post silicone pumping video's here!

[natina]

I know of a few


and some before and after photo's






YouTube - travesti barto aplicando siliconi , en casa. parti 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y61t0e-lQA)





YouTube - ABRIL 15, 2008 P2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMH0_QUfFM)



POPEYE ARMS
YouTube - Furlan maior bicepes da América latina Highest Bicep. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewzM_7A6giA&feature=fvw)



YouTube - Bombado e fodido... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxW0U0zPXNI)





MORE VIDEO
YouTube - SILICONA LIQUIDA INYECTADA EN GLUTEOS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PytPkrfy9HM&translated=1)



YouTube - RETIRO DE ACEITE DE AVION SILICONA LIQUIDA BIOPOLIMERO O FALSO METACRILL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0U-ef2Acmc&translated=1)


YouTube - ALFREDO FIGUEROA - PSEUDO MEDICO INYECTANDO SILICONA EN LOS GLUTEOS DE UNA PACIENTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A5Mrc3rxEk&translated=1)


YouTube - MINI LIPO O Mini Extraccion Lipidica Ambulatoria (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6D-z2ytuv8&feature=related)


http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2011570efdf87970c-pi


http://vildhasse.se/img/lisa-rinna-lip-reduction-surgeon.html



http://videosift.com/video/Man-spends-6-years-injecting-silicone-into-his-PENIS?loadcomm=1



YouTube - In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)

[natina]

for example look at the fat grafting here for breast

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)

MICRO FAT INJECTIONS
with current medicine, once fat is processed it stays
this is current medicine
its discussed in his FAQ's
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm)

Brazilian Butt
Dr Matlock USING FAT
YouTube - Brazilian Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ&feature=related)

YouTube - To Build a Better Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM)

you can have fat put in your cheeks, butt and hips est.
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm)

[El Nino]

Fucking disgusting and health risky stuff here

[natina]

you can't handle the truth

[irongoddess]

the guy injecting silicon on top of his muscles is very dangerous,i`ve never seen that before on a bodybuilder and why doing if he would have been patient in time he could have improved his physique with bodybuilding
he will get very serious health problem and it`s not a nice look!Tranining with heavy weights,the silicon will start moving around quickly and also it won`t last very long,omg!

[Silcc69]

you can't handle the truth


lmao!!!!!!!!!!!

[natina]

popeye arms

http://boingboing.net/2007/05/14/body_builders_inject.html


http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg
Body builders inject "Popeye" oil for giant biceps


Some body builders are injecting themselves with a posing oil called Synthol, which acts like a silicone injection and causes their arms to puff up like Popeye's:

http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg Synthol, which is a mixture of triglyceride oils and benzyl alcohol, was originally intended as a form of “posing oil” for bodybuilders. When injected into a muscle, however, the body is slow to break it down, so giving an inflated appearance... “Also, because it gives a fast swelling, you will get cramp from a squashing of the nerve. Then you can get crushing of the actual blood vessels and blood flow cut-off.” Some authorities in the US have said bodybuilders also risk giving themselves a pulmonary embolism, which can be fatal, by injecting synthol directly into a major blood vessel.

<A href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1782095.ece">Link (via We Make Money Not Art (http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/))
Update: Mark sez, "The bodybuilder in you picture is Gregg Valentino (http://www.greggvalentino.net/). He denies taking Synthol (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460345) in much the same way Lance Armstrong points out he has never tested positive. Steroid abuse by American kids is on the increase, just as they are doing less sport. Are they emulating celebrities? Stallone was recently busted for having illegal Human Growth Hormone, while Anna-Nicole Smith also took HGH. Gene doping, meanwhile, is already with us. (http://www.whosportwhat.com/)"

[BellaBellucci]

LMFAO!!! That's all I have to say. This shit's hysterical. Why do people do that to their bodies?! Wow!

~BB~

[natina]

the quest for beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


behold the illusions on HA


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=19978
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=19978
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=19978
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=19978

[runround04]

Cant sure Cancer, but we can do this? FAIL

[themaster]

Since I was in High School I have had interested in having silicone injected into my Penis.

[BellaBellucci]

Since I was in High School I have had interested in having silicone injected into my Penis.

You may as well pump it into your brain. Who knows? Maybe it'll make that bigger too. :roll: :lol:

~BB~

[Bobzz]

You may as well pump it into your brain. Who knows? Maybe it'll make that bigger too. :roll: :lol:

~BB~

She shoots... and she scores.... nothing but net! Ahahahahahaahaha:):):):Bowdown:

[natina]

silicone is great for toys

[natina]

pump pump pump it up

[natina]

YouTube - ABRIL 15, 2008 P2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMH0_QUfFM)

[natina]

No answer yet?

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh wow I always wondered how they injected silicone

[natina]

:yayo::whistle::hide-1::wiggle:






WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

YouTube - Black Market Plastic Surgery - Tyra (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79kaKSDc8HA)




YouTube - Black Market Plastic Surgery - Tyra (Part 3) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbFdpqWiU9Q)

[Richctdude]

yuck!!!!!!!!!!!

[natina]

I am callin shenanigans



Oh wow I always wondered how they injected silicone

[MrsKellyPierce]

Natina I have never been "pumped" There is not a drop of silicone in me. Besides my silicone gel implants. I am against silicone pumping, because I saw the purple color it can leave on the skin, and it's something you have to upkeep the rest of your life.

A lot of the girls I know personally have had it done. I was even considering it at one time with my friend TS Foxxy and make up artist Nancy, but I backed out. It's like putting cement in your body. Foxxy's however looks great, but it was done by a certified doctor in Mexico.

[natina]

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/butt-booster-action-plan?page=3

[AdaraLove]

I have also done silicone and totally regret it, its been 12 years for me since my last pumping and it has become hard and lumpy, luckily I haven't done as much as some of the girls. Please do yourself a favor and don't do it.. it looks good for a couple of years and the side effects and risks are too great. Nowadays with some many advances in plastic surgery you have many other options.

[natina]

I WOULD NEVER EVER DO SILICONE INJECTIONS.

look at the fat grafting/MICROFAT INJECTIONS here for breast


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)


MICRO FAT INJECTIONS
with current medicine, once fat is processed it stays
this is current medicine
its discussed in his FAQ's
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm)


Brazilian Butt
Dr Matlock USING FAT
YouTube - Brazilian Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ&feature=related)


YouTube - To Build a Better Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM)


you can have fat put in your cheeks, butt and hips est.
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm)

[natina]

fat injections/microfat injections

fat injections/microfat injections


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm



http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_black/buttocks17192B.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks17363A.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks28156.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks28156.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks21241a.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks21241.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_black/buttocks17192A.jpg



http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_black/buttocks20006a.jpg




http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_black/buttocks19297.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm

[natina]

when you turn 40 years old, you begin to lose muscle mass at a rate of 1% per year. As you get older, the muscles in your butt begin to be replaced by fat cells, so the fat takes over and your butt sags. By doing Plie squats, you can help to maintain and build butt muscle.




http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1


you lose muscle mass at a rate of 1% per year. As you get older, the muscles in your butt begin to be replaced by fat cells, so the fat takes over and your butt sags.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/easy-home-butt-boosters-pt-1

[natina]

Dr Oz did a segment called Easy At Home Butt Boosters. Have you ever looked in the mirror and asked yourself, what is happening to my butt? Why is my butt heading every direction but North? Doctor Oz revealed the science behind the butt droop! There are three things that causes your butt to droop: loss of muscles mass, weight gain and dry loose skin. Dr Oz gave suggestions to address all of these saggy butt problems.


Dr Oz: Plie Squats Exercise for Saggy Butts

when you turn 40 years old, you begin to lose muscle mass at a rate of 1% per year. As you get older, the muscles in your butt begin to be replaced by fat cells, so the fat takes over and your butt sags. By doing Plie squats, you can help to maintain and build butt muscle.

Dr Oz said that when you turn 40 years old, you begin to lose muscle mass at a rate of 1% per year. As you get older, the muscles in your butt begin to be replaced by fat cells, so the fat takes over and your butt sags. By doing Plie squats, you can help to maintain and build butt muscle. Stand up with your legs at a shoulder-width apart. Tense up your butt and pull it in. Put your hands out in front of you and squat down until your butt is even with your knees. Do this 3-5 times a week, and Dr Oz also suggested adding protein to your diet like a hard boiled egg. If you want some more exercise tips, definitely enter our sister site’s free giveaway for a copy of
Susie Q’s Workout Video (http://www.opinionqueen.com/free-giveaways/susie-q-arms-of-a-first-lady-workout-dvd-review-giveaway/)!


http://www.drozfans.com/dr-ozs-advice/dr-oz-butt-boosters-fanny-panties-fanny-facial-plie-squats/


http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/butt-booster-action-plan?page=3

[drock]

Natina I have never been "pumped" There is not a drop of silicone in me. Besides my silicone gel implants. I am against silicone pumping, because I saw the purple color it can leave on the skin, and it's something you have to upkeep the rest of your life.

A lot of the girls I know personally have had it done. I was even considering it at one time with my friend TS Foxxy and make up artist Nancy, but I backed out. It's like putting cement in your body. Foxxy's however looks great, but it was done by a certified doctor in Mexico.

So Kelly, what you're saying is that you're a natural Whootie??

[natina]

all TS/TG have natural feminine bodies and facial features without using hormones,fat or silicone

:wiggle::yayo::confused:

[natina]

breasts fat transfer/breast fat injection
+ face/cheeks/chin/hips etc..,

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHJY9ShGR_s)

YouTube - Fat Graft of Breast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjwcIHlqBIs)

YouTube - Fat Transfer Breast Augmentation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPHl2CpeGA)

BUTT FAT TRANSFER
YouTube - Wildwood Surgical Group - Fat Transfer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZUw_3uxwuI)

FACIAL FAT TRANSFER
YouTube - Fat Transfer-Face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBLioZAX3qI)

[joeym75ld]

Looks like they can actually do some really good work with the fat injections to the ass, as long as they don't go overboard. Much better than the lumpy, distorted silicone pumped asses on some TS.

My question is why the hell do some TS pump silicone into their cocks? It looks disgusting and appears to make the dick completely unuseable.

[iamdrgonzo]

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[natina]

they put the fat in a centrifuge and then clean it with saline to remove

the blood. this makes the fat thats injected in the body acquires its own
blood supply. now you have so much less absorption




Looks like they can actually do some really good work with the fat injections to the ass, as long as they don't go overboard. Much better than the lumpy, distorted silicone pumped asses on some TS.

My question is why the hell do some TS pump silicone into their cocks? It looks disgusting and appears to make the dick completely unuseable.

[jordyd19]

I thought popeye had big forarms... the wanker

[natina]

silicone makes big forearms or those bodybuilding chemicals for show preprep

[natina]

YouTube - CBS Breast Fat Transfer - Offices of Dr. Bill Johnson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6naP4z6Kz5Q)


YouTube - Serdev suture Brazilian Buttock lift Butt lift No incisions No downtime serdev@gmail.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUmHHMgvbe4)

YouTube - Brazilian Butt lift immediate result by Serdev suture in Sao Paolo 2003 serdev@gmail.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gt1OWQOwf0)



YouTube - Butt Augmentation using fat grafting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL57FTKyQfA)

[natina]

behold the illusions on HA

the quest for beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


behold the illusions on HA

[natina]

Woman injects cooking oil into face




http://emergency-pants.net/media/uploads/2010/06/earl440x316.jpg



Woman injects cooking oil into face

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=35203

Han Hegyon (aka Hang Mioku), injects cooking oil into face

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=34926

[horst1]

[quote=natina;818893]
popeye arms

http://boingboing.net/2007/05/14/body_builders_inject.html


http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg
body builders inject "popeye" oil for giant biceps


some body builders are injecting themselves with a posing oil called synthol, which acts like a silicone injection and causes their arms to puff up like popeye's:
http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg synthol, which is a mixture of triglyceride oils and benzyl alcohol, was originally intended as a form of “posing oil” for bodybuilders. When injected into a muscle, however, the body is slow to break it down, so giving an inflated appearance... “also, because it gives a fast swelling, you will get cramp from a squashing of the nerve. Then you can get crushing of the actual blood vessels and blood flow cut-off.” some authorities in the us have said bodybuilders also risk giving themselves a pulmonary embolism, which can be fatal, by injecting synthol directly into a major blood vessel.

[natina]

http://www.crazymuscle.com/Synthol-61?currency=USD

http://www.lyonsproteinsource.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZoeEsikClean&gdftrk=gdfV21614_a_7c52_a_7c103_a_7cZoeEsikClean

Amazon.com: Synthol Esik Clean (Pump N Pose): Everything Else@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21P37kH5bJL.@@AMEPARAM@@21P37kH5bJL (http://www.amazon.com/Synthol-Esik-Clean-Pump-Pose/dp/B0012U24J2)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21P37kH5bJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Synthol - Synthol Esik Clean Pump & Pose is a state of the art, synthetically-engineered topical posing oil. The dramatic and almost instant gains of both muscle mass and definition are a result of the internal swelling of the muscle fibers. The permanent gains are a result of the production of new vascular tissue while the muscle is expanded. The new vascular tissue increases the blood supply to the muscle which provides extra nutrients to allow the muscle to grow larger, resulting in a permanent gain of both muscle mass and definition.



How do I take it?
1 mL per bicep 3 times weekly. This product is a topical oil used to enhance the appearance of muscle and reduce post workout soreness. We do not endorse injecting Synthol Pump-N-Pose into muscle sites.



YouTube - Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suvlx3ehJ4)

[natina]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/25/article-0-0C3BC989000005DC-4_233x256.jpg


Buttock-booster: Anivia Cruz-Dilworth, 28, of New Brunswick was indicted after six patients were hospitalised after receiving injections to boost their bottoms


A model has been charged with injecting gel into women’s buttocks without a practitioner’s licence.
Six patients ended up in hospital in March after visiting Anvivia Cruz-Dilworth, 28, who has appeared on the TV programme The View .
They had all sought bigger bottoms in line with the celebrity vogue led by Kim Kardashian and rapper Ice-T’s wife Coco, who are both rumoured to have had bottom-enhancing jabs.
Authorities say the women were injected with the same material as decorators used to caulk bathrooms (pipe-sealant).
The women showed up in the emergency rooms of Essex County area hospitals complaining of problem.
An investigation revealed Cruz-Dilwort had injected women with what she described as hydro-gel.
Several of the women sustained serious bacterial infections requiring them to undergo surgeries.
The women who underwent these procedures were put in touch with Cruz-Dilworth by word-of-mouth at area beauty salons, said Assistant Prosecutor Peter Sepulveda.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/25/article-1333042-0C3CD3CA000005DC-437_224x554.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/25/article-1333042-0C3CD3BD000005DC-935_224x554.jpg


Bum rap: Gossip-mongers claim both Kim Kardashian (left) and Ice-T's wife Coco have had bottom-enhancing injections


Cruz-Dilworth would visit the women’s homes to perform the procedure. In one case, she did the procedure at her home, a gated community in New Brunswick.
'Her actions caused a lot of harm. Many of these women had to undergo surgery following these illegal procedures,' Sepulveda said.
One woman had to undergo five separate hospitalisations and multiple surgeries as a result of the injuries sustained from the unlawfully performed buttocks injections.'
In her biography, Cruz-Dilworth describes herself as a 5ft 10ins full-figured model. She says she has been represented by Wilhelmina and Clicks modeling agencies in New York City and in Essence Magazine and Oprah’s O Magazine.
She is scheduled to appear in Superior Court on December 9.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333042/Model-charged-women-injected-boosting-gel-hospitalised.html#ixzz16cAqnZVd

[natina]

Anivia Cruz-Dilworth Indicted For Giving Booty Injections Filled With “Bathtub Caulking!!” [Video]


http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/

http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/


Model Anivia Cruz-Dilworth Charged For Performing Illegal Buttocks Injections With Bathtub Caulking (http://www.atlnightspots.com/2010/model-anivia-cruz-dilworth-charged-for-performing-illegal-buttocks-injections-with-bathtub-caulking)

http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/cruzdilworthANIVIA112310_opt.jpg
Anivia Cruz-Dilworth (pictured) was indicted Tuesday for practicing medicine without a license. According to court documents, Cruz-Dilworth told the women that she was a trained professional and that she would inject them with a substance the 28-year-old called “hydro-gel,” which is supposed to enhance the buttock.
Instead, the New Brunswick resident injected her clients with a silicone sealant, the very same material used to caulk bathtubs. The injection sites were also sealed with Krazy Glue. Cruz-Dilworth, who has never been medically trained or educated to perform these injections, subjected the women to serious infections, ranging from cellulitis (a serious bacterial infection of the skin that spreads) to necrosis (tissue death). Several of the woman had to undergo multiple surgeries.
According to investigators,
Cruz-Dilworth would charge her clients a discounted rate of $ 650 to $ 1,200 for a procedure that would normally range from $ 10,000 to $ 15,000. The plus-sized model would usually travel to a client’s home, but sometimes they would come to her apartment, located in a gated community, to receive the services. The model who claims to have graced the pages of publications such as Essence and Oprah’s O Magazine got her clientele through beauty salon referrals. At this point, Essex County Prosecutor Peter Sepulveda thinks that there may, in fact, be more victims who are suffering from Cruz-Dilworth’s dangerous and illegal practice but have not come forward:
“She took these young ladies’ lives in to her hands. Her actions caused a lot of harm. Many of these women had to undergo surgery following these illegal procedures,” said Sepulveda to Newsroom Jersey.“One woman had to undergo five separate hospitalizations and multiple surgeries as a result of the injuries sustained from the unlawfully performed buttocks injections.” Out of the six women who were hospitalized after undergoing the butt-enhancing procedure, only three are listed in Cruz-Dilworth’s indictment.
Cruz-Dilworth has been charged with three counts of unlicensed practice of medicine. Each count carries up to five years in prison. She is scheduled to appear in court on Dec. 9th.

http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/
http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/

http://bossip.com/312111/anivia-cruz-dilworth-indicted-for-giving-booty-injections-filled-with-bathtub-caulking-video69691/

[themaster]

http://www.crazymuscle.com/Synthol-61?currency=USD

http://www.lyonsproteinsource.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZoeEsikClean&gdftrk=gdfV21614_a_7c52_a_7c103_a_7cZoeEsikClean

Amazon.com: Synthol Esik Clean (Pump N Pose): Everything Else (http://www.amazon.com/Synthol-Esik-Clean-Pump-Pose/dp/B0012U24J2)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21P37kH5bJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Synthol - Synthol Esik Clean Pump & Pose is a state of the art, synthetically-engineered topical posing oil. The dramatic and almost instant gains of both muscle mass and definition are a result of the internal swelling of the muscle fibers. The permanent gains are a result of the production of new vascular tissue while the muscle is expanded. The new vascular tissue increases the blood supply to the muscle which provides extra nutrients to allow the muscle to grow larger, resulting in a permanent gain of both muscle mass and definition.



How do I take it?
1 mL per bicep 3 times weekly. This product is a topical oil used to enhance the appearance of muscle and reduce post workout soreness. We do not endorse injecting Synthol Pump-N-Pose into muscle sites.



YouTube - Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suvlx3ehJ4)

I did some research on this but can't find any info on it. half the time it was either to buy it or inject it into your penis questions.

[GrimFusion]

LMFAO!!! That's all I have to say. This shit's hysterical. Why do people do that to their bodies?! Wow!

~BB~

Ditto. Most of this crap stems from an obsession with perfection, I'm all about "to each their own", but whether by psychosis, bad taste, or bad judgment, these people should be committed to save them from themselves.

[drock]

how much do fat injections/micro fat injections cost?

You look fine, don't go over board with all this ish...

[natina]

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm)



Fees and Financing



Click here for financing information (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#finance)
Buttocks Augmentation by MicroFat Grafting
Buttocks augmentation is an out-patient procedure that is performed in our accredited office surgical facility. The surgical fee for this procedure starting $17,000. This fee depends on the amount of fat which must be obtained, the number of donor areas which must be suctioned to obtain enough fat, and the difficulty of removing the fat (soft, or firm and fibrous).






Fee includes:


Surgical Fee

Anesthesia

Operating room costs

Recovery Room Costs

Dr. Roberts' care for 3 months after surgery

Post-surgical garments

Complimentary therapeutic massages

Not included in Fees:


Lab costs and medications

Caregiver for 2 nights

Travel and Lodging (http://faceandfigure.com/site/travel.htm)

This cost includes the liposuction of enough areas to provide the amount of fat needed for buttocks Augmentation. Other areas can be liposuctioned at an additional cost.







You will need to stay....


in Spartanburg, South Carolina, for 14 days after your surgery. During this time Dr. Roberts will have you come in to our office for regular post operative checks.






http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/buttocks_financing.htm


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks20154a.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks21241.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks28047.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks28156.jpg



http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks17363A.jpg


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_asian/buttocks20270.jpg




how much do fat injections/micro fat injections cost?




Buttocks Augmentation by Implants



Buttocks augmentation using implants is an out-patient procedure that is performed in our office surgical facility. The surgical fee for this procedure starts at $12,000.







Fee includes:


Surgical Fee

Anesthesia

Operating room costs

Recovery Room Costs

Dr. Roberts' care for 3 months after surgery

Not included in Fees:


Lab costs and medications

Travel and Lodging (http://faceandfigure.com/site/travel.htm)

You will need to stay....






in Spartanburg, South Carolina, for 14 days after your surgery. During this time Dr. Roberts will have you come in to our office for regular post operative checks.


Financing Buttocks Augmentation






Fees and Financing







We are committed to providing the best possible care and to keeping costs as low as possible. We will discuss estimated fees with you prior to surgery. Cosmetic surgery is elective and therefore not covered by insurance. We accept most major credit cards, check and cash.


Chase Health Advance – You may apply by phone by calling 1-888-519-6111 or online at www.chasehealthadvance.com (http://www.chasehealthadvance.com) – You will need to give them our provider merchant ID number 10730. We offer flexible payment plans.



CareCredit – You may apply by phone by calling 1-800-365-8295 or online at www.carecredit.com (http://www.carecredit.com/) – The only option our office offers with this company is the 48 month fixed 16.90% interest rate. There is a $2,000 minimum with this company.



Surgery Loans.com – You may apply by phone by calling 1-888-405-8140 or online at www.surgeryloans.com (http://www.surgeryloans.com/) – the finance percentage runs from 9.99%-27.9%. Your first payment is due 45-60 days after surgery.

[natina]

fat injection.

many of the women I had seen that had nbice figure that work out of this

club in TJ called ADELITA'S got work done from the doc's on revolution

street in TJ.



is there any doctor that specializes in this procedure out of the country that does it cheaper?

[natina]

http://bioplastyblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/picture-9-300x206.png


http://www.bioplastia.med.br/in/layout/polime3.jpg
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/bioplasty.htm



Fillers are treatments that seek to redefine facial and corporal contours using liquid implants made of biocompatible materials, via microcannulas, implanted on deep anatomical planes through a minimally invasive procedure. The most commonly used type of liquid implant is the PMMA (polymethylmethacrylate), because it is permanent, stable at the area in which it was applied to, inert, and it does not have side-effects.
Bioplasty techniques have been widely used and often substitute surgical procedures that would produce the same effects, having the advantage of being a minimally invasive procedure. Bioplasty can substitute surgery in areas such as the lips, chin, nose, hands, buttocks, thighs, calves, and penile circumference. Breast augmentation via bioplasty is currently being studied. Brazil is currently at the forefront of Bioplasty, being considered a reference center for these techniques.
As previously mentioned, bioplasty is a minimally invasive procedure that is done with the use of local anesthetics, without the need for sedation. Procedures are quick and safe and there are no unexpected results. The patient is awake during bioplasty and thus able to oversee the proceedings, participating actively in obtaining the desired results. There is no post-op. Results are permanent and final.







http://www.bioplastia.med.br/in/layout/polime3.jpg



Illustration 3. Injection of Artecoll (composed of microesferas of PMMA and collagen) in the deep derme for correction of wrinkles.
AREAS THAT CAN BENEFIT FROM BIOPLASTY0

Cheek Bioplasty (malar) – facial bioplasty can correct imperfections and project and plump the cheeks, a sign of youth that fades with aging.

Buttock Bioplasty -Brazilian butt lift (http://www.clinicaleger.com.br/brazilianbuttlift.htm) buttock bioplasty can enhance and increase the glutes in a fast, simple and safe way, and with fabulous results! The procedure is done at the doctor’s office, with local anesthetics. Patients are able to participate actively in the procedure, voicing his/hers opinions as per the desired shape and volume.

Jaw Line Bioplasty - jaw line bioplasty can create or improve the dividing line between the face and neck. Applying fillers to the area also reduces tissue flaccidity, having results similar to those of a face-lift, especially when done in association with cheek (malar) bioplasty.

Nose bioplasty - with nose bioplasty, we are able to lift, thin and project the tip of the nose, reduce the nasal base, and improve nasal dorsal appearance. This is a safe procedure performed with local anesthesia. Patients are required to wear bandaging for a period of 7 to 15 days, depending on the procedure.

Calf Bioplasty - bioplasty for calf augmentation and corporal biomodulation is recommended for those with noticeably small calf muscles, disproportional to the rest of the body, who showed no improvement after undergoing physical treatments and workouts.

Chin Bioplasty - With chin (mentum) bioplasty we are able to augment, protrude, and correct asymmetries and imperfections without surgery, through a minimally invasive procedure.

Pectoral Bioplasty – patients presenting hypotrophy of the pectoral muscles, Poland syndrome (underdevelopment or absence of the chest muscle) or muscle asymmetry are candidates for this procedure. It is also recommended for patients who have disproportional chest muscles in comparison to muscles of other areas of the body, and who have not obtained improvements in the development of such muscles with physical training and exercise.

Shoulder Bioplasty - bioplasty for deltoid augmentation is performed to reestablish corporal harmony in patients with muscular asymmetry or hypotrophy, as means of correcting scars or depressions caused by the loss of adipose tissues, amongst other conditions.

Lipodystrophy (seropositive patients) – bioplasty has shown great results in seropositive patients who present, as side effects of treatments to this condition, loss of fat in certain areas of the body and especially on the face. The use of fillers on this area through bioplasty eliminates the undesired appearance of a thin face, and helps patients regain their self-esteem.

Lip Bioplasty - lip bioplasty can plump thin lips, improve its contours, better define the Cupid’s bow, and correct imperfections, leaving lips in perfect harmony to the face.

Hand Bioplasty - the hands also suffer with aging and with the loss of conjunctive tissue. The skin becomes more flaccid and stained, and the back of the hand reveals tendons and veins, giving the hand a senile aspect. Bioplasty can recuperate the lost volumes and aid in disguising veins and tendons, rejuvenating its appearance.

Bioplasty for the correction of wrinkles, scars and depressions - Bioplasty can be performed for the correction of wrinkles, hollows, scars and depressions. It has excellent results in filling the nasogenian fold, as well as those deep wrinkles on corners of the mouth (commonly known as Chinese mustache).

Penile Bioplasty – penile bioplasty can, in a safe and quick procedure, increase the perimeter of the penis. Specific devices may be used for increasing the length of the penis.
BUTTOCK BIOPLASTY – BUTT AUGMENTATION (BRAZILIAN BUTT LIFT) – HOW TO ENHANCE AND REDEFINE THE OUTLINE OF YOUR BUTTOCKS
Bioplasty for buttock augmentation can reshape, increase the volume, and lift the gluteus. The results are that of more harmonious buttocks, with the desired shape and volume, and a better and perkier appearance. Candidates for the Brazilian Butt Lift include those with flattened buttocks or small glutes that are disproportionate in regards to corporal harmony.
Trochanteric depressions (on the sides of the buttock) are other unfavorable aspects of the female glutes that can be easily filled through bioplasty, making the overall look of the bottom more round and feminine. The amount of product used will be determined by your doctor’s assessment of your case. It is reasonable to apply 80 to 150ml of product per buttock, divided equally in each quadrant. It is of the utmost importance that each patient consults a well-qualified and capable doctor, so that the patient can be properly evaluated.
HOW BUTTOCK BIOPLASTY IS PERFORMED
1. The skin is cleansed; 2. With the patient sitting down with a straight back, a support guideline is drawn; 3. Using a mold, each buttock is marked with 4 quadrants, within the markings; 4. Antisepsis of the area is performed; 5. Sterile fields are put in place. A microcannula will be introduced in each of the glutes via a single orifice, extremely small in size. It works as an injection, with minimal bleeding and without the need for bandaging. This microcannula is blunt-tipped, thus avoiding any damage to the nervous-vascular nerve bundle. Anesthesia is done with a Nacul cannula, introducing a small tube of local anesthetics in each quadrant. Klein solution may also be used. Products used are numbered as to order the proceedings. After anesthesia, the microcannula (50X09 with PMMA in 30% on point N) is introduced. The Brazilian Butt Lift has excellent results that are permanent and homogeneous. It is a safe and virtually pain free procedure, which does not require surgery or post-ops. This procedure can also greatly benefit men who are unhappy with the overall look of their buttocks, and seek to obtain a more harmonious figure.

[natina]

Buttocks Augmentation Brazil

BRAZILIAN BUTT LIFT AUGMENTATION WHITH POLYMETHYLMETACRYLATE

Bioplasty of gluteal

Bioplasty for buttock augmentation can reshape, increase the volume, and lift the buttocks. The results are that of more harmonious buttocks, with the desired shape and volume, and a better and perkier appearance. Candidates for the Brazilian Butt Lift include those with flattened buttocks or small glutes that are disproportionate in regards to corporal harmony.
Trochanteric depressions (on the sides of the buttock) are other unfavorable aspects of the female glutes that can be easily filled through the use of polymethylmethacrylate (PMMA) – liquid implant used for bioplasty. This makes the overall look of the bottom more round and feminine.


Material for the procedure for increase of the glúteos with the Bioplasty of the buttocks:

antiseptic solution;
pen for demarcation;
poker cable;
he/she holes for us to perforate the access for the microcânulas;
carpule;
anesthetic - as xilocaína 2% without vasoconstritor;
stem for anesthesia;
pistol Injetora;
support;
microcânula 50x09;
PMMA 30% (very larger amounts - about 80-150 ml. for glúteos), for this procedure it would be more appropriate the acquisition of PMMA in syringes of 3 ml.
As the Bioplasty of the butt (buttocks augmentation) is accomplished
cleaning of the skin of the buttocks;
With the seating patient and straight column we make one of the demarcations in the support line;
we numbered each glúteo inside with 4 quadrants of the demarcation with the mold;
Antisepsis of the place;
Placement of sterile fields.
Each gluteal will be introduced the microcânula by a single minimum hole without bleeding nor need of curatives, it works as an injection!!! This micro cannula (tube) possesses a tip atraumatic that doesn't allow lesion of the vasculo-nervous bunch.
The anesthesia for the accomplishment of the Bioplasty of the buttocks is accomplished with the stem of Nácul introducing a tubete of local anesthetic in each quadrant, or still a solution of Klein numbered to order the procedure.
After anesthesia we introduced the micro cannula 50X09 with PMMA to 30% in the point N in each gluteal.
The amount of liquid implant for the Bioplasty of the buttocks varies according to indication, for great amounts we accomplished the procedure in stages, a reasonable amount for first application is among 80 - 150 ml. for gluteal, divided equally for each quadrant.
The Bioplasty of the buttocks, provides an excellent definitive and homogeneous result, without operative and painless powders, the patient is awake during the whole Bioplasty of the buttocks, the increase gluteal feels for the implantation for micro cannulas atraumáticas of Polimetilmetacrilato, definitive implant that increases the volume of the buttocks (butt) in minutes. Come to accomplish the Bioplasty of the buttocks.
http://www.bioplastia.med.br/images/bioplatia_gluteo.jpg
The Bioplasty of the buttocks is a safe procedure and no surgical, where we received here in Brazil patient of several places of the world that you/they dream about a clang more led with a harmonicer format. This procedure has also been accomplished in many men that try to improve the harmony of the buttocks.
With the bioplasty we can make the buttocks augmentation whithout cuts, we can give the shape of them, augmenting and remodeling the buttocks. Many indications of application of the bioplasty in the buttocks exist, as flattened format, small glúteos, desproporcional in the corporal harmony. Depression (in the lateral of the buttocks) is aspect that is ugly in a feminine glúteo, being able to be easily filled with use of polymethylmetacrylate (implantation that we use in the bioplasty), becoming it thus a more feminine and rounded off buttocks.
Bioplasty is one technique of infiltrative liquid implantation being carried through under local anesthesia for buttocks augmentation, muscular groups, increase of legs, correction of nose, face, wrinkle and depressions. The product usually used is the PMMA (polymethylmethacrylate microspheres)a product that is accepted biologically and that has been used in medicine since 1945, being this an implantation with definitive result. The patient folloies all the procedure that is carried without any cuts and without the need of sutures, through a no traumatic special microcannula (she does not allow to injury of the beam vascular and nerve).

[natina]

ice tee's girl had major surg

BUMP IT CAUSES ITS HOT

[MYSTIQUE]

I waited many years researching the different types of procedures used for enhancement. I finally opted for silicone and I haven't been disappointed. The price of beauty is high and painful, but I have no regrets at all.

I've been documenting my progress and posting the videos on youtube.com/mystiquevolution. Feel free to check them out.

[natina]

silicone cause tumors in the long run or the short run and necrosis

necrosis is tissue death and that is happening inside of someone who pumps silicone

the long run might be 5,10,15,20 years down the road,

the short run might be 5 ,10,15,20, 30 days

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrfelixfariasperu.blogspot.com%2F20 10%2F04%2Fsustancias-prohibidas-silicona-liquida.html

[MYSTIQUE]

thats surprising, have you investigated bioplasty? what was your reasoning to opt out of doing it?

From what I researched on bioplasty, the results seemed rather minimal. The results I want for hips and booty only seem achievable through silicone. The stick figure look is just not attractive to me at all. Not to mention the high price tag to go to a surgeon. My income doesn't flow like water in large amounts. To work all these hours, save all that money an then go to a surgeon, disappointment would have been highly damaging.

[MYSTIQUE]

silicone cause tumors in the long run

the long run might be 5,10,15,20 or 30 years down the road

That's true, but there is a risk in all things in life. The foods we eat, the air we breathe, etc... I've heard of people having issues with theres but I've also see people who have had silicone for more than 30 years and they're just fine. "IF" something bad does happen in the future, I will deal with it as it comes. You only live once and right now, I'm happy.

:)

[nonnonnon]

Is it true it can slide down to the ankles or is that just black market stuff? yikes

[natina]

yes its true it can slide down to the ankles

there are pictures on this site

it causes infection and swelling with auto immune system reactions similar to lupus

called inflammatory nidus (center of infection)

necrosis is tissue death and that is happening inside of someone who pumps silicone

[natina]

stem cells for butt and breast augmentation or even better then fat because they will grow.

while some fat is reabsorbed but most stays as long as the doc uses the state of the art methods.

[natina]

Mcrofat injection about 300cc

[natina]

it will be a difficult painful last ,5,10,15, 20 years with you liver

failing and your immune system (Inflammatory and Immune Responses)

attacking what once was healthy tissue plus you will have tumors .

necrosis is tissue death and that is happening inside of someone who pumps silicone

silicone is not the only danger,the glue used to hold in the material being

pumped into your butt,hips,cheeks,breast,thighs and lips.:iagree:
did you know that the glue that many of the silicone pumpers or using is also a banned substance?:iagree:

The Doctors TV Show was focused on the topic of “Secrets Your Feet Tell About Your Health” today. So, one of the topics that The Drs TV Show spoke about was Nail Salon Dangers like Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) used in Nail Glue.
The Doctors: Methyl Methacrylate Nail Glue is Dangerous.:yayo:
it contains formaldehyde.:mad:


http://www.medicalbuff.com/tag/methyl-methacrylate-nail-glue-is-dangerous/


SOME NOTES:
Cyanoacrylate is the generic name for cyanoacrylate based fast-acting adhesives (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Adhesive) such as methyl 2-cyanoacrylate (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Methyl_cyanoacrylate), ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Ethyl_cyanoacrylate) (commonly sold under trade names like SuperGlue and Krazy Glue), and n-butyl cyanoacrylate (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Butyl_cyanoacrylate) (used in the veterinary glues Vetbond and LiquiVet and skin glues like Xoin, Indermil, LiquiBand® and Histoacryl). 2-octyl cyanoacrylate (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/2-Octyl_cyanoacrylate) is a medical grade glue encountered under various trade names (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Trade_name); e.g., derma+flex® QS™, SurgiSeal, FloraSeal, Dermabond, Surgi-Lock and Nexaband. This was developed to be non-toxic and less irritating to skin tissue. Cyanoacrylate adhesives are sometimes known as "instant glues". The abbreviation "CA" is commonly used for industrial grades



http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrfelixfariasperu.blogspot.com%2F20 10%2F04%2Fsustancias-prohibidas-silicona-liquida.html




That's true, but there is a risk in all things in life. The foods we eat, the air we breathe, etc... I've heard of people having issues with theres but I've also see people who have had silicone for more than 30 years and they're just fine. "IF" something bad does happen in the future, I will deal with it as it comes. You only live once and right now, I'm happy.

:)

[natina]

bump it causes its hot



rodrigo ferraz , synthol ? silicon ? gynecomastia ?
YouTube - rodrigo ferraz , synthol ? silicon ? gynecomastia ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kExxKSgwj4o)


Victims of synthol or false kings of bodybuilding.
YouTube - Victims of synthol or false kings of bodybuilding. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4IMb0EwvHE)

[MYSTIQUE]

Like I said, everything is life comes with some type of risk. Its up to each individual to choose their own path. I mean, its not like there have ever been complications and even death from "board certified and approved doctors and surgeons." As of now, I feel great, I look good and that's what counts. "IF" I ever have complications, I'll adjust accordingly. There are pros and cons to the surgical procedures addressed in this topic as well. Nothing "unnatural" is without a hint of danger.

[bridgetbbyxo]

so im hearing that bioplasty is just silicone just renamed, is that true?

[natina]

THE BOOTY FORMULA & Brazilian BUTT LIFT MADE FAMOUS BY DR MATLOCK

Brazilian Butt Lift
Dr Matlock USING FAT
http://news.makemeheal.com/plastic-surgeons-interviews/buttock-augmentation-dr-matlock/

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KPN0aj_Xoh0/0.jpg


http://www.makemeheal.com/news/images/dr-david-matlock.jpg





http://news.makemeheal.com/plastic-surgeons-interviews/buttock-augmentation-dr-matlock/
http://news.makemeheal.com/plastic-surgeons-interviews/buttock-augmentation-dr-matlock/
http://news.makemeheal.com/plastic-surgeons-interviews/buttock-augmentation-dr-matlock/
http://news.makemeheal.com/plastic-surgeons-interviews/buttock-augmentation-dr-matlock/



This is a procedure the world famous Dr Matlock invented. He performs liposuction on the patient then injects the fat into the patient's buttock.The Brazilian Butt Lift


YouTube - Brazilian Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ)


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPN0aj_Xoh0)

[natina]

http://video.tellytube.in/buttock+injections/




YouTube - Dr. Matlock on VH1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCdTXWK5vH4)


YouTube - Dr. Matlock on TheDoctors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVvwZ3nA4_8&feature=related)

YouTube - Dr. Matlock Promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBKcIyB9USU)

[natina]

bump it causes its hot



Synthol



Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ
YouTube - Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suvlx3ehJ4)




Synthol Man Strikes again
YouTube - Synthol Man Strikes again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVKjXuYzBjo)

[natina]

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrfelixfariasperu.blogspot.com%2F20 10%2F04%2Fsustancias-prohibidas-silicona-liquida.html



http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=01bd1e9767a26f9e0c582a739a896c91&url=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_F3rXVsY9EUw% 2FS4FKHxgZ4eI%2FAAAAAAAABqc%2FiKm9WEuPwJQ%2Fs320%2 F15_biop_ph.jpg




http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=329554394336





Spanish to English translation



Biopolymers FAQs
. By Cosmetic Surgery Magazine on Sunday, February 21, 2010 at 3:06 am.Los notorious biopolymers have become an epidemic. But health authorities in some countries (Latin America) are not doing anything to prevent it.

The application of biopolymers based on the ingenuity of some, ignorance of many and the desire to profit from others.
What are Biopolymers? As biopolymers are substances of different origins, some are derived from petroleum (Vaseline), others are of plant origin and many are of synthetic origin. Most are synthetic derivatives of silicon and may include other synthetic substances such as methacrylate. Sometimes what is percolating cooking oil, industrial oil or baby oil. Some are sold under the name of polyvinyl methacrylate or polymethylsiloxane (LSR), most are sold as made in France or Germany, but in the jars do not appear anywhere the CE mark (European Community) which is mandatory products manufactured and packaged in Europe, did not find sites in France or Germany that advertised. We must clarify that although some are actually manufactured in Europe, the continent is prohibited and pursued its use.
These products are only promoted in ad pages in buying and selling of South America, especially Mexico, Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, Dominican Republic and Venezuela. internet is easy to find doctors who advocate the application of these substances and there are those who ensures that all information warning against its use are lies to discredit different manufacturers.

Sometimes he deceives by telling patients that they will apply hyaluronic acid, but in reality are injected biopolymers.
The photograph shows some of the adverse effects of biopolymers. Source: pielhoy.com

Is it the same biopolymer liquid silicone? In many cases the biopolymers are really only liquid silicone (silicone oil), other times the silicone is a component.
Biopolymers If the risks are infiltrating a doctor? Yes, biopolymers must not infiltrate ever. Some doctors lacking the minimal ethical or a low educational level, tell their patients that biopolymers are only dangerous in the hands of non-medical personnel (beauticians or cosmetologists), but this is not true. The biopolymers are always dangerous.
What risks do not apply there if doctors and beauticians or cosmetologists apply? In addition to the risks that you can read below there is a danger of infection by not using sterile material and even death. The beauticians or cosmetologists can not in any country in the world do fillings or injections of any substance.
Why biopolymers are dangerous? Mainly for 3 reasons
The first is that it may trigger an excessive inflammatory reaction in the body, forming lumps, bumps. The agency identifies the biopolymer as a foreign object and triggers a defensive reaction.
The second is that they can migrate (move) from where they were infiltrated distance creating complications.
The third is that most of the time have no health checks which increases the risk of side effects and complications from infection.
What can be the main side effects of the application of biopolymers? The most common complications are:-Allergic - infections, fibrosis, changes in skin texture, product migration, skin lesions, deformities, granulomas
- Edema (swelling).
Why do so many people recommend them? Often these recommendations are given by manufacturers, vendors or infiltrators, ie people with a clear commercial interest. Other times they are the people who have applied, have the dramatic initial effects, but have not yet developed any side effects. Too often are recommended by people who use them and have yet to see or unwilling to see their side effects.
Can biopolymers infiltrate in small areas like the lips? No, biopolymers must not infiltrate never even in small areas.
Do biopolymers can lead to death? If, in severe cases can cause death. If during infiltration (only at this time) is introduced into a blood vessel biopolymers. The biopolymer is moved into the glass and can create an embolism. The sad case of Solange Magnano (and other corporations) can be a proof.
What should I do if I have infiltrated biopolymers? First not to alarm, second alert health authorities of your city and thirdly, seek medical advice.
Is there treatment? One of the most serious consequences of the application of biopolymers, it is very difficult to remove. There is still no enough experience in the treatment for disposal. Some surgeons and physicians are specializing in the extraction with various surgical techniques by surgical or laser. Treatment consists mainly of controlling inflammation and if possible removal.
Please be aware that very often it is possible to complete extraction
. If biopolymers are so unhealthy that many plastic surgeons and aesthetic doctors use them? Because unfortunately become a doctor or plastic surgeon is sometimes not synonymous with having a low work ethic, and because many doctors (especially in some countries ) are not properly trained.
If they are silicone biopolymers have these contraindications why silicone implants are used? Why is not the same, prostheses or silicone implants for breast augmentation or butt are now surrounded by a layer that insulates the body. And they are cohesive silicone gel, a type of silicone that texture limit and precludes the migration of silicone. The silicone implants used in surgery are safe
What are the alternatives to the use of biopolymers? Reabsorvibles use fillers such as hyaluronic acid or fat for small to and use of silicone implants to add volume to the buttocks or breasts.
"I can inject methacrylate to increase my butt?
No, the methacrylate is only authorized for filling small areas is not authorized or to be used to augment the buttocks.
"I can infiltrate other permanent fillers? According to the Journal of Cosmetic Surgery should never be used permanent fillers (not disappear over time.) The only safe are reabsorvibles as hyaluronic acid or own fat.


Beware of ads buttock augmentation without surgery!. Usually involve application of biopolymers.

Interesting articles about the dire consequences of biopolymers:
Biopolymers, crude oil price of vanity highlight of this article: "According to the Colombian Society of Plastic Surgery, in ten queries for reconstructive surgery, three are for patients who have injected liquid silicone" (...) "After this treatment, Diana instantly felt the stares of envy in his buttocks. But only a few months ago, his body began to protest the foreign substance and to show the real consequences. The itching became unbearable. This is because, according to Alfonso Riascos, plastic surgeon, the biopolymer is a liquid silicone that, when injected directly migrates to different parts of the body. irreversible effects can appear months or years "(...)" The Colombian Society of Plastic Surgery explained that 80% of cases, these fillers are applied by staff with no information or training, which increases the risk of severe infections (...) As biopolymers are not absorbed by the body, hardened and pronounce the operated regions. (...) "Apply on the cheeks, furrows, brows, lips, chin, breasts and buttocks. Over time, the substance begins to move to other areas of the body and can cause disfigurement and tumors. They can cause severe facial disfigurement, loss of gestures and changes in the injected areas "
Beware of biopolymers: winning beauty can become a nightmare in this article Dr. Del Reguero president of the Venezuelan Society of Plastic, Aesthetic, Reconstructive and Maxillofacial states: "The biopolymers are offered as a filler to rejuvenate, by simple procedure. But really, biopolymers cause granulomas, are rejected by the body, causing deformity. There are biological substances, although promoted as such. " In simpler words, the skin is broken, wounds remain open, sunken areas. The body's response may be early, a month or two months (if infection), or later, one or two years later, when no one expected. Beyond the comfort and antimicrobials, there is little that can be offered as an aid to the people (mostly women). "We can not remove all of the material, because it would produce a deformity," he warns. "This is a public health problem, affecting patients of all socioeconomic strata."
The aesthetic fillers disease article in El Mundo that alert us of the dangers of these substances. "" As the tissues age and thin, biocompatible substances not ever show up better and hence the emergence of a sort of ball (granulomas), "said Javier Benito, a plastic surgeon and director of the Institute of Benito (Barcelona ). Beyond these deformities, eventually, the immune system of some patients have rejection of the material, which is encapsulated and infected.'s doctor Benito tells the story of one of his patients: "Her thighs lumpy and hurt. In his day he was injected with silicone oil to smooth and thicken a bit this part of the body. Over time, the substance enters the intracellular space, muscle, fat and skin. Can not be removed. "According to Alicia account in the acute phase," had a severe pain just to touch, which did not allow me or get dressed. Now the swelling has subsided, although the package so I still have. "As explained Eduardo López Bran, Head of Dermatology, Hospital Clínico San Carlos (Madrid)," The medical approach focuses on inflammatory treatment. The surgical approach only works when it is localized, but in general it is very difficult to clean the area. "
You are also interested: What should I know about biopolymers? Dr Jorge Iglesias Marquez.

Fillings buttocks death trap. "A Luzmila he made a small incision in the coccyx, massaged the buttocks to mold as they entered the substance and an hour later wrapped in a girdle. The doctor who did had to pay $ 15 million in compensation, for all the pus they had to drain, and the letter had to be cut gangrenous. Sandra is critical for a lung problem. "
The SCCP explains that extend well into tissues and coagulate, biopolymers sometimes migrate to other organs. Still, some may go ilesas.Alogenis injected a new iatrogenic disease. This is the reference scientific article on the adverse efctos of biopolymers and other fillers. The first picture presented, belongs to this article and shows the effects of liquid silicone adeversos.

What me sorry I operated the tail. Testimony of the model and designer Giovanna Guzman. "I'm sorry I made this treatment. Injure a part of my body will never be the same. I just needed more work in the gym or perhaps a better advice"
Finally, one of the latest in video related biopolymers.

[natina]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpg


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031289-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031289-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031289-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031289-504083.html

Buttocks Injection at Pa. Hotel Leads to Woman's Death


http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/02/09/PhiladelphiaButtInjection_244x183.jpg
Police crime scene investigator places bags into a van at Hampton Inn in Philadelphia, Feb. 8, 2011. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)


(CBS/AP) Police say they are investigating the death of a 20-year-old woman from London who had a cosmetic injection into her buttocks at a hotel near the Philadelphia International Airport.
Detectives say the woman and three associates traveled from London and were staying at the Hampton Inn in southwest Philadelphia. Two of them reportedly came to the city in November to have their buttocks enlarged and, on Monday, one received another injection while the other had a hip augmentation.
Detective Joseph Murray said the 20-year-old woman who had the buttocks injection complained of chest pains and trouble breathing. She was later taken to Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital where she died early Tuesday.
The results of an autopsy by the Delaware County medical examiner's office haven't been released.
Police are looking for two people involved in the cosmetic procedures, which authorities believe were arranged over the Internet.
"We're not quite sure right now if that person performing that procedure is licensed or unlicensed," said Lt. John Walker of the Philadelphia police southwest detectives division.
Walker said investigators were also awaiting test results to determine the substance used in the procedures.


Tags:philadelphia hotel (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=philadelphia+hotel) ,crimesider (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=crimesider) ,buttocks injection (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=buttocks+injection) ,philadelphia (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=philadelphia) ,cosmetic injection (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=cosmetic+injection) ,buttocks injection death (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=buttocks+injection+death) ,internet (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=internet) Topics:Daily Blotter (http://www.hungangels.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?categoryId=10397)

[natina]

I missed this thread

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031793-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031793-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031793-504083.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031793-504083.html





http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/02/14/claudia-aderotimi_244x183.jpg Claudia Aderotimi (Personal Photo)


(CBS/KYW/AP) Investigators in the death of Claudia Aderotimi scoured the home of Padge Victoria Windslowe, a 41-year-old Philadelphia woman accused of injecting an illegal substance into the British woman's buttocks.
Authorities are still searching for Windslowe, a transgender hip-hop singer who also goes by "Black Madame" and who could be charged with murder.

According to court documents obtained by CBS affiliate KYW (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/02/11/police-seek-answers-in-buttocks-enhancement-death/), police executed a search warrant Thursday and seized dozens of items from Windslowe's home, including a box of syringes, packets of silica gel, and a sterile water bottle for injections.
Aderotimi, 20, a dancer and aspiring hip-hop star, traveled with friends from London to Philadelphia in order to undergo the illegal cosmetic procedure.
According to The New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/02/12/2011-02-12_black_madam_hip_hop_singer_sought_by_cops_in_bu tt_implant_case_that_left_claudia.html?r=news/national), Aderotimi and another woman went to a hotel near the Philadelphia International Airport and paid more than $1,500 to receive injections to make their rear ends curvier.
The other woman survived, but Aderotimi complained of chest pains and trouble breathing and was rushed to the hospital where she died a day after the Feb. 7 procedure.
"She started coughing and having shortness of breath," Lt. John Walker, police spokesman told The New York Daily News. "What we believe happened is that the injector nicked a vein and put the substance into the bloodstream. It goes through your vascular system and lands in the lung and since it's a gel, it will pile up like a rock."
"If that's truly what happened, it's a murder charge," he added.
Police say they will ultimately determine what, if any, crimes were committed once they obtain the results of an autopsy conducted by the Delaware County medical examiner's office and learn Aderotimi's exact cause of death.
Liquid silicone is sought on the black market by women seeking to enhance their figures, even though it is not approved for cosmetic injections. It was not known what substance was used on the women at the hotel. Besides liquid silicone, injections of substances including paraffin, petroleum jelly and hydrogel have been illegally used to enlarge women's breasts, hips and buttocks.

MORE ON CRIMESIDER
February 10, 2011 - Buttocks Injection at Pa. Hotel Leads to Woman's Death (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031289-504083.html?tag=mncol;lst;1)




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpg

[bridgetbbyxo]

YouTube - Silicone Injections: The Horrid Truth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8PP7hLnwrs)

[Silcc69]

youtube - silicone injections: The horrid truth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pp7hlnwrs)


roflmao

[TsVanessa69]

That's true, but there is a risk in all things in life. The foods we eat, the air we breathe, etc... I've heard of people having issues with theres but I've also see people who have had silicone for more than 30 years and they're just fine. "IF" something bad does happen in the future, I will deal with it as it comes. You only live once and right now, I'm happy.

:)
I totally agree sis.

[natina]

YouTube - Big Booty-PUMPIN caulk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98SmYohcVKo)



YouTube - Women Get Butt Injections w/ Caulk?! ( Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teaRigo6lA)













http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpg

[natina]

THE DOCTORS show date April 13, 2011 TITLE: DANGEROUS TRENDS
4/13/2011


DANGEROUS TRENDS VIDEO
http://www.thedoctorstv.com/main/show_page/D3093-1


Show Synopsis videos


http://www.thedoctorstv.com/main/show_synopsis/774?section=synopsis


Medical Tourism
As the costs rise for cosmetic treatments in the United States, the trend of medical tourism, or visiting another country for less-expensive procedures, is increasing. But surgeries done in less-regulated countries come with risks.


"Forty percent of plastic surgeons have had to correct botched plastic surgery done overseas," Dr. Ordon says.






Maria, 38, took a trip to Mexico for silicon injections in her face, and came back with disastrous results (http://www.hungangels.com/videolib/init/3468).






http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3468



http://www.thedoctorstv.com/files/Image/3093/D3093-53.jpg



-----THE FIX FOR THE SILICONE INJECTIONS------


http://www.thedoctorstv.com/files/Image/3093/D3093-55.jpg




Maria, 38, took a trip to Mexico for silicon injections, and came back with disastrous results. Plastic surgeon Dr. Leif Rogers performed corrective surgery on her face. Find out how Marias corrective procedure is done, and see her amazing results!



http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3469





Correcting Silicon Injections part #2




http://www.thedoctorstv.com/files/Image/3093/D3093-58.jpg


Plastic surgeon Dr. Leif Rogers performs corrective surgery on Maria's face (http://www.hungangels.com/videolib/init/3469).

