How are transsexuals viewed by the gay community

[BellaBellucci]

As I said in another thread, my experience with many gay men is that they hold animosity towards us. They think we're trying to be something that we're not, and that presumably we attract their men. Their leadership sees us as the redheaded stepchildren of the so-called LGBT movement and the first sacrifice to be made in attempts for political progress.

This DOES NOT mean I harbor ill will towards gays, simply that it's what I've noticed and I'd like to hear what others think.

Discuss.

~BB~

[tsparisangelline]

Gays seem to think we are the exact same as them except we are mentally unstable.

[MrsKellyPierce]

A lot of gay men either want to dress up as Barbies or hate us because we can get cock they can't. lol

[Kevin Dong]

I've met tgirls that only have gay guys as friends. It is not uncommon in Toronto. But I have also heard from tgirls sharing your experience. So I guess it goes both ways.

[tsparisangelline]

I've met tgirls that only have gay guys as friends. It is not uncommon in Toronto. But I have also heard from tgirls sharing your experience. So I guess it goes both ways.

Trust me being friends with them doesn't change their perspective.

[toopretty]

I remember watching an episode of Tyra (I think). And a smokin hot TS was assigned some kind of role within the gay community. And I was just thinking "why is she on the show? Shes not even in the gay community"

[fred41]

I'm not really qualified to answer. I'm straight as an arrow...mui macho...all man...100% all american beef...that's right how 'bout them Bears?

Actually I think the gay world kind of mirrors the straight world in certain aspects of how they regard transsexuals. Some accept... some really don't.

[south ov da border]

From what I've seen they gays hate on the Trans community...

[Clone 0101]

From what I've seen they gays hate on the Trans community...

I have to agree with you

[Ryz]

I honestly didn't think gays would be so judgmental. They seem to get mad when you turn them down; they insist that transsexuals are just confused men who pretend they're something their not and that its the same thing as being with a man. They really look down on Tgirls

[FreddieGomez]

i honestly dont get involved in that mess

[amberskyi]

i honestly dont get involved in that mess
ditto

[saintpatrick]

What do gay men think of M2F transexuals? I don't know. Do know what they thought of me: "Silly guy, won't admit he's really gay; so he goes for drag queens."

I did learn that if you are in a club with a with a drag show that includes some really good looking full time girls and you can be cool about sloughing off gay men that that hit on you; the odds are good.

[MrsKellyPierce]

^^^ Thats true...most gay men think if you will hook up with a transsexual, you will hook up with a man.

[peggygee]

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different entities.

It is my opinion that the "T" was tacked on to the LGB as an after-thought, to bolster their ranks.

The LGB movement rarely has the interests of the transcommunity in mind when they act.

[drock]

I can't say exactly, but I have a few trans friends and they said that Gay men in general don't like them because for one they somewhat pull from the same pool of men except most gay men know deep down that the only kind of men they can get are other gay men or the DL dudes and trannys are able to pull the straight guys and the DL too so they harbor a lot of resentment towards them.

[innocentbychoice]

I'm a gay man and I have to say I like and understand transsexuals.

But not all of the gay community is like that. It's true, but I think it's due to ignorance of what transsexualism is. And that ignorance runs across the straight community as well, so it's not because we're gay, it's because sadly not many people are informed or care to be informed about transsexualism.

Plus, the majority of times, we are exposed to drag queens and crossdressers in the clubs and people confuse those type of people with trans people, and crossdressers and drag-queens are many times blamed in the gay community for the image outsiders have of us.

[BigDF]

As I said in another thread, my experience with many gay men is that they hold animosity towards us. They think we're trying to be something that we're not, and that presumably we attract their men. Their leadership sees us as the redheaded stepchildren of the so-called LGBT movement and the first sacrifice to be made in attempts for political progress.

This DOES NOT mean I harbor ill will towards gays, simply that it's what I've noticed and I'd like to hear what others think.

Discuss.

~BB~The only gay men I know really well are my brother and his mate and I've only discussed my attraction to TS with him. I don't detect any animosity towards TS from either of them, but I'll ask him about this and report back on his reply.

