Caster Semenya - runner from South Africa

[gamma aries]

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/aug2009/9/1/caster-semenya-pic-getty-652107600.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JESUFemaos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya
"The International Association of Athletics Federations had demanded to conduct a gender verification test, the results of which are not yet known, on Semenya in the weeks before the race."

What do you people think? GG, post op TG? Surely not the most feminine bird out there...
Discuss

[2009AD]

Dude.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bqET22vEU&NR=1

[timxxx]

Dude.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bqET22vEU&NR=1
We should know better

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

[bigballing05]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

[SarahG]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

How would you define male characteristics? There are plenty of GG's out there who are plenty masculine, but 100% naturally so (with no medical "cause" to explain it).

There's only one way to put an end to these gender-worries in sports; get a bunch of athletic FtM's and have them beat a bunch of professional GB athletes.

[Silcc69]

Looks just like a guy.

[BrendaQG]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

How would you define male characteristics? There are plenty of GG's out there who are plenty masculine, but 100% naturally so (with no medical "cause" to explain it).

There's only one way to put an end to these gender-worries in sports; get a bunch of athletic FtM's and have them beat a bunch of professional GB athletes.

Yes I would say that so many of these "male" characteristics that people here see are just strong African racial features. She is either intersexed or just plain female.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

Good point! Btw, has the test results came out yet? Her coach seems pretty confident they did nothing wrong though.

~Kisses.

HTG

[bigballing05]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

How would you define male characteristics? There are plenty of GG's out there who are plenty masculine, but 100% naturally so (with no medical "cause" to explain it).

There's only one way to put an end to these gender-worries in sports; get a bunch of athletic FtM's and have them beat a bunch of professional GB athletes.

She obviously has both female and male external sex organs since reports say that her gender is ambiguous after her physical examination. Given that, the fact that she has male features such as deep voice, wider waist, stronger body, no breasts, etc. it is clear that she is likely more physically a male than a female. This is not fair to the female runners who naturally have much lower levels of testosterone on average than males.

[Nikka]

leave the girl alone

[BrendaQG]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

How would you define male characteristics? There are plenty of GG's out there who are plenty masculine, but 100% naturally so (with no medical "cause" to explain it).

There's only one way to put an end to these gender-worries in sports; get a bunch of athletic FtM's and have them beat a bunch of professional GB athletes.

She obviously has both female and male external sex organs since reports say that her gender is ambiguous after her physical examination. Given that, the fact that she has male features such as deep voice, wider waist, stronger body, no breasts, etc. it is clear that she is likely more physically a male than a female. This is not fair to the female runners who naturally have much lower levels of testosterone on average than males.

She could possibly have a really large clitoris for example. Which can be induced from taking steroids and which would not go away if one stopped taking them for a while.

[giovanni_hotel]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

How would you define male characteristics? There are plenty of GG's out there who are plenty masculine, but 100% naturally so (with no medical "cause" to explain it).

There's only one way to put an end to these gender-worries in sports; get a bunch of athletic FtM's and have them beat a bunch of professional GB athletes.

She obviously has both female and male external sex organs since reports say that her gender is ambiguous after her physical examination. Given that, the fact that she has male features such as deep voice, wider waist, stronger body, no breasts, etc. it is clear that she is likely more physically a male than a female. This is not fair to the female runners who naturally have much lower levels of testosterone on average than males.


What does it mean that she has 'ambiguous' genitalia?? :shock:

I gave her the benefit of the doubt for being a GG, but it seems she may have a hormonal advantage over most GG competitors.

[ozma]

leave the girl alone

Best post in this mf thread.

It's fucking insulting and some could say racist for her to go through such humiliation by the Athletic body to determine her gender.

And I say racist because this isn't the first time an athletic body want to discredit an athlete because he/she is SO good that their HAS to be something wrong with him. It's impossible for them to do it on pure athleticism.

SMH.

[bigballing05]

leave the girl alone

Best post in this mf thread.

It's fucking insulting and some could say racist for her to go through such humiliation by the Athletic body to determine her gender.

And I say racist because this isn't the first time an athletic body want to discredit an athlete because he/she is SO good that their HAS to be something wrong with him. It's impossible for them to do it on pure athleticism.

SMH.

They would not be going through this so much if she didn't have both female and male genitalia. I'm all for civil rights as much as the next person but this is a legitimate investigation. You cannot just take someone's word about their gender. If that were the case then I am sure you would have a lot more men posing as women for financial gain in a woman's sport such as womens' track or basketball. Like I said before, men on average have much more testosterone than women - it would be totally unfair to women to have them compete against a man.

[SarahG]

They would not be going through this so much if she didn't have both female and male genitalia.

Has there been any word out yet on that being the case?

Ambiguous genitalia is a VERY different situation from "having both male and female genitalia"

[ozma]

leave the girl alone

Best post in this mf thread.

It's fucking insulting and some could say racist for her to go through such humiliation by the Athletic body to determine her gender.