Maria, 38, took a trip to Mexico for silicon injections, and came back with disastrous results. Plastic surgeon Dr. Leif Rogers performs corrective surgery on Marias face.



http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3470



OK! (3)THREE VIDEOS FROM THE SHOW
THE DOCTORS
http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3468


http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3469


http://www.thedoctorstv.com/videolib/init/3470



"There are a lot of great plastic surgeons outside of the United States," Dr. Ordon says. "But if you decide to go outside of the United States [for a procedure], you have to do your homework, just like you do here. Is the doctor, in fact, a plastic surgeon? Where is he working? Is it in an accredited facility? Is it clean? Just keep in mind that your doctor is going to be a long way away from you if there's a problem."


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpg

[natina]

for example look at the fat grafting here for breast


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)


MICRO FAT INJECTIONS
with current medicine, once fat is processed it stays
this is current medicine
its discussed in his FAQ's
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm)


Brazilian Butt
Dr Matlock USING FAT
YouTube - Brazilian Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ&feature=related)


YouTube - To Build a Better Butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM)


you can have fat put in your cheeks, butt and hips est.
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm)


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=213897&stc=1&d=1228448709

[natina]

the video you quoted is gone now



roflmao


Originally Posted by bridgetbbyxo http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=874255#post874255) youtube - silicone injections: The horrid truth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pp7hlnwrs)

[natina]

What White Girls Do To Have Black Lips…



Once upon a time, black people’s fat lips remained at the center of racist ridicule. Now, many whites are the first in line to buy fat lips. The problem is that’s not something most whites were born with. That’s why former “Melrose Place” cast member, Lisa Rinna, had no choice but to remove the 24-year-old silicone implants from her lips — placed there back in 1986.
Here’s what Rinna’s plastic surgeon had to say of the actress’ recovery:
“Lisa’s trying not to talk or even smile for long for fear of popping open her lips. Anytime you have anything permanent injected into the lips, you are playing Russian roulette with your face.”
When I was a kid, I remember hearing people like Bob Hope joke about black people and their lips. Now white chic’s are paying $1,500 for lip augmentation — and the procedure only lasts up to six-months.
Personally, I think white chics with fake lips look hilarious — take Lindsay Lohan, for example. Lilo looked better with her natural lips, but I can’t tell this fake generation that. Just recently, I saw a girl I know who had the lip procedure done and I told her I could have saved her $1,500 if she let me to punch he in her mouth. Know why? Because her fake lips made it look as if like she had just finished sparring in a boxing match mane.




http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/ (http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/)
http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/ (http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/)
http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/ (http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/)
http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/ (http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/white-girls-black-lips/)

[905queentiffany]

I know lots of girls get their asses and hips pumped, but does any have their breasts injected? Or know someone who has? I'm not going to run out and do it but i'm just interested to know their experience and how it settled.

[natina]

ts/tg/TV/CD get there cheeks pumped,thighs,breast,chin,jaw,brow,lips and hips


my friend went to TJ got pumped came back and was found dead from pumping

[Brandi Boots]

too much for me to handle....i am stopping at page 1 and using the quick reply for this.... my eyes hurt

[natina]

microfat injections work wonders
i.e. the Brazilian butt lift by doctor David Matlock
Dr David Matlock speaks about the Brazilian Butt Surgery - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyUL33sUd0c)
THE FAT STAYS NOW WITH THE CURRENT METHODS

even fat with stems cells are being used for the breast and cheek bones now
http://www.onlinesurgery.com/facility/ca/los-angeles/david-l-matlock-md-mba-facog

http://www.onlinesurgery.com/plasticsurgery/butt-augmentation.asp
Silicone injections could not be worse as a choice for buttock
augmentation. Use of silicone for buttock augmentation is NOT approved
by the FDA. In most cases, the type of silicone used is not even
medical grade. I have personally seen and operated on patients with
horrible complications from this treatment. Many of my colleagues have
the same experience.
For the best results with buttock augmentation I recommend fat
transfer. This is commonly known as the Brazillian Butt Lift. It
involves liposuction of your body (usually tummy, hips and love
handles) and transferring that fat into the buttocks. The results are
a very natural looking and feeling augmentation.
I hope this info helps!
Best regards,
Adam J Rubinstein, MD, FACS
Read more: http://www.onlinesurgery.com/qa/thinking-about-silicone-injections-for-my-behind-suggestions#ixzz1Z67buokE
2.)
you might want a "SHELF BUTT"
betterbuttocks.com

[natina]

Whatever Happened to Silicone Injections? (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/2011/04/01/whatever-happened-to-silicone-injections/)

Posted on April 1, 2011 (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/2011/04/01/whatever-happened-to-silicone-injections/) by Terry Zimmerman, MD, FACS (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/author/zimmermanmd/)
http://thezimmermancentersacramento.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/liquid-facelift.jpg?w=210&h=158 (http://thezimmermancentersacramento.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/liquid-facelift.jpg)Even though silicone injections are illegal in the US, many women still get them—knowingly or unknowingly—in their pursuit of beauty. I’m willing to bet that if you asked five of your friends if silicone injections can be used to augment anything—to plump up the lips, round out the buttocks, fill in wrinkles on the face or the backs of the hands—at least three of them would say “yes.” Although liquid silicone is often used off-label or on the black market by unqualified providers, it’s not FDA approved for any those purposes.
Back in the 1950′s, silicone injections were used as breast augmentation material. However, they were banned when it was discovered that the injections caused deformities, lumps, bumps and infections. Today, silicone injections are approved by the FDA only as micro-droplet injections for scar tissue. Another challenge of silicone (just in case the risk of deformity and infection isn’t enough) is that silicone doesn’t adapt well with aging. As the facial area, for example, ages and begins to sag, the silicone remains firm and begins to stick out–resulting in a deformed appearance. Although the dermal fillers I use in my Folsom/Sacramento plastic surgery (http://www.folsomskincare.com/) practice, such as Juvederm, Restylane and Sculptra Aesthetic (http://www.folsomskincare.com/fillers.html), are fairly long-lasting, none of them will ever last long enough to create an odd appearance as a user ages.
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/cohenpr/BLOG%20PHOTOS/PRISCILLAPresleyBeforeAfterSilicone.jpgFor those individuals who have been injected with silicone, there’s only one way to reverse the damage, and that’s with surgical removal of the silicone implants or injected material. I’m sure you know who Priscilla Presley is. She had huge amounts of silicone plumped into various areas of her face, resulting in near-distortion. Unfortunately, there’s little that can be done for her, as removing it now would create an even worse result. Lisa Rinna had silicone injected into her lips back in the 80′s. She was able to have her silicone removed, unlike Priscilla Presley.
Although the effect of silicone on one’s appearance can be disastrous, injected silicone possesses a lethal risk, as it can move through the blood steam and cause a clot in the lungs, which can potentially be fatal.
Don’t risk your health and safety for beauty. Know what’s being injected into your body. Better yet, stick with a board-certified plastic surgeon for your skin care and facial treatments.
To your health & beauty,
Dr. Terry Zimmerman (http://www.folsomskincare.com/doctor.html)


Posted in Uncategorized (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/category/uncategorized/), silicone injections (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/category/silicone-injections/), wrinkle fillers (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/category/wrinkle-fillers/), buttock augmentation (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/category/buttock-augmentation/), breast augmentation (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/category/breast-augmentation/)|Tagged botox sacramento (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/botox-sacramento/), dermal fillers folsom (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/dermal-fillers-folsom/), Dr. Terry Zimmerman (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/dr-terry-zimmerman/), Folsom juvederm (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/folsom-juvederm/), folsom plastic surgeon (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/folsom-plastic-surgeon/), plastic surgeon sacramento (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/plastic-surgeon-sacramento/), sacramento botox (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/sacramento-botox/), sacramtento botox (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/tag/sacramtento-botox/)|Leave a comment (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/2011/04/01/whatever-happened-to-silicone-injections/#respond)

http://zimmermancenterblog.com/

[natina]

British girl dies
in US buttock op

A BRITISH girl has died after having bottom implants fitted - in a US motel room.
Claudia Aderotimi collapsed with chest pains after being injected with silicone at the Hampton Inn in Philadelphia.
Hip hop fan Claudia, 20, of London, died in hospital on Monday. Police are hunting "specialists" who carried out the buttock-enhancing op - it is believed the meeting was agreed over the internet.
Court papers state Ms Aderotimi had flown to the US with three other friends from the UK on Saturday.


DO you know Claudia Aderotimi? Call us on 020 7782 4100 or emailexclusive@the-sun.co.uk (%20exclusive@the-sun.co.uk)


She suffered medical complications after the procedure - although the results of a post-mortem examination by the Delaware County medical examiner's office have not been released.
Detective Tanya Little of the Philadelphia Police Department confirmed: "There is an investigation into the death of a British tourist who died after receiving a procedure at a local hotel."
One of the women had had buttock enlargement in Philadelphia last November and took three pals to receive the same implant in hotel rooms this week, court documents add.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01247/Buttock-op_380_1247945a.jpgOp ... docs carry out similar silicone injections at hospital
Eyevine


Lieutenant John Walker, of the Philadelphia police said: "We're not quite sure right now if that person performing that procedure is licensed or unlicensed."

"We're still working that information right now."
Sources said two of the girls were injected on Monday afternoon at the inn, near Philadelphia International Airport.
The procedure costs between £620 and £1,865 per session. Sources say another woman paid £1,120 for hip enhancement.
Shortly after the injections, in room 425 at the hotel, Ms Aderotimi complained of chest pains and was rushed to the local hospital.
The female "surgeon" who carried out the implants left when Claudia began feeling ill, sources told a local news station.
The initial cause of death is said to be silicone injected into her vascular system, ultimately stopping her heart, according to the Delaware County medical examiner.
The other three women are expected to remain in Philadelphia for several days while authorities investigate.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3401008/British-girl-20-dies-in-US-buttock-op-tragedy.html

[natina]

Silicone Injections Cost (https://www.realself.com/silicone-injections/cost) ≈ $3,500 average cost


Are Silicone Butt Injections Illegal?


i had several butt injections (https://www.realself.com/Butt-augmentation/reviews) to enhance, lift and reshape my butt 10 years ago. I do believe it was silicone that was used from the descriptions here. i now have hard tumor like balls that have migrated to the sides of my hips. is this dangerous and can they be removed? also were these injections of silicone illegal? Thanks.

Asked 18 months ago by xxxxxxxx in NJ
Tags:buttocks (https://www.realself.com/silicone-injections/answers/buttocks)granuloma (https://www.realself.com/silicone-injections/answers/granuloma)



Butt Fill Injections - Silicone, Hydrogel, Valvoline

The law defines what local doctors would do under similar circumstances as the Standard of Professional Practice. For malpractice to occur, a doctor needs to do something that is totally different from what his colleagues would do ( IE deviation from this local standard) AND for that breach to have resulted in an injury.
Since butt injection (https://www.realself.com/Butt-augmentation/reviews) of NON-FDA approved substances is NOT practiced by most doctors (in most communities in this country) that would constitute a deviation from the standard of care and you sound as if you have a resulting injury. So in theory you may have a malpractice case.
But it would be hard for you to collect anything. The reasons - in most of these cases the injections are done by non-licensed practitioners, who are uninsured in hotel rooms / homes and "pump partis" and it would be hard to convince a jury that you did not really know that your buttocks injections were not really a conventional treatment.
By the way, removal of silicone scars (https://www.realself.com/Scars/info) is VERY hard and would leave depressed scars. In effect you will be changing one deformity for another.
If it sounds too good to be true...


https://www.realself.com/question/silicone-butt-injections-illegal

[natina]

Butt Augmentation Cost (http://www.realself.com/butt-augmentation/cost) ≈ $4,600 average cost
Hydrogel Butt Injections

I was interested in enhancing my butt but I don't want surgery or anesthesia (http://www.realself.com/anesthesia/info). I was looking on line and found something called Hydrogel injections but its hard to find a surgeon who does this. Is this an effective way to augment the butt area, and where is it available (in the northeast)?


Tags:
buttocks (http://www.realself.com/butt-augmentation/answers/buttocks)hydrogel (http://www.realself.com/butt-augmentation/answers/hydrogel)injection (http://www.realself.com/butt-augmentation/answers/injection)
Sort 10 expert answers by: VotesDate
+3
Don't even think about it!

Material other than your own fat can be dangerous to your health. This is a terrible procedure. Enhance your front not your back. Some one needs to develope padded shorts.
http://i.realself.com/tiny/Picture%204_2.pngPicture-4-19358.png (http://www.realself.com/find/New-York/Manhattan/Plastic-Surgeon/William-Rosenblatt)William B. Rosenblatt, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/New-York/Manhattan/Plastic-Surgeon/William-Rosenblatt)
New York Plastic Surgeon
ASAPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+2
Hydrogel butt injections are extremely dangerous and illegal to inject in the US. Not FDA approved.

Many patients call our office asking for the hydrogel injections. There isn't any safe or legal ways to increase butt size without surgery. Brazilan butt lift used your own fat cells to enhance the butt. The abdomen is liposuctioned and the fat is used in the butt. If you are still considering PMMA or hydrogel injections, think twice about what you are injecting into your body. If you are against having surgery, forget about any butt procedures. ... more
http://i.realself.com/tiny/ottoCompress2-27225.JPG (http://www.realself.com/find/Illinois/Chicago/Plastic-Surgeon/Otto-Joseph-Placik)Otto Joseph Placik, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Illinois/Chicago/Plastic-Surgeon/Otto-Joseph-Placik)
Chicago Plastic Surgeon
ASAPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Hydrogel Injections

These injuections are not approved by the FDA in the US. Be very careful about getting something like this done or who you have doing it to you. There have been some cases that have caused renal failure and have lead to death due to silicone butt injections.
Doctor's Website (http://www.jaimeperezmd.com/)
http://i.realself.com/tiny/49669.png (http://www.realself.com/find/Florida/Tampa/Plastic-Surgeon/Jaime--Perez)Jaime Perez MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Florida/Tampa/Plastic-Surgeon/Jaime--Perez)
Tampa Plastic Surgeon
ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Artifical filler for butt augmentation

I do not recommend Hydrogel butt injections because autologous fat is much superior and has fewer side effects and can be a permanent solution if done correctly.
http://i.realself.com/tiny/j-burns-15352.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Texas/Dallas/Plastic-Surgeon/John-Burns)John Burns, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Texas/Dallas/Plastic-Surgeon/John-Burns)
Dallas Plastic Surgeon
ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Hydrogel not available for Buttock Enhancement in the US

Hydrogel is not avialble in the US. Even if you can find medical grade hydrogel (Aquamid) to inject into the buttock it will cost several thousands of $ to inject 300-500 cc in each buttock. The safety of hydrogel is not fully known yet.
http://i.realself.com/tiny/image002-WinCE-39271.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Maryland/Baltimore/Plastic-Surgeon/Samir-Shureih)Samir Shureih, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Maryland/Baltimore/Plastic-Surgeon/Samir-Shureih)
Baltimore Plastic Surgeon
ASAPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Run away as fast as you can! There are now many reports...

Run away as fast as you can! There are now many reports of people experiencing terrible complications, including kidney failure and death from the injection of "hydrogel" into their buttocks. The accepted and safe methods of achieving buttock augmentation are grafting your own fat into the buttocks, and using implants. Both require a minor surgical procedure and should be performed by a surgeon certified by The American Board of Plastic Surgery. Be careful with your health and... more
Doctor's Website (http://www.drarmandosoto.com/)
http://i.realself.com/tiny/JHP_0032-18873.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Florida/Orlando/Plastic-Surgeon/Armando-Soto)Armando Soto, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Florida/Orlando/Plastic-Surgeon/Armando-Soto)
Orlando Plastic Surgeon
ASAPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
I would be very careful about this stuff, and who you go...

I would be very careful about this stuff, and who you go to. This is not an approved procedure, and could be harmful or fatal. I saw one report of a woman who had silicone injected into her buttocks and she died due to silicone embolism. Be sure to only go to a plastic surgeon certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery. sek
http://i.realself.com/tiny/drkasden-41897.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Texas/Southlake/Plastic-Surgeon/Scott-Kasden)Scott E. Kasden, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Texas/Southlake/Plastic-Surgeon/Scott-Kasden)
Dallas Plastic Surgeon
ASAPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Look for alternatives to hydrogel for butt augmentation

There are really no cost effective and safe alternatives to fat grafting. The fillers we use in the face would in theory work, but would be extremely expensive and temporary. Other fillers(silicone, Hydrogel-Aquamid, PMMA, etc) have been associated with MANY complications after injection, even months to years later, resulting in pain and severe deformity. If you search these products on this site or click on their name in my post here, you can read about the experiences of some other... more
Doctor's Website (http://discoverthebeauty.com/)
http://i.realself.com/tiny/DrMarkmann_new1Crop-38241.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Maryland/Baltimore/Plastic-Surgeon/Daniel-Markmann)Daniel P. Markmann, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Maryland/Baltimore/Plastic-Surgeon/Daniel-Markmann)
Baltimore Plastic Surgeon





+1
Hydrogel Butt Augmentations - Stay Away

Regarding: "Hydrogel Butt Injections I was interested in enhancing my butt but I don't want surgery or anesthesia. I was looking on line and found something called Hydrogel injections but its hard to find a surgeon who does this. Is this an effective way to augment the butt area, and where is it available (in the northeast)?" Hydrogel a mixture of water and various concentrations of polyacrylamide (one known as Aquamid)which is NOT approved by the FDA for any medical... more
http://i.realself.com/tiny/DrPAldea-29382.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Tennessee/Memphis/Plastic-Surgeon/Peter-Aldea)Peter A. Aldea, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Tennessee/Memphis/Plastic-Surgeon/Peter-Aldea)
Memphis Plastic Surgeon
ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)





+1
Avoid hydrogel injections into the butt

While it may sound appealing to beta gel injected into your butt and avoid surgery... However you need to realize. That this is not done by reputable surgeons because of the horrific complications that come from this procedure. In our clinic we offer fat injections or butt implants (if the patient does not have sufficient fat) Sincerely, Martin Jugenburg, MD
http://i.realself.com/tiny/204457-194956.jpg (http://www.realself.com/find/Ontario/Toronto/Plastic-Surgeon/martin-jugenburg-md)Martin Jugenburg, MD (http://www.realself.com/find/Ontario/Toronto/Plastic-Surgeon/martin-jugenburg-md)
Toronto Plastic Surgeon
ASPS (http://www.realself.com/partners)








http://www.realself.com/question/butt-augmentation-hydrogel

[natina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=moDyZqHB8GQ#!

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1011885#post1011885



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpghttp://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=422933&stc=1&d=1317080980


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=422934&stc=1&d=1317081070




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=moDyZqHB8GQ

[natina]

3 Grim Reasons You Don't Want Silicone Butt Injections

Princess 19 (http://www.realself.com/user/141854) on 26 Apr 2011 at 1:00pm
http://i.realself.com/scale/315473-134462.jpg (http://www.realself.com/files/315473-134462.jpg)J. Lo and Beyonce have the envy of women everywhere with their stellar rears. But for many, getting the perfect asset can be detrimental -- in the worst case, lethal. Three reasons why you should think twice before seeking a bigger butt on the black market:
Columbian Catastrophe

Elena Caro of Las Vegas felt confident in the "doctor" she had chosen as her close friend had gotten a successful butt augmentation (http://www.realself.com/Butt-augmentation/reviews) from him not long ago. Caro, 42, had Botox (http://www.realself.com/Botox/reviews) injections done at the clinic to try them out. Against her daughter's wishes, she then scheduled for a butt enhancing procedure soon after.
After her butt injections, Caro was at first well enough to call her daughter to assure of her safety. Hours later, she was dumped on the side of the road by the "doctor" Ruben Daio Matallana-Galvas, 55, and his wife Carmen Olfidia Torres-Sanchez, 47. Her daughter went searching for her at the clinic which was locked up and cleaned out. Caro was found by strangers and taken to a hospital where she eventually died.
The unlicensed "surgeon" and his wife were arrested as they attempted to board a flight back to Colombia and charged with murder. He told police (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375702/Colombian-plastic-surgeons-arrested-murder-woman-dies-Las-Vegas-clinic.html) he injected Caro with 200 cc of a gel-type substance, in six separate injection sites. Matallana-Galvas supposedly is only licensed to practice homeopathic medicine in Columbia. No Nevada state licenses were issued for any kind of medicinal practice for him or his wife.
http://www.realself.com/files/ckfinder/jlo-booty-Kalumba2009-flickr.png
"I wish I would have never have brought her, " says Janet Villalovos, her 17-year-old daughter. "I met the doctor and his wife, and they told me, 'Everything will be fine, you have nothing to worry about.' "
The cause of death is still unknown.
Transatlantic Tragedy

Aspiring UK actress/singer, Claudia Aderotimi, 20, died (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20031793-504083.html) after a botched butt injection procedure done at an airport hotel in Philadelphia. The illegal silicone enhancement procedure reportedly cost her $3,000.
Apparently Aderotimi arranged for the injections via the internet and this was her second time visiting the individuals who performed the procedures. Her friend who also received injections survived. Aderotimi complained of chest pains and had trouble breathing after getting injected. She was rushed to the hospital where she died a day after the procedure.
Police arrested a 41-year-old transgender known as the "Black Madame" in connection with the crime. Padge Victoria Windslowe allegedly had incriminating paraphernalia in her possession including syringes and silicone gel.
Lt. John Walker, police spokesman told The New York Daily News, "What we believe happened is that the injector nicked a vein and put the substance into the bloodstream. It goes through your vascular system and lands in the lung and since it's a gel, it will pile up like a rock."
"If that's truly what happened, it's a murder charge," he added.
Miami Mishap

http://www.realself.com/files/ckfinder/silicon-graphic-lead.jpg (http://www.realself.com/review/Butt-augmentation-a-nice-buttock-went-bad-from-silicone-injections)RealSelf user 1chloe shared (http://www.realself.com/review/Butt-augmentation-a-nice-buttock-went-bad-from-silicone-injections) her bad butt injection experience with readers.
"I had silicone injected (http://www.realself.com/Silicone-injections/reviews) into my butt 2006...I almost died from it..it took me over a one year to heal after having a surgery to drain the silicone out of my buttocks," she said.
"I regret it sooo much..the person was unlicensed..my butt [got] bigger..got lots of compliments and men chasing me..but it almost cost me my life," she adds. "I had to get a blood transfusion. My hospital bill was $100,000 from being in the hospital for about 3 months."
She now contemplates how to fix what the botched procedure has done.
"I want to have fat transfer[ed] into my buttocks and later have a skin graft to cover up my scars.. But I'm scared..thinking I might [have] died."
- - - - - -
http://www.realself.com/files/ckfinder/Butt-aug-gallery-lead.jpg (http://www.realself.com/butt-augmentation/before-and-after-photos)Still thinking about doing this? Miami Plastic Surgeon Dr. B. Pat Pazmino (http://www.realself.com/find/Florida/Miami/Plastic-Surgeon/B.-Pat-Pazmino) warns you to think twice.
"No ethical medical doctor will perform this procedure....Although it is common in other countries, Silicone should NEVER be injected into your buttocks. Your body can cause a very severe reaction to the silicone and create excess scar tissue that may deform the appearance of your butt."
He adds "Here in Florida, we have unfortunately had a number of patients who have died after they received silicone injections to the butt and this silicone then traveled to their lungs and kidney...It is best to discuss with your plastic surgeon the great options that exist for butt contouring enhancements such as a Brazilian Butt lift. (http://www.realself.com/Brazilian-butt-lift/reviews)"
Photo Credit: Joanna8555 and Kalumba2009 on flickr.com Creative Commons


http://www.realself.com/blog/3-reasons-silicone-butt-injections

[I]You may also like:

Are Silicone Butt Injections Illegal? (https://www.realself.com/question/silicone-butt-injections-illegal)
Hydrogel Butt Injections (http://www.realself.com/question/butt-augmentation-hydrogel)
Should You be Concerned After Injections? (http://www.realself.com/question/butt-injections-silicone)
Painful Silicone Butt Injections (http://www.realself.com/question/pain-silicone-injections-buttocks)




http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1011885#post1011885



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xHd5ueWBcms/S9gx67OXrLI/AAAAAAAAAH0/fYaS2hMNvYY/s1600/hg6.jpghttp://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=422933&stc=1&d=1317080980


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=422934&stc=1&d=1317081070




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=moDyZqHB8GQ

[dominic.perron]

You were awesome in Silence of the Lambs, Natina. Big ups.

[natina]

Whatever Happened to Silicone Injections? (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/2011/04/01/whatever-happened-to-silicone-injections/)

Posted on April 1, 2011 (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/2011/04/01/whatever-happened-to-silicone-injections/) by Terry Zimmerman, MD, FACS (http://zimmermancenterblog.com/author/zimmermanmd/)
http://thezimmermancentersacramento.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/liquid-facelift.jpg?w=210&h=158 (http://thezimmermancentersacramento.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/liquid-facelift.jpg)Even though silicone injections are illegal in the US, many women still get them—knowingly or unknowingly—in their pursuit of beauty. I’m willing to bet that if you asked five of your friends if silicone injections can be used to augment anything—to plump up the lips, round out the buttocks, fill in wrinkles on the face or the backs of the hands—at least three of them would say “yes.” Although liquid silicone is often used off-label or on the black market by unqualified providers, it’s not FDA approved for any those purposes.
Back in the 1950′s, silicone injections were used as breast augmentation material. However, they were banned when it was discovered that the injections caused deformities, lumps, bumps and infections. Today, silicone injections are approved by the FDA only as micro-droplet injections for scar tissue. Another challenge of silicone (just in case the risk of deformity and infection isn’t enough) is that silicone doesn’t adapt well with aging. As the facial area, for example, ages and begins to sag, the silicone remains firm and begins to stick out–resulting in a deformed appearance. Although the dermal fillers I use in my Folsom/Sacramento plastic surgery (http://www.folsomskincare.com/) practice, such as Juvederm, Restylane and Sculptra Aesthetic (http://www.folsomskincare.com/fillers.html), are fairly long-lasting, none of them will ever last long enough to create an odd appearance as a user ages.
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/cohenpr/BLOG%20PHOTOS/PRISCILLAPresleyBeforeAfterSilicone.jpgFor those individuals who have been injected with silicone, there’s only one way to reverse the damage, and that’s with surgical removal of the silicone implants or injected material. I’m sure you know who Priscilla Presley is. She had huge amounts of silicone plumped into various areas of her face, resulting in near-distortion. Unfortunately, there’s little that can be done for her, as removing it now would create an even worse result. Lisa Rinna had silicone injected into her lips back in the 80′s. She was able to have her silicone removed, unlike Priscilla Presley.
Although the effect of silicone on one’s appearance can be disastrous, injected silicone possesses a lethal risk, as it can move through the blood steam and cause a clot in the lungs, which can potentially be fatal.
Don’t risk your health and safety for beauty. Know what’s being injected into your body. Better yet, stick with a board-certified plastic surgeon for your skin care and facial treatments.
To your health & beauty,
Dr. Terry Zimmerman (http://www.folsomskincare.com/doctor.html)



http://zimmermancenterblog.com/

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=39460&stc=1&d=1141772791

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=39460&stc=1&d=1141772791

Reinaldo Silvestre alias De Slager

Op TV: Death by Silicone (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#2b) (scenta.co.uk 28/08/04)

Feds say phony doctor arrested in Belize (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#opgepaktb) (AP October 8, 2004)

Fugitive Phony Florida Doctor Nabbed in Belize (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#universiteitb) (Reuters Oct 8, 2004)

Show looks at capture of 'butcher' of S. Beach (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#opgepakt2b) (Miami Herald Sat, Nov. 13, 2004)

'Butcher Of South Beach' Pleads Guilty To Disfiguring Victims (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#3b) (Local10.com March 15, 2006) Bogus Doctor Who Gave Man Breasts Gets Reduced Sentence.

'Butcher Of South Beach' Pleads Guilty (http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html#4b) (nbc6.net March 15, 2006) Unlicensed Plastic Surgeon To Serve Seven Years In Prison.





Death by Silicone

scenta.co.uk
Channel 4 - 21:00 25-08-2004

Documentary chronicling an investigation into back-street plastic surgeons in America. To combat the booming trend, a dedicated task force has been assigned to root out the unlicensed, bogus medics.

Horror stories shed light on the battle between vanity and victimisation, including the tale of a man who was operated upon while strapped to a plank in an office, and the mother of two who died following a botched procedure - a case which produced the first-ever murder prosecution resulting from cosmetic surgery

TODAY'S TV

PICK OF THE DAY Aug 25 2004

By Alun Palmer
DEATH BY SILICONE (9pm, C4)

IF you are of a nervous disposition then make a date to avoid C4 at all costs.

Across America, people armed with no medical knowledge and a syringe are carrying out illegal plastic surgery operations.

Some even hold parties and sip Chardonnay while pumping industrial-grade silicone, used to fill furniture and in car engines, into their victims' faces.

One had regular injections in a church car park while another had an op on a bar counter. Ronaldo Silvestre was dubbed the Butcher Of South Beach as he mutilated immigrants in Miami.

He shared an office, complete with "operating table", with an estate agent. Yet in one terrifying scene, in a video he shot himself, he is seen operating on a former world-champion bodybuilder.

The vain Mexican wanted firmer pecs so, using a cake spatula, the fake doctor tried to shove a woman's implant into his chest. In the background, the victim can be heard moaning repeatedly as he comes round from the anaesthetic. "He came out looking like a Playboy model," his lawyer said. Lawyers feature heavily. One, who represented a couple who killed a woman by inflating her buttocks to the size of a small hippo's, was really vile.

"It's not every day you represent a gay man and his transsexual lover charged with pumping silicone into someone's ass," he chortled, oblivious to the fact his client was sent down for 30 years and a woman was dead.

Feds say phony doctor arrested in Belize

AP
October 8, 2004


MIAMI BEACH, Fla. - A South Florida man wanted on charges of posing as a doctor and botching cosmetic surgery has been arrested in Belize, where he was teaching medicine.

http://www.ergogenics.org/images/051.jpg Federal agents say Reinaldo Silvestre is charged with organized fraud, aggravated battery, practicing medicine withOUT a license and grand theft. He will remain in custody in Belize until he is formally extradited to the United States.

Investigators say Silvestre performed operations on champion bodybuilder Alexander Baez and at least two women, resulting in gross disfigurement and severe physical and emotional pain. Police say Baez went to Silvestre's Ocean Health Center in Miami Beach to have his pectoral muscles enhanced. But he woke up to find he had been given female breast implants.

Baez' attorney also says veterinary anesthesia was used on his client, who woke up three times during the procedure


http://www.ergogenics.org/silvestre.html

[natina]

Silicone Injection To Buttock Killed Ga. Woman

Doctor: One In A Thousand People Who Get Silicone Injections Die


.
Woman Killed After Getting Silicone Injections


STONE MOUNTAIN, Ga. -- A potentially dangerous cosmetic practice has left some victims who had thought they would get fuller lips and shapelier bodies horribly and permanently deformed. In a metro Atlanta case, the procedure killed a woman.
A 29-year-old woman and her husband said they went to a Stone Mountain motel in May of 2009 where someone injected dimethyl silicone into her left buttock. The idea was to give her a larger, curvier rear end.
WSB-TV obtained the Gwinnett County Medical Examiner’s Autopsy Report, which said the woman reportedly developed trouble breathing.“ Emergency medical personnel were summoned, and the subject was transported to Emory Eastside Medical Center where she was pronounced dead, despite attempts at medical intervention,” the report said.
"They take someone's life for a five dollar tube of caulk. It's not right," said the victim's aunt, who did not want to be identified.
A medical expert with extensive experience with the procedure said it was all wrong from the beginning. Dr. Vikisha Fripp-Vincent, a board certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, trained at a New York hospital. Over and over, she said she saw patients who flew out of the U.S. to get cosmetic injections of silicone, flew back to America and rushed immediately from the international arrivals gate to a New York City emergency room.
“One in a thousand people who get silicone injections die,” said Dr. Fripp-Vincent. “The other 999 out of a thousand end up with permanent deformities.”
In the Stone Mountain case, the autopsy report concluded the cause of death was “silicone emboli within pulmonary vasculature due to injection of dimethyl silicone into left buttock.” Put simply, the silicone got into her bloodstream, traveled to her lungs, stopped circulation and killed her. Manner of death, said the autopsy report: “homicide.”
Dimethyl silicone is “a chemical first-cousin” to the silicone you use to caulk your bath tub???? It comes in a wide range of viscosities, or thicknesses, and is widely used as a lubricant. It is a clear, odorless, chemically inert, tasteless substance used in car polishes, vinyl fabric protectant and for lubricating rubber, plastic and machinery at a wide range of temperatures. But Dr. Fripp-Vincent said it is absolutely not approved for injecting into the human body, despite practitioners claiming they are using “medical grade” silicone.
She told Channel 2 Action News the silicone wraps around all the cells in the injection site and eventually hardens, so there is no way to get it out but to cut out the affected flesh. Often before hardening it oozes back out through ruptures in the skin. It causes gross deformities, Dr. Fripp-Vincent said.
She showed us a prosthetic breast implant, in which the silicone is safely encased in a pliable, plastic material. She pushed, tugged, stretched and yanked on the soft, pliable case and it did not break and release the silicone.
Doctors stress, once injected you can never get rid of the silicone. The swelling is permanent. In a Miami case, two people were convicted and sent to prison (one conviction was later overturned) for injecting silicone into a woman who died from it. In the Stone Mountain case, police said they have the name of a suspect who they believe has left the area and for whom they are looking.
The head of the Poison Control Center at Grady Memorial Hospital said a doctor in the emergency room there had one case of a man who had self-administered a silicone injection to enlarge his genital area. He went to the ER with deforming, swelling and extreme discomfort, the hospital said.
Channel 2 did not get details about the treatment. Said Channel 2 reporter Jeff Dore, “I really didn’t want to go there.”

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/23320657/detail.html

[Nicole Dupre]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... ?... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[Nicole Dupre]

Serial Killer Convicted - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Muuc60bAY0)

[natina]

21 ass shots of silicone

shemale butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNeF70qjTU)


In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)

[natina]

THE DANGERS OF FREELY INJECTED SILICONE

by Queenz Of Media (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media)

in Entertainment (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/entertainment)
Airdate: Tue, Apr 7, 2009
follow (http://my.blogtalkradio.com/user/favorites.aspx)
Call in number to speak with the host


If you liked this show, you can follow Queenz Of Media. (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media/2009/04/07/the-dangers-of-freely-injected-silicone#)
0 comments (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media/2009/04/07/the-dangers-of-freely-injected-silicone#comments)
h:38187
s:484831
archived
Tonight The Queenz of Media Will be confronting the dangers of an illegal and blakmarket "procedure" that is destroying the lifes of thousands of transgendered women.. FREELY INJECTED SILICONE! We will be joined by several ladies that have written us after hearing our previous shows on this subject, who are currently suffering from this procedure. Tonight at 12:30am eastern standard time.



THE DANGERS OF FREELY INJECTED SILICONE

by Queenz Of Media (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media)

in Entertainment (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/entertainment)
Airdate: Tue, Apr 7, 2009
follow (http://my.blogtalkradio.com/user/favorites.aspx)
Call in number to speak with the host


If you liked this show, you can follow Queenz Of Media. (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media/2009/04/07/the-dangers-of-freely-injected-silicone#)
0 comments (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media/2009/04/07/the-dangers-of-freely-injected-silicone#comments)
h:38187
s:484831
archived
Tonight The Queenz of Media Will be confronting the dangers of an illegal and blakmarket "procedure" that is destroying the lifes of thousands of transgendered women.. FREELY INJECTED SILICONE! We will be joined by several ladies that have written us after hearing our previous shows on this subject, who are currently suffering from this procedure. Tonight at 12:30am eastern standard time. [url]




[URL]http://www.blogtalkradio.com/queenz_of_media/2009/04/07/the-dangers-of-freely-injected-silicone


Getting Real About Silicone Injections and Transsexual Women (http://www.calpernia.com/getting-real-about-silicone-injections-and-transsexual-women/)

The excellent Queenz of Media podcast has posted a sobering interview with Dr. Samir Shurieh (sp?) on the real life consequences and options surrounding free silicone injections. Dr. Shurieh has many years of experience in dealing with the aftermath of silicone injections in trans women, and he answers questions on injectable silicone from trans women who call in from all over the country. He presents a no-nonsense picture of silicone injections, their results and the treatment of patients who experience aesthetic and/or medical complications. A MUST LISTEN for all trans women who have had silicone injections, or who are considering them:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Queenz_OF_Media/2009/04/07/THE-DANGERS-OF-FREELY-INJECTED-SILICONE (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Queenz_OF_Media/2009/04/07/THE-DANGERS-OF-FREELY-INJECTED-SILICONE)

http://www.calpernia.com/getting-real-about-silicone-injections-and-transsexual-women/


Also see the recent New York Times piece:
A Cheap, Fast and Possibly Deadly Route to Beauty
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/nyregion/17silicone.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/nyregion/17silicone.html)
It profiles Fiordaliza Pichardo, who died a day after receiving a silicone injection. She had received several earlier ones without dying. The cosmetologist who performed it paid her condolences to the family before fleeing the country.
And Andrea James’ TSRoadmap page on silicone:
http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/ (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/)

[justafreak]

scary stuff

[natina]

" FAKE BOOTY-YOUTUBE" a pumping video in spanish

who canb translate what the tv show is and what the text says?

FAKE BOOTY. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gadkbSrwwHE)


shemale butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNeF70qjTU)



21 ass shots of silicone

shemale butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNeF70qjTU)


In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)

[natina]

Under Pressure, Doctor Stops Silicone Injections

By PHILIP J. HILTS
Published: February 06, 1992
Dr. Norman Orentreich, the New York doctor who was a prominent advocate of using injected silicone to smooth wrinkles, halted the practice on Monday because of pressure from a Federal investigation, his lawyer said today.
The investigators are looking into doctors who have continued to inject silicone despite reports over the years of occasional catastrophic results like permanent sores and lumps. In rare cases, large amounts were injected and death resulted when the silicone migrated to the lungs.
Dr. David A. Kessler, Commissioner of Food and Drugs, has barred the interstate shipment of silicone for injection; Dr. Orentreich says he obtains silicone in New York and purifies it himself.

Peter Safir, a lawyer for Dr. Orentreich, said the doctor stopped injecting silicone on Monday. On Sunday, The New York Times reported details of the investigation in an article about the potential hazards of silicone injection.
Mr. Safir said that Dr. Orentreich maintains "absolutely that these injections are safe."
Dr. Orentreich leads the Orentreich Medical Group, a practice on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan that includes several physicians and carries out a variety of cosmetic surgery procedures. The practice became well known over the years because of the celebrities who came to Dr. Orentreich for silicone injections. He was an outspoken advocate of the injections, which had been outlawed in California and Nevada.
The Food and Drug Administration is also investigating other doctors who have used silicone injections and has sent warning letters to Dr. Richard Aronsohn in Los Angeles, Dr. Ricardo Samitier-Cardet in Miami and Dr. James E. Fulton Jr. in Orange County, Calif..
Representative Ted Weiss, a Manhattan Democrat who has investigated both injections and gel implants for more than a year, said today: "I applaud Dr. Kessler's decision to finally halt the illegal use of silicone, but it is sad that previous commissioners allowed this dangerous practice to continue for more than 25 years. It was not until Congress and the media focused attention on the risks of silicone that the F.D.A. finally acted to halt the practice of some of the most outspoken advocates of silicone injections."
The F.D.A. and Dr. Orentreich's lawyers are negotiating over a consent agreement under which Dr. Orentreich would halt his use of silicone injections to avoid an immediate injunction and a seizure of the liquid silicone at his offices.


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/06/us/under-pressure-doctor-stops-silicone-injections.html



Medical grade silicone is not just based on the grade of silicone being used. If the grade is pure but the container is open to the air then it is not medical grade anymore. Real medical grade silicone comes in a closed container similar to a bottle of hormones and is air tight. Also if you price a bottle of “real” silicone, it’s very very very expensive.

No one is getting pumped with medical grade silicone by a pumper, you might get a very high grade of silicone but it’s not medical grade. Silicone is silicone, if its caulk at home depot or in a doctor’s office….what makes certain silicone medical grade is that it’s pure and all impurities were removed. Like I said above, if you go to a pumper and there is a jug in the open AIR, just by the air hitting the substance makes it no longer medical grade.

Some pumpers purify the silicone themselves, it can be done. Research Dr. Norman Orentreich, he is dead now but was a pioneer of injectable silicone. He was a dermatologist and back in the 60’s he used to buy and purify the silicone himself. His office is run by his son in NYC and they still do silicone injections.

I have silicone in my hips and butt and love the ‘results’. I stress the word ‘results’ because the ‘results’ are a gamble, it all depends on how your body will react to the foreign substance, complications can happen and your body can reject the substance,. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t of gotten pumped, only because the risk is too high. If you hit a vein and inject silicone into the blood stream you’re done dead bye-bye lol, when I think of that I can’t believe I took that chance, today I find my life far too valuable to chance it. I was LUCKY and love my body, but with the possibility of complications or death it’s not worth taking the chance and I would not recommend anyone getting pumped.

[natina]

http://creationwiki.org/Silicon

Silicon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon)




http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2005-10/making-silicon-sand

Melting silicon 'in reverse' can help purify it, result in cheaper electronics

Just our favorite combination of news: a mind-bending innovation (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/electromagnetically-induced-transparency-could-create-a-quantum/) that can have a very practical impact (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/31/breast-cancer-vaccine-proves-successful-in-tests-on-mice-moves/) on our daily tech consumption. MIT scientists have found that silicon -- when combined in the right dosage with other metals -- can actually be made to melt by reducing its temperature. Typically, you'd require 1,414 degrees of Celsius heat to liquidize solid silicon, but the intermixed variant discussed here need only reach 900 degrees before its slow cooling process starts turning it gooey. The great advantage to this discovery is that because the impurities tend to separate off into the liquid part, there's now a practicable way to filter them out, meaning that things like solar cells (http://www.engadget.com/all/solarcells) won't require the same high grade of silicon purity for their construction -- which in turn might lead to us being able to afford them one day. Of course, that's getting way too far ahead of ourselves, as the research is still ongoing, but good news is good news no matter the timescale.


Making Silicon from Sand (http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2005-10/making-silicon-sand)
http://www.popsci.com/files/category_pictures/gray-matter-green.png (http://www.popsci.com/taxonomy/term/197)

In a chemical reaction straight out of Harry Potter, you can turn dirt into the building block of every computer



http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/h201005silicon_730.jpgby Mike Walker A Reactive Moment
Magnesium, hydrogen and silane burn off while the purified silicon falls Mike Walker


Dept.:Gray Matter
Element:Silicon
Project: Purifying it
Time: 4 hours
Cost: $40
Dabbler | | | | | MasterThe industrial economy may someday run out of one of its essential natural resources, oil, but at least the high-tech economy is safe in its supply of silicon, the element that is the key ingredient in every computer processor. Its oxide form, known as silica or quartz, is dirt-common. In fact, it is dirt: Almost all kinds of sand, clay and rock contain silica in one form or another, and overall more than half the Earth's crust is made of silica.Industrially, silica is converted to pure silicon by heating it with coke (the form of coal, not the drink) in a furnace. But there's an even easier, if less cost-effective, method that I learned from Jason Stainer, a science teacher in England. All you have to do is heat a mixture of common silica sand and magnesium powder in a test tube. The magnesium steals the oxygen atoms from the silica, leaving elemental silicon.
No reaction is perfect, and in this case you're left with a mixture of magnesium, magnesium oxide, magnesium silicide and silicon in the bottom of the test tube. Fortunately, the best way to purify it is also the most entertaining. I told my eight-year-old Harry Potter fan that I had prepared a fire potion.
First pour one cup of what is sold in any hardware store as muriatic acid (37% HCl) into five cups of water. (Not the other way around. The old chemist's saying "Do as you oughta, add acid to watta" is there to protect you from steam explosions that can occur if water is poured into acid instead of acid into water.) Then dump in the contents of the test tube, and you'll get a wonderful frothing mass of flaming bubbles and a lovely mushroom cloud of smoke. This is one of the best can't-fail fire potions. (I can also do levitation potions [Gray Matter, February 2004], although I've had to explain to my daughter that since we live in a Muggle zone, I'm allowed to levitate only very small objects.)


Chemically speaking, several things happen when the powder hits the acid. Any leftover magnesium powder reacts with the acid to produce hydrogen gas. The magnesium silicide reacts with the acid to produce silane gas, which spontaneously combusts on contact with air, giving off little pops that ignite the
nearby swirls of hydrogen gas.
If there is still some magnesium powder floating in the air, it catches fire too, creating a bright flash and a puff of white smoke. You get three forms of fire in one, and the powder falling to the bottom of the bowl is purified elemental silicon. Spells are fantasy, but potions are real, and this is a great one.

Click to see a reactive moment. Magnesium, hydrogen and silane burn off while the purified silicon falls to the bottom.
ACHTUNG!

Theodore Gray is trained in lab-safety procedures. If you try this at home, you do so at your own risk. Find more info on Gray's scientific pursuits at periodictabletable.com (http://www.periodictabletable.com/).







http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/02/melting-silicon-in-reverse-can-help-purify-it-result-in-cheap/



silicone (http://www.indiamart.com/biotechvisioncare/enquiry.html?pname=Bio%20Hyalur) only FDA APROVED FOR RETINA DETACHMENT PURPOSES

Biosil & Biosil-F Purified Silicone Oil


http://2.imimg.com/data2/BD/QD/IMFCP-1516633/biosil488-01-250x250.jpg
http://fcp.imimg.com/gifs/zero.gif
biosil / biosil-f is an ultra purified silicone oil which leads a maximum interfacial tension and minimizes interactions between tissues, cells and endo-tamponades media. The physical properties include a combination of specific gravity, refractive index and surface tension.

[natina]

COCO ASS LOOKS GREAT


21 ass shots of silicone

shemale butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNeF70qjTU)


In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)



21 ass shots of silicone

shemale butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNeF70qjTU)


In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)

[SirCumsAlot]

are you some kind of researcher or something?

[natina]

WELL SAID

BRAVO!
:iagree::iagree::Bowdown:

I've posted this before, but I guess it was on old board and all those messages got wiped out, so I will post it again.

I actually work for a company that makes silicones. No, it is not the company most famous for silicone implants. Anyway silicone pumping is dangerous. The term "medical grade silicone" is not meant to imply that these products can or should be injected subcutaneously. Medical grade or USP grade silicones are products that can be used in over the counter oral medications as anti gas agents. The should not be injected.

While these products are sterile, silicones are not safe because they are inert and migratory. The volumes that are used in pumping for hips especially are unbeleivable and were never envisioned even by the folks that experimented with them in the 90's for AIDs wasting and wrinkle reduction. Do not use them!



I've posted this before, but I guess it was on old board and all those messages got wiped out, so I will post it again.

I actually work for a company that makes silicones. No, it is not the company most famous for silicone implants. Anyway silicone pumping is dangerous. The term "medical grade silicone" is not meant to imply that these products can or should be injected subcutaneously. Medical grade or USP grade silicones are products that can be used in over the counter oral medications as anti gas agents. The should not be injected.

While these products are sterile, silicones are not safe because they are inert and migratory. The volumes that are used in pumping for hips especially are unbeleivable and were never envisioned even by the folks that experimented with them in the 90's for AIDs wasting and wrinkle reduction. Do not use them!

[natina]

Lethal Beauty - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckLXhYUU2aw&feature=related)



Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 1 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMAs8rGMlg)


Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 2 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAmjTD1pKLw&annotation_id=annotation_820327&src_vid=uRMAs8rGMlg&feature=iv)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=kAmjTD1pKLw&v=yOYKM1k2p3g



http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=yOYKM1k2p3g

[natina]

http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/tragic-endings-for-beauty


Tragic endings for beauty



http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/profile_small/hash/a5/5b/a55b86c9229ad083feb0b62e9e310370.JPG (http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/april-maley)April Maley (http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/april-maley)

, Chicago Plastic Surgery Examiner



http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/hash/52/90/5290895ea6847236e95b0f1f6dfe4dec.jpg (http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/buttimplant-l-jpg-photo)
silicone injectionsCredits:
http://wdbo.com/markets/orlando/images/2010/03/buttimplant_l.jpg





Most people familiar with silicone injections think of breast implants. There is currently a dangerous trend that is affecting many Hispanic and Brazilian communities. It seems to be dominating both of these cultures in a deadly way.
Some believe that it stems from them wanting the “J-Lo” booty, with the fuller, more voluptuous backside, but whatever the reason con artists are targeting these two communities with a steadfast persistence. The “black markets” are looking to these unsuspecting patients because of the poorer communities where there is less education and awareness when it comes to these cosmetic procedures.
The silicone that is used in breast augmentation today is an FDA approved medical grade silicone. Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Dr. Leslie H. Stevens is quotes as saying “Common sense should tell you that something is not right when you're having a medical procedure in some one's home. A more likely scenario is that the victim knew what she was doing and unfortunately was willing to take her chances."
Another example of this type of cosmetic surgery gone wrong is what occurred with Pricilla Presley. This plastic surgeon did “injection” parties for celebrities. Ms. Presley received bad silicone injections, which became uneven facial lumps. Later it was found out that the “doctor” had no medical license, and had used car grade silicone that is typically used by automobile mechanics.
This past December a model and mother of two decided to have this procedure done. The silicone that was injected into her buttocks caused a blood clot to lodge into her lungs, and eventually a pulmonary embolism ended her life. Is the cost worth that price?
Another instance was this past March in New Jersey 6 different women were hospitalized after they were given “silicone” injections into their rear ends. After all six eventually were hospitalized, where surgery and large doses of antibiotics were administered, they found out that the silicone was cement like substance that contractors use to caulk bathroom tiles.
Indiana plastic surgeon Dr. Barry L. Eppley says there's even a strategy at play. “The trap is set up from the beginning. They say the procedure is simple and offer a very low cost, and then find people who will bypass anything for convenience and price," says Eppley.
Patients need to be aware that there is no permanent filler. The FDA for any other body parts has not approved these silicone injections at this time. The alternative is the implants that are similar to the breast augmentations done today and fat injections. It is known as the “Brazilian Butt Lift”.
It seems to be mainly affecting only the Latin American and South American cultures because in the United States it is the 3rd least form of cosmetic surgery with only 3,900 done in 2009 alone.
Lastly, make sure that the cosmetic surgeon is fully accredited; FDA approved, and they use the highest standard level of care. You only have one life, and any type of enhancement that is not life threatening, you are taking the chance of paying with that one life.
http://www.eppleplasticsurgery.com (http://www.eppleplasticsurgery.com/)






Continue reading on Examiner.com Tragic endings for beauty - Chicago Plastic Surgery | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/tragic-endings-for-beauty#ixzz1dT6cb5Kq) http://www.examiner.com/plastic-surgery-in-chicago/tragic-endings-for-beauty#ixzz1dT6cb5Kq

Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 1 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMAs8rGMlg)

[natina]

Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 1 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMAs8rGMlg)

[natina]

Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 1 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMAs8rGMlg)


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=926597

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=39460&stc=1&d=1141772791 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=235421&stc=1&d=1240232726 http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/news/wired-sheathfailure_f.jpg


http://gotpummped.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/silicone-diva.jpg


silicone issues with face


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=244680&stc=1&d=1244773159




never inject silicone into your face







http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=244683&stc=1&d=1244777149



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=244682&stc=1&d=1244777169



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=244681&stc=1&d=1244777187

















http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/softtissue_files/image002.jpg

http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/softtissue.html
http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/softtissue.html (http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/softtissue.html)



http://www.kapelovitz.com/images/plastic4.jpg

[natina]

MICRO FAT INJECTIONS with current medicine, once fat is processed it stays
this is current medicine
its discussed in his FAQ's
http://www.betterbuttocks.com/better...ofatphotos.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm)

Brazilian Butt
Dr Matlock USING FAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfa...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM)

you can have fat put in your cheeks, butt and hips est. http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm

for example look at the fat grafting here for breast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)

http://www.makemeheal.com/news/butto...n-implants/117 (http://www.makemeheal.com/news/buttock-augmentation-implants/117)


JUST FOR FUN
http://forladiesbyladies.com/index.p...better-health/ (http://forladiesbyladies.com/index.php/2009/03/16/ten-odes-to-big-butts-and-better-health/)


Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=234922&stc=1&d=1240012824 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=234923&stc=1&d=1240013012

[natina]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kC5MT2r5U8s/SI12FMgVGGI/AAAAAAAAEgA/GYNVilupS1Q/s320/ts-vega+olivia+perry.jpg
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/433751/80465721.jpg




http://a.abcnews.com/health/diet/wid...iew?id=6858351 (http://a.abcnews.com/health/diet/widgets/mainNews/preview?id=6858351)

Toxic Butt-Boosting Shots Send Women to Hospital

http://a.abcnews.com/Health/Wellness...6858351&page=1 (http://a.abcnews.com/Health/WellnessNews/story?id=6858351&page=1)

http://myherooftheday.com/wp-content...ne-300x300.jpg (http://myherooftheday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/butt-injection-silicone-300x300.jpg)

Dermatology Online Journal

Foreign body granuloma formation secondary to silicone injection
Elissa M Schwartzfarb1, Juan Martin Hametti MD2, Paolo Romanelli MD1, Carlos Ricotti MD1
Dermatology Online Journal 14 (7): 20

1. University of Miami Miller School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology and Cutaneous Surgery
2. Universidad del Salvador Facultad de Medicina Argentina. c@ricotti.net (c@ricotti.net)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Abstract
Injectable silicone has been used extensively over the last 40 years for soft tissue augmentation. Although considered biologically inert, this material has been implicated in a variety of adverse reactions including granulomas, disfiguring nodules, and lymphedema, sometimes with latent periods of decades. Often these complications are a result of the use of industrial grade products injected by unlicensed or unskilled practitioners. Here we report a case of foreign body granuloma in the thigh secondary to silicone injection in the buttocks. Initially the patient did not disclose a cosmetic contouring procedure administered by a nonprofessional nine months earlier, making diagnosis difficult. We remind clinicians to include foreign body granulomas in the differential diagnosis of apparent cellulitis and to question patients about the use of injectable fillers.



