Wikileaks

[lisaparadise]

What does everyone think?personally i say we all put a bounty on there heads they dont deserve jail only death and a nice slow death,i hate rats run to brittain run to swedin ya have to stop sometimes i like to think america has guys like jason bourne whos sole job is to take assholes like this out surly we have snipers right?kill these pricks

[dgs925]

WTF are you talking about, seriously? I can't even tell what your point is.

I do know Wikileaks is great, the government shouldn't be doing all this shit they are ashamed of, and its great that it is being exposed. Knowing the truth is always good.

[Jericho]

Yep, kill all of the fukkers!
We can't have people running around telling the truth...It unpatriotic! :hide-1:

[NYBURBS]

What does everyone think?

I think I'm going to go donate some money to them. They are doing a great public service and I hope they keep it up.

[NYBURBS]

Yep, kill all of the fukkers!
We can't have people running around telling the truth...It unpatriotic! :hide-1:

lol well said

[lisaparadise]

WTF are you talking about, seriously? I can't even tell what your point is.

I do know Wikileaks is great, the government shouldn't be doing all this shit they are ashamed of, and its great that it is being exposed. Knowing the truth is always good.your a fucking moron,you cocksuckers would be the first ones crying if you got outted by your friends thats what rats do

[lisaparadise]

I think I'm going to go donate some money to them. They are doing a great public service and I hope they keep it up.ya all the retards pile on my thread get the fuck outta here assholes

[tslvr]

People that leak national secrets are committing treason and should punished to the full extent of the law.

[Caff_Racer]

Looks like another thread that should be in the "Politics and Religion" department... :whistle:

[NYBURBS]

People that leak national secrets are committing treason and should punished to the full extent of the law.

Article III §3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Good luck with the treason prosecution lol. Btw, what exactly constitutes a national secret? Better yet, what should constitute a national secret? These aren't weapon blue prints or information on plans to defend against an invasion. Rather, they're communications that show just how twisted our foreign policy truly is.


Looks like another thread that should be in the "Politics and Religion" department... :whistle:

Yea, it really should be moved there.

[lisaparadise]

people that leak national secrets are committing treason and should punished to the full extent of the law.and thats how it should be the little faggot in the army who leaked it should be hung.

[NYBURBS]

and thats how it should be the little faggot in the army who leaked it should be hung.

You're referring to Bradley Manning, and for any of the decent minded human beings on here that might want to help in his legal defense, you can go to this link and then click on the donate button:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/

[dgs925]

your a fucking moron,you cocksuckers would be the first ones crying if you got outted by your friends thats what rats do


Ahh, classic Lisa, resorting to ad-hominem attacks in absence of any real argument.

[dgs925]

Looks like another thread that should be in the "Politics and Religion" department... :whistle:

No, nothing goes on in there. Have you been to that board? Just a bunch of threads full of copy/paste news stories and youtube videos. Every damn thread is like that, a real desert of discourse, if you will. So if you want to actually talk about politics and religion you should do it here.

[trish]

The world suffers from puritanism. No not that kind of puritanism. The world suffers from purists; i.e. people in the grip of one simple memetic “principle.” One such “principle” claims all information should be available to all people. Let’s call it the “transparency principle.” The corollary is that no information should be classified or held back...the public needs to know. At first blush it’s a motto that has some appeal. But it is by no means self-evidently true. Indeed, a moment’s reflection will reveal that the transparency principle directly contradicts the “privacy principle” which also has considerable appeal. Unlike the folks at Wikileaks, I don’t subscribe to the unadulterated principle of transparency. In our diplomatic practices there is a necessary, if fuzzy, line demarcating the boundary between transparency and privacy; and though the line is fuzzy, Wikileaks crossed it. In their fervor, based on their hard-headed belief that no information should be classified, they published everything they had without scrutiny, without a clear understanding of the consequences and without concern ... their conscious assured by the purity of principle.

I do think that whistle-blowing is important and whistle-blowers need protection. But stealing classified information and publishing it without understanding it is not whistle-blowing.

[Coroner]

I agree with the points trish made but yet I absolutely support what they do. The world needs to know how decisions are being made, even if it´s still not the ultimate truth. Yes, WikiLeaks is handling these informations in a partially irresponsible way because they´re also commercial but still required.

[lisaparadise]

you're referring to bradley manning, and for any of the decent minded human beings on here that might want to help in his legal defense, you can go to this link and then click on the donate button:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/fuck off you fucking pathetic piece of shit

[NYBURBS]

fuck off you fucking pathetic piece of shit

I get a chuckle every time you try to attack me. I could respond in kind, but it's not really worth the time or effort.

[dgs925]

fuck off you fucking pathetic piece of shit


Stop holding back, let us know how you really feel.

[lisaparadise]

stop holding back, let us know how you really feel.roflmfao,i swear to god you guys are gonna give me grey hair damn it

[Coroner]

Damn, lisa, you gotta be careful with the hairspray. Do not breathe in too much of it because the damages can be long-termed. There´s no need for insulting people who share different views. Peace.

[lisaparadise]

damn, lisa, you gotta be careful with the hairspray. Do not breathe in too much of it because the damages can be long-termed. There´s no need for insulting people who share different views. Peace.oh,i geuss i didnt think i was being insulting lol my bad

[Caff_Racer]

No, nothing goes on in there. Have you been to that board? Just a bunch of threads full of copy/paste news stories and youtube videos. Every damn thread is like that, a real desert of discourse, if you will. So if you want to actually talk about politics and religion you should do it here.

Actually no, I haven't, mainly because I prefer discussing politics face-to-face than on an internet forum: there's less chance of having one's comments misconstrued. And usually when I read these politics/religion threads, I soon end up with a burning desire to knock a couple of heads together, which does nothing good to my blood pressure.

Oh well it looks as if I'll have to keep those blood pressure pills close to hand then... :hide-1:

[95racer]

I can't believe that guy still has a pulse. Find the building his is in and level it! Then hang the people who leaked the documents over here.

[GroobySteven]

I can't believe that guy still has a pulse. Find the building his is in and level it! Then hang the people who leaked the documents over here.

Why don't you move to N.Korea, their policies seem more in line with yours? China might be good for you also, although generally just imprisonment for this sort of thing.

[bte]

Releasing any classified materials without it being declassfied is against the law. I doubt the guy will be found of treason, but he will get sent to jail.

[NYBURBS]

What about Saudi Arabia? The Saudi monarchy is a horribly oppressive regime. But they're friendly to the west and we've made them stupid rich in the process.


Pause for a moment and reflect on that statement. It's our government's "behind the scenes" support for governments like that that have helped to create the legions of people that would see us all dead. I'm not naive enough to think some wouldn't look for other reasons, but the prime motivator for most has been our clandestine efforts to fuck with their society.



This fucker needs to be drained of all intel on this situation he can provide and then dragged out into the street and shot in the back of the head. End of list. Ok, ok no not really ROFL. Throw him in a dark hole and blast Lady Gaga 24/7.

Wow, pretty enlightened stance there :rolleyes:



And Bradley Manning? A traitor of the highest kind through and through. Benedict Arnold, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, Robert Hanssen and now Bradley Manning. That's the level of treason we're talking about here.

Yea because exposing our "diplomatic" shenanigans is absolutely the same as giving over info on how to build hydrogen bombs :screwy

[kyoJecours]

just because something is against the law doesn't make it 'wrong'... people can use their own minds to decide that. hope the dude gets off.

[african1]

Julian Assange is an A-hole. He's doing this shit for his own sake and to make himself famous. He is erratic and imperious. Saying to everyone: Look at me, I am poking my finger at America's power. All he does is undermining our diplomatic and military efforts. I'd understand if he was doing this during the lead-up to a war like in 2003, but not when the administration is sincerely trying to end this war.

He's indirectly helping Alqaeda and Iran and all those who hate the US. Also notice that he knows how to pick his fights. He's fighting the US because he knows we have principles and we'll never kidnap his ass and make him disappear. Why doesn't he do this to Russia or Iran or China. Why doesn't he leak docs about them. Well you know why?

[african1]

Just for clarity's sake, the guy I'm talking about is Bradley Manning, the Army Private who actually leaked the information. Not Julian Assange the head of WikiLeaks. :)

As a gay member of the Armed Forces, PFC Manning released those documents to take revenge from the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

[african1]

You're referring to Bradley Manning, and for any of the decent minded human beings on here that might want to help in his legal defense, you can go to this link and then click on the donate button:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/

FUCK HIM. :fu:

[african1]

Pause for a moment and reflect on that statement. It's our government's "behind the scenes" support for governments like that that have helped to create the legions of people that would see us all dead. I'm not naive enough to think some wouldn't look for other reasons, but the prime motivator for most has been our clandestine efforts to fuck with their society.



Wow, pretty enlightened stance there :rolleyes:



Yea because exposing our "diplomatic" shenanigans is absolutely the same as giving over info on how to build hydrogen bombs :screwy


Loved how you cherry picked few comments in Viper's response to make his argument invalid. Those were few personal rants amidst a very good assessment. Don't you see that people who help us around the world fight alqaeda and nuclear weapons proliferation do so sometimes in secret because of fear of retaliation.

For instance, answer his concerns about N.Korea and Yemen. Yemen is infested with terrorists. Their regime is so weak it can be toppled at any moment. And when they help us, they do so in secret. Our diplomacy have been undermined because everyone now will hold back out of fear of having their comments published one day on wikis.

fucking pathetic...

[lisaparadise]

Julian Assange is an A-hole. He's doing this shit for his own sake and to make himself famous. He is erratic and imperious. Saying to everyone: Look at me, I am poking my finger at America's power. All he does is undermining our diplomatic and military efforts. I'd understand if he was doing this during the lead-up to a war like in 2003, but not when the administration is sincerely trying to end this war.

He's indirectly helping Alqaeda and Iran and all those who hate the US. Also notice that he knows how to pick his fights. He's fighting the US because he knows we have principles and we'll never kidnap his ass and make him disappear. Why doesn't he do this to Russia or Iran or China. Why doesn't he leak docs about them. Well you know why?i hope the CIA puts a bullit in his head

[african1]

Julian Assange....

Also notice that he knows how to pick his fights. He's fighting the US because he knows we have principles and we'll never kidnap his ass and make him disappear. Why doesn't he do this to Russia or Iran or China. Why doesn't he leak docs about them. Well you know why?

Come to think about it, he would probably not done all of this during the apex of the Dick Cheney Administration. They would probably have found he had a Syrian ancestor and have sent him to Syria through the special rendition program. :mrgreen:

note a lot of files released date back to the previous administration.

[NYBURBS]

Loved how you cherry picked few comments in Viper's response to make his argument invalid. Those were few personal rants amidst a very good assessment. Don't you see that people who help us around the world fight alqaeda and nuclear weapons proliferation do so sometimes in secret because of fear of retaliation.

For instance, answer his concerns about N.Korea and Yemen. Yemen is infested with terrorists. Their regime is so weak it can be toppled at any moment. And when they help us, they do so in secret. Our diplomacy have been undermined because everyone now will hold back out of fear of having their comments published one day on wikis.

fucking pathetic...

First of all, I selected specific portions because otherwise I would be slamming a Wall O' Text onto the board.

Al Qaeda is a monster of our own making, one that came about via the clandestine efforts you, and those like you, are arguing we should keep away from the light of day. The government wanted to keep the Soviets out of Afghanistan and so they took pains to secretly supply and train that which now haunts us. So, you might want to rethink that particular portion of your argument.

We can sit here and rattle off countries and issues all day, but in the end it comes down to the fact that much of what we deal with today is either a direct or indirect result of our clandestine policies of the past. I don't want this perpetual cycle of interfering with countries, that are of little over-all importance to the vast majority of Americans, to continue, and it can only be stopped if it is exposed.

Declaring something as "vital" (thus marking it classified) does not necessarily make it so in reality. There are some things that would fit into that category, weapons designs, defense weaknesses, encryption codes, etc. Most of what was released is classified only because the government knows that it would not be accepted by a large number of Americans if it were made public.

There is a distinct dichotomy between the public persona that the US tries to put on (while handing out the Kool-Aid) and the behind-the-scenes policies that it really pursues. A Supreme Court justice once wrote that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant," well a whole shit load of sunshine just got shined down on our gov't.

[Stavros]

Lisa is arguing for the principle of privacy which for diplomats is essential; in fact there isn't really anything shocking in the blizzard of material we are inundated with, is anyone surprised that so many states fear Iran? That even the Chinese are fed up with North Korea? What I want is a photo of that Ukrainian blonde who goes round with that 'strange' Mr Gadafy -I wonder, does she pack something other than a Kalashnikov in her trunk? Lisa (as a voluptuous blonde with a Ukrainian accent) over to you...

[african1]

Lisa is arguing for the principle of privacy which for diplomats is essential; in fact there isn't really anything shocking in the blizzard of material we are inundated with, is anyone surprised that so many states fear Iran? That even the Chinese are fed up with North Korea? What I want is a photo of that Ukrainian blonde who goes round with that 'strange' Mr Gadafy -I wonder, does she pack something other than a Kalashnikov in her trunk? Lisa (as a voluptuous blonde with a Ukrainian accent) over to you...


Here you go. She looks Mexican to me. Looks like Daniella's Foxxx mother.

http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/article-1307344-0af75aca000005dc-191_468x408.jpg

[scroller]

Definitely a big supporter of what Wikileaks, Assange, and Manning have done. The U.S. has too many secret military actions/torture centers around the world, and some of that needs to be dealt with.

One tiny example: we've been bombing Yemen in secret, with the head of Yemen claiming it by his own forces (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/8166610/WikiLeaks-Yemen-covered-up-US-drone-strikes.html). If some folks have such a hard-on for violence, at least man up when you're doing it. Wikileaks is just making publicly available government documents others forwarded to them, not anyone's personal private information.

It's sort of like how the Saudi King thinks he can jawbone the U.S. into doing his dirty work for him. Foreigners clearly think Americans are so stupid they can tell us what to do, and we actually jump on cue every time.

[african1]

First of all, I selected specific portions because otherwise I would be slamming a Wall O' Text onto the board.

Al Qaeda is a monster of our own making, one that came about via the clandestine efforts you, and those like you, are arguing we should keep away from the light of day. The government wanted to keep the Soviets out of Afghanistan and so they took pains to secretly supply and train that which now haunts us. So, you might want to rethink that particular portion of your argument.

We can sit here and rattle off countries and issues all day, but in the end it comes down to the fact that much of what we deal with today is either a direct or indirect result of our clandestine policies of the past. I don't want this perpetual cycle of interfering with countries, that are of little over-all importance to the vast majority of Americans, to continue, and it can only be stopped if it is exposed.

Declaring something as "vital" (thus marking it classified) does not necessarily make it so in reality. There are some things that would fit into that category, weapons designs, defense weaknesses, encryption codes, etc. Most of what was released is classified only because the government knows that it would not be accepted by a large number of Americans if it were made public.

There is a distinct dichotomy between the public persona that the US tries to put on (while handing out the Kool-Aid) and the behind-the-scenes policies that it really pursues. A Supreme Court justice once wrote that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant," well a whole shit load of sunshine just got shined down on our gov't.

I agree with some of your points but leaking secret/confidential information to the World is not the way to go about this.

I'll tell you that solving the Palestinian issue will stop 70% of the hatred we encounter worldwide. Instead of letting the American Chrisitan right wing and the Jewish Israeli one hi-jack the policies of both allies, and build more settlements, we should solve that problem ASAP.

[lisaparadise]

lisa is arguing for the principle of privacy which for diplomats is essential; in fact there isn't really anything shocking in the blizzard of material we are inundated with, is anyone surprised that so many states fear iran? That even the chinese are fed up with north korea? What i want is a photo of that ukrainian blonde who goes round with that 'strange' mr gadafy -i wonder, does she pack something other than a kalashnikov in her trunk? Lisa (as a voluptuous blonde with a ukrainian accent) over to you...oh your good lol send me some pix damn it

[lisaparadise]

definitely a big supporter of what wikileaks, assange, and manning have done. The u.s. Has too many secret military actions/torture centers around the world, and some of that needs to be dealt with.

One tiny example: We've been bombing yemen in secret, with the head of yemen claiming it by his own forces (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/8166610/wikileaks-yemen-covered-up-us-drone-strikes.html). If some folks have such a hard-on for violence, at least man up when you're doing it. Wikileaks is just making publicly available government documents others forwarded to them, not anyone's personal private information.

It's sort of like how the saudi king thinks he can jawbone the u.s. Into doing his dirty work for him. Foreigners clearly think americans are so stupid they can tell us what to do, and we actually jump on cue every time.its assholes like you that give americans a bad name go back to wherever it is you came from cause you cant be american

[NYBURBS]

I agree with some of your points but leaking secret/confidential information to the World is not the way to go about this.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree there.



I'll tell you that solving the Palestinian issue will stop 70% of the hatred we encounter worldwide. Instead of letting the American Chrisitan right wing and the Jewish Israeli one hi-jack the policies of both allies, and build more settlements, we should solve that problem ASAP.

The Palestinian debacle is a source of great contention, and I'm no fan of our policies there, but solving that would not remedy many of the other transgressions we have secretly committed. Also, while the Israelis have much to answer for, the Arabs basically screwed over the Palestinians in 1948, and have continued to do so over the past 60 years. I'm sure there are diplomatic cables dealing with this issue, and hopefully they will get some exposure.

[Ben]

Exactly.... We should punish people who EXPOSE crimes. And not the people who commit the crimes.
Take, say, the economic crash. The people that caused the crash -- John Paulson, who made $3.7 billion betting against the sub-prime market, and others -- are rewarded, are bailed out.
Ya know, the bailing out of the banks.
Now that goes against capitalist orthodoxy... in the sense that when the lender lends he -- or she -- assumes the risk. That didn't happen. The taxpayers, or tax-suckers, handed the banks trillions of dollars. Ya know, TOO BIG TOO FAIL -- ha! ha!
So, the people who commit crimes are rewarded. And those who EXPOSE crimes are punished. It's understandable in a state-capitalist polyarchy....
And, lastly, quoting that left-leaning loony (kidding, of course) Noam Chomsky:
"I think we should pay attention to what we learned from the leaks. What we learned, for example, is the kinds of things I’ve said. Perhaps the most dramatic revelation, or mention, is the bitter hatred of democracy that is revealed both by the U.S. Government – Hillary Clinton, others – and also by the diplomatic service.To tell the world– well, they’re talking to each other- to pretend to each other that the Arab world regards Iran as the major threat and wants the U.S. to bomb Iran, is extremely revealing, when they know that approximately 80% of Arab opinion regards the U.S. and Israel as the major threat, 10% regard Iran as the major threat, and a majority, 57%, think the region would be better off with Iranian nuclear weapons as a kind of deterrent. That is does not even enter. All that enters is what they claim has been said by Arab dictators – brutal Arab dictators. That is what counts.
How representative this is of what they say, we don’t know, because we do not know what the filtering is. But that’s a minor point. But the major point is that the population is irrelevant. All that matters is the opinions of the dictators that we support. If they were to back us, that is the Arab world. That is a very revealing picture of the mentality of U.S. political leadership and, presumably, the lead opinion, judging by the commentary that’s appeared here, that’s the way it has been presented in the press as well. It does not matter what the Arabs believe."

[JoePitt]

First of all, I selected specific portions because otherwise I would be slamming a Wall O' Text onto the board.

Al Qaeda is a monster of our own making, one that came about via the clandestine efforts you, and those like you, are arguing we should keep away from the light of day. The government wanted to keep the Soviets out of Afghanistan and so they took pains to secretly supply and train that which now haunts us. So, you might want to rethink that particular portion of your argument.

We can sit here and rattle off countries and issues all day, but in the end it comes down to the fact that much of what we deal with today is either a direct or indirect result of our clandestine policies of the past. I don't want this perpetual cycle of interfering with countries, that are of little over-all importance to the vast majority of Americans, to continue, and it can only be stopped if it is exposed.

Declaring something as "vital" (thus marking it classified) does not necessarily make it so in reality. There are some things that would fit into that category, weapons designs, defense weaknesses, encryption codes, etc. Most of what was released is classified only because the government knows that it would not be accepted by a large number of Americans if it were made public.

There is a distinct dichotomy between the public persona that the US tries to put on (while handing out the Kool-Aid) and the behind-the-scenes policies that it really pursues. A Supreme Court justice once wrote that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant," well a whole shit load of sunshine just got shined down on our gov't.

