No stay of execution for Crips Founder Tookie Williams.

[NYCe]

California's Supreme Court on Wednesday refused to stop the execution of convicted killer Stanley "Tookie" Williams, the founder of the Crips street gang who became an anti-gang crusader while on Death Row, a court spokeswoman said. The condemned man has two possible chances to win a stay of his December 13 execution.

What's your view on this?

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

wondering if Snoop is gonna cripwalk outside the penn

[Legend]

Dude is a killer and a founder of one of the most notorious gangs in ca he murdered so many innocent people and is finally getting what he deserve, i dont think snoop doggy dog(still a crip) can save his ass from frying now!


And this killer was nominated for a nobel peace prize LOL, what a fucking joke!

[NYCe]

Legend, you're for the death penalty?

[Legend]

Legend, you're for the death penalty?

For murderers like him.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

anxiously awaiting this answer

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Well- its quite clear the prison system does not work- because hardly anyone is rehabilitated.

And I personally think life in prison is far worse the the death penalty-I don't think the death penalty acts as any deterant, and what if someone is killed but they did not really commit the crime?

I would get rid of the death penalty and just keep life sentences without parole.

[Legend]

This guy has killed women/children people in the back/ front and he even killed a guy who begged for his life, this guy was convinced by a jury and is now gonna get his justice. The same people who wants him set free or the same bunch who said they will riot!

[BlackAdder]

You can tell Legend is seriously wet behind the ears....Do you know that hes written more anti-gang literature then most people do there entire lives?? And you dont get nominated for the NPP just by standing around with a sign that says "No More Gangs!".

The prison system is COMPLETELY broken, and the Death Penalty as is is complete bullshit. I think in this one case though, that he may actually be rehabilitated. I cant tell you if it was the prison experience or not, but "rehabilitating" criminals by putting them in with other worse criminals is super retarded...

Also, just because you found something, doesnt mean your responsible for said groups actions afterwards....I could EASILY point out the Founding Fathers if you would like to argue the point, huh?

[Legend]

[quote="AllanahStarrNYC"]And I personally think life in prison is far worse the the death penaltyquote]


Too bad victims don't have that option.

[Legend]

You can tell Legend is seriously wet behind the ears....Do you know that hes written more anti-gang literature then most people do there entire lives?? And you dont get nominated for the NPP just by standing around with a sign that says "No More Gangs!".

The prison system is COMPLETELY broken, and the Death Penalty as is is complete bullshit. I think in this one case though, that he may actually be rehabilitated. I cant tell you if it was the prison experience or not, but "rehabilitating" criminals by putting them in with other worse criminals is super retarded...

Also, just because you found something, doesnt mean your responsible for said groups actions afterwards....I could EASILY point out the Founding Fathers if you would like to argue the point, huh?

dude you can write all the kiddy/anti-gang books you want to its doesn't make you rehabilated.And yes one of his followers nominated him so that doesn't mean shit. Wouldn't you think differently if this killer shot one of your folks in the back!

[AllanahStarrNYC]

actually i saw a very interesting documentary the other day
about victims meeting in prison with their attackers- or families there of.

it's a form of mediation- and rehabilitation for victims.
it was quite interesting to see a mother ask questions to her daughters killer.

again-i think life in prison is a far worse punishment than death...
if i had someone close to me be a victim of a violent crime or murdered- i would rather pick life in prison as punishment...

[BlackAdder]

My grandfather and I used to get into some serious rows about legalizing the drug trade, he was Chief Superintendent at Graterford Prison...I remember riding around it when i was little and thinking wow..those are machine gun turrets on top of those towers!!!.....

The more I learned on it though, the more i realized it would never happen because of the cottage industry that has sprung up around keeping people in jail....

Think of it: all those people employed at the actual prisons, all the support people to do with the justice system, the entire DEA(who are dirty fucks, i know personally), Police forces and SWAT, all the people who train them, the people who make all the consumables used by said prisoners and all the associated service personel......its a fucking self perpetuating economic monster...The so called War on Drugs has had the most successful dog wagging in recent world history.

Itll never end as long as our vaunted government is profiting off it...and thats that, as they say.

http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/ABOLISH/mar98/0261.html

May have been posted awhile ago, but its all good points.


Legend im shocked at you being for the Death Penalty actually.....You do know that a HUGE number a blacks have been killed vs's any other species right? You call that fair and just??

[Legend]

So many killers have been set free from loopholes or even giving parole so many times life in prison doesnt mean crap.

[4DegreesWarmer]

In terms of him winning a stay, I'd say he shouldn't. There's no doubt he has done commendable work since his imprisonment, yet that doesn't make amends to the dead in my view.

There's no doubt our prison system is beyond being fucked up, but I'm definitely not opposed to the death penalty. I don't view it as serving the purpose of being a deterrent, though for some(no matter how minuscule that percentage is) I'm sure it is. I see the situation as him unjustly taking the life of someone as violating their personal rights...as such he forfeited his own.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I say close down one of those carribean resort islands and make it a main prison for prisoners that without a shadow of a doubt have been found guilty...........

actually England did this but now Australia is a country, lol

still it works for me, Hurricane season comes and you have the doors unlock and it's fight to live!!!!!!!!!

[d]

So many killers have been set free from loopholes or even giving parole so many times life in prison doesnt mean crap.

you've obviously never been to prison...letme tell you, once you've been in a real maximum security prison and are released you realize 1 thing...you never are going back and even if that means killing someone u would do it...anybody whos spent real time in prison and is released is no longer human...humans cant survive in there

[Legend]

My grandfather and I used to get into some serious rows about legalizing the drug trade, he was Chief Superintendent at Graterford Prison...I remember riding around it when i was little and thinking wow..those are machine gun turrets on top of those towers!!!.....

The more I learned on it though, the more i realized it would never happen because of the cottage industry that has sprung up around keeping people in jail....

Think of it: all those people employed at the actual prisons, all the support people to do with the justice system, the entire DEA(who are dirty fucks, i know personally), Police forces and SWAT, all the people who train them, the people who make all the consumables used by said prisoners and all the associated service personel......its a fucking self perpetuating economic monster...The so called War on Drugs has had the most successful dog wagging in recent world history.

