So who's the congressman that shouted Obama was lying???

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Who is it?

Let's go people, you've searched for harder material!!!!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/09/joe.wilson/art.joe.wilson.heckling.gi.jpg

[raybbaby]

last name is Wilson. Congressman from South Carolina.

[jrob1812]

Joe Wilson of South Carolina, according to the AP

[raybbaby]

That was purty quick!

[Odelay]

Obama looked a bit pissed after he heard it, as well he should. That's just bullshit coming from someone from congress. I'm sure the putz will be haled as a hero on Limbaugh tomorrow.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

No Nancy's face was the killer

She looked like she was gonna fuck dude up

[Alyssa87]

and with all that botox, thats says a lot.

she was really pissed.

[2009AD]

Wilson disrespected the office of the President of the United States and Congressional protocol.

That's fine if he thinks Obama was lying, plenty of time for him to say so AFTER the speech.

Any member of Congress, Republican or Democrat who interrupts a Presidential address before Congress is an idiot.

[peggygee]

I heard the booing as I was cookig dinner, didn't quite get to
see who did it. Thought a heckler had snuck in.

But yeah, respect the office even if you disagree with the President,
he could of and should have expressed his displeasure after the speech.

[trish]

The shout out was at least more refreshing than Boehner's continuous pout. Talk about a bunch of four year olds!

[scroller]

But yeah, respect the office even if you disagree with the President...

I'm actually fine with the protocol being either way. But if those GOP douches want to start the catcalling in Congress, then they better STFU when the lefties are shouting them down the next time a GOP president wants to start a bullshit war. It's enormously more warranted in a case like that.

[cockgobbler]

Wait a sec:

I didn't see the speech. A congressman actually yelled out "your lying" during a televised speech?

I'm in Canada, and we have a parliamentary system like Britian and every day the governing party has to undergo what is known as Question Period where opposition members of parliament ask the government questions about policy, legislation, ect. We hear "Liar" and worse shouted in the House of Commos on a daily basis.

But never during a televised speech. Of course, we don't usually get these type of televised speeches.

[2009AD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc8rL2Whr_I

Senator John McCain called upon Wilson to apologize while appearing on Larry King Live shortly after the President's speech, saying "Totally disrespectful. No place for it in that setting or any other and he should apologize immediately.



Wait a sec:

I didn't see the speech. A congressman actually yelled out "your lying" during a televised speech?

I'm in Canada, and we have a parliamentary system like Britian and every day the governing party has to undergo what is known as Question Period where opposition members of parliament ask the government questions about policy, legislation, ect. We hear "Liar" and worse shouted in the House of Commos on a daily basis.

But never during a televised speech. Of course, we don't usually get these type of televised speeches.

[paulgutierrez]

Wilson disrespected the office of the President of the United States and Congressional protocol.

That's fine if he thinks Obama was lying, plenty of time for him to say so AFTER the speech.

Any member of Congress, Republican or Democrat who interrupts a Presidential address before Congress is an idiot.

He swore an oath to the Constitution not the president. He doesn't have to respect shit.

[2009AD]

Wilson disrespected the office of the President of the United States and Congressional protocol.

That's fine if he thinks Obama was lying, plenty of time for him to say so AFTER the speech.

Any member of Congress, Republican or Democrat who interrupts a Presidential address before Congress is an idiot.

He swore an oath to the Constitution not the president. He doesn't have to respect shit.

Uh? Who said anything about the Constitution? Members of Congress stand up when the President enters a room, not out of respect for the man (Clinton, Bush, Obama) but out of respect for the office. Anyways, Wilson has already apologized.

[trish]

But he DOES respect shit. That's his problem.

[pantybulge69]

Wilson disrespected the office of the President of the United States and Congressional protocol.

That's fine if he thinks Obama was lying, plenty of time for him to say so AFTER the speech.

Any member of Congress, Republican or Democrat who interrupts a Presidential address before Congress is an idiot.

He swore an oath to the Constitution not the president. He doesn't have to respect shit.

Uh? Who said anything about the Constitution? Members of Congress stand up when the President enters a room, not out of respect for the man (Clinton, Bush, Obama) but out of respect for the office. Anyways, Wilson has already apologized.

he can offer as much apologizing as he likes,
(and i expected he would do that afterwards ) but the damage is done
and he embarrassingly exposed himself.

[paulgutierrez]

Wilson disrespected the office of the President of the United States and Congressional protocol.

That's fine if he thinks Obama was lying, plenty of time for him to say so AFTER the speech.

Any member of Congress, Republican or Democrat who interrupts a Presidential address before Congress is an idiot.

He swore an oath to the Constitution not the president. He doesn't have to respect shit.

Uh? Who said anything about the Constitution? Members of Congress stand up when the President enters a room, not out of respect for the man (Clinton, Bush, Obama) but out of respect for the office. Anyways, Wilson has already apologized.

What a pussy. He would have gotten more support had he not apologized. A domino effect that could have been.

