IS THE ROAD to Socialism Paved with Gay Agenda?

[natina]

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Regardless of Intentions, when Absolute Truths are Eliminated, Slope to Abyss gets Slippery

Can you imagine America's founding Fathers carrying on a debate about whether gay marriage should be permitted under the Constitution they were crafting? The answer is that it likely never crossed their minds. They saw things as black and white – as absolute.

The reason the Founding Fathers didn't debate the issue of homosexual marriage was because it didn't make sense; it flew in the face of the moral standards they set for themselves.

Author Ted Shoebat believes there are far too many people in power right now who are all too eager to rid this nation of those moral standards. He points to the recent court decision in California where a judge struck down the will of the people, the vast majority of whom wanted marriage defined as between one man and one woman – as absolute.

Shoebat points to the newest Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan as well. When discussing what our founders viewed as an absolute right to free speech, Kagan expressed a belief that “societal costs” must be factored in to free speech issues, thereby rendering the right something other than absolute – as relative. Did Kagan have the homosexual agenda in mind as she spoke those words?

History has shown that there are many ways to take a society toward socialism. Is the issue of gay marriage in particular and the gay agenda in general one of the vehicles those on the left would like to use to get us there? Schedule an interview with Ted Shoebat to get a fascinating perspective.

THE WAR ON PROPOSITION 8 PORTENDS SOCIALISM
TED SHOEBAT

"There are no moral absolutes," the foolish told the wise.
"Are you absolutely sure?" replied the wise.

Marriage being only "between a man and a woman" is an absolute. It can never be between a man and a horse or a tree, or between the sun and the moon, a mare and a stallion, chicken and rooster or rooster with rooster.

But the attack on Proposition 8 has nothing to do with the left's love for homosexuals and everything to do with eroding the absolutes set in our Constitution. Altering the U.S Constitution is the only way for socialism to prevail in the U.S. Socialists like Elena Kagan plays with the First amendment, attacking that moral absolute and said to redefine it as depending "upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs."

These "societal costs", spell socialism and nothing more. History tells us that by altering "absolutes" the Left replaced individualism (which works) with collectivism (which doesn't).

Perhaps a little history can help us understand the likes of Kagan and Judge Vaughn Walker overturning Prop 8. Collectivism stems from positivism--founded by French philosopher Auguste Comte (19th century).

Positivism says that human experience is the supreme criterion of human knowledge, denies the existence of a personal God and takes humanity, "the great being", as the object of its veneration in order to elevate man over God. Comte's positivism was derived from Henri de Saint-Simon, a utopian ideologue who was the influence to none other then Karl Marx's socialism.

In his Essay on the Science of Man (1813) Saint-Simon explained that every field of knowledge moved successively from a conjectural to a "positive" stage, and that the sciences reached this stage in a definite order, Physiology had now moved into a positive stage, just as astrology, and alchemy had previously given way to astronomy and chemistry. Now the science of man must move towards the positive stage and completely reorganize all human institutions.1

Aguste Comte perpetuated the search for a science of society through a three-stage theory of progress, which he derived from Saint-Simon in 1822. Thus the idea that truth is not absolute but historical became popularized during the nineteenth-century and is realized not in "individual thought" but in "social action" collectively.

It was Saint-Simon's followers in the 1830s that first gave widespread use not only to the word "socialism," but also—"socialize," "socialization," and socializing the interments of labor. 2 Comte's influence by Saint-Simon explains why he rejected divine human rights: "Social positivism only accepts duties, for all and towards all...Any human right is therefore as absurd and immoral. Since there are no divine rights anymore, this concept must therefore disappear completely..." 3

Later, positivism would now submerge itself with the coming of Darwinian evolution. And since mankind evolves, morality must also evolve with it, and instead of all men are created equal we have Charles's Darwin's doctrine: "Any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well developed...as in man."

It was evolutionist Herbert Spencer who first coined the phrase "Survival of the fittest" that intended to link darwinism and positivism together. Spencer believed that because human nature can improve and change, then, scientific‚ including moral and political views must change with it, that ethics "have to be considered as parts of the phenomena of life at large. We have to deal with man as a product of evolution, with society as a product of evolution, and with moral phenomena as products of evolution." 4

Thus, Spencer believed in the redefining of nations' constitutions: "All evil results from the non-adaptation of constitution to conditions. This is true of everything that lives."5

The final point in evolution according to Spencer was to see a progression to "perfect man in the perfect society." Positivism quickly sprung on its way to America, a land whose constitution is disdained and in need of an altercation. Under positivism, judges were to guide both the evolution of law and the Constitution. By these, the views of the Founding Fathers are hampering the progressing evolution of society.

But if darwinian evolution is a science as claimed, why does it always have to leap onto ethics and morality?

What we are dealing with is noting new. President Woodrow Wilson said that Evolution is "not theory, but fact" that "Living political constitutions must be Darwinian in structure and in practice." 6 Wilson even mocked individual rights: "a lot of nonsense has been talked about the inalienable rights of the individual". 7

Using positivism is nothing new and like Kagan, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. who was appointed to the Supreme Court in 1902 argued extensively that decisions should not be based upon absolute laws but the "felt necessities of the time" and "prevalent moral and political theories" instead of natural law and its absolute standards. Holmes claimed that: "The justification of a law for us cannot be found in the fact that our fathers always have followed it. It must be found in some help which the law brings toward reaching a social end."

It is no longer by the people and for the people, but by the whims of appointed judges. Charles Evans Hughes, the Supreme Court Chief Justice from 1930 to 1941, held a similar view: "We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is." US District Court Chief Judge Vaughn R. Walker's followed suit and overturned Prop 8, by this negating the law in the name of the law. With a stroke of a pen one judge ruled over votes which men bled and died for. Thus is tyranny.

What Elena Kagan is saying reflects the philosophy of the Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall who considered the Constitution and the Founding Fathers as "defective" and unwise. Kagan and her ilk bring nothing new; there are no new tricks under the sun. Americans need to wake up. Believing in absolutes or denying them matters nothing to absolutes, since no matter what choices Americans make, they must still choose between an absolute truth and an absolute lie. We either choose ethics according to God or ethics according to man. We can choose failed Socialism or successful Capitalism.

We can choose Universalism or Nationalism. Even if we do not make a choice at all, we would still have made a choice not to make a choice. I made my choices; I say "No" to the United Nations and yes to the United States with its Constitution set by the founding fathers over all other constitutions.

Indeed, if history repeats itself, it does so only on the fools. There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 14:12)





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<FONT color=#ffffff>Saturday, January 15, 2011

[tnuhnhoj]

Very well said. I can't wait to read how you are going to be attached on this site.

[yodajazz]

If one is to look only at the morality of the founding fathers, women did not have the right to vote, and slaves had no rights at all. I think in some cases only property owners had the right to vote. But human consciousness has evolved. When Barrack Obama was born (1960), it was still illegal for Whites and Blacks to get married in some states, and for Black to drink at certain public water fountains. Also at that time, certain sexual acts were consider illegal, even between married people, such as anal intercourse, I believe.

But here and many other places, it has come to a new understanding about private sexual behavior, between consenting adults, that does not cause physical harm.

But I do think that somewhere in the founding documents it says one of the purposes of government, is to "promote the general welfare". It assumes that there are things are good for the general public.

This leads to the point of: What is so bad about "socialism", when you already have a society that recognizes the right to private property? It seems to me that the word is just the latest scare word, to manipulate people not to look at the wealthy class, that is gaining more and more percentage of American wealth. They say it is class warfare, to question why over time, a worker's salary has doubled, while the CEO's salary has been multiplied by 200.

The US is never going to turn into a 'Soviet styled' state. For one thing, there is already a democratic government in place. Pure capitolism has no nationality. Wall Street reportedly earned record bonuses this past year, partially by foriegn investments. There is no need for them to create jobs. Its really about changing money with things like futures trading. I dont call losing 8 million jobs, in foru years, or one million home foreclosures in one year, "successful capitolism".

[Caff_Racer]

This leads to the point of: What is so bad about "socialism", when you already have a society that recognizes the right to private property? It seems to me that the word is just the latest scare word, to manipulate people not to look at the wealthy class, that is gaining more and more percentage of American wealth. They say it is class warfare, to question why over time, a worker's salary has doubled, while the CEO's salary has been multiplied by 200.

The US is never going to turn into a 'Soviet styled' state. For one thing, there is already a democratic government in place. Pure capitolism has no nationality. Wall Street reportedly earned record bonuses this past year, partially by foriegn investments. There is no need for them to create jobs. Its really about changing money with things like futures trading. I dont call losing 8 million jobs, in foru years, or one million home foreclosures in one year, "successful capitolism".

Good point, well made.

In any case the "Socialism" that is used as a sort of bogeyman in the US - conjuring up images of the evil Commie who worships Stalin, Lenin, El Che, and other famous names of the extreme Left - doesn't really exist any more. For instance, here in Europe, Socialists have moved a long way towards the political Right in the past 20, 25 years. Just take a look at the UK, where "Teflon" Tony Blair (did I say Blair? Sorry, I meant Bliar) single-handedly dragged the Labour Party to the right of the Conservative Party, to the consternation of many old-timer grass-roots Labour militants. In France, the Parti Socialiste came apart at the seams once François Miterrand called it a day, and is now a centre-left party (with the emphasis on centre): I mean, how can you preach Socialism when one of your own (Dominique Strauss-Kahn) is the Managing Director of the IMF? And the same goes for Spain and pretty much all of the other countries in Europe.

[BlackMath]

Enjoy your time on this transgender pornography forum.

[Caff_Racer]

Enjoy your time on this transgender pornography forum.

No worries, mate, I always enjoy it here! :cheers:

[templek]

The founding fathers also sanctioned the genocide and theft of the Native Americans lands by driving them off at gun point after breaking agreements made with them. They also promised them and blacks who supported them in the war of independence and civil war,land right guarantees, freedom and equal rights. They promptly broke them afterwards. Would you live in those so called times where they saw everything in black and white, ie the strong oppressive the weak in the name of christianity, progress and profit? Or the more enlightened times of now? Out of interest, i know they have black history month in America. Do they have anything similar for the Native Americans in schools? Do they teach the evils that was done in the name of America against them and that it was an eternal wrong? Or is it a taboo subject no one talks about? Marlon Brando tried to make a true film about the genocide against the Native Americans, but the hollywood studios pulled the plugs on it.