Itll never end as long as our vaunted government is profiting off it...and thats that, as they say.

http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/ABOLISH/mar98/0261.html

May have been posted awhile ago, but its all good points.


Legend im shocked at you being for the Death Penalty actually.....You do know that a HUGE number a blacks have been killed vs's any other species right? You call that fair and just??

No offense dude but what does race have to do with that killer(tookie) or the subject and that whole justice system theory is just tht a thoery!

"And just about everybody knows the sorry history of the death penalty as
it relates to blacks and poor people."

I stopped reading at that point!

[BlackAdder]

Ya know, Ive always thought that JWBL.....You have two separate sentences....One for offenders that deserve a 2nd chance and may be rehabbed, and the other sentence reserved for people whove done the most heinous fucked up acts...

Build a huge prison somewhere out in the islands or even out in the unused reaches out west. Put a 100' wall around the mini-town and just let the fuckers go native....Air drop in supplies and have the Navy/Army camp on it....One way in, one way out...

[BlackAdder]

Ahhh..okay so you read about 9 sentences which you probably didnt understand anyway......NM dude....your just not getting it.

[NateInPA]

Ok, coming from a guy that works in a prison......I support the death penalty only because I have had numerous inmates tell me how much money they make on the "outside" and six months "ain't shit" to them. I realize that is minor, but keep in mind I also deal with the child molesters on a daily basis so I may not be the best person to ask on this subject.

[the dude]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams

If he lives or dies it's no big deal to me. If he did the crimes he has to live with himself and if he is ok with killing people good for him I suppose. More killers should be like Gary Gilmore and accept their death sentences. If he didn't do it then it will be a shame.

[GroobySteven]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai

[scipio]

If one doesn't believe that true rehabilitaton is possible, then one would probably be for the death penalty.

The death penalty is really based on the Judaic "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" tenet. It is more to do with mollifying an injured party (or in the case of murder, their family) or seeing that what was done to the victim was now done to the perpetrator, in equal measure. If one subscribe to that sort of vengeful faith one might derive some solace from this but that's about as far as it goes in terms of benefit. It certainly doesn't prevent more murders, to which the last several thousand years are testament.

I think it's possible that people can be rehabilitated, and perhaps this is such a case. That doesn't mean he should just be released but perhaps he should be allowed to attempt to put as much right as he put wrong earlier in life. I'm no bleeding heart, nor do I think "society is to blame" but it seems that he could stay in prison and perhaps do more good from there than if he were dead.

[chefmike]

Let's not forget that the US executes retarded people, also(as seanchai just pointed out). Shrubya specialized in it while guv of texas. And someone said building prisons is an industry unto itself, you know it. And on low-level and first offender drug "crimes", compare the cost and results of rehab and community service to incarceration...no contest.

[brickcitybrother]

His case screams for an answer to this question:

Can someone be 'reformed/rehabilitated' in prison, and if so, should there sentences be modified because of it?

An affirmative answer leads to the conclusion that a commutation of his sentence would be just under the circumstances.

An negative answer requires one to say - once a convicted person is sentenced, they must serve that sentence (whether or not they 'become a better person while in prison).

The issue of innocence is not in the question. And instead of just posing the question - I'll give you my answer.

I'm for the latter, if we can have fair and accurate sentencing. I just read a report where two individuals charged with the same crime - with similar backgrounds and economic circumstances recieved enormously different sentences. How can this occur? These were federal charges and the judges who sentenced these men (for child pornography) were less than 70 miles apart. Oh, just to keep the debate focused (they were both, white, straight, professional and married). One received 6 months house arrest and six months probation. The other... 27 months in prison! The both had the means to obtain excellent legal representation - so why the huge difference? Who knows. P.S. The government asked for the same sentence in each case - go figure.

I don't think for on minute the death penalty is an effective deterrent to anyone. PERIOD. I do think it is an effective tool of retribution. Decide for yourself which side you stand on. If enforcement and punishment were effectively and evenly metted out - I think we'd live in a better society. I think of Signapore - where crime is unusual, quickly and successfully dealt with and punishment is evenly handed out. No one wants to fool around there as the chances are: You'll get caught and you'll be punished - without regard to status, money or fame.

I'll get down now.

I :soapbox

[Legend]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai


Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

[GroobySteven]

Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

Holy shit - I've heard it all now.
Who said I was an atheist, asshole? I just don't believe in your brand of Christianity. Once again you are picking and choosing from the bible to suit your vanity. You choose "an eye for an eye" from the old testement yet one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou Shalt not Kill? How can you as a Christian condone the death penalty? Not some Christians... YOU?
Jesus chose to forgive people of their past sins and to turn the other cheek, as a Christian shouldn't YOU subscribe to that way of thinking, there are many parables in the bible of Jesus forgiving, including the one who betrayed him.

I guess as being just over 18 and certainly retarded yourself, you're closer to knowing if those people can be held responsible for their crimes.
Fucking cretin.
seanchai

[chefmike]

ilLegible, I believe I heard you (mis)use the term oxymoron in one of your tantrums on another thread....well, you referring to "retards" is the ultimate in oxymorons. With the emphasis on moron, in your case.

[Legend]

ilLegible, I believe I heard you (mis)use the term oxymoron in one of your tantrums on another thread....well, you referring to "retards" is the ultimate in oxymorons. With the emphasis on moron, in your case.

Telling a gay joke or insulting someone with a gay term on this board is a oxymoron.

[Hugh Jarrod]

Don't give a rat's ass what diggity dogg snoopy droopy or anyone else says, Tookie should fry. I mean sizzle fo shizzle! LOL!