How is any of that any different for any other country in the world? Do you seriously believe Chinese citizens know every dirty trick their government plays? Why do you think that the US has to play on such an inequitable playing field? Why should we be held to this impossible standard of transparency when NOONE else is?

While I won't go to the extreme of some of the other posters, the petulant child who stole those files should spend the rest of his sad, sorry life in prison.

BTW, the big mistake with Afghanistan wasn't arming the Taliban, it was the complete abandonment of their country afterwards. If we had just spent a fraction of the money we gave them in weaponry on infrastructure and schools, I believe we wouldn't be there today. Like they said in Charlie Wilson's War, we fucked up the endgame.

I also love how you conveniently ignore Trish's well reasoned arguments.

[Dino Velvet]

Here you go. She looks Mexican to me. Looks like Daniella's Foxxx mother.

http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/article-1307344-0af75aca000005dc-191_468x408.jpg

I feel bad for any broad that has to sleep with Gaddafi. Dude looks worse than Mickey Rourke.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00571/Gaddafi_03_571468a.jpg

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Premiere+Fox+Searchlight+Pictures+Wrestler+X7WoMVZ n7hRl.jpg

[fred41]

The world suffers from puritanism. No not that kind of puritanism. The world suffers from purists; i.e. people in the grip of one simple memetic “principle.” One such “principle” claims all information should be available to all people. Let’s call it the “transparency principle.” The corollary is that no information should be classified or held back...the public needs to know. At first blush it’s a motto that has some appeal. But it is by no means self-evidently true. Indeed, a moment’s reflection will reveal that the transparency principle directly contradicts the “privacy principle” which also has considerable appeal. Unlike the folks at Wikileaks, I don’t subscribe to the unadulterated principle of transparency. In our diplomatic practices there is a necessary, if fuzzy, line demarcating the boundary between transparency and privacy; and though the line is fuzzy, Wikileaks crossed it. In their fervor, based on their hard-headed belief that no information should be classified, they published everything they had without scrutiny, without a clear understanding of the consequences and without concern ... their conscious assured by the purity of principle.

I do think that whistle-blowing is important and whistle-blowers need protection. But stealing classified information and publishing it without understanding it is not whistle-blowing.

Very well put.

....agree with most of Viper 600 point's too but I don't wanna copy & paste everything...as far as exposing previous dealings with Afghanistan during their invasion by the USSR..that's already old news to most people who ever picked up a newspaper.

So far, it seems the the private committed a crime against his country and he should be punished for it (if indeed it turns out the information was classified)...no matter how much getting away with it gives boners to people that hate the US.

...so far from what I read...the Diplomatic info makes the USA look a lot better than people want to admit...

...on the other hand, the ease with which it was lifted shows that there are some real embarrassing security holes in the manner in which we handle our documents.

[Cuchulain]

You're referring to Bradley Manning, and for any of the decent minded human beings on here that might want to help in his legal defense, you can go to this link and then click on the donate button:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/

I sent a donation. I saw GOP Congressman Peter King on tv today comparing Wikileaks to Daniel Ellsburg's release of the Pentagon Papers. Ok, I'll buy that. Of course King thought that was a bad thing. I disagree. By releasing the Pentagon Papers, Ellsburg exposed Nixon's crimes in Laos and Cambodia and thereby helped to end that God-awful war.

When our government commits illegal acts, it needs to be exposed. Does every other govt do it? Sure. Are these dirty tricks sometimes the lesser evil? I'm sure they are. Funny thing though - power corrupts, and as the saying goes "sunshine is the best disinfectant". When left to it's own devices, governments tend to keep way too many secrets. It's our duty as citizens to try to rein in the worst of the excesses. Whether in government or the private sector, whistleblowers are a good thing.

Let me ask this - how many of those who are outraged by the Wiki disclosures felt that same outrage when Valerie Plame was outed and her entire CIA team was put at risk? She wasn't doing anything illegal. She was exposed by her own govt for revenge.

[Ben]

From the civil libertarian Glenn Greenwald: "The WikiLeaks disclosure has revealed not only numerous government secrets, but also the driving mentality of major factions in our political and media class. Simply put, there are few countries in the world with citizenries and especially media outlets more devoted to serving, protecting and venerating government authorities than the U.S."

He's a blogger at Salon:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/30/wikileaks/index.html

[Ben]

Obama’s War on Whistleblowers

By Scott Horton (http://www.harpers.org/subjects/ScottHorton)
As a young lawyer, Obama represented a whistleblower (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003364.html); as a presidential candidate, he pledged to “strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government.” But as president, Obama has unleashed the most aggressive assault on whistleblowers Washington has ever seen—surpassing even George W. Bush. The latest example comes in a remarkable prosecution of Steven Kim, a well-known scholar of North Korea’s nuclear program.
Like most area experts at the top of the game, Kim does consulting for the State Department. He works for Lawrence Livermore Labs and was on secondment to the State Department at the time of the events in question. Now, however, Kim finds himself under indictment by the Justice Department. His crime? He spoke to Fox News about how the North Koreans were likely to react to proposed sanction measures. Former prosecutor and Johns Hopkins professor Ruth Wedgwood (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/27/steven-kim-state-department-contractor-charged-leak_n_697734.html) says that the Fox News report “contains completely unremarkable observations about what a country would do if it was sanctioned for its poor behavior. These kinds of observations were well known to anyone paying attention to public sources and ought not be the basis for making someone a federal felon.” I couldn’t agree more.
Assistant Attorney General David Kris brought the charges. The Kim prosecution is portrayed by him as a “warning to anyone who is entrusted with sensitive national security information and would consider compromising it.” To prohibit discussing such “sensitive” information is effectively to censor public debate about vital facts relating to international affairs and possibly to war. As Kris and his friends would have it, we’re supposed to be kept ignorant while the national-security state cares for us all. It’s also noteworthy that the Obama Justice Department gets worked up when the “leaks” benefit media with a critical attitude towards the administration, Fox News.

[onmyknees]

What does everyone think?personally i say we all put a bounty on there heads they dont deserve jail only death and a nice slow death,i hate rats run to brittain run to swedin ya have to stop sometimes i like to think america has guys like jason bourne whos sole job is to take assholes like this out surly we have snipers right?kill these pricks

Ya Know Lisa....I thought the exact same thing. Why aren't we waking up to find this dude Assange found in an alley with a small caliber bullet in his temple? You know the Russians wouldn't fuck around with this ass hole. This guy would sit down for a fine meal in an upscale Swedish restaurant, and then be clasping his throat as he took his last breath from the poison he just swallowed. We seem so powerless against one individual who obviously doesn't have our best interest in mind. I will be interesting to find out the relationship between Assange and Pvt.. Manning, who should be executed after his court martial, but of course that will never happen. For those who maintain this is ultimately a good thing because of some foolish notion that sunshine is the best disinfectant, there are hundreds of thousands of pages of material, and if just one sentence results in the death of a US serviceman, or CIA agent, then you should occupy the grave right next to that dead hero !
I hesitate to turn this into a political discussion, but I do find irony ( as I usually do) with the reaction of officials and bureaucrats in Washington. Remember when Richard Armitage unwittingly passed the name "Valerie Plame" to several political operatives? At the time, Ms. Plame was employed by the CIA, but I still have doubts of her covert status..nevertheless her name should not have been leaked, but it was...My Gawd you would thought the Iranians had just unlocked our nuclear arsenal codes and were detonating our missiles . In fact..they made movies about it and Scooter Libby was convicted of misleading a grand jury. The NY Times and Washinton Post humped the story for months.Doesn't seem to be the same level of outrage from the NY Times.... But I digress..........The larger question of course is how could this have happened that a Private had access to such sensitive documents. I say let the heads roll !!!!!!!!! Slate magazine has an article today offering the opinion that this is so serious ,Hillary Clinton may ultimately have to resign.

[lisaparadise]

ya know lisa....i thought the exact same thing. Why aren't we waking up to find this dude assange found in an alley with a small caliber bullet in his temple? You know the russians wouldn't fuck around with this ass hole. This guy would sit down for a fine meal in an upscale swedish restaurant, and then be clasping his throat as he took his last breath from the poison he just swallowed. We seem so powerless against one individual who obviously doesn't have our best interest in mind. I will be interesting to find out the relationship between assange and pvt.. Manning, who should be executed after his court martial, but of course that will never happen. For those who maintain this is ultimately a good thing because of some foolish notion that sunshine is the best disinfectant, there are hundreds of thousands of pages of material, and if just one sentence results in the death of a us serviceman, or cia agent, then you should occupy the grave right next to that dead hero !
i hesitate to turn this into a political discussion, but i do find irony ( as i usually do) with the reaction of officials and bureaucrats in washington. Remember when richard armitage unwittingly passed the name "valerie plame" to several political operatives? At the time, ms. Plame was employed by the cia, but i still have doubts of her covert status..nevertheless her name should not have been leaked, but it was...my gawd you would thought the iranians had just unlocked our nuclear arsenal codes and were detonating our missiles . In fact..they made movies about it and scooter libby was convicted of misleading a grand jury. The ny times and washinton post humped the story for months.doesn't seem to be the same level of outrage from the ny times.... But i digress..........the larger question of course is how could this have happened that a private had access to such sensitive documents. I say let the heads roll !!!!!!!!! Slate magazine has an article today offering the opinion that this is so serious ,hillary clinton may ultimately have to resign. oh good post america honestly isnt tough compared to most coutries there actually pretty wimpy russia germany brittan etc would have him on there hitlist secretly of course afterall special forces are there to do a job and taking out this prick should be pretty easy i mean the emerican government seems to have no problems killing there own presidents and vice presidents but they aernt good enough to take out bin laden,castro or anyother idiot who wants to do harm westerners pretty sad if ya ask me

[NYBURBS]

How is any of that any different for any other country in the world? Do you seriously believe Chinese citizens know every dirty trick their government plays? Why do you think that the US has to play on such an inequitable playing field? Why should we be held to this impossible standard of transparency when NOONE else is?

I neither reside in nor am I a citizen of China; however, I am a citizen of the United States and I do care about what my government does in the name of the "American Public." There are countries that as a matter of routine policy suppress the media and jail/torture/execute dissenters; that in some ways creates an uneven playing field too, but it doesn't mean I think we should adopt those policies. In other words, keep your own house clean before digging for shit elsewhere.




BTW, the big mistake with Afghanistan wasn't arming the Taliban, it was the complete abandonment of their country afterwards. If we had just spent a fraction of the money we gave them in weaponry on infrastructure and schools, I believe we wouldn't be there today. Like they said in Charlie Wilson's War, we fucked up the endgame.

No, the big mistake is thinking that we need to intervene in every God forsaken place on this planet in the name of whatever flavor of the month crusade we happen to be on.



I also love how you conveniently ignore Trish's well reasoned arguments.

It's not a matter of ignoring her post, I just didn't feel a need to respond to it personally. I respect Trish, but I generally disagree with much of what she has to say. Here she seems to advocate that the government has some inherent right to privacy, but that is the same government that intercepts every electronic communication we make; it's also the same government that argues to weaken personal privacy rights on a regular basis. So you'll have to pardon me if I treat her position about a governmental right to privacy with a great degree of skepticism.


I sent a donation.

Thank you :wink:

[lisaparadise]

I neither reside in nor am I a citizen of China; however, I am a citizen of the United States and I do care about what my government does in the name of the "American Public." your so full of shit if you cared about your country then you would be mad as hell that one of your countrymen embarraced your so called great nation and put innocent lives in danger and for what?you think its ok to publish national security private conversations thats none of our concern dude your pathetic weak and miss informed typical american idiot

[NYBURBS]

your so full of shit if you cared about your country then you would be mad as hell that one of your countrymen embarraced your so called great nation and put innocent lives in danger and for what?you think its ok to publish national security private conversations thats none of our concern dude your pathetic weak and miss informed typical american idiot

If you're going to insult me then first go back and finish elementary school. Your postings prove that you're not only hateful, but that you're also borderline illiterate.

[lisaparadise]

If you're going to insult me then first go back and finish elementary school. Your postings prove that you're not only hateful, but that you're also borderline illiterate.im guessing its from reading your stupid and pathetic posts now fuck right off you american motherfuckin moron

[bulldog]

They are attempting to do good, yet some of the material they are releasing does infinitely more harm than good, and they neglect to take that into consideration, when it comes to diplomatic situations, leave it alone, we are all already on edge as it is, why rock the fucking boat?

[dgs925]

If you're going to insult me then first go back and finish elementary school. Your postings prove that you're not only hateful, but that you're also borderline illiterate.
I finally get to use one of those annoying animated gifs: :iagree:

[lisaparadise]

If you're going to insult me then first go back and finish elementary school. Your postings prove that you're not only hateful, but that you're also borderline illiterate.you havent earned the right to call yourself an american period.ya think your so cool aiding rebels whos only idealism is to bring world hate they dont care about the truth nor freedom of the press and niether do people like you .tell me is that what you call patriatism? i guess the difference between you and i is i live in a country who is peacefull and respectfull but im sure the word respect isnt in you vocabulary now is it?

[onmyknees]

First of all, I selected specific portions because otherwise I would be slamming a Wall O' Text onto the board.

Al Qaeda is a monster of our own making, one that came about via the clandestine efforts you, and those like you, are arguing we should keep away from the light of day. The government wanted to keep the Soviets out of Afghanistan and so they took pains to secretly supply and train that which now haunts us. So, you might want to rethink that particular portion of your argument.

We can sit here and rattle off countries and issues all day, but in the end it comes down to the fact that much of what we deal with today is either a direct or indirect result of our clandestine policies of the past. I don't want this perpetual cycle of interfering with countries, that are of little over-all importance to the vast majority of Americans, to continue, and it can only be stopped if it is exposed.

Declaring something as "vital" (thus marking it classified) does not necessarily make it so in reality. There are some things that would fit into that category, weapons designs, defense weaknesses, encryption codes, etc. Most of what was released is classified only because the government knows that it would not be accepted by a large number of Americans if it were made public.

There is a distinct dichotomy between the public persona that the US tries to put on (while handing out the Kool-Aid) and the behind-the-scenes policies that it really pursues. A Supreme Court justice once wrote that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant," well a whole shit load of sunshine just got shined down on our gov't.

Burbs....I almost always read your posts and respect your opinions, ( not to be confused with agreeing with them) so having said that...with all due respect...I'm just not feelin' where you're coming from on this. You sound like a 20 year old college sophmore in Berkeley circa 1970. Young, idealistic, yet hopelessly naive about the dangerous, deadly world around us.

Yes we've made choices in Afghanistan in the late 70's with the respect to the Mujahideen. We entrust our government to make decisions that are ultimately in it's citizens best interest. That's democracy. Have we always been on the "Just" side? ...absolutely not. As you must know, after the Soviet pull out the Mujahideen essentially fought each other in a civil war. Here's an angle regarding our involvement you may not have thought of...because of the heavy toll and loss of life inflicted by US backed Afghani rebels on the Soviet Army, the discontent among the Soviet population grew along with a deeper distrust of their communist leaders. The question becomes...how much did that defeat in Afghanistan play in the ultimate collapse of the USSR ? My point is...it's not always as cut and dried between the guys in the white hats and the black hats as you would have us believe.

The fact that this twink, Assange claims he's doing this in order to prevent unjust wars, is so self serving it's actually revolting. The world is not as many of us wish it were....filled with citizens and governments brimming with morality and with malice towards none. If it were, your points would be well

[AmyDaly]

wiki leaks access is now blocked in the US.

Use a proxy outside the us to view it : )

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.wikileaks.org

[lisaparadise]

wiki leaks access is now blocked in the US.

Use a proxy outside the us to view it : )

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.wikileaks.orgyour pathetic

[african1]

wiki leaks access is now blocked in the US.

Use a proxy outside the us to view it : )

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.wikileaks.org

just hit the refresh button. I can still access it.

It's not the US citizens we need to shield off this data, but the non-American citizenry. Although enemies may still reside amidst us.

[NYBURBS]

Burbs....I almost always read your posts and respect your opinions, ( not to be confused with agreeing with them) so having said that...with all due respect...I'm just not feelin' where you're coming from on this. You sound like a 20 year old college sophmore in Berkeley circa 1970. Young, idealistic, yet hopelessly naive about the dangerous, deadly world around us.

Yes we've made choices in Afghanistan in the late 70's with the respect to the Mujahideen. We entrust our government to make decisions that are ultimately in it's citizens best interest. That's democracy. Have we always been on the "Just" side? ...absolutely not. As you must know, after the Soviet pull out the Mujahideen essentially fought each other in a civil war. Here's an angle regarding our involvement you may not have thought of...because of the heavy toll and loss of life inflicted by US backed Afghani rebels on the Soviet Army, the discontent among the Soviet population grew along with a deeper distrust of their communist leaders. The question becomes...how much did that defeat in Afghanistan play in the ultimate collapse of the USSR ? My point is...it's not always as cut and dried between the guys in the white hats and the black hats as you would have us believe.

The fact that this twink, Assange claims he's doing this in order to prevent unjust wars, is so self serving it's actually revolting. The world is not as many of us wish it were....filled with citizens and governments brimming with morality and with malice towards none. If it were, your points would be well

Well, my view is shaped by my own experiences, which includes military service and law enforcement. I've seen first hand the the tendency of government officials to manipulate information in order to better suit their particular agenda.

I'm also aware of history (though not as well as I perhaps should be), and our history is filled with instances of abuse both in foreign and domestic policy. So it's not so much being naive, I realize that there are indeed some real boogey men in the world, as much as it is a distrust of the political elite. I would rather have instances of semi-damaging exposure then total secrecy. The former brings about additional checks on the government, while the latter only encourages abuse.

PS- Thanks for the kind words. It's cool to disagree, just so long as people hear each other out.

[Paladin]

People that leak national secrets are committing treason and should punished to the full extent of the law.

Wikileaks is not a US operation. It's not bound by us laws as long as they don't operate here.

Now that poor SOB army private - if this was actually a declared war we are in, he'd be put to death.

As far a julian asshole is concerned, to hell with him, but we don't have a recourse as long as he is not here.

If a US paper / media activity publishes these things - they'll get hammered.

But really, hilary must be fuming worse than the bill / monica escapades over all this.

[kieron]

I'm glad to not be in america, I AM glad that Wikileaks exists and I believe that the charges against Assange for sex crimes are a smear campaign from the US Gov't.

I did find out from the most recent leak that the US has been spying on New Zealanders, now to the US Gov't I say: GET THE FUCK OUT OF AUSTRALASIA (Australia and New Zealand) and stop trying to run our business for your personal gain!!!!

Sorry for the outburst, I'm angry at the US Gov't for all its bullshit and hypocrisy.

[dderek123]

The world suffers from puritanism. No not that kind of puritanism. The world suffers from purists; i.e. people in the grip of one simple memetic “principle.” One such “principle” claims all information should be available to all people. Let’s call it the “transparency principle.” The corollary is that no information should be classified or held back...the public needs to know. At first blush it’s a motto that has some appeal. But it is by no means self-evidently true. Indeed, a moment’s reflection will reveal that the transparency principle directly contradicts the “privacy principle” which also has considerable appeal. Unlike the folks at Wikileaks, I don’t subscribe to the unadulterated principle of transparency. In our diplomatic practices there is a necessary, if fuzzy, line demarcating the boundary between transparency and privacy; and though the line is fuzzy, Wikileaks crossed it. In their fervor, based on their hard-headed belief that no information should be classified, they published everything they had without scrutiny, without a clear understanding of the consequences and without concern ... their conscious assured by the purity of principle.

I do think that whistle-blowing is important and whistle-blowers need protection. But stealing classified information and publishing it without understanding it is not whistle-blowing.

I heart you trish.

[phobun]

As a gay member of the Armed Forces, PFC Manning released those documents to take revenge from the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.


Bradley Manning clearly has gender identity issues. His sexual orientation, "gay" as you put it, is not the cause of his concern.

http://boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html

[giovanni_hotel]

IMO Assange will either be dead or arrested by Interpol before Wikileaks can do their next big info drop, supposedly internal documents from a huge American investment bank that will allow the SEC and U.S. Justice Department to pursue a vast criminal conspiracy case against one of the most powerful financial entities in the country.

[lisaparadise]

IMO Assange will either be dead or arrested by Interpol before Wikileaks can do their next big info drop, supposedly internal documents from a huge American investment bank that will allow the SEC and U.S. Justice Department to pursue a vast criminal conspiracy case against one of the most powerful financial entities in the country.i dont think interpol will get him before the u.s. secret service does obama and bush do not want this coming out period the only message that could be sent is the death of assange cant wait to see cnn break the story.