[BallBuster]

NATINA, is that TS loving, closet homo, Dick Cheney?.

[onmyknees]

If one is to look only at the morality of the founding fathers, women did not have the right to vote, and slaves had no rights at all. I think in some cases only property owners had the right to vote. But human consciousness has evolved. When Barrack Obama was born (1960), it was still illegal for Whites and Blacks to get married in some states, and for Black to drink at certain public water fountains. Also at that time, certain sexual acts were consider illegal, even between married people, such as anal intercourse, I believe.

But here and many other places, it has come to a new understanding about private sexual behavior, between consenting adults, that does not cause physical harm.

But I do think that somewhere in the founding documents it says one of the purposes of government, is to "promote the general welfare". It assumes that there are things are good for the general public.

This leads to the point of: What is so bad about "socialism", when you already have a society that recognizes the right to private property? It seems to me that the word is just the latest scare word, to manipulate people not to look at the wealthy class, that is gaining more and more percentage of American wealth. They say it is class warfare, to question why over time, a worker's salary has doubled, while the CEO's salary has been multiplied by 200.

The US is never going to turn into a 'Soviet styled' state. For one thing, there is already a democratic government in place. Pure capitolism has no nationality. Wall Street reportedly earned record bonuses this past year, partially by foriegn investments. There is no need for them to create jobs. Its really about changing money with things like futures trading. I dont call losing 8 million jobs, in foru years, or one million home foreclosures in one year, "successful capitolism".

I think you make a common mistake if you go down the road of questioning the morality of the founders. It has become fashionable in recent times looking to things like slavery and be superficially critical of their work. We tend to evaluate thier work in 2011 terms, But the fact of the matter was they struggled mightily with these issues, and these documents needed ratification similar to any bill now that works it's way through Congress, concessions were made for the greater good. There was obviously contradictions in the founding documents for a reason. The inherent beauty of their work is they provided a way for us to move forward and correct some of the injustices the original documents could not. This paragraph best describes their torment on the slavery issue.

The Founding Fathers ran into a dilemma when it came to slavery. Their ideology of freedom and the right to own property conflicted with the freedom of the slaves. Freehling says, "On the one hand they were restrained by their overriding interest in creating the Union, by their concern for property rights, and by their visions of race war and miscegenation: on the other hand they embraced a revolutionary ideology that made emancipation inescapable." This dilemma was solved by the Founding Fathers as described in the following passage, "Whenever dangers to Union, property, or racial order seemed to them acute, the Founding Fathers did little But whenever abolition dangers seemed to them manageable Jefferson and his contemporaries moved effectively, circumscribing and crippling the institution and thereby gutting its long-range capacity to endure." This means that the Founding Fathers did not worry about small things that had little affect in the short-run, but when the opportunity arose for them to safely fight against slavery they did so trying not to end slavery right away but rather trying to diminish hopes of it surviving in the long term.
The first law attempting to control slavery was a congregational ordinance written by Thomas Jefferson in 1784. This law would have made slavery illegal in all Western territories after 1800.

With respect to your "what's so bad with socialism" question, surely you're romanticizing...one could respond to that with tens of thousands of words, but for the sake of brevity, I'll simply say this...show me one place it's sustained itself successfully for any duration. Cuba? Romania? El Salvador? China? anywhere in Africa? Even today's modern Social Democrats in the EU find their policies have fostered an era of unsustainability. There is no hybrid version of socialism that you appear to be a proponent of that's ever going to work here. To paraphrase, a famous Britt.. free market democracy isn't perfect until you start looking around at what others have.

[Richctdude]

capatalism is slavery!!

[GrimFusion]

Just because gay rights didn't exist in 1789 doesn't make them a socialist or democratic issue now. Proposition 8 failed in California thanks to the monetary and social contributions of the Mormon and Catholic churches, not because some judge was riding the moral high-ground. In fact, California now exists as the only state in the U.S. which has limited human rights by amending to it's state constitution.

Connecting socialism with gay rights is nothing but a scare tactic in a time when the majority of our country is turning to the republicans for an answer to all the government fuckary that's been going on the last four years. With so many other immediate problems (the economy, job market, housing market, etc), gay rights seems like a blip on the radar and focusing on them seems nothing more than a distraction from issues that "really matter".

[BigDF]

The US is never going to turn into a 'Soviet styled' state. For one thing, there is already a democratic government in place. Pure capitolism has no nationality. Wall Street reportedly earned record bonuses this past year, partially by foriegn investments. There is no need for them to create jobs. Its really about changing money with things like futures trading. I dont call losing 8 million jobs, in foru years, or one million home foreclosures in one year, "successful capitolism".Sorry, yoda, edited your post for brevity and kept this because it was the most relevant to the question posed. You are absolutely right in this paragraph. Unfortunately many of our people do not seem to understand much about how are country is run. We are not and really never have been completely capitalist. I truly do not understand all this crap about us becoming socialist, because we've been embracing some socialism for years now. Social Security, Medicare, and all of the other government programs where our money is spent supporting an ever growing part of our population is much more in line with socialism than capitalism. So is bailing out the banks and other firms on the brink of failure back in 2008, despite the fact that they claim to be good capitalists.

This country was founded on the basis of the radical idea that everyone is created equally and deserves to be treated that way. Like most great ideas it has been improved over time and much blood has been spilled along the way. The language in the Constitution reflects the culture of the men who wrote it which is quite different from the culture now. This so called "Gay Agenda" is nothing more than a group of our people demanding equal treatment that they deserve under the laws of our land. It is not some horrible conspiracy to undermine the country as many like to claim.

[Stavros]

There is a separate section on this board called 'Politics and Religion' which is where this incoherent nonsense should be. Marx was more influenced by Hegel than by Comte, Herbert Spencer is closer to Dick Cheney than Marx, etc etc. How the constitution helps or hinders the Transgendered in the US ought to be the issue.

[onmyknees]

Sorry, yoda, edited your post for brevity and kept this because it was the most relevant to the question posed. You are absolutely right in this paragraph. Unfortunately many of our people do not seem to understand much about how are country is run. We are not and really never have been completely capitalist. I truly do not understand all this crap about us becoming socialist, because we've been embracing some socialism for years now. Social Security, Medicare, and all of the other government programs where our money is spent supporting an ever growing part of our population is much more in line with socialism than capitalism. So is bailing out the banks and other firms on the brink of failure back in 2008, despite the fact that they claim to be good capitalists.

This country was founded on the basis of the radical idea that everyone is created equally and deserves to be treated that way. Like most great ideas it has been improved over time and much blood has been spilled along the way. The language in the Constitution reflects the culture of the men who wrote it which is quite different from the culture now. This so called "Gay Agenda" is nothing more than a group of our people demanding equal treatment that they deserve under the laws of our land. It is not some horrible conspiracy to undermine the country as many like to claim.
Good social policy has nothing to do with Socialism. The 2 examples you used are currently gulping up the vast majority of our GNP and are unsustainable it their current form. That is to say that at some point in the future the amount of liabilities paid out on both these enormous programs, no matter how well intentioned....will exceed what is being collected. That's called bankruptcy...yet amazingly we seem to go about our merry way not at all concerned about the day of reckoning. When someone brings up the issue of reform, he's plastered with demagoguery. The problem is not with Wall Street it's with K Street and both buildings on either end of Pennysalvania Ave. who continue to kick the can down the raod and continue to take the political path of least resistance rather than force us to take the bad medicine we need !

[phobun]

Good social policy has nothing to do with Socialism. The 2 examples you used are currently gulping up the vast majority of our GNP and are unsustainable it their current form. That is to say that at some point in the future the amount of liabilities paid out on both these enormous programs, no matter how well intentioned....will exceed what is being collected. That's called bankruptcy...yet amazingly we seem to go about our merry way not at all concerned about the day of reckoning. When someone brings up the issue of reform, he's plastered with demagoguery. The problem is not with Wall Street it's with K Street and both buildings on either end of Pennysalvania Ave. who continue to kick the can down the raod and continue to take the political path of least resistance rather than force us to take the bad medicine we need !


I agree with the urgent need for fiscal sanity but I would add that we must also stop spending so much on the military and cut way, way back on the overseas adventures.

[BigDF]

Good social policy has nothing to do with Socialism. The 2 examples you used are currently gulping up the vast majority of our GNP and are unsustainable it their current form. That is to say that at some point in the future the amount of liabilities paid out on both these enormous programs, no matter how well intentioned....will exceed what is being collected. That's called bankruptcy...yet amazingly we seem to go about our merry way not at all concerned about the day of reckoning. When someone brings up the issue of reform, he's plastered with demagoguery. The problem is not with Wall Street it's with K Street and both buildings on either end of Pennysalvania Ave. who continue to kick the can down the raod and continue to take the political path of least resistance rather than force us to take the bad medicine we need !While I agree with you in principle on this issue, I really have to confess that I would just as soon they continued to kick the can down the road until I am safely under the sod. I am retired on disability and Social Security is 2/3 of my income. I would be bankrupt right now if it wasn't for Medicare. All of us are to blame for this mess, because we keep putting the same people back into Washington and most of us vote for the person who agrees with everything we like.

And as one person has mentioned, there is a place for this kind thread and General Discussion is not it.

[onmyknees]

I agree with the urgent need for fiscal sanity but I would add that we must also stop spending so much on the military and cut way, way back on the overseas adventures.


:iagree:

[russtafa]

P.C destroys cultures

[Jackal]

Just because gay rights didn't exist in 1789 doesn't make them a socialist or democratic issue now. Proposition 8 failed in California thanks to the monetary and social contributions of the Mormon and Catholic churches, not because some judge was riding the moral high-ground. In fact, California now exists as the only state in the U.S. which has limited human rights by amending to it's state constitution.

Connecting socialism with gay rights is nothing but a scare tactic in a time when the majority of our country is turning to the republicans for an answer to all the government fuckary that's been going on the last four years. With so many other immediate problems (the economy, job market, housing market, etc), gay rights seems like a blip on the radar and focusing on them seems nothing more than a distraction from issues that "really matter".