And I say racist because this isn't the first time an athletic body want to discredit an athlete because he/she is SO good that their HAS to be something wrong with him. It's impossible for them to do it on pure athleticism.

SMH.

They would not be going through this so much if she didn't have both female and male genitalia. I'm all for civil rights as much as the next person but this is a legitimate investigation. You cannot just take someone's word about their gender. If that were the case then I am sure you would have a lot more men posing as women for financial gain in a woman's sport such as womens' track or basketball. Like I said before, men on average have much more testosterone than women - it would be totally unfair to women to have them compete against a man.

I'm sorry but this is complete bs.

Did you grow up around a lot of black girls? I have and the person in question does look like A FEW I grew up with. Only this person is a lot more buff. And that comes from years of dedication to the sport.

So please, spare me the guilt trip. And who says this is a fucking man?! As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY. Hell their shouldn't even be one in the first place. What you think some dude would cut his dick off and compete against a bunch of women on a international level professionally??

You really think he could get away with something like that???? IN this day and time??

Man, please...

[SarahG]

As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY..

So you're saying a fully transitioned FtM should be able to compete against normal GG's in the sporting circuits? Really?

[ozma]

As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY..

So you're saying a fully transitioned FtM should be able to compete against normal GG's in the sporting circuits? Really?

Who the fuck said anything about that??

[SarahG]

As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY..

So you're saying a fully transitioned FtM should be able to compete against normal GG's in the sporting circuits? Really?

Who the fuck said anything about that??

No one, that's why I brought it up when you mentioned chromosomes.

If we define it based on blood, then you'll have FtM's playing against GG's.

That doesn't make much sense.

[bigballing05]

leave the girl alone

Best post in this mf thread.

It's fucking insulting and some could say racist for her to go through such humiliation by the Athletic body to determine her gender.

And I say racist because this isn't the first time an athletic body want to discredit an athlete because he/she is SO good that their HAS to be something wrong with him. It's impossible for them to do it on pure athleticism.

SMH.

They would not be going through this so much if she didn't have both female and male genitalia. I'm all for civil rights as much as the next person but this is a legitimate investigation. You cannot just take someone's word about their gender. If that were the case then I am sure you would have a lot more men posing as women for financial gain in a woman's sport such as womens' track or basketball. Like I said before, men on average have much more testosterone than women - it would be totally unfair to women to have them compete against a man.

I'm sorry but this is complete bs.

Did you grow up around a lot of black girls? I have and the person in question does look like A FEW I grew up with. Only this person is a lot more buff. And that comes from years of dedication to the sport.

So please, spare me the guilt trip. And who says this is a fucking man?! As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY. Hell their shouldn't even be one in the first place. What you think some dude would cut his dick off and compete against a bunch of women on a international level professionally??

You really think he could get away with something like that???? IN this day and time??

Man, please...

Ozma,
I am sorry but black women do not generally look like men. I am black and have never seen a gg black woman with those features. I think you haven't been around black people if you can say that. Name one black woman that looks like that?

[ozma]

As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY..

So you're saying a fully transitioned FtM should be able to compete against normal GG's in the sporting circuits? Really?

Who the fuck said anything about that??

No one, that's why I brought it up when you mentioned chromosomes.

If we define it based on blood, then you'll have FtM's playing against GG's.

That doesn't make much sense.

Ok, but that's the type of tests they're going to run.

To see if she's doped up, a post op, or something similar to that effect.

But as I said, no one ain't that stupid enough to think that they can get away with that in this day and time. ESPECIALLY if she comes from a poor ( and black) background. And to save from all the future embarrassment from those around him, his coach, training partners, and his COUNTRY. The Western bodies would eat him alive.

SO I think she is a genetic female. Intersexed or not. Some people need to wise the fuck up and realized that not every female is born the same.

[SarahG]

SO I think she is a genetic female. Intersexed or not. Some people need to wise the fuck up and realized that not every female is born the same.

Most IS people don't know they're IS.

If they start excluding people based on that, there are going to be a lot of athletes whose dreams will be completely and suddenly shattered.

The whole situation sucks, if she is cleared in testing will she get an apology from all the news agencies like FOX that have been calling her a guy?

[giovanni_hotel]

I agree, Ozma.

I've been a jock-head almost my entire life, and as a kid I've met a few Black girls that were outright genetic freaks!!

Think about Serena Williams, she repeatedly states in interviews she does NOT lift weights because if she ever did, she would get way too muscular.

Now imagine if Serena lifted weights and reduced her bodyfat down below 10 percent with a 6 pack, she would look very similar to Caster.
Some girls are just yoked up like that.

[ozma]

leave the girl alone

Best post in this mf thread.

It's fucking insulting and some could say racist for her to go through such humiliation by the Athletic body to determine her gender.

And I say racist because this isn't the first time an athletic body want to discredit an athlete because he/she is SO good that their HAS to be something wrong with him. It's impossible for them to do it on pure athleticism.

SMH.