Introduction
The use of injectable silicone for cosmetic purposes is becoming increasingly popular. The rise in nonprofessional use of questionably pure silicone may increase the incidence of granulomatous inflammatory complications. We present one case of foreign body granuloma formation following injection of silicone into the buttocks by a nonprofessional [1].



Clinical Synopsis
A 40-year-old otherwise healthy Hispanic woman was referred to our dermatology clinic for evaluation of a 4-month history of "recurrent cellulitis" of the right lower extremity. During this interval she was hospitalized twice for administration of intravenous antibiotics, which she claims to have temporarily improved the skin changes and associated pain. She attributed the lesion to trauma to her right leg weeks before these recurrent episodes had begun. After detailed questioning and specifically asking her if she had any cosmetic procedures or injections to the area, she reported having a series of liquid silicone injections in the buttocks performed by a nonprofessional for cosmetic contouring approximately 9 months prior to presentation. In this patient, medical grade silicone was purportedly used, but its administration by a nonprofessional raises a question of credibility.



Figure 1 Figure 2
Figures 1 & 2. Right thigh: multiple erythematous, indurated and tender plaques

On physical exam, multiple large erythematous, tender and indurated plaques were appreciated over the right thigh and buttocks (Figs. 1 & 2). There was no lymphadenopathy. Tissue cultures performed were negative for atypical mycobacteria, bacteria and fungus. Lower extremity duplex dopplers were negative for deep venous thrombosis and radiograph of the right lower extremity was normal. Pathology was consistent with a foreign body granuloma formation secondary to silicone. Dilated vacuoles of variable size were present throughout the subcutaneous tissues, surrounded by a granulomatous lymphohistiocytic infiltrate (Figs. 3 & 4). The patient was initially treated with prednisone 30 mg daily and minocycline with improvement of induration and pain. Once prednisone was tapered to 2.5 mg per day the patient returned to clinic with increasing pain and induration in the right thigh.



Figure 3 Figure 4
Figure 3. Routine histological evaluation (10x magnification) shows round to oval vacuoles of varying size surrounded by histiocytes and few multinucleate giant cells (inset) in the deep dermis.
Figure 4. Routine histological evaluation at 40x magnification showed histiocytes with some with foamy cytoplasm


Discussion
The incidence of granuloma formation in patients injected with medical grade silicone is relatively low, although some reports have suggested they may occur in up to 20 percent of patients receiving injections. Granulomatous reactions may occur from 3 weeks to 20 years after injection and can be severely debilitating, adversely affecting quality of life [2].

Granuloma formation has been attributed to a natural host response to wall off exogenous substances too large to be ingested by macrophages [3]. Trauma and infection have been reported prior to silicone granuloma formation and they have been thought to be triggers for the formation of foreign body granulomas [2]. Migration of injected material has also been reported and was noted in our patient as the migration from buttocks to inner and posterior thigh.

With an increase in cosmetic procedures being performed by nonprofessionals, foreign body reactions may become more commonly encountered in clinical settings. In South Florida, we frequently see such reactions. The patient's hesitancy to reveal the unlicensed silicone injections led to a delay in diagnosis, hospital admission, extensive testing, and intravenous antibiotic therapy. Because a latent period is common, it is possible that patients may not initially remember previous procedures. It is important for the physician to consider foreign body reactions in the face of cellulitis non-responsive to appropriate antibiotic therapy.

References
1. Chasan PE. The history of injectable silicone fluids for soft-tissue augmentation. Plast Reconstr Surg. 2007 Dec;120(7):2034-40; discussion 2041-3. PubMed

2. Rapaport MJ, Vinnik C, Zarem H. Injectable silicone: cause of facial nodules, cellulitis, ulceration, and migration. Aesthetic Plast Surg. 1996;20:267-76. PubMed

3. Bigatà X, Ribera M, Bielsa I, Ferrándiz C. Adverse granulomatous reaction after cosmetic dermal silicone injection. Dermatol Surg. 2001;27:198-200. PubMed


Dermatology Online Journal



http://dermatology.cdlib.org/147/let...e/ricotti.html (http://dermatology.cdlib.org/147/letter/silicone/ricotti.html)

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/147/letter/silicone/4s.jpg


http://dermatology.cdlib.org/147/letter/silicone/3s.jpg


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=237425&stc=1&d=1241227258 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=237426&stc=1&d=1241227219

[natina]

A cheap and possibly deadly route to beauty

Illegal use of silicone as alternative to cosmetic surgery may be on the rise


By Anemona Hartocollis and Christina Davidson

updated 12:00 p.m. PT, Fri., April 17, 2009
NEW YORK - Like almost every woman, Fiordaliza Pichardo just wanted to look beautiful, so a few years ago, she began getting silicone injections from a woman she met through a friend in order to plump up her thighs and derriere.

She never expected to pay such a high price for her looks.
In March, a day after receiving an injection, Ms. Pichardo, 43, died of what the medical examiner later determined was a silicone embolism in her lungs.

The city’s health department fears that the illegal use of silicone as an alternative to cosmetic surgery is on the rise. The city’s poison control center has received three calls in the last 10 months from doctors who have treated patients injected with silicone; Ms. Pichardo’s case was not among them. In the previous two years, there were only two such cases.

Health department officials say there may be other cases that have gone unreported, since doctors are not legally obligated to report silicone poisoning or even death, and since silicone is hard to detect through X-rays or CT scans. The department was planning Thursday to send an advisory by e-mail and fax to thousands of doctors advising them to watch for silicone poisoning cases.

Nationally, reports of buttock enhancement using silicone and similar thick liquids have surfaced from the Northeast to Miami, and the Food and Drug Administration is also planning to issue a warning on the dangers of such practices, Siobhan DeLancey, a spokeswoman, said Thursday.

“This seems to be kind of an underground occurrence, so it’s difficult to get numbers of actual events and to know exactly what these people are being injected with,” Ms. DeLancey said. “It’s important to note that none of the products that are reportedly being used are approved for this purpose.”

Ms. DeLancey said silicone was not approved for injection into tissues at all, only for use in the eyes and in certain implants where it is contained and cannot leak into tissue. She said the F.D.A. had the ability to conduct criminal investigations, and would encourage victims to come forward “so that we can document the problem.”

Across the Internet, chat rooms, Web sites and blogs have sprung up discussing buttock injections.

The victims have become caught up in an underground beauty industry that uses injections of black-market, medical-grade silicone or industrial-grade silicone as a cheap, fast and easily accessible way to plump up breasts, buttocks, thighs and even wrinkles.

The injections are popular among Latina women and transgender women, who may be unable to afford conventional plastic surgery and who tap into it through unlicensed practitioners working through word of mouth, city officials said.

Although side effects are fairly rare, silicone can migrate through the bloodstream, creating potentially fatal clots in the lungs, as it did in Ms. Pichardo’s case, said Dr. Nathan M. Graber, director of environmental and occupational disease epidemiology for the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. It can also migrate through tissues, leading to ugly lumps and chronic pain.

The injections are administered at home, in motel rooms, in makeshift offices or at “pumping parties,” where the guests take turns injecting one another, officials said.

Young transgender women often seek out silicone injections because they are a quick way of making bodies more feminine, unlike hormone treatments, which may take years to work, said Dr. Nick Gorton, an emergency room doctor who treats transgender patients at the Lyon-Martin Health Services clinic in San Francisco.

“If you go to a pumping party, you can have it tonight,” Dr. Gorton said. “It’s a big temptation, especially among young people who, when you’re 20, you’re not thinking about your own mortality.”

People are often reluctant to report side effects, because they feel that they are turning in a member of their community, health officials said.

Industrial-grade silicone can be bought at a hardware store. But Dr. Graber said there have been reports of the use of substitutes like castor oil, mineral oil, petroleum jelly and even automobile transmission fluid.

Difficult diagnosis
Dr. Suhail Raoof, chief of pulmonary medicine at New York Methodist Hospital, treated a woman with silicone poisoning in 2007. She came in complaining of shortness of breath, chest pain and coughing, reminiscent of pneumonia, he said, and told doctors that she had been injected with about 500 milliliters of silicone in each buttock about half an hour earlier.

Because silicone is not visible on an X-ray or a CT scan, Dr. Raoof said, diagnosis is difficult without a biopsy. Doctors used deduction to diagnose the cause of the woman’s symptoms, and she survived, he said.

Ms. Pichardo was not so lucky.

Ms. Pichardo’s 19-year-old daughter, Marinés Rodriguez, said that her mother began getting silicone injections several years ago after a friend introduced her to a cosmetologist.

Ms. Rodriguez said the cosmetologist went to Ms. Pichardo’s home in the Bronx and to other clients in Manhattan and Miami. A cup of silicone cost $800, and the cosmetologist would inject half a cup to two cups in a single session, Ms. Rodriguez said. Her mother, she said, “didn’t really care about the price. It was more that she knew somebody who had this first.”

Ms. Pichardo came to trust the woman. “She felt that was her friend, nothing could go wrong,” Ms. Rodriguez said.

Ms. Pichardo was last injected on March 17, and died the next day. Doctors thought she had pneumonia, Ms. Rodriguez said, and the family never thought to mention the silicone injections — which were discovered during the autopsy — because they thought they were harmless.

The medical examiner has ruled her death a homicide because she was injected by an unlicensed nonmedical practitioner, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner. No charges have been filed. Paul J. Browne, a police spokesman, said, “We believe she has fled to the Dominican Republic and we are in discussions with the district attorney as to next steps.”

Ms. Rodriguez said the family was distraught, but found it hard to be angry. The day after her mother died, she said, the cosmetologist visited to pay her condolences. “We didn’t think she did it on purpose,” she said.

This article, "A Cheap, Fast and Possibly Deadly Route to Beauty," first appeared in The New York Times.

Copyright © 2009 The New York Times

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30267013 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30267013)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/ny...e.html?_r=1&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/nyregion/17silicone.html?_r=1&hp)


http://www.hungangels.com/board/view...er=asc&start=0 (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=42080&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

http://www.hungangels.com/board/view...r=asc&start=10 (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=28186&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10)


Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=234910&stc=1&d=1240011192 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=234911&stc=1&d=1240011178 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=234912&stc=1&d=1240011160

[natina]

Home » Headlines, Poisoning
Two Tampa Women Hospitalized After Homemade Silicone Injections
Submitted by MedHeadlines on 12 February, 2009 – 22:262 Comments
Email This Article Print
Two women from Tampa, Florida, are suffering serious health consequences after they allowed a woman to inject their buttocks with a homemade silicon solution to enhance their appearances. Both women, in their 30s, were hospitalized after the injections made them gravely ill.

Police arrested Sharhonda Lindsay, 32, on two counts of practicing medicine without a license, a third-degree felony that could bring a five-year jail sentence. She brewed up a concoction of commercial-grade silicone gel and saline in a kitchen before injecting it into one of the hospitalized women 40 times in the buttocks and the other woman 20 times. Lindsay was paid $500 for the 40 injections and $250 for the 20.

Within hours, one of the women became ill and was hospitalized early the following morning. She was suffering damage to her kidneys that was so severe she still requires dialysis and her mother says it isn’t known yet if the dialysis will be a permanent situation.

Medical experts suggest the untrained Lindsay may have injected the brew into a blood vessel by accident, thereby causing the organ damage both women experienced. They also say the frequency of turning to unlicensed people for cosmetic enhancements such as this is not as rare as might be expected. And they fear the nation’s economic crisis may persuade more women to turn to substandard cosmetic enhancements instead of to the qualified doctors licensed to provide these treatments safely and professionally.

People are using industrial-grade silicone, paraffin wax, and vegetable and baby oils, and following internet instructions on self-injection at an alarming rate, according to Dr. Julius Few. The trend is growing so rapidly that Few and some of his colleagues founded the Coalition for Injectable Safety to increase public awareness and educate potential victims against the risks associated with the practice. Few, a clinical associate of the University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine, is also director of The Few Institute for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery.

All cosmetic treatments, including silicone injections into any part of the body, are surgical procedures that must be done by licensed practitioners only, be they a dermatologist, plastic or cosmetic surgeon, or any other qualified individual licensed by the state of operation. A safe, sterile setting is required.

Anyone claiming to legally administer such treatments in a spa, hotel room, garage, or in anyone’s home, regardless of the cost, is operating under false pretenses that can be very dangerous. According to the mother of the Tampa woman, such a quest for inexpensive, artificial curves is “committing suicide,” “playing Russian roulette with your life.”

The average cost of a “Buttock Lift” procedure is $4,885 (Source ASAPS)






In The Life: Beauty on the Black Market
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)


http://www.calpernia.com/getting-rea...ssexual-women/ (http://www.calpernia.com/getting-real-about-silicone-injections-and-transsexual-women/)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Queenz_...ECTED-SILICONE (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Queenz_OF_Media/2009/04/07/THE-DANGERS-OF-FREELY-INJECTED-SILICONE)


http://wcbstv.com/health/silicone.in....2.975555.html (http://wcbstv.com/health/silicone.injections.botched.2.975555.html)

http://medheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/silicone.jpg


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=247261&stc=1&d=1245802184 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=247668&stc=1&d=1245878469


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=251844&stc=1&d=1246871457


http://www.tsroadmap.com/images/silicone.jpg

Trangender patient whos done silicone pumpings on her face. What an ugly sight.
http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/metro_silicone.jpg


This procedure is illegal and very dangerous, but there are still people out there doing it, just like heroin. Rather than just say, "Don't do heroin," it's better to get heroin users to reduce their risks. The same is true with silicone. This will always be a problem in our community as long as there are young and poor women desperate for quick and cheap feminization of their faces and bodies.

Make no mistake, injected silicone can and does kill several transgendered women a year and disfigures many more. Rather than just say it's bad, it's important to get the word out with examples of why it's bad. So you can decide if the risks are worth it.

FDA warnings:

U.S. Food and Drug Administration documents show links to autoimmune disorders, connective tissue disorders, genetic mutations, and cancer.

From http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ost/rpt97/OST1997AR86.HTML (http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ost/rpt97/OST1997AR86.HTML)

Autoimmune diseases have been reported in women with silicone breast implants. The presence of autoantibodies in some of the women, as well as studies in experimental animals, suggest that silicone may play a role in these adverse effects on the immune system.

Our earlier studies have shown that silicone gel/oil can promote autoantibody production against the connective tissue proteins, collagen, and can migrate from the implant site to other parts of the body.

Serum samples of 180 women have been analyzed for autoantibodies to collagen, a connective tissue protein. Patients included women with or without breast implants, with or without autoimmune symptoms, and from normal controls. Autoantibodies to collagen were detected in patients with connective tissue disease + silicone breast implants, with connective tissue disease without silicone breast implants, and with silicone breast implants without connective tissue disease. Autoantibodies to collagen were not detected in control sera from normal volunteers.

Published studies also have shown that animals with autoimmune disease produce antibodies against their own DNA. We have found anti-DNA antibodies in the serum of experimental animals injected with silicone gel/oil. Based on these results we will determine if women with breast implants also produce autoantibodies against DNA.

From http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/collagen.html (http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/collagen.html)

Has liquid silicone been approved by FDA for injection?

No. FDA has not approved the marketing of liquid silicone for injection for any cosmetic purpose, including the treatment of facial defects or wrinkles, or enlarging the breasts. The adverse effects of liquid silicone injections have included movement of the silicone to other parts of the body, inflammation and discoloration of surrounding tissues, and the formation of granulomas (nodules of granulated, inflamed tissue).

Can FDA prohibit doctors from promoting the injection of liquid silicone, since its marketing has not been approved?

Yes. FDA prohibits manufacturers or doctors from marketing or promoting unapproved products such as liquid silicone. This means that a doctor cannot legally advertise or sell this material.

From http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/forum97/97G14.htm (http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/forum97/97G14.htm)

FDA on mutations and cancer (foreign body carcinogenesis):

After 12 months, fibrosarcoma in situ developed in 100% of rats implanted with either silicone or cellulose.

AEGIS warnings:

The American Educational Gender Information Service (AEGIS) was an important early TG advocate in the field of health issues. They put out a series of articles, ads and pamphlets called Dangerous Curves Ahead, which remains an important overview of injectable silicone's dangers.

Advisories against the procedure:

http://www.gender.org/resources/curves.html (http://www.gender.org/resources/curves.html)

http://www.gender.org/resources/bad_news.html (http://www.gender.org/resources/bad_news.html) <-- highly recommended

http://www.gender.org/resources/malas_noticias.html (http://www.gender.org/resources/malas_noticias.html) (traduccion en español)

Other warnings and reports:

American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery advisory against the procedure:

http://surgery.org/news_releases/oct3001silicone.html (http://surgery.org/news_releases/oct3001silicone.html)

Side effects described by victim:

http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu:16080/forum_2/SiliconeRelatedF/11.6.998.29AMREMOVALOFFAC.html (http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu:16080/forum_2/SiliconeRelatedF/11.6.998.29AMREMOVALOFFAC.html)

Granulomas:

http://ej.rsna.org/ej3/0112-99.fin/body/introduction-4.htm (http://ej.rsna.org/ej3/0112-99.fin/body/introduction-4.htm)

Report on the silicone craze in Florida:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA020128Silicone_lip_investigation.html (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA020128Silicone_lip_investigation.html)

http://www.click10.com/mia/news/stories/news-56479220010329-130339.html (http://www.click10.com/mia/news/stories/news-56479220010329-130339.html)

http://www.sptimes.com/News/041801/State/_It_s_food__drink_and.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/News/041801/State/_It_s_food__drink_and.shtml)

Silicone + laser skin resurfacing = flash fire:

http://archotol.ama-assn.org/issues/v127n4/abs/ooa00018.html (http://archotol.ama-assn.org/issues/v127n4/abs/ooa00018.html)

Risk overviews:

http://www.med.gazi.edu.tr/journal/1997_2_93_95.html (http://www.med.gazi.edu.tr/journal/1997_2_93_95.html)

http://www.avitro.com/silsafe.htm (http://www.avitro.com/silsafe.htm)

Reports of silicone deaths and injuries:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html)

See also:

Risks and Complications of Liquid Silicone:

http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm (http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm)

Silicone Injection Web Resource:

http://www.gotpummped.org (http://www.gotpummped.org/)

Cleopatra's needle: The history and legacy of silicone injections

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/197/mwebb.html (http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/197/mwebb.html)

Silicone Holocaust:

http://www.siliconeholocaust.org/ (http://www.siliconeholocaust.org/)

http://www.gotpummped.org (http://www.gotpummped.org/)

http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm (http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm)

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/07/03/114709.php (http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/07/03/114709.php)

[natina]

Here is the right way to get a nicer butt.

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/ (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/)

Brazilian Butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ&feature=related)


To Build a Better Butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioCrFD4hwM)

Now please read some of the articles below. Please don't get impatient, girl. This shit is no joke. Start w/ HRT, and save your money for the real surgeries. I can't tell you what to do, Kiely, but I really wish you wouldn't get pumped. There was a time when we didn't know any better, and some of us lucked out. If you want to test your luck, you should know what the risks are.

http://www.local10.com/news/564598/detail.html (http://www.local10.com/news/564598/detail.html)

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Cosmetic/wireStory?id=931208 (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Cosmetic/wireStory?id=931208)

http://www.genderadvocates.org/News/Silicone%20Deaths%20Houston%20Chronicle.htm (http://www.genderadvocates.org/News/Silicone%20Deaths%20Houston%20Chronicle.htm)

http://www.jenburke.com/2005/02/women-sentenced-for-death-of-another.html (http://www.jenburke.com/2005/02/women-sentenced-for-death-of-another.html)

http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html)

http://www.local10.com/news/2198497/detail.html (http://www.local10.com/news/2198497/detail.html)

http://www.local10.com/news/1579701/detail.html (http://www.local10.com/news/1579701/detail.html)

http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=727 (http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=727)

[natina]

Beauty on the Black Market

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcUeL-mCQ7c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcUeL-mCQ7c)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=2OJ6J1o6m04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=2OJ6J1o6m04)


fat grafting here for breast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpOPho-XdoY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpOPho-XdoY)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8MiKagmLBg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_cK-ddpnw)

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm (http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_africanamerican.htm)

microfat-injections pic.jpg: 330 Time(s) Viewed, 19.08 KB

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/microfat_injections_pic_163.jpg

[natina]

Following the news of the death of yet another girl- Kelly Tavares- from injected industrial silicone, I feel something needs to be done.

According to my friend praetor (in another thread), the Brazilian Government has tried to raise awareness and even imposed punishments for the "bombadeiras" (those who inject silicone in the girls' bodies), but with no success.

I think now it is up to those who deal directly with these girls to take action and launch a major campaign to raise awareness. I am talking about the photographers, the other models, the people who run the websites and produced the DVDs- everyone involved in the porn and escorting industry. If the people who have made money by photographing these girls or putting them online can do this, they can give something substantial back to the TS community, especially in Brazil, where this problem is common and deaths occur frequently.

What do you think? I'd especially like to hear the views of Seanchai and others involved in the industry.


See also:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=18576 (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=18576)
http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/silicone-death.html)
http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/ (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/) OR
http://theipowa.org/?q=book/export/html/2 (http://theipowa.org/?q=book/export/html/2)

AND

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=42079 (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=42079)

Kelly Tavares, RIP
http://trannys.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kelly20tavares20-2009.jpg

[natina]

This is a procedure the world famous Dr Matlock invented. He performs liposuction on the patient then injects the fat into the patient's buttock.


Brazilian Butt - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPfaQbIlSQ)


Dr David Matlock speaks about the Brazilian Butt Surgery - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyUL33sUd0c)


Plastic surgery miami- Brazilian Buttlift - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsmthdbQGXU)

Dr. David Matlock Dr 90210 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxl1tUnz9t0)




http://www.betterbuttocks.com/betterbuttocks_microfatphotos.htm


http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks20154a.jpghttp://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks15660A.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks28047.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian/buttocks20154.jpg

http://www.betterbuttocks.com/photos_caucasian.htm


everyone of us has fat but there is a procedure that uses small amounts of fat and stem cells
its mostly used for breast augmentation but it works for the buttocks and hips but the doctor might use an implant if you do not have sufficient volume of fat.



Fat transfer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_transfer)

Breast Augmentation with Fat



http://www.breastaugmentationwithfat.com/



http://www.lipostructure.com/breastaug.html

Breast Augmentation Using a Woman's Own Body Fat in New York

Women have always wanted to move fat from their waist or thighs to their breasts. Now it is possible! Sydney R. Coleman, MD has just presented his eleven-year experience in breast enlargement with a woman's own fat at the most prestigious plastic surgery meetings in Europe and the United States. The lectures introduced the use of his trademarked technique of fat grafting (http://www.lipostructure.com/fatgrafting.htm), Lipostructure, for breast augmentation and reshaping of the breast to create a long-lasting and natural result.
Plastic surgeons have transplanted fat to the breast since 1995 but the results have been variable depending on the technique used, the surgeon, and the individual patients. In 1995, Dr. Coleman began injecting fat into the breasts using special instruments he developed for fat grafting (http://www.lipostructure.com/fatgrafting-manhattan.htm). Dr Coleman is able to transfer body fat to the breasts to create a completely natural augmentation that has every indication of being permanent. He uses fat grafting to the breasts as an alternative to implants for augmentations, to ìfine tuneî breast reconstruction, and to disguise the edges or rippling of existing silicone gel and saline implants.
Fat grafting to the breast (http://www.lipostructure.com/fatgrafting-newyorkcity.htm) consists of two procedures performed on the same day: first harvesting the fat and then placement into the breasts. To begin, a substantial amount of fat is removed with a Coleman harvesting cannulaT connected to a small syringe. Then, the harvested fat is injected meticulously through four tiny 1/8 inch incisions using blunt Coleman infiltration cannulas.


Fat transfer (http://www.lipostructure.com/fattransfer.htm) to the breasts has many advantages over implants, but the major advantages are:

Fat is completely natural substance that comes from your own body
Harvesting of the fat can be used to enhance your shape
The breast can be sculpted and shaped
There are minimal incisions with this procedure, which reduces the possibility of scarring
Fat grafting to the breasts can be used to disguise breast implants that do not look natural
Breast augmentation (http://www.lipostructure.com/newyorkcity-breastaugmentation.html) by using the Lipostructure technique takes much longer than traditional breast augmentation. Working with his associate Dr. Alesia Saboeiro, Dr. Coleman typically takes four to six hours for this procedure. The fragile fatty tissue must be harvested slowly and gently. The fat is then placed into the breast not only so that it will create as aesthetic, natural appearance, but also so that the newly transplanted fat has a chance to survive.


Instead of silicone, can they just shoot some of your own fat in there?
Serious question.

[russtafa]

i always wonder why a guy would pump that shit into his arm .for me it was about strength and power

[natina]

gay white male silicone booty

http://xwrld.com/links/119



i always wonder why a guy would pump that shit into his arm .for me it was about strength and power

[natina]

Accused Florida Butt Injector Appears To Have Tried Her Own Product
The transgender Florida woman arrested yesterday for giving illegal buttocks injections--using a mixture of cement, super glue, mineral oil, and “Fix-a-Flat” sealant--appears to have tasted her own product.

Charged with practicing medicine without a license, Oneal Ron Morris, 30, posed for the above full-body booking photos, which seem to show her rear has been artificially enhanced (is there a better way to advertise your services?).

Morris was nabbed in connection with her treatment earlier this year of a client who was subsequently hospitalized due to the enhancement procedure (the injection site was sealed with super glue).

Morris is jailed in lieu of $7500 bond


Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=434994&stc=1&d=1321731475




http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=61895

Dangerous use of Silicone Injection - Pumping Party - Dr Sherman Leis - PINKessenceTV - Part 1 of 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMAs8rGMlg)

purifying silicone and doctors use of silicone
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=51083&page=11

Re: Accused Florida Butt Injector Appears To Have Tried Her Own Product

Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1051031#post1051031) I assume you had your work done by a licensed plastic surgeon, Monica.
It's crazy to go to a silicone pumping party in someone's apartment and expecting to get quality work done.
no i did not go to a doctor, yes i did go to someones house, i have had my ass for 10 years with no side effects, no lumps, no marks, no sagging. i went to someone who was trained by the woman in nyc who originated the silicone injection process (who by the way is almost 70 years old now). she is the only person in the entire world with the "recipe" of sterile medical grade silicone that hasn't had problems or fatalities and she only provides it to the people she has trained which can be counted on 1 hand. she is a legend, she even has a book on amazon.com

i researched the process and the people doing it, i even paid for some of my associates to have it done as sort of guinea pigs. i do not regret it, i love it, and i want more.



no i did not go to a doctor, yes i did go to someones house, i have had my ass for 10 years with no side effects, no lumps, no marks, no sagging. i went to someone who was trained by the woman in nyc who originated the silicone injection process (who by the way is almost 70 years old now). she is the only person in the entire world with the "recipe" of sterile medical grade silicone that hasn't had problems or fatalities and she only provides it to the people she has trained which can be counted on 1 hand. she is a legend, she even has a book on amazon.com

i researched the process and the people doing it, i even paid for some of my associates to have it done as sort of guinea pigs. i do not regret it, i love it, and i want more.

[natina]

THE high estrogen look AKA Steatopygia
Steatopygia is a high degree of fat accumulation in and around the buttocks.

The deposit of fat is not confined to the buttock regions, but extends to the outside and front of the thighs, forming a thick layer reaching sometimes to the knee.

This is a widespread genetic trait of the Khoisan (more commonly known as Bushmen).

It is specially a female feature, but it occurs in a lesser degree at men too (in most genetic variations of Homo sapiens, females tend to exhibit a greater propensity to fat tissue accumulation in the buttock region as compared with males).

This trait is also found amongst the Pygmies of Central Africa or from Andaman Islands (Southeast Asia).

Khoisan see this as a beauty sign: it begins in infancy and is fully developed by the time of the first pregnancy.






Steatopygia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia)

[natina]

Man Arrested for Boosting Butts With Cement, Fix-A-Flat

http://abcnewsradioonline.com/storage/news-images/H_111811_OnealRonMorris.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVER SION=1321662728621



Miami-Dade County Corrections and Rehabilitation/Miami Gardens Police Department(MIAMI GARDENS, Fla.) -- Florida police on Friday arrested a man suspected of administering dangerous and illegal butt-boosting shots -- injecting at least one woman with a cocktail of substances including cement, glue and tire sealant.

And, believe it or not, that man is the person pictured.

The man is 30-year-old Oneal Ron Morris.

Police could not release an official report on the incident, noting that the case is still under investigation. However, Sgt. William Bamford of the Miami Gardens, Fla., Police Department said that the procedure took place in May 2010, after the as-yet-unidentified victim met with Morris to discuss the procedure.

“They agreed on the price of $700 for the procedure, which was intended for cosmetic purposes,” Bamford said.

What the woman got for her money was a series of injections containing a bizarre concoction of cement, super glue, mineral oil and Fix-A-Flat tire inflator and sealant, police said.

Bamford said that the procedure was conducted not in a clinic, but in a residential setting in Miami Gardens, and that shortly after the substance was injected into the woman’s body she developed what Bamford termed “severe complications.”

“[A] short time later, she develops very serious pains, abdomen, throughout her body,” Bamford told ABC affiliate WPLG. “She knows something’s wrong.”

Bamford said the woman went to two different local hospitals, finally heading to Tampa General Hospital, where she received treatment, he said.

Bamford said the woman had an infection at the wound site with the drug-resistant bug MRSA, and she had also developed pneumonia. Even then, Bamford said, the woman was not forthcoming with doctors regarding the source of her symptoms.

But doctors at the hospital, suspecting the work of an unlicensed practitioner was to blame, contacted the Florida Department of Health.

Unfortunately, before health officials could learn more about the case, the woman had left the hospital.

It was not until March 2011 that investigators in South Florida were able to piece together enough of what happened to track down Morris and arrest him in North Lauderdale, Fla., a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, Fla. He was charged with practicing medicine without a license and causing bodily harm.

As odd as the idea of cut-rate, illicit, butt-boosting injections may sound, this case is far from the first that has made headlines -- and in some cases, the outcome has been deadly.

In February, 20-year-old British woman Claudia Aderotimi died following a cosmetic buttocks injection administered in a Philadelphia hotel room.

In January, Whalesca Castillo, an unlicensed practitioner in New York City, was arrested for running an illegal business out of her home injecting women with liquid silicone in the buttocks and breasts.

And in 2010, a Miami woman, Ana Josefa Sevilla, was charged with a similar crime after one of her clients ended up in the emergency room with complications.

“We’ve heard of people having caulk or industrial-grade silicone, neither of which is approved for use anywhere in the body, injected into their buttocks,” Dr. Felmont Eaves, a North Carolina-based plastic surgeon and president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, told ABC News at the time of Aderotimi’s death. “There are safe ways to augment the buttocks. Fat grafts usually work extremely well, but obviously you want someone who is board-certified to do that procedure.”




http://kgoam810.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=116&itemid=29757149



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=434994&stc=1&d=1321731475

[tskitana]

http://abcnewsradioonline.com/storage/news-images/H_111811_OnealRonMorris.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVER SION=1321662728621




HOLY SHIZZZNIT! :yayo:

[natina]

CNN has gotten in on the story now

(CNN) -- A south Florida resident was arrested this week after police allege he practiced medicine without a license, injecting a patient's buttocks with a "cocktail of chemicals" for cosmetic purposes.
The so-called cocktail consisted of cement, tire sealant, super glue and mineral oil, according to a police statement.
Police say the incision was later sealed with super glue.
"They agreed on a price of $700 ... to enhance her buttocks," Miami Gardens Police Sgt. Bill Bamford told CNN affiliate WPLG.
Soon after the May procedure, the patient "had serious complications" and suffered from "very serious pains in her abdomen and her body," likely stemming from the procedure, he added.
The patient was then hospitalized at a nearby medical center and listed in serious condition, the statement said. Police did not disclose the current condition of the patient.
The police statement identified the suspect only by his last name, Morris, though CNN affiliate WPLG disclosed his full name, citing police, as Oneal Ron Morris, 30.
"We might have additional victims in our community that could be afraid to come forward with their report fearing to be penalized," Capt. Ralph Suarez said. "We urge those victims to come forward if they have been the victim of this subject. Those victims have not done anything illegal and they should not be afraid to come forward."
WPLG reported Morris has been released on $15,500 bond.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/florida-injection-buttocks/index.html?iref=allsearch



yahoo news





http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/sZuZp4x1gXdXlNAfRm4kXQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzYwO2NyPTE7Y3c9NjQwO2R4PTA7ZH k9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD0xMDc7cT04NTt3PTE5MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/gma/us.abcnews.go.com/ht_oneal_ron_morris_ll_111118_wmain.jpg (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/man-arrested-boosting-butts-cement-fix-flat-photo-000728402.html)Boosting Butts With Cement, Fix-A-Flat, Leads to Arrest (ABC News)

(Miami-Dade County Corrections and Rehabilitation|Miami Gardens Police Department)
Florida police on Friday arrested a man suspected of administering dangerous and illegal butt-boosting shots – injecting at least one woman with a cocktail of substances including cement, glue and tire sealant.
And, believe it or not, that man is the person pictured above.
The man is 30-year-old Oneal Ron Morrie.
Police could not release an official report on the incident, noting that the case is still under investigation. However, Sgt. William Bamford of the Miami Gardens, Fla., Police Department said that the procedure took place in May 2010, after the as-yet-unidentified victim met with Morris to discuss the procedure.
“They agreed on the price of $700 for the procedure, which was intended for cosmetic purposes,” Bamford said.
What the woman got for her money was a series of injections containing a bizarre concoction of cement, super glue, mineral oil and Fix-A-Flat tire inflator and sealant, police said.
Bamford said that the procedure was conducted not in a clinic, but in a residential setting in Miami Gardens, and that shortly after the substance was injected into the woman’s body she developed what Bamford termed “severe complications.”
“[A] short time later, she develops very serious pains, abdomen, throughout her body,” Bamford told ABC affiliate WPLG. “She knows something’s wrong.”
Bamford said the woman went to two different local hospitals, finally heading to Tampa General Hospital, where she received treatment, he said.
Bamford said the woman had an infection at the wound site with the drug-resistant bug MRSA, and she had also developed pneumonia. Even then, Bamford said, the woman was not forthcoming with doctors regarding the source of her symptoms.
But doctors at the hospital, suspecting the work of an unlicensed practitioner was to blame, contacted the Florida Department of Health.
Unfortunately, before health officials could learn more about the case, the woman had left the hospital.
It was not until March 2011 that investigators in South Florida were able to piece together enough of what happened to track down Morris and arrest him in North Lauderdale, Fla., a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, Fla. He was charged with practicing medicine without a license and causing bodily harm.
As odd as the idea of cut-rate, illicit, butt-boosting injections may sound, this case is far from the first that has made headlines – and in some cases, the outcome has been deadly.
In February, 20-year-old British woman Claudia Aderotimi died following a cosmetic buttocks injection (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=148com1p0/EXP=1323144069/**http%3A//abcnews.go.com/Health/WomensHealth/death-butt-injection-prompts-warnings-plastic-surgeons/story%3Fid=12878427) administered in a Philadelphia hotel room.
In January, Whalesca Castillo, an unlicensed practitioner in New York City, was arrested for running an illegal business out of her home injecting women with liquid silicone in the buttocks and breasts.
And in 2010, a Miami woman, Ana Josefa Sevilla, was charged with a similar crime after one of her clients ended up in the emergency room with complications.
“We’ve heard of people having caulk or industrial-grade silicone, neither of which is approved for use anywhere in the body, injected into their buttocks,” Dr. Felmont Eaves, a North Carolina-based plastic surgeon and president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, told ABCNews.com at the time of Aderotimi’s death. “There are safe ways to augment the buttocks. Fat grafts usually work extremely well, but obviously you want someone who is board-certified to do that procedure.”
Also Read (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AjIER2mtUCbUCQy0_zxPZ26tSfQA;_ylu=X3oDMTFqaWd 2Ymg3BG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIEJvZHkEcG9zAzIEc2VjA01lZGlhQ XJ0aWNsZUJvZHlBc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTNkbnFpbDU1BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDOTgwNTYzMDQtNmVhNC0zNTc2LTk4MTAtZjlmMzY1M2 JhODkxBHBzdGNhdAN1c3xjcmltZXMgYW5kIHRyaWFscwRwdANz dG9yeXBhZ2UEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=0/SIG=13paofso8/EXP=1323144069/**http%3A//abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/11/18/man-arrested-for-boosting-butts-with-cement-fix-a-flat/)


http://news.yahoo.com/man-arrested-boosting-butts-cement-fix-flat-000728094.html


Fake Doctor Injected Cement and Fix-A-Flat Into Patient's Butt

"Dr." Oneal Morris has a very literal solution for patients looking to add a little junk to their trunks. She injected a woman looking to add a little more oomph to her caboose with a solution made of cement, superglue, mineral oil, and Fix-A-Flat tire mender. Thirty-year-old Morris was arrested today by Miami Gardens police.

A patient asked Morris, a transgendered woman who is still legally identified as a man, to give her butt implants, according to NBC Miami (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Fake-Doctor-Busted-For-Bad-Butt-Injections-134129628.html). So Morris cut her open and injected the crazy mixture. She then closed the patient's wound with superglue. (These kinds of back-alley plastic surgery procedures are not terribly uncommon in South Florida (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2009-03-05/news/back-alley-plastic-surgery-sent-donnie-hendrix-to-jail/).)

As a result of the procedure, the woman ended up in the hospital, treated for a serious condition by actual doctors.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/onealmorrbig.jpg​Morris has now been arrested on charges of practicing medicine without a license and from her arrest pictures appears to sport some sort of junk in her own rear end as well.

Police believe that other victims might exist but are too afraid to come forward. Anyone with information is asked to call the Miami Gardens Police Department at 305-474-1420.


This type of back-alley ass enhancement -- with fatal effects -- isn't novel to South Florida.


Two years ago, we published a feature story about the underground silicone-injection scene (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2009-03-05/news/back-alley-plastic-surgery-sent-donnie-hendrix-to-jail/) in Miami and the fatalities that have resulted from bad injections.



http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/11/fake_doctor_injected_cement_an.php

[natina]

VIDEO of morris before and after
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45361508/ns/local_news-miami_fl/t/butt-injection-fix-flat-leads-arrest/


Butt injection with 'Fix a Flat' leads to arrest
Transgender woman charged with posing as doctor in Miami area
A Miami Gardens transgender woman is facing charges of practicing medicine without a license after police say she injected a patient's rear with everything but the kitchen sink in an illegal cosmetic surgery procedure.
Oneal Ron Morris, 30, was arrested Friday after an investigation by Miami Gardens Police and the Florida Department of Health.
According to police, the victim saw Morris in May and was injected in her buttocks with a substance consisting of cement, "Fix a Flat," mineral oil and super glue.
See photos, read the original story at NBCMiami.com (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Fake-Doctor-Busted-For-Bad-Butt-Injections-134129628.html)
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111118-morris-hmed-340p.grid-4x2.jpg
Miami Gardens Police via NBC MiamiOneal Morris, accused of practicing medicine without a license.

The amateur incision was then sealed with super glue, police said. The victim was later hospitalized with a serious medical condition as a result of the injections.
Morris, who police say is a man but appears to look like a woman and sports an apparently enhanced rear herself in arrest photos, was being held on $7,500 bond. it was unknown whether she has an attorney.
Police believe there may be other victims of Morris who may be afraid to come forward. They said the victims haven't done anything illegal and shouldn't be afraid to come forward.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45361508/ns/local_news-miami_fl/t/butt-injection-fix-flat-leads-arrest/



THE SMOKING GUN


Accused Florida Butt Injector Appears To Have Tried Her Own Product


The transgender Florida woman arrested yesterday for giving illegal buttocks injections--using a mixture of cement, super glue, mineral oil, and “Fix-a-Flat” sealant--appears to have tasted her own product.
Charged with practicing medicine without a license, Oneal Ron Morris, 30, posed for the above full-body booking photos (click each to enlarge), which seem to show her rear has been artificially enhanced (is there a better way to advertise your services?).
Morris was nabbed in connection with her treatment earlier this year of a client who was subsequently hospitalized due to the enhancement procedure (the injection site was sealed with super glue).
Morris is jailed in lieu of $7500 bond.


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/florida/dat-ass-086754

[Silcc69]

The bitch doesn't look bad at all but wtf was she thinking and who the fuck in there right mind would go to this chic to get butt implants.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/onealmorrbig.jpg

[beatmaker]

Those before and after pics are BANANAS! That is a whole other person. Friggin scary! I've seen some TS's feminize and soften their appearance with surgery and body injection or implants. However, this tranny's own mama wouldn't recognize her. Went from the complexion of Wesley Snipes to Chris Brown thru bleaching. Weaves and EXTENSIVE facial work. There is ZERO facial similarity at this point.Even Michael Jackson and Lil Kim still looked like themselves, just cartoon like versions. Ironically, the facial transformation is more stark, than that 20 gallon silicone booty and hip caboose she's draggin.

She better pray, that they have segregation for gay/TS inmates or she'll have to go into PC for her entire sentence. If not, her ass will get rammed until to no end, in a male prison. Will have to become some gang leaders' bottom bytch to avoid massive, daily rapes with that HUGE azz. I know Rikers Island in NYC has a special wing for gay men and transgendered women, from that HBO special from years ago.

WOW, the wonders of modern surgery!!!

[natina]

THIS SILICONE PUMPER WAS ARRESTED A LONG TIME AGO


http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2011570efdf87970c-pi



THIS guy just got his lips done

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=351345&stc=1&d=1288362381



this guy has POPEYE ARMS pumped up with SYNTHOL



http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg

[TS Melissa]

Man Arrested for Boosting Butts With Cement, Fix-A-Flat

http://abcnewsradioonline.com/storage/news-images/H_111811_OnealRonMorris.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVER SION=1321662728621



Miami-Dade County Corrections and Rehabilitation/Miami Gardens Police Department(MIAMI GARDENS, Fla.) -- Florida police on Friday arrested a man suspected of administering dangerous and illegal butt-boosting shots -- injecting at least one woman with a cocktail of substances including cement, glue and tire sealant.

And, believe it or not, that man is the person pictured.

The man is 30-year-old Oneal Ron Morris.

Police could not release an official report on the incident, noting that the case is still under investigation. However, Sgt. William Bamford of the Miami Gardens, Fla., Police Department said that the procedure took place in May 2010, after the as-yet-unidentified victim met with Morris to discuss the procedure.

“They agreed on the price of $700 for the procedure, which was intended for cosmetic purposes,” Bamford said.

What the woman got for her money was a series of injections containing a bizarre concoction of cement, super glue, mineral oil and Fix-A-Flat tire inflator and sealant, police said.

Bamford said that the procedure was conducted not in a clinic, but in a residential setting in Miami Gardens, and that shortly after the substance was injected into the woman’s body she developed what Bamford termed “severe complications.”

“[A] short time later, she develops very serious pains, abdomen, throughout her body,” Bamford told ABC affiliate WPLG. “She knows something’s wrong.”

Bamford said the woman went to two different local hospitals, finally heading to Tampa General Hospital, where she received treatment, he said.

Bamford said the woman had an infection at the wound site with the drug-resistant bug MRSA, and she had also developed pneumonia. Even then, Bamford said, the woman was not forthcoming with doctors regarding the source of her symptoms.

But doctors at the hospital, suspecting the work of an unlicensed practitioner was to blame, contacted the Florida Department of Health.

Unfortunately, before health officials could learn more about the case, the woman had left the hospital.

It was not until March 2011 that investigators in South Florida were able to piece together enough of what happened to track down Morris and arrest him in North Lauderdale, Fla., a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, Fla. He was charged with practicing medicine without a license and causing bodily harm.

As odd as the idea of cut-rate, illicit, butt-boosting injections may sound, this case is far from the first that has made headlines -- and in some cases, the outcome has been deadly.

In February, 20-year-old British woman Claudia Aderotimi died following a cosmetic buttocks injection administered in a Philadelphia hotel room.

In January, Whalesca Castillo, an unlicensed practitioner in New York City, was arrested for running an illegal business out of her home injecting women with liquid silicone in the buttocks and breasts.

And in 2010, a Miami woman, Ana Josefa Sevilla, was charged with a similar crime after one of her clients ended up in the emergency room with complications.

“We’ve heard of people having caulk or industrial-grade silicone, neither of which is approved for use anywhere in the body, injected into their buttocks,” Dr. Felmont Eaves, a North Carolina-based plastic surgeon and president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, told ABC News at the time of Aderotimi’s death. “There are safe ways to augment the buttocks. Fat grafts usually work extremely well, but obviously you want someone who is board-certified to do that procedure.”




http://kgoam810.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=116&itemid=29757149



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=434994&stc=1&d=1321731475


Oh Dear those hips....................

[Willie Escalade]

Video I shot at my buddy's birthday party of some of our friends' reactions...

Reaction - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGWvghoZpM)

[natina]

ask them about Steatopygia


Steatopygia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia)


Steatopygia is a high degree of fat accumulation in and around the buttocks. The deposit of fat is not confined to the gluteal regions, but extends to the outside and front of the thighs, forming a thick layer reaching sometimes to the knee.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=435133&stc=1&d=1321767842



Video I shot at my buddy's birthday party of some of our friends' reactions...

Reaction - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGWvghoZpM)

[natina]

silicone penis injections

http://cdn.videosift.com/static/Man-spends-6-years-injecting-silicone-into-his-PENIS/index.html?1325479052

[natina]

old rio de janeiro pumping video

CASA DE ANGELICA RAVAXI (RIO DE JANEIRO) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcUeL-mCQ7c&feature=related)

SEE POST # 14
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=1184&page=2

http://www.body1.com/News/index.cfm/2/9965/61 (http://www.body1.com/News/index.cfm/2/9965/61)


Death Shows Danger of Silicone Injections
April 01, 2004

ALBANY, Ga. (AP) - The death of a transgendered person who received injections of industrial-grade silicone illustrates the dangers of "pumping," a thriving underground practice in motel rooms or apartments among men living as women.

Authorities say 23-year-old Andre D. Jeter suffered convulsions and fell unconscious Dec. 10 after receiving injections in her hips and buttocks during a "pumping party" here. She died a month later.

Stephen Oneal Thomas, 31, was charged last week with murder and other offenses for allegedly administering the injections. Thomas' lawyer refused on Tuesday to comment.

One of Thomas' roommates, Nikkia Scott, and other drag queens have been getting illegal, back-room injections of silicone to give themselves some of the things nature denied them when they were born male - breasts, wider hips, more prominent cheekbones.

They know the risks are extreme, and still they do it.

"Anything you put in your body that don't belong there will hurt you in the long run," Scott said of her $6,000 worth of injections. "But believe me, it has been worth it. It has been worth it."

Scott and three others were also arrested in the case and charged with conspiracy and practicing medicine without a license. They were accused, among other things, of helping Thomas by recruiting patients at drag-queen beauty pageants.

The victim was a man living as a woman, as are all four defendants.

While medical-grade silicone is implanted under the skin in sealed sacs to keep it from leaking, pumping involves injecting silicone straight into the body.

And the silicone used is the stuff sold in hardware stores as a sealant. It is not sterile and can cause infections, particularly in the lungs.

The silicone is often mixed with paraffin, oil, even peanut butter, said Dallas Denny of the transgender support group Gender Education & Advocacy. In Jeter's case, it was probably mixed with baby oil, based on how it smelled to others who received the injections, said James Paulk, an investigator for the district attorney.

There was so much silicone in Jeter's body that when incisions were made during the autopsy, a clear, brownish liquid flowed out, Paulk said.

The scope of the phenomenon is unclear. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration and transgender groups said they do not keep track of the problem. But Paulk said a "slew" of people have been injured, including three or four in Montgomery, Ala., six or seven in Columbus, Ga., and a few in Jacksonville, Fla.

"The transgender society is a very tight-knit society. They don't like to give each other up because if you do, you get barred from the pageants," Paulk said. "If they're not hurting and they're not experiencing medical problems, they aren't calling me."

A day after his arrest, a stubble-faced Scott, wearing large hoop earrings, was back to gluing weaves to heads at a beauty parlor in Albany, a town 150 miles south of Atlanta. His roommate Jazz, also arrested in the case, was at home, wearing pajamas and pink flowered flip-flops.

Jazz and Scott compete in drag shows during "black society" nights at a bar called Queens in Albany. They dress in gowns and rhinestones and perform songs for tips.

They both strongly denied any involvement in giving silicone injections and said they did not know their roommate Thomas was "pumping."

Scott, identified as Freddie Clyde in court documents, said her silicone injections have not caused any serious health problems. But Jazz, whose legal name is Mark Edwards, said she has had three procedures - face, bust and lower body - that cost her about $3,300, and has suffered severe side effects.

Last year, she said, she started coughing heavily and discovered that the silicone had gotten into her lungs, giving her chemical pneumonia. She spent two months in the hospital and several more months on bed rest, and her weight dropped from 270 to 150.

She also lifted up her T-shirt to show the scar under one of her breasts where doctors went in to remove a hardened clump of silicone.

As for Jeter, Jazz said, she had taken the injections too far. Jeter had complained that her head itched and that her hair had stopped growing, according to Jazz. "Jeter was making herself look like a monster," Jazz said.

Despite her own health problems, Jazz said she has nothing against the woman who gave her the injections.

"I don't want to prosecute her, I want to thank her," she said. "I'm the one who wanted the work. She did nothing wrong but what I wanted."

---=

Associated Press correspondent Elliott Minor in Albany, Ga., contributed to this report.

---=

On the Net:

Gender Education & Advocacy: http://www.gender.org (http://www.gender.org/)

La Gender: www.geocities.com/lagenderinc (http://www.geocities.com/lagenderinc)

http://www.body1.com/News/index.cfm/2/9965/61 (http://www.body1.com/News/index.cfm/2/9965/61)

[natina]

fight breaks out over butt injections on live tv

http://specials.msn.com/a-list/entertainment/bad-butt-injection-brawl-psp


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Oneal+Ron+Morris+victim&view=detail&id=B0D60E218405B7D9C3AAD206BB31319AA4B50DCA&first=0&FORM=msnpop


http://www.bing.com/search?q=%2bButt+surgery+suspect+files+restraining +order&FORM=msnpop

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Oneal+Ron+Morris+&view=detail&id=D4F649C37F07D46919A84AB92A028843CF616B5B&first=0&FORM=msnpop

[natina]

Silicone Injections: The Ugly Truth - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEeCNcw7xbU)

[natina]

‘Bad-butt-injection’ suspect on TV leads to brawl
http://specials.msn.com/a-list/entertainment/bad-butt-injection-brawl-psp

[tskitana]

silicone penis injections

http://cdn.videosift.com/static/Man-spends-6-years-injecting-silicone-into-his-PENIS/index.html?1325479052



OMMMMMG ! that is something else !!

[liisawinklergirl]

silicon pumping also becomes an addiction. I know someone here in Cebu who has become so addicted to it her face has become a total caricature as a result of too much silicon oil in her face...

[natina]

Kimberly Smedley of Atlanta, Ga., pleads guilty to giving illegal silicone buttocks injections



BALTIMORE, Md. (WUSA) - A woman pleaded guilty Wednesday to administering commercial silicone buttocks injections for nearly seven years. Kimberly D. Smedley, 45, of Atlanta, Ga., pleaded guilty to conspiring to introduce and deliver into interstate commerce an adulterated and misbranded device.
The guilty plea was announced by United States Attorney for the District of Maryland Rod J. Rosenstein and Special Agent in Charge Antoinette V. Henry of the U.S. Food & Drug Administration, Office of Criminal Investigations.


"Kimberly Smedley endangered her customers' lives by injecting them with commercial silicone, causing at least one victim to suffer lung damage from a substance not approved by the Food and Drug Administration," said U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein. "No one should undergo medical procedures in a hotel room."
According to her plea agreement, from around 2003 to October 2011, Smedley administered silicone injections into the buttocks of customers for enlargement purposes. Smedley administered these injections in hotel rooms in Baltimore, Washington D.C., Detroit, New York City, Philadelphia and elsewhere, using silicone stored in an unlabeled water jug, medical grade syringes and super glue with cotton balls to cover the point of injection in an effort to prevent the silicone from leaking out.
She was paid between $500 and $1,600 in cash for each session where she typically injected silicone in nine places on each side of the buttocks. Smedley received over $200,000 in cash for administering illegal silicone injections.
Smedley is not a licensed medical practitioner and the silicone is not approved by FDA for this purpose. Smedley represented to customers that she used medical grade silicone. However, the silicone Smedley used, 100 centistoke dimethyl siloxane fluid, is intended to be used for metal or plastic lubrication, as an additive for paint and coatings, and as furniture or automotive polishes. From one manufacturer alone, Smedley ordered over 4,920 pounds of the silicone since 2003 at a cost of over $20,000.
From 2009 to 2011, Smedley paid an individual to provide security in the hotel rooms where the injections were taking place.
On four occasions from October 2010 to March 30, 2011, an exotic dancer residing in Maryland paid Smedley to administer the injections. At the last treatment, the customer requested injections in her hips and Smedley complied. Two days later, suffering from shortness of breath, the customer went to Johns Hopkins Hospital where fluid was detected in her lungs and she was treated for pneumonia. A day and a half later, the customer felt worse and went to Good Samaritan Hospital in Baltimore.
A CAT scan revealed silicone in the customer's lungs, and she was diagnosed as having poisoning and toxic effects of silicone, with a major risk of death. She remained at the hospital for four days and still has silicone in her lungs.
Smedley faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. U.S. District Judge Catherine C. Blake has scheduled sentencing for July 12, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=199203

: Woman admits giving bad butt injections
An Atlanta woman has pleaded guilty after she was accused of traveling to cities on the East Coast and illegally injecting women's buttocks (what did she inject them with? (http://www.bing.com/search?q=commercial+grade+silicone&FORM=msnpop)). Kimberly Smedley apparently administered the injections in hotel rooms (find out how much she charged (http://www.bing.com/search?q=smedley+500+and+1600&form=msnpop)). She faces a maximum of five years in jail (find out what one of her victims suffered (http://www.bing.com/search?q=smedley+victim+lung+damage&FORM=msnpop)).



http://specials.msn.com/a-list/news/smedley-guilty-butt-injections-psp

[natina]

Kimberly Smedley Pleads Guilty To Illegal Silicone Butt Injection Charges

Video (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/video), Butt Injections (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/butt-injections), Illegal Butt Injections (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/illegal-butt-injections), Silicone Injections (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/silicone-injections), Kim Smedley (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/kim-smedley), Kim Smedley Pleads Guilty (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/kim-smedley-pleads-guilty), Kimberly Smedley (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/kimberly-smedley), Kimberly Smedley Butt Injections (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/kimberly-smedley-butt-injections), Crime News (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/crime)



Kimberly Smedley pleaded guilty to illegally injecting women's butts with silicone.