Exactly. The word gay(in a sexual orientation manner) and homosexual did not exist back then, why the fuck would they debate about words that would not be defined until later during the ensuing century. I'm sure there will be new debates/issues 230 years from now that are not currently in our political mindset.

[LaCosa]

If one is to look only at the morality of the founding fathers, women did not have the right to vote, and slaves had no rights at all. I think in some cases only property owners had the right to vote. But human consciousness has evolved. When Barrack Obama was born (1960), it was still illegal for Whites and Blacks to get married in some states, and for Black to drink at certain public water fountains. Also at that time, certain sexual acts were consider illegal, even between married people, such as anal intercourse, I believe.


I don't think "human conscience" evolving has anything to do with it. In fact I would say the contemporary urban slums with open sewage in places like Indonesia and Brazil are much worse than the rural poverty that existed during the European Middle Ages. This is without going into all the environmental destruction that caused deformities from birth since the industrial 1800's, or nuclear weapons, or near-nuclear-weapons (e.g., "bunker busters"), or land mines.

Homosexuality and bisexuality were more commonplace in certain societies before the birth of the United States. The 1600's Italy was one of the most bisexual societies to ever exist. Throughout Europe they were regarded as sodomites that preferred boys equally to girls. The Spanish blamed the Italians for exporting sodomy into their conservative culture.

The Japanese Samurai were very bisexual. Many Amerindian nations openly tolerated homosexuality, and at least one tribe in Latin America mandated (not tolerated) that every man take a male lover and not just a female wife. In North America the medicine men among Amerindians were often called "Two Spirits" which referred to them as being bisexual.

Ancient Sparta was a gay and lesbian as one could get.

And slavery still exists. It exists in Africa within certain Black-African pagan tribes and certain Muslim societies in Africa (e.g., Mauritania). This slave trade predates the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and and has lasted centuries past it. The slave trade in the West ended largely due to Christians of various traditions. I'm half black and white. My white side is German-American extending into Trier, Germany and Hungary. From that side I inherited Catholicism which brought - albeit through slow process - my Germanic ancestors out of barbarity (not the ancient Romans). My German ancestors to the USA were part of the so-called 49ers. They came in the 1840's. More so than one fought for the Union during the Civil War and almost all the Midwestern Germans were racist but abolitionists. The German Turners Club became the personal body guards of President Abraham Lincoln. I have read of no black African equivalent of an English William Wilberforce. In fact the English found it almost impossible to convince the black African empires and tribes to stop selling black people into slavery. The European Renaissance typically glorified slavery because it wanted to emulate the "glorious" past of ancient Rome which had the largest urban slavery in the world until the establishment of Rio de Janiero. The European Renaissance was financed with the help of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. A tid bit modern atheists like to not mention.

These Germans were quite different than those that colonized a certain region with in Africa (Southwest Africa I think?) or the National Socialist (Nazi's that would rise in the early 20th century).

The 1800's U.S. Navy also appears to have been a very openly male-on-male sexual culture and one in which gay pedophilia was tolerated. You can refer to historian and author Burg's book Gay Warriors.



But here and many other places, it has come to a new understanding about private sexual behavior, between consenting adults, that does not cause physical harm.


Fallacious. Read author and enemy of the Catholic Church, Peter Robb's book on famous Italian painter Carravagio. The United States is hardly as gay tolerant as 1600's Italy or the Papal States. Robb even acknowledges Leonardo Da Vinci was not only gay but a gay pedophile at that. Da Vinci was sodomizing a 7 or 8 year old boy at one point. It was common practice of Italian painters during that period to sodomize one of the small boy apprentices that would live with them.

Prostitution - both male and female - were legal in the Papal States at one time but restricted to certain quarters. All the females you see in Carravagio's painting were real life women that were famous prostitutes in Italy. The Cardinal that commissioned his religious paintings using these female prostitutes were well aware of this. Contemporary American politics is no where near as tolerant of such a thing. It would cost a politician their career to be associated with "approving" of such sinners or "low lifes" in our society. But even contemporary Italian politics today is wild compared to the U.S. Even the Vatican under John Paul II chuckled at American journalists moralized obsession over the President Bill Clinton sexual affair with Monica Lewinsky.

Not even modern day New York outlaws "consenting adults" from negotiating prices for their sexual services (prostitution). This after centuries passing since St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas taught that prostitution while a vice should be legal.

According to Peter Robb... Naples (I think during either the 1400's or 1600's) is the birth place of modern transsexualism. Apparently, it was rather common or at least not unknown in that cosmopolitan port city that was a cross section of the world.



But I do think that somewhere in the founding documents it says one of the purposes of government, is to "promote the general welfare". It assumes that there are things are good for the general public.

This leads to the point of: What is so bad about "socialism", when you already have a society that recognizes the right to private property? It seems to me that the word is just the latest scare word, to manipulate people not to look at the wealthy class, that is gaining more and more percentage of American wealth. They say it is class warfare, to question why over time, a worker's salary has doubled, while the CEO's salary has been multiplied by 200.


Both the Incas and later the Jesuit Reductions of what is now Latin America, were close to socialist "paradises." They both in certain respects surpassed the modern day Detroit and probably every city of the United States in extending admirable, material, quality of life to all its inhabitants. Both were rather authoritarian cultures, however. Nonetheless, homelessness did not exist because every person was provided a house for. The highest form of punishment on Jesuit Reductions were expulsion (if my memory serves me correct, but don't quote me), because the quality of life was so high. White Spaniards envied the Amerindians on them. To this day, the highest form of punishment in the United States is capital punishment.



The US is never going to turn into a 'Soviet styled' state. For one thing, there is already a democratic government in place. Pure capitolism has no nationality. Wall Street reportedly earned record bonuses this past year, partially by foriegn investments. There is no need for them to create jobs. Its really about changing money with things like futures trading. I dont call losing 8 million jobs, in foru years, or one million home foreclosures in one year, "successful capitolism".


The United States has always undergone increased democratization and did not really become a democracy until the year 1920 when women (roughly half the U.S. population) were given the Federally protected right to vote. Jim Crow through poll taxes disenfranchised millions of Black-Americans of the vote into the 1960's.

The United States even today is hardly a beacon of true democracy. Look at the alma maters of Obama and George W. Bush. They were educated at "king makers." No U.S. president will come from my university: UW-Milwaukee. To become a U.S. President you have to travel in certain circles and be tapped by the powers within those circles. You don't sleep in cheap motels.

The election of Chavez and Lula in South America represented a more true democratic movement. Lula never passed the 7th grade and both come from literal abject poverty. Chavez was only college educated through the Venezuelan military. Both know incarceration. Chavez listened to a young man be gang raped and stabbed to death in prison one night. Venezuela arguably has the most dangerous prisons on planet earth - even far more deadly than Brazilian prisons. Out of all the millions of Black-Americans that have been incarcerated in jails or prisons within the United States, what the hell does Obama know about prisons?

[LaCosa]

Just because gay rights didn't exist in 1789 doesn't make them a socialist or democratic issue now. Proposition 8 failed in California thanks to the monetary and social contributions of the Mormon and Catholic churches, not because some judge was riding the moral high-ground. In fact, California now exists as the only state in the U.S. which has limited human rights by amending to it's state constitution.

Connecting socialism with gay rights is nothing but a scare tactic in a time when the majority of our country is turning to the republicans for an answer to all the government fuckary that's been going on the last four years. With so many other immediate problems (the economy, job market, housing market, etc), gay rights seems like a blip on the radar and focusing on them seems nothing more than a distraction from issues that "really matter".



I don't find "gay marriage" - and I've done a slight bit of reading on it's history, but very far from any extensive reading on its history - to be a human rights issue.

I find it to be an oxymoron. It's like suggesting "atheist prayer to a deity" be legislated by the government as a human rights issue. Aside from the fact civil marriage arguably oversteps secular state government grounds, I'm sure the concept of "atheist prayer to a deity" sounds ludicrous because its an oxymoron.

Marriage is a concept specifically related to sexual responsibility towards the creation of offspring as it relates to inheritance rights and education of children. It also promoted male responsibility toward the women they screwed and impregnated.

The family is part of the "basic structure" of society. It's also the first school or morality and virtue of a child. Hence, if the parents are screwed up often times the children are reared screwed up. I'm speaking of heterosexual parents here (e.g., abusive alcoholic parents etc.).

Black-America in my mind acts as a model for the decline of the family (albeit slavery did a lot of evil destruction to that too). Something like 70% of Black-American women giving birth to children are single. Black-America is largely a matriarchy, too. The violence and social pathology are significant in Black-America. AFDC's mandate that no man be in the home did not great good for the promotion of a strong black family.

And none of this is to say I approve of the Republicans past deregulation of the banks. That's what helped lead to the great housing scandal and economic recession of the United States and global depressions around the world.

For the most part I'm politically agnostic and metaphysically monotheistic with strong Catholic influences.

Marriage is a social construct (or sacramental for those Catholic or Orthodox) and it has nothing to do with biological science. I find all contemporary attempts to use "science" to justify "gay marriage" as scientific as Eugenics. Interestingly enough both study body plans and measure specific parts of the human anatomy to argue genetic inheritance through natural selection.

Fortunately, the Catholic Church produces historians, philosophers, theologians, scientists in the single body of persons like the remarkable Father Stanley Jaki Ph.D. not to mention all the extraordinarily educated Jesuits that make up the ranks of medical doctors, astronomers, anthropologist, linguists, lawyers, physicists, economists, and so on. So, the ever never-wish-to-die eugenics movement is amply challenged on the academic and geopolitical stage.

If the remarkable intellectual and novelist Malachi Martin (former Jesuit, released from his vows, that ended up driving cabs and waiting tables in New York City to survive) is correct, I say if he is correct, then the Vatican and world governments including that of the United States has been infiltrated by Satanists at least since the 1960's. That's if he's correct. I have no idea if he is or not. But he claims Satanists hold powerful and prestigious positions such as Catholic Cardinalship, D.C. politicians, lawyers, medical doctors, economists and so on. Many are married, respected citizens in the world, according to him.