They would not be going through this so much if she didn't have both female and male genitalia. I'm all for civil rights as much as the next person but this is a legitimate investigation. You cannot just take someone's word about their gender. If that were the case then I am sure you would have a lot more men posing as women for financial gain in a woman's sport such as womens' track or basketball. Like I said before, men on average have much more testosterone than women - it would be totally unfair to women to have them compete against a man.

I'm sorry but this is complete bs.

Did you grow up around a lot of black girls? I have and the person in question does look like A FEW I grew up with. Only this person is a lot more buff. And that comes from years of dedication to the sport.

So please, spare me the guilt trip. And who says this is a fucking man?! As long as she has XX chromosome their should be NO CONTROVERSY. Hell their shouldn't even be one in the first place. What you think some dude would cut his dick off and compete against a bunch of women on a international level professionally??

You really think he could get away with something like that???? IN this day and time??

Man, please...

Ozma,
I am sorry but black women do not generally look like men. I am black and have never seen a gg black woman with those features. I think you haven't been around black people if you can say that. Name one black woman that looks like that?

And who the hell are you to tell me what the hell I've seen or not??

I know what I saw. And yes there ARE women who look like her. But they were NOT as jacked up as she was. These weren't celebs, so no I can't post their pictures.

But I can tell you that the person in question is a woman:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00603/semenya_185x360_603147a.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2009/8/19/1250711480052/Caster-Semenya-001.jpg
No adam's apple

http://www.athletics.org.za/Images/NewsImages/20090702130110048.JPG
Look at her jawline. She ain't no dude.

Ridiculous!!!

[ozma]

I agree, Ozma.

I've been a jock-head almost my entire life, and as a kid I've met a few Black girls that were outright genetic freaks!!

Think about Serena Williams, she repeatedly states in interviews she does NOT lift weights because if she ever did, she would get way too muscular.

Now imagine if Serena lifted weights and reduced her bodyfat down below 10 percent with a 6 pack, she would look very similar to Caster.
Some girls are just yoked up like that.

Thank you!

As I said, ain't no dude would be stupid enough to just cut his dick off and take a few hormones to compete in an international level. You just can't get away with that in this day and time.

Nearly Impossible!!! It would come back and bite you in the ass. Especially when you have sooooo much to lose, and they WILL NOT hesitate to take your accomplishments away in the SLIGHTEST mishap.

[bigballing05]

I agree, Ozma.

I've been a jock-head almost my entire life, and as a kid I've met a few Black girls that were outright genetic freaks!!

Think about Serena Williams, she repeatedly states in interviews she does NOT lift weights because if she ever did, she would get way too muscular.

Now imagine if Serena lifted weights and reduced her bodyfat down below 10 percent with a 6 pack, she would look very similar to Caster.
Some girls are just yoked up like that.

Thank you!

As I said, ain't no dude would be stupid enough to just cut his dick off and take a few hormones to compete in an international level. You just can't get away with that in this day and time.

Nearly Impossible!!! It would come back and bite you in the ass. Especially when you have sooooo much to lose, and they WILL NOT hesitate to take your accomplishments away in the SLIGHTEST mishap.

Ok Osma,
To end on a respectable note, the issue is not whether this is a MtF transgendered person. The issue is whether this person is a hermaphrodite and if so, is this person more male than female. It is not fair to have boys compete with girls. Again, Caster has a voice of an 18 yr. old boy with the body to match. If ever there were someone to be tested it would be her.

[giovanni_hotel]

Yeah, I will admit there is something different going on with her especially when you see her interview on youtube.

That ambiguous statement about her genitals after she was given a physical leads me to believe she's working with both sets.

[CaptainGeech]

When some women loose a certain amount of body fat they tend to inherit male characteristics. All you have to do is watch a WNBA game or female bodybuilding competition to see this. I feel bad for her. That's a really fucked up thing to deal with. Especially so young.

[ozma]

I agree, Ozma.

I've been a jock-head almost my entire life, and as a kid I've met a few Black girls that were outright genetic freaks!!

Think about Serena Williams, she repeatedly states in interviews she does NOT lift weights because if she ever did, she would get way too muscular.

Now imagine if Serena lifted weights and reduced her bodyfat down below 10 percent with a 6 pack, she would look very similar to Caster.
Some girls are just yoked up like that.

Thank you!

As I said, ain't no dude would be stupid enough to just cut his dick off and take a few hormones to compete in an international level. You just can't get away with that in this day and time.

Nearly Impossible!!! It would come back and bite you in the ass. Especially when you have sooooo much to lose, and they WILL NOT hesitate to take your accomplishments away in the SLIGHTEST mishap.

Ok Osma,
To end on a respectable note, the issue is not whether this is a MtF transgendered person. The issue is whether this person is a hermaphrodite and if so, is this person more male than female. It is not fair to have boys compete with girls. Again, Caster has a voice of an 18 yr. old boy with the body to match. If ever there were someone to be tested it would be her.

OK bigballing, we just have to wait and see, won't we?

But on that note, I have been around a lot butch mandikes, and let me tell you, they have everything Casters except for the muscles. So I just cannot see that she could be anything but a female. But we will know, won't we?