She's going to jail for literally putting junk in the trunk.
Georgia native Kimberly Smedley -- accused of traveling across the East Coast injecting women's buttocks with toxic silicone to enlarge them -- pleaded guilty today to a felony conspiracy charge stemming from the illegal operation, according to the Smoking Gun. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/silicone-buttocks-injector-guilty-872315)
Smedley, 45, reportedly had clients in Baltimore, D.C., Detroit, Philadelphia and New York City who would pay a mere $1,600 for the injections. Smedley admitted to a New York Post reporter (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_yEDVLvhcMIubs5qjVS9r7K) in 2008 that she was "not a nurse," yet her clients would pay for the process that included pumping their butts full of a silicone used for "metal or plastic lubrication, as an additive for paint and coatings, and furniture or automotive polishes," court documents show. (http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/kimberlysmedley-guiltyplea.jpg)
When an undercover Post reporter probed Smedley, she claimed that she used "medical-grade" silicone, even though real plastic surgeons use fat transfers or butt implants. She would inject each cheek up to 10 times with the stuff, then plug any holes with cotton balls and super glue.
Illegal silicone treatments have killed people whose injections hit a vein and caused blood clots, the paper reported.
Clients paid Smedley a total of $200,000 between 2003 and 2011, prosecutors charged. A real butt implant procedure can cost up to $10,000, and doctors told the Post that illegal injections are "dirt cheap" in comparison.
Another person charged in the case is ex-D.C. cop Martin Freeman, Kimberly Smedley Complaint (http://www.scribd.com/doc/84178987/Kimberly-Smedley-Complaint) while she injected her clients from hotel rooms.
Smedley faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine when she's sentenced on July 12, according to the Washington Examiner. (http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/2012/03/woman-pleads-guilty-butt-implants-case/415596)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/kimberly-smedley-illegal-butt-injection-guilty_n_1385872.html

[natina]

<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="video" width="569" height="466.75" data="http://www.myfoxdc.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=11212"><param value="http://www.myfoxdc.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=11212" name="movie"/><param value="&skin=MP1ExternalAll-MFL.swf&embed=true&adSizeArray=300x240&adSrc=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fadx%2F tsg%2Ewttg%2Fnews%2Fmetro%2Fdetail%3Bdcmt%3Dtext%2 Fxml%3Bpos%3D%3Btile%3D2%3Bfname%3Dwoman%2Darreste d%2Din%2Ddc%2Dfor%2Dadministering%2Dllegal%2Dsilic one%2Dbutt%2Dand%2Dhip%2Dinjections%3Bloc%3Dembed% 3Bsz%3D320x240%3Bord%3D841727743856608900%3Frand%3 D0%2E9772523608221832&flv=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emyfoxdc%2Ecom%2Ffeeds%2Fout boundFeed%3FobfType%3DVIDEO%5FPLAYER%5FSMIL%5FFEED %26componentId%3D136327133&img=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2%2Emyfoxdc%2Ecom%2F%2Fphoto %2F2011%2F11%2F17%2FKimberlySmedley%5F201111172349 43%5F640%5F480%2EJPG&story=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emyfoxdc%2Ecom%2Fdpp%2Fnew s%2Flocal%2Fwoman%2Darrested%2Din%2Ddc%2Dfor%2Dadm inistering%2Dllegal%2Dsilicone%2Dbutt%2Dand%2Dhip% 2Dinjections&category=news&title=ButtImplantBustUmeh%2Emov&oacct=foximfoximwttg,foximglobal&ovns=foxinteractivemedia&headline=Woman%20Arrested%20in%20DC%20for%20Admini stering%20Illegal%20Silicone%20Butt%20and%20Hip%20 Injections" name="FlashVars"/><param value="all" name="allowNetworking"/><param value="always" name="allowScriptAccess"/></object><p style="width:569px"><a href="http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/woman-arrested-in-dc-for-administering-llegal-silicone-butt-and-hip-injections">Woman Arrested in DC for Administering Illegal Silicone Butt and Hip Injections: MyFoxDC.com</a></p>

[natina]

http://cerebraldiva.blogspot.com/2011/02/british-woman-who-dies-from-botched.html

[natina]

Saline_Breast_ExpansionClip

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xawoo5_saline-breast-expansionclip_sexy

[jimbo1974]

*backs the fuck out of this thread*

[natina]

Woman suffers after botched buttocks injections


Five years of pain: Infections force doctors to amputate her limbs


April Brown was once a cosmetologist, fashion designer, and working mother of two daughters.
She's now a multiple amputee. She says hospitalizations after unlicensed cosmetic procedures led to life-threatening infectionshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_11pxw.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47400921/ns/health/#)

Doctors removed her limbs last year to save her life.
"I got the butt implants five years ago," said Brown. "For five years, I lived in pain. Excruciating pain."
April Brown won't identify the unlicensed practitioner who injected her with silicone. She will only say it was somewhere near Western and Manchester. Brown told NBCLosAngeles.com that her own lack of self-esteem issues are mostly to blame.
"They call it butt injections," she says. "These things are done at pumping parties. They call it medical grade silicone, but a lot of it is industrial grade silicone."

Brown's case recalls similar incidents in Florida. (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/26/10245917-latest-butt-injection-drama-attack-with-fake-syringe-on-tv?lite)
But Brown feels she's a survivor, empowered by the words of loved ones who feared she would die.
"We don't validate each other," she says. "We really don't know how our friends feel about us, unless we have very expressive friends."
Brown envisions a new career as a motivational speaker. Meanwhile, loving daughters Courtney and Dayne are grateful she'll be home for Mother's Day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47400921/ns/health/

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/health/Woman-Suffers-Botched-Buttocks-Enhancement-151223535.html





<embed width="576" height="324" src="http://media.nbclosangeles.com/designvideo/embeddedPlayer.swf" flashvars="v=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbclosangeles.com%2Fi%2Fembed_n ew%2F%3Fcid%3D151225375%26path=//news/health" allowFullScreen="true" AllowScriptAccess="always" />

[buckjohnson]

*backs the fuck out of this thread*


agree

[natina]

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

back the fuck out of this thread?


*backs the fuck out of this thread*

[natina]

Fat transfer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_transfer)

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=814646&postcount=123

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=814646

[natina]

Women Get Butt Injections w/ Caulk?! ( Video)
Women Get Butt Injections w/ Caulk?! ( Video) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teaRigo6lA)


http://wolfmp3.com/video/5teaRigo6lA/women-get-butt-injections-w-caulk--video/


http://wn.com/!!WOMAN_DIES_AFTER_SILICONE_INJECTION!!

[natina]

'Butt-injection' addict exposes world of black-market rump enhancements
Mother of two Vanity Wonder has written a book (find it (http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&p1=%5bCommerceService%20scenario%3d%22f%22%20r%3d% 22%2cmaxprice%7c15%22%5d&qs=n%2cn&aq=Vanity%20Wonder%3a%20Shot%20Girls&aid=&ct=&pq=Vanity%20Wonder%3a%20Shot%20Girls&sp=&rt=Completions&tk=&spv=&sl=E&sc=&st=&ast=&fltr=1&FORM=msnpop)) that delves into the world of illegal cosmetic procedures, including buttocks injections that have given her own rear end massive proportions (has anyone died from such injections? (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Woman+Dies+After+Butt+Injection&gform=msnpop)). Wonder says she has had injections of this substance (http://www.bing.com/search?q=soybean+oil&form=msnpop), but she now insists on medical-grade silicone (http://www.bing.com/search?q=medical-grade+silicone&form=msnpop) -- something many other clients don't do, she says (see photos of an alleged "fake butt-injection doctor" (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Oneal+Ron+Morris&FORM=msnpop)).




http://specials.msn.com/a-list/health/vanity-wonder-butt-injection-popular-pages


A "SHELF BOOTY","SHELF BUTT"

http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/B4/13EBA316BB17D3CAC4BDB9CD7836B.jpg


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/thumb/get?bid=Y7mMb0zsYeTKqw&bn=CC&fbid=7wIR63%2bClmj%2b0A&fbn=CC (http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/p/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPEG)
$10.17 - $12.35 (http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/where-to-buy/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPWB) (2 stores)
CompareCompare (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0))Adding...Added to Shopping List You can only add up to 10 items. Please remove some items from your list to continue adding new ones.




Shot Girls is the real life, raw accounting of Vanity Wonder's 5 year journey with black market butt injections. Commonly called "shots," "pumping" or "work," illegal butt injections are quickly on the rise and not just for strippers or women in the entertainment industry. Known for her jaw dropping 34-23-45 curves, Vanity tells no lies about how she obtained them. In this book, Vanity takes you on a gripping ride through her 16+ injection procedures, drug abuse, and the lessons she learned along the way. Without a doubt, this book will answer any questions you may have about this procedure and satisfy your curiosity on the subject.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/p/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPEG

[natina]

video interview of VANITY WONDERS

http://hoodtube.com/10629/vanity-wonder-exposes-the-secret-world-of-butt-injections/




'Butt-injection' addict exposes world of black-market rump enhancements
Mother of two Vanity Wonder has written a book (find it (http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&p1=%5bCommerceService%20scenario%3d%22f%22%20r%3d% 22%2cmaxprice%7c15%22%5d&qs=n%2cn&aq=Vanity%20Wonder%3a%20Shot%20Girls&aid=&ct=&pq=Vanity%20Wonder%3a%20Shot%20Girls&sp=&rt=Completions&tk=&spv=&sl=E&sc=&st=&ast=&fltr=1&FORM=msnpop)) that delves into the world of illegal cosmetic procedures, including buttocks injections that have given her own rear end massive proportions (has anyone died from such injections? (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Woman+Dies+After+Butt+Injection&gform=msnpop)). Wonder says she has had injections of this substance (http://www.bing.com/search?q=soybean+oil&form=msnpop), but she now insists on medical-grade silicone (http://www.bing.com/search?q=medical-grade+silicone&form=msnpop) -- something many other clients don't do, she says (see photos of an alleged "fake butt-injection doctor" (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Oneal+Ron+Morris&FORM=msnpop)).




http://specials.msn.com/a-list/health/vanity-wonder-butt-injection-popular-pages


A "SHELF BOOTY","SHELF BUTT"

http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/B4/13EBA316BB17D3CAC4BDB9CD7836B.jpg


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/thumb/get?bid=Y7mMb0zsYeTKqw&bn=CC&fbid=7wIR63%2bClmj%2b0A&fbn=CC (http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/p/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPEG)
$10.17 - $12.35 (http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/where-to-buy/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPWB) (2 stores)
CompareCompare (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0))Adding...Added to Shopping List You can only add up to 10 items. Please remove some items from your list to continue adding new ones.




Shot Girls is the real life, raw accounting of Vanity Wonder's 5 year journey with black market butt injections. Commonly called "shots," "pumping" or "work," illegal butt injections are quickly on the rise and not just for strippers or women in the entertainment industry. Known for her jaw dropping 34-23-45 curves, Vanity tells no lies about how she obtained them. In this book, Vanity takes you on a gripping ride through her 16+ injection procedures, drug abuse, and the lessons she learned along the way. Without a doubt, this book will answer any questions you may have about this procedure and satisfy your curiosity on the subject.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/shot-girls/p/D0D7B37EBA353CAF0002?q=Vanity+Wonder%3a+Shot+Girls&lpf=0&lpmaxPrice=15&lppc=16&lpq=Vanity%2bWonder%2bShot%2bGirls&FORM=CMSPEG

[GrimFusion]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... ?... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

That about sums it up. Once the side-show draw wears off, pictures of clowns get old real quick.

[natina]

shelf booty and vanity wonders with a 34-23-45 figure


Bail drops for 'Black Madam', Philly buttocks injections suspect
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A Philadelphia woman who calls herself the “Black Madam” and is accused of giving illegal buttocks-enhancement injections has had her bail slashed.
Padge Windslowe’s bail was lowered from $10 million to $750,000 at a court hearing Friday. Defense lawyer Chris Mannix says it’s not clear if the 42-year-old Windslowe can post the lower amount.
She’s charged with aggravated assault and deceptive practices.
Police say an exotic dancer suffered serious lung problems following a buttocks enhancement injection last month.
Meanwhile, police say Windslowe remains “a person in interest” in the death of a 20-year-old London woman. She died after receiving injections at a Philadelphia airport hotel last year.
Authorities are waiting on test results from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration before issuing a cause of death.

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/16/bail-drops-for-black-madam-philly-buttocks-injections-suspect/



video interview of VANITY WONDERS

http://hoodtube.com/10629/vanity-wonder-exposes-the-secret-world-of-butt-injections/

[natina]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/06/20/drew-black-market-butt-injections.hln

[natina]

RAJEE PRESENTS - My Doctor Phil Interview December 2011.mov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=3FpoCxv-B3c&NR=1


Dr. John Martin on Anderson Cooper Show - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcFlVucoATU)

[luvsbigass]

what about those who pump it into their dick.

[natina]

Suspect in Florida butt-enhancement death now charged with manslaughter

MIAMI -- A South Florida woman previously charged with injecting people with Fix-a-Flat in a black market buttock-enhancing business was arrested Thursday on a charge of manslaughter, authorities said.
The Broward Sheriff's Office said Oneal Morris, 32, was arrested at her mother's house in Coconut Creek on one count of manslaughter.
Shatarka Nuby, 32, died in March in Tallahassee from what an assistant medical examiner called "massive systemic silicone migration" as a result of the cosmetic silicone injections, authorities said.
"Shatarka Nuby would pay a transvestite she knew as Dutchess up to hundreds of dollars to come to her house and inject her buttocks, hips, thighs and breasts with an unknown substance. Then Dutchess, sometimes wearing medical scrubs and a stethoscope, would seal the injection sites with super glue and cotton balls," the Broward Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
Morris has been arrested multiple times on allegations of performing cosmetic procedures with no license in both Miami-Dade and Broward counties.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/26/12974774-suspect-in-florida-butt-enhancement-death-now-charged-with-manslaughter?lite


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111118-morris-hmed-340p.photoblog600.jpg

[natina]

Singer charged with murder in botched cosmetic procedure

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120302024823-black-madam-padge-windslowe-composite-story-top.jpg
Padge Victoria Windslowe, known as "Black Madam," has been charged with murder in the 2011 death of a British woman.


Philadelphia (CNN) -- A singer known as "Black Madam" has been charged with murder in the death of a British woman who was injected with silicone at a Philadelphia hotel room last year, the city's district attorney Tuesday.
Padge Victoria Windslowe, 42, is already in police custody on separate charges stemming from another alleged illegal cosmetic procedure, also involving a silicone injection.
The British woman -- Claudia Aderotimi, 20 -- died in February 2011 from a pulmonary embolism because of complications from a silicone injection to her buttocks, according to the district attorney's office. The cause of her death had previously remained uncertain.
Aderotimi came to the United States from England after seeing an online advertisement for body enhancements by Windslowe, according to the district attorney's office. Police said Aderotimi paid $1,800 for buttocks enhancements that were performed in a hotel room, then experienced chest pains shortly after the silicone injection and died a short time later.

Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams announced Tuesday that Windslowe has been charged with third-degree murder in Aderotimi's death, as well as conspiracy, reckless endangerment, possessing an instrument of crime and unauthorized practice of medicine.
"Padge Windslowe's arrogance and blatant disregard for human life is shocking," Williams said in a statement. "Her conduct cost one young woman her life and placed countless others in danger. The defendant put her own greed above the public's health and safety, and instead of being remorseful, she bragged about prospective clients."
A phone call to Windslowe's attorney, Christopher Mannix, for comment was not immediately returned.
Windslowe was arrested in March (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/02/justice/illegal-cosmetic-procedure-arrest/index.html)before she was about to host a "pumping party," at which people pay for illegal silicone injections, police said. She was being held on $750,000 bail on charges of aggravated assault and deceptive business practices after an illegal injection of silicone was pumped into the buttocks of a 23-year-old woman in February, police said.
The woman ended up in intensive care with possible silicone in her lung after paying $1,000 for the procedure, police said.
Underground cosmetic procedures have become a growing concern for health regulators. Investigators have had a difficult time tracking these procedures because they are performed by unlicensed providers.
What really killed the beauty queen? (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/12/10/plastic.surgery.problems/index.html)
"It's hard to tell how many people are utilizing that [type] of service," Tina Tan, a New Jersey state epidemiologist, said.
Tan has heard reports of caulk and other products being used in the injections, as well as injection substances being purchased outside of medical supply stores, she said.
Not surprisingly, injecting these materials can result in serious health complications and death, she warned.
"In our cluster, these patients had to be hospitalized," she said, adding that such injections should be done by licensed health providers. "We do not recommend going in a hotel room with people who you don't know their credentials."
The risks of cosmetic surgery (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/12/02/model.death.surgery.risk/index.html)



http://us.cnn.com/2012/07/24/justice/black-madam-murder-charge/index.html?iref=obnetwork

[natina]

some one asked a question and this thread gets POPED/BUMPED!
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=69400

[natina]

Miss. man charged in buttocks implant death


By HOLBROOK MOHR
The Associated Press
JACKSON, Miss. —
A Mississippi man who dresses and lives as a woman has been charged with depraved-heart murder after performing an illegal buttocks implant that killed a Georgia woman, authorities said Tuesday.
Morris Garner, who also goes by the name Tracey Lynn Garner, is charged with doing the procedure in March at his house in Jackson, Miss. Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood said during a news conference Tuesday that Garner had no training or license to perform such a procedure.
Authorities said they are testing the substance that was injected into the victim and believe it may turn out to be some kind of counterfeit silicone. Hood said more people may have had breast or buttock implants performed by Garner, and he hopes those people come forward.
Morris is charged with depraved-heart murder in the death of Karima Gordon, 37, of Atlanta. Depraved-heart murder is a legal term for an action that demonstrates a "callous disregard for human life" and results in death. It carries a life sentence.
Hinds County Judge Melvin Priester denied bond after a hearing Tuesday afternoon. Garner was arrested Sept. 6, according to jail records.
"Based on the seriousness of the charge, the court does find that you are a danger to yourself, and more importantly, a danger to the community," the judge said.
After the hearing, Garner's lawyer, John Colette, said he was "shocked" by the seriousness of the charge and the fact that his client was held without bond. He denied his client is guilty of depraved-heart murder.
Garner said during court that he is 53-years-old and worked as a floral and interior designer. He wore a yellow prison jumpsuit and shackles, and his hair was in a short ponytail.
Colette said Garner had undergone operations to change gender.
Hood referred to Garner as a man, and Garner was booked into the Hinds County jail as a man.
Hood said that Gordon, who had served in the military and wanted to become a model, found Garner after meeting someone on the Internet known to authorities only as "Pebbles." Gordon met Pebbles in person in New York City and paid her $200 for the referral to Garner, according to Hood.
Hood said his investigators were looking for Pebbles.
The Associated Press found a Twitter account in Gordon's name from which only one message had been sent, and it was to a Pebbelz Da Model in December. The Twitter account of Pebbelz Da Model had a link to an explicit website by the same name. Nobody immediately responded to an email sent to the website. The website said money orders for access to its contents can be sent to an address in Lakeland, Tenn.
Hood's office had no comment on whether Pebbelz Da Model is the same person his investigators were looking for.
Gordon was an adult entertainer in Atlanta and had undergone other cosmetic procedures, Colette said, though he didn't elaborate. He said he had only recently taken the case and was still trying to find out more about it.
Gordon drove to Mississippi with a friend to have the procedure, but became ill a few hours later. Her friend called Garner and asked what to do, and he told them to buy some cough medicine, Hood said. Gordon died at a Georgia hospital a few days later.
"We've had people practicing medicine without a license, but nothing like this," Hood said.
Deaths from illegal cosmetic procedures have happened sporadically around the country as people seek cheaper alternatives to plastic surgeons. A New Jersey woman pleaded not guilty Tuesday after authorities charged her with giving a man a fatal dose of silicone during a penile enhancement procedure in May. Prosecutors say the suspect in that case had no medical training


http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/georgia/miss-man-charged-in-buttocks-implant-death/nR8Jc/

[natina]

http://frockmagazine.com/frock016/#/16/

[natina]

body modifications

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1205259

[natina]

As demand for illegal silicone injections grows, so do deaths

People seeking bigger buttocks often end up at illegal 'pumping parties' with unsanitary – and sometimes fatal – injections of industrial-grade silicone.


Shatarka Nuby just wanted to be pretty.
She longed to fill out her jeans, to look curvier in her bikini, so she sought out a man with a syringe who said he could sell her the body she wanted for $1,000.
In her bedroom in South Florida, witnesses later told police, Nuby handed Oneal Ron Morris a wad of cash and stretched out on her stomach. Morris plunged a syringe filled with clear liquid into Nuby's hips and buttocks, the onlookers said. Her skin began to rise under the needle.
Nuby underwent treatments for four years and, in time, fell ill. She died in March at age 31.
Morris, 31, now awaits trial on charges of manslaughter. Police say that, using the alias "Duchess," he gave injections to multiple women in South Florida — pumping their buttocks and other body parts with silicone, mineral oil or Fix-A-Flat tire sealant and sealing the wounds with Super Glue.
Nuby is one of hundreds of people who have turned to a black market version of cosmetic surgery (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/surgery/plastic-surgery-HEPAS000021.topic), sometimes with lethal consequences. Her official cause of death: respiratory failure triggered by a massive migration of industrial-grade silicone.
Some see the injections as a quick fix to a body image problem. Others are strippers or sex workers who seek more feminine bodies, or transgender men who can't afford hormone therapy.
"Too often, these are acts of desperation," said Harper Tobin, policy director at the National Center for Transgender Equality.
Since 2002, authorities across the country have investigated more than a dozen deaths related to illegal buttocks injections. Eight people were convicted of practicing medicine without a license or similar offenses. Two others were convicted of negligent homicide or manslaughter.
In a high-profile case out of Philadelphia, Padge Victoria Windslowe, 42 — the self-proclaimed "Black Madam" — was charged in July with third-degree murder.
In September, a Mississippi judge charged Morris Garner, 52, with depraved-heart murder in the death of an Atlanta woman. Investigators say a silicone-like injection caused the blood clots that killed Karima Gordon, 37.
"Until recently, this has been sort of a dark secret," said Dr. Malcolm Roth, president of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/surgery/american-society-of-plastic-surgeons-ORCIG000061.topic). "If you have a back-alley procedure done and live to tell the tale, you'll never be able find the person who did it."
The practice is an illegal variation on a growing trend sometimes called the Jennifer Lopez (http://www.latimes.com/topic/entertainment/music/jennifer-lopez-PECLB003044.topic) effect: the search for the perfect posterior. According to the society of plastic surgeons, Americans spent more than $26 million last year on legal buttocks augmentation.
As the legal market grows, so do less-legal options.
Dr. Angel Coz was on the clock at Detroit's Henry Ford (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/henry-ford-PESPT002331.topic) Hospital in January 2011 when a young woman came in. Her chest hurt. She was coughing up blood.
X-rays showed silicone scattered across her lungs (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/human-body/lungs-airways-HHA000035.topic), like stars in the Milky Way.
She had gone with her girlfriends to a "pumping party" in a hotel room, she told Coz, where they negotiated a group discount on silicone injections. The shortness of breath hit immediately after the shots.
"People don't know what they're getting into when they go into that hotel room," Coz said.
It's impossible to say how common the practice has become, but Kimberly Smedley's case suggests it's widespread.
Over nine years, prosecutors said, the Atlanta woman ordered 4,920 pounds of centistoke dimethyl siloxane fluid, often an additive for furniture polish. She called the fluid medical-grade silicone and dispensed it from a Poland Spring water jug at $500 to $1,600 a shot

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-lethal-buttocks-injections-20121009,0,7729791.story

[GoddessAthena85]

hatefull. messing up beautiful girls. I found this today. it's just wrong what some people do to these gorgeous girls they take it to the brink of unattural and then some sometimes

[youngblood61]

Be careful out there girls!:)

[natina]

Inside Story of how 20-yr-old Nigerian-Brit Claudia Aderotimi lost her life from butt-enhancement injection in Philadelphia, USA

http://usafricaonline.com/2011/02/16/transsexual-black-madam-and-how-20-yr-old-nigerian-brit-claudia-aderotimi-lost-her-life-from-butt-enhancement-injection-in-philadelphia-usa/


http://www.usafricaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/claudia-seye-aderotimi-pix2-via-usafricaonline.com_.jpg

[natina]

5 part video in Spanish on industrial silicone injection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scvSX9CanqA&feature=channel&list=UL


another video on industrial silicone injection in spanish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLTNgYy762E&feature=related

[natina]

lip and cheek fillers done by celebrity's

http://wonderwall.msn.com/movies/celebrities-presidential-endorsements-22252.gallery#!wallState=0__%2Fmovies%2Fdo-these-celebs-use-fillers-22214.gallery

[natina]

When butt enhancement goes horribly wrong: Woman left with hideous bulge after implant 'flips inside out'


Video apparently shows implant protruding after botched plastic surgery

She moves it back into place, saying: 'Don't think it's meant to do that'


A shocking video emerged today showing a grotesque bulge in a woman's buttock apparently caused when her botched silicone implant 'flipped inside out'.
Instead giving her a smooth, plump appearance, the implant has popped out and is left protruding in an ugly disc shape at the back of her cheek.

In the 20-second clip, the unidentified woman slowly manipulates it back into place while explaining: 'This is my implant flipping backwards'.
She adds: 'I don't think an implant's supposed to do that. It shouldn't be able to flip.'
Scroll down for video


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAE1F000005DC-975_634x610.jpgBad ass-et: A woman shows her bulging buttock caused when her implant popped out of place



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAE3D000005DC-698_634x506.jpgOops: The video, posted on Facebook, shows the implant protruding in a disc shape at the back of her cheek

The video has been 'liked' by 278 people on Facebook and shared nearly 20,000 times.
One user, Donna Wright-Levy, commented: 'I prefer to go harder on the squats, lunges, hamstring curls and the gluteous kickbacks...'

Kader SmileyFace said: 'Uh!! Why would she want a bigger ass!'
More...


I had to shave my head to land Silicon Valley CEO job: 60-year-old forced to lose what was left of his hair, get an eye-lift and trade loafers for Converse to work in youth-obsessed tech-hub (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2239277/CEO-Randy-Adams-60-shaves-head-wears-Converse-job-youth-obsessed-Silicon-Valley.html)
A horrific car crash left her locked in a face that couldn't move... then Bethan was given a 'smile transplant' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2237841/A-horrific-car-crash-left-locked-face--Bethan-given-smile-transplant.html)

It is difficult to establish whether the video is genuine and no details are known about which clinic the woman went to or exactly what type of procedure she had.
But BAAPS Member Adrian Richards, a consultant plastic surgeon at Aurora Clinics in the UK, believes the clip is authentic.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAE62000005DC-13_634x480.jpgBotched buttock: In the clip, the unidentified woman slowly manipulates it back into place while explaining: 'This is my implant flipping backwards'



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAE7A000005DC-608_634x486.jpgMiffed: The woman adds: 'I don't think an implant's supposed to do that. It shouldn't be able to flip'



He said the problem occurs when the implant is not secured firmly enough in a 'pocket' the surgeon creates either between the buttock and the pelvic bone or on top of the gluteus maximus.

'It is a complication which is relatively common following buttock implants. It shouldn't really happen because the pocket should be snug so the implant stays where it is.
'This lady's implant is flat on the bottom and coned on the top, but this one has flipped over.'
He said it wouldn't be painful, but would likely need to be removed or the pocket closed up to stop it shifting around.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAEAA000005DC-511_634x509.jpgBack in place: The video has been 'liked' by 278 people on Facebook and shared nearly 20,000 times



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/28/article-2239722-163FAED6000005DC-46_634x511.jpgHow it should look: The implant returns to its 'default position' but may not stay there for long



Buttock implants are popular in South America, where plump bottoms are regarded as sexually desirable.
In recent years, plastic surgery experts have been warning women not to have operations in unapproved clinics after a string of deaths and dodgy practices.

In April last year, a 42-year-old mother-of-three died after buttock implant surgery at a backstreet Las Vegas clinic.
Elena Caro's family begged her not to have the operation, saying she was beautiful as she was, but she went ahead with the surgery.
She was found crying in agony and begging for help after an unlicensed Colombian doctor allegedly dumped her by the side of the road when the procedure went wrong and she died in hospital a short time later.
In December 2009, a former Miss Argentina who was obsessed with maintaining her youthful looks died following surgery to make her buttocks firmer.
Solange Magnano, 38, was rushed to hospital with severe breathing problems after the cosmetic operation.
The mother of eight-year-old twins died from a blocked lung artery after spending three days in a critical condition in intensive care.
Atlanta woman Kimberly Smedley was jailed for three years in July after injecting customers' buttocks with commercial silicone in hotel rooms and using glue and cotton balls to prevent the substance from leaking out.
Federal prosecutors believe Smedley made at least $1.3 million while operating her illegal practice out of hotel rooms in Baltimore, Washington, Detroit, Philadelphia and New York.

In cases where silicone jabs are used, the procedure can cause a blood clot to the lungs known as a pulmonary embolism.
VIDEO: Woman shows off botched butt implant


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2239722/Video-butt-implant-surgery-goes-horribly-wrong.html#ixzz2DZU7E3iA


BUTT IMPLANTS: HOW IT'S DONE


To insert the implant, an incision is usually made where the cheek meets the back of the thigh or in the buttock crease where the scars are less noticeable.
The surgeon then creates a pocket large enough to insert the silicone either under the gluteus maximus muscle or on top of it.
Sometimes fat is taken by liposuction from another area of the body to enhance the shape of the buttocks.
The surgeon will then make sure both buttocks are symmetrical before stitching up the wounds.

But if the pocket is made too big, the implant can slip out.

The procedure is normally performed under general anaesthetic.

An alternative method involves injecting fat into the buttocks.

[natina]

You Want Some Ass Shots Inside Edition Investigates Illegal Back-Room Booty Enhancements!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvY5jnbD7M

Back Room Booty Injections - Inside Edition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lv8VT8kyZI

PIX News - NJ Woman Accused of Giving Unlicensed Butt Injections (11-24-10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWHOqFhEJYc


Is The SIZE of Vanity "the 8th" Wonder's butt Photoshopped or Not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQvPdzP2T8A

Vanity Wonder's 2010 Thank You's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TjwmmudEk4


Woman has over 1000 butt surgeries ---Vanity Wonder's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWz1EMteSN8

buttinjectionkits.com

Hydrogel Butt Injections Kit for Sale

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(Year/Month/Date)Buyer / Seller in EC21SellerBusiness TypeManufacturerYear established1995Employees total101 - 500Annual revenueUSD 500,001 - 1,000,000
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[natina]

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[natina]

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ABOUT AN HOUR Hydrogel is 100% Polyacrylamide of INTER FALL brand.
Valid period is 2-3 years. And only 50ml/vial is available.
The Price list is as follow.
$ 600 for 250 CC (125cc for each cheek).
$ 1200 for 500CC (250cc for each cheek).
$ 1800 for 750CC (375cc for each cheek).
The price for 1000ml (20 x 50ml) is USD 2500 including shipping cost.
What makes us the best is we `ve got the best Surgeons who will do the.
injecting.
Hydrogel can increase or change the size of these areas:.
First Upper buttock.
Second Middle buttock.
Third Lower buttock.
4th Hip expansion.


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[natina]

VANITY WONDERS

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67974

[natina]

NOT SILICONE INJECTIONS BUT IMPORTANT FOR FFS NONE THE LESS

Feminine vs. masculine

http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine


Feminine vs. masculine

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/greta.garbo.jpg
Please note: Some images on this page are not work-safe.
The information on this page allows one to infer how masculine or feminine different women are, and should be used to compare high-fashion models with glamour models.
Men develop under higher androgen levels than women. Women develop under higher estrogen levels than men. Both androgens and estrogens affect various skeletal structures and soft tissues in different ways. Therefore, an examination of overall physical appearance allows one to compare the ratios of testosterone (a major androgen) to estradiol (a major estrogen) that people of the same ethnic group have developed under.
Some of the major physique differences between men and women are well-known and are not addressed here. For example, a woman with broad shoulders and a narrow pelvis is more masculinized than the typical woman. The discussion below mostly focuses on facial features and pelvic/torso skeletal structure. Please note that since sex hormones are only partly responsible for trait variation, it is necessary to consider a cluster of traits known to be influenced by sex hormones to assess the masculinity-femininity of a person.

The skull

Fig 1 shows variation in [European] skull shape resulting from sex differences, after removing the size-differences factor. The middle skull (top row) represents the average of men and women; the skulls to its left and right represent feminization (effect of estrogens) and masculinization (effect of androgens), respectively. Note the two-dimensional matrix in the background of the middle skull; the directionality of its deformation in the background of the other two skulls represents the effects of sex hormones.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph.gif

Fig 1: Change in skull shape as a function of sex, assessed via geometric morphometrics.(1) The first row shows transformation grids from mean centroid size into a female and into a male. The bottom row shows corresponding generalized least-square superimpositions. "In males, the nasoglabellar profile [region around points 1 and 2 in the figure] becomes curved and projecting, and the subnasal profile rotates clockwise. The nasal roof is elevated, and the nasal floor shifts downwards. The outer table of the occipital clivus rotates counterclockwise. The chin is lowered, and the gonial region gets strongly curved [the gonion is marked at point 22]. At the occipital bone in males , the squamous proportion dominates over the nuchal area, and the whole basi- and neurocranium is deformed globularly."(3) The numbers are defined as follows: 1, Glabella; 2, Nasion; 3, Rhinion; 4, Anterior nasal spine; 5, A-point (deepest point on the curvature of the alveolar clivus in the median sagittal plane); 6, Prosthion; 7, Infradentale; 8, B-point (deepest point at the mandibular symphysis curvature [between landmark 7 and landmark 9]); 9, Menton; 10, Gnathion; 11, Vomero-sphenoid junction; 12, Basion; 13, Ophistion; 14, Inion; 15, Ophistocranion; 16, Lambda; 17, Bregma; 18, R. alveolar point (right posterior limit of the maxillary alveolar arc at the pterygo-alveolar suture); 19, R. optic canal point (most superior, medial, and anterior points of the optic canal [superior border of the posterior face]); 20, R. inf. basal border; 21, R. preangular incisure; 22, R. gonion; 23, R. ramus flexion; 24, R. condylion; 25, R. mastoid tip (most distal point at the mastoid process); 26, R. mental foramen (anterior limit); 27, R. lingula mandibulae (antero-lateral base); 28, R. foramen ovale (postero-lateral corner); 29, Posterior nasal spine.(1)
Fig 2 summarizes the finds obtained in Fig 1.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph2.gif


Fig 2: Change in skull shape as a function of masculinization and feminization.(1)


Fig 3 sums up some elements of cranial shape variation resulting from masculinization and feminization, and includes some of the changes not addressed in Fig 1. The technical terms in Fig 3 are explained below it.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph3.gif


Fig 3: Cranial shape variation related to masculinization and feminization.(2-4)








In Fig 3, changes related to the mastoid process, nuchal plane (back of the skull at the nape of the neck) and external occipital protuberance are not relevant for a visual comparison based on photographs of real people because hair would typically hide the differences. Fig 3 also mentions shape changes in the superciliary and zygomatic arches, which are explained next. Notice the spot marked as the glabella in Figure 3. The superciliary arches are the arches on the forehead, right above the eyebrows, which extend sideways on both sides of the glabella. The zygomatics are the cheekbones, shown in orange in Fig 4, which also depicts the cross-hatched bony portion known as the zygomatic arch.
http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/zygomatics.jpg


Fig 4: Zygomatic bones, also known as cheekbones (orange) and the zygomatic arch (cross-hatched portion). The cheekbones are higher in males, lower in females; and the zygomatic arches are higher and thicker in males, lower and thinner in females.(3, 4) Illustrations taken from Sobotta Atlas of Human Anatomy (http://www.lww.com/product/?0-7817-3403-7).
Fig 5 shows real-life examples of the skull of a feminine woman (left) and that of a masculine man.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/skulls.jpg


Fig 5: The skulls of a feminine woman (left) and a masculine man.




Fig 6 addresses change in [European] skull shape as a function of size. Note that increasing face size sharpens the gonial angle (at point 22), giving it a masculine appearance.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/allometry.gif


Fig 6: Change in face shape as a function of size, assessed via geometric morphometrics.(1) The first row shows transformation grids from mean centroid size into a small individual and into a large one. The bottom row shows corresponding generalized least-square superimpositions. "With increasing centroid size [face size], the subnasal clivus becomes enlarged and rotates counterclockwise; the increment of the mandibular ramus [vertical portion of lower jaw bone] height leads to a more pronounced angulation at gonion [point 22]; the antero-posterior dimensions of the splanchnocranium are reduced; the face is expanded supero-inferiorly; the face appears relatively larger than the neurocranium; and the braincase becomes more globular."(1) See the legend of Fig 1 for the definitions of the numbers.
There are additional changes in facial features related to sex hormones; these changes are addressed after controlling for size: the eyebrows are thicker and placed lower on the face, i.e., closer to the eyes, in males; the face is broader in the female; the distance between the eyes is greater in the female; and the chin is longer and squared in the male (Fig 7a).


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/face.shape.gif

Fig 7a: Face outline variation resulting from masculinization and feminization (front view, assessed via geometric morphometrics); f = female, m = male.(5)
In Fig 7b, the middle column represents the male-female average (northwest Europeans); the left and right columns represent equal displacements in the male and female direction, respectively. The differences between the left and right columns represent an approximately three-fold exaggeration of average male-female differences.




http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/laser.scan.1.jpg



Fig 7b. Sexual dimorphism in face shape; see text for details.(6)



Figure 7c describes how a female face is transformed by increased feminization. The left column shows the directionality of displacement of parts of the face; the blue part moves inward and the red part outwards; stronger color implies that the directionality of the displacement is closer to right angles to the surface. The middle column shows the magnitude of the displacement; stronger color implies greater magnitude of change; the color coding at each point is in 33% percentiles. The right column shows change in [local] surface area; red implies increase and blue decrease; color coding at each point is in 33% percentiles, with darker colors implying the upper percentiles.




http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/laser.scan.2.jpg




Fig 7c. Face shape change resulting from feminization of a female face; see text for details.(6)






Increasing feminization causes the following important facial changes:sad:6)



(key in a standing person: anterior = toward front, posterior = toward back, superior = above, inferior = below, medial = toward midline, coronal plane = vertical plane dividing body into anterior-posterior parts)


The upper lip and philtrum area is displaced posteriorly and superiorly, and reduced in area, especially in the middle part.
The nose becomes narrower along its length, reduces in area and is displaced posteriorly. The tip of the nose moves posteriorly, making the nose become relatively shorter, and the tip is also displaced superiorly, which turns up the tip of the nose.
The cheeks expand in area and are displaced outwards.
The chin reduces in area and is displaced superiorly and posteriorly. The angle of the mandible is displaced toward the middle of the face, and the mandible is reduced in relative length.
The inferior ear attachment is displaced medially whereas the superior ear attachment is displaced inferiorly, leading to an overall rotation of this area in the coronal plane.
"The superior medial orbital margins are displaced superiorly and posteriorly whereas the superior lateral margins are displaced laterally; the lateral margins are displaced laterally."
The medial forehead is displaced anteriorly and expands laterally; the lateral aspects are displaced anteriorly without lateral expansion.
In Fig 8, the rank-ordering along the lines of masculinity-femininity should be obvious, and the reader should now be able to justify the rank-ordering with some precision. Reflecting the global effects of sex hormones, the rank-ordering of the overall physique of these three women along the lines of masculinity-femininity dovetails with that of their faces.



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/contrast_head.jpg



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/compare1.jpg



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/compare2.jpg








Fig 8: An example of masculine-to-feminine face shape variation. The leftmost picture in the first row has been taken from the cover of " <A id=ame_noshow_post_1359951314_2 href="http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/%3Cdiv%20style=" display: none;?>[url][url][url]Amazon.com: Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression (9781401301897): Brooke Shields: Books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401301894/)



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/misc/amazon_icon.gif (http://www.amazon.413tpj4burl/exe/c/obidos/) Amazon.com: Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression (9781401301897): Brooke Shields: Books (http://www.amazon.413tpj4burl/exe/c/obidos/)

[url][url][url]Amazon.com: Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression (9781401301897): Brooke Shields: Books [URL="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401301894/?tag=citofgamonlco-20"]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413TPJ4bURL._SL175_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401301894/)

[url][url][url]Amazon.com: Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression (9781401301897): Brooke Shields: Books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401301894/?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

(adult site).
Torso/Pelvic structure

Controlling for height, women have a smaller rib cage than men and a wider pelvis. Fig 9 shows the importance of a feminine (small) rib cage in achieving an hourglass figure, which the woman shown cannot achieve, even with breast implants.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/rib1.jpg


Fig 9: A masculinized woman with a large rib cage.


In Fig 10, the masculinized woman shown does not have an hourglass figure because of both a narrow pelvis and a broad rib cage, and once again, even breast implants are not going to help this woman achieve an hourglass figure.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/rib2.jpg



Fig 10: A non-overweight, masculinized woman. Note the posing of the pelvic region. Glamour models with a narrow pelvis typically pose in the twisted manner shown in order to make the male-like shape of their pelvic structure less obvious. Picture taken from Karupspc (http://www3.karupspc.com/cgi/click?account=989322&site=1&program=1&landpage=models/gallery1.php)(adult site).
Fig 11 contrasts a glamour model (left) with a high-fashion model (right). The high-fashion model shown is clearly among the more feminine ones compared to the norm. Given that a number of feminine women refuse to pose naked and that the selection of glamour models in some major outlets such as Playboy magazine has been influenced by the high status of high-fashion models (http://www.femininebeauty.info/eating-disorders#playboy), some authors(7) have pointed out that with an average waist-to-hip ratio (WHR) of 0.71, fashion models have an hourglass figure given that Playboy models have an average WHR of 0.68!



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/rib7.jpg


Fig 11: Contrast rib cage relative size between the glamour model (left) and the high-fashion model.


WHRs of 0.71 and 0.68 may not sound that different, but see the discussion of the data provided by Tovee et al. in Table 1 here (http://www.femininebeauty.info/eating-disorders#t1). On the other hand, one look at Fig 12 suffices to show what a feminine WHR is supposed to look like; very feminine WHRs are in the 0.60-0.65 range. Note that the feminine women in Fig 12 have smaller breasts than both the glamour model and the high-fashion model in Fig 11, yet present a more feminine look overall. Furthermore, contrast the masculine arm length of the high-fashion model in Fig 11 (a typical example) with the feminine arm lengths of the glamour models in Fig 12.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/rib3.jpg


Fig 12: A good illustration of what feminine waist and hip proportions are supposed to look like.




By now, the importance of skeletal structure -- as it is shaped by sex hormones -- in the appearance of a feminine, hourglass figure should be obvious. Fig 13 should help make this point clearer as it shows a slender, small-breasted woman that nevertheless has a feminine pelvic region and torso, thanks to a pelvis that is wide enough for an attractive woman and a small rib cage.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/rib6.jpg



Fig 13: A slender woman with small breasts that nevertheless has feminine pelvic and torso proportions due to a feminine skeletal structure. Picture taken from Karupspc (http://www3.karupspc.com/cgi/click?account=989322&site=1&program=1&landpage=models/gallery1.php)(adult site).
Fig 14 addresses sexual dimorphism in pelvic structure. In a standing person, the female pelvis is broader when viewed from the front or side and its vertical length is smaller.



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/pelvis.jpg


Fig 14: Sexual dimorphism in the pelvis. The measures provided are referenced with respect to FL (femur length; the femur is the thigh bone) and FHD (femur head diameter) and defined in terms of the points marked as follows.(:cool: “Anteroposterior diameters: inlet (a, A–B), sacral promontory to dorsomedial border of superior aspect of pubic body; midplane (a, B–C), dorsomedial border of superior aspect of pubic body to lower sacral vertebra. Anteroposterior diameter of midplane was taken [in humans] from transverse line between fourth and fifth sacral vertebra to dorsomedial border of inferior aspect of primary pubic symphysis. Transverse diameters: inlet (b, D–D), maximum distance between lineae terminales, with this diameter being aligned visually to be perpendicular to anteroposterior diameter of inlet; midplane (c, E–E), distance between ischial spines. Posterior spaces: inlet (a, D–F), curved length along linea terminalis from transverse diameter of inlet to intersection with auricular surface of ilium; midplane (a, C–E), point on sacral vertebra used in measurement of anteroposterior diameter of midplane to ischial spine. Anterior spaces: inlet (a, B–D), curved length along linea terminalis from dorsomedial border of superior aspect of pubic body to transverse diameter of inlet; midplane (a, E–H), ischial spine to dorsomedial border of inferior aspect of primary pubic symphysis (a, H). Sacrum: breadth (b, F–F), straight distance across ventral aspect of sacrum where sacrum met linea terminalis when pelvis was articulated; length (b, A–C), curved length from sacral promontory to point on sacral vertebra used in measurement of anteroposterior diameter of midplane; for [I]H. sapiens, sacral length was from sacral promontory to inferior border of fifth sacral vertebra. Other measures: linea terminalis (a, B–F), curved length from dorsomedial border of superior aspect of pubic body to auricular surface of ilium; depth (a, F–I), intersection of linea terminalis and auricular surface of ilium to inner margin on dorsal aspect of ischial tuberosity.”(:cool: The F and M statistics are reported for Student’s t-test and Wilcoxon-Mann-Whitney test, respectively. The color illustrations have been taken from Sobotta Atlas of Human Anatomy (http://www.lww.com/product/?0-7817-3403-7).
Fig 15 shows an example of a feminine backside. Figures 16 and 17 illustrate the folly of judging femininity via breast size alone. As seen in Fig 16, it is fairly common to come across large-breasted women with backsides that are flatter than the feminine norm. Similarly, in Fig 17, the obese women not only have massive breasts but also a large pelvis, yet their backsides are flatter than the feminine norm. The women shown in Figures 16 and 17 have sufficient estradiol to produce large breasts, but their testosterone-to-estradiol ratio is elevated, and development under above-average levels of testosterone is responsible for a masculinized WHR and a masculinized pelvis in these women, and the elevated testosterone levels are also correlated with excessive abdominal fat in the women shown in Fig 17. See here (http://www.femininebeauty.info/eatingdisorders.htm#whr) for the relevant citations concerning elevated testosterone levels in obese women or women with an elevated WHR and also evidence that large breasts are diagnostic of femininity if accompanied by a small waist and -- by extrapolation -- a feminine backside [given the global effects of sex hormones]. The feminine protrusion of the backside in normal women is mainly a function of pelvic bone structure, although in some African and aboriginal populations, fat mass can make a notable contribution to the prominence of the backside in women.





http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/eva.jpg



Fig 15: An example of a feminine backside. Picture taken from FTV girls (shttp://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=920029-0000&PA=1076570)(adult site).



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/bib.breasts.1.jpg






Fig 16: Two examples of women with large breasts that nevertheless have backsides that are flatter than the feminine norm. Pictures taken from Score magazine (http://www.scoreland.com/pt=scrg12816) (adult site).



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/big.breasts.3.jpg

Fig 17: Two examples of obese women with large breasts, yet backsides that are flatter than the feminine norm. Pictures taken from Score magazine (http://www.scoreland.com/pt=scrg12816) (adult site).
Another example that should help one appreciate the importance of judging masculinity-femininity from overall appearance is shown below. Which of the two women in the following picture looks more feminine?



http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/whr.1s.jpg (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/whr.1.jpg)



Fig 18. Melissa from Teen Stars Magazine (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=924891&PA=1257881&BAN=1&HTML=http://www.teenstarsmagazine.com/?PRO=CCBILL) (left) and Ludmila from Domai (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=900004-0000&PA=1076760); click for larger image.




Now look at the following two pictures of the women in Fig 18 and answer who is more feminine.




http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/whr.2.jpg




Fig 19. Ludmila from Domai (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=900004-0000&PA=1076760) (left) and Melissa from Teen Stars Magazine (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=924891&PA=1257881&BAN=1&HTML=http://www.teenstarsmagazine.com/?PRO=CCBILL); links lead to adult sites.


http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/whr.3.jpg

Fig 20. Ludmila from Domai (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=900004-0000&PA=1076760) (left) and Melissa from Teen Stars Magazine (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=924891&PA=1257881&BAN=1&HTML=http://www.teenstarsmagazine.com/?PRO=CCBILL); links lead to adult sites.











In Fig 18, the small breasts and large nose of the light woman suggest reduced feminization and greater masculinization, respectively, but the dark woman has broader shoulders, narrower hips, a smaller backside, a more masculine waist-to-hip ratio, a stronger chin and more masculine hands and feet (not clear in the pictures shown). Thus, the appropriate conclusion is that that the light woman is more feminine, and her large nose and small breasts do not represent greater masculinization and lesser feminization, respectively, but other factors, instead.

On the other hand, when one comes across physiques like those shown in Fig 21, there is little doubt as to where they stand on the masculine-feminine scale.





http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/feminine.women.jpg




Fig 21. Dasha from Model flats (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=923818-0000&PA=1275059&HTML=http://www.modelflats.com/free-tour.html) (left) and Elkie from Simonscans (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=912363-0000&PA=1078128); links lead to adult sites.






[B]References



Rosas, A., and Bastir, M., Thin-plate spline analysis of allometry and sexual dimorphism in the human craniofacial complex, Am J Phys Anthropol, 117, 236 (2002).
Walrath, D. E., Turner, P., and Bruzek, J., Reliability test of the visual assessment of cranial traits for sex determination, Am J Phys Anthropol, 125, 132 (2004).
Buikstra, J., Ubelaker, D., and Aftandilian, D. A., Standards for data collection from human skeletal remains, Arkansas Archaeological Survey, Fayetteville, AK (1994).
Ferembach, D., Schwidetzky, I., and Stloukal, M., Recommendations for age and sex diagnoses of skeletons, J Hum Evol, 9, 517 (1980).
Fink, B., Grammer, K., Mitteroecker, P., Gunz, P., Schaefer, K., Bookstein, F. L., and Manning, J. T., Second to fourth digit ratio and face shape, Proc R Soc B, 272, 1995 (2005).
Hennessy, R. J., McLearie, S., Kinsella, A., Waddington, J. L. Facial surface analysis by 3D laser scanning and geometric morphometrics in relation to sexual dimorphism in cerebral--craniofacial morphogenesis and cognitive function, J Anat, 207, 283 (2005).
Tovee, M. J., Mason, S. M., Emery, J. L., McCluskey, S. E., and Cohen-Tovee, E. M., Supermodels: stick insects or hourglasses? Lancet, 350, 1474 (1997).
Tague, R. G., Big-bodied males help us recognize that females have big pelves, Am J Phys Anthropol, 127, 392 (2005).


http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine (http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine)

[natina]

http://www.femininebeauty.info/masculinization-feminization-in-men

Feminization and masculinization in the looks of men

Submitted by Admin on Mon, 11/12/2007 - 05:01This topic doesn’t really belong at this site, but some readers have wanted me to write on this issue, to be fair if not anything else. I agree that it is fair to also address men at some length. I mulled including the following contents in a zipped file for anyone interested, but decided that it is best to post it online. Before I begin, I wish to say that just as I have nothing against masculinized women, I have nothing against effeminate/feminized men.
The feminine vs. masculine page (http://www.femininebeauty.info/fem.vs.masculine.htm) within this site extensively addresses skull and face shape variation resulting from masculinization and feminization. There is no need to repeat it here; some pictures will suffice. The reader can also download the demo version of facegen modeler (http://www.facegen.com/) and see, from multiple angles, how increasing masculinization alters the face. The demo version of this program allows one to do everything except for exporting to external 3D formats and displaying the ‘SI’ logo on the forehead.
The following example is an easy contrast between an effeminate face and a masculine one.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/leo.and.burt.jpg
Fig. 1. Leonardo DiCaprio (left) and Burt Lancaster.
Confounds in judging the masculinity of men

As in women, men’s masculinity should be judged from overall looks. One should beware of the following issues.
Gracilization as pseudo-feminization
Fineness of facial features should not be confounded with feminization. Northern European men often have fine facial features as in the following Swedish male, but his overall face shape is clearly masculine.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/swede2.jpg
Fig. 2. A man from Sweden.
Bizarre combination of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics
There are some scenarios in men that are difficult to find if not non-existent in women. For example, the following individual has a masculine overall face shape but an effeminate body. His body is not effeminate because he is short, but because of its shape. He is not overall describable as either masculine or feminine/effeminate or even normal.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/tom.cruise.jpg
Fig. 3. Tom Cruise.
If one had a few masculine-looking features but were overall effeminate, it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary since sex hormones are not the only factors shaping looks, but observing multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics in the same individual is curious. Such bizarre combinations could result from a number of scenarios. For instance, some physical features are shaped to a significant extent during prenatal development but others are mostly shaped after birth. Therefore, if a male’s testes are not able to produce high levels of androgens such as testosterone but this person is nevertheless exposed to high levels of testosterone in the womb because his mother produced high levels of androgens when she was pregnant, then he will manifest a curious mix of masculine and not so masculine features. An example could be a specific finger-length ratio talked about shortly being masculine even though the overall body shape isn’t. In another scenario, prenatal developmental disturbances caused by excess testosterone exposure will lead to a strange mix of hypermasculine, normally masculine and hypomasculine/effeminate characteristics.
Muscular build
Since having larger muscles is a more masculine-looking feature and there are very easy ways to increase muscle size without being a masculine man -- anabolic androgenic steroids, beta-adrenergic agonists and to a limited extent relatively harmless substances such as creatine monohydrate -- caution is advised in judging the masculinity of a man based on his muscularity. Even without these ergogenic aids, a less masculine man who regularly lifts heavy weights could be packing more muscle mass than a more masculine man who doesn’t do weightlifting. Some illustrative examples of professional male bodybuilders -- steroid-induced freaks -- will clarify this issue.
Do you see a hypermasculine man below?