[natina]

REPEATED HERE OFTEN cause of underly issues;the same race threads,cd VS ts
people ask why do I post about TIME WISE and professor GATES and others


well you know the same posters will post a race thread then when they

are not wining the debate will immediate post another race thread to

annoy people.

examples pictures of the KKK or calling people the N-word

I POST PICTURES AND ESSAY ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE AND THERE ISSUES

WITH NOT HAVING COPING SKILLS.
TIM WISE
talks about white violence because of the coping factor
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html (http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html)



Has Black Friday arrived in America? If so, are you prepared?

Actually, if you're a "white" American, there's a good chance that you're less prepared than other Americans. Emotionally that, is. And mentally. Maybe even physically.

As is so often the case, Tim Wise has explained well this common symptom of learning to be white:

Racism and white privilege/supremacy generates a mindset of entitlement among those in the dominant group. This entitlement mentality can prove dangerous, whenever the expectations of a member of the group are frustrated. Principally this is because such persons develop very weak coping skills as a result of never having to overcome the obstacles that oppressed folks deal with every day and MUST conquer in order to survive.

So, as a result, it is the privileged (the beneficiaries of racism, and also, it should be pointed out, the class system) who are ill-prepared for setback: the loss of a job, stocks taking a nose-dive (who were the folks jumping out the windows in the great depression–not poor folks and folks of color, but rich whites who couldn’t handle being broke!) Likewise, if you look at the various personal pathologies that tend to be disproportionate in the white community (and upper middle class for that matter), they are interesting in that they all are about control–controlling one’s anxiety, emotional pain, or controlling and dominating others–like suicide, substance abuse, eating disorders, self-injury/mutilation, serial killing and mass murder (as opposed to just regular one-on-one homicide), sexual sadism killings, etc.

Not knowing how the world works is dangerous. White privilege and racism allow the dominant group to live in a bubble of unreality. Most days that’s no big deal I suppose. But every now and then reality intrudes on you and if you haven’t been expecting it, the trauma is magnified. So, when 9/11 happened, millions of whites were running around saying “why do they hate us?” because whites have never had to see our nation the way others do–we’ve been able to live in la-la land.

But folks of color didn’t say this, because those without privilege HAVE to know what others think about them. Not to do so is to be in perpetual danger. So whites flipped out, and by virtue of being unprepared, pushed for a policy response (war) that folks of color were HIGHLY skeptical of from the beginning. But whites, enthralled by our sense of righteousness (itself a manifestation of privilege), pushed forward, convinced that the war in Iraq would go swimmingly. How’s that working out?
In other words, racism and privilege generate mentalities and policies that are dysfunctional, even deadly for whites as with folks of color. Folks of color are the first victims, to be sure, and the worst. But as someone else said, what goes around. . .
Privilege creates a false sense of security. Being the dominant group can set you up for a fall, can prevent you from building up the coping skills needed to deal with setback, because so often those skills are ones you just don't need.
Until you do, that is.


[This quotation is adapted from two sources: a comment Tim Wise wrote at Resist Racism (http://resistracism.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/how-does-racism-harm-white-people/), and one of his books, White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son (http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9781933368993-0). Lyrics (http://www.steelydan.com/lyrkaty.html#track1) for Steely Dan's song "Black Friday"]



This is a clip from The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality, the newly released video from the Media Education Foundation. The video is of a speech given by Tim Wise at Mt. Holyoke College, October 1, 2007.



The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)


http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)


more complete video but has relatedlinks/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related)


Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1)


affirmative action /school bias white people have affimative action to


YouTube - white people have affimative action to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0)



“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1


http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/ (http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/)

[natina]

coping skills


there are so many threads here about not dating black men and black men are this and that and black ts are ugly and so on ....
yada yada yada........

so this is to temper



http://www.timwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dvd-150-whiteprivilege.png


http://www.timwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/book-150-whitelikeme.png


http://www.timwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/book-150-speaking.png



http://www.timwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/book-150-colorblind.png


YouTube - Tim Wise: On White Privilege (Clip) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)


YouTube - Talk - Tim Wise on White Privilege (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA)

[natina]

THE TOPIC IS ABOUT WHITE PRIVILEGE and what happens to white people as a result of receiving white privilege

white person is more likely to shot up a school,kill his whole family, serial killer

[natina]

THE CREATION OF WHITENESS

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip
http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip
http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip
http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip

[a994]

:iagree:
:iagree:

[LaCosa]

:confused: I thought this thread was about socialism and gay marriage. How did Time Wise and "white privilege" jump into this?

Eh... I don't understand the connection.

[Silcc69]

:confused: I thought this thread was about socialism and gay marriage. How did Time Wise and "white privilege" jump into this?

Eh... I don't understand the connection.

Who knows what else natina has in store for us. :wiggle::wiggle:

[yodajazz]

Good social policy has nothing to do with Socialism. The 2 examples you used are currently gulping up the vast majority of our GNP and are unsustainable it their current form. That is to say that at some point in the future the amount of liabilities paid out on both these enormous programs, no matter how well intentioned....will exceed what is being collected. That's called bankruptcy...yet amazingly we seem to go about our merry way not at all concerned about the day of reckoning. When someone brings up the issue of reform, he's plastered with demagoguery. The problem is not with Wall Street it's with K Street and both buildings on either end of Pennysalvania Ave. who continue to kick the can down the raod and continue to take the political path of least resistance rather than force us to take the bad medicine we need !

Changes have been made Social Security. The retirement age being raised to 67, is just one example. I think that it is logical that any entity facing bancruptcy, will make changes, to stay in operation. But I am curious as to what specific changes you would recommend?

Some of the issues come down to economic views. From my view, I see Social Security, as an efficient way to circulate money in the economy. A decent percentage of the money goes to nursing facilities, who then hire employees, that do such things as but cars and pay taxes, including Social Security. Some seniors are able to live in their homes, which then keeps of the occupancy rates, thus supporting home values. Medicare goes directly to the medical profession, thus supporting the quality of healthcare. Individuals who live with families then become part of the household support system, who then could afford cable, the internet, or rent movies etc. Money then circulates,through the middle class.

Compare the benefits of 1 million SS dollars (100 people with benefits, for 1 year, as an example) to a 1 million dollar drone missle. Yes, people are paid to make and transport missles. Yet the results of killing two militants, and 10 bystanders are questionable. Its more like, creating job opportunities for the real America haters, in those impoverished places we attack. And stories of the deaths of innocent people, have to be like their best recruitment tool. Around the time of 9/11 articles pointed out, that the US had recently given the Taliban, 25 million to fight the war on drugs there. Then we spent money to go fight the same people. And in recent months some Afghan official was caught with 25 million in a foreign airport, and let go. I hope he wasn't going to buy drugs with that money. But, I digress.

Even some of the poorest of people pay Social Security taxes. I heard the government has been borrowing from Social Security. Then compare this to 16 million dollars of weapons that disappeared in Iraq. That's a potential safety liability, much more that those, that use SS money as part of their church tithes.

[yodajazz]

:confused: I thought this thread was about socialism and gay marriage. How did Time Wise and "white privilege" jump into this?

Eh... I don't understand the connection.

Simple. Either Tim Wise is gay, and wants to get married, or Natina's browser inserts Tim Wise in every thread.

[trish]

"There are no moral absolutes," the foolish told the wise.
"Are you absolutely sure?" replied the wise.
"Yes, he's right...there are no moral absolutes, just whatever I say," chimed in the magical being some here on Earth call God.
"If you love the absolute so much, why don't you marry it," added Pee Wee Herman.

Slavery is slavery. Economic suppression is economic suppression.

[natina]

because you wrote this in the thread

Black-America in my mind acts as a model for the decline of the family (albeit slavery did a lot of evil destruction to that too). Something like 70% of Black-American women giving birth to children are single. Black-America is largely a matriarchy, too. The violence and social pathology are significant in Black-America. AFDC's mandate that no man be in the home did not great good for the promotion of a strong black family.


http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)
http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)
http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)


:confused: I thought this thread was about socialism and gay marriage. How did Time Wise and "white privilege" jump into this?

Eh... I don't understand the connection.


http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)



YouTube - Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1)




YouTube - white people have affimative action to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0)

[natina]

YouTube - What is White Privilege? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ONuBBmRRpM&feature=fvw)

YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 1/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ8xQPdjJfM&feature=related)

YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 2/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlqLijhxT_M&feature=related)


YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 3/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQWP7fUSPJU&feature=related)


YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 4/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o13Lr6Sr_cU&feature=related)

YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 5/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VuA_wXi02I&feature=related)

YouTube - Tim Wise-The Pathology of White Privilege Part 6/6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo_jYssnXQ&feature=related)

[onmyknees]

Changes have been made Social Security. The retirement age being raised to 67, is just one example. I think that it is logical that any entity facing bancruptcy, will make changes, to stay in operation. But I am curious as to what specific changes you would recommend?

Some of the issues come down to economic views. From my view, I see Social Security, as an efficient way to circulate money in the economy. A decent percentage of the money goes to nursing facilities, who then hire employees, that do such things as but cars and pay taxes, including Social Security. Some seniors are able to live in their homes, which then keeps of the occupancy rates, thus supporting home values. Medicare goes directly to the medical profession, thus supporting the quality of healthcare. Individuals who live with families then become part of the household support system, who then could afford cable, the internet, or rent movies etc. Money then circulates,through the middle class.

Compare the benefits of 1 million SS dollars (100 people with benefits, for 1 year, as an example) to a 1 million dollar drone missle. Yes, people are paid to make and transport missles. Yet the results of killing two militants, and 10 bystanders are questionable. Its more like, creating job opportunities for the real America haters, in those impoverished places we attack. And stories of the deaths of innocent people, have to be like their best recruitment tool. Around the time of 9/11 articles pointed out, that the US had recently given the Taliban, 25 million to fight the war on drugs there. Then we spent money to go fight the same people. And in recent months some Afghan official was caught with 25 million in a foreign airport, and let go. I hope he wasn't going to buy drugs with that money. But, I digress.

