Incall vs. Outcall pricing

[slinky]

A lot of escorts do both incall and outcall. Some charge more for incall, but the majority charge more for outcall. With GG escorts it's usually another $50 for outcall, but with TS escorts, the difference almost universally is HUGE (like incall $200, outcall $350).

Is there a specific reason it's so different for GG and TS escoprts, or is this just something that started by one person, and then became the industry model so everyone followed it? (Back in the day, we charged the same for incall and outcall; but usually some girls only did one and some only the other. I don't remember exactly when this new thing started?).

[TrueBeauty TS]

A lot of escorts do both incall and outcall. Some charge more for incall, but the majority charge more for outcall. With GG escorts it's usually another $50 for outcall, but with TS escorts, the difference almost universally is HUGE (like incall $200, outcall $350).

Is there a specific reason it's so different for GG and TS escoprts, or is this just something that started by one person, and then became the industry model so everyone followed it? (Back in the day, we charged the same for incall and outcall; but usually some girls only did one and some only the other. I don't remember exactly when this new thing started?).

I'm not an escort, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express (Tribute to Vicki).

I would imagine that one would charge more for outcall because you have to lose earning time by driving to the client's house. Paying for gas or taxi or parking. Maybe hiring a driver. More hassle to take toys, supplies, change of clothes, possibly more risk by going into an unknown place, etc.

Every service that I can think of off hand charges more for house calls, plumber, doctor, electrician. I guess escorting is no different in that regard.

[Ecstatic]

I agree. I've never analyzed or surveyed GG rates as I've never engaged a GG escort's services (and don't actively engage that many TG escorts' services, either, for that matter), but one thing I've noticed regarding GG escorts is that their rates are typically higher than TG escorts (though TG rates have been creeping up, and many who were asking $200 a year ago are asking $250 or $300 now), so there's less room to add on more for the outcall.

[Quinn]

I agree with TrueBeauty on this one. If I was an escort and had to travel to work – particularly in a major city like NYC or LA – a higher price would definitely seem warranted. In that type of environment, traffic and mass transit are a real pain in the ass on even the best of days.

-Quinn

[slinky]

Going back to the original post:

It's not that outcalls are more. As I said, I'm not surprised that the GG's usually get $50 or so more. That would certainly cover carfare, etc. but what makes the GG $50 differrnce vs the TS "close to 100%" difference? In other words, what accounts for the huge difference between GG's and TS's prices (not the difference between outcalls and incalls in general)?

[tslvr]

My view on the pricing situation is pretty simple; prices are getting out of control....I don't care what anyone says but several hundred for less than an hour is outrageous.

[TrueBeauty TS]

A little off topic, but I thought it was interesting...

I just did a quick look at EROS female escort prices. Most don't say what their rates are, but those that do charge much, MUCH more than the average rate for a TS. One or two were asking $1,500 an hour.

Even if they were splitting that with an escort service, that's still much higher... which seems crazy to me. It would seem that a TS (especially a funtional one) should be able to command more money than a GG. It takes much more effort to perform (as a top) and a TS can't hide the fact if they can't get hard. A GG can fake it and most guys would not know, or care.

One could argue that there is a smaller client base for TS, but then, there are less TS's than GG's as well.

It would *seem* that you guys are actually getting a BARGIN!!! :lol:

[slinky]

OK, so this is actually a much larger issue, but here goes:

1) "It would seem that a TS (especially a funtional one) should be able to command more money than a GG. It takes much more effort to perform (as a top) and a TS can't hide the fact if they can't get hard. A GG can fake it and most guys would not know, or care. "

You could make the same argument for Male escorts, but they aren't moire than GG's either. Also, many TS escorts may be "functional", but don't top, and many who are "functional" can barely get it up, keep it up. etc. and VERY few will pop with a trick.

2) You can't judge the market by those who list prices on Eros. The listed prices on Eros are also above the market for GG's, BBW's, MILFs etc. In addition, those aren't even the real prices in many cases (even the one's who specify "Not Negotiable"); a lot of $300 Eros girls are $200 girls if you reach them in other ways.