[Legend]

Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

Holy shit - I've heard it all now.
Who said I was an atheist, asshole? I just don't believe in your brand of Christianity. Once again you are picking and choosing from the bible to suit your vanity. You choose "an eye for an eye" from the old testement yet one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou Shalt not Kill? How can you as a Christian condone the death penalty? Not some Christians... YOU?
Jesus chose to forgive people of their past sins and to turn the other cheek, as a Christian shouldn't YOU subscribe to that way of thinking, there are many parables in the bible of Jesus forgiving, including the one who betrayed him.

I guess as being just over 18 and certainly retarded yourself, you're closer to knowing if those people can be held responsible for their crimes.
Fucking cretin.
seanchai


LOL, you guys and your personal insults,Many Christians don't believe in the same things ,don't listen to all the proganda the media throws at people like you about Christians because many Christians don't belive in the certain things.

[NickTheQuick]

wondering if Snoop is gonna cripwalk outside the penn
LMAO

[Roadblock7611]

[quote=seanchai]I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai


Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.



I hate to bring this up since there have been religious debates in the past......but isnt god supposed to be the only one to judge? I think that would be up to him/her/it and if you are a christian and support the death penalty then you woudl most defintley be a Hypocrite...............wait, a christian being a Hypocrite........That'll never happen

[Hugh Jarrod]

ilLegible, I believe I heard you (mis)use the term oxymoron in one of your tantrums on another thread....well, you referring to "retards" is the ultimate in oxymorons. With the emphasis on moron, in your case.

Telling a gay joke or insulting someone with a gay term on this board is a oxymoron.Since when was the definition of that word changed to "being hypocritical"? You really have no idea what an oxymoron is so, please, retire it from your vocabulary. Or maybe just STFU once and for all. Oh, and btw, Jesus thinks you're a lying sack of shit with a big fat ass. And he dares you to post a picture of yourself.

[Legend]

ilLegible, I believe I heard you (mis)use the term oxymoron in one of your tantrums on another thread....well, you referring to "retards" is the ultimate in oxymorons. With the emphasis on moron, in your case.

Telling a gay joke or insulting someone with a gay term on this board is a oxymoron.Since when was the definition of that word changed to "being hypocritical"? You really have no idea what an oxymoron is so, please, retire it from your vocabulary. Or maybe just STFU once and for all. Oh, and btw, Jesus thinks you're a lying sack of shit with a big fat ass. And he dares you to post a picture of yourself.


why the heck are you always sticking your nose in my business you don't even know the fringing definition if you did you wouldn't answer with that statement. Here is a example of a oxymoron for you to soak in your brain :

Loving hatred
living death
silent cry
Happily sad
gay homophobe
Living dead
healthy junk food

And you can figure how i was using it in my sentence so arianna or anybody that thanks i don't know what it is HAVE A NICE DAY.

Oh yeah arianna why do you always throw in a Jesus joke is that your lack of intelligent thought process that you cant come up with anything else.

[tubgirl]

Don't give a rat's ass what diggity dogg snoopy droopy or anyone else says, Tookie should fry. I mean sizzle fo shizzle! LOL!


bwahahaha....

co-sign (as you all like to say)

[bigd321]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai

The death penalty is supposedly for people with no hope of being rehabiliated so I definitely think retarded people should be executed if a death penalty is going to be in place. If you're not mentally capable of knowing right from wrong and you've killed before you're the definition of why the death penalty exists. Seanchai, I dont know how up you are on the laws in the US but actually the supreme court ruled against executed retarded people. To me that should invalidate the entire system they have in place and no one should be executed and proves what total hypocrisy the "system" is.

[bigd321]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai


Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

You're back talking dude. You're obviously not much of a Christian if you believe in the death penalty. Isn't the entire point is to be like Christ? Why would you set your sights lower and do it have ass. Being compassionate towards the death penalty is a simple step and you're not willing to take that step. That's how I can back up saying you're not much of a Christian if you claim to be one. Also genius, Atheist are much less violent than Christians, you need to wake up and look at the world. Christians have killed millions throughout history themselves and religion as a whole kills more than anyone else.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

did he call mentally challeneged people retards? :shock:

[Baran]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai


Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

You're back talking dude. You're obviously not much of a Christian if you believe in the death penalty. Isn't the entire point is to be like Christ? Why would you set your sights lower and do it have ass. Being compassionate towards the death penalty is a simple step and you're not willing to take that step. That's how I can back up saying you're not much of a Christian if you claim to be one. Also genius, Atheist are much less violent than Christians, you need to wake up and look at the world. Christians have killed millions throughout history themselves and religion as a whole kills more than anyone else.

You must be kidding here!!!! Stalin was an Atheist, so was Hitler and Mao too.

[bigd321]

I Legend you hypocritical arse.
What happened to Christian forgiveness and thought shalt not kill.

You make me sick.
Choose one path or the other.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, crime is on the rise. The US is in the top 3 to execute people in the world and only the US and Iran executes under 18's and retarded people.

seanchai


Some Christians support the death penalty, there are punishment for sins and the death penalty applies to many of those sins,you are so quick to jugde me from a non religion view with this atheists like behavior.

Maybe if those under 18's and retards wouldn't do horrible crimes they wouldn't be executed.

You're back talking dude. You're obviously not much of a Christian if you believe in the death penalty. Isn't the entire point is to be like Christ? Why would you set your sights lower and do it have ass. Being compassionate towards the death penalty is a simple step and you're not willing to take that step. That's how I can back up saying you're not much of a Christian if you claim to be one. Also genius, Atheist are much less violent than Christians, you need to wake up and look at the world. Christians have killed millions throughout history themselves and religion as a whole kills more than anyone else.

You must be kidding here!!!! Stalin was an Atheist, so was Hitler and Mao too.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao combined didn't kill more people than Christians. Hitler often compared himself to Jesus Christ, he had a lot of respect for him if you want to get technical. This really isn't an argument you can win because it involves clear cut facts from history. Christians and religious people in general tend to be more violet. Wait you do see athiest drowning their babies or committing mass suicides.... oh wait, damn, that's shit Religious do. My mistake... Religion do keep a lot of (I dont wanna say less stable or weak minded but sort in the vain) people from going insane. It gives them something to latch on to and keep their sanity. It even keep some from doing harm so I'm all for religion it's just a lot of holes in the theology and hypocrisy.