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.1.jpg
Fig. 4. Richard Gaspari.
Think again. Look carefully at Gaspari’s shoulder width; it is unimpressive.
Richard Gaspari doesn’t have a masculine face.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.2s.jpg (http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.2.jpg)
Fig. 5. Richard Gaspari; click for context.
Richard Gaspari also does not have particularly narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.3.jpg
Fig. 6. Richard Gaspari.
The following picture shows Markus Ruhl, and is a good example of what very masculine shoulder width looks like. However, note that Markus Ruhl doesn’t have a masculine face. Also note that Markus Ruhl doesn’t have particularly narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/markus.ruhl.jpg
Fig. 7. Markus Ruhl.
Again, look at the following individual; very large muscles, but non-narrow hips and a face that is not so masculine.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/greg.kovacs.jpg
Fig. 8. Greg Kovacs.
It should be easy to look at the following comparisons and infer who has a more masculine build. Who has the combination of wider shoulders, narrower hips and a smaller backside?

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/jay.and.dennis.jpg
Fig. 9. Jay Cultler (left) and Dennis Wolf.
The following individual is a masculine male from head to toe: masculine face, wide shoulders, narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/dorian.yates.1.jpg
Fig. 10. Dorian Yates.
I don’t have pictures of Dorian Yates as a young man, but judging from the following picture, he was close to looking like a Greek God in the flesh.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/dorian.yates.2.jpg
Fig. 11. Dorian Yates.
The take home message should be clear. Look at multiple skeletal cues to judge the masculinity of men. Some bodybuilders take human growth hormone (HGH), too, and on some counts HGH changes face shape in the same direction as testosterone. So this can confound judging masculinity, too.
If one observes obese men, they will often have heavy/thick bones and also a large amount of muscle mass, but obese men are on average among the least masculine of men in terms of testosterone levels, estrogen levels, phallus size, etc. So, some people have a propensity to pack on lots of body mass; not just fat tissue, but also muscles and bone mass. The physical constitution that predisposes one toward developing a corpulent/rotund body has been classically described as endomorphy, said to be a somatotype or somatype (build). Other somatotypes include mesomorphy (tendency toward muscularity and masculine skeletal proportions) and ectomorphy (tendency toward a long, lean and thin body development). The extent to which people lean toward these builds varies. A man who leans toward an endomorphic build to a significant but not excessive degree (e.g., Greg Kovacs above) could pack on a large amount of muscle mass using the pharmaceutical agents described above and burn off some undesirable body fat by taking alpha-adrenergic stimulators, but this wouldn’t be making him a masculine man.
Another confound affects an important structure discussed next.
For the ladies


http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/for.the.ladies.jpg
Fig. 12. Stuff that matters.
I previously showed the following graph about the relation between mesomorphy/muscular build and body hairiness. Starting from an effeminate physical build, as the physique becomes naturally more masculine, body hairiness increases, which appears intuitive, but beyond a certain point, greater body hairiness corresponds to a weaker physical build. A plausible explanation of the relationship is that beyond a certain level of androgen exposure, a male fetus is developmentally disturbed, resulting in a weak physical build, but since the individual produces elevated androgens, simple structures like body hair show the effect of elevated androgens.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/hair.and.build.jpg
Fig. 13. Relation between body hair and muscular build.
It is almost certain that a similar relationship exists between muscular build and phallus length, too. The reasons are that the phallus is set well onto its developmental path when the male is in the womb, and this growth is strongly dependent on the same androgen that is a major determinant of body hair growth: dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is derived from testosterone and is more potent than it; it serves to amplify the effect of testosterone on a tissue. The phallus is a simple structure, and is expected to show a dose-response relationship with androgens/DHT over a broader range than the more complex structure of the overall musculo-skeletal build. Hence, the most naturally muscular men are not necessarily well-endowed. Some of the best endowed men may have an otherwise skinny/weak physical build, but such men will usually have multiple masculine features (e.g., a short, skinny man with lots of body hair and a deep, manly voice).
There are some developmental genes (homeobox genes; Hox A, Hox B) that affect both digits (fingers/toes) and the phallus. There is a useful proxy for prenatal testosterone exposure: the index finger-length ratio to ring finger-length ratio or 2nd finger-length ratio to 4th finger-length ratio (2D:4D). The useful measure is on the right hand as it is more sensitive to sex steroids. 2D:4D is established prenatally. With increasing masculinization, the index finger becomes shorter than the ring finger, i.e., 2D:4D diminishes with increasing masculinization. Evidence for this as well as other correlates of 2D:4D can be read about here (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1409789).
So how could one be reasonably confident that a given man is healthy, masculine and well-endowed without looking at his phallus and giving him a medical exam? The exclusion and selection criteria should be obvious. Exclude the obese/overweight, those with excess abdominal fat even if they are okay elsewhere (this is a diseased constitution) and men with a strange mix of hypermasculine/masculine, normally masculine and hypomasculine/effeminate characteristics. Select men with broad shoulders, a tiny waist, narrow hips and a small backside; and go for men in whom the index finger is noticeably/strikingly shorter than the ring finger. The ideal masculine man would have been exposed to high levels of androgens during prenatal development, developed under high testosterone levels post-natally, possess high baseline testosterone levels and have had no trouble handling the high testosterone levels. These exclusion and selection criteria increase the statistical odds of making the right inference; there are no guarantees; an obese man may be packing a member that would put most men to shame.
Comment

As in women, it is important to look at multiple characteristics in men to assess how masculine/feminine they are. Unlike in women, it is harder to judge how masculine a man is because of the ease with which less masculine men can pack on more muscle mass given current technology, and the phenomenon of some men with a mix of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics. Men’s masculinity assessment should focus on multiple skeletal characteristics/proportions.



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Comments

# 1 | Submitted by brenda on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:42 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2430#comment-2430)
Hey Eric, this is really cool. You should post more articles like this. Why don't you compare men who look effeminate, who look normal, with above average masculinity, and those who are hypermasculine?




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#2 | Submitted by BSP on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 20:19 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2434#comment-2434)
Is it really in the realm of normal sexuality to find people that extremely muscular attractive?




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#3 | Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 22:27 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2436#comment-2436)
Dorian Yates does not look like a Greek God; he just looks like a freak, as well as the rest of the men on this page, with the exception of the first four.
Leo is too feminine for my tastes, but he's still a good-looking man, Burt is alright, and Tom Cruise would look close to perfect if it weren't for his nose.
"Fineness of facial features should not be confounded with feminization. Northern European men often have fine facial features as in the following Swedish male, but his overall face shape is clearly masculine."
Not really. He looks quite effeminate, Erik, especially his nose.
Just curious - what do you think is the definition of a "pretty boy?" Do you consider pretty boys to be attractive men who look feminine (Ryan Phillipe, for example) or attractive men who look masculine, and are called "pretty boys" only because they look good (Fabio Cannavaro)?
My friend calls any guy she thinks is attractive "pretty," even when they're very masculine, and that confuses me since I associate the word "pretty" only with women.




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#4 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 00:36 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2451#comment-2451)
Brenda: Going into details about men isn’t what this site is about. The article should do a decent job of emphasizing the importance of skeletal structure in judging men’s masculinity in light of various confounds.
BPS: Some women find the extreme muscularity shown above very appealing, and this is not so unusual, but most women find extremely muscular men unappealing or repulsive.
Sarah: I have told you before not to bother with understanding masculine vs. feminine variation. The Swedish male does not look effeminate. Discussing a “pretty boy” with you would be a waste of time. The term can apply to effeminate but appealing (to those using the term) men or cute men or men who are masculine but have smooth/blemishless skin, nice hair, and a well-groomed plus generally pleasing appearance.




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#5 | Submitted by Not From Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 10:47 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2472#comment-2472)
I always thought Christopher Walken looked like a woman. People say he's 'creepy' ect, I'm like nope, he's f.e.m.i.n.i.z.e.d. yikes!
http://www.thecinemasource.com/moviesdb/images/Christopher_Walken%20-%201%20-%20Hairspray.jpg




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#6 | Submitted by Not From Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 11:14 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2473#comment-2473)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Femdog/move.jpg
Apparently David Bowie moved on from his androgynous phase. His hips say otherwise. Good god.




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#7 | Submitted by Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 13:03 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2483#comment-2483)
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/75442629.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19309EBFDFE8F65174D155CBF5A321FA153
walken again




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#8 | Submitted by brenda on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 14:43 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2486#comment-2486)
So why don't you make a website on this? This is just as interesting as feminine beauty, or maybe even more for women. I don't think the feminized men will complain as much as the masculinized women who chance upon this site. Anyway, does the ring finger-index finger ratio as indicator of testosterone levels also apply to women?




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#9 | Submitted by BSP on Sat, 12/01/2007 - 23:30 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2603#comment-2603)
That reminds me Erik- you mention how robustness shouldn't be confounded with feminization. I've always suspected this, but I've never fully noticed it until recently when you pointed it out. It comes back to that one white nationalist blog that prompted me to write to you- he made that mistake, which led him to dismiss nearly all non-white females as hideous. Still, why would you say that women in western countries with large jaws and cheekbones are so rare in fashion, while there's a strong mixture of it in east asian countries? Are their certain extremities on these features where they're considered unattractive outside femininity, or are these considered feminine no matter what, regardless of their size? And exactly what contributes to these facial features looking masculine if size plays no role? It's easy to see, but I'm not sure of the term.




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#10 | Submitted by BSP on Sun, 12/02/2007 - 02:14 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2605#comment-2605)
Also, would you say there's a lack of models and the like with large jaws and cheekbones in the US? (though strongly feminine as well?) What could this be attributed to? There seems to be alot of variation when it comes to east asia in terms of that, but they're just pretty uncommon in western markets.
Also, one other thing to note about your site- in that one 7-part series, when you're comparing asian and european models to women from tribal and tradition societies, that's pretty..... poor. "Attractive" individuals are hard to come by in those societies due to how tightly-knit those populations are and thus leading to little pressure for truly attractive traits. There's also how those stressful lifestyles accentuate ageing and testosterone levels, contributing to greater masculinity.




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#11 | Submitted by BSP on Tue, 12/04/2007 - 22:44 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2642#comment-2642)
Erik, what do you make of this?
http://www.sensualism.com/beauty/index.html
I've heard there's somewhat of a debate over this in regards to male beauty. And what's the deal with that comment about facial hair? That seems rather neutral, unless in extremities.




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#12 | Submitted by BSP on Tue, 12/04/2007 - 22:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2643#comment-2643)
I think a good way to look at that would be to see what the maximum size of these are in normal human phenotype variation- not sure how that's possible though.




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#13 | Submitted by justagirl on Tue, 12/11/2007 - 01:40 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2673#comment-2673)
can u please please show me pix of guys who are not body builders. I want to see what a "normal" masculine guy looks like, and more face pictures please.
show a range please. show a skinny guy who is masc. vs. a skinny guy who is fem.
show a chubby guy who is masc. and a chubby guy who is fem.
a short man and a tall man, please.
and of course an average guy who is masc and one who is fem.
show body and face.
and graphs dont do much for me, can you show pictures of normal mens body hair pattern, over masc. body hair, and can u describe or show the result of too much exposure to male hormones (fetus) in an adult
you have also focused mostly on the masc./fem. characteristics of Caucasoid males can you show these effects in other races if possible
thanks would appreciate this so soooo much!!!




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#14 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 03:52 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3341#comment-3341)
Brenda: I don’t have the time or motive to come up with an equivalent site that addresses men. I can barely handle this site. The finger length find also applies to women.
BSP: There are plenty of women with prominent cheekbones among Western fashion models, and some of them also have large/wide jaws, but on average their jaws and cheekbones will be smaller than in East Asians because they descend from populations with smaller faces. The features that contribute to a masculine or feminine look are primarily shape variables; size is a factor only when a change in size alters shape variables (allometry) that are also altered in different ways by androgens and estrogens.
You shouldn’t be looking at pictures of European/Asian models and African tribals on the same page as a type of comparison. The comparisons are based on anthropological data. The pictures are merely illustrative examples of the arguments in the text. It was necessary to avoid using pictures of sub-Saharan Africans with other-population mixture, which explains the use of tribals’ pictures, though some models of predominantly sub-Saharan African ancestry are also used. As to attractive individuals hard to come by in tribal societies, this is your opinion, and your explanation that this is so because of how tight-knit they are doesn’t apply. Why should attractiveness in a mate be less important among tribals? Whereas chronic stressors will cause premature aging, I did not address skin health. I have mostly focused on skeletal features. Chronic stress decreases testosterone levels in men but does not have a clear effect on testosterone levels in women.
The sensualism site has cited the results of a study on male facial attractiveness in relation to how masculine or feminine it is, but there have been many such studies and there is no clear find to sum up. Some such studies have reported a preference for more overall masculine faces, others for less overall masculine faces, and some others have documented little relevance of masculinity-femininity in the neighborhood of average norms. In many of these studies there has been a confound between masculinization and robusticity. Findings are clearer for preferences regarding individual features such as longer chin length and higher cheekbone placement in men, both associated with greater masculinization. There are also finds that women prefer more masculine looking men when they are close to ovulating, more attractive women prefer more masculine looking men, and more promiscuous women prefer more masculine looking men.
Justagirl: I do not have the time to come up with the images you are looking for. This website is not about men, but I was able to come up with this article to be fair. Keep in mind the skeletal proportions issue. Among thin men, those with more overall masculine skeletal proportions will tend to be more masculine, just as this will be the case among obese men or men in any specific non-European population. What constitutes average, below average or above average body hairiness depends upon the population considered, and you will have to observe enough men in a given population to get an idea of the distribution of body hairiness in it.




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#15 | Submitted by . on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 19:33 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3415#comment-3415)
I read somewhere, that black man have higher testosterone levels,hence broader shoulders and narrower hips .
Is it true Erik ???
The top bodybuilder is Ronnie Coleman -who's black .
Jay Cutler -white one is next .
Dont know ,but it seems easier for black man to build muscle ?
I read some journal that says it .
Broader shoulders ,and larger penises and also longer slenderer calf muscle ideal for sprinting events .
True ????




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#16 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 05/01/2008 - 02:38 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3420#comment-3420)
dot: Whereas Ronnie Coleman was the #1 bodybuilder for many years and a massively muscular individual at that, the most muscular bodybuilders are disproportionately white males. White males have a muscle bulk advantage but the following disadvantages compared to West African males when it comes to bodybuilding competitions: higher subcutaneous fat (leading to less definition), fuller muscle bellies (leading to reduced separation between adjacent muscles) and lighter skin (reflects more light and doesn’t bring out shape minutiae). The skin color problem is easily addressed via a fake tan, but the other problems remain. Many really massive white bodybuilders never make it to the top because they just cannot get “cut” or defined enough. For instance, Greg Kovacs shown above was much more massive at his peak than Ronnie Coleman (and 3 inches taller, too), but never came close to winning a Mr. Olympia. Another bodybuilder shown above, Markus Ruhl, has competed at a bulk much greater than Ronnie Coleman’s in spite of being an inch shorter. West Africans tend to have more bone mass than whites, and so you can guess how much more muscular some of the white bodybuilders really are.
The evidence regarding testosterone levels is unlcear. The only testosterone-related study representative of the American population did not find a difference in testosterone levels between American white men and African-American men (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456570). In this study, if you look at the unadjusted values, it seems that African-American men tend to have slightly higher testosterone levels, but this was not statistically significant, and adjustment for age, BMI, smoking, alcohol consumption and physical activity revealed no statistically significant differences between these two groups. However, more of the testosterone was being converted to DHT (more potent than testosterone; it amplifies the effect of testosterone) in white men, and African-Americans had higher estradiol levels. This study did not report on the distribution of the sensitivity of the androgen receptor to testosterone in the groups, but there have been one or two reports that forms of androgen receptors that are the most sensitive to androgens such as testosterone are somewhat more prevalent among African-Americans (greater sensitivity translates to stronger effect of testosterone on target tissues). So a clear picture awaits more research.
Sub-Saharan Africans tend to have narrower hips than whites, but this appears to be an ethnic feature unrelated to testosterone levels. I am not aware of shoulder width differences among these two groups of men.
The evidence regarding penis length differences between whites and Africans is unclear (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17355371) (also this (http://www.enlargepenisguide.com/images/fig5.gif)) though I think it is slightly longer in the Africans.
The slender calf muscles, more precisely calf muscles with shorter bellies, are better suited to sprinting because of a greater proportion of fast-twitch fibers, but this also makes them less suitable for long-distance running.




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#17 | Submitted by Father Adil on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 12:59 | Has anyone seen this man - (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3537#comment-3537)
Has anyone seen this man - the music artist David Jordan? It looks as if he has an androgynous face.
YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh3wSMM_nbE)




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#18 | Submitted by Roy on Sun, 07/13/2008 - 16:37 | Population testosterone Rohrmann et al (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3540#comment-3540)
Evo and Proud:More on Rohrmann et al has taken this study apart.
The subject is central to Peter Frost's work and (as you say) peripheral to your superbly executed site, however I am a little surprised you did not notice some anomalies - testosterone increasing with age especialy - your too trusting.




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#19 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 19:44 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3545#comment-3545)
Roy: The Rohrmann et al. study on testosterone levels in a nationally representative sample of Americans reported values on a cross-sectional sample and Table 3, which reported the hormone levels by age (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/rohrmann.gif), listed values that were adjusted for age, body fat levels and other factors such as smoking, physical activity, etc. If they had reported unadjusted values, you would have seen an age-related decline. The results were:
Quote:


Total testosterone levels by age (tendency):White males: 20-44 > 45-69 or 70+
African-American males: 45-69 > 20-44 > 70+
Mexican-American males: 70+ > 20-44 > 45-69
If they look odd, keep in mind that you are looking at a cross-sectional sample and values adjusted for body fat levels, age and other factors.




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#20 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/15/2008 - 09:41 | Rohrmann et al rejoinder (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3549#comment-3549)
I think you are making the same point rebutted here in the comments at Evo and Proud
" Your referring to the linear regression model... (but)the serum concentrations of each age group as listed in table 3 'Serum concentrations of sex steriod hormones'.. are simply geometric means. Yes the age ajusted linear regression model failed to find a black-white difference. There are two reasons.First testosterone levels do not decline linearly with age. The decline is much steeper in the mid to late twenties and is steeper for blacks than for whites.
...the black-white difference is wider in the 45-69 year olds. That is to be expected if T levels are higher in 45-69 year old black men than in 20-44 year old black men. Both of these findings indicate that a disproportionate number of high testostrone individuals were removed from the younger age group."




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#21 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/15/2008 - 10:19 | Rohrmann et al rejoinder continued (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3550#comment-3550)
"The 'adjustment for age' in Table 3 is the breakdown of the data into three age groups.This point is explained in the Statistical Analysis section:
'We evaluated racial/ethnic differences in the hormones and SHBH (a)overall after adjusting for age and (b) within three age catagories reflecting hypothesized hormonal transitions though life; early adulthood(20-44 years old), mid-adulthood (45-69 years old), and late adulthood(70+ years old'.




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#22 | Submitted by Roy on Wed, 07/16/2008 - 17:51 | bodybuilding and an apology (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3554#comment-3554)
An authority on bodybuilding said blacks had an advantage over whites in the colour of their skin. Whites must agree, some of the them apply so much tanning solution they look like Al Jolson.
I commented on your citing Rohrmann in a superior tone, Erik that stuff is way over my head I can only understand P.Frosts conclusions, regression analysis ect. is beyond me. I forgot some people like to work things out for themselves and have the expertise to do so. Please don't waste time on this issue.




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#23 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 06:37 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3575#comment-3575)
Burt Lancaster has a lack of baldness, more importantly his lower lip is too big, how about replacing him with http://toddmecklem.com/Lawrence_Tierney_425.jpg




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#24 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 12:19 | Sexual selection for less threatening looks in men (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3576#comment-3576)
Sexual selection gives men relatively shorter upper faces for their breadth compared to females http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000710 I have seen some photos of the XYY Syndrome afflicted who had very long upper faces.




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#25 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 07/26/2008 - 17:15 | Photogenic confound (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3588#comment-3588)
Using leading men has a confound associated with it; photogenic people such as Leo and especialy Burt tend to have rather large faces and heads (eg Marilyn Monroe). Lancaster's facial skeleton is robust for sure, I just don't think that the masculine face should have thicker hair and a much bigger lower lip.




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#26 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 07/26/2008 - 18:04 | Gracilization in Northern Europeans (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3589#comment-3589)
Looking masculine could have the reproductively benificial rational of being attractive to women (and perhaps intimidating other men), but for much of evolutionary time men were in short supply especialy in northern Europe so one would expect this relaxed selection of men.
Relaxed sexual selection would result in men looking less masculine; being in short supply they did the choosing and the women were selected for attractiveness, which as you say is feminimity largely.
Given that north European men exibit gracilization how can you be so sure that this is pseudo-femininity. Might it just be the price paid for more feminine beauty in north Europe. The finger ratio for blonds is said to be higher.
Mather,F.,Manning,JT.,&Bundred,PE Evidence for blond hair as a correlate of high prenatal oestrogen prenal(unpublished)on Evo and Proud




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#27 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 14:24 | Walken - Tierney (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3603#comment-3603)
Christopher Walken might be a better choice for the least masculine face. Top catwalk models may be masculine but I don't think Leonardo DeCaprio could have made it as a top leading man if he looked effeminate. The most striking thing about him is his very short upper face which is appealing to women (see Sexual selection for less threatening looks in men) above. A study on female assesment of male face shape (Johnston ,Victor S. et al 2001) found that moderately masculine features are associated with an attractive , exciting, virile, healthy and protective man. When the shape became too masculine their perception turned negative and the man was seen to be threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish. (quoted from Fair Women, Dark men ) Laurence Tierney had a long upper face and conformed to the perceptions in real life. Maybe you could put find someone to replace DeCaprio




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#28 | Submitted by Typo on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3604#comment-3604)
Story, last paragraph, first line - "Unlikely women"




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#29 | Submitted by Roy on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 07:23 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3605#comment-3605)
My last word, I think it is a tactical mistake to use DeCaprio as a clear cut example of an effeminate face, it will hurt this sites credibility with many women who might agree with you about fashion models. Just as his broad jaw (which women like) makes his chin look more pointed, his large head makes his lower face look shorter than it is - until someone is beside him http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2005/gallery/beautifulcouples/12bundchen.jpg his taste is improving http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/nunung_2006/2322-bar_rafaeli04.jpg




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#30 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 07/31/2008 - 22:49 | Comment on Peter Frost (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3609#comment-3609)
Roy: If you are going to criticize some point, then don’t sign off as “evo and proud” because at first I assumed that you were describing yourself. Link to the criticism.
Here are the two links on testosterone and ethnicity by Peter Frost you were referencing –
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/03/testosterone-and-human-variation.html
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-on-rohrmann-et-al.html
The first link explains the context or why it is important for Peter Frost to maintain that West/Central Africans and African-Americans have higher testosterone levels than white men.
You said that you are not familiar with regression analysis. So how can you be so sure that Peter Frost has refuted my arguments? Let us look at his arguments.
Testosterone and white male – West African male differences
Frost has a strange interpretation of age-adjusted values. When someone talks about reporting values that have been adjusted for age, it means that all ages have been taken into consideration. Just because the authors choose to present the hormone level statistics by three broad age groups, it doesn’t mean that the hormone values are adjusted for membership in one of the three age groups. A related point by him is that “the black-white difference in t levels shrinks after 24 years of age, is gone by the early 30s, and seems to reverse at older ages,” but given that the literature has shown results all over the map and null finds, how can he use one study, using non-representative sampling, to insist on this statement so definitively? And the reason he brings out this point is because of his misinterpretation that the age adjustment was by broad age group rather than all ages. This mistake also prompts him to invoke [small] differences in median ages between the groups.
He ignores various kinds of adjustments on the data. For instance, let us say that over a 10-year period, an adult man reduces his average daily production of testosterone but also gains percentage body fat, and that the percentage increase in body fat is greater than the percentage decrease in testosterone. Thus, at the end of the 10-year period, this man would be producing more testosterone when adjusted for level of body fat even though his actual testosterone values have declined. And again, the sample is cross-sectional.
He does not address the higher estrogen levels in African-American men, something that numerous studies have reported. He also does not address higher AAG levels in white men, which is an indicator of greater conversion of testosterone to DHT (roughly conceptualize DHT as a more potent form of testosterone). He has pointed to higher rates of prostate cancer among African-American men as suggestive of higher testosterone levels but it is known that estrogens are a major culprit in up to half of prostate cancers (http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/100/11/815).
Rohrmann et al. indicated that they only had access to 1479 out of 1998 blood samples. Frost speculates that the unavailable samples had been removed for further study after they were found to have been infected by a herpes virus (sexually transmitted). Then he figured that the African-Americans, being more promiscuous, were more likely to have gotten infected, and inferred that their greater promiscuity was a result of higher testosterone levels i.e., the higher testosterone African-American men were disproportionately not analyzed. This is wild speculation, but more importantly it reflects Frost’s unfamiliarity with the literature.
Look at the following from Booth et al. (1999) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10196726). They examined testosterone levels and various behaviors in a random sample of 4,393 men that had served in the U.S. army during the years 1965 and 1971. The average age was 37 and the age range was 30-48. These men were representative of American men in the same age group. The first dataset indicates the percentage increase in the likelihood of sexually transmitted disease and promiscuity with increasing testosterone levels. The testosterone levels are reported in nanograms of testosterone per deciliter of blood (ng/dl). The great majority of men lie in the 300-1000 ng/dl range. We observe that with every 200 ng/dl increase in testosterone, the likelihood of having experienced a sexually transmitted infection increased by 16.5%, which is appreciable.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/booth.1.gif
Percentage increase in behavior(s) for a range of increase in testosterone levels in men.
But what proportion of the variation in sexually transmitted infections and promiscuity was accounted for by testosterone? Here is where regression analysis enters in, but you don’t have to worry about understanding it. Just look at the R2 values below.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/booth.2.gif
The R2 value explains the proportion of the variation in the dependent variable (behavior) accounted for by the variable(s) entered (age and testosterone in our case). For sexually transmitted infections, this value is a mere 0.006 or 0.6%, and for promiscuity this value is a mere 0.010 or 1%. In other words, testosterone is accounting for very little of the variance in promiscuity and sexually transmitted diseases in the sample (because too many factors affect these variables, which in turn suggests that it is a naïve assumption on Frost’s part to assume that greater promiscuity in African-Americans is due to higher testosterone levels). So even if we assume that all unavailable blood samples in the Rohrmann et al. study were removed due to herpes infection and that African-Americans were strongly overrepresented in the omitted samples, it wouldn’t follow that the omissions have prevented the average testosterone levels in African-American men from registering above the white average.
Frost has made weak arguments, and I will have more to say in other replies to your comments.




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#31 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 06:00 | Burt Lancaster vs. Leonardo DiCaprio (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3610#comment-3610)
Roy: You mentioned lack of baldness in Burt Lancaster. How is this relevant to masculinization? Male pattern baldness results from a combination of genetic susceptibility and androgens, but if genetic susceptibility is there then even men with low testosterone levels will become bald.
You also mentioned that Burt has thicker lower lips that Leonardo and hence is not a good example of a masculine male face but this point is irrelevant. Faces are shaped by many factors apart from sex hormones and it is the overall appearance that matters. A more overall masculine face is not necessarily more masculine looking on every count; it simply needs to look more masculine in the majority of feature comparisons.
You cited a study showing that “sexual selection gives men relatively shorter upper faces for their breadth compared to females,” better stated as men have wider face for the same upper face height, where upper face height is roughly the distance between the point where the forehead meets the nose and the upper lip. You cited this find because this is how Leonardo differs from Burt. The authors (Weston et al.; Biometric Evidence that Sexual Selection Has Shaped the Hominin Face (http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000710#pone.0000710.s007)) have chosen to present their data in a poor manner, and it is misleading. Their find can be summed up in this figure showing that men have wider faces but similar upper face height compared to women (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/weston.example.jpg). Their example contrasts a normal woman with an effeminate man. On the other hand, I have cited studies (see the feminine vs. masculine page) where masculinization makes the face shape narrower (example 1 (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/face.shape.gif), example 2 (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/laser.scan.1.jpg)). So why the difference? The studies that I cited used European individuals whereas the Weston et al. study used Southern African populations, and I wonder if this is relevant because the Khoi-San people appear facially less sexually dimorphic than Europeans, and sexual dimorphism of individual features is not necessarily similar across populations. But importantly, in the studies that I cited, the results are shown for face shape, which is evaluated after adjusting for face size, and face size was adjusted by computing centroid size (http://www.femininebeauty.info/marquardt-phi-mask-shape-comparison). But Weston et al. have a poor proxy for face size, namely the basicranial or basion-nasion length (shown by the distance between ba and n in this figure (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/basicranial.length.ba.n.gif)) rather than computing the centroid size from several such inter-landmark distances. In addition, even for the same face size, the basion-nasion length is increased with masculinization (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph.gif). Their statistics comprise of comparing how all combinations of the relative growths of two inter-landmark distances change from childhood to adulthood in men and women. So what they found is that the absolute width of the male face at the level of the cheekbones is greater than in the female whereas the absolute height of the upper face is similar. Since sexual selection acts on how all parts of the face fit together, it is clear that they should evaluate changes in a particular feature in relation to the rest of the face (e.g., face size as in centroid size). For instance, increasing the length of the lower jaw in men will make the face look overall narrower.
Another issue is that the upper face height metric used by the authors comprises of nose length + distance between nose tip and upper lip. In both illustrations that I have shown, where the comparisons keep face size constant, you can see that the distance between nose tip and upper lip increases with masculinization. One of these figures even shows that the region where the nose meets the forehead moves slightly upward with masculinization. The nose length comprises of the bony part plus the soft cartilage part. For the same face size, the cartilage part is longer and the bony part shorter in men, corresponding to the air intake part being larger in men (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph2.gif).
Leonardo DiCaprio is clearly much more effeminate than Burt Lancaster.
Leonardo DiCaprio’s appeal among many women results from his being cast as a romantic lead in big films such as the Titanic, and it would be naïve to believe that Hollywood simply caters to the demands or preferences of the public. For instance, there is a strong market for Christian-themed movies in the U.S., but how many such films do the big-budget Hollywood studios churn out? I would be surprised if very many feminine and attractive young adult women would be interested in men with the looks of Leonardo DiCaprio.
I have already mentioned that studies examining women’s preferences for facial masculinity in men reveal results all over the map: a preference for above average masculinization, normal faces or below average masculinization, but studies examining specific features such as chin length or the physique have found a preference for above average masculinization. There is bound to be an upper limit of masculinization beyond which appeal to women diminishes, but this article does not deal with this topic; it address how shape varies with varying levels of masculinization.
Typo: Thanks for pointing out the typo. I corrected it.




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#32 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 07:00 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3611#comment-3611)
Re 'signing off' - point taken.
(I am in the UK and have been reading this site since the first week it was up)
(Question)
How can I admit to ignorance of regression analysis yet not be convinced by your - logicaly valid - arguments about Rohrmann et al ?
(Answer)
The belevability of the conclusion indicates whether - given logical validity in the arguments - it was reached from true premises.
Its what I meant by saying you are too trusting, many people dislike studies showing certain racial differences, biological scientists doing the studies and providing your premises included.
Lower DHT in black men might result in more T being coverted to estrogen via aromatase, would rise with increased bodyfat? Estrogen promotes cancer - agreed.
The Booth study would not have the potential for unwelcome racial results being massaged and strikes at the heart of Peter Frost's "wild speculation", very well chosen study, you are indeed familiar with this area.
Here it comes:
It is not wild speculation to point out that Booth et al being done on men who had served in the US army, was done on a unrepresentative sampling http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/05/iq-interaction-between-race-and-age.html
US army induction tests.




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#33 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 12:34 | Booth Elimination of low IQ and possibly high T. Dr. Manning (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3612#comment-3612)
cont.
Higher IQ men are much less likely to be influenced by high T to engage in risky behaviour, need I say more.
John Manning from The Finger Book (2008)
"A Californian study of African-American and Caucasian students (Ellis,L and Nyborg,H 1992 Racial/Ethnic variations in Male Testosterone Levels: a Probable Contributer to Group Differences in Health Steroids 57:72-5) showed 15% higher testosterone concentrations in the former than the latter. This was after socio-economic status and lifestyle factors were taken into account."
Prenatal testosteronisation may not have much of a correlation with T levels in adulthood still, white men in north-east England have mean ratio of 0.98, the mean for Jamacan men 0.93.
The results of studies are all over the place; very well then show me one that has whites having 15% higher T levels than blacks.




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#34 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 13:54 | Baldness,Burts Big Hair (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3613#comment-3613)
I was trying to paraphrase an argument of Dr. Frost's I altered the meaning by using "lack of baldness" instead of "thick hair" which is what I meant. Baldness is very relevant to masculisation in a negative sense though. Bald men are seen as less assertive and total lack of baldness is seen as a sign of aggressiveness in my opinion. Baldness is said to be related to high DHT and perhaps estrogen, it often goes with thick body hair which you think relevant in the context of masculinisation and muscularity at another site where you also mention scalp hair worls. From 16th cent. skinhead German mercenaries to Mohawk Indians to Marines and cage fighters short hair is associated with intimidation. Monks shaved the top (the very opposite of the Mohawk) to simulate baldness; so you are rightbaldess is
Women have thicker hair than men and thicker hair diameter,judging by the height of his hairstyle Burt inclines towards the feminine condition in both these




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#35 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 14:39 | Erik knows his stuff (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3614#comment-3614)
Burts face is far more masculine overall, his lower lip can't take that away - point taken
(I am not carping, I admit you are right I just am curious; if someone looking like Burt had lips like a young Sophia Loren (unlikely as that would be) could that alone make him rather effeminate.
You seem to have destroyed Weston et al I will study your criticism carefuly it spells out some things I didn't get from looking at the face shape illustrations.
I knew the Khoi-San have almost the broadest cheekbones in the world but I forgot the ancestral population had a wide range.
Erik consider giving references for what you say on this site many people will assume you have less to back it up than you ovoiusly do




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#36 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 21:47 | Sexual selection in Northern Europe (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3615#comment-3615)
Roy: You cited an unpublished study that reported blond hair as a correlate of exposure at high prenatal estrogen levels (inferred from 2D:4D) to suggest that the finer facial features of Northern European men might reflect reduced masculinization. Since this is an unpublished study, I don’t know whether the higher 2D:4D (more feminine) was found in [British] men or women or both, but let us look at what published studies say.
The first one is an international comparison.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/2d.4d.ethnic.gif
Population (P = Poland; S = Spain; E = England; H = Hungary [EH = ethnic Hungarians, HG = Hungarian Gypsies]; G = Germany; Z = Zulu; J = Jamaica; F = Finland) and sex differences (f = female and m = male) in mean 2D:4D with standard error bars). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10828555
In this study, Finnish men had the lowest 2D:4D among the white men and all men sampled, and the male-female gap was greatest among the Finnish.
In another study on some European populations, Swedish men had the lowest 2D:4D, Swedish women the highest 2D:4D, and the male-female gap was greatest among the Swedes (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/2d.4d.ethnic2.gif) (the Swedish/London sample included Swedes born in Sweden and living in London; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16350659).
Another study on a Lithuanian sample found 2D:4D ratios lower than in most white/other populations and did not report higher 2D:4D values in individuals with lighter hair: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18041401
An odd find has been from Denmark, where the male 2D:4D was higher than in all other reported populations, including values higher than in women in most populations: http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/11/3109
The 2D:4D literature in general is not very good and one shouldn’t make much of an individual study here and there. Finger lengths are affected by many factors apart from sex hormones, and some men are going to have higher 2D:4D than many women in spite of being more masculine than women in general just as the typical man who is shorter than the majority of women still has much higher testosterone levels than the majority of women.
Nevertheless, the general find is that Nordic men, except for the odd Danish find, have the lowest 2D:4D in Europe, and two studies show the greatest male-female gaps among the Scandinavians.
This literature should be seen in light of other evidence. Northern European men are on average taller and more muscular than other European men. The most massive white bodybuilders and white men who dominate strong man championships are usually Northern European. If you look at the history of warfare within Europe, the general picture is one of the dominance of Northern Europeans. Defeat for Northern Europeans has typically been at the hands of other Northern Europeans (e.g., the Northern European-derived Franks from France, led by Charlemagne, defeating the Saxons of Germany). The Roman patricians were of Northern European descent. The nobility in Classical Greece was of Northern European descent (Northern Europeans comprised 25% of the Greeks then; reported by J. Lawrence Angel, and he documented from skeletal remains that the Nordics in ancient Greece were taller and more muscular than other European types there). So even some famous periods of Southern European military dominance had Northern Europeans as the people primarily responsible. Then there is the centuries-long occupation of the Balkans by the Ottoman Turks, but a big reason for their success was the Janissaries, their army, which comprised of kidnapped European boys raised as Muslim and turned against the Europeans, but they still couldn’t advance north of Austria.
So it is unlikely that the finer facial features of Northern European men reflect greater feminization. Selection for more feminine women doesn’t mean that the men will get more feminized also. The requirements for hunting large game and fighting for resources in Northern Europe would have selected for masculine men. After all why was there a shortage of men? Because the men were disproportionately dying while hunting big game. Even if harsh conditions prevented men in Northern Europe from supporting multiple wives, this doesn’t mean that the better off men did not get some on the side or that the women who did not have much of a choice but to settle with a less desirable man because there weren’t enough men around didn’t try to get their children secretly fathered by more desirable men.
Frost talks about the higher prevalence of polygyny in Africa, but what does polygyny do? If some men are taking multiple wives then some men are ending up with no women. So, many men will try to ensure that their wives are not taken by higher status men, i.e., they will tend to restrict how much of their women they expose in public. Of course, the men with multiple wives/harems will try to prevent lower status men from secretly dallying with their women. And, if there are plenty of men around, then women will be more restrictive with their sexuality. This will tend to lead toward the situation you see in the Middle East (extreme case). How conducive is this system to strong sexual selection? The women have little choice and the men don’t need to develop myriad abilities that one would normally need to court desirable women (obviously because the women will not be doing much choosing); all the men need is wealth/power to convince a prospective father in-law. One is even looking at war/treachery to acquire wealth/resources or at worst stealing other men’s women.
A variant of a polygynous system is that few people are married, one is expected to be faithful while married, but unmarried individuals are free to have sex with multiple unmarried partners, and only a minority of well-off men get to have multiple wives. In this system, most men and most women get a shot at reproduction and no sex has a large number of individuals that face death without reproduction. So no especially strong sexual selection here.
Now what happens in Northern Europe? Men die disproportionately while hunting big game. So the surviving men are being selected for masculinization. There is an excess of women. The women are forced to be less restrictive with their sexuality because an interested but rejected man will simply move onto another woman. The men are not especially motivated to restrict the sexual opportunities available to women because there are so many of them. The only advantage of restricting women’s sexuality for men is increasing the certainty that who they think are their biological children are indeed so, but this comes at the great cost of undermining one’s sexual pleasure. Diminishing one’s sexual pleasure by restricting women’s sexuality when there are plenty of women around doesn’t make any sense, and no red-blooded man would be so inclined. So the women have full partner selection choice, even though limited, but no matter how limited the choice, women will be more selective than men in a comparable situation. They simply have to, given their limited childbirth capacity. This is a crucial point. Even with a shortage of men, women will still be significantly selective, and the men are of course being selective because there are so many women to choose from, and the men are typically not in a position to support multiple wives. Choice for women means that they are free to try to secretly get their children fathered by men more desirable than their husbands and not come close to risking assault/death in the process. How can you beat this when it comes to strong sexual selection under natural conditions?




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#37 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 21:59 | IQ, 2D:4D, baldness (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3616#comment-3616)
Roy: Your criticism of the Booth et al. study using American soldiers is that it was done on an unrepresentative sample. The authors compared numerous demographic characteristics of their sample with those of men in the general population in the same age range and found them to be similar. Besides, the sample is from 1965-1971 but you cited an article by Peter Frost who is mentioning the shortcomings of a decades-earlier sample. The major shortcoming being addressed by Frost is the intelligence distribution, which is not an issue in the Booth study. Frost reiterates that the IQ cutoff for joining the U.S. army, presumably 90, eliminated from consideration the majority of African-American men. However, during 1965-1971, American men aged 30-48 were overwhelmingly white, including in the army. Additionally, the relationship between testosterone and IQ is at best weak. Hence, the results of the regression analysis presented would be unaffected by including lower IQ African-Americans. Even if it were affected, the effect would be so small that the conclusion would not change.
You are interested in a study showing white men having 15% higher testosterone than sub-Saharan African men. Frost himself has cited some, but he dismisses them because they involve sub-Saharan African populations who are not sufficiently masculine or are older populations. So if Frost is going to pick his masculine sub-Saharan populations and ignore the rest, then it is only fair that I be allowed to pick the more masculine European male populations rather than all whites. I pick Nordics. You mentioned a study where the English men had a 2D:4D of 0.98 and Jamaican men had a 2D:4D of 0.93. I mentioned a study where Finnish men had a 2D:4D of 0.93. This ratio reflects prenatal testosterone exposure, which is not strongly related to testosterone levels in adulthood, as you have cited. Prenatal testosterone exposure is a combination of self production and maternal contribution. Finnish women are more feminine than West African women and hence to arrive at a 2D:4D similar to that of the most masculine West African populations, Finnish male fetuses are producing higher testosterone levels than the West African male fetuses. In reality it is not clear how comparable cross-ethnic 2D:4D comparisons are and anyone familiar with the literature on 2D:4D ratio would know better than to make much of individual studies, but if I am dealing with Frost or you then I might as well use similar reasoning. Heck, I can even go ahead and argue that the 0.95 2D:4D in Swedish men is indicative of high fetal testosterone production on their part comparable to the Finns’ and higher than the Jamaicans’ because Swedish women are more feminine than Finnish women and are raising the Swedish male average even though the fetal testosterone production is similar.
Regarding baldness, again, it is a non-issue. I already mentioned that male-typical androgen levels are required for male pattern baldness, and levels in the effeminate range of the human male are enough, and hence saying that DHT is a culprit is basically reiterating this point, but the main issue is the genetic susceptibility to baldness. Unless you have evidence that the majority of instances of genetic susceptibility to baldness not involving androgen production are related to masculinization or a more manly look, don’t bring baldness or hair thickness into the picture. My discussion of a combination of baldness, body hair and muscularity issues has been in the context of an odd mix of hypermaculine and hypomaculine features in the same individual, not in terms of a straightforward judgment of a man’s masculinity.
If Burt Lancaster has Sophia Loren’s lips, he would look odd but still not effeminate. Regarding the citations of the figures I displayed in reference to Weston et al., I mentioned that they are taken from the feminine vs. masculine page. Look there.
Anyway, don’t waste my time with these issues. They are not relevant to this site.




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#38 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 08/02/2008 - 11:06 | Sweden and Hoes (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3617#comment-3617)
Reading your responses is time well spent, so I rattled your cage about N. European psuedo-feminisation in men (It was genuinely my point of veiw, it seemed plausible from what I knew). I don't think you can take umbrage at this observation which is relevant to this site; Swedish women are the most beautiful in the world. (Even Swedish female bodybuilders juiced to the gills look more feminine than their fellow competitors) Swedish women are in demand all over the world as models, non Swedish men of the highest status men often marry them. Sexual selection is the obvious explaination (counterbalanced by some kind of selection for men as you say) perhaps we might find some support for the expectation of a higher ratio of Y-chromosome to X-chromosome variability
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15978763 Irish women do not seem to be in as much demand http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/2005/12/y-chromosome-variation-and-irish.html
In Pakistan the houses with the smallest highest windows (where the women are) belong to the wealthiest families advertising the fact that their women are the most secluded. (incidently, marrying cousins is a common practice in the middle east). As you say this can only have a bad effect on the quality of both sexes though Razib on gnxp did not thank you for this observation. Marrage practices explain a lot and vary a lot even within those called polygyny As I understand it Dr. Frosts explaination for relaxed sexual selection of women in some African populations involves on hoe farming so you have a point, sexual selection for women would not automaticaly loosen selection for men.




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#39 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 11:31 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3622#comment-3622)
"Don't waste my time with these issues. They are not relevant to this site"
Quite so, its what you should have said to Dot when he asked about the T. levels of black men, that or ignored him. Please bear in mind; the less relevant an issue is to this site the more likely someone might think you're wrong about it and say so.
If you wander off your turf expect a challenge.
Comments on Decaprio, face shape studies and gracilization are as relevant to this site as this page is, if it's a wasting your time perhaps it you ought to be taking it down. I admit to going on a bit - sorry - I was thinking out loud. The site design encourages comments. You answered all my points. Although I made them forcefully I didn't want them to be true, I don't look like DeCaprio. Anyway, thank you for sharing your knowledge.




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#40 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 13:39 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3623#comment-3623)
"Don't waste my time with these issues.They are not relevant to this site"
Quite so, but you ought to have told this to Dot when he asked about Testosterone levels ect. in black men, that or ignored him. Please bear in mind that the less relevant an issue is to your site the more likely someone will think you are wrong about it and say so.
If you wander off your turf expect a challenge.




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#41 | Submitted by Ali on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 21:56 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3634#comment-3634)
"Sub-Saharan Africans tend to have narrower hips than whites, but this appears to be an ethnic feature unrelated to testosterone levels"
Yes it is because non-Africans (especially Europeans and East Asians) tend to have bigger brained babies and thus demand broader pelvises from their mothers. Women tend to have wider pelvises compared to men due to childbirth.




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#42 | Submitted by Mike on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 15:31 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4083#comment-4083)
If you removed all of the muscle from Dorian Yates' body, he has a worse shoulder to waist ratio than tom cruise. Yates' steroid induced muscle mass is tricking your visual system. BTW, Cruise does not have an 'effeminate' body LOL. It is not as masculine as Mike Tyson, but it is actually MORE masculine than Yates if you compare the actual skeleton.




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#43 | Submitted by Sally on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 23:16 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4249#comment-4249)
Why not put a picture of yourself up for us all to decide on what side of the scale you sit "Erik"?




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#44 | Submitted by jim on Thu, 01/22/2009 - 10:31 | Kudos in general - great stuff Erik!! (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4522#comment-4522)
I came to the site looking for Olivia art. What I found was far more than I could have imagined.
As a former bodybuilder in the the 1980-1983 era (then a back injury), in the pre-growth hormone stage
(when it had to be sucked from cadaver pituitaries - and some were dying of CJ / mad cow as a result!) -
and even after, when people didn't learn the IGF connection, I found your postings above to not only be
EXCELLENT observations, but even observations I, myself, had not made, in evaluating competition, at the
time and again in 1993 - when I made a "comeback" to the extent that injuries would permit - with a new
round of androgens (and again tweaked the old injury and took myself out!).
There is much to look at and compare - and even the rules change with regard to judging, in order to keep
interest in the sport high - (too many repetitive wins is not good, when the personalities are not at all like
Ahnold!). And so you have a change that means Coleman OUT, Cutler IN.
All in all - I agree with you about the masculine aspect of things -- Gaspari was the youngest Mr. America - at 19,
chances are real that he suffered epiphyseal closure much earlier - and that changed his shoulder width dramatically
for those final growing years. Yates only real negative was the insanity of a tattoo - but again, also no personality,
something critical to a "sport" like bodybuilding.
People - this site and Erik's commentary on the whole range of anthro questions are not about putting anyone down,
they are about observing. Even when Lou Ferrigno made his big comeback - weighing nearly 75 pounds more than he did
in his 1975 contest with Arnold (75 pounds of pure muscle at under 2% fat!) - he didn't place in the FIRST round of Olympia.
He was OUT. He was more monstrous at 345 pounds (and 6'5") than he had ever been.
I like your use of study, statistics, references, etc. Really - for a hobby site, and attributing so much to art - for which I know
absolutely nothing about (in terms of anatomical study for painting/drawing), you provoked a great deal of thought and
I did send a link to someone I know with a Fine Arts degree - because as she gets back into creating - a long lost love of hers,
there is no such thing as "too much information" - and every opinion has the value of creating a new pathway of thought.
(unless it's just a moron posting!)
So, again - my many thanks! You made this a VERY interesting Thursday Morning!!!
:-D




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#45 | Submitted by orlon on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 13:47 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5148#comment-5148)
interesting, open-minded perspective; more examples might be helpful.




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#46 | Submitted by Godis on Tue, 03/24/2009 - 04:48 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5194#comment-5194)
Ok Erik,
All those men look really gross. No woman wants a man like that, trust me! Dorian Yates does not look like a Roman God, rolls eye. Facial structure and body structure, maybe he does look like a Roman God. BUT, Roman Gods were never built to look like they were going to explode. The muscle is revolting... no woman wants a man that muscular.
Let me post some photos of men that women generally find attractive:
First of all, a man that is slightly darker is always a bit more charming. Ever heard of tall, dark and handsome? However, lighter men are attractive as well, but I think women and men alike associate lighter hair,skin,eyes, etc. with greater feminity, even though it doesn't relate to hormone levels.
This guy is muscular, but its not too much! not for me at least... however for some girls it MAY be too much.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/ph_jt/pictures/abercrombie.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/guy%20model)
Another muscular attractive guy. Honestly, if it gets more muscular than this, the attractiveness goes down...
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s324/VickyLovesAnimals123/022-1.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/guy%20model)
This guy doesn't have that much muscle. However, he is bulky and wide shouldered. This is more attractive than someone who is bulky and has a shit load of muscle. His face has feminine features, but he is attractive nonetheless. In fact I find that feminine features such as slightly fuller lips, bigger eyes, etc. on a man attract women even more. After all they want to see those attractive qualities in their children boy or girl don't they?
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/_kiyuu_/StevenStrait15.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
Same guy, only thinner:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/luminoir8/Steven_Strait.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/kwikkat/Hotties/steven_strait.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
What would help Steven straights appearance? A slightly finer nose from the frontal view, while side profile is alright
Paul Walker is extremely attractive:
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/Jareth63/Paul_Walker.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/paul%20walker)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e224/Nicoleo527/paul_walker11.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/paul%20walker)
Are you getting the drift?
The men I picked I find very attractive. However, for example some women find even leaner less muscular, or men with a less masculine build even more attractive. I know absolutley NO women that like overly muscular overly masculine guys. This is the truth:
That men on the masculine side of the scale are considered more attractive, however once that scale goes to far a man on the feminine side would do better even
Same with women: A woman on the feminine scale is more attractive, but once she gets too feminine no one finds her attractive anymore.
Besides, the whole feminine masculine scale in my opinion doesn't have to do as much with attraction as you claim. A woman with nice features that isn't particularly feminine can be more attractive than a feminine woman with boring, bland, or just bad features. And many times even androgynous women can look good, is it rarer? Yes, but not possible.
And also we all like to see feminine qualities in both males and females. If a man has big eyes, or pouty lips, etc. That is attractive to a woman. Similarly if a woman has a combination body type, such as an hourglass/athletic type, this may be more attractive. This woman is curvy, has a small waist and large breasts, however, her shoulders may be a tiny wider and her legs or something more athletic. Who cares? This woman can be very athletic and stunning at the same time.
Let me give you an example:
Keeley Hazel
You haven't responded to my questions about her by the way. Anyways, she has huge shoulders, but an amazing hourglass figure with amazing breasts? However, she looks better than most of the feminine women you post up that are moe feminine than her? Why? Is it because she looks stronger and healthier due to the fact that she has better defintion combined with feminine features such as hips,large breasts, and a small waist? Yes. This is more attractive because she looks better made, healthier, stronger, while maintaining her feminine attributes. This will beat out any other just plain feminine girl.




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#47 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 07:25 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5251#comment-5251)
Mike: The article is about not being tricked by muscle mass. I am not being fooled by the muscle mass of Dorian Yates. Tom Cruise does not have an effeminate physique in terms of muscle mass. Tom Cruise has made an effort to work out and attain decent muscle mass, but take a look at his shoulder width, especially in relation to hip width.
Godis: The article is not about what women find attractive in men. It is about the subtlety of masculinity-femininity in men.
You said, “Besides, the whole feminine masculine scale in my opinion doesn't have to do as much with attraction as you claim.” The evidence suggests, cited within this site, that in the absence of physical defects, the extent of femininity is the most powerful correlate of beauty in women for a given ethnic group. I agree that “a woman with nice features that isn’t particularly feminine can be more attractive than a feminine woman with boring, bland, or just bad features.” Nothing within this site refutes this notion and the site also offers plenty of evidence in its favor. Why don’t you read enough of this site before leaving comments?
There is nothing for me to say regarding your bringing in Keeley Hazell. I have passed her as an attractive woman, which doesn’t mean that all aspects of her looks have to be in the feminine range.