3) By and large, TS's girls' service is far inferior to GG girls service. NOTE: This has nothing to do with preference, it's just what is accepted as the norm at the current time. As it stands now, the majority of TS girls' "hours" are still not only "you cum and you're done" with the attempt to push to out as quickly as possible. And even for the one's who don't actively try to end the session as quickly as possible, it's very rare for "two pops in a session", or "an hour is an hour".

By contrast, at this point in time, GG's who don't give the full hour are actually considered a ripoff (R.O.B.), and the expecstation is 2 pops in the hour, with most girls not giving that getting "poor reviews" for that alone, even if they gave otherwise good service. Well reviewed GG's are almost universally "GFE" ( a rediculous term which stands for GirlFriend Experience; which no one can really agree on, but most guys think it mean 1) Deep French Kissing, 2) Bareback Blowjob and 3) DATY - Dining At The Y; I guess the TS equivalent is mutual BBBJ?), but very few TS's, including many of the best reviewed one's, provide all that (let's leave aside the wisdom on either side of the equation of doing such things, the point is that the market factors them in on the pricing level).

4) The girls who are charging $1500 an hour generally speaking:

a) See many fewer clients, and a big part of what you are paying for with them is that they are only seeing like 2 guys a week

b) Have amny other alternatives than TS do. In other words, GG's who look like them can get all sorts of reasonbly paying mainstream jobs which are by and large not available to TS's.

c) On an objective scale (if there possibly can be such a thing) are better looking than the TS escorts. Hell, they are better looking than the GG escorts. To be at that level, you have to be really good looking. And I'm sure that there are TS escort who are that good looking, but you don't see them publicly advertising as TS's on places like Eros. Odds are that they are so passable that there's no way the are going to blow their own shit up by plastering their photos on Eros. Just like there are GG escorts who get $5,000 a night, but they aren't on Eros, either.

5) TS's are still minorities, and minorities always get paid less. I'm not being a racist, just reflecting the truth about our racist society. WOC GG's get less also. WOC TS's by and large get less as well.

6) OK, I'll stop for now since you're all tired of my rants.......

[brickcitybrother]

A very interesting analysis Danny.

[dj4monie]

I'm not sure why a TS should charge more or less than a GG.

1) T* usually make it known if they "go both ways" or strictly top/bottom. For T* passablity is likely the most important factor in choosing a provider, eye candy as it were.

GG's some do anal, some squirt, some don't do GFE/PSE and I'm sure the same goes for T* girls.

2) YMMV.... Seems me price is TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE. Alot of providers will not admit to it, but obivously somebody is lying.

America is unqiue in the provider market because -

a) Its only legal in ONE state and they are largely in unincorperated areas of Neveda (closest being the Parhrump brothels to LV)

b) Because its illegal and the fact you could not openly discuss it with just ANYBODY, its socially unacceptable, especially to GG's.

c) T* prices are lower because demand is lower. I dare any of the top T* providers to compare income with the Top 5 GG providers in the industry.

GFE is totally subjective as well...

"GFE" is best found in Asia and South America.

That is reported by several "mongers"

In fact, I'll say your odds on getting "10" quality GFE outside the US is about 2:1.

80% of US providers are 100% about the money, that includes T*

Of course your appearance, behavoir and hygene are going to effect not only final price, but length of time spent and even how many "shots on goal".

Let's face it alot of these women would rather not be with some goofy, fat and smelly person and that includes T*s.

How much is your time and body worth?

You charge whatever the market will bear. In the US, its a grip. Elsewhere in the world its 40-50% less if you know where to look and the product is just as good if not better in alot of cases.

The information is out there if you look for it.

[slinky]

dj,

One thing I'll disagree about: the "outside the US" stuff. Firstly, it's usually a hell of a lot less than 50% of US costs. As well it should be: if you're in a place where the cost of living/average wage 5% of what it is in the US........

What that also leads to is the "better quality: outside the US. You have to compare apples to apples. If you're spending $100 in some third world country, it's probably equivalent to one month's wages for an average worker. If you gave some escort (TS or GG) in the US $3,000, you'd probably get a hell of a good session too; or at least you'd certainly both expect that, and be able to find that if you tried. I'm sure if you simply went to any of the TS parties out there with $3,000 to spend, you'd find a great looking TS who would show you a great time (and before anyone jumps down my throat, I didn't say you could pick any girl you want, or that all TS's at these parties are working girls, blah, blah, blah).