(edit, I originally said didn't kill more ppl than Hitler in the first sentence... I also wanted to add that non religious folks never burned people alive for being "witches)

[yourdaddy]

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Mr. Wilson needs to go down not only for killing 4 people, but spawning a murderous bunch of dope-dealing, murdering thugs. It's pretty amazing how righteous people can get when they know they are about to die. There aren't any atheists in fox-holes.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

out to wave the confederate flag early todar are we- your daddy?

[chefmike]

out to wave the confederate flag early todar are we- your daddy?

He always takes time to poke his head out of his bunker for such a noble cause.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

oh i forgot- i saw this the other day and didnt know if u had it

merry x mas lol

[chefmike]

LMAO! That's a keeper, although shrubya isn't!!

[Baran]

Bye now Tookie!!! O dear, how sad, never mind!!!

[Copenhagen]

Wow, its all i have to say, "wow". I thought this would make the environmentalists happy. More clean air for us to breath without this clown sucking it in. The real tragedy here, is there that they don't go Gary Glitter-Viet Nam style on his ass and put him in front of a firing squad.

And to whoever made the comment about him writing anti gang books for kids or being nominated for a nobel peace prize......thanks for the laugh.

[Baran]

And to whoever made the comment about him writing anti gang books for kids or being nominated for a nobel peace prize......thanks for the laugh.The damage has already been done. So if those books change the lives of any confused kids in a downward spiral, that's better than nothing at this point.

You would talk different if that Tookie killed your parent or kid.
He had a choice then and he choose to rape and murder. I hope he will die very slowly. They should torture him.

[Baran]

Yep you right, the death penalty is too easy for this scum. But no more writing books. Keep him in a room with the light on all the time. Bring in his mother and rape her in front of his eyes, kill her slowly in front of his eyes. She is responsible because she put him on earth.
Then torture him every day just a little. Cut off his feet and hands. Rip out his tongue. Burn his face and let him alive untill he dies at 80 or so.

[chefmike]

Yep you right, the death penalty is too easy for this scum. But no more writing books. Keep him in a room with the light on all the time. Bring in his mother and rape her in front of his eyes, kill her slowly in front of his eyes. She is responsible because she put him on earth.
Then torture him every day just a little. Cut off his feet and hands. Rip out his tongue. Burn his face and let him alive untill he dies at 80 or so.

He's talking about the chimp-in-chief right? Even I would say that's a tad harsh.

[Kramer]

Whats wrong with an eye for an eye? You kill someone, you in turn die? That would make murders think a little!

This BUM has to fry. Right in front of the victims families! Thats full circle justice. Its just a shame those families had to suffer the 20 years he did in the can.

[chefmike]

Wow, its all i have to say, "wow". I thought this would make the environmentalists happy. More clean air for us to breath without this clown sucking it in.


You're referring to this clown, right?

[Copenhagen]

Just out of curiosity, you do know canada has built 7 nuclear power plants within 40 miles of our border? Why? Its clean power. Now in our country it takes an act of God to build a power plant. Anyways, what was your point with bringing up bush? Someone starts a thread on a convicted killer and you bring up bush. Why? Oh, i said the word clown and you thought of Bush. Good work. I sure hope someone else read the word clown and posts something on Clinton or Reagan. That would really add to this enlightened discussion. In the time it took to write this post someone could have put 2 rounds in Crip boy and the world would be a better place.

[chefmike]

Just out of curiosity, you do know canada has built 7 nuclear power plants within 40 miles of our border? Why? Its clean power. Now in our country it takes an act of God to build a power plant. Anyways, what was your point with bringing up bush? Someone starts a thread on a convicted killer and you bring up bush. Why? Oh, i said the word clown and you thought of Bush. Good work. I sure hope someone else read the word clown and posts something on Clinton or Reagan. That would really add to this enlightened discussion. In the time it took to write this post someone could have put 2 rounds in Crip boy and the world would be a better place.

Wrong, clown. You managed to work in the term environmentalist into a discussion of the death penalty...kudos for remembering your rush talking points. Thus the ridicule of your chimp in chief and his henchman cheney's secret energy task force...policy written by this country's most nefarious environmental rapists...I see you're from ohio, you been munchin that hillbilly heroin like rush the junkie?

[yourdaddy]

Copenhagen, nice thoughtful post. The only clown on this board is some teenager that calls himself a "certified tranny expert". I am his Daddy. He thinks he's the cutest little guy. He only has a one word vocabulary, so just ignore him if you like. It bugs him when I keep a watchful eye on the little guy. He is continually sucking up to our moderator, hoping to learn a little about T-gurls.

[chefmike]

dumbdaddy, I'm glad you found a "friend", as it seems vicki hasn't pulled your fat out of the fire lately...

I'm having database problems like everyone else, but I'll leave you with a picture of your daddy...

PS...you munchin on that hillbilly heroin too? JUST SAY NO!!! LMFAO!!!


http://photobucket.com/albums/a78/chefmike_/th_bush_finger.gif

[scipio]

Yep you right, the death penalty is too easy for this scum. But no more writing books. Keep him in a room with the light on all the time. Bring in his mother and rape her in front of his eyes, kill her slowly in front of his eyes. She is responsible because she put him on earth.
Then torture him every day just a little. Cut off his feet and hands. Rip out his tongue. Burn his face and let him alive untill he dies at 80 or so.

You sound like a German.

Perhaps if the families of the victims requested such treatment, there might be some logic in it. Not that I agree by any means, but they would be only ones with any right to demand vengeance, not some intolerant kraut. If you're one of the aforementioned family members, I take it all back.

[Copenhagen]

Thanks yourdaddy. I will say one thing about Chefmike. My money is on him in the "spoon throw" event in the next special olympics.

[GroobySteven]

Legend, you once again failed to answer any of my direct questions in response to your misled/uninformed biblical or Christianity statements.
I'm asking you those questions, not "some Christians" this or "some Christians" that.
Have you actually read the bible?
Do you have a mind of your own or are you just quoting some Tv envangelist?