[Stavros]

Whatever you think of Julian Assange, suggesting he might be or even ought to meet the ultimate date is tasteless and possibly illegal. He can't be accused of treason in the USA as he is not a citizen of the USA. He doesnt work alone anyway, and most of what he has sponsored on Wikileaks is embarrassing but not much more than that. The real political issues that need to be debated openly are now being sidetracked by this froth of diplospeak; we need a sound policy to effect the transition from hydrocarbons to alternative sources of energy; we need to find a way to unravel the dispute between Israel and the Palestinians that is just for both sides; and so on and so forth. I dont care if Putin is Alpha Dog or Gordon Brown Mr Bean, the real issues don't go away because of this stuff.

[GroobySteven]

i dont think interpol will get him before the u.s. secret service does obama and bush do not want this coming out period the only message that could be sent is the death of assange cant wait to see cnn break the story.

Jeez you wish death on someone for this?
How is it any different from a newpaper or TV breaking news on something?

[Jericho]

Could get interesting if they did whack him, and the insurance files were unlocked. :whistle:


Could US military take Wikileaks offline?

As Wikileaks continues to haemorrhage secrets that America would like to keep buried, there has been growing anger amongst Washington hawks asking why the world’s most powerful military cannot employ some of its considerable might to take the whistle-blowing website out.

Former vice president candidate Sarah Palin led the charge today calling on the US military to hunt Julian Assange “with the same urgency we pursue al-Qa'ida and Taliban leaders.” Although most US politicians have avoided advocating the assassination of Wikileaks’ founder, many have begun calling for cyber attacks on his website.

But taking down well protected cyber entity like Wikileaks is not as simple as bombing a runway or landing marines on a beachhead.

This week Wikileaks has been hit by two denial of service attacks (DDOS), a relatively common cyber assault which temporarily disables a website by flooding it with requests for information.

The first assault began on Sunday evening, just hours before the State Department cables were meant to go online. A lone US hacker who goes by the name of “Jester” claimed responsibility for the attack. There is little way of verifying that claim but Jester – who accused Wikileaks of “endangering the lives of our troops and other assets” – has launched similar sized attacks on militant Islamist websites in the past.

The second attack, which hit earlier today, is reportedly much larger than the first and may keep Wikileaks offline for a while longer. But either way DDOS is only ever a temporary method to bring a website down.

When the DDOS attacks began Wikileaks gave us all a clue as to how it protects itself. It began shifting its website onto a host of back-up servers, some of which are cloud services run by Amazon out of Ireland and the United States.

It is assumed that Wikileaks also already has a host of mirror websites ready to roll in the event of its current online going down.

“I’d be very surprised if they didn’t have some sort of disaster recovery plan lined up like any other commercial organisation with a prominent web presence,” says Rik Ferguson, a cyber-security expert at Trend Micro. “It is technologically possible to disrupt the Wikileaks website but all the measures are temporary at best and easily overcome.”

By giving media outlets access to its material in advance, Wikileaks also made the task of stopping the State Department leaks virtually impossible.

The simple fact remains that even with America’s immense cyber military might, a website like Wikileaks is incredibly hard to tackle.

Much has been written about the shadowy nature of Wikileaks itself, an ethereal organisation staffed predominantly by unnamed volunteers who are connected by little more than the web and a fervent belief that all information should be in the public domain.

But the lack of corporate structure is just the first line of a sophisticated defence which makes the website exceedingly well protected.

Until recently Wikileaks was predominantly hosted in Sweden by a “bulletproof” service provider called PRQ which, over the past decade, has become the favoured choice for a variety of political dissidents, activists and refugee groups who would be closed down if they hosted websites in their own countries. The company deliberately keeps no logs on its clientele and specialises in protecting website against even the most sophisticated hacking techniques.

“If it is legal in Sweden”, PRQ states, “we will host it, and will keep it up regardless of any pressure to take it down.”

In recent weeks Wikileaks has left PRQ to a series of unknown servers but you can bet the move has strengthened the walls surrounding the website rather than weakened it.

“We have been working on upgrading our systems with new servers in different countries,” explains Kristinn Hvrafnsson, an Icelandic journalist and Wikileaks volunteer. “It’s an ongoing project. For obvious reasons I wouldn’t like to comment further than that.”

Any attack on the servers that host Wikileaks, meanwhile, could be constituted as an attack against the country where they are based. The US government would likely have to seek permission from the host country before it attacks or else risk a major diplomatic fallout.

Then there are the mysterious “insurance files” that Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has encouraged supporters to download and store in case something happens to either him or his website.

The first file appeared earlier this summer, four days after the website published its famous Afghan war logs. A link to another file was released earlier this week on Twitter alongside the statement: “Now is a good time to download some ‘history insurance’”.

The contents of these files are currently encrypted. But as Assange remarked earlier this year in a pointed threat against any attempts to stifle his organisation: “All we have to do is release the password to that material and it’s instantly available.”

It’s a shrewd move. Were the US to succeed in permanently taking down the Wikileaks website, they could be faced with a potential Pandora’s Box of previously unpublished information that might make the current leaks look like a picnic.

“It could all be a very elaborate double bluff,” says one cyber-warfare specialist who asked to remain anonymous. “But knowing how deeply anti-American Wikileaks is, my hunch is those files would contain something that could really sting the US if they ever took action against Assange.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/could-us-military-take-wikileaks-offline-2147688.html

[lisaparadise]

Jeez you wish death on someone for this?
How is it any different from a newpaper or TV breaking news on something?death is being very kind and yes from the bottom of my heart he deserves a bullit right between the eyes,where the hell is this gonna end?right now the trust between countries is deminishing and this prick only widens the gap of trust we all need to exist.this isnt a jfk cover up here its far more important for world peace dontcha think?this is much greater then freedom of the press we the common people have no right to liston in on private conversations period.in canada we have the toughest laws in the world when it comes to our privacy act thats something the rest of the world can only dream about so let me make this simple for you lets say you were on the phone with lets say amy daily and she told you off the record in private that she is now hiv posative and you told her ya i am too and somehow that private conversation made its way to the internet for everyone to see now whos side are you on?your businesses came crashing down your back in the poor house nobody will work for you as well as amy and for what?because some asshole thought he d be a smartass and shake your foundation now multiply that by a trillion and you ll see exactly why the rest of the world wants a bullit in his head.

[bte]

death is being very kind and yes from the bottom of my heart he deserves a bullit right between the eyes,where the hell is this gonna end?right now the trust between countries is deminishing and this prick only widens the gap of trust we all need to exist.this isnt a jfk cover up here its far more important for world peace dontcha think?this is much greater then freedom of the press we the common people have no right to liston in on private conversations period.in canada we have the toughest laws in the world when it comes to our privacy act thats something the rest of the world can only dream about so let me make this simple for you lets say you were on the phone with lets say amy daily and she told you off the record in private that she is now hiv posative and you told her ya i am too and somehow that private conversation made its way to the internet for everyone to see now whos side are you on?your businesses came crashing down your back in the poor house nobody will work for you as well as amy and for what?because some asshole thought he d be a smartass and shake your foundation now multiply that by a trillion and you ll see exactly why the rest of the world wants a bullit in his head.

Good point

[Jericho]

right now the trust between countries is deminishing

Whoosh!

[GroobySteven]

death is being very kind and yes from the bottom of my heart he deserves a bullit right between the eyes,where the hell is this gonna end?right now the trust between countries is deminishing and this prick only widens the gap of trust we all need to exist.this isnt a jfk cover up here its far more important for world peace dontcha think?this is much greater then freedom of the press we the common people have no right to liston in on private conversations period.in canada we have the toughest laws in the world when it comes to our privacy act thats something the rest of the world can only dream about so let me make this simple for you lets say you were on the phone with lets say amy daily and she told you off the record in private that she is now hiv posative and you told her ya i am too and somehow that private conversation made its way to the internet for everyone to see now whos side are you on?your businesses came crashing down your back in the poor house nobody will work for you as well as amy and for what?because some asshole thought he d be a smartass and shake your foundation now multiply that by a trillion and you ll see exactly why the rest of the world wants a bullit in his head.

Pathetic reasoning.
I agree the person who released these documents needs to be prosecuted but the fault lies in the system that allowed him to get these documents out.
Who are you to judge what is meant to be seen and what isn't? Who are you to call death to someone stating the truth? Where does freedome of the press begin and end. Under your dictatorship it would be whatever you deemed necessary.

This is far more important than the JFK coverup? I don't know, I don't know what that is as far as I am aware, nothing has been discovered about it? Is it far more important than the Watergate?

I understand where your anger at this person may be - but thinking that it's a good thing to have him assassinated is one closer step to a totalitarian state which is exactly why we must have freedom of the press and the ability for people to publish leaks like this.

[BellaBellucci]

Pathetic reasoning.
I agree the person who released these documents needs to be prosecuted but the fault lies in the system that allowed him to get these documents out.
Who are you to judge what is meant to be seen and what isn't? Who are you to call death to someone stating the truth? Where does freedome of the press begin and end. Under your dictatorship it would be whatever you deemed necessary.

This is far more important than the JFK coverup? I don't know, I don't know what that is as far as I am aware, nothing has been discovered about it? Is it far more important than the Watergate?

I understand where your anger at this person may be - but thinking that it's a good thing to have him assassinated is one closer step to a totalitarian state which is exactly why we must have freedom of the press and the ability for people to publish leaks like this.

Fuck! Stop making sense. It confuses me! :yayo:

Sorry Lisa, I'd love to be able side with you all the time, but I hate it when you do the militant rhetoric thing. :(

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Pathetic reasoning.
I agree the person who released these documents needs to be prosecuted but the fault lies in the system that allowed him to get these documents out.
Who are you to judge what is meant to be seen and what isn't? Who are you to call death to someone stating the truth? Where does freedome of the press begin and end. Under your dictatorship it would be whatever you deemed necessary.

This is far more important than the JFK coverup? I don't know, I don't know what that is as far as I am aware, nothing has been discovered about it? Is it far more important than the Watergate?

I understand where your anger at this person may be - but thinking that it's a good thing to have him assassinated is one closer step to a totalitarian state which is exactly why we must have freedom of the press and the ability for people to publish leaks like this.well i guess we will agree to disagree period,who ami to make those decisions? i dont have the power for if i did he would be dead by now.why do you thinks hes on the run?its not just the u.s. after him.you need to seriously step back and re-evaluate your thinking on this guy.hes not innocent hes admitted to everything to he seems to be under the impression that hes above the law we both know this will not end in a good way.

[lisaparadise]

Fuck! Stop making sense. It confuses me! :yayo:

Sorry Lisa, I'd love to be able side with you all the time, but I hate it when you do the militant rhetoric thing. :(

~BB~i knew you would side with the nutjobs its in your dna lol

[GroobySteven]

well i guess we will agree to disagree period,who ami to make those decisions? i dont have the power for if i did he would be dead by now.why do you thinks hes on the run?its not just the u.s. after him.you need to seriously step back and re-evaluate your thinking on this guy.hes not innocent hes admitted to everything to he seems to be under the impression that hes above the law we both know this will not end in a good way.

He's on the run on sex crime charges. I've no idea if he's innocent or guilty on those but as far as the release of the documents, I'm not sure if he's committed any crime?
If he does "die in an accident" or take his own life (ahem) now, maybe it will just strengthen his mission ... and someone else will take over, anyway.

[african1]

Bradley Manning clearly has gender identity issues. His sexual orientation, "gay" as you put it, is not the cause of his concern.

http://boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html

So he is a TG. I didn't know that. No wonder Lisa is enraged. lol.

[lisaparadise]

So he is a TG. I didn't know that. No wonder Lisa is enraged. lol.lol whats that supposed to mean? hes a faggot not a tg if he was a tg id go over there and kill him myself

[african1]

lol whats that supposed to mean? hes a faggot not a tg if he was a tg id go over there and kill him myself

This is the log of his chat with Bisexual ex-hacker Adrian Lamo. Can you tell if he is TG?

(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel, for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically

[lisaparadise]

This is the log of his chat with Bisexual ex-hacker Adrian Lamo. Can you tell if he is TG?

(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel, for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologicallydoesnt mater hes getting the death penalty anyways fuck him hes a fag period

[african1]

This is the log of his chat with Bisexual ex-hacker Adrian Lamo. Can you tell if he is TG?

(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel, for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically

from

http://boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html (http://boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html)

http://gawker.com/5571388/was-wikileaker-bradley-manning-betrayed-by-his-queer-identity?skyline=true&s=i

[african1]

doesnt mater hes getting the death penalty anyways fuck him hes a fag period

actually the maximum sentence he's facing is 52 years. He'll probably end up cutting some deal and getting like 15 or 20.

[lisaparadise]

actually the maximum sentence he's facing is 52 years. He'll probably end up cutting some deal and getting like 15 or 20.he wont be cutting any deal period.

[giovanni_hotel]

Bradley Manning is going to spend the rest of his natural life in a military prison, probably in solitary confinement and lose his mind.
The 'powers that be' are trying to bring him up on a treason charge, punishable by death.
Sucks to be that dude, really.

Ironically, his 'gender issues' are no doubt striking a negative blow in Congress, specifically the GOP, about ever overturning DADT any time soon.
You let these fags run amok in the U.S. military, and the next thing you know they're releasing classified documents around the world!!!lol

Not the greatest spokesperson for the gay/queer community to have at the moment.

[lisaparadise]

Bradley Manning is going to spend the rest of his natural life in a military prison, probably in solitary confinement and lose his mind.
The 'powers that be' are trying to bring him up on a treason charge, punishable by death.
Sucks to be that dude, really.

Ironically, his 'gender issues' are no doubt striking a negative blow in Congress, specifically the GOP, about ever overturning DADT any time soon.
You let these fags run amok in the U.S. military, and the next thing you know they're releasing classified documents around the world!!!lol

Not the greatest spokesperson for the gay/queer community to have at the moment.ya i was thinkin the same thing

[fred41]

I could care less about Bradley Manning...I hope at the very least , he does rot in jail. He damn well knew (by his own statements) what the consequences for his actions were going to be...so now he should be willing to suffer them.

Sometimes, in life...when you want to play martyr...you get what you wish for.

[loveburst]

Spreading truth, in the days of lying and backstabbing, showing that to the world is indeed a good deed.

This will be apart of a global "changedown", where the infrastructure of the whole system will change towards (providing us all) a more loving environment..

..which is why Wikileaks deserve all the donations they get.

[GroobySteven]

Sometimes, in life...when you want to play martyr...you get what you wish for.
Jesus Christ!!!!!!!!

[giovanni_hotel]

Spreading truth, in the days of lying and backstabbing, showing that to the world is indeed a good deed.

This will be apart of a global "changedown", where the infrastructure of the whole system will change towards (providing us all) a more loving environment..

..which is why Wikileaks deserve all the donations they get.

Disclosing every SINGLE missive between a U.S. diplomat and a host country representative or foreign consul should NOT BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.

It would be like demanding that every surgeon should be required by law to allow the public to watch him operate on a patient, to see if he makes a mistake.
Effective international negotiations require a degree of 'secrecy', because every global actor doesn't have the best interests of his adversaries in mind.

Manning and Assange fucced up because they released too much, not too little.

[bte]

Disclosing every SINGLE missive between a U.S. diplomat and a host country representative or foreign consul should NOT BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.

It would be like demanding that every surgeon should be required by law to allow the public to watch him operate on a patient, to see if he makes a mistake.
Effective international negotiations require a degree of 'secrecy', because every global actor doesn't have the best interests of his adversaries in mind.

Manning and Assange fucced up because they released too much, not too little.

Yeah, they are both fucked.

[BellaBellucci]

Sometimes, in life...when you want to play martyr...you get what you wish for.


Jesus Christ!!!!!!!!

*rimshot*

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Spreading truth, in the days of lying and backstabbing, showing that to the world is indeed a good deed.

This will be apart of a global "changedown", where the infrastructure of the whole system will change towards (providing us all) a more loving environment..

..which is why Wikileaks deserve all the donations they get.your fucked

[lisaparadise]

*rimshot*

~BB~you two get a room

[onmyknees]

Pathetic reasoning.
I agree the person who released these documents needs to be prosecuted but the fault lies in the system that allowed him to get these documents out.
Who are you to judge what is meant to be seen and what isn't? Who are you to call death to someone stating the truth? Where does freedome of the press begin and end. Under your dictatorship it would be whatever you deemed necessary.

This is far more important than the JFK coverup? I don't know, I don't know what that is as far as I am aware, nothing has been discovered about it? Is it far more important than the Watergate?

I understand where your anger at this person may be - but thinking that it's a good thing to have him assassinated is one closer step to a totalitarian state which is exactly why we must have freedom of the press and the ability for people to publish leaks like this.


seanchai

As preeminent First Amendment Attorney Fred Abrahams said today....the first amendment has limitations, and actually thinks Assange is talking his way right into an indictment under the Espionage Act. National Security, not Lisa has dictated what can be seen and not be seen and they've deemed these documents as classified. I'm perfectly fine with this administration, or the next making that determination. I think we can all have opinions about what is the ultimate effect of these documents, ( but folks better read all 250,000 pages before they blow it off as much ado about nothing .) There are some pretty serious, non partisan people saying this is the most serious breech of national security in a century.
The difference Seanchai between this and Watergate, and what you call the JFK cover up ( I'm not buying Oliver Stone's version...LOL) so I'll call it the JFK investigation, is frankly that the US is engaged in 2 very difficult wars at the moment, and men and women both on the battlefield, and in covert situations may find themselves in very vulnerable and dangerous situations as a result of this.

Additionally, this comes with a backdrop of some very unstable people in North Korea and Iran getting nuclear weapons and nations must have confidence their conversations will remain private in discussing those weighty issues. That was not nearly the case in the 2 examples you sight.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/11/30/131690619/wikileaks-assange-may-be-talking-himself-into-espionage-act-charges

It kills me to paste a link from NPR...but i'll make an exception in this case !

[lisaparadise]

seanchai

As preeminent First Amendment Attorney Fred Abrahams said today....the first amendment has limitations, and actually thinks Assange is talking his way right into an indictment under the Espionage Act. National Security, not Lisa has dictated what can be seen and not be seen and they've deemed these documents as classified. I'm perfectly fine with this administration, or the next making that determination. I think we can all have opinions about what is the ultimate effect of these documents, ( but folks better read all 250,000 pages before they blow it off as much ado about nothing .) There are some pretty serious, non partisan people saying this is the most serious breech of national security in a century.
The difference Seanchai between this and Watergate, and what you call the JFK cover up ( I'm not buying Oliver Stone's version...LOL) so I'll call it the JFK investigation, is frankly that the US is engaged in 2 very difficult wars at the moment, and men and women both on the battlefield, and in covert situations may find themselves in very vulnerable and dangerous situations as a result of this.

Additionally, this comes with a backdrop of some very unstable people in North Korea and Iran getting nuclear weapons and nations must have confidence their conversations will remain private in discussing those weighty issues. That was not nearly the case in the 2 examples you sight.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/11/30/131690619/wikileaks-assange-may-be-talking-himself-into-espionage-act-charges

It kills me to paste a link from NPR...but i'll make an exception in this case !amazing insite thank you for that:Bowdown:YouTube - WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange walks out of CNN interview - In-depth Africa.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lisa9XTRLb4)

[trish]

Disclosing every SINGLE missive between a U.S. diplomat and a host country representative or foreign consul should NOT BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.

It would be like demanding that every surgeon should be required by law to allow the public to watch him operate on a patient, to see if he makes a mistake.
Effective international negotiations require a degree of 'secrecy', because every global actor doesn't have the best interests of his adversaries in mind.

Manning and Assange fucced up because they released too much, not too little.
What he said.:iagree:

[loveburst]

your fucked

Back at ya.. :)

[BellaBellucci]

you two get a room

Oh please. I just call them how I see them. If I happen to agree with someone with whom I don't normally agree, then so be it.


amazing insite thank you for that:Bowdown:

Leaking diplomatic cables isn't exactly the same thing as disclosing troop movements or weapons ability and the result is not vulnerability, only embarrassment. These documents came from the State Department, not the DOD, and were at most 'secret' in classification.

I think everyone needs to stop beating up the First Amendment every time they don't like something someone else says or does, looking for loopholes and exceptions when it suits them.

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Oh please. I just call them how I see them. If I happen to agree with someone with whom I don't normally agree, then so be it.