[trish]

Most radical right wingers are pussys. They're scared shitless of just about everything: death panels, alien presidents, government takeovers etc. As a result their behavior is sooo loony they have to back down.

[cockgobbler]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?

[raybbaby]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?
Yes, he was against it before he was for it. Then showed up presenting those big novelty checks with his name signed on it, smiling for the camera's like he was a great big hero. Priceless. Oh well, I'm off to hike the Appalachian trail....
ooops, Sorry, this is Jindal, repug from Louisiana. My bad.

[flabbybody]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?

no, the gov of South Carolina is the family Christian dude that disappeared for a few days cuz he was in South America fucking his tranny girlfriend. Then he went on TV crying like a faggot and saying how gay marriage is Satan's work and he really loves his ugly, white middle aged wife of 30 years

and the dude that yelled at the president tonight probably pays 14 year old spanish boys to suck their cocks so he's all scared they may get health coverage and he'll have to declare them as dependends
And if all the circumstances were exactly the same except that Obama was white, I guarantee that cocksucker would have never showed the president the disrespect

[arnie666]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?

no, the gov of South Carolina is the family Christian dude that disappeared for a few days cuz he was in South America fucking his tranny girlfriend. Then he went on TV crying like a faggot and saying how gay marriage is Satan's work and he really loves his ugly, white middle aged wife of 30 years

and the dude that yelled at the president tonight probably pays 14 year old spanish boys to suck their cocks so he's all scared they may get health coverage and he'll have to declare them as dependends
And if all the circumstances were exactly the same except that Obama was white, I guarantee that cocksucker would have never showed the president the disrespect

Bit of a large race card to play there but then thats quite typical on this site. You have seen how health care in the states has dragged the loons out in general.People bringing guns to debates ,people getting beaten up etc.It's obviously something that brings out a lot of emotion and bad temper.

If we had a white president trying to give the American people a health care system that reminds these loons of soviet russia :D Iam more than certain he would have mouthed off.

And if you see that as disrespect you should see what goes on in the British house of commons , we have members of parliament brandishing maces over there at opposition members and commenting on other members breasts.

[scroller]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?

no, the gov of South Carolina is the family Christian dude that disappeared for a few days cuz he was in South America fucking his tranny girlfriend. Then he went on TV crying like a faggot and saying how gay marriage is Satan's work and he really loves his ugly, white middle aged wife of 30 years


He did that, but he also did indeed fight against accepting federal funds until he was dragged into the state supreme court and forced to do otherwise. Keep in mind he was a front-runner for the next GOP presidential nomination, this being a swing for the GOP loony vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford#Political_actions


After the passage of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, which Governor Sanford strongly opposed and publicly criticized before and after its passage by Congress and presidential signing, Sanford initially indicated he might not accept all of the funds allotted by the spending law to South Carolina.[22] He was criticized by many Democrats and some moderate Republicans both in his state and outside who noted South Carolina's 9.5% unemployment rate (one of the highest in the country) and complained that Sanford wasn't doing enough to improve economic conditions in his state, which they felt could be alleviated by the stimulus money.[23][24][25] Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Republican governor of California, suggested that if Sanford or other governors rejected their portion of stimulus funds, he would be happy to take them instead.[26]

On March 11, 2009, Sanford became the first United States governor to formally reject a portion of the federal stimulus money earmarked by Congress for the state of South Carolina.[27] Sanford compromised to accept the federal money on condition that the state legislature provide matching funds to pay down the South Carolina state debt.[28] On April 3, 2009, Sanford signed paperwork enabling South Carolina to receive the bailout money; however, he maintained that this signing was simply a bureaucratic maneuver to avoid the federal funds allocated to SC being redistributed to other states.[29]

[JerseyMike]

It's not like he was off base calling a politician a liar, he's a congressman, he should know a liar when he sees one be it Obama, himself, or Boloise. Oh yeah, Obama is white.

[jaycanuck]

I think as one poster pointed out that name calling slurs get thrown around up in our parliament all the time....so when I first heard this story I didn't know what the big deal was...

Then I clicked in and found out it was the President addressing Congress. Fuck even I know that's a no no. It's kind of some similar to the PM giving the thrown speech up here.

[sugdaddie69]

It seems EVERYONE wants to dodge what is plain.
I have NEVER seen a President so disrespected as
this one.Guns at townhall meetings,shouting out during speeches.Fuck the dixie chicks said they wish
Bush wasn't from Texas,and were literally blacked balled.Race is the underlying theme here.

[LittleGuy]

this guy should have a big cock violently slammed down his throat.

[Nicole Dupre]

Looks like the extreme right has been batting a 1000 in public places this week. LMFAO!

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/oc-assemblyman-in-bed-with-lob/

[jaycanuck]

Looks like the extreme right has been batting a 1000 in public places this week. LMFAO!

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/oc-assemblyman-in-bed-with-lob/

Classy

[trish]

Looks like the extreme right has been batting a 1000 in public places this week. LMFAO!

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/oc-assemblyman-in-bed-with-lob/You gotta love their "family values." I mean you "gotta" or else.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Looks like the extreme right has been batting a 1000 in public places this week. LMFAO!

