What happens to tgirls when they get old(er)?

[dc_guy_75]

Seeing the Kimberly Devine update got me thinking.

Once the club scene/escorting is over, I presume that many girls may have SRS and live their life as normal women.

It seems that many transwomen blend in better with the general population as they get older, especially as they near 50, when many ggs testosterone levels spike.... some of the older women I've seen are very passable, possibly because they aren't scrutinized very closely... I find what generally gives them away is that they're not wearing age-appropriate clothing (and I'm not talking about the mace on the subway video).

In addition, they've been on hormones for many years if not decades.

Unfortunately, many tgirls have bypassed working on legit careers or higher education to pay for their needs at the time, I picture nursing or being a real estate agent good career choices...

Maybe I'm generalizing, but I'm just wondering what the next step is for many of these girls... any thoughts?

PS- Megan Chevaliar seems to of pulled it off well...

[Coroner]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

http://lafiaca.com/wp-content/angelamerkel.jpg

[jessicamoore]

WELL FOR MYSELF IM PUSHING 40 SO IM SAYING MY MONEY AND I PLAN ON GIONG BACK TO COLLEGE OR FASHION SCHOOL
AND I HOPE TO OWN A BUSINESS MAYBE A NITECLUB FOR GAYS AND TRANSPEOPLE O GET INTO THE HOTEL BUSINESS

BUT FASHIN IS MY PASSION SO GOD WILLING ILL BE OKAY AS I GET OLDER

[peggygee]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/goya-1.jpg


:popcorn

[fred41]

they get set upon and eaten by the younger tgirls?

[Dino Velvet]

...

[flabbybody]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

http://lafiaca.com/wp-content/angelamerkel.jpg

LOL
is she really chancellor of Germany?
how did she get any votes

[jessicamoore]

I STILL LOOK YOUNG SO YOUNGER TGIRLS R NOT A THREAT

[jessicamoore]

YOUNGER TGIRLS RENT THINKING ABOUT NOTHING BUT HORMONES WEAVE N TRADE

[Bunzee]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

[praetor]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

http://lafiaca.com/wp-content/angelamerkel.jpg



Or Michelle Bachelet, Chile's President.

[cadcad]

they probably do the same thing that every porn star does when their looks go.

Hopefully they planned for it and their past as a porn star doesn't fuck them too bad out of another career.

[TsVanessa69]

Hmm, I'm getting older, and better!
Soo an older girl can be becutiful, with more expierence and less childish bullshit.

[TsVanessa69]

oops

[Nicole Dupre]

We laugh at GGs because they age so much more quickly than we do. :D

[muhmuh]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

ossiendlagerung != prossieendlagerung

[Coroner]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

ossiendlagerung != prossieendlagerung

Sind wir jetzt Ösis oder Ossis? Die letzteren sollen angeblich Ostdeutsche sein. :lol:

[peggygee]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

[Tgirlhottie1]

Hmm, I'm getting older, and better!
Soo an older girl can be becutiful, with more expierence and less childish bullshit.

Well put, girl ! ! ! !

[unctrld1]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

You are not "just a regular Black woman." From what you have revealed to us through your many intelligent posts you are outstanding.

In addition, "regular" Black women don't make it in America. All Black women need a little something more than regular just to get by. At least that's been my observation.

Uhuru Sister Peggy.

[Nicole Dupre]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

With all due respect, after the 3 or so years you've been here, I really have to question what the big motivation is behind all of the endorsing you do of SRS. I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing. At this point, I think the urgency for SRS, and even stealth, is nowhere close to what it was when you transitioned. The idea that SRS makes you "complete" is disappearing. The HBS are borderline offensive, although they were indeed all we had to legitimize our yearning to make a little progress for so long. Back in the day, the first thing they did when you said you wanted to transition was give you an orchi, which in retrospect is a very extreme course of action. In contrast, now it's generally the second to last thing girls do.

I also think stats on TS are probably some of the most inaccurate of all. Most TS aren't coming forward to actually say they're TS, unless they work in the adult industry where it only behooves them. In addition, most of the girls doing well in that industry, like most of the ones who regularly post here, are beating the odds of your observation. Stealth girls don't share info. Younger TS have more love and support from they're families and won't face these same struggles that the girls before them did.

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

So I dunno, Peggy. Maybe you're being helpful, but I think these anecdotes you often share are are a bit insular, if not sanctimonious at times. I have to wonder if you're not romanticizing more about being a crusader than you are being an instrument of practical change. Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.

Are there potential trappings in the sex worker lifestyle? Yes. But many GGs and gay men are up against the same thing, and no operation is the cure-all. And plenty of pre-ops, in fact, do just fine.

[peggygee]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

You are not "just a regular Black woman." From what you have revealed to us through your many intelligent posts you are outstanding.

In addition, "regular" Black women don't make it in America. All Black women need a little something more than regular just to get by. At least that's been my observation.

Uhuru Sister Peggy.

Thank you so much for that, and you're right being Black, a woman, and a
transwoman can be a challenging thing, and I can see how some would feel
that it would be easier to just throw in the towel.

But for me, I have always been determined that I would not allow my gender
or race to hold me back.

[BrendaQG]

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.


Brava I could not have said that better. Careful. Those dickless bricks have teeth. They could bite back if you are too outspoken.

That said much of what Peggy wrote is true, as we all age we slow down. No where here is as energetic as a two year old, and we all look before crossing the street. That's just part of life.

It's like asking what happens to sailors when they get odl.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'd be extremely proud, and would't dream of stealing your thunder. In fact, I'm proud of you.

But I suppose what I find to be a little unsettling is, many of the gentlemen here say things that are horrible, and you aren't speaking up for your sisters. The damage that's done to a young TS's self-esteem, who might be here observing the madness, imho outweighs the dangers of daydreaming. Furthermore, the backwards thinking that many of these men subscribe to is exactly what makes the path of the typical TS sexworker all the more treacherous.

I can't say that I'm seeing where you've addressed any of my points, but I didn't write that post as a thinly disguised challenge. From my perspective, it was more to bring the convo up to date, and to take some of the shame out of the "game".

[BrendaQG]

I can't say that I'm seeing where you've addressed any of my points, but I didn't write that post as a thinly disguised challenge. From my perspective, it was more to bring the convo up to date, and to take some of the shame out of the "game".

I agreed with most of what you said thus I did not think your points needed addressing.

Perhaps though, peggy was not the one to direct your ire at. Much more deserving would be anyone who is part of a TG organization which degrades those of us who have done sex work. Or anyone, in general, who has achieved a level of mainstream success then acts like their shit don't smell.

That's all I was saying. Just trying to be poetic about it. Guess I failed.

[peggygee]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

With all due respect, after the 3 or so years you've been here, I really have to question what the big motivation is behind all of the endorsing you do of SRS. I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing. At this point, I think the urgency for SRS, and even stealth, is nowhere close to what it was when you transitioned. The idea that SRS makes you "complete" is disappearing. The HBS are borderline offensive, although they were indeed all we had to legitimize our yearning to make a little progress for so long. Back in the day, the first thing they did when you said you wanted to transition was give you an orchi, which in retrospect is a very extreme course of action. In contrast, now it's generally the second to last thing girls do.

I also think stats on TS are probably some of the most inaccurate of all. Most TS aren't coming forward to actually say they're TS, unless they work in the adult industry where it only behooves them. In addition, most of the girls doing well in that industry, like most of the ones who regularly post here, are beating the odds of your observation. Stealth girls don't share info. Younger TS have more love and support from they're families and won't face these same struggles that the girls before them did.

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

So I dunno, Peggy. Maybe you're being helpful, but I think these anecdotes you often share are are a bit insular, if not sanctimonious at times. I have to wonder if you're not romanticizing more about being a crusader than you are being an instrument of practical change. Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.

Are there potential trappings in the sex worker lifestyle? Yes. But many GGs and gay men are up against the same thing, and no operation is the cure-all. And plenty of pre-ops, in fact, do just fine.

Nicole, if I am not mistaken the question was "What happens to tgirls when
they get old(er)?", and the followup question:


i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

Not what are "the pros and con or merits of GRS."

To those questions I shared some of my insights as an older transwoman. I
pointed out that I furthered my education, garnered marketable skills, got
clean and sober, and basically live a mainstream life.

That I had GRS was mentioned as an aside, and by no means was the main
theme of my response.

I will agree with you that GRS isn't appropriate for everyone, indeed
transitioning isn't indicated for everyone. Thus by no means am I imploring, or
encouraging anyone to have GRS as that is a very personal, and life-altering
decision that does not impact me.

I will say now, I will most likely say again in the future that it was the
appropriate course of action and the right thing for me, and is by no
means a case of :


I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing.

I will add that though I am now a middle-aged woman, that I transitioned at
a relatively young age, indeed I have been full-time nearly 40 years.

Which is yet another reason why I don't have to copy and paste responses. I
have done formal academic study on the topic of transsexuality, and I have
lived it the majority of my life.


Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.


I will also say on the point above that I feel that my record speaks for itself,
the thousands of posts that I have made on this and other sites, as well as
my own web site tell the tale. And I have always felt that it was crass to blow
your own horn about any charitable or phillantropic contributions that one has
made.

Well I'm hoping that I have sufficiently answering your concerns, and perhaps
we may all may return to addressing the topic at hand, which is "What
happens to tgirls when they get old(er)?".

[phobun]

But I suppose what I find to be a little unsettling is, many of the gentlemen here say things that are horrible, and you aren't speaking up for your sisters. You're a hypocrite. You say cruel things to people all the time (Rockabilly (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764026&highlight=lardass#764026)) and viciously attack other transsexuals using this forum or your blog (http://www.nikki-dupre.com/uncategorized/hara-bald-crossdresser/). You were even called out for your "sadism" here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764735&highlight=sadism#764735).

You often call me a homosexual, but other times you've insinuated that I'm a transsexual in denial who will begin HRT (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=759956&highlight=hrt#759956). How can you reconcile those opposing attempts to impugn me? Easy... for you it's the same thing.

Because the only thing that might separate you from the geriatric autogynephiles is that you're more of a flaming gay man with boobs. If you are a transsexual, and I seriously doubt that, then at best you're a granny tranny who is ill-at-ease with themself. You were nearly 40 years old before you started to transition... that's pretty late, and given the results, this "I'm a transsexual" mantra of yours is about as convincing as any any other leathery queen on a streetcorner insisting he's the Princess of Wales. Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true, nor does it convince others that their eyes are lying.
And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it?Hypocrite.

[Nicole Dupre]

But I suppose what I find to be a little unsettling is, many of the gentlemen here say things that are horrible, and you aren't speaking up for your sisters. You're a hypocrite. You say cruel things to people all the time (Rockabilly (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764026&highlight=lardass#764026)) and viciously attack other transsexuals using this forum or your blog (http://www.nikki-dupre.com/uncategorized/hara-bald-crossdresser/). You were even called out for your "sadism" here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764735&highlight=sadism#764735).

You often call me a homosexual, but other times you've insinuated that I'm a transsexual in denial who will begin HRT (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=759956&highlight=hrt#759956). How can you reconcile those opposing attempts to impugn me? Easy... for you it's the same thing.

Because the only thing that might separate you from the geriatric autogynephiles is that you're more of a flaming gay man with boobs. If you are a transsexual, and I seriously doubt that, then at best you're a granny tranny who is ill-at-ease with themself. You were nearly 40 years old before you started to transition... that's pretty late, and given the results, this "I'm a transsexual" mantra of yours is about as convincing as any any other leathery queen on a streetcorner insisting he's the Princess of Wales. Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true, nor does it convince others that their eyes are lying.
And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it?Hypocrite.

Ahhh, now we're back in Blanchard territory! You have that agenda and a sense of purpose! "Divide and conquer"! I love when you mix in that master race stuff with TS issues. You're HA's self-appointed Brown Shirt/SS. A true pariah! lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Blanchard#Autogynephilia_and_the_taxonomy_of_m ale-to-female_gender_dysphoria

[Nicole Dupre]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

With all due respect, after the 3 or so years you've been here, I really have to question what the big motivation is behind all of the endorsing you do of SRS. I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing. At this point, I think the urgency for SRS, and even stealth, is nowhere close to what it was when you transitioned. The idea that SRS makes you "complete" is disappearing. The HBS are borderline offensive, although they were indeed all we had to legitimize our yearning to make a little progress for so long. Back in the day, the first thing they did when you said you wanted to transition was give you an orchi, which in retrospect is a very extreme course of action. In contrast, now it's generally the second to last thing girls do.

I also think stats on TS are probably some of the most inaccurate of all. Most TS aren't coming forward to actually say they're TS, unless they work in the adult industry where it only behooves them. In addition, most of the girls doing well in that industry, like most of the ones who regularly post here, are beating the odds of your observation. Stealth girls don't share info. Younger TS have more love and support from they're families and won't face these same struggles that the girls before them did.

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

So I dunno, Peggy. Maybe you're being helpful, but I think these anecdotes you often share are are a bit insular, if not sanctimonious at times. I have to wonder if you're not romanticizing more about being a crusader than you are being an instrument of practical change. Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.

Are there potential trappings in the sex worker lifestyle? Yes. But many GGs and gay men are up against the same thing, and no operation is the cure-all. And plenty of pre-ops, in fact, do just fine.

Nicole, if I am not mistaken the question was "What happens to tgirls when
they get old(er)?", and the followup question:


i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

Not what are "the pros and con or merits of GRS."

To those questions I shared some of my insights as an older transwoman. I
pointed out that I furthered my education, garnered marketable skills, got
clean and sober, and basically live a mainstream life.

That I had GRS was mentioned as an aside, and by no means was the main
theme of my response.

I will agree with you that GRS isn't appropriate for everyone, indeed
transitioning isn't indicated for everyone. Thus by no means am I imploring, or
encouraging anyone to have GRS as that is a very personal, and life-altering
decision that does not impact me.

I will say now, I will most likely say again in the future that it was the
appropriate course of action and the right thing for me, and is by no
means a case of :


I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing.

I will add that though I am now a middle-aged woman, that I transitioned at
a relatively young age, indeed I have been full-time nearly 40 years.

Which is yet another reason why I don't have to copy and paste responses. I
have done formal academic study on the topic of transsexuality, and I have
lived it the majority of my life.


Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.


I will also say on the point above that I feel that my record speaks for itself,
the thousands of posts that I have made on this and other sites, as well as
my own web site tell the tale. And I have always felt that it was crass to blow
your own horn about any charitable or phillantropic contributions that one has
made.

Well I'm hoping that I have sufficiently answering your concerns, and perhaps
we may all may return to addressing the topic at hand, which is "What
happens to tgirls when they get old(er)?".

Not really. But it does remain consistent with the pattern I see. No biggie.

And btw, what do you think of Ray Blanchard?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Blanchard#Autogynephilia_and_the_taxonomy_of_m ale-to-female_gender_dysphoria

[Nicole Dupre]

Are you up on this stuff, Peggy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBL_controversy

[Nicole Dupre]

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

[peggygee]

Are you up on this stuff, Peggy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBL_controversy

I am indeed aware of the theories espoused by Blanchard, Bailey,
Lawrence, et al, and while I don't agree with them in totality, I feel that
there are elements of merit to it, much as the works of Benjamin
still have degrees of credibility.

In discussing and attempting to understand gender dysphoria we must
have some frame of reference. And while Blanchard and Bailey may not
have always employed the best techniques in validating and quantifying
their research, and then allowed themselves to become embroiled in
gender politics, I do applaud and encourage anyone who is willing to
attempt to bring some clarity to such a challenging subject.

:2cent

[Nicole Dupre]

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse'
To me, that's casting shade.

And I think you should talk about your research, your charitable work, etc. Why be on a pre-op porn forum and not reveal more about that stuff?

To me, there's something odd about both you and Phobun being here. Both of you in your own ways are dissidents. Neither of you are of the thinking that pre-ops are at an ok place. You're both pushing the idea that transsexuality is a dysphoria of the individual, and not the society. It reeks of heterosexism imho.

