TS MODEL UNION - POLL - would you be interested?

[LibertyHarkness]

OK a poll for the TS models .. following on from Morgans thread how many would actually seriously consider being invovled with a TS Model union ...

i for one would, even Seanchai from his producer perspective agreed this would be a good thing potentially to work with .

[GroobySteven]

Damn ... what did I do!

One thing you might want to do, instead of thinking it as a "Union" per se, thing of it as more of a co-operative modeling agency that isn't set out to make a profit but to enable the members to work within set guidelines and also for a place for producers to come to, to get talent.

There would have to be some sort of fees to separate the wheat from the chaff ... which would go into maintaining the website, promotion and a rainy day fund should there be legal action needed to be taken.

[LibertyHarkness]

lol nothing you just agreed it has legs potentially :) I think morgans post was interesting and some good points have been raised ,,, so myself I would like to expand on a few of the topics raised starting with this ...

Its not that often we get a decent topic thread that actually is interesting and has potential bearing on all parties invovled ...

xx

[LibertyHarkness]

good points there seanchai ...

I think yes abit like equity for actors ..

[GroobyKrissy]

It's an interesting concept but wow... quite the project.

I'd be interested but I think one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is this fractured TS community (speaking porn here folks) which, as a whole, operates in a pretty dog eat dog sort of fashion.

Do I think it would be great... yes!

Do I think it's actually possible... not really. Too much mistrust, backbiting, and just plain selfishness in this industry to make it work. If the mainstream world can barely make it work, I doubt the TS community can get it together enough to make something work.

A skeptic's answer. But, if there's a go getter out there, I'll help in any way my time and meager resources allow :)

[freak]

There is a zero chance of this ever working, who is going to collect the dues, unions are not free and do you really think the girls will pay there dues when they are not working? You still pay dues when you are between jobs. What are the chances of corruption, unions have always had that problem and in the porn industry it is almost a guarantee for it to happen. How many girls do you think it would take to have any power? For a union to work it would need 1000's of members, not just 3 or 400. What can a union do to stop non working scabs from taking all the jobs? What power does the union have to stop the studio from going to Brazil, Thailand or Mexico to make there movies, the labor is much cheaper there and the talent is every bit as good.

[raybbaby]

Yeah, I think a union is a bad idea, too. It just won't work in the porn industry. I feel for the girls, if you have to start with low pay, and I know some of these producers and directors are low lifes too. But the girls have to network and if they wanna "blacklist" a performer or director, they have to stick to it no matter what. This forum is a pretty good place to network, I can rember first coming across HA during a dispute between a well known performer and a director who f*ed up.

[CaptainGeech]

It would never work. The producers would just find some girls on the street who would be willing to do it for half. That or go overseas.

If you're feeling bad about your pay just look at what the straight male pornstars are making. I think that might make you feel a bit better. Those guys are getting the shaft. No wonder so many of them do the gay for pay thing.

[Olivialove]

It would never work. The producers would just find some girls on the street who would be willing to do it for half. That or go overseas.

If you're feeling bad about your pay just look at what the straight male pornstars are making. I think that might make you feel a bit better. Those guys are getting the shaft. No wonder so many of them do the gay for pay thing. I voted yes I would hmmm remember how fast words get around more rejections r gonna happen its the one of the reasons we r having a union Finally! I've been trying to tell the community for years to found a union for ts adult performers(or ones in adult biz) I think it should apply to the escorts models etc as well

[Nicole Dupre]

It's a wonderful idea but it wouldn't work; not in the traditional way unions function in other industries anyway. As one of the above posters pointed out, the people with bank rolls would simply hire scabs. Sex workers are all independent contractors. The industry is based on supply and demand, and in the end we all take what the market will bear. :2cent <-(No pun intended.)

[Odelay]

Don't let the negative people influence you on this idea. Everyone has an opinion and people who hate unions are the first to come out of the woodwork. They truly believe they're doing you a favor by discouraging you from banding together with a common cause. These same fools, or the fathers of these fools claimed no union for service workers could ever be powerful, since they didn't have the power to shut down an assembly line or a mechanical operation. Today, the SEIU is the most powerful union around.

Unions aren't about collecting dues, corruption, or whatever else these people are saying. It's about joining together to gain clout or leverage. One thing you have to do for your customers to encourage them to "go union", is give something back. For example, safety issues have always been a big deal around unions. If you can promote safety across all union members, i.e. "safe sex" and "safe practices", that will be attractive for many customers.

Another key element is having the support of some of the big wigs (excuse the pun) in the industry, i.e. porn stars and high priced escorts. If you make joining attractive for them, you give the union a lot of status. Again, an example is illustrative. The unions for mechanics, flight attendants and ramp workers in the airline industry during the 60's, 70's and 80's became very powerful, once the glamour boys of the industry, i.e. the pilots, also organized and formed a union.

Good luck to you, Libby, and all of those who might pursue this.

O

[droog]

...

[rockabilly]

Those guys are getting the shaft. No wonder so many of them do the gay for pay thing.

From getting the shaft ... to getting shafted. You're screwed either way.

[Nicole Dupre]

Don't let the negative people influence you on this idea. Everyone has an opinion and people who hate unions are the first to come out of the woodwork. They truly believe they're doing you a favor by discouraging you from banding together with a common cause. These same fools, or the fathers of these fools claimed no union for service workers could ever be powerful, since they didn't have the power to shut down an assembly line or a mechanical operation. Today, the SEIU is the most powerful union around.