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/oc-assemblyman-in-bed-with-lob/



time has come and we are bearing witness to electing due the "Pious" has done to this democratic republic. Maybe we should start electing people to do the job of being our servants. Men and Women by their nature are fallen creatures we are not perfect we know this, so why, when we hit the election booths do we elect people who claim to be Pious and perfect?

[Mugai_hentaisha]

As far as the Lying comment.

Yeah he is lying, he is a politician plain and simple.
however just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Especially when it is an address to a joint session of Congress. There is a proper time and place for dissent and debate. We are Americans we should be the pinnacle of manners and gentlemanly behavior. We are (supposed to be) the Light by which others learn to shine.

you may not like this president but you still behave with a degree of civility when elected to serve this United States.

[SarahG]

this guy should have a big cock violently slammed down his throat.

So you want to reward him for his actions? :?:

[SarahG]

As far as the Lying comment.

Yeah he is lying, he is a politician plain and simple.
however just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Especially when it is an address to a joint session of Congress. There is a proper time and place for dissent and debate. We are Americans we should be the pinnacle of manners and gentlemanly behavior. We are (supposed to be) the Light by which others learn to shine.

you may not like this president but you still behave with a degree of civility when elected to serve this United States.

A smart politician gets people to dismiss their opponents' statements without resorting to blatant lying.

I.e. "no illegal aliens will be receiving tax dollars under this program" isn't a lie if all illegal aliens are made legal via some kind of (separate) guest worker program.

[Faldur]

I have NEVER seen a President so disrespected as
this one.

Ok lets keep the statements in the realm of reality.

There was a movie depicting how to assassinate President Bush.

Clinton/Lewinsky: was there ever a bigger disrespect of a sitting President? Not even Nixon while in office was treated this way.

Twice during the 2005 "State of the Union" speech the Democratic Congress erupted in boo's and heckles.

TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

PAUL BEGALA (CNN host): Let me correct your history -- 1993, I was with President Bill Clinton in that House chamber when he addressed a joint session of Congress. And Republicans heckled him when he cited Congressional Budget Office statistics about the deficit. [CNN, Crossfire, 2/3/05]

"Clinton's proposal to expand Medicare to allow Americans as young as 55 to buy into the system drew shouts of "no" and some boos from Republicans during his speech." [Chicago Tribune, 1/28/98]

You can date it back to LBJ's day. Its not anything unique to the Obama Presidency. And I won't even touch the racist comment.. I have no idea if Obama hates white people.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

As far as the Lying comment.

Yeah he is lying, he is a politician plain and simple.
however just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Especially when it is an address to a joint session of Congress. There is a proper time and place for dissent and debate. We are Americans we should be the pinnacle of manners and gentlemanly behavior. We are (supposed to be) the Light by which others learn to shine.

you may not like this president but you still behave with a degree of civility when elected to serve this United States.

A smart politician gets people to dismiss their opponents' statements without resorting to blatant lying.

I.e. "no illegal aliens will be receiving tax dollars under this program" isn't a lie if all illegal aliens are made legal via some kind of (separate) guest worker program.

Well said

[Solitary Brother]

What is it with politicians from South Carolina?

Wasn't it the Governor of South Carolina that refused to take stimulus money from the Obama administration?

no, the gov of South Carolina is the family Christian dude that disappeared for a few days cuz he was in South America fucking his tranny girlfriend. Then he went on TV crying like a faggot and saying how gay marriage is Satan's work and he really loves his ugly, white middle aged wife of 30 years

and the dude that yelled at the president tonight probably pays 14 year old spanish boys to suck their cocks so he's all scared they may get health coverage and he'll have to declare them as dependends
And if all the circumstances were exactly the same except that Obama was white, I guarantee that cocksucker would have never showed the president the disrespect

Leave my Republican buddys alone.....a brothers gotta bust a nut sometime.

[Silcc69]

Faldur I see what you are saying but Obama has only been in here for like 8 months and he is getting hit hard as hell.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Faldur I see what you are saying but Obama has only been in here for like 8 months and he is getting hit hard as hell.

Humm getting hit hard as hell

Media loves him

Most of the dissenters are immediately dismissed as Racist, Nazi's, and the like....

if that is being hit hard then I would have loved to be hit that hard when i was being teased and bullied about my stuttering for 18+years.

[trish]

He's not a citizen, he's a fundamentalist muslim, he's a socialist, he's a fascist, he's going take away your guns, he's a racist, he hangs about with terrorists, he's instigating death panels etc. etc. The radical right wing talking points are not only repeated in synchrony each day by the pundits but they are repeated ad infinitum by the 24 hour news stations and talk radio shills. People hated Bush, but they gave reasoned arguments. Nobody ever flung this kind of crazy shit at any U.S. president. If the shit flingers are sometimes dismissed as Nazi's, bigots and racists, it's because they are.

[RawNY]

You know he will be found in some cloak room sucking some TG's big cock one day like any good conservative Republican

[raybbaby]

You know he will be found in some cloak room sucking some TG's big cock one day like any good conservative Republican
Actually They ususally like boys or other men.