Even some of the poorest of people pay Social Security taxes. I heard the government has been borrowing from Social Security. Then compare this to 16 million dollars of weapons that disappeared in Iraq. That's a potential safety liability, much more that those, that use SS money as part of their church tithes.

What would I do on SSI ??

First....raise the age to 68. Second means test it. If you are making over 100K in other retirement income, yes we made a contract with you, but sorry to say we're breaking it. Third...make new workers entering the job market understand that they'd better not count on SSI for the majority of thier retirement income. Fourth...allow those who want to invest a percentage of thier SSI contributions in certain targeted securities ( S&P 500 stocks muny bonds, etc) Recall when that was proposed the demagogues made sure it never saw the light of day. Remember....it's not thier money...it's yours. Fifth....finally get serious about throwing all the hacks and leaches off the SSI disability rolls.

[Cuchulain]

SS can be fixed easily and that fix doesn't include raising the retirement age. The guy raking concrete or laying block or tossing around a 90lb. jackhammer or climbing the high steel is pretty beat up by sixty, let alone 68.

Take the cap off. We currently pay SS tax on about the first $107k of wages. Change that so we pay SS tax on ALL income, including dividends and capital gains and SS is fine forever.

[LaCosa]

because you wrote this in the thread

Black-America in my mind acts as a model for the decline of the family (albeit slavery did a lot of evil destruction to that too). Something like 70% of Black-American women giving birth to children are single. Black-America is largely a matriarchy, too. The violence and social pathology are significant in Black-America. AFDC's mandate that no man be in the home did not great good for the promotion of a strong black family.





I think you were reading too much into my comment. You'll find social pathologies among whites and others as well. It used to be only white men were being arrested for serial killing, now increasingly they are black men too. I live in Milwaukee. Some what recently ago a black cat was arrested for serial killing. One black guy was let out of prison after this serial killers DNA was found on the corpse of the woman he was convicted of murdering.

Cleveland and Chicago both had black male serial killers operating at the same time this black serial killer in Milwaukee was operating. (the one in Milwaukee was operating as far back as when white Jeffery Dhamer was operating in Milwaukee).

But the reason I used Black-America is because the decline of the family has been more pronounced there than in White-America (which has a significant decline in the family too). Black-America also suffers disproportionately more from homicides, incarceration, and HIV/AIDS.

Mind you... the media blows the HIV rate in Black-America out of proportion. But it's still double the U.S. rate. About 1% of Americans have HIV, so, it's about 2% to 2.3% of Black-Americans last time I did the math. In raw numbers that's a lot of people when you consider there's 300 million plus people in the U.S. The number of all Black-American people with HIV, off the top of my head, could fit into the City of Milwaukee. And in Milwaukee half the black men that engage in male-on-male sex have HIV - according to the last statistical report I read.

[natina]

"Those infected are almost all white, male, gay and young," the article continued
And the trend is not confined to the United States: researchers in the U.K. and Europe have also noted the increase, reported British newspaper The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/07/young-gay-men-hiv-epidemic) on Sept. 7. "By investigating the genetic profile of the virus in more than 500 newly screened patients over nine years, scientists in Belgium have identified clusters of people with type B virus--not the one that is most prevalent in Africa," The Guardian reported. "Those infected are almost all white, male, gay and young," the article continued.

The researchers noted that, "Members of this cluster are significantly younger than the rest of the population and have more chlamydia and syphilis infections," the article said.






The AIDS crisis that ravaged the gay community in cities like New York and San Francisco may be less visible, but it is still raging, health experts earn--and a new wave of HIV infections may be about to crest.


For some time, researchers have noted that despite efforts to promote safer sex, HIV rates are climbing among young gay men. So are rates for other sexually transmitted diseases, such as syphilis; unfortunately, individuals already infected with one STI may be at an elevated risk for contracting others, including HIV.


While some of the blame may rest with younger gays not having access to safer sex messages, a perception among young MSMs (men who have sex with men) that AIDS is no longer a serious health concern may also be driving the increased incidence in HIV. Most serious of all, however, is a tendency toward unsafe sex and other risky behaviors, such as drug use, which affect judgment and may lead to more unsafe sex-and a higher rate of HIV infection.


And the trend is not confined to the United States: researchers in the U.K. and Europe have also noted the increase, reported British newspaper The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/07/young-gay-men-hiv-epidemic) on Sept. 7. "By investigating the genetic profile of the virus in more than 500 newly screened patients over nine years, scientists in Belgium have identified clusters of people with type B virus--not the one that is most prevalent in Africa," The Guardian reported. "Those infected are almost all white, male, gay and young," the article continued.


The researchers noted that, "Members of this cluster are significantly younger than the rest of the population and have more chlamydia and syphilis infections," the article said.


That is not to say that heterosexuals do not also face the risk of contracting HIV; overall, just under half of the new cases of HIV in Britain were gay men, but straights were also getting infected. One main difference was that while gays seemed to be getting infected without traveling to other countries, heterosexuals--who were picking up a different strain of the virus--seemed to be contracting the virus while abroad, the article said.


"Gay men are still the most at risk of HIV infection in the UK," said Nick Partridge, the head of British AIDS charity the Terrence Higgins Trust. "We also know that more than a quarter of people with HIV in the UK are currently undiagnosed, and they’re far more likely to pass the virus on than those who know they have it."


The Belgian study, which looked at HIV trends in Britain and Europe, was carried out by researchers at Ghent University. But health experts in the United States also cautioned that HIV remains a serious health threat here.


In a Sept. 3 release from New York-based Gay Men’s Health Crisis (GMHC), Dr. Marjorie Hill, the group’s CEO, warned, "A new wave of HIV infections is about to hit New York and we had all better get ready for it," and went on to echo that one major concern is the number of people living with HIV who have not gotten tested, and so don’t know that they have it.


However, Dr. Hill continued, a new state law requiring routine HIV testing is likely to lead to a sharp uptick in reported new cases. "Previously, patients were required to sign a separate written consent form in order to get tested for HIV," explained Dr. Hill. "Now, if you agree to a quick swab test, you will only have to give oral consent.


"When undergoing routine medical procedures or check-ups, you will be offered a standard HIV blood test to sign off on along with the battery of tests that most patients receive. Once you give your consent, it stays in effect for all your future blood tests," Hill added, going on to cite the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as projecting an estimate that says "100,000 people in New York City alone are currently living with HIV infection, but more than 25,000 of them do not know it."


Added Hill, "Most of these unknowing carriers of HIV feel and look healthy and are, in most respects. But they are missing out on treatments that could prevent them from progressing to AIDS. Plus, they are in danger of transmitting the virus to others, continuing to fuel the epidemic."


One crucial benefit of testing is that the sooner HIV+ individuals know their status, the sooner they can begin taking medication to keep the virus in check. Though there is no cure for HIV, modern treatment regimens can help many HIV+ people keep their viral loads down to undetectable levels, meaning that they have a better chance at a normal life span. But early treatment is the key, a Chicago specialist in HIV/AIDS, Dr. James Sullivan (http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=&sc3=&id=109750), said recently

[natina]

The case gained worldwide attention shortly after it developed, due to Smith claiming that a black man stole her car and kidnapped her sons (http://crime.about.com/od/murder/a/susan_smith.htm)

Susan Smith
Born September 26, 1971 (1971-09-26) (age 38)
Union, South Carolina
Conviction(s) Two counts of murder
Penalty Life
Status Incarcerated at Leath Correctional Institution
Spouse David Smith (March 15, 1991 - May 1995)[1]
Parents Linda and Harry Vaughan

Susan Leigh Vaughan Smith (born September 26, 1971) is an American woman sentenced to life in prison for murdering her children. Born in Union, South Carolina, and a former student of the University of South Carolina Union, she was convicted on July 22, 1995 of murdering her two sons, 3-year-old Michael Daniel Smith, born October 10, 1991, and 14-month-old Alexander Tyler Smith, born August 5, 1993.[2] The case gained worldwide attention shortly after it developed, due to Smith claiming that a black man stole her car and kidnapped her sons. Smith later claimed that she suffered from mental health issues that impaired her judgment.

According to the South Carolina Department of Corrections, Smith will be eligible for parole on November 4, 2024, after serving a minimum of thirty years. She is currently incarcerated at South Carolina's Leath Correctional Institution, near Greenwood.[3]

Susan Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Flag_of_South_Carolina.svg" class="image"><img alt="Flag of South Carolina.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Flag_of_South_Carolina.svg/42px-Flag_of_South_Carolina.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/69/Flag_of_South_Carolina.svg/42px-Flag_of_South_Carolina.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-23-susan-smith_x.htm/


http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2004/10/23/susan-smith-photo.jpg

[natina]

racism relates to politics and religion,like law and order does




remember it was not that long ago that another lady made up a story saying the black person did it.

it made national news and caused emotions to run high.


neocon/Republicans feel that blacks are prone to violence and these false accusations would of Lent

credibility to there feelings

White Mom Who Falsely Accused Black Men Of Kidnapping Her Is Found
From msnbc.com

Prosecutors believe that the Pennsylvania woman who was found with her daughter at Disney World after claiming they were abducted by two black men may have been taking actions due to domestic tensions with her second husband.

“They’re still looking into the motive behind this. We believe it may have to do with some domestic problems she may have been having with her husband,” Bucks County (Pa.) district attorney Michelle Henry told TODAY’s Natalie Morales Thursday. Henry said the couple may also have been facing financial problems.

Henry said that Bonnie Sweeten, 38, of Feasterville, will be charged with false reports and identity theft, both misdemeanors, and would be extradited from Florida to face the charges. Her 9-year-old daughter, Julia Rakoczy, was being interviewed by investigators and was to return home with her father and Sweeten’s ex-husband, Anthony Rakoczy.


http://newsone.com/nation/news-one-staff/white-mom-falsely-accuses-black-men-of-kidnapping-is-found-at-disney-world/




http://cdn.newsone.com/files/2009/05/fake-abduction.jpg (http://newsone.com/nation/news-one-staff/white-mom-falsely-accuses-black-men-of-kidnapping-is-found-at-disney-world/)

[natina]

WHITE WOMEN ARE
THE New Faces of HIV/AIDS/The women Philippe infected say they weren't especially worried about HIV/AIDS
http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1


New Faces of HIV/AIDS
Oprah.com When women end long marriages and rejoin the dating world, there's a lot to worry about. Will it be hard to meet someone? Will dating be the same as it was years ago? When should I introduce a partner to my children? But the one factor many middle-aged women don't necessarily think about is the one that can be the most life-altering: sexually transmitted diseases.