Leaking diplomatic cables isn't exactly the same thing as disclosing troop movements or weapons ability and the result is not vulnerability, only embarrassment. These documents came from the State Department, not the DOD, and were at most 'secret' in classification.

I think everyone needs to stop beating up the First Amendment every time they don't like something someone else says or does, looking for loopholes and exceptions when it suits them.

~BB~is there no night schools you could attend lol

[loveburst]

Disclosing every SINGLE missive between a U.S. diplomat and a host country representative or foreign consul should NOT BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.

It would be like demanding that every surgeon should be required by law to allow the public to watch him operate on a patient, to see if he makes a mistake.
Effective international negotiations require a degree of 'secrecy', because every global actor doesn't have the best interests of his adversaries in mind.

Manning and Assange fucced up because they released too much, not too little.

It is way different than seeing "the action" itself, we are talking about reports merely - so it's not the same. And btw. this is just the governments getting back the same mentality that is geared towards the public. I am seeing some really good progress here, and I am suspecting so will all of you in a good time - though now we might have our disagreements. Having open conversations about unjust actions is somewhat enlightening for the general public, and that will take the veil off many peoples eyes.

So, let's just see what this brings. I am guessing the effects will be merely positive, though it seems to be a shock for many right now..

[fred41]

Leaking diplomatic cables isn't exactly the same thing as disclosing troop movements or weapons ability and the result is not vulnerability, only embarrassment. These documents came from the State Department, not the DOD, and were at most 'secret' in classification.

~BB~

You don't even know that for a fact...and neither did the private...he didn't care...and since when does he get to make that decision?

[lisaparadise]

You don't even know that for a fact...and neither did the private...he didn't care...and since when does he get to make that decision?exactly

[onmyknees]

Oh please. I just call them how I see them. If I happen to agree with someone with whom I don't normally agree, then so be it.



Leaking diplomatic cables isn't exactly the same thing as disclosing troop movements or weapons ability and the result is not vulnerability, only embarrassment. These documents came from the State Department, not the DOD, and were at most 'secret' in classification.

I think everyone needs to stop beating up the First Amendment every time they don't like something someone else says or does, looking for loopholes and exceptions when it suits them.

~BB~


Wow Bella...Your "so what" attitude is frankly, with all due respect....irresponsible. I'm glad you're not my "deep throat" covert contact. You'd drop a dime on me in a heartbeat. Please read below...

"Gabriel Schoenfeld, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, in his 2010 book Necessary Secrets, presented his own challenge to newspapers and other media who choose to “publish and let others perish,” as he phrases it, or, as he quotes a newspaper editor, to publish “no matter the cost.” He discusses the case of the late Philip Agee, who as a former CIA (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) officer published Inside the Company — CIA Diary (1975), which disclosed the names of numerous American and British intelligence officers — resulting in the deaths of several of them. Agee, consequently, spent the remainder of his days looking over his shoulders in Havana, where he arranged tourism packages for Americans seeking loopholes around American laws prohibiting Cuban travel. He was excoriated as a “traitor” by then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush.
In the case of the July 2010 WikiLeaks archive publication, MSNBC quoted the Times of London stating that “the leak of 90,000 U.S. intelligence documents has put hundreds of Afghan lives at risk because the files (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) identify informants working with NATO forces,” and that in just two hours of searching the archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers’ names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces. Assange originally denied that a release of informants’ names had occurred, but was contradicted repeatedly by the London Times findings. Military officials, including the highest ranking U.S. military officer, Admiral Mike Mullen, have also stated this would cause potential informants to be reluctant to volunteer intelligence because of a lack of trust."

[BellaBellucci]

You don't even know that for a fact...and neither did the private...he didn't care...and since when does he get to make that decision?

I don't know what for a fact? That the documents leaked were only intended to embarrass the US government or that they were only classified 'secret?' Sure I do - experts agree:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-12-01-wikileaks-diplomacy_N.htm
(I can't find the article that points to the secrecy level of the cables at the moment, but I did read that they were 'secret.')

Since when does he get to make what call? Are you referring to the decisions about which are dangerous and which aren't? He got to make that the moment he obtained the documents and invoked the First Amendment. The party that has to determine whether or not it warrants a treason charge is the government, but that's not a given by any stretch of the imagination, and while this situation could probably sustain such a criminal charge, the political backlash from First Amendment supporters will likely get him at least a plea-down, and probably not from treason or espionage, but some lesser charge.

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Wow Bella...Your "so what" attitude is frankly, with all due respect....irresponsible. I'm glad you're not my "deep throat" covert contact. You'd drop a dime on me in a heartbeat. Please read below...

"Gabriel Schoenfeld, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, in his 2010 book Necessary Secrets, presented his own challenge to newspapers and other media who choose to “publish and let others perish,” as he phrases it, or, as he quotes a newspaper editor, to publish “no matter the cost.” He discusses the case of the late Philip Agee, who as a former CIA (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) officer published Inside the Company — CIA Diary (1975), which disclosed the names of numerous American and British intelligence officers — resulting in the deaths of several of them. Agee, consequently, spent the remainder of his days looking over his shoulders in Havana, where he arranged tourism packages for Americans seeking loopholes around American laws prohibiting Cuban travel. He was excoriated as a “traitor” by then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush.
In the case of the July 2010 WikiLeaks archive publication, MSNBC quoted the Times of London stating that “the leak of 90,000 U.S. intelligence documents has put hundreds of Afghan lives at risk because the files (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) identify informants working with NATO forces,” and that in just two hours of searching the archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers’ names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces. Assange originally denied that a release of informants’ names had occurred, but was contradicted repeatedly by the London Times findings. Military officials, including the highest ranking U.S. military officer, Admiral Mike Mullen, have also stated this would cause potential informants to be reluctant to volunteer intelligence because of a lack of trust."and that was just the tip of the iceburgh .assange is currantly seeking assylam in equador but bet your ass the secret service will put a bullit right between the eyes i just cant see them taking him alive he knows too much hes a dead man walking,time to turn out the lights

[onmyknees]

amazing insite thank you for that:Bowdown:
:kiss:

[lisaparadise]

I don't know what for a fact? That the documents leaked were only intended to embarrass the US government or that they were only classified 'secret?' Sure I do - experts agree:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-12-01-wikileaks-diplomacy_N.htm
(I can't find the article that points to the secrecy level of the cables at the moment, but I did read that they were 'secret.')

Since when does he get to make what call? Which are dangerous and which aren't? When he obtained the documents and invoked the First Amendment. The party that has to determine whether or not it warrants a treason charge is the government, but that's not a given by any stretch of the imagination, and while this situation could probably sustain such a criminal charge, the political backlash from First Amendment supporters will likely get him at least a plea-down, and probably not from treason or espionage, but some lesser charge.

~BB~not a change in hell do you really think the u s government gives a shit about the first ammendmend protesters?be real for gods sake he has zero bargaining power its time to get educated on what this prick had done

[BellaBellucci]

Wow Bella...Your "so what" attitude is frankly, with all due respect....irresponsible. I'm glad you're not my "deep throat" covert contact. You'd drop a dime on me in a heartbeat. Please read below...

"Gabriel Schoenfeld, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, in his 2010 book Necessary Secrets, presented his own challenge to newspapers and other media who choose to “publish and let others perish,” as he phrases it, or, as he quotes a newspaper editor, to publish “no matter the cost.” He discusses the case of the late Philip Agee, who as a former CIA (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) officer published Inside the Company — CIA Diary (1975), which disclosed the names of numerous American and British intelligence officers — resulting in the deaths of several of them. Agee, consequently, spent the remainder of his days looking over his shoulders in Havana, where he arranged tourism packages for Americans seeking loopholes around American laws prohibiting Cuban travel. He was excoriated as a “traitor” by then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush.
In the case of the July 2010 WikiLeaks archive publication, MSNBC quoted the Times of London stating that “the leak of 90,000 U.S. intelligence documents has put hundreds of Afghan lives at risk because the files (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-dangers-of-zealotry/#) identify informants working with NATO forces,” and that in just two hours of searching the archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers’ names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces. Assange originally denied that a release of informants’ names had occurred, but was contradicted repeatedly by the London Times findings. Military officials, including the highest ranking U.S. military officer, Admiral Mike Mullen, have also stated this would cause potential informants to be reluctant to volunteer intelligence because of a lack of trust."

First of all hon, I never said 'so what,' or even implied it. All I said is that the criminal act here falls on PFC Manning, not Assange, and that the First Amendment is essentially the entire basis of this country. Zealotry in the name of 'national security,' for some cables that essentially tell us a lot of what we already know doesn't void that.

If information released by the press doesn't create dangerous situations that outweigh the benefits of releasing said information in the interest of transparency, then it should be allowed. While your expert holds the opinion that in this case there was an overwhelming reason to stay secret, I disagree and so do many other experts. It all depends on whom you ask at this point. We may find out it's worse than we thought, but we may find that it's nothing at all. Only time will tell I guess.

Hopefully any criminal charges will be based on the actual consequences of the act and not trumped up to reflect the obvious political bias against diplomatic transparency.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

And what do you guys think of the sex crime charges against Assange in Sweden? Real or BS? I'm still undecided.

~BB~

[giovanni_hotel]

Bella, anyone who knowingly receives stolen classified documents and in turn chooses to publish them, is as guilty as the person responsible for the original theft.
If previously unknown Afghani assets were named in the document dump, as has been alleged, that alone IMO validates the argument that Manning and Assange have put American and Afghani lives in jeopardy in the middle of a 'hot war'.

Bella, I've come to the realization you are neither progressive or a conservative, socialist or capitalist, utopian or nihilist.

You, Bella, are an unapologetic, burn baby burn, ANARCHIST.
Anti-, anti-, anti-, etc.
Let the whole damn thing implode, build it anew and blow it up again.

Too bad there's very little future in it for the rest of us.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella, anyone who knowingly receives stolen classified documents and in turn chooses to publish them, is as guilty as the person responsible for the original theft.
If previously unknown Afghani assets were named in the document dump, as has been alleged, that alone IMO validates the argument that Manning and Assange have put American and Afghani lives in jeopardy in the middle of a 'hot war'.

Bella, I've come to the realization you are neither progressive or a conservative, socialist or capitalist, utopian or nihilist.

You, Bella, are an unapologetic, burn baby burn, ANARCHIST.
Anti-, anti-, anti-, etc.
Let the whole damn thing implode, build it anew and blow it up again.

Too bad there's very little future in it for the rest of us.

I'm not an anarchist. I'm a minarchist. I'm a Ron Paul supporter, a member of the Libertarian Party, and consider myself radical middle. But yes, I do think that a lot of the foundations of the social structures we've built over the years are crumbling. When a building gets too old to be occupied, it gets 'imploded' (to use your word) and replaced, so yeah, I'll admit that I don't mind breaking a few eggs in order to make an omelette, but that doesn't make me a total anarchist by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't put too much stock in the expression, 'well, that's the way it's always been done.' The status quo needs an infusion of fresh blood and/or a shakeup once in a while. :wiggle:

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

I'm not an anarchist. I'm a minarchist. I'm a Ron Paul supporter, a member of the Libertarian Party, and consider myself radical middle. But yes, I do think that a lot of the foundations of the social structures we've built over the years are crumbling. When a building gets too old to be occupied, it gets 'imploded' (to use your word) and replaced, so yeah, I'll admit that I don't mind breaking a few eggs in order to make an omelette, but that doesn't make me a total anarchist by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't put too much stock in the expression, 'well, that's the way it's always been done.' The status quo needs an infusion of fresh blood and/or a shakeup once in a while. :wiggle:

~BB~in my opinion from what ive read in your post i think its a me against the world attitude i think your hard on the outside and soft on the inside i think you think that the world is full of one conspiracy after another and you trust nobody.i think your of german desent simply because your extremely stubborn i think your beautifull and smart and very very tough you like kariyoki shecock and my spelling lol but most of all i think your a pretty cool chick and somebody id be more then honored to call a friend.

[NYBURBS]

Bella, anyone who knowingly receives stolen classified documents and in turn chooses to publish them, is as guilty as the person responsible for the original theft.


Guilty of what? He is not subject to the laws of the United States (Assange), so then exactly whose laws did he break?

[lisaparadise]

Guilty of what? He is not subject to the laws of the United States (Assange), so then exactly whose laws did he break?oh yes he is just because he doesnt live in the u s he still broke there laws but i doubt you even know how to read

[BellaBellucci]

in my opinion from what ive read in your post i think its a me against the world attitude i think your hard on the outside and soft on the inside i think you think that the world is full of one conspiracy after another and you trust nobody.i think your of german desent simply because your extremely stubborn i think your beautifull and smart and very very tough you like kariyoki shecock and my spelling lol but most of all i think your a pretty cool chick and somebody id be more then honored to call a friend.

I'm Italian/Sicilian actually...

and I love your spelling. ;)

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

I'm Italian/Sicilian actually...

and I love your spelling. ;)

~BB~come on ya gotta give me credit though lol seriously when im in l a we gotta hang out

[BellaBellucci]

come on ya gotta give me credit though lol seriously when im in l a we gotta hang out

Yes, I'd say that's a fairly accurate description of me. And I've love to meet you when you come out. I may even pick you up at the airport if I'm feeling ducky. :dancing:

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

Yes, I'd say that's a fairly accurate description of me. And I've love to meet you when you come out. I may even pick you up at the airport if I'm feeling ducky. :dancing:

~BB~sweet i always rent a car when i travell but im thinkin i might drive my mustang convertable out there in july just me and my daughter you can show us the sites k

[BellaBellucci]

sweet i always rent a car when i travell but im thinkin i might drive my mustang convertable out there in july just me and my daughter you can show us the sites k

You got that, gorg. :)

~BB~

[JoePitt]

Hopefully any criminal charges will be based on the actual consequences of the act and not trumped up to reflect the obvious political bias against diplomatic transparency.

~BB~

People have criminal charges filed against them for acts without any consequences whatsoever all the time. The most recent and well known example was the Portland Xmas tree lighting terrorist.

[Dino Velvet]

I'm Italian/Sicilian actually...

~BB~

All this time I thought you were a Mick or at least half-Mick even though your name is Eye-Talian.

Sicilian, huh?

YouTube - True Romance - Sicilians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA)

[phobun]

Bradley Manning is going to spend the rest of his natural life in a military prison, probably in solitary confinement and lose his mind.
The 'powers that be' are trying to bring him up on a treason charge, punishable by death.
Sucks to be that dude, really.

Ironically, his 'gender issues' are no doubt striking a negative blow in Congress, specifically the GOP, about ever overturning DADT any time soon.
You let these fags run amok in the U.S. military, and the next thing you know they're releasing classified documents around the world!!!lol

Not the greatest spokesperson for the gay/queer community to have at the moment.


Gay/queer community? WTF. Manning clearly has gender dysphoria. That is not gay. Just because you mix up your lust for cocksucking with someone else's gender dysphoria doesn't mean they're also "gay/queer".

[african1]

Guilty of what? He is not subject to the laws of the United States (Assange), so then exactly whose laws did he break?

He may not be a US citizen, but its laws apply to him since he's dealing with US secrets, information and assets. When a foreign spy is arrested anywhere in the World he is prosecuted under US law although he is not a US citizen.

[giovanni_hotel]

Gay/queer community? WTF. Manning clearly has gender dysphoria. That is not gay. Just because you mix up your lust for cocksucking with someone else's gender dysphoria doesn't mean they're also "gay/queer".

Huh??

Quit sniffing my nuts, dude.
'Queer' is a catch-all term for the LBGT community, so pfc Manning IMO fits in there somewhere.
In the Army, btw, if he's had a cock in his mouth, he's a fag.
Kinda like you phobun, who's a faggot on general principle.:fu:

[MrsKellyPierce]

wow that is a lot of info and pages...

[NYBURBS]

He may not be a US citizen, but its laws apply to him since he's dealing with US secrets, information and assets. When a foreign spy is arrested anywhere in the World he is prosecuted under US law although he is not a US citizen.

1) It's murky as far as jurisdiction goes. He's not technically a spy in the legal sense, he's more along the lines of a publisher.

2) They could file charges, but getting him extradited is a different ball game.

3) Be careful what you wish for. This idea of applying the laws of foreign nations to persons outside of it is dangerous. It used to only apply to a select number of crimes like piracy on the high seas.

[hippifried]

I can't believe the press isn't coming to this guy's defense.

[BellaBellucci]

All this time I thought you were a Mick or at least half-Mick even though your name is Eye-Talian.

Sicilian, huh?

YouTube - True Romance - Sicilians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA)

You're joking, right? Have you even seen my nose?! :lol:

~BB~

[NYBURBS]

I can't believe the press isn't coming to this guy's defense.

Yea, that WSJ editorial basically calling for his assassination was pretty wild.

[Dino Velvet]

You're joking, right? Have you even seen my nose?! :lol:

~BB~

Yes. Looks OK to me.

I still like you even if you're a Dego.

Lasagna's awesome.

http://media.shopwell.com/product/5100006348_full.jpg

[BellaBellucci]

Yes. Looks OK to me.

I still like you even if you're a Dego.

Lasagna's awesome.

http://media.shopwell.com/product/5100006348_full.jpg

I prefer Guinea.

And to hell with that frozen stuff! I have a Fresh and Easy only 2 blocks away and they sell freshly-cooked prepared meals. If you get them on special, they cost about the same. :geek:

~BB~

[Dino Velvet]

I prefer Guinea.

And to hell with that frozen stuff! I have a Fresh and Easy only 2 blocks away and they sell freshly-cooked prepared meals. If you get them on special, they cost about the same. :geek:

~BB~

I'll wait for an invitation. I put out on the first date as long as you're the one biting the pillow.

[BellaBellucci]

I'll wait for an invitation. I put out on the first date as long as you're the one biting the pillow.

You talk a big game. You live 20 minutes from me. We've never met. WTF?! :fu: :lol:

~BB~

[kieron]

Sick US ARMY, they shot innocent people for nothing!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0)

CBS News article:

YouTube - Disturbing Iraq Video Leaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVyJJXbHAgI)

Al Jazeera in depth:

YouTube - Collateral Murder? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zok8yMxXEwk)

ABC1 (Australian) article with soldiers apologizing:

YouTube - 2 soldiers in 'Collateral Murder' video apologize, 1/2: Ethan McCord interview - WikiLeaks Baghdad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sSuEf4BAVk)

[Dino Velvet]

You talk a big game. You live 20 minutes from me. We've never met. WTF?! :fu: :lol:

~BB~

You're right. You do outcalls yet. When I'm horny I'm usually too drunk to drive.

[BellaBellucci]

You're right. You do outcalls yet. When I'm horny I'm usually too drunk to drive.

I've always done outcall. *smh*

~BB~

[phobun]

In the Army, btw, if he's had a cock in his mouth, he's a fag.
Kinda like you phobun, who's a faggot on general principle.:fu:


Manning might never have had a "cock in his mouth".

You remain a very pathetic and thin-skinned hypocrite.

[Ben]

YouTube - Right Wing Reaction To WikiLeaks - Cenk Attack On MSNBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhD0pgs44JI)

[Ben]

YouTube - Was Julian Assange Of WikiLeaks Set Up? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvhv7wXiHa8)

YouTube - Attorney Confirms WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange in Britain, Responds to U.S. Attacks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2MjnoRF7Qs)

[GroobySteven]

YouTube - Right Wing Reaction To WikiLeaks - Cenk Attack On MSNBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhD0pgs44JI)


Well said.
Thanks for that.

[dlbi22]

shut up lisa...youre so annoying. get off the computer

[lisaparadise]

shut up lisa...youre so annoying. get off the computerfuck you asshole you people are about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb fuckin idiots

[yosi]

if someone like Bradley Manning could get so many documents without being noticed , it proves :

1. these secrets weren't big and important secrets...............:wiggle:

2. too many of the diplomats are bunch of morons , judging by their comments , that's the biggest secret which was revealed.........

[Ben]

if someone like Bradley Manning could get so many documents without being noticed , it proves :

1. these secrets weren't big and important secrets...............:wiggle:

2. too many of the diplomats are bunch of morons , judging by their comments , that's the biggest secret which was revealed.........

I think diplomats are just happy to get some notice, some attention -- ha! ha! ha!