I looked at one gay publication, mainly because it's location intrigued me, as it was the last place I expected to see such a thing openly published. They had a section on TS but it was largely ignorant of the subject and filled with the usual assumptions. It also seems to lump TS and CD together, although the author of the article did point out that he was researching the issue. I got the impression that his sources were mainly CD.

I think you are probably right about the "LGBT" political organization as it seems to me that it pretty much started as the Gay and Lesbian movement. My brother came out to me in 1985(Just as my first wife was leaving me, he's a brilliant boy but lacks a sense of timing.) and that was when I first started paying attention to any of the politics around the issue. I'm not sure when it was amended to include Bisexuals nor could I tell you when they picked up Transgender(my word, that, I'm sure for them it's transsexual)but there's no doubt in my mind where their priorities lie.

There is also little doubt in my mind of the truth of what you're saying about the animosity and also the jealousy, caused by what someone said on here about "testosterone poisoning" (can't remember who posted that; too lazy to go look) which as men a lot of gays are infected with.

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the gay community is a sub culture of the larger mainstream community, just as we are. I'm not a sociologist, but my life experience has been that there are as many personality types in the sub cultures as there are in the mainstream so conflicts will continue to arise, especially with crossovers in conflict with their own sexuality.

On a personal note, Bella, while I've always found you quite attractive, since I've been on this board I've discovered that you are a brilliant person with a devilish sense of humor and it's a pleasure to read your stuff.:Bowdown:

[a994]

What do gay men think of M2F transexuals? I don't know. Do know what they thought of me: "Silly guy, won't admit he's really gay; so he goes for drag queens."


To these gay men I would reply "I prefer WOMEN (which I don't consider drag queens to be). Period." Now if they want to be jealous and act like they had their feelings hurt that's their problem.

The honest truth is, I only like women, some of whom have penises and some of whom were born with vaginas.

[Sparky Snakeden]

wow, really your summing up a whole sexuality, when did we stop all just being a human race and divided into sexual groups that we have to act a certain way and judge that we all must fall into the stereo type! these threads you come out with are stupid and just for your own attention, stop dumbing the world down to grouping people, no one person is the same to the next, if you think they are it's because your fake and a loser that never deals with people in real life! As a Gay Man my views on the tranny Community vary from one to another, that's why this thread is stupid! Maybe you should of Titled it what do all gay Men think of Bella Blaber mouth? I never speak for a group but if i did we would all say who the fuck are you to judge! The Human Race is a mysterious butch and if you think you got it all figured out you must a whole lot of problems!

[audifan]

Sparky, it's not a bad topic for discussion. It's not that controversial. Others have contributed their experiences and opinions without claiming to know all about what "the gay community" thinks. You could too, but please without the anti-Bella polemic that we've all seen a hundred times already. Thanks. :)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I have a lot of gay friends...many look at me as their barbie doll to dress up. They also like to see me trick guys and all that other bs.

Other's like hanging with me because I can fish out the 'straight' curious boys and they think that they will get some in the end. Which doesn't happen unless they are dragged out lol

and I have met gay men who just didn't like me because I was transsexual. I think it is right to compare them to the straight community. And yes many do compare DQ's and CD's to transsexuals and see no difference. Which is how men on here do the same thing.

However there are a lot of trans too that hate gay men and don't want to be associated with anything gay. They sometimes at the clubs come off acting better than and of course gay men pick up on this.

[BellaBellucci]

wow, really your summing up a whole sexuality, when did we stop all just being a human race and divided into sexual groups that we have to act a certain way and judge that we all must fall into the stereo type! these threads you come out with are stupid and just for your own attention, stop dumbing the world down to grouping people, no one person is the same to the next, if you think they are it's because your fake and a loser that never deals with people in real life! As a Gay Man my views on the tranny Community vary from one to another, that's why this thread is stupid! Maybe you should of Titled it what do all gay Men think of Bella Blaber mouth? I never speak for a group but if i did we would all say who the fuck are you to judge! The Human Race is a mysterious butch and if you think you got it all figured out you must a whole lot of problems!