These five women sharing the Oprah Show stage have a lot in common. They live in suburban America. They are mothers with successful careers. They also, unknowingly, shared a partner. Each woman, some of whom are in disguise, dated and slept with Philippe Padieu, a man they describe as handsome and charismatic. Unfortunately, he turned out to be very different from the man he claimed to be.


Diane, a 58-year-old martial arts teacher, was the first to meet Philippe. She had been married for 18 years and says when she reentered the dating world, it had changed dramatically. "It was very difficult to meet people, and I really don't do bars. My friends suggested that I use an online dating service," she says. "When I first started dating Philippe, I was head over heels. He was very charming. He made me feel like the only woman on the face of the earth."


Diane and Philippe quickly became serious and decided to move in together. When Philippe lost his job, Diane hired him as an instructor at her martial arts studio and started paying for most of his bills, including his cell phone and medical bills.


Diane says Philippe's money problems put a strain on their relationship. Eventually, he started pulling away so much that Diane suspected him of cheating. As it turned out, she was right. "I stopped by the [martial arts] school and I noticed that the private lesson room door was closed. He opened the door and he blocked the doorway, and that's when I slammed the door open and she was behind the door," Diane says. The last straw, she says, was catching him in a lie about being staying home sick. "Because I was paying for his cell phone, I checked his voice mail messages. There were not one but two voice mail messages from two different women, and I knew."

http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1

[natina]

German pop star Nadja Benaissa Sex Confession Of Spreading HIV



Pop Star Nadja Benaissa has confessed to keeping her HIV status a secret to sexual partners. Benaissa broke down in tears at a Darmstadt, Germany courtroom apologizing for her sex acts.

Benaissa, 28, denied trying to infect anyone with the virus that causes AIDS. Benaissa recently went to trail due to an ex-lover who contracted the virus allegedly from her.

Benaissa faces 6 months to 10 years in prison.


Once a member of the famous female pop group No Angels, has been charged with causing bodily harm or attempting to cause bodily harm. Her verdict will be on August 26.

Benaissa told the court that she found out she was HIV positive in 1999 when she was 16-years old and 6 months pregnant. Her lawyers claimed that doctors told her the chance of giving someone else the disease was "practically zero."

Benaissa reportedly had unprotected sex on five occasions between 2000 and 2004 with three men. She did not tell them that she had HIV reportedly. The man who brought Benaissa to court has not been named. He did not know that Benaissa was HIV positive until his aunt told him later on. He is HIV positive. (c) tPC


http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Entertainment/Pop-star-HIV-sex-confession.aspx?cp-searchtext=Pop%20star%20HIV%20sex%20confession

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212317802.shtml

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/nadja-benaissa-4-17-09-3.jpg

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/nadja-benaissa-4-17-09-8.jpg

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/nadja-benaissa-4-17-09-6.jpg

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/hiv_never_judge_a_book_by_its_cover.htm

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/nadja-benaissa-4-17-09-8.jpg

[natina]

New Faces of HIV/AIDS



http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1
http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1


Oprah.com | October 20, 2009

http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-1-290x218.jpg
When women end long marriages and rejoin the dating world, there's a lot to worry about. Will it be hard to meet someone? Will dating be the same as it was years ago? When should I introduce a partner to my children? But the one factor many middle-aged women don't necessarily think about is the one that can be the most life-altering: sexually transmitted diseases.

These five women sharing the Oprah Show stage have a lot in common. They live in suburban America. They are mothers with successful careers. They also, unknowingly, shared a partner. Each woman, some of whom are in disguise, dated and slept with Philippe Padieu, a man they describe as handsome and charismatic. Unfortunately, he turned out to be very different from the man he claimed to be.


http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-2-290x218.jpg
Diane, a 58-year-old martial arts teacher, was the first to meet Philippe. She had been married for 18 years and says when she reentered the dating world, it had changed dramatically. "It was very difficult to meet people, and I really don't do bars. My friends suggested that I use an online dating service," she says. "When I first started dating Philippe, I was head over heels. He was very charming. He made me feel like the only woman on the face of the earth."

Diane and Philippe quickly became serious and decided to move in together. When Philippe lost his job, Diane hired him as an instructor at her martial arts studio and started paying for most of his bills, including his cell phone and medical bills.

Diane says Philippe's money problems put a strain on their relationship. Eventually, he started pulling away so much that Diane suspected him of cheating. As it turned out, she was right. "I stopped by the [martial arts] school and I noticed that the private lesson room door was closed. He opened the door and he blocked the doorway, and that's when I slammed the door open and she was behind the door," Diane says. The last straw, she says, was catching him in a lie about being staying home sick. "Because I was paying for his cell phone, I checked his voice mail messages. There were not one but two voice mail messages from two different women, and I knew."


http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-3-290x218.jpg
Diane broke up with Philippe when she discovered he was cheating. A few days later, she went to the gynecologist for a routine exam. Her doctor called within days to say that her pap smear showed precancerous cells due to a sexually transmitted disease. Knowing that he had cheated, Diane decided to let the other women know that they too might have an STD. As she went back through his phone records, Diane realized the cheating had been worse than she thought. "He was dating nine other women at the time he was dating me," she says.

One of the women Diane called was Susan. "We compared notes, and some of the time that she'd been seeing him, I had been seeing him," Susan says. "Then she said, 'I have an STD, and I am certain that Philippe gave this to me.'"

After talking to Diane, Susan went to her doctor and got news even worse than she had feared. "I received a phone call after my testing from my doctor and she said, 'You have HIV,'" Susan says.

The next time Diane and Susan spoke, Susan broke the news. "I got a test two days later," Diane says. "My ob-gyn called me and said, 'You're HIV positive.'"


http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-4-290x218.jpg
Given the severity of the news, Susan and Diane decided they had to get ahold of the women Philippe had dated and stop him from infecting others. They filed a police report and launched their own full-scale investigation, starting with Philippe's cell phone records. "We contacted somewhere between 23 and 26 women," Diane says.

One of the women Diane found was Megan, who lived across the street from Philippe and dated him for more than two years. She says she had already suspected him of cheating and broken up with him by the time she got the phone call.

Megan learned she was also infected with HIV and joined the crusade to stop Philippe. "I mainly used the window to watch cars coming in and out and to watch what was going on at Philippe's house or which women were coming in and out," she says. Megan says she stopped women who were leaving Philippe's house to warn them that their lives could be at risk.

Together, the three women took down license plates and followed Philippe for at least six months.



http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-5-290x218.jpg
After Susan and Diane filed the police report, the health department served Philippe with a cease and desist order demanding that he stop having unprotected sex. Shortly afterward, Diane remembered a day in 2005 that would serve as the key piece of evidence against her ex-boyfriend.

Diane had driven Philippe to the doctor because he hadn't been feeling well, she says. After he left the doctor's office, he told her all the tests he took—including one for HIV/AIDS—were negative. Once the report was filed against Philippe, his medical records confirmed that he knew he was HIV positive at that 2005 appointment, at the same time as he was having unprotected sex with unsuspecting women. That key piece of evidence led to his arrest.

Police charged Philippe with six counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The weapon was his bodily fluid. Ten women, all HIV positive, were willing to testify against Philippe in open court. For the first time in Texas history, prosecutors hired a DNA expert to conduct genetic testing to determine the source of the common strain of HIV. It became clear that one sample was the source of most if not all of the women's diseases. On May 29, 2009, Philippe was sentenced to 45 years in prison. He will be eligible for parole in 22 years, when he is 76 years old.


http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-6-290x218.jpg
It's hard to imagine how one man could trick nine women at once, but Sofia, one of the women Philippe infected, says she never imagined he was cheating. Like Diane, Sofia had just gotten out of a long marriage and was new to the dating scene. "He was so handsome, so gentlemanly. He always opened the doors for you. He wrote notes to me always in Spanish and said, 'Te quiero mi amor,'" she says.

"He was very slippery, though," Susan says."I didn't suspect him because he worked so hard. That's the impression that I got. He was always busy working."

Diane says Philippe was able to juggle so many women because he had a very strategic plan for fooling each of them. "He had us all lined out," she says. "[One woman got] Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. Then he had his Tuesday, Thursday. And then he had somebody on Friday night," she says. He even called everybody sweetie so as not to get any names mixed up.


http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090923/20090923-tows-sex-victims-7-290x218.jpg
The women say Philippe was also strategic in the women he chose to date. They all agree he manipulated women who were fairly new to dating and just out of long relationships. "He preyed on the vulnerability," Diane says. "I think everybody kind of felt missing a relationship. We wanted to get back into that solidarity of having a significant other."

That desire to have a partner may have played into their desire to trust him, they say. Both Diane and Tricia, another victim, say they discussed using condoms, but Philippe convinced them it wasn't necessary. "He said: 'No, I'm very wholesome. I'm clean. I'm a martial arts instructor. I live my life so right, and we're adults. This is not necessary,'" Tricia says. "I had not been in the dating scene for many years and made some poor choices there that I wish I could turn around."

Diane says she confronted Philippe about using protection early in the relationship. "I said: 'I'm not seeing anybody else. Are you seeing anybody else?' And he kind of mumbled something. And I said, 'If you're seeing somebody else, that's okay, but we're going to start using condoms.' And then that's when he said, 'No, no, I'm not seeing anybody else.'"




http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1
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http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1
http://www.oprah.com/health/New-Faces-of-HIV-and-AIDS/print/1

[natina]

An HIV-positive Air Force sergeant failed to disclose his medical condition before engaging in sexual intercourse

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/175xUnlimited/photos/gutierrez2.jpg



An HIV-positive Air Force sergeant failed to disclose his medical condition before engaging in sexual activity with a “multitude” of partners he met at “swinger” parties and through adult web sites, according to a military investigation, The Smoking Gun has learned.