[ozma]

.......

[freak]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

So in you OPINION should she be allowed to run with men? This is stupid, she was born a female, just because she might have more natural testosterone then other females she should be not allowed to compete?
If that is the case every time another female gets beat she should ask for a gender test, do you think she is the first? Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova, the Williams sisters, they should have been tested with the test that they are talking about, psychology? So if a women is a lesbian she may fail the test, that is a cheap way to win a metal. The girl can run, she was just good a year ago, took off and rested her body for 3 months and came back strong. If she was a good looking blonde do you think this would be an issue?
Next up, where are the witches? They are on a hunt now.

[SarahG]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

So in you OPINION should she be allowed to run with men? This is stupid, she was born a female, just because she might have more natural testosterone then other females she should be not allowed to compete?
If that is the case every time another female gets beat she should ask for a gender test, do you think she is the first? Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova, the Williams sisters, they should have been tested with the test that they are talking about, psychology? So if a women is a lesbian she may fail the test, that is a cheap way to win a metal. The girl can run, she was just good a year ago, took off and rested her body for 3 months and came back strong. If she was a good looking blonde do you think this would be an issue?
Next up, where are the witches? They are on a hunt now.

There is another way- people could forget about sex status altogether and simply make different "classes" in sports based on physical characteristics like the amount of muscle mass a person has, height (when applicable) and so on.

But I'm just thinking with my mouth open, I don't know a damn thing about sports.

[freak]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

So in you OPINION should she be allowed to run with men? This is stupid, she was born a female, just because she might have more natural testosterone then other females she should be not allowed to compete?
If that is the case every time another female gets beat she should ask for a gender test, do you think she is the first? Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova, the Williams sisters, they should have been tested with the test that they are talking about, psychology? So if a women is a lesbian she may fail the test, that is a cheap way to win a metal. The girl can run, she was just good a year ago, took off and rested her body for 3 months and came back strong. If she was a good looking blonde do you think this would be an issue?
Next up, where are the witches? They are on a hunt now.

There is another way- people could forget about sex status altogether and simply make different "classes" in sports based on physical characteristics like the amount of muscle mass a person has, height (when applicable) and so on.

But I'm just thinking with my mouth open, I don't know a damn thing about sports.

So we can have the fat guy milers, see who has a heart attack first? The out of shape series, that would be fun to bet on.

In 2006 this came up, the girl that came in 2nd was stripped of her metal because she does not possess the sexual characteristics of a woman, they said it could have been caused by he diet, not eating proper during puberty. She was from India, no one eats right in India, her name is Santhi Soundarajan. After the games she attempted suicide, it was blamed the gender pressure plus other things.

[SarahG]

I've read this article lastnight. Maybe she's inter-sexed?

~Kisses.

HTG

Yeah, probably inter-sexed but mostly male characteristics and should not be allowed to run with females in my opinion.

So in you OPINION should she be allowed to run with men? This is stupid, she was born a female, just because she might have more natural testosterone then other females she should be not allowed to compete?
If that is the case every time another female gets beat she should ask for a gender test, do you think she is the first? Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova, the Williams sisters, they should have been tested with the test that they are talking about, psychology? So if a women is a lesbian she may fail the test, that is a cheap way to win a metal. The girl can run, she was just good a year ago, took off and rested her body for 3 months and came back strong. If she was a good looking blonde do you think this would be an issue?
Next up, where are the witches? They are on a hunt now.

There is another way- people could forget about sex status altogether and simply make different "classes" in sports based on physical characteristics like the amount of muscle mass a person has, height (when applicable) and so on.

But I'm just thinking with my mouth open, I don't know a damn thing about sports.

So we can have the fat guy milers, see who has a heart attack first? The out of shape series, that would be fun to bet on.

In 2006 this came up, the girl that came in 2nd was stripped of her metal because she does not possess the sexual characteristics of a woman, they said it could have been caused by he diet, not eating proper during puberty. She was from India, no one eats right in India, her name is Santhi Soundarajan. After the games she attempted suicide, it was blamed the gender pressure plus other things.

As I understand it, its common for girls in gymnastics to look underage because their diet usually leaves them so malnourished that puberty doesn't hit the way it normally should.

Classes would make more sense anyway because then it would be based off of physical potential instead of pairing people up who are physically not alike. Some people are just unfairly naturally stronger/faster/whatever- just because they're like that naturally doesn't mean its a fair "fight" per say.

[Silcc69]

She might've been doped up but she was a female

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/01/11/jones.jpg

And a majority of the girls in the WNBA are just butt ugly they don't really look or perform like men. And Lisa Leslie and Candace Parker the best leapers in the WNBA look pretty good.

[liisawinklergirl]

there was something similar to this incident which happened in Philippine Athletics before but only in the "minor leagues"

Nancy Navalta was the name of the athlete and she created quite a controversy because her gender was being questioned ..

She then just halted her participation in athletic events so the rumors could die down and perhaps for her to live a life out of the spotlight...