That's not fair to say I don't deal with people in real life. You know damn well that I do. You're just mad that I haven't shown up at BMN for the lynching you tried and failed to perpetrate at Mary's. See? This is what happens what I try to lay off the clubs. When I go to everything, you want me to stay home, and when I stay home, you want me to go out so you have more opportunities to take shots at me in public.

Really, now. Who here thinks I'm dumb enough to fall for this obvious Grooby ploy? Raise your hands. :lol:

Besides, anyone who doesn't work with you thinks you're an obnoxious, idiotic, gay stereotype, so you're the last person here who should talk. :wiggle:


Sparky, it's not a bad topic for discussion. It's not that controversial. Others have contributed their experiences and opinions without claiming to know all about what "the gay community" thinks. You could too, but please without the anti-Bella polemic that we've all seen a hundred times already. Thanks. :)

Thank you. My sentiments exactly.

~BB~

[innocentbychoice]

I have a lot of gay friends...many look at me as their barbie doll to dress up. They also like to see me trick guys and all that other bs.

Other's like hanging with me because I can fish out the 'straight' curious boys and they think that they will get some in the end. Which doesn't happen unless they are dragged out lol

and I have met gay men who just didn't like me because I was transsexual. I think it is right to compare them to the straight community. And yes many do compare DQ's and CD's to transsexuals and see no difference. Which is how men on here do the same thing.

However there are a lot of trans too that hate gay men and don't want to be associated with anything gay. They sometimes at the clubs come off acting better than and of course gay men pick up on this.

Yeah, you're right. I appreciate your answer, it's been the most objective so far (showing both sides of the discussion) and goes to show that at the end we are all humans, and the issues we might have with other people have little to do with our sexuality and a lot more to do with our individual personality traits.

[trish]

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different entities.

It is my opinion that the "T" was tacked on to the LGB as an after-thought, to bolster their ranks.

The LGB movement rarely has the interests of the transcommunity in mind when they act.
I agree
with
peggygee.

But the LGBT is gaining strength every day, and I think our best chance for the moment of advancing toward political equity is to ride their coattails. There's no point and no advantage for us in returning hate with hate.

[BellaBellucci]

I agree
with
peggygee.

But the LGBT is gaining strength every day, and I think our best chance for the moment of advancing toward political equity is to ride their coattails. There's no point and no advantage for us in returning hate with hate.

I seriously have to disagree with this statement. Our LGB counterparts have been stabbing us in the back politically for years. They don't seem to want to let us ride their coattails, and frankly, that's fine with me. I think we should gain equality through the merits of our own actions anyway.

I do agree with your last sentence though. Just because I think we should be separate, it doesn't mean I think we should hate each other for it.

~BB~

[audifan]

I agree
with
peggygee.

But the LGBT is gaining strength every day, and I think our best chance for the moment of advancing toward political equity is to ride their coattails. There's no point and no advantage for us in returning hate with hate.

I think that's a 2-edged sword.

Transsexuals may gain from associating themselves with the LGB community's campaigning against hate and discrimination just for being different.

But don't you then perpetuate the myth that transsexuals are "gay"? Isn't that ultimately self-defeating?

[trish]

I seriously have to disagree with this statement. Our LGB counterparts have been stabbing us in the back politically for years. They don't seem to want to let us ride their coattails, and frankly, that's fine with me. I think we should gain equality through the merits of our own actions anyway.
Gays have quite definitely won the respect the general public. Admirals are getting fired for gay bashing. But transgendered woman are still a joke. It's depressing and infuriating, how we're treated and viewed by society at large. We've got lots of meritorious people in our community, but that's not a enough. How do you propose we proceed?


But don't you then perpetuate the myth that transsexuals are "gay"? Isn't that ultimately self-defeating? Good point.

[natina]

the world wants to make people who are tg/ts/cd/tv and gay a mental disease.