[peggygee]

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

For myself, I most definetely subscibe to a binary definition of gender - male, female.

Third gender, gender variant, gender queer are not an option gender
orientation wise for me, though admittedly I am mildly bisexual, though
that is an issue of sexual orientation moreso.

[Nicole Dupre]

Are you up on this stuff, Peggy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBL_controversy

I am indeed aware of the theories espoused by Blanchard, Bailey,
Lawrence, et al, and while I don't agree with them in totality, I feel that
there are elements of merit to it, much as the works of Benjamin
still have degrees of credibility.

In discussing and attempting to understand gender dysphoria we must
have some frame of reference. And while Blanchard and Bailey may not
have always employed the best techniques in validating and quantifying
their research, and then allowed themselves to become embroiled in
gender politics, I do applaud and encourage anyone who is willing to
attempt to bring some clarity to such a challenging subject.

:2cent

So you feel that there are true and untrue transsexuals?

Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier? Was it easier to feel at home in your own skin because people like Phobun wouldn't assign freak-status to you? Btw, what do you think of the way Phobun speaks to me? Or, let's put it another way. Even if you would absolve me of such things, does his philosophy have merit?

[Nicole Dupre]

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

For myself, I most definetely subscibe to a binary definition of gender - male, female.

Third gender, gender variant, gender queer are not an option gender
orientation wise for me, though admittedly I am mildly bisexual, though
that is an issue of sexual orientation moreso.

So the third gender is not an option. Does that make you a pseudo woman? Because you aren't a biological one. Are you one of God's imperfect creatures?

[Nicole Dupre]

One last question. If "vaginas are beautiful", aren't cocks beautiful too? And if they are, doesn't that mean a beautiful woman can have a beautiful cock? Or does a cock look ugly on a woman? Being mildly bi, what do you think? Does a cock look good on a chick?

[dc_guy_75]

Gender is definitely not binary....

Just ask the South African Olympic committee.

Are cocks beautiful? That depends on the person.

[Nicole Dupre]

Gender is definitely not binary....

Just ask the South African Olympic committee.

Are cocks beautiful? That depends on the person.

You mean on the cock, right? Do girls look less feminine with cocks, or just less capable of procreation. Do genitals define our gender?

[peggygee]

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse'
To me, that's casting shade.

And I think you should talk about your research, your charitable work, etc. Why be on a pre-op porn forum and not reveal more about that stuff?

To me, there's something odd about both you and Phobun being here. Both of you in your own ways are dissidents. Neither of you are of the thinking that pre-ops are at an ok place. You're both pushing the idea that transsexuality is a dysphoria of the individual, and not the society. It reeks of heterosexism imho.

I wil stick by my statement that by necessity or choice a fair number of
transwomen are not planning for the future.

This can even be evidenced by this thread, we are not seeing many
responses to the question "What happens to tgirls when they get old er)?".

As to your contenton that I see being pre op as a problem, again I will
maintain that you are incorrect. There are many pre op, (though perhaps
non op would be more accurate) women who are very happy with their
penis, they do not suffer any angst from it. Indeed it could be said that
they do not suffer from gender dysphoria.




And I think you should talk about your research, your charitable work, etc. Why be on a pre-op porn forum and not reveal more about that stuff?



Much like many of the other members of this and other forums, I write on
many things, some GID related, some not, but I am certain that there has
been no paucity of information from me on the topic.

Admittedly, my posts my not have dick pics, or be of a pruient nature, and
can at times be pedantic and verbose, but they are there for anyone that
wants to peruse them.

[dc_guy_75]

Most tgirls I've met relish in their femininity... I think its why many guys like tgirls, many are more girly than any gg...

As for looking less feminine with a cock?... I don't think so.

Procreation (though its likely the subconscious motivation for being turned on) is the last thing on my mind.

[peggygee]

Are you up on this stuff, Peggy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBL_controversy

I am indeed aware of the theories espoused by Blanchard, Bailey,
Lawrence, et al, and while I don't agree with them in totality, I feel that
there are elements of merit to it, much as the works of Benjamin
still have degrees of credibility.

In discussing and attempting to understand gender dysphoria we must
have some frame of reference. And while Blanchard and Bailey may not
have always employed the best techniques in validating and quantifying
their research, and then allowed themselves to become embroiled in
gender politics, I do applaud and encourage anyone who is willing to
attempt to bring some clarity to such a challenging subject.

:2cent

So you feel that there are true and untrue transsexuals?

Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier? Was it easier to feel at home in your own skin because people like Phobun wouldn't assign freak-status to you? Btw, what do you think of the way Phobun speaks to me? Or, let's put it another way. Even if you would absolve me of such things, does his philosophy have merit?

I am of the Benjamin school primarily, thus I feel that there are "true" and
untrue transsexuals. I would also daresay that I feel that some women
have transitioned solely for economic reasons, and some purely for
sexual ones.




Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier?

For me it was primarily to correct a mistake, though in some instances it
has made life easier.

As to you and Phobun, I must admit that when any two or more posters
are engaing in non-productive discourse that I attempt to avoid those
threads.

I will say that I feel that alll posters, irregardless of their gender should
be respectful of the other and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

[muhmuh]

Some of them enter politics like German chancellor Angela Merkel.

ossiendlagerung != prossieendlagerung

Sind wir jetzt Ösis oder Ossis? Die letzteren sollen angeblich Ostdeutsche sein. :lol:

nicht du angela
sie ist ein weiblicher kinderloser geschiedener evangelischer ossi

also perfekt für die union

[peggygee]

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

For myself, I most definetely subscibe to a binary definition of gender - male, female.

Third gender, gender variant, gender queer are not an option gender
orientation wise for me, though admittedly I am mildly bisexual, though
that is an issue of sexual orientation moreso.

So the third gender is not an option. Does that make you a pseudo woman? Because you aren't a biological one. Are you one of God's imperfect creatures?

Again, no, in this context of 3rd gender, or any actually. - By the by, this is copied and pasted :P :

The terms third gender and third sex describe individuals who are considered to be neither women nor men, as well as the social category present in those societies who recognize three or more genders.

The state of being neither male nor female may be understood in relation to the individual's biological sex, gender role, gender identity, or sexual orientation. To different cultures or individuals, a third sex or gender may represent an intermediate state between men and women, a state of being both (such as "the spirit of a man in the body of a woman"), the state of being neither (neuter), the ability to cross or swap genders, or another category altogether independent of male and female. This last definition is favored by those who argue for a strict interpretation of the "third gender" concept.

The term has been used to describe Hijras of India and Pakistan,[1] Fa'afafine of Polynesia, and Sworn virgins of the Balkans,[2] among others, and is also used by many of such groups and individuals to describe themselves.

The term "third" is usually understood to mean "other"; some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth,[3] fifth,[4] and many[5] genders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

[Nicole Dupre]

I wil stick by my statement that by necessity or choice a fair number of
transwomen are not planning for the future.

This can even be evidenced by this thread, we are not seeing many
responses to the question "What happens to tgirls when they get old er)?".

Well, neither are a lot of people. But ok. Let's say they aren't planning. You could say that becoming a nun shows lack of planning. Just kinda letting God sort it out for you. Same thing with becoming an actress, or even an artist. I'm not sure that transwomen are quite in the downward spiral you'te portraying them to be in.


As to your contenton that I see being pre op as a problem, again I will
maintain that you are incorrect. There are many pre op, (though perhaps
non op would be more accurate) women who are very happy with their
penis, they do not suffer any angst from it. Indeed it could be said that
they do not suffer from gender dysphoria.

Is it having a penis that's the cause of GID, or is it living as a male? And do you think that those people not suffering from GID are actually "autogynephiliacs", and not "true" transsexuals?


like many of the other members of this and other forums, I write on
many things, some GID related, some not, but I am certain that there has
been no paucity of information from me on the topic.

Admittedly, my posts my not have dick pics, or be of a pruient nature, and
can at times be pedantic and verbose, but they are there for anyone that
wants to peruse them.Right, but you realize that this is a forum mostly about chicks with dicks. So it's not like you'd be preaching to the choir. It's a bit against the grain. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you know it's a bit contra.

[Nicole Dupre]

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

For myself, I most definetely subscibe to a binary definition of gender - male, female.

Third gender, gender variant, gender queer are not an option gender
orientation wise for me, though admittedly I am mildly bisexual, though
that is an issue of sexual orientation moreso.

So the third gender is not an option. Does that make you a pseudo woman? Because you aren't a biological one. Are you one of God's imperfect creatures?

Again, no, in this context of 3rd gender, or any actually. - By the by, this is copied and pasted :P :

The terms third gender and third sex describe individuals who are considered to be neither women nor men, as well as the social category present in those societies who recognize three or more genders.

The state of being neither male nor female may be understood in relation to the individual's biological sex, gender role, gender identity, or sexual orientation. To different cultures or individuals, a third sex or gender may represent an intermediate state between men and women, a state of being both (such as "the spirit of a man in the body of a woman"), the state of being neither (neuter), the ability to cross or swap genders, or another category altogether independent of male and female. This last definition is favored by those who argue for a strict interpretation of the "third gender" concept.

The term has been used to describe Hijras of India and Pakistan,[1] Fa'afafine of Polynesia, and Sworn virgins of the Balkans,[2] among others, and is also used by many of such groups and individuals to describe themselves.

The term "third" is usually understood to mean "other"; some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth,[3] fifth,[4] and many[5] genders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_genderAgain, this is somewhat in the ballpark of true and untrue, right? Some are a 3rd gender, but you aren't? Is it a philosophical or biological difference? Or both?

[peggygee]

One last question. If "vaginas are beautiful", aren't cocks beautiful too? And if they are, doesn't that mean a beautiful woman can have a beautiful cock? Or does a cock look ugly on a woman? Being mildly bi, what do you think? Does a cock look good on a chick?

I prefer men to women, mate wise, I have been involved with women
before and could see myself again, with the right one.

Comparing pussies to dicks, is a bit like comparing apples to oranges,
though I will say that for me I find a vagina more aethetically different,
they are like snowflakes with two being alike, wheras once you've seen
a bunch of cocks you pretty much have seen them all.

Then too I love my pussy, it looks great, feels great, smells great,
can't say that I taste it oftem, but have been told it tastes great. I had a
nice cock, it was large, looked nice, but it wasn't the right thing for me.

And yes there are many beautiful transwomen. Do cocks look good on
them? For the most part i don't really look, though there are some that
I could see myself kicking it with if our personalities clicked.

[Nicole Dupre]

Are you up on this stuff, Peggy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBL_controversy

I am indeed aware of the theories espoused by Blanchard, Bailey,
Lawrence, et al, and while I don't agree with them in totality, I feel that
there are elements of merit to it, much as the works of Benjamin
still have degrees of credibility.

In discussing and attempting to understand gender dysphoria we must
have some frame of reference. And while Blanchard and Bailey may not
have always employed the best techniques in validating and quantifying
their research, and then allowed themselves to become embroiled in
gender politics, I do applaud and encourage anyone who is willing to
attempt to bring some clarity to such a challenging subject.

:2cent

So you feel that there are true and untrue transsexuals?

Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier? Was it easier to feel at home in your own skin because people like Phobun wouldn't assign freak-status to you? Btw, what do you think of the way Phobun speaks to me? Or, let's put it another way. Even if you would absolve me of such things, does his philosophy have merit?

I am of the Benjamin school primarily, thus I feel that there are "true" and
untrue transsexuals. I would also daresay that I feel that some women
have transitioned solely for economic reasons, and some purely for
sexual ones.




Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier?

For me it was primarily to correct a mistake, though in some instances it
has made life easier.

As to you and Phobun, I must admit that when any two or more posters
are engaing in non-productive discourse that I attempt to avoid those
threads.

I will say that I feel that alll posters, irregardless of their gender should
be respectful of the other and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

So going as far as dividing TS into true and untrue, or if they're in it for the money and the sexual rush or not; those are pretty cut and dry issues for you. Heated debates over such things are simply unnecessary and non-productive. lol

And you agree with him, but you think he should simply patronize me, the way you patronize "untrue" TS. lol

While we're at it, do you see any untrue TS on this forum, or would you rather not mention names? ;) lol

Btw, that must be kinda neat, being a true TS. Kinda kicks it up a notch. lol

[peggygee]

Is it having a penis that's the cause of GID, or is it living as a male? And do you think that those people not suffering from GID are actually "autogynephiliacs", and not "true" transsexuals?



I'm going to have to get back with you on the morrow, I
need to turn in, you know us middle-aged women need
our beauty sleep.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/hairrollersredux.jpg

[Nicole Dupre]

One last question. If "vaginas are beautiful", aren't cocks beautiful too? And if they are, doesn't that mean a beautiful woman can have a beautiful cock? Or does a cock look ugly on a woman? Being mildly bi, what do you think? Does a cock look good on a chick?

I prefer men to women, mate wise, I have been involved with women
before and could see myself again, with the right one.

Comparing pussies to dicks, is a bit like comparing apples to oranges,
though I will say that for me I find a vagina more aethetically different,
they are like snowflakes with two being alike, wheras once you've seen
a bunch of cocks you pretty much have seen them all.

Then too I love my pussy, it looks great, feels great, smells great,
can't say that I taste it oftem, but have been told it tastes great. I had a
nice cock, it was large, looked nice, but it wasn't the right thing for me.

And yes there are many beautiful transwomen. Do cocks look good on
them? For the most part i don't really look, though there are some that
I could see myself kicking it with if our personalities clicked.

So pussies are like snowflakes, but all cocks look the same?!? Mother Mary and Joseph!!! lol ;)

That sounds kinda non-gay TS ie. untrue. ;) Have you ever turned yourself on by looking in the mirror? ;)

[Nicole Dupre]

Thank you, Good night. :)

[phobun]

But I suppose what I find to be a little unsettling is, many of the gentlemen here say things that are horrible, and you aren't speaking up for your sisters. You're a hypocrite. You say cruel things to people all the time (Rockabilly (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764026&highlight=lardass#764026)) and viciously attack other transsexuals using this forum or your blog (http://www.nikki-dupre.com/uncategorized/hara-bald-crossdresser/). You were even called out for your "sadism" here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764735&highlight=sadism#764735).

You often call me a homosexual, but other times you've insinuated that I'm a transsexual in denial who will begin HRT (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=759956&highlight=hrt#759956). How can you reconcile those opposing attempts to impugn me? Easy... for you it's the same thing.

Because the only thing that might separate you from the geriatric autogynephiles is that you're more of a flaming gay man with boobs. If you are a transsexual, and I seriously doubt that, then at best you're a granny tranny who is ill-at-ease with themself. You were nearly 40 years old before you started to transition... that's pretty late, and given the results, this "I'm a transsexual" mantra of yours is about as convincing as any any other leathery queen on a streetcorner insisting he's the Princess of Wales. Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true, nor does it convince others that their eyes are lying.
And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it?Hypocrite.

Ahhh, now we're back in Blanchard territory! You have that agenda and a sense of purpose! "Divide and conquer"! I love when you mix in that master race stuff with TS issues. You're HA's self-appointed Brown Shirt/SS. A true pariah! lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Blanchard#Autogynephilia_and_the_taxonomy_of_m ale-to-female_gender_dysphoriaWhy condemn someone over a silly academic theory... so what if anyone chooses to believe differently than you? It does not make them a fascist or racist as you just ridiculously implied. So what if someone chooses not to subscribe to any formal theory at all, and instead just trusts his or her intuition that you're a nutty phony?

In spite of your claims that you're going to be leaving this forum except for occasional promotion, you're unable to keep your word, and you're probably on here more than anyone else. Why do you seem to be so dependent on HA forum? How close are you with your extended family now that you're older and have gone home, and do they wonder if the escort business in Florida flopped? I wonder if the real issue is you and your bitter loneliness as you enter middle-age. I worry that emotional abuse and dysfunctional relationships are what you've known, and that is why you spend your time here attacking others. You might find happiness if you redirected your venom and rage into more productive uses.