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#48 | Submitted by man with a prom... on Fri, 06/26/2009 - 05:27 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5758#comment-5758)
those with excess abdominal fat even if they are okay elsewhere (this is a diseased constitution)
What do you mean by diseased constitution?
Also, with regard to supermodels. Gay men or lower testosterone males predominantly control the fashion industry. Those type of men are more likely to be attracted to, or simply tp prefer for asthetic reasons, more masculine or androgenous female faces.
Also, do you think there is any truth to the idea that higher testosterone results in the asymmetry of facial features?
"Higher IQ men are much less likely to be influenced by high T to engage in risky behaviour, need I say more"
- Does testosterone influence intelligence? Does more testosterone make you dumber?
- Or, as is known higher testosterone makes men more likely to engage in risky, spur of the moment, and stupid behaviour. Does higher intelligence actually reduce the chances of this due to the greater ability of the man in question to reflect on the potential consequences of his actions?
In short - Men with high T and high intelligence do not do the same stupid things that men with high T and low intelligence do?
What sort of body type would you consider John Wayne with his wide shoulders and wide hips?
"When the shape became too masculine their perception turned negative and the man was seen to be threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish. (quoted from Fair Women, Dark men )" -
I think this is the failure of the survey method. Remember, women find bikers, criminals and dangerous and abusive men hot, yet will never admit to it. In fact they might not know themselves what they are attracted to. It may be the greater levels of attraction and masculinity they are attracted to DESPITE the bad behaviourof the man. Ergo women are not attracted to assholes, per se, but are attracted to highly testosteronised or masculinised men and these types are more likely to engage in asshole behaviour. Unfortunately I have no evidence for this besides what I've seen. Any study trying to understand this would be better off trying to study a woman's actions and not listen to her words.
On a related note, its well known that prison populations are full of men who are highly testosteronised or masculinised. No one would call these men pretty or attractive yet women seem to love them. All this boils down to is basically, women are attracted to high levels of testosterone. High levels of testosterone lead to higher levels of aggression and more risk taking behaviour, which as I said before, means women are attracted to men who display threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish behaviour but it is not this behaviour that attracts them. It is the high levels of masculinity they are attracted to despite these negative personality traits. So of course they will give these men bad ratings, but still jump into bed with them.
Concerning big hair, baldness and mohawks: Baldness is a sign of intimidation in some men. Consider bikers, gang members and so forth who shave their heads. Consider also soldiers have very short hair.
Are fish lips and mono-brows examples of masculinisation?
Also, is there any truth to the idea that high testosterone lowers the immune system?




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#49 | Submitted by BigT on Sun, 07/19/2009 - 02:59 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5901#comment-5901)
High testosterone improves facial symmetry in men. High testosterone also strengthens the immune system.




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#50 | Submitted by Gass on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 10:13 | masculine vs feminie (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5913#comment-5913)
Dorian Yates is ugly, I have a better body without exercising.
I measured my index ratio, it is high (1.01) - effeminate, but I have wide shoulders narrow waist, narrow hips and good muscles, I was somewhat effeminate and cowardly as child then turned 180 after puberty does that mean I have been exposed to little testosterone in the womb but high testosterone after puberty? What does that say about my penis size I have no clue ? BTW my penis is very straight. What does that say about my sexual performance ? I have been told I'm amazing but I could have been lied to so as not to be hurt.
In this linkkkkkkkk (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1559906)it is writter that high prenatal testosterone contributes to robustness more that masculinity, white pubertal testosterone contributed to masculinity more that robustness.
Considering women, I heard that high testosterone women have higher libidos, more prone to cheating, more promiscuous and prefer masculine men, low testosterone/high estrogen women are the contrary of the above.
BTW this Swedish man is so beautiful I love this pic




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#51 | Submitted by Gass on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 10:53 | Attractiveness (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5914#comment-5914)
Here many suggest the femininity is the ace of base when it comes to attractiveness and a post by Erik said there was a research that indicated this. Can you post the research? This is weird because I've always believed and witnessed that proportionality and symmetry come before femininity when it comes to attractiveness in a woman and most guys would pick a beautiful child faced woman (child features are attractive in women) over a plain feminine face and body.




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#52 | Submitted by Krizalid on Sat, 07/25/2009 - 13:54 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5933#comment-5933)
What you mean by 'child features'? thats just lack of prominent zygomatic bones, especially the zygomatic process.




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#53 | Submitted by LazyLeo on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 10:46 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/6868#comment-6868)
Erik I've noticed this dimorphism throughout my life, yet seems to contradict pop culture's ideal beauty with both men and women. I'm curious is the cheek bones higher along the vertical plane or are they shorter with the brow reaching lower and nose reaching longer to give the cheek a high effect also, about the arches, if the arches are placed higher then would this cause elevation of the ears and a different mandible/maxilla relationship in regards to bite. I would love to see a frontal comparison of masculine and feminine skull shapes. Any links would be appreciated. Thanks keep up the good work.




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#54 | Submitted by Igor on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 04:59 | Your theories are pure demagoguery. (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/6905#comment-6905)
There is absolutely no such thing as biologically defined beauty.
As you should know or promptly ignored in favor of racial biases, beauty is a cultural fenomenon and genetic diferentiation between sexes varies naturally among diferent generations. To say otherwise is (ironically enough) to contribute to the real underappreciation of beauty.




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#55 | Submitted by D. Rigby on Tue, 02/02/2010 - 08:45 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7897#comment-7897)
my body shape is more like a womans than a man,I`m 5ft-7ins tall I weigh just 10stone my chest measures 33ins,my waist is 27ins but my hips are 38ins, 11ins more than my waist,and 5ins more than my chest.I`m not as physically strong as most men,Ialso have an exceptionally tiny penis and testicals,and most men and even some women can lift me off the ground and carry me as though I were a small child but I cannot lift them an inch off the ground.The women say they find me to be very effeminate.




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#56 | Submitted by Bill on Wed, 02/03/2010 - 20:39 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7898#comment-7898)
What can you guys say about me??? Levels of androgen, handling of chemicals, masculine/feminine features, etc.!
I'm curious.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7430/twodogs.jpg
Ignore the incredibly distracting cute puppies.




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#57 | Submitted by mary on Thu, 02/04/2010 - 17:57 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7900#comment-7900)
The puppies are quite masculine:)




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#58 | Submitted by Randy on Wed, 03/10/2010 - 02:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/8632#comment-8632)
Very interesting site. Keep up the good work. BTW, some comments seem a bit dense.




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#59 | Submitted by forgot on Tue, 06/07/2011 - 18:51 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/30527#comment-30527)
"Unlike in women, it is harder to judge how masculine a man is because of the ease with which less masculine men can pack on more muscle mass given current technology, and the phenomenon of some men with a mix of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics."
No kidding! I'll give it a try, though . . .
Am I correct in judging:
Daniel Craig to be overall masculine in appearance?
Pierce Brosnan, Alan Rickman, David Boreanaz, Clint Eastwood, and Brad Pitt to be average overall in terms of masculinity/femininity?
Hayden Christensen, Ewan Mcgregor, Jensen Ackles, Alain Delon, Robert Pattinson, Taylor Lautner, and Edward Furlong to be in the effeminate range?
Ted Danson to have a hyper-masculine face? (Couldn't find any clear pics of his body.)
Sean Connery to have a masculine face + normal body?




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#60 | Submitted by a on Tue, 01/03/2012 - 23:21 | Godis misses the point yet (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/32871#comment-32871)
Godis misses the point yet again.




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#61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, 01/26/2012 - 01:49 | Question - (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33076#comment-33076)
Question -
Erik, you've said that Northern Europeans disproportionately have the most feminine looking and also the most masculine looking women. Does this entail that they also disproportionately have the most masculine looking and also the most effeminate looking men?




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#62 | Submitted by :-) on Fri, 01/27/2012 - 10:11 | 61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33080#comment-33080)
61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, 01/26/2012 - 01:49 | Question -
Question -
''Erik, you've said that Northern Europeans disproportionately have the most feminine looking and also the most masculine looking women.''
Erik never stated that. Erik stated Europeans women are Overall MORE feminine looking not the MOST feminine looking. There is a huge difference between the two statements. Europeans may have a higher percentage of feminine looking women (women classifiable as feminine not taking into consideration how feminine they are on the femininisy scale) though within that percentage of feminine looking women they may have less/least on the 'most' or higher end of the femininity scale but due to having a high percentage overall of women on the femininity scale they may be classifiable as overall more feminine looking comapred to the overall of another culture but not the 'most' feminine looking women. Another culture may have a higher percentage of women on the higher end of the femininity scale than the europeans but due to a smaller percentage of feminine looking women in general on the scale of feminity there overall average on the feminine scale doesnt balance out as good as the europeans would, so there overall average on the femininity scale would not be as high as the europeans though they may still possess a higher percentage of the 'most' feminine looking women than the europeans. Thats is what Erik is stating. He is not and has never stated that european women are the 'most' feminine. In fact alot of what he has stated has not been understood correctly.




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#63 | Submitted by Zaz on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 22:00 | Bullshit (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33134#comment-33134)
What's that bullshit that you've just written? A BIG population with more feminine looking women necessarily has the most feminine women, unless there's a different magnitude of standard deviation in femininity in the two populations which is unlikely. Because outcomes diverge to the values expected by probability laws when sample numbers are big, and in this case we are talking about populations




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#64 | Submitted by Lady G (http://ideasforabetter/) on Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:40 | digit ratios (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33216#comment-33216)
I'm fascinated with this topic as I am a queer woman with a very low digit ratio (.94), and some very masculine facial features (heavier brow ridge, eastern euro cheekbones). I was prowling the web in search of more inspiration for my blog, and found this site. I've also got some other interesting stuff in my blog regarding gender and the way the lines can be blurred, coincidentally.
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/10/famous-fingers.html
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/10/more-on-gender.html
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/11/more-on-gender-identity-really-awesome.html
There seems to be evidence that biological characteristics are also related to personality and psychology (for instance, low 2d Ratios in both men and women are related to more aggressiveness, especially in men.)




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#65 | Submitted by orlando on Mon, 03/05/2012 - 14:42 | hello (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33246#comment-33246)
hello
do you think i have masculine face or feminine face? too masculine or just average? or maybe on the feminine side?
I think I have high broad cheekbones but my jaw is weak, maybe because I still have fat on my face, but on this page says that the mandible doesnt have to do with masculinity
http://oi41.tinypic.com/98ytk8.jpg




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#66 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:15 | Orlando: The mandible is (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33266#comment-33266)
Orlando: The mandible is affected by masculinizing and feminizing factors. You must have misunderstood something.
Your face is masculine. Don’t let the cheekbones confuse you as they reflect part-Indian and utlimately Asiatic ancestry; ancestry aspects mostly do not involve population differences in masculinity-femininity.




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#67 | Submitted by orlando on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:12 | Yeah i know the cheekbones is (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33339#comment-33339)
Yeah i know the cheekbones is common in natives and south asians, im mestizo ... i mentioned because i read that high broad cheekbones gives the person a more masculine and aggresive look this is why many female models look masculine, because of cheekbones, also all the bad guys in movies have high cheekbones ... i like to have them, makes me look exotic so to speak lol but i still have fat on my face so they dont look that defined female models with hi




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#68 | Submitted by Woodward on Wed, 05/02/2012 - 11:35 | I think the most genetically (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33613#comment-33613)
I think the most genetically gifted are Mulattos or (half black, half white) because they have the full muscle thickness most usually from some sort of alpinic european descent and the "cut-ness" or muscle seperation from their black side. The reigning Mr Olympia is mulatto 5'9, 250lbs Phil Heath @ 2% bf. He looks like afro-germanic with a predominately alpine body structure....




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#69 | Submitted by Staci on Sat, 06/30/2012 - 13:35 | I think you should have (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33848#comment-33848)
I think you should have picked a better example to illustrate the type of male beauty that women like. Most women find hiper-muscular men unappealing. The physical male ideal for women is a man athletic muscled but not extremely as bodybuilders. We prefer male fitness models type. Men of your photos also show a low rating of facial attractiveness. I'll use an example more appropriate prototype of male beauty.
I posted the pictures of fitness model Marc Fitt. Great body and a very attractive face.
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=423473_371653389518133_353297390_n.jpg)
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=IMG-20120416-WA0007.jpg)
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=563946_487462664603871_1745896677_n.jpg)




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#70 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Sun, 07/01/2012 - 18:33 | Staci: The article is not (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33850#comment-33850)
Staci: The article is not about illustrating what kind of men are liked by women, but about issues in evaluating the masculinity of men. Some of these issues are best clarified by using examples of extremely muscular men.




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#71 | Submitted by Marija on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:10 | Not quite clear (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/34000#comment-34000)
Erik, I don't really understand where you concluded from that Swedish or Northern European women are on average more feminine than Asian or Black women?
Do they have higher estrogen levels than Asian or Black women?




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#72 | Submitted by Marija on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:40 | Erik, (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/34001#comment-34001)
Erik,
You say:
"As in women, it is important to look at multiple characteristics in men to assess how masculine/feminine they are".
"Finnish women are more feminine than West African women" "Swedish women are more feminine than Finnish women"
Do you have a source for this, or is this based on your personal views/observations/opinions?
I am very interested in how you got to this conclusion,
~a Dutch female

http://www.femininebeauty.info/masculinization-feminization-in-men

[natina]

http://www.femininebeauty.info/masculinization-feminization-in-men

Feminization and masculinization in the looks of men

Submitted by Admin on Mon, 11/12/2007 - 05:01This topic doesn’t really belong at this site, but some readers have wanted me to write on this issue, to be fair if not anything else. I agree that it is fair to also address men at some length. I mulled including the following contents in a zipped file for anyone interested, but decided that it is best to post it online. Before I begin, I wish to say that just as I have nothing against masculinized women, I have nothing against effeminate/feminized men.
The feminine vs. masculine page (http://www.femininebeauty.info/fem.vs.masculine.htm) within this site extensively addresses skull and face shape variation resulting from masculinization and feminization. There is no need to repeat it here; some pictures will suffice. The reader can also download the demo version of facegen modeler (http://www.facegen.com/) and see, from multiple angles, how increasing masculinization alters the face. The demo version of this program allows one to do everything except for exporting to external 3D formats and displaying the ‘SI’ logo on the forehead.
The following example is an easy contrast between an effeminate face and a masculine one.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/leo.and.burt.jpg
Fig. 1. Leonardo DiCaprio (left) and Burt Lancaster.
Confounds in judging the masculinity of men

As in women, men’s masculinity should be judged from overall looks. One should beware of the following issues.
Gracilization as pseudo-feminization
Fineness of facial features should not be confounded with feminization. Northern European men often have fine facial features as in the following Swedish male, but his overall face shape is clearly masculine.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/swede2.jpg
Fig. 2. A man from Sweden.
Bizarre combination of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics
There are some scenarios in men that are difficult to find if not non-existent in women. For example, the following individual has a masculine overall face shape but an effeminate body. His body is not effeminate because he is short, but because of its shape. He is not overall describable as either masculine or feminine/effeminate or even normal.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/tom.cruise.jpg
Fig. 3. Tom Cruise.
If one had a few masculine-looking features but were overall effeminate, it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary since sex hormones are not the only factors shaping looks, but observing multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics in the same individual is curious. Such bizarre combinations could result from a number of scenarios. For instance, some physical features are shaped to a significant extent during prenatal development but others are mostly shaped after birth. Therefore, if a male’s testes are not able to produce high levels of androgens such as testosterone but this person is nevertheless exposed to high levels of testosterone in the womb because his mother produced high levels of androgens when she was pregnant, then he will manifest a curious mix of masculine and not so masculine features. An example could be a specific finger-length ratio talked about shortly being masculine even though the overall body shape isn’t. In another scenario, prenatal developmental disturbances caused by excess testosterone exposure will lead to a strange mix of hypermasculine, normally masculine and hypomasculine/effeminate characteristics.
Muscular build
Since having larger muscles is a more masculine-looking feature and there are very easy ways to increase muscle size without being a masculine man -- anabolic androgenic steroids, beta-adrenergic agonists and to a limited extent relatively harmless substances such as creatine monohydrate -- caution is advised in judging the masculinity of a man based on his muscularity. Even without these ergogenic aids, a less masculine man who regularly lifts heavy weights could be packing more muscle mass than a more masculine man who doesn’t do weightlifting. Some illustrative examples of professional male bodybuilders -- steroid-induced freaks -- will clarify this issue.
Do you see a hypermasculine man below?

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.1.jpg
Fig. 4. Richard Gaspari.
Think again. Look carefully at Gaspari’s shoulder width; it is unimpressive.
Richard Gaspari doesn’t have a masculine face.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.2s.jpg (http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.2.jpg)
Fig. 5. Richard Gaspari; click for context.
Richard Gaspari also does not have particularly narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/richard.gaspari.3.jpg
Fig. 6. Richard Gaspari.
The following picture shows Markus Ruhl, and is a good example of what very masculine shoulder width looks like. However, note that Markus Ruhl doesn’t have a masculine face. Also note that Markus Ruhl doesn’t have particularly narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/markus.ruhl.jpg
Fig. 7. Markus Ruhl.
Again, look at the following individual; very large muscles, but non-narrow hips and a face that is not so masculine.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/greg.kovacs.jpg
Fig. 8. Greg Kovacs.
It should be easy to look at the following comparisons and infer who has a more masculine build. Who has the combination of wider shoulders, narrower hips and a smaller backside?

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/jay.and.dennis.jpg
Fig. 9. Jay Cultler (left) and Dennis Wolf.
The following individual is a masculine male from head to toe: masculine face, wide shoulders, narrow hips.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/dorian.yates.1.jpg
Fig. 10. Dorian Yates.
I don’t have pictures of Dorian Yates as a young man, but judging from the following picture, he was close to looking like a Greek God in the flesh.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/dorian.yates.2.jpg
Fig. 11. Dorian Yates.
The take home message should be clear. Look at multiple skeletal cues to judge the masculinity of men. Some bodybuilders take human growth hormone (HGH), too, and on some counts HGH changes face shape in the same direction as testosterone. So this can confound judging masculinity, too.
If one observes obese men, they will often have heavy/thick bones and also a large amount of muscle mass, but obese men are on average among the least masculine of men in terms of testosterone levels, estrogen levels, phallus size, etc. So, some people have a propensity to pack on lots of body mass; not just fat tissue, but also muscles and bone mass. The physical constitution that predisposes one toward developing a corpulent/rotund body has been classically described as endomorphy, said to be a somatotype or somatype (build). Other somatotypes include mesomorphy (tendency toward muscularity and masculine skeletal proportions) and ectomorphy (tendency toward a long, lean and thin body development). The extent to which people lean toward these builds varies. A man who leans toward an endomorphic build to a significant but not excessive degree (e.g., Greg Kovacs above) could pack on a large amount of muscle mass using the pharmaceutical agents described above and burn off some undesirable body fat by taking alpha-adrenergic stimulators, but this wouldn’t be making him a masculine man.
Another confound affects an important structure discussed next.
For the ladies

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/for.the.ladies.jpg
Fig. 12. Stuff that matters.
I previously showed the following graph about the relation between mesomorphy/muscular build and body hairiness. Starting from an effeminate physical build, as the physique becomes naturally more masculine, body hairiness increases, which appears intuitive, but beyond a certain point, greater body hairiness corresponds to a weaker physical build. A plausible explanation of the relationship is that beyond a certain level of androgen exposure, a male fetus is developmentally disturbed, resulting in a weak physical build, but since the individual produces elevated androgens, simple structures like body hair show the effect of elevated androgens.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/hair.and.build.jpg
Fig. 13. Relation between body hair and muscular build.
It is almost certain that a similar relationship exists between muscular build and phallus length, too. The reasons are that the phallus is set well onto its developmental path when the male is in the womb, and this growth is strongly dependent on the same androgen that is a major determinant of body hair growth: dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is derived from testosterone and is more potent than it; it serves to amplify the effect of testosterone on a tissue. The phallus is a simple structure, and is expected to show a dose-response relationship with androgens/DHT over a broader range than the more complex structure of the overall musculo-skeletal build. Hence, the most naturally muscular men are not necessarily well-endowed. Some of the best endowed men may have an otherwise skinny/weak physical build, but such men will usually have multiple masculine features (e.g., a short, skinny man with lots of body hair and a deep, manly voice).
There are some developmental genes (homeobox genes; Hox A, Hox B) that affect both digits (fingers/toes) and the phallus. There is a useful proxy for prenatal testosterone exposure: the index finger-length ratio to ring finger-length ratio or 2nd finger-length ratio to 4th finger-length ratio (2D:4D). The useful measure is on the right hand as it is more sensitive to sex steroids. 2D:4D is established prenatally. With increasing masculinization, the index finger becomes shorter than the ring finger, i.e., 2D:4D diminishes with increasing masculinization. Evidence for this as well as other correlates of 2D:4D can be read about here (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1409789).
So how could one be reasonably confident that a given man is healthy, masculine and well-endowed without looking at his phallus and giving him a medical exam? The exclusion and selection criteria should be obvious. Exclude the obese/overweight, those with excess abdominal fat even if they are okay elsewhere (this is a diseased constitution) and men with a strange mix of hypermasculine/masculine, normally masculine and hypomasculine/effeminate characteristics. Select men with broad shoulders, a tiny waist, narrow hips and a small backside; and go for men in whom the index finger is noticeably/strikingly shorter than the ring finger. The ideal masculine man would have been exposed to high levels of androgens during prenatal development, developed under high testosterone levels post-natally, possess high baseline testosterone levels and have had no trouble handling the high testosterone levels. These exclusion and selection criteria increase the statistical odds of making the right inference; there are no guarantees; an obese man may be packing a member that would put most men to shame.
Comment

As in women, it is important to look at multiple characteristics in men to assess how masculine/feminine they are. Unlike in women, it is harder to judge how masculine a man is because of the ease with which less masculine men can pack on more muscle mass given current technology, and the phenomenon of some men with a mix of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics. Men’s masculinity assessment should focus on multiple skeletal characteristics/proportions.



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Comments

# 1 | Submitted by brenda on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:42 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2430#comment-2430)
Hey Eric, this is really cool. You should post more articles like this. Why don't you compare men who look effeminate, who look normal, with above average masculinity, and those who are hypermasculine?




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#2 | Submitted by BSP on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 20:19 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2434#comment-2434)
Is it really in the realm of normal sexuality to find people that extremely muscular attractive?




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#3 | Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 22:27 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2436#comment-2436)
Dorian Yates does not look like a Greek God; he just looks like a freak, as well as the rest of the men on this page, with the exception of the first four.
Leo is too feminine for my tastes, but he's still a good-looking man, Burt is alright, and Tom Cruise would look close to perfect if it weren't for his nose.
"Fineness of facial features should not be confounded with feminization. Northern European men often have fine facial features as in the following Swedish male, but his overall face shape is clearly masculine."
Not really. He looks quite effeminate, Erik, especially his nose.
Just curious - what do you think is the definition of a "pretty boy?" Do you consider pretty boys to be attractive men who look feminine (Ryan Phillipe, for example) or attractive men who look masculine, and are called "pretty boys" only because they look good (Fabio Cannavaro)?
My friend calls any guy she thinks is attractive "pretty," even when they're very masculine, and that confuses me since I associate the word "pretty" only with women.




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#4 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 00:36 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2451#comment-2451)
Brenda: Going into details about men isn’t what this site is about. The article should do a decent job of emphasizing the importance of skeletal structure in judging men’s masculinity in light of various confounds.
BPS: Some women find the extreme muscularity shown above very appealing, and this is not so unusual, but most women find extremely muscular men unappealing or repulsive.
Sarah: I have told you before not to bother with understanding masculine vs. feminine variation. The Swedish male does not look effeminate. Discussing a “pretty boy” with you would be a waste of time. The term can apply to effeminate but appealing (to those using the term) men or cute men or men who are masculine but have smooth/blemishless skin, nice hair, and a well-groomed plus generally pleasing appearance.




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#5 | Submitted by Not From Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 10:47 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2472#comment-2472)
I always thought Christopher Walken looked like a woman. People say he's 'creepy' ect, I'm like nope, he's f.e.m.i.n.i.z.e.d. yikes!
http://www.thecinemasource.com/moviesdb/images/Christopher_Walken%20-%201%20-%20Hairspray.jpg




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#6 | Submitted by Not From Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 11:14 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2473#comment-2473)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Femdog/move.jpg
Apparently David Bowie moved on from his androgynous phase. His hips say otherwise. Good god.




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#7 | Submitted by Twisty's on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 13:03 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2483#comment-2483)
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/75442629.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19309EBFDFE8F65174D155CBF5A321FA153
walken again




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#8 | Submitted by brenda on Tue, 11/20/2007 - 14:43 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2486#comment-2486)
So why don't you make a website on this? This is just as interesting as feminine beauty, or maybe even more for women. I don't think the feminized men will complain as much as the masculinized women who chance upon this site. Anyway, does the ring finger-index finger ratio as indicator of testosterone levels also apply to women?




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#9 | Submitted by BSP on Sat, 12/01/2007 - 23:30 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2603#comment-2603)
That reminds me Erik- you mention how robustness shouldn't be confounded with feminization. I've always suspected this, but I've never fully noticed it until recently when you pointed it out. It comes back to that one white nationalist blog that prompted me to write to you- he made that mistake, which led him to dismiss nearly all non-white females as hideous. Still, why would you say that women in western countries with large jaws and cheekbones are so rare in fashion, while there's a strong mixture of it in east asian countries? Are their certain extremities on these features where they're considered unattractive outside femininity, or are these considered feminine no matter what, regardless of their size? And exactly what contributes to these facial features looking masculine if size plays no role? It's easy to see, but I'm not sure of the term.




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#10 | Submitted by BSP on Sun, 12/02/2007 - 02:14 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2605#comment-2605)
Also, would you say there's a lack of models and the like with large jaws and cheekbones in the US? (though strongly feminine as well?) What could this be attributed to? There seems to be alot of variation when it comes to east asia in terms of that, but they're just pretty uncommon in western markets.
Also, one other thing to note about your site- in that one 7-part series, when you're comparing asian and european models to women from tribal and tradition societies, that's pretty..... poor. "Attractive" individuals are hard to come by in those societies due to how tightly-knit those populations are and thus leading to little pressure for truly attractive traits. There's also how those stressful lifestyles accentuate ageing and testosterone levels, contributing to greater masculinity.




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#11 | Submitted by BSP on Tue, 12/04/2007 - 22:44 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2642#comment-2642)
Erik, what do you make of this?
http://www.sensualism.com/beauty/index.html
I've heard there's somewhat of a debate over this in regards to male beauty. And what's the deal with that comment about facial hair? That seems rather neutral, unless in extremities.




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#12 | Submitted by BSP on Tue, 12/04/2007 - 22:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2643#comment-2643)
I think a good way to look at that would be to see what the maximum size of these are in normal human phenotype variation- not sure how that's possible though.




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#13 | Submitted by justagirl on Tue, 12/11/2007 - 01:40 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2673#comment-2673)
can u please please show me pix of guys who are not body builders. I want to see what a "normal" masculine guy looks like, and more face pictures please.
show a range please. show a skinny guy who is masc. vs. a skinny guy who is fem.
show a chubby guy who is masc. and a chubby guy who is fem.
a short man and a tall man, please.
and of course an average guy who is masc and one who is fem.
show body and face.
and graphs dont do much for me, can you show pictures of normal mens body hair pattern, over masc. body hair, and can u describe or show the result of too much exposure to male hormones (fetus) in an adult
you have also focused mostly on the masc./fem. characteristics of Caucasoid males can you show these effects in other races if possible
thanks would appreciate this so soooo much!!!




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#14 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 03:52 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3341#comment-3341)
Brenda: I don’t have the time or motive to come up with an equivalent site that addresses men. I can barely handle this site. The finger length find also applies to women.
BSP: There are plenty of women with prominent cheekbones among Western fashion models, and some of them also have large/wide jaws, but on average their jaws and cheekbones will be smaller than in East Asians because they descend from populations with smaller faces. The features that contribute to a masculine or feminine look are primarily shape variables; size is a factor only when a change in size alters shape variables (allometry) that are also altered in different ways by androgens and estrogens.
You shouldn’t be looking at pictures of European/Asian models and African tribals on the same page as a type of comparison. The comparisons are based on anthropological data. The pictures are merely illustrative examples of the arguments in the text. It was necessary to avoid using pictures of sub-Saharan Africans with other-population mixture, which explains the use of tribals’ pictures, though some models of predominantly sub-Saharan African ancestry are also used. As to attractive individuals hard to come by in tribal societies, this is your opinion, and your explanation that this is so because of how tight-knit they are doesn’t apply. Why should attractiveness in a mate be less important among tribals? Whereas chronic stressors will cause premature aging, I did not address skin health. I have mostly focused on skeletal features. Chronic stress decreases testosterone levels in men but does not have a clear effect on testosterone levels in women.
The sensualism site has cited the results of a study on male facial attractiveness in relation to how masculine or feminine it is, but there have been many such studies and there is no clear find to sum up. Some such studies have reported a preference for more overall masculine faces, others for less overall masculine faces, and some others have documented little relevance of masculinity-femininity in the neighborhood of average norms. In many of these studies there has been a confound between masculinization and robusticity. Findings are clearer for preferences regarding individual features such as longer chin length and higher cheekbone placement in men, both associated with greater masculinization. There are also finds that women prefer more masculine looking men when they are close to ovulating, more attractive women prefer more masculine looking men, and more promiscuous women prefer more masculine looking men.
Justagirl: I do not have the time to come up with the images you are looking for. This website is not about men, but I was able to come up with this article to be fair. Keep in mind the skeletal proportions issue. Among thin men, those with more overall masculine skeletal proportions will tend to be more masculine, just as this will be the case among obese men or men in any specific non-European population. What constitutes average, below average or above average body hairiness depends upon the population considered, and you will have to observe enough men in a given population to get an idea of the distribution of body hairiness in it.




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#15 | Submitted by . on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 19:33 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3415#comment-3415)
I read somewhere, that black man have higher testosterone levels,hence broader shoulders and narrower hips .
Is it true Erik ???
The top bodybuilder is Ronnie Coleman -who's black .
Jay Cutler -white one is next .
Dont know ,but it seems easier for black man to build muscle ?
I read some journal that says it .
Broader shoulders ,and larger penises and also longer slenderer calf muscle ideal for sprinting events .
True ????




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#16 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 05/01/2008 - 02:38 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3420#comment-3420)
dot: Whereas Ronnie Coleman was the #1 bodybuilder for many years and a massively muscular individual at that, the most muscular bodybuilders are disproportionately white males. White males have a muscle bulk advantage but the following disadvantages compared to West African males when it comes to bodybuilding competitions: higher subcutaneous fat (leading to less definition), fuller muscle bellies (leading to reduced separation between adjacent muscles) and lighter skin (reflects more light and doesn’t bring out shape minutiae). The skin color problem is easily addressed via a fake tan, but the other problems remain. Many really massive white bodybuilders never make it to the top because they just cannot get “cut” or defined enough. For instance, Greg Kovacs shown above was much more massive at his peak than Ronnie Coleman (and 3 inches taller, too), but never came close to winning a Mr. Olympia. Another bodybuilder shown above, Markus Ruhl, has competed at a bulk much greater than Ronnie Coleman’s in spite of being an inch shorter. West Africans tend to have more bone mass than whites, and so you can guess how much more muscular some of the white bodybuilders really are.
The evidence regarding testosterone levels is unlcear. The only testosterone-related study representative of the American population did not find a difference in testosterone levels between American white men and African-American men (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456570). In this study, if you look at the unadjusted values, it seems that African-American men tend to have slightly higher testosterone levels, but this was not statistically significant, and adjustment for age, BMI, smoking, alcohol consumption and physical activity revealed no statistically significant differences between these two groups. However, more of the testosterone was being converted to DHT (more potent than testosterone; it amplifies the effect of testosterone) in white men, and African-Americans had higher estradiol levels. This study did not report on the distribution of the sensitivity of the androgen receptor to testosterone in the groups, but there have been one or two reports that forms of androgen receptors that are the most sensitive to androgens such as testosterone are somewhat more prevalent among African-Americans (greater sensitivity translates to stronger effect of testosterone on target tissues). So a clear picture awaits more research.
Sub-Saharan Africans tend to have narrower hips than whites, but this appears to be an ethnic feature unrelated to testosterone levels. I am not aware of shoulder width differences among these two groups of men.
The evidence regarding penis length differences between whites and Africans is unclear (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17355371) (also this (http://www.enlargepenisguide.com/images/fig5.gif)) though I think it is slightly longer in the Africans.
The slender calf muscles, more precisely calf muscles with shorter bellies, are better suited to sprinting because of a greater proportion of fast-twitch fibers, but this also makes them less suitable for long-distance running.




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#17 | Submitted by Father Adil on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 12:59 | Has anyone seen this man - (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3537#comment-3537)
Has anyone seen this man - the music artist David Jordan? It looks as if he has an androgynous face.
YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh3wSMM_nbE)




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#18 | Submitted by Roy on Sun, 07/13/2008 - 16:37 | Population testosterone Rohrmann et al (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3540#comment-3540)
Evo and Proud:More on Rohrmann et al has taken this study apart.
The subject is central to Peter Frost's work and (as you say) peripheral to your superbly executed site, however I am a little surprised you did not notice some anomalies - testosterone increasing with age especialy - your too trusting.




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#19 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 19:44 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3545#comment-3545)
Roy: The Rohrmann et al. study on testosterone levels in a nationally representative sample of Americans reported values on a cross-sectional sample and Table 3, which reported the hormone levels by age (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/rohrmann.gif), listed values that were adjusted for age, body fat levels and other factors such as smoking, physical activity, etc. If they had reported unadjusted values, you would have seen an age-related decline. The results were:
Quote:

Total testosterone levels by age (tendency):White males: 20-44 > 45-69 or 70+
African-American males: 45-69 > 20-44 > 70+
Mexican-American males: 70+ > 20-44 > 45-69
If they look odd, keep in mind that you are looking at a cross-sectional sample and values adjusted for body fat levels, age and other factors.




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#20 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/15/2008 - 09:41 | Rohrmann et al rejoinder (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3549#comment-3549)
I think you are making the same point rebutted here in the comments at Evo and Proud
" Your referring to the linear regression model... (but)the serum concentrations of each age group as listed in table 3 'Serum concentrations of sex steriod hormones'.. are simply geometric means. Yes the age ajusted linear regression model failed to find a black-white difference. There are two reasons.First testosterone levels do not decline linearly with age. The decline is much steeper in the mid to late twenties and is steeper for blacks than for whites.
...the black-white difference is wider in the 45-69 year olds. That is to be expected if T levels are higher in 45-69 year old black men than in 20-44 year old black men. Both of these findings indicate that a disproportionate number of high testostrone individuals were removed from the younger age group."




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#21 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/15/2008 - 10:19 | Rohrmann et al rejoinder continued (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3550#comment-3550)
"The 'adjustment for age' in Table 3 is the breakdown of the data into three age groups.This point is explained in the Statistical Analysis section:
'We evaluated racial/ethnic differences in the hormones and SHBH (a)overall after adjusting for age and (b) within three age catagories reflecting hypothesized hormonal transitions though life; early adulthood(20-44 years old), mid-adulthood (45-69 years old), and late adulthood(70+ years old'.




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#22 | Submitted by Roy on Wed, 07/16/2008 - 17:51 | bodybuilding and an apology (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3554#comment-3554)
An authority on bodybuilding said blacks had an advantage over whites in the colour of their skin. Whites must agree, some of the them apply so much tanning solution they look like Al Jolson.
I commented on your citing Rohrmann in a superior tone, Erik that stuff is way over my head I can only understand P.Frosts conclusions, regression analysis ect. is beyond me. I forgot some people like to work things out for themselves and have the expertise to do so. Please don't waste time on this issue.




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#23 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 06:37 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3575#comment-3575)
Burt Lancaster has a lack of baldness, more importantly his lower lip is too big, how about replacing him with http://toddmecklem.com/Lawrence_Tierney_425.jpg




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#24 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 12:19 | Sexual selection for less threatening looks in men (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3576#comment-3576)
Sexual selection gives men relatively shorter upper faces for their breadth compared to females http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000710 I have seen some photos of the XYY Syndrome afflicted who had very long upper faces.




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#25 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 07/26/2008 - 17:15 | Photogenic confound (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3588#comment-3588)
Using leading men has a confound associated with it; photogenic people such as Leo and especialy Burt tend to have rather large faces and heads (eg Marilyn Monroe). Lancaster's facial skeleton is robust for sure, I just don't think that the masculine face should have thicker hair and a much bigger lower lip.




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#26 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 07/26/2008 - 18:04 | Gracilization in Northern Europeans (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3589#comment-3589)
Looking masculine could have the reproductively benificial rational of being attractive to women (and perhaps intimidating other men), but for much of evolutionary time men were in short supply especialy in northern Europe so one would expect this relaxed selection of men.
Relaxed sexual selection would result in men looking less masculine; being in short supply they did the choosing and the women were selected for attractiveness, which as you say is feminimity largely.
Given that north European men exibit gracilization how can you be so sure that this is pseudo-femininity. Might it just be the price paid for more feminine beauty in north Europe. The finger ratio for blonds is said to be higher.
Mather,F.,Manning,JT.,&Bundred,PE Evidence for blond hair as a correlate of high prenatal oestrogen prenal(unpublished)on Evo and Proud




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#27 | Submitted by Roy on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 14:24 | Walken - Tierney (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3603#comment-3603)
Christopher Walken might be a better choice for the least masculine face. Top catwalk models may be masculine but I don't think Leonardo DeCaprio could have made it as a top leading man if he looked effeminate. The most striking thing about him is his very short upper face which is appealing to women (see Sexual selection for less threatening looks in men) above. A study on female assesment of male face shape (Johnston ,Victor S. et al 2001) found that moderately masculine features are associated with an attractive , exciting, virile, healthy and protective man. When the shape became too masculine their perception turned negative and the man was seen to be threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish. (quoted from Fair Women, Dark men ) Laurence Tierney had a long upper face and conformed to the perceptions in real life. Maybe you could put find someone to replace DeCaprio




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#28 | Submitted by Typo on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3604#comment-3604)
Story, last paragraph, first line - "Unlikely women"




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#29 | Submitted by Roy on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 07:23 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3605#comment-3605)
My last word, I think it is a tactical mistake to use DeCaprio as a clear cut example of an effeminate face, it will hurt this sites credibility with many women who might agree with you about fashion models. Just as his broad jaw (which women like) makes his chin look more pointed, his large head makes his lower face look shorter than it is - until someone is beside him http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2005/gallery/beautifulcouples/12bundchen.jpg his taste is improving http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/nunung_2006/2322-bar_rafaeli04.jpg




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#30 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 07/31/2008 - 22:49 | Comment on Peter Frost (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3609#comment-3609)
Roy: If you are going to criticize some point, then don’t sign off as “evo and proud” because at first I assumed that you were describing yourself. Link to the criticism.
Here are the two links on testosterone and ethnicity by Peter Frost you were referencing –
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/03/testosterone-and-human-variation.html
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-on-rohrmann-et-al.html
The first link explains the context or why it is important for Peter Frost to maintain that West/Central Africans and African-Americans have higher testosterone levels than white men.
You said that you are not familiar with regression analysis. So how can you be so sure that Peter Frost has refuted my arguments? Let us look at his arguments.
Testosterone and white male – West African male differences
Frost has a strange interpretation of age-adjusted values. When someone talks about reporting values that have been adjusted for age, it means that all ages have been taken into consideration. Just because the authors choose to present the hormone level statistics by three broad age groups, it doesn’t mean that the hormone values are adjusted for membership in one of the three age groups. A related point by him is that “the black-white difference in t levels shrinks after 24 years of age, is gone by the early 30s, and seems to reverse at older ages,” but given that the literature has shown results all over the map and null finds, how can he use one study, using non-representative sampling, to insist on this statement so definitively? And the reason he brings out this point is because of his misinterpretation that the age adjustment was by broad age group rather than all ages. This mistake also prompts him to invoke [small] differences in median ages between the groups.
He ignores various kinds of adjustments on the data. For instance, let us say that over a 10-year period, an adult man reduces his average daily production of testosterone but also gains percentage body fat, and that the percentage increase in body fat is greater than the percentage decrease in testosterone. Thus, at the end of the 10-year period, this man would be producing more testosterone when adjusted for level of body fat even though his actual testosterone values have declined. And again, the sample is cross-sectional.
He does not address the higher estrogen levels in African-American men, something that numerous studies have reported. He also does not address higher AAG levels in white men, which is an indicator of greater conversion of testosterone to DHT (roughly conceptualize DHT as a more potent form of testosterone). He has pointed to higher rates of prostate cancer among African-American men as suggestive of higher testosterone levels but it is known that estrogens are a major culprit in up to half of prostate cancers (http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/100/11/815).
Rohrmann et al. indicated that they only had access to 1479 out of 1998 blood samples. Frost speculates that the unavailable samples had been removed for further study after they were found to have been infected by a herpes virus (sexually transmitted). Then he figured that the African-Americans, being more promiscuous, were more likely to have gotten infected, and inferred that their greater promiscuity was a result of higher testosterone levels i.e., the higher testosterone African-American men were disproportionately not analyzed. This is wild speculation, but more importantly it reflects Frost’s unfamiliarity with the literature.
Look at the following from Booth et al. (1999) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10196726). They examined testosterone levels and various behaviors in a random sample of 4,393 men that had served in the U.S. army during the years 1965 and 1971. The average age was 37 and the age range was 30-48. These men were representative of American men in the same age group. The first dataset indicates the percentage increase in the likelihood of sexually transmitted disease and promiscuity with increasing testosterone levels. The testosterone levels are reported in nanograms of testosterone per deciliter of blood (ng/dl). The great majority of men lie in the 300-1000 ng/dl range. We observe that with every 200 ng/dl increase in testosterone, the likelihood of having experienced a sexually transmitted infection increased by 16.5%, which is appreciable.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/booth.1.gif
Percentage increase in behavior(s) for a range of increase in testosterone levels in men.
But what proportion of the variation in sexually transmitted infections and promiscuity was accounted for by testosterone? Here is where regression analysis enters in, but you don’t have to worry about understanding it. Just look at the R2 values below.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/booth.2.gif
The R2 value explains the proportion of the variation in the dependent variable (behavior) accounted for by the variable(s) entered (age and testosterone in our case). For sexually transmitted infections, this value is a mere 0.006 or 0.6%, and for promiscuity this value is a mere 0.010 or 1%. In other words, testosterone is accounting for very little of the variance in promiscuity and sexually transmitted diseases in the sample (because too many factors affect these variables, which in turn suggests that it is a naïve assumption on Frost’s part to assume that greater promiscuity in African-Americans is due to higher testosterone levels). So even if we assume that all unavailable blood samples in the Rohrmann et al. study were removed due to herpes infection and that African-Americans were strongly overrepresented in the omitted samples, it wouldn’t follow that the omissions have prevented the average testosterone levels in African-American men from registering above the white average.
Frost has made weak arguments, and I will have more to say in other replies to your comments.




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#31 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 06:00 | Burt Lancaster vs. Leonardo DiCaprio (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3610#comment-3610)
Roy: You mentioned lack of baldness in Burt Lancaster. How is this relevant to masculinization? Male pattern baldness results from a combination of genetic susceptibility and androgens, but if genetic susceptibility is there then even men with low testosterone levels will become bald.
You also mentioned that Burt has thicker lower lips that Leonardo and hence is not a good example of a masculine male face but this point is irrelevant. Faces are shaped by many factors apart from sex hormones and it is the overall appearance that matters. A more overall masculine face is not necessarily more masculine looking on every count; it simply needs to look more masculine in the majority of feature comparisons.
You cited a study showing that “sexual selection gives men relatively shorter upper faces for their breadth compared to females,” better stated as men have wider face for the same upper face height, where upper face height is roughly the distance between the point where the forehead meets the nose and the upper lip. You cited this find because this is how Leonardo differs from Burt. The authors (Weston et al.; Biometric Evidence that Sexual Selection Has Shaped the Hominin Face (http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000710#pone.0000710.s007)) have chosen to present their data in a poor manner, and it is misleading. Their find can be summed up in this figure showing that men have wider faces but similar upper face height compared to women (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/weston.example.jpg). Their example contrasts a normal woman with an effeminate man. On the other hand, I have cited studies (see the feminine vs. masculine page) where masculinization makes the face shape narrower (example 1 (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/face.shape.gif), example 2 (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/laser.scan.1.jpg)). So why the difference? The studies that I cited used European individuals whereas the Weston et al. study used Southern African populations, and I wonder if this is relevant because the Khoi-San people appear facially less sexually dimorphic than Europeans, and sexual dimorphism of individual features is not necessarily similar across populations. But importantly, in the studies that I cited, the results are shown for face shape, which is evaluated after adjusting for face size, and face size was adjusted by computing centroid size (http://www.femininebeauty.info/marquardt-phi-mask-shape-comparison). But Weston et al. have a poor proxy for face size, namely the basicranial or basion-nasion length (shown by the distance between ba and n in this figure (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/basicranial.length.ba.n.gif)) rather than computing the centroid size from several such inter-landmark distances. In addition, even for the same face size, the basion-nasion length is increased with masculinization (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph.gif). Their statistics comprise of comparing how all combinations of the relative growths of two inter-landmark distances change from childhood to adulthood in men and women. So what they found is that the absolute width of the male face at the level of the cheekbones is greater than in the female whereas the absolute height of the upper face is similar. Since sexual selection acts on how all parts of the face fit together, it is clear that they should evaluate changes in a particular feature in relation to the rest of the face (e.g., face size as in centroid size). For instance, increasing the length of the lower jaw in men will make the face look overall narrower.
Another issue is that the upper face height metric used by the authors comprises of nose length + distance between nose tip and upper lip. In both illustrations that I have shown, where the comparisons keep face size constant, you can see that the distance between nose tip and upper lip increases with masculinization. One of these figures even shows that the region where the nose meets the forehead moves slightly upward with masculinization. The nose length comprises of the bony part plus the soft cartilage part. For the same face size, the cartilage part is longer and the bony part shorter in men, corresponding to the air intake part being larger in men (http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/dimorph2.gif).
Leonardo DiCaprio is clearly much more effeminate than Burt Lancaster.
Leonardo DiCaprio’s appeal among many women results from his being cast as a romantic lead in big films such as the Titanic, and it would be naïve to believe that Hollywood simply caters to the demands or preferences of the public. For instance, there is a strong market for Christian-themed movies in the U.S., but how many such films do the big-budget Hollywood studios churn out? I would be surprised if very many feminine and attractive young adult women would be interested in men with the looks of Leonardo DiCaprio.
I have already mentioned that studies examining women’s preferences for facial masculinity in men reveal results all over the map: a preference for above average masculinization, normal faces or below average masculinization, but studies examining specific features such as chin length or the physique have found a preference for above average masculinization. There is bound to be an upper limit of masculinization beyond which appeal to women diminishes, but this article does not deal with this topic; it address how shape varies with varying levels of masculinization.
Typo: Thanks for pointing out the typo. I corrected it.




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#32 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 07:00 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3611#comment-3611)
Re 'signing off' - point taken.
(I am in the UK and have been reading this site since the first week it was up)
(Question)
How can I admit to ignorance of regression analysis yet not be convinced by your - logicaly valid - arguments about Rohrmann et al ?
(Answer)
The belevability of the conclusion indicates whether - given logical validity in the arguments - it was reached from true premises.
Its what I meant by saying you are too trusting, many people dislike studies showing certain racial differences, biological scientists doing the studies and providing your premises included.
Lower DHT in black men might result in more T being coverted to estrogen via aromatase, would rise with increased bodyfat? Estrogen promotes cancer - agreed.
The Booth study would not have the potential for unwelcome racial results being massaged and strikes at the heart of Peter Frost's "wild speculation", very well chosen study, you are indeed familiar with this area.
Here it comes:
It is not wild speculation to point out that Booth et al being done on men who had served in the US army, was done on a unrepresentative sampling http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/05/iq-interaction-between-race-and-age.html
US army induction tests.




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#33 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 12:34 | Booth Elimination of low IQ and possibly high T. Dr. Manning (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3612#comment-3612)
cont.
Higher IQ men are much less likely to be influenced by high T to engage in risky behaviour, need I say more.
John Manning from The Finger Book (2008)
"A Californian study of African-American and Caucasian students (Ellis,L and Nyborg,H 1992 Racial/Ethnic variations in Male Testosterone Levels: a Probable Contributer to Group Differences in Health Steroids 57:72-5) showed 15% higher testosterone concentrations in the former than the latter. This was after socio-economic status and lifestyle factors were taken into account."
Prenatal testosteronisation may not have much of a correlation with T levels in adulthood still, white men in north-east England have mean ratio of 0.98, the mean for Jamacan men 0.93.
The results of studies are all over the place; very well then show me one that has whites having 15% higher T levels than blacks.




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#34 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 13:54 | Baldness,Burts Big Hair (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3613#comment-3613)
I was trying to paraphrase an argument of Dr. Frost's I altered the meaning by using "lack of baldness" instead of "thick hair" which is what I meant. Baldness is very relevant to masculisation in a negative sense though. Bald men are seen as less assertive and total lack of baldness is seen as a sign of aggressiveness in my opinion. Baldness is said to be related to high DHT and perhaps estrogen, it often goes with thick body hair which you think relevant in the context of masculinisation and muscularity at another site where you also mention scalp hair worls. From 16th cent. skinhead German mercenaries to Mohawk Indians to Marines and cage fighters short hair is associated with intimidation. Monks shaved the top (the very opposite of the Mohawk) to simulate baldness; so you are rightbaldess is
Women have thicker hair than men and thicker hair diameter,judging by the height of his hairstyle Burt inclines towards the feminine condition in both these




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#35 | Submitted by Roy on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 14:39 | Erik knows his stuff (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3614#comment-3614)
Burts face is far more masculine overall, his lower lip can't take that away - point taken
(I am not carping, I admit you are right I just am curious; if someone looking like Burt had lips like a young Sophia Loren (unlikely as that would be) could that alone make him rather effeminate.
You seem to have destroyed Weston et al I will study your criticism carefuly it spells out some things I didn't get from looking at the face shape illustrations.
I knew the Khoi-San have almost the broadest cheekbones in the world but I forgot the ancestral population had a wide range.
Erik consider giving references for what you say on this site many people will assume you have less to back it up than you ovoiusly do




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#36 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 21:47 | Sexual selection in Northern Europe (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3615#comment-3615)
Roy: You cited an unpublished study that reported blond hair as a correlate of exposure at high prenatal estrogen levels (inferred from 2D:4D) to suggest that the finer facial features of Northern European men might reflect reduced masculinization. Since this is an unpublished study, I don’t know whether the higher 2D:4D (more feminine) was found in [British] men or women or both, but let us look at what published studies say.
The first one is an international comparison.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/2d.4d.ethnic.gif
Population (P = Poland; S = Spain; E = England; H = Hungary [EH = ethnic Hungarians, HG = Hungarian Gypsies]; G = Germany; Z = Zulu; J = Jamaica; F = Finland) and sex differences (f = female and m = male) in mean 2D:4D with standard error bars). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10828555
In this study, Finnish men had the lowest 2D:4D among the white men and all men sampled, and the male-female gap was greatest among the Finnish.
In another study on some European populations, Swedish men had the lowest 2D:4D, Swedish women the highest 2D:4D, and the male-female gap was greatest among the Swedes (http://www.femininebeauty.info/f/2d.4d.ethnic2.gif) (the Swedish/London sample included Swedes born in Sweden and living in London; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16350659).
Another study on a Lithuanian sample found 2D:4D ratios lower than in most white/other populations and did not report higher 2D:4D values in individuals with lighter hair: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18041401
An odd find has been from Denmark, where the male 2D:4D was higher than in all other reported populations, including values higher than in women in most populations: http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/11/3109
The 2D:4D literature in general is not very good and one shouldn’t make much of an individual study here and there. Finger lengths are affected by many factors apart from sex hormones, and some men are going to have higher 2D:4D than many women in spite of being more masculine than women in general just as the typical man who is shorter than the majority of women still has much higher testosterone levels than the majority of women.
Nevertheless, the general find is that Nordic men, except for the odd Danish find, have the lowest 2D:4D in Europe, and two studies show the greatest male-female gaps among the Scandinavians.
This literature should be seen in light of other evidence. Northern European men are on average taller and more muscular than other European men. The most massive white bodybuilders and white men who dominate strong man championships are usually Northern European. If you look at the history of warfare within Europe, the general picture is one of the dominance of Northern Europeans. Defeat for Northern Europeans has typically been at the hands of other Northern Europeans (e.g., the Northern European-derived Franks from France, led by Charlemagne, defeating the Saxons of Germany). The Roman patricians were of Northern European descent. The nobility in Classical Greece was of Northern European descent (Northern Europeans comprised 25% of the Greeks then; reported by J. Lawrence Angel, and he documented from skeletal remains that the Nordics in ancient Greece were taller and more muscular than other European types there). So even some famous periods of Southern European military dominance had Northern Europeans as the people primarily responsible. Then there is the centuries-long occupation of the Balkans by the Ottoman Turks, but a big reason for their success was the Janissaries, their army, which comprised of kidnapped European boys raised as Muslim and turned against the Europeans, but they still couldn’t advance north of Austria.
So it is unlikely that the finer facial features of Northern European men reflect greater feminization. Selection for more feminine women doesn’t mean that the men will get more feminized also. The requirements for hunting large game and fighting for resources in Northern Europe would have selected for masculine men. After all why was there a shortage of men? Because the men were disproportionately dying while hunting big game. Even if harsh conditions prevented men in Northern Europe from supporting multiple wives, this doesn’t mean that the better off men did not get some on the side or that the women who did not have much of a choice but to settle with a less desirable man because there weren’t enough men around didn’t try to get their children secretly fathered by more desirable men.
Frost talks about the higher prevalence of polygyny in Africa, but what does polygyny do? If some men are taking multiple wives then some men are ending up with no women. So, many men will try to ensure that their wives are not taken by higher status men, i.e., they will tend to restrict how much of their women they expose in public. Of course, the men with multiple wives/harems will try to prevent lower status men from secretly dallying with their women. And, if there are plenty of men around, then women will be more restrictive with their sexuality. This will tend to lead toward the situation you see in the Middle East (extreme case). How conducive is this system to strong sexual selection? The women have little choice and the men don’t need to develop myriad abilities that one would normally need to court desirable women (obviously because the women will not be doing much choosing); all the men need is wealth/power to convince a prospective father in-law. One is even looking at war/treachery to acquire wealth/resources or at worst stealing other men’s women.
A variant of a polygynous system is that few people are married, one is expected to be faithful while married, but unmarried individuals are free to have sex with multiple unmarried partners, and only a minority of well-off men get to have multiple wives. In this system, most men and most women get a shot at reproduction and no sex has a large number of individuals that face death without reproduction. So no especially strong sexual selection here.
Now what happens in Northern Europe? Men die disproportionately while hunting big game. So the surviving men are being selected for masculinization. There is an excess of women. The women are forced to be less restrictive with their sexuality because an interested but rejected man will simply move onto another woman. The men are not especially motivated to restrict the sexual opportunities available to women because there are so many of them. The only advantage of restricting women’s sexuality for men is increasing the certainty that who they think are their biological children are indeed so, but this comes at the great cost of undermining one’s sexual pleasure. Diminishing one’s sexual pleasure by restricting women’s sexuality when there are plenty of women around doesn’t make any sense, and no red-blooded man would be so inclined. So the women have full partner selection choice, even though limited, but no matter how limited the choice, women will be more selective than men in a comparable situation. They simply have to, given their limited childbirth capacity. This is a crucial point. Even with a shortage of men, women will still be significantly selective, and the men are of course being selective because there are so many women to choose from, and the men are typically not in a position to support multiple wives. Choice for women means that they are free to try to secretly get their children fathered by men more desirable than their husbands and not come close to risking assault/death in the process. How can you beat this when it comes to strong sexual selection under natural conditions?