I remember this famous gay dude when he got older use to proposition guys all the time who liked ts.
he would get mad when they reject him and would call the men tranny chasers.
this is where that term started. it meant men who rejected gay males dressed as males but went after ts/tg/tv/cd


if you put lipstick on a pig
its still a pig:hide-1::yayo::confused::iagree::party::wiggle:
but some don't know,so let me um help you

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gFcyvKlFC2E/S-RltKUxVEI/AAAAAAAAACg/qOVoOO5KdPY/s1600/lipstick_on_a_pig_sticker-p217941141262225600q0ou_400-744211.jpg



And we can debate things in our little circle here, but the world still thinks if you were born with a penis OR HAD YOUR PENIS INVERTED, and you get boobs and hormones and everything under the sun, it's still not straight sex.

[BellaBellucci]

Gays have quite definitely won the respect the general public. Admirals are getting fired for gay bashing. But transgendered woman are still a joke. It's depressing and infuriating, how we're treated and viewed by society at large. We've got lots of meritorious people in our community, but that's not a enough. How do you propose we proceed?

We can't proceed unless some of those meritorious people come forward and become spokespeople for the cause. It seems those trans individuals who have earned respect are either outright stealth or don't want to lose their positions by proselytizing, and those who are the most negatively stereotypical (whether they deserve that reputation or not) are doing all the talking. The reason the mainstream population looks down on us is because the latter group seems to be all they see and the former group doesn't want to be lumped in with them. And can you really blame them?

I have no idea what do about this problem except to remind trans people that, like it or not, they represent all of us. We need more Amanda Simpson and less Emily Howard.


And we can debate things in our little circle here, but the world still thinks if you were born with a penis OR HAD YOUR PENIS INVERTED, and you get boobs and hormones and everything under the sun, it's still not straight sex.

Again, speak for yourself. That hasn't been my experience at all.

~BB~

[audifan]

Gays have quite definitely won the respect the general public. Admirals are getting fired for gay bashing. But transgendered woman are still a joke. It's depressing and infuriating, how we're treated and viewed by society at large. We've got lots of meritorious people in our community, but that's not a enough. How do you propose we proceed?


I think a huge problem is that the "T" in LGBT is associated by many, rightly or wrongly, as meaning "trannies" including transvestites, drag queens and CD's who are often associated with the gay community, and are often regarded as a joke, again whether rightly or not. Transsexuals are not the same; but getting that message across whilst remaining in the "T" of LGBT seems to me unlikely.

[BellaBellucci]

I think a huge problem is that the "T" in LGBT is associated by many, rightly or wrongly, as meaning "trannies" including transvestites, drag queens and CD's who are often associated with the gay community, and are often regarded as a joke, again whether rightly or not. Transsexuals are not the same; but getting that message across whilst remaining in the "T" of LGBT seems to me unlikely.

Well actually, since CD's and TV's have gender issues and not body or identity issues like TS's, they're more closely related to the LGB in my opinion. And in the case of drag queens, they are participating in a performance art that began and is still largely rooted in the gay community. If the LGB were to protect anybody, it would/should be them and not us.

~BB~

[audifan]

And we can debate things in our little circle here, but the world still thinks if you were born with a penis OR HAD YOUR PENIS INVERTED, and you get boobs and hormones and everything under the sun, it's still not straight sex.

The term "lipstick on a pig" refers to dressing up something to pretend it's something nicer. If you think about it that way, it's maybe not such an appropriate metaphor :)

Underlying reality is what it is, but perceptions can and should be changed.

[bte]

Some of my gay friends have no problem with transsexuals. They see them as men feminine guys and not as women. Although some gay people that I have known do have a problem with transsexuals to the point where they don't even want to be in the same room with them. So I guess it all depends. I mean why hate on transsexuals, its not like gay people have it so well? I guess they see it as transsexuals can "pass" in society and be accepted (as long as their T is kept secret) whereas gay people might not be that accepted due to religious idelogies.

[BellaBellucci]

Some of my gay friends have no problem with transsexuals. They see them as men feminine guys and not as women.

Umm... huh? How is not accepting transsexuals as women not a problem?

Seems like your friends might be hypocrites. They want to be accepted, but they don't want to accept others. FAIL.