Have your own opinions and don't follow the sheep, Jesus didn't.
seanchai

[marissaazts]

kill him
commit a crime pay the price

[runningdownthatdream]

State sanctioned murder is disgusting.

An individual committing murder is solely responsible for the act...for an entire nation to then support killing that individual says that the entire nation is devoid of mercy and is just as extreme as the individual. If that's the case, what is the point of having a state? Why not devolve into anarchy and at least give everyone the right to murder who he/she chooses?

I understand vendetta between individuals or even families but for a state?

[Copenhagen]

i am guessing you are pro life as well.

[skyler]

Don't give a rat's ass what diggity dogg snoopy droopy or anyone else says, Tookie should fry. I mean sizzle fo shizzle! LOL!

lol sizzle fo shizzle to funny :D

[yourdaddy]

I'm just hoping Arnold is a closet member of this board. If so, sweet little innocent tookie gonna meet his maker, real soon.

[chefmike]

i am guessing you are pro life as well.

Would you prefer that he is anti-abortion, with a fondess for executing people, like your glorious leader shrubya?

[Felicia Katt]

I am late to this thread, but wanted to offer a few random thoughts:

Why do they call it a life sentence. Its really a death sentence. Either way, they will die in prison. Its just that with the one, they aren't killed by the State.

It costs a lot more to execute someone than to confine them forever.

The death penalty has never been shown to have a deterrent effect. In fact, the murder rate is higher in states with the death penalty than in those without it.

For all the people who say someone should burn in hell, thats God's job. He doesn't need the help and may not like to be rushed.

A thousand people have been executed since 1973. 69 people who were on death row have been released as innocent in that same time frame.

An eye for an eye is all through the Bible, and is as much about avoiding excess punishment as it is a criminal justice equation. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

As far as using the Bible for guidance, keep in mind the the Bible required the state to execute a person:

for following another religion: Exodus 22:20
for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51
for proselytizing: Deuteronomy 13:1-10
for black magic: Exodus 22:18 .
for adultery: Leviticus 20:10
for incest: Leviticus 20:11
for temple prostitution: Leviticus 20:13
for bestiality: Leviticus 20:15 states: .
for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21
for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24.
for rape of an engaged woman: Deuteronomy 22:25
for prostitution Leviticus 21:9
for kidnapping: Exodus 21:16
for human sacrifice: Leviticus 20:2-5
for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17
for abusing one's parents: Exodus 21:15
for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29
for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21
for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16
for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2
for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge: Deuteronomy 17:12
for perjury: Deuteronomy 19:15-21
for accidentally killing a pregnant woman:
for being uncircumcised: Genesis 17:14
for Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread:Exodus 12:15
for Manufacturing anointing oil: Exodus 30:33
for Engaging in ritual animal sacrifices other than at the temple: Leviticus 17:1-9
for Consuming blood: Leviticus 17:10. This would include eating rare meat.
for Eating peace offerings while ritually unclean: Leviticus 7:20
for Waiting too long before consuming sacrifices: Leviticus 19:5-8
for Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating: Leviticus 20:18
for Going to the temple in an unclean state: Numbers 19:13
for teaching another religion: Deuteronomy 13:1-11
for being a prophet whose prophecy does not come true: Deuteronomy 18:22
for Gluttony and excessive drinking: Deuteronomy 21:20

Food for thought? just don't overindulge :)

FK

[Hugh Jarrod]

True Felicia it actually does cost more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison for life. This case however I think is different in that Tookie can run the crips from behind bars, yet not from beyond the grave.

[Baran]

True Felicia it actually does cost more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison for life. This case however I think is different in that Tookie can run the crips from behind bars, yet not from beyond the grave.

Indeed and don't forget: Tookie didn't have any respect at all for a human life. Now he has to pay. What they should do is put the show on pay per view. And make some money out of this.

[Hugh Jarrod]

I am late to this thread, but wanted to offer a few random thoughts:

Why do they call it a life sentence. Its really a death sentence. Either way, they will die in prison. Its just that with the one, they aren't killed by the State.

It costs a lot more to execute someone than to confine them forever.

The death penalty has never been shown to have a deterrent effect. In fact, the murder rate is higher in states with the death penalty than in those without it.

For all the people who say someone should burn in hell, thats God's job. He doesn't need the help and may not like to be rushed.

A thousand people have been executed since 1973. 69 people who were on death row have been released as innocent in that same time frame.

An eye for an eye is all through the Bible, and is as much about avoiding excess punishment as it is a criminal justice equation. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

As far as using the Bible for guidance, keep in mind the the Bible required the state to execute a person:

for following another religion: Exodus 22:20
for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51
for proselytizing: Deuteronomy 13:1-10
for black magic: Exodus 22:18 .
for adultery: Leviticus 20:10
for incest: Leviticus 20:11
for temple prostitution: Leviticus 20:13
for bestiality: Leviticus 20:15 states: .
for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21
for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24.
for rape of an engaged woman: Deuteronomy 22:25
for prostitution Leviticus 21:9
for kidnapping: Exodus 21:16
for human sacrifice: Leviticus 20:2-5
for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17
for abusing one's parents: Exodus 21:15
for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29
for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21
for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16
for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2
for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge: Deuteronomy 17:12
for perjury: Deuteronomy 19:15-21
for accidentally killing a pregnant woman:
for being uncircumcised: Genesis 17:14
for Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread:Exodus 12:15
for Manufacturing anointing oil: Exodus 30:33
for Engaging in ritual animal sacrifices other than at the temple: Leviticus 17:1-9
for Consuming blood: Leviticus 17:10. This would include eating rare meat.
for Eating peace offerings while ritually unclean: Leviticus 7:20
for Waiting too long before consuming sacrifices: Leviticus 19:5-8
for Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating: Leviticus 20:18
for Going to the temple in an unclean state: Numbers 19:13
for teaching another religion: Deuteronomy 13:1-11
for being a prophet whose prophecy does not come true: Deuteronomy 18:22
for Gluttony and excessive drinking: Deuteronomy 21:20

Food for thought? just don't overindulge :)

FK

What! No incest, excessive drinking, or abusing my parents? Punishment for accidently killing a pregnant woman, hell that one says accident in the title. Man that book sucks.