[duplicatt]

He's not a citizen, he's a fundamentalist muslim, he's a socialist, he's a fascist, he's going take away your guns, he's a racist, he hangs about with terrorists, he's instigating death panels etc. etc. The radical right wing talking points are not only repeated in synchrony each day by the pundits but they are repeated ad infinitum by the 24 hour news stations and talk radio shills. People hated Bush, but they gave reasoned arguments. Nobody ever flung this kind of crazy shit at any U.S. president. If the shit flingers are sometimes dismissed as Nazi's, bigots and racists, it's because they are.

Yes, calling him Bushitler was such a reasoned argument...

[trish]

Yeah, that was sooo prevalent. There was a whole media staged movement of people calling him bushhitler :roll:

[Mugai_hentaisha]

He's not a citizen, he's a fundamentalist muslim, he's a socialist, he's a fascist, he's going take away your guns, he's a racist, he hangs about with terrorists, he's instigating death panels etc. etc. The radical right wing talking points are not only repeated in synchrony each day by the pundits but they are repeated ad infinitum by the 24 hour news stations and talk radio shills. People hated Bush, but they gave reasoned arguments. Nobody ever flung this kind of crazy shit at any U.S. president. If the shit flingers are sometimes dismissed as Nazi's, bigots and racists, it's because they are.

Yes, calling him Bushitler was such a reasoned argument...

calling him retarded was equally reasoned

Releasing a book called Bushims was endearing to the President, btw read it and found it freaking Funny

Things He should remember

1. he is the president and this goes to all the presidents before him with the exception of Washington, Adams, and a few others, if they weren't so keen on Doing everything for everybody, maybe they would find they aren't heckled as much.

2. he is the President and if he would read his job description sometime and follow it to the letter, he would be much better off, and the job a lot more fulfilling. More time off.

3. He is the President, he should know the more you try to control the less you actually control.

4. I said this of Favre Farve whatever, if you can't stand the Team then don't tryout for the team. Americans are Generous in Praise and Poisonous in their Criticism. We are a loving and Fickle bunch. That is why we couldn't live with kings and Queens.

[duplicatt]

Yeah, that was sooo prevalent. There was a whole media staged movement of people calling him bushhitler :roll:

It was quite prevalent.

And you are wrong about the Tea Parties. Those happened from the ground up. The media jumped on so as not to be left behind.

[fred41]

It's intersting that when it's the person someone likes in office..the name calling is deemed malicious..but when it happened to the "other guy"..it was reasonable..lol....people have very selective memories.

....as if outfits like moveon.org don't really exist.

[raybbaby]

And you are wrong about the Tea Parties. Those happened from the ground up. The media jumped on so as not to be left behind.
This is absolutely laughable. Now, I just feel sorry for you.

[trish]

Tea parties were arranged by Faux Noise and they even sent their own celebs to sponsor them. What a laugh :)

[duplicatt]

Tea parties were arranged by Faux Noise and they even sent their own celebs to sponsor them. What a laugh :)

I know some people who organized Tea Parties. NewsCorp jumped on after the planning had been started - they were afraid of getting left behind if they didn't.

And, no, before the two of you start in, I don't watch Fox News nor do I read their web site.

[trish]

Oh and those organizers got the idea all by themselves and even came up with the name "tea party" independent of all the hype Fox was broadcasting. How gullible can YOU be??

[Distance]

God, I'd hate to be a Republican right now. This is not politics anymore...it's a bloody stupid, lobotomized show, Jerry Springer style. And that is the example the USA are giving to Arabic nations, yeah...democracy and tolerance. :roll:



I bet if Obama 'fails', some will say he is black. And if he manages, we sure will hear he is half 'White'.

[Alyssa87]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/10/dylan-ratigan-provides-ra_n_282318.html


...well that takes care of that

[Tepres]

:arrow:

[Alyssa87]

this is HA

its all about the nuts

[LittleGuy]

this guy should have a big cock violently slammed down his throat.

So you want to reward him for his actions? :?:

no I hope he chokes to death.

[MrF]

On the other hand if you're going to use the power of a Presidential address to Congress to make a highly-politicized speach, you should expect some heat. I'm a liberal, but I've got no problem with that.

For me the real tragedy is how the health industry has become all about making huge profits. I'm actually leary of the govt trying to do health care -- they are inefficient and tend to f'ck everything up -- but somehow the system has to bend to take care of more people. And I'm not sure what the solution is, but the Congress better work on it instead of just scoring political points.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Oh and those organizers got the idea all by themselves and even came up with the name "tea party" independent of all the hype Fox was broadcasting. How gullible can YOU be??

well the ones organized in my area were done by a good friend of mine I was at and around both of them FOX or Faux whatever was no where around.

As for the idea the first one he planned in this area, he came to me in the bookstore when I worked there wanting rules for radicals, commonsense, and a few others and we got to talking and I said Glenn Beck's radio program has been talking of people doing these events to protest out of control spending, they were calling them tea parties, maybe you should look into it. As far as I know FOX news or even Glenn Beck was never contacted as to what to do or help out in anyway.