Go ahead and call me a fag, latent homosexual or whatever pleases you.
Your pathetic epithets do much to discredit yourself as a sentient, warm and well-adjusted transwoman.

[Nicole Dupre]

Why condemn someone over a silly academic theory... so what if anyone chooses to believe differently than you? It does not make them a fascist or racist as you just ridiculously implied. So what if someone chooses not to subscribe to any formal theory at all, and instead just trusts his or her intuition that you're a nutty phony?

Don't downplay the single biggest divide and conquer strategy to ever be used AGAINST transsexuals. And why bother throwing around such terminology in the first place if it's "silly academic theory"? It seemed like a good idea to you at the time? Please tell us which it is for you. "Silly academic theory" or "intuition"? Don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.


In spite of your claims that you're going to be leaving this forum except for occasional promotion, you're unable to keep your word, and you're probably on here more than anyone else. Why do you seem to be so dependent on HA forum? How close are you with your extended family now that you're older and have gone home, and do they wonder if the escort business in Florida flopped? I wonder if the real issue is you and your bitter loneliness as you enter middle-age. I worry that emotional abuse and dysfunctional relationships are what you've known, and that is why you spend your time here attacking others. You might find happiness if you redirected your venom and rage into more productive uses.

Sorry, but the "failed escort business" theory is not holding weight. I know it would make you feel better if it were true, but it simply isn't. I moved back here primarily because south Florida is a culturally and intellectually bankrupt vacuum, but keep guessing if it makes you feel better. And I will post here as often or as little as I want. You won't be seeing any grandiose departure posts from me. You're simply disappointed because "I'm getting bored an/or sick of this place" is hardly a promise which you can personally find solace in. Again, that was more wishful thinking on your part. I am a pre-op TS with things to promote. You're a declared dissident of the pre-op TS sex worker industry. The person who's presence here is inconsistent with their words is you, not me.


Go ahead and call me a fag, latent homosexual or whatever pleases you.

Thanks. I will. lol


Your pathetic epithets do much to discredit yourself as a sentient, warm and well-adjusted transwoman."Sentient and warm? lol I'm an outspoken cunt. However, I'm neither stupid nor inhumane.

Your every post questions another person's sexuality, and/or "true" or "untrue" transsexual status. So, whether you like my tone or not, it does nothing to change the fact that I am the altruist here and you're the ideoligical pariah. Read my posts, and re-read them. Get sick of them. And then choke on them. I find a great sense of pride in challenging your hater tactics. You don't belong here, and don't you fucking dare forget it. 8)

[Nicole Dupre]

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1017946/3836037

[Nicole Dupre]

I think what's most ironic about this whole convo is, I've wanted SRS since I first heard about it at the age of 8. I only started reconsidering it about two years ago. lol

And the biggest reason I see to not get SRS is, there's hardly anything practical about it. I now see it more as an obligatory act, if not a completely superficial one, than as a defining one. I wanted a vagina because I learned to hate the body part which robbed me of my gender identity at age 2.

When my mom explained to me that the thing I peed with was some sort of deal-breaker, I found it to be absurd and wholly unfair. But life is hardly ever fair, and I now see my penis as nothing to base my gender status on. It's society's issue, not mine. So let them catch up.

And God knows society as a whole has had it's collective head up it's ass before. Conventional thinking and "intuition" is what led Germany down the path of the Final Solution. So much for letting others do your thinking for you.

[phobun]

Why condemn someone over a silly academic theory... so what if anyone chooses to believe differently than you? It does not make them a fascist or racist as you just ridiculously implied. So what if someone chooses not to subscribe to any formal theory at all, and instead just trusts his or her intuition that you're a nutty phony? Don't downplay the single biggest divide and conquer strategy to ever be used AGAINST transsexuals. This is just more paranoia.
And why bother throwing around such terminology in the first place if it's "silly academic theory"? It seemed like a good idea to you at the time? Please tell us which it is for you. "Silly academic theory" or "intuition"? Don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.No theory is necessary to see you for who you are.

In spite of your claims that you're going to be leaving this forum except for occasional promotion, you're unable to keep your word, and you're probably on here more than anyone else. Why do you seem to be so dependent on HA forum? How close are you with your extended family now that you're older and have gone home, and do they wonder if the escort business in Florida flopped? I wonder if the real issue is you and your bitter loneliness as you enter middle-age. I worry that emotional abuse and dysfunctional relationships are what you've known, and that is why you spend your time here attacking others. You might find happiness if you redirected your venom and rage into more productive uses.Sorry, but the "failed escort business" theory is not holding weight. I know it would make you feel better if it were true, but it simply isn't. I moved back here primarily because south Florida is a culturally and intellectually bankrupt vacuum, but keep guessing if it makes you feel better. Heh, and New Jersey is a cultural and intellectual center. Regardless though, I hope you have found support there near your family in NJ, and I wish you success as an escort during your middle-age.
And I will post here as often or as little as I want. You won't be seeing any grandiose departure posts from me.Oh, but we essentially have, multiple times, including here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764026&highlight=lardass#764026), here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764238&highlight=casting+pearls#764238) and here (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=765807&highlight=place+long+while#765807). I don't care if you leave or not, but you're either here to promote yourself as you claimed, or to bitterly attack others and call guys fags, as you do. Your claim is mutually exclusive of your actions.
You're simply disappointed. "I'm getting bored an/or sick of this place" is hardly a promise which you can personally find solace in. Again, that was more wishful thinking on your part. I am a pre-op TS with things to promote.Right.
You're a declared dissident of the pre-op TS sex worker industry.Declared? More paranoia.
The person who's presence here is inconsistent with their words is you, not me.No, as was clear in your attack on Peggygee, you're the one with issues about operative status. There is a home here for post-op transsexuals and guys who like them here, regardless of whether that makes you uncomfortable.

Go ahead and call me a fag, latent homosexual or whatever pleases you.Thanks. I will. lolWhich goes to the heart of jcinva's point (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=764270&highlight=kettle+calling#764270). The flip side of your silly names is the implication those names have for you. Further, if you are willing to unload "fag" at guys here, that is not consistent with your claims to want to be a successful escort. What sort of desparate masochist would pay for such a personality?.

Your pathetic epithets do much to discredit yourself as a sentient, warm and well-adjusted transwoman."Sentient and warm? lol I'm an outspoken cunt. However, I'm neither stupid nor inhumane.Which is not to say that your intelligent or humane. But you are clearly bitter and angry. Why? Redirect those demons toward more productive uses. There's no glory to be earned by rehashing the Bailey wars, or calling guys fags, on a porn forum.
Your every post questions another person's sexuality, and/or "true" or "untrue" transsexual status. You're projecting, again.
So, whether you like my tone or not, it does nothing to change the fact that I am the altruist here and you're the ideoligical pariah. Read my posts, and re-read them. Get sick of them. And then choke on them. Heh. I hope that someday you find happiness and inner peace.

[phobun]

I think what's most ironic about this whole convo is, I've wanted SRS since I first heard about it at the age of 8. I only started reconsidering it about two years ago. lol

And the biggest reason I see to not get SRS is, there's hardly anything practical about it. I now see it more as an obligatory act, if not a completely superficial one, than as a defining one. I wanted a vagina because I learned to hate the body part which robbed me of my gender identity at age 2.

When my mom explained to me that the thing I peed with was some sort of deal-breaker, I found it to be absurd and wholly unfair. But life is hardly ever fair, and I now see my penis as nothing to base my gender status on. It's society's issue, not mine. So let them catch up.

And God knows society as a whole has had it's collective head up it's ass before. Conventional thinking and "intuition" is what led Germany down the path of the Final Solution. So much for letting others do your thinking for you.Oh lord, this thread is clearly reaching a point of diminishing marginal returns now that Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)has been invoked.

As I said before, I hope you can someday find happiness and inner peace.

[gotchagood]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

With all due respect, after the 3 or so years you've been here, I really have to question what the big motivation is behind all of the endorsing you do of SRS. I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing. At this point, I think the urgency for SRS, and even stealth, is nowhere close to what it was when you transitioned. The idea that SRS makes you "complete" is disappearing. The HBS are borderline offensive, although they were indeed all we had to legitimize our yearning to make a little progress for so long. Back in the day, the first thing they did when you said you wanted to transition was give you an orchi, which in retrospect is a very extreme course of action. In contrast, now it's generally the second to last thing girls do.

I also think stats on TS are probably some of the most inaccurate of all. Most TS aren't coming forward to actually say they're TS, unless they work in the adult industry where it only behooves them. In addition, most of the girls doing well in that industry, like most of the ones who regularly post here, are beating the odds of your observation. Stealth girls don't share info. Younger TS have more love and support from they're families and won't face these same struggles that the girls before them did.

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

So I dunno, Peggy. Maybe you're being helpful, but I think these anecdotes you often share are are a bit insular, if not sanctimonious at times. I have to wonder if you're not romanticizing more about being a crusader than you are being an instrument of practical change. Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.

Are there potential trappings in the sex worker lifestyle? Yes. But many GGs and gay men are up against the same thing, and no operation is the cure-all. And plenty of pre-ops, in fact, do just fine.Wow! Bravo! Nichole. I like what you said. Thanks.

[Nicole Dupre]

I think what's most ironic about this whole convo is, I've wanted SRS since I first heard about it at the age of 8. I only started reconsidering it about two years ago. lol

And the biggest reason I see to not get SRS is, there's hardly anything practical about it. I now see it more as an obligatory act, if not a completely superficial one, than as a defining one. I wanted a vagina because I learned to hate the body part which robbed me of my gender identity at age 2.

When my mom explained to me that the thing I peed with was some sort of deal-breaker, I found it to be absurd and wholly unfair. But life is hardly ever fair, and I now see my penis as nothing to base my gender status on. It's society's issue, not mine. So let them catch up.

And God knows society as a whole has had it's collective head up it's ass before. Conventional thinking and "intuition" is what led Germany down the path of the Final Solution. So much for letting others do your thinking for you.Oh lord, this thread is clearly reaching a point of diminishing marginal returns now that Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)has been invoked.

As I said before, I hope you can someday find happiness and inner peace.

How kind of you. When all else fails, patronize? ;)

Oh, and if Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs are not up to progressive speed and lack enough culture, where pray tell are you taking up space? ;) lol

Have another idelogical coffin nail. It's on me. lol

[Nicole Dupre]

No, as was clear in your attack on Peggygee, you're the one with issues about operative status. There is a home here for post-op transsexuals and guys who like them here, regardless of whether that makes you uncomfortable."Uncomfortable" around post ops? lol Wake up and smell the coffee. One of my dearest and best friends is a post op TS, and she's emotionally light years beyond Peggy imho. She wouldn't waste her time on a pre-op porn forum doing public relations for post ops for a minute. She transitioned in her early teens, and had srs well over 10 years ago. If she invites me to her home for Christmas dinner, don't you think we'd know each other well enough to be more than "comfortable" with one another's value systems?

Please answer one direct question. Have you ever had a close relationship of any kind with any type of TS, pre or post?

[SarahG]

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

If you start saying stuff like that, some of the people on this board would likely start saying you hate late transitioners, as a few people have accused me of in the past.

I do have to agree with this paragraph for the most part. NHS in the UK only seems to be capable of helping those who are late midlife crisis transitioners. How many younger girls have we seen online in the last 5 yrs who lamented about having to go private because "NHS wanted them to be fulltime for 2 years before going on HRT" or "had 5 year wait times to see the local therapist for a diagnosis"? If NHS is a success, I'd hate to see what a failure is.

But I am intrigued on one point, are you saying you don't think trans medical care should ever be included under health care programs because of the perception the general public has over it?

At the very least, therapy should be included under all health care programs for people who need it. If someone is engaged in self destructive behavior, has clinical depression, or is suicidal for any reason (not just trans related ones), they should be able to get treatment for it.


Neither of you are of the thinking that pre-ops are at an ok place.

If we're using terms correctly, a pre-op is not at an "ok place" by being pre-op. That's why we have terms like non-op.

A pre-op is someone who feels they need SRS to be happy. That's why the term implies they will eventually get SRS.

I would propose that the fact that we have non-op as a term today, is evidence that there are people out there... people the medical community & trans community used to hide, who do not need need SRS to be happy, and this is becoming more and more recognized. Though OTOH this somewhat ignores that even Benjamin's transsexualism tier scheme assumed that different people would need different types of treatment to be happy. Even he realized that not everyone would need SRS, or HRT for that matter.



You're both pushing the idea that transsexuality is a dysphoria of the individual, and not the society.

Why is this issue always presented as if its always all one, or all the other?

Some people simply will not be happy until they're accepted by society living how they want to live indifferent to how they look.

Some people simply will not be happy until their body is how they think it should be, indifferent to how society views them.

Some people need both.

It's really not that complicated.



So the third gender is not an option. Does that make you a pseudo woman? Because you aren't a biological one. Are you one of God's imperfect creatures?

If we are using 3rd gender to mean "there is a male gender, a female gender, and everyone else is a 3rd gender" then you have to coupe with a fatal flaw- and that's the fatal flaw of saying that MtF's and FtM's are the same gender. That's crazy talk.

It would be far more easy, and accurate, to instead of using fabricated PC-terms like "3rd gender"- to just drop the facades and say "either there are two genders... or gender is a spectrum." Because you simply can't lump all MtF, FtM, and etc. people together and say they have the same gender. They do NOT all have the same gender, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a major reality check. Usually when people start spouting off about this so called "3rd gender" they're coming from a world view where there are only 3 people; GG's, GB's, and MtF's. Any classification scheme needs to take FtM's into consideration if it is taking MtF's into consideration.

If we were to start making up new genders for every oddball situation, where would it end? This would be an argument for at least 4 genders, possibly 5 if we opened it up to androgies.

3rd gender was a term fabricated to advocate a political position. It's factually baseless and without supporting logic.

The same is just as true if we start using "3rd gender" to talk about classifying sex. You simply cannot argue that MtF's and FtM's are the same sex, for the same reason why you cannot argue that GG's and GB's are the same sex.

[Nikka]

ZzzZZZz

I was thinking about mature hardcore porn

[SammiValentine]

I do have to agree with this paragraph for the most part. NHS in the UK only seems to be capable of helping those who are late midlife crisis transitioners. How many younger girls have we seen online in the last 5 yrs who lamented about having to go private because "NHS wanted them to be fulltime for 2 years before going on HRT" or "had 5 year wait times to see the local therapist for a diagnosis"? If NHS is a success, I'd hate to see what a failure is.

The NHS is all about the postcode funding lottery and whether or not your GP has any previous experience with gender issues.. local therapists do they actually exist ?:)

[SarahG]

I do have to agree with this paragraph for the most part. NHS in the UK only seems to be capable of helping those who are late midlife crisis transitioners. How many younger girls have we seen online in the last 5 yrs who lamented about having to go private because "NHS wanted them to be fulltime for 2 years before going on HRT" or "had 5 year wait times to see the local therapist for a diagnosis"? If NHS is a success, I'd hate to see what a failure is.

The NHS is all about the postcode funding lottery and whether or not your GP has any previous experience with gender issues.. local therapists do they actually exist ?:)

Sure, they're in the same districts that have honest politicians, truthful lawyers, hordes of wild unicorns, and no CCTV

[Floyd R]

Why doesn't she invite you to her home for Thanksgiving dinner?



No, as was clear in your attack on Peggygee, you're the one with issues about operative status. There is a home here for post-op transsexuals and guys who like them here, regardless of whether that makes you uncomfortable."Uncomfortable" around post ops? lol Wake up and smell the coffee. One of my dearest and best friends is a post op TS, and she's emotionally light years beyond Peggy imho. She wouldn't waste her time on a pre-op porn forum doing public relations for post ops for a minute. She transitioned in her early teens, and had srs well over 10 years ago. If she invites me to her home for Christmas dinner, don't you think we'd know each other well enough to be more than "comfortable" with one another's value systems?

Please answer one direct question. Have you ever had a close relationship of any kind with any type of TS, pre or post?