[Legend]

I dont see why b.e.t is gloring this guy there having a special called "sinner to saint" whats next a wayne willaims special or a jeffrey demmers one, i just hope the victums get there justice and tookie gets what he deserves.

[Legend]

It amazes me how guys like tookie and rueben hurricane carter can do multiple murders and get glorified!

[chefmike]

I dont see why b.e.t is gloring this guy there having a special called "sinner to saint" whats next a wayne willaims special or a jeffrey demmers one, i just hope the victums get there justice and tookie gets what he deserves.

Hey, Spiderman...yes, we know your previous identity...maybe you can bring this villain to justice ...save the "victums" and prevent them from "gloring" this guy....and doesn't that jeffrey "demmers" guy piss you off...

[chefmike]

Maybe his mommy left her crack stash out...

[Legend]

chef, 1112 posts and yet you come up with a fucking momma joke i laugh at you lameness.



Arianna

Defintion

1. Man beast

2.bitter TG lesbian (with a bad unibrow)

[scipio]

It amazes me how guys like tookie and rueben hurricane carter can do multiple murders and get glorified!

Rueben Carter was falsely tried...

He was arrested because he was black.

[Legend]

It amazes me how guys like tookie and rueben hurricane carter can do multiple murders and get glorified!




Just because you watch a fucking movie or listen to a dumb song by dylan doesnt mean you mean the whole situition, im not going to even get into a argument with you over this shit cause frankly i dont give a damn.

And how the fuck im i racist your just trying to start more shit agaisnt me notice how i mention that whiter then white jeffrey d. now dude be quiet and do more advertising.

[BlackAdder]

Bible....Choking...


Sometimes you really shouldnt be commenting on this stuff Legend....you venture a particularly ill informed opinion, expect to get lambasted by someone who is.



And if I was Kalina, who by all accounts is a decent girl, I would be embarrassed to be pictured in that photo.....She smilin but probably thing...."Oh great....."

[Legend]

I know his fucking case was well documented as you say and i know how it begins and end so dont recommend anything to me, and isnt killing 2 or more people consider a mass murder anyway i could care less. Ha i cant be leave you called be a racist becuase i dislike murderers shows your true motive.

I WISH BIG MOUTH KNOW IT ALLS OF YOUR STATUE EXCECUTED!

[Kramer]

Seanchai, I know you dont like Legend, but what did he say that was actually racist? I dont see it in all fairness. :)

[Legend]

That doesnt make me a fucking racist, i just hate murderers and their sympathizers like you. i can care less what color murderers are all should come to justice. Stop being a sympathizer and grow some balls man.

[jamans]

I say fry the bastard. There is no doupt that this guy has commited horrendous crimes. I hate the arguement people use "well, that does not bring the victims back". The whole point of it is this guy should be punished.....and it is more than apparant that he wants to live...as I am sure his victims did. Why not take from him what he took from his victims....

[jamans]

You fucking dipshit.
Go read a book - or even rent a movie - or listen to the song...Rubin Carter was arrested and prosecuted without evidence, which was eventually overturned when he was found to be innocent of the crimes. Under your law - and your so-called religions law, you would have had executed an innocent man?
ARSEHOLE!!
Retraction and apology for being a dumb, racist fuck?
seanchai

Rubin Carter has NEVER been declared innocent or otherwise exonerated by the courts. Carter was set free because of two alleged procedural errors, NOT because of new evidence.

I suggest you do more research other than what the movies tell you....

[GroobySteven]

You fucking dipshit.
Go read a book - or even rent a movie - or listen to the song...Rubin Carter was arrested and prosecuted without evidence, which was eventually overturned when he was found to be innocent of the crimes. Under your law - and your so-called religions law, you would have had executed an innocent man?
ARSEHOLE!!
Retraction and apology for being a dumb, racist fuck?
seanchai

Rubin Carter has NEVER been declared innocent or otherwise exonerated by the courts. Carter was set free because of two alleged procedural errors, NOT because of new evidence.

I suggest you do more research other than what the movies tell you....

Jamans
Thank you for bringing me back to reality and stopping my ire take direction. I'd read the books and of course seen the movie as well as reading about the massive errors and ommissions in the movie. What I had not done though was seek out alternative texts, something which I'm now doing on line and finding very interesting and illuminating.

I'd like to whole heartedly apologise to Legend - who despite being close to one of the most ignorant, least educated and most closed-minded persons I've came across - didn't deserve a lambast from someone who hadn't double checked his own facts, mis-conceptions and what I what I used to teach....the media lies.

Apologies to anyone else I may have inadvertendly offended who didn't speak up.
seanchai

[Felicia Katt]

I know his fucking case was well documented as you say and i know how it begins and end so dont recommend anything to me, and isnt killing 2 or more people consider a mass murder anyway i could care less. Ha i cant be leave you called be a racist becuase i dislike murderers shows your true motive.


Its apparent you haven't read any of that documentation. If you can't be bothered to read a book, at least watch the movie. If thats too much for you, read a movie review. or go here
http://web.archive.org/web/19991127214405/www.stanford.edu/~zdillon/story.html
or
http://www.biography.com/search/article.jsp?aid=9542248&search=

These are fairly short but comprehensive articles about the trial and the long appeals process. Ulitimately, the only eyewitnesses recanted their testimony, admitting they got favorable treatment for their own crimes, and cash, for testifying against Carter.


Carter was set free because of two alleged procedural errors, NOT because of new evidence

I did the research. The "alleged procdedural errors" so glibly discounted were the the failure of the prosecution to disclose the witnesses were bought and paid for, as well as a tape recording where one of the purported eyewitnesses told the police he was not even sure Carter was at the scene of the crime. They also managed to exclude every black juror from panel that ultimately decided on his guilt.

