole

[Jericho]

And once we're done with the ragheads, lets start on the niggers, kikes, and left footers.
Only room for WASPS here, folks :shrug


Dumb mutherfukkers!

[Kevin Dong]

Derka derka, shirpaha mohammed jihad!

[dafame]

Interesting. I had no idea that the LBGT community was so prejudice.

[LibertyHarkness]

i dont think i could eat a whole muslim .. small catholic boy perhaps :) in my tummmmehhhhyy ...

[kyoJecours]

lol at the ignorance in this thread. not all muslims = terrorists or fanatics :smh real muslims actually hate those people. but obviously only the ones shouting the loudest get heard. my dad is muslim and even though he's a prick most of my relatives from his side are decent. but then they are about 3 out of 10 on a religious scale. i can't stand the extremists... but then i can't really stand any hardcore religious people. and also the problem is a lot of dumbasses believe everything they read.

[Stavros]

If this was the 1970s or 1980s would you have a poll that asked the question
The Irish -good or bad?

Some topics are beneath contempt, and this is one of them.

[jkfitpro]

WTF at this whole thread. I'm shocked by the out-right racism expressed here. If you think all muslims or any other race or religion can be lumped in to 1 category and judged together, then what a load of uneducated twats you must all be

[Malik4Tgirls]

Brainwashed Followers killing in the name of religion, holy war (jihad)...


very disturbing!

[spolverone]

tha answer is wrong.
is a fascist answer.
free religion in free state

[trish]

Love, good. Hate, no good.

[sunairco]

By the poll numbers, they apparently have done a very good job forming your opinions for you and should be commended for their efforts.


Welcome to the machine boys and girls.
Pamela Geller would be proud.

[thombergeron]

I took a piece of shrapnel through the seam of my body armor on Feb. 17, 1991. The medic who pulled me out of fire was Qatari, and muslim.

A couple of years later, I was with UNPROFOR in Yugoslavia, and actually witnessed dead muslim children killed by Serb militias flying the Eastern Orthodox banner.

So this kind of Muslim=Bad/Christian=Good knuckle-dragging doesn't square too well with my experience. Particularly from people who don't actually know any muslims.

[thx1138]

Clearly, all religion should be abolished. (except Mammon)

[thx1138]

Americans far more likely to die at the hands of the police than terrorists: http://newsblaze.com/story/20090221100148tsop.nb/topstory.html

[lisaparadise]

WTF at this whole thread. I'm shocked by the out-right racism expressed here. If you think all muslims or any other race or religion can be lumped in to 1 category and judged together, then what a load of uneducated twats you must all bedont compare other religions with muslims thats a joke in itself,i dont like any religion period but atleast the other religions stand up against there own fanatics unlike islam thats the difference where are all the muslims standing up against complete ownership of there wives?these people are animals plain and simple not even allowing there wives to show there beautty while hiding behind there religion?fuck outta here,anybody that condones this religion needs to be treated like there wives and lets see how fast you fuckin morons change your tune.

[kyoJecours]

what can you do... people are brought up to believe this book is the word of god and if you don't follow it you're going to hell. life sucks if you're gullible :p

[lisaparadise]

what can you do... people are brought up to believe this book is the word of god and if you don't follow it you're going to hell. life sucks if you're gullible :plol,tia phoenix is a muslim and her religion got her ass behind bars in her muslim country i wonder how she feels about her religeon now?if it werent for canada bailing her ass out she would still be there.

[thombergeron]

where are all the muslims standing up against complete ownership of there wives?

Hey Lisa, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Female Imam Leads Eid Prayer (http://insideislam.wisc.edu/index.php/archives/5621)

Misconceptions of women’s rights under Islam (http://minivannews.com/society/transcript-misconceptions-of-womens-rights-under-islam-11120)

Muslims for Progressive Values (http://www.mpvusa.org/)

[lisaparadise]

Hey Lisa, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Female Imam Leads Eid Prayer (http://insideislam.wisc.edu/index.php/archives/5621)

Misconceptions of women’s rights under Islam (http://minivannews.com/society/transcript-misconceptions-of-womens-rights-under-islam-11120)

Muslims for Progressive Values (http://www.mpvusa.org/)seriously dude?spin out of it ya muslim moron.

[thombergeron]

atleast the other religions stand up against there own fanatics unlike islam

Can you point me to all those Christians who are standing up to what the Lord's Resistance Army is doing on behalf of Jesus in Central Africa?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OrQS5_JlCzM/TAQPz7FSuII/AAAAAAAABII/TsV2G6ZfkUQ/s400/18uganda2_184.jpg

Because mostly what I hear from Christians in this regard is deafening silence.

No idea at all...

[thombergeron]

seriously dude?spin out of it ya muslim moron.

You asked where you could find Muslims standing up on behalf of women and I gave you three examples that took me about 8 seconds to find.

If simple factual evidence is simply spin to you, then that's pretty remarkable dedication to being ignorant.

[lisaparadise]

You asked where you could find Muslims standing up on behalf of women and I gave you three examples that took me about 8 seconds to find.

If simple factual evidence is simply spin to you, then that's pretty remarkable dedication to being ignorant.so your saying muslims for the most part treat there woman the same as christian woman do?seriously?

[thombergeron]

so your saying muslims for the most part treat there woman the same as christian woman do?seriously?

Actually, that's not what I said. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, as well.

Once again, you asked:

"where are all the muslims standing up against complete ownership of there wives" (I'm assuming you meant "their wives.")

I responded with several examples of muslims who hold modern and progressive attitudes toward women's rights. It's not complicated. If you need more examples, they are very easy to find. But it seems as though you're more interested in finding a group of people to denigrate than actually educating yourself.

You also might consider various Christian groups such as the Promise Keepers, which do believe in male ownership of women. It's telling that the muslim-bashers on this board go totally silent every time I bring up the Lord's Resistance Army, a Christian terrorist group that enjoys mutilating and raping women and children.

For the record, I think it's all bullshit, and if, in the 21st Century, you're still worshipping a Stone Age god of any kind, then you're standing in the way of human progress and you need to wake the fuck up.

Just don't be fucking hypocrite and try to pretend that one idiotic superstition is better than any other. God hates hypocrites.

[lisaparadise]

Actually, that's not what I said. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, as well.

Once again, you asked:

"where are all the muslims standing up against complete ownership of there wives" (I'm assuming you meant "their wives.")

I responded with several examples of muslims who hold modern and progressive attitudes toward women's rights. It's not complicated. If you need more examples, they are very easy to find. But it seems as though you're more interested in finding a group of people to denigrate than actually educating yourself.

You also might consider various Christian groups such as the Promise Keepers, which do believe in male ownership of women. It's telling that the muslim-bashers on this board go totally silent every time I bring up the Lord's Resistance Army, a Christian terrorist group that enjoys mutilating and raping women and children.

For the record, I think it's all bullshit, and if, in the 21st Century, you're still worshipping a Stone Age god of any kind, then you're standing in the way of human progress and you need to wake the fuck up.

Just don't be fucking hypocrite and try to pretend that one idiotic superstition is better than any other. God hates hypocrites.we both know i dislike all religions period.i find it amazing that in 2011 there all still idiots who pray to somebody that has zero proof of existance its shocking.

[thombergeron]

I totally agree with you on that. I just think we need to be equally contemptuous of all religions. They're all contemptible.

[lisaparadise]

I totally agree with you on that. I just think we need to be equally contemptuous of all religions. They're all contemptible.co-sign

[CORVETTEDUDE]

we both know i dislike all religions period.i find it amazing that in 2011 there all still idiots who pray to somebody that has zero proof of existance its shocking.


I told ya human beings are fucked up, as a lot, babe!!! And to think, we're the smart ones!!!:hide-1:

[trish]

I totally agree with you on that. I just think we need to be equally contemptuous of all religions. They're all contemptible.


co-sign

Religion is often contemptible. But more often its just sad. But in the sense that they're all equally contemptible when they're contemptible and they're all equally sad, I co-sign as well ... with the stipulation that we let religion wilt of its own accord; i.e. of its own moral failure and its own contradictions with itself and with the world of verifiable facts.

[onmyknees]

Actually, that's not what I said. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, as well.

Once again, you asked:

"where are all the muslims standing up against complete ownership of there wives" (I'm assuming you meant "their wives.")

I responded with several examples of muslims who hold modern and progressive attitudes toward women's rights. It's not complicated. If you need more examples, they are very easy to find. But it seems as though you're more interested in finding a group of people to denigrate than actually educating yourself.

You also might consider various Christian groups such as the Promise Keepers, which do believe in male ownership of women. It's telling that the muslim-bashers on this board go totally silent every time I bring up the Lord's Resistance Army, a Christian terrorist group that enjoys mutilating and raping women and children.

For the record, I think it's all bullshit, and if, in the 21st Century, you're still worshipping a Stone Age god of any kind, then you're standing in the way of human progress and you need to wake the fuck up.

Just don't be fucking hypocrite and try to pretend that one idiotic superstition is better than any other. God hates hypocrites.


Look....I think the poll speaks for itself, and I think all the
controversy surrounding Juan Williams firing from NPR accurately reflects how many Americans feel, as does the poll numbers.............. and he's a black liberal, so save your right wing condemnation bullshit. The two groups you sight are far from some type of moral equivalency. There're hiding in the woods of Idaho for Christ sakes playing army. Look at some of the reputable polling outfits who have taken polls in even moderate Muslim countries like Saudi Ariba...they hate us. They teach it in their schools. Why the fuck is that so hard for some of you to understand? It's a fact. Ok OK ...here comes the obligatory disqualifier........."Not all, but Many" and certainly enough to kill a whole lot of us !! Those rednecks in the woods of Idaho might have a beef with the government, but I'm not worried about then for a second, as fucked up as they are. And save that Timothy McVey trump card you all love to use . Christians are being slaughtered in nearly every Muslim country on earth....do the research and get literate. If that fucker in Times Square wasn't such a clumsy fool, we'd of had hundreds of dead and maimed folks guilty of nothing but walking around NYC during the holidays. Do I hate all Muslims???? No...but I'm certainly apprehensive. As I've said on the other posts....the Blind Sheik ( convicted for his involvenment in the first World Trade Center bombing) was preaching hate and destruction from 3 mosques right in NYC !! If you feel better by calling me Islamaphobic....have at it, but I have a strong sense of self preservation.
If you got a beef with all religions....I get that, but don't try blowing smoke up my ass about Christians being equally as violent or corrupted as Muslims. When Muslims aren't killing other Muslims, they're plotting to kill us. Let's hope they stay preoccupied with each other ! We may have preists doodling little boys and they should be hung by thier thumbs, but they're not plotting to smuggle a dirty bomb into NYC as far as I can tell. Moderate and peaceful Muslims may have an unfair burden seperating themselves from the fanatics, but unless they do.....they're always going to be looked upon with caution. Where are all the moderate muslims speaking out by the way.....?

[lisaparadise]

Where are all the moderate muslims speaking out by the way.....?well there all in flight school,be afraid be very afraid lol

[onmyknees]

well there all in flight school,be afraid be very afraid lol

They say all humor has to have some truth in it to be funny !!!!!!!!!!

[Silcc69]

Look....I think the poll speaks for itself, and I think all the
controversy surrounding Juan Williams firing from NPR accurately reflects how many Americans feel, as does the poll numbers.............. and he's a black liberal, so save your right wing condemnation bullshit. The two groups you sight are far from some type of moral equivalency. There're hiding in the woods of Idaho for Christ sakes playing army. Look at some of the reputable polling outfits who have taken polls in even moderate Muslim countries like Saudi Ariba...they hate us. They teach it in their schools. Why the fuck is that so hard for some of you to understand? It's a fact. Ok OK ...here comes the obligatory disqualifier........."Not all, but Many" and certainly enough to kill a whole lot of us !! Those rednecks in the woods of Idaho might have a beef with the government, but I'm not worried about then for a second, as fucked up as they are. And save that Timothy McVey trump card you all love to use . Christians are being slaughtered in nearly every Muslim country on earth....do the research and get literate. If that fucker in Times Square wasn't such a clumsy fool, we'd of had hundreds of dead and maimed folks guilty of nothing but walking around NYC during the holidays. Do I hate all Muslims???? No...but I'm certainly apprehensive. As I've said on the other posts....the Blind Sheik ( convicted for his involvenment in the first World Trade Center bombing) was preaching hate and destruction from 3 mosques right in NYC !! If you feel better by calling me Islamaphobic....have at it, but I have a strong sense of self preservation.
If you got a beef with all religions....I get that, but don't try blowing smoke up my ass about Christians being equally as violent or corrupted as Muslims. When Muslims aren't killing other Muslims, they're plotting to kill us. Let's hope they stay preoccupied with each other ! We may have preists doodling little boys and they should be hung by thier thumbs, but they're not plotting to smuggle a dirty bomb into NYC as far as I can tell. Moderate and peaceful Muslims may have an unfair burden seperating themselves from the fanatics, but unless they do.....they're always going to be looked upon with caution. Where are all the moderate muslims speaking out by the way.....?

You do know who Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal is dont you?

[onmyknees]

You do know who Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal is dont you?

Yea....isn't he a billionaire Saudi Royal ?

Isn't he the one that mayor Rudy Giuliani told him to stick his post 911 multi million dollar donation to the US where the sun don't shine ??

[Stavros]

Where did the Provisional IRA get a lot of the money from to buy weapons and make bombs that killed men, women and children across Ireland, the UK and continental Europe many more times than we have been attacked by so-called Jihadis? How many people in the 1970s and 1980s viewed Irish people as terrorists simply because they were Irish and their name was Sean or Patrick or Mary, how many were arrested and beaten up by the police because they were Irish, imprisoned on dubious evidence and locked up for years because though innocent, they were Irish. And so on. Americans are struggling with all this because Oklahoma aside they haven't been used to dealing with acts of violence which sadly were all too common in the UK (and in the case of the Basque separatists in Spain); demonising everyone because of the actions of the few is part of the strategy of tension the radicals use, but the truth is that the Official and the Provisional IRA lost more support for a United Ireland than they every gained through their bombs and assassinations; the Palestinians lost years of sympathy because of their idiotic hi-jackings in the 1970s; al-Qaeda itself lost half its membership because of 9/11, and so on. We can do better than this, but its going to be a struggle.

[yodajazz]

http://newsblaze.com/story/20090221100148tsop.nb/topstory.html

-- You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack
-- You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack
-- You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane
-- You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack
--You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack
-- You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack
-- You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack
--You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack
--You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack
--You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist
--You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack
-- You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack
SOURCE: The Progressive Review

Like someone else here said, there is nothing like the fear of some group taking over the world, to control ones own popultion. Now that the two biggest Communist nations are our friends, we need a new, threat to project our fears. So now we have the media to report from around the world, incidents of stupidy by people who are Muslims. Yes there some radicals out there, and some backward practices. But they are not trying to establish Sharia Law, in Oklahoma, despite what you may have heard.

The issues can be addressed, but not by giving away Palestinian land to Israel. Issues may seem that they're about religion, but deeper examination will show it's really about the usual failings in all humanity, greed for money and power, ethinic hatred, etc.

[kyoJecours]

Look at some of the reputable polling outfits who have taken polls in even moderate Muslim countries like Saudi Ariba...they hate us. They teach it in their schools. Why the fuck is that so hard for some of you to understand?

lol what... you mean exactly the same way that 'we' hate 'them'? polls in america would be anti islam so how is that different?


Ok OK ...here comes the obligatory disqualifier........."Not all, but Many" and certainly enough to kill a whole lot of us !! Christians are being slaughtered in nearly every Muslim country on earth....do the research and get literate.

that number is tiny compared to the number of innocent muslim lives lost. not any less significant and each one is tragic... but we hate them for killing our civilians. it's not really any different from their people dying.


If you got a beef with all religions....I get that, but don't try blowing smoke up my ass about Christians being equally as violent or corrupted as Muslims. When Muslims aren't killing other Muslims, they're plotting to kill us.

and that's really the main problem... people can't differentiate between muslims and terrorists. the extremists are a massive minority (in the context of the whole religion) who have a warped view of their faith. but as if there is no christian secs with fucked up views as well?


Moderate and peaceful Muslims may have an unfair burden seperating themselves from the fanatics, but unless they do.....they're always going to be looked upon with caution. Where are all the moderate muslims speaking out by the way.....?

that is a decent point. i dunno... maybe some of them are scared. and from my experience religious people are the most hypocritical anyway. as i said before my dad is muslim, mum is christian... i don't agree with any religion and especially many aspects of islam. but i still know enough about it so say that the way muslim people are portrayed is not all true. the terrorists obviously are fucked in the head but i haven't met a single muslim person who condones them.


Look....I think the poll speaks for itself,

not really... public opinion really only depends on how the media portrays the story. and since the government owns the media i don't need to say any more. and listen i'm not taking sides or defending terrorist etc. i'm just saying it's not one side who is evil... that's on both sides and innocent people also suffer on both sides.

[Paladin]

China is not our friend and Russia is an antagonistic pain in the ass whenever it can be.

[yodajazz]

China is not our friend and Russia is an antagonistic pain in the ass whenever it can be.

OK, the US and China are rivals in some aspects, but arent they our biggest trading partners? Whatever happened to the days of "the evil communist, menance", and all the fear that went with it. Weren't they trying to take over the world, which the exact same thing Islam is now accused of?

I'm not saying there are no issues, but a general fear of all Islam, is not the solution.

[glenntinnyc]

well the big 3 religions all suck,

[CORVETTEDUDE]

China is not our friend and Russia is an antagonistic pain in the ass whenever it can be.

The list of friends of the United States is a very short one.

[thombergeron]

Look....I think the poll speaks for itself, and I think all the
controversy surrounding Juan Williams firing from NPR accurately reflects how many Americans feel, as does the poll numbers.............. and he's a black liberal, so save your right wing condemnation bullshit.

Man, you just continue to talk out of your ass. You have no idea at all what you're talking about.

Juan Williams is not a liberal. One needs to hold liberal viewpoints in order to be a liberal, not just have dark skin. And Americans are afraid of Muslims because people like Juan Williams go on TV and tell them that they should fear Muslims. Q.E.D.


The two groups you sight are far from some type of moral equivalency. There're hiding in the woods of Idaho for Christ sakes playing army.

Promise Keepers is an international Christian men’s organization founded by the head football coach at the University of Colorado Boulder. Their rallies attract thousands. They are very much a mainstream evangelical Christian organization and they firmly believe that men hold dominion over women. The Lord’s Resistance Army is a terrorist organization founded in Uganda that has killed and mutilated tens of thousands of people over the last decade. They kidnap children and force them to serve as soldiers and they use rape as a weapon. And they do it for Jesus. Neither of these groups is in Idaho playing army. Again, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about.