[Ben]

Is WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange a Hero?


http://www.democracynow.org/seo/2010/12/3/is_wikileaks_julian_assange_a_hero

[onmyknees]

YouTube - Was Julian Assange Of WikiLeaks Set Up? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvhv7wXiHa8)

YouTube - Attorney Confirms WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange in Britain, Responds to U.S. Attacks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2MjnoRF7Qs)


Democracy Now ?? Are you fucking kidding me??? Now that's an organazation with no political axe to grind ...LMAO !!

Search back and find the link I posted from the NPR interview with Floyd Abrahams. In my opinion, that's the definative article on the matter, the rest is just left wing noise.

[El Nino]

[QUOTE=onmyknees;838350]Democracy Now ?? Are you fucking kidding me??? Now that's an organazation with no political axe to grind ...LMAO !!QUOTE]

What, And CBS-NBC=ABC-CNN-FOX doesn't?

[El Nino]

Democracy Now ?? Are you fucking kidding me??? Now that's an organazation with no political axe to grind ...LMAO !



What, And CBS-NBC=ABC-CNN-FOX doesn't?

[Ben]

Julian Assange Answers Questions in Online Q&A

The founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, is answering readers' questions about the release of more than 250,000 US diplomatic cables. We will post his responses as we receive them


Fwoggie I'll start the ball rolling with a question. You're an Australian passport holder - would you want return to your own country or is this now out of the question due to potentially being arrested on arrival for releasing cables relating to Australian diplomats and polices?
http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/Julian-Assange-WikiLeaks--006_0.jpgJulian Assange, WikiLeaks founder. (Photograph: Carmen Valino for the Guardian)

Julian Assange (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/julian-assange) I am an Australian citizen and I miss my country a great deal. However, during the last weeks the Australian prime minister, Julia Gillard, and the attorney general, Robert McClelland, have made it clear that not only is my return is impossible but that they are actively working to assist the United States government in its attacks on myself and our people. This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best US embassy cocktail parties.
girish89 How do you think you have changed world affairs? And if you call all the attention you've been given-credit ... shouldn't the mole or source receive a word of praise from you?
Julian Assange For the past four years one of our goals has been to lionise the source who take the real risks in nearly every journalistic disclosure and without whose efforts, journalists would be nothing. If indeed it is the case, as alleged by the Pentagon, that the young soldier - Bradley Manning - is behind some of our recent disclosures, then he is without doubt an unparalleled hero.
Daithi Have you released, or will you release, cables (either in the last few days or with the Afghan and Iraq war logs) with the names of Afghan informants or anything else like so? Are you willing to censor (sorry for using the term) any names that you feel might land people in danger from reprisals?? By the way, I think history will absolve you. Well done!!!
Julian Assange WikiLeaks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/wikileaks) has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a counter-factual conclusion. We do not expect any change in this regard.
distrot The State Dept is mulling over the issue of whether you are a journalist or not. Are you a journalist? As far as delivering information that someone [anyone] does not want seen is concerned, does it matter if you are a 'journalist' or not?
Julian Assange I coauthored my first nonfiction book by the time I was 25. I have been involved in nonfiction documentaries, newspapers, TV and internet since that time. However, it is not necessary to debate whether I am a journalist, or how our people mysteriously are alleged to cease to be journalists when they start writing for our organisaiton. Although I still write, research and investigate my role is primarily that of a publisher and editor-in-chief who organises and directs other journalists.
achanth Mr Assange, have there ever been documents forwarded to you which deal with the topic of UFOs or extraterrestrials?
Julian Assange: Many weirdos email us about UFOs or how they discovered that they were the anti-christ whilst talking with their ex-wife at a garden party over a pot-plant. However, as yet they have not satisfied two of our publishing rules. 1) that the documents not be self-authored; 2) that they be original. However, it is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the cablegate archive there are indeed references to UFOs.
gnosticheresy What happened to all the other documents that were on Wikileaks prior to these series of "megaleaks"? Will you put them back online at some stage ("technical difficulties" permitting)?
Julian Assange: Many of these are still available at mirror.wikileaks.info and the rest will be returning as soon as we can find a moment to do address the engineering complexities. Since April of this year our timetable has not been our own, rather it has been one that has centred on the moves of abusive elements of the United States government against us. But rest assured I am deeply unhappy that the three-and-a-half years of my work and others is not easily available or searchable by the general public.
CrisShutlar Have you expected this level of impact all over the world? Do you fear for your security?
Julian Assange: I always believed that WikiLeaks as a concept would perform a global role and to some degree it was clear that is was doing that as far back as 2007 when it changed the result of the Kenyan general election. I thought it would take two years instead of four to be recognised by others as having this important role, so we are still a little behind schedule and have much more work to do. The threats against our lives are a matter of public record, however, we are taking the appropriate precautions to the degree that we are able when dealing with a super power.
JAnthony Julian. I am a former British diplomat. In the course of my former duties I helped to coordinate multilateral action against a brutal regime in the Balkans, impose sanctions on a renegade state threatening ethnic cleansing, and negotiate a debt relief programme for an impoverished nation. None of this would have been possible without the security and secrecy of diplomatic correspondence, and the protection of that correspondence from publication under the laws of the UK and many other liberal and democratic states. An embassy which cannot securely offer advice or pass messages back to London is an embassy which cannot operate. Diplomacy cannot operate without discretion and the protection of sources. This applies to the UK and the UN as much as the US.
In publishing this massive volume of correspondence, Wikileaks is not highlighting specific cases of wrongdoing but undermining the entire process of diplomacy. If you can publish US cables then you can publish UK telegrams and UN emails.
My question to you is: why should we not hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes unresolved because diplomats cannot function.
Julian Assange: If you trim the vast editorial letter to the singular question actually asked, I would be happy to give it my attention.
cargun Mr Assange, Can you explain the censorship of identities as XXXXX's in the revealed cables? Some critical identities are left as is, whereas some are XXXXX'd. Some cables are partially revealed. Who can make such critical decisons, but the US gov't? As far as we know your request for such help was rejected by the State department. Also is there an order in the release of cable or are they randomly selected? Thank you.
Julian Assange: The cables we have release correspond to stories released by our main stream media partners and ourselves. They have been redacted by the journalists working on the stories, as these people must know the material well in order to write about it. The redactions are then reviewed by at least one other journalist or editor, and we review samples supplied by the other organisations to make sure the process is working.
rszopa Annoying as it may be, the DDoS seems to be good publicity (if anything, it adds to your credibility). So is getting kicked out of AWS. Do you agree with this statement? Were you planning for it? Thank you for doing what you are doing.
Julian Assange: Since 2007 we have been deliberately placing some of our servers in jurisdictions that we suspected suffered a free speech deficit inorder to separate rhetoric from reality. Amazon was one of these cases.
abbeherrera You started something that nobody can stop. The Beginning of a New World. Remember, that community is behind you and support you (from Slovakia). Do you have leaks on ACTA?
Julian Assange: Yes, we have leaks on the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a trojan horse trade agreement designed from the very beginning to satisfy big players in the US copyright and patent industries. In fact, it was WikiLeaks that first drew ACTA to the public's attention - with a leak.
people1st Tom Flanagan, a senior adviser to Canadian Prime Minister recently stated "I think Assange should be assassinated ... I think Obama should put out a contract ... I wouldn't feel unhappy if Assange does disappear." How do you feel about this?
Julian Assange: It is correct that Mr. Flanagan and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with incitement to commit murder.

Isopod Julian, why do you think it was necessary to "give Wikileaks a face"? Don't you think it would be better if the organization was anonymous? This whole debate has become very personal and reduced on you - "Julian Assange leaked documents", "Julian Assange is a terrorist", "Julian Assange alledgedly raped a woman", "Julian Assange should be assassinated", "Live Q&A qith Julian Assange" etc. Nobody talks about Wikileaks as an organization anymore. Many people don't even realize that there are other people behind Wikileaks, too. And this, in my opinion, makes Wikileaks vulnerable because this enables your opponents to argue ad hominem. If they convince the public that you're an evil, woman-raping terrorist, then Wikileaks' credibility will be gone. Also, with due respect for all that you've done, I think it's unfair to all the other brave, hard working people behind Wikileaks, that you get so much credit.
Julian Assange: This is an interesting question. I originally tried hard for the organisation to have no face, because I wanted egos to play no part in our activities. This followed the tradition of the French anonymous pure mathematians, who wrote under the collective allonym, "The Bourbaki". However this quickly led to tremendous distracting curiosity about who and random individuals claiming to represent us. In the end, someone must be responsible to the public and only a leadership that is willing to be publicly courageous can genuinely suggest that sources take risks for the greater good. In that process, I have become the lightening rod. I get undue attacks on every aspect of my life, but then I also get undue credit as some kind of balancing force.
tburgi Western governments lay claim to moral authority in part from having legal guarantees for a free press. Threats of legal sanction against Wikileaks and yourself seem to weaken this claim. (What press needs to be protected except that which is unpopular to the State? If being state-sanctioned is the test for being a media organization, and therefore able to claim rights to press freedom, the situation appears to be the same in authoritarian regimes and the west.) Do you agree that western governments risk losing moral authority by attacking Wikileaks? Do you believe western goverments have any moral authority to begin with? Thanks, Tim Burgi Vancouver, Canada
Julian Assange: The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.
rajiv1857 Hi, Is the game that you are caught up in winnable? Technically, can you keep playing hide and seek with the powers that be when services and service providers are directly or indirectly under government control or vulnerable to pressure - like Amazon? Also, if you get "taken out" - and that could be technical, not necessarily physical - what are the alternatives for your cache of material? Is there a 'second line' of activists in place that would continue the campaign? Is your material 'dispersed' so that taking out one cache would not necessarily mean the end of the game?
Julian Assange: The Cable Gate archive has been spread, along with significant material from the US and other countries to over 100,000 people in encrypted form. If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically. Further, the Cable Gate archives is in the hands of multiple news organisations. History will win. The world will be elevated to a better place. Will we survive? That depends on you.
That's it every one, thanks for all your questions and comments. Julian Assange is sorry that he can't answer every question but he has tried to cover as much territory as possible. Thanks for your patience with our earlier technical difficulties.
© 2010 Guardian News and Media Limited

[Ben]

What, And CBS-NBC=ABC-CNN-FOX doesn't?

Part of the problem with the mainstream and corporate media is concision. As Noam Chomsky explicates:


YouTube - Noam Chomsky on "Concision" in the US Media (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cceC3DeFcY)

[Ben]

YouTube - Noam Chomsky - A brief history of the popular media (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To9BDHV-h3w)

[onmyknees]

Not sure how we went from a reprobate like Assange to Noam Chomsky, but it appears you're trying to conflate the two. Stop while you're ahead Ben...you're overthinking this. Assange is no hero so spare us his self serving interviews. His motives are a deep political anti western agenda, and greed... and probably a deep hunger to be recognized and renowned... just a shamless narcissist.
You've hooked your cart to the wrong horse.

[Coroner]

Anti-Western agenda? You´re a prime example of a person who has been fed enough with fear by right-wing media propaganda. Is there any other country in the world where people defend their authorities so much like in America? Always funny with those right-wingers: they´re anti-government (Tea Party) and suddenly pro-government (Wikileaks/Assange). And take a look into Noam Chomsky´s books because he´s the only intellectual your country has.

[fred41]

Anti-Western agenda? You´re a prime example of a person who has been fed enough with fear by right-wing media propaganda. Is there any other country in the world where people defend their authorities so much like in America? Always funny with those right-wingers: they´re anti-government (Tea Party) and suddenly pro-government (Wikileaks/Assange). And take a look into Noam Chomsky´s books because he´s the only intellectual your country has.

Because he doesn't agree with you he must be a right winger? You don't think that there are plenty of Anti-western people in the world?

...and there are PLENTY of countries in the world that are far, far more nationalistic than the U.S.....even in good ole Europe.

[onmyknees]

Anti-Western agenda? You´re a prime example of a person who has been fed enough with fear by right-wing media propaganda. Is there any other country in the world where people defend their authorities so much like in America? Always funny with those right-wingers: they´re anti-government (Tea Party) and suddenly pro-government (Wikileaks/Assange). And take a look into Noam Chomsky´s books because he´s the only intellectual your country has.

here's a guy from Austria telling me Chomsky is the only intellectual "your" country has !! LMAO. What you mean to say is he's the only intellectual you agree with !! Your pool of knowledge is painfully limited if you really believe that. What you need to learn about this country is that anti government does not mean anti American.

The irony of this episode is it took a worm like Assange for me to strangely find myself on the same side as Hillary Clinton and Obama. There aren't many people who could do that. Since I am of the opinion that this will ultimately hurt America...thus difference between anti-government and anti American. Get it ?????

Your gratuitous swipe at "right wingers and Tea Partiers" is revealing. This has little if anything to do with right and left as I've tried to explain to you above. Maybe you need a time out from all those intellectuals you're studying and pull your head out your ass !! And the only thing I really fear is dupes like you !!!

[Coroner]

Because he doesn't agree with you he must be a right winger? You don't think that there are plenty of Anti-western people in the world?

...and there are PLENTY of countries in the world that are far, far more nationalistic than the U.S.....even in good ole Europe.

I´m not drawing conclusions from single posts. Of course, there are far more nationalistic countries in the world, even in Europe, but here it´s called nationalism while they call it patriotism in America.



here's a guy from Austria telling me Chomsky is the only intellectual "your" country has !! LMAO. What you mean to say is he's the only intellectual you agree with !! Your pool of knowledge is painfully limited if you really believe that. What you need to learn about this country is that anti government does not mean anti American.

You have lots of irresponsible self-proclaimed intellectuals but Noam Chomsky is one of the very few truly critical minds. Another one was Howard Zinn but he already passed away. Sure, anti-government does not mean anti-American but anti-war, anti-Republican, anti-Bush, anti-Reagan, anti-imperialism, anti-corporate power, anti-capitalism etc. doesn´t equal anti-American either. It is in the minds of right-wingers. Oh, I forgot to add that being gay or atheist is also considered anti-American in the agenda of right-wingers. Nationalists world-wide share that ideology.


The irony of this episode is it took a worm like Assange for me to strangely find myself on the same side as Hillary Clinton and Obama. There aren't many people who could do that. Since I am of the opinion that this will ultimately hurt America...thus difference between anti-government and anti American. Get it ?????

How does it hurt America? How does it hurt you or any other average American? It surely hurts those who run the business and you are supposed to know what they´re doing behind closed doors in your name, yet you attack people who provide you that information.


Your gratuitous swipe at "right wingers and Tea Partiers" is revealing. This has little if anything to do with right and left as I've tried to explain to you above. Maybe you need a time out from all those intellectuals you're studying and pull your head out your ass !! And the only thing I really fear is dupes like you !!!

It has nothing to do with right and left wing (btw, your perception of left and right wing is pretty limited) but it´s obvious where the attacks come from. I hope WikiLeaks reveals more about Austrian politicians, too.

[Ben]

Julian Assange is going after power systems. And power systems, as Noam Chomsky has stated, are going to defend themselves.

YouTube - Is Julian Assange the New Revolutionary? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRSxAazGOz8)

[onmyknees]

Julian Assange is going after power systems. And power systems, as Noam Chomsky has stated, are going to defend themselves.

YouTube - Is Julian Assange the New Revolutionary? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRSxAazGOz8)


You're so delusional it's almost not worth engaging sycophants like you. I'll confront you with facts....but facts are just things that get in your way. You're far more interested in theory. I'm guessing you're in hiding like your hero? ....Sitting in a dark basement fearing the sound of the black ops choppers on their way to take you to a nondescript building at Langley for questioning? LMAO.

Here's just the first of what are sure to be many dangerous real life implications your revolutionary hero has caused....Since you're such a proponent of what Assange did, I think you owe us an explanation on what should be done to you, and to Assange if Defense Minster Murr and his family are found murdered...which is a real possibility.

From The LA Times....

LEBANON: Wikileaks reveals cable saying defense minister gave Israel invasion advice [Updated] (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/12/hezbollah-israel-murr-lebanon-united-states-war.html)

December 2, 2010 | 7:33 am
Lebanon's Defense Minister Elias Murr told Americans the army would stay out of the way if Israel tried to wipe out Hezbollah, according to a secret March 2008 conversation revealed in a diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks (http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/216464).
[Updated at 7:53 a.m.: The cable originated from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut and was sent to the State Department in Washington.]
"Making clear that he was not responsible for passing messages to Israel, Murr told us that Israel would do well to avoid two things when it comes for Hizbollah," the cable read.
"One, it must not touch the Blue Line or the UNSCR 1701 areas as this will keep Hizbollah out of these areas," the memo read, referring to the southern Lebanese area now patrolled by thousands of international troops.
"Two, Israel cannot bomb bridges and infrastructure in the Christian areas," Murr was cited as saying.
The exact nature of Hezbollah's relationship to the state is not entirely clear, although the group's aim of confronting Israel is enshrined in the government policy statement and enjoys support across Lebanon.

A 2006 war was fought mainly between the Israeli Defense Forces and Hezbollah forces while the Lebanese army stood back. Any assistance or cooperation between the Lebanese army and Israel would be considered treason by many Lebanese, and Murr's assessments could easily be read as tacit collaboration.
The document is especially incriminating as Murr, a member of Lebanon's Christian community, is a presidential appointee, part of a supposedly neutral third bloc in the government.
"Murr is trying to ascertain how long an offensive would be required to clean out Hizballah... The LAF will move to pre-position food, money, and water with these units so they can stay on their bases when Israel comes for Hizbollah -- discreetly, Murr added," the cable read. "For Murr, the LAF's strategic objective was to survive a three week war 'completely intact' and able to take over once Hizbollah's militia has been destroyed."
The cable was published Thursday by the Lebanese daily Al Akhbar, which was given an advance copy of the documents by WikiLeaks.
-- Meris Lutz (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/11/meris-lutz.html) in Beirut

[scroller]

Figured I'd come through and just briefly post some links to people I agree with regarding Wikileaks.

U.S. Rep. Ron Paul: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20024605-503544.html
Reporters Without Borders: http://en.rsf.org/wikileaks-hounded-04-12-2010,38958.html
Jack Shafer, Slate.com: http://www.slate.com/id/2276312/
Will Wilkinson, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Glen Greenwald, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Jesse Walker, Reason.com: http://reason.com/blog/2010/11/30/diplomats-fret-about-german-cl

[Ben]

Figured I'd come through and just briefly post some links to people I agree with regarding Wikileaks.

U.S. Rep. Ron Paul: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20024605-503544.html
Reporters Without Borders: http://en.rsf.org/wikileaks-hounded-04-12-2010,38958.html
Jack Shafer, Slate.com: http://www.slate.com/id/2276312/
Will Wilkinson, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Glen Greenwald, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Jesse Walker, Reason.com: http://reason.com/blog/2010/11/30/diplomats-fret-about-german-cl

I like Ron Paul... and Glenn Greenwald. Thanks!!!

[Jericho]

Figured I'd come through and just briefly post some links to people I agree with regarding Wikileaks.

U.S. Rep. Ron Paul: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20024605-503544.html
Reporters Without Borders: http://en.rsf.org/wikileaks-hounded-04-12-2010,38958.html
Jack Shafer, Slate.com: http://www.slate.com/id/2276312/
Will Wilkinson, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Glen Greenwald, Economist.com: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/11/overseeing_state_secrecy
Jesse Walker, Reason.com: http://reason.com/blog/2010/11/30/diplomats-fret-about-german-cl


Can't really say I give a shit about Ron Paul one or the other, but he's bang on with,

"In a society where truth becomes treason, then we're in big trouble.

[Ben]

Again, Ron Paul:

“In a free society we're supposed to know the truth. In a society where truth becomes treason, then we're in big trouble. And now, people who are revealing the truth are getting into trouble for it.
"This whole notion that Assange, who's an Australian, that we want to prosecute him for treason. I mean, aren't they jumping to a wild conclusion? This is media, isn't it? I mean, why don't we prosecute The New York Times or anybody that releases this.”

[Ben]

YouTube - Ron Paul calls Wikileaks Heros (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5b7M04xPRE)

[giovanni_hotel]

Secrecy has a place in any democracy, and no state government can be run without refusing to disclose every communication that takes place between allies and confederates.
It's called foreign policy.

To believe otherwise is reckless.

[onmyknees]

Secrecy has a place in any democracy, and no state government can be run without refusing to disclose every communication that takes place between allies and confederates.
It's called foreign policy.

To believe otherwise is reckless.