[Faldur]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/10/dylan-ratigan-provides-ra_n_282318.html


...well that takes care of that

Sure it does, all is well.. oooh look butterflies!

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-30-2009/house-committee-votes-against-preventing-health-care-benefits-illegal-aliens.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/from-the-fact-check-desk-illegal-immigrants-and-health-care-reform.html

[Silcc69]

It's going to be interesting to see how this illegal immigrants thing is handled.

[Solitary Brother]

It's going to be interesting to see how this illegal immigrants thing is handled.

There will be amnesty next year because the corporations want it.
You can bank on it....Obama already said so earlier this year.

[Faldur]

And once the amnesty comes they can roll them into the Health Care Plan. Its the reason they wont allow legislation to specifically deny it. It has been the plan all along..

[SarahG]

And once the amnesty comes they can roll them into the Health Care Plan. Its the reason they wont allow legislation to specifically deny it. It has been the plan all along..

They can deny ILLEGAL aliens all they want, if they setup amnesty of some sort then they won't be here illegally and therefore would qualify even with provisions to prohibit illegal coverage.

The illegals get free medical care already so I don't see what the big deal is. The reason why our ER's have such crappy wait times is because the illegals use them as free health clinics and go for everything from ingrown nails to colds, and usually bring their entire extended families in with them while they're at it. That's not going to change under these proposals.

Its illegal to deny someone life saving medical care. Everyone can get medical care under emergencies... its just that if you don't have health insurance (of some kind) then you're indebted for it until you can pay it back, IF you can pay it back. The question really is "whether or not people should have to pay for it, and what to do when they have no hope for affording it." Medical debt is the leading cause for bankruptcy in this country and has been for quite a while.

[TommyFoxtrot]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/10/dylan-ratigan-provides-ra_n_282318.html


...well that takes care of that

It's good that you provided a link, but it's been shown that efforts to insert a mechanism to prevent illegals from accessing healthcare were blocked...twice.

Was Obama "lying" well no, but we are dealing with a bunch of lawyers here, so the truth is hidden in semantics.


I've read that a bunch of emergency rooms have been closed or restricted in the southwest due to the number of illegal immigrants, but I'm kind of perplexed with what some Republicans are thinking. Illegals will continue to have accidents/need medical care whether this passes or not. The real issue should be enforcement of our borders and immigration laws, so that there aren't so many here to begin with. After that, we need to review the visa process so that we can allow more people to come into the country who don't qualify for the highskill visas.


The Republicans need to stay away from combining the healthcare debate (which they are winning) with immigration, because the Dems will use identity politics to their advantage. They are already rolling out the stops trying to peel white women away (who were leaving to the Republican camp) by having their pocket media do many cover stories showing young, attractive WHITE women suffering from ovarian/breast cancer and without health insurance.

It's so obvious.

[TommyFoxtrot]

What would this mean for TS? Are Hormones expensive and would they be covered under a public option?

[SarahG]

I'm kind of perplexed with what some Republicans are thinking. Illegals will continue to have accidents/need medical care whether this passes or not.

Exactly. So if we prevent illegals from receiving federal dollars for their medical care, then all these ER's will have to just eat the cost of it as "the cost of doing business."

In which case, they'll need to make up for the expenses using profit from the people who CAN afford to pay for their treatments.

To do that they'll have to get the profits from... where? Tax dollars. So either way, we're going to be paying for it whether we like it or not. If we don't like it, we need to get the illegals out of the fucking country (and actually patrol our boarders properly).

[TommyFoxtrot]

And once the amnesty comes they can roll them into the Health Care Plan. Its the reason they wont allow legislation to specifically deny it. It has been the plan all along..

They can deny ILLEGAL aliens all they want, if they setup amnesty of some sort then they won't be here illegally and therefore would qualify even with provisions to prohibit illegal coverage.

The illegals get free medical care already so I don't see what the big deal is. The reason why our ER's have such crappy wait times is because the illegals use them as free health clinics and go for everything from ingrown nails to colds, and usually bring their entire extended families in with them while they're at it. That's not going to change under these proposals.

Its illegal to deny someone life saving medical care. Everyone can get medical care under emergencies... its just that if you don't have health insurance (of some kind) then you're indebted for it until you can pay it back, IF you can pay it back. The question really is "whether or not people should have to pay for it, and what to do when they have no hope for affording it." Medical debt is the leading cause for bankruptcy in this country and has been for quite a while.

Amnesty will also ensure a large chunk of loyal latino voters for a generation. The Dems are salivating at the thought of getting the latino vote on lock like the black vote, and so are the McCain/Bush wing of the Republican party. They're playing with fire though, as we have no clue what shape future political battles will take with so many groups vying for control.

Also, there's something to be said for keeping illegals to a mininum. Look up how the Mexicans lost control of immigration into Texas, which indirectly led to the loss of the American southwest.