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

there was something similar to this incident which happened in Philippine Athletics before but only in the "minor leagues"

Nancy Navalta was the name of the athlete and she created quite a controversy because her gender was being questioned ..

She then just halted her participation in athletic events so the rumors could die down and perhaps for her to live a life out of the spotlight...

I sorta remember that Lisa. There was a huge protest at the time in the PI trying to bar her from participating. But I don't recall now if she was allowed or not to compete in that race?

I felt bad for Nancy because she was the bread winner for her poor family. She gave her mom a small convenience store that I seen through watching TFC. She is a good, loving and giving person IMO.

~Kisses.

HTG

[liisawinklergirl]

hey Hara kisses to you too :)

yeah her life story was played out in one of those drama episodes on the local channel and TFC as well...real sad too...and this was many years already after the controversies died..

I actually saw her RUN in an athletics meet here in Cebu where I live sooo many years ago...She thumped the competition easily in the individual dashes and also won gold in the relay with her team, Ilocos Region (me thinks???)

she could have been a promising athlete for the country in many international meets! pity...

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

hey Hara kisses to you too :)

yeah her life story was played out in one of those drama episodes on the local channel and TFC as well...real sad too...and this was many years already after the controversies died..

I actually saw her RUN in an athletics meet here in Cebu where I live sooo many years ago...She thumped the competition easily in the individual dashes and also won gold in the relay with her team, Ilocos Region (me thinks???)

she could have been a promising athlete for the country in many international meets! pity...

Mabuhay! Kamusta na kapatid? :P

I hear you..that's really a pity especially when she had a chance to compete internationally and use that to further help her family (like Paquiao). :(

~Kisses.

HTG

[dan_yearsgone83]

Hay something I'm interested in shows up here...

Her handlers should've been playing the political game better, international sports governing bodies generally act more out of spite than sound scientific reasoning. The IAAF is no exception.

But still...any time a teenage girl runs a 4:00 1500m time, it's going to raise suspicions...but they should be checking to see if the girl is cycling on performance enhancers, not estrogen therapy (listed under jones, marion)

[LittleGuy]

Yeah i think she "may" be using juice. I could be wrong but Ive never seen a 18yr old girl that cut up before.

[irvin66]

Looks like a male? :?

[alpha2117]

I'm guessing we are looking at someone with chromosoms of both here.

[Legend]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2613286/Gender-row-star-Caster-Semenya-passed-sex-test.html

[Silcc69]

Yeah i think she "may" be using juice. I could be wrong but Ive never seen a 18yr old girl that cut up before.

Say hello to LeBron James who was the most cut 18 year old NBA player of all time.

Legend pretty much got the confirmation. But if she was tested 3 years ago YTF was that never mentioned and she could've been spared that extra drama.

[BLKGSXR]

Yeah i think she "may" be using juice. I could be wrong but Ive never seen a 18yr old girl that cut up before.

Say hello to LeBron James who was the most cut 18 year old NBA player of all time.

Legend pretty much got the confirmation. But if she was tested 3 years ago YTF was that never mentioned and she could've been spared that extra drama.Yeah littleguy is a fucking simpleton....:lol:
The girl is a RUNNER-one of the best things you can do for your body is run.
Shes cut well because shes a fucking athlete she probably doesn't eat food like the rest of us filled with fat and grease. But leave it to simpleton motherfuckers to analyze shit like ouuu she cant be cut like that before age 18-if I ever heard some generic bullshit in my life smh...

[Faldur]

The girl is a RUNNER-one of the best things you can do for your body is run.

Slight Correction..

One of the best things you can do for your cardio/muscular system is run, one of the worse things you can do to your joints.

Cycling or cross country skiing would be a better "best"..

[ozma]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2613286/Gender-row-star-Caster-Semenya-passed-sex-test.html

LOL, just what I fucking thought.

SMH at the doubters at this and the other forums I've been too. They were the ones who should be the LAST to judge.

[SarahG]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2613286/Gender-row-star-Caster-Semenya-passed-sex-test.html

LOL, just what I fucking thought.

SMH at the doubters at this and the other forums I've been too. They were the ones who should be the LAST to judge.

I feel really bad for her, people put her through all that trouble, the media blasted her, fox called her a guy- and all just because she has naturally high levels of T in her system.

I seriously doubt she's going to get an apology from so much as a tenth of the media outlets that have been putting her on blast.

:smh

[2009AD]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/10/sportsline/main5301221.shtml

(CBS/AP) A test has confirmed that South African teenage running champion Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs, according to the New York Daily News and other media outlets.

The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.

Semenya has been dogged by questions about her gender since easily winning the 800-meter gold medal last month in Berlin at the world championships.

Semenya could be stripped of the gold medal she won and her competitive future is in limbo, according to Australia's Daily Telegraph.

Her dominating run came on the same day track and field's ruling body said she was undergoing a gender test because of concerns she did not meet requirements to compete as a woman.