I'll agree taht for most 1st world guys budgets, they can afford a much better girl in these places than in the US, but I'm also saying that it's a class thing, and that by going abroad, you're changing yourself temporarily from "middle class" to "upper class". this isn't just for hookers, it's for everything you do in these places. most of these same guys could afford the same appartment overlooking the ocean, etc. which the stay in in these places back home, either.

PS "c) T* prices are lower because demand is lower. I dare any of the top T* providers to compare income with the Top 5 GG providers in the industry. "

I think you under estimate. Perhaps it's the top 1,000? 10,000?

[dj4monie]

I see your points -

I'm looking at this from a "black perspective" as well.

However unfair it may be, I compare T's to GG's in every area but where it counts the most. Your still having intercourse and for GG's its optional, for T's is mandatory (anal sex).

To be FLATLY HONEST, I'm mainly interested in T's because of the pleasure I get from having anal sex with a woman (pitching, not catching) and MAYBE the postibility (sp?) of a BJ being better from a T campared to a GG, which Im still not totally convinced even with my limited experience.

In a relationship with a pre-op for example I might be more "open-minded" about other aspects of sexuality, but not with a T* provider...

The medium income for a single person in Los Angeles' poorest areas is about $8,000. That works out to about $700 a month.

Brazil isn't a 3rd world country. Outside of its major cities it not any worst than some of our poorest areas of the US.

The dollar is just stronger vs the reala and even Argentina's AR Peso, in fact about 2:1.

AR School Teachers make about $500 US a month

One of the top providers in the US is Air Force Amy and her income is somewhere over $100,000 a year as she doesn't do sessions less than an hour and seldom for less than $700.

Sorry but I'm not driving 300+ miles to Reno to bang ARA for $700 for 30 mins.

Just as I'm not going to pay a local provider $250 for an hour when I get service just as good if not better in Rio, Sao Paulo or Buenas Ares. Hell even Germany or Czh Republic.

If I spend $3,000 I could get a month or longer with somebody like this -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/djfourmoney/karoldionapre.jpg

In fact it wouldn't cost anywhere near that much if she was into me...

And I say BETTER because no US provider is going to give you "extras" period. In brothels its not really allowed because everything is on a timer.

In private houses your chances of getting extras is slim and none, not impossible, just not likely.

I can have sex with 2 different women, have one of them spend the night and well into the next day with me for about $300-350US. I say better, because not only is it real GFE but the only down sides is you have to travel (no big deal) and you have a langauge problem (no big deal).

And the quality is just as good because UNLIKE most US white women, Brazilans and Argentinans have latin and european blood. Meaning they have thin bodies with ass for days. Not all are well endowed in the breast area but I mind implants if they are well done.

I can also get my T action down there for alot less and the quality is equal.

I should also mention Im not going just for the P4P action but the non-pro action as well.

I'm not locked into being with a T, in fact its been pushed WAY down the list of things to do actually. Its time for me to move on because I want a wife and family and a T can not give that to me and finding one that passable on all levels is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE.

Not hard to talk a non US woman into Anal sex.... Best of both and no need to deal with the BS concerning dating T's anyway.

That is where I am at...

(That picture is a TS Escort from Rio by the way....)

[AllanahStarrNYC]

The buttom line of this whole topic is that we live in a capitalist society and if you price a service or object at $1.00 or $1,000,000 and a certain consumer is willing to pay for it-then there is a market for it.

If you can command the fee- then that is really all there is to it.

Not everyone can afford a certain car, or home, or clothes- so why should anyone expect all escorts to be priced the same? There are different markerts for different consumers.

[BeardedOne]

The buttom line...

Tell me you didn't say "buttom" on purpose. :lol:

No one has addressed this from the point of view of the 'operating expenses' yet.

From my own personal experiences: One girl charges $250 an hour for 'outcall', but I am covering meals, hotel, etc.

Another charges $300 for 'incall', but she is visiting the area and it's her hotel suite, airfare, meals, and local transit. Not at all unreasonable to charge more to offset those expenses.