[TommyFoxtrot]

And once the amnesty comes they can roll them into the Health Care Plan. Its the reason they wont allow legislation to specifically deny it. It has been the plan all along..

They can deny ILLEGAL aliens all they want, if they setup amnesty of some sort then they won't be here illegally and therefore would qualify even with provisions to prohibit illegal coverage.

The illegals get free medical care already so I don't see what the big deal is. The reason why our ER's have such crappy wait times is because the illegals use them as free health clinics and go for everything from ingrown nails to colds, and usually bring their entire extended families in with them while they're at it. That's not going to change under these proposals.

Its illegal to deny someone life saving medical care. Everyone can get medical care under emergencies... its just that if you don't have health insurance (of some kind) then you're indebted for it until you can pay it back, IF you can pay it back. The question really is "whether or not people should have to pay for it, and what to do when they have no hope for affording it." Medical debt is the leading cause for bankruptcy in this country and has been for quite a while.

Amnesty will also ensure a large chunk of loyal latino voters for a generation. The Dems are salivating at the thought of getting the latino vote on lock like the black vote, and so are the McCain/Bush wing of the Republican party. They're playing with fire though, as we have no clue what shape future political battles will take with so many groups vying for control.

Also, there's something to be said for keeping illegals to a mininum. Look up how the Mexicans lost control of immigration into Texas, which indirectly led to the loss of the American southwest.

[SarahG]

What would this mean for TS? Are Hormones expensive and would they be covered under a public option?

HRT is pretty cheap. Spiro has been on the market forever and is widely used, and widely made.

Estrogen varies depending on the drug. Simple generic estroildol and injectable estrogens are extremely cheap (as far as prescription drugs go).

Patches, creams, nasal sprays (yes, they even have nasal sprays), pellets, and so on are usually far more then simple pills & shots.

Will it be covered? That depends on the private insurance companies that make their policies under the proposed system. As things currently exist private insurance companies usually, on paper, cover HRT for anyone who needs it (trans or GG). This can be for a variety of reasons depending on the patient.

For GG's going on hrt could be because,
-They want their skin to stay smooth & youthful during/after menopause
-They want their sex drive to continue during/after menopause
-They want their emotions to be under control (give or take) during/after menopause
-They want to feel good during/after menopause (i.e. preventing hot flashes, cramps)

And so on.

So right now, most health insurance plans in the US, including government plans, will gladly and easily pay for a GG's estrogen when she is 40 and simply trying to cling to her fading youth and taking E for that reason and that reason alone.

There IS a health safety issue here, the body requires sex hormones (male or female) to be healthy. A young person without sex hormones in the proper levels is at risk for bone loss, heart problems, imune system problems, etc. So if a GG has to have her ovaries removed before puberty she will need HRT dosages typical of someone who is trans.

Someone who is trans and has been on hrt long enough will need to stay on it, to stay healthy because the testes can't easily go back to working "as normal" after enough years of inactivity. We see this with body builders who take steroids... steroids are chemically close enough to testosterone that guys taking a lot of steroids, for years- will see that their testes actually shuts down because the glands see "oh look, there is already enough T in the body- I don't need to be making any!"

But what it really boils down to is how the policies will be written. Almost all policies in the US, by default, have a trans exclusion clause where they say something along the lines of "excluded are transgender surgeries and drugs relating to trans surgeries"- i.e. ffs, implants, srs, and the painkillers used after those surgeries would be excluded.

It is pretty rare for a private insurance policy to be so specific as to say "hormones for transgender patients." But, that doesn't mean they'll cover enough of it. Insurance policies throttle expenses by setting up computer filters that only authorize dosages below a certain "average amount needed."

GG's on E after menopause don't usually take very much of it. The climara100 patch is usually the MAX typical dosage for menopausal GG's. A trans person needs double the max typical GG dosage. The policy might, on paper, allow trans people to get hormones... but if their computer filter disallows anything higher than 1 climara100 patch per week, then you're going to have to pay for half of it out of pocket OR try to convince the company to make an exception (can be as easy as getting blood from a stone). Oh, and since I used patches as an exception; sometimes they don't stay on for a full week and under EXISTING plans (private or public) they don't give you any spares for such an event. So if your patch falls off early, you have to go a few day(s) without any estrogen in your system (this is a problem for both gg's and trans people).

[2009AD]

Congressman Who Heckled Obama is the Actual Liar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWfoZQiPx-Q

[adriannelasvegas]

The outburst was innappropriate at the time but it is bringing light to clarifying a very ambiguous point and concern most americans have and that is good.

[raybbaby]

The outburst was innappropriate at the time but it is bringing light to clarifying a very ambiguous point and concern most americans have and that is good.
I don't think so but it does give a chance to show just how false one of the assertions being made by the insurance industry and their cronies in congress is. Also draws some attention to the fact Wilson has received over $240,000 in campaign contributions from the "health industry". "Democracy for sale, Democracy for sale!, Step right up and be the proud owner of a completely corrupt government".