Unions aren't about collecting dues, corruption, or whatever else these people are saying. It's about joining together to gain clout or leverage. One thing you have to do for your customers to encourage them to "go union", is give something back. For example, safety issues have always been a big deal around unions. If you can promote safety across all union members, i.e. "safe sex" and "safe practices", that will be attractive for many customers.

Another key element is having the support of some of the big wigs (excuse the pun) in the industry, i.e. porn stars and high priced escorts. If you make joining attractive for them, you give the union a lot of status. Again, an example is illustrative. The unions for mechanics, flight attendants and ramp workers in the airline industry during the 60's, 70's and 80's became very powerful, once the glamour boys of the industry, i.e. the pilots, also organized and formed a union.

Good luck to you, Libby, and all of those who might pursue this.

O

"Fools"? lol Please don't throw cheap shots at anyone who's not seeing the likelihood of such thing by labeling them "fools". Personally, I applaud the sentiment behind such a concept. Solidarity is badly needed in our "community". I'm just having difficulty seeing it actually working.

I think Ray's idea is just as palpable; small sewing circles of transsexual sex-workers blackballing the assholes who exploit us is also a wonderful idea too. However, I don't see the great likelihood of that concept either.

Libby, good luck to you. I, too, think this industry is loaded with fat-cats and scumbags who should be held accountable. And we most certainly do need to look out for one another. If you can upset that applecart, without creating a whole set of new problems, you have my 200% support. Actually, you have my support right now. I just don't see it happening. But go for it.

[tsmandy]

I would be interested in something that was similar to the actors guild, like a porn guild, but I don't think a union would really make sense.

[freak]

Don't let the negative people influence you on this idea. Everyone has an opinion and people who hate unions are the first to come out of the woodwork. They truly believe they're doing you a favor by discouraging you from banding together with a common cause. These same fools, or the fathers of these fools claimed no union for service workers could ever be powerful, since they didn't have the power to shut down an assembly line or a mechanical operation. Today, the SEIU is the most powerful union around.

Unions aren't about collecting dues, corruption, or whatever else these people are saying. It's about joining together to gain clout or leverage. One thing you have to do for your customers to encourage them to "go union", is give something back. For example, safety issues have always been a big deal around unions. If you can promote safety across all union members, i.e. "safe sex" and "safe practices", that will be attractive for many customers.

Another key element is having the support of some of the big wigs (excuse the pun) in the industry, i.e. porn stars and high priced escorts. If you make joining attractive for them, you give the union a lot of status. Again, an example is illustrative. The unions for mechanics, flight attendants and ramp workers in the airline industry during the 60's, 70's and 80's became very powerful, once the glamour boys of the industry, i.e. the pilots, also organized and formed a union.

Good luck to you, Libby, and all of those who might pursue this.

O

OK Norma Rae, how do unions work if they do not collect dues? How many members would you need to make it workable? You are talking out of your ass if you think it is all about joining together to gain clout or leverage. Unions are not about corruption but corruption is what happens, it is what happens, always did and always will. The union you mention is SEIU, they are over 2 million strong, and you know what they have corruption http://www.seiuexposed.com/crimecorruption.cfm and the things that they did was rip off there members, you think you will find people that are more honest in the porn industry? The industry that is know for organized crime, and unions that have also been know for the same. Stop being blind and open your eyes.

[LibertyHarkness]

interesting comments coming in ..

Just to add i am not making a union , i am just carrying on from Morgans thread that is all .. and union/guild/agency concept seemed interesting to discuss further.

[Olivialove]

Definitly doesn't hurt to brainstorm b4 making actual leap

[Olivialove]

It take effort and evidence to accomplish a point or 2

[phobun]

OK a poll for the TS models .. following on from Morgans thread how many would actually seriously consider being invovled with a TS Model union ...

i for one would, even Seanchai from his producer perspective agreed this would be a good thing potentially to work with .
This is an original idea, but I have big doubts. First, what is a union even going to do for you...?

...strike unless Old Bags gets another shoot?
...demand higher wages for the unskilled even though someone younger, sexier and equally unskilled, but hungrier, and in another country, is ready to work for less?
...call the poor Thai and Brazilian girls scabs?

In this industry, the only real talent is with the producers who innovate and find new ways to deliver sex fantasy to horny men. Although they are sometimes called "talent", the reality is that the girls bring little to the table, other than whatever physical assets they happened to be born with (or acquired). Modeling requires no intelligence and no special skills. The girls are entirely replaceable according to supply and demand.

If a non-union girl is in great demand, that demand will exist regardless of whether the homely girls form a union line and picket against her hiring.

If something so farcical as an International Union of Transgender Models stipulates that a producer can only hire a card-carrying member, then such a policy limits not only who the producer is able to hire, but also who the audience gets to see. If the next Hazel Tucker turns 18 and wants a shoot, how is it helpful to anyone other than the fat union cats that the union would have effective veto power over her getting a shoot, at least until she paid her dues?

And what would be the criteria for joining a "TS model union"? In other words, how far down the gender spectrum would a "TS model union" represent, and how does the union determine how an individual is so classified? If a gayboy occasionally dresses up and gets a shoot, would he be considered as taking work from a unionized "TS model"?