Look at some of the reputable polling outfits who have taken polls in even moderate Muslim countries like Saudi Ariba...they hate us. They teach it in their schools.

A) You have no idea at all what Muslims teach their kids in schools. You’ve never seen a Muslim school in your life.

B) Saudi Arabia is not a moderate Muslim country. It’s a theocracy. Indonesia is a moderate Muslim country. In fact, Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country on the planet. I’ve spent a significant amount of time in Indonesia, and they don’t hate Americans. They don’t even teach it in their schools.


do the research and get literate.

That’s kinda funny, coming from somebody who couldn’t be arsed to google “Promise Keepers.”


If you feel better by calling me Islamaphobic....have at it, but I have a strong sense of self preservation.
It doesn’t make me feel better. I sincerely wish you were not an ignorant bigot. The U.S. and the world would be a lot better if people like you made an effort to be less ignorant.


Moderate and peaceful Muslims may have an unfair burden seperating themselves from the fanatics, but unless they do.....they're always going to be looked upon with caution. Where are all the moderate muslims speaking out by the way.....?

See several quick links I provided earlier in this thread. It’s also not difficult to simply google “Muslims condemn violence” or “Muslims condemn attacks.” But then that would be really inconvenient for your argument, so maybe you should just stick your fingers back in your ears and go, “La la la la…”

Or, we could have some fun by turning this on it’s head. I provided you a golden opportunity to condemn the LRA’s Christian terror campaign, and you declined. Why do you support Christian terrorism?

[fred41]

Man, you just continue to talk out of your ass. You have no idea at all what you're talking about.

Juan Williams is not a liberal. One needs to hold liberal viewpoints in order to be a liberal, not just have dark skin. And Americans are afraid of Muslims because people like Juan Williams go on TV and tell them that they should fear Muslims. Q.E.D.


He didn't say you should fear Muslims...he simply said that if he got on a plane and saw people wearing Muslim clothing (i.e. clearly identifying themselves as Muslims) he would get nervous.

He also mentioned that all Muslims shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of a few extremists.

I suggest that if you're going to accuse someone else of "talking out of their ass"...you should probably not do the same thing.

[thombergeron]

He didn't say you should fear Muslims...he simply said that if he got on a plane and saw people wearing Muslim clothing (i.e. clearly identifying themselves as Muslims) he would get nervous.

This is fucking ridiculous. What's he nervous about? That they're going to paint his toenails?

He sees someone in the cabin in a keffiyeh and his first thought is, Uh oh, that guy might blow up the plane.

How does that not communicate to people, especially to people watching fucking Bill O'Reilly, that Muslims are dangerous?

Are you a native English speaker? smh

Still no moderate Christians willing to condemn Christian terrorism, I guess?

[fred41]

This is fucking ridiculous. What's he nervous about? That they're going to paint his toenails?

He sees someone in the cabin in a keffiyeh and his first thought is, Uh oh, that guy might blow up the plane.

How does that not communicate to people, especially to people watching fucking Bill O'Reilly, that Muslims are dangerous?

Are you a native English speaker? smh

Still no moderate Christians willing to condemn Christian terrorism, I guess?

There's a huge difference between telling someone they "should" be nervous...and understanding why someone might "feel" nervous.
..and everyone's experiences aren't the same.
...and yeah,...I understand the English language...clearly a whole lot better than you do...you only understand what you want to understand.SMH

[bte]

This is fucking ridiculous. What's he nervous about? That they're going to paint his toenails?

Why would anyone be afraid of Chinese women?

[thombergeron]

There's a huge difference between telling someone they "should" be nervous...and understanding why someone might "feel" nervous.

You may not have noticed that I wasn't the one who brought up Juan Williams in the first place. Plainly, the nuance you have so painstaking parsed was a bit too subtle for mouthbreathers like onmyknees, who now cite Williams' comments as evidence for the widespread fear of Muslim. Again, Q.E.D.

[fred41]

You may not have noticed that I wasn't the one who brought up Juan Williams in the first place. Plainly, the nuance you have so painstaking parsed was a bit too subtle for mouthbreathers like onmyknees, who now cite Williams' comments as evidence for the widespread fear of Muslim. Again, Q.E.D.

You don't win an argument against what you feel is misinformation...with more misinformation.QED

[Dino Velvet]

Why would anyone be afraid of Chinese women?

Every time I show them two twenties they give me a forty dollar head job. Seems like a good deal to me. I like China Ladies.:jerkoff

[onmyknees]

Man, you just continue to talk out of your ass. You have no idea at all what you're talking about.

Juan Williams is not a liberal. One needs to hold liberal viewpoints in order to be a liberal, not just have dark skin. And Americans are afraid of Muslims because people like Juan Williams go on TV and tell them that they should fear Muslims. Q.E.D.



Promise Keepers is an international Christian men’s organization founded by the head football coach at the University of Colorado Boulder. Their rallies attract thousands. They are very much a mainstream evangelical Christian organization and they firmly believe that men hold dominion over women. The Lord’s Resistance Army is a terrorist organization founded in Uganda that has killed and mutilated tens of thousands of people over the last decade. They kidnap children and force them to serve as soldiers and they use rape as a weapon. And they do it for Jesus. Neither of these groups is in Idaho playing army. Again, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about.



A) You have no idea at all what Muslims teach their kids in schools. You’ve never seen a Muslim school in your life.

B) Saudi Arabia is not a moderate Muslim country. It’s a theocracy. Indonesia is a moderate Muslim country. In fact, Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country on the planet. I’ve spent a significant amount of time in Indonesia, and they don’t hate Americans. They don’t even teach it in their schools.



That’s kinda funny, coming from somebody who couldn’t be arsed to google “Promise Keepers.”


It doesn’t make me feel better. I sincerely wish you were not an ignorant bigot. The U.S. and the world would be a lot better if people like you made an effort to be less ignorant.



See several quick links I provided earlier in this thread. It’s also not difficult to simply google “Muslims condemn violence” or “Muslims condemn attacks.” But then that would be really inconvenient for your argument, so maybe you should just stick your fingers back in your ears and go, “La la la la…”

Or, we could have some fun by turning this on it’s head. I provided you a golden opportunity to condemn the LRA’s Christian terror campaign, and you declined. Why do you support Christian terrorism?


Why do you continue to deflect attention off radical Islam and attempt to draw some equivalency between the Promise Keepers and Muslim extremists? I know full well what the Promise keepers are. I understand what you're attempting to do, but it's a huge fail. Here is what Professor J. Terry from Drew University who has studied them for years said in an expose about them..

Racial reconciliation was central to PK’s message back in the 1990s. The genius of PK, in one sense, was that it tapped into that decade’s multicultural zeitgeist, giving it a spiritual spin. The stadium rallies provided tableaux of white, Latino, Asian, Native American, and African American men, singing, holding hands, and praying together in a show of Christian male bonding. True, Promise Keepers provided no theological or political critique of structural racism in the United States—racism was deemed a personal sin to be confessed.

These attitudes about race found their iconic moment at the 1997 DC rally. When white evangelist John Dawson knelt in prayer to ask forgiveness from his African American brothers for his own sin of racism, men of color gathered around him to affirm his repentance and accept his apology. PK rallies always seemed to draw mostly white men, but there was (and remains) a very real and significant African American presence in leadership positions. PK’s current President, Raleigh Washington, a black man, got his start back in the 1990s as PK’s VP for Reconciliation.



That's a little different picture than the one you would have us believe. I don't support them in any way, but you reveal yourself when you bring them up in the same discussion as radical Islam. And again....they seem to pose no threat of violence to anyone other than you....Don't try to draw comparisons that don't exist. It's a totally abstract argument, and it does a disservice to the victims of radical Muslims worldwide. Are you trying to tell me because some Promise Keepers once viewed women as subservient, that's a dotted line to Islam ?? That's laughable and intellectually dishonest. Shame on you....The following paragraph seems to lay your fantasies to waste..(Dr. Terry continues)

The reconciliation of the sexes was a headliner theme. Back in the ’90s, PK had a kind of ladies’ auxiliary, the “Promise Reapers,” who cheered the men on as they arrived for the stadium rallies. But on Friday night Jane Hansen Hoyt, president of Aglow International (the influential evangelical women’s ministry) became the first woman ever to speak at a PK event. And what a powerful speech it was, delivered in a driving rainstorm.

you continue...A) You have no idea at all what Muslims teach their kids in schools. You've never seen a Muslim school in your life.

Hey Mr. Apologist......I've been to Saudi Ariba working on a petroleum pipe line. I know exactly what they teach in many Madrass's and how they live, and don't tell me they don't detest the west..... Don't make assumptions about me based on your limited knowledge of me, and apparently most Americans. It's Ignorant.


"See several quick links I provided earlier in this thread. It’s also not difficult to simply google “Muslims condemn violence” or “Muslims condemn attacks.” But then that would be really inconvenient for your argument, so maybe you should just stick your fingers back in your ears and go, “La la la la…”

That's another knee slapper. There's what a billion Muslims world wide?...and you post a couple links about Muslims who condemn the attack . I'm sure they're are, just like I'm sure I could get a certain portion of the population to say they saw Elvis just leave the building. You can bury your head in the desert sands to avoid the reality and to convince yourself you have all the answers, but I'm telling you it's a fact that polls taken face to face in largely Muslim countries from Egypt to Saudi Ariba, to Afghanistan to Iraq to Lybia, to Pakistan to most recently Turkey that they do not have a favorable view of the US. What does that translate too? A fertile breeding ground for more hate. I'm sorry if that rocks your world, but those are facts. You can find an exception to any situation and You can be my guest and turn the other cheek, and indulge in fantasies, but seared into my memory was on a sunny early fall day I saw people who I probably passed in the street at some point in lower Manhattan, jumping to their death from a fiery inferno, so take your attempt at comparisons to The Promise Keepers, and to other Christians and your attempts to downplay Islamic hatred toward the west and stick it up your hypocritical, misleading ass. I give you facts about Muslim terrorists who planned and plotted attacks on the US while on US soil and you give me some horseshit about the IRA and the promise Keepers????? Your attempt to mitigate radical Islam's world wide attacks by deflecting attention to Christian Groups is weak. Tell me it's false that Christians are being killed and mistreated in most Muslims countries while those governments look the other way. Tell us all. We're waiting. You mention Indonesia....glad you brought that up. I spoke recently to a University Professor who fled there with his wife because of the creeping problem with Muslim fundamentalism. Is he wrong?? When was the last time you were there? Maybe you'd like to tell us about that problem when you're done deflecting our attention. ?? Sometime next month there's going to be Congressional Hearings by the Committe on Homeland Security on this very topic. You can call Rep. King, the chairman an Islamaphobic hater, but that would make you ignorant...so why don't we see what these hearings reveal...??
And finally you ask...".Why do you support Christian terrorism" I don't and by comparision it's rare, but you know what I do support?? That you be forced to watch the unedited , unsanatized version of the 911 bombings, and the search for survivors and then talk to me about Christian terrorism. What's next up for you.....911 was an inside job by the CIA ? Look...here's the bottom line, so save all your comparisons and equlivincies..I have a perfect right to be to be either mildly, or severally suspicious of those identifying themselves as Muslims who I don't know personally...based on the fact that all US attacks were perpetrated by Muslims who moved about us freely and blended into to everyday society. As long as my suspension does not translate into physical action or overt discrimination, I'm not only perfectly free to have those feelings, but probably prudent... despite the outrage by you and other sympathizers. It's called Freedom of Association. Goggle it ! LMAO

And one more thing.......this belongs in the Political Threads. If I want to get the Muslim slant on things, I'll simply tune into Al Jazerra...but here I'd rather be talking to, and looking at pictures of Sexy Ladies.

[SilentTide]

I would like to point out that Religion has been hijacked by extremists for centuries on all sides. We had our Crusades and they had their Jihads...

So when they go to church they are told we WESTERNERS are BAD. When we go to church we are told that Muslims are BAD. This should make you think about religion more than the people. I know a few Muslims personally and they're really nice people. Now they approve of way less things than i do but it doesn't make them evil....

[onmyknees]

lol at the ignorance in this thread. not all muslims = terrorists or fanatics :smh real muslims actually hate those people. but obviously only the ones shouting the loudest get heard. my dad is muslim and even though he's a prick most of my relatives from his side are decent. but then they are about 3 out of 10 on a religious scale. i can't stand the extremists... but then i can't really stand any hardcore religious people. and also the problem is a lot of dumbasses believe everything they read.

Last one for me...again this belongs on the Religion Forum... But Ignorance?????? LMFAO>>> Oh your dad is a muslim...so this is personal to you ?????? Well it's personal to me too for other reasons. ....What do you mean he's a "prick"? I'd like to hear that explanation....And what are are saying that 3 out of 10 that are religious ?? By religious are you saying they're peaceful? Because Bin Laden is religious and so was the blind sheik. . What is a REAL Muslim ? So a suicide bomber yelling God is Great is a fake Muslim ? You may have just made my point unwittingly. Look....if you love peace and denounce radical Islam in all forms, I have no issue with you...why are you looking for one? You should be joining me in denouncing them.

[Dino Velvet]

Very eye-opening poll. Overwhelmingly, this board says Muslims are no good. I agree. Fuck 'em!

I might be considered anti-Islamic but I'm not Islamophobic. Many annoy the shit out of me but I'm not afraid of them.

[rockabilly]

I think Reno 911 said it best ... "there's 2 kinds of muslims , the kill whitey muslims and the kill everybody else muslims."

[thombergeron]

Why do you continue to deflect attention off radical Islam and attempt to draw some equivalency between the Promise Keepers and Muslim extremists?

Ummm… because you continue to insist that all Muslims are evil and to deny that Christians could possibly commit evil themselves. Do you see what happens when you’re unable to understand things in anything other than black and white? You argue yourself into a corner and say a lot of stupid things.


I know full well what the Promise keepers are.

That’s funny, because 24 hours ago you thought they were a militia in Idaho. I told you Google would be handy.


I understand what you're attempting to do, but it's a huge fail. Here is what Professor J. Terry from Drew University who has studied them for years said in an expose about them.

Way to cherry-pick Terry’s essay for irrelevant quotes. I don’t think I ever claimed Promise Keepers were white supremacists, because they’re not. Tony Evan’s, one of the groups founders, is black. In the same essay that you cut –and-pasted from:

“There was Tony Evans too, the Dallas-based pastor who, back in the day, incensed the movement’s critics when he told the guys at the stadium rallies to take back their rightful place as the head of the family, urging their women to submit.”

I know you’re having difficulty following the conversation here, but Lisa claimed Muslims suck because they claim ownership over their wives. I merely pointed out that that’s not an exclusive criticism of Islam, since certain Christian groups, such as the Promise Keepers, believe the same thing.


That's a little different picture than the one you would have us believe. I don't support them in any way, but you reveal yourself when you bring them up in the same discussion as radical Islam.

Again, I think that demanding that other human being submit to you in the name of God is kind of a radical idea. Maybe you don’t, but that would be something that you have in common with radical Islam.


Hey Mr. Apologist......I've been to Saudi Ariba working on a petroleum pipe line. I know exactly what they teach in many Madrass's and how they live, and don't tell me they don't detest the west..... Don't make assumptions about me based on your limited knowledge of me, and apparently most Americans. It's Ignorant.

Given that you described Saudi Arabia as a “moderate Muslim country,” I have an extraordinarily difficult time believing that you’ve ever set foot there. I’ve been there, and it’s a fucking armpit full of intolerant assholes.

And sorry, kiddo. I don’t have to know you to know you have never been in a madrassa in Saudi. If you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know what colossal horseshit that is. Madrassa’s generally don’t invite in American oil workers to peruse their lesson plans.


That's another knee slapper. There's what a billion Muslims world wide?...and you post a couple links about Muslims who condemn the attack.”

You just couldn’t bring yourself to do the google search, huh? You asked where were the moderate Muslims condemning violence. Here are 1.1 million examples for you:

muslims condemn violence - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=muslims+condemn+violence#hl=en&sugexp=gsih&xhr=t&q=muslims+condemn+attacks)

You’re welcome.


but seared into my memory was on a sunny early fall day I saw people who I probably passed in the street at some point in lower Manhattan, jumping to their death from a fiery inferno,

Let me try to state this very simply for you. I despise terrorism, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. But al Qaeda is maybe a couple of thousand guys. The other 999,998,000 Muslims, I don’t really have a problem with. I wish they didn’t insist on wasting humanity’s time with this superstitious bullshit, but I feel the same way about Christians, Jews, etc.


Your attempt to mitigate radical Islam's world wide attacks by deflecting attention to Christian Groups is weak.

I have never once attempted to “mitigate” attacks by radical Islam, nor have I ever defended such attacks, nor apologized for them, nor offered any excuse for violence committed against civilians in any way whatsoever. I defy you to offer a single shred of evidence of my “support” of fanaticism by any group, at all, ever. I uniformly condemn religious extremism in all forms, and I think that all religions are a cancer on humanity.

You, on the other hand, insist on blaming an entire class of innocent people for the actions of a handful of insane people, and denying the existence of violence, murder, and mayhem committed by those with whom you share faith and ideology.


Tell me it's false that Christians are being killed and mistreated in most Muslims countries while those governments look the other way.

It’s false. There are 47 Muslim majority countries in the world. Muslim-Christian sectarian violence is occurring in a handful of those.


Tell us all. We're waiting. You mention Indonesia....glad you brought that up. I spoke recently to a University Professor who fled there with his wife because of the creeping problem with Muslim fundamentalism. Is he wrong?? When was the last time you were there?

I was there 8 weeks ago. The Indonesian archipelago has been experiencing ethnic strife for about a thousand years. It is the most ethnically diverse country on earth. Sectarian violence in Indonesia is ethnic in origin. That ethnicity is some areas is tied to religious observance is not relevant, novel, nor that interesting. You said Muslim everywhere hate Americans. I’m telling you for a fact that Muslim Indonesians do not hate Americans. If you ever get out of your mom’s basement and visit there, you will be 100% safe everywhere you go.


And finally you ask...".Why do you support Christian terrorism" I don't and by comparision it's rare, but you know what I do support?? That you be forced to watch the unedited , unsanatized version of the 911 bombings, and the search for survivors and then talk to me about Christian terrorism.