[peggygee]

Is it having a penis that's the cause of GID, or is it living as a male? And do you think that those people not suffering from GID are actually "autogynephiliacs", and not "true" transsexuals?



We have been using the terms "true" and "untrue" transsexual quite a bit.

As I have mentioned I am a card carrying member of the Benjamin school, The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), formerly known as the (Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association, HBIGDA) (http://www.wpath.org/)

It is in the context defined by Benjamin that I mean "true" transsexual.

The Blanchard-Bailey school on the other hand use the terms autogynephiles and homosexual transsexual to denote between true and
untrue.

Thus on the Benjamin scale, I was a Type Six: True Transsexual (high
intensity), and on the Blanchard scale I would haave been a homosexual
transsexual.


Dr. Harry Benjamin's Gender Disorientation Scale


Type One: Transvestite (Pseudo)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Could get occasional kick out of dressing. Normal male life.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Hetero, bi, or homosexual. Dressing and -- more --exchange may occur in masturbation fantasies mainly. May enjoy TV literature only.
Kinsey Scale: 0-6
Conversion Operation: Not considered in reality.
Estrogen Medication: Not interested or indicated.
Psychotherapy: Not wanted and unnecessary.
Remarks: Interests in dressing is only sporadic.

Type Two: Transvestism (Fetishistic)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Dressing periodically or part of the time. Dresses underneath male clothes.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual. Rarely bisexual. Masturbation with fetish. Guilt feelings. Purges and relapses.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Rejected
Estrogen Medication: Rarely interested. Occasionally useful to reduce libido.
Psychotherapy: May be successful (in a favorable environment.)
Remarks: May imitate double (masculine and feminine) personality with male and female names.

Type Three: Transvestism (True)
Gender Feeling: Masculine (but with less conviction.)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses constantly or as often as possible. May live and be accepted as woman. May dress underneath male clothes, if no other chance.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual, except when dressed. Dressing gives sexual satisfaction with relief of gender discomfort. May purge and relapse.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Actually rejected, but idea can be attractive.
Estrogen Medication: Attractive as an experiment. Can be helpful emotionally
Psychotherapy: If attempted is usually not successful as to cure.
Remarks: May assume double personality. Trend toward transsexualism.

Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman; sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.

Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible. Insufficient relief from dressing.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido low. Asexual auto-erotic, or passive homosexual activity. May have been married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 4-6
Conversion Operation: Requested and usually indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Needed as substitute for or preliminary to operation.
Psychotherapy: Rejected. Useless as to cure. Permissive psychological guidance.
Remarks: Operation hoped for and worked for. Often attained.

Type Six: True Transsexual (high intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine. Total psycho-sexual inversion.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: May live and work as a woman. Dressing gives insufficient relief. Gender discomfort intense.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Intensely desires relations with normal male as female if young. May have been married and have children, by using fantasies in intercourse.
Kinsey Scale: 6
Conversion Operation: Urgently requested and usually attained. Indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Required for partial relief.
Psychotherapy: Psychological guidance or psychotherapy for symptomaticrelief only.
Remarks: Despises his male sex organs. Danger of suicide or self-mutilation, if too long frustrated.

As contrasted with:

Blanchard's Categories

Autogynephiles

Autogynephiles suffer from an extreme variation on Transvestic fetishism. Basically any transsexual who also suffers from the symptoms of transvestic fetishism is an Autogynephile

In Bailey's book he describes the Autogynephile as transitioning at an average age of 45. They were typically masculine little boys and very masculine as grown men. They often were the type who was first string on the (American) football team, or green beret commando's. They have usually had long and successful careers in typically masculine occupations. Very often these women remain married to their wives who they have been married to for many years after transition.

Homosexual transsexuals

All transsexuals who are in fact free of transvestic fetishes are of this type. The vast majority of transsexuals fall into this category. Transsexuals who are strictly un attracted to female anatomy would be unable to have a fetish for having a female body or wearing the clothing of a female. Hence the emphasis placed on an exclusive homosexual pre transition sexual orientation by way of the name given to this type.

This type of transsexual regardless of their professed sexual orientation makes a socially awkward male. They may attempt to fit into society as a homosexual male but find that homosexual males are unattractive to them. They may try to fit into heterosexual society for a short time. They are never able to maintain that front long enough to have grown children or a long masculine career.

It is worth noting that this type of transsexual has been observed through all of history. They have been called primary, true, or classical transsexuals. They have been seen as the Hijra (South Asia) of South Asia , Two-Spirit of Native North Americans, and the Mukhannathun of Arab/muslim society. One case illustrates the whole phenomena of heterosexual transsexuality. The Roman Emperor Elagabalus who was married five times but only had a lasting relationship with his slave and chariot driver who she referred to as her husband. She is thought by some to have undergone a primitive form of sexual reassignment surgery before dying, being killed by her guards or faking her death at the age of 25.

[peggygee]

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.


Brava I could not have said that better. Careful. Those dickless bricks have teeth. They could bite back if you are too outspoken.

That said much of what Peggy wrote is true, as we all age we slow down. No where here is as energetic as a two year old, and we all look before crossing the street. That's just part of life.

It's like asking what happens to sailors when they get odl.

Pretty much the essence of my responses.

I realized that God willing that I would get older. I knew that I would be
middle-aged, then a geriatic senior.

I knew that I didn't want to, nor could I, be sucking and fucking at 50, 60,
70, 80, 90, perhaps a 100+ years of age.

The sex industry is a young persons industry, thus if I didn't want to go
hungry, be homeless, or be dependent on state or Federal aid that I
needed to put in place a plan to ensure that didn't happen.

And unlike some transwomen, I didn't see myself as a victim. I didn't see
myself as someone whoose race and gender was going to hold her back.

[helmetvonzeplin]

What do they do when they gt older? they fuck us guys whom they were fucking when they were younger, lots of them are still servicing clients into their late 50's and beyond. Listen all you young studs, you too will get older and will be doing the same thing. I usually fuck girls under thirty who prefer older guys, but I still visit some of the old flames whom I fucked when I was a youngster and my cock was able to cum three times in a session.
I am thinking of opening a non profit retirement home for transsexuals out in Palm Springs,CA, minimum age will be 54 and will try to gear expenses to reality. Should be about twenty units, mostly with two bedrooms, living room, kitchen, storage ares, swimming pool suana/steam room. Also an upside down room so if your tits are sagging you can refresh them by hanging upside down for a while. Contact me if you are interested in signing up.

[peggygee]

What do they do when they gt older? they fuck us guys whom they were fucking when they were younger, lots of them are still servicing clients into their late 50's and beyond. Listen all you young studs, you too will get older and will be doing the same thing. I usually fuck girls under thirty who prefer older guys, but I still visit some of the old flames whom I fucked when I was a youngster and my cock was able to cum three times in a session.
I am thinking of opening a non profit retirement home for transsexuals out in Palm Springs,CA, minimum age will be 54 and will try to gear expenses to reality. Should be about twenty units, mostly with two bedrooms, living room, kitchen, storage ares, swimming pool suana/steam room. Also an upside down room so if your tits are sagging you can refresh them by hanging upside down for a while. Contact me if you are interested in signing up.


But what happens when they get older and can no longer walk the
streets?

Mexican ex-prostitutes find home

By Duncan Kennedy
BBC News, Mexico City



Go to the centre of Mexico City after dark and you can see the women start to colonise the district.

The grey suits that are everywhere during daylight hours give way to multi-coloured miniskirts as the time arrives for a different kind of product to be traded.

There are not enough street corners to accommodate all the women. Instead, there are rows of them along the main boulevards.

The parade of women means the male clients can stay in the dry warmth of their cars as they make their impersonal choice.

One estimate says there are 3,000 prostitutes in the city at any one time.

But what happens when they get older and can no longer walk the streets?

One answer lies behind an unremarkable brown door of a two-storey block in the city's poorer northern neighbourhood.

Tranquil

Push open the door and you walk into what is believed to be the world's first retirement home for prostitutes.


A fountain in its central court yard gives it the tranquil feeling of a home for pensioners in Florida.

Here all of the 30 women who have so far moved in are former workers in the sex industry.

The house is the idea of Carmen Munoz, herself a prostitute for 20 years.

"It's taken me a long time to get this place opened," she says. "We had to convince the local government and the police it was needed. But when I saw elderly women lying in the streets with nowhere to go, I knew I had to act."

An enlightened city mayor and private donors are paying for the home, Carmen says.

As we talk, one woman shuffles by on a walking frame. Carmen turns to me and whispers: "She's 90 and spent 40 years as a working girl."

Before I came here, I lived with people who used to hurt me

Maria, 75-year-old former prostitute

Set around a central square with walls painted in blue and yellow, the house is called Casa Xochiquetzal. It is named after the Aztec goddess of beauty and sexual love.

Solitude

We go into the room of Maria, 75. On one wall hangs a small picture of Jesus. A collection of six black, brown and blue hand bags are pinned to another.

It is a sign, she tells me, of her determination to retain some femininity in a career of cold, anonymous, encounters.

After providing a lifetime of comfort for others she, like all those here, was condemned to a life of solitude herself.


"Before I came here, I lived with people who used to hurt me. If I couldn't pay the rent they used to make me suffer very much," Maria says, before breaking down in tears.

Later, we see other women and more rooms, most of them equipped with nothing but a bed.

Any money the women earned was long ago siphoned off by pimps and corrupt police officers.

I see a young boy and girl playing by the fountain. Carmen tells me there is an occasional visit by a grandchild. But the sons, daughters, brothers and sisters of the women stay away.

"In a country like Mexico which is very conservative and religious, those friends and family don't want to know," she says.

Martha, 74, has not seen her two sons for years. The house now provides the dignified sanctuary so long denied her.

"I have many comforts here," she says. "There's food and a roof over my head. I don't want much, just security and to be with friends."

Until now, Martha and the other residents were proof that the sex industry had a forgotten demographic: elderly, former practitioners, discarded by the cruel forces of a market that penalises the imperfections of old age.

But after a life of violence, discrimination and exploitation, these women have at last found people who are showing them compassion.

Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, but some of its oldest professionals now have a place to call home

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7028449.stm

[peggygee]

Zimbabwe - AFRICA
Prostitute ends up in a retirement home
Posted on06 September 2009.

CHIPO Chatyoka’s life as a prostitute had reached a dead end when she came to Hope Nyamapanda Centre, Hope Nyamapanda Centre is also popularly known as the so-called retirement home for sex workers.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/zim.png

The 36-year-old former prostitute went to the border town of Nyamapanda from nearby Tsonga Village a few years ago to look for riches through one of the world’s oldest professions. Ravaged by diseases and weighed down by the hectic life of prostitution, Chatyoka decided to retire recently from her demanding job without much to show for it.

She now talks about her past as a prostitute with regret and is adamant that prostitution does not pay.

“There is no day I can say I was happy during my days as a prostitute.

“You are always crying and regretting your actions. In short, there is no way one can enjoy being a prostitute.”

Chatyoka has since turned a new leaf and joined other former prostitutes at the home at Nyamapanda Border Post where they try out various income-generating projects.

“We came here to rediscover ourselves once again. We are all ex-prostitutes and most of us are living with HIV and Aids.

“This is the reward we had after our long years of escapades in this border area.”

Chatyoka constantly breaks down when she narrates some of the ordeals she went through as a prostitute.

“The day I will never forget is when I went to the bar looking for clients. I mistakenly stepped on the foot of some man.

“I thought an apology to him would be enough, but I was wrong.

“Within seconds I found myself on the ground after being punched in the face.

“My face swelled that very moment and I had to bolt out of the bar and abandon my mission for the night.

“My day was cut short and I went home without a client. This is when I started thinking of quitting the profession,” she said.

In some instances Chatyoka said some men would take her in for several days but then kick her out without paying her anything for her services.

“There is a day I met a truck driver who told me he was spending four days in the town while clearing his vehicle.

“He told me he would pay for my services on the last day.

“On that day he sent me to buy bread using my money and when I returned the vehicle was gone.

“I waited for some time only to release that I had been taken for a ride. The guy had disappeared without paying me.”

Nyamapanda Border Post is usually a hive of activity with people from all walks of life, most of whom make up the majority of clients for the prostitutes. The chief protagonists are said to be truck drivers who stop over in the town while on their way to and from Malawi and Mozambique.
There are others referred to as “jorijo” who visit the border town to make money through different ways, including robbery.

Then there are market traders who bring various wares to the border town for resale. These normally spend several weeks camped in the town and only return to their homes when their wares have been sold. There are also hundreds of cross-border traders in this busy place. The border post is surrounded by at least five villages on the Zimbabwean side, with the same number found across the border in Mozambique. Prostitution is therefore a thriving industry in this area.

Not surprisingly, condoms also sell like hot cakes here. Last month, the retirement home dished out nearly 11 000 condoms in the area. Another former sex worker, Maidei Chamuna (35), says narrating her experiences as a prostitute brought her unbearable memories. “It all started after my husband died in 1997.

“I experienced near-death situations when I ventured into prostitution which is why I later decided to come to this centre. This has become our home.
“I am literally staying here because I am always preoccupied with the projects we are running. “I am slowly re-discovering my life as I work hard to earn some money.”

The programme officer at the home, Ms Joyce Mahachi, said the centre has assisted many former sex workers to re-discover their lives.

At least 86 former prostitutes have become permanent members of the “retirement home”.

“Those who come here become permanent members because it is very difficult for them to return to prostitution after being involved in these different projects.

“When they are here they feel at home. They settle down and cease to be active prostitutes,” she said.

The former sex workers are involved in projects that include sewing and peanut butter making. They were also offered a piece of land by the Nyamapanda Clinic where they practise vegetable gardening.

“These people need a lot of help. They come here from as far away as Bindura, Mutoko and Murehwa to be prostitutes.

“They come in good health which deteriorates after a few years of staying in this town.

“In most cases friends end up selling the few belongings of those who fall ill to take them to their rural areas.

“What surprises me is that it is very difficult to stop prostitution, even if people know the dangers involved,” she said.

Hope Nyama-panda also offers some programmes for the youth and counselling to active prostitutes.

The home was established in 2003 and is supported by the Shamva-based Development Aid from People to People (DAPP

http://www.zimbabwewebnews.co.cc/?p=243

[peggygee]

Malaysian prostitutes snub retirement home offer
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 (EST)
Ageing prostitutes in an eastern Malaysian state have reportedly snubbed the government's offer of free retirement

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - "We want to give them a new life but they seem uninterested," said Rosol Wahid, an Islamic development official from conservative Terengganu state.

"All we want them to do is give up their profession and lead a decent life," he told The Star newspaper.

Terengganu authorities offered 15 prostitutes, most of whom had been in the sex industry for some two decades, rent-free apartments in a housing complex in a gesture to mark the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

But none have taken up the offer, preferring instead to remain in the town centre, continuing to practice their trade and living in dilapidated wooden houses.

"I am getting old and my loyal clients have promised to take care of my welfare when I retire," said 50-year-old sex worker Makcik Ayu, adding that the residents of the apartment block would harass the women if they moved in.

http://www.sawfnews.com/lifestyle/23826.aspx

[Nicole Dupre]

But I am intrigued on one point, are you saying you don't think trans medical care should ever be included under health care programs because of the perception the general public has over it?

Not at all. The general public will unfortunately believe many things that they hear repeatedly. So they need to start hearing that gender identity is not necessarily determined by genitalia far more often than they do now.

But the late transitioners often do become the face of transsexuality, and not in a good way. But I suspect thats because they stick out more like sore thumbs, and are often more obvious about struggling with making the adjustment; they find themselves having a lot more explaining to do, and speaking for us all. I don't necessarily blame them for it, but it doesn't help matters.


If we're using terms correctly, a pre-op is not at an "ok place" by being pre-op. That's why we have terms like non-op.

A pre-op is someone who feels they need SRS to be happy. That's why the term implies they will eventually get SRS.

I would propose that the fact that we have non-op as a term today, is evidence that there are people out there... people the medical community & trans community used to hide, who do not need need SRS to be happy, and this is becoming more and more recognized. Though OTOH this somewhat ignores that even Benjamin's transsexualism tier scheme assumed that different people would need different types of treatment to be happy. Even he realized that not everyone would need SRS, or HRT for that matter.

Why is this issue always presented as if its always all one, or all the other?

Some people simply will not be happy until they're accepted by society living how they want to live indifferent to how they look.

Some people simply will not be happy until their body is how they think it should be, indifferent to how society views them.

Some people need both.

It's really not that complicated.

And that's why I think "true" and "untrue" are a slippery slope.


If we are using 3rd gender to mean "there is a male gender, a female gender, and everyone else is a 3rd gender" then you have to coupe with a fatal flaw- and that's the fatal flaw of saying that MtF's and FtM's are the same gender. That's crazy talk.

It would be far more easy, and accurate, to instead of using fabricated PC-terms like "3rd gender"- to just drop the facades and say "either there are two genders... or gender is a spectrum." Because you simply can't lump all MtF, FtM, and etc. people together and say they have the same gender. They do NOT all have the same gender, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a major reality check. Usually when people start spouting off about this so called "3rd gender" they're coming from a world view where there are only 3 people; GG's, GB's, and MtF's. Any classification scheme needs to take FtM's into consideration if it is taking MtF's into consideration.

If we were to start making up new genders for every oddball situation, where would it end? This would be an argument for at least 4 genders, possibly 5 if we opened it up to androgies.

3rd gender was a term fabricated to advocate a political position. It's factually baseless and without supporting logic.

The same is just as true if we start using "3rd gender" to talk about classifying sex. You simply cannot argue that MtF's and FtM's are the same sex, for the same reason why you cannot argue that GG's and GB's are the same sex.
I agree with all of that, but I still try to present things in a way that the average breeder and/or heterosexist can understand. ;)

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm very much ok with concepts like 'girls look and behave like mommy' and 'boys look and behave like daddy'. I just don't think that what we use to pee or have orgasms with should determine whether you're a boy or a girl. :P My parents still serve as my two gender archetypes. But I'm not trying to sanctify those archetypes, and I don't necessarily associate either with genitalia.

Btw, I still consider SRS EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE. But it's not plaguing me, or making me feel "less than".

[SarahG]

But the late transitioners often do become the face of transsexuality, and not in a good way. But I suspect thats because they stick out more like sore thumbs, and are often more obvious about struggling with making the adjustment; they find themselves having a lot more explaining to do, and speaking for us all. I don't necessarily blame them for it, but it doesn't help matters.

I would agree with that. Someone who starts early and can pass may be out as out gets but unless she's walking around with a tshirt that boldly says "I'm trans," the general public might well never know in just passing her in a store or the mall.


And that's why I think "true" and "untrue" are a slippery slope.

I do think that Benjamin's choice of terminology was more than a tick unfortunate. If he had just plainly setup his tier system so it read something like; "transsexuals who need SRS," and "transsexuals who need all but SRS" instead of this true versus untrue stuff, I doubt people would get their panties tied in knots so easily over it.

However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.

I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.


I agree with all of that, but I still try to present things in a way that the average breeder and/or heterosexist can understand. ;)

lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.


Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm very much ok with concepts like 'girls look and behave like mommy' and 'boys look and behave like daddy'. I just don't think that what we use to pee or have orgasms with should determine whether you're a boy or a girl. :P

That's actually what I was trying to get at the other day in that thread where Bella and I were talking about a few similar things.

At the end of the day the brain is the most definitively important sex characteristic there is. Not everyone with a vagina is going to think, act, or perform functions like a girl. Not everyone with a penis is going to think, act, or perform functions like a guy- the brain dictates how the person does, pretty much, everything. You could take anyone off the street, give them SRS- and while they might be legally another sex after the fact (depending on what state you're in), unless you lucked into picking someone who was trans (statistically unlikely) you're going to be stuck with someone who is, for all practical purposes outside of sexual intercourse, their birth sex still. They won't think, walk, talk, or do much of anything as the opposite from their birth sex, because the brain simply won't know how.

[peggygee]

But the late transitioners often do become the face of transsexuality, and not in a good way. But I suspect thats because they stick out more like sore thumbs, and are often more obvious about struggling with making the adjustment; they find themselves having a lot more explaining to do, and speaking for us all. I don't necessarily blame them for it, but it doesn't help matters.

I would agree with that. Someone who starts early and can pass may be out as out gets but unless she's walking around with a tshirt that boldly says "I'm trans," the general public might well never know in just passing her in a store or the mall.


And that's why I think "true" and "untrue" are a slippery slope.

I do think that Benjamin's choice of terminology was more than a tick unfortunate. If he had just plainly setup his tier system so it read something like; "transsexuals who need SRS," and "transsexuals who need all but SRS" instead of this true versus untrue stuff, I doubt people would get their panties tied in knots so easily over it.

However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.

I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.


I agree with all of that, but I still try to present things in a way that the average breeder and/or heterosexist can understand. ;)

lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.


Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm very much ok with concepts like 'girls look and behave like mommy' and 'boys look and behave like daddy'. I just don't think that what we use to pee or have orgasms with should determine whether you're a boy or a girl. :P

That's actually what I was trying to get at the other day in that thread where Bella and I were talking about a few similar things.

At the end of the day the brain is the most definitively important sex characteristic there is. Not everyone with a vagina is going to think, act, or perform functions like a girl. Not everyone with a penis is going to think, act, or perform functions like a guy- the brain dictates how the person does, pretty much, everything. You could take anyone off the street, give them SRS- and while they might be legally another sex after the fact (depending on what state you're in), unless you lucked into picking someone who was trans (statistically unlikely) you're going to be stuck with someone who is, for all practical purposes outside of sexual intercourse, their birth sex still. They won't think, walk, talk, or do much of anything as the opposite from their birth sex, because the brain simply won't know how.

Great response, particularly this:



I do think that Benjamin's choice of terminology was more than a tick unfortunate. If he had just plainly setup his tier system so it read something like; "transsexuals who need SRS," and "transsexuals who need all but SRS" instead of this true versus untrue stuff, I doubt people would get their panties tied in knots so easily over it.

However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.

I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.

And this:


lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.

The thread had pretty much evolved / devolved, depending on your
perspective to something that only a "true" gender theorist would have
an interest in.

[Nicole Dupre]

However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.

I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.

I agree, but elitism doesn't end with transsexuals and is not inherently bad. Women are often as obsessed with out-doing each other as transsexuals are. Women also become sex-workers, but some are more self-destructive than others. Being a Hooters girl is not necessarily a dead end, but it may create validation and self-esteem issues.

In regards to the HBS, I also think a much more useful distinction would be to divide pantie fetishists, who masturbate in private, and those who live their lives as women. "True" and everything not "true" is perhaps not intentionally divisive language, but is a horrible place establish a status quo at. Look at the way a self-loathing closet case like Phobun conveniently employs it on a TS porn forum.




lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.

Well, most guys here wouldn't know the HBS from HBO. They're still wresting with their manhood and sexuality, over concepts like a great pair of tits being attached to body with a big cock. The theme of the forum is "HUNG angels". I don't use terms like shemale anywhere but places like here. But I recognize the broader spectrum, and so do most people on my side of the equation. ;)

[blacktgirls]

i often think about it too what do tgirls do when they get older ... would love to hear from older girls about this ...

I'm one of the oldest women that I know of. Of the women that I came up
with, of my contemporaries all are dead, and none died of old age or
natural causes.

Back in the day, I was wild and adventurous, engaged in a lot of "sex,
drugs, and rock and roll." But I also knew that I wanted to live a long
time, and that was a possibilty given the genetics on both sides of my
family.

Thus I made a good foundation for the future by furthering my education,
seeking counselling on things that troubled me, and basically solving
problems in my life that I had the ability too solve.

As a result many of the goals that I strived for in life have been achieved.
I was able to obtain GRS, I'm clean and sober, I work a mainstream job.
Basically I have assimilated, and I'm just a regular Black woman, which
was pretty much what I desired from the onset.

Today, I observe and speak with quite a few younger transwomen, who
by choice or necessity seem to live only for today.

They appear to live as if their mantra was 'Live fast, die young and leave a
good looking corpse' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927)

With all due respect, after the 3 or so years you've been here, I really have to question what the big motivation is behind all of the endorsing you do of SRS. I do know that for for some older TS, its a jealousy/"misery loves company" thing. At this point, I think the urgency for SRS, and even stealth, is nowhere close to what it was when you transitioned. The idea that SRS makes you "complete" is disappearing. The HBS are borderline offensive, although they were indeed all we had to legitimize our yearning to make a little progress for so long. Back in the day, the first thing they did when you said you wanted to transition was give you an orchi, which in retrospect is a very extreme course of action. In contrast, now it's generally the second to last thing girls do.

I also think stats on TS are probably some of the most inaccurate of all. Most TS aren't coming forward to actually say they're TS, unless they work in the adult industry where it only behooves them. In addition, most of the girls doing well in that industry, like most of the ones who regularly post here, are beating the odds of your observation. Stealth girls don't share info. Younger TS have more love and support from they're families and won't face these same struggles that the girls before them did.

And how many not-so-attractive late bloomers do we see, who live to a ripe old age but couldn't pass if they're lives depended on it? They lived 75% of their lives as men, and now they want to champion the cause of going to a 3rd world country and buying a firecracker pussy with their 401k money. But what they do, inadvertently or not, is make us all look like freaks. Look at the UK where they've made srs part of their social medicine program. They're sending brick after dickless brick into the world, and they talk like they represent anyone more than themselves.

So I dunno, Peggy. Maybe you're being helpful, but I think these anecdotes you often share are are a bit insular, if not sanctimonious at times. I have to wonder if you're not romanticizing more about being a crusader than you are being an instrument of practical change. Tell me more about what you do for your sisters beyond copy and paste stuff onto forums, and perhaps you'll change my perspective.

Are there potential trappings in the sex worker lifestyle? Yes. But many GGs and gay men are up against the same thing, and no operation is the cure-all. And plenty of pre-ops, in fact, do just fine.i believe the answer to your question lies in in this thread http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=49778Peggygee is right in that Ts who work in the porn and escorting business tend to live shorter lives than the TS of who work regular jobs in society . here on HA we have 2 girls who are best friends and who both are working in the sex trade . 1 girl is middle aged and has escorted for years and has also done porn and the 2nd girl who is in her mid 20's has escorted since her early teens and too has done porn . In the last 2 years the younger friend has aged in dog years and looks 10 years older than her actual age . over the next 10 years these 2 friends will make an interesting study of just what happens to TS sex workers when they get older . if they are still living in 10 years .

[Helvis2012]

dc_guy_75 wrote:

Unfortunately, many tgirls have bypassed working on legit careers or higher education to pay for their needs at the time, I picture nursing or being a real estate agent good career choices...

Maybe I'm generalizing,


Duhhhhhh.......ya think so? Instead of making rash assumptions about and peculiar career choices for others why not work on mastering the art of the complete sentence? :roll:

[Floyd R]

Nicole, will you invite me to your house for Thanksgiving dinner?



No, as was clear in your attack on Peggygee, you're the one with issues about operative status. There is a home here for post-op transsexuals and guys who like them here, regardless of whether that makes you uncomfortable."Uncomfortable" around post ops? lol Wake up and smell the coffee. One of my dearest and best friends is a post op TS, and she's emotionally light years beyond Peggy imho. She wouldn't waste her time on a pre-op porn forum doing public relations for post ops for a minute. She transitioned in her early teens, and had srs well over 10 years ago. If she invites me to her home for Christmas dinner, don't you think we'd know each other well enough to be more than "comfortable" with one another's value systems?

Please answer one direct question. Have you ever had a close relationship of any kind with any type of TS, pre or post?

[Nicole Dupre]

Nicole, will you invite me to your house for Thanksgiving dinner?

Sorry, Floyd, but I've already accepted an invitation. :)

[Felicia Katt]

Nicole, will you invite me to your house for Thanksgiving dinner?

Sorry, Floyd, but I've already accepted an invitation. :)

At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)

FK

[helmetvonzeplin]

I am thinking of opening a non profit retirement home for transsexuals out in Palm Springs,CA, minimum age will be 54 and will try to gear expenses to reality. Contact me if you are interested in signing up.

Your information and points are well taken, thanks. I do think that there is a difference however between the affluent t-girls in prime American cities and those prostitutes in Mexico, Africa etc. Many here who are not subject to addiction or disease are able to retire to a decent old age with some material wealth and comfort. Old age is no fun for anyone when health issues intercede.

[Nicole Dupre]

At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)

FK

Hey! What's that bone doing in there?!?

[Northof60]

they probably do the same thing that every porn star does when their looks go.

Hopefully they planned for it and their past as a porn star doesn't fuck them too bad out of another career.

They join the MILF scene or in this case it would be the TILF scene.

[peggygee]

At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)

FK

Hey! What's that bone doing in there?!?

For the holidays I usually have duck or goose.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/gangstaduck.jpg

But that was funny you two, tickled my tail feather.

:lol:

[drock]

WELL FOR MYSELF IM PUSHING 40 SO IM SAYING MY MONEY AND I PLAN ON GIONG BACK TO COLLEGE OR FASHION SCHOOL
AND I HOPE TO OWN A BUSINESS MAYBE A NITECLUB FOR GAYS AND TRANSPEOPLE O GET INTO THE HOTEL BUSINESS

BUT FASHIN IS MY PASSION SO GOD WILLING ILL BE OKAY AS I GET OLDER

you look great baby

[LilWyte]

i fucked a milf once

[helmetvonzeplin]

i fucked a milf once
I know, shit happens to all of us, the trick is to fuck the mother and the daughter without either one knowing about it, then you get them both to a attend a party where you show up and tell their secret in front of everyone, sort of a Jerry Springer moment....this works even better if the husband/father is present

[Floyd R]

I've had duck a few times and it was always too oily for my liking. Do you have a special way of preparing duck?






At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)

FK

Hey! What's that bone doing in there?!?

For the holidays I usually have duck or goose.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/gangstaduck.jpg

But that was funny you two, tickled my tail feather.

:lol:

[tiramisu]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

[peggygee]

I am thinking of opening a non profit retirement home for transsexuals out in Palm Springs,CA, minimum age will be 54 and will try to gear expenses to reality. Contact me if you are interested in signing up.

Your information and points are well taken, thanks. I do think that there is a difference however between the affluent t-girls in prime American cities and those prostitutes in Mexico, Africa etc. Many here who are not subject to addiction or disease are able to retire to a decent old age with some material wealth and comfort. Old age is no fun for anyone when health issues intercede.

You're most welcome. :wink:

I believe that is the whole premise of this discussion. Of the women in the
sex industry, very few earn $200 - $300 per hour consistently.

Then too age is the great equalizer, as was stated the sex industry is one
dominated by the young. Chasers are always seeking out the
next "pretty, young thing".

Thus if a "working girl" hasn't squirreled away some serious coinage, or
put in place a second career, then she will see her earning capacity
diminish as she gets older.

Finally, it might be hypothesized that the earnings of the women in those
countries is comparable when we take into account the costs of living
there versus here.

Though ideally if a woman from an impovervished nation were to escort
in Europe or America, or Canada, and send the money home she might be
able to maximize her earning potential.

[peggygee]

I've had duck a few times and it was always too oily for my liking. Do you have a special way of preparing duck?






At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)

FK

Hey! What's that bone doing in there?!?

For the holidays I usually have duck or goose.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/gangstaduck.jpg

But that was funny you two, tickled my tail feather.

:lol:

When I tell folks that I have prepared a duck, that is usually their chief
concern, that it will be oily and fatty.

I would say that the key and obvious method is to drain the fat, not
let it sit in itt's own fat, and that making it crispy alleviates alot of those
issues.

If you have a rotisserie or broiler equipped with a rotating spit on which
meat cooks as it turns that can help, but if you don't you need to ensure
that you get rid of us much fat as you can.

I make duck several times a yeear, not just at the holidays and it's
always a crowd pleaser.

Here's some more info:
http://www.helpwithcooking.com/cooking-poultry/roast-duck.html

[peggygee]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

I have seen that, and also women who de-transition. Particularly
amongst those who didn't take any estrogens or have any feminizing
cosmetic procedures.

When they are young and men are at their live's, it's cute. But as they get
older and testosterone hardens them and they continue to masculinize,
then men lose interest in them and they start to regret their attempted
transitions, and may live the rest of their live's as gay men.

[lisaparadise]

they probably do the same thing that every porn star does when their looks go.

Hopefully they planned for it and their past as a porn star doesn't fuck them too bad out of another career.

They join the MILF scene or in this case it would be the TILF scene.lol,nice one lol trust me theres a huge market for us older woman,so the question is what happens when we get old hmmmm we get much better with age you be the judge

[phobun]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

I have seen that, and also women who de-transition. Particularly
amongst those who didn't take any estrogens or have any feminizing
cosmetic procedures.

When they are young and men are at their live's, it's cute. But as they get
older and testosterone hardens them and they continue to masculinize,
then men lose interest in them and they start to regret their attempted
transitions, and may live the rest of their live's as gay men.It could be argued that they were never really transsexual anyway.

A few of these might have been "gayboys with boobs" calling themselves TS, and they definitely should not have surgery. I believe that Josef dude with the mangina website is pretty open about having detransitioned after originally transitioning because he could not accept himself as a gay man.

Others are merely confused souls and find all sorts of targets for blame... one guy in England is suing his doctor for misdiagnosing him as transsexual.

[MrF]

Clearly, getting older is a universal problem: we're all in the same boat ! You have to take care of your health -- physical, mental, and spiritual -- and don't stop growing, developing, reading, exercising, etc.

As several old guys have told me, "It's no fun growing old, but the alternative is much worse !" (I'm sure that's a famous quotation but I'm too lazy dig up the attribution.) Well, maybe the science of biology will find a cure for growing old someday, but presumably not in my lifetime. Sigh.

[yodajazz]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

I have seen that, and also women who de-transition. Particularly
amongst those who didn't take any estrogens or have any feminizing
cosmetic procedures.

When they are young and men are at their live's, it's cute. But as they get
older and testosterone hardens them and they continue to masculinize,
then men lose interest in them and they start to regret their attempted
transitions, and may live the rest of their live's as gay men.It could be argued that they were never really transsexual anyway.

A few of these might have been "gayboys with boobs" calling themselves TS, and they definitely should not have surgery. I believe that Josef dude with the mangina website is pretty open about having detransitioned after originally transitioning because he could not accept himself as a gay man.

Others are merely confused souls and find all sorts of targets for blame... one guy in England is suing his doctor for misdiagnosing him as transsexual.
While it may be true that some who detransition were never really transexual. That sounds more like people who have to feel that are 'more trans' than others to feel secure about their own identity. Human identity evolves over a lifetime. Who is to say that gender identity expression could not shift over a period of time, based upon positive or negative reinforcement? They could have been a true type at one time, but shifted intensity.

PeggyGee noted the different types as defined by Benajmin. I say that someone go from one level of intensity to another over time. And who's to say that a person who detransistioned was not facing heavy social pressures to express as thier original gender. This would include finding employment.

[phobun]

While it may be true that some who detransition were never really transexual. That sounds more like people who have to feel that are 'more trans' than others to feel secure about their own identity. Human identity evolves over a lifetime. Who is to say that gender identity expression could not shift over a period of time, based upon positive or negative reinforcement? They could have been a true type at one time, but shifted intensity.

PeggyGee noted the different types as defined by Benajmin. I say that someone go from one level of intensity to another over time. And who's to say that a person who detransistioned was not facing heavy social pressures to express as thier original gender. This would include finding employment.Those are fair points.

[Nicole Dupre]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

I have seen that, and also women who de-transition. Particularly
amongst those who didn't take any estrogens or have any feminizing
cosmetic procedures.

When they are young and men are at their live's, it's cute. But as they get
older and testosterone hardens them and they continue to masculinize,
then men lose interest in them and they start to regret their attempted
transitions, and may live the rest of their live's as gay men.It could be argued that they were never really transsexual anyway.

A few of these might have been "gayboys with boobs" calling themselves TS, and they definitely should not have surgery. I believe that Josef dude with the mangina website is pretty open about having detransitioned after originally transitioning because he could not accept himself as a gay man.

Others are merely confused souls and find all sorts of targets for blame... one guy in England is suing his doctor for misdiagnosing him as transsexual.

It could be argued that, since you'll never meet a TS anyway, it doesn't really matter.

How's that first time thing going for you? Making lots of progress on this forum? lol

[wombat33]

Where I live there is a transexual woman who is EASILY 70 years old if not older.

She is a perfectly cool person and a good neighbor. The voice is very obvious, and I hate to admit it but it is a little uncomfortable talking with her.

It also makes me wonder about my own morals..............we love t girls....................as long as they are young, hot and hung...............

[yodajazz]

Where I live there is a transexual woman who is EASILY 70 years old if not older.

She is a perfectly cool person and a good neighbor. The voice is very obvious, and I hate to admit it but it is a little uncomfortable talking with her.

It also makes me wonder about my own morals..............we love t girls....................as long as they are young, hot and hung...............
I don't know. Lots of older women get some crazy things happening with their voices. Think about Bea Arthur of the "Golden Girls". Plus, I heard she had a body to die for in her younger years.

[BrendaQG]

When they get old and reach 60 i think they regret beeing a transgender.

I have seen that, and also women who de-transition. Particularly
amongst those who didn't take any estrogens or have any feminizing
cosmetic procedures.

When they are young and men are at their live's, it's cute. But as they get
older and testosterone hardens them and they continue to masculinize,
then men lose interest in them and they start to regret their attempted
transitions, and may live the rest of their live's as gay men.It could be argued that they were never really transsexual anyway.

A few of these might have been "gayboys with boobs" calling themselves TS, and they definitely should not have surgery. I believe that Josef dude with the mangina website is pretty open about having detransitioned after originally transitioning because he could not accept himself as a gay man.

Others are merely confused souls and find all sorts of targets for blame... one guy in England is suing his doctor for misdiagnosing him as transsexual.
While it may be true that some who detransition were never really transexual. That sounds more like people who have to feel that are 'more trans' than others to feel secure about their own identity. Human identity evolves over a lifetime. Who is to say that gender identity expression could not shift over a period of time, based upon positive or negative reinforcement? They could have been a true type at one time, but shifted intensity.

PeggyGee noted the different types as defined by Benajmin. I say that someone go from one level of intensity to another over time. And who's to say that a person who detransistioned was not facing heavy social pressures to express as thier original gender. This would include finding employment.

I wrote this a little while ago "Gender, Society and the Brain. How aggression and culture make us the gender we are. (http://www.scientificblogging.com/quantum_gravity/blog/gender_society_and_brain_how_aggression_and_cultur e_make_us_gender_we_are)". As I see it gender is 1% biology and 99% culture, and learned behavior. That 1% makes us want to learn this behavior or that other behavior.

[HP1000]

Maybe they become Democrats? :D

[Nicole Dupre]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.

[yodajazz]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

[Nicole Dupre]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot. So why wouldn't I be offended? FACT: I most assuredly DO make it, and so do lots of girls. She's finding isolated cases in Africa to back that bullshit up? Get real.

Escorting experiences are as unique as the individual doing the job. It's like saying that the food service industry amounts to being a pushcart hotdog vendor, simply because you're not a gourmet chef. Anybody cutting an onion could lose a finger ie. every job has it's occupational hazards. She's saying she did the "sex, drugs, and r'n'r" thing. When? 20 or 30 years ago? Newsflash: it's 2009. I want to know who these sad bitches are that she's referring to. People she knows? Suggestion: get out more. Everything is not as it is in your backyard.

Let me tell you something. I've known PLENTY of transsexuals, of all ages. Many are post ops. All of the older ones were conditioned to believe that getting SRS made you "complete". Most of their vaginas are a few inches deep and have no mucosa. I don't envy them. But I've known PLENTY who envy us. Some are honest enough to say so, but many aren't.

Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack. But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.

Furthermore, this is a HUNG forum. If you're going to chill out here, why talk shit about the industry that pays the light bill?

[yodajazz]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot. So why wouldn't I be offended? FACT: I most assuredly DO make it, and so do lots of girls. She's finding isolated cases in Africa to back that bullshit up? Get real.

Escorting experiences are as unique as the individual doing the job. It's like saying that the food service industry amounts to being a pushcart hotdog vendor, simply because you're not a gourmet chef. Anybody cutting an onion could lose a finger ie. every job has it's occupational hazards. She's saying she did the "sex, drugs, and r'n'r" thing. When? 20 or 30 years ago? Newsflash: it's 2009. I want to know who these sad bitches are that she's referring to. People she knows? Suggestion: get out more. Everything is not as it is in your backyard.

Let me tell you something. I've known PLENTY of transsexuals, of all ages. Many are post ops. All of the older ones were conditioned to believe that getting SRS made you "complete". Most of their vaginas are a few inches deep and have no mucosa. I don't envy them. But I've known PLENTY who envy us. Some are honest enough to say so, but many aren't.

Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack. But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.

Furthermore, this is a HUNG forum. If you're going to chill out here, why talk shit about the industry that pays the light bill?

It sounds like you disagree with Peggy on a specific set of facts. Yet you attack her in general, like saying that she is here for another reason. This takes discussions to another place and everything becomes personal.

But let’s address the issue of escorts. Sure there are some that make $300 an hour. But I would bet for everyone of those there are five like Chanel in New Orleans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nliJUTZlDn0&feature=related
She is open about her life here. She made $100 on Friday, Saturday she was too depressed to work. She admits to having drug problems and is HIV positive. She can’t even get to her clothes and possession cause there at someone’s home she’s having a disagreement with. Her earnings are down, now that she is a little older. She wishes she had put money away when she was earning more. Her and Telaasia, say that they did not know that other possibilities existed in life for trans women, when they were younger. So for them it was about being aware that there are other choices. I believe this represents the view of large numbers of trans women.

PeggyGee has been about empowering trans women to able to make choices. For example, she listed employers who are known to be trans friendly. When I check the Eros listings I see maybe 20-25 listing for the whole state. That does not seem like a lots opportunities to me. It’s not about criticizing the escorts who make that amount of money. It just seem that the life is not for everyone.

I do not question you on the fact there are post op women who regret there surgeries. In some places the law will not grant legal recognition to them as female, unless they have the surgery. There are social pressures to conform. But this does not mean that some are not happy either. Some go for additional surgeries to correct problems. If Peggy says she is happy, I have to respect her words and be happy for her.

Here is the part one for the video about Chanel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_beDjZRkzKM
It is good that there is someone like Telaasia Black to show the lives of these untold stories.

[Nicole Dupre]

Let's not compare apples and oranges. I'm going by what she said, and nothing more, The last thing I'd do is say that being post op is not a worthy option. But it's how she's presenting it that I don't like. First, she subscribes to the idea of true and untrue, and that's easily as elitist as making FFS any kind of issue. Second, if she wants to lend a hand to other TS, being sanctimonious is not going to help her cause. She speculating about what escorts make, so I'm speculating why she's speculating. And there's plenty to indicate that her motivation is exactly what I think it is. Again, I know enough post ops who aren't attempting to take the moral high ground that she is. In addition, she doesn't even have anything concrete to base postion on. If she wants to help, imo she's picked a shitty way. I can Google TG employment resources, copy and paste it, and so can anyone. Nice idea, but lets not piss on our sisters' backs and tell them its raining.

[peggygee]

Nicole, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but in my case I am
going to have to say that you are wrong.

Not shady, jealous, regretful of GRS, or the litanty of other allegations
that you have levied.

I will say though that the reason that I made the posts about older escorts
in foreign countries was to show the types of services offered to them by
their respective governments, not to iindict the sex industry.

[yodajazz]

Let's not compare apples and oranges. I'm going by what she said, and nothing more, The last thing I'd do is say that being post op is not a worthy option. But it's how she's presenting it that I don't like. First, she subscribes to the idea of true and untrue, and that's easily as elitist as making FFS any kind of issue. Second, if she wants to lend a hand to other TS, being sanctimonious is not going to help her cause. She speculating about what escorts make, so I'm speculating why she's speculating. And there's plenty to indicate that her motivation is exactly what I think it is. Again, I know enough post ops who aren't attempting to take the moral high ground that she is. In addition, she doesn't even have anything concrete to base postion on. If she wants to help, imo she's picked a shitty way. I can Google TG employment resources, copy and paste it, and so can anyone. Nice idea, but lets not piss on our sisters' backs and tell them its raining.

Having srs may not be an option for you, that's an individuals' choice, but it is the major option for many transwomen. This site says that there are 30,000 to 40,000 post op women in the US.
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html
The woman who made this site is a post op who is a computer engineer. She has biographies of numerous successful post op women here.

But I have heard many times stories about girl's lives. Many drop out of high school due to harrasment. Then later they meet a fabuous looking trans woman, who happens to be in sex work. The woman takes tthe youth under her wing, and takes her into 'the life'. This life involves sex work in an athmosphere of drugs and alcohol. They have fun as young pretty things but life changes. They find themselves like Chanel in the video.

Yeah people like PeggyGee and myself do attemp to take the moral high ground. it seems to me that many trans community does not have enough morality. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking girls hating on one another, picking on people because of their looks, not providing good service in their business, and most ironically of all judging other people because of their sexual tastes.

So while certain people might not be your favorites, maybe some girl out there does need to hear a positive message, or at least about better ways to live. PeggyGee should get props as being the oldest admitted trans woman here.

[keyplay]

Hmm, I'm getting older, and better!
Soo an older girl can be becutiful, with more expierence and less childish bullshit.

I find you to be very very sexy! I've commented in a couple threads about your "hot appearance". :D

[peggygee]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot. So why wouldn't I be offended? FACT: I most assuredly DO make it, and so do lots of girls. She's finding isolated cases in Africa to back that bullshit up? Get real.

Escorting experiences are as unique as the individual doing the job. It's like saying that the food service industry amounts to being a pushcart hotdog vendor, simply because you're not a gourmet chef. Anybody cutting an onion could lose a finger ie. every job has it's occupational hazards. She's saying she did the "sex, drugs, and r'n'r" thing. When? 20 or 30 years ago? Newsflash: it's 2009. I want to know who these sad bitches are that she's referring to. People she knows? Suggestion: get out more. Everything is not as it is in your backyard.

Let me tell you something. I've known PLENTY of transsexuals, of all ages. Many are post ops. All of the older ones were conditioned to believe that getting SRS made you "complete". Most of their vaginas are a few inches deep and have no mucosa. I don't envy them. But I've known PLENTY who envy us. Some are honest enough to say so, but many aren't.

Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack. But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.

Furthermore, this is a HUNG forum. If you're going to chill out here, why talk shit about the industry that pays the light bill?

It sounds like you disagree with Peggy on a specific set of facts. Yet you attack her in general, like saying that she is here for another reason. This takes discussions to another place and everything becomes personal.

But let’s address the issue of escorts. Sure there are some that make $300 an hour. But I would bet for everyone of those there are five like Chanel in New Orleans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nliJUTZlDn0&feature=related
She is open about her life here. She made $100 on Friday, Saturday she was too depressed to work. She admits to having drug problems and is HIV positive. She can’t even get to her clothes and possession cause there at someone’s home she’s having a disagreement with. Her earnings are down, now that she is a little older. She wishes she had put money away when she was earning more. Her and Telaasia, say that they did not know that other possibilities existed in life for trans women, when they were younger. So for them it was about being aware that there are other choices. I believe this represents the view of large numbers of trans women.

PeggyGee has been about empowering trans women to able to make choices. For example, she listed employers who are known to be trans friendly. When I check the Eros listings I see maybe 20-25 listing for the whole state. That does not seem like a lots opportunities to me. It’s not about criticizing the escorts who make that amount of money. It just seem that the life is not for everyone.