~BB~

[peggygee]

We can't proceed unless some of those meritorious people come forward and become spokespeople for the cause.


It seems those trans individuals who have earned respect are either outright stealth or don't want to lose their positions by proselytizing, and those who are the most negatively stereotypical (whether they deserve that reputation or not) are doing all the talking.

The reason the mainstream population looks down on us is because the latter group seems to be all they see and the former group doesn't want to be lumped in with them. And can you really blame them?

I have no idea what do about this problem except to remind trans people that, like it or not, they represent all of us. We need more Amanda Simpson and less Emily Howard.


~BB~

I'm glad that the discussion has segued a bit, and has touched on this point.

I am wondering what degree of obligation you feel mainstream transwomen have to speak out on trans-issues.

By it's very definition "transsexual" denotes a crossing over of gender, and it is that woman's ultimate desire and goal to blend into the mainstream.

Thus if she is able to blend, dos she have an obligation to remain in, and or give back to the transcommunity.

I must admit that I am somewhat conflicted on the issue. Yes I have a trans-past, but it is just that, a past.

Then too the level of infighting, back-biting and dissension that goes on within the transcommunity makes me disinclined to be "out".

However, as stated I do have a trans-past, one which is part of me, and I don't feel comfortable kicking my Sisters under the bus. Thus I attempt to reach a happy medium, and do advocacy, education, and activism, albeit without exposing my visage.

[BellaBellucci]

I am wondering what degree of obligation you feel mainstream transwomen have to speak out on trans-issues.

By it's very definition "transsexual" denotes a crossing over of gender, and it is that woman's ultimate desire and goal to blend into the mainstream.

Thus if she is able to blend, dos she have an obligation to remain in, and or give back to the transcommunity.

I think that's a personal decision, but suffice it to say, there are plenty of trans people who don't do anything at all for the cause, some of whom who have taken quite a bit and have never given anything back. But I also think it's a mistake for one to get to a point where they can be stealth and then go super-activist. It's all subjective, but overall, I think more could be done.

I mean, you're post-op, and 99% of people in my everyday life have no idea I'm trans, but that doesn't stop us from standing up for what we believe in. Probably, the most important thing that any of us can do is hold ourselves in the highest esteem so that others have no choice but to follow suit, but of course part of that depends on a person's ability to blend; albeit not conform, but definitely not stick out like a sore thumb. Hopefully people will see respectable trans people and then transfer that acceptance to others that they may meet later on down the road, regardless of their level of confidence in their gender.


Then too the level of infighting, back-biting and dissension that goes on within the transcommunity makes me disinclined to be "out".

True, but first of all, most people have no idea what goes on with us behind the scenes, and they shouldn't. Our internal conversations, like those of the gay and African-American communities before us, are private and our own business unless somebody wants to seek them out, in which case, they're probably a supporter.

Secondly, I really don't feel, given the nature of the issues within our community, that we are going to be able to work out any differences and advance our cause without a certain level of internal conflict, which doesn't have to always be negative. If people looked at things more constructively, they'd realize that conflict creates opportunity as well.

~BB~

[bte]

Umm... huh? How is not accepting transsexuals as women not a problem?

Seems like your friends might be hypocrites. They want to be accepted, but they don't want to accept others. FAIL.

~BB~

I don't know, they weird. Tried to explain it to them plenty of times, but they still think they are just men in wigs. I don't think that, so don't think that I do.

[BellaBellucci]

I don't think that, so don't think that I do.

Not at all sweetheart.

It's interesting that you felt the need to say that though. We're not all knee-jerkers here, you know, and I love a good debate, so in my opinion, no legitimate comment is off limits. :lol:

~BB~

[bte]

Not at all sweetheart.

It's interesting that you felt the need to say that though. We're not all knee-jerkers here, you know, and I love a good debate, so in my opinion, no legitimate comment is off limits. :lol:

~BB~

Alright cool, cause if I didn't say that, then someone will say "So bte, you think transwomen are just men in wigs, and blah blah blah." Then I be labeled as fag and such and such.

[drock]

I think most gay men are envious of TS.