You should ask this little boy how rare it is. You should ask the Archdiocese of Kigali what they were up to while 800,000 Rwandans Tutsis were being hacked to death, way back before anyone had ever even heard of Osama bin Laden.

http://www.aymu.org/img/Photos/photo%20new/Burnt%20kid.gif

[thombergeron]

You don't win an argument against what you feel is misinformation...with more misinformation.QED

Misinformation? He fucking said it. It's on tape. If you want to give Juan Williams the benefit of the doubt about what he "meant," that's fine. But I don't, and from his comments, it's pretty clear that onmyknees heard the same thing that I did.

[russtafa]

I just wish muslims weren't in Australia .But i don't blame them i blame the Australian government for bringing them here

[tommymageeshemales2]

FFS why on earth does anybody take such time to spout such an amount (Thombergeron and onmyknees I didn't read by the way) of shit about ANY topic other than transsexuals on a fucking transsexual forum.

You might aswell have written all of the above in squeezy cheese on a big cracker and eaten it right away...........either way, nobody would give a shit.

[f1manoz]

Religion as a whole is the major problem, but Islam is a scourge of modern society. A 14th Century doctrine / belief existing in the 21st Century. To think this religion was once the centre of reason and enlightenment during the Christian 'Dark Ages'....

[Schimmel]

Religion as a whole is the major problem, but Islam is a scourge of modern society. A 14th Century doctrine / belief existing in the 21st Century. To think this religion was once the centre of reason and enlightenment during the Christian 'Dark Ages'....

Listen here motha fucka. I am the Resident Luana Araujo Fan, okay? Not you. And by the way, Islam still IS the centre of reason and enlightnement, so shut up.

[onmyknees]

FFS why on earth does anybody take such time to spout such an amount (Thombergeron and onmyknees I didn't read by the way) of shit about ANY topic other than transsexuals on a fucking transsexual forum.

You might aswell have written all of the above in squeezy cheese on a big cracker and eaten it right away...........either way, nobody would give a shit.

Hey shit for brains....I told him to take it to the Political forum...but that's right...you didn't read it....maybe you should have then you wouldn't have looked so stupid!!!!!!!! LMAO..You payin' for the space here?? I didn't think so . And besides that...where the fuck you been if you been if you think the only thing discussed here is transexuals ? Instead of whining and wasting space lamenting about what somebody else said ...why don't you try a contribution and then I'll judge that ! :fu:

[smilingbutt]

I can honestly say that I haven't read a single post from this thread. But my pick of the poll options was "good" simply because I want to believe that that most people are good, despite life being so contrary. As soon as you start trying to define a people/person by saying muslim that really means as much as jewish, black, white, short, sluggish, amphibian (maybe verging on a way that Troy Mc'Clure is gonna love ya) and maybe as much as people that just like wearing socks to bed...I can't take that question with any more seriousness than a homeless person asking me what Plato really meant.

[Stavros]

I just wish muslims weren't in Australia .But i don't blame them i blame the Australian government for bringing them here

A Filipina friend of mine has nothing but bile for Australia, because of attitudes like yours directed at her, not because she is transgendered but because she isn't blonde and blue eyed and six foot tall... the ease with which Australians sledge people who are not 'white' cricket-loving lager louts suggests Muslims are just one category of people on a long list...luckily for you I have a personal pledge never to set foot in the place.

[fastingforlife]

Since 9/11 there have been nearly 17,000 acts of non-combat terror by muslims. There have been about a dozen acts during the same time period by all other religions combined, none by Roman Catholics. the muslim faith is a filthy faith of death. they are the cockroaches of humanity, in desparate need of extermination like any other pesky insect.

[wendell]

It's too simplistic a poll Dino. The religion itself, in my opinion, bad as I'm not a fan of any religion but muslims themselves are far too varied for all of them to be placed into such broad groups.

Terrorism at it's core is a method to even military odds by inspiring fear in civilians. If you are spouting about how all muslims are evil and out to kill you and your loved ones not only are you allowing terrorists to win but actively recruiting for them by displaying the same stupidity and cowardice they do. The West has an undeniable problem in the Islamic world. Some of that is of our own doing, some of it is religous based particuarly in the form of wahabi islam and some of it is simply powerplay between differing nations and regions.

Terrorists want you to stop fighting them and instead fight the populace in which they shelter. It's a tried and tested method of increasing both support and recruitment for their cause. Take the I.R.A. you don't comabt such a group by firebombing Dublin. Too many people try talking tough and end up betraying their own cowardice. Fight muslim terrorists not muslims.

[bte]

I am not going to say that some Muslims are good or some Muslims are bad. I do know that a Muslim man by the name Muzzammil Hassan in Buffalo, New York, who is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV which aimed to show Muslims in a positive light and to get rid of stereotypes surrounding Muslims, beheaded his wife because she wanted a divorce (I think).

I am sure by all accounts he wouldn't be considered extreme, before he did this act. But nobody in their right mind would agree that this type of behavior is acceptable. Honor killings are constantly being taken place even in America. A Muslim cab driver honor killed his two daughters because he felt they were being to westernized. His wife even aided in providing him an alibi even though he killed her children.

Islam is not of peace and I really don't know how anybody can think that.

[wendell]

Crimes like those are repulsive and completely unacceptable BTE and there are elements of islam that are troglodyte in their interpretations. That doesn't mean islam can't be a religion of peace though, millions upon millions of muslims mange to make it that every day.

[bte]

Crimes like those are repulsive and completely unacceptable BTE and there are elements of islam that are troglodyte in their interpretations. That doesn't mean islam can't be a religion of peace though, millions upon millions of muslims mange to make it that every day.

In college, I actually studied Islam. Some elements of Islam are good. They have something called Zagat, which they give money to the poor. But if you look at the polls conducted in the Middle East, then you will see that their way of thinking is sort of fucked up.

[wendell]

plenty of problems in islam no doubt about that BTE but plenty of good as well. Although to be fair I despise religion so good in the sense of not homicidal maniacs rather than choice of philosophy. Take Honour killings. There are lots of then in America as you point out. However there are tens of millions of muslims living in America the moderates far outweighthe demented.

[bte]

plenty of problems in islam no doubt about that BTE but plenty of good as well. Although to be fair I despise religion so good in the sense of not homicidal maniacs rather than choice of philosophy. Take Honour killings. There are lots of then in America as you point out. However there are tens of millions of muslims living in America the moderates far outweighthe demented.

I agree with you. But with the case of the man who beheaded his wife in NY, I am sure that plenty of people would consider him a moderate. A guy who founded a TV company that aimed to quell the stereotypes of Muslims and to put them in a better light, while at the end of the day, he was exactly what he was preaching against.

I do not know, I have met some pretty cool Muslims so I am sure they are out there. Don't know if people know this or not, but Dave Chappelle is a Muslim or was a Muslim not exactly which and he is one of the funniest people on the planet.

Also religion is not bad per say. Its the people that follow the religion are bad. I am not a fan of religion, but at the same time I recognize the purpose that religion has in people lives.

[wendell]

I think the problem is BTE, and it's one we have in Britain to is that most muslims are simply ordinary people that want to get on with their lives. Those who make the most noise about being moderate tend to actually be those with something to hide. That holds true for plenty of other things as well.

We seem to pretty much agree so I want to make it clear that islam has alot to answer for in my opinion and it's practice in some countries is degrading to Mankind and revolting to see. It's just that those in the West have been getting a pretty bad rap since 9/11 and it's only rarely deserved.

[bte]

I think the problem is BTE, and it's one we have in Britain to is that most muslims are simply ordinary people that want to get on with their lives. Those who make the most noise about being moderate tend to actually be those with something to hide. That holds true for plenty of other things as well.

We seem to pretty much agree so I want to make it clear that islam has alot to answer for in my opinion and it's practice in some countries is degrading to Mankind and revolting to see. It's just that those in the West have been getting a pretty bad rap since 9/11 and it's only rarely deserved.

True, but sometimes the bad rap is well deserved, although sometimes it isn't.

[Dino Velvet]

It's too simplistic a poll Dino.

That was the whole point. Vote "Good", "No Good", or walk on by not voting at all. It gets people to stick their own necks out instead of copy and paste someone else's words.

There has been a lot of brutal honesty here which is a good thing. Most all people have some prejudice in their hearts, even if it's against their own people. Some are better at hiding it from the rest of us.

[asianphoenixx]

lol at the ignorance in this thread. not all muslims = terrorists or fanatics :smh real muslims actually hate those people. but obviously only the ones shouting the loudest get heard. my dad is muslim and even though he's a prick most of my relatives from his side are decent. but then they are about 3 out of 10 on a religious scale. i can't stand the extremists... but then i can't really stand any hardcore religious people. and also the problem is a lot of dumbasses believe everything they read.

I 100% agree.
Terorists and (muslim) extremists are nothing to do with Islam.
These few bad people are using Islam as religion for their own benefits.

There are bad and good people everywhere in this entire world..I guess we just have to adapt and be tolerant and open minded for all the differences...and hopefully we will respect and understand each other and be united as the citizens of the world.

I'm not muslim btw, and having no issue to admit if I were one.
I was born and raised in Indonesia, which majority of us are muslim, but I was born Buddhist.

My 2 cents:yingyang:

Tia

[yodajazz]

I am not going to say that some Muslims are good or some Muslims are bad. I do know that a Muslim man by the name Muzzammil Hassan in Buffalo, New York, who is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV which aimed to show Muslims in a positive light and to get rid of stereotypes surrounding Muslims, beheaded his wife because she wanted a divorce (I think).

I am sure by all accounts he wouldn't be considered extreme, before he did this act. But nobody in their right mind would agree that this type of behavior is acceptable. Honor killings are constantly being taken place even in America. A Muslim cab driver honor killed his two daughters because he felt they were being to westernized. His wife even aided in providing him an alibi even though he killed her children.

Islam is not of peace and I really don't know how anybody can think that.

There some things being mixed up here. I think honor killings come from an ethnic heritage, and is not something sanctioned by the Koran. Something I read, said that many people there, dont know the difference themselves. But there were honor killings in ancient Rome. Many men here, commit violence on women who are leaving them, but we dont blame their relgion, in the case of Christianity, or others. In some latin cultures men, get light sentences for killing their wives when they are caught cheating.

I think issues like this, need to be addressed. But not by attacking the religion, but facing the individual issues. I see non-violence as a practice that should be spread, for the good of all.

[kyoJecours]

Last one for me...again this belongs on the Religion Forum... But Ignorance?????? LMFAO>>> Oh your dad is a muslim...so this is personal to you ?????? Well it's personal to me too for other reasons. ....What do you mean he's a "prick"? I'd like to hear that explanation....And what are are saying that 3 out of 10 that are religious ?? By religious are you saying they're peaceful? Because Bin Laden is religious and so was the blind sheik. . What is a REAL Muslim ? So a suicide bomber yelling God is Great is a fake Muslim ? You may have just made my point unwittingly. Look....if you love peace and denounce radical Islam in all forms, I have no issue with you...why are you looking for one? You should be joining me in denouncing them.

it's not personal for me... i just have a better insight into the discussion than a lot of people here. to be honest most of the people who are against islam don't actually have the first clue about the religion... even if they think they do. listen there are many aspects of islam that i disagree with but in essence they are not much different to all other religious people. the misconception which pisses me off is how people associate all muslims with terrorists. the muslim population is HUGE... the percentage who are extremists are TINY in comparison. i denounce radical islam completely but trust me my muslim relatives and all other true muslims probably hate the fanatics more than anybody else because they have their name dragged through the gutter.

and yes the problem is ignorance. i disagree 100% with the entire concept of religion full stop but i still find it important to say that REAL MUSLIMS HATE RADICAL EXTREMISTS and it's not fair for the perception of all muslims to be fanatics. people often quote the koran to show what a terrible religion islam is... but there is a large proportion of modern muslims who understand that a religion which is centuries old needs to be adapted. they treat women equally, they help people who are less fortunate, etc etc. they are decent people. now i know there are many who are the opposite... and i will join you in condemning them but the only point i'm trying to make is that labelling an entire religion and all its followers as evil is ridiculous.

[Helvis2012]

it's not personal for me... i just have a better insight into the discussion than a lot of people here. to be honest most of the people who are against islam don't actually have the first clue about the religion... even if they think they do. listen there are many aspects of islam that i disagree with but in essence they are not much different to all other religious people. the misconception which pisses me off is how people associate all muslims with terrorists. the muslim population is HUGE... the percentage who are extremists are TINY in comparison. i denounce radical islam completely but trust me my muslim relatives and all other true muslims probably hate the fanatics more than anybody else because they have their name dragged through the gutter.

and yes the problem is ignorance. i disagree 100% with the entire concept of religion full stop but i still find it important to say that REAL MUSLIMS HATE RADICAL EXTREMISTS and it's not fair for the perception of all muslims to be fanatics. people often quote the koran to show what a terrible religion islam is... but there is a large proportion of modern muslims who understand that a religion which is centuries old needs to be adapted. they treat women equally, they help people who are less fortunate, etc etc. they are decent people. now i know there are many who are the opposite... and i will join you in condemning them but the only point i'm trying to make is that labelling an entire religion and all its followers as evil is ridiculous.



:iagree: Amen..........

[onmyknees]

Here on a student Visa....looks like any college student after a keg party, but this guy had another party in mind...This is what we're dealing with ......Wake Up !!!!!!


SAUDI BOMB PLOTTER ARRESTED IN TEXAS – Targeted George W. Bush (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/02/saudi-bomb-plotter-arrested-targeted-george-w-bush/)

Posted by Jim Hoft on Thursday, February 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Khalid-Ali-M-Aldawsari-e1298563577626.jpg (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Khalid-Ali-M-Aldawsari.jpg)
Aldawsari, who was lawfully admitted into the United States in 2008 on a student visa and is enrolled at South Plains College near Lubbock. (KOLD 13 (http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=14133622))
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, 20, a Saudi national and a legal resident of Texas, was arrested late Wednesday for allegedly buying chemicals and equipment to make a bomb and researching US targets, including the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush
The New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/us_arrests_saudi_bomb_plotter_targeting_zu7W8odrVh D5Wvsysx9dxO#ixzz1EtPjEwkK) reported:

A Saudi man has been arrested for allegedly buying chemicals and equipment to make a bomb and researching US targets, including the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush, the Department of Justice said Thursday.
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, 20, a Saudi national and a legal resident of Texas, was arrested late Wednesday and faces charges of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.
He is expected to make his first court appearance in Texas on Friday.
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari had obtained his scholarship so that he could come to the US to commit jihad.
KOLD (http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=14133622)reported:

FBI agents also found a notebook at Aldawsari’s residence that appeared to be a diary or journal. According to the affidavit, excerpts from the journal indicate that Aldawsari had been planning to commit a terrorist attack in the United States for years. One entry describes how Aldawsari sought and obtained a particular scholarship because it allowed him to come directly to the United State and helped him financially, which he said “will help tremendously in providing me with the support I need for Jihad.” The entry continues: “And now, after mastering the English language, learning how to build explosives and continuous planning to target the infidel Americans, it is time for Jihad.”
In another entry, Aldawsari allegedly wrote that he was near to reaching his goal and near to getting weapons to use against infidels and their helpers. He also listed a “synopsis of important steps” that included obtaining a forged U.S. birth certificate; renting a car; using different driver’s licenses for each car rented; putting bombs in cars and taking them to different places during rush hour; and leaving the city for a safe place.

[hippifried]

This is what we're dealing with ......Wake Up !!!!!!

Wake up to what? Where's the conspiracy? Who was this bozo working with? How is he any different than that teabaggin' klan/nazi who shot up that crowd in Tucson, other than the success of the attack?

[Helvis2012]

Here on a student Visa....looks like any college student after a keg party, but this guy had another party in mind...This is what we're dealing with ......Wake Up !!!!!!


SAUDI BOMB PLOTTER ARRESTED IN TEXAS – Targeted George W. Bush (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/02/saudi-bomb-plotter-arrested-targeted-george-w-bush/)

Posted by Jim Hoft on Thursday, February 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Khalid-Ali-M-Aldawsari-e1298563577626.jpg (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Khalid-Ali-M-Aldawsari.jpg)
Aldawsari, who was lawfully admitted into the United States in 2008 on a student visa and is enrolled at South Plains College near Lubbock. (KOLD 13 (http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=14133622))
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, 20, a Saudi national and a legal resident of Texas, was arrested late Wednesday for allegedly buying chemicals and equipment to make a bomb and researching US targets, including the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush
The New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/us_arrests_saudi_bomb_plotter_targeting_zu7W8odrVh D5Wvsysx9dxO#ixzz1EtPjEwkK) reported:
A Saudi man has been arrested for allegedly buying chemicals and equipment to make a bomb and researching US targets, including the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush, the Department of Justice said Thursday.
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, 20, a Saudi national and a legal resident of Texas, was arrested late Wednesday and faces charges of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.
He is expected to make his first court appearance in Texas on Friday.
Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari had obtained his scholarship so that he could come to the US to commit jihad.
KOLD (http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=14133622)reported:
FBI agents also found a notebook at Aldawsari’s residence that appeared to be a diary or journal. According to the affidavit, excerpts from the journal indicate that Aldawsari had been planning to commit a terrorist attack in the United States for years. One entry describes how Aldawsari sought and obtained a particular scholarship because it allowed him to come directly to the United State and helped him financially, which he said “will help tremendously in providing me with the support I need for Jihad.” The entry continues: “And now, after mastering the English language, learning how to build explosives and continuous planning to target the infidel Americans, it is time for Jihad.”
In another entry, Aldawsari allegedly wrote that he was near to reaching his goal and near to getting weapons to use against infidels and their helpers. He also listed a “synopsis of important steps” that included obtaining a forged U.S. birth certificate; renting a car; using different driver’s licenses for each car rented; putting bombs in cars and taking them to different places during rush hour; and leaving the city for a safe place.




Yeah, you're right. A few hundred, maybe thousand people should be used to characterize millions. This is why nobody with more than an eighth grade education takes the right seriously.

[russtafa]

Very sneaky people and the left backs them 100 percent

[trish]

Not a hundred percent, rather ((millions-a thousand or so)/millions)x100%.

[russtafa]

I just wish muslims weren't in Australia .But i don't blame them i blame the Australian government for bringing them here

A Filipina friend of mine has nothing but bile for Australia, because of attitudes like yours directed at her, not because she is transgendered but because she isn't blonde and blue eyed and six foot tall... the ease with which Australians sledge people who are not 'white' cricket-loving lager louts suggests Muslims are just one category of people on a long list...luckily for you I have a personal pledge never to set foot in the place. I am glad you are not living here,you should go live with your tea towel wearing mates in the dust where they belong:party::party:

[russtafa]

Australia is very ethnically mixed with Korean's,Thai's,Filipino's and many mediteranean's but the muslims have such a hard time integrating not like the others why? Your view's on Blonde,blue-eyed and six foot women is very stereotypical,not so here in Australia.