I think you've summed 18 pages of posts us rather concisely GH. I'm hard pressed to understand why they view this guy as some feedom fighter when he recklessly and indiscriminately released these documents. At least the NY Times was judicious about it.
Do thier lives somehow now have a deeper meaning now that they know the Lebanese Foreign Minister was communicating secretly with the Israelis regarding terrorist organizations ? How about it Ben ? When somebody winds up with a bullet in the head, maybe they'll stop the foolish notion that they have not only the desire, but the right to know our governments and other governments classified, secret discussions. My only regret is it won't be a member of their family, but someone else's.

[Jericho]

My only regret is it won't be a member of their family, but someone else's.

So, really, you have no qualms about an innocent person dying, you'd just prefer it to be someone of your choosing?

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your bluster...Carry on! :shrug

[fred41]

Secrecy has a place in any democracy, and no state government can be run without refusing to disclose every communication that takes place between allies and confederates.
It's called foreign policy.

To believe otherwise is stupid.


...fixed it.

[fred41]

So, really, you have no qualms about an innocent person dying, you'd just prefer it to be someone of your choosing?

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your bluster...Carry on! :shrug

That's not what he's saying at all......basically he's saying the opposite.

[GroobySteven]

I think you've summed 18 pages of posts us rather concisely GH. I'm hard pressed to understand why they view this guy as some feedom fighter when he recklessly and indiscriminately released these documents. At least the NY Times was judicious about it.
Do thier lives somehow now have a deeper meaning now that they know the Lebanese Foreign Minister was communicating secretly with the Israelis regarding terrorist organizations ? How about it Ben ? When somebody winds up with a bullet in the head, maybe they'll stop the foolish notion that they have not only the desire, but the right to know our governments and other governments classified, secret discussions. My only regret is it won't be a member of their family, but someone else's.

He may have summed it up but it's beside the point. I agree that to make many of these policies work, like in business, that secrets need to be kept but when any government sells it's people one story or fact and then delibrately does the opposite without disclosing it, then there is a problem and sometimes it's decades after that we find out the truth. It is the media's job to keep double-checking the standards of our leaderships and politicians otherwise we let them run on blind faith.

The point is, journalism is free from prosecution (when stating the truth) and a foundation of our society. If we start allowing Governments to decide what can be published and to prosecute journalists/media outlets then where does it end? I don't think that situation needs spelling out.

The typical over-reaction about this, is what's stirring these ridiculous calls for assassinations (and yes, Huckleberry's comments need to be looked at as criminal) and why people keep getting confused with Patriotism and supporting the government.

If only one of these papers had been released in the Guardian, BBC, NY Times or similar newspapers over a period of months, and they were quoted as coming from different sources, nobody would really care, as they don't really say anything special.
Wikileaks has yet to put anyone's live in danger, right?
Wikileaks is not a terrorist organisation (Palin!)?
They are a news outlet.

The issue is with the source of the leaks and how they could have been leaked and it's there, that people need to look and make decisions about prosecutions and poor security.

[steeveX]

Anti-Western agenda? You´re a prime example of a person who has been fed enough with fear by right-wing media propaganda. Is there any other country in the world where people defend their authorities so much like in America? Always funny with those right-wingers: they´re anti-government (Tea Party) and suddenly pro-government (Wikileaks/Assange). And take a look into Noam Chomsky´s books because he´s the only intellectual your country has.

This is rich, coroner being a prime example of an ignorant European.

He lives in a city that only two months ago had an open right wing party score nearly 30% of the votes in the mayor elections, but thinks he could lecture yanks on right wing policies.

Great, he lives in a country which had a right wing/conservative government between 2000 and 2006/7, which has spawned paranoid right wingers like Haider and Strache. Coroner, you are a joke.

[lisaparadise]

Secrecy has a place in any democracy, and no state government can be run without refusing to disclose every communication that takes place between allies and confederates.
It's called foreign policy.

To believe otherwise is reckless.exactly trouble is theres too many messed up minds in here this guy should be dead by now and the idiots who think hes some kinda freedom fighter needs there heads read cause they aernt too smart now are they?

[african1]

no more donations...Paypal closed their account.

[onmyknees]

He may have summed it up but it's beside the point. I agree that to make many of these policies work, like in business, that secrets need to be kept but when any government sells it's people one story or fact and then delibrately does the opposite without disclosing it, then there is a problem and sometimes it's decades after that we find out the truth. It is the media's job to keep double-checking the standards of our leaderships and politicians otherwise we let them run on blind faith.

The point is, journalism is free from prosecution (when stating the truth) and a foundation of our society. If we start allowing Governments to decide what can be published and to prosecute journalists/media outlets then where does it end? I don't think that situation needs spelling out.

The typical over-reaction about this, is what's stirring these ridiculous calls for assassinations (and yes, Huckleberry's comments need to be looked at as criminal) and why people keep getting confused with Patriotism and supporting the government.

If only one of these papers had been released in the Guardian, BBC, NY Times or similar newspapers over a period of months, and they were quoted as coming from different sources, nobody would really care, as they don't really say anything special.
Wikileaks has yet to put anyone's live in danger, right?
Wikileaks is not a terrorist organisation (Palin!)?
They are a news outlet.

The issue is with the source of the leaks and how they could have been leaked and it's there, that people need to look and make decisions about prosecutions and poor security.


With all due respect seanchai, that IS the point. You seem to want it both ways. You concede the need for governments to communicate on national security matters in secrecy, yet you see no danger at all with the press releasing anything they deem as newsworthy. My problem with all this is ...who arbitrates that...? You ? me ? Assange? The BBC ?
Under your thesis, it would seem appropriate for the NY Times or the BBC to disclose top secret documents as long as "they" felt the public should know. Where do we draw the line? This may get down to who you trust more...the NY Times or the government. Although many in the press take the special rights granted under our constitution judiciously, they're a commercial enterprise and like any other will do things ultimately in their best interests and that of the stock holders...that fact , and the fact that most of these news organizations have deep political agendas seems to be the problem with your summation. Unquestionably Assange has a political agenda. To ignore that seems to be devoid of reality.

While I agree that much of the document dump seems to be innocuous, much of it more gossipy than riveting, it's a bit early for you to be making decorations that "Wikileaks has yet to put anyone's live in danger, right?" I've pointed out two very dramatic situations to the contrary. The fact of the matter is we may never know the unintended consequences of Assange's actions.

The irony in all this seems to me...Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has positioned himself as a left-wing whistle blower whose life mission is to call the United States to task for the evil it has wreaked throughout the world. But after reading about the diplomatic cables revealed over the past several days, I wonder if Assange isn't a double agent of some sort. LOL. The documents seem to reveal that Iran is even a far greater threat to world stability than our government has heretofore told us. That's certainly not groundbreaking news to me, but it may be to the left wing in this country, and in yours who seem content to ignore Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and hope he goes away.

Ultimately..I think Americans skepticism of government ranges from slight to deep distrust. Our constitution tells us to be watchful and dissent. In the case of national security, and classified and secret information, we balance our need and right to know with the governments need to secrecy. It's a balancing act. If we allow our government ever so little latitude in this area, I don't think that's the end of our republic as we know it.

Respectfully......

[scroller]

Note that the exact documents being released and any redactions made are based on advance feedback and collaboration with the major mass-media outlets. So if you want to kill Wikileaks you have to likewise knock off Le Monde, El Pais, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times, because they have all the cables already and are cooperating on what to release, and when, on Wikileaks.



Respected media outlets collaborate with WikiLeaks
(AP) – 2 days ago

PARIS (AP) — The diplomatic records exposed on the WikiLeaks website this week reveal not only secret government communications, but also an extraordinary collaboration between some of the world's most respected media outlets and the WikiLeaks organization.

Unlike earlier disclosures by WikiLeaks of tens of thousands of secret government military records, the group is releasing only a trickle of documents at a time from a trove of a quarter-million, and only after considering advice from five news organizations with which it chose to share all of the material.

"They are releasing the documents we selected," Le Monde's managing editor, Sylvie Kauffmann, said in an interview at the newspaper's Paris headquarters.

WikiLeaks turned over all of the classified U.S. State Department cables it obtained to Le Monde, El Pais in Spain, The Guardian in Britain and Der Spiegel in Germany. The Guardian shared the material with The New York Times, and the five news organizations have been working together to plan the timing of their reports.

They also have been advising WikiLeaks on which documents to release publicly and what redactions to make to those documents, Kauffmann and others involved in the arrangement said.http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0Vruimmvy8loGklsz34QyGDKMDA?docId=120c7bf5d 3a34dbaadf1280dace2e456

[GroobySteven]

With all due respect seanchai, that IS the point. You seem to want it both ways. You concede the need for governments to communicate on national security matters in secrecy, yet you see no danger at all with the press releasing anything they deem as newsworthy. My problem with all this is ...who arbitrates that...? You ? me ? Assange? The BBC ?
Under your thesis, it would seem appropriate for the NY Times or the BBC to disclose top secret documents as long as "they" felt the public should know. Where do we draw the line? This may get down to who you trust more...the NY Times or the government. Although many in the press take the special rights granted under our constitution judiciously, they're a commercial enterprise and like any other will do things ultimately in their best interests and that of the stock holders...that fact , and the fact that most of these news organizations have deep political agendas seems to be the problem with your summation. Unquestionably Assange has a political agenda. To ignore that seems to be devoid of reality.

While I agree that much of the document dump seems to be innocuous, much of it more gossipy than riveting, it's a bit early for you to be making decorations that "Wikileaks has yet to put anyone's live in danger, right?" I've pointed out two very dramatic situations to the contrary. The fact of the matter is we may never know the unintended consequences of Assange's actions.

The irony in all this seems to me...Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has positioned himself as a left-wing whistle blower whose life mission is to call the United States to task for the evil it has wreaked throughout the world. But after reading about the diplomatic cables revealed over the past several days, I wonder if Assange isn't a double agent of some sort. LOL. The documents seem to reveal that Iran is even a far greater threat to world stability than our government has heretofore told us. That's certainly not groundbreaking news to me, but it may be to the left wing in this country, and in yours who seem content to ignore Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and hope he goes away.

Ultimately..I think Americans skepticism of government ranges from slight to deep distrust. Our constitution tells us to be watchful and dissent. In the case of national security, and classified and secret information, we balance our need and right to know with the governments need to secrecy. It's a balancing act. If we allow our government ever so little latitude in this area, I don't think that's the end of our republic as we know it.

Respectfully......

I'm saying if the media gets a hold of this content - and it's newsworthy than they should print it, without fear of people calling for their assassinations.
The issue isn't the media, it's the endemic lying of Governments to their people, which occassionally are needed but more often not (ie; Blair selling the UK on the Iraq War). People need to investigate the leak, not the publisher.

[hippifried]

Much ado about nothing.

[Ben]

The Shameful Attacks on Julian Assange

by David Samuels

Julian Assange and Pfc Bradley Manning have done a huge public service by making hundreds of thousands of classified U.S. government documents available on Wikileaks -- and, predictably, no one is grateful. Manning, a former army intelligence analyst in Iraq, faces up to 52 years in prison. He is currently being held in solitary confinement at a military base in Quantico, Virginia, where he is not allowed to see his parents or other outside visitors.
Assange, the organizing brain of Wikileaks, enjoys a higher degree of freedom living as a hunted man in England under the close surveillance of domestic and foreign intelligence agencies -- but probably not for long. Not since President Richard Nixon directed his minions to go after Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg and New York Times reporter Neil Sheehan - "a vicious antiwar type," an enraged Nixon called him on the Watergate tapes -- has a working journalist and his source been subjected to the kind of official intimidation and threats that have been directed at Assange and Manning by high-ranking members of the Obama Administration.
Published reports suggest that a joint Justice Department-Pentagon team of investigators is exploring the possibility of charging Assange under the Espionage Act, which could lead to decades in jail. "This is not saber-rattling," said Attorney General Eric Holder, commenting on the possibility that Assange will be prosecuted by the government. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called the Wikileaks disclosures "an attack on the international community" that endangered innocent people. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs suggested in somewhat Orwellian fashion that "such disclosures put at risk our diplomats, intelligence professionals, and people around the world who come to the United States for assistance in promoting democracy and open government."
It is dispiriting and upsetting for anyone who cares about the American tradition of a free press to see Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton and Robert Gibbs turn into H.R. Haldeman, John Erlichman and John Dean. We can only pray that we won't soon be hit with secret White House tapes of Obama drinking scotch and slurring his words while calling Assange bad names.
Unwilling to let the Democrats adopt Nixon's anti-democratic, press-hating legacy as their own, Republican Congressman Peter King asserted that the publication of classified diplomatic cables is "worse even than a physical attack on Americans" and that Wikileaks should be officially designed as a terrorist organization. Mike Huckabee followed such blather to its logical conclusion by suggesting that Bradley Manning should be executed.
But the truly scandalous and shocking response to the Wikileaks documents has been that of other journalists, who make the Obama Administration sound like the ACLU. In a recent article in The New Yorker, the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Steve Coll sniffed that "the archives that WikiLeaks has published are much less significant than the Pentagon Papers were in their day" while depicting Assange as a "self-aggrandizing control-freak" whose website "lacks an ethical culture that is consonant with the ideals of free media." Channeling Richard Nixon, Coll labeled Wikileaks' activities - formerly known as journalism - by his newly preferred terms of "vandalism" and "First Amendment-inspired subversion."
Coll's invective is hardly unique, In fact, it was only a pale echo of the language used earlier this year by a columnist at his former employer, The Washington Post. In a column titled "WikiLeaks Must Be Stopped," Mark Thiessen wrote that "WikiLeaks is not a news organization; it is a criminal enterprise," and urged that the site should be shut down "and its leadership brought to justice." The dean of American foreign correspondents, John Burns of The New York Times, with two Pulitzer Prizes to his credit, contributed a profile of Assange which used terms like "nearly delusional grandeur" to describe Wikileaks' founder. The Times' normally mild-mannered David Brooks asserted in his column this week that "Assange seems to be an old-fashioned anarchist" and worried that Wikileaks will "damage the global conversation."
For his part, Assange has not been shy about expressing his contempt for the failure of traditional reporting to inform the public, and his belief in the utility of his own methods. "How is it that a team of five people has managed to release to the public more suppressed information, at that level, than the rest of the world press combined?" he told The Sydney Morning Herald. "It's disgraceful."
Assange may or may not be grandiose, paranoid and delusional - terms that might be fairly applied at one time or another to most prominent investigative reporters of my acquaintance. But the fact that so many prominent old school journalists are attacking him with such unbridled force is a symptom of the failure of traditional reporting methods to penetrate a culture of official secrecy that has grown by leaps and bounds since 9/11, and threatens the functioning of a free press as a cornerstone of democracy.
The true importance of Wikileaks -- and the key to understanding the motivations and behavior of its founder -- lies not in the contents of the latest document dump but in the technology that made it possible, which has already shown itself to be a potent weapon to undermine official lies and defend human rights. Since 1997, Assange has devoted a great deal of his time to inventing encryption systems that make it possible for human rights workers and others to protect and upload sensitive data. The importance of Assange's efforts to human rights workers in the field were recognized last year by Amnesty International, which gave him its Media Award for the Wikileaks investigation The Cry of Blood - Extra Judicial Killings and Disappearances, which documented the killing and disappearance of 500 young men in Kenya by the police, with the apparent connivance of the country's political leadership.
Yet the difficulties of documenting official murder in Kenya pale next to the task of penetrating the secret world that threatens to swallow up informed public discourse in this country about America's wars. The 250,000 cables that Wikileaks published this month represent only a drop in the bucket that holds the estimated 16 million documents that are classified top secret by the federal government every year. According to a three-part investigative series by Dana Priest and William Arkin published earlier this year in The Washington Post, an estimated 854,000 people now hold top secret clearance - more than 1.5 times the population of Washington, D.C. "The top-secret world the government created in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, has become so large, so unwieldy and so secretive," the Post concluded, "that no one knows how much money it costs, how many people it employs, how many programs exist within it or exactly how many agencies do the same work."
The result of this classification mania is the division of the public into two distinct groups: those who are privy to the actual conduct of American policy, but are forbidden to write or talk about it, and the uninformed public, which becomes easy prey for the official lies exposed in the Wikileaks documents: The failure of American counterinsurgency programs in Afghanistan, the involvement of China and North Korea in the Iranian nuclear program, the likely failure of attempts to separate Syria from Iran, the involvement of Iran in destabilizing Iraq, the anti-Western orientation of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and other tenets of American foreign policy under both Bush and Obama.
It is a fact of the current media landscape that the chilling effect of threatened legal action routinely stops reporters and editors from pursuing stories that might serve the public interest - and anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying. Every honest reporter and editor in America knows that the fact that most news organizations are broke, combined with the increasing threat of aggressive legal action by deep-pocketed entities, private and public, has made it much harder for good reporters to do their jobs, and ripped a hole in the delicate fabric that holds our democracy together.
The idea that Wikileaks is a threat to the traditional practice of reporting misses the point of what Assange and his co-workers have put together - a powerful tool that can help reporters circumvent the legal barriers that are making it hard for them to do their job. Even as he criticizes the evident failures of the mainstream press, Assange insists that Wikileaks should facilitate traditional reporting and analysis. "We're the step before the first person (investigates)," he explained, when accepting Amnesty International's award for exposing police killings in Kenya. "Then someone who is familiar with that material needs to step forward to investigate it and put it in political context. Once that is done, then it becomes of public interest."
Wikileaks is a powerful new way for reporters and human rights advocates to leverage global information technology systems to break the heavy veil of government and corporate secrecy that is slowly suffocating the American press. The likely arrest of Assange in Britain on dubious Swedish sex crimes charges has nothing to do with the importance of the system he has built, and which the US government seems intent on destroying with tactics more appropriate to the Communist Party of China -- pressuring Amazon to throw the site off their servers, and, one imagines by launching the powerful DDOS attacks that threatened to stop visitors from reading the pilfered cables.
In a memorandum entitled "Transparency and Open Government" addressed to the heads of Federal departments and agencies and posted on WhiteHouse.gov, President Obama instructed that "Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing." The Administration would be wise to heed his words -- and to remember how badly the vindictive prosecution of Daniel Ellsberg ended for the Nixon Administration. And American reporters, Pulitzer Prizes and all, should be ashamed for joining in the outraged chorus that defends a burgeoning secret world whose existence is a threat to democracy.
© 2010 The Atlantic
David Samuels is a regular contributor to The Atlantic.

[trish]

I agree with hippiefried that this last release from WikiLeaks was much ado about...I’ll say very little (the increased difficulty of applying leverage against Iran’s nuclear program being perhaps the most egregious consequence). Whistle blowers are an important asset to public power. More often than not they should be encouraged, acknowledged for the good they do and protected.

Whistle blowing always entails making public what is secret... and sometimes even what is classified. But is exposing secrets and classified information always whistle-blowing? Is the complete transparency of all information a viable philosophical position? Should we be supporting an organization dedicated to stealing classified information and publishing it wholesale without regard for the consequences? Perhaps I’m wrong, but this seems to me to be the philosophy under which WikiLeaks is currently operating. I don’t really see why transparency is a value that should in all cases trump secrecy or privacy regardless of consequences. But that’s just me.

I’m not advocating that someone should assassinate Assange (indeed if you’re thinking about it...DON’T). I’m not advocating his accomplice now in the clink should spend his life in prison (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he will); but I’m not about to shower WikiLeaks with accolades of a job well done either. Personally I think Assange needs to rethink what it means to be a true whistle-blower. He needs to realize that making all things transparent is not a laudable goal and that being the Errant Knight of Transparency does not absolve him of the consequences that transparency sometimes accrues.

[Ben]

Julian Assange has said he wants transparency. He wants an open government. He wants democracy. It'd be nice to experience meaningful democracy. But then again, well, Americans don't really take democracy seriously.

Yes! Julian Assange has made some mistakes in the past. Not omitting the names of Afghan citizens. That's why he is working with Der Spiegel and The Guardian. Maybe we should throw the Editor of The Guardian in a puny prison cell.)

And:

(Isidor Feinstein Stone: "All Governments lie.")

And:

The so-called mainstream press did NOT do its job with respect to Iraq. They were -- and are -- serving the industrial-military-corporate complex. The role of a journalist is to EXPOSE corporate and government wrongdoing, to expose crimes. Otherwise, well, what's the point of a press? Oh!, I know. To give us updates on Paris Hilton's shopping sprees. To inform us about Tom Cruise's love life.
And Eric Margolis: "Meanwhile, WikiLeaks is at least doing in part what America’s elected leaders and supposed free media should have been doing: telling citizens what’s really going on. Let’s see what other squirmy secrets will be exposed when the next rock is turned over."