As with all things, it varies from situation to situation. As does what I'm willing/able to pay. When there are more zeros in the hourly rate than were in my high school graduating class, I stay home and rent a viddie.

[tsntx]

Going back to the original post:

It's not that outcalls are more. As I said, I'm not surprised that the GG's usually get $50 or so more. That would certainly cover carfare, etc. but what makes the GG $50 differrnce vs the TS "close to 100%" difference? In other words, what accounts for the huge difference between GG's and TS's prices (not the difference between outcalls and incalls in general)?

maybe the size of the clit?

[BeardedOne]

In other words, what accounts for the huge difference between GG's and TS's prices (not the difference between outcalls and incalls in general)?

maybe the size of the clit?

*Snark!* :lol: :lol:

Now that you mention it, that could weigh in on the differences I mentioned above. :wink:

[Looking 4 Now]

A lot of escorts do both incall and outcall. Some charge more for incall, but the majority charge more for outcall. With GG escorts it's usually another $50 for outcall, but with TS escorts, the difference almost universally is HUGE (like incall $200, outcall $350).

Is there a specific reason it's so different for GG and TS escoprts, or is this just something that started by one person, and then became the industry model so everyone followed it? (Back in the day, we charged the same for incall and outcall; but usually some girls only did one and some only the other. I don't remember exactly when this new thing started?).
In NYC most tgirls prefer to do incall, so there losing time and travel expense when doing outcall

A large % of GG's don't do incall. They hire a driver for the night and go from guy to guy So unlike the tgirl there really not going out of their way, there doing what they prefer

Most tgirls who escort like what they do. The last couple of tgirls i've seen have regular jobs and still escort and they like it. there seems to be an overabundance of tgirls in my area of NYC so it's not to hard to find a real nice girl at a resonable price

On the other hand not many gg's escort and many of them are losers or drug addicts and post fake pics. I can find great tgirl for 150. If I saw a real girl for that price who knows what I would get. There are so many bad gg escorts out there It really opens up the door for the better escorts to charge a lot more money

That's just my 2 cents


































nyc

[slinky]

I see your points -

I'm looking at this from a "black perspective" as well.

However unfair it may be, I compare T's to GG's in every area but where it counts the most. Your still having intercourse and for GG's its optional, for T's is mandatory (anal sex).

To be FLATLY HONEST, I'm mainly interested in T's because of the pleasure I get from having anal sex with a woman (pitching, not catching)

I have to say that's an odd reason. You mean GG's in Brazil won't do anal? That has not been my experience.





and MAYBE the postibility (sp?) of a BJ being better from a T campared to a GG, which Im still not totally convinced even with my limited experience.


Although it sounds like a reasonable assumption, I have not found it to be the case at all. Especially when you're talking about hookers.


In a relationship with a pre-op for example I might be more "open-minded" about other aspects of sexuality, but not with a T* provider...

It sounds like you're saying you would consider bottoming with you GF but not with a hooker. I guess that's similar to hookers who only kiss their BF's (or only do anal with their BF's, or only top their BF's, or only bottom with their BFS.....)


The medium income for a single person in Los Angeles' poorest areas is about $8,000. That works out to about $700 a month.

I'm not sure it's fair to pick one of the poorest areas in this country and use that to compare to middle class in Brazil?



AR School Teachers make about $500 US a month

I think that's only in the big cities. A fair comparison is that the average NYC teacher makes over ten times that much. But that's not the real point: In real third world countries (and yes, brazil is a poor choice when holding up 3rd world countries... there are lots better like the DR and most of Latin Americia, Peru, etc) the huge difference comes below middle class like teachers. when you dip fown into the lower classes (and guess where most of the prostitutes come from?) it falls off precipitously (even in Brazil).



One of the top providers in the US is Air Force Amy and her income is somewhere over $100,000 a year as she doesn't do sessions less than an hour and seldom for less than $700.

Again, I think your numbers are wayyyyy low. Any half decent NYC internet hooker can make $100,000 a year (at $350 an hour, that's only like 1 one hour appointement a day). Middle end internet hookers in NYC pull in over double that number. And a lot of those numbers you see in the HBO specials on the Nevada brothels are pure BS. They are just thrown out there for the suckers. And it's not just in Neveda; you know when those hookers go on Howards Stern and say they get $1,000 an hour? Pure BS. I know first hand.