In the second appeal, the "alleged procedural errors" were characterized by a Federal court as follows:

The extensive record clearly demonstrates that the petitioners' convictions were predicated upon an appeal to racism rather than reason, and concealment rather than disclosure . . . . To permit convictions to stand which have as their foundation appeals to racial prejudice and the withholding of evidence critical to the defense is to commit a violation of the Constitution as heinous as the crimes for which these petitioners were tried and convicted

The Court found Carter's conviction was the result of racism. Continuing to cast him as guilty when the facts are to the contrary is just as suspect of that characterization.

FK

[Hugh Jarrod]

Kinda like Cliff Notes.

[iagodelgado]

No idea on this.

Just to say it is now making news on this side of the Atlantic, about 5th or 6th story of the day.

[Legend]

No idea on this.

Just to say it is now making news on this side of the Atlantic, about 5th or 6th story of the day.

He wont be making news on tuesday if you know what i mean.

[Legend]

I know his fucking case was well documented as you say and i know how it begins and end so dont recommend anything to me, and isnt killing 2 or more people consider a mass murder anyway i could care less. Ha i cant be leave you called be a racist becuase i dislike murderers shows your true motive.


Its apparent you haven't read any of that documentation. If you can't be bothered to read a book, at least watch the movie. If thats too much for you, read a movie review. or go here
http://web.archive.org/web/19991127214405/www.stanford.edu/~zdillon/story.html
or
http://www.biography.com/search/article.jsp?aid=9542248&search=

These are fairly short but comprehensive articles about the trial and the long appeals process. Ulitimately, the only eyewitnesses recanted their testimony, admitting they got favorable treatment for their own crimes, and cash, for testifying against Carter.


Carter was set free because of two alleged procedural errors, NOT because of new evidence

I did the research. The "alleged procdedural errors" so glibly discounted were the the failure of the prosecution to disclose the witnesses were bought and paid for, as well as a tape recording where one of the purported eyewitnesses told the police he was not even sure Carter was at the scene of the crime. They also managed to exclude every black juror from panel that ultimately decided on his guilt.

In the second appeal, the "alleged procedural errors" were characterized by a Federal court as follows:

The extensive record clearly demonstrates that the petitioners' convictions were predicated upon an appeal to racism rather than reason, and concealment rather than disclosure . . . . To permit convictions to stand which have as their foundation appeals to racial prejudice and the withholding of evidence critical to the defense is to commit a violation of the Constitution as heinous as the crimes for which these petitioners were tried and convicted

The Court found Carter's conviction was the result of racism. Continuing to cast him as guilty when the facts are to the contrary is just as suspect of that characterization.

FK

I admit , i was wrong about carter and shouldnt have mention him because of his innocents in the end and the whole thing of his case being built of racism is fucking wrong.

[JackHammer]

I read the first couple of pages from this thread, then skipped to the last one, so if I'm repeating anything anyone esle said, I apologize).

We may all be united in our love of all things t-girl, but when it comes to the "hot button' subjects we really are just like the rest of society.

Anyone know why hot button topoics (abortion, death-penalty, stem-cell research etc) never get solved...because if they did we'd have no need for politicians (let's face it, they're the ones that create and promote them). Actually the politicians are all practicing for life after politics...they're honing their skills at being sports comissioners! See how quick they got something done about the steroids issue.

As for me and the death penalty...well Legend, I hear what you're saying...but the eye for an eye approach has never solved anything as far as my readings have shown me, so I'm against it.

I'm not even going to touch the whole prison system issue (ok, just one phrase...profit through privatization, it does benefit a number of entities, financially, to have prisons built and have them populated to the hilt).

There's always two sides to every argument, and this one definitely has two distinct sides, will probably never be fully solved.

Oh...and the commandment Thou shalt not kill, goes for all killing (I bet legend is Pro-Life when it comes to fetuses, right...but then again, I suppose they never killed anyone (I know the comeback by heart.

[brickcitybrother]

To fan the flames ...


I say 'ghost his ass.'

Stanley Tookie Williams is pulling a game on the majority of the public. He's really a bitch that trying to save his own ass by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending to have one set of feelings (anti-gang message) and acting under the influence of another (refusing to cooperate with authorities about other gang activity).

If he is truly anti-gang, then he should have no problem in cooperating with the police about other murders that he is not implicated in. Yet, he refuses. I guess you know where his true allegience lies.

He wants to use sleight of hand to draw your attention to his activities regarding slowing gang killings... because failure to do so would allow you to see that it was his own actions that unleased this horrible plague (gang violence). He is 'responsible' only for the four murders his convicted of, or more considering the wave of death that the Crips and its rival Bloods (created first to 'protect' non-members from violence/robbery by the Crips) have visited upon neighborhoods across the country and beyond.

And yes, even his attempts to slow the violence is a palor trick. His 'Crips' are involved in more than just shootings - the drug trade, the robberies, etc. I cannot understand any woman that would support him, given the absolute objectifying that he continues to support within the gang culture that leads to the rapes of hundreds of young females (not to mention the ugly assaults that these gangs are known to commit against homosexual and transgender people).

And why call Mr. Williams a bitch? Because, if he is unwilling to 'turn' on his gang associates because of his 'pleadge' to them, then why should he not 'give his life to the gang' as he demanded so many of its members when he headed it. What better way to earn their respect then to demostrate that even after 20 years, the 'system' could not break you. But he passed on the opportunity to play but ends against the middle. He 'advocates' against the gangs while he still has visits with and makes calls to men who have known gang affiliation.

For all his work, he done little to defeat the gang plague. We should not look at his post-incaceration actions as accomplishments, rather we should note that he has not stopped what he started. He simply has not corrected a problem he created. That is failure.

I heard family members of the victims speak about him. I was most impressed by the brother of a victim who made it clear that he was against the death penalty. He stated that he offered to Mr. Williams to be the only family member of a victim to ask for clemency, on a single condition - that Mr. Williams agrees to serve LIFE in prision WITHOUT SEEKING PAROLE. He was turned down. That does not sound like a man fighting for his life - that sounds like a calculating individual seeking to have his cake and it too. Oh, that brother of the victim. His position is that Mr. Williams should then be put to death because the chance of him gaining freedom and the danger that would mean is too great a risk.