The criminal probe of Sgt. David Gutierrez, a 20-year military veteran, began last month when the Air Force Office of Special Investigations received information that he had “engaged in numerous, unprotected sexual acts…over the course of three years.” According to court records, investigators charge that, due to Gutierrez’s HIV status, these encounters amounted to “aggravated assault against several men and women in and around the Wichita, Kansas area.”

The 43-year-old Gutierrez, stationed at McConnell Air Force Base in Wichita, was “apprehended” on August 9 for violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. At the time, a “search of his person and vehicle was conducted pursuant to a search authority granted by a military magistrate,” records show. Two subsequent searches--conducted at the Wichita home Gutierrez shares with his wife Gina--targeted his computers and other belongings in a bid to “identify potential witnesses and victims.”

Gutierrez’s wife told investigators that he became infected with HIV in 2007 while stationed in Italy. After learning of the diagnosis, she claimed, Gutierrez “contacted his sexual partners in Italy to report possible exposure to the virus,” according to an affidavit sworn by Air Force criminal investigator Derrell Freeman (that document is excerpted here).

However, after being reassigned to McConnell in 2008, “Gutierrez began having unprotected sex with numerous partners,” Gina Gutierrez told Air Force investigators. She said that her husband used adult networking web sites to arrange “sexual encounters with both male and female partners,” and “bragged” to her “about his numerous sexual exploits in the Wichita area and commented he never informed the other parties of being HIV positive.” Online profiles indicate that Gutierrez’s wife has participated with him in swinging activity, both in Kansas and Italy.

Gutierrez, pictured at left, did not respond to an interview request sent to his Facebook page, and a cell phone number listed for him in the Freeman affidavit is no longer in service.

In his affidavit, Freeman disclosed having interviewed two women who reported having unprotected sex with Gutierrez after meeting him through adult web sites. Both women--whose names TSG has redacted from an excerpt of Freeman’s affidavit--told the Air Force investigator that Gutierrez never disclosed his HIV status. The names of both women appear among Gutierrez’s list of Facebook friends.

One woman told of first meeting Gutierrez in person last summer at a swinger party (she first connected with him through adultfriendfinder.com). The alleged victim, a 44-year-old Kansas woman with two sons in the military, said she performed oral sex on Gutierrez at that initial gathering, as well as at subsequent swinger parties over the following months. She added that he took photos and videos “every time these sexual encounters took place.”

The second woman, 44, told Freeman that she initially met Gutierrez in late-2009 via clubforeplay.com. During the Thanksgiving holiday she “engaged in unprotected oral sex and vaginal intercourse” with Gutierrez at his Wichita home. “At no time did D. Gutierrez disclose his positive HIV status” to the woman, Freeman reported.

In a late-October posting on adultfriendfinder.com, Gutierrez wrote that, “We are looking at hosting a Thanksgiving dinner for all (singles man/woman, cpls) that do not have family here in Wichita.” He added, “Any playing is not expected, but more than welcome.”

According to Freeman’s affidavit, Gutierrez’s online handles include “luv4u269me3” and “wetnwild4u2692.” Additionally, Air Force computer crime analysts determined that Gutierrez “was active on multiple adult web sites used to facilitate meetings between like-minded, swinging couples and singles,” and was “actively seeking sexual partners in the Wichita, KS area…At no time did [he] identify himself as being HIV positive.” In one online profile, Freeman added, Gutierrez reported attending 21 Wichita-area swinger events during the first six months of 2010.

Gutierrez’s online profiles include explicit photographs (as seen above) and details about his sexual exploits and preferences (“Honesty” is a key factor when looking for a sexual partner, he claimed in a profile on eroticsouls.com).

In a June 2007 posting on adultfriendfinder.com, Gutierrez conducted a poll on whether respondents were willing to “play” with partners infected with herpes simplex virus (HSV) or HIV. In a follow-up post, he asked, “Why are people scared of the HIV virus, don’t you wear condoms to protect yourself from HSV?” He added, “The research I have done raises several questions on weather or not HIV is even related to AIDs.”

Records show that investigators searching Gutierrez’s home seized his pornography collection, condoms, and a wide variety of vibrators and sex toys. They also took a “blood chemistry report” addressed to Gutierrez from the University of Kansas School of Medicine, and two manila envelopes containing a total of 146 pages of “HIV related research articles.” (7 pages)


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/usaf-hiv-probe?page=6

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/investigation/air-force-swinger-hiv-probe


http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

[natina]

Study puts HIV rate among gay men at 1 in 5


http://tour.acmoviepass.com/gay/images/movie-preview/the-gay-train-rises-to-attention_aHR0cDovL2JldGEuYWNtb3ZpZXBhc3MuY29tL3N5 c3RlbS9pbWFnZXNfY2xpcC8zMDUxXzMxMC5qcGc=.jpg


One in five gay men in the United States has HIV, and almost half of those who carry the virus are unaware that they are infected, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study.
The study tested more than 8,000 men in 21 cities in 2008, making it the most comprehensive such research by the CDC. It found that young, sexually active gay men and those in minority groups are least likely to know their health status, even as infection rates are climbing among men who have sex with men, while the rates of other at-risk groups - heterosexuals and intravenous drug users - are falling.
The findings were released Thursday, ahead of National Gay Men's HIV Awareness Day on Monday.
A CDC official called for a sharper focus on testing. "This study's message is clear: HIV exacts a devastating toll on men who have sex with men in America's major cities, and yet far too many of those who are infected don't know it," said Kevin Fenton, director of the agency's National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD and TB Prevention

Cities in the study include Baltimore, where the prevalence rate among men who have sex with men was highest at 38 percent, and Atlanta, where it was lowest at 6 percent.
In the District, where the general HIV/AIDS prevalence rate is about 4 percent, more than 16,000 adults, one of the highest numbers in the nation, has the virus, according to the city Department of Health. According to the CDC study, the District had a 14 percent prevalence rate among men who have sex with men.
A CDC spokeswoman said the recent study's findings were similar to those of a National Health Behavioral Study conducted between June 2004 and April 2005, when one in four gay men tested positive for the virus. But the percentage of minorities who tested positive changed dramatically in the three years since the previous study.
Back then, 46 percent of gay black men tested positive in the smaller study, compared with 40 percent in the larger 2008 study. Black gay men outpaced white and Hispanic men in both studies.
In the earlier study, Hispanics represented 18 percent of the infected compared with 23 percent in the most recent study. White men comprised 21 percent of the infected in 2004-05 and 20 percent in the more recent study.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html


http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf




http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuCs0Sesb31VvnA1zf1MjipDNreEn1P 74sIWeDjEzoM-LAeNs26Q

[Jackal]

WTF is this thread?

[muhmuh]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/20000/3000/600/23637/23637.strip.gif

[natina]

http://888webtoday.com/articles/images/Gay%20Agenda.jpg











Regardless of Intentions, when Absolute Truths are Eliminated, Slope to Abyss gets Slippery

Can you imagine America's founding Fathers carrying on a debate about whether gay marriage should be permitted under the Constitution they were crafting? The answer is that it likely never crossed their minds. They saw things as black and white – as absolute.

The reason the Founding Fathers didn't debate the issue of homosexual marriage was because it didn't make sense; it flew in the face of the moral standards they set for themselves.

Author Ted Shoebat believes there are far too many people in power right now who are all too eager to rid this nation of those moral standards. He points to the recent court decision in California where a judge struck down the will of the people, the vast majority of whom wanted marriage defined as between one man and one woman – as absolute.

Shoebat points to the newest Supreme Court Justice, Elena Kagan as well. When discussing what our founders viewed as an absolute right to free speech, Kagan expressed a belief that “societal costs” must be factored in to free speech issues, thereby rendering the right something other than absolute – as relative. Did Kagan have the homosexual agenda in mind as she spoke those words?

History has shown that there are many ways to take a society toward socialism. Is the issue of gay marriage in particular and the gay agenda in general one of the vehicles those on the left would like to use to get us there? Schedule an interview with Ted Shoebat to get a fascinating perspective.

THE WAR ON PROPOSITION 8 PORTENDS SOCIALISM
TED SHOEBAT

"There are no moral absolutes," the foolish told the wise.
"Are you absolutely sure?" replied the wise.

Marriage being only "between a man and a woman" is an absolute. It can never be between a man and a horse or a tree, or between the sun and the moon, a mare and a stallion, chicken and rooster or rooster with rooster.

But the attack on Proposition 8 has nothing to do with the left's love for homosexuals and everything to do with eroding the absolutes set in our Constitution. Altering the U.S Constitution is the only way for socialism to prevail in the U.S. Socialists like Elena Kagan plays with the First amendment, attacking that moral absolute and said to redefine it as depending "upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs."

These "societal costs", spell socialism and nothing more. History tells us that by altering "absolutes" the Left replaced individualism (which works) with collectivism (which doesn't).

Perhaps a little history can help us understand the likes of Kagan and Judge Vaughn Walker overturning Prop 8. Collectivism stems from positivism--founded by French philosopher Auguste Comte (19th century).

Positivism says that human experience is the supreme criterion of human knowledge, denies the existence of a personal God and takes humanity, "the great being", as the object of its veneration in order to elevate man over God. Comte's positivism was derived from Henri de Saint-Simon, a utopian ideologue who was the influence to none other then Karl Marx's socialism.

In his Essay on the Science of Man (1813) Saint-Simon explained that every field of knowledge moved successively from a conjectural to a "positive" stage, and that the sciences reached this stage in a definite order, Physiology had now moved into a positive stage, just as astrology, and alchemy had previously given way to astronomy and chemistry. Now the science of man must move towards the positive stage and completely reorganize all human institutions.1

Aguste Comte perpetuated the search for a science of society through a three-stage theory of progress, which he derived from Saint-Simon in 1822. Thus the idea that truth is not absolute but historical became popularized during the nineteenth-century and is realized not in "individual thought" but in "social action" collectively.

It was Saint-Simon's followers in the 1830s that first gave widespread use not only to the word "socialism," but also—"socialize," "socialization," and socializing the interments of labor. 2 Comte's influence by Saint-Simon explains why he rejected divine human rights: "Social positivism only accepts duties, for all and towards all...Any human right is therefore as absurd and immoral. Since there are no divine rights anymore, this concept must therefore disappear completely..." 3

Later, positivism would now submerge itself with the coming of Darwinian evolution. And since mankind evolves, morality must also evolve with it, and instead of all men are created equal we have Charles's Darwin's doctrine: "Any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well developed...as in man."