[Silcc69]

On May 31, 2009, George Tiller (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/George_Tiller), a physician from Wichita (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Wichita,_Kansas), Kansas (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Kansas) who was nationally known for being one of the few doctors in the United States (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/United_States) to perform late-term abortions (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Late-term_abortion), was shot and killed by Scott Roeder, an anti-abortion (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Anti-abortion) activist. Tiller was killed during a Sunday morning service at his church, where he was serving as an usher. Multiple action groups and media figures have labeled Tiller's killing an act of domestic terrorism,[2] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-1)[3] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-2)[4] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-3)[5] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-4)[6] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-5)[7] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-6)[8] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-JTP0602-7)[9] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-WSJ0624-8)[10] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-9)[11] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-10) and an assassination.


Good ole Christian killers....




http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/06/08/alg_scott_roeder.jpg

[Helvis2012]

Australia is very ethnically mixed with Korean's,Thai's,Filipino's and many mediteranean's but the muslims have such a hard time integrating not like the others why? Your view's on Blonde,blue-eyed and six foot women is very stereotypical,not so here in Australia.



Oh, boy......

[thombergeron]

Here on a student Visa....looks like any college student after a keg party, but this guy had another party in mind...This is what we're dealing with ......Wake Up !!!!!!


Man, you are just breathtakingly stupid. Mere days ago, in this very thread, you responded to three quick links I posted to progressive Muslim congregations. Click back a few pages and read what you said.


That's another knee slapper. There's what a billion Muslims world wide?...and you post a couple links about Muslims who condemn the attack . I'm sure they're are, just like I'm sure I could get a certain portion of the population to say they saw Elvis just leave the building.


And yet here you are, with a story about a single deranged idiot, who you have decided does represent “a billion Muslims world wide.”

Thanks to Silcc69 for handily contributing the story of the deranged idiot who happens to be a Christian. We could go round for round like this forever. That’s the fucking point. Religions of all kinds at best encourage mindlessness and at worst inspire deranged idiocy.

So listen, if you want to abandon free will and worship at the altar, fine. Knock yourself out. But don’t come onto a forum full of transgressives, full of people who have already been condemned by your stupid-ass church, and start prancing around chanting, “Glory glory, Christi Christus, and a pox on all the wogs,” and expect not to have scorn and derision heaped upon you.

And another thing: I know it’s just a pr0n forum on the Internets, but could you do us all a favor and make an effort to write coherently? You really don’t help your case when you can’t even compose a sentence in your native language.

[thombergeron]

This is what we're dealing with

And if this is indeed "what we're dealing with," it appears that the relatively straightforward approach of investigating crimes and arresting criminals is working pretty well. Why "what we're dealing with" should require some sort of global and epochal clash of civilizations is not clear to me.

[russtafa]

The problem comes when these people immigrate to western country's .Their morality and teaching and values don't match ours.

[hippifried]

Australia isn't western,

Morality is the same everywhere. What's immoral is creating stereotypes to falsely justify bias.

[russtafa]

Australia is part of the west.And the morals and customs of these people are not our customs and morals mr hippie

[hippifried]

Customs are different, but they're different everywhere & are merely a point of interest. Morals are universal, & have nothing to do with customs, ideology, or religious beliefs.

Y'all like to babble about "the west" as if it's some sort of homogenous culture. It isn't. European culture is tribal. Not much different than Libya or Afghanistan, just bigger. I'm American. Lots of folks would love to think we're some sort of British offshoot, but that's simply not true. We're not Brits. We're not European at all. We are, of course, the world's dominant culture. With American hegemony, everything changed & everybody's been following along for the last 65 years or so. We officially rejected European tribal culture in the 18th century. Don't try to talk to me about "the west". It's a meaningless term.

[russtafa]

I would like you to try and live in Afghanistan and tell me that the west is a meaningless term.

[thombergeron]

I would like you to try and live in Afghanistan and tell me that the west is a meaningless term.

So here's a pretty fundamental problem. You seem to have gotten an idea from somewhere that there are two poles: the West and the wogs. But that's incorrect. You should spend two weeks in Melbourne, then the following two weeks in Detroit, and then come back here and try to tell us all how they represent the same culture. I think you might have your mind blown.

I do public health research focusing on Pacific Rim populations, and in the 21st century, in economic and cultural terms, the West Coast of North America has more in common with Japan, Hong Kong, and Mexico than it does with Alabama, Greece, and the UK.

[onmyknees]

And if this is indeed "what we're dealing with," it appears that the relatively straightforward approach of investigating crimes and arresting criminals is working pretty well. Why "what we're dealing with" should require some sort of global and epochal clash of civilizations is not clear to me.

You missed the entire point....the thread was about Muslims. The dude is
1. Muslim
2. planning to kill as many people as he possibly could including a President
3. driven by his ideology.
4. Here on a government student visa because of the openess of our society and planned to use that as a means to his mass murdering ends.

He's not a drug dealer, or run of the mill felon...he's a terrorist, and he's Muslim. Seems those two words are mutually inclusive. Stop being an apologist. This is what we're dealing with. My only regret?? He didn't live next to you !!!!!

[trish]

You can't call a culture "western" if its dominate religion is monotheistic and features a Middle Eastern desert god whose scribes wrote in Aramaic...sorry.

[russtafa]

Why not if it go's back to roman times

[trish]

You can't call a culture "western" if its dominate religion is monotheistic and features a Middle Eastern desert god whose scribes wrote in Aramaic...sorry.


Why not if it go's back to roman times
What difference does the time of infestation matter? Christianity overtook the Roman Empire when Constantine abandoned the Greek commitment to reason, mathematics and science for the miracles and magic of an exotic "new-age" (for the times) mind virus. Shortly after that the west completely forgot the "western values" that defined the Greco-Roman culture and entered into the dark ages. "Western Values" were re-introduced to Europe by Muslims during the Crusades. The rediscovery of classical Greek mathematics, science, philosophy and drama propelled Europe into a renaissance of those values. "Western values" were not restored to Europe (because Christianity still dominated the Renaissance) but they weren't lost either. European culture became an amalgam of the old western values of the Greco-Roman period and the new Middle Eastern values found in the distinctly Middle Eastern book known as the Bible. The Middle Eastern influence runs very deep in the modern western world, especially the U.S. It is the life-blood of the Christian religion. The differences between Jews, Christians and Muslims are miniscule. They hate each other because they have so much in common. People who have truly different beliefs from each other are generally indifferent to each other. Strong disagreement on religion requires differing perspectives on a common historical issue to which both parties are strongly committed. You hate them because you are like them.

[thombergeron]

You missed the entire point....the thread was about Muslims. The dude is
1. Muslim
2. planning to kill as many people as he possibly could including a President
3. driven by his ideology.
4. Here on a government student visa because of the openess of our society and planned to use that as a means to his mass murdering ends.

He's not a drug dealer, or run of the mill felon...he's a terrorist, and he's Muslim. Seems those two words are mutually inclusive. Stop being an apologist. This is what we're dealing with. My only regret?? He didn't live next to you !!!!!

Well, no. I addressed your larger point – Muslims are evil and Christians are good – in my prior post, which you, unsurprisingly, chose not to address. I completely understand your point; it’s just that your point is based on ignorance and hypocrisy.

The fact that terrorism is a law enforcement issue is a related point, in that it illustrates that your fear and hatred of Muslims is entirely inappropriate and wildly out of scale with the actual problem at hand.

So we get it. You’re irrationally terrified of Muslims. It’s pathetic, but it’s not an uncommon attitude. What’s more troubling is your steadfast refusal to acknowledge even the very existence of violent Christian chauvinists such as Scott Roeder, Eric Rudolph, the Hutaree, the Order, the Aryan Nations, Arkan’s Tigers, the Lord’s Resistance Army, the Christian Association of Nigeria, the Lebanese Phalange, Janis Simangunsong’s Red Group, the Ilaga, etc. Your broad-brush attacks on Muslims juxtaposed with your blasé indifference to Christian terror are a strong indication that you are a hypocrite.

And still you accuse me of being an apologist for terror, despite your failure to offer even a shred of evidence in support of this accusation. You’ve even upped the ante by expressing regret that I haven’t been murdered. Throwing around baseless accusations while blithely ignoring the clear contradictions in your own argument makes you a demagogue.

So there we go: an impressive record of cowardice, ignorance, hypocrisy, and demagoguery. Nice work.

I can see why Trish enjoys this. There’s something luridly entertaining about handing you your ass over and over again.

[hippifried]

Why not if it go's back to roman times
Romulus & Remus were descended from Turks. Everything we call "western culture" came from the east. There's a theory, not without merit, that Jesus was influenced by the Buddhists who were moving into the area at the time. Civilization itself can be traced back about 8000 years to Iraq. When Rome collapsed, the church elders moved east, back to Turkey. Back to the civilized world. "The West" is a myth.

[onmyknees]

So tell me apologists and deniers......when you heard ( I'm assuming you did hear !) the news of a crazed gunman open fire on US Servicemen in Germany, killing 2 young Airman ,how long was it before you figured out it was yet another fanatical Muslim terrorist screaming God is Great? Judging by the politically correct news media not releasing any details of the shooter until many hours later, I knew it immediately, but it was nice to have my suspicions confirmed. For me there was never a doubt. Just like there was never a doubt he'd been indoctrinated in a local German Mosque. When will some of you people get a grip on what we're dealing with....?

[trish]

When you heard a black woman was beaten with a hammer and then dragged behind a trunk until dead and dumped in a canal, how long did it take you to figure out it wasn't a Muslim terrorist. I'm no Sherlock Holmes here, but I believe the circumstances surrounding a crime are often indicative of who's in the suspect pool.

http://www.rollingout.com/insiderohome/ro-today/9777-black-woman-struck-in-head-with-hammer-dragged-behind-truck-in-texas.html

[onmyknees]

When you heard a black woman was beaten with a hammer and then dragged behind a trunk until dead and dumped in a canal, how long did it take you to figure out it wasn't a Muslim terrorist. I'm no Sherlock Holmes here, but I believe the circumstances surrounding a crime are often indicative of who's in the suspect pool.

http://www.rollingout.com/insiderohome/ro-today/9777-black-woman-struck-in-head-with-hammer-dragged-behind-truck-in-texas.html


That's obviously the difference between you and me. One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal...and you don't need a memo to know what this was. A crime? No Trish....what happened in Germany was not a crime, (the only crime is you calling it a crime) This was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist. You and Napolatano and Holder can call it a crime, if that makes you feel more diplomatic and politically correct, but we know what it was, just like we knew what Ft. Hood was.

[trish]

You don't think dragging a black woman behind a pickup truck is terrorism? The point is: we don't hold all white Christian Texans responsible. Taking guns into town hall meetings is terrorism too. You can call it a crime if you want to be politically correct (lol), but it's pure terrorism. Murder on the other hand is a crime.

[hippifried]

When you heard a black woman was beaten with a hammer and then dragged behind a trunk until dead and dumped in a canal, how long did it take you to figure out it wasn't a Muslim terrorist. I'm no Sherlock Holmes here, but I believe the circumstances surrounding a crime are often indicative of who's in the suspect pool.

http://www.rollingout.com/insiderohome/ro-today/9777-black-woman-struck-in-head-with-hammer-dragged-behind-truck-in-texas.html
Hmmmm... I don't remember that story even hitting the news. Maybe if the klan/nazi's name was Abdul...

[Infern0]

A 17 year old Muslim girl was employed as a Receptionist in a small Conveyancing Office in a Sydney Suburb.... No probs there.


First probem occurred when the 2 other female staff members had to leave the office...

The owner of the firm came out of his office to find a middle aged Lebanese male sitting in his reception area. (Turns out that the girl is not permitted to work in an office with any male without other females present unless a male relative is there to chaperone)...FFS!

Problem 2.... Her job also requires her to transport documents to other firms and also to lodge documents at court.... She was not permitted to leave the office without being chaperoned by a male relative.... so... the same Lebanese guy had to travel with her everywhere (which is not a good look when fronting up to other Law firms)

The girl was told that they had no problem with her being a Muslim... but it was unacceptable to expect that the firm should have to bend over backwards to satisfy her family's moral code.... The male relative was evicted from the office whereupon the girl chose to leave...

Now....The same firm is having to appear before the Equal Opportunity Commission)....with the prospect of a huge fine and compensation to the girl and her family.

HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE FUCKING MAD?

[yodajazz]

That's obviously the difference between you and me. One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal...and you don't need a memo to know what this was. A crime? No Trish....what happened in Germany was not a crime, (the only crime is you calling it a crime) This was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist. You and Napolatano and Holder can call it a crime, if that makes you feel more diplomatic and politically correct, but we know what it was, just like we knew what Ft. Hood was.

So called terrorism is a vague concept. An act is only terrorism, if that is the real purpose of the action whether, intended by the perpertrator, or instructed by others. It someone goes out and commits a crime, inspired by hate speech, its still a crime. The difference is that some may hold the speakers of the hate speech to some responsibility.

The actions of the KKK were done to produce fear and terror. They used Christian ideolgy and sybolism. So should we be trying to prevent a Christian community center from being built here in Cleveland?

[thombergeron]

That's obviously the difference between you and me. One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal.

Wow. Just wow. So Theresa Adell Ardoin deserved to be brutally murdered for walking down the wrong alley? Who's the apologist now?

Also would be interested in your take on how Alice Hawthorne deserved to be killed. Ms. Hawthorne wasn't walking down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs hanging out getting high. She was attempting to enjoy the 1996 Summer Olympics when she was murdered by the Christian terrorist Eric Rudolph. But of course, that would force you to actually acknowledge to existence of Christian violence, which would bring your whole worldview crashing down.

So just stick your fingers back in your ears and go, "La la la la..." Ignorance is strength.

[thombergeron]

Now....The same firm is having to appear before the Equal Opportunity Commission)....with the prospect of a huge fine and compensation to the girl and her family.

HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE FUCKING MAD?

Exactly, dude. Here in California, we are having to expend massive amounts of time, money, and effort because a bunch of out-of-state fundamentalist Christians believe that they can use the levers of state power to impose second-class status on gay Californians. It's a disgrace. Get you silly religion out of my public policy.

[russtafa]

What a load of crap hippie.Smoke some more drugs hippie,and have another brilliant idea!!!lol

[onmyknees]

Wow. Just wow. So Theresa Adell Ardoin deserved to be brutally murdered for walking down the wrong alley? Who's the apologist now?

Also would be interested in your take on how Alice Hawthorne deserved to be killed. Ms. Hawthorne wasn't walking down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs hanging out getting high. She was attempting to enjoy the 1996 Summer Olympics when she was murdered by the Christian terrorist Eric Rudolph. But of course, that would force you to actually acknowledge to existence of Christian violence, which would bring your whole worldview crashing down.

So just stick your fingers back in your ears and go, "La la la la..." Ignorance is strength.


You really are a pathetically ignorant asshole. No one said Ms. Ardion deserved anything. I didn't even refer to her in my response to Trish. God Bless her, but she's irrelevant to my point. I was using a metaphor for what most of us know about the what the real story was at the Frankfort Airport. It was sort of saying ..."you don't need to know which way the wind blows...." but why am I explaining anything to you ? You're a denier. Islamic terrorism....what Islamic terrorism? My sincere hope for you is that you will someday experience the fear that others have endured by coming face to face with these murdering bastards. We've got 2 more dead US soldiers, and several more wounded and you're talking about Christian violence ??? What a clueless moron you are.

[trish]

I didn't even refer to her in my response Of course you did, just not by name. But the point is Ms. Ardion is not the first and she won't be the last black person dragged behind a pickup truck until dead. Hate crimes are examples of terrorism par excellence. That's why her story is directly relevant to your ill-reasoned position. Even though hate crimes by whites against blacks and Hispanics occur with some frequency, we don't hold all white Christian males responsible. Even though there are hate crimes committed by blacks or Hispanics against whites and with some frequency, we don't hold all blacks or Hispanics responsible. Oops! May you do.

I don't deny the existence of Islamic terrorists. I don't apologize for murder. But I'm not going to go through life terrorized by a few assholes and led into the economically expensive, politically cockeyed, morally evil conviction that everybody who follows the Prophet Mohammad is evil. Jesus Fucking H. Christ get a grip on yourself and stop pissing your pants.

[onmyknees]

Get a grip ???? Hey Trish Grip This .....LMAO

Amazon.com: The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness (9780977956302): Lyle H. Rossiter; Jr.; M.D.: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411BpPYAu0L.@@AMEPARAM@@411BpPYAu0L (http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Mind-Psychological-Political-Madness/dp/097795630X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204155982&sr=1-1#reader_097795630X)


This Troll thombergeron deliberately ( probably out of ignorance) attempted to suggest that I was condoning what happened to this woman. Read his post !! I did no such thing....That might work on the high school debating team , but he ain't getting away with that here. Although you didn't go there, it's the same old game with you all. The topic is Islamic Jihad and the shootings in Germany....let's deal with that, and not deflect the discussion to tragic, yet unrelated incidents . If you'd like to start a thread on Theresa Adell Ardoin, I'd be glad to comment if I feel compelled.

[trish]

One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal...and you don't need a memo to know what this was.I don't need a memo to tell how to interpret the above quote either...one just inherently knows the deal here.

[Helvis2012]

You can't call a culture "western" if its dominate religion is monotheistic and features a Middle Eastern desert god whose scribes wrote in Aramaic...sorry.


Not quite. Sorry.....but we have some nice parting gifts for you.
Thanks for playing.

[russtafa]

Not quite. Sorry.....but we have some nice parting gifts for you.
Thanks for playing.
sorry but Australia is not an asian culture and hopefully never will be.And p.s play with your self if you think it is:party:

[onmyknees]

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Press.MinorityNews&ContentRecord_id=58f8c2a7-5056-8059-7687-ca4e53848127


From the ranking member of The Homeland Security Committe. Maybe Trish, Hippie and that other reprobate aren't all that concerned, but thankfully someone is.

[onmyknees]

Problem? What problem?