Sorry but I'm not driving 300+ miles to Reno to bang ARA for $700 for 30 mins.

No arguemnt from me there.



Just as I'm not going to pay a local provider $250 for an hour when I get service just as good if not better in Rio, Sao Paulo or Buenas Ares. Hell even Germany or Czh Republic.

If I spend $3,000 I could get a month or longer with somebody like this -

In fact it wouldn't cost anywhere near that much if she was into me...


But you leave out the time off from work, travel costs, etc. that severely changes the equation.


And I say BETTER because no US provider is going to give you "extras" period. In brothels its not really allowed because everything is on a timer.

In private houses your chances of getting extras is slim and none, not impossible, just not likely.

I can have sex with 2 different women, have one of them spend the night and well into the next day with me for about $300-350US. I say better, because not only is it real GFE but the only down sides is you have to travel (no big deal) and you have a langauge problem (no big deal).

And the quality is just as good because UNLIKE most US white women, Brazilans and Argentinans have latin and european blood. Meaning they have thin bodies with ass for days. Not all are well endowed in the breast area but I mind implants if they are well done.

Now that's just plain false (depending on what you mean by "extras"). There's tons of GG escorts who are good providers, GFE, etc. Hell, there's a few TS in NYC where you can get what most guys would consider a very good, GFE session for $150 (and they are latin women with nice booties).

PS I'm surprised you're calling the Brazilians "latin". Don't ever call a Brazilian a "Latina" in front of her... she'll probably cut your balls off.


I can also get my T action down there for alot less and the quality is equal.

again, no argument



I should also mention Im not going just for the P4P action but the non-pro action as well.

I'm not locked into being with a T, in fact its been pushed WAY down the list of things to do actually. Its time for me to move on because I want a wife and family and a T can not give that to me and finding one that passable on all levels is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE.

Not hard to talk a non US woman into Anal sex.... Best of both and no need to deal with the BS concerning dating T's anyway.

That is where I am at...

(That picture is a TS Escort from Rio by the way....)


Too much to go into here, but a lot of the same rasons the pro action is so much cheaper.

[slinky]

In NYC most tgirls prefer to do incall, so there losing time and travel expense when doing outcall

A large % of GG's don't do incall. They hire a driver for the night and go from guy to guy So unlike the tgirl there really not going out of their way, there doing what they prefer

Most tgirls who escort like what they do. The last couple of tgirls i've seen have regular jobs and still escort and they like it. there seems to be an overabundance of tgirls in my area of NYC so it's not to hard to find a real nice girl at a resonable price

On the other hand not many gg's escort and many of them are losers or drug addicts and post fake pics. I can find great tgirl for 150. If I saw a real girl for that price who knows what I would get. There are so many bad gg escorts out there It really opens up the door for the better escorts to charge a lot more money

That's just my 2 cents


Out of order:

Only the quicky, pumpem' and dumpem' girls and agencies hire drivers to be with one girl for the nite. The usual split for those "drvier agencies" is 30% for the girl, 30% for the driver, and 40% for the agency. But if you're going to use that as a yardstick, you're looking at the lower end (certainly satisfaction wise) to begin with. I think there are a much smaller amount of TS's working for agencies than GG's. (more on this later)

Secondly, plenty of GG's do incall. Maybe not every day or with set hours, but there are at least 500 independent incall girls in NYC as we speak (and that number is a low estimate, perhaps by an order of magnitude).

Thirdly, I agree that at $150, you may have better luck finding a great TS escort than a great GG escort. But I'd love to hear about any neighborhood where ther's an abundance of them, because I've found them to exist, but be few and far between (Woodside? Jackson Heights? Bensonherst?).

But also, at that number, you're at the "poor service or poor looks or both" range of GG's wwhich may be why your experince is with the driver agencies?

[slinky]

The buttom line of this whole topic is that we live in a capitalist society and if you price a service or object at $1.00 or $1,000,000 and a certain consumer is willing to pay for it-then there is a market for it.

If you can command the fee- then that is really all there is to it.