In the race, Semenya took the lead at the halfway mark and opened a commanding lead in the last 400 meters to win by a massive 2.45 seconds in a world-leading 1 minute, 55.45 seconds. Defending champion Janeth Jepkosgei was second and Jennifer Meadows of Britain was third in 1:57.93.

A gender test was ordered, officials say, not because Semenya was suspected of cheating by having had a sex change operation, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips, but to determine whether she has what's being called "a medical condition."

"I don't know who said it... I don't give a damn about it," Semenya told a television crew after the race in August.

Her dramatic improvement in times, muscular build and deep voice sparked speculation about her gender. Ideally, any dispute surrounding an athlete is dealt with before a major competition. But Semenya's stunning rise from unknown teenage runner to the favorite in the 800 happened almost overnight.

[Solitary Brother]

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=49124


As usual I beat you to it AD!

[2009AD]

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=49124


As usual I beat you to it AD!

Kinda stupid to create a new thread about something that's been discussed already. Also stupid to create a thread entitled "Uh oh?"

Yea Solitary Sista, you go girl.

[giovanni_hotel]

If she has never menstruated ever in her life, then I believe she's guilty of attempting to commit fraud against the track and field sporting community.

Very, very sad and totally avoidable.

[SarahG]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/10/sportsline/main5301221.shtml

(CBS/AP) A test has confirmed that South African teenage running champion Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs, according to the New York Daily News and other media outlets.

The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.

Semenya has been dogged by questions about her gender since easily winning the 800-meter gold medal last month in Berlin at the world championships.

Semenya could be stripped of the gold medal she won and her competitive future is in limbo, according to Australia's Daily Telegraph.

Her dominating run came on the same day track and field's ruling body said she was undergoing a gender test because of concerns she did not meet requirements to compete as a woman.

In the race, Semenya took the lead at the halfway mark and opened a commanding lead in the last 400 meters to win by a massive 2.45 seconds in a world-leading 1 minute, 55.45 seconds. Defending champion Janeth Jepkosgei was second and Jennifer Meadows of Britain was third in 1:57.93.

A gender test was ordered, officials say, not because Semenya was suspected of cheating by having had a sex change operation, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips, but to determine whether she has what's being called "a medical condition."

"I don't know who said it... I don't give a damn about it," Semenya told a television crew after the race in August.

Her dramatic improvement in times, muscular build and deep voice sparked speculation about her gender. Ideally, any dispute surrounding an athlete is dealt with before a major competition. But Semenya's stunning rise from unknown teenage runner to the favorite in the 800 happened almost overnight.

wtf? This is in such contrast with the earlier stories that I have to wonder what explanation there is for them being so blatantly incorrect.

That's what I get for believing an article in The Sun (which claimed she passed the sex tests). :banghead

[SarahG]

The "experts" just aren't getting it here... its not the blood that would give someone an advantage, its the testosterone.

In sporting, testosterone is a performance enhancing drug- if someone has 3 times more testosterone in them than everyone else in their class/circuit they WILL have an advantage, that should be obvious.

Height also can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the sport (most performers in gymnastics are short & petite for a reason, most people in basketball are tall for a reason).



The birth defect people don’t talk about

By Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer 1 hour, 43 minutes ago

WASHINGTON – It’s the birth defect people don’t talk about. A baby is born not completely male or female. The old term was hermaphrodite, then intersex. Now it’s called “disorders of sexual development.” Sometimes the person with the problem doesn’t even know it and finds out in an all too public way.

That’s been the painful plight of a few female athletes through history. And apparently that’s the situation for South African track star Caster Semenya.

Two Australian newspapers reported Friday that gender tests show the world champion athlete has no ovaries or uterus and internal testes that produce large amounts of testosterone. The international sports federation that ordered the tests wouldn’t confirm the reports.

Experts say Semenya should be allowed to race as a woman and they cringe at how her case is exploding publicly in the news media. They worry about psychological scars. Two years ago, a star female track athlete who tested male attempted suicide.

Unless she took some illicit substance, Semenya is a female with a birth defect, simple as that, said Dr. Myron Genel, a professor emeritus of pediatrics at Yale University. He was part of a special panel of experts convened by the International Association of Athletics Federations in 1990 that helped end much, but not all, genetic gender testing.

“It’s no different in a sense than a youngster who is born with a hole in the heart,” Genel said. “These are in fact birth defects in an area that a lot of people are uncomfortable with.”

Semenya is hardly alone. Estimates vary, but about 1 percent of people are born with abnormal sex organs, experts say. These people may have the physical characteristics of both genders or a chromosomal disorder or simply ambiguous features.

Sometimes a sexual development problem is all too obvious when a baby is born. Other times, the disorder in girls may not be noticed until puberty, when she doesn’t start her period. And still other times, especially with the androgen insensitivity syndrome experts think Semenya might have, it remains hidden until she tries to have a baby — or in the case of an athlete, until she’s given a genetic test.

Genetic testing of women over five Olympics found genetic gender issues in 27 out of 11,373 women tested, according to a 2000 Journal of the American Medical Association article. However, none were men deliberately posing as women, as competitors fear.