[BellaBellucci]

I think most gay men are envious of TS.

Now that's an interesting opinion. Please explain.

~BB~

[audifan]

...I guess they see it as transsexuals can "pass" in society and be accepted (as long as their T is kept secret) whereas gay people might not be that accepted due to religious idelogies.

Sorry I don't understand that. A gay person could "pass" in society and be accepted as long as they kept their sexuality secret. It's the same prejudice in both cases. :confused:

[hippifried]

They view them on video of course. Just like everybody else.

As for the rest of the group analysis:
Let me know when the "gay cimmunity", or any other "community" for that matter, falls into a lockstep mindset on anything.

[BellaBellucci]

They view them on video of course. Just like everybody else.

As for the rest of the group analysis:
Let me know when the "gay cimmunity", or any other "community" for that matter, falls into a lockstep mindset on anything.

Hippifried, meet the Republican Party.

http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2010/11/02/image7015031x.jpg

You know better! :lol:

~BB~

[TSLoverUK999]

Was out with friends over the holidays, went off for a smoke as we moved bars. Standing in Starbuck's doorway & a guy comes across, "you ever had your cock sucked by a man", I just said "no it doesn't float my boat, but thanks for the offer". He turns to me and says "how do you know if you don't try ?", "look mate I ain't interested, I know what I like and it ain't that".

For some reason rather than leave it at that, I told him my gf was Ts, you should have seen his face change in disgust ! I couldn't believe it, it pisses me off that guys who like transgender are percieved as perverts and TG girls are freaks.

Maybe its me but it ain't that hard to get your head round.

[fred41]

I will say this. Some of the negative responses you get from members of the gay community... you will also get from members of the straight community (at least from what I personally hear).
..with one exception though...some straight people I've talked to seem much more likely to accept a post op TS, as opposed to a pre-op TS as a woman (and a relationship with such...as straight or at least "straighter")
...do some of you hear the same results from members in the gay community?

[GrimFusion]

I think all of this differs from person to person. I ended up hanging out with an old middle school bud of mine playing catch-up at an LBGT party. He was gay, but spent a couple years back in high school messing with crossdressing. His mom was a feminist with a daughter and a son. She gave up because she "discovered" 13 years into her marriage that she was gay, so Dad was back in Wisconsin while Jason was growing up. His mother definitely favored his sister over him and Jason spent the majority of his childhood being ignored and allowed to fend for himself.

I can understand how he has some mommy and daddy issues. He spent some time considering transition, but his shrink advised him not to more or less because in his case, it was just a call for attention. His mom wouldn't have reacted well anyway and the whole deal was sort of about her acceptance.

He's always been chill with transsexuals. Then again, at that same party we ended up outside smoking, talking to a gay couple. They were both pretty drunk, so the conversation was a little "all over the place", but transsexuals came up, and one of them claimed that gay men have to put up with more alienation than transsexuals, then Jason chimed in and asked the guy if he'd ever be caught dead outside in a pink dress. He said no and Jason replied something like "Transsexuals are just as uncomfortable with the idea of wearing boyish pants and shirts out in public. They aren't gay to begin with". I'm probably changing that up a lot. It's been about two years.

I agree with everybody that it's more or less an awareness deal. You can't exactly say all gay men hate transsexuals because some of them don't have an opinion; others support the community or know somebody. I'd bet that if someone were to run some kind of study, you'd find the gay community just as split over transgenderisim as the straight community is.

Things are a little harsher here in Portland because we really don't have a transgender scene. There are a lot of CDs and a couple of really snotty escorts, but no substance to the culture... which is odd. You'd expect a place like Portland, Oregon to be a little more accepting and inviting.

[drock]

Now that's an interesting opinion. Please explain.

~BB~

Because if a TS is beautiful she can pretty much be transparent and blend in with the heterosexual population.. A lot of gay guys have these thoughts of converting straight men, but that's for the most part of them delusions of grandeaur... A TS can actually pull a large majority of straight men if she's hot..