Ethiopia: Thousands of Muslims Rampage After Alleged Koran Desecration, Five Christian Churches Burned Down.. (http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/04/ethiopia-thousands-of-muslims-rampage-after-alleged-koran-desecration-five-christian-churches-burned-down/)


Washington (http://www.aina.org/news/20110303200115.htm) — International Christian Concern (ICC) has learned that in the past two days, thousands of Muslims have razed five churches and the homes of two evangelists in Asendabo, Ethiopia. Christian leaders are asking for protection after the Muslim attackers continued burning churches even after the federal police were sent to the town.
The Muslims started the attacks yesterday after falsely accusing the Christians of desecrating the Qur’an. More than ten thousand Muslims shouted “Allah Akbar” (Allah is great) as they burned down five evangelical churches. The government sent the federal police force to protect the Christians after the Muslims burned down the first three churches. The Muslims overwhelmed the police force and burned down two more churches today.
Speaking with ICC, Christian leaders expressed their fear that Muslims will start killing the Christians unless the government sends more security forces to contain the Muslim attackers.
At the time of the writing of this report, none of the Muslim attackers have been arrested. The government officials detained some Christians and took them to the nearby Jimma town stating that they need to do that for their own security.
Ethiopia is a Christian majority country and was one of the first nations to accept Christianity. However, in the areas of the country where Muslims are the majority, Christians face attacks.

[trish]

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Press.MinorityNews&ContentRecord_id=58f8c2a7-5056-8059-7687-ca4e53848127


From the ranking member of The Homeland Security Committe. Maybe Trish, Hippie and that other reprobate aren't all that concerned, but thankfully someone is.
The above link undermines the point of your prejudice. Senator Susan Collins, Ranking Republican on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee said...” This plot is yet another example of radicalized extremists working to do us harm from within our borders.” Senator Collins is certainly not warning us that Muslims are despicable, nor is she making the claim that Islam preaches war, nor is she peddling any of the other bigoted shit that you're peddling. Walking into the capitol building and shooting the guards, flying a plane into an IRS building and blowing up a Federal building and a daycare center in Oklahoma are also acts of terrorism by radicalized extremists.

I pay Senator Collins to be concerned. I'm happy to see her do her job and at the same time stay within the bounds of the rational behavior and the U.S. Constitution. I travel quite a bit in Europe and South America. I have an interest in the safety of airline travel (both from a security standpoint and a safety regulations standpoint). If there were a "scale of concern" I'd be more concerned my flight will crash because of a systems failure than because an explosion triggered by a terrorist on board. Being a black transgender woman, I'm have more concern about encounters with bigots with pickup trucks than any of the above concerns. Still, I'm not so concerned that I'm pissing my pants about it at every fucking opportunity. How many of these threads against Muslim's have you participated in to date??

[trish]

One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal...and you don't need a memo to know what this was.According to your reasoning, those evangelicals didn't need a memo to tell them not to settle in Muslim dominated Asendabo, Ethiopia. When you start treating people equally, we might start to take your arguments seriously.

[hippifried]

I still haven't seen any evidence of an overt conspiracy with this Texas bozo. Interesting how under current political rhetorical silliness, it's a "plot" when a Muslim does it, but it's almost always a "lone wolf" when a skinhead klan/nazi does it.

[russtafa]

Hippie how come so many people want to over throw your government.We don't have people wanting to commit terrorism in Australia except for tea towel heads.Is there something wrong with America?

[hippifried]

Goes back to John Calhoun's nonsense & the southern rebellion. There's always a group of malcontents who want to force others to live by their ideology. Unlike some underpopulated hick outpost like upsidedownunder, there's over 300 million people here. Of course there's going to be some bozos who want to go backward & drag the country with them. They're a woeful minority. There's no actual support for armed rebellion in the US. We have an armed populace. Who's side do you suppose they'd take if these morons actually started shooting the place up?

[russtafa]

Sorry hippie are these bozos and malcontents are bad because they are against your government or bad for what they believe in and what do they believe in?What should be done with these people?Shoot them or put them in re-education camps or psychiatric facilities or ship them off to the mines or prison?

[onmyknees]

I still haven't seen any evidence of an overt conspiracy with this Texas bozo. Interesting how under current political rhetorical silliness, it's a "plot" when a Muslim does it, but it's almost always a "lone wolf" when a skinhead klan/nazi does it.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/03/two-new-jersey-men-plead-guilty-to-trying-to-join-al-qaeda-group.html

Guys like you are asleep at the switch, or in denial. ( see above link) Maybe it's burn out...I'm not sure, but you're ignorant, and your ignorance has beget danger.

Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano ( both of whom I'm no fans of) have told us more than once that they, and thier departments are extremely concerned about home grown Islamic
terrorism. But you....well you shrug your shoulders and light up another blunt. I was just watching the evening news...and there to my delight was a gathering in Times Square to protest Congressman King's upcoming hearings. There they were...the well intentioned, yet political neophyte Russell Simmons, The World Trade Center Mosque folks all singing the National Anthem. Strange but I have not seen that before. Where were they holding hands and singing after some of the Islamic attacks? Why do they fear King's hearings so much? We hear this term "moderate Muslims" all the time, but we don't hear the moderate Muslims. That is what Mr. King will be exploring.

Here is what Mr. Holder said . I urge you to read it and get educated.......Seems he's worried, But some others on here.........Nah....what's the big deal ??.....they're just lone wolves. What...me worry ? Get your heads ouuta your asses !


Attorney General Eric Holder: Threat of Homegrown Terrorism "Keeps Me Up At Night"


Posted by Lucy Madison (http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-503544_162-503544.html?contributor=10470021) 15 comments (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20026288-503544.html#addcomm)
In an interview (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/attorney-general-eric-holders-blunt-warning-terror-attacks/story?id=12444727&page=1)with ABC's "Good Morning America," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder spoke of the ongoing fight to protect American national security and expressed his growing concern with the threat of homegrown terror - a danger which he said "keeps me up at night."

"What I am trying to do in this interview is to make people aware of the fact that the threat is real, the threat is different, the threat is constant," Holder told ABC's Pierre Thomas, in an interview that aired Tuesday morning.

"The threat has changed from simply worrying about foreigners coming here, to worrying about people in the United States, American citizens -- raised here, born here, and who for whatever reason, have decided that they are going to become radicalized and take up arms against the nation in which they were born," Holder added.

The attorney general said that of 126 people who have been charged with allegations related to terrorism in the past 24 months, 50 had been American citizens.

"It is one of the things that keeps me up at night," Holder said. "You didn't worry about this even two years ago -- about individuals, about Americans, to the extent that we now do. And -- that is of -- of great concern."

Holder noted that while he was confident in the United States' counter-terrorism efforts, Americans "have to be prepared for potentially bad news."

"The terrorists only have to be successful once," he said.

Holder pointed to Anwar Al Awlaki, a radical Islamic cleric and dual U.S.-Yemeni citizen, as so dangerous as to be considered among the ranks of Osama bin Laden.

"He would be on the same list with bin Laden," Holder said of Al Awlaki. "He's up there. I don't know whether he's one, two, three, four -- I don't know. But he's certainly on the list of the people who worry me the most."

As a U.S. citizen, Holder said, Awlaki possesses a degree of familiarity with American culture that most foreign terrorists lack. And he has been a common link, Holder says, among many American-bred converts to al Qaeda-tied groups.

"He's an extremely dangerous man," Holder said. "He has shown a desire to harm the United States, a desire to strike the homeland of the United States... He is a person who -- as an American citizen -- is familiar with this country and he brings a dimension, because of that American familiarity, that others do not."

"The ability to go into your basement, turn on your computer, find a site that has this kind of hatred spewed ... they have an ability to take somebody who is perhaps just interested, perhaps just on the edge, and take them over to the other side," Holder added of Awlaki and his associates' ability to reach potential converts through the Internet.

Holder dismissed criticism of recent FBI sting operations, which some have argued employed the use of illegal "entrapment," (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/1129/FBI-alleged-Christmas-tree-bomber-thought-9-11-was-awesome) offering that "options are always given all along the way for them to say, 'You know what, I have changed my mind. I don't want to do it.'"

"I have to have all those tools available to me to try to keep the American people safe, and to do the job that I'm supposed to do as a 21st century attorney general," Holder said. "We are doing everything that we possibly can to keep the American people safe...We are vigilant, we are doing everything we can to keep our homeland secure."

When asked about WikiLeaks and the potential prosecution of Julian Assange, Holder said, "it's an ongoing investigation."

"What Wikileaks did, at the end of the day, was harmful to American security, put American agents and properties ... at risk ... and I think for arrogant and misguided reasons," he said.

[hippifried]

Sorry hippie are these bozos and malcontents are bad because they are against your government or bad for what they believe in and what do they believe in?What should be done with these people?Shoot them or put them in re-education camps or psychiatric facilities or ship them off to the mines or prison?
They're bad because they're stupid & too stupid to know it. They're bad because they want to cause the United States to become disunited, & broken into a bunch of independent countries with no commonality. They want to destroy the country by "Balkanizing" it. They want to create cultural separations where there aren't any & keep the States in perpetual conflict with each other. The klan/nazis are organized terrorists. The only difference between them & alQaeda is language & who they've chosen to hate & take their insecurities out on.

But this is the USA, where it's not illegal to be stupid or even insane. You can pretty much talk all the smack you want as long you don't carry out the actions. This isn't Europe or the British Empire, where people get locked up for being assholes. We don't "grant" rights. The founding principle of the US is that rights are innate, & governance is just a tool for making things easier on the general population. Granted, fascism has taken a big bite of the general mindset, but I refuse to buy the idea that it's a consensus. It'll pass. There won't be a shootin' revolution, because we have the choice to overthrow the government every 2 years. The klan/nazis will continue to piss & moan. They managed to infest the teaparty movement, but that won't last. Basically, they're cowards. When the hype dies down, they'll crawl back under their rocks & hide like they always do when they return to the irrelevance they earned. Don't believe everything you see on the internet or the idiot box. In the end, all the ideology is horseshit as long as the founding principle remains.

[russtafa]

The British empire! Hippie king George the fifth is dead and you guys won your war of independence.The British empire is over it no longer exists.

[hippifried]

Oh, I know the empire is dust. If you think about it, we started the cavalcade. But the Commonwealth is still under British rule to a major extent. Not us. We're not part of that at all. We didn't just reject British rule. We rejected the entire European concept of "rule". We're not European at all, & that needs to be understood when trying to lump us in with this idea of "the west". There's a huge difference between "rule" & governance. What you're seeing all over the underdeveloped world right now is the rejection of "rule". Imperialism has never been beneficial to those subjected to it through force. It stifles growth.

[wendell]

I don't believe that's entirely accurate Hippiefried for a number of reasons. The commonwealth is not under British rule or dominion it's members are all fully independent.

Of course America is not European, nor is Australia or Canada. They are however all members of the West. Noone depicts the West as entirely homogenous it's members all have vastly differing cultures but share as an overriding imperative to those differences a dedication to democracy in one form or another.

I'm not sure if it's your intention but you seem to be under the impresssion that places such as Australia and Canada do not govern themselves but are instead ruled. Nothing could be further from the truth whether in the commnwealth or Europe.

Rights are ill defined concepts at best and the American constitution guarrantees them no more or less than say Britain does. There is plenty of room for interpretation and indeed simply change deliberately built into it's structure.

[russtafa]

Hippie is a true American patriot and is waiting for the British to invade cause he knows they are evil lol

[hippifried]

I admit there's no love loss between me & the "British Empire" or any empire really, including our own. Imperialism is counterproductive. Commonwealth countries, regardless of how much autonomy the have in governance, are still part of the prime nation that granted them that status. It's not that hard to understand. We have our own commonwealth outside our shores. Not as extensive of course, because we've only been at this "empire" thingie for a century or so, & those commonwealth nations were taken by kicking the shit out of Europeans for the most part. A commonwealth is not a confederacy. It's part of the prime country. People of the US commonwealth are American citizens. The British Commonwealth is part of the crown.

As for rights: It's one of those things that's hard to define, but you know it when you see it. People make the mistake of thinking that the US Constitution is a list of rights. Not so. It's a list of powers & restrictions on the power of government, as well as the blueprint for government structure. The 9th Amendment (the least looked at or discussed) makes it very clear that the written Constitution is NOT a "just these" list. What makes us different from Europe & the eurocentric is the fundamental founding premise that rights are not granted by the state. That they are innate & unalienable, whether the state officially recognizes them or not. Rights have no borders. They belong to individual human beings because they are human beings. It's the power of the state that's a grant from the people. The state itself, as a political entity, has no rights. The "right of kings" is & always was a philosophical myth.

Another myth is that democracy is a "western" (meaning European) ideal. How so? The European monarchy system didn't collapse until the last century, except for a few that were overthrown via bloodbath. The French for example. They beheaded all the royalty & any relations they could find, who might be able to make a claim to the throne. The rejection of "rule" shouldn't require such measures. It's really too bad that it so often does. I'm an otimist though. I see the rise of free people gaining strength with each generation. One of the perks of getting old with an intact memory I guess.

[wendell]

It is not the British commonwealth though Hippifried it is the commonwealth of nations. The individual, independent countries that comprise it do so entirely of their own volition and at their own discretion. Those who are subjects of the crown are so because they choose to be. It's a method of democracy.

The difference between Europe and America is,if you wish to be jingostic that you are slaves to the whims and beliefs of men long dead. Except of course that is not the case as those same individuals understood that ideally future generations should be masters of their own destiny and so deliberately gave you the power to change the constitution as you see fit, to think for yourselves. Your rights are thereore no more guaranteed tha,for example,my own. All rights are a myth and there existence stretches as far as we are willing to place faith in them and to what extent one is willing to place that faith.

It's not a myth you sem to misunderstand the term Demcracy. There are many forms of Democracy just as there are many forms of Republic. I would presume you would resent the impication your nation is no different to the republic of China or north korea. I would hope you woud have heard of the English civil war as well,the birthplace of modern democracy and the subsequent basis of our, and many other constitutional monarchies. The West is entirely made up of democracies hence it's occasionally rather loose alliance.
.

[wendell]

Also I fail to see why you interpret Western as European.

[hippifried]

Also I fail to see why you interpret Western as European.
Because that's what it is, when describing what is known as traditional western culture. Of course none of that means anything these days because all y'all're tripping over yourselves in the rush to become as American as possible since the end of WWII. So I guess "western culture" is in the process of becoming real western, but it's going to take a while for Europeans & eurocentrics to understand the nature of rights, apparently.




I would presume you would resent the impication your nation is no different to the republic of China or north korea.

Not really. I just find that kind of tripe amusing, coming from those who have no earthly clue what the US is really about.

[wendell]

No it isn't. The West consists of some European countries, America, Australia and Canada and depending on individual tastes sometimes one or two others. Jingoism and propoganda nearly always blind individuals to truth. There has been no rush to become American since world war 2 i'd be intertested to see what you mean by that. Do you perhaps define America as McDonalds? Is that the essence of what America is?

As I told you Western culture consists of a number of countries that hold the same ideological values, democracy, but implement it in various ways. Your pig ignorance of what rights are and how they are defined in Europe as well as apparently your own country is inexcusable for anyone who has access to the internet.

I'm afraid I do know what the U.S. is about and rather sadly clearly more than you do youerslef whicvh is why you've failed to provide a rebuttal to the corrections I have made to your bleatings aboiut subjects you are ignorant of. Next time you craft a reply to me ensure you do some research into the Commonwealth of nations, Constitutional monarchies, The English Civil war, how rights are protected and defined in countries other than your own, and in point of fact how they are protected in your own nation... Then you won't embarrass yourslef so much next time and perpetuate the sterotype [unjustified] that Americans are less intelligent than their European counterparts. Which for someone as sensitively jingostic as you seem to be should be a high priority.

[russtafa]

Hey hippie the British soldiers don't wear red coat's any more.So don't try waiting for them with your squirrel gun lol.

[Ben]

YouTube - Muslim Demographics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=player_embedded)

Interesting.... :)

[Ben]

1.7% - America's Muslim Population 2030

Population projections by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life estimate that the number of Muslims in the U.S will more than double over the next two decades, rising from 2.6 million in 2010 to 6.2 million in 2030, and growing as a share from 0.8% of the total population to 1.7%. The growth in population is in large part due to immigration and higher-than-average fertility among Muslims. The estimated growth will put the American Muslim population on par with the Jewish and Episcopalian populations in the U.S today. These population projections also show that the U.S. will be one of 79 countries with a million or more Muslims in 2030. A majority of the world's Muslims (about 60%) will continue to live in the Asia-Pacific region, about 20% will live in the Middle East and North Africa (as is the case today), 2.7% will reside in Europe and 0.5% will live in the Americas.

[thombergeron]

Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano ( both of whom I'm no fans of) have told us more than once that they, and thier departments are extremely concerned about home grown Islamic terrorism. But you....well you shrug your shoulders and light up another blunt.

So, when Janet Napolitano is concerned about Islamic radicals, she's on the right track, but when she's concerned about right-wing radicals, you mouthbreathers go apeshit:

Statement by U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano on the Threat of Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1239817562001.shtm)

I'll repeat a couple of entirely reasonable challenges that you have thus far failed to address in any way whatsoever:

1. Say something, anything, about right-wing Christian terrorism. You've been offered many, many, many examples of Christian terror from which to choose. So just do it. It's not difficult. Just say, "Eric Rudolph is a misguided psycho," or "Scott Roeder should rot in jail." Anything, at all, to show that you're not completely indifferent to Alice Hawthorne or George Tiller or any of the other victims of Christian terror…

2. Find a single statement that I've made in support of radical Islam or Islamic terrorism. Just one. Even half-hearted support will suffice. You keep throwing out these accusations without any support beyond your inept and ungrammatical rhetoric.

In fact, what you’ll find is that I repeatedly and explicitly reject violence:


Let me try to state this very simply for you. I despise terrorism, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. But al Qaeda is maybe a couple of thousand guys. The other 999,998,000 Muslims, I don’t really have a problem with. I wish they didn’t insist on wasting humanity’s time with this superstitious bullshit, but I feel the same way about Christians, Jews, etc.

I have never once attempted to “mitigate” attacks by radical Islam, nor have I ever defended such attacks, nor apologized for them, nor offered any excuse for violence committed against civilians in any way whatsoever. I defy you to offer a single shred of evidence of my “support” of fanaticism by any group, at all, ever. I uniformly condemn religious extremism in all forms, and I think that all religions are a cancer on humanity.

By way of contrast, you can’t even be arsed to murmur, “That’s a shame” or words to that effect, when informed of children being raped and murdered by the Christian Lord’s Resistance Army. When presented with an article about numerous black people being dragged to death by white people, your response is, Well, the victim should have made better choices.

So I ask you, who is it shrugging their shoulders?

[Ben]

Here's the full article:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth

[Ben]

YouTube - Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvonsjqE2a4)

[thombergeron]

Here's an easy one for you. Back in 2005, August Kreis, a leader of the Christian terror group Aryan Nations wanted to hook up with al Qaeda:

An unholy alliance: Aryan Nation leader reaches out to al Qaeda (http://articles.cnn.com/2005-03-29/us/schuster.column_1_aryan-nation-qaeda-white-supremacists?_s=PM:US)

So here's your opportunity to condemn Christian terror while still hating on the wogs. It's win-win!