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#37 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 21:59 | IQ, 2D:4D, baldness (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3616#comment-3616)
Roy: Your criticism of the Booth et al. study using American soldiers is that it was done on an unrepresentative sample. The authors compared numerous demographic characteristics of their sample with those of men in the general population in the same age range and found them to be similar. Besides, the sample is from 1965-1971 but you cited an article by Peter Frost who is mentioning the shortcomings of a decades-earlier sample. The major shortcoming being addressed by Frost is the intelligence distribution, which is not an issue in the Booth study. Frost reiterates that the IQ cutoff for joining the U.S. army, presumably 90, eliminated from consideration the majority of African-American men. However, during 1965-1971, American men aged 30-48 were overwhelmingly white, including in the army. Additionally, the relationship between testosterone and IQ is at best weak. Hence, the results of the regression analysis presented would be unaffected by including lower IQ African-Americans. Even if it were affected, the effect would be so small that the conclusion would not change.
You are interested in a study showing white men having 15% higher testosterone than sub-Saharan African men. Frost himself has cited some, but he dismisses them because they involve sub-Saharan African populations who are not sufficiently masculine or are older populations. So if Frost is going to pick his masculine sub-Saharan populations and ignore the rest, then it is only fair that I be allowed to pick the more masculine European male populations rather than all whites. I pick Nordics. You mentioned a study where the English men had a 2D:4D of 0.98 and Jamaican men had a 2D:4D of 0.93. I mentioned a study where Finnish men had a 2D:4D of 0.93. This ratio reflects prenatal testosterone exposure, which is not strongly related to testosterone levels in adulthood, as you have cited. Prenatal testosterone exposure is a combination of self production and maternal contribution. Finnish women are more feminine than West African women and hence to arrive at a 2D:4D similar to that of the most masculine West African populations, Finnish male fetuses are producing higher testosterone levels than the West African male fetuses. In reality it is not clear how comparable cross-ethnic 2D:4D comparisons are and anyone familiar with the literature on 2D:4D ratio would know better than to make much of individual studies, but if I am dealing with Frost or you then I might as well use similar reasoning. Heck, I can even go ahead and argue that the 0.95 2D:4D in Swedish men is indicative of high fetal testosterone production on their part comparable to the Finns’ and higher than the Jamaicans’ because Swedish women are more feminine than Finnish women and are raising the Swedish male average even though the fetal testosterone production is similar.
Regarding baldness, again, it is a non-issue. I already mentioned that male-typical androgen levels are required for male pattern baldness, and levels in the effeminate range of the human male are enough, and hence saying that DHT is a culprit is basically reiterating this point, but the main issue is the genetic susceptibility to baldness. Unless you have evidence that the majority of instances of genetic susceptibility to baldness not involving androgen production are related to masculinization or a more manly look, don’t bring baldness or hair thickness into the picture. My discussion of a combination of baldness, body hair and muscularity issues has been in the context of an odd mix of hypermaculine and hypomaculine features in the same individual, not in terms of a straightforward judgment of a man’s masculinity.
If Burt Lancaster has Sophia Loren’s lips, he would look odd but still not effeminate. Regarding the citations of the figures I displayed in reference to Weston et al., I mentioned that they are taken from the feminine vs. masculine page. Look there.
Anyway, don’t waste my time with these issues. They are not relevant to this site.




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#38 | Submitted by Roy on Sat, 08/02/2008 - 11:06 | Sweden and Hoes (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3617#comment-3617)
Reading your responses is time well spent, so I rattled your cage about N. European psuedo-feminisation in men (It was genuinely my point of veiw, it seemed plausible from what I knew). I don't think you can take umbrage at this observation which is relevant to this site; Swedish women are the most beautiful in the world. (Even Swedish female bodybuilders juiced to the gills look more feminine than their fellow competitors) Swedish women are in demand all over the world as models, non Swedish men of the highest status men often marry them. Sexual selection is the obvious explaination (counterbalanced by some kind of selection for men as you say) perhaps we might find some support for the expectation of a higher ratio of Y-chromosome to X-chromosome variability
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15978763 Irish women do not seem to be in as much demand http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/2005/12/y-chromosome-variation-and-irish.html
In Pakistan the houses with the smallest highest windows (where the women are) belong to the wealthiest families advertising the fact that their women are the most secluded. (incidently, marrying cousins is a common practice in the middle east). As you say this can only have a bad effect on the quality of both sexes though Razib on gnxp did not thank you for this observation. Marrage practices explain a lot and vary a lot even within those called polygyny As I understand it Dr. Frosts explaination for relaxed sexual selection of women in some African populations involves on hoe farming so you have a point, sexual selection for women would not automaticaly loosen selection for men.




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#39 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 11:31 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3622#comment-3622)
"Don't waste my time with these issues. They are not relevant to this site"
Quite so, its what you should have said to Dot when he asked about the T. levels of black men, that or ignored him. Please bear in mind; the less relevant an issue is to this site the more likely someone might think you're wrong about it and say so.
If you wander off your turf expect a challenge.
Comments on Decaprio, face shape studies and gracilization are as relevant to this site as this page is, if it's a wasting your time perhaps it you ought to be taking it down. I admit to going on a bit - sorry - I was thinking out loud. The site design encourages comments. You answered all my points. Although I made them forcefully I didn't want them to be true, I don't look like DeCaprio. Anyway, thank you for sharing your knowledge.




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#40 | Submitted by Roy on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 13:39 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3623#comment-3623)
"Don't waste my time with these issues.They are not relevant to this site"
Quite so, but you ought to have told this to Dot when he asked about Testosterone levels ect. in black men, that or ignored him. Please bear in mind that the less relevant an issue is to your site the more likely someone will think you are wrong about it and say so.
If you wander off your turf expect a challenge.




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#41 | Submitted by Ali on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 21:56 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/3634#comment-3634)
"Sub-Saharan Africans tend to have narrower hips than whites, but this appears to be an ethnic feature unrelated to testosterone levels"
Yes it is because non-Africans (especially Europeans and East Asians) tend to have bigger brained babies and thus demand broader pelvises from their mothers. Women tend to have wider pelvises compared to men due to childbirth.




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#42 | Submitted by Mike on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 15:31 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4083#comment-4083)
If you removed all of the muscle from Dorian Yates' body, he has a worse shoulder to waist ratio than tom cruise. Yates' steroid induced muscle mass is tricking your visual system. BTW, Cruise does not have an 'effeminate' body LOL. It is not as masculine as Mike Tyson, but it is actually MORE masculine than Yates if you compare the actual skeleton.




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#43 | Submitted by Sally on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 23:16 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4249#comment-4249)
Why not put a picture of yourself up for us all to decide on what side of the scale you sit "Erik"?




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#44 | Submitted by jim on Thu, 01/22/2009 - 10:31 | Kudos in general - great stuff Erik!! (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/4522#comment-4522)
I came to the site looking for Olivia art. What I found was far more than I could have imagined.
As a former bodybuilder in the the 1980-1983 era (then a back injury), in the pre-growth hormone stage
(when it had to be sucked from cadaver pituitaries - and some were dying of CJ / mad cow as a result!) -
and even after, when people didn't learn the IGF connection, I found your postings above to not only be
EXCELLENT observations, but even observations I, myself, had not made, in evaluating competition, at the
time and again in 1993 - when I made a "comeback" to the extent that injuries would permit - with a new
round of androgens (and again tweaked the old injury and took myself out!).
There is much to look at and compare - and even the rules change with regard to judging, in order to keep
interest in the sport high - (too many repetitive wins is not good, when the personalities are not at all like
Ahnold!). And so you have a change that means Coleman OUT, Cutler IN.
All in all - I agree with you about the masculine aspect of things -- Gaspari was the youngest Mr. America - at 19,
chances are real that he suffered epiphyseal closure much earlier - and that changed his shoulder width dramatically
for those final growing years. Yates only real negative was the insanity of a tattoo - but again, also no personality,
something critical to a "sport" like bodybuilding.
People - this site and Erik's commentary on the whole range of anthro questions are not about putting anyone down,
they are about observing. Even when Lou Ferrigno made his big comeback - weighing nearly 75 pounds more than he did
in his 1975 contest with Arnold (75 pounds of pure muscle at under 2% fat!) - he didn't place in the FIRST round of Olympia.
He was OUT. He was more monstrous at 345 pounds (and 6'5") than he had ever been.
I like your use of study, statistics, references, etc. Really - for a hobby site, and attributing so much to art - for which I know
absolutely nothing about (in terms of anatomical study for painting/drawing), you provoked a great deal of thought and
I did send a link to someone I know with a Fine Arts degree - because as she gets back into creating - a long lost love of hers,
there is no such thing as "too much information" - and every opinion has the value of creating a new pathway of thought.
(unless it's just a moron posting!)
So, again - my many thanks! You made this a VERY interesting Thursday Morning!!!
:-D




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#45 | Submitted by orlon on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 13:47 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5148#comment-5148)
interesting, open-minded perspective; more examples might be helpful.




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#46 | Submitted by Godis on Tue, 03/24/2009 - 04:48 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5194#comment-5194)
Ok Erik,
All those men look really gross. No woman wants a man like that, trust me! Dorian Yates does not look like a Roman God, rolls eye. Facial structure and body structure, maybe he does look like a Roman God. BUT, Roman Gods were never built to look like they were going to explode. The muscle is revolting... no woman wants a man that muscular.
Let me post some photos of men that women generally find attractive:
First of all, a man that is slightly darker is always a bit more charming. Ever heard of tall, dark and handsome? However, lighter men are attractive as well, but I think women and men alike associate lighter hair,skin,eyes, etc. with greater feminity, even though it doesn't relate to hormone levels.
This guy is muscular, but its not too much! not for me at least... however for some girls it MAY be too much.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/ph_jt/pictures/abercrombie.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/guy%20model)
Another muscular attractive guy. Honestly, if it gets more muscular than this, the attractiveness goes down...
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s324/VickyLovesAnimals123/022-1.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/guy%20model)
This guy doesn't have that much muscle. However, he is bulky and wide shouldered. This is more attractive than someone who is bulky and has a shit load of muscle. His face has feminine features, but he is attractive nonetheless. In fact I find that feminine features such as slightly fuller lips, bigger eyes, etc. on a man attract women even more. After all they want to see those attractive qualities in their children boy or girl don't they?
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/_kiyuu_/StevenStrait15.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
Same guy, only thinner:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/luminoir8/Steven_Strait.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/kwikkat/Hotties/steven_strait.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/steven%20strait)
What would help Steven straights appearance? A slightly finer nose from the frontal view, while side profile is alright
Paul Walker is extremely attractive:
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/Jareth63/Paul_Walker.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/paul%20walker)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e224/Nicoleo527/paul_walker11.jpg (http://photobucket.com/images/paul%20walker)
Are you getting the drift?
The men I picked I find very attractive. However, for example some women find even leaner less muscular, or men with a less masculine build even more attractive. I know absolutley NO women that like overly muscular overly masculine guys. This is the truth:
That men on the masculine side of the scale are considered more attractive, however once that scale goes to far a man on the feminine side would do better even
Same with women: A woman on the feminine scale is more attractive, but once she gets too feminine no one finds her attractive anymore.
Besides, the whole feminine masculine scale in my opinion doesn't have to do as much with attraction as you claim. A woman with nice features that isn't particularly feminine can be more attractive than a feminine woman with boring, bland, or just bad features. And many times even androgynous women can look good, is it rarer? Yes, but not possible.
And also we all like to see feminine qualities in both males and females. If a man has big eyes, or pouty lips, etc. That is attractive to a woman. Similarly if a woman has a combination body type, such as an hourglass/athletic type, this may be more attractive. This woman is curvy, has a small waist and large breasts, however, her shoulders may be a tiny wider and her legs or something more athletic. Who cares? This woman can be very athletic and stunning at the same time.
Let me give you an example:
Keeley Hazel
You haven't responded to my questions about her by the way. Anyways, she has huge shoulders, but an amazing hourglass figure with amazing breasts? However, she looks better than most of the feminine women you post up that are moe feminine than her? Why? Is it because she looks stronger and healthier due to the fact that she has better defintion combined with feminine features such as hips,large breasts, and a small waist? Yes. This is more attractive because she looks better made, healthier, stronger, while maintaining her feminine attributes. This will beat out any other just plain feminine girl.




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#47 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 07:25 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5251#comment-5251)
Mike: The article is about not being tricked by muscle mass. I am not being fooled by the muscle mass of Dorian Yates. Tom Cruise does not have an effeminate physique in terms of muscle mass. Tom Cruise has made an effort to work out and attain decent muscle mass, but take a look at his shoulder width, especially in relation to hip width.
Godis: The article is not about what women find attractive in men. It is about the subtlety of masculinity-femininity in men.
You said, “Besides, the whole feminine masculine scale in my opinion doesn't have to do as much with attraction as you claim.” The evidence suggests, cited within this site, that in the absence of physical defects, the extent of femininity is the most powerful correlate of beauty in women for a given ethnic group. I agree that “a woman with nice features that isn’t particularly feminine can be more attractive than a feminine woman with boring, bland, or just bad features.” Nothing within this site refutes this notion and the site also offers plenty of evidence in its favor. Why don’t you read enough of this site before leaving comments?
There is nothing for me to say regarding your bringing in Keeley Hazell. I have passed her as an attractive woman, which doesn’t mean that all aspects of her looks have to be in the feminine range.




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#48 | Submitted by man with a prom... on Fri, 06/26/2009 - 05:27 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5758#comment-5758)
those with excess abdominal fat even if they are okay elsewhere (this is a diseased constitution)
What do you mean by diseased constitution?
Also, with regard to supermodels. Gay men or lower testosterone males predominantly control the fashion industry. Those type of men are more likely to be attracted to, or simply tp prefer for asthetic reasons, more masculine or androgenous female faces.
Also, do you think there is any truth to the idea that higher testosterone results in the asymmetry of facial features?
"Higher IQ men are much less likely to be influenced by high T to engage in risky behaviour, need I say more"
- Does testosterone influence intelligence? Does more testosterone make you dumber?
- Or, as is known higher testosterone makes men more likely to engage in risky, spur of the moment, and stupid behaviour. Does higher intelligence actually reduce the chances of this due to the greater ability of the man in question to reflect on the potential consequences of his actions?
In short - Men with high T and high intelligence do not do the same stupid things that men with high T and low intelligence do?
What sort of body type would you consider John Wayne with his wide shoulders and wide hips?
"When the shape became too masculine their perception turned negative and the man was seen to be threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish. (quoted from Fair Women, Dark men )" -
I think this is the failure of the survey method. Remember, women find bikers, criminals and dangerous and abusive men hot, yet will never admit to it. In fact they might not know themselves what they are attracted to. It may be the greater levels of attraction and masculinity they are attracted to DESPITE the bad behaviourof the man. Ergo women are not attracted to assholes, per se, but are attracted to highly testosteronised or masculinised men and these types are more likely to engage in asshole behaviour. Unfortunately I have no evidence for this besides what I've seen. Any study trying to understand this would be better off trying to study a woman's actions and not listen to her words.
On a related note, its well known that prison populations are full of men who are highly testosteronised or masculinised. No one would call these men pretty or attractive yet women seem to love them. All this boils down to is basically, women are attracted to high levels of testosterone. High levels of testosterone lead to higher levels of aggression and more risk taking behaviour, which as I said before, means women are attracted to men who display threatening, volatile, controlling, manipulative, and selfish behaviour but it is not this behaviour that attracts them. It is the high levels of masculinity they are attracted to despite these negative personality traits. So of course they will give these men bad ratings, but still jump into bed with them.
Concerning big hair, baldness and mohawks: Baldness is a sign of intimidation in some men. Consider bikers, gang members and so forth who shave their heads. Consider also soldiers have very short hair.
Are fish lips and mono-brows examples of masculinisation?
Also, is there any truth to the idea that high testosterone lowers the immune system?




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#49 | Submitted by BigT on Sun, 07/19/2009 - 02:59 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5901#comment-5901)
High testosterone improves facial symmetry in men. High testosterone also strengthens the immune system.




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#50 | Submitted by Gass on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 10:13 | masculine vs feminie (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5913#comment-5913)
Dorian Yates is ugly, I have a better body without exercising.
I measured my index ratio, it is high (1.01) - effeminate, but I have wide shoulders narrow waist, narrow hips and good muscles, I was somewhat effeminate and cowardly as child then turned 180 after puberty does that mean I have been exposed to little testosterone in the womb but high testosterone after puberty? What does that say about my penis size I have no clue ? BTW my penis is very straight. What does that say about my sexual performance ? I have been told I'm amazing but I could have been lied to so as not to be hurt.
In this linkkkkkkkk (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1559906)it is writter that high prenatal testosterone contributes to robustness more that masculinity, white pubertal testosterone contributed to masculinity more that robustness.
Considering women, I heard that high testosterone women have higher libidos, more prone to cheating, more promiscuous and prefer masculine men, low testosterone/high estrogen women are the contrary of the above.
BTW this Swedish man is so beautiful I love this pic




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#51 | Submitted by Gass on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 10:53 | Attractiveness (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5914#comment-5914)
Here many suggest the femininity is the ace of base when it comes to attractiveness and a post by Erik said there was a research that indicated this. Can you post the research? This is weird because I've always believed and witnessed that proportionality and symmetry come before femininity when it comes to attractiveness in a woman and most guys would pick a beautiful child faced woman (child features are attractive in women) over a plain feminine face and body.




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#52 | Submitted by Krizalid on Sat, 07/25/2009 - 13:54 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/5933#comment-5933)
What you mean by 'child features'? thats just lack of prominent zygomatic bones, especially the zygomatic process.




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#53 | Submitted by LazyLeo on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 10:46 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/6868#comment-6868)
Erik I've noticed this dimorphism throughout my life, yet seems to contradict pop culture's ideal beauty with both men and women. I'm curious is the cheek bones higher along the vertical plane or are they shorter with the brow reaching lower and nose reaching longer to give the cheek a high effect also, about the arches, if the arches are placed higher then would this cause elevation of the ears and a different mandible/maxilla relationship in regards to bite. I would love to see a frontal comparison of masculine and feminine skull shapes. Any links would be appreciated. Thanks keep up the good work.




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#54 | Submitted by Igor on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 04:59 | Your theories are pure demagoguery. (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/6905#comment-6905)
There is absolutely no such thing as biologically defined beauty.
As you should know or promptly ignored in favor of racial biases, beauty is a cultural fenomenon and genetic diferentiation between sexes varies naturally among diferent generations. To say otherwise is (ironically enough) to contribute to the real underappreciation of beauty.




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#55 | Submitted by D. Rigby on Tue, 02/02/2010 - 08:45 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7897#comment-7897)
my body shape is more like a womans than a man,I`m 5ft-7ins tall I weigh just 10stone my chest measures 33ins,my waist is 27ins but my hips are 38ins, 11ins more than my waist,and 5ins more than my chest.I`m not as physically strong as most men,Ialso have an exceptionally tiny penis and testicals,and most men and even some women can lift me off the ground and carry me as though I were a small child but I cannot lift them an inch off the ground.The women say they find me to be very effeminate.




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#56 | Submitted by Bill on Wed, 02/03/2010 - 20:39 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7898#comment-7898)
What can you guys say about me??? Levels of androgen, handling of chemicals, masculine/feminine features, etc.!
I'm curious.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7430/twodogs.jpg
Ignore the incredibly distracting cute puppies.




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#57 | Submitted by mary on Thu, 02/04/2010 - 17:57 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/7900#comment-7900)
The puppies are quite masculine:)




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#58 | Submitted by Randy on Wed, 03/10/2010 - 02:58 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/8632#comment-8632)
Very interesting site. Keep up the good work. BTW, some comments seem a bit dense.




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#59 | Submitted by forgot on Tue, 06/07/2011 - 18:51 | link (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/30527#comment-30527)
"Unlike in women, it is harder to judge how masculine a man is because of the ease with which less masculine men can pack on more muscle mass given current technology, and the phenomenon of some men with a mix of multiple masculine and multiple effeminate characteristics."
No kidding! I'll give it a try, though . . .
Am I correct in judging:
Daniel Craig to be overall masculine in appearance?
Pierce Brosnan, Alan Rickman, David Boreanaz, Clint Eastwood, and Brad Pitt to be average overall in terms of masculinity/femininity?
Hayden Christensen, Ewan Mcgregor, Jensen Ackles, Alain Delon, Robert Pattinson, Taylor Lautner, and Edward Furlong to be in the effeminate range?
Ted Danson to have a hyper-masculine face? (Couldn't find any clear pics of his body.)
Sean Connery to have a masculine face + normal body?




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#60 | Submitted by a on Tue, 01/03/2012 - 23:21 | Godis misses the point yet (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/32871#comment-32871)
Godis misses the point yet again.




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#61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, 01/26/2012 - 01:49 | Question - (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33076#comment-33076)
Question -
Erik, you've said that Northern Europeans disproportionately have the most feminine looking and also the most masculine looking women. Does this entail that they also disproportionately have the most masculine looking and also the most effeminate looking men?




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#62 | Submitted by :-) on Fri, 01/27/2012 - 10:11 | 61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33080#comment-33080)
61 | Submitted by ? on Thu, 01/26/2012 - 01:49 | Question -
Question -
''Erik, you've said that Northern Europeans disproportionately have the most feminine looking and also the most masculine looking women.''
Erik never stated that. Erik stated Europeans women are Overall MORE feminine looking not the MOST feminine looking. There is a huge difference between the two statements. Europeans may have a higher percentage of feminine looking women (women classifiable as feminine not taking into consideration how feminine they are on the femininisy scale) though within that percentage of feminine looking women they may have less/least on the 'most' or higher end of the femininity scale but due to having a high percentage overall of women on the femininity scale they may be classifiable as overall more feminine looking comapred to the overall of another culture but not the 'most' feminine looking women. Another culture may have a higher percentage of women on the higher end of the femininity scale than the europeans but due to a smaller percentage of feminine looking women in general on the scale of feminity there overall average on the feminine scale doesnt balance out as good as the europeans would, so there overall average on the femininity scale would not be as high as the europeans though they may still possess a higher percentage of the 'most' feminine looking women than the europeans. Thats is what Erik is stating. He is not and has never stated that european women are the 'most' feminine. In fact alot of what he has stated has not been understood correctly.




»
#63 | Submitted by Zaz on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 22:00 | Bullshit (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33134#comment-33134)
What's that bullshit that you've just written? A BIG population with more feminine looking women necessarily has the most feminine women, unless there's a different magnitude of standard deviation in femininity in the two populations which is unlikely. Because outcomes diverge to the values expected by probability laws when sample numbers are big, and in this case we are talking about populations




»
#64 | Submitted by Lady G (http://ideasforabetter/) on Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:40 | digit ratios (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33216#comment-33216)
I'm fascinated with this topic as I am a queer woman with a very low digit ratio (.94), and some very masculine facial features (heavier brow ridge, eastern euro cheekbones). I was prowling the web in search of more inspiration for my blog, and found this site. I've also got some other interesting stuff in my blog regarding gender and the way the lines can be blurred, coincidentally.
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/10/famous-fingers.html
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/10/more-on-gender.html
http://ideasforabetterhumanity.blogspot.com/2011/11/more-on-gender-identity-really-awesome.html
There seems to be evidence that biological characteristics are also related to personality and psychology (for instance, low 2d Ratios in both men and women are related to more aggressiveness, especially in men.)




»
#65 | Submitted by orlando on Mon, 03/05/2012 - 14:42 | hello (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33246#comment-33246)
hello
do you think i have masculine face or feminine face? too masculine or just average? or maybe on the feminine side?
I think I have high broad cheekbones but my jaw is weak, maybe because I still have fat on my face, but on this page says that the mandible doesnt have to do with masculinity
http://oi41.tinypic.com/98ytk8.jpg




»
#66 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:15 | Orlando: The mandible is (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33266#comment-33266)
Orlando: The mandible is affected by masculinizing and feminizing factors. You must have misunderstood something.
Your face is masculine. Don’t let the cheekbones confuse you as they reflect part-Indian and utlimately Asiatic ancestry; ancestry aspects mostly do not involve population differences in masculinity-femininity.




»
#67 | Submitted by orlando on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:12 | Yeah i know the cheekbones is (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33339#comment-33339)
Yeah i know the cheekbones is common in natives and south asians, im mestizo ... i mentioned because i read that high broad cheekbones gives the person a more masculine and aggresive look this is why many female models look masculine, because of cheekbones, also all the bad guys in movies have high cheekbones ... i like to have them, makes me look exotic so to speak lol but i still have fat on my face so they dont look that defined female models with hi




»
#68 | Submitted by Woodward on Wed, 05/02/2012 - 11:35 | I think the most genetically (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33613#comment-33613)
I think the most genetically gifted are Mulattos or (half black, half white) because they have the full muscle thickness most usually from some sort of alpinic european descent and the "cut-ness" or muscle seperation from their black side. The reigning Mr Olympia is mulatto 5'9, 250lbs Phil Heath @ 2% bf. He looks like afro-germanic with a predominately alpine body structure....




»
#69 | Submitted by Staci on Sat, 06/30/2012 - 13:35 | I think you should have (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33848#comment-33848)
I think you should have picked a better example to illustrate the type of male beauty that women like. Most women find hiper-muscular men unappealing. The physical male ideal for women is a man athletic muscled but not extremely as bodybuilders. We prefer male fitness models type. Men of your photos also show a low rating of facial attractiveness. I'll use an example more appropriate prototype of male beauty.
I posted the pictures of fitness model Marc Fitt. Great body and a very attractive face.
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=423473_371653389518133_353297390_n.jpg)
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=IMG-20120416-WA0007.jpg)
302 Found (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s515/fran197823/?action=view&current=563946_487462664603871_1745896677_n.jpg)




»
#70 | Submitted by Erik (http://www.femininebeauty.info/) on Sun, 07/01/2012 - 18:33 | Staci: The article is not (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/33850#comment-33850)
Staci: The article is not about illustrating what kind of men are liked by women, but about issues in evaluating the masculinity of men. Some of these issues are best clarified by using examples of extremely muscular men.




»
#71 | Submitted by Marija on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:10 | Not quite clear (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/34000#comment-34000)
Erik, I don't really understand where you concluded from that Swedish or Northern European women are on average more feminine than Asian or Black women?
Do they have higher estrogen levels than Asian or Black women?




»
#72 | Submitted by Marija on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:40 | Erik, (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/34001#comment-34001)
Erik,
You say:
"As in women, it is important to look at multiple characteristics in men to assess how masculine/feminine they are".
"Finnish women are more feminine than West African women" "Swedish women are more feminine than Finnish women"
Do you have a source for this, or is this based on your personal views/observations/opinions?
I am very interested in how you got to this conclusion,
~a Dutch female

http://www.femininebeauty.info/masculinization-feminization-in-men

[natina]

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[natina]

'Don't think it's meant to do that': Shocking video shows botched butt implant turning inside out29 Nov 2012 13:48 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/by-date/29-11-2012)

The 20-second video claims to show the woman manipulating the disc-shaped implant in her right buttock.

A video showing a woman's botched butt implant 'flipping inside out' has become a viral hit.
The shocking 20-second video claims to show the woman manipulating the disc-shaped silicone implant in her right buttock.
As she moves it around she tells the camera: "This is my implant flipping backwards".
She then adds: "I don't think an implant's supposed to do that. It shouldn't be able to flip."
The video has been viewed almost 20,000 times and shared more than 6,00 times.
It is unclear whether the video, which was featured on a post on WorldStarHipHop.com, is genuine.
However, a quote accompanying it, said: "This is the dangers of butt implants.. Ladies do not ever do silicone butt injections they are toxic to your body. Butt implants are not any better, too many risk, infection, displacement of the implant and they feel like rocks not to mention look very unnatural. Love the skin your in [sic] Here is what happens when implants go bad.. This is my personal experience I almost died from this surgery and am having them removed this Thursday."
Consultant plastic surgeon Adrian Richards from the Aurora Clinics in the UK, believes the clip is real.
He said: "It is a complication which is relatively common following buttock implants. It shouldn't really happen because the pocket should be snug so the implant stays where it is.
"This lady's implant is flat on the bottom and coned on the top, but this one has flipped over."
In South America and the US buttock implants are popular with women.
However, after a recent surge in deaths relating to black market operations, plastic surgery experts have warned against them.

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article749322.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Padge+WindsloweSex swap: Padge Windslowe
In March this year a transsexual suspected of killing a young British tourist by giving her buttock-enhancing jabs was arrested by police.
Padge “Black Madam” Windslowe, 42, was held by officers during a raid on an illegal “pumping party”.
She will stand trial for the murder of 20-year-old Claudia Aderotimi.

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article110118.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/image-2-for-paper-pictures-12-02-11-gallery-499566886.jpgTragic: Claudia Aderotimi hoped a bigger bottom would help her star in music videos
The aspiring dancer travelled to Philadelphia in the US last year from her home in Hackney, East London, for the silicone jabs.
She hoped a bigger bottom would help her star in music videos.
But she died of heart failure 12 hours after the botched £1,000 procedure.

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article869551.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/SUNDAY+MIRROR+ONLY+Vanity+WonderBottom boost: Former waitress Vanity had so many treatments that her bum ballooned
In June petite mum-of-two Vanity Wonder became so addicted to bum-boosting injections that she ended up with a 45-inch bottom.
Vanity was so swept up in the craze for “booty­licious” curves like stars ­Beyonce and Kim Kardashian, she spent £10,000 on dangerous and illegal silicone jabs.
The former waitress, who is just 4ft 11ins tall, had so many treatments that her bottom ­ballooned.
At one point she caught a potentially fatal ­infection and she was in such pain that she couldn’t sit down.
Vanity, 30, now has to buy Size XL bottoms even though she’s still tiny on top.
While back in December 2009 a former Miss Argentina who was "obsessed" with maintaining her stunning figure died after having buttock-firming surgery.
Solange Magnano, 38, suffered severe breathing problems following the bottom uplift operation, known as gluteoplasty.
Crowned Miss Argentina in 1994, the top model had previously had breast surgery following the birth of her twins.
Solange had travelled from her home in Cordoba to the Argentine capital Buenos Aires for the buttock implants at a private clinic last Thursday.
She was transferred to hospital following post-surgery complications where she died in intensive care

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cosmetic-surgery-shocking-video-shows-1463388

[natina]

they do not actually put cement into you body but it is used to seal the wound caused by the large gauge needle used.

you see how the news media has gotten careless?

Man Arrested For Injecting Cement Into Women’s Butts

http://newsone.com/1651685/cement-butt-implants-oneal-ron-morris/


Calvin Butler, aka Tamieka Butler, suspected of injecting victims with silicone

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone#ixzz2KvqdDwWA
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone


Florida police have arrested a man for allegedly injecting cement into the rear-ends of women who came looking for “butt implants.”
A cocktail of substances including cement, glue and tire sealant were allegedly administered by 30-year-old Oneal Ron Morris. Mr. Morris is also a transgendered cross-dresser.

Sgt. William Bamford of the Miami Gardens Police Department in Florida said that the procedure took place in May 2010, after the as-yet-unidentified victim met with Morris to discuss the surgical enhancement.
“They agreed on the price of $700 for the procedure, which was intended for cosmetic purposes,” Bamford said.
What the woman got for her money was a series of injections containing a bizarre concoction of cement, super glue, mineral oil and Fix-A-Flat tire inflator and sealant, police said. The incisions were sealed with Super Glue.
Bamford said the victim was reluctant to come forward. She quickly went to two South Florida hospitals due to severe abdominal pain and infected sores on her buttocks accompanied by flu-like symptoms. But she left each time, too embarrassed to tell doctors what she’d done.
WTSP-TV Tampa, which broke the story nationally, reported:

As a result of the compound, Morris’ victim was hospitalized with what police called a “serious medical condition as a result of the injections.”
Miami Gardens Police said Morris also performed a similar procedure on herself.
Police said Morris may have other victims that may be afraid to come forward. They urged any potential victims, or anyone with more information on Morris, to call Miami Gardens Police at 305-474-1420.


Man suspected of injecting 'patients' with silicone, sealing injections with 'Krazy Glue'

Read more: VIDEO HERE
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone#ixzz2KvqdDwWA
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone

[bat1]

Why? Why? Why?

[natina]

to look appealing and because they don't have the $$$$$ for a real doctor


Man suspected of injecting 'patients' with silicone, sealing injections with 'Krazy Glue'


WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - A West Palm Beach man is being accused of injecting silicone into patients' buttocks, and sealing the injection sites with 'Krazy Glue,' according to Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Offic e spokeswoman Teri Barbera.
Detectives say 44-year-old Calvin Edward Butler, also known as 'Tamieka Butler,' was renting a room at the El Patio Motel in West Palm Beach, where he injected at least two people with silicone.
According to an arrest report, both unidentified people, a male and a female, were admitted at local hospitals with severe infection, pain, bleeding, oozing wounds, and disfigurement.
Butler was arrested on January 18 by Palm Beach County detectives and charged with two counts of practicing medicine without a license, according to the sheriff's office.
The female victim told detectives that she met with Butler at his room at the El Patio Motel where she received four silicone injections to both buttocks in September and October of 2012, and was charged $200 per injection section.
She describes the procedure, explaining that Butler used a felt tip pen to mark areas on her buttocks and then poured out a clear liquid from a Pedialyte bottle into a plastic cup, filling the syringe from the cup and injecting the liquid into her buttocks. Once the injections were completed, Butler would clean the blood from the skin and apply 'Krazy Glue' to the incisions.
The victim spent several days in the hospital after developing a bacterial infection that swelled her lymph nodes.
The male victim is being treated for open sores on his buttocks caused by the injections, according to a report.
He told detectives he received weekly injections from Butler for almost four months starting in June. In October, he developed a serious infection and needed surgery and is still being treated for infection.
A sheriff's report says Butler visited the male victim in December, dressed as a woman with a large wig and a fur coat, and told the victim he never should have sought medical attention.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone#ixzz2LDqcK0bj

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/calvin-butler-aka-tamieka-butler-suspected-of-injecting-victims-with-silicone



You Want Some Ass Shots Inside Edition Investigates Illegal Back-Room Booty Enhancements!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvY5jnbD7M

Back Room Booty Injections - Inside Edition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lv8VT8kyZI

PIX News - NJ Woman Accused of Giving Unlicensed Butt Injections (11-24-10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWHOqFhEJYc


Is The SIZE of Vanity "the 8th" Wonder's butt Photoshopped or Not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQvPdzP2T8A

Vanity Wonder's 2010 Thank You's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TjwmmudEk4


Woman has over 1000 butt surgeries ---Vanity Wonder's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWz1EMteSN8

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[SXFX]

god this is wrong.....am i the only guy who likes to date girls with nice fit small asses?
why are women doing this? =(

[natina]

if some of the TS did not have silicone,fix a flat,caulk or hydrogel many guys would not date them because many can not afford a real doctor or to save the money for a real doctor would take much much longer to transition.

the reason that many TS look so convincing today is because of silicone pumping and HRT.
SO ITS TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKES TS more convincing and stealthy

http://www.annierichards.com/hormones.htm

http://www.secondtype.info/stealth.htm

http://www.annierichards.com/transition.htm

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[SXFX]

kimbers ass looked perfect

[natina]

folks or enlarging there penis with silicone or caulk

silicone cocks

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=60128

[natina]

silicone cocks, silicone dicks synthol arms,popeye arms

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=60128


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=60128&page=2

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=60128&page=3

[natina]

Dozens more victims have come forward claiming they were left disfigured after botched plastic surgery procedures at the hands of a transgender alleged fake doctor (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/11/butt-implant-fake-transgender-doctor-victim-photos-pain).
As RadarOnline.com previously reported (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/11/cement-butt-injections-fake-doctor-transgender-woman), Oneal Ron Morris, 30, who was born a man but is now living as a woman, was arrested (http://www.radaronline.com/category/tags/oneal-ron-morris) for practicing medicine without a license with serious bodily injury after injecting a bizarre cocktail of cement, flat-tire sealant and mineral oil into the buttocks of a patient desperate for a bigger behind.

Following the initial report, another “patient” came forward (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/11/butt-implant-transgender-fake-doctor-injected-cement-face-cheeks) claiming her face is mangled after Morris shot cement and tire sealant into her face. Rajee Narinesingh said she learned of the alleged faux doc’s service via the transgendered circuit, and was compelled to take a chance as she didn’t have enough cash for a licensed doctor, but desperately wanted some tweaks to her appearance.
“You know how a boil feels?” the 48-year-old transgender asked, when describing her painful experience to NBC.


"It felt like there was a mass that wanted to bust out of my face, but it actually didn’t. It just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.”
And, now, up to 30 more victims have come forward claiming Morris, who goes by the name “The Duchess” carried out potentially deadly procedures on them, including closing wounds with Super Glue.

As RadarOnline.com previously reported (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/12/butt-implant-transgender-fake-doctor-cement-injections-victim), Morris and her alleged accomplice, Corey Eubanks, 40, have both denied the charges against them.
Morris spoke for the first time to Entertainment Tonight in December, where she adamantly declared her innocence. “They didn’t catch me doing anything so it’s all just allegations,” she told the CBS entertainment show.

“I’m innocent, I really am innocent, or whatever,” she claimed brashly.
The new victims claim Morris carried out procedures such as butt and chweewk implants on them and that they suffered severe and sometimes life-threatening complications. Thankfully, so far there have been no reports of fatalities.
Shaquanda Brown, of North Miami, told the Miami Herald that she had to be hospitalized for over a month after one such procedure and still continues to suffer sickness.
She claims she was quoted a price of $1,000 by Eubanks but negotiated the price down to $700 for a series of 12 injections. She says she underwent her first treatment at Eubank’s house and that she saw a syringe, a black hose and a tube of Super Glue by the ,massage table upon which she was instructed to lay.
She says she recalls “The Duchess” Injecting her and then sealing the wound with Super Glue — she was admitted to the hospital shortly after to recover from multiple abscesses a staph infection.
Despite the physical evidence literally being on the faces and behinds of her victims, Morris said she had nothing to did with their shocking transformations, and even admits that the back-room procedures sounds like a crazy thing to do.
“It sounds bizarre but I feel like how could America even think that a person could put cement in somebody’s bottom,” she told Entertainment Tonight.

Boasting a giant butt that she reportedly enhanced with her own home-made mixture, Morris went on to say how she is the one that the public should be feeling sorry for.
“These allegations…I didn’t do any of these things to these people. Just know these people who are lying are ruining my life, that’s all I have to say,” she claimed.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/01/transgender-fake-butt-implant-doctor-victims-dozens-more/

[natina]

Butt shot practitioner sentenced to 1 year in prison (http://sandrarose.com/2012/06/butt-shot-practitioner-sentenced-to-1-year-in-prison/)

Strippers in New Nork will have to find another butt shot practitioner to administer their butt shots (http://sandrarose.com/2011/01/police-bust-fake-beautician-who-administered-butt-shots-without-a-license/). Whalesca Castillo who prided herself on fleecing hundreds of customers for $1,500 a pop was sentenced to 1 year (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bronx-woman-whalesca-castillo-silicone-injections--160350185.html) in prison.
Castillo was arrested for continuing to operate her “underground augmentation factory” after being busted in 2011.
Police serving a search warrant on Castillo’s Bronx home found empty bottles of Columbian silicone, used needles, bloody gauze, and “dozens” of tubes of superglue to seal injection sites to prevent leaking silicone.

Castillo was also ordered to forfeit $100,000 in ill-gotten profits from her illegal enterprise.
There was no shortage of costumers for Castillo’s expertise. Strip clubs that cater to so-called “ballers” with unlimited drug profits has created a high demand for insecure women who want grossly unnatural butts like Nicki Minaj or Kim Kardashian.

http://sandrarose.com/category/law-and-order/?cat=484

http://sandrarose.com/images16/castillo-vanity-wonder.jpg?42e305

[natina]

Kim kardashian admits to silicone or caulk butt enhancement

Women Get Butt Injections w/ Caulk?! ( Video) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teaRigo6lA)

[natina]

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/gallery/kim-kardashian-ass/kim-kardashian-ass-3.jpg


http://cf.blogetery.com/3186/files/2008/01/kim-kardashian.jpg

[natina]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C3XDWVowSSw/TtLCOD_p8EI/AAAAAAAABQ8/tXu6GeRGRMo/s1600/kim_kardashian_young_bikini.jpg

[natina]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/044406867.jpg

[youngblood61]

KK's ass is for real!:)

[freak]

folks or enlarging there penis with silicone or caulk

silicone cocks

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=60128

I have been with a girl that had silicone injected into her cock, it didn't feel right, it was a turn off for me, same as the silicone asses. gross. :ignore::ignore:

[freak]

KK's ass is for real!:)

Taking bets she will never recover from the baby, she will have sloppy dimpled ass and a belly forever :hide-1::hide-1::2cent

[natina]

Man spends 6 years injecting silicone into his PENIS




LiveLeak.com - Man spends 6 years injecting silicone into his PENIS (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=461_1360105026)

[desireejones]

some woman almost lost her life.
now she just lost all her limbs


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2333224/Apryl-Michelle-Brown-My-quest-perfect-left-NO-LIMBS.html

[desireejones]

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[desireejones]

TRANSEXUAIS ARRISCAM A VIDA APLICANDO SILICONE INDUSTRIAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmhjil64M0)


My new butt, surgery with Dr. Cortes - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHNQcFOu9Y)

[fred41]

and yet another alias...

[desireejones]

BRAZILIAN BUTT LIFT - AUGMENTATION, LIPOSUCTION, NATURAL,SAFE, EFFECTIVE, BEAUTIFUL
BRAZILIAN BUTT LIFT - AUGMENTATION, LIPOSUCTION, NATURAL,SAFE, EFFECTIVE, BEAUTIFUL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grKfueYE4pY)



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Financing Plan:

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[desireejones]

Tummy Tuck/Fat Transfer To Butt: 2 Months Post Op w/ Pictures

Tummy Tuck/Fat Transfer To Butt: 2 Months Post Op w/ Pictures - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLogvFGKfg)



lipo & fat transfer to buttucks for $3500.00 USA

Lipo,tummy tuck & fat transfer to buttucks for $5000.00 USA

Address:
Colima 2332 Col. Cacho
Tijuana, B.C., México

MEX 01152 (664) 634 7116
USA 1 800 951 7181
(619) 320 0105
(323) 863 9802

Financing Plan:

no excuse for silicone pumping now as $3500 & $5000 is no money in the adult sex worker world.

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[natina]

Ideal to real: What the 'perfect' body really looks like for men and women


Each set of 3-D illustration images shown was created for TODAY to reflect the body size and shape dimensions from a study in 2012. Above is the "ideal" body of a woman (left). On the right, the average body of a young woman, based on BMI.

If each of us could design our ideal body, what would it look like? How do we develop these ideals and how close do our own bodies come to them? Does that ideal really matter?
As part of the "Love Your Selfie, Reclaiming Beauty (http://www.today.com/style/tag/love-your-selfie)" series, TODAY wanted to visualize how far we are from what we imagine is the ideal figure and our average bodies. Pittsburgh artist Nickolay Lamm — who previously showed the world what Barbie would look like (http://www.today.com/news/normal-barbie-uses-real-womens-measurements-6C10533511) as an average 19-year-old woman — shows our "real" selves in a set of 3-D illustrations for TODAY, based on recent British study.

British researchers gave young heterosexual Caucasian men and women a chance to design ideal bodies, one for themselves and one for a hypothetical mate. The study used 40 female and 40 male heterosexuals with an average age of just over 19 — university students, mainly. They presented each person with 3-D computer representations of bodies. Each participant could adjust the images in many different ways until they arrived at the ideal body for their gender, and the ideal body of the other gender. These ideals were then compared with the participants’ own bodies.

The results of this study revealed a couple of surprises. First, the ideals ran across genders. Men and women barely differed in their opinion of what an ideal body looked like, whether the ideal was for a male or a female.

Essentially, the male ideal is an inverted pyramid with broad shoulders and small waist, while the female ideal is an hourglass with a small waist-to-hip ratio. Second, both women and men preferred slimmer female bodies than the real female participants possessed.


Men and women were also pretty close in agreement on ideal male body shapes. The images you see at the left of each pair, above, were designed by women. They set a preferred ideal man at a BMI of 24.5, a waist-to-hip ratio of .86 and a waist-to-chest ratio of .77. The ideal set by the men (not shown) was a BMI of 25.9, a waist-to-hip ratio of .87 and a waist-to-chest ratio of .74.

The twist: women preferred a larger bust size than the men did.


The "ideal" female on the left -- bigger breasts, obviously -- compared to the "average" female, based on BMI. “We were a bit surprised,” senior author of the paper, Martin Tovée a professor at the Institute of Neuroscience at Newcastle University told TODAY via email. “It is possible that the female participants were exaggerating a feature they felt was particularly important.”
Men “also exaggerated their upper body shape…relative to the ideal set by women,” said Tovée.

The "ideal" man on the left -- bigger on top -- compared to the real shape of average man -- wider in the hips.
Some experts believe we evolved these "ideal" preferences as signals of health and fertility. Others believe that culture, especially media representations, has more influence than genes or evolution.
"What struck me from these illustrations is that even though the ideal bodies are 'ideal,' and are the type of bodies people spend hours in the gym for, the bodies based on the participants of the study still look good," said Lamm, who developed the 3-D illustrations for TODAY.
"Part of the reason for the divide between ideal and reality may be due to what we see in the media," added Lamm, who recently completed a crowdfunding campaign to create a new doll, Lammily (https://www.lammily.com/average-is-beautiful), based on the average measurements of a 19-year-old American woman.
Both the culture and genetic views are likely correct.
Tovée who has spent years studying in this field, believes “we probably have a default setting to pay attention to certain physical dimensions like overall body mass… but there will be no preset values along the physical dimension.”

He’s done some cross-cultural comparisons and found differences that appear linked to wealth and food availability. The tougher food and resources are to come by in a society, the more men prefer plump women.
Kerri Johnson, an associate professor in the departments of communication studies and psychology at UCLA, thinks it’s likely we’ve evolved to have certain preferences, but that culture mediates those preferences. When she asks people to pick out how their mind’s eye sees the “average” woman, test subjects choose thinner women with smaller waist-to-hip ratios than reality.
http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/streams/2014/April/140428/2D274905725199-today-body-image-140428-07.blocks_desktop_medium.jpgLammily/Marco Romero
The ideal female body according to the men (the one shown on the left in each pair, above) had a BMI of 18.82, a waist-to-hip ratio ratio of .70, and a waist-to-chest ration of .67. The men in the study designed a very similar female ideal (not shown): 18.8, .73, and .69 respectively.

“Our mental representation of the average woman is more extreme than anything you will see in Vogue,” she said. “And this happens by age 5.”
Still, context matters.
When UCLA researchers asked to select among a number of possibilities, men entering a university dining hall — presumably hungry — preferred slightly heavier women than did men leaving — and presumably no longer hungry. Similarly, men with more money in their wallets — and so “resource rich” — preferred thinner women than did men who had no money in their pockets.
When we are establishing ideals for body shapes, Johnson said, we may actually be seeking strong cues for masculinity and femininity. For example, in her studies, people often say smaller is better for a woman’s waist.
“At some point you’d think that a very small waist-to-hip ratio would be seen as unnatural and unattractive, but we have not hit that lower boundary. In fact, people tell us they look natural and very attractive even when shaped like Barbie.” That holds true across genders.
Mental representations of the average man, she said, are not far off from reality, and you can see that holds up in the 3-D images here.


Again, the ideal for men differed from reality, though not by as much as ideal v. reality did for the women. The forty men averaged out to have a BMI of 24.54, a waist-to-hip ratio of .87, and a waist-to-chest ratio of .88 as reflected in the image on the right in each pair, above. The U.S. BMI average for adult men and women is 28.7, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But why do both men and women prefer more extreme female bodies?
“Media exposure does not account for everything,” Johnson said. Rather, our preference may be about survival.

When confronted with an ambiguous body shape, our default setting is to assume we’re looking at a male. Males can represent danger, which may be why most men and women think hyper-masculine men are not as attractive as men with somewhat softer features.