Like for instance i've seen some gay guys get all giddy and excited when I was hanging out with a TS friend of mines because they thought that if I liked trannys that I liked gay men as well, but then when they find out you're not that way all the air goes out of their sails. A lot of TS can and do go to straight clubs and get a lot of play from the guys there, so I think that a lot of gay men become envious and develop anomosity towards TS because a lot of gay men still kinda view TS as men and don't understand why straight guys dig them so much...

[peggygee]

I agree
with
peggygee.

But the LGBT is gaining strength every day, and I think our best chance for the moment of advancing toward political equity is to ride their coattails. There's no point and no advantage for us in returning hate with hate.






As for the rest of the group analysis:
Let me know when the "gay cimmunity", or any other "community" for that matter, falls into a lockstep mindset on anything.

By no means is the gay community, nor any other segment of society homogeneous in their viewpoints.

As such it would not be wise to extrapolate the disdain or lack of concern by some upon the majority.

However, there have been many prominent figures and instances that have shown the back-stabbing from the gay community.

Thus when Barney Frank, the HRC, and the like betray us yet again for our fight for civil rights, we shall cast our might via our votes and our dollars.

[BellaBellucci]

By no means is the gay community, nor any other segment of society homogeneous in their viewpoints.

As such it would not be wise to extrapolate the disdain or lack of concern by some upon the majority.

However, there have been many prominent figures and instances that have shown the back-stabbing from the gay community.

Thus when Barney Frank, the HRC, and the like betray us yet again for our fight for civil rights, we shall cast our might via our votes and our dollars.

Exactamundo! :iagree:

~BB~

[JoePitt]

Gays have quite definitely won the respect the general public.

If that was the case, why don't more openly gay candidates win? How many privates and seamen are being fired for their views. Weren't the majority of them against repealing DADT? BTW, acceptance =/= respect.

[JoePitt]

We can't proceed unless some of those meritorious people come forward and become spokespeople for the cause. It seems those trans individuals who have earned respect are either outright stealth or don't want to lose their positions by proselytizing, and those who are the most negatively stereotypical (whether they deserve that reputation or not) are doing all the talking.

So would you be in favor of outing some or many of those stealth TSs? It seemed to be a pretty successful tactic for the gay & lesbian community. I think you can trace a big part of their current level of acceptance to this.

[BigDF]

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different entities.

It is my opinion that the "T" was tacked on to the LGB as an after-thought, to bolster their ranks.

The LGB movement rarely has the interests of the transcommunity in mind when they act.I agree totally with what you're saying and I think that B was added for the same reason. I think in the political arena that anytime the interests of the transcommunity are addressed it's more of a coincidence than anything planned. Adding the extra letters is a fundraising ploy, nothing more. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them add a "P" if they thought there were enough pansexuals around who would be willing to contribute to the cause(which I am not, BTW) as someone once said, politics makes for strange bedfellows.:)

[innocentbychoice]

Because if a TS is beautiful she can pretty much be transparent and blend in with the heterosexual population.. A lot of gay guys have these thoughts of converting straight men, but that's for the most part of them delusions of grandeaur... A TS can actually pull a large majority of straight men if she's hot..

Like for instance i've seen some gay guys get all giddy and excited when I was hanging out with a TS friend of mines because they thought that if I liked trannys that I liked gay men as well, but then when they find out you're not that way all the air goes out of their sails. A lot of TS can and do go to straight clubs and get a lot of play from the guys there, so I think that a lot of gay men become envious and develop anomosity towards TS because a lot of gay men still kinda view TS as men and don't understand why straight guys dig them so much...

Not true, maybe it's your experience but you're generalizing. We can get all the cock we want, from other gay men. Why wasting time with someone who isn't even into us in the first place?

[innocentbychoice]

I will say this. Some of the negative responses you get from members of the gay community... you will also get from members of the straight community (at least from what I personally hear).



I agree with everybody that it's more or less an awareness deal. You can't exactly say all gay men hate transsexuals because some of them don't have an opinion; others support the community or know somebody. I'd bet that if someone were to run some kind of study, you'd find the gay community just as split over transgenderisim as the straight community is.