[thombergeron]

So when somebody tried to blow up the MLK Day parade in Seattle last month with a bomb laced with rat poison, everybody knew it would turn out to be some filthy raghead here on a student visa, right? I mean, “you don’t need to know which way the wind blows” right?

Oh, wait….

Stevens County man charged with attempted MLK Day bombing in Spokane (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014443763_spokanebomb10m.html)

Not surprised that you've given up on this thread. In the future, when you find yourself in a hole, you might consider not digging any deeper.

Good luck with the literacy thing.

[russtafa]

The Philippines is still haveing trouble with islamic insergents

[onmyknees]

So, when Janet Napolitano is concerned about Islamic radicals, she's on the right track, but when she's concerned about right-wing radicals, you mouthbreathers go apeshit:

Statement by U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano on the Threat of Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1239817562001.shtm)

I'll repeat a couple of entirely reasonable challenges that you have thus far failed to address in any way whatsoever:

1. Say something, anything, about right-wing Christian terrorism. You've been offered many, many, many examples of Christian terror from which to choose. So just do it. It's not difficult. Just say, "Eric Rudolph is a misguided psycho," or "Scott Roeder should rot in jail." Anything, at all, to show that you're not completely indifferent to Alice Hawthorne or George Tiller or any of the other victims of Christian terror…

2. Find a single statement that I've made in support of radical Islam or Islamic terrorism. Just one. Even half-hearted support will suffice. You keep throwing out these accusations without any support beyond your inept and ungrammatical rhetoric.

In fact, what you’ll find is that I repeatedly and explicitly reject violence:



By way of contrast, you can’t even be arsed to murmur, “That’s a shame” or words to that effect, when informed of children being raped and murdered by the Christian Lord’s Resistance Army. When presented with an article about numerous black people being dragged to death by white people, your response is, Well, the victim should have made better choices.

So I ask you, who is it shrugging their shoulders?

you're one of the few people I truly despise on here. You're a one tune blow hard. Run anything past your nose and give you a whiff, and your response is to somehow bring some extreme right wing "christian" group into the mix. In your sick, tormented, anti Christian mind, you could create some sort of conflation to explain away 911. That's a sickness. You try to create some sort of moral equilivency to make your point...you do it constantly. You're the same used scumbag who tried to say I condoned what occured to that lady that was dragged to death when I never even mentioned her in my post. You just did it again. You remain a misinformed, hateful piece of human waste. FLUSH>>> Do you have any friends...or do you just sit home all day reading HA and press releases from the Southern Poverty Law Center? Ahhhhh that felt so good !!!

[russtafa]

the left loves muslims wish they would go and live with them in saudi

[yodajazz]

the left loves muslims wish they would go and live with them in saudi

It's not about loving Muslims per se; its about treating everyone with repspect and dignity, unless they are breaking laws. Its about wanting for others, the same things, I want for myself.

[trish]

Hey, I don't love or hate any fucking religion. I refuse to hate. But I do love yodajazz for supporting the equality and dignity of all law abiding people. I know for many contributors to this thread its all about hate and those nasty people who refuse to hate along with them. But you're way off base. It's about wanting for others, the same things, I want for myself.

[thombergeron]

you're one of the few people I truly despise on here. You're a one tune blow hard.

I believe what you meant to say is “one-note blowhard.“ But son, you're on record as hating a billion people, so the fact that you despise me has no meaning at all. Besides, what was it JC said to the Pharisees? Something about loving thy neighbor, as I recall. Maybe you’re not as good a Christian as you think you are.

Nonetheless, I can see how I might make you uncomfortable. I am forcing you to confront your own hypocrisy. You think Muslims should be held collectively responsible for the actions of a few, and yet you steadfastly refuse to apply the same standard to others with whom you share ideology/theology/etc. Unfortunately, that makes you a hypocrite. You can despise me for pointing that out, but it doesn't make you less of a hypocrite. The only thing that's going to make you less of a hypocrite is for you to adopt a non-hypocritical attitude.


Run anything past your nose and give you a whiff, and your response is to somehow bring some extreme right wing "christian" group into the mix.

See, this is what we call projection, kiddo. You’re not running “anything past [my] nose,” you’re specifically posting individual stories of extreme right-wing Muslims. Under the circumstances, it seems relevant to point out the simple existence of extreme right-wing Christians. But, clearly, these simple facts are more than your fevered little mind can handle, so you respond by projecting your own hateful inadequacy onto me.


you could create some sort of conflation to explain away 911.

Again, I have never done anything like this. I have never once excused, apologized for, nor “explained away” violence of any kind. I have asked you repeatedly to back up your accusations with things that I have actually said, and you have signally failed to do so.

You, on the other hand:


That's obviously the difference between you and me. One doesn't need a memo to tell you not to walk down a dark alley with a bunch of thugs are hanging out getting high, you just inherently know the deal

And yet…


You're the same used scumbag who tried to say I condoned what occured to that lady that was dragged to death when I never even mentioned her in my post.

The thing about a written dialog is that you can’t later go back and claim you didn’t say something that you actually said. “Occurred” has two r’s, by the way.


Do you have any friends...or do you just sit home all day reading HA and press releases from the Southern Poverty Law Center? Ahhhhh that felt so good !!!

Ummmmm…. Kiddo, you have been here half as long as I have and you have five times as many posts. So who is it that’s on here all day? If it had been me, I would have checked something like that before making that kind of a statement. But then, you don’t come across as a very thoughtful person.

See, here’s the thing. I’m a big believer in evidence. And in order to believe that Christianity is somehow morally superior to Islam, you have to ignore evidence, as you have so insistently done for the last… 20 pages of this thread.

So, here's your ass. Let me know when you’re done adding me to your “Despise List,” and we can get back to discussing things like evidence and facts.

[russtafa]

Its not about hate it is about avoiding the problems of of having muslims in the country

[hippifried]

Its not about hate it is about avoiding the problems of of having muslims in the country
that makes about as much sense as the ramblings of the "sheet monkeys" over here.

[russtafa]

Well if there were no muslims in our countries there would be no terrorist's to worry about. How simple is that hippie,put that in your pipe and smoke it

[hippifried]

Well if there were no muslims in our countries there would be no terrorist's to worry about. How simple is that hippie,put that in your pipe and smoke it
Oh It's very simple. I wouldn't expect anything else from you except simplistic childish bullshit. It's still a lie though.

[russtafa]

Why a lie Mr know it all hippie?lol

[onmyknees]

I believe what you meant to say is “one-note blowhard.“ But son, you're on record as hating a billion people, so the fact that you despise me has no meaning at all. Besides, what was it JC said to the Pharisees? Something about loving thy neighbor, as I recall. Maybe you’re not as good a Christian as you think you are.

Nonetheless, I can see how I might make you uncomfortable. I am forcing you to confront your own hypocrisy. You think Muslims should be held collectively responsible for the actions of a few, and yet you steadfastly refuse to apply the same standard to others with whom you share ideology/theology/etc. Unfortunately, that makes you a hypocrite. You can despise me for pointing that out, but it doesn't make you less of a hypocrite. The only thing that's going to make you less of a hypocrite is for you to adopt a non-hypocritical attitude.



See, this is what we call projection, kiddo. You’re not running “anything past [my] nose,” you’re specifically posting individual stories of extreme right-wing Muslims. Under the circumstances, it seems relevant to point out the simple existence of extreme right-wing Christians. But, clearly, these simple facts are more than your fevered little mind can handle, so you respond by projecting your own hateful inadequacy onto me.



Again, I have never done anything like this. I have never once excused, apologized for, nor “explained away” violence of any kind. I have asked you repeatedly to back up your accusations with things that I have actually said, and you have signally failed to do so.

You, on the other hand:



And yet…



The thing about a written dialog is that you can’t later go back and claim you didn’t say something that you actually said. “Occurred” has two r’s, by the way.



Ummmmm…. Kiddo, you have been here half as long as I have and you have five times as many posts. So who is it that’s on here all day? If it had been me, I would have checked something like that before making that kind of a statement. But then, you don’t come across as a very thoughtful person.

See, here’s the thing. I’m a big believer in evidence. And in order to believe that Christianity is somehow morally superior to Islam, you have to ignore evidence, as you have so insistently done for the last… 20 pages of this thread.

So, here's your ass. Let me know when you’re done adding me to your “Despise List,” and we can get back to discussing things like evidence and facts.

Let me put it to you this way....I don't dislike anyone on here. These are political, ideological discussions, and they should be passionate. But you're a first....I find myself loathing you to the point of rejoicing in your demise. Maybe I need confession? LMAO ...I looked back at some of your posts.....The vast majority of them are on 2 subjects.. your vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims...all Muslims, or your frequent Christian bashing. Other than that, you're pretty much a blank slate. On posts on the General board, you're almost non existent. On posts that many participate in like Kelly Shore's "Tell us a little about yourself" or Where are you from"....you're a no show as far as I can tell....correct me if I'm wrong. Why are you here? What's your deal? You definitely have a problem with Christians to the point of bigotry. This post really isn't an attempt to solicit a response. You're whole gig is pretty revolting and very predictable so save it....I'm not interested. You're persona non grata. :fu:

[hippifried]

Why a lie Mr know it all hippie?lol
Well I can't speak for the sparsely populated islands of usidedownia, because... Well frankly, I just don't care enough to even look up the stats. But here in America, we've been infested with terrorists for many decades, & they aren't Muslims for the most part.

[yodajazz]

Well I can't speak for the sparsely populated islands of usidedownia, because... Well frankly, I just don't care enough to even look up the stats. But here in America, we've been infested with terrorists for many decades, & they aren't Muslims for the most part.
Not to mention 16,000+ murders in years 2006-09 is the US, plus 30,000 a year from car accidents. There is more danger from reckless cell phone use.

[russtafa]

Hippie is a typical American isolationist and still thinks that Australia,New Zealand,Canada are part of the British Empire lol

[Stavros]

And the Head of State of Australia, Canada and New Zealand is the same person who is Head of State here in the UK: Her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II...

[russtafa]

means nothing she has no power

[onmyknees]

Well this isn't going to go over too well with the enlightened ones on this thread who look at those of us who think radical Islam is one of the biggest internal and external threats we face, with indignation and condesention. Is this Bill Maher or OMK talking?....hard to tell ! What say you ...enlightened ones?...LOL

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=hdaGnz8z8z

[hippifried]

& you're supposed to be making a point of some kind?

[Dino Velvet]

Damn this thread got long. Looking at the Scoreboard it looks like the Hajiis have been taken behind the woodshed and are about ready to throw in the towel they have wrapped around their head.

Love to set these fires and run off to higher ground to get a better view.:twisted:

[yodajazz]

Well this isn't going to go over too well with the enlightened ones on this thread who look at those of us who think radical Islam is one of the biggest internal and external threats we face, with indignation and condesention. Is this Bill Maher or OMK talking?....hard to tell ! What say you ...enlightened ones?...LOL

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=hdaGnz8z8z

I have agreed with Bill Maher in many of his views. But in this case, he is misled to think that it is the Koran, that is the source of the issue of violence in today's world. I see it as the case of those who are prone to violence. They can find, things in the Koran, because they are seeking to justify their actions. There are passages which forbid suicide, yet these are conviently ignored, by those with particular political missions.

[hippifried]

A fanatic is a fanatic. It doesn't matter whether it's religious, anti-religious, political, ideological, economic, philosophical, sexual, or whatever combination. Fanatics get attention because they constantly seek it by saying & doing abnormal things, more often than not by being obnoxious, stupid, or both to some degree. I lend them no credence.

[Silcc69]

A fanatic is a fanatic. It doesn't matter whether it's religious, anti-religious, political, ideological, economic, philosophical, sexual, or whatever combination. Fanatics get attention because they constantly seek it by saying & doing abnormal things, more often than not by being obnoxious, stupid, or both to some degree. I lend them no credence.

BAH only muslims can fanatics.

[onmyknees]

BAH only muslims can fanatics.


You're free to dismiss or believe anything you like. Someday you may have a Bill Maher type awakining ! But in the meantime,


http://frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hamas-koran-bomb-belts.gif (http://frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hamas-koran-bomb-belts.gif)
“We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are most vulnerable. The Jews love life, so that is what we will take from them. We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.”
- Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary General of Hezbollah

Islamist murderers put their evil philosophy, as outlined by Nasrallah, into practice once again on Saturday when they murdered a Jewish family of five in Itamar (http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=211780), a West Bank settlement. Besides the father and mother, three of their six children, including a baby of three months, were stabbed to death. The ages of the other two offspring were 11 and three-years old.

Afterwards celebrations took place in the streets and people passed out candy. Surely you've heard this story....right? Well if you watch the 3 major networks you wouldn't have.

BTW...those appear to be suicide bombers fully ready to find thier virgins.

[onmyknees]

I have agreed with Bill Maher in many of his views. But in this case, he is misled to think that it is the Koran, that is the source of the issue of violence in today's world. I see it as the case of those who are prone to violence. They can find, things in the Koran, because they are seeking to justify their actions. There are passages which forbid suicide, yet these are conviently ignored, by those with particular political missions.

I don't believe that the Koran tells some Muslims to hate and kill the infedels, and I don't know if Maher does......the point is THEY believe it. Your beef should be with them, not Maher.

[russtafa]

The muslims believe in out breeding non muslims

[Ben]

YouTube - Islamophobic? Blame the 80's! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWR12txnfow)

[trish]

The muslims believe in out breeding non muslimsWhy are you fucking around with girls without wombs! Stop wanking to Tgirl porn. Let no sperm go to waste. Christ man, make some babies. FAST!

[Ben]

Why are you fucking around with girls without wombs! Stop wanking to Tgirl porn. Let no sperm go to waste. Christ man, make some babies. FAST!

Exactly -- ha! ha! And every white Christian couple should have at least 10 kids. LOL.
My God. The fear. And author and columnist Chris Hedges made an interesting point: "The corporate state has nothing to offer the left or the right but fear."

YouTube - The Culture of Fear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrrJIJS0b6E)

[onmyknees]

[QUOTE=Ben;907233]Exactly -- ha! ha! And every white Christian couple should have at least 10 kids. LOL.
My God. The fear. And author and columnist Chris Hedges made an interesting point: "The corporate state has nothing to offer the left or the right but fear."


That's not interesting Ben...that's abstract and sounds like Jane Fonda circa 1968 !! you need to get your hands out of your trousers, and your nose out of People Magazine looking for the latest wardrobe incident with Lindsey Lohan, or Brittney Spears and start paying attention to what's happening in the world. Here is what the founder of Hamas Mamoud Al Zahar recently stated........

"There is no place for you Jews amoung us, and you have no future amoung the nations of the world. You are headed to annihilation"

And you try to tell us it's the corporations peddling fear? You're prabaly a nice enough young dude, but you're incredibly naive .

[onmyknees]

Hater

[russtafa]

I think something should be dropped in the water of these muslim countries to stop them breeding.They wont be aware of the situation for a generation and then it's to late

[trish]

Hater
Nothing like being afraid of the dark ! LMAO. Your hysteria is humorous, and I appreciate humor. Your hysteria is ugly and I find it disgusting.

[Ben]

[QUOTE=Ben;907233]Exactly -- ha! ha! And every white Christian couple should have at least 10 kids. LOL.
My God. The fear. And author and columnist Chris Hedges made an interesting point: "The corporate state has nothing to offer the left or the right but fear."


That's not interesting Ben...that's abstract and sounds like Jane Fonda circa 1968 !! you need to get your hands out of your trousers, and your nose out of People Magazine looking for the latest wardrobe incident with Lindsey Lohan, or Brittney Spears and start paying attention to what's happening in the world. Here is what the founder of Hamas Mamoud Al Zahar recently stated........

"There is no place for you Jews amoung us, and you have no future amoung the nations of the world. You are headed to annihilation"

And you try to tell us it's the corporations peddling fear? You're prabaly a nice enough young dude, but you're incredibly naive .


Jane Fonda. What?!?!?!? She's an old bag -- ha! ha! And, to me, Britney Spears and LiLo are far more important than world affairs -- ha! ha! ha! Kidding.
In my opinion Chris Hedges is absolutely correct. They've nothing to offer the left -- or the right. (This includes the Republicans and the Dems. Both parties are morally bankrupt and kowtow to corporate interests.)
Hence genuine anger from Tea Party members. I mean, legitimate anger. And we've got to address those concerns. The left isn't doing it. A lot of the left is focusing on environmentalism. They aren't dealing with the day-to-day concerns of the vast majority of Americans. And the Republicans are merely serving the super-rich. The party is simply about: enriching the rich. Nothing more. Nothing less. Hence, again, legitimate anger from most Americans.
Mahmoud Al Zahar is a wacko. Just like Stalin was a wacko. Just like Tony Blair is a religious wacko. I mean, what should we have done with respect to Stalin? Invade? And Pakistan is probably the most dangerous country in the whirling world. What should we do with respect to Pakistan? Invade? What about Saudi Arabia? Remember most of the 911 hijackers were Saudi. What should we do? Keep propping them up and buying their oil and making their ENTIRE family trillionaires? And their COMBINED family wealth is in the trillions. (Anyway, I think, part of the solution is to switch to alternative sources of energy and STOP giving these thuggish and brutal regimes billions and billions and billions of our money every single year.)
I think we should stop gallivanting around the world in search of enemies to destroy. (Remember Bush's Axis of Evil speech. I mean, North Korea! What does North Korea have to do with Iraq or Iran?)
I don't buy the argument that they hate us for our freedoms. It's a crock. It's our policies that they don't like. Anyway, I mean, we can, I guess, keep waging wars until the end of time. I mean, so what if we have a $14 trillion debt. So what if we've trillion dollar deficits. So what if Americans are living beyond their means.
I mean, we should get back to some level of FISCAL CONSERVATISM. Look at Obama. He's increased the size of the military budget since Bush left office. I mean, is this fiscally prudent?
Anyway, onmyknees, we've different opinions. You're locked into your opinions. I'm locked into mine. We won't change -- :(
What concerns me is: what the American people want. I'm in the mainstream with respect to public opinion. Americans want to get out of Afghanistan. I, like most Americans, want single-payer health care. I, like most Americans, want increased taxes on the corporate sector. I'm pretty much in the mainstream.
Again, I think public policy should reflect public opinion. That's called: democracy, meaningful democracy. (But not all people favor democracy. It's simply not in the interest of, say, the Koch brothers to have a very meaningful democratic society.)
The problem is: we've two parties [financed and controlled by the corporate sector] who are way to the right of the American people. And Americans know this. Americans don't like that the rich and powerful have so much sway over politics.