And:

Was Daniel Ellsberg a criminal??????? Or a hero? Well, he was and is a hero.

And:

Noam Chomsky on the Wikileaks dump: "... one of the major reasons for government secrecy is to protect the government from its own population."
More Chomsky: "... reveals (is) the profound hatred for democracy on the part of our political leadership."

More Eric Margolis: "For cynical professionals, WikiLeaks showed business as usual. They reaffirm that great powers really want obedience, not international cooperation or improved relations."
And Eric Margolis once again: "WikiLeaks has given the public a sharper view of Afghanistan as a cesspool of corruption and drug-dealing."

And:

Quotes from Thomas Jefferson:

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

"Information is the currency of democracy."

[trish]

Whenever people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government; but to be well informed do we need to know the exact details of our military's troop movements or the names of Afghans lending us support, or that Khadafi is schtumping a blond nurse? Information relevant to governance is the currency of democracy.

[mbf]

I agree with hippiefried that this last release from WikiLeaks was much ado about...I’ll say very little (the increased difficulty of applying leverage against Iran’s nuclear program being perhaps the most egregious consequence). Whistle blowers are an important asset to public power. More often than not they should be encouraged, acknowledged for the good they do and protected.

Whistle blowing always entails making public what is secret... and sometimes even what is classified. But is exposing secrets and classified information always whistle-blowing? Is the complete transparency of all information a viable philosophical position? Should we be supporting an organization dedicated to stealing classified information and publishing it wholesale without regard for the consequences? Perhaps I’m wrong, but this seems to me to be the philosophy under which WikiLeaks is currently operating. I don’t really see why transparency is a value that should in all cases trump secrecy or privacy regardless of consequences. But that’s just me.

I’m not advocating that someone should assassinate Assange (indeed if you’re thinking about it...DON’T). I’m not advocating his accomplice now in the clink should spend his life in prison (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he will); but I’m not about to shower WikiLeaks with accolades of a job well done either. Personally I think Assange needs to rethink what it means to be a true whistle-blower. He needs to realize that making all things transparent is not a laudable goal and that being the Errant Knight of Transparency does not absolve him of the consequences that transparency sometimes accrues.

Trish is a smart cookie

[Ben]

Trish is a smart cookie

Trish is indeed very smart....

[trish]

Okay, I can't stand it. Sometimes I'm a complete and utter asshole.

[Jericho]

Information relevant to governance is the currency of democracy.

(Up to a point, i agree), but, there's the sticking point, init.
Who decides what's relevant?

[mbf]

Okay, I can't stand it. Sometimes I'm a complete and utter asshole.

Where and when? Can't remember any incidence .....

or r u the type to play nice on online forums, and kick old ladies into a passing truck in real life?

[trish]

(Up to a point, i agree), but, there's the sticking point, init.
Who decides what's relevant?
Right now it looks like it's Julian Assange who gets to decide.

[Ben]

Progressive radio host and author Thom Hartmann: 'Michael Copps, the Commissioner of the FCC, recently told Katty Kay of the BBC that we're not producing "news" the way we were decades ago, but instead our media have a "substance abuse" problem, cranking out only infotainment designed to generate profits. Copps said it's putting our very democracy at risk.'
In Europe revenues are largely generated [speaking specifically about newspapers] by the readers and not the advertisers.

[Coroner]

This is rich, coroner being a prime example of an ignorant European.

He lives in a city that only two months ago had an open right wing party score nearly 30% of the votes in the mayor elections, but thinks he could lecture yanks on right wing policies.

Great, he lives in a country which had a right wing/conservative government between 2000 and 2006/7, which has spawned paranoid right wingers like Haider and Strache. Coroner, you are a joke.

So, because we had a right-wing government and a right-wing party hitting almost 30% in Vienna, I´m not allowed to criticize American policies? Unlike the US, Austria does not invade some random countries, obstruct or manipulate the UN Security Council, support reactionary dictators worldwide etc. In brief, Austria is far away and has no influence on American politics whatsoever. The US, however, are involving lots of countries, including EU members, into conflicts that only serve their own oligarchy, so as an EU citizen I might say a few words. I´m very critical of my country and I was not among those who voted for Strache and his racist FPÖ. The high election result in favor of Strache´s party was a shock in Vienna and is still debated in public, although the social-democrats knocked them by going into coalition with the Green Party. Two bloody world wars were caused by European imperialists and nationalism played a huge role to enflame and mobilize the masses. Nationalism, meaning right-wing, is a historically refuted failed ideology. There was no war on US territory since the civil war from 1861 to 1865 which is why so many American people are not aware of the consequences of nationalism and right-wing proganda, yet so many have to suffer from that in your country: the poor, African-Americans, immigrants, sexual minorities, non-religious. They´re all granted rights in the constution but the facts provide us a different illustration of reality.
WikiLeaks activists and supporters are being attacked and accused of treason while Goebbels' students in hate speech like Glenn Beck just "use their right of free speech".
This post went a little bit off-topic and I´m amazed you even heard of fucktards like Strache and Haider since it´s pretty much known that American people do not follow political events outside their own country or direct involvement. That was also well-planned by those who run the public relations and educational system to keep you isolated from the world, otherwise right-wing psychos wouldn´t confuse welfare state with socialism and having millions of citizens believing them.

[El Nino]

The whole wikileaks fiasco is created by an intelligence agency operation to divert, distract and appease the masses. There is no true secretive information revealed as info of this caliber is never stored or communicated via digital media. True Black operations, their content and subjects are disposable. This whole thing is not by chance, but a calculated and contrived endeavor conducted by the hands of an unseen group of others... not one rogue individual. "Nothing in politics happens by accident". Remember that next time you turn on nightly news.

[phobun]

The whole wikileaks fiasco is created by an intelligence agency operation to divert, distract and appease the masses. There is no true secretive information revealed as info of this caliber is never stored or communicated via digital media. True Black operations, their content and subjects are disposable. This whole thing is not by chance, but a calculated and contrived endeavor conducted by the hands of an unseen group of others... not one rogue individual. "Nothing in politics happens by accident". Remember that next time you turn on nightly news.


You're a paranoid conspiracy monger. The irony is that as an easily manipulated lab-rat, you depend on research dollars from the big, evil US government for your livelihood.

[phobun]

This post went a little bit off-topic and I´m amazed you even heard of fucktards like Strache and Haider since it´s pretty much known that American people do not follow political events outside their own country or direct involvement. That was also well-planned by those who run the public relations and educational system to keep you isolated from the world,


You've made some great points in this thread, but this is a bit much...

[hippifried]

Okay, I can't stand it. Sometimes I'm a complete and utter asshole.
Oh? Post a pic! :praying:

[El Nino]

Haven't worked in a lab in 6 years Phobun, you prick. What I said regarding Wikileaks is true. Time will tell as it usually does. I am getting sick and tired of always being able to say "I told you so"... even tho I don't because it's kind of a jerky thing to do. I would hate to come off as a pretentious schmuck... I'm sure you know the type!

[CaliBoy951]

In my opinion he is nothing more than a "snitch".

He allows others to "rat out"or "snitch" information that they should keep to themselves.
If something is leaked and lives are in danger, then you must put a stop to that, at any cost.

He has stated more than once his hatred of the US Military, and I think the powers to be should send a "Lone Wolf" and take care of this snitch.

Funny, how snitches snitch, and then they want to be protected from those that they have "burned".... Could that be why Julian Assange has requested asylum in Switzerland?

I bet this time next year you wont hear much about Julian Assange, because one of these countries will eliminate this "high-tech terrorist".

But ask yourself what else would a snitch do, oh I don't know, maybe sexually violate women?

[Jericho]

Yeah, you're right.
Send Chuck Norris...He'll sort it! :rolleyes:

[thx1138]

Assange is being charged under a Swedish law that says consensual sex WITHOUT condoms is rape. Both women have stated they were not coerced in any way by Assange. I wonder if this law is secretly in place here in the US. Anything to throw more people into the criminal/justice system.

[thx1138]

link: http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/333

[Ben]

He can't -- and shouldn't -- go after the banks. They're sacred. And exceedingly caring.
I mean, Goldman Sachs is golden, is successful. We shouldn't go after successful banks. It reeks of jealousy.

YouTube - WikiLeaks Targeting Big Banks - MSNBC w/ Cenk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQI-BfZiKr8)

[Ben]

YouTube - Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange SNL parody in HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAxIH_H4PI)

[giovanni_hotel]

I heard that Assange's 'rape' charges consist of having CONSENTUAL sex without a condom!!!
Is that shit serious???
He's lucky someone hasn't put a bullet in his head.

[Ben]

Apparently this is true: "Assange's 'rape' charges consist of having CONSENTUAL sex without a condom!!!"

[phobun]

YouTube - Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange SNL parody in HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAxIH_H4PI)


That's hilarious.

On a side note, I've read that the CIA tried to start a rumor that Moammar Gaddafi was a crossdresser way back in the 1980s.

[pointblack]

When look into a woman's window they call me geekypeak

[Ben]

Published on Tuesday, December 7, 2010 by The Australian (http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mediadiary/index.php/australianmedia/comments/julian1/) The Truth Will Always Win

by Julian Assange

In 1958 a young Rupert Murdoch, then owner and editor of Adelaide's The News, wrote: "In the race between secrecy and truth, it seems inevitable that truth will always win."
His observation perhaps reflected his father Keith Murdoch's expose that Australian troops were being needlessly sacrificed by incompetent British commanders on the shores of Gallipoli. The British tried to shut him up but Keith Murdoch would not be silenced and his efforts led to the termination of the disastrous Gallipoli campaign.
Nearly a century later, WikiLeaks is also fearlessly publishing facts that need to be made public.
I grew up in a Queensland country town where people spoke their minds bluntly. They distrusted big government as something that could be corrupted if not watched carefully. The dark days of corruption in the Queensland government before the Fitzgerald inquiry are testimony to what happens when the politicians gag the media from reporting the truth.
These things have stayed with me. WikiLeaks was created around these core values. The idea, conceived in Australia, was to use internet technologies in new ways to report the truth.
WikiLeaks coined a new type of journalism: scientific journalism. We work with other media outlets to bring people the news, but also to prove it is true. Scientific journalism allows you to read a news story, then to click online to see the original document it is based on. That way you can judge for yourself: Is the story true? Did the journalist report it accurately?
Democratic societies need a strong media and WikiLeaks is part of that media. The media helps keep government honest. WikiLeaks has revealed some hard truths about the Iraq and Afghan wars, and broken stories about corporate corruption.
People have said I am anti-war: for the record, I am not. Sometimes nations need to go to war, and there are just wars. But there is nothing more wrong than a government lying to its people about those wars, then asking these same citizens to put their lives and their taxes on the line for those lies. If a war is justified, then tell the truth and the people will decide whether to support it.
If you have read any of the Afghan or Iraq war logs, any of the US embassy cables or any of the stories about the things WikiLeaks has reported, consider how important it is for all media to be able to report these things freely.
WikiLeaks is not the only publisher of the US embassy cables. Other media outlets, including Britain ‘s The Guardian, The New York Times, El Pais in Spain and Der Spiegel in Germany have published the same redacted cables.
Yet it is WikiLeaks, as the co-ordinator of these other groups, that has copped the most vicious attacks and accusations from the US government and its acolytes. I have been accused of treason, even though I am an Australian, not a US, citizen. There have been dozens of serious calls in the US for me to be "taken out" by US special forces. Sarah Palin says I should be "hunted down like Osama bin Laden", a Republican bill sits before the US Senate seeking to have me declared a "transnational threat" and disposed of accordingly. An adviser to the Canadian Prime Minister's office has called on national television for me to be assassinated. An American blogger has called for my 20-year-old son, here in Australia, to be kidnapped and harmed for no other reason than to get at me.
And Australians should observe with no pride the disgraceful pandering to these sentiments by Prime Minister Gillard and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have not had a word of criticism for the other media organisations. That is because The Guardian, The New York Times and Der Spiegel are old and large, while WikiLeaks is as yet young and small.
We are the underdogs. The Gillard government is trying to shoot the messenger because it doesn't want the truth revealed, including information about its own diplomatic and political dealings.
Has there been any response from the Australian government to the numerous public threats of violence against me and other WikiLeaks personnel? One might have thought an Australian prime minister would be defending her citizens against such things, but there have only been wholly unsubstantiated claims of illegality. The Prime Minister and especially the Attorney-General are meant to carry out their duties with dignity and above the fray. Rest assured, these two mean to save their own skins. They will not.
Every time WikiLeaks publishes the truth about abuses committed by US agencies, Australian politicians chant a provably false chorus with the State Department: "You'll risk lives! National security! You'll endanger troops!" Then they say there is nothing of importance in what WikiLeaks publishes. It can't be both. Which is it?
It is neither. WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time we have changed whole governments, but not a single person, as far as anyone is aware, has been harmed. But the US , with Australian government connivance, has killed thousands in the past few months alone.
US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates admitted in a letter to the US congress that no sensitive intelligence sources or methods had been compromised by the Afghan war logs disclosure. The Pentagon stated there was no evidence the WikiLeaks reports had led to anyone being harmed in Afghanistan. NATO in Kabul told CNN it couldn't find a single person who needed protecting. The Australian Department of Defence said the same. No Australian troops or sources have been hurt by anything we have published.
But our publications have been far from unimportant. The US diplomatic cables reveal some startling facts:
The US asked its diplomats to steal personal human material and information from UN officials and human rights groups, including DNA, fingerprints, iris scans, credit card numbers, internet passwords and ID photos, in violation of international treaties. Presumably Australian UN diplomats may be targeted, too.
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia asked the US Officials in Jordan and Bahrain want Iran ‘s nuclear program stopped by any means available.
Britain's Iraq inquiry was fixed to protect "US interests".
Sweden is a covert member of NATO and US intelligence sharing is kept from parliament.
The US is playing hardball to get other countries to take freed detainees from Guantanamo Bay . Barack Obama agreed to meet the Slovenian President only if Slovenia took a prisoner. Our Pacific neighbour Kiribati was offered millions of dollars to accept detainees.
In its landmark ruling in the Pentagon Papers case, the US Supreme Court said "only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government". The swirling storm around WikiLeaks today reinforces the need to defend the right of all media to reveal the truth.
Copyright 2010 News Limited
Julian Assange is the editor-in-chief of WikiLeaks.

[Ben]

Quoting constitutional attorney and blogger at Salon.com Glenn Greenwald: "... it’s being depicted in the media as some kind of an international manhunt that finally concluded. That’s what Matt Lauer announced this morning on NBC News, the international manhunt is over. The reality is that although this case has been around for quite some time, there was really only a valid arrest warrant for the first time in England, the country where he’s been located, as of yesterday, and last night his attorneys negotiated his turning himself in with the police department in London. So it was entirely voluntary. There was never any manhunt of any kind, nor has he been actually charged with a crime. The arrest warrant has been issued by the Swedish authorities in order to question him about the accusations that have been made. There’s no judgment that he’s guilty or that there should be a prosecution at all. They’re simply seeking to interrogate him.And one of the most—the strangest and most interesting aspects of all of this is that it’s extremely unusual for Interpol, the international police agency used in Europe and other places, to be used in this manner. I mean, he was put on the, quote, "most wanted" list, even though, as I just said, he’s not charged with any crime. They’re simply seeking to interrogate him. And for months now, his attorneys have offered to the Swedish police and to prosecutors to make him available for questioning, whether it be by telephone or by Skype or by appearing in some other technologically suitable means, and yet they’ve been extremely insistent, very oddly so, that that isn’t good enough, that he actually make himself physically available in the jurisdiction of Sweden in order to be detained and interrogated.
And, of course, the real concern is—and it’s the concern that Assange and his lawyers have—is that what this really is is just a ploy to get him into custody in a country, which is Sweden, that is very subservient to the United States, that is willing to extradite him to the United States or turn him over with the slightest request. And any person who has followed the United States, quote-unquote, "justice system" over the last decade knows that there’s good reason to fear that, that anybody who’s accused of national security crimes, especially if they’re not an American citizen, is treated in violation of virtually every Western norm of justice, without almost any due process.
So I think the responsible thing to do for any person is to wait and see with regard to the allegations themselves that these women have made, whether there’s evidence to support it. We should all wait and see one way or the other, and hopefully the case will play itself out. But there’s lots of reasons, in terms of how it’s been treated by Swedish authorities, to find it very questionable indeed whether what’s really going on is a politically motivated effort to get him out of WikiLeaks, stop what he’s doing in terms of exposing and bringing transparency to governments around the world, and ultimately hand him over to the United States."

[onmyknees]

Ben....give up the crusade dude. You sound like a one trick pony. Ya know the only reason why I regret his arrest today? Guys like you will make a fucking martyr out of him. I wish dudes like you put as much time and effort into elevating real heros like Salvatore Giunta . Google him and learn about a real life hero. After doing so....tell me which one you'd like to be when you grow up.

[lisaparadise]

Ben....give up the crusade dude. You sound like a one trick pony. Ya know the only reason why I regret his arrest today? Guys like you will make a fucking martyr out of him. I wish dudes like you put as much time and effort into elevating real heros like Salvatore Giunta . Google him and learn about a real life hero. After doing so....tell me which one you'd like to be when you grow up. ben and his mates are so fucked in the head its not funny kinda makes ya wonder about there up bringing or lack there of it. it seems to me that if one cant tell a good guy from a bad guy then theres zero hope for them period.

[dgs925]

Ben....give up the crusade dude. You sound like a one trick pony. Ya know the only reason why I regret his arrest today? Guys like you will make a fucking martyr out of him. I wish dudes like you put as much time and effort into elevating real heros like Salvatore Giunta . Google him and learn about a real life hero. After doing so....tell me which one you'd like to be when you grow up.

Who the fuck are you? The guy who posts in bold? Oh no, someone on the internet disagrees with you, you better tell him off. Ben will continue to copy and paste news stories from around the internet and there's nothing you can do to stop him.

Googled that guy you mentioned, not as interesting as the Assange story, but that's just my opinion. I've never found war stories or movies to be interesting.

[dgs925]

ben and his mates are so fucked in the head its not funny kinda makes ya wonder about there up bringing or lack there of it. it seems to me that if one cant tell a good guy from a bad guy then theres zero hope for them period.


I'm of the opinion that if you can't tell where an apostrophe or a comma go, then there's no hope for you, period.

[lisaparadise]

[QUOTE=dgs925;840764]I'm of the opinion that if you can't tell where an apostrophe or a comma go, then there's no hope for you, period.[/QUOte yayayaya ya got me lol id say tushay but you would make fun of my spelling lol

[Coroner]

We´ll see how independent the British courts are. WikiLeaks will move on and no one can stop what they revealed now. The alleged rape is an obvious set-up. They did not arrest him for leaking the files (how could they, propagating freedom of speech simultaneously) but for "rape". It was clever from Assange to turn himself in because they won´t be able to do much against him. The government is moaning because they´re afraid of those who actually keep themselves informed. They´re afraid of the population but as long as there are dummies like Lisa, they can sleep peacefully.

[GroobySteven]

It's good to see that the arrest of Assange has taken away all the new stories that Wikileaks were going to publish.
Even the BBC isn't publishing new stories/leaks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11944645

[lisaparadise]

We´ll see how independent the British courts are. WikiLeaks will move on and no one can stop what they revealed now. The alleged rape is an obvious set-up. They did not arrest him for leaking the files (how could they, propagating freedom of speech simultaneously) but for "rape". It was clever from Assange to turn himself in because they won´t be able to do much against him. The government is moaning because they´re afraid of those who actually keep themselves informed. They´re afraid of the population but as long as there are dummies like Lisa, they can sleep peacefully.what do you do for a living?how much money have you made in your life?probably 10 per cent of what ive made and you call me dummy?your a pathetic piece of shit who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground,i ran one chevy dealership top gun in 2 others made well over 2 million dollars in my lifetime hired and fired dozens of people so im far from a dummy asshole.

[Ben]

Ben....give up the crusade dude. You sound like a one trick pony. Ya know the only reason why I regret his arrest today? Guys like you will make a fucking martyr out of him. I wish dudes like you put as much time and effort into elevating real heros like Salvatore Giunta . Google him and learn about a real life hero. After doing so....tell me which one you'd like to be when you grow up.

Sure. Salvatore Giunta is a hero. He's a soldier. Being a soldier is a noble profession. But I agree with Bill Maher: We treat them like shit.
Glenn Greenwald is a hero of mine. He, rightly, explicated that we've been inculcated or taught to think that politicians are above the law.