That's what I'm saying. Some of the people in the gay community can be close-minded when it comes to transsexualism, just like some of the people in the straight community. It's a matter of lack of information, nothing else.

[nonnonnon]

Not true, maybe it's your experience but you're generalizing. We can get all the cock we want, from other gay men. Why wasting time with someone who isn't even into us in the first place?

to be fair, I've heard that before from the gay horse's mouth also

[BellaBellucci]

So would you be in favor of outing some or many of those stealth TSs? It seemed to be a pretty successful tactic for the gay & lesbian community. I think you can trace a big part of their current level of acceptance to this.

Gods no! People have a right to privacy. It worked for gays because it's harder to have a relationship in the closet. A passable transwoman isn't really in a closet in the first place because really, the only person who needs to know her status is her husband, although it would certainly be helpful if some of them would out themselves to selective parties in order to help the cause.

~BB~.

[loveburst]

As I said in another thread, my experience with many gay men is that they hold animosity towards us. They think we're trying to be something that we're not, and that presumably we attract their men. Their leadership sees us as the redheaded stepchildren of the so-called LGBT movement and the first sacrifice to be made in attempts for political progress.

This DOES NOT mean I harbor ill will towards gays, simply that it's what I've noticed and I'd like to hear what others think.

Discuss.

~BB~

I am thinking this is something that cannot be attached to all Gay people (and I am not saying that you would be). This might just be something, that is someones personal viewpoint of belief that is then "contrasted out" as being their (gay minded) opinions because they are Gay, ..- because they indeed are Gay..

Personally, I told a friend of mine, who is a Gay man, about my personal feelings towards TGirls.. and he seemed to be totally okay with it, it could be that he was not attracted to me, but I am thinking it was just that he was cool with it, and kind of willing to philosophise on the subject, because of who he was, and is.. He told me, when I talked about most TGirls finding out their true gender during their early childhood, that he had also found some tour guide (who was also a man) really attractive (while he was only a boy), and that he also knew it from the beginning of his childhood, that he had this kind of interest towards the male gender, that most his friends did not seem to share.

Now this is just another personal experience, but after that I was glad, that I have such friend circle in my life, and that at least the Gay people who are my friends friends, seem to be totally okay with my lifestyle and choise, and my natural way of being (..that is, really enjoying the beauty that TGirls can offer -4me- in this world..).

Personally I have at least thought, that all Gay's would be open and acceptive of these things, but perhaps there are just so many personal paths in this world, that it is important to remember not to try to label someone as happy, or negative person etc. because of a category that we can mentally attach to them(?).

edit: but still, coming to think of it, this kind of negation from Gay people seem really quite unbelievable - I would have thought that all Gays are on the leading edge of bringing in the positive and a more tolerating world filled with loving and good vibes.. That is why it seems really strange to read that Gay people have made these kinds of remarks on the T-girlies.. *astounded*

[talon]

Seems pretty hypocritical. A certain type of gay guys adopt feminine mannerisms, the voice, the body language, but that's it. But, my knowledge is kind of limited of that world.

I'm curious how Lesbians react to tgirls, probably more favorably I might guess. I mean real lesbians, not porn lesbians or "bi on Friday" straight girls who make out with each other in bars.

It seems like there are far too many genders in the world to try and put people into categories. For example -

males who like females only (straight)
males who like females and males (traditional bi)
males who like females and tgirls (me, and most guys on this site, I'd guess)
males who like only tgirls
males who like females, males, and tgirls (pansexuals?)
males who like tgirls and males (probably not very common)
males who like males (gays)

females who like males (straight)
females who like males and females (bi)
females who like males and tgirls
females who like females and tgirls
females who like females, males, and tgirls (pansexual?)
females who like only tiglrs (???)
females who like only females (lesbian)

tgirls who like males
tgirls who like males and tgirls
tgirls who like males and females
tgirls who like males, females, and tgirls
tgirls who like only females
tgirls who like females and tgirls (translesbian?)
tgirls who like only other tgirls (translesbian?)

you could also add in the FTM transgenders...plus people's tastes change over time, too.