[Silcc69]

Well wasn't it Bush that first proposed amnesty to begin with? I don't think either part wants to deal with that because they both see the potential new votes in the latin community. I think that is one reason why Obama placed Sotomayor with the SC.

[jimbobw2]

Oh and those organizers got the idea all by themselves and even came up with the name "tea party" independent of all the hype Fox was broadcasting. How gullible can YOU be??

Gullible enough to know the difference that you will never be in their inner circle like you think you will be. You are just a useful idiot for them to propagate their message.

[raybbaby]

Oh and those organizers got the idea all by themselves and even came up with the name "tea party" independent of all the hype Fox was broadcasting. How gullible can YOU be??

Gullible enough to know the difference that you will never be in their inner circle like you think you will be. You are just a useful idiot for them to propagate their message.
Snicker* what?

[trish]

Oh yeah, I really expect to be in the inner circle of Federal policy makers. You really read my mind jimmy. :roll:

[Dirky]

Oh yeah, I really expect to be in the inner circle of Federal policy makers. You really read my mind jimmy. :roll:

Gives trish the secret 'Inner Circle' hand gesture.

It's only a matter of time, trish...

[loren]

I have NEVER seen a President so disrespected as
this one.

Ok lets keep the statements in the realm of reality.

There was a movie depicting how to assassinate President Bush.

Clinton/Lewinsky: was there ever a bigger disrespect of a sitting President? Not even Nixon while in office was treated this way.

Twice during the 2005 "State of the Union" speech the Democratic Congress erupted in boo's and heckles.

TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

PAUL BEGALA (CNN host): Let me correct your history -- 1993, I was with President Bill Clinton in that House chamber when he addressed a joint session of Congress. And Republicans heckled him when he cited Congressional Budget Office statistics about the deficit. [CNN, Crossfire, 2/3/05]

"Clinton's proposal to expand Medicare to allow Americans as young as 55 to buy into the system drew shouts of "no" and some boos from Republicans during his speech." [Chicago Tribune, 1/28/98]

You can date it back to LBJ's day. Its not anything unique to the Obama Presidency. And I won't even touch the racist comment.. I have no idea if Obama hates white people.How soon we forget. For eight years the democrats, on a daily basis, called president Bush stupid and a liar. Now they want to say that anyone who disagrees with or even :o criticizes :o barrack HUSSEIN obama is being unpatriotic.

I don't think that I would've called obama a liar during his national address, but why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right? After all, the president is just a man.

[Silcc69]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKIcrDsJAs

[SarahG]

How soon we forget. For eight years the democrats, on a daily basis, called president Bush stupid and a liar. Now they want to say that anyone who disagrees with or even :o criticizes :o barrack HUSSEIN obama is being unpatriotic.

I don't think that I would've called obama a liar during his national address, but why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right? After all, the president is just a man.

Do you know of one incident where a democrat congressman interrupted Bush (while he was speaking before the house or the senate) to call him a liar?

Its not that this congressman called Obama a liar; its that time & place of where it happened that made it a story.

[2009AD]

For eight years the democrats, on a daily basis, called president Bush stupid and a liar. Now they want to say that anyone who disagrees with or even :o criticizes :o barrack HUSSEIN obama is being unpatriotic.

I don't think that I would've called obama a liar during his national address, but why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right? After all, the president is just a man.

You are one stupid crossdresser dude.

"...why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right?" What the fuck does that even mean? What if all 535 members of Congress decided to yell their thoughts during a Presidential speech. Look up the word decorum.

You refer to him as Barack Hussein Obama. Oh the Hussein must mean he's a terrorist right? Maybe your wig is on a bit tight tonight Mister.

I bet 99.9% of Republicans would want nothing to do with any gun packing crossdresser.

By the way, I'm also a gun owner and NRA member.

[loren]

"...why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right?" What the fuck does that even mean? What if all 535 members of Congress decided to yell their thoughts during a Presidential speech. Look up the word decorum. I agree that interrupting the President's speach is a breach of protocol. In a manner, all 535 members of Congress do interject themselves (albeit usually through applause, even sometimes in the middle of a phrase, of booing). Even if you disagree with the man he is still President, and is entitled to all the respect of his office. "We salute the rank, not the man." - Major Richard Winters


You refer to him as barack HUSSEIN obama. Oh the Hussein must mean he's a terrorist right?obama's middle name is Hussein.

[paulgutierrez]

Well wasn't it Bush that first proposed amnesty to begin with? I don't think either part wants to deal with that because they both see the potential new votes in the latin community. I think that is one reason why Obama placed Sotomayor with the SC.
Sotomayor is Puerto Rican. I'm sorry but you just can't lump Mexicans and Puerto Ricans together because ALL Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

[duplicatt]

The outburst was innappropriate at the time but it is bringing light to clarifying a very ambiguous point and concern most americans have and that is good.
I don't think so but it does give a chance to show just how false one of the assertions being made by the insurance industry and their cronies in congress is. Also draws some attention to the fact Wilson has received over $240,000 in campaign contributions from the "health industry". "Democracy for sale, Democracy for sale!, Step right up and be the proud owner of a completely corrupt government".