[russtafa]

[quote=onmyknees;907287]

Jane Fonda. What?!?!?!? She's an old bag -- ha! ha! And, to me, Britney Spears and LiLo are far more important than world affairs -- ha! ha! ha! Kidding.
In my opinion Chris Hedges is absolutely correct. They've nothing to offer the left -- or the right. (This includes the Republicans and the Dems. Both parties are morally bankrupt and kowtow to corporate interests.)
Hence genuine anger from Tea Party members. I mean, legitimate anger. And we've got to address those concerns. The left isn't doing it. A lot of the left is focusing on environmentalism. They aren't dealing with the day-to-day concerns of the vast majority of Americans. And the Republicans are merely serving the super-rich. The party is simply about: enriching the rich. Nothing more. Nothing less. Hence, again, legitimate anger from most Americans.
Mahmoud Al Zahar is a wacko. Just like Stalin was a wacko. Just like Tony Blair is a religious wacko. I mean, what should we have done with respect to Stalin? Invade? And Pakistan is probably the most dangerous country in the whirling world. What should we do with respect to Pakistan? Invade? What about Saudi Arabia? Remember most of the 911 hijackers were Saudi. What should we do? Keep propping them up and buying their oil and making their ENTIRE family trillionaires? And their COMBINED family wealth is in the trillions. (Anyway, I think, part of the solution is to switch to alternative sources of energy and STOP giving these thuggish and brutal regimes billions and billions and billions of our money every single year.)
I think we should stop gallivanting around the world in search of enemies to destroy. (Remember Bush's Axis of Evil speech. I mean, North Korea! What does North Korea have to do with Iraq or Iran?)
I don't buy the argument that they hate us for our freedoms. It's a crock. It's our policies that they don't like. Anyway, I mean, we can, I guess, keep waging wars until the end of time. I mean, so what if we have a $14 trillion debt. So what if we've trillion dollar deficits. So what if Americans are living beyond their means.
I mean, we should get back to some level of FISCAL CONSERVATISM. Look at Obama. He's increased the size of the military budget since Bush left office. I mean, is this fiscally prudent?
Anyway, onmyknees, we've different opinions. You're locked into your opinions. I'm locked into mine. We won't change -- :(
What concerns me is: what the American people want. I'm in the mainstream with respect to public opinion. Americans want to get out of Afghanistan. I, like most Americans, want single-payer health care. I, like most Americans, want increased taxes on the corporate sector. I'm pretty much in the mainstream.
Again, I think public policy should reflect public opinion. That's called: democracy, meaningful democracy. (But not all people favor democracy. It's simply not in the interest of, say, the Koch brothers to have a very meaningful democratic society.)
The problem is: we've two parties [financed and controlled by the corporate sector] who are way to the right of the American people. And Americans know this. Americans don't like that the rich and powerful have so much sway over politics.
not invade isolate like a virus and kill off all exports of that virus

[Prospero]

This strand of the shemale forum is interesting only inasmuch as it displays the range of attitudes here is the same as in the wider world - from blind almost fascistic prejudice to enlightened open minded thoughtfulness - and everything in between. The blind prejudice end seems to dominate. That's life really. Pastor Terry Jones and the mob in Afghanistan are cut from the very same cloth.

[Stavros]

My politics is a world and more away from Hamas, but I wonder how much of what Zahar says in public is ideological froth -Hamas has veered from making inflammatory statements to acknowledging it will negotiate with Israel on realistics terms, but you can find as many offensive remarks about Palestinians made by Israeli politicians so there is nothing unique about such things. Right now Isreal under Netanyahu has deliberately pushed the 'peace process' into a ditch, but it is not clear how either Israel or the two Palestinians blocs, Hamas and the PLO are going to be affected by the Arab Spring. The old politics has been exposed as a failure, and something the people don't want, precisely because it has led them nowhere except the cemetery to bury their dead. However I wonder if the atrophy of political debate and their lack of political skills has meant Palestinians are at the back of the queue for freedom -not good for anyone in the region, including Israel.

[russtafa]

I think religions are for people that are to simple to lead their own lives but the muslim religion is probably the worst example of a religion.Religions are only a philosophy and the heads of these religions use it as a means of controlling their people

[Stavros]

Marx of course called religion 'the opium of the people', but never really asked himself why they need the opium, or believed it was because they were otherwise crushed and depressed by their class situation. Religion, like philosophy or any theory, attempts to offer a simple, coherent explanation of the complex reality of the world we live in. It appeals to people who need to believe there is some 'higher purpose' or 'being' -a Muslim I once knew said 'otherwise what's the point?'. I was inclined to say 'but that is the point'. but it would have been lost on him. Religions also offer, indeed in many cases, demand adherence to rules, dietary rules being of obvious significance, and even if you can explain the prohibition of Pork among Jews and Muslims as the legacy of disease transmission from animals to man, it doesnt make any difference. The bans stays. I don't know that Islam is 'as bad' as the other religions when it comes to their prescriptions for the good life: the Qu'ran is as contradictory as the Bible when it comes to the details, and after nearly 2,000 years Muslims (and others) are still grappling with the meaning of 'Jihad' and 'Hijab' -I suspect thse concepts are re-interpreted in every age, because they mean more than one thing. Ultimately, then, its not the religion per se that is at fault, but the political uses to which some people put it -be it the violent Hindu 'nationalists' in India or the 'God hates fags' 'Christians' sired by Mr Phelps...

[tsnajwa]

this thread deeply saddens and sickens me how you people think... and of all places on a tranny board.. i mean srsly guys? this is just sad and i hope all this hate is a joke

[Stavros]

It is a bit of a rough neighbourhood at times, tsnajwa, the point is to remain committed to your values and not let the buggers get your down...ma'alesh yani!

[onmyknees]

Your hysteria is ugly and I find it disgusting.

It's actually irrelevent what you think about what I think, Trish.....anyone who played the game you played after Tuson should be confined to the margins. My "hysteria" as you put it... is based on fact.....yours on emotion and politics. FAIL.

you're better suited making nasty pornogaphic referrences about Mrs. Trump...it's your style. Stick to it.

[yodajazz]

Marx of course called religion 'the opium of the people', but never really asked himself why they need the opium, or believed it was because they were otherwise crushed and depressed by their class situation. Religion, like philosophy or any theory, attempts to offer a simple, coherent explanation of the complex reality of the world we live in. It appeals to people who need to believe there is some 'higher purpose' or 'being' -a Muslim I once knew said 'otherwise what's the point?'. I was inclined to say 'but that is the point'. but it would have been lost on him. Religions also offer, indeed in many cases, demand adherence to rules, dietary rules being of obvious significance, and even if you can explain the prohibition of Pork among Jews and Muslims as the legacy of disease transmission from animals to man, it doesnt make any difference. The bans stays. I don't know that Islam is 'as bad' as the other religions when it comes to their prescriptions for the good life: the Qu'ran is as contradictory as the Bible when it comes to the details, and after nearly 2,000 years Muslims (and others) are still grappling with the meaning of 'Jihad' and 'Hijab' -I suspect thse concepts are re-interpreted in every age, because they mean more than one thing. Ultimately, then, its not the religion per se that is at fault, but the political uses to which some people put it -be it the violent Hindu 'nationalists' in India or the 'God hates fags' 'Christians' sired by Mr Phelps...

Good points there Stavros. I think Islam, has a giant public relations problem, without having centralized leadership to speak up for it. Its like every bad thing or stupid thing done by Muslims, makes worldwide news, so the only news we get of nearly 1.4 billion peope is when someone gets murdered. It has been like that here with Blacks, except that we have sports and entertainment figures. Plus there seems to be lots of misinformation being put out about Islam.

I think the biggest misconception, is that Muslims consider Christian and Jews, to be non-believers, thus subject to the objects to battle, by the Prophet. This is not true. The Koran, says that Allah is the same God that is in the Bible, and Torah. Many people believe that Allah is somehow a different God. Not true. Another big misconception is that the word 'jihad', means acts of violence. The word, I'm told simply means 'struggle'. One could struggle against being overcome by vices, for example. Thus there is a saying; "the greatest jihad is within." Certainly military force is included in the meaning of jihad,but one could "defend the faith" by writing a letter to a newspaper editor, as an example.

We in the West seem to intuitively understand, that when a Christian kills someone, it is rarely for religious reasons. How many murders are there a year in the US? We seem to understand that when a Christian kills someone, he is usually not following the teachings of his religion. Yet too many people seem to believe that most killing done by Muslims is because of their religion. There are many cultural practices, that of an ethnic origin, that are not sanctioned by the Koran. I believe the practice of "honor killings", is one of these.

Lastly, I consder myself a religious person. I see the belief in God, as a means to feel a common connection, to others, beyond self, community, nationality, etc. It provides mankind witht he understanding that our actions have consequences, beyond what we can see. Of course one can feel this outside of being religious, but with religion, it is practically a given concept. And lots of people dont realize how, religions give comfort from stressful everyday lives. Jesus said, "not to worry about tomorrow". And 2000 years later doctors are saying that stress is the number one killer. Our views of a life and universe governed by order (God), can be the difference between having peace and hope, or living in fear.

[Stavros]

I agree with you here; I think we need to see political Islam as a minority diversion from the mainstream, but the problem is similar to what someone once said of the 'Terror' of Robespierre during the French Revolution: 'ten men can make ten thousand tremble'; bin Laden did not need an army of volunteers, in fact his 'propaganda of the deed' be it East Africa or the USA relied on a few people, but enough to make that appalling difference.

The so-called 'volunteers' of the Provisional IRA and before it the 'Official IRA' and so on, were for the most part devout Catholics with images of the Virgin Mary on their walls -they did not claim to be fighting for a Christian ideal, but clearly had little time for the sermon on the mount -just as Jews one assumes ought to adhere to the 6th Commandment -'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.

Muhammad was affected by his contacts with the Christian and Jewish communities that lived in the vicinity of Mecca and Medina in the 7th century, but most scholars agree that he took more from Judaism than he did from Christianity which, perhaps, was seen as a radical, minority faith at the time; and the Jews were more numerous and powerful in Arabia. Extremists like bin Laden often use the example of the 'community' ('Umma) that was established in Medina as their model for an Islamic state, but cannot deal with the fact that if it was so succeesful, it would not have collapsed after his death -the succession of the 'Rightly Guided Caliphs' (the 'Rashidun') was based on their direct association with the 'Messenger' after which the religion slipped into a long period of doctrinal dispute and political competition from which, in a sense it has never recovered -which is why, as you say, there is no single authority to speak for the religion, and why different parts of the Islamic world have, to some extent, grafted Islam onto their own cultural inheritance. And, as you indicate, it is the minority of Muslims who interpret Jihad as physical violence who get more headlines than the ones who are using 'Jihad' to not have that glass of whisky, a bacon sandwich, or give in to the temptations offered by their best friend's wife...

[onmyknees]

this thread deeply saddens and sickens me how you people think... and of all places on a tranny board.. i mean srsly guys? this is just sad and i hope all this hate is a joke


That's precisely why this is the place for Politics and religion and particularily where they merge. The General Discussion board is probably better suited for you baby. You sound like a sweet lady, and I don't mean this to sound to harsh, but you're naive. The middle east and North Africa is on fire, and the US involved in 3 major conflicts. Jews and Christians and innocent Muslims are being killed everyday in those places. I'd like to buy the world a coke and sing in harmony, but this is far too serious.

[onmyknees]

Good points there Stavros. I think Islam, has a giant public relations problem, without having centralized leadership to speak up for it. Its like every bad thing or stupid thing done by Muslims, makes worldwide news, so the only news we get of nearly 1.4 billion peope is when someone gets murdered. It has been like that here with Blacks, except that we have sports and entertainment figures. Plus there seems to be lots of misinformation being put out about Islam.

I think the biggest misconception, is that Muslims consider Christian and Jews, to be non-believers, thus subject to the objects to battle, by the Prophet. This is not true. The Koran, says that Allah is the same God that is in the Bible, and Torah. Many people believe that Allah is somehow a different God. Not true. Another big misconception is that the word 'jihad', means acts of violence. The word, I'm told simply means 'struggle'. One could struggle against being overcome by vices, for example. Thus there is a saying; "the greatest jihad is within." Certainly military force is included in the meaning of jihad,but one could "defend the faith" by writing a letter to a newspaper editor, as an example.

We in the West seem to intuitively understand, that when a Christian kills someone, it is rarely for religious reasons. How many murders are there a year in the US? We seem to understand that when a Christian kills someone, he is usually not following the teachings of his religion. Yet too many people seem to believe that most killing done by Muslims is because of their religion. There are many cultural practices, that of an ethnic origin, that are not sanctioned by the Koran. I believe the practice of "honor killings", is one of these.

Lastly, I consder myself a religious person. I see the belief in God, as a means to feel a common connection, to others, beyond self, community, nationality, etc. It provides mankind witht he understanding that our actions have consequences, beyond what we can see. Of course one can feel this outside of being religious, but with religion, it is practically a given concept. And lots of people dont realize how, religions give comfort from stressful everyday lives. Jesus said, "not to worry about tomorrow". And 2000 years later doctors are saying that stress is the number one killer. Our views of a life and universe governed by order (God), can be the difference between having peace and hope, or living in fear.

I take you to be a calm, peaceful, thoughtful person Yoda, and your point is not lost on me...but these incidents by Muslims are not isolated as you seem to suggest. This wordwide violence is not similar to black on black crime for example when the reasons are neither racial, nor religious. I do not consider what is happening in the world with respect to Islam as being "crime" in the way we typically define it here. This is not nearly as random and opportunistic as a random armed robbery gone bad. This is about religion and about hate. You more than likely will not see these stories if you only read the NYT and watch the politically correct evening news. I could fill pages with these disturbing stories. You leave us with the impression that there's just a few bad eggs in every basket, and it's just being over blown by the media. Frankly...it's being under reported in the media. A few quick keystrokes and it wasn't hard to find dozens of stories similar to these...Yes, it's complex and differes from country to country but there remains one deep, disturbing commonality.


Mardan (Agenzia Fides) (http://www.fides.org/aree/news/newsdet.php?idnews=28732&lan=eng) — “Convert or die”. Masih Gill, Christian from the city of Mardan, in the province of “Khyber Pakhtunkhwa” (Northern Pakistan), was threatened with these words by a group of Muslims with whom he had been speaking, after the recent episode of the burning of the Koran in the US. This event brought violent reactions in Pakistan (three churches attacked in a week) by Muslim extremists.
Local sources of say that Masih Gill simply defended his faith, saying that Christians respect all religions and do not nurture hostility towards anyone. The discussion then degenerated and the Muslims seriously threatened Gill. At the end of the fight, they also gave him intimidating notice that he would be incriminated for blasphemy.
Masih Gill, father, is now in hiding, and his family — thanks to the intervention of the Masihi Foundation who also defend Asia Bibi — will be transferred to a more secure place. The city of Mardan, in fact, is infested with radical Muslim groups which terrorise civilians, especially the religious minorities.




Poll: One-third of Palestinians support Itamar attack

By JPOST.COM STAFF (updatesdesk@gmail.com)
04/06/2011 15:04

Most Gazans seek widespread demonstrations against Hamas; Palestinians don't think Mideast protests will bring statehood.

Talkbacks (12)

One-third of Palestinians support the attack in Itamar (http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=211863) in March, in which an Israeli family of five was murdered while 63 percent opposed it, according to a Hebrew University (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Hebrew_University_of_Jerusalem) poll released on Wednesday.

The survey was conducted by Prof. Yaacov Shamir of the Harry S. Truman (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Harry_S._Truman) Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace and the Department of Communication and Journalism at the Hebrew University, and Prof. Khalil Shikaki, Director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR).





Shamir and Shikaki also found that 67% of Gazans seek to organize demonstrations against the Hamas government, like the ones in Egypt and Tunisia.

However, most Palestinians (66%) and Israelis (73%) do not think that such protests "would be capable of ending the occupation nor of stopping settlements."

Nearly 70% of Israelis said that it is unlikely that Israeli Arabs (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Arab_citizens_of_Israel) would hold major demonstrations.

Over half (54%) of Palestinians said they did not think that protests in the Middle East would increase the likelihood of establishing a Palestinian state in the next five years, while only 42% agreed.



CAIRO (AP) (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/05/2151816/islamists-look-for-gains-in-egypts.html) — Islamic hard-liners, some of them heavily suppressed under three decades of Hosni Mubarak’s regime, are enthusiastically diving into Egypt’s new freedoms, forming political parties to enter upcoming elections and raising alarm that they will try to lead the country into fundamentalist rule.
Some militants, taking advantage of a security vacuum, aren’t waiting for the political process. They have attacked Christians and liquor stores, trying to impose their austere version of Islamic law in provincial towns.
The Islamists’ newfound energy prompted the ruling military to warn on Monday that Egypt “will not be turned into Gaza or Iran.”
Islamists could fare well in parliamentary elections scheduled for September, especially if the various groups run on a unified ticket. Their chances are boosted by the disarray among other groups. Traditional opposition parties were deeply restricted under Mubarak’s 29-year rule and have no popular base to speak of. The liberal youth groups behind the 18-day uprising that forced Mubarak to step down on Feb. 11 are still scrambling to organize before voting day.
The Islamists, furthermore, are well funded and organized. The most established fundamentalist group, the Muslim Brotherhood, has years of experience in contesting elections.

[yodajazz]

...

Mardan (Agenzia Fides) (http://www.fides.org/aree/news/newsdet.php?idnews=28732&lan=eng) — “Convert or die”. Masih Gill, Christian from the city of Mardan, in the province of “Khyber Pakhtunkhwa” (Northern Pakistan), was threatened with these words by a group of Muslims with whom he had been speaking, after the recent episode of the burning of the Koran in the US. This event brought violent reactions in Pakistan (three churches attacked in a week) by Muslim extremists.
Local sources of say that Masih Gill simply defended his faith, saying that Christians respect all religions and do not nurture hostility towards anyone. The discussion then degenerated and the Muslims seriously threatened Gill. At the end of the fight, they also gave him intimidating notice that he would be incriminated for blasphemy.
Masih Gill, father, is now in hiding, and his family — thanks to the intervention of the Masihi Foundation who also defend Asia Bibi — will be transferred to a more secure place. The city of Mardan, in fact, is infested with radical Muslim groups which terrorise civilians, especially the religious minorities.
...