[Jericho]

It's good to see that the arrest of Assange has taken away all the new stories that Wikileaks were going to publish.
Even the BBC isn't publishing new stories/leaks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11944645

January 11th 2011.
The day that changed the world

(i can't fukkin wait!)

[Coroner]

what do you do for a living?how much money have you made in your life?probably 10 per cent of what ive made and you call me dummy?your a pathetic piece of shit who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground,i ran one chevy dealership top gun in 2 others made well over 2 million dollars in my lifetime hired and fired dozens of people so im far from a dummy asshole.

How did you manage to hire and fire people? That requires proper reading and spelling of their names. I was putting it mildly by calling you a dummy because you deserve a worse treatment after so many bitter, hateful and ill-informed comments and calling for murder of Assange. Whatever you disagree with, keep it civilized with your arguments, otherweise stfu and go play with a dildo.

[lisaparadise]

How did you manage to hire and fire people? That requires proper reading and spelling of their names. I was putting it mildly by calling you a dummy because you deserve a worse treatment after so many bitter, hateful and ill-informed comments and calling for murder of Assange. Whatever you disagree with, keep it civilized with your arguments, otherweise stfu and go play with a dildo.what makes you think i can type and play with my dildo at the same time?he deserves to die anybody that puts lives in danger government officials and innocent people alike hes gonna get charged with treason this i have no doubt and when there done with him hes gonna wish he was dead.

[dgs925]

he deserves to die anybody that puts lives in danger government officials and innocent people alike

Yet George Bush is still alive


hes gonna get charged with treason this i have no doubt and when there done with him hes gonna wish he was dead.

As has been mentioned in this thread, he's not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.

[Jericho]

As has been mentioned in this thread, he's not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.

STFU....Don't let the facts get in the way of anything...That's unpatriotic! :hide-1: :lol: :whistle:

[lisaparadise]

Yet George Bush is still alive



As has been mentioned in this thread, he's not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.yes he can where does it say he cant? and george bush? i think you mean dick cheaney right?

[onmyknees]

Yet George Bush is still alive



As has been mentioned in this thread, he's not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.

Oh Contrare my fact challanged friend....read on. Oh and this opinion is penned not by Dick Chenny, or Sarah Palin, or Jim Demint or Fox News or some other right winger, but none other than liberal Californina Dem, And Chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committe, Diane Fienstein.

Those credentials in and of themselves don't mean she's right, but they should cause you libs some concern that your hero may be tarnished.



When WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange released his latest document trove—more than 250,000 secret State Department cables—he intentionally harmed the U.S. government. The release of these documents damages our national interests and puts innocent lives at risk. He should be vigorously prosecuted for espionage.
The law Mr. Assange continues to violate is the Espionage Act of 1917. That law makes it a felony for an unauthorized person to possess or transmit "information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation."
The Espionage Act also makes it a felony to fail to return such materials to the U.S. government. Importantly, the courts have held that "information relating to the national defense" applies to both classified and unclassified material. Each violation is punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
That WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is breaking the law is clear.








No doubt aware of this law, and despite firm warnings, Mr. Assange went ahead and released the cables on Nov. 28.
In a letter sent to Mr. Assange and his lawyer on Nov. 27, State Department Legal Adviser Harold Hongju Koh warned in strong terms that the documents had been obtained "in violation of U.S. law and without regard for the grave consequences of this action."
Mr. Koh's letter said that publication of the documents in Mr. Assange's possession would, at minimum:
• "Place at risk the lives of countless innocent individuals—from journalists to human rights activists and bloggers to soldiers to individuals providing information to further peace and security;
• "Place at risk on-going military operations, including operations to stop terrorists, traffickers in human beings and illicit arms, violent criminal enterprises and other actors that threaten global security; and,
• "Place at risk on-going cooperation between countries—partners, allies and common stakeholders—to confront common challenges from terrorism to pandemic diseases to nuclear proliferation that threaten global stability."


More


U.K. Police Seek Assange Interview (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003471384733138.html)


None of this stopped Mr. Assange. That he is breaking the law and must be stopped from doing more harm is clear. I also believe a prosecution would be successful.
In an October analysis of earlier WikiLeaks disclosures, the Congressional Research Service reported that "it seems that there is ample statutory authority for prosecuting individuals who elicit or disseminate the types of documents at issue, as long as the intent element can be satisfied and potential damage to national security can be demonstrated."
Both elements exist in this case. The "damage to national security" is beyond question. As for intent, Mr. Assange's own words paint a damning picture.
In June, the New Yorker reported that Mr. Assange has asserted that a "social movement" set on revealing secrets could "bring down many administrations that rely on concealing reality—including the U.S. administration." The same piece revealed Mr. Assange's stunning disregard for the grave harm his actions could bring to innocent people, which he dismisses as "collateral damage."
Mr. Assange claims to be a journalist and would no doubt rely on the First Amendment to defend his actions. But he is no journalist: He is an agitator intent on damaging our government, whose policies he happens to disagree with, regardless of who gets hurt.
As for the First Amendment, the Supreme Court has held that its protections of free speech and freedom of the press are not a green light to abandon the protection of our vital national interests. Just as the First Amendment is not a license to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, it is also not a license to jeopardize national security.
This latest WikiLeaks release demonstrates Mr. Assange's willingness to disseminate plans, comments, discussions and other communications that compromise our country. And let there be no doubt about the depth of the harm. Consider the sobering assessment, delivered in an email to employees of U.S. intelligence agencies late last month, by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper: "The actions taken by WikiLeaks are not only deplorable, irresponsible, and reprehensible—they could have major impacts on our national security. The disclosure of classified documents puts at risk our troops, law enforcement, diplomats, and especially the American people."
Mrs. Feinstein, a Democrat, is a U.S. senator from California and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

[william.howl]

Assange cannot be charged with treason by the U.S. Suggesting that he can is so preposterous that it hardly deserve a response. On the other hand, the U.S. government would have to be really desperate to charge Assange with violating the Espionage Act of 1917. That would be almost like France (or any other country) charging some U.S. government official (say, the director of the CIA) with espionage (spying on France). To make it even funnier, the french could then demand that the U.S. extradite said official to France to be tried. This would be so funny!!! I cannot wait for the U.S. to try it!!

[hippifried]

Treason & espionage aren't the same thing. By definition, treason is disloyalty or breach of allegience to one's own country. I just assume that anyone who doesn't understand that, probably doesnt know what they're talking about in the first place.

Assange won't be charged by or extradited to the US. He didn't leak the documents. He just published them. American journalists & their publishers pull this all the time. The State Department was given a chance to make a case for redaction of anything that they might consider dangerously sensative, & they shined it on. Probably because there wasn't anything in all that mess that was dangerously sensative. There wasn't anything secret. Just confidential. There's a big difference. There's really no espionage because he didn't do the spying, there's no evidence that he paid for or even solicited it, & he wasn't in the employ of any adversary of the US. He just made what he had public. That makes him a journalist by definition. Sloppy & amateurish, but a journalist all the same. You can talk all the laws you want, but the First Amendment trumps them all. It doesn't say the American press. As soon as we insist on taking jurisdiction over him, he falls under all of our protections, regardless of his nationality. If they go after Assange, they'll have to go after Woodward & everybody else. Ain't gonna happen.

It's up to the government to keep their confidentials confidential. Most of this is just email. Their computers aren't even secure. They're just going to have to be more careful.

[jefff]

he deserves to die anybody that puts lives in danger government officials and innocent people alike hes gonna get charged with treason this i have no doubt and when there done with him hes gonna wish he was dead. who has he put at risk? the pentagon has admitted previously that reports wikileaks leaked, didn't put national security as risk. everytime wikileaks releases something people go crazy about putting people at risk and then some times passes and everyone forgets about it, as no one ends up dead.

your own supreme court ruled "“Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government”"

and wikileaks are only the publishers, not the "rats" as you love to say, who initially got hold of the documents. why is your anger not directed towards them?


what do you do for a living?how much money have you made in your life?probably 10 per cent of what ive made and you call me dummy?your a pathetic piece of shit who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground,i ran one chevy dealership top gun in 2 others made well over 2 million dollars in my lifetime hired and fired dozens of people so im far from a dummy assholeno you are very very close to being a dummy, and an asshole. firstly, you could actually look up the word treason and find out it doesn't apply to assange at all.

also, anyone can be anything on the internet. $2 million dollars? is that all you've made? ha. i make at least that before breakfast everyday.

[GroobySteven]

and will Assange be Time's Person of the Year?
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_2029036_2029037,00.html

[dderek123]

I shit gold coins which makes me a genius obviously. True story.

[kieron]

good on the hacktivists for bringing down mastercard and visa! why can one not donate to wikileaks when visa still allows one to donate to the KKK?????

Visa/MC are fucking Morons.

I'm cancelling my VISA debit card tomorrow after work (will ask for scissors from the cashier and cut it up in front of them) and telling everybody in the bank about it.

Following pasted from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/julian-assange-denied-bail?showallcomments=true#comment-fold



Perhaps swamping VISA and Mastercard with complaints as to why they've stopped processing payments for wikileaks and the legal defence fund for Julian?


Especially since they can't have a moral argument -


4.14pm: Charles Arthur, the Guardian's technology editor, points out that while MasterCard and Visa have cut WikiLeaks off you can still use those cards to donate to overtly racist organisations such as the Knights Party, which is supported by the Ku Klux Klan. The Ku Klux Klan website directs users to a site called Christian Concepts. It takes Visa and MasterCard donations for users willing to state that they are "white and not of racially mixed descent. I am not married to a non-white. I do not date non-whites nor do I have non-white dependents. I believe in the ideals of western Christian civilisation and profess my belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God."


Email VISA/Mastercard here:


Peter Ayliffe is the CEO of Visa Europe: ayliffep@visa.com



enquiries.europe@visa.com


And Mastercard: consumer_inquiries@mastercard.com


If they want a war...

[phobun]

I'm cancelling my VISA debit card tomorrow after work (will ask for scissors from the cashier and cut it up in front of them) and telling everybody in the bank about it.


I'm sure that will be momentarily amusing to someone.

[dgs925]

blah blah blah

So how am I wrong when I say that he can't be charged with treason, eh?

[hippifried]

I think all you exceptionally rich guys should cut me off a piece.

Or at least pay for my whores.

[lisaparadise]

Treason & espionage aren't the same thing. By definition, treason is disloyalty or breach of allegience to one's own country. I just assume that anyone who doesn't understand that, probably doesnt know what they're talking about in the first place.

Assange won't be charged by or extradited to the US. He didn't leak the documents. He just published them. American journalists & their publishers pull this all the time. The State Department was given a chance to make a case for redaction of anything that they might consider dangerously sensative, & they shined it on. Probably because there wasn't anything in all that mess that was dangerously sensative. There wasn't anything secret. Just confidential. There's a big difference. There's really no espionage because he didn't do the spying, there's no evidence that he paid for or even solicited it, & he wasn't in the employ of any adversary of the US. He just made what he had public. That makes him a journalist by definition. Sloppy & amateurish, but a journalist all the same. You can talk all the laws you want, but the First Amendment trumps them all. It doesn't say the American press. As soon as we insist on taking jurisdiction over him, he falls under all of our protections, regardless of his nationality. If they go after Assange, they'll have to go after Woodward & everybody else. Ain't gonna happen.

It's up to the government to keep their confidentials confidential. Most of this is just email. Their computers aren't even secure. They're just going to have to be more careful.what makes you so sure that all he did was publish them?theres not enough info right now to determine that like how did he recieve the info?was it a thumb drive did he have to meet somebody to pick it up if infact that were the case then yes he will be charged with espionage period.

[lisaparadise]

who has he put at risk? the pentagon has admitted previously that reports wikileaks leaked, didn't put national security as risk. everytime wikileaks releases something people go crazy about putting people at risk and then some times passes and everyone forgets about it, as no one ends up dead.

your own supreme court ruled "“Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government”"

and wikileaks are only the publishers, not the "rats" as you love to say, who initially got hold of the documents. why is your anger not directed towards them?

no you are very very close to being a dummy, and an asshole. firstly, you could actually look up the word treason and find out it doesn't apply to assange at all.

also, anyone can be anything on the internet. $2 million dollars? is that all you've made? ha. i make at least that before breakfast everyday.i meant the espionage act but that being said i seriously doubt youve made half the money i did so get real.

[lisaparadise]

and will Assange be Time's Person of the Year?
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_2029036_2029037,00.htmlwouldnt that be somethin lol my vote goes to ladygaga

[hippifried]

what makes you so sure that all he did was publish them?theres not enough info right now to determine that like how did he recieve the info?was it a thumb drive did he have to meet somebody to pick it up if infact that were the case then yes he will be charged with espionage period.
Huh? What you talking about? They have the leaker. They were on different sides of the planet. Nothing physically changed hands. There isn't anything about this case that isn't all over the internet.This is as transparent as it gets.

[lisaparadise]

Huh? What you talking about? They have the leaker. They were on different sides of the planet. Nothing physically changed hands. There isn't anything about this case that isn't all over the internet.This is as transparent as it gets.we will see wont we

[sunairco]

Palin and Gingrich both chimed in on the subject and blamed Obama for Wikileak's revealations last week. Obama's fault is a familliar scapegoat for the Republicans. However, it just got better. The religious right just stepped into the ring and guess what? They don't blame Obama, the Gays did it. It's all part of the Homosexual Agenda. Geeze, these conservative Christians must own ever copy published. Anyways, the American Family Association' Family Researc Council that's part of the Mainstream Evangelical movement now blames DADT and Manning's sexual orientation as the cause of the leaks. Assange is just a "sex criminal" and not the one that commited Treason (as if they even understand the term). I wonder if Assange has any comfort knowing that the religious right doesn't hold him responsible for breaching the security of the country.

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500974

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/afa-blames-gay-soldier-wikileaks/

[lisaparadise]

Palin and Gingrich both chimed in on the subject and blamed Obama for Wikileak's revealations last week. Obama's fault is a familliar scapegoat for the Republicans. However, it just got better. The religious right just stepped into the ring and guess what? They don't blame Obama, the Gays did it. It's all part of the Homosexual Agenda. Geeze, these conservative Christians must own ever copy published. Anyways, the American Family Association' Family Researc Council that's part of the Mainstream Evangelical movement now blames DADT and Manning's sexual orientation as the cause of the leaks. Assange is just a "sex criminal" and not the one that commited Treason (as if they even understand the term). I wonder if Assange has any comfort knowing that the religious right doesn't hold him responsible for breaching the security of the country.

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500974

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/afa-blames-gay-soldier-wikileaks/lol thats some crazy shit i dont like palan but i must confess ive watched her show a few times lol i only hope she runs for the presidency that will make obama a hands down favorite to finish his second term lol.

[Ben]

Julian Assange's lawyer/attorney Jennifer Robinson: "... I have to make clear that we haven’t seen any of the evidence in this matter to date. The prosecutor has failed in her obligations under the European Convention to provide us with any evidence or the allegations in English. The first document we have received in English, which is her obligation under that convention, with respect to Mr. Assange, was Monday, when we received the arrest warrant, and there was a very short notation of the offenses and the basic facts underlying those offenses. So, as to any earlier correspondence between the complainants and Julian and their motivation for going to the police, we only know what we’ve been able to read in the press, which is a highly unsatisfactory position to be in."

Australian journalist John Pilger: "... if you look at the case in Sweden, you know, as I’ve said, the chief prosecutor in Sweden threw out this case, in effect, declared it ridiculous."

[Ben]

YouTube - Riz Khan - The WikiLeaks War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK3hq3aPl8k)

[Ben]

The, well, bizarreness of the case: Julian Assange hasn't been charged with anything.
And as Glenn Greenwald points out: "WikiLeaks has never been charged with a crime, let alone indicted for one or convicted of one."

[lisaparadise]

The, well, bizarreness of the case: Julian Assange hasn't been charged with anything.
And as Glenn Greenwald points out: "WikiLeaks has never been charged with a crime, let alone indicted for one or convicted of one."when the united states goverment has a presser saying were investigating him for any wrong doing ya think maybe there still investigating? what are ya thinking? rome was built overnight duh

[GroobySteven]

when the united states goverment has a presser saying were investigating him for any wrong doing ya think maybe there still investigating? what are ya thinking? rome was built overnight duh


Again, just spouting ill-informed rubbish. When people present you with facts, you refute them with just crap.

[onmyknees]

The, well, bizarreness of the case: Julian Assange hasn't been charged with anything.
And as Glenn Greenwald points out: "WikiLeaks has never been charged with a crime, let alone indicted for one or convicted of one."

Ben...I'm just about convinced in this particular case, you're just not going to let the facts get in the way of your undying adoration for Assange...
while you may be technically correct, Glen Greewald is being disingenuous. Do you really think Sweden would go through all the trouble of international extradition just to question him for a few hours??

In the US system it would be similar to a domestic violence case where the husband was a "person of interest" but not yet formally charged. Please...spread your horizons and try as hard as you can to stay off the Huff Post and read what others are saying !



So this from The Christian Science Monitor



"But lawyer Gemma Lindfield, representing the Swedish state, told a London court yesterday that politics and Assange's activism have nothing to do with the case. In her telling, it's a simple case of credible allegations of rape being made against Assange by two women, and that he should be brought to Sweden to stand trial.
The circumstances of the case – both women told Swedish police they had at least one consensual sexual encounter with Assange – has fueled plenty of online rumor and disinformation. A mention from the Swedish police and press reports that Assange failed to use a condom in one instance, and that in another his condom broke, have led to many false claims that having unprotected sex is illegal in Sweden, and that the country has a "broken condom law."
The reality is more prosaic.
As Ms. Lindfield tells it, the two women had withdrawn their consent to have sex with Assange either during or immediately before the act. As a result, he is charged with four violations of Sweden's criminal code on sex crimes. The first woman, "Miss A," whom Assange knew from Swedish activist circles, alleges that he coerced her to have sex. He's also charged with refusing to wear a condom, despite being asked to by "Miss A."
In the case of "Miss W," as she was described in court, he's also alleged to have "sexually exploited" the fact that she was asleep to have sex with her on Aug. 17. Article 3 of Sweden's criminal code on sex crimes indicates that she could not be reasonably expected to have given consent in that state. "A person who induces another person to engage in a sexual act by gross abuse of his or her dependent state shall be sentenced for sexual exploitation to imprisonment for at most two years," Article 3 says. "The same shall apply to a person who engages in a sexual act with another person by improperly taking advantage of the fact that the latter is helpless or in some other state of incapacitation."


And this from the AP.........A person who has sex with an unconscious, drunk or sleeping person in Sweden can be convicted of rape and sentenced to two to six years in prison.
Assange's lawyers have claimed the accusations stem from disputes "over consensual but unprotected sex" and say the women made the claims only after finding out that Assange had slept with both.
Prosecutors in Sweden have not brought any formal charges against Assange. WikiLeaks lawyer Mark Stephens said there are doubts as to whether Sweden has the legal right to extradite him simply for questioning.
Experts say European arrest warrants like the one issued by Sweden can be tough to beat. Even if the warrant were defeated on a technicality, Sweden could simply issue a new one.

But why am I wasting my time...you'll believe what you wanna believe. What ultimately happens will be interesting, but this is what happens when a disgruntled gay PFC contacts an America hating sexual deviant with a political ajenda. LOL

[Ben]

Interesting:

YouTube - U.S. Violating Assange's Civil Rights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZKx0PUllNc)

[scroller]

I sent a donation. I saw GOP Congressman Peter King on tv today comparing Wikileaks to Daniel Ellsburg's release of the Pentagon Papers. Ok, I'll buy that.

You know who else agrees with that comparison? Daniel Ellsburg himself.



Ellsberg strongly rejects the mantra "Pentagon Papers good; WikiLeaks material bad." "That's just a cover for people who don't want to admit that they oppose any and all exposure of even the most misguided, secretive foreign policy. The truth is that EVERY attack now made on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange was made against me and the release of the Pentagon Papers at the time."http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/opinionshop/detail?entry_id=78596#ixzz17aiuau00


So for those hoping to assassinate Assange, looks like they'll also have to call in a hit on that Nixon-era terrorist, Daniel Ellsberg of the Pentagon Papers.

[african1]

Interesting:

YouTube - U.S. Violating Assange's Civil Rights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZKx0PUllNc)


WOW...this is tyranny. This is an absolutely absolute tyrannous conduct by governments towards the governed.

Great find Ben. Keep'em coming.