As if no Democrat has taken shady money...

[BLKGSXR]

The outburst was innappropriate at the time but it is bringing light to clarifying a very ambiguous point and concern most americans have and that is good.
I don't think so but it does give a chance to show just how false one of the assertions being made by the insurance industry and their cronies in congress is. Also draws some attention to the fact Wilson has received over $240,000 in campaign contributions from the "health industry". "Democracy for sale, Democracy for sale!, Step right up and be the proud owner of a completely corrupt government".

As if no Democrat has taken shady money...What are you talking about Democrats are Saints :lol: Man seriously who hasnt taken dirty money once in their life..You show me that person, and I'll show you a damned liar.

[Silcc69]

Well wasn't it Bush that first proposed amnesty to begin with? I don't think either part wants to deal with that because they both see the potential new votes in the latin community. I think that is one reason why Obama placed Sotomayor with the SC.
Sotomayor is Puerto Rican. I'm sorry but you just can't lump Mexicans and Puerto Ricans together because ALL Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

But there latin before anything else.

[BLKGSXR]

"...why should Rep. Joe Willson be degrated for expressing his First Ammendment right?" What the fuck does that even mean? What if all 535 members of Congress decided to yell their thoughts during a Presidential speech. Look up the word decorum. I agree that interrupting the President's speach is a breach of protocol. In a manner, all 535 members of Congress do interject themselves (albeit usually through applause, even sometimes in the middle of a phrase, of booing). Even if you disagree with the man he is still President, and is entitled to all the respect of his office. "We salute the rank, not the man." - Major Richard Winters


You refer to him as barack HUSSEIN obama. Oh the Hussein must mean he's a terrorist right?obama's middle name is Hussein.Hussein means good,humble,handsome or beautiful-Its given among muslim people. So loren if you are referring to him in a derogatory way you failed miserably.

[dbev]

An idiot.

[loren]

Hussein means good,humble,handsome or beautiful-Its given among muslim people. So loren if you are referring to him in a derogatory way you failed miserably.No, I wasn't meaning anything bad by that. That's the name his parents gave him. It's just fun to say sometimes. :shrug

[trish]

In the case of Bush, the first breach of civility was lying to Congress about the reason and need for regime change in Iraq. Lying is a form of disrespect and Bush/Cheney showed their contempt for Congress and the American people on a daily basis. So what’s wrong with calling Bush a stupid liar? Nothing. He is stupid and he is a liar. And even at that he was never called a liar while addressing Congress.

In the Obama case, you can easily check the fact and see that he wasn’t lying. There’s no provision in the proposal to cover illegal aliens in the health plan. Indeed, absolutely no politician would write that into the bill because it would be political suicide. There’s no proposal to even cover legal aliens in spite of the fact that public heath plans of some European countries do indeed cover legal aliens, Americans included.

Here’s my proposal. The right wing radicals are afraid of our government. It seems soooo big to them. Soooo inscrutable. Soooo dark, monolithic and mysterious. It just might “take over.” It just might swallow us up!! And health care is the first swallow. So instead of a big, bad U.S. backed public option, I propose we join Canada’s healthcare system. We pay just enough taxes to Canada to cover our addition to their pool and we no longer have to be frightened of a U.S. government takeover. Then the radical right wing cowards can rest easy because Canada’s not going to take over anybody.

[Belial]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Ntu7Aapys

[fred41]

In the case of Bush, the first breach of civility was lying to Congress about the reason and need for regime change in Iraq. Lying is a form of disrespect and Bush/Cheney showed their contempt for Congress and the American people on a daily basis. So what’s wrong with calling Bush a stupid liar? Nothing. He is stupid and he is a liar. And even at that he was never called a liar while addressing Congress.

In the Obama case, you can easily check the fact and see that he wasn’t lying. There’s no provision in the proposal to cover illegal aliens in the health plan. Indeed, absolutely no politician would write that into the bill because it would be political suicide. There’s no proposal to even cover legal aliens in spite of the fact that public heath plans of some European countries do indeed cover legal aliens, Americans included.

Here’s my proposal. The right wing radicals are afraid of our government. It seems soooo big to them. Soooo inscrutable. Soooo dark, monolithic and mysterious. It just might “take over.” It just might swallow us up!! And health care is the first swallow. So instead of a big, bad U.S. backed public option, I propose we join Canada’s healthcare system. We pay just enough taxes to Canada to cover our addition to their pool and we no longer have to be frightened of a U.S. government takeover. Then the radical right wing cowards can rest easy because Canada’s not going to take over anybody.


Do you honestly think only "radical right wingers (possibly cowards..lol)" are the only people in this country against bigger government?

[trish]

I didn't say they were the only whimpering cowards, just a vocal subset.

[Helvis2012]

Joe Wilson from South Carolina.

The fucking retard signed his own death warrant: progressives and other activists have raised over two million dollars for his Democratic challenger in the next (2010) election.


Why are Republicans so stupid?!?!?!?!?!?!