It was evolutionist Herbert Spencer who first coined the phrase "Survival of the fittest" that intended to link darwinism and positivism together. Spencer believed that because human nature can improve and change, then, scientific‚ including moral and political views must change with it, that ethics "have to be considered as parts of the phenomena of life at large. We have to deal with man as a product of evolution, with society as a product of evolution, and with moral phenomena as products of evolution." 4

Thus, Spencer believed in the redefining of nations' constitutions: "All evil results from the non-adaptation of constitution to conditions. This is true of everything that lives."5

The final point in evolution according to Spencer was to see a progression to "perfect man in the perfect society." Positivism quickly sprung on its way to America, a land whose constitution is disdained and in need of an altercation. Under positivism, judges were to guide both the evolution of law and the Constitution. By these, the views of the Founding Fathers are hampering the progressing evolution of society.

But if darwinian evolution is a science as claimed, why does it always have to leap onto ethics and morality?

What we are dealing with is noting new. President Woodrow Wilson said that Evolution is "not theory, but fact" that "Living political constitutions must be Darwinian in structure and in practice." 6 Wilson even mocked individual rights: "a lot of nonsense has been talked about the inalienable rights of the individual". 7

Using positivism is nothing new and like Kagan, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. who was appointed to the Supreme Court in 1902 argued extensively that decisions should not be based upon absolute laws but the "felt necessities of the time" and "prevalent moral and political theories" instead of natural law and its absolute standards. Holmes claimed that: "The justification of a law for us cannot be found in the fact that our fathers always have followed it. It must be found in some help which the law brings toward reaching a social end."

It is no longer by the people and for the people, but by the whims of appointed judges. Charles Evans Hughes, the Supreme Court Chief Justice from 1930 to 1941, held a similar view: "We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is." US District Court Chief Judge Vaughn R. Walker's followed suit and overturned Prop 8, by this negating the law in the name of the law. With a stroke of a pen one judge ruled over votes which men bled and died for. Thus is tyranny.

What Elena Kagan is saying reflects the philosophy of the Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall who considered the Constitution and the Founding Fathers as "defective" and unwise. Kagan and her ilk bring nothing new; there are no new tricks under the sun. Americans need to wake up. Believing in absolutes or denying them matters nothing to absolutes, since no matter what choices Americans make, they must still choose between an absolute truth and an absolute lie. We either choose ethics according to God or ethics according to man. We can choose failed Socialism or successful Capitalism.

We can choose Universalism or Nationalism. Even if we do not make a choice at all, we would still have made a choice not to make a choice. I made my choices; I say "No" to the United Nations and yes to the United States with its Constitution set by the founding fathers over all other constitutions.

Indeed, if history repeats itself, it does so only on the fools. There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 14:12)





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[onmyknees]

We start with Socialism, veer off into education, then to HIV ? Is there some correlation ?

[yodajazz]

What would I do on SSI ??

First....raise the age to 68. Second means test it. If you are making over 100K in other retirement income, yes we made a contract with you, but sorry to say we're breaking it. Third...make new workers entering the job market understand that they'd better not count on SSI for the majority of thier retirement income. Fourth...allow those who want to invest a percentage of thier SSI contributions in certain targeted securities ( S&P 500 stocks muny bonds, etc) Recall when that was proposed the demagogues made sure it never saw the light of day. Remember....it's not thier money...it's yours. Fifth....finally get serious about throwing all the hacks and leaches off the SSI disability rolls.

1. The SS retirement has already been raised to 67 for full benefits. So one more year added is not that big of deal to me. So I have no objections to that.
2. SS benefits have traditionally connected to income, i.e. making more money will reduce benefits. That's why many on SS, who had jobs, like being paid, under the table. I thought they recently raised the amounts, but a modest cap would be ok with me.
3. I think the majority of people already understand that SS is a limited amount. That's why they have 401K plans, and make the contributions pre-tax
4. Is the only point I disagree, because they already have 401K for this. B. the fact that people can borrow from these accounts defeats the purpose. It is more than likely, over many years a person will have a reason, to dip into or cash out of these, voluntary accounts. I have cashed out of two myself. C. 2008 D. The market as a strictly profit venture does not care about the overall economy. I believe the government job creation policies will promote jobs that have people paying into the SS system. Wall Street's record bonuses this past year were due partially to foriegn investment. So they are sending money out of the country, not creating jobs. And what happens, if a country with significant amount of retirement investments decides to nationalize assests? And by the way, when you used the word "demagogues", didn't you mean to use the word,"visionaries"?
5. Sure there are some people abusing the system. But I predict, an in-depth study will show there will be more social costs in kicking a large amount of people off. Big cuts coming directly out of the community economy, will cause even more reduction consumer spending. As I have stated elsewhere, I believe that SS money circulates on a wider circulation, than high tech defense items, for example.
Part of my philosophy comes from the belief that the wealthy have no real reason to create jobs, when they can make money things like futures trading, basically changing money and aquiring world based assets.

[Ben]

WTF is this thread?

Good question -- ha ha! :)

[Ben]

Albert Einstein's thoughts on Socialism:

http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism

[robertlouis]

OP: Natina.

Enuff said, really.

[Jamie French]

I wish socialism would stop taking it's damned time already. I'm getting impatient and tickets to Europe are just too damned 'spensive to go get it elsewhere. Old angry white people on the news promised me no less than all out communism back in '08. I guess Obama can't be trusted to get anything done.

[Rusty Eldora]

Albert Einstein's thoughts on Socialism:

http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism

Thanks.

If we have real individual liberty, we just need to convince others that your idea is better, small steps that can be made. If we have the state in control, we need to convince a deaf government to change rules, laws, and dictates. Can that ever be changed?

The religious family shouldn't be able to restrict my lifestyle as long as I am not intruding on theirs (& visa versa)

[robertlouis]

I wish socialism would stop taking it's damned time already. I'm getting impatient and tickets to Europe are just too damned 'spensive to go get it elsewhere. Old angry white people on the news promised me no less than all out communism back in '08. I guess Obama can't be trusted to get anything done.



LMAO. Post of the week, the year, the decade. :Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown:

[danthepoetman]

I wish socialism would stop taking it's damned time already. I'm getting impatient and tickets to Europe are just too damned 'spensive to go get it elsewhere. Old angry white people on the news promised me no less than all out communism back in '08. I guess Obama can't be trusted to get anything done.
LOL!!
Touché, Jamie!

Then again, you know, there is socialism in America. You know which one, don't you?

[nysprod]

I was a big Obama supporter in both elections, a position I have come to regret after seeing exactly how obamacare is being implemented.

The Affordable Health Care Act is the socialist dream of income redistribution incarnate, with the middle class doing the paying and the ever widening definition of poor finding themselves in a better financial position courtesy of government legislation.

[Jamie French]

So?

Could be worse. Could be living anywhere else on the planet.

Don't like 'Merca?

Leave.

(Wow, that's now a thing folks like me get to say... Thanks Obama!)

(Also, if you do leave... aim for the Nordic countries. Highest happiness indexes on Earth. Highest taxes as well. Nevermind. You'd hate it.)


I was a big Obama supporter in both elections, a position I have come to regret after seeing exactly how obamacare is being implemented.

The Affordable Health Care Act is the socialist dream of income redistribution incarnate, with the middle class doing the paying and the ever widening definition of poor finding themselves in a better financial position courtesy of government legislation.

[GroobySteven]

Could be worse. Could be living anywhere else on the planet.


There are a lot of options that are far, far from worse.

[dderek123]

Go Canada!!!

[dderek123]

I wish socialism would stop taking it's damned time already. I'm getting impatient and tickets to Europe are just too damned 'spensive to go get it elsewhere. Old angry white people on the news promised me no less than all out communism back in '08. I guess Obama can't be trusted to get anything done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Jamie French]

(shhhh... he doesn't know that, I like to see complainers stay miserable so keep quiet and don't give 'em any ideas.)


There are a lot of options that are far, far from worse.

[robertlouis]

I was a big Obama supporter in both elections, a position I have come to regret after seeing exactly how obamacare is being implemented.

The Affordable Health Care Act is the socialist dream of income redistribution incarnate, with the middle class doing the paying and the ever widening definition of poor finding themselves in a better financial position courtesy of government legislation.


Fucking up and socialism aren't necessarily the same thing. That would have made Dubya one hell of a socialist. :whistle:

[Ben]

LOL!!
Touché, Jamie!

Then again, you know, there is socialism in America. You know which one, don't you?

Nice post Dan -- :)
And -- :)

[Ben]

Russell Means, the late actor, talks about corporate socialism:

Corporate Socialism.avi - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTxkrFdLiQ)

[danthepoetman]

Nice post Dan -- :)
And -- :)

:) "Corporate socialism"! I love the expression, Ben. And really accurate!

[BBaggins06]

We start with Socialism, veer off into education, then to HIV ? Is there some correlation ?

Mental illness?

[danthepoetman]

You must have known Onmyknees, BBaggins. He was very much to the right, politically. Ridiculously conservative, with outragous opinions, sometimes.

[Ben]

:) "Corporate socialism"! I love the expression, Ben. And really accurate!

It's never discussed. And why would it be. I mean, the mainstream media are owned by corporations.
Socialism is bad -- for people. Not for corporations &/or the corporate class.
Dr. Noam Chomsky points out that the term socialism has been rendered pretty much meaningless.
I mean, what is, say, a Marxist? A lot of the mainstream press bandy about that word without clearly defining it.
Or, well, capitalism. What is actual capitalism?
What did Adam Smith actually say about capitalism? Or the actual corporation? Or markets?
Well, Smith favored free markets. On the idea that perfect liberty will lead to perfect equality. That's why he favored markets.
And Adam Smith did favor corporations. Of 1. Yep! 1 single person. Whereby they are the worker, owner and manager. I mean, we've veered so far from what Adam Smith actually envisioned.

Chomsky on Socialism - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ)