The Hypocrosy Of It All....

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

[jld1]

It's just plain foolish. Unfortunately, most politicians are in the game for personal gain and they don't care who they hurt, even if they are from the same group they are hurting.

[zocco]

i am glad you have spoken up about this Allanah
this goes on everywhere even in my country

[BellaBellucci]

I only have one thing to say on the matter: voters should never vote for a candidate based on a single issue unless that issue overshadows their entire campaign.

For instance, had John McCain not sold out to the religious right in desperation I would have voted for him. While that may seem like a single issue, it's not because it involves the influence of an establishment that would like to do much more than just bash trannies.

~BB~

[raybbaby]

I'm just gonna say I'm constantly surprised when I hear members on here supporting politicians and political parties that use fear of LGBTG to further their careers/party goals. It seems so strange to me that tranny chasers, or admirers or whatever you're most comfortable with, would support people who would keep them and their "objects of affection" marginalized and demagogued.

[BellaBellucci]

It seems so strange to me that tranny chasers, or admirers or whatever you're most comfortable with, would support people who would keep them and their "objects of affection" marginalized and demagogued.

Umm... Ray honey? The girls marginalize themselves and each other too - they simply don't need a politician to do it for them. Many are just complacent or satisfied enough with the status quo that they don't want to take any risks to improve the situation. For a bunch of women fighting for acceptance, their activism generally falls mighty short when their money or lifestyle is threatened.

~BB~

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I only have one thing to say on the matter: voters should never vote for a candidate based on a single issue unless that issue overshadows their entire campaign.

For instance, had John McCain not sold out to the religious right in desperation I would have voted for him. While that may seem like a single issue, it's not because it involves the influence of an establishment that would like to do much more than just bash trannies.

~BB~

I am not sure how relevant this is to this discussion because this is not about a particular political party or voting. This has to do with politicians
or people who work within parties that try to oppress the same community they are part of.

There are gay republicans out there- i.e. Log Cabin Repuplicans and there are republicans who support LGBT issues out there- and there are democrats who don't.

This is not about that.

It just so happens that the majority of these kinds of individuals who have been involved in these kind of scandals, who have fought FIERCELY against LGBT issues are mostly members of the Republican party.

The issue here is the truth. Plain and simple.

[BellaBellucci]

I only have one thing to say on the matter: voters should never vote for a candidate based on a single issue unless that issue overshadows their entire campaign.

For instance, had John McCain not sold out to the religious right in desperation I would have voted for him. While that may seem like a single issue, it's not because it involves the influence of an establishment that would like to do much more than just bash trannies.

~BB~

I am not sure how relevant this is to this discussion because this is not about a particular political party or voting. This has to do with politicians
or people who work within parties that try to oppress the same community they are part of.

There are gay republicans out there- i.e. Log Cabin Repuplicans and there are republicans who support LGBT issues out there- and there are democrats who don't.

This is not about that.

It just so happens that the majority of these kinds of individuals who have been involved in these kind of scandals, who have fought FIERCELY against LGBT issues are mostly members of the Republican party.

The issue here is the truth. Plain and simple.

Sorry I didn't address your entire point, which is extremely valid. I was responding to this statement mostly:


I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

~BB~

[phobun]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?
I'm all for gay marriage and getting rid of Bill Clinton's abominable "don't ask don't tell" policy, but I dispute that there is any such thing as a LGBT "community".

Unfortunately certain in-betweeners try to get the transgender umbrella tagging along as the unwelcome stepchild of gays and lesbians. The fact is that gays generally are less tolerant of transsexuals than the average person. Also, gender identity is not the same as sexual orientation, so why confuse the unenlightened population further by marching under the same marxist banners?

Successful transsexual women who transition and fit in have no need to be marching in the streets and screaming with the hairy bears and dykes on bikes. Rough looking shemales, and the gayboys with boobs, who sell cock and ass to closeted queers are another story, however. Perhaps they do have a natural affinity for the gay community. But like Barney Frank said today, all the protesters do with their obnoxious demonstrations is put pressure on the grass.

The first thing they should do is to try to hold politicians, like Obama, who say one thing and do another, to their promises.

[Silcc69]

LOL at Phobun.

[BellaBellucci]

corrected and deleted

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Bella-

Understood. And while I do like Mr. McCain in certain, here is his voting record on LGBT issues.

Opposed Ending Discrimination against Gay, Lesbian,
Bisexual and Transgender Americans in the Workplace.
Senator John McCain cast a deciding vote against the
federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Opposed Protecting GLBT Americans from Hate
Crimes. Senator McCain voted three times against
expanding the federal hate crimes law to include sexual
orientation.

Proponent of a Discriminatory Military Policy.
Senator McCain supports “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and does
not believe that gays should serve in the U.S. military.

Opponent of Equal Benefits for Same-Sex Couples.
Senator McCain voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which
prohibits same-sex couples from receiving over 1,100 federal
rights and benefits even if they are married in their state.

Actively Supported a State Ban on Domestic
Partnerships. Senator McCain campaigned for a ban
on same-sex relationship recognition in his home state
of Arizona and appeared in a campaign television ad on
the issue.

Supported the Confirmation of Anti-GLBT Equality
Judges. Senator McCain voted to confirm President
Bush’s judicial nominees who had taken anti-GLBT positions.
He has pointed to Justice Samuel Alito as a role
model for future Supreme Court appointments.

Supported a Discriminatory HIV/AIDS Policy. Senator
John McCain supported a Jesse Helms strategy to cut off
funding for prevention efforts aimed at the gay community
and voted to bar foreign nationals with HIV from immigrating
to the United States.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella-

Understood. And while I do like Mr. McCain in certain, here is his voting record on LGBT issues.

Opposed Ending Discrimination against Gay, Lesbian,
Bisexual and Transgender Americans in the Workplace.
Senator John McCain cast a deciding vote against the
federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Opposed Protecting GLBT Americans from Hate
Crimes. Senator McCain voted three times against
expanding the federal hate crimes law to include sexual
orientation.

Proponent of a Discriminatory Military Policy.
Senator McCain supports “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and does
not believe that gays should serve in the U.S. military.

Opponent of Equal Benefits for Same-Sex Couples.
Senator McCain voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which
prohibits same-sex couples from receiving over 1,100 federal
rights and benefits even if they are married in their state.

Actively Supported a State Ban on Domestic
Partnerships. Senator McCain campaigned for a ban
on same-sex relationship recognition in his home state
of Arizona and appeared in a campaign television ad on
the issue.

Supported the Confirmation of Anti-GLBT Equality
Judges. Senator McCain voted to confirm President
Bush’s judicial nominees who had taken anti-GLBT positions.
He has pointed to Justice Samuel Alito as a role
model for future Supreme Court appointments.

Supported a Discriminatory HIV/AIDS Policy. Senator
John McCain supported a Jesse Helms strategy to cut off
funding for prevention efforts aimed at the gay community
and voted to bar foreign nationals with HIV from immigrating
to the United States.

Right, but I'm a Libertarian and I feel that his small government stances could create a society where liberty comes before political expediency. I've already said that McCain is a sell-out so you won't get any argument from me on that.

And no I didn't vote for Obama but I never wanted him to fail either - I just wanted him to do something other than copy FDR's strategy on the economy from the Great Depression. That's not change. The system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up - no Fed, no IRS, no more enormous, intrusive government. Ron Paul is my President.

~BB~

[stillies77]

I still dont get why so many people are extremists when it comes to Gay Marriage...why do so many people have a problem with it?

[Nicole Dupre]

It seems so strange to me that tranny chasers, or admirers or whatever you're most comfortable with, would support people who would keep them and their "objects of affection" marginalized and demagogued.

Umm... Ray honey? The girls marginalize themselves and each other too - they simply don't need a politician to do it for them. Many are just complacent or satisfied enough with the status quo that they don't want to take any risks to improve the situation. For a bunch of women fighting for acceptance, their activism generally falls mighty short when their money or lifestyle is threatened.

~BB~

But, Bella, no girl sets out wanting to marginalize themselves. It may be a good way to keep your above water as opposed to getting it chopped off. Maybe some go more quietly than others. Some may even go gladly. But most sex workers, including TS, are far less superficial than the image they capitalize on. People pick and choose their battles. The road to martyrdom is strewn with exceptional people who may have done better to sit it out and fight another day, if ever. Stonewall and the Compton Cafeteria Riots was US, the M2F's of that era; not the twinks or Log-Jammin' Repubs of today who have gained the most. Yet most of them ignorantly claim those events as their own. Make of that what you will.

[phobun]

wrong thread

[Ben]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

I'm a big supporter of Ralph Nader.
He would be beneficial to the vast majority of the population. Only problem: he doesn't have a party behind him. So, well, if he did become President he couldn't do anything.
Anyhoo, his latest book Only The Super-Rich Can Save Us is worth reading. :D :D

[Felicia Katt]

Allanah, I saw the documentary, and its an amazing expose of the utter self hating hypocrisy that seems to permeate the right. That someone like Charlie Crist can beard up with some disposable woman before each election and then confirm his "straightness" by selling out on same sex marriage and adoption is just incredible. That he is a leading contender for the Republican nomination in 2012 is also astounding. I really worry what damages someone one like him would do on a national basis just to prove he is a good old boy and not a gay one.

FK

[raybbaby]

Off topic, but I now can't stop thinking about licking miss Dupre's ass. I don't even care if it socially or politically marginalizes me. That's the kinda lust I have for ya. Mmmmmmmmm...

[BellaBellucci]

It seems so strange to me that tranny chasers, or admirers or whatever you're most comfortable with, would support people who would keep them and their "objects of affection" marginalized and demagogued.

Umm... Ray honey? The girls marginalize themselves and each other too - they simply don't need a politician to do it for them. Many are just complacent or satisfied enough with the status quo that they don't want to take any risks to improve the situation. For a bunch of women fighting for acceptance, their activism generally falls mighty short when their money or lifestyle is threatened.

~BB~

But, Bella, no girl sets out wanting to marginalize themselves. It may be a good way to keep your above water as opposed to getting it chopped off. Maybe some go more quietly than others. Some may even go gladly. But most sex workers, including TS, are far less superficial than the image they capitalize on. People pick and choose their battles. The road to martyrdom is strewn with exceptional people who may have done better to sit it out and fight another day, if ever. Stonewall and the Compton Cafeteria Riots was US, the M2F's of that era; not the twinks or Log-Jammin' Repubs of today who have gained the most. Yet most of them ignorantly claim those events as their own. Make of that what you will.

I've been in the adult business since I was 17. Trust me, the 'superficial image' many girls have or want is very real. It consumes girls. They get stuck in an expensive lifestyle of partying and plastic surgery and then become shallow wanna-be celebrities and far too often marginalize themselves to maintain that lifestyle, not for the capital to buy stocks or real estate or to otherwise finance their lives beyond their adult jobs. It's not an act. It's what many girls become and it's sad.

On the other hand, the martyrs don't always survive to fight another day because they were forced to fight alone by the cowardice of others. It's time for the girls who complain about the way transwomen are treated to do something about it instead of oh, I don't know... going on Maury to be paraded onto a stage in front of a national audience so that people can guess their 'gender,' when it should be obvious that what they're really guessing is their birth sex and that it has no bearing on who they are now.

As long as we continue to behave like we need to prove that we're women (even as some of us let people call us men), we won't be seen that way. THAT is marginalization.

~BB~

[Belial]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

I'm not opposed to gay rights, but it's low on my list of priorities. I'm not a one issue voter, and its arrogant to think that I should put ur best interests ahead of my own.


An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

Posting on a tranny forum is not always indicative of belonging to a "community".
What are ur thoughts on this? http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-defense-of-marriage-act-that-candidate-obama-opposed.html

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

I'm not opposed to gay rights, but it's low on my list of priorities. I'm not a one issue voter, and its arrogant to think that I should put ur best interests ahead of my own.


An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

Posting on a tranny forum is not always indicative of belonging to a "community".
What are ur thoughts on this? http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-defense-of-marriage-act-that-candidate-obama-opposed.html

First of all, we should all be working and supporting not just gay rights but equal rights for everyone. It is NOT arrogant to demand equal protection and rights under the law for me and for everyone.

I would define it arrogant as someone who already enjoys equal protection under the law for gender and sexual orientation to put MY rights and the rights of those who are denied them as less important to yours. That IS arrogance because you telling me that MY rights are unimportant to you.

I support gay rights because I know what it is like to be taunted, bullied, and discriminated upon for people assuming I was gay growing up. I have been the victim of a hate crime when I was 18 and was attacked on the street by a bunch of punks who beat me up because I was in drag. Just because I am a transsexual does not make life any easier. I am lucky to live in a city that has a great human rights ordinace but that is not enough, every transsexual citezen of thos country deserves the same rights no matter where they live. As does anyone ELSE.

As far as your community statement, I am not sure what point you were trying to make?

The point I was trying to make was that of politicians and people who work agaisnt LGBT rights but are in the lifestyle.

And yes being part of a community does take a lot more than posting on a tranny forum. I should know as I have been a transssexual for 16 years and have been part of the trans community every since. My life and involvement in the community goes way beyond HA. I am not living in stealth, I live my life openly as a ts woman, working within the trans community and the rest of thw world.

And YES Mr. Obama does need to do ALL he promised for LGBT rights.
No question about that.

[Nicole Dupre]

It seems so strange to me that tranny chasers, or admirers or whatever you're most comfortable with, would support people who would keep them and their "objects of affection" marginalized and demagogued.

Umm... Ray honey? The girls marginalize themselves and each other too - they simply don't need a politician to do it for them. Many are just complacent or satisfied enough with the status quo that they don't want to take any risks to improve the situation. For a bunch of women fighting for acceptance, their activism generally falls mighty short when their money or lifestyle is threatened.

~BB~

But, Bella, no girl sets out wanting to marginalize themselves. It may be a good way to keep your above water as opposed to getting it chopped off. Maybe some go more quietly than others. Some may even go gladly. But most sex workers, including TS, are far less superficial than the image they capitalize on. People pick and choose their battles. The road to martyrdom is strewn with exceptional people who may have done better to sit it out and fight another day, if ever. Stonewall and the Compton Cafeteria Riots was US, the M2F's of that era; not the twinks or Log-Jammin' Repubs of today who have gained the most. Yet most of them ignorantly claim those events as their own. Make of that what you will.

I've been in the adult business since I was 17. Trust me, the 'superficial image' many girls have or want is very real. It consumes girls. They get stuck in an expensive lifestyle of partying and plastic surgery and then become shallow wanna-be celebrities and far too often marginalize themselves to maintain that lifestyle, not for the capital to buy stocks or real estate or to otherwise finance their lives beyond their adult jobs. It's not an act. It's what many girls become and it's sad.

On the other hand, the martyrs don't always survive to fight another day because they were forced to fight alone by the cowardice of others. It's time for the girls who complain about the way transwomen are treated to do something about it instead of oh, I don't know... going on Maury to be paraded onto a stage in front of a national audience so that people can guess their 'gender,' when it should be obvious that what they're really guessing is their birth sex and that it has no bearing on who they are now.

As long as we continue to behave like we need to prove that we're women (even as some of us let people call us men), we won't be seen that way. THAT is marginalization.

~BB~

I'm not denying that becoming vapid, complacent, and self-destructive isn't a common occurrence for adult workers. I started street walking in Manhattan at 16 on the corner of Jane St and the West Side Highway, and squatted in an unclaimed basement on the lower East Side every night. Between then and now, I've seen all kinds of fragile egos crash and burn. That wasn't my point.

Gay porn, gay hustlers, AIDS hysteria, Jeffery Dahmer, etc haven't prevented gay male culture from becoming vanilla. People are far more desensitized to gay men now. But people still kill fags for sport, and you can't blame it on Richard Simmons making a jackass of himself on television. I'm not disagreeing with your logic though. I'm disagreeing with you making more out of it than there really is. There is no code of behavior you can break to say you're asking to be discriminated against. Radical feminists blame rape on Playboy Magazine. In theory, it's plausible. But it's not likely. I mean, c'mon. You've been letting everyone know for months that you have a photoset on SHEMALE Yum. If some guy bashes my brains in because I gave him a boner, but he was horrified to later learn that we had the same plumbing, I wouldn't dream of saying it's TS sex workers like Bella Bellucci who slanted the world's view against girls like me, and put me in a position where my life was in jeopardy. If girls who do Maury are to blame, so are you and I. If you actually think I'm too thick to see your logic, guess again. But logic and 25 cents won't buy us our estro. The reason I sucked dick in passing cars on the West Side Hwy was not Maury's fault. It wasn't Sulka's fault. It wasn't Karen Dior's fault. It wasn't Kim Christy's fault. It wasn't Divine's fault. If I had to blame anyone, I'll blame people like my parents for assuming that GID was a form of mental illness and wanting to "cure" it. I'll blame the Vatican for handing them a simplistic set of rules on "right" and "wrong". I'll blame the cops who's cocks I sucked, but who I later saw beat down the queers on the West Side docks for fun. But not us, sweetheart. Being born with a cock and insisting that you will not live your life as a male is a thought crime that we're ALL supposedly guilty of. I hate liars, but no one's lying here. It's supply and demand. Blame the men who's asses we fuck behind their wives' backs for keeping us their dirty little secrets. Because if you don't fuck him, some other industrious putanna will. Or, fuck, even blame dipshits like Phobun who want to sort us into two categories for his own homophobic convenience; true and untrue. And I mean "homophobic in the sense of "the fear of being gay", which is the original definition. Phobun is shitting bricks he's a Nancy boy if he digs a chick with a dick, yet he's here, on a forum called HUNGAngels, every fucking day. HE's the problem, and every faggot like him.

Now you know I respect you, your intelligence, your point of view, and your logic. But please don't divide your F/T M2F sisters up over this stuff. It won't help anyone in the end.

xoxo

me

[AllanahStarrNYC]

If this is about so many of us being against Obama then let me just tell you that I wanted Hillary in the White House. Fuck Obama.

Where exactly in my post did I mention the President?

This is about in the closet politicians who work agaisnt LGBT rights.

This is about in the closet politicians who work agaisnt LGBT rights.

This is about in the closet politicians who work agaisnt LGBT rights.

Maybe saying it three times will make people get the point.

[Silcc69]

Whatever became of Dick Cheney and his lesbian daughter?

[Nicole Dupre]

OMFG. Seriously, can all of you smug Obama bashers go get it on in a circle jerk somewhere? She's not talking about Obama, Cheney, Cheney's daughter, Rock Hudson, Abe Lincoln, or the purple Teletubby

Let's back this up, and try using the young boy-molesting priests who denounce homosexuality and pedophilia yet climb up the stairway to heaven. Get the picture yet? If so, apply it to politicians. I'll pick one for you.

Jim McGreevey married a straight woman and secretly sucked dick in NJ interstate rest areas, all because he knew damn well that his political ambitions would never be realized if people know he was gay. Catching on? Good.

Now tawk amongst yahselves... lol

[peggygee]

I caught Outrage on HBO the other evening and I too was struck by the
hypocrisy of the mostly Republican closeted politicians, and find their
behavior reprehensible as well as a violation of the public trust.

As it was going on I was also mindful of the National Equality March which
had primarily a GLB agenda, and that was going on during this same week
in Washington.

I feel that gays should have the same rights and protections as eveyone
else in America, yet I question if the fight for transrights is in accordance
with their's, even though admittedlly some rights benifits for them, may
profit us as well.

However, I recall the backstabbing and renegings by the HRC, Barney
Frank, and gays in general, which cause me to state that the enemy of
my enemy, is not always my friend.

[BellaBellucci]

OMFG. Seriously, can all of you smug Obama bashers go get it on in a circle jerk somewhere? She's not talking about Obama, Cheney, Cheney's daughter, Rock Hudson, Abe Lincoln, or the purple Teletubby

Let's back this up, and try using the young boy-molesting priests who denounce homosexuality and pedophilia yet climb up the stairway to heaven. Get the picture yet? If so, apply it to politicians. I'll pick one for you.

Jim McGreevey married a straight woman and secretly sucked dick in NJ interstate rest areas, all because he knew damn well that his political ambitions would never be realized if people know he was gay. Catching on? Good.

Now tawk amongst yahselves... lol

'Tawk,' huh? Don't go getting all New York on me too quickly now. ;)

~BB~

[arnie666]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

I agree , we should all speak with one voice. Ein Volk Ein Reich.

No secret that the Nazi party had many socialist leanings. Perhaps you should just kick everyone off the board who you disagree with?

Surely it's good to have people with all sorts of beliefs and opinions within a community but what do I know. And whats wrong with being Gay, or a woman or being Black and being right wing? And it's also a matter of debate if certain parties are any more or less homophobic than others.Perhaps some just pay lip service to being pro Gay to get the queer vote?

Such a shame Allanah that you are acting in the same intolerant way as the bigots you hate so.

[sucka4chix]

I said this on another forum: outing politicians who perform sexual acts that they denounce tends to point out an extreme evil of said acts. The fact that someone is willing to basically out himself or pass legislation that is counter to his own behavior seems to show great disdain for the behavior. If someone is willing to denounce something that they like, either they know (and care) that society doesn't approve of the behavior or they themselves don't actually approve of it. Therefore I don't see documentaries such as this as productive at all to the supposed "community".

While it's surely hypocritical and hilarious to watch people lie and squirm, it should be noted that lots of people do lots of things to bring themselves pleasure that they don't necessarily condone or think is good for society as a whole. You can be the biggest pothead on the planet and still not want pot legalized. You can fuck prostitutes every week yet still be against prostitution. Stiff dicks typically work independent of your set of morals.

It also should be noted that many TS admirers identify as straight and live in the straight world. As such they have very few dealings with the Gay world/community and probably like it like that. They hate when vid stores put TS titles in the gay section and they are not comfortable going to Gay clubs/ events. As such they don't make the best supporters of LGBT rights. Just because someone has an attraction for someone, or a group of someones, that doesn't make him a supporter and neither does perusing HA.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

I agree , we should all speak with one voice. Ein Volk Ein Reich.

No secret that the Nazi party had many socialist leanings. Perhaps you should just kick everyone off the board who you disagree with?

Surely it's good to have people with all sorts of beliefs and opinions within a community but what do I know. And whats wrong with being Gay, or a woman or being Black and being right wing? And it's also a matter of debate if certain parties are any more or less homophobic than others.Perhaps some just pay lip service to being pro Gay to get the queer vote?

Such a shame Allanah that you are acting in the same intolerant way as the bigots you hate so.

Another person who entirely missed the point. Where in the HELL DOES the NAZI party come into play with all of this? If I recall correctly the NAZIS murdered plenty of homosexuals.

So equal protection and rights for every individual equals socialism?

I did not say there was anything WRONG with being right wing. In fact if you would have read all of my posts, I spoke of the Log Cabin Republicans and conservative democrats.

This is again HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM SPEAKING OF OR THE HBO Docu. I am not talking about a political party, the president NO ONE BUT THOSE WHO ARE SUCKING DICK, PICKING UP MEN IN BATHROOMS, GETTING FUCKED BY A MAN, FUCKING A MAN, WHATEVER (GETTING FISTED) and are WORKING AGAISNT AND VOTING AGASINT LGBT RIGHTS.

That would be like ME being a politician and voting agaisnt TS rights.

Please don't twist my words into some nonsense for the sake of just being annoying.

Nicole said it perfectly.

[Felicia Katt]

I agree , we should all speak with one voice. Ein Volk Ein Reich.

No secret that the Nazi party had many socialist leanings. Perhaps you should just kick everyone off the board who you disagree with?

Surely it's good to have people with all sorts of beliefs and opinions within a community but what do I know. And whats wrong with being Gay, or a woman or being Black and being right wing? And it's also a matter of debate if certain parties are any more or less homophobic than others.Perhaps some just pay lip service to being pro Gay to get the queer vote?

Such a shame Allanah that you are acting in the same intolerant way as the bigots you hate so.
The only lip service the Republican's pay is in bathroom stalls in airports. LOL

Its not even remotely open to debate about which party is more progressive and inclusive about GBLT issues.

From the Republican Party Platform


We consider discrimination based on sex, race, age, religion, creed, disability, or national origin to be immoral, and we will strongly enforce anti-discrimination statutes. We ask all to join us in rejecting the forces of hatred and bigotry and in denouncing all who practice or promote racism, anti-Semitism, ethnic prejudice, or religious intolerance.

Notice what they have left off, entirely. sexual orientation and gender identity

This is also from their platform


Because our children’s future is best preserved within the traditional understanding of marriage, we call for a constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage as a union of a man and a woman, so that judges cannot make other arrangements equivalent to it. In the absence of a national amendment, we support the right of the people of the various states to affirm traditional marriage through state initiatives.

They want to make the prohibition of gay marriage part of the same venerable document that gives us due process and free speech.

Here is what is in the Democratic Party Platform


Democrats will fight to end discrimination based on race,
sex, ethnicity, national origin, language, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, age, and disability in every corner of our country, because that’s the America we believe in.

Notice what they explicitly included.

Here is another quote from the platform


We support the full inclusion of all families, including same-sex couples, in the life of our nation, and support equal responsibility, benefits, and protections. We will enact a comprehensive bipartisan employment non-discrimination act. We oppose the Defense of Marriage Act and all
attempts to use this issue to divide us.

If you choose to turn a blind eye, or hold your nose when you vote Republican, that's your right. But don't pretend we don't see how their policies and priorities really are, or how much they truly stink.

FK

[jimbobw2]

So BO is not all that?

[arnie666]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

I agree , we should all speak with one voice. Ein Volk Ein Reich.

No secret that the Nazi party had many socialist leanings. Perhaps you should just kick everyone off the board who you disagree with?

Surely it's good to have people with all sorts of beliefs and opinions within a community but what do I know. And whats wrong with being Gay, or a woman or being Black and being right wing? And it's also a matter of debate if certain parties are any more or less homophobic than others.Perhaps some just pay lip service to being pro Gay to get the queer vote?

Such a shame Allanah that you are acting in the same intolerant way as the bigots you hate so.

Another person who entirely missed the point. Where in the HELL DOES the NAZI party come into play with all of this? If I recall correctly the NAZIS murdered plenty of homosexuals.

So equal protection and rights for every individual equals socialism?

I did not say there was anything WRONG with being right wing. In fact if you would have read all of my posts, I spoke of the Log Cabin Republicans and conservative democrats.

This is again HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM SPEAKING OF OR THE HBO Docu. I am not talking about a political party, the president NO ONE BUT THOSE WHO ARE SUCKING DICK, PICKING UP MEN IN BATHROOMS, GETTING FUCKED BY A MAN, FUCKING A MAN, WHATEVER (GETTING FISTED) and are WORKING AGAISNT AND VOTING AGASINT LGBT RIGHTS.

That would be like ME being a politician and voting agaisnt TS rights.

Please don't twist my words into some nonsense for the sake of just being annoying.

Nicole said it perfectly.

Read your first post again please. You were not just talking about individual hypocrits but slating entire political parties, the men who vote for them, when said parties who happen to have some undesirables within them. Give me an example of a political party or political movement that doesn't? But of course if they suit your partisan beliefs you will either deny their existance or make light of it. Iam not picking on you only for that, many people do it on the left and right.

Give me an example of which members you are talking about and which parties they support which you feel damage this community. The relevance to the nazis is thus, the nazis were intolerant (to put it mildly) of other particular political beliefs. They believed in one voice ,one people ,one country. You post reminded me of that. I see that often with those who are left wing or have socialist beliefs. They make a big play of being 'tolerant' of minority groups but somehow cannot be tolerant of people who disagree with them. Even with those minority groups, if a member dares to criticise their party , they are called names such as uncle tom by some of these so called activists.... I often feel they use these minority groups as some kind of political football.

[Nicole Dupre]

Thanks, mama.

_____________________________________________

I might add, McGreevey never voted against gay rights that I'm aware of, but he never claimed to be "family" until the shit was going to hit the fan for him from a multitude directions. Outing himself was essentially a great way to appease the Dem party by helping them keep a senate seat, avoid extortion & blackmail, and avoid being charged with misusing the power of his office.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I have been outspoken about this before on this board. Men on this board who support political parties and political candidates that damage the LGBT community and try to deny LGBT people rights.

Of course this is a much broader problem that extends way beyond the ts world.

Everyone on here should see Outrage
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/index.html

An excellent HBO documentary that dissects politicians who have voted against LGBT rights, AIDS funding, and several other issues- YET have been caught in gay sex scandals or are completely in the closet.

I don't have a problem with being in the closet, because that it a personal issue. I DO have a BIG problem with working against, damaging, and trying to silence and oppress the very same community you are a part of.

Thoughts?

I agree , we should all speak with one voice. Ein Volk Ein Reich.

No secret that the Nazi party had many socialist leanings. Perhaps you should just kick everyone off the board who you disagree with?

Surely it's good to have people with all sorts of beliefs and opinions within a community but what do I know. And whats wrong with being Gay, or a woman or being Black and being right wing? And it's also a matter of debate if certain parties are any more or less homophobic than others.Perhaps some just pay lip service to being pro Gay to get the queer vote?

Such a shame Allanah that you are acting in the same intolerant way as the bigots you hate so.

Another person who entirely missed the point. Where in the HELL DOES the NAZI party come into play with all of this? If I recall correctly the NAZIS murdered plenty of homosexuals.

So equal protection and rights for every individual equals socialism?

I did not say there was anything WRONG with being right wing. In fact if you would have read all of my posts, I spoke of the Log Cabin Republicans and conservative democrats.

This is again HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM SPEAKING OF OR THE HBO Docu. I am not talking about a political party, the president NO ONE BUT THOSE WHO ARE SUCKING DICK, PICKING UP MEN IN BATHROOMS, GETTING FUCKED BY A MAN, FUCKING A MAN, WHATEVER (GETTING FISTED) and are WORKING AGAISNT AND VOTING AGASINT LGBT RIGHTS.

That would be like ME being a politician and voting agaisnt TS rights.

Please don't twist my words into some nonsense for the sake of just being annoying.

Nicole said it perfectly.

Read your first post again please. You were not just talking about individual hypocrits but slating entire political parties, the men who vote for them, when said parties who happen to have some undesirables within them. Give me an example of a political party or political movement that doesn't? But of course if they suit your partisan beliefs you will either deny their existance or make light of it. Iam not picking on you only for that, many people do it on the left and right.

Give me an example of which members you are talking about and which parties they support which you feel damage this community. The relevance to the nazis is thus, the nazis were intolerant (to put it mildly) of other particular political beliefs. They believed in one voice ,one people ,one country. You post reminded me of that. I see that often with those who are left wing or have socialist beliefs. They make a big play of being 'tolerant' of minority groups but somehow cannot be tolerant of people who disagree with them. Even with those minority groups, if a member dares to criticise their party , they are called names such as uncle tom by some of these so called activists.... I often feel they use these minority groups as some kind of political football.

Where you high when you read what I posted?

Because that is just to wild to believe that anyone would even think I would suggest such an insanity.

To insinuate that I believe in one voice, one political party is CRAZY. WHAT I don't support is any PARTY, PERSON that preaches discrimination towards anyone. Do they have a right to exist- you bet they do. Do I think that white supremicist or black supremicist have the right to their views or Rev. Phelps has the right to talk the crap he does- YES, it is protected speech as HORRID & VILE & HIDEOUS as it is. Will I fight it and speak agaisnt it every step of the way- YOU BET CHA. Just as those people deserve their free speech by the 1st Amendment, we all deserve what the 14th Amendment gives US citezens, equal protection under the law.

WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY, READ FELICIAS POST
THEN GET BACK TO ME.

[Magic8Ball]

Whether you like it or not, if you split people into two groups (Republicans and Democrats) there's going to be an awful lot of people who end up in a camp that only fits them on a few topics. I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and borderline isolationist (at times) when it comes to foreign policy. So which party would I be in? Correct answer is I claim none.

Most politicians disappoint at eventually (My current president hasn't brought the transparency I thought he'd promised, and the last one allowed massive deficits despite his fiscal promises). Politically speaking, the "moral indiscretions" garner the most attention. I make no excuse for hypocrisy, I've just come to accept the notion that a lot of people do things they don't personally agree with for all sorts of reasons. I kiss my client's asses, even though I'd really prefer to call them assholes... but I do it because I'd like to keep their business. At least with politicians I can vote them out for when they lie about something.

I think we've made some good progress accepting alternative life styles over the last couple of decades. But that progress certainly hasn't kept pace among our elected leaders. Keep in mind that the first openly gay member of congress was only elected ten years ago, and it's only last year that the second openly gay member of congress was elected (others had been elected then come out later, some of whom only came out after congressional inquiries). Acceptance replaces hypocrisy, but we're still a ways away from that.

[Belial]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

[Nicole Dupre]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

:shock: Wow. You're seriously uct fup.

I guess we have to assume that you're either illiterate, or you want a fight. But, for the millionth time, OBAMA WAS NOT OUTED FOR BEING GAY. SO BASH HIM SOME OTHER TIME AND PLACE. THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT GAY POLITICIANS BETRAYING THEIR PEERS. GET ROSETTA STONED, AND LEARN TO READ ENGLISH.

As for the gays you know living more "luxurious and better lives" than most heteros; maybe you need to get out more and meet people. Because that's the most half-ass blanket statement I've heard in ages.

As for gay vs straight marriage; who gives a shit whether YOU're destined to marry. That's not the issue here. The issue is "what's good for the goose should be what's good for the gander".

Anyway, you sound lonely and angry, and like you're the farthest thing from marriage material. Trust me. We believe you, and it's ok. There are some lovely fellas just like you, right here on this forum. So keep your chin up. Your prince may still come. ;) :lol:

[Rogers]

LOL @ what Nicole said about Phobun. :lol: It really is simple. Right-wingers have a tendency to be more fearful about things in general. Different races, sexualities, and religions. Saddam and now Ahmadinajad nuking us all in "45 minutes" too. It's also the reason why they are much more likely to be religious, closeted, and self-hating. It really didn't surprise me to find out that Phobun is right-wing too. "Marxist banner". :wink:

We know how the human brain works mainly from when it goes wrong. Gender dysphoria is one example, but the classic example is that of the story of Phinaeus Gage. It is much more difficult to know how our brains influence our general outlook on life and political leanings. However, there is something called the "Triune brain".

The Triune Brain
http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.html

Cheney Speaks to the Reptile Brain
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0817-13.htm

Bush admin pressured ex-Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge to raise terror warnings pre-election
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/08/20/2009-08-20_bush_admin_pressured_former_homeland_security_c hief_tom_ridge_to_raise_terror_wa.html

Thom Hartmann is a psychotherapist by training. The psychologist who monitored the Nazi elite when they were being tried at Nuremberg found them all to be lacking in empathy towards their fellow man. Lack of empathy is one of the key characteristics of a sociopath.

“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”
- Captain G. M. Gilbert.

Cheney, Nuremberg and aggressive war: the day the smirking stopped
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/18/727464/-Cheney,-Nuremberg-and-aggressive-war:-the-day-the-smirking-stopped

[Nicole Dupre]

So BO is not all that?

No. Have respect for your fellow human beings, and use an antiperspirant/deodorant. It's the decent thing to do. ;)

[sucka4chix]

Read your first post again please. You were not just talking about individual hypocrits but slating entire political parties, the men who vote for them, when said parties who happen to have some undesirables within them. Give me an example of a political party or political movement that doesn't? But of course if they suit your partisan beliefs you will either deny their existance or make light of it. Iam not picking on you only for that, many people do it on the left and right.

Give me an example of which members you are talking about and which parties they support which you feel damage this community. The relevance to the nazis is thus, the nazis were intolerant (to put it mildly) of other particular political beliefs. They believed in one voice ,one people ,one country. You post reminded me of that. I see that often with those who are left wing or have socialist beliefs. They make a big play of being 'tolerant' of minority groups but somehow cannot be tolerant of people who disagree with them. Even with those minority groups, if a member dares to criticise their party , they are called names such as uncle tom by some of these so called activists.... I often feel they use these minority groups as some kind of political football.

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

This is some of the most absurd posting I've ever read. Either you 2 need to go back to middle school and take some reading and COMPREHENSION classes, or you're just trying to spread your own propoganda. Probably the latter, but I'll deal with the former. This thread has nothing to do with partisan politics, parties with undesirables and dissecting politicians that hurt the gay community. It's about the hypocrisy she sees in taking part in an activity yet being staunchly against that activity in your public life. The only way your ign'ant Nazi metaphor works is if Nazi's were putting Nazi's in concentration camps. It is obvious that Allanah feels that men on this board are being hypocritical if they support people who are not supportive of LBGT issues. Her stance is very common and understandable, even if ideal and simplistic. The reason men like transsexuals are many but rarely is it political. And although you can't have LBGT without the T, tranny chasers and some trannies themselves don't consider themselves part of any alternative life style movement. It's kinda a catch 22: it's hard to consider someone a woman when they have to fight for the same rights as a gay man. It's a very complicated situation, IMO far more so for transsexuals.

[Nicole Dupre]

And might I add...

Since this thread is about dissecting(?) politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

"U all"?!? You're on a pre-op tranny forum! As far as the KKK, the Vatican, and Jerry Falwell are all concerned; you may as well be Boy George. Do you think your anonymity would impress the "Kill a Queer for Christ" crew? Get a grip.

[scroller]

I certainly share and sympathize in being upset and offended by gay/trans-lovers actively oppressing others like themselves in public forums. In my experience, the combination of outright cruelty-paranoia-irrationality-illiteracy is firmly on the Republican side of the U.S. political fence. It's disturbing and it's always been hard to understand.

For what it's worth, I just made a donation this morning to the "Protect Maine Equality" organization (fighting the proposition to overturn Maine's gay marriage law on Nov-3). Probably that's the best way to "get back" at the right-wing Internet loonies; they're too tight-fisted with their money to make a counteracting donation.

http://www.protectmaineequality.org/

[AllanahStarrNYC]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

:shock: Wow. You're seriously uct fup.

I guess we have to assume that you're either illiterate, or you want a fight. But, for the millionth time, OBAMA WAS NOT OUTED FOR BEING GAY. SO BASH HIM SOME OTHER TIME AND PLACE. THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT GAY POLITICIANS BETRAYING THEIR PEERS. GET ROSETTA STONED, AND LEARN TO READ ENGLISH.

As for the gays you know living more "luxurious and better lives" than most heteros; maybe you need to get out more and meet people. Because that's the most half-ass blanket statement I've heard in ages.

As for gay vs straight marriage; who gives a shit whether YOU're destined to marry. That's not the issue here. The issue is "what's good for the goose should be what's good for the gander".

Anyway, you sound lonely and angry, and like you're the farthest thing from marriage material. Trust me. We believe you, and it's ok. There are some lovely fellas just like you, right here on this forum. So keep your chin up. Your prince may still come. ;) :lol:

LMAO that was a KIKIKIKIKI!!!!!!!!!

I jut don't get how difficult it is to understand what I am speaking of!!!!

And LGBT people have equal rights?

Hmm what about:

workplace equality. parenting rights. healthcare funding. relationship recognition. safety from bias-motivated violence?

[AllanahStarrNYC]

And might I add...

Since this thread is about dissecting(?) politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.

"U all"?!? You're on a pre-op tranny forum! As far as the KKK, the Vatican, and Jerry Falwell are all concerned; you may as well be Boy George. Do you think your anonymity would impress the "Kill a Queer for Christ" crew? Get a grip.

Yeah, believe it or not, " U ALL"- notice the exclusion. Point well proven again.

[angie]

"The only way to look at a politician is down."

A politician's main purpose in life is to be re-elected. Everything else is secondary, including principles.

Look, if Obama really wanted to end 'don't ask, don't tell', he could issue an exewcutive order this very minute. Instead, he's waiting for a bill from Congress that will likely never arrive.

Give the man credit, he is an excellent politician.

[Felicia Katt]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.
Do you know any gays besides the ones you see on Will and Grace, and Frazer reruns? We do not have anything close to equal rights even before you get to marriage.

Only 12 states have policies that protect against both sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in employment: An additional nine states protect sexual orientation only. That means in 29 states, there is no protection in law at all.

Despite years of trying to get one passed, there is still no federal statute addressing employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in the federal government. Under Bill Clinton, the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, prohibiting federal government workplace discrimination "on the basis of conduct not related to job performance" was interpreted as meaning sexual orientation. He also issued an executive order to more strongly cover the executive branch, over which the President has more control. In 2009 Barack Obama did the same for gender identity. This is laudable, but well short of the full protection truly equal rights would provide.

Only 24 states and the District of Columbia include sexual orientation in their hate crimes legislation.

In the U.S., 75% of students have no state laws to protect them from harassment and discrimination in school based on their sexual orientation.

Homosexuals are not allowed to serve in the military unless they are willing to stay closeted.

Now lets talk about marriage. Getting married is more than just throwing rice and getting a piece of paper. There are 1,138 benefits and responsibilities you only get when you are married. A few of those benefits are unpaid leave to care for an ill spouse, social security survivor benefits and spousal benefits, and the right not to testify against one’s spouse, among others. The Federal Defense of Marriage Act prevents FEMA from providing any relief in the form of family benefits to same-sex couples. After 9-11 the partners of LGBT victims were not allowed to get September 11th victims was given any form of federal relief funds

Obama didn't throw anyone under the bus. He just hasn't done enough, quickly enough to get us completely out from under it. The Human Rights Council, a leading gay rights advocacy group said Obama "made it crystal clear that he is our strongest ally in this fight, that he understands and, in fact, encourages our activism and our voice even when we're impatient with the pace of change."

You may not want to get married, but you have the choice. Until everyone does, there is no equality.

FK

[Stoked]

Yes! Yes! The hypocrisy of it all. A president who supports gay rights but not gay marriage...

So glad you can see it now and react appropriately.

[freak]

So quite a few of you will vote for a person just because they support the GLBT community or vote against the ones that don't. That is foolish.
Say that you agree with everything they are for but the GLBT community and the other person you totally disagree with there stand on war, heath care, education tax, but they support the GLBT community they get your vote? If that is so you need to turn in your voters registration card because you are clueless.
This is how we are in the mess we are in today, for the last 60 years people have been voting that way, as we can see it isn't the best way.

[dabaldone]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.
Do you know any gays besides the ones you see on Will and Grace, and Frazer reruns? We do not have anything close to equal rights even before you get to marriage.

Only 12 states have policies that protect against both sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in employment: An additional nine states protect sexual orientation only. That means in 29 states, there is no protection in law at all.

Despite years of trying to get one passed, there is still no federal statute addressing employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in the federal government. Under Bill Clinton, the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, prohibiting federal government workplace discrimination "on the basis of conduct not related to job performance" was interpreted as meaning sexual orientation. He also issued an executive order to more strongly cover the executive branch, over which the President has more control. In 2009 Barack Obama did the same for gender identity. This is laudable, but well short of the full protection truly equal rights would provide.

Only 24 states and the District of Columbia include sexual orientation in their hate crimes legislation.

In the U.S., 75% of students have no state laws to protect them from harassment and discrimination in school based on their sexual orientation.

Homosexuals are not allowed to serve in the military unless they are willing to stay closeted.

Now lets talk about marriage. Getting married is more than just throwing rice and getting a piece of paper. There are 1,138 benefits and responsibilities you only get when you are married. A few of those benefits are unpaid leave to care for an ill spouse, social security survivor benefits and spousal benefits, and the right not to testify against one’s spouse, among others. The Federal Defense of Marriage Act prevents FEMA from providing any relief in the form of family benefits to same-sex couples. After 9-11 the partners of LGBT victims were not allowed to get September 11th victims was given any form of federal relief funds

Obama didn't throw anyone under the bus. He just hasn't done enough, quickly enough to get us completely out from under it. The Human Rights Council, a leading gay rights advocacy group said Obama "made it crystal clear that he is our strongest ally in this fight, that he understands and, in fact, encourages our activism and our voice even when we're impatient with the pace of change."

You may not want to get married, but you have the choice. Until everyone does, there is no equality.

FK

Great post! It's horrible that people died during the 9-11 attacks. But, to deny their partners compensation is just as bad. The fact that these closeted politicians have the nerve to vote against legislation that will end discrimination or hate crime laws is absurd and they should be outed.

In my state, there have been at least 5 murders in the last 8 years of trans-women. They just happened to be sex-workers. There have been no arrests so, there are 5 murderers walking the streets. The police are simply not investigating these murders. How is that justice or equal protection? I guess it's okay that there are killers among us.

[trish]

I just never met anyone who supported the GBLT and with whom I was in total disagreement with on the issues of war, health care, education and taxes. In fact one would have to have a very simplistic vision of the world to be in TOTAL disagreement with almost any successful office holder on ALL those issues. If you find yourself in this situation, perhaps you should turn in your voter registration card.

Even if you have nothing to do with the GBLT you have to ask yourself whether the civil liberties of U.S. citizens are worth sacrificing to the other goals and issues at play in your mind as you consider your vote. I think what Allanah is saying is that if you are gay, or bisexual, lesbian or transgender or if you care about someone who is (which presumably people in these forums do), the civil rights of GBLT should carry particularly heavy weight in your considerations. I suppose in theory it’s possible for a gay, bisexual, lesbian or a transgender to vote against their own civil liberties and still not be a hypocrite, but in practice very very few such persons exist, if any.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

So quite a few of you will vote for a person just because they support the GLBT community or vote against the ones that don't. That is foolish.
Say that you agree with everything they are for but the GLBT community and the other person you totally disagree with there stand on war, heath care, education tax, but they support the GLBT community they get your vote? If that is so you need to turn in your voters registration card because you are clueless.
This is how we are in the mess we are in today, for the last 60 years people have been voting that way, as we can see it isn't the best way.

Really?

Maybe you aren't affected by the lack of LGBT rights that exists.
If not, please refference Felicia's post.

According to your analogy if you be OK to vote for a sexist, racist candidate who whose others policies you agreed upon even thought they would not support civil liberties.

I am sorry- but as a ts woman, I want equal protection under the law under gender identity. I CAN NOT vote for a candidate who does NOT support my rights as a citezen to be protected legally agasint discrimination, violence, a partnership with a man -based on my gender idendity.

Perhaps its because this has not affected you personally that you see it as 'silly'.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

@ Allanah: U're the one who brought up posters on this board, as if to blend us in with rest of ur rant about politicians. Not me.

@ Equal Rights for gays: The gays I know live better and more luxurious lives than most heteros. They have equal rights. What they don't have is marriage, in most states. This is a very low priority when I go to the voting booth because I don't care about marriage of any kind. I think all marriages are stupid, and most of them end in a bad way. It makes more sense to just live with someone, If u must.

Since this thread is about dissecting politicians who are supposedly hurting the gay community, then mentioning the fact that Obama threw u all under the bus is very relevant. His name belongs in this thread more than anyone else.
Do you know any gays besides the ones you see on Will and Grace, and Frazer reruns? We do not have anything close to equal rights even before you get to marriage.

Only 12 states have policies that protect against both sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in employment: An additional nine states protect sexual orientation only. That means in 29 states, there is no protection in law at all.

Despite years of trying to get one passed, there is still no federal statute addressing employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in the federal government. Under Bill Clinton, the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, prohibiting federal government workplace discrimination "on the basis of conduct not related to job performance" was interpreted as meaning sexual orientation. He also issued an executive order to more strongly cover the executive branch, over which the President has more control. In 2009 Barack Obama did the same for gender identity. This is laudable, but well short of the full protection truly equal rights would provide.

Only 24 states and the District of Columbia include sexual orientation in their hate crimes legislation.

In the U.S., 75% of students have no state laws to protect them from harassment and discrimination in school based on their sexual orientation.

Homosexuals are not allowed to serve in the military unless they are willing to stay closeted.

Now lets talk about marriage. Getting married is more than just throwing rice and getting a piece of paper. There are 1,138 benefits and responsibilities you only get when you are married. A few of those benefits are unpaid leave to care for an ill spouse, social security survivor benefits and spousal benefits, and the right not to testify against one’s spouse, among others. The Federal Defense of Marriage Act prevents FEMA from providing any relief in the form of family benefits to same-sex couples. After 9-11 the partners of LGBT victims were not allowed to get September 11th victims was given any form of federal relief funds

Obama didn't throw anyone under the bus. He just hasn't done enough, quickly enough to get us completely out from under it. The Human Rights Council, a leading gay rights advocacy group said Obama "made it crystal clear that he is our strongest ally in this fight, that he understands and, in fact, encourages our activism and our voice even when we're impatient with the pace of change."

You may not want to get married, but you have the choice. Until everyone does, there is no equality.

FK

BRA-motherfucking-VO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Allanah is saying is that if you are gay, or bisexual, lesbian or transgender or if you care about someone who is (which presumably people in these forums do), the civil rights of GBLT should carry particularly heavy weight in your considerations. I suppose in theory it’s possible for a gay, bisexual, lesbian or a transgender to vote against their own civil liberties and still not be a hypocrite, but in practice very very few such persons exist, if any.

THANK YOU. That is exactly what I am saying.

[phobun]

In my state, there have been at least 5 murders in the last 8 years of trans-women. They just happened to be sex-workers. There have been no arrests so, there are 5 murderers walking the streets. The police are simply not investigating these murders. How is that justice or equal protection? I guess it's okay that there are killers among us.
I guess an important question to ask is during those 8 years, how many non-trans sex workers were killed as a reference? Making an attempt to quantify the differences might make a stronger point that there is a disparate murder rate with respect to transwomen, which in turn might be ameliorated via tougher legistlation.

It is a tragedy when anyone dies, but it is a particular failure of our society when members of minorities or women are murdered because of hate. Equal rights for transsexuals, for women, for people of color and for gays/lesbians are simply human rights and this needs to be taught early in childhood. I also think equal rights for gays/lesbians, and for transsexuals and other gender variant individuals, should be pursued equally vigorously, and perhaps independently, just as the equal rights movemments for women and for African-Americans are known as separate movements. Although the movements can find common cause, people need to know that gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same, and that rights for transpeople are just as important as gay rights. I fear that by piggy-backing gender identity onto the gay rights movement (with the T always at the end of the sausage BLT acronym), the ignorant population who is watching the demonstrations will only see "gay", rather than two worthy, but ultimately different, movements that are marching together.

I was happy to see Pres. Obama, whom I support, pledge to undo Bill Clinton's pathetic "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy last night. It has been almost a year since he took office, yet there has been no executive order that could overturn it (even with huge public support as well as party support in both houses of congress), so I hope it is not just talk. Sometimes the people who really hold things up are NOT the absurd hypocrites like Larry Craig, the leaders on your own side who pacify a vocal constituency by talking the talk but not walking the walk...

[Felicia Katt]

The difference between being Republican and Democrat on this issue is that if a Democrat does something, they might hurt their chances of re-election, and if a Republican does nothing, it tends to help those same chances.

Its an issue to the Democrats and a wedge issue to the Republicans, who will use it to try to divide and conquer close States. Just like they cheered the Olympics going to Brazil, and just like they openly say they want him to fail, the Republicans would love for Obama to act unilaterally so they could run ad and after ad, attacking him for it. They only care about the next election. Obama is dealing with the issues as best he can, but he has to worry about the next election too. He will walk the walk, but he is trying to make an 8 year journey and not get prematurely tripped up.


FK

[phobun]

Obama is dealing with the issues as best he can, but he has to worry about the next election too. He will walk the walk, but he is trying to make an 8 year journey and not get prematurely tripped up.
Fair points, but he needs to do something. Even SNL, which has been kind so far, is parodying for doing "nothing". The criticism is now that he doesn't have a spine or is not respected.

He needs to do something to have a success at this point. Why not fulfill a campaign promise? If making a campaign promise is going to hurt him, then he never should have made the promise. They can run ads against him for making the promise but not following through too, parlaying that into the weakness criticism, which might be worse than having never gone on video record as making the promise.

[Belial]

@ Felicia: I rarely watch Television, and never watch sitcoms. My Brother-in-law's brother is gay. As is one of my neighbors. Which is good because they tend to raise property values, since they take such good care of their homes. A co-worker of mine is gay. not to mention several others I've met who are known by friends or family members. I would say I know about 10 gays directly, but several others indirectly. Not to mention all the others I've heard of through other sources.

When I was selling my old house, a good percentage of prospective buyers were gay. A Much higher % than what they represent in the general population. A friend who is a real estate broker, tells me the same is true.They're some of the best customers for high priced properties. So I still say that on average, they live better lives than heteros. Of course there are always exceptions.




Obama didn't throw anyone under the bus. He just hasn't done enough, quickly enough to get us completely out from under it. The Human Rights Council, a leading gay rights advocacy group said Obama "made it crystal clear that he is our strongest ally in this fight, that he understands and, in fact, encourages our activism and our voice even when we're impatient with the pace of change."

Here's just one example.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/gay-groups-decry-obama-defense-of-doma.html


"LGBT Legal And Advocacy Groups Decry Obama Administration's Defense of DOMA
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 12, 2009
Contact: Paul Cates, ACLU

We are very surprised and deeply disappointed in the manner in which the Obama administration has defended the so-called Defense of Marriage Act against Smelt v. United States, a lawsuit brought in federal court in California by a married same-sex couple asking the federal government to treat them equally with respect to federal protections and benefits. The administration is using many of the same flawed legal arguments that the Bush administration used. These arguments rightly have been rejected by several state supreme courts as legally unsound and obviously discriminatory.

We disagree with many of the administration’s arguments, for example that DOMA is a valid exercise of Congress’s power, is consistent with Equal Protection or Due Process principles, and does not impinge upon rights that are recognized as fundamental.

We are also extremely disturbed by a new and nonsensical argument the administration has advanced suggesting that the federal government needs to be “neutral” with regard to its treatment of married same-sex couples in order to ensure that federal tax money collected from across the country not be used to assist same-sex couples duly married by their home states. There is nothing “neutral” about the federal government’s discriminatory denial of fair treatment to married same-sex couples: DOMA wrongly bars the federal government from providing any of the over one thousand federal protections to the many thousands of couples who marry in six states. This notion of “neutrality” ignores the fact that while married same-sex couples pay their full share of income and social security taxes, they are prevented by DOMA from receiving the corresponding same benefits that married heterosexual taxpayers receive. It is the married same-sex couples, not heterosexuals in other parts of the country, who are financially and personally damaged in significant ways by DOMA. For the Obama administration to suggest otherwise simply departs from both mathematical and legal reality.

When President Obama was courting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender voters, he said that he believed that DOMA should be repealed. We ask him to live up to his emphatic campaign promises, to stop making false and damaging legal arguments, and immediately to introduce a bill to repeal DOMA and ensure that every married couple in America has the same access to federal protections.

Signed,

ACLU
GLAD
Lambda Legal
NCLR
HRC
NGLTF"

[Belial]

So quite a few of you will vote for a person just because they support the GLBT community or vote against the ones that don't. That is foolish.
Say that you agree with everything they are for but the GLBT community and the other person you totally disagree with there stand on war, heath care, education tax, but they support the GLBT community they get your vote? If that is so you need to turn in your voters registration card because you are clueless.
This is how we are in the mess we are in today, for the last 60 years people have been voting that way, as we can see it isn't the best way.

Most of the people whining in this thread are one issue voters. I prefer to look @ the bigger picture. :cool:

[sucka4chix]

I think this thread has veered way off course, but I must agree with the numbskulls that this one-issue-equals-my candidate type of voting is irresponsible and simply foolish. There are a gazillion people out there who continue to vote candidates on the basis of abortion views. Abortion is way down on my list of important topics, but even if it wasn't, I couldn't qualify or disqualify a candidate based solely on this. That would be absurd.

[trish]

Most of the people whining in this thread are one issue voters. I prefer to look @ the bigger picture. :cool:

To gain my support a candidate has to have satisfactory stances on ALL the issues of interest. That INCLUDES the issue of civil rights for GBLT. If the candidate fails on this issue, then he doesn't have my support, just the same as if he failed to have the right stand on health care, or failed to have the right stand on energy. This is not single issue voting. What the you suggest is that I lower my standards and not measure my candidates against ALL issues. Your suggestion is that civil rights could be dropped from the list with no real harm. Sorry, but that's just stupid and against my own best interests as well as yours.

The only whiner with a single issue here is you, and your issue is obviously Obama.

[paulgutierrez]

Maybe because some of us cock-obsessed perverts have empathy, and know it's a perversion.

I wish I could see all those parading faggots as my "own" but I just dont, sorry.

[Felicia Katt]

Belial, you tried to make three points with the first one that we have equal rights, but as was pointed out, in detail, this simply wasn't the case.

The second one was your insistence gays are better off then straights, based on some limited, anecdotal experiences, but without providing any real facts.

Here are some. A recent report released by the UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute shows that poverty is a serious concern for LGB individuals and families:
• same-sex couples are significantly more likely to be poor than heterosexual couples.
• Among people 18 to 44, gay/bisexual men and heterosexual men are equally likely to be poor (15 percent versus 13 percent), and le
• African Americans in same-sex couples and same-sex couples living in rural areas have particularly high poverty rates.
• Children of gay partners are twice as likely to be poor as children of heterosexual couples.
• Many more LGB people live in families with very low incomes, defined as 200 percent of the federal poverty level.
• Both gay individuals and couples are more likely than married people to receive government cash supports.

So this also isn't the case

Your final point is your continued assertion that Obama, because Congress hasn't repealed DOMA or DADT yet, is somehow morally the same as all of the closeted gay Republicans who vote against gay rights and for legalized gay discrimination. That's like saying the fireman who is slow to the fire is as bad as the arsonist who burns down his own house.

Clearly not the case

None of your points were ever really relevant to the discussion, which was about hypocritical politicians who legislate against their own self interest. No doubt you try to make these points because you voted for the party these hypocrites all belong to, or against Obama. That's your right, but its not the case you see the big picture when your viewpoint is so narrow.

FK

[Rogers]

Maybe because some of us cock-obsessed perverts have empathy, and know it's a perversion.

Speak for yourself. :wink: You were the guy who couldn't see a problem with genetically engineering "shemales" so that you could have a sex-doll. And you're going to have a rocky road in life if you think that emotion is a perversion. It's the nature of the beast. I know you're not religious, because you said you weren't, but I've still got to ask if you whip yourself in private?


I wish I could see all those parading faggots as my "own" but I just dont, sorry.

Sure gays can be funny, but so can many other "kinds" of humans be absurdly funny too. Religious ones crack me up all the time. People say things on this board that frequently crack me up too, and that's a large part of the reason I still keep looking in. How about just having respect for "parading faggots" because they are simply other thinking, human beings? :idea: If they are disrespectful to you, then sure, dislike that INDIVIDUAL all you like.

[Rogers]

Most of the people whining in this thread are one issue voters. I prefer to look @ the bigger picture. :cool:

The only whiner with a single issue here is you, and your issue is obviously Obama.

You forgot Al Gore, climate change, the U.N., etc., trish. :wink: 8)

[Nicole Dupre]

Maybe because some of us cock-obsessed perverts have empathy, and know it's a perversion.

I wish I could see all those parading faggots as my "own" but I just dont, sorry.

See a good shrink a.s.a.p. You're postal/suicide by cop, waiting to hit bottom.

[Belial]

@ Felicia: U claimed that the only gay people I knew, were on sitcoms. When I listed the real life people I knew, both directly and indirectly, u called it "anecdotal experiences". As if u were here, and could know. I'm not sure what "facts" I should have provided? Was I suppose to give names, addresses, and SS numbers?

Ur insistence that gays are a poor, oppressed, minority is laughable. The gays I've known enjoy a much higher standard of living, than the average Hetero. That is a fact that I've been able to see with my own eyes.

Why do u think that such a small minority has so much lobbying power in DC? Because they're financially struggling? Please. If they didn't have a lot of money, they'd be nowhere.

Ur "community" probably will have marriage someday, but not from Obama. He'll keep betraying u by not keeping his promises until he loses his re-election bid in 2012.

I sense tension and anger in u & ur crew's posts. It's ok, I understand. If a President I supported had betrayed me, I'd be angry too. It won't end after the 2010 elections. Obama will continue to throw u all under the bus because he still has 2012 to worry about. lol

[Belial]

As for gay vs straight marriage; who gives a shit whether YOU're destined to marry. That's not the issue here. The issue is "what's good for the goose should be what's good for the gander".

Anyway, you sound lonely and angry, and like you're the farthest thing from marriage material. Trust me. We believe you, and it's ok. There are some lovely fellas just like you, right here on this forum. So keep your chin up. Your prince may still come. ;) :lol:

Evil Nicole wants to drag me into the mud pit with her, but I refuse to play her game. :cool:

[Nicole Dupre]

As for gay vs straight marriage; who gives a shit whether YOU're destined to marry. That's not the issue here. The issue is "what's good for the goose should be what's good for the gander".

Anyway, you sound lonely and angry, and like you're the farthest thing from marriage material. Trust me. We believe you, and it's ok. There are some lovely fellas just like you, right here on this forum. So keep your chin up. Your prince may still come. ;) :lol:

Evil Nicole wants to drag me into the mud pit with her, but I refuse to play her game. :cool:

Then don't try dragging us into your Rush Limbaugh-esque bullshit on a thread that's not about Obama. That way, "Evil Nicole" won't clock you as an angry closet case with an axe to grind.

[cookiepuss]

As for gay vs straight marriage; who gives a shit whether YOU're destined to marry. That's not the issue here. The issue is "what's good for the goose should be what's good for the gander".

Anyway, you sound lonely and angry, and like you're the farthest thing from marriage material. Trust me. We believe you, and it's ok. There are some lovely fellas just like you, right here on this forum. So keep your chin up. Your prince may still come. ;) :lol:

Evil Nicole wants to drag me into the mud pit with her, but I refuse to play her game. :cool:

Then don't try dragging us into your Rush Limbaugh-esque bullshit on a thread that's not about Obama. That way, "Evil Nicole" won't clock you as an angry closet case with an axe to grind.

Agree with Nicole, not just because she's a hottie!

Belia, maybe tone down your avatar or Obama pic. Very overwhelming!

[trish]

When I listed the real life people I knew, both directly and indirectly, u called it "anecdotal experiences". As if u were here, and could know. I'm not sure what "facts" I should have provided? Was I suppose to give names, addresses, and SS numbers?

Ur insistence that gays are a poor, oppressed, minority is laughable. The gays I've known enjoy a much higher standard of living, than the average Hetero. That is a fact that I've been able to see with my own eyesNo, it isn’t Mr. Boldface. Unless you’ve conducted a statistical study you can only provide anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence, although valuable, is notoriously prone to biased selection and preconceived expectations. In your case I suspect this is especially true. Nobody’s asking for social security numbers, but we certainly aren’t inclined to take your report of your acquaintances and acquaintances of acquaintances as authoritative.

[Nicole Dupre]

Btw, this post was COMEDY! :lol:


Which is good because they tend to raise property values, since they take such good care of their homes.

Translation: "Gosh, those faggots really spruced up my trailer park/ghetto/shithole neighborhood. I think everyone should own one."


My Brother-in-law's brother is gay. As is one of my neighbors. A co-worker of mine is gay. not to mention several others I've met who are known by friends or family members.

Translation: I don't like gay people, but I'm forced to work with them. Some of my friends know some too. I'm so impressed. They really live on the edge.

My sister's actually married to someone with a gay brother... But I never kissed him tho', and I'll swear to that!


I would say I know about 10 gays directly, but several others indirectly. Not to mention all the others I've heard of through other sources.


I've only taken it up the ass less than a dozen times... But, hey! That was in prison, so it doesn't count! One time I actually saw a grown man carrying a LV bag, and his haircut cost more than $12. Other than that, the word on the street is that some of the boys around here a little... well... you know... "artsy".

:lol:

[Belial]

Btw, this post was COMEDY! :lol:


Which is good because they tend to raise property values, since they take such good care of their homes.

Translation: "Gosh, those faggots really spruced up my trailer park/ghetto/shithole neighborhood. I think everyone should own one."


My Brother-in-law's brother is gay. As is one of my neighbors. A co-worker of mine is gay. not to mention several others I've met who are known by friends or family members.

Translation: I don't like gay people, but I'm forced to work with them. Some of my friends know some too. I'm so impressed. They really live on the edge.

My sister's actually married to someone with a gay brother... But I never kissed him tho', and I'll swear to that!


I would say I know about 10 gays directly, but several others indirectly. Not to mention all the others I've heard of through other sources.


I've only taken it up the ass less than a dozen times... But, hey! That was in prison, so it doesn't count! One time I actually saw a grown man carrying a LV bag, and his haircut cost more than $12. Other than that, the word on the street is that some of the boys around here a little... well... you know... "artsy".

:lol:

Such Wickedness. :cool:

[Felicia Katt]

@ Felicia: U claimed that the only gay people I knew, were on sitcoms. When I listed the real life people I knew, both directly and indirectly, u called it "anecdotal experiences". As if u were here, and could know. I'm not sure what "facts" I should have provided? Was I suppose to give names, addresses, and SS numbers?

Ur insistence that gays are a poor, oppressed, minority is laughable. The gays I've known enjoy a much higher standard of living, than the average Hetero. That is a fact that I've been able to see with my own eyes.

Why do u think that such a small minority has so much lobbying power in DC? Because they're financially struggling? Please. If they didn't have a lot of money, they'd be nowhere.

Ur "community" probably will have marriage someday, but not from Obama. He'll keep betraying u by not keeping his promises until he loses his re-election bid in 2012.

I sense tension and anger in u & ur crew's posts. It's ok, I understand. If a President I supported had betrayed me, I'd be angry too. It won't end after the 2010 elections. Obama will continue to throw u all under the bus because he still has 2012 to worry about. lol
I gave you the facts. Your choosing to disregard them because they don't fit your viewpoint or agenda doesn't change them. Your saying you have seen a few privileged or affluent gay people doesn't rebut them. The GLBT community doesn't have anything close to economic or social equality yet, let alone some financial advantage. The Williams Institute Study concluded that “the misleading myth of affluence steers policymakers, community organizations, service providers, and the media away from fully understanding poverty among LGBT people or even imagining that poor LGBT people exist.”

These economic inequalities spring from the fact gays are the the victims of discrimination and are not allowed to marry The Williams Institute study recommends passage of laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and allowing same sex partners to have the same rights and benefits straight couples enjoy.

The tension you are feeling is from continuing to ignore the real issue here, of hypocrisy among Republicans, and ceaselessly trying to deflect the criticism they deserve to Obama, But he is not in the closet and has a good track record on his gay right voting. He hasn't reversed all the evils done by the people you seem to support yet but at least he is working on it The Right are doing their best to stop him and if they can't, are plotting to exploit the issue as a divisive wedge, once again for their own political gains, at our expense. The reason you keep denying and deflecting so much is because you are not much better than those closeted Right Wingers. You are here on this board, but don't claim membership to this community and support those who want to oppress and marginalize it. If we are under the bus, you may not be driving but you are along for the ride, and seated comfortably inside it.

FK

[Stoked]

Still, Obama doesnt support gay marriage... a fact you cant overlook, and to that end, he will never push for it as you would like.

[Nicole Dupre]

Mommy! Nicole Dupre is being mean to me! Whaaaaahhh!!!

"Evil" and "wickedness"? These demonizing one-word rebuttals of yours aren't helping you sell that weak rhetoric. Let's face it. You were way off topic pages ago. I think the only recourse you may have now is to hush up, have yourself a nightcap, download a little free porn, and call it a night. ;)

Of course, you might attempt to validate your viewpoint, even a little, by addressing ANY of FK's or Trish's posts. But, so far, it looks as if you and your goofy signature are on the ropes. Your mouth is writing checks your brain cannot cash.

Personally I'm having too much fun making fun of you to let you off the hook. ;)

But that's "cuz I'm evil. My middle name is 'misery'..." :P lol

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1017946/3836037

[russtafa]

i never vote for the main parties becawse you are voteing for the satus quo and that means no change either right or left

[AllanahStarrNYC]

This is why we need LGBT hate crime protection ALL over the us.

Shit like this still happens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/jack-price-hate-crime-dan_n_317519.html

[eclipsemint]

This is why we need LGBT hate crime protection ALL over the us.

Shit like this still happens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/jack-price-hate-crime-dan_n_317519.html

When I die and am reincarnated, I want to come back as Allanah's LGBT hate crime protection and be ALL over her.

[Nicole Dupre]

"When the Nazis came, they first came for the communists.
But I remained silent; because, after all, I was not a communist.

And when they locked up the social democrats, I again remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists, I never spoke out;
I was not a trade unionist.

And then they came for the Jews. But I remained silent once again;
because, after all, I was not a Jew.

But then... they came for me.
And there was no one left to speak out for me."

Martin Niemöller

[Belial]

This is why we need LGBT hate crime protection ALL over the us.

Shit like this still happens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/jack-price-hate-crime-dan_n_317519.html

Then we also need hate crime protection for heteros.

http://www.pinke.biz/news/4828/Gay_Murderers_On_Trial_In_Bristol

[Belial]

Still, Obama doesnt support gay marriage... a fact you cant overlook, and to that end, he will never push for it as you would like.

Which is something his worshipers won't ever admit in this thread.

[TsGiaX]

I wanna see this doc

[Rogers]

If you check "Belial"'s posts you'll find out that he is also a gun fetishist with rape fantasies. Gratz on being a complete douchebag, White_Male_Canada. 8)




Other punishments ive heard are some slashes owww scary.


Sounds hot. Police apprehension, punishment, and rape, would make a good theme for a DVD.
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=714257&highlight=#714257

Just like I said... a lack of empathy. The hallmark of a sociopath.

[Nicole Dupre]

Then we also need hate crime protection for heteros.

http://www.pinke.biz/news/4828/Gay_Murderers_On_Trial_In_Bristol

Wow. I see you're not through making an complete ass of yourself. Because now you've placed the burden of proof on yourself to prove that this was a hate crime, and not an unfortunate and isolated incident.

Perhaps the Bristol Police should contact you, since you're claiming to be privy to previously undisclosed information which could shed light on a murder investigation. Or are you withholding evidence?

And what happened to your theory on all gay people living in luxury and raising property values?

8)

[Felicia Katt]

This is why we need LGBT hate crime protection ALL over the us.

Shit like this still happens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/jack-price-hate-crime-dan_n_317519.html

Then we also need hate crime protection for heteros.

http://www.pinke.biz/news/4828/Gay_Murderers_On_Trial_In_Bristol
So, your justification for a heterosexual hate crime law is a case FROM ENGLAND, where two gay guys (after the were told they couldn't share an apartment) allegedly killed the landlady and used her credit cars to go on a spending spree. Greed, not hate

Allanah's example was a gay man was beaten into a coma by two men after taunting and yelling anti-gay slurs at him. According to FBI hate crime statistics, there were over a thousand reported violent hate crimes based on sexual orientation in 2005.

No equivalency to these cases, at all. And no justice at all to your justification.

FK

[phobun]

So, your justification for a heterosexual hate crime law is a case FROM ENGLAND,
But since Belial is from Canada, a dominion of the QUEEN, case law in England might be relevant as he flounces about.

[Belial]

And what happened to your theory on all gay people living in luxury and raising property values?

8)

I also said this.


[b]
@ Felicia: I rarely watch Television, and never watch sitcoms. My Brother-in-law's brother is gay. As is one of my neighbors. Which is good because they tend to raise property values, since they take such good care of their homes. A co-worker of mine is gay. not to mention several others I've met who are known by friends or family members. I would say I know about 10 gays directly, but several others indirectly. Not to mention all the others I've heard of through other sources.

When I was selling my old house, a good percentage of prospective buyers were gay. A Much higher % than what they represent in the general population. A friend who is a real estate broker, tells me the same is true.They're some of the best customers for high priced properties. So I still say that on average, they live better lives than heteros. Of course there are always exceptions.

Try to follow the conversation, please.

[Belial]

If you check "Belial"'s posts you'll find out that he is also a gun fetishist with rape fantasies. Gratz on being a complete douchebag, White_Male_Canada. 8)




Other punishments ive heard are some slashes owww scary.


Sounds hot. Police apprehension, punishment, and rape, would make a good theme for a DVD.
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=714257&highlight=#714257

Just like I said... a lack of empathy. The hallmark of a sociopath.

There are many on this forum who are gun & rifle enthusiasts, and rape porn is more common than u think. http://inshadow.com/home.htm

I'm not ashamed of it because I know the difference between fantasy & reality. I never expected to be called on it, on a forum loaded with porn, and prostitutes. I do think it amusing, that a liberal is more socially conservative than I am. Isn't judging people on their sexual tastes, something u always accuse conservatives of doing? And on a forum like this, of all places?

I also never thought that I'd have a male stalker going into all of my past posts & following me around the forum. I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself, or I'm sure they'd probably be in ur hard drive, formed in a collage of admiration.

And finally, I'm not this WMC gentleman, that u keep alluding to.

[Belial]

This is why we need LGBT hate crime protection ALL over the us.

Shit like this still happens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/12/jack-price-hate-crime-dan_n_317519.html

Then we also need hate crime protection for heteros.

http://www.pinke.biz/news/4828/Gay_Murderers_On_Trial_In_Bristol
So, your justification for a heterosexual hate crime law is a case FROM ENGLAND, where two gay guys (after the were told they couldn't share an apartment) allegedly killed the landlady and used her credit cars to go on a spending spree. Greed, not hate

Allanah's example was a gay man was beaten into a coma by two men after taunting and yelling anti-gay slurs at him. According to FBI hate crime statistics, there were over a thousand reported violent hate crimes based on sexual orientation in 2005.

No equivalency to these cases, at all. And no justice at all to your justification.

FK

There's nothing alleged about it. They're starting to rat each other out to save their own skins. To me, all murder is a hate crime. I don't see why these two shouldn't receive just as harsh a punishment, as any murderer of a gay person. Is this poor woman's life not as valuable as a gay person's? That her murderers should receive a lesser punishment? And then I get accused of a lack of empathy. Sheesh. I don't buy the "Greed" excuse as their motive. They did it because they didn't like her rules and beliefs. And then they decided to take advantage of her credit cards, after the fact.

Here's something out of St Louis. These types of stories are hard to find, because of a left-wing media who only want to portray heterosexual white males, (preferably Christian) as perpetrators of hate crimes.

http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/jamesedwards/2009/06/19/black-lesbians-murder-man-for-being-heterosexual/

"Black lesbians murder man for being heterosexual

ST. LOUIS — Two women accused of beating a man to death in Forest Park were charged today with first-degree murder, armed criminal action and filing a false police report.

Dawn E. Fulks, 25, and Mellonie D. Jones, 20, both of St. Louis, are being held at jail without bond, St. Louis police said.

Police described the women as lovers and said the two beat the man after he made unwelcome advances toward Fulks, but she refused, police said.

The two are accused of fatally beating Willard Bryant Payne, 26, of University City, who was found dead early Monday in the Kennedy Forest area of Forest Park. Police said Payne died of head trauma.

Either late Sunday or early Monday, Payne went with the women to smoke marijuana in the park, police said. When Payne made an advance at Fulks, police said Jones allegedly hit Payne.
He tried to run, but the women caught him and continued to beat him with an object not identified by investigators, police said.

Police said both women were larger than Payne. According to data from Payne’s driver’s license, he was 5-foot-5 and weighed 140 pounds.

The women told police that Payne tried to rape Fulks, but police do not believe that happened, resulting in the false police report charge."

I'm sure these two will make ur community proud.

[Stoked]

Still, Obama doesnt support gay marriage... a fact you cant overlook, and to that end, he will never push for it as you would like.

Which is something his worshipers won't ever admit in this thread.

A thread entitled "the hypocrisy of it all"...

[trish]

Murder, Belial, is a hateful crime but not all murders are hate crimes. What’s so hard about that? The indiscriminate murder of people within a population, committed for the sole reason that the victims belong to that population, is not only murder but also a crime of violence against the population. The judgment against the perpetrator needs to reflect the weight of both the murder per se and the violence against the affected community.

So here’s the story that got you whining.

“ST. LOUIS — Two women accused of beating a man to death in Forest Park were charged today with first-degree murder, armed criminal action and filing a false police report.
Dawn E. Fulks, 25, and Mellonie D. Jones, 20, both of St. Louis, are being held at jail without bond, St. Louis police said.
Police described the women as lovers and said the two beat the man after he made unwelcome advances toward Fulks, but she refused, police said.
The two are accused of fatally beating Willard Bryant Payne, 26, of University City, who was found dead early Monday in the Kennedy Forest area of Forest Park. Police said Payne died of head trauma.
Either late Sunday or early Monday, Payne went with the women to smoke marijuana in the park, police said. When Payne made an advance at Fulks, police said Jones allegedly hit Payne.
He tried to run, but the women caught him and continued to beat him with an object not identified by investigators, police said.
Police said both women were larger than Payne. According to data from Payne’s driver’s license, he was 5-foot-5 and weighed 140 pounds.
The women told police that Payne tried to rape Fulks, but police do not believe that happened, resulting in the false police report charge.”

Believe me, Fox News and other Faux News outlets are all over these stories. They’re hard to find because they are not frequent occurrences. The one you site certainly isn’t an open and shut case is it? These stories are hard to find because there is no intransigent social problem of homosexuals perpetrating violence against heterosexuals.

But this thread isn’t about hate crimes. This thread is about politicians and voters who hypocritically work against themselves and the people they supposedly care about. I took the purpose of this thread as an invitation to those of you who have transgender friends and lovers to re-evaluate your political positions and think about those you love and those with whom you hang before casting a vote against them. Thank you, Allanah, for the invitation.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself...

... because you're a wuss who's afraid that your homophobic buddies would label you the fag. Then you'd be the statistic of a REAL hate crime. Why lie about it? 8)

[Felicia Katt]

Being a hypocrite, means being one way, and acting in another inconsistent way. Like being a closeted gay Republican man, and voting against gay marriage or adoption, like Charlie Crist. Like having a zero rating on gay rights issues by the Human Rights Campaign group , and getting caught sucking dick in an airport restroom like Larry Craig.

That's what this thread is about, not Obama. As a candidate, he said he was in favor of civil unions that would give same sex couples all the same rights as married couples, but did say he opposed gay marriage. He has never indicated he would veto any law that conferred that right, and has indicated he doesn't support DOMA. He hasn't done enough, quickly enough to keep all his promises yet, but he hasn't abandoned them and he certainly hasn't acted opposite to them.

and if Belial is really from Canada, why is he posting in this thread at all. Discrimination against GBLT persons is prohibited throughout Canada in private and public sector employment, housing, and services provided to the public . All aspects of employment are covered, including benefits for spouses and long-term partners. Gay Canadians have been allowed to serve in the military since 1992. Same sex marriage has been legal there since 2005.

Even if he denies being part of this community, he is one. Advocating that others don't deserve rights you already enjoy? That's hypocrisy.

FK

[Realgirls4me]

... Barman. One round of drinks on me to the ladies (Trish, Nicole, and Felicia) seated over near the window kicking some serious ass tonight.

[Rogers]

If you check "Belial"'s posts you'll find out that he is also a gun fetishist with rape fantasies. Gratz on being a complete douchebag, White_Male_Canada. 8)




Other punishments ive heard are some slashes owww scary.


Sounds hot. Police apprehension, punishment, and rape, would make a good theme for a DVD.
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=714257&highlight=#714257

Just like I said... a lack of empathy. The hallmark of a sociopath.

There are many on this forum who are gun & rifle enthusiasts, and rape porn is more common than u think. http://inshadow.com/home.htm

I'm not ashamed of it because I know the difference between fantasy & reality. I never expected to be called on it, on a forum loaded with porn, and prostitutes. I do think it amusing, that a liberal is more socially conservative than I am. Isn't judging people on their sexual tastes, something u always accuse conservatives of doing? And on a forum like this, of all places?

Your link doesn't work, not that I care. But maybe you need a password for it. :wink:

Forbidden
You do not have permission to access this document.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Server at inshadow.com

There is a world of difference between sexual tastes where the people involved respect each other and rape. Rape is up there with pedophilia. If you can't understand that then you maybe are indeed sociopathic.


I also never thought that I'd have a male stalker going into all of my past posts & following me around the forum. I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself, or I'm sure they'd probably be in ur hard drive, formed in a collage of admiration.

Haha, projecting again. Not only did you do collages, but you also set up false accounts for posters here on one of the gay boards you frequent. But don't worry about me "stalking" you, cupcake. You (panty)wasted enough of my time in the 5 weeks between when I first came here and you got banned. As I told LG, I would rather have teeth pulled than do that again, because as seanchai said to you, "Christ, you're a pain".

5 weeks, hahaha! :lol:


And finally, I'm not this WMC gentleman, that u keep alluding to.

Ah, but I never called you WMC. :wink: That was one of his nicknames that other used for him after a while responding to his trolling BS. Others included, White_Mounted_Canadian, and White_Male_Closet-case. :lol: You're dropping so much BS that you're tripping over it again, WMC. 8)

[Stoked]

[quote="Felicia Katt"]Being a hypocrite, means being one way, and acting in another inconsistent way.

Like believing in civil unions and not marriage for the LGBT community.

[Belial]

Murder, Belial, is a hateful crime but not all murders are hate crimes. What’s so hard about that?

This ground has already been covered, so I'll just quote myself.


Is this poor (heterosexual) woman's life not as valuable as a gay person's? That her murderers should receive a lesser punishment? And then I get accused of a lack of empathy. Sheesh.



But this thread isn’t about hate crimes.

Allanah opened that can, first.

So what about the two lesbians in ST Louis? Should they be charged with a hate crime? My guess is that u'll either find an excuse to say no, as they don't fit the desired criteria of being white Heterosexual males. (Preferably Christians) Or u'll pay lip service and say yes now, but then change ur mind if it ever really were about to happen.

People keep whining about equality, yet they don't want equality when it comes to punishing crimes. Anyway u cut it, murder is still murder, and assault, is still assault. They should all be judged and punished equally. It's the American way. And as long as we have disgusting laws that show favoritism, we'll never find that promised land that MLK once dreamed about. These kind of garbage laws further divide Americans, which is what liberal politicians really want.

[Belial]

I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself...

... because you're a wuss who's afraid that your homophobic buddies would label you the fag. Then you'd be the statistic of a REAL hate crime. Why lie about it? 8)

U're overdue for an Exorcism, young lady. :cool:

[Belial]

As a candidate, he said he was in favor of civil unions that would give same sex couples all the same rights as married couples, but did say he opposed gay marriage.

So how does that distinguish him from Republicans? The issue has always been marriage rights, not civil unions. The Democrats could easily pass civil union laws, plenty of Republicans in both houses would support it.


He has never indicated he would veto any law that conferred that right, and has indicated he doesn't support DOMA.

I've already passed u a link earlier in this thread, showing how he defended it back in June. And people from ur "Community" were highly pissed off, when he threw them under the bus.



and if Belial is really from Canada,

No. I am a US citizen, and live in the US. I'm not sure why Rogers has this disturbing obsession with me, I really wish he'd go stalk somebody closer to his own sexual orientation, who MAY appreciate his fixation on him. I honestly never talked to him before he started accusing me of being another person from Canada. (Which I'm not)

[Belial]

If you check "Belial"'s posts you'll find out that he is also a gun fetishist with rape fantasies. Gratz on being a complete douchebag, White_Male_Canada. 8)




Other punishments ive heard are some slashes owww scary.


Sounds hot. Police apprehension, punishment, and rape, would make a good theme for a DVD.
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=714257&highlight=#714257

Just like I said... a lack of empathy. The hallmark of a sociopath.

There are many on this forum who are gun & rifle enthusiasts, and rape porn is more common than u think. http://inshadow.com/home.htm

I'm not ashamed of it because I know the difference between fantasy & reality. I never expected to be called on it, on a forum loaded with porn, and prostitutes. I do think it amusing, that a liberal is more socially conservative than I am. Isn't judging people on their sexual tastes, something u always accuse conservatives of doing? And on a forum like this, of all places?

Your link doesn't work, not that I care. But maybe you need a password for it. :wink:

Forbidden
You do not have permission to access this document.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Server at inshadow.com

That's interesting. I posted you the free side of the site, and any unfiltered computer in the US should be able to access it. This only proves that u must be posting from another country. Either that, or u're on mommy's filtered computer. I'll give u the benefit of the doubt that u're not a minor on his mother's PC, even if u do act like one. So that leaves us with u posting from another country. Hasn't the UK banned these type of sites?


There is a world of difference between sexual tastes where the people involved respect each other and rape. Rape is up there with pedophilia. If you can't understand that then you maybe are indeed sociopathic.

Wrong again. U're talking about the CRIME of rape. There is nothing wrong with rape role-play between two consenting adults. Especially when 'safe words' are used and respected. BDSM role-play uses the same type of 'safe words'.

Other forums I post @ are loaded with genetic women who enjoy rape role-playing. I know of @ least two transsexuals on this forum, who also enjoy it, and have PMed me to ask for site addresses. Because they liked certain pics that I had. Out of respect for their privacy, I won't ever mention their names. I will say that one of them is very popular amongst the fan-boys of this forum. U'd be surprised.

U're social conservatism is still amusing. :cool:


I also never thought that I'd have a male stalker going into all of my past posts & following me around the forum. I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself, or I'm sure they'd probably be in ur hard drive, formed in a collage of admiration.


Haha, projecting again. Not only did you do collages, but you also set up false accounts for posters here on one of the gay boards you frequent. But don't worry about me "stalking" you, cupcake. You (panty)wasted enough of my time in the 5 weeks between when I first came here and you got banned. As I told LG, I would rather have teeth pulled than do that again, because as seanchai said to you, "Christ, you're a pain".

5 weeks, hahaha! :lol:


And finally, I'm not this WMC gentleman, that u keep alluding to.

Ah, but I never called you WMC. :wink: That was one of his nicknames that other used for him after a while responding to his trolling BS. Others included, White_Mounted_Canadian, and White_Male_Closet-case. :lol: You're dropping so much BS that you're tripping over it again, WMC. 8)

:sigh: I ALMOST feel sorry for u here. So abbreviating a long username = I must be him? U want to keep believing ur own mistake, I can't do anything to prevent it. I'm not that person, but go ahead and believe anything u want. There's no worse person to lie to, than urself. :idea:

[SarahG]

That's what this thread is about, not Obama. As a candidate, he said he was in favor of civil unions that would give same sex couples all the same rights as married couples, but did say he opposed gay marriage. He has never indicated he would veto any law that conferred that right, and has indicated he doesn't support DOMA. He hasn't done enough, quickly enough to keep all his promises yet, but he hasn't abandoned them and he certainly hasn't acted opposite to them.

Actually the Obama admin compared homosexuality to incest & pedophilia while defending DOMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWlVYKTvNk

[SarahG]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.

Not all murders are hate crimes.

A quickie mart clerk being shot in a robbery attempt is not a hate crime. A jogger mowed down by a drunk driver is not a hate crime.

We care about WHY people kill all the time, otherwise we wouldn't differentiate between premeditated & manslaughter.

Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.

Not all murders are hate crimes.

A quickie mart clerk being shot in a robbery attempt is not a hate crime. A jogger mowed down by a drunk driver is not a hate crime.

We care about WHY people kill all the time, otherwise we wouldn't differentiate between premeditated & manslaughter.

Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

Exactly, otherwise the law would not define murder by degrees or types of manslaughter.

[Belial]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.
Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

If it's determined to be 1st degree murder in both cases, then it's all the same to me. If we pretend for a moment, that it happened in the US. Those two gay people in the UK should be sentenced just as harshly, as any Hetero accused of a hate murder. I'm sure we'll never agree on that. U'll never change my mind about wanting people to be judged equally under the law.

[SarahG]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.
Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

If it's determined to be 1st degree murder in both cases, then it's all the same to me. If we pretend for a moment, that it happened in the US. Those two gay people in the UK should be sentenced just as harshly, as any Hetero accused of a hate murder. I'm sure we'll never agree on that. U'll never change my mind about wanting people to be judged equally under the law.

If someone is killed because of their orientation, then that's a hate crime no matter who's what.

But I am really talking about motive here, NOT whether or not the victim and accused happen by coincidence to be of different orientations.

Really, people who are tryin to spin it as "its only a hate crime when gays are killed, not when gays kill breeders" is as far from reality as it gets. Go read the hate crime statures- the whole premise legally doesn't hold.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I guess I should post one last thing here since I opened this topic, feel free to continue.

BUT, the POINT I was making, was made (which some understood as HOOKED ON PHONICS clear as it was, and others decided to distort it to promote their own agendas). Politicians who vote agasint LGBT rights yet are caught in a gay act or are in the closet, are ASSHOLE hypocrites whose crime is beyond words.

It would be like Hitler himself, being Jewish.

As simplistic as that may sound, the truth is sometimes very SIMPLE.

This thread took a life of it's own when the Obama haters turned this into something that it was not. I do feel the President will make cosiderable change in LGBT legislation within his term in office. Only time will tell.

I think the right wingers, Republicans, Obama bashers on this board who do not support LGBT rights, or hate crime legislation for LGBT people, or rights for the community are as very much in denial and as hypocritical.

This issue extends beyond any political party. The Repulican party has taken it upon itself to promote and anti LGBT agenda and platform. That is there choice as a party. If that is what you want to lay with and believe in then that is FINE.

BUT dont' come here and enjoy transsexual women and be anti-trans rights. This is a HARD life. Trans-women are subject to plenty of violence,
discrimination, and are murdered for being trans. We suffer plenty to be who we are and live how we do. No we don't want any special treatment, we just wanted to be accepted and be given the same protections, rights anyone else has.

How DARE those of you who do not support OUR RIGHTS think it's OK to enjoy us and our lifestyle yet deny us of our basic rights as citezens?

SHAME ON YOU. Really. I have absolutely NO respect for you and neither do ANY of the girls.

None of us are any better than the other- wether you are a prostitute, or a doctor ,we all deserve protection under the law . And that goes the SAME for the MEN. You can be in the closet about liking trans- but don't fucking sit there and jerk your dick to the porn, suck a tranny dick in private, take it in the ass (whatever you want to do) and feel you can FURTHER objectify us by thinking we don't deserve to be treated as people legally or socialy.

If you do- FUCK YOU. Really, because sometimes A FUCK YOU, is all that will do.

[Belial]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.
Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

If it's determined to be 1st degree murder in both cases, then it's all the same to me. If we pretend for a moment, that it happened in the US. Those two gay people in the UK should be sentenced just as harshly, as any Hetero accused of a hate murder. I'm sure we'll never agree on that. U'll never change my mind about wanting people to be judged equally under the law.

If someone is killed because of their orientation, then that's a hate crime no matter who's what.

But I am really talking about motive here, NOT whether or not the victim and accused happen by coincidence to be of different orientations.

Really, people who are tryin to spin it as "its only a hate crime when gays are killed, not when gays kill breeders" is as far from reality as it gets. Go read the hate crime statures- the whole premise legally doesn't hold.

Have those two lesbians I posted about earlier in this thread been charged with a hate crime? If not, then explain why.

I repeat, to me it's the crime that matters, not the motive. I'm not talking about the differences in the severity of the crimes. If a straight person calls someone a fag, and commits 1st degree murder, I don't want that person judged any differently than if someone called someone else an asshole, and commits 1st degree murder. My whole point is equal treatment for all Americans under the law. Not what the statures say about hate crimes.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

To me, all murder is a hate crime.
Someone who is intentionally killed, and someone who is accidentally killed is just as dead either way. Their families have the same loss, yet our system sees one as a far worse crime than the other.

If it's determined to be 1st degree murder in both cases, then it's all the same to me. If we pretend for a moment, that it happened in the US. Those two gay people in the UK should be sentenced just as harshly, as any Hetero accused of a hate murder. I'm sure we'll never agree on that. U'll never change my mind about wanting people to be judged equally under the law.

If someone is killed because of their orientation, then that's a hate crime no matter who's what.

But I am really talking about motive here, NOT whether or not the victim and accused happen by coincidence to be of different orientations.

Really, people who are tryin to spin it as "its only a hate crime when gays are killed, not when gays kill breeders" is as far from reality as it gets. Go read the hate crime statures- the whole premise legally doesn't hold.

Have those two lesbians I posted about earlier in this thread been charged with a hate crime? If not, then explain why.

I repeat, to me it's the crime that matters, not the motive. I'm not talking about the differences in the severity of the crimes. If a straight person calls someone a fag, and commits 1st degree murder, I don't want that person judged any differently than if someone called someone else an asshole, and commits 1st degree murder. My whole point is equal treatment for all Americans under the law. Not what the statures say about hate crimes.

And YOU

Please stop distorting this whole post wiht your anti Obama bull.
We get IT.

You don't like the President. HOORAY.

[trish]

Belial writes:

Is this poor (heterosexual) woman's life not as valuable as a gay person's? That her murderers should receive a lesser punishment? And then I get accused of a lack of empathy. Sheesh.

You covered that point. I just answered it. I guess you didn't notice. Let me repeat.

Trish:


The indiscriminate murder of people within a population, committed for the sole reason that the victims belong to that population, is NOT ONLY murder but [ALSO] a crime of violence against the population. The judgment against the perpetrator needs to reflect the weight of BOTH the MURDER per se and the VIOLENCE AGAINST THE COMMUNITY.

I added the capitals this time around to clarify that the crime of murder carries equal weight regardless of the ethnicity or group to which the victim belongs. But hate crimes involve an additional offense which must also weigh against the offender. You can't just shrug your shoulders and say we covered this ground. A proper reply responds to the points made against your contrived perspective.

[edits are in square braces]

[SarahG]

[b]Have those two lesbians I posted about earlier in this thread been charged with a hate crime? If not, then explain why.

Selective enforcement. Its not the laws that are the problem, but the asshats we have as DAs & ADAs who refuse to see people charged & convicted of the proper crimes when doing so would be prudent.

Our legal system is filled with double standards because of selective enforcement of policy, just about everywhere you look you'll find someone is getting a raw deal.

Want an example that doesn't have to do with hate crimes? I can think of plenty.. for instance when parents leave their kids in hot cars so they can die. Fathers almost never do time for that, and simply get slap on the wrist punishments for "not knowing better." But when its the mother who does it, she is far more likely to do jail time, and significant jail time for the exact same crime.

Or to use another example, look at all those female teachers who got caught being pedophiles and how differently THOSE cases have been handled.

Or how about all those cops who get away with tasing people who hadn't done anything wrong. If I went around electrocuting everyone in public who is simply rude to me, I'd end up in prison in a hurry.

The system can have the best laws in the world, it doesn't matter if juries, judges, and DA's refuse to use blind justice in action.

[Belial]

I guess I should post one last thing here since I opened this topic, feel free to continue.

BUT, the POINT I was making, was made (which some understood as HOOKED ON PHONICS clear as it was, and others decided to distort it to promote their own agendas). Politicians who vote agasint LGBT rights yet are caught in a gay act or are in the closet, are ASSHOLE hypocrites whose crime is beyond words.

It would be like Hitler himself, being Jewish.

As simplistic as that may sound, the truth is sometimes very SIMPLE.

This thread took a life of it's own when the Obama haters turned this into something that it was not. I do feel the President will make cosiderable change in LGBT legislation within his term in office. Only time will tell.

I think the right wingers, Republicans, Obama bashers on this board who do not support LGBT rights, or hate crime legislation for LGBT people, or rights for the community are as very much in denial and as hypocritical.

This issue extends beyond any political party. The Repulican party has taken it upon itself to promote and anti LGBT agenda and platform. That is there choice as a party. If that is what you want to lay with and believe in then that is FINE.

BUT dont' come here and enjoy transsexual women and be anti-trans rights. This is a HARD life. Trans-women are subject to plenty of violence,
discrimination, and are murdered for being trans. We suffer plenty to be who we are and live how we do. No we don't want any special treatment, we just wanted to be accepted and be given the same protections, rights anyone else has.

How DARE those of you who do not support OUR RIGHTS think it's OK to enjoy us and our lifestyle yet deny us of our basic rights as citezens?

SHAME ON YOU. Really. I have absolutely NO respect for you and neither do ANY of the girls.

None of us are any better than the other- wether you are a prostitute, or a doctor ,we all deserve protection under the law . And that goes the SAME for the MEN. You can be in the closet about liking trans- but don't fucking sit there and jerk your dick to the porn, suck a tranny dick in private, take it in the ass (whatever you want to do) and feel you can FURTHER objectify us by thinking we don't deserve to be treated as people legally or socialy.

If you do- FUCK YOU. Really, because sometimes A FUCK YOU, is all that will do.

I knew u wanted to lay all the blame squarely on one side in ur opening propaganda post. But it wasn't wrong to bring up Obama's hypocrisy on this issue, even if he is allegedly straight. Bottom-line: He failed ur "Community" on gay marriage. Of which i am completely indifferent of, since I don't care about marriage of any kind. Keep the faith, I'm sure he'll stop waffling @ a time of his choosing. :lol:

[Belial]

Belial writes:

Is this poor (heterosexual) woman's life not as valuable as a gay person's? That her murderers should receive a lesser punishment? And then I get accused of a lack of empathy. Sheesh.

You covered that point. I just answered it. I guess you didn't notice. Let me repeat.

Trish:


The indiscriminate murder of people within a population, committed for the sole reason that the victims belong to that population, is NOT ONLY murder but ASLO a crime of violence against the population. The judgment against the perpetrator needs to reflect the weight of BOTH the MURDER per se and the VIOLENCE AGAINST THE COMMUNITY.

I added the capitals this time around to clarify that the crime of murder carries equal weight regardless of the ethnicity or group to which the victim belongs. But hate crimes involve an additional offense which must also weigh against the offender. You can't just shrug your shoulders and say we covered this ground. A proper reply responds to the points made against your contrived perspective.

It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other. This is NOT the American way, nor TRUE equality for everyone. And u still haven't given ur opinion as to why the two lesbians weren't charged with a hate crime.

[SarahG]

It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other. This is NOT the American way, nor TRUE equality for everyone. And u still haven't given ur opinion as to why the two lesbians weren't charged with a hate crime.

No its not, thats like saying the law doesn't value pedestrians killed by drunk drivers when people get more time for killing their ex's.

The reason why motive matters is because its evidence of what the person was intending to do. A hate crime is a worse crime because it is an act of terror, aimed at causing a specific group to fear for their lives.

Like that black guy that those white supremacists dragged by the bumper of their pickup for miles, and then dumped the body in front of a historic black cemetery so the black community would get the message. That wasn't a simple case of someone killing someone because they cheated on them, or because they had money that they wanted... but a case of trying to bully an entire group of people with terror into "knowing their place."

Hate crimes are worse because the system can't operate with people thinking they can run around pulling that crap. It's not just the single victim that matters but what the cost is on the entire community.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I guess I should post one last thing here since I opened this topic, feel free to continue.

BUT, the POINT I was making, was made (which some understood as HOOKED ON PHONICS clear as it was, and others decided to distort it to promote their own agendas). Politicians who vote agasint LGBT rights yet are caught in a gay act or are in the closet, are ASSHOLE hypocrites whose crime is beyond words.

It would be like Hitler himself, being Jewish.

As simplistic as that may sound, the truth is sometimes very SIMPLE.

This thread took a life of it's own when the Obama haters turned this into something that it was not. I do feel the President will make cosiderable change in LGBT legislation within his term in office. Only time will tell.

I think the right wingers, Republicans, Obama bashers on this board who do not support LGBT rights, or hate crime legislation for LGBT people, or rights for the community are as very much in denial and as hypocritical.

This issue extends beyond any political party. The Repulican party has taken it upon itself to promote and anti LGBT agenda and platform. That is there choice as a party. If that is what you want to lay with and believe in then that is FINE.

BUT dont' come here and enjoy transsexual women and be anti-trans rights. This is a HARD life. Trans-women are subject to plenty of violence,
discrimination, and are murdered for being trans. We suffer plenty to be who we are and live how we do. No we don't want any special treatment, we just wanted to be accepted and be given the same protections, rights anyone else has.

How DARE those of you who do not support OUR RIGHTS think it's OK to enjoy us and our lifestyle yet deny us of our basic rights as citezens?

SHAME ON YOU. Really. I have absolutely NO respect for you and neither do ANY of the girls.

None of us are any better than the other- wether you are a prostitute, or a doctor ,we all deserve protection under the law . And that goes the SAME for the MEN. You can be in the closet about liking trans- but don't fucking sit there and jerk your dick to the porn, suck a tranny dick in private, take it in the ass (whatever you want to do) and feel you can FURTHER objectify us by thinking we don't deserve to be treated as people legally or socialy.

If you do- FUCK YOU. Really, because sometimes A FUCK YOU, is all that will do.

I knew u wanted to lay all the blame squarely on one side in ur opening propaganda post. But it wasn't wrong to bring up Obama's hypocrisy on this issue, even if he is allegedly straight. Bottom-line: He failed ur "Community" on gay marriage. Of which i am completely indifferent of, since I don't care about marriage of any kind. Keep the faith, I'm sure he'll stop waffling @ a time of his choosing. :lol:

"ur community"- you are HERE aren't you? Excluding yourself much??
Unless by some miraculous way of selective thinking, you believe that your attraction to transsexual women somehow excludes YOU from the ts community. No matter how small of a party you may play in it- YOU ARE A PART of it, like it or not. As an admirer, consumer-WHATEVER.

Time to air our your closet dear. The moths are eating at your brain.

And you IGNORED in my post AGAIN (what Ihave been saying all along) I said this has nothing to do with parties. The Republicans HAVE CHOSEN to not inclide JLBGT, gender identity protection in their platform. The Democrats HAVE.

That is NOT ONE sided it is PLAIN FACT.

It is a FACT that all these guys who have voted agasint LGBT issues and have been caught with their pants down are ALL republican.

[trish]

It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other.

Again Belial merely restates his position instead of defending it. I assume you can’t defend it. I’ve argued that a hate crime involves two offenses, a murder and an act of violence against a community. An argument against that position must show why there is no second offense that requires punishment. Have you argued that? No. You haven’t even yet acknowledged that aspect of the argument. Try again.

[Belial]

Lets see; Rogers, trish, Nicole, Felicia, Allanah, and now SarahG? That's a lot of people to have to debate with, simultaneously. lol




It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other. This is NOT the American way, nor TRUE equality for everyone. And u still haven't given ur opinion as to why the two lesbians weren't charged with a hate crime.

No its not, thats like saying the law doesn't value pedestrians killed by drunk drivers when people get more time for killing their ex's.

The difference is that there is no intention by the drunk driver to kill the pedestrian in most cases. The Killing of the ex is likely 1st or 2nd degree, and the killing of the Pedestrian is likely manslaughter. I get it, but that's not at all what I was arguing.

Let me try a different example. A man murders a GG, because he thinks that she's a cunt, and he HATES her. An alternative first example could be: If a man HATES another man,( both hetero) and murders him because he thinks he's an asshole. IMO, these murders should be judged equally, to the murdering of a gay man, for being gay. If not, then one life is being valued higher than the others, and that's NOT equality.

We can go round and round on this, but it won't change my mind. Just so u know, I am an advocate for the Death Penalty. And if it were up to me, all three of those murderers listed in my examples would have gotten Death. For 1st degree murder, and nothing else. Those two gay men who murdered that woman in the UK, (had they been in the US) would also be put to death once they were found guilty. Again for 1st degree murder. That's equal justice.

[Belial]

It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other.

Again Belial merely restates his position instead of defending it. I assume you can’t defend it. I’ve argued that a hate crime involves two offenses, a murder and an act of violence against a community. An argument against that position must show why there is no second offense that requires punishment. Have you argued that? No. You haven’t even yet acknowledged that aspect of the argument. Try again.

Why weren't the two lesbians charged with a hate crime?
Also, do you think they should have been charged with a hate crime?
If ur answer is 'no' to the 2nd question, then why don't u think so?

[rockabilly]

Now i want waffles , thanks alot.

[Belial]

I guess I should post one last thing here since I opened this topic, feel free to continue.

BUT, the POINT I was making, was made (which some understood as HOOKED ON PHONICS clear as it was, and others decided to distort it to promote their own agendas). Politicians who vote agasint LGBT rights yet are caught in a gay act or are in the closet, are ASSHOLE hypocrites whose crime is beyond words.

It would be like Hitler himself, being Jewish.

As simplistic as that may sound, the truth is sometimes very SIMPLE.

This thread took a life of it's own when the Obama haters turned this into something that it was not. I do feel the President will make cosiderable change in LGBT legislation within his term in office. Only time will tell.

I think the right wingers, Republicans, Obama bashers on this board who do not support LGBT rights, or hate crime legislation for LGBT people, or rights for the community are as very much in denial and as hypocritical.

This issue extends beyond any political party. The Repulican party has taken it upon itself to promote and anti LGBT agenda and platform. That is there choice as a party. If that is what you want to lay with and believe in then that is FINE.

BUT dont' come here and enjoy transsexual women and be anti-trans rights. This is a HARD life. Trans-women are subject to plenty of violence,
discrimination, and are murdered for being trans. We suffer plenty to be who we are and live how we do. No we don't want any special treatment, we just wanted to be accepted and be given the same protections, rights anyone else has.

How DARE those of you who do not support OUR RIGHTS think it's OK to enjoy us and our lifestyle yet deny us of our basic rights as citezens?

SHAME ON YOU. Really. I have absolutely NO respect for you and neither do ANY of the girls.

None of us are any better than the other- wether you are a prostitute, or a doctor ,we all deserve protection under the law . And that goes the SAME for the MEN. You can be in the closet about liking trans- but don't fucking sit there and jerk your dick to the porn, suck a tranny dick in private, take it in the ass (whatever you want to do) and feel you can FURTHER objectify us by thinking we don't deserve to be treated as people legally or socialy.

If you do- FUCK YOU. Really, because sometimes A FUCK YOU, is all that will do.

I knew u wanted to lay all the blame squarely on one side in ur opening propaganda post. But it wasn't wrong to bring up Obama's hypocrisy on this issue, even if he is allegedly straight. Bottom-line: He failed ur "Community" on gay marriage. Of which i am completely indifferent of, since I don't care about marriage of any kind. Keep the faith, I'm sure he'll stop waffling @ a time of his choosing. :lol:

"ur community"- you are HERE aren't you? Excluding yourself much??
Unless by some miraculous way of selective thinking, you believe that your attraction to transsexual women somehow excludes YOU from the ts community. No matter how small of a party you may play in it- YOU ARE A PART of it, like it or not. As an admirer, consumer-WHATEVER.

Time to air our your closet dear. The moths are eating at your brain.

And you IGNORED in my post AGAIN (what Ihave been saying all along) I said this has nothing to do with parties. The Republicans HAVE CHOSEN to not inclide JLBGT, gender identity protection in their platform. The Democrats HAVE.

That is NOT ONE sided it is PLAIN FACT.

It is a FACT that all these guys who have voted agasint LGBT issues and have been caught with their pants down are ALL republican.

Again, u're completely ignoring Obama's failure to act on gay marriage.
He is currently the most powerful politician in the country, after all. His failures to support gay marriage after promising he would, are far more damaging to ur "community's" cause, than anything Senator Craig ever did.

Please don't take this personally Allanah, I'm only here to be the voice of reason. :cool:

[SarahG]

Let me try a different example. A man murders a GG, because he thinks that she's a cunt, and he HATES her. An alternative first example could be: If a man HATES another man,( both hetero) and murders him because he thinks he's an asshole. IMO, these murders should be judged equally, to the murdering of a gay man, for being gay. If not, then one life is being valued higher than the other, and that's NOT equality.

Only those crimes are not equal in their effect, because the straight guy killing another straight guy because he's a jerk isn't going to leave all the straight guys of the country shaking in their boots about whether or not they'll be next. Not in the sense that's true when we're dealing with hate crimes where the intention is to inflict fear in addition to murder.

Think of it another way- there is a reason why its a "worse" crime to assassinate politicians. A life is just a life, right? Well when someone kills a politician to cause political changes, they're doing more then killing someone- they're also forcing the system into a direction it shouldn't have to go in.

The mastermind, whoever it was, of 9/11 killed more then 3,000 odd people- but inflicted terror as a mechanism for change. Thus its not just ~3k charges of murder that would be applicable, but additional charges relating to terrorism and so forth.

There's nothing wholly unusual with adding charges depending on additional effects of a criminal act. As long as our country's been a country this has been the norm, just look at the reaction to Frick's murder attempt. Berkman had the book thrown at him. He only tried to kill 1 person, in one melee... but they charged him with what, a dozen different crimes by the time it was all said & done?

[trish]

Again you refuse to address the argument, because you can’t. So you want to change the subject. You said


It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other.

And I replied that laws against hate crime do no such thing. Instead…


…a hate crime involves two offenses, a murder and an act of violence against a community. An argument against that position must show why there is no second offense that requires punishment. Have you argued that? No. You haven’t even yet acknowledged that aspect of the argument.

You made your bed. Now lie in it. Defend your statement or concede it's mistaken.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I guess I should post one last thing here since I opened this topic, feel free to continue.

BUT, the POINT I was making, was made (which some understood as HOOKED ON PHONICS clear as it was, and others decided to distort it to promote their own agendas). Politicians who vote agasint LGBT rights yet are caught in a gay act or are in the closet, are ASSHOLE hypocrites whose crime is beyond words.

It would be like Hitler himself, being Jewish.

As simplistic as that may sound, the truth is sometimes very SIMPLE.

This thread took a life of it's own when the Obama haters turned this into something that it was not. I do feel the President will make cosiderable change in LGBT legislation within his term in office. Only time will tell.

I think the right wingers, Republicans, Obama bashers on this board who do not support LGBT rights, or hate crime legislation for LGBT people, or rights for the community are as very much in denial and as hypocritical.

This issue extends beyond any political party. The Repulican party has taken it upon itself to promote and anti LGBT agenda and platform. That is there choice as a party. If that is what you want to lay with and believe in then that is FINE.

BUT dont' come here and enjoy transsexual women and be anti-trans rights. This is a HARD life. Trans-women are subject to plenty of violence,
discrimination, and are murdered for being trans. We suffer plenty to be who we are and live how we do. No we don't want any special treatment, we just wanted to be accepted and be given the same protections, rights anyone else has.

How DARE those of you who do not support OUR RIGHTS think it's OK to enjoy us and our lifestyle yet deny us of our basic rights as citezens?

SHAME ON YOU. Really. I have absolutely NO respect for you and neither do ANY of the girls.

None of us are any better than the other- wether you are a prostitute, or a doctor ,we all deserve protection under the law . And that goes the SAME for the MEN. You can be in the closet about liking trans- but don't fucking sit there and jerk your dick to the porn, suck a tranny dick in private, take it in the ass (whatever you want to do) and feel you can FURTHER objectify us by thinking we don't deserve to be treated as people legally or socialy.

If you do- FUCK YOU. Really, because sometimes A FUCK YOU, is all that will do.

I knew u wanted to lay all the blame squarely on one side in ur opening propaganda post. But it wasn't wrong to bring up Obama's hypocrisy on this issue, even if he is allegedly straight. Bottom-line: He failed ur "Community" on gay marriage. Of which i am completely indifferent of, since I don't care about marriage of any kind. Keep the faith, I'm sure he'll stop waffling @ a time of his choosing. :lol:

"ur community"- you are HERE aren't you? Excluding yourself much??
Unless by some miraculous way of selective thinking, you believe that your attraction to transsexual women somehow excludes YOU from the ts community. No matter how small of a party you may play in it- YOU ARE A PART of it, like it or not. As an admirer, consumer-WHATEVER.

Time to air our your closet dear. The moths are eating at your brain.

And you IGNORED in my post AGAIN (what Ihave been saying all along) I said this has nothing to do with parties. The Republicans HAVE CHOSEN to not inclide JLBGT, gender identity protection in their platform. The Democrats HAVE.

That is NOT ONE sided it is PLAIN FACT.

It is a FACT that all these guys who have voted agasint LGBT issues and have been caught with their pants down are ALL republican.

Again, u're completely ignoring Obama's failure to act on gay marriage.
He is currently the most powerful politician in the country, after all. His failures to support gay marriage after promising he would, are far more damaging to ur "community's" cause, than anything Senator Craig ever did.

Please don't take this personally Allanah, I'm only here to be the voice of reason. :cool:

Deluded thinking you mean.
Please don't even bother, it's annoying to continue when all you are doing
is taking things I said and twisting them to your own advantage.

No mas.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself...

... because you're a wuss who's afraid that your homophobic buddies would label you the fag. Then you'd be the statistic of a REAL hate crime. Why lie about it? 8)

U're overdue for an Exorcism, young lady. :cool:

You're overdue to get laid. Bend over, and come to mama.

[Nicole Dupre]

Lets see; Rogers, trish, Nicole, Felicia, Allanah, and now SarahG? That's a lot of people to have to debate with, simultaneously. lol




It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other. This is NOT the American way, nor TRUE equality for everyone. And u still haven't given ur opinion as to why the two lesbians weren't charged with a hate crime.

No its not, thats like saying the law doesn't value pedestrians killed by drunk drivers when people get more time for killing their ex's.

The difference is that there is no intention by the drunk driver to kill the pedestrian in most cases. The Killing of the ex is likely 1st or 2nd degree, and the killing of the Pedestrian is likely manslaughter. I get it, but that's not at all what I was arguing.

Let me try a different example. A man murders a GG, because he thinks that she's a cunt, and he HATES her. An alternative first example could be: If a man HATES another man,( both hetero) and murders him because he thinks he's an asshole. IMO, these murders should be judged equally, to the murdering of a gay man, for being gay. If not, then one life is being valued higher than the others, and that's NOT equality.

We can go round and round on this, but it won't change my mind. Just so u know, I am an advocate for the Death Penalty. And if it were up to me, all three of those murderers listed in my examples would have gotten Death. For 1st degree murder, and nothing else. Those two gay men who murdered that woman in the UK, (had they been in the US) would also be put to death once they were found guilty. Again for 1st degree murder. That's equal justice.

It's not a debate. You're an off-topic broken record who's in denial about your own sexuality. If you were honest about who you were, you'd have more on your mind than this nonsense.

Do your friends who "know a gay person" also know that you spend so much time on a forum that contains pics of chicks with dicks? Does your boss? Does your brother-in-law? Does your wife? Because, in the eyes of most straight people, you're not only gay, but you're also a closeted coward who's trying to mask an inferiority complex with a superiority complex. After witnessing you hijack this thread, I'd also have assume that you have a tiny cock and/or your mom didn't give you much love. Maybe your dad beat and humiliated you as well. Care to share more about the real you, or are you going to change the subject again to suit your fragile ego?

[Felicia Katt]

In Belial's world, gays are better off than straights and enjoy equal rights and full protection under the law. In his world, Obama is more to blame for not repealing or reversing quickly enough all the discriminatory laws he never voted for than all the closeted Republicans who did vote for them. In his world, white people and straight people are the real victims of hate crimes and discrimination by gays.

This is the real world, however, not Belial's and here he hasn't offered one fact or one cogent argument to support any of his varying points. Since he can't or won't do so, its pointless to address them, or him any further. Its too bad, because accepting some reality would really do him a world of good.


FK

[rockabilly]

Belial lives in the matrix.

[SarahG]

Belial lives in the matrix.

They never did say what happens if you take both pills at once.

[eclipsemint]

I'm just glad I never posted several pictures of myself...

... because you're a wuss who's afraid that your homophobic buddies would label you the fag. Then you'd be the statistic of a REAL hate crime. Why lie about it? 8)

U're overdue for an Exorcism, young lady. :cool:

You're overdue to get laid. Bend over, and come to mama.

Hello, can you help me, I'm due to get laid, and I'm looking for the line to get laid by Nicole?

(Nah, only kidding, I'm really in the line for getting released today.)

[Felicia Katt]

Actually the Obama admin compared homosexuality to incest & pedophilia while defending DOMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWlVYKTvNk

They did do that in an earlier brief, but not in the directly negative way that some in the Blogosphere reported it. Here is a section directly from the brief

"the First and Second Restatements of Conflict of Laws recognize that State courts may refuse to give effect to a marriage, or to certain incidents of a marriage, that contravene the forum State's policy…And the courts have widely held that certain marriages performed elsewhere need not be given effect, because they conflicted with the public policy of the forum.” They cited case law decisions to support that principle of law, including Catalano v. Catalano (marriage of uncle to niece) Wilkins v. Zelichowski (marriage of 16-year-old female) and re Mortenson's Estate, (marriage of first cousins). The only comparison they made was a legal one, not a moral one.

A Justice Department spokeswoman said that President Obama “has said he wants to see a legislative repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act because it prevents LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) couples from being granted equal rights and benefits," she said. "However, until Congress passes legislation repealing the law, the administration will continue to defend the statute when it is challenged in the justice system."

Later briefs were changed to better represent the Administrations real position on the issue and include the following language

With respect to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal. Consistent with the rule of law, however, the Department of Justice has long followed the practice of defending federal statutes as long as reasonable arguments can be made in support of their constitutionality, even if the Department disagrees with a particular statute as a policy matter, as it does here

They made a mistake, took ownership of it, and rectified it. When did that ever happen with Bush? The Obama administration hasn't done enough, quickly enough , but they have done more in 8 months than the previous administration did in 8 years.

FK

[rockabilly]

Belial lives in the matrix.

They never did say what happens if you take both pills at once.
I took half of each. " I'm freakin out man! "
" The snozzberries taste like snozzberries. "


I imagine it would be the same effect as mixing pop rocks and coke .... your intestines would explode.

Mikey likes it!

[BluegrassCat]

In Belial's world, gays are better off than straights and enjoy equal rights and full protection under the law. In his world, Obama is more to blame for not repealing or reversing quickly enough all the discriminatory laws he never voted for than all the closeted Republicans who did vote for them. In his world, white people and straight people are the real victims of hate crimes and discrimination by gays.

This is the real world, however, not Belial's and here he hasn't offered one fact or one cogent argument to support any of his varying points. Since he can't or won't do so, its pointless to address them, or him any further. Its too bad, because accepting some reality would really do him a world of good.


FK

Perfectly said.

[Nicole Dupre]

Hello, can you help me, I'm due to get laid, and I'm looking for the line to get laid by Nicole?

(Nah, only kidding, I'm really in the line for getting released today.)

Well hopefully I'll be worth the wait, whatever you're UP for. ;)

[rockabilly]

I thought i was in the right line ... but turned out it was the line for Star Wars in 3D. :shrug:

[eclipsemint]

I want to see Final Destination in 3D. Looks like fun.

I hear that sex with Nicole is also a 3D experience, though, so I think I'll go with that one.

[Nicole Dupre]

I thought i was in the right line ... but turned out it was the line for Star Wars in 3D. :shrug:

I could've sworn your ticket was for a love story. However, my projector is partial to action, and PG ratings are generally not my thing. But it's a big multiplex. Pace your popcorn, and I'm sure eventually you'll find your flick. ;)

[rockabilly]

I thought i was in the right line ... but turned out it was the line for Star Wars in 3D. :shrug:

I could've sworn your ticket was for a love story. However, my projector is partial to action, and PG ratings are generally not my thing. But it's a big multiplex. Pace your popcorn, and I'm sure eventually you'll find your flick. ;)
Sadly the "love story" has no seats left. ... but "The Virgin Suicides" is playing.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

In Belial's world, gays are better off than straights and enjoy equal rights and full protection under the law. In his world, Obama is more to blame for not repealing or reversing quickly enough all the discriminatory laws he never voted for than all the closeted Republicans who did vote for them. In his world, white people and straight people are the real victims of hate crimes and discrimination by gays.

This is the real world, however, not Belial's and here he hasn't offered one fact or one cogent argument to support any of his varying points. Since he can't or won't do so, its pointless to address them, or him any further. Its too bad, because accepting some reality would really do him a world of good.


FK

Perfectly said.

INDEED.

[SarahG]

Actually the Obama admin compared homosexuality to incest & pedophilia while defending DOMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWlVYKTvNk

They did do that in an earlier brief, but not in the directly negative way that some in the Blogosphere reported it. Here is a section directly from the brief

"the First and Second Restatements of Conflict of Laws recognize that State courts may refuse to give effect to a marriage, or to certain incidents of a marriage, that contravene the forum State's policy…And the courts have widely held that certain marriages performed elsewhere need not be given effect, because they conflicted with the public policy of the forum.” They cited case law decisions to support that principle of law, including Catalano v. Catalano (marriage of uncle to niece) Wilkins v. Zelichowski (marriage of 16-year-old female) and re Mortenson's Estate, (marriage of first cousins). The only comparison they made was a legal one, not a moral one.

A Justice Department spokeswoman said that President Obama “has said he wants to see a legislative repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act because it prevents LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) couples from being granted equal rights and benefits," she said. "However, until Congress passes legislation repealing the law, the administration will continue to defend the statute when it is challenged in the justice system."

Later briefs were changed to better represent the Administrations real position on the issue and include the following language

With respect to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal. Consistent with the rule of law, however, the Department of Justice has long followed the practice of defending federal statutes as long as reasonable arguments can be made in support of their constitutionality, even if the Department disagrees with a particular statute as a policy matter, as it does here


Wow, that's not the impression that the non-fox news channels gave over this at all. :shock:

I expected better than that from msnbc. Sigh, when will we get a news network that's RELIABLE? :(

Thanks for correcting me though, I was off base apparently.

[Felicia Katt]

Wow, that's not the impression that the non-fox news channels gave over this at all. :shock:

I expected better than that from msnbc. Sigh, when will we get a news network that's RELIABLE? :(

Thanks for correcting me though, I was off base apparently.
You weren't offbase, just swept along a bit by those choosing to blown it out of proportion.

The Justice Department was a little tone deaf when they did cite cases with other illegal types of marriage as support for the a law permitting States to treat marriages legal elsewhere as illegal there. But they never advocated same sex marriages were anything other than legally similar, which, sadly, they still are in most states.

Their subsequent briefs are more harmonious with their real position.

FK

[Nicole Dupre]

Since he can't or won't do so, its pointless to address them, or him any further.

Who were we talking about again?

Oh, right... the homo.

She must be busy at the moment, acting "straight" in front of her family and friend(s). Perhaps a little macho posturing; cleaning her guns, spouting off about who deserves to die, and maybe a little gay-bashing just for good measure.

Oh, well. There's one in every crowd, just waiting to get caught with a cock in their throat in a deserted parking lot or rest area...

:sleep

[Rogers]

Wrong again. U're talking about the CRIME of rape. There is nothing wrong with rape role-play between two consenting adults. Especially when 'safe words' are used and respected. BDSM role-play uses the same type of 'safe words'.

Other forums I post @ are loaded with genetic women who enjoy rape role-playing. I know of @ least two transsexuals on this forum, who also enjoy it, and have PMed me to ask for site addresses. Because they liked certain pics that I had. Out of respect for their privacy, I won't ever mention their names. I will say that one of them is very popular amongst the fan-boys of this forum. U'd be surprised.

U're social conservatism is still amusing. :cool:

Ah, so you're into "roleplay". :wink: BDSM isn't forced anything. Does snuff and dolcett "do it" for you too?


:sigh: I ALMOST feel sorry for u here. So abbreviating a long username = I must be him? U want to keep believing ur own mistake, I can't do anything to prevent it. I'm not that person, but go ahead and believe anything u want. There's no worse person to lie to, than urself. :idea:

At the risk of being accused a "stalker" again, there has been few right-wing posters on this forum that have been able to keep a debate going for very long. Add to that the constant twisting of their opponents words and meanings, the constant use of bold-type, the frequent use of illogical fallacies and that stupid "cool" emoticon, and there is a very high probability that you are indeed WMC.

U think that UR clever but UR not. 8)

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Here is a little more fueo for the fire

53 House GOPers want Keving Jennings fired for promoting a 'homosexual agenda'.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/53-house-gopers-fire-kevin-jennings-over-his-pro-homosexual-agenda.php?ref=mp

INCREDIBLE

[Felicia Katt]

Here is a little more fueo for the fire

53 House GOPers want Keving Jennings fired for promoting a 'homosexual agenda'.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/53-house-gopers-fire-kevin-jennings-over-his-pro-homosexual-agenda.php?ref=mp

INCREDIBLE
More factual background to this homophobic witch hunt

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=3108

FK

[Bmoredominican]

hypocrisy is the root of humanity...capitalism/charity, racism/multiculturalism, etc...

[Belial]

With respect to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal. Consistent with the rule of law, however, the Department of Justice has long followed the practice of defending federal statutes as long as reasonable arguments can be made in support of their constitutionality, even if the Department disagrees with a particular statute as a policy matter, as it does here

The Administration does not support DOMA, they only defend it. lol



They made a mistake, took ownership of it, and rectified it. When did that ever happen with Bush? The Obama administration hasn't done enough, quickly enough , but they have done more in 8 months than the previous administration did in 8 years.


Bush is no longer in power. And He isn't the one who made promises to ur "community" the way Obama did. Now that Obama is in power, he's proven to be weak on this issue.

[Belial]

Why weren't the two lesbians charged with a hate crime?
Also, do you think they should have been charged with a hate crime?
If ur answer is 'no' to the 2nd question, then why don't u think so?

Still waiting for an answer trish.

[Belial]

Let me try a different example. A man murders a GG, because he thinks that she's a cunt, and he HATES her. An alternative first example could be: If a man HATES another man,( both hetero) and murders him because he thinks he's an asshole. IMO, these murders should be judged equally, to the murdering of a gay man, for being gay. If not, then one life is being valued higher than the other, and that's NOT equality.

Only those crimes are not equal in their effect, because the straight guy killing another straight guy because he's a jerk isn't going to leave all the straight guys of the country shaking in their boots about whether or not they'll be next. The point is equality, Sarah. The idea of all of us living equally under the same laws. And no one can know who is or isn't scared in any given group. A viscous murderer is a vicious murderer. And heteros aren't immune from fear. Neither are straight women


Think of it another way- there is a reason why its a "worse" crime to assassinate politicians. A life is just a life, right? Well when someone kills a politician to cause political changes, they're doing more then killing someone- they're also forcing the system into a direction it shouldn't have to go in. Sirhan Sirhan got off with life imprisonment, instead of the death penalty. Hinckley (sp?) shot a President and is already out. Fromme attempted to shoot a President and is out. I don't see where any of them, were punished more harshly, than if the Victims had not been important politicians.

[hippifried]

With respect to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal. Consistent with the rule of law, however, the Department of Justice has long followed the practice of defending federal statutes as long as reasonable arguments can be made in support of their constitutionality, even if the Department disagrees with a particular statute as a policy matter, as it does here

The Administration does not support DOMA, they only defend it. lol
Once an Act of Congress is passed & signed by a President, it's the law of the land until something happens to change that fact. The Solicitor General is the nation's lawyer. It's always his/her job to defend the laws of the United States, irrespective of the politics.

Of course I wouldn't expect trainees from the Rush Beck parrot farm to understand how anything actually works.

[Felicia Katt]

Sirhan Sirhan got off with life imprisonment, instead of the death penalty. Hinckley (sp?) shot a President and is already out. Fromme attempted to shoot a President and is out. I don't see where any of them, were punished more harshly, than if the Victims had not been important politicians.
You can't see anything when you turn a blind eye to the facts.

Sirhan was sentenced to death in a gas chamber but his sentence was later commuted to life in prison due to the California Supreme Court's decision invalidating all pending capital cases with death sentences imposed in California prior to 1972. He is still in prison now.

Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity. He spent 17 years in a psychiatric hospital before he was allowed to leave for brief supervised visits with his parents. He is still institutionalized but does get longer furloughs now.

Fromme pointed a .45 Colt semi-automatic pistol at Ford but there were no rounds in the firing chamber. She subsequently told a newspaper that she had deliberately ejected the cartridge in her weapon's chamber before leaving home that morning, and investigators later found a cartridge in her bathroom.

She was convicted of the attempted assassination of the president and received a life sentence under a law, prompted by the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, which made attempted presidential assassinations a federal crime punishable by a maximum sentence of life in prison. She spent 34 years in prison before getting paroled.


FK

[Felicia Katt]

Once an Act of Congress is passed & signed by a President, it's the law of the land until something happens to change that fact. The Solicitor General is the nation's lawyer. It's always his/her job to defend the laws of the United States, irrespective of the politics.

Of course I wouldn't expect trainees from the Rush Beck parrot farm to understand how anything actually works.
He understands. Its clear as day in the section from the brief that he just chooses to ignore. He hates Obama and wants to deflect attention from all the hateful hypocritical people who author and support and campaign on the laws that the justice department now has the duty to defend, even if they have to hold their noses to do so.

FK

[trish]

Still waiting for an answer trish.

My answer to what? To your diversion?? I asked you three times to answer a specific charge which you evidently are incapable of doing.


Again you refuse to address the argument, because you can’t. So you want to change the subject. You said


It changes nothing. When a murder is labeled a hate crime, and is punished more severely, than if it wasn't, then It shows that the law is valuing one life over the other.

And I replied that laws against hate crime do no such thing. Instead…


…a hate crime involves two offenses, a murder and an act of violence against a community. An argument against that position must show why there is no second offense that requires punishment. Have you argued that? No. You haven’t even yet acknowledged that aspect of the argument.

You made your bed. Now lie in it. Defend your statement or concede it's mistaken.

Since you still refuse to answer, perhaps you concede the point but are too embarrassed to admit it. :oops:

So do you, Belial, walk the streets in fear of being assaulted by homosexuals? Is the danger and the threat to your life and limb, exactly the same as the threat against gays? Are you shy around the girls because you’re afraid one of them might be lesbian who’ll cut your balls off for an untoward advance? Of course not. And not because you’re a big strong guy either. You’re afraid of none of those things because there just is no general threat against heterosexuals. There is no long standing problem of homosexuals threatening, accosting and assaulting heterosexuals. Indeed, we all know, and statistics show that the opposite is the case.
If you want heterosexuals to be covered by hate crime legislation, then I suggest you demonstrate to lawmakers that crime against straights by gays and lesbians is a long-standing and intransigent problem in your nation or province. You need to demonstrate to the lawmakers, not to me, that indiscriminate murders of straights by LGBT have shaken the straight community and driven it underground and into the closet. That each murder entails collateral damage that propagates throughout the straight community and is experienced as fear of [persecution] and fear for one’s life and limb. If you can demonstrate that the “St. Louis Lesbians” did all that to the straight community, not by themselves of course, but because of the social conditions in St. Louis and elsewhere around the nation, then I say yes, charge them with a hate crime. If you can demonstrate all that then I would have no particular problem with charging them with a hate crime; except for the legal problem that it’s not recognized as a hate crime under current law. If they committed murder, not in defense against assault or in defense against rape (as the women claim) but merely because the victim was heterosexual, then it’s okay by me if you want to try and get the legislature to call it hate crime. I suggest you form a straight organization and take it up with your state legislature or in your case (if you’re Canadian) the legislature of your province. But I warn you, it will be a tough row to plow because you simply cannot demonstrate a long-standing, intransigent problem that requires such legislation.

[edits in square brackets]

[BluegrassCat]

It's really not fair watching people with reason and facts on one side argue with someone who's angry, confused and ill-informed.

[brickcitybrother]

I've Tivo'd Outrage and am about to watch it. However, before I do, I understand what exactly you're saying.