Perhaps, Johnson suggested (and she is beginning to research this idea), both men and women prefer more extreme female body shapes out of self-protection. Barbie, after all, doesn’t look dangerous, though she could break your heart.
And maybe the very idea of an ideal doesn't matter.
"Even though we are aware of ideal bodies, it's not like we reject people if they don't have perfect bodies," Lamm said via email. "We decide our life partners on many factors (personality, character, etc). Whether or not someone is an ideal body type is not that important at the end of the day."


http://www.today.com/health/ideal-real-what-perfect-body-really-looks-men-women-2D79582595

[natina]

silicone causing some issues in this TS model/escort

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=14741&stc=1&d=1104635280http://shemalestardb.com/cont1/10/12219_7.jpg
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=113548&stc=1&d=1185387874http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=318307&stc=1&d=1275483676

[natina]

Buttloads of Pain - Full Length VICE United States

http://www.vice.com/the-vice-report/buttloads-of-pain
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-report/buttloads-of-pain
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-report/buttloads-of-pain
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-report/buttloads-of-pain

Ms. Banks, a dancer at the King of Diamonds strip club, showing off her massive, illegally injected ass in a backstage dressing room. All photos by Ben Rosenzweig
The horror that befell Oscarina Busse’s backside began in July 2009. The 35-year-old Floridian felt a dull but persistent itch deep in the meat of her buttocks, one that was impossible to scratch.
It wasn’t long before Oscarina noticed that her butt was changing colors—first turning purple, like a throbbing finger that had been wrapped too tightly with string, and then a cadaverous gray. From there, things got much worse. Her flesh started to crust and painfully peel off until, a few months later, the whole mess collapsed like a badly baked cake. The cheeks of her ass drooped down, loaded with a stew of poisonous goop that collected around her lower buttocks. What had once stood high and felt supple to the touch had become hot and hard and stinging. Oscarina’s derrière had transformed so much that it no longer looked like it was part of a human’s body; her five-year-old daughter mistook her fluid-filled cheeks for a poopy diaper, calling it a “full Pamper.”
Like thousands of women across the globe and increasingly in the US, Oscarina was suffering from the side effects of a black-market butt injection. Because of its clandestine nature, it’s impossible to quantify exactly how many people in the US are illegally getting their butts pumped up like a pair of Reeboks. But the number is definitely growing; due to the proliferation of reported disfiguring cases like Oscarina’s and even deaths, law-enforcement officials and the American Society of Plastic Surgeons view black-market butt injections as a burgeoning epidemic in the US.
The crude inflation procedure consists of shooting a liquid substance such as silicone or mineral oil directly into a client’s butt cheeks and hips through a syringe. There is no substance that is safe to inject into your body to create more volume, not even medical-grade silicone, but these black-market “butt doctors” have, according to victims, allegedly used harsh substances like concrete and the industrial silicone sold at hardware stores in their procedures. After the injections, the exterior flesh wounds are sometimes closed with Super Glue to prevent the toxic slop from leaking out.
Anyone with a basic understanding of health and medicine knows that pumping someone’s body full of free-flowing substances like silicone is extremely dangerous. Hence it has been illegal to inject fluids like silicone into the body for cosmetic purposes since the late 60s, so these butt-pumping procedures are typically performed by back-alley quacks—rogue nut jobs with suitcases full of dirty needles and flasks full of muck. These procedures can trigger a strong autoimmune response as the body attempts to expel the foreign substance, resulting in inflammatory reactions such as polyps, boils, skin discoloration, and even necrosis. These substances have also been known to migrate through the body and fuse themselves to organs, or enter into the bloodstream, spreading infection throughout the body and causing septic shock—which can lead to the amputation of infected body parts or, in the worst cases, death.
In October, I met Oscarina at the beauty salon she owns in Coral Gables, Florida, to better understand why someone would inject their butt with toxic chemicals. She wore a form-fitting pantssuit, high heels that cackled against the salon’s linoleum floor, and a citrusy perfume that permeated the room as she paced back and forth from the shampoo bowls to her styling chair. Surprisingly, her butt seemed high and round. It looked pretty good, especially considering that only a few years ago her haunches had mutated into a distorted heap of poisoned flesh and immense pain.
Oscarina is lucky. She’s one of the few women who, after realizing something was very wrong with her new ass, managed to find a doctor who was willing to surgically remove the substances from her body and rebuild her butt, possibly saving her life in the process. She told me that the whole ordeal is something she feels gravely foolish about now, considering she was blessed with a shapely Dominican figure. But in south Florida, where gargantuan asses plop down every boardwalk and beach each minute of the day, just having a “nice butt” isn’t good enough for many. “No one [here] is ever happy with their body,” the beautician said to me sheepishly. “It wasn’t because I didn’t have it. I just wanted it to be better.”
Although it’s illegal to cram someone’s can full of mysterious substances, finding a butt doctor in the United States is like buying drugs; you just have to know a guy who knows a guy. These hookups happen through word of mouth, as well as via forums and social media sites. In Miami, America’s epicenter for clandestine butt surgery, it’s as easy as walking into a beauty spa where, among the massages, aromatherapy, and saunas, customers can allegedly order a bevy of illegal silicone butt shots off a secret menu.
So that’s exactly what Oscarina did, ordering her first set of injections at the beginning of the summer in 2002 for about $3,000. She wouldn’t tell me who had administered the procedure, but did admit that her clients recommended a certain spa in the area. She did it with the hope of getting her body in shape for bathing-suit season. She described to me the feeling of a syringe piercing deep into her butt and excreting as much as 600cc of industrial silicone simply as “filling,” as if her butt were a water balloon stretched over the nozzle of a garden hose.
It’s important to point out that there are legal butt-enhancing procedures. The FDA deems both implants and fat transfer—where fat is liposuctioned from areas like the patient’s stomach and transferred to his or her fanny—to be safe when conducted by a board-certified plastic surgeon. However, many women choose the black-market procedure to save money. Legal implants and fat transfers can cost up to $10,000 more than their illicit counterparts. For Oscarina, on the other hand, it was more about the shorter recovery time for injections than their lower cost. Fat transfer and butt implants require weeks of recuperation, and the final results don’t settle in for months. Injections result in a new rear end almost instantaneously, as if you’d put your backside in a butt microwave.
“The recuperation was very easy,” Oscarina explained. “I went to work right away. I just had to get a massage with the shots because, otherwise, it wouldn’t settle properly.”
It wasn’t until she decided to undergo another pumping procedure performed by a different spa in 2009 that everything went, quite literally, to shit. “I got the shots,” she told me as she ran a tail comb through the frizzy hair of a teenage girl, “and six months later my butt turned purple. The product had eaten off my muscle, and my skin peeled like an onion.”
It’s impossible to know what the problem might have been the second time around—it could have been the reaction between the new shots and the first round, or perhaps the new shots featured a lower grade of silicone that infected Oscarina’s ass. What we do know is that months after the second round of injections, Oscarina started to lose control of her body. But she was too embarrassed to talk to a doctor, even though her ass was rotting off.
http://scs-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/int/v21n2/htdocs/buttloads-of-pain/doc-n-dog.jpg
Dr. Constantino Mendieta leans on his McLaren sports car—one of his many automobiles—in front of his massive Pinecrest, Florida, home.
It wasn’t until the winter that Oscarina finally shared her plight with anyone. Unable to bear the discomfort caused by her rapidly worsening deformity, she told me that she opened up to a client at her salon. She abruptly stopped doing the client’s hair and asked the woman to come look at her bare ass in the back room. Minutes later, under hot fluorescent lights, Oscarina pulled up her dress. In the vanity mirror, her painful secret was revealed in her client’s expression.
“When I saw her face, I knew it was terrible,” Oscarina said to me, staring off into the direction of the private room. It was at that moment that she knew she had to swallow her pride and seek real help.
Due to the challenge of reversing such a botched and unsanctioned operation and the resulting potential for legal liability, many doctors will not help a patient like Oscarina. Injected silicone can be corrosive and can easily migrate throughout the body. When it breaks down, which can happen in a matter of hours or over the course of several years, it becomes almost impossible to completely identify or locate. According to a comprehensive history of silicone injections in the US edited by Harvard Law professor Peter Barton Hutt, 555cc of silicone can break apart into 30 billion small globules once inside the body, and each of those 30 billion pieces has the potential to cause an infectious reaction. In other words, getting this stuff in your butt is easy—but to take it out involves getting carved up like a doner kebab.
“After going to consultations with doctors, their reactions made me think I was going to die,” Oscarina said. “I had this painful problem and nobody would touch me.”
Finally, after searching and searching for a doctor who would be willing to help her remove the silicone from her butt and speaking to a few more trusted friends, one of Oscarina’s clients who had been through a similar experience recommended Dr. Constantino Mendieta. The doctor agreed to fix her ass and, by her reckoning, saved her life.
“When I saw him,” Oscarina told me, “I saw the glory.”
http://scs-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/int/v21n2/htdocs/buttloads-of-pain/black-n-pink-thong.jpg
The illegally injected butts of King of Diamonds dancers Seven (left) and Amore (right). One day, these bubble butts could be the source of severe health issues for these women.
The same week that I met Oscarina, I visited Dr. Mendieta at his practice in Miami’s affluent Coconut Grove neighborhood—a tan, stucco building with the words PLASTIC SURGERY inscribed on its façade. Dr. Mendieta is one of America’s top plastic surgeons, a sculptor of buttocks on par with Michelangelo whose book on butts, The Art of Gluteal Sculpting, was published in 2011. Unsurprisingly, the butt business has been very good to him. In the driveway sat his revved-up Maserati, which he told me is his beater for his work commute. When he’s not saving people’s asses, he whips around in a McLaren sports car.
“The buttock today is what the boobs were in the 60s,” Dr. Mendieta told me inside his office. His face looked like a Clark Kent mask, his skin pulled back at his temples, and he wore a royal-blue, custom-made admiral coat of fine Valentino silk. “But butts are better. When you look at breasts, you have to look at a face. There is no room to fantasize. But when you turn it around, there is no face anymore. You’re free to put whatever face you want on that booty.”
Even if Dr. Mendieta’s explanation was a little creepy, he is absolutely correct about the growth in popularity of butt augmentation among Americans. The number of legal butt procedures in the US increased by 176 percent between 2000 and 2012, exploding into a $26 million industry. Dr. Mendieta has been happily riding the crest of this ass wave. Ten years ago, 20 percent of his practice was the buttocks. Today, it’s 90 percent.
And while Dr. Mendieta would prefer to focus on molding new posteriors, more and more he’s been finding himself reconstructing the buttocks of women who’ve received black-market injections.
“There’s no question that I’ve been performing these reconstructive procedures at an increasing rate,” he said. He explained that he’s fixed about 30 illegally injected asses in his career, and five in 2013 alone. “People are coming to me from all over the world, mainly the United States. It’s endemic in South America, Miami, and New York, and some in LA. But Miami is a bigger hub for this stuff. My feeling is that I will see even a higher number in the future, because it can take five to ten years for the injections to react.”
Florida law-enforcement officials agree with Dr. Mendieta that cases such as Oscarina’s are an increasing problem. Detective Bryan Tutler of the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, who led the 2012 investigation of Oneal Ron Morris, one of the nation’s most notorious ass quacks, told me, “These things just started. If you go back three or four years, no one had ever heard of this. And now they’ve really picked up. Pretty soon, I don’t think that any law-enforcement agency is going to be able to hide from investigating these kinds of crimes.”
Which leaves Dr. Mendieta squarely on the front lines in the battle over illegal butt tampering—a battle that keeps getting worse. Of all the victims of illegal butt injections he’s operated on, he said that Oscarina’s was one of the most severe cases he’d ever seen.
“I had to cut a great deal of flesh out with the silicone,” he said, “because it had impregnated her tissue. We pulled out a pound and a half of pure, rock-hard substance from each cheek.”
The task of removing the damaged tissue and reconstructing Oscarina’s ass was such an undertaking that it had to be broken up into two operations. The $6,000 she spent on her butt injections no longer seems like a bargain; she estimates that it has cost her nearly $70,000 and counting to get her butt back into shape, and Oscarina still hasn’t undergone the second procedure in which the remaining impregnated tissue will be removed and her cheeks will be further fine-tuned. The truly sad thing is that she’s one of the lucky ones. There’s only one Dr. Constantino Mendieta, but who knows how many Oscarinas are out there suffering?
http://scs-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/int/v21n2/htdocs/buttloads-of-pain/misshapen-butts.jpg
These images provided by Dr. Mendieta show complications from botched butt injections very similar to Oscarina Busse’s. You can see the discoloration throughout the buttock and the distorted shape. Like Oscarina’s, this butt was hard to the touch.
The use of silicone injections to increase the size of one’s assets is nothing new. The practice dates back to World War II, a hundred years after the synthetic compound was invented and a decade or so after it became commercially viable to mass produce. During the war, the US military used silicone to insulate electrical transformers. It was on the docks of Yokahama Harbor in Japan that American Army quartermasters first started noticing the relationship between their transformer insulation fluid disappearing and the increasing bust size of the local hookers. Although crude and certainly not medical grade, it was an ostensibly better option for Japanese sex professionals who up until that point had been pumping up their chests with paraffin and Vaseline.
American physicians started to take note of silicone as a breast augmenter. The practice of injecting silicone directly into the breasts spread throughout America in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, perpetrated by cosmeticians and plastic surgeons. Widely used by female entertainers, sex workers, and everyday women in the US—including Nancy Reagan­—and it took some time before the horror stories of botched boob jobs bubbled to the surface of middle-class America. Over the years, many of these women suffered silicone cysts, collapsed nipples, and painful, rock-hard breasts.
In 1965, the FDA made it illegal for doctors without a special experimental permit to perform silicone injections—however, plastic surgeons kept pumping under the assumption that if they purchased the silicone made in their home state, they were operating outside the FDA’s jurisdiction. This continued until the practice started to fall out of favor in the late 60s and 70s due to countless horror stories and increasing regulations—states like Nevada and California made injections illegal in 1975, and several others followed suit.
With legal injections off the table, plastic surgeons turned to silicone implants, which were thought to be safer because the silicone was contained in an inert elastomer shell. However, due to studies linking implants to serious health issues, the FDA put implant manufacturers under a voluntary moratorium in 1992. In 2006 the FDA reapproved silicone-gel-filled implants, and they’ve since made a huge comeback, comprising 72 percent of all breast-augmentation procedures in the US in 2012. It was during the past two decades—when the country was engaged in a nationwide dialogue on the risks and benefits of implants—that silicone-injection procedures moved into the seedy underground.
Above all, it was the transgender community that really pioneered the backroom butt-injection scene in the 1980s and 90s. For a male transitioning to a female at that time, it was a ridiculous notion to think that insurance would foot the bill for procedures that made their outside look the way they felt on the inside. The black market was the go-to place for these types of augmentations because it was considerably cheaper. Also, at the time, the fat-transfer method had yet to be developed. To get the results that were desired—round, feminine butts—injections were the preferred option for many in the transgender community. After some of these women made their transitions, they turned around and became butt doctors themselves, using the injection technique that they’d utilized on their own bodies first.
Since then, the practice has moved from the margins toward the mainstream. One of the poster children for the horrible effects of silicone pumping is a woman from Los Angeles named Apryl Michelle Brown, whose lower legs and arms were amputated after her body went septic due to complications from silicone injections she received in 2004. Another high-profile victim was a 20-year-old woman named Claudia Seye Aderotimi. In 2011, she traveled from London to Philadelphia to get butt shots from Padge Victoria Windslowe, a transgender lady known in some circles as the “Black Madam.” Claudia was an aspiring dancer, looking to enhance her figure so she could make it in the hip-hop music-video scene. She died of a pulmonary embolism almost immediately after injections of industrial-grade silicone entered her bloodstream and traveled to her liver, lungs, and brain.
The phenomenon of butt pumping has even crept into popular culture. Every time Kim Kardashian or Jennifer Lopez wears a swimsuit, tabloids and gossip websites furiously debate whether their bodacious butts are the result of an intense squat regimen or ass injections. Former stripper and hip-hop model Vanity Wonder, who boasts ample 34-23-45 curves, wrote a book about her addiction to illegal butt shots and the 16-plus times she had her butt pumped up. Nicki Minaj, who is known for her huge rump almost as much as for her platinum-selling albums, has commented on the phenomenon of injections and admitted, albeit facetiously, that she’s had them done. In her guest verse on the remix of Big Sean’s “Dance (A$$),” Nicki raps: “Kiss my ass and my anus, ’cause it’s finally famous / And it’s finally soft, yeah, it’s finally solved! / I don’t know, man, guess them ass shots wore off!”
http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/130297/mugshots2.jpg
Mug shots of Oneal Ron Morris, a.k.a. the Duchess, illustrate her transition. “She had the perfect body,” a friend said. “But she took it too far.” Photos provided by the Broward County Sheriff’s Office
If you’d heard about ladies ballooning their asses with illegal injections before reading this story, it’s probably because of a transgender booty “doctor” named Oneal Ron Morris, who is also known as the Duchess. In 2011, the Duchess’s grotesque visage and distorted bodily proportions appeared all over major websites and local Florida newspapers when she was arrested in Miami-Dade County for practicing medicine without a license and causing bodily harm, providing a harrowing window into the twisted world of black-market plastic surgery. The Duchess’s butt was so outrageously big, she looked like a Koopa Troopa wearing a wig.
But besides the Duchess’s horrendous appearance, what caught the public consciousness was that it was reported that she was pumping substances like Fix-a-Flat and cement into the butts of her clients before sealing them off with Super Glue. Although the allegations that the Duchess used such especially horrifying substances have never been confirmed, we do know that many of her clients suffered mutilating side effects related to her injections, and at least one allegedly died as a result.
The Duchess is currently serving a 366-day sentence in Florida state prison and facing a manslaughter charge—all for injection-related offenses—so she wasn’t available for interviews when I visited Florida. But I did interview a man named Corey Eubanks whom local law enforcement accused of being her assistant—a charge he continues to deny. Corey ultimately pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of culpable negligence, stemming from the Duchess’s performing a butt-injection procedure at his home in Hollywood, Florida. When I interviewed him, he was still on probation.
I met Corey outside a Fort Lauderdale plastic-surgery clinic called Body Care. This peculiar location was selected for Corey’s convenience—the 42-year-old was planning to get some fat suctioned from his lower abdomen later that afternoon. Corey, with dreads stretching down to the small of his back and striking pistachio-colored contacts lenses, is no stranger to body augmentation. In addition to being a charismatic, all-around hustler—alternating work as a tax consultant, personal trainer, and stylist—he’s a walking billboard for the Duchess’s butt injections, which he claims to have only had performed on him once. According to Corey, over the years his pumped-up rear end has inspired at least 25 people to get butt shots from the Duchess. (For the record, he said that, while he’s referred people to the Duchess, he’s never received payment for doing so.) Everyone, apparently, really wants his ass.
When I first laid my eyes on Corey out in front of the stucco-walled clinic amid looming palm trees and sweaty joggers, all I could think about was what would happen to Corey if he fell into the Atlantic Ocean. Would those balloons in his tight-fitted workout pants float, or would they sink him to the ocean floor like an anvil? Corey wasn’t shy about the junk in his trunk. It only took a few minutes after making his acquaintance before he invited me to give it a touch.
“Go ahead,” he said in a motherly drawl that made it seem like he was offering me a cheesy biscuit at dinner instead of a chance to feel his highly touted tush. He lifted up the back of his shirt and arched his spine, while turning his head in my direction and fixed his phony eyes on me. I moved in hesitantly, leading with just my index finger as if I were about to gently touch a single key on a piano. As I pressed into his skin, my finger did not sink into the booty as I expected. Instead, it bent back a little at the knuckle. His butt had no give. It felt like a boulder wrapped in football leather.
Corey said he paid the Duchess $1,100 to inflate his butt almost a decade ago, but their relationship goes back further than that. Corey met the Duchess when he still went by his birth name, during the summer of 1994 at the now defunct gay club the Waterfront. It wasn’t until after the Duchess made his transition into a her that she became known for giving butt shots, likely using the same underground techniques that were used on her own body.
http://scs-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/int/v21n2/htdocs/buttloads-of-pain/corey-eubanks.jpg
Corey Eubanks isn’t the slightest bit bashful about his illegal butt shots and the body they gave him. Here he is showing off his hams in a super low-cut wrestling leotard at Collins Park on Miami Beach.
“Five people I knew at that time had it done by Duchess,” Corey said. “One of the girls was like a board. She had it done and she got a little bump back there. My friend let me know who did those five people and that made me think, Maybe I could just do it on the top? I wanted my thighs to look thick in shorts and I wanted a butt that looked good.”
Corey told me that the Duchess performed the procedure on him nearly a decade ago. His backside is considered a true ass-terpiece in a town like Miami, where, as a result of competition between thousands of people who will never be happy with the way they look, the distended results of unhealthy decisions are interpreted as hallmarks of modern beauty. To get the masterwork at the top of Corey’s legs, he believes he had no other option.
“The reason people back then wasn’t going to a place like this,” he said, looking behind him at the plastic-surgery office where he was getting lipo in just an hour, “was because we didn’t have fat transfer. All they had was a pad they’d put in your butt. It looked fake. No one wanted that compared to the butt-shot look. Plus, you didn’t hear about ridiculous episodes or death. I didn’t know anybody who that had happened to.”
Of course, things change. As Dr. Mendieta had told me, it can take years for the dreadful side effects of butt injections to rise to the surface. Corey, as confident as he is about his butt, is certainly not in the clear. Any day he could wake up with polyps or lesions or ulcers on his backside. Even if they don’t cause him any direct medical harm in the future, butt injections have already almost landed him in prison.
“It’s messed up if somebody’s stuff goes wrong,” Corey said, when I asked him about his and the Duchess’s legal troubles. “But what if it goes right? What is Duchess, then? A god?”
Just then, a blond woman dressed in scrubs poked her head outside of the front door of Body Care to call upon Corey. It was time for his lipo, a procedure that would require him to be off his feet for days, take a cocktail of medications, and wear a girdle so that after they cut him open and sucked out his fat, his stomach fluids would leak from the wounds. Before he went in, I asked him if, like the Duchess, he too was addicted to body modification.
“Addiction was never an issue for me,” he said. “This is the last one. After this I’m going to stick to eating good and working out.”
http://scs-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/int/v21n2/htdocs/buttloads-of-pain/seven.jpg
King of Diamonds dancer Seven was proud of her illegal injections. She explained, “When I first got it, it was heavy. I wasn’t used to walking, because I had silicone in my butt. But after a month of massaging and moving it, it became me very quickly. Then it was all love.”
On one of my last nights in Miami, I visited a notorious strip club called the King of Diamonds. Thanks to shout-outs from rappers like Rick Ross, Lil Wayne, and Drake, the club has become world-famous for the gargantuan butts of its dancers. After seeing the aftermath of Oscarina’s injections and learning about the intricacies of pumping from an insider like Corey, I wanted to see the actual product in action.
At the club, I found myself gawking through a flurry of green dollar bills at the immense hams on a sweet, redbone girl—known to clubgoers as Seven—as she writhed up and down a chrome pole that seemed to extend into the heavens. The bass thumped so loud on Rick Ross’s “Uoeno,” the flesh of her ass rippled with every kick drum like that cup of water in Jurassic Park. And for the pièce de résistance, during the last moments of her set, Seven wrapped her meaty, greased-up cheeks around the chrome beanstalk and slid them down to the floor like molasses dripping down the stem of a fork. As the song switched and the barker called another lady hauling a wide load up to the stage, a kid in a bow tie hustled in to sweep up Seven’s freshly fallen dollar bills into a plastic pail already overflowing with dirty money.
At any other strip club in any other town, Seven’s butt would have been touted as the eighth wonder of the world. They would have brought in the Army Corps of Engineers to study the structural fortitude of that butt and how it ended up on such a small frame. But in Miami, at the King of Diamonds, it was just one teardrop in an ocean of ass. The secret to her behind was no secret at all. Like so many girls in Miami and across America, she’d made a Faustian pact with beauty a year and a half ago.
After her rousing set, I met Seven in a tawdry private office in the back of the club decorated like something out of a blaxploitation adaption of Scarface. She was giddy to talk about her illegal injections and how they had changed her life. To hear her tell it, getting her butt pumped was one of the best decisions she’d ever made.
“I got my butt done on a Tuesday,” she said. “I came back to work on a Friday and made triple the amount it cost in one night. My money went from regular stripper to superior stripper.”
I asked her if I could see it up close. In an instant, she turned, crouched, spread her cheeks, and shook her ass down to the floor. It occurred to me in that delirious moment that maybe her ass was one giant metaphor for Miami—perhaps even all of America, maybe even the human soul itself. Seven’s shapely bottom was gorgeous and alluring on the outside, but underneath lurked something dark and noxious.
My fears were confirmed when she stood up and let me give it a squeeze. It looked like heaven, but it felt like I was groping a gravestone.

[natina]

Transgender Surgery Addict On A Quest For Plastic Perfection


PLASTIC-obsessed Katella Dash has spent £60,000 ($100,000) on cosmetic surgery to look like a blow up doll. Blonde Katella, who has enormous 38H breasts, wants more silicone implants to reach extreme proportions. The massage therapist says she wears make-up 23 hours each day and spends four hours getting ready each morning. Incredibly, Katella was born male but underwent gender reassignment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TThHtqTXQs0

[natina]

Plastic Surgery Addict Has Had 75 Illegal Cosmetic Operations


Surgery addict Monique Allen, 58, is registered disabled and can't walk after destroying her body with an estimated 75 illegal backstreet operations. The transgender retired government worker estimates she has had up to 12 litres of dangerous silicon pumped into her body since she was in her early twenties. Now Monique wants to speak out about the addiction that could have killed her.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPo0FHU28i8


Transgender woman left disabled and horrifically disfigured by her plastic surgery addiction warns of dangers of 'quick fixes' and backstreet doctors
Monique Allen has had around 12 litres of liquid plastic pumped into her
Has had around 75 backstreet operations
Now has 38FFF breasts
Had gender reassignment age 22
Now registered disabled and struggles to walk due to surgery
Operated on by infamous doctor John Reginald Brown aka Butcher Brown
Spent more than £100,000 having silicon removed


A surgery addict who was left disabled and disfigured after almost 100 unregulated cosmetic procedures now wants to speak out about the dangers facing unsuspecting women desperate for a quick fix.
Monique Allen, who has had more than 200 hundred plastic surgeries, became obsessed with pumping liquid plastic into her body and estimates she has injected almost 12 litres during 75 backstreet ops.
Over the years Monique, 58, has had a staggering 23 nose jobs and nine breast augmentations - taking her to size 38FFF.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2397843/Transgender-Monique-Allen-left-disabled-plastic-surgery-addiction-warns-women-dangers-quick-fixes-backstreet-doctors.html

[natina]

'I'm fun, outgoing, and I love being glamorous. I've had two eyelifts, I had one upper eye job, I've had more than 20 nose jobs, I've had my lips injected 20 times, I've had silicone removal eight to 12 times, eight breast jobs, sculpting of breasts and ass eight times, re-sculpting of breasts four times,’ Monique proudly states.

The total cost of Monique’s procedures comes to over $200,000 (about £121,795).

Monquie says her obsession with going under the knife began after undergoing gender reassignment surgery.

'I was raised here in Orange County, I had a traditional Middle Class upbringing; mother, father, sister, doggies, kitties... I knew at three years old what I was.

‘I didn't know there was a name for it, I didn't know there was a surgery for it, but I knew that I was a girl.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2556817/Silicone-injected-buttocks-leaked-legs-Dancer-200-operations-left-crippled-addiction-cosmetic-surgery.html

[natina]

Dr Dennis Dass discusses the raising popularity of butt injections, both legal and illegal. While Dr Dass discusses the dangers of injecting hydrogel solutions into the body, he illustrates the procedure of the Brazilian butt injections that injects unwanted fat gathered from other areas of the body using liposuction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Rn8gOBfO4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Rn8gOBfO4

[natina]

liposuction / lipo procedure with Dr Ayman Shahine best liposuction,brazilian butt lift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d3yh6n6bjY

My Brazilian butt lift surgery with Dr. Cortes Orlando,Miami, Las Vegas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBJANZmWevU

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=88796

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=68504

[Ts RedVeX]

:yayo:
:hide-1:
:puke
:werd:

[natina]

Dr. G: Medical Examiner (http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/)Season 1 (http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/season-1/)Episode 5
The Chain of Life and Death


http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/
http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/

A 94-year-old woman dies in the hospital after having a convulsion. The case becomes the business of the medical examiner's office when no one will sign her death certificate. Dr. G finds no evidence of a heart attack or stroke. Could the woman's death be related to a childhood incident where she drank lie soap, or was it a complication of her recent hip surgery?
A 24-year-old man falls off his bicycle onto the street and subsequently dies. He wasn't wearing a helmet, but a witness to the accident reported that the cyclist seemed to collapse before crashing. His mother says that prior to the accident, the man was acting as if he knew he was going die. Did he die from a head injury, was his death the result of his preexisting heart condition, or could he have been engaging in high risk behaviors that his family was unaware of?
A 28-year-old stripper collapses in her home and refuses to go to the hospital. Later, she is found dead in bed. Her brother reveals that the woman used be a man, but recently had a sex change. Needle marks are found on her breasts, but no drugs are found in her system. Dr. G finds that silicone leaks from the puncture marks, but the woman had no breast implants. Had the woman been injecting her breasts with silicone, and did this somehow cause her death?

http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/
http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/
http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/
http://www.tv.com/shows/dr-g-medical-examiner/the-chain-of-life-and-death-365534/


read the comments here
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=33027



Shocking Side Effects of Black Market Butt Injections -- The Doctors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwYL1BjKmHg

One woman shares her devastating experience with illegal buttock-enhancing injections, which resulted in the amputation of her buttocks, hands and feet.

[natina]

NO SILICONE BUTT ENHANCEMENT(FAT INJECTION)

Tummy Tuck Liposuction Before and After Photo 39a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Xc5-XoS48

Dr AYMAN SHAHINE, LIPOSUCTION PROCEDURE VIDEO,BUTT LIFT VIDEO,SMART LIPO VIDEO,FAT TRANSFER VIDEO,NY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTyLIM_usro


Brazilian butt lift with Dr. Cortes atlanta, Miami, New york, Manhattan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqAnEud3MU8

[natina]

this doctor explains away all the bullshit you here from some poster here about silicone injections

Shocking Side Effects of Black Market Butt Injections -- The Doctors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwYL1BjKmHg

One woman shares her devastating experience with illegal buttock-enhancing injections, which resulted in the amputation of her buttocks, hands and feet.

Dr Oz Show - My Strange Addiction - Addicted to Buttock Injections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whn-BNHKEi4

[natina]

read the comment about silicone in your face by a member here
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=484462&postcount=5

[natina]

Busty Mannequins and an Inflated Sense of Beauty in Venezuela | The New York Times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHcwoCy_ZHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHcwoCy_ZHA

In Venezuela, women are confronted with a culture of increasingly enhanced physiques fueled by beauty pageants and plastic surgery.


look at the natural figures of these model in the music video
Trey Songz - Na Na [Official Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Gu_Yh_keE

great figures in this video also
Trey Songz - Foreign [Official Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjj2E9dwjjU

[natina]

Its true,, we as Tg's want to have a femmine figure face/ etc... Im not opposing to it,, its just when girls go overboard with it. I have had body work done and the one who performed it,, did a great job. Being a naive and young at that time in my transition , i had all these old school girls who look liked cartoons telling me oh do your face . lips, etc.. you have to have pump that ass men don't like skinny, you need your lips done they are too thin ,,,blah blah bah,,, and being so young i took attention, and thought for a second,, maybe they are right... I guess i had a angel on my shoulder who saw me through cause now all those girls who gave me that "so called" advise are now in regret and are paying to have all that silicone removed..... I dodged that bullet!


AWFUL! I know many girls who have had this same procedure done, its a scary sight to see any needle going into the chest area,, a person i know who had the same thing done had a minor complication due to the fact that she went out the same night ,, feeling a little too cute after she had it done,, other than resting and having it heal, she had some silicone leakage ,, the doctor said if it would of leaked any more it would had entered her lungs. She had a minor pneumonia. Before i got my implants i often thought about getting silicone injections instead on breat implants.. but i just found the risk tooo high and scary, sure any type of surgery is frightful , but ... THIS JUST SEEMS BEYOND.


yepits the single most dangerous thing we can do to our bodies,it wasnt that long ago 28 months actually i got pumped in toronto on a saturday night my hips ass cheeks lips forhead and around the eyes and about 3 or 4 weeks after that the silicone moved around into my tearducks and blocked them,and becasue of that everyday i woke up it took about 10 to 15 mins of warm cloths to open my eyes completely blinded and burning.i cried and cried but all that would come out was the 1500 dollars worth of silicone.i was so scared i knew i couldnt go to my doctor because its illeagal so i called dr.sony and i underwent 12 hours of exensive surgury to remove it.he cut me from ear to ear and around my forehead pulled my skin right down to my lips,thank god for him and his staff who probably saved my life.after that i was finished with any silicone in my face then a year later he did a neck lift and scraped the rest out that had fell from my chin pretty scary stuff.now i dont preach about it cause i know girls will do what it takes to look beautifull but i just want them to know the risks ive lived the bad side and walked away i was one of the lucky ones.


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=484462
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=484462
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=484462
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=484462

[natina]

GET TEMPORARY BREAST ENHANCEMENT. lasts a day

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/fashion/what-a-difference-a-day-makes.html

http://www.bustle.com/articles/37247-24-hour-breast-implants-use-saline-injections-to-temporarily-boost-your-bust

[francisfkudrow]

GET TEMPORARY BREAST ENHANCEMENT. lasts a day

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/fashion/what-a-difference-a-day-makes.html

http://www.bustle.com/articles/37247-24-hour-breast-implants-use-saline-injections-to-temporarily-boost-your-bust

If they brought the price down (a lot) on that, a lot of part time crossdressers, myself included, could have breasts for the day that they're dressing up. It would be really cool.

[SXFX]

wow some women are willing to die for the thug love.
Not sure how i feel about that. On one end......hey its just evolution weeding out the dumb. On the other...some of these girls were gorgeous before they fell for the dumb thug.
eh fuck it!

[natina]

Obsession with plastic surgery nearly kills model

A Brazilian model and beauty contestant runner-up says her obsession with cosmetic surgery almost cost her her life. Shasta Darlington reports.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/obsession-with-plastic-surgery-nearly-kills-model/vi-BBhCNjV

[natina]

"Obsession with plastic surgery nearly kills model - CNN Video"

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2015/02/16/pkg-darlington-brazil-toxic-cosmetic-surgery.cnn

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150215224816-pkg-darlington-brazil-toxic-cosmetic-surgery-00000000-exlarge-169.jpg

[natina]

SÃO PAULO, Brazil – A Miss Bum-Bum runner-up, Andressa Urach, now admits her obsession with beauty — and cosmetic surgery — almost killed her.
Urach, 27, launched her career as a model and reality TV star with a face and body sculpted in the operating room.
“I’ve had more than 10 surgeries,” she told CNN. “My nose, my cheekbones, my jaw. I injected my lips numerous times, changed my breasts twice and did liposuction two times.”
In 2012, she got second place in the uniquely Brazilian contest known as Miss Bum-Bum, or Miss Backside. Modeling contracts followed.
“I idolized my body, so it had to be perfect,” she said during the interview in the São Paulo apartment she shares with her 9-year-old son.
Her agent brought out the before-and-after pictures.
First, snapshots of a thin teenage mom nicknamed “Beanpole,” smiling and hugging her baby.
In the more recent pictures, her body fills out: pouty lips, enormous breasts and her now-famous derriere as well as voluptuous thighs.
“I had plastic surgery like going to the supermarket,” she said. “I wanted to take out ribs to have a slimmer waist. I wanted to cut off my toes to wear smaller shoes.”
Massive doses of hydrogel and PMMA
Eventually, the medical procedures took their toll.
Last November, Urach was rushed to the hospital in septic shock. She spent weeks in intensive care, then in a wheelchair.
Hoping for more curvaceous thighs, Urach had taken large quantities of anabolic steroids. Then, she injected her thighs with hydrogel and a plastic known as PMMA.
By November, the tissue in her legs was rotting. Pictures taken at the hospital show huge, gaping ulcers.
More than two months later, she is still getting her legs drained. We accompanied her on a doctor’s visit.
“Back when Andressa injected the hydrogel, she put in 10 times the amount allowed,” said plastic surgeon Felipe Tozaki. “It’s injected into the muscle and fat and skin, and it’s difficult to remove.”
After the bad publicity, authorities said they wouldn’t renew the license for hydrogel to be used in Brazil.
Now Urach is warning against excessive vanity.
“I hope those injuries, those holes can be an example to warn women that there is a huge risk. You have to respect the limits of your body,” she said.
Seeking shortcuts, finding unqualified doctors
Brazil, according to the International Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, surpassed the United States in 2013 as the country with the most cosmetic surgical procedures — 1.45 million. While American women received more breast implants than their Brazilian counterparts, Brazilians got 64,000 buttock augmentations, almost six times more than Americans.
Unfortunately, many women take shortcuts or seek doctors who aren’t qualified but are willing to try more risky procedures.
“If my doctor hadn’t been willing to put the 500 millilitres of hydrogel in each leg, I would have gone to four or five doctors, getting a little bit from each one,” Urach said.
According to the Federal Council of Medicine, there are 5,500 recognized plastic surgeons in Brazil, but nearly 12,000 doctors perform cosmetic procedures without proper training.
The demand for cosmetic procedures spikes in the summer months and especially ahead of Carnival, when many women seek a nip and tuck before they strip down to their glittery bikinis in Carnival parades.
Doctor Tozaki said the problem is cultural, but it is also medical, noting that 10% to 15% of patients “have psychiatric issues,” more specifically body dysmorphic disorder.
“They look in the mirror and they’ll always find something wrong,” Tozaki said.
“Like me,” Urach said.
After her nightmarish surgeries to remove hydrogel from her thighs, Urach said, she’ll never go under the knife again.
But she also would never go back to the way she looked before.
“I like the way I look now,” Urach said. “It’s good to take measures to improve your looks, just not excessive measures.”
By Shasta Darlington for CNN



http://fox13now.com/2015/02/16/if-looks-could-kill-obsession-with-plastic-surgery-almost-kills-model/

[natina]

Obsession with beauty almost killed Brazilian pageant runner-up

Massive doses of hydrogel and PMMA

Eventually, the medical procedures took their toll.
Last November, Urach was rushed to the hospital in septic shock. She spent weeks in intensive care, then in a wheelchair.
Hoping for more curvaceous thighs, Urach had taken large quantities of anabolic steroids. Then, she injected her thighs with hydrogel and a plastic known as PMMA.
By November, the tissue in her legs was rotting. Pictures taken at the hospital show huge, gaping ulcers.
More than two months later, she is still getting her legs drained. We accompanied her on a doctor's visit.
"Back when Andressa injected the hydrogel, she put in 10 times the amount allowed," said plastic surgeon Felipe Tozaki. "It's injected into the muscle and fat and skin, and it's difficult to remove."
After the bad publicity, authorities said they wouldn't renew the license for hydrogel to be used in Brazil.

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2015/02/16/pkg-darlington-brazil-toxic-cosmetic-surgery.cnn

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/15/health/brazil-dangerous-plastic-surgery/

[natina]

Doctor: Woman in buttocks-injection death blackmailed me


PHILADELPHIA — A doctor says a Philadelphia woman charged with murder in a client's buttocks-injection death blackmailed him after their affair.
Dr. James Taterka testified Tuesday that he met Padge Victoria Windslowe in 1993 through an online ad for a prostitute.
The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that Taterka said he gave Windslowe a car and $15,000 as veiled messages were sent to his wife or posted online.
The 45-year-old Windslowe is accused of killing a 20-year-old dancer from London during a 2011 procedure involving silicone and Krazy Glue. She has boasted that clients called her "the Michelangelo of buttocks injections."
Several exotic dancers have testified that Windslowe injected them with silicone that sometimes left them injured.
Windslowe is an aspiring rapper known as the "Black Madam" who performed cosmetic surgery on the side.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/doctor-woman-in-buttocks-injection-death-blackmailed-me/ar-BBhVEVa

[natina]

saline infusion into DD

http://www.tanyasfetishworld.com/free/


http://bdsmforbeginners.blogspot.com/2009/05/part-23-saline-infusion-inflation-play.html?zx=9dddb2e5b6c1198c


WHAT IS INFUSION PLAY?



This type of medical play - which is also sometimes called inflation play - is a temporary form of body modification where usually saline (a sterile mixture of pure salt and water - not to be confused with contact lens saline) is injected into the scrotum, labia or breasts. Sometimes other compounds are used for scrotal infusions, we will talk about that later.

The result is increased sensation and swelling. In the case of scrotal infusions we are talking serious swellings: "
How big? (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/control-tower/Content?oid=122460)
Think softball, grapefruit, and, in one scene I saw, cantaloupe". Because saline is compatible with the body, the swelling decreases over several hours or days as the saline is absorbed by the tissues.

If this interests you, you might also like to google the following related terms: Saline Injection; Saline Injection Temporary Breast Enlargement; Saline Labial Injections; Scrotal Infusion; Catheter Play



WHY DO IT?



"People who want to combine "saline" and "scrotum"
by means of an "injection" should feel free to replace
"saline" with "sulfuric acid"... such persons should
probably not reproduce, nor be allowed within
1000 feet of a school or playground"
Ellison on a bondage.com thread (http://www.bondage.com/topic_id/206911/forums/topic.html?jumpToId=4878777)



As Fleur de Lys
observed (http://missfleurdelys.livejournal.com/)
, it's popular amongst kinksters with a "medical fetish and/or lovers of CBT and pussy play" as well as kinksters interested in inflation, and also ball stretching and pumping.

[natina]

Sarina Valentina Medical Surgery

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/mxt8


Hi I'm sarina aka alexis and this is my official GiveForward donation page to help with my surgery. To give a brief background story of what is going on it started when I got silicone injections black market when I was 18. I stopped recieving them when I was 21 and I have left my body alone since without anything silicone related. If anyone is familiar with this type of procedure it is illegal in the united states to have done but due to my inexperience and the fact that these were common amongst my peers and friends to get I didn't think anything about future consequences. I've been suffering from these injections since I made this youtube video in 2011. I thought the symptoms I was having would go away but they have only progressively gotten worse especially this year. Back when I made this video I recieved all types of responses but my only option at the time was to seek surgery in mexico as I did not know any plastic surgeons in the united states. I tried going to several reconstructive surgeons which I recieved CAT scans and MRI'S. They have diagnosed what was wrong with me as a foreign material but chose not to surgically work on me at the time due to their lack of inexperience with this type of procedure. I finally found a surgeon who is extremely experienced with removing this type of foreign matter in my body. I met with him already in florida and had a consultation. His staff was extremely friendly and welcoming, He explained in my MRI that the area that is enflamed and hardened is specifically in my tailbone and lumbar region. He said the good news is that my actual gluteal area (my butt) does not have to be removed and is okay for now and still soft. My upper region around my lower back is completely hardened and feels like cement. My surgeon says he does not know the cause and says the silicone could have shifted to my lower back andcaused it to harden. He said my only option was to remove it or let it get progressively worse if I do nothing about it. I'm at a point where this is affecting my health on an extreme physical level. Previously in the past few months I have been getting "flare ups" everytime this happens I get a fever at at least 100 degrees and my lower back turns red and my lymph nodes around my body become swollen. I had a blood test done from my primary care physician and he said my bodies inflamation was over 80 percent. There was no way to treat my fever by taking a simple painkiller. He urgently prescribed me Prednisone a powerful steroid to bring down my fever and try to help with my inflamation. I am also prescribed meloxicam 15mg for inflamation and Tramadol hcl 50mg for pain relief. There are severe side effects that can occour from continual use of these medications. My doctor took me off the steroids because of potential kidney problems I could have he said if I keep having fevers and inflamations that my body can not fight off it will cause me kidney damage. I'm really afraid that my body is starting to produce an autoimmune disorder to fight off the foreign silicone. I have canceled my gym membership I have refrained from updating my website as frequently. I have stopped walking my dogs and going to dog parks and doing other physical activities that I used to enjoy such as rollerskating because I am afraid that if I bump my lower back it will set it off to be inflamed I have been in and out of the emergency room as well because there has been times that my lower back has been so stiff that I couldn't pick anything up. I have been on bed rest and very low activity and that is pretty much the state I am in 90 percent of the time. My surgeon doctor Gallerani ( http://www.drgallerani.com) said he could make a butterfly incision in my lower back to remove the hardened silicone. The reason why I am in desperate need of help is because my job as an adult entertainer requires me to be very physical and in good health. I have also been out of work with forms of entertainment because of my physical health state.I have exciting new plans for when I get better for my website etc. I would really appreciate any help possible if you truly enjoy seeing any of my content and would like to see more after my recovery. I've learned a lot from my mistake and I really need help with this if there is anything I can do to repay any of you don't hesitate to contact me on twitter or instagram. I'm going to include pictures here of what my back looks like during my inflamations these can come at any time randomly and have been affecting me more and more often. Thank you again so much love Sarina/Alexis.

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/mxt8



http://www.sarinavalentina.com/
http://www.sarinavalentina.com/
http://www.sarinavalentina.com/
http://www.sarinavalentina.com/

[natina]

silicone injection issues

silicone pumping issues

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Fucking disgusting

[natina]

Transgender Shows Off Her New Face After Surgery Went Wrong

Rajee Narinesingh was born a male and somehow he felt uncomfortable with himself and had a s3x change surgery to make him look like a woman. Unfortunately, he contacted a fake surgeon and the result of Rajee’s face will make you feel sorry for her. Her bre*asts nko?


http://newsprompts.blogspot.com/2015/04/transgender-shows-off-her-new-face.html

[natina]

is RODRIGO FERRAZ dead from synthol?


http://www.sportsgrid.com/video/synthol-man-is-back-and-this-time-hes-talking-about-how-he-almost-lost-his-arms/


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577998/Real-life-Popeye-doesnt-eat-spinach-injects-potentially-lethal-cocktail-oil-ALCOHOL-grow-monster-arms.html


bump it causes its hot



Synthol



Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ
YouTube - Synthol Abuse definitely not a bodybuilder RODRIGO FERRAZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suvlx3ehJ4)




Synthol Man Strikes again
YouTube - Synthol Man Strikes again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVKjXuYzBjo)

[natina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXbXQ_UTCgc

[jamesedwards]

wtf WHY WHY WHY!!!!! SMH



popeye arms

http://boingboing.net/2007/05/14/body_builders_inject.html


http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg
Body builders inject "Popeye" oil for giant biceps


Some body builders are injecting themselves with a posing oil called Synthol, which acts like a silicone injection and causes their arms to puff up like Popeye's:

http://craphound.com/images/popeyeoil.jpg Synthol, which is a mixture of triglyceride oils and benzyl alcohol, was originally intended as a form of “posing oil” for bodybuilders. When injected into a muscle, however, the body is slow to break it down, so giving an inflated appearance... “Also, because it gives a fast swelling, you will get cramp from a squashing of the nerve. Then you can get crushing of the actual blood vessels and blood flow cut-off.” Some authorities in the US have said bodybuilders also risk giving themselves a pulmonary embolism, which can be fatal, by injecting synthol directly into a major blood vessel.

<A href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1782095.ece">Link (via We Make Money Not Art (http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/))
Update: Mark sez, "The bodybuilder in you picture is Gregg Valentino (http://www.greggvalentino.net/). He denies taking Synthol (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460345) in much the same way Lance Armstrong points out he has never tested positive. Steroid abuse by American kids is on the increase, just as they are doing less sport. Are they emulating celebrities? Stallone was recently busted for having illegal Human Growth Hormone, while Anna-Nicole Smith also took HGH. Gene doping, meanwhile, is already with us. (http://www.whosportwhat.com/)"

[natina]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?67675-Ok-so-whats-WRONG-with-this-picture

[Hemi Royd]

I always say,to those that alter their body,be prepare to face the consequences
You were given a body,leave it ,,just they way it is,Surgeons are nothing,but
butchers,and injecting all sort of chemicals,can backfire!

[natina]

New surgery helps repair botched buttock injections

NEW YORK -- Cut-rate cosmetic procedures can have terrible consequences, and now one young woman who suffered from botched buttock injections is telling her story in the hope it will help others.
CBS2 New York's (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/06/17/butt-augmentation-reversal-surgery-sophelay-ouk/) Dr. Max Gomez spoke to 30-year-old Sophelay Ouk about her agonizing ordeal.
"I was very insecure a year and a half ago, insecure with myself. Looking in the mirror, I wasn't happy with who I saw," Ouk said.
Plus, she said her boyfriend wanted a "dream girl" with a curvier behind. So in early 2014, she went to what looked like a clinic in her home state of Rhode Island to have about a half-gallon of liquid silicone injected into her buttocks.

http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/06/18/8f71df7c-46b9-4dc7-8e8d-02da040c710f/thumbnail/220x140/78d1efe7b2ffb2337b828fcb6be0e923/screen-shot-2015-06-18-at-2-04-31-pm.png

Sophelay Ouk
CBS New York
"After he had finished the procedure I started to feel dizzy and short of breath. My heart was pounding, felt like it was going to come out of my chest," Ouk said. "I honestly thought I was going to die."
MRI scans show the extent of what was supposed to be silicone in the young woman's backside. In reality, the injected material could have been anything from crazy glue to mineral oil. Worse yet, doctors say it won't stay just in the injection area.
"It's going to spread and it's going to continue to embolize. It's going to go down her legs. It's going to go up her back. The skin is going to darken and the skin is probably going to die one day," said Dr. Tansat Mir of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.
The substance also traveled to Ouk's lungs and led to almost 50 hospitalizations for pneumonia in the past year and a half. That can't be removed, but in a newly developed surgical procedure designed to preserve as much of her skin as possible, Dr. Mir and a team at Lenox Hill will try to remove some of what's in her buttocks.
This week, Gomez reports, they began a painstaking two-stage process to cut out the silicone-filled scar tissue. The goal is to reduce the huge burden on the young woman's immune system.

http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/06/18/7bda90f8-ddfa-4a7a-bdc2-74bbef370af1/thumbnail/220x140/e869a44f02016186fe070c6442b1a233/screen-shot-2015-06-18-at-2-21-51-pm.png

Sophelay Ouk's MRI scan shows white streaks from botched silicone injections.
CBS New York
"The white cells in the immune system, it gets focused in the buttock, which prevents it from going to other places to fight infection," Dr. Mir said.
Despite her serious complications, Sophelay Ouk is more fortunate than some. In several cases, patients have died (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/padge-victoria-windslowe-black-madam-convicted-of-murder-in-fatal-buttocks-injection/) after botched amateur injections (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/denise-rochelle-ross-in-illegal-silicone-butt-injection-death/).
Ouk said she knows she'll never be completely cured, and she hopes other young women will learn from her mistake.
"I want girls to just really love who you are and just, you know, don't listen to what other people say," she said. "Make sure you ask for a license, ask for certificates and make sure that person is in fact a real surgeon."
She said the man who injected her claimed he was a doctor, and looked like one with a white coat and business card. But when she returned to the so-called clinic after she got sick, it was closed up, all the furniture was gone and there was no sign of the doctor.
Gomez advises anyone considering a medical procedure, including cosmetic treatments (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/latest-trends-in-plastic-surgery/), to verify a doctor's credentials with the state health department.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched-buttock-injections-repair-surgery/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched-buttock-injections-repair-surgery/

[natina]

SILICONE is being pumped into the cheeks,buttucks ,thighs,cocks,chest chin and forehead....

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?51083-post-silicone-pumping-video-s-here!

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?51083-post-silicone-pumping-video-s-here!/page12





http://dallasdenny.com/Writing/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Dangerous-Curves-Ahead-a10.pdf


http://dallasdenny.com/Writing/2015/06/11/dangerous-curves-the-trouble-with-injectable-silicone-2014/

http://www.local10.com/news/2200263/detail.html


http://www.local10.com/news/2216275/detail.html

http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm
Solid silicone is used to augment or reconstruct the cheeks, the chin, the brow bone, calves, pectoral areas for men, as a replacement for lost digits, testicles and for buttock augmentation. It is also used for joint replacements, rotary cuffs, and sockets -- as well as a multitude of other medical uses.

Liquid silicone is not approved for injection into the body for cosmetic applications but is approved for intra-ocular use for retinal tamponades. Detached retinas can cause bleeding and blindness and silicone oil injections are used to help this. It is, however, not approved to sculpt the lips, cheeks, buttocks, face, etc. However since the oils (i.e. Silikon 1000 & Adatosil 5000) are approved in general, an amendment makes it so physicians are allowed to use approved drugs and devices off label as they see fit.

Unfortunately, silicone


about silicon oils
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/727/Tilleman05.html


Silicon and Cosmetic Implants
A major controversy surrounds exposure to silicon, in particular silicone breast implants, and a possible role in autoimmune disorders, including scleroderma.

The major sources of concern were reports of a higher-then-average incidence of antinuclear antibodies in women who have had breast augmentation. Elevated levels of these antibodies are nearly universal in people with scleroderma. (They can also occur without the disorder, however.)

Major analyses of studies, however, have found no convincing evidence of any causal association between silicone breast implants and scleroderma or other autoimmune diseases. Implants also do not appear to increase the risk for these diseases in breast-fed babies.


http://www.nym.org/healthinfo/docs/088/doc88cause.html
Other studies have also found no significant increased risk from normal exposure to other sources of silicon, including glues, sealants, photocopying machines, and consumption of simethicone-containing antacids.

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/20969435/a-look-ahead-pumping-partiesa-disturbing-beauty-trend


Injecting Silicon would not only be stupid but pretty much physically impossible...:dead-1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

[Laphroaig]

Natina, I'm not sure why you've taken my post out of it's original thread and thus out of context in order to respond (again). But, in case you haven't seen it, my reply is below.


Natina

I'm sure all of that is very informative, unfortunately half the links don't work for me. In any case, the second line of the wiki link that I posted sums it up.

Silicon, "Not to be confused with the silicon-containing synthetic polymer silicone."

One letter makes a huge difference...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone

[jamesedwards]

GAWD daaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMM WWWWHOOOOOAAAAAAAAAA SHIT


Transgender Shows Off Her New Face After Surgery Went Wrong

Rajee Narinesingh was born a male and somehow he felt uncomfortable with himself and had a s3x change surgery to make him look like a woman. Unfortunately, he contacted a fake surgeon and the result of Rajee’s face will make you feel sorry for her. Her bre*asts nko?


http://newsprompts.blogspot.com/2015/04/transgender-shows-off-her-new-face.html

[jamesedwards]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWDDDDDDDD wWHOAAAAAAA

IMA BE REAL SHE HAS A BIG BIG BIG ASS, I AM SO ATTRACTED TO HER AND SHE HAS A PRETTY FACE. I WILL SAY THIS I KNOW IF SHE SPREAD HER ASS OPEN AND TOLD ME TO EAT IT I WOULD. I KNOW THE INJECTIONS ARE WRONG FOR HER BUT IF DAMMMMMM I WOULD LICK HER ENTIRE ASS AND EAT HER ASS HOLE AND LICK HER ASS CRACK.

881022

[jamesedwards]

I always say,to those that alter their body,be prepare to face the consequences
You were given a body,leave it ,,just they way it is,Surgeons are nothing,but
butchers,and injecting all sort of chemicals,can backfire!

You are right there are consequences. But some make it and some don't so they take their chances.

[SXFX]

WTF is up with this fat ass range?
When did fat ghetto become the rage?
I mean shit you know an ass that big she can't clean it right?
Fuck i can only imagine the level of shit left behind in the folds of her ass!
FUCK! I'm sorry that's just fucking low class low end garbage!

[jamesedwards]

Are you talking about range or rage? I'm lost.

In her defense, what do you mean her ass is to be to be clean? From what I see dude, she has a small waist and long arms and I am sure she can clean her ass. You do know women can wash from the front and back right? Your analogy doesn't make sense when you think about it. I'm sure she can clean her ass. You have the show head also a lot of women use that, hell I use it too on me the detachable one. She has a fat ass she's not 900lbs. And trust me if she couldn't wash it I would wash it for her LOL :dead:

I do applaud your thought on cleanness, that should be recognized!!! Thumbs up



WTF is up with this fat ass range?
When did fat ghetto become the rage?
I mean shit you know an ass that big she can't clean it right?
Fuck i can only imagine the level of shit left behind in the folds of her ass!
FUCK! I'm sorry that's just fucking low class low end garbage!

[SXFX]

Fat ass = ghetto fab
i'm sorry but it's just gross as fuck!
if the girl lacks the fortitude to get her ass to the gym and do some squats and build up a nice strong ass.....fuck....eeeeeeewwwwwww
the last thing that appeals to me some silicone filled puss bag on some ghetto fab girl....gross as all fuck!
Give me long strong legs, and a strong ass and flat stomach any day to this.
Fake tits...yes i can see that.....girl works hard eats right she can loose her tits.....how does a girl get a fat ass? oh yeah by eating shit food and laying around all day....
gross!

[natina]

www.bme.com


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly_Implant_Proth%C3%A8se


Poly Implant Prothèse (PIP) was a French company founded in 1991 that produced silicone gel breast implants. The company was preemptively liquidated in 2010 following the revelation that they had been illegally manufacturing and selling breast implants made from cheaper industrial-grade silicone since 2001 (instead of the mandated medical-grade silicone they had previously used). The hundreds of thousands of unapproved implants sold globally by PIP from 2001 to 2010 were found to have a 500% higher risk of rupturing or leaking than approved models, as well as being implicated in at several deaths due to systemic toxicity and several cases of induced breast cancer. The scandal, which produced fears of a massive health disaster, prompted a full recall of the company's implants by the French health ministry in 2010, by which time the company was already defunct.[2]



http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=461_1360105026

Man spends 6 years injecting silicone into his PENIS might contain content that is not suitable for all ages.

[SXFX]

Cute girls dying to be ghetto fabulous to pick up a few gang bangers with neck tats and zero future...good job ladies....WTF!

[natina]

Bullshit! South american TS/TG do this far more then African americans.

We the video black market booty on YouTube.









Cute girls dying to be ghetto fabulous to pick up a few gang bangers with neck tats and zero future...good job ladies....WTF!

[natina]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8R_5a-3UQe8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8R_5a-3UQe8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNlBEFJ3lhM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNlBEFJ3lhM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzsP4lgjzM





Bullshit! South american TS/TG do this far more then African americans.

We the video black market booty on YouTube.