I do not question you on the fact there are post op women who regret there surgeries. In some places the law will not grant legal recognition to them as female, unless they have the surgery. There are social pressures to conform. But this does not mean that some are not happy either. Some go for additional surgeries to correct problems. If Peggy says she is happy, I have to respect her words and be happy for her.

Here is the part one for the video about Chanel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_beDjZRkzKM
It is good that there is someone like Telaasia Black to show the lives of these untold stories.

Thank you very much Yodajazz. :wink:

I did wonder how long before the ad hominen attacks wouuld occur from her.


Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack.

But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.



Most def not hating, and hate to burst your balloon sweety but I do turn
heads, get flirted with, give wood, though I don't identify as a tranny.

And Nicole, talking about looks isn't the best move on your part. :smh

My validation dooes't come from the tranny ghetto, but from the real
world.

As to gettinng my bills paid, they do, by me and my 9 to 5.

By the way Nicole have you finally run out of forums and girls to argue
on and with, and do you plan on doiing this for dozens of threads and
whenever I post.

Cause in my 3+ years on the forums I have seen you get into beef with
just about everyone, from the owners, to the mods, the girls and the
guys.

Won't this take cost you, and take time away from your thriving escort business?

Alas sadly Nicole I may not be a worthy adversary for you as I do not
have the time or inclination to go post to inane post with you, as I have a
life in the real world. :shrug

[lisaparadise]

this topic has been nasty since the start,you people need to chill abit.this could have been a great topic but its ruined ,,,,,unreal

[Nicole Dupre]

Nicole, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but in my case I am
going to have to say that you are wrong.

Not shady, jealous, regretful of GRS, or the litanty of other allegations
that you have levied.

I will say though that the reason that I made the posts about older escorts
in foreign countries was to show the types of services offered to them by
their respective governments, not to iindict the sex industry.

If I'm right, I wouldn't have actually expected you admit anything. ;) lol

Anyway, you posted your own "facts and figures" based on what you claim to be your own personal experiences. I don't think it's fair to speak about things you have no recent and/or intimate knowledge about and expect people, who do, to not challenge them if they think you're off base. So I suppose we'll just agree to disagree.

But I'm not going to discount the phenomenon of older TS who somewhat regret having SRS and therefore have jealousy issues. You also can't deny that SRS was almost an assumed course of action. Bilateral orchiectomies were basically the rule and not the exception.

Btw, if you don't mind me asking; was your total srs performed with 1 or 2 surgeries? By whom was the surgery performed? And where and when was the surgery performed?

[peggygee]

Let's not compare apples and oranges. I'm going by what she said, and nothing more, The last thing I'd do is say that being post op is not a worthy option. But it's how she's presenting it that I don't like. First, she subscribes to the idea of true and untrue, and that's easily as elitist as making FFS any kind of issue. Second, if she wants to lend a hand to other TS, being sanctimonious is not going to help her cause. She speculating about what escorts make, so I'm speculating why she's speculating. And there's plenty to indicate that her motivation is exactly what I think it is. Again, I know enough post ops who aren't attempting to take the moral high ground that she is. In addition, she doesn't even have anything concrete to base postion on. If she wants to help, imo she's picked a shitty way. I can Google TG employment resources, copy and paste it, and so can anyone. Nice idea, but lets not piss on our sisters' backs and tell them its raining.

Having srs may not be an option for you, that's an individuals' choice, but it is the major option for many transwomen. This site says that there are 30,000 to 40,000 post op women in the US.
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html
The woman who made this site is a post op who is a computer engineer. She has biographies of numerous successful post op women here.

But I have heard many times stories about girl's lives. Many drop out of high school due to harrasment. Then later they meet a fabuous looking trans woman, who happens to be in sex work. The woman takes tthe youth under her wing, and takes her into 'the life'. This life involves sex work in an athmosphere of drugs and alcohol. They have fun as young pretty things but life changes. They find themselves like Chanel in the video.

Yeah people like PeggyGee and myself do attemp to take the moral high ground. it seems to me that many trans community does not have enough morality. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking girls hating on one another, picking on people because of their looks, not providing good service in their business, and most ironically of all judging other people because of their sexual tastes.

So while certain people might not be your favorites, maybe some girl out there does need to hear a positive message, or at least about better ways to live. PeggyGee should get props here as being the oldest admitted trans woman.

Yoda, I took a look at Chanel's video, and it was powerful, and feel that
it is a must see.

And you are right about taking a moral high ground. And I like you am
not talking about the ethics and morality of the sex industry, but rather
being positive, doing good for yourself and others.

Nicole, and some may feel that I come from a holier than thou place, that
I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and nothing could be further
from the truth. Rather it is because of where I have been and things that
I have done, that I say the things I say.

Some may not approve of my methods, that is unfortunate, but as I have
stated in the past my motives are pure and altrustic. Indeed I would
encourage those who allege that I am shady to pick up the gauntlet, to
not always be being catty to one another, always enagaging in in-fighting,
and to remember that if they are not part of the solution, then they truly
are part of the problem.

Easy to say Peggy ain't this, she ain't that, she think her shit don't stink,
but it's much harder to try and help another girl unknownst to yourself.

So perhaps the question isn't what has Peggy done for the community,
but rather what have you done or are doing for it.

[Nicole Dupre]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot. So why wouldn't I be offended? FACT: I most assuredly DO make it, and so do lots of girls. She's finding isolated cases in Africa to back that bullshit up? Get real.

Escorting experiences are as unique as the individual doing the job. It's like saying that the food service industry amounts to being a pushcart hotdog vendor, simply because you're not a gourmet chef. Anybody cutting an onion could lose a finger ie. every job has it's occupational hazards. She's saying she did the "sex, drugs, and r'n'r" thing. When? 20 or 30 years ago? Newsflash: it's 2009. I want to know who these sad bitches are that she's referring to. People she knows? Suggestion: get out more. Everything is not as it is in your backyard.

Let me tell you something. I've known PLENTY of transsexuals, of all ages. Many are post ops. All of the older ones were conditioned to believe that getting SRS made you "complete". Most of their vaginas are a few inches deep and have no mucosa. I don't envy them. But I've known PLENTY who envy us. Some are honest enough to say so, but many aren't.

Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack. But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.

Furthermore, this is a HUNG forum. If you're going to chill out here, why talk shit about the industry that pays the light bill?

It sounds like you disagree with Peggy on a specific set of facts. Yet you attack her in general, like saying that she is here for another reason. This takes discussions to another place and everything becomes personal.

But let’s address the issue of escorts. Sure there are some that make $300 an hour. But I would bet for everyone of those there are five like Chanel in New Orleans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nliJUTZlDn0&feature=related
She is open about her life here. She made $100 on Friday, Saturday she was too depressed to work. She admits to having drug problems and is HIV positive. She can’t even get to her clothes and possession cause there at someone’s home she’s having a disagreement with. Her earnings are down, now that she is a little older. She wishes she had put money away when she was earning more. Her and Telaasia, say that they did not know that other possibilities existed in life for trans women, when they were younger. So for them it was about being aware that there are other choices. I believe this represents the view of large numbers of trans women.

PeggyGee has been about empowering trans women to able to make choices. For example, she listed employers who are known to be trans friendly. When I check the Eros listings I see maybe 20-25 listing for the whole state. That does not seem like a lots opportunities to me. It’s not about criticizing the escorts who make that amount of money. It just seem that the life is not for everyone.

I do not question you on the fact there are post op women who regret there surgeries. In some places the law will not grant legal recognition to them as female, unless they have the surgery. There are social pressures to conform. But this does not mean that some are not happy either. Some go for additional surgeries to correct problems. If Peggy says she is happy, I have to respect her words and be happy for her.

Here is the part one for the video about Chanel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_beDjZRkzKM
It is good that there is someone like Telaasia Black to show the lives of these untold stories.

Thank you very much Yodajazz. :wink:

I did wonder how long before the ad hominen attacks wouuld occur from her.


Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack.

But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.



Most def not hating, and hate to burst your balloon sweety but I do turn
heads, get flirted with, give wood, though I don't identify as a tranny.

And Nicole, talking about looks isn't the best move on your part. :smh

My validation dooes't come from the tranny ghetto, but from the real
world.

As to gettinng my bills paid, they do, by me and my 9 to 5.

By the way Nicole have you finally run out of forums and girls to argue
on and with, and do you plan on doiing this for dozens of threads and
whenever I post.

Cause in my 3+ years on the forums I have seen you get into beef with
just about everyone, from the owners, to the mods, the girls and the
guys.

Won't this take cost you, and take time away from your thriving escort business?

Alas sadly Nicole I may not be a worthy adversary for you as I do not
have the time or inclination to go post to inane post with you, as I have a
life in the real world. :shrug

The fact alone that you couldn't come back and easily prove me wrong with some stats speaks volumes. But like I sad, you're pulling your info out of your ass and it's not cute.

And if you can't take the the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But don't play the victim. I'd love for you to prove me wrong. Do you think I get my jollies from making escorting look like a glamorous profession? All I asked for was a little substantiated accuracy. Don't have a cow.

Oh, and you're not shady? Drop the TS Mother Teresa bullshit. FYI I'm not interested in whether or not I'm pushing the sexual buttons for a bisexual granny tranny. So, by all means, get "kicking it" elsewhere. I've seen pics of that mug. P.S. My picture is up, and yours isn't. You do the math.

Btw, I have time do do a number of things I feel like doing, so don't hate. lol

[peggygee]

Nicole, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but in my case I am
going to have to say that you are wrong.

Not shady, jealous, regretful of GRS, or the litanty of other allegations
that you have levied.

I will say though that the reason that I made the posts about older escorts
in foreign countries was to show the types of services offered to them by
their respective governments, not to iindict the sex industry.

If I'm right, I wouldn't have actually expected you admit anything. ;) lol

Anyway, you posted your own "facts and figures" based on what you claim to be your own personal experiences. I don't think it's fair to speak about things you have no recent and/or intimate knowledge about and expect people, who do, to not challenge them if they think you're off base. So I suppose we'll just agree to disagree.

But I'm not going to discount the phenomenon of older TS who somewhat regret having SRS and therefore have jealousy issues. You also can't deny that SRS was almost an assumed course of action. Bilateral orchiectomies were basically the rule and not the exception.

Btw, if you don't mind me asking; was your total srs performed with 1 or 2 surgeries? By whom was the surgery performed? And where and when was the surgery performed?

Girl you must think I live in a iron lung, in a fortified prison, on a desert
island, and that I'm trapped in 1979, trust me I am very aware of what
is going on in "the life."



Btw, if you don't mind me asking; was your total srs performed with 1 or 2 surgeries? By whom was the surgery performed? And where and when was the surgery performed?


My surgery was performed 12 years ago, by Dr. Preecha the "Godfather
of GRS", in Thailand, and I have subsequently had labiaplasty.

[Nicole Dupre]

Girl you must think I live in a iron lung, in a fortified prison, on a desert
island, and that I'm trapped in 1979, trust me I am very aware of what
is going on in "the life." If you say so.

[peggygee]

Peggy is obviously being shady and jealous. I'm not impressed with the bullshit about "research" or helping other trannys. Talk's cheap. She's here because she's a transbian, and she's hoping to impress younger trannys with her pretentious authoritative pose. She obviously regrets srs, and she's not saying anything to prove otherwise.
This is a classic case of ... I'm not sure. But its a classic case of something.

Why don't you just accept people for who they are? Treat others like you would like to be treated. I'm impressed with PeggyGee. And I vow that she would not regret surgery if I got a hold of her. She's at a place that no other woman here has reached. I suggest you wait until you get her age now to criticize her.

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot. So why wouldn't I be offended? FACT: I most assuredly DO make it, and so do lots of girls. She's finding isolated cases in Africa to back that bullshit up? Get real.

Escorting experiences are as unique as the individual doing the job. It's like saying that the food service industry amounts to being a pushcart hotdog vendor, simply because you're not a gourmet chef. Anybody cutting an onion could lose a finger ie. every job has it's occupational hazards. She's saying she did the "sex, drugs, and r'n'r" thing. When? 20 or 30 years ago? Newsflash: it's 2009. I want to know who these sad bitches are that she's referring to. People she knows? Suggestion: get out more. Everything is not as it is in your backyard.

Let me tell you something. I've known PLENTY of transsexuals, of all ages. Many are post ops. All of the older ones were conditioned to believe that getting SRS made you "complete". Most of their vaginas are a few inches deep and have no mucosa. I don't envy them. But I've known PLENTY who envy us. Some are honest enough to say so, but many aren't.

Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack. But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.

Furthermore, this is a HUNG forum. If you're going to chill out here, why talk shit about the industry that pays the light bill?

It sounds like you disagree with Peggy on a specific set of facts. Yet you attack her in general, like saying that she is here for another reason. This takes discussions to another place and everything becomes personal.

But let’s address the issue of escorts. Sure there are some that make $300 an hour. But I would bet for everyone of those there are five like Chanel in New Orleans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nliJUTZlDn0&feature=related
She is open about her life here. She made $100 on Friday, Saturday she was too depressed to work. She admits to having drug problems and is HIV positive. She can’t even get to her clothes and possession cause there at someone’s home she’s having a disagreement with. Her earnings are down, now that she is a little older. She wishes she had put money away when she was earning more. Her and Telaasia, say that they did not know that other possibilities existed in life for trans women, when they were younger. So for them it was about being aware that there are other choices. I believe this represents the view of large numbers of trans women.

PeggyGee has been about empowering trans women to able to make choices. For example, she listed employers who are known to be trans friendly. When I check the Eros listings I see maybe 20-25 listing for the whole state. That does not seem like a lots opportunities to me. It’s not about criticizing the escorts who make that amount of money. It just seem that the life is not for everyone.

I do not question you on the fact there are post op women who regret there surgeries. In some places the law will not grant legal recognition to them as female, unless they have the surgery. There are social pressures to conform. But this does not mean that some are not happy either. Some go for additional surgeries to correct problems. If Peggy says she is happy, I have to respect her words and be happy for her.

Here is the part one for the video about Chanel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_beDjZRkzKM
It is good that there is someone like Telaasia Black to show the lives of these untold stories.

Thank you very much Yodajazz. :wink:

I did wonder how long before the ad hominen attacks wouuld occur from her.


Now, if Peggy was such a hot piece of ass when she was younger, I would love to see a picture. Based on what I have seen, she's not exactly Lena Horne. It's more than easy to come here and copy and paste articles and talk mad smack.

But that's certainly not proof of anything, especially when you're a tranny. Getting positive reactions from men is where the proof is; walking down the street and turning heads, getting flirted with, and having men get wood. It won't pay your bills unless you work it. It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted. Don't hate.



Most def not hating, and hate to burst your balloon sweety but I do turn
heads, get flirted with, give wood, though I don't identify as a tranny.

And Nicole, talking about looks isn't the best move on your part. :smh

My validation dooes't come from the tranny ghetto, but from the real
world.

As to gettinng my bills paid, they do, by me and my 9 to 5.

By the way Nicole have you finally run out of forums and girls to argue
on and with, and do you plan on doiing this for dozens of threads and
whenever I post.

Cause in my 3+ years on the forums I have seen you get into beef with
just about everyone, from the owners, to the mods, the girls and the
guys.

Won't this take cost you, and take time away from your thriving escort business?

Alas sadly Nicole I may not be a worthy adversary for you as I do not
have the time or inclination to go post to inane post with you, as I have a
life in the real world. :shrug

The fact alone that you couldn't come back and easily prove me wrong with some stats speaks volumes. But like I sad, you're pulling your info out of your ass and it's not cute.

And if you can't take the the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But don't play the victim. I'd love for you to prove me wrong. Do you think I get my jollies from making escorting look like a glamorous profession? All I asked for was a little substantiated accuracy. Don't have a cow.