This story is not much about Islam, but a lot about how people, and groups of people dont think correctly. Think about it. Why would people in Pakistan, get mad at someone for someone else's actions in Florida? But the reality we do the exact same thing. We are judge a Muslim in Oklahoma from the actions of someone other Muslim in Iraq, or elsewhere. The Koran or the Bible still give people the option to chose between 'justice' and mercy. The so called "justice" in the story was the people questioning the Christian man. That they made him accountable for someone else's behavior, was the error in thinking. The only way he would be guilty is, if the Florida pastor, was following his specific instructions. The story is about, the outletting of the destructive emotions of anger, because their actions were not based on logic. Looking at racism, you see that it is a model of the same principle. Here is the US, in the 20's or 30's, a properous Black town/community, or two, were burnt to the ground, over one rape allegation. Note that the 'terrorists' were White Christians. The Bible should say somewhere, that rape is wrong. But burning down a town is not about following the Bible. It about the outletting of anger.

There is a political elements in Islam. I realize that we need to be vigilent against declared enemy groups. But the solutions need to recognize and separate, ideology, from simple emotional actions, such as revenge that hurt innocent people.

[yodajazz]

I take you to be a calm, peaceful, thoughtful person Yoda, and your point is not lost on me...but these incidents by Muslims are not isolated as you seem to suggest. This wordwide violence is not similar to black on black crime for example when the reasons are neither racial, nor religious. I do not consider what is happening in the world with respect to Islam as being "crime" in the way we typically define it here. This is not nearly as random and opportunistic as a random armed robbery gone bad. This is about religion and about hate. You more than likely will not see these stories if you only read the NYT and watch the politically correct evening news. I could fill pages with these disturbing stories. You leave us with the impression that there's just a few bad eggs in every basket, and it's just being over blown by the media. Frankly...it's being under reported in the media. A few quick keystrokes and it wasn't hard to find dozens of stories similar to these...Yes, it's complex and differes from country to country but there remains one deep, disturbing commonality.
...

I agree that under reporting is a major issue. Only it's the actions of Israel, that are being whitewashed, or underplayed. They are over there taking people's lands and homes, who have resided there for centuries. A story about the Israeli raid on the flotilla bringing medical aid and supplies to Palestine, did not seem to get much major airplay. The former US Black congresswoman, who ran for President (or vice) as a indepedent, certainly got no publicity. She was in the flotilla. The treatment of Palestinians, gets news in the Arab/Mulsim world. Over here we get Israel's side, mostly. If people here saw more of both sides, they would understand that it is maybe more about treating people right, than anything else.

But I did see a passage in the Koran, that applies to the Palestinian situation. It said something to the effect of; "You are not forbidden, to treat anyone kindly, except those that fight you for you faith, or drive you from your homes." So the meaning here is clearly defensive only. It's not about being a follower of the Prophet, to be treated kindly, here. But it seems to apporve of fighting from having your land taken. I believe, along with Jimmy Carter, that it would help if we looked at Israel on it's fair treatment of others, as part of the solution, or problem.

[onmyknees]

I agree that under reporting is a major issue. Only it's the actions of Israel, that are being whitewashed, or underplayed. They are over there taking people's lands and homes, who have resided there for centuries. A story about the Israeli raid on the flotilla bringing medical aid and supplies to Palestine, did not seem to get much major airplay. The former US Black congresswoman, who ran for President (or vice) as a indepedent, certainly got no publicity. She was in the flotilla. The treatment of Palestinians, gets news in the Arab/Mulsim world. Over here we get Israel's side, mostly. If people here saw more of both sides, they would understand that it is maybe more about treating people right, than anything else.

But I did see a passage in the Koran, that applies to the Palestinian situation. It said something to the effect of; "You are not forbidden, to treat anyone kindly, except those that fight you for you faith, or drive you from your homes." So the meaning here is clearly defensive only. It's not about being a follower of the Prophet, to be treated kindly, here. But it seems to apporve of fighting from having your land taken. I believe, along with Jimmy Carter, that it would help if we looked at Israel on it's fair treatment of others, as part of the solution, or problem.

Ever the peacemaker Yoda !! ever consider employment in lower Manhattan at the UN? LOL I'm not poking fun...there is much thought in what you write. It's not worth detangling the Isreali-Palestinian thing here...hell the best diplomats in the world haven't been able to resolve that struggle, but I will say this to paraphrase Netanyahu....If the Palestinians put down thier arms tomorrow there would be no war....If Isreal put down thier arms tomorrow there would be no Isreal. What was eye opening to me was several years ago Arafat walked away from an agreement on the table that not only addressed the 2 state solution, but just about everything else he had been posturing for. It would seem peace was not in his best self interest. And here we are today.

[Stavros]

If the Palestinians put down thier arms tomorrow there would be no war....If Isreal put down thier arms tomorrow there would be no Isreal.

The problem here is that the two parties to this dispute have no confidence in each other. Arafat was being asked to yield even more territory to Israel in exchange for another deal in site of the fact that Israel has reneged on the earlier treaty and has such a lamentable record on territorial concessions anyway. Even Arafat, who put his own interests first, could not have 'sold' this to the Palestinians. In the meantime, the PLO, whose corruption is legendary even in a region as venal as the Middle East, has seen its legitimacy eroded and the so-called militants in Hamas steal some of its thunder. The Wikileaks revelations via the 'Palestine Papers' undermined further the credibility of the PLO which, like the Arab regimes falling to pieces before our eyes, has been indifferent to 'the people' -I even wonder if the PLO and Hamas can represent the Palestinians, but there has been since the 19th century a chronic failure of leadership among the Palestinians -the sad truth is that they are good at a hundred and one things, except poltics. There is a strong constituency in Israel that wants a 'meaningful' and a 'just peace', and are willing to trade territory to get it. I don't think it will happen in the short to medium term, in part because Netanyahu and particularly Lieberman are opposed to anything that doesn't have 'Made in Israel' stamped on it, in part because the Palestinian politicians are so feeble; and because third parties are suffering from the fatigue of trying to bang these heads together. When Tony Blair and Bertie Aherne (and Bill Clinton) sponsored a peace treaty in Northern Ireland, the two blocs -the Republicans and the Loyalists, had exhausted all their options on the battlefield, they couldn't sustain the cost of buying weapons and the loss of life, and were prepared to swallow bitter pills to get what they wanted. As far as Israel and the Palestinians go, I'm afraid its 'more of the same' for some time to come.

[onmyknees]

I think everyone should read and heed this from Richard Engle. He's no right winger for those who are unfimilar with his reporting, but there may be no one as fimilar with the region than him. ...or as courageous as a reporter. If this isn't ominus....I'm not sure what is...What happened to all that talk of Arab democracies?



NBC’s Engel ‘Worried’ About ‘Ferociously Anti-Israel’ Arab Street, ‘This Thing Ends in Jerusalem’


By Brad Wilmouth (http://www.newsbusters.org/bios/brad-wilmouth.html) | April 13, 2011 | 22:15
On Wednesday’s NBC Nightly News, chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel informed viewers that he is "worried" that a major war between some of the Arab countries and Israel could be in the not too distant future because of the "ferociously anti-Israel" sentiment of the "Arab street" that is likely to gain power in countries like Egypt. He ended up concluding: "But I think, over time, this thing ends in Jerusalem."
After host Brian Williams and Engel had discussed the likely prosecution of former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, and the disappointment of Libyan rebels at the level of assistance to their cause supplied by NATO, Williams posed the question: "You’re back here in New York for a few days. The question I’ve seen most people ask you: Where does this all end?"
Engel sounded more pessimistic than he did during the protests in Egypt from January and February. Engel:
This whole movement in the Middle East, and I'm worried about it because while people in the region deserve more rights and they want more rights and they're embracing more of the will of the Arab street, well, the will of the Arab street is also ferociously anti-Israel, against Israel.
He added:
And there's many people who believe that if you empower the Arab street and the Arab street wants to see a war or wants to see more justice for the Palestinians, that, down the road three to five years, this could lead to a major war with Israel. It could also force a negotiated settlement. But I think, over time, this thing ends in Jerusalem.
By contrast, on the February 8 Nightly News, Engel seemed to downplay (http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2011/02/09/nbc-s-engel-finds-muslim-brotherhood-akin-hamas-omits-hamas-terrorist)possible dangers posed by a regime change as Williams asked him about the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood:
The group has about 20 to 40 percent support in the country. It’s not al-Qaeda, it’s not the Taliban. They do support Islamic law, but the people who are members of the Muslim Brotherhood wear business suits. It’s much more similar to, it’s much more akin to Hamas in the Gaza Strip. It’s anti-American, it’s anti-Israel, but it wouldn’t kick all the Christians out of this country, but it would definitely take a more anti-American line.

[TJ347]

While the country eyes possible Muslim extremists, the Church of Jesus Christ Christian continues recruiting potential Tim McVeighs... Yet do we lump all Christians in with the Aryan Nation? As was already said, fanaticism knows no bounds, religious, ethnic or otherwise.

[Stavros]

I am not sure that the short-to-medium term situation is clear enough to make such a huge assumption about the trajectory of 'popular opinion' in the Arab world. One of the driving forces in this 'Arab Spring' has been propelled by young people who have become frustrated to the point of combustion with decades of corruption and governmental incompetence that has passed them by. And we are not just dealing with a fringe element, across the Middle East something like 40% of the population is under the age of 30 or thereabouts, and the Arabs are more focused on putting their own place in order than 'dealing with Israel'. Popular opinion will veer against Israel because in the Arab world they have a diet of documentary footage of Israeli 'atrocities' to call on, but the truth is that most Arabs don't know the reality of life in Israel anymore than Israeli's have a clue of what life is like in most of their neighbours -yet the irony is that a large % of Arabs (and also Iranians) are culturally on the same wave length as their Israeli contemporaries -they watch the same films, listen to the same music, share networking accounts on Facebook and are showing as much disenchantment with radical Islam as their Muslim contemporaries in the West. Yes, there will always be hardliners, and these are the people who are reported more often than boring teenagers who are playing computer games and listening to Justin Bieber or Beyonce or whoever.

I take an optimistic view of the next generation -right now they are trying to remove the obstacles to the future, that is where the real problem lies.

[thombergeron]

Afterwards celebrations took place in the streets and people passed out candy. Surely you've heard this story....right?

Yep. Remember when a bunch of Jews celebrated Baruch Goldstein shooting up a mosque full of people praying? Killed 29 people and wounded over 120 others?

Hundreds of Jews Gather To Honor Hebron Killer (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/01/world/hundreds-of-jews-gather-to-honor-hebron-killer.html?pagewanted=1)

Of course, by your standard, this means that all Jews everywhere and forever are in favor of gunning down praying people.

[thombergeron]

Let me put it to you this way....I don't dislike anyone on here. These are political, ideological discussions, and they should be passionate. But you're a first....I find myself loathing you to the point of rejoicing in your demise. Maybe I need confession? LMAO ...I looked back at some of your posts.....The vast majority of them are on 2 subjects.. your vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims...all Muslims, or your frequent Christian bashing. Other than that, you're pretty much a blank slate. On posts on the General board, you're almost non existent. On posts that many participate in like Kelly Shore's "Tell us a little about yourself" or Where are you from"....you're a no show as far as I can tell....correct me if I'm wrong. Why are you here? What's your deal? You definitely have a problem with Christians to the point of bigotry. This post really isn't an attempt to solicit a response. You're whole gig is pretty revolting and very predictable so save it....I'm not interested. You're persona non grata. :fu:

That’s awesome. So here you are, a follower of Christ, the Prince of Peace, daydreaming about the joy you’ll feel when another human being is killed. And why are you wishing death upon another human being? Because I hurt your pride by calling you a dummy on the Internet? Isn’t pride a sin, too? You’re a terrible spokesman for the alleged moral superiority of Christianity.

The blank slate is between your ears. It’s not actually all that complicated. I have a job, so I don’t have an enormous amount of time to spend chit-chatting on an Internet porn forum. But ignorance and hypocrisy really drive me ape-shit, and having served in the Middle East and conducted research in other Muslim countries, I actually know a little bit about political Islam, unlike you.

I don’t really understand what my post history here has to do with anything. I’ve discussed my background on several occasions and have made no real attempt to hide who I am or what I do. If you’d actually obsessively tracked down my posts as you claim, you’d have a pretty clear idea of where I’m coming from. But either you haven’t done that, or you’re cognitively impaired, because you continue to misunderstand my fairly simple points:

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.

OK, now you get to totally devastate me by reposting all the times I've mounted a "vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims"... :whistle:

[Ineeda SM]

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.



Very well said Thom. I have tried on many occasions to offer the exact meaning you have expressed with those 3 points. Of course the right wingers are racist at heart, and can not see beyond 2 dimensional thinking. They only know the extremes: Black and white, hot and cold, up or down.... They are blind to every aspect in between. And if the evidence you provide does not support their theory, they use their poor imagination to bolster their viewpoint. The worse part is, they think we are all stupid enough to believe it.

Thanks for making those points so clear, accurate, and eloquently. Good post.

[TJ347]

Yep. Remember when a bunch of Jews celebrated Baruch Goldstein shooting up a mosque full of people praying? Killed 29 people and wounded over 120 others?

Hundreds of Jews Gather To Honor Hebron Killer (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/01/world/hundreds-of-jews-gather-to-honor-hebron-killer.html?pagewanted=1)

Of course, by your standard, this means that all Jews everywhere and forever are in favor of gunning down praying people.

Knees, I've got to give credit to Thom on this one. Only here in America are people so stupid as to continue looking sideways at people who they assume are Arabs, when Muslims come in all different races and creeds. Creeds is probably most important, because despite many assuming all Muslims want to destroy America, I personally know many who have come here to escape the fundamentalist element in their countries of origin and are employed as professionals (mainly doctors) here in the US.

Meanwhile, we have imbeciles who have neither the mental capacity, love of freedom, or courage of the individuals they are so quick to throw in the same group. This forum is a microcosm of that very fact. I would not be surprised to find some of the people bashing Muslims in this very thread to be members of militant anti-government or neo-Nazi organizations, but I am intelligent enough not to lump you in with them despite some similar themes in some of what you've said. That ability is what seperates us from the Neanderthal, or at least some of us.

[russtafa]

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

[robertlouis]

I'm surprised that all the focus on Islamic terrorism in the US assumes that the terrorists are all Arabs. In terms of population the three largest Muslim nations are Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. Pakistan in its currently febrile and fragmented state is arguably infinitely more dangerous to the west than anything that emanates from the middle east.

The CIA and MI6 understand this, but it has next to no public profile, despite the fact that almost all the terrorist plots in the UK and Europe have a strong involvement with Pakistan.

[onmyknees]

That’s awesome. So here you are, a follower of Christ, the Prince of Peace, daydreaming about the joy you’ll feel when another human being is killed. And why are you wishing death upon another human being? Because I hurt your pride by calling you a dummy on the Internet? Isn’t pride a sin, too? You’re a terrible spokesman for the alleged moral superiority of Christianity.

The blank slate is between your ears. It’s not actually all that complicated. I have a job, so I don’t have an enormous amount of time to spend chit-chatting on an Internet porn forum. But ignorance and hypocrisy really drive me ape-shit, and having served in the Middle East and conducted research in other Muslim countries, I actually know a little bit about political Islam, unlike you.

I don’t really understand what my post history here has to do with anything. I’ve discussed my background on several occasions and have made no real attempt to hide who I am or what I do. If you’d actually obsessively tracked down my posts as you claim, you’d have a pretty clear idea of where I’m coming from. But either you haven’t done that, or you’re cognitively impaired, because you continue to misunderstand my fairly simple points:

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.

OK, now you get to totally devastate me by reposting all the times I've mounted a "vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims"... :whistle:

Man...where you been? It was so nice without your endless lectures on tolerance towards Muslims and your Christian bashing. That post is so old, I almost don't remember making it....but I still dislike you...time has not healed that wound !


You really don't understand what your post history has to do with anything>???? That's the most inane thing I've ever heard , and the funniest. It defines who you are and what you believe....Like I said before...you're a basher, a hater...but you fancy yourself as being enlightened ...informed...telling us how you served in the middle east and your deep understaning of Islam. Who gives a fuck about your bio? You're still an shithead who thinks he knows more than he does.... I've been there too but I don't walk around telling the fucking world about it. Try those stories on your co-workers. maybe they'll be impressed. Now...as a for that job of yours...I think they're calling you back to work. Hope to see you in 6 months...But not to worry....even when you return you're still persona non grata...

[tsnajwa]

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

russtafa stop spreading your paranoia and prejudice... if you are from Aus i would be much more concerned about abbos commiting knife crimes there as that is much much more likely to happen in your country than terrorist plot..
xxo

[Stavros]

England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem

Most of the 'plots' as you call them that were prevented by the police relied on information that came from the very same 'Muslim community'. The Muslims in the UK who want to live under Shari'a law are a minority and most of them are grandstanding as Jihadis because they have nothing else to do, or to impress people 'back home' and so on -yes, there are threats and I don't doubt one or two might get under the radar, but the atrocities that have been committed have alienated more Muslims than they have converted.

There is a complexity to the Muslim profile in the UK, most of whom are from the Indian sub-continent and have poor relations with, for example, the Arabs who are not amused at the fact that their brother Muslims cannot speak a word of Arabic but can recite passages from the Qu'ran. One Arab I knew pleaded with me to find him a kosher butcher because he felt he was being ripped off by the Halal butchers from the Indian sub-continent. The same Arab, when introduced to an Iranian, went sullen and silent, while the Somali's many of whom have been established for a long time have their own radical enthusiasts but can also be decent people -an English couple sailing the world in their yacht, hi-jacked by pirates and held in appalling conditions in Somalia, were released through the efforts of a Somali-born taxi driver who gave up his job here and went back to the country to negotiate their release -putting his own life in danger.

As I have said before, there will always be a lunatic fringe, but they are a fringe, and most of them are 'known to the authorities'...

[Prospero]

I've been involved in a big project looking at the orofie of Muslims in the UK and I would fully endorse the remarks just posted by Stavros. Militant Islam in the UK reflects the concerns of a tiny minority. There are a few idiotic loudmouths (like Anjem Choudhary) who reflect nothing - and who have just a tiny coterie of immature and rather silly followers.The reaction in Europe against Muslims (Burka bans in France, minaret bans in Switzerland, the rise of the far right in Holland and elsewhere etc etc) are vastly out of proportion to any real threat posed by islam.

[hippifried]

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.
Well aren't you easily amazed...

We Americans aren't Europeans, or Brits. Since we don't have much of a problem with the American Muslim population, it's hard not to assume that the European & eurocentric problems are just a consequence of their own attitudes. Especially when taking the rants of the eurocentric hate mongers into account.