Oh for the race card players or those who question the 'system.' Are there horrible evil european/asian/hispanic/indian people that should be punished according to their crimes? I hear a resounding - YES! Then guess what - there are some bad black people too. Maybe murder, drug dealing, rape and robbery doesn't piss you off. For me it does. And while Mr. Williams was not convicted of all of them - he does admit to the drug dealing, rape and robbery in his own book. So perhas the angel wings he wishes to wear aren't so white.

As far as the system goes - yup its not where it should be. Yup, it is often manipulated to punish the poor (black and white). Yup those in charge are too often racist in either deed or thought. That is why the last hope is truly NOT with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. A denial of clemency by him does not close all avenues of appeal. Mr. Williams can still go to federal court and successfully press his case. He need only prove that he's innocent. So why is the media circus (feuled by his supporters and detractors alike) so focused on Gov. Schwarzenegger. Its simple very simple ... and I will quote Mr. Williams lead attorneyt explaining the situation:

"I'm not going to this hearing with hope. I'm going to this hearing frightened to death," defense attorney Peter Fleming Jr. said. "If we fail as counsel, a man dies."

Why is that?

Because as Mr. Fleming acknowledged, a successful Federal appeal requires proving Mr. Williams innocent. And to quote Mr. Fleming once again;

"[W]e're not in a position to do that."


No fat in this rant - just facts! :soapbox

[Kramer]

My prediction is: Big Arnie is gonna cave in to pressure and let him live! You heard it here first! 8)

[Legend]

My prediction is: Big Arnie is gonna cave in to pressure and let him live! You heard it here first! 8)

He is losing big time in the polls down there you never know, but really i dont think he will cave in.

[The Magic One]

Fuck Tookie. Man up and face your consequences. You kill you die. Thats the law of the land.

[NYCe]

This thread is amazing. Anyone who thinks this is just a porn board needs to read this and have a big cup of "shut the fuck up"

[tubgirl]

so, did this dude die yet?

[yourdaddy]

If they take him off death row, and put him in the general prison population, he'll probably get stabbed to death by a "Blood" member. To me, that's even better justice.

[chefmike]

If they take him off death row, and put him in the general prison population, he'll probably get stabbed to death by a "Blood" member. To me, that's even better justice.

Yeah, justice, I can dig it. It would be kinda like sending neocons and their apologists to Iraq. :lol:

[medic]

Speaking from a position witch has afforded me different views of society, both on the side of rendering aid to devistated familys, caring for the people accused of the outrageous actions, being a medical part of a special ops team that arrests them, hearing them say (fuck you I'll be out before you get home, or Dont go to sleep I have homies (sp)) really puts a negstive spin on you at times. BUT, when it comes to the question, can someone be rehabilitated the answer is a resounding SOMETIMES.

Several factors come into play when the question of rehab comes up. they are many and complex. There are very manipulative people on both sides of the equation. But In my experience the people who have contemplated and carried out these vicious crimes are the most likely not to be able to be rehabed.

Now lets look at Tookie. He started one of the most distructive gangs in history. Now how did he do this, well he brought in kids/adults on the pretense of being a big family. He managed to manipulate his followers to do his bidding for the good of the family. He may have had many of his followers kill other "gang" members for street corners or drug deals, extortion or name your favorite crime against others. Kinda sorta like the manipulative ways of Hitler (find a common point for everyone to belive in then exploit it). (flame on)

I do think that he has the ability to manipulate most every situation he is in, I think he should pay for his actions and that there is a place for the death penalty.

I also think that if it is a murder case that is beyond the doubt that the person committed the crime, (on video, Air tight dna etc) then justice should be swift (1 year or less). It should also be public, I do think that public punishment would be more of a deterance than the current sanitary way that it is carried out. Call me barbaric but there used to be invatations to hangings way back when. people would come from everywhere to watch justice being served. If you look at the number of poeple in prision during the 1800s the years serverd the number of capital crimes committed and people put to death you would find those numbers were a lot lower even when you adjust for the lower number of people incountry.

So yes I do believe that he should pay for his crime, The stars who are standing up for him point to the things he has done for the kids but skip over what he has orcastrated and even carried out himself. but it gets them in the spotlight.


MEDIC OR DITCH DOC What ever

[scipio]

Several good points are brought up in the previous post.

One is the swiftness of justice, or the idea that it should be swift (and fair). That hasn't been the case here, although I don't know if that should have any bearing on the punishment. It is a factor though.

The other is whether a crime is conclusively proven. I'm not saying for a moment that he is innocent, but he does claim that he is, and this (as far as I know) is not a case proven by DNA, video, or anything similarly irrefutable.

I can't quote exact statistics but I know that a number of people found guilty of murder and even on death row were subsequently found to be not guilty, and released. The law of averages would give us that at least some of those who have actually been executed were, in fact, innocent.

Once again that is not to say that this individual isn't guilty, even if it were not for these specific crimes (I can hear the outcry already).

Food for though, at least.

[Daebo]

The O.G who started rollin 60's with raymond washington ya'll know if they kill tookie there going to be trouble in the streets.

[Saintrose]

I'm not for the death penalty personally.
Maybe I can afford the luxury of saying this beacuse I have not lost a loved one to some senseless act of brutality, commited by some fiend.

Life without parole...is a better option. The inabililty to move freely and do as you please...is punishment enough.

Part of the way I feel about the death penalty is beacuse there have been too many instances where a people have been executed, only to be found innocent after the fact !
Watch the news and you see cases where a guy has been in jail for 10,15,20 years only to have the case overturned because a witness lied or was coerced.
A falsely convicted man can be released from jail....he CANNOT be raised from the dead !
For the sake of not executing another innocent man the death penalty should be banned nationwide !

[Legend]

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Tookie Williams.

Good Bye and good riddance too a cold blooded killer.