Oh, and you're not shady? Drop the TS Mother Teresa bullshit. FYI I'm not interested in whether or not I'm pushing the sexual buttons for a bisexual granny tranny. So, by all means, get "kicking it" elsewhere. I've seen pics of that mug. P.S. My picture is up, and yours isn't. You do the math.

Btw, I have time do do a number of things I feel like doing, so don't hate. lol

Granny, not quite, and there's no shame for me that I like women
somewhat, but prefer men.

I have had my photo up before, however for the job that I'm in now that
would be problematic. And contrary to what you might have inferred I
don't work in human services, or with trans issues, and for a variety of
reasons I needed to go back to being more stealth, particularly on a porn
forum.

But don't try and imply a fugly, old brick image of me, which is far from
accurate, cause as I said, you really don't want to go there.

The prudent course of action is to stick to the topics at hand.

[SarahG]

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot.

Certainly it would be easy for attractive girls in their prime to make that kind of money, or better. But like you said, it's all about the individual. An older lady who hasn't aged well isn't going to be able to bring in that kind of money as easily, and if she has nothing to fall back on (no retirement, no education, no other work experience) her options might not be that good.

Unless things are very different for trans escorting, with GG's I would not expect many girls to make 200-300/hr into their mid to late 50s onward, and if they do, I would be surprised if they were still booking as many sessions as they did a decade or two earlier. After all, isn't youthfulness one of the standards of beauty in our society?

I think that's the bigger issue here. It isn't "shade" to mention that people usually can't rely on escorting for being their ONLY source of employment, for their entire lives. Having a retirement fund, education, health insurance, some other work experience- that's not elitism, that's just reality. Basic things like health insurance and a retirement income are things that everyone needs. Anyone in escorting should care about them, just as anyone else who is self employed does.


It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted.

Sure, why do you think so many girls in our society become grumpy in their old age, or become attracted to feminism when previously they didn't care for it? The way I've heard older girls describe being old is, in our society, it's like becoming invisible. People don't take you as seriously, people are less likely to interact with you, less likely to care about you the way they used to. Throw in how girls live longer and usually end up living a decade or more alone after their husband dies (assuming he hadn't left her for a younger girl by that point anyway)- growing old sucks. It's also a fate for everyone who doesn't die along the way from something else (be it murder, suicide, aids, car accidents, or anything else life can throw at people). But some of this conversation is somewhat offtopic, I don't believe anyone on HA is old enough to be retired (??).

[Nicole Dupre]

Granny, not quite, and there's no shame for me that I like women
somewhat, but prefer men.

I have had my photo up before, however for the job that I'm in now that
would be problematic. And contrary to what you might have inferred I
don't work in human services, or with trans issues, and for a variety of
reasons I needed to go back to being more stealth, particularly on a porn
forum.

But don't try and imply a fugly, old brick image of me, which is far from
accurate, cause as I said, you really don't want to go there.

The prudent course of action is to stick to the topics at hand.

Really now? Why don't I want to "go there"? You'll read me? Well please do, grandma. Bring all the bluffs you've got to the table, and we'll see where it takes you. lol

And "excuses, excuses" about your sacred anonymity. You've posted pics here before, so stop lying. I didn't call you a "fugly, old brick". Those are your words, not mine. ;) You're the one playing the tough old sexchange here. Again, "if you can't stand the heat', copy and paste something and kindly stfu. "The prudent course of action" was to not talk out of you ass in the first place, but I think it's a little too late.

But let's just say, I've seen your pics and that I think you've... 'passed your expiration date'. lol That shit about how the younger girls are bumping the older ones is a case of you "going there" first anyway. So don't get all insecure on me now. You've accidentally blurted out some shade, so get it off your chest. I'm not sweating you. ;)

Anyway, I thought you have better shit to do than "argue" with me? ;) lol

[Nicole Dupre]

Are you serious? She's saying that escorts don't make 200 to 300/hr consistently. That's a lie, and it's pretty shady to boot.

Certainly it would be easy for attractive girls in their prime to make that kind of money, or better. But like you said, it's all about the individual. An older lady who hasn't aged well isn't going to be able to bring in that kind of money as easily, and if she has nothing to fall back on (no retirement, no education, no other work experience) her options might not be that good.

Unless things are very different for trans escorting, with GG's I would not expect many girls to make 200-300/hr into their mid to late 50s onward, and if they do, I would be surprised if they were still booking as many sessions as they did a decade or two earlier. After all, isn't youthfulness one of the standards of beauty in our society?

I think that's the bigger issue here. It isn't "shade" to mention that people usually can't rely on escorting for being their ONLY source of employment, for their entire lives. Having a retirement fund, education, health insurance, some other work experience- that's not elitism, that's just reality. Basic things like health insurance and a retirement income are things that everyone needs. Anyone in escorting should care about them, just as anyone else who is self employed does.


It may not be healthy validation, but it beats being old and unwanted.

Sure, why do you think so many girls in our society become grumpy in their old age, or become attracted to feminism when previously they didn't care for it? The way I've heard older girls describe being old is, in our society, it's like becoming invisible. People don't take you as seriously, people are less likely to interact with you, less likely to care about you the way they used to. Throw in how girls live longer and usually end up living a decade or more alone after their husband dies (assuming he hadn't left her for a younger girl by that point anyway)- growing old sucks. It's also a fate for everyone who doesn't die along the way from something else (be it murder, suicide, aids, car accidents, or anything else life can throw at people). But some of this conversation is somewhat offtopic, I don't believe anyone on HA is old enough to be retired (??).

Yeah, growing old sucks for EVERYONE. Not just transsexuals. She acts like because she's myopic about her gender identity, she can project it on every younger TS without a hitch.

Anyway, I work a real job AND escort. But I'll be damned if any escort needs her putting a cap on their earning potential. That's sour grapes bullshit, and she knows it. And I get my suggested donation EASILY, so now I guess I'm a liar? I don't dare "go there"? Wtf? Fuck this bitch.

Look at the ad below. My phones rings PLENTY. Escorting is like being an athlete or an artist or a musician. You have to maintain or you'll fade fast. So I still don't see where she gets off acting like she's gonna school anyone.

Get off your high horse, Peggy. And stop bullshitting.

[The Judge]

So Nicole is arguin with yet another person :roll: Just GTFO ya troll and go argue with yourself somewhere as nobody gives a dead rats ass for ya Princess.

Awaiting your predictable lame ass response now :lol:

[peggygee]

this topic has been nasty since the start,you people need to chill abit.this could have been a great topic but its ruined ,,,,,unreal

Point well taken.

It is not my style to be needlessly argumentative or confrontational with
anyone, particularly another woman.

For my part in allowing this discussion to devolve into ad hominem
attacks, I apologize, on all other points, I emphatically and steadfastly
maintain my positions.







Granny, not quite, and there's no shame for me that I like women
somewhat, but prefer men.

I have had my photo up before, however for the job that I'm in now that
would be problematic. And contrary to what you might have inferred I
don't work in human services, or with trans issues, and for a variety of
reasons I needed to go back to being more stealth, particularly on a porn
forum.

But don't try and imply a fugly, old brick image of me, which is far from
accurate, cause as I said, you really don't want to go there.

The prudent course of action is to stick to the topics at hand.

Really now? Why don't I want to "go there"? You'll read me? Well please do, grandma. Bring all the bluffs you've got to the table, and we'll see where it takes you. lol

And "excuses, excuses" about your sacred anonymity. You've posted pics here before, so stop lying. I didn't call you a "fugly, old brick". Those are your words, not mine. ;) You're the one playing the tough old sexchange here. Again, "if you can't stand the heat', copy and paste something and kindly stfu. "The prudent course of action" was to not talk out of you ass in the first place, but I think it's a little too late.

But let's just say, I've seen your pics and that I think you've... 'passed your expiration date'. lol That shit about how the younger girls are bumping the older ones is a case of you "going there" first anyway. So don't get all insecure on me now. You've accidentally blurted out some shade, so get it off your chest. I'm not sweating you. ;)

Anyway, I thought you have better shit to do than "argue" with me? ;) lol

Grandma?

I'm happy and proud to have made it to this age and point in life, and it is
my prayer that others do as well.

Your personal attacks on me are devoid of merit and accuracy, as we both
know what the truth is here. At this juncture you are clutching at straws in
a juvenile attempt to bolster your argument.

I took a moment and feel that it would be better for me to take the high
ground, and not say things that can not be unnsaid.

What I will say once again is that your allegations about me hold
absolutely no water, and the "past my expiration date" crack was
laughable, as has been a number of your other statements.

Nicole at your core, you have many good qualities. I have observed
you from the day that you welcomed me to this forum, and have
observed you on other forums. But you do seem to allow anger,
bitterness, and whatever else is troubling you to overwhelm you, you
truly do not seem to have a peaceful soul, or to be at peace with yourself.

Now before you tell me to go fuck myself with my pop psycholgy analysis,
I want you to honestly ask yourself "why are you always getting into
beefs", why do you find yourself getting banned from site after site.

Now even if I admit to being the sanctomonious, self-rightous, jealous, old
cunt that you say I am, assuredly there isn't something fucked up about
everyone you get into problems with.

Finally, as I mentioned, I feel that you are wrong about many of the
allegations that you have made about me, but you are correct about one
thing, I don't have the time to continue in this futile discussion with you,
as my time is precious and finite, being the old lady that I am.

[Nicole Dupre]

...

Finally, as I mentioned, I feel that you are wrong about many of the
allegations that you have made about me, but you are correct about one
thing, I don't have the time to continue in this futile discussion with you,
as my time is precious and finite, being the old lady that I am.

Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass how old you are or what you look like. You brought up age and fading looks, not me. I don't look at women with lust (OR petty jealousy), and I have no idea where you draw such lines. I'd assume I can't relate though. I'm more about friendship and/or sex. I'm into fucking all kinds of people, but romance with chicks is just not me. Furthermore, I have no emotional investment in whether or not people here on HA like or dislike me as a human being. But this fantasy that I'm "angry" is absurd. When people easily lose their composure, I do indeed find it somewhat entertaining. 8) When someone's having an immature meltdown, I do indeed enjoy watching them melt ALL THE WAY down. So what? It's funny. 8) People shouldn't discuss controversial topics if they can't bear to see them through to their logical conclusions. That's what kids or idiots do. "It's like that cuz I said so!" is a bullshit argument. But I digress.

Here's the deal. If you want to help the cause of M2F TS, open your mouth when you should. There are plenty of people here who need correcting. If you're philosophically on the same page as Phobun, you're no friend of any TS women. Period.

If you want to paint "shemale" sex work as a dead end, where all the girls are too immature or vain to prepare for their old age, you're no friend of this forum. That's what this forum is all about: shemale sexworkers. Why would come on here and try to undermine that? I don't think it's too far fetched to say that this industry and escorting has, in fact, helped countless TS women keep their heads above water. I'd even dare say that it's probably saved some of their lives.

Get your shit together, or just go, or don't. I don't actually care how you react. But I am done talking with you. You disappoint me.

[Nicole Dupre]

So Nicole is arguin with yet another person :roll: Just GTFO ya troll and go argue with yourself somewhere as nobody gives a dead rats ass for ya Princess.

Awaiting your predictable lame ass response now :lol:

What's up with that gay "ya" shit? Are "ya" a retarded Swede?

Go fuck your GF "wendy", the gay crossdressing rock-climber, you HD reject. Thay's the only reason your cornholed ass even came here in the first place; to defend his honor. After that, tongue-kiss your BF, "Crimson Raider". Or is he too busy playing with his KISS action figures?

"Ya" big pussy.

[helmetvonzeplin]

[quote="Floyd R"]I've had duck a few times and it was always too oily for my liking. Do you have a special way of preparing duck?

[quote="peggygee"][quote="Nicole Dupre"][quote="Felicia Katt"]

Duck is a an oily or greasy dish, it is best bought in china town and heated in a pan and drained over paper towels before eating. If you cook it yourself, drain it well and is best to barbeque over a slow fire as it can easy burn, Duck is also a nice thing to roast, but keep it out of the fat, when it is crispy and dry it is best. Use a lot of seasoning as it does well with what ever salt and seasoning you like, Happy fucking, I mean ducking,

[tslvrnyc]

...

Finally, as I mentioned, I feel that you are wrong about many of the
allegations that you have made about me, but you are correct about one
thing, I don't have the time to continue in this futile discussion with you,
as my time is precious and finite, being the old lady that I am.

Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass how old you are or what you look like. You brought up age and fading looks, not me. I don't look at women with lust (OR petty jealousy), and I have no idea where you draw such lines. I'd assume I can't relate though. I'm more about friendship and/or sex. I'm into fucking all kinds of people, but romance with chicks is just not me. Furthermore, I have no emotional investment in whether or not people here on HA like or dislike me as a human being. But this fantasy that I'm "angry" is absurd. When people easily lose their composure, I do indeed find it somewhat entertaining. 8) When someone's having an immature meltdown, I do indeed enjoy watching them melt ALL THE WAY down. So what? It's funny. 8) People shouldn't discuss controversial topics if they can't bear to see them through to their logical conclusions. That's what kids or idiots do. "It's like that cuz I said so!" is a bullshit argument. But I digress.

Here's the deal. If you want to help the cause of M2F TS, open your mouth when you should. There are plenty of people here who need correcting. If you're philosophically on the same page as Phobun, you're no friend of any TS women. Period.

If you want to paint "shemale" sex work as a dead end, where all the girls are too immature or vain to prepare for their old age, you're no friend of this forum. That's what this forum is all about: shemale sexworkers. Why would come on here and try to undermine that? I don't think it's too far fetched to say that this industry and escorting has, in fact, helped countless TS women keep their heads above water. I'd even dare say that it's probably saved some of their lives.

Get your shit together, or just go, or don't. I don't actually care how you react. But I am done talking with you. You disappoint me.

I'm not one of these cockhound syccophants but honestly you're brilliant. I have no idea why you choose to make money with your body when your mind is clearly your paycheck. Maybe you have something different planned...

[helmetvonzeplin]

[quote="Nicole Dupre"][quote=peggygee]...


Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass how old you are or what you look like...

wow==TALK ABOUT CAT FIGHTS! CUM ON GIRLS, WE ARE INTO LOV'EN NOT FIGHT'EN

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm not one of these cockhound syccophants but honestly you're brilliant. I have no idea why you choose to make money with your body when your mind is clearly your paycheck. Maybe you have something different planned...

Thank you. I actually do work a day job where thinking on your feet, and often outside of the box, is required. I make my own hours, and I have no problem compartmentalizing. Therefore, making a buck as an adult entertainer is not slowing me down one bit.

[Prospero]

British radio had an interview this week with an older transexual. In fact she is a member of the British ruling classes - landed family who used to wait on the royal family. She didn't even have the op until she'd raised a family as a man. Her overall verdict - she really regretted her choice to have the operation. Very sad. She had lost touch with her two sons and their families and was generally given the cold shoulder by her erstwhile friends. Do things really change?

[helmetvonzeplin]

British radio had an interview this week with an older transexual. In fact she is a member of the British ruling classes - landed family who used to wait on the royal family. She didn't even have the op until she'd raised a family as a man. Her overall verdict - she really regretted her choice to have the operation. Very sad. She had lost touch with her two sons and their families and was generally given the cold shoulder by her erstwhile friends. Do things really change?you tend to come up will many negative stories that please the establishment, many happy stories never hit the news media because they want to paint transsexual life in a negative manner. I know many happy trans! This life is tuff on many of us, gay.staight, and in between or just crazy fucked up. Hit us on the wrong day and we look pitiful. Hit us on the right day, after a glorious fuck/fucking and we are invincible.

[brickcitybrother]

they get set upon and eaten by the younger tgirls?

Hahahahaha

[TrannyHunta]

They become T-MILFS.

[paulgutierrez]

Didnt one of the Wachowski brothers become a tranny? You can go on to direct films I guess

[alyssats]

in my country most de transition

[transmaven]

in my country most de-transition


That's one of the few truly interesting things I've read here. Tell us more, sweet Alyssa...