Dr. Louis Elsas, chairman of biochemistry at the University of Miami and a member of the IAAF panel with Genel, said he had hoped the genetic gender testing issue was over after the 1996 Olympics, when most major sports abandoned regular testing. He recalled having to talk to a female athlete and reveal that she had XY chromosomes and that she’d be infertile. It’s something that shouldn’t splash onto television, newspapers and the Internet, he said.

“It’s a severe emotional trauma,” Elsas said.

The concern that women with XY chromosomes have a competitive advantage “is malarkey. We don’t segregate athletes by height,” said Genel, speaking from an international endocrinology conference in New York that has sessions on intersex issues.

Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, past president of the American College of Medical Genetics and a member of the IAAF panel, agreed: “Any elite athlete … has a competitive advantage, or otherwise they wouldn’t be an elite athlete.”

Simpson, associate dean at Florida International University, said the issue should be simply whether men are masquerading as women. Semenya is clearly a woman, he said.

Nearly all the disorders are caused by genetic mutations, Simpson said. And they usually happen in the first eight weeks of pregnancy, he said.

There are many types of sexual development disorders, all of them rare, but they add up, the experts said. Depending on the particular disorder and individual condition, treatment could involve surgery or hormone therapy or both. The issue is often not just what sex to assign the child, but when to assign it. It used to be that doctors pushed surgery on babies; now many times they wait. Sometimes they wait until the patient is old enough to help make a decision.

David Sandberg, a pediatric psychologist at Michigan, said he advises families to go slowly when deciding whether to raise their child as a boy or girl or whether to have surgery. Treatment varies depending on the disorder, but has become more conservative over the years, he said.

But that’s when the problem is noticeable. When it comes to some athletes like Semenya, it’s not even known until tests reveal it.

Maria Martinez-Patino knows the issue firsthand. A world-class athlete, she was raised and looked like a normal female and even received the needed “certificate of feminity” to participate in the 1983 World Track and Field Championships in Helsinki, Finland.

In 1985 at the World University Games in Kobe, Japan, her test came back with an XY and she was not allowed to compete. Martinez-Patino had androgen insensitivity, meaning she didn’t respond to testosterone. That meant she also didn’t have a competitive advantage from having an XY chromosome.

“I sat in the stands that day watching my teammates, wondering how my body differed from theirs,” she wrote in the medical journal The Lancet in 2005. “I spent the rest of that week in my room, feeling a sadness that I could not share.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ys-intersexplight090913&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Legend]

South Africa accused of cover-up over Caster Semenya gender tests



South African athletics officials were yesterday accused of a cover-up over gender tests conducted on Caster Semenya before the World Athletics Championships.

Athletics South Africa (ASA) has always denied authorising tests on the 18-year-old before she left for Berlin, insisting that it had no reason to consider withdrawing her. But the country's Mail & Guardian newspaper said it had obtained an email exchange which exposed this as a lie.

Semenya, who won gold in the women's 800m, was tested at the Medforum Medi-clinic in Pretoria early last month, the paper said. ASA yesterday continued to vehemently deny the reports.

The Mail & Guardian published an email it said was sent by Harold Adams, the doctor of the South African team, to the ASA general manager, Molatelo Malehopo, and copied to its president, Leonard Chuene, on 5 August. The championships began on 15 August.

The email read: "After thinking about the current confidential matter I would suggest that we make the following decisions. 1: We get a gynae opinion and take it to Berlin. 2: We do nothing and I will handle these issues if they come up in Berlin. Please think and get back to me ASAP."

An emailed response from Malehopo to Adams, sent on the same day, read: "I will suggest that you go ahead with the necessary tests that the IAAF might need."

Chuene has repeatedly maintained that no tests were conducted in South Africa before the event. He has also denied that ASA authorised and paid for the tests.

There were further damaging allegations from the coach turned whistleblower Wilfred Daniels, who said that Adams asked Chuene to withdraw Semenya from the team, but Chuene refused.

Daniels told South Africa's eNews channel: "Two days after Caster won the world championships, the media frenzy about her gender was at its height and we were called to a team meeting. The manager informed us … the team doctor advised the president to withdraw Caster, but the president refused."

He added that everyone at the meeting was warned that the matter was "delicate" so they should not speak to the media.

Daniels also claims the teenager was duped into humiliating gender tests in South Africa. He recalled a conversation with Semenya on 9 August, a rest day in Berlin: "She said, 'Look, this is what happened in South Africa and this is how it happened.' I was like, 'Jesus!'

"The athlete wasn't briefed on what kind of tests they were going to do in South Africa. The tests were done on 7 August, according to her. They told her it was random anti-doping tests. She's been tested many times before, she understands the procedure for providing a urine sample or giving a blood sample.

"But when she went to the hospital in Pretoria it was different tests completely. She didn't understand what kind of tests they were. It was very embarrassing. She said photographs were taken of very private parts of her body."