Not everyone can afford a certain car, or home, or clothes- so why should anyone expect all escorts to be priced the same? There are different markerts for different consumers.

I agree, but the question is :"Is the market for outcall really double the market for incall?" (because that's what th eprevalent pricing seems to be), and if it is, why does it differ so much from the GG market?

My personal guess is (like Looking 4 Now says) that most tgirls strongly prefer incall, and the outcall price is a simply a "fuck it" price, at which point they will do outcall because at that price "it's an offer they can't refuse".

[slinky]

No one has addressed this from the point of view of the 'operating expenses' yet.

One reason why that "can't be it": the costs of travel, hotel, etc. are the exact same for TS's and GG's, so it can't account for a differnce in pricing between GG's and TS's.

However, (and I'm sure at this point eveyone with thank me for not doing the whole economic analysis; have I broken the HA record for consecutive boring posts yet?) the actual costs for incall and outcall from the service end are really about the same, because for every plus on one, there'a minus as well.

[slinky]

maybe the size of the clit?

Now you're taunting me.

Maybe I should post more. :sticks tongue out at tsntx and gives her a rasberry:

[Shining Star]

Several years ago the average incall rate for trannies was $100/half, $150/hour and $200 or $250 for outcall (within Manhattan). The last rate was provided both provider and date were in Manhattan, if the girl was coming into the city the rate may have been slightly higher to allow for transportation costs.

Over the years incall rates have risen on average to $200 - $250 (or more) for incall, with outcalls starting at $350.

Some of the rate increase can naturally be attributed to inflation , the rest is many girls taking what they can get. Girls read the reviews also, and if one girl is getting $300 an hour, many others will try to as well.

Yes, in some cases some trannies have moved their incall rates so high that out calls would have to approach $400 or more to equal what they did several years ago, and probably some top reviewed trannies can get that much, but by and large it seems most are not willing to pay that much money.

For some trannies out calls can be problems so they prefer not to do them or charge more. Hotels in particular are problematic if the girl is not passable and or gets bothered by front door staff and or security.

As for rate disparity between GG's, trannies and men. No other class of "workers" in the United States can command the sort of money Tier I/Class A GG's make. We're not speaking about ghetto rats from the back of the Village Voice, but former and or current Penthouse Pets/Playboy models/porn stars, or just very attractive and cultivated young women. These are the sort of women men lust after, and those with the funds will hire. Such girls usually go for any where from one to several thousand, but it is a world of difference in terms of service than what one receives from the average trannie. It is not unusual for these girls to be hired for trips,flown across country and or around the world. These girls also function as "escorts" and will be the kind of date on a man's arm at a wedding that makes everyone's jaw drop. Of course such girls are at ease in certian circles and "know how to behave" so there is no risk of drama or scandal.

Saudi royalty and other Middle Eastern men are well known for importing GG girls by the plane load and paying MAJOR money. Many girls literally sit around a "harem" with other imports and may never get to do any "work" but hang around in luxury and get to go on shopping sprees. In fact some girls stay quite along time.

Aside from certian male porn stars/models most men actually earn less per date than trannies. Probably because there are it seems so many "gay for pay" and other guys working that the market is quite saturated. IIRC models on the website "Rent Boy", list rate information.

Think one reason trannies do not reach the level GG's do in price is the well known expecation the service is not going to last one hour and many of the agreed upon services will not happen. Many post op girls who switch over to working GG ads get a very rude awakening when a date wants to tap that ass for 59.9 minutes. Guys are not going to pay $$$ for a quick half baked hand job or suckee-suckee. That may be good foreplay, but the man will want what he came to get, and usually means to have it.

IMHO many guys who see trannies are into the fantasy aspect of it, thus are willing to pay more than the going rate for a male. My proof of this theory came when watching a news program on trannie working the Meat Packing District. There was this 6ft muscular black guy in a belly shirt and tight short skirt with heels, and he was cleaning up!

[slinky]

I think it won't come as much of a surprise that I agree with much of those statemnts.

[MarylandsMighty]

I tell you for your dollar you cant beat Africa.

I mean I didnt have any condoms with me, but when was I gonna be in Kenya again?




(just kidding)