Chuene, Malehopo and Adams were unavailable for comment. ASA strongly denied the latest reports and it will appear before parliament next week to explain its role in the affair.

Meanwhile the South African government has lodged an official complaint with the United Nations over Semenya's treatment by the International Association of Athletics (IAAF), which ordered its own gender tests after her victory. Noluthando Mayende-Sibiya, South Africa's minister for women and children, accuses the IAAF of failing to safeguard the confidentiality of the runner whose sex has become the subject of global debate and speculation. She said the organisation showed "blatant disregard" for Semenya's "human dignity". The complaint, made on Monday, asks the UN Division for the Advancement of Women to investigate the matter.

The saga has infuriated South Africa's governing African National Congress, which described the testing as "sexist and racist". Last week Makhenkesi Stofile, the sports minister, threatened a "third world war" if Semenya was banned from competing because of her gender.

The IAAF has refused to confirm or deny allegations that Semenya is intersex after Australian media reported that tests showed she has both male and female sex organs. The organisation has said that Semenya is unlikely to be stripped of her gold medal, but confirmed four athletes in earlier cases were "asked to stop their career".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/18/caster-semenya-gender-tests-south-africa

[Silcc69]

Good ole Legend..........

[SarahG]

Bump



The shameful case of Caster Semenya

By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports Columnist 3 hours, 30 minutes ago

Looks like South African runner Caster Semenya will be able to keep the gold medal she won at the recent world championships in Berlin.

The public humiliation? That will stay with her, too, long after the gold loses its shine.

Three months after she mopped up the field in the women’s 800, international sports officials are trying to tie a ribbon on a deal that will likely allow Semenya to keep the world title and prize money she won in Berlin. They’re also planning a symposium to make sure the next person they suspect is a man in a female track outfit is at least treated with a bit of decency.

Semenya could also be spared the further indignity of the public release of her most private medical records. If things are handled right, the world may never know the intimate details of her gender tests.

Sadly, it’s all too late for the teenager whose worst offense seems to be that she believes she’s a woman while the people who look at how fast she runs can’t believe she’s not a man.

Because there’s no deal that can undo the damage already done, no deal that can give Semenya back her self-respect.

And there may never be a way to make a deal to allow her to run again.

Just how it all got to this point is a tale that goes beyond the seemingly simple question of man versus woman. Semenya was always going to draw stares in her first appearance on the world stage simply because of how she looks, but what happened to her in Berlin was shameful beyond description.

South Africa was so desperate to end a medal drought in the world championships that the country’s track chief agreed to the unusual—and unprecedented—request by the International Association of Athletics Federations to have gender tests done on Semenya. Then, just hours before she was to run, the IAAF took it upon itself to announce it was investigating whether she was really a woman.

Semenya went out and blew the competition away anyway, running so fast it looked like the other runners were mired in quicksand. She won by nearly two and a half seconds, finishing in 1:55.45, and accepting the congratulations of her fellow runners.

It should have been a triumphant moment in the life of an 18-year-old from a small South African village. It became a media circus where the biggest debate wasn’t how fast she ran, but how to figure out if she was telling the truth about what she really was.

It used to be easier for Semenya, whose athletic physique and deep voice always raised suspicion. She faced the same questions before, but there was a simpler way of answering them then.

An article in the current issue of the New Yorker quotes one of her former coaches as saying that she became accustomed at having to go into the restroom with a member of the opposing team so they could look at her private parts before they would race against her back home.

It’s not so easy now. The question of gender is a muddled one at best, particularly for a tiny portion of the population born with the physical characteristics of both genders or chromosome disorders. One reason mandatory gender testing for female athletes in the Olympics was dropped in 1999 was that not all women have standard female chromosomes.

The IAAF has refused to confirm or deny Australian media reports that the tests indicate Semenya has both male and female sex organs. Her family, though, has always been sure of her gender.

“What can I do when they call her a man, when she’s really not a man?” her paternal grandmother, Maputhi Sekgala, told the South African daily The Times. “It is God who made her look that way.”

Her grandmother isn’t her only backer. Many in South Africa have come to her defense, suggesting that both ignorance and racism contributed to the public spectacle in Berlin.

Semenya, meanwhile, has begun college and is still training. But the attention has taken its toll.

“It’s not so easy,” she recently told the Guardian newspaper. “The university is OK but there is not many other places I can go. People want to stare at me now. They want to touch me. I’m supposed to be famous.

“I don’t think I like it so much.”

She may not like the future much better. Though technically still allowed to compete, that could change depending on both the results of her tests and new guidelines for dealing with “ambiguous” gender tests that the International Olympic Committee will look at in January.

Even if Semenya gets the green light, it’s hard to imagine how she can run knowing every eye in every stadium will be studying her intently, trying to determine if she is really a he.

Yes, it will be nice if track officials make amends by allowing her to keep her gold medal and $60,000 first prize.

Would be even nicer if they could give her back her dignity, too.

Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at tdahlberg(at)ap.org

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-timdahlberg-112109&prov=ap&type=lgns