USA healthcare

[hyperspace]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

[chefmike]

How about putting ketchup and mustard in the same jar....

Good idea?? :wink:

[SarahG]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Depends on how minor it is. The only people who pay sticker price for medical treatments in the US (right now anyway) are people without health care.

It could be cheaper to just catch a flight to London.

[jaycanuck]

If it's like here (don't know if it is), you couldn't do that. I have to have a health card in my province to get free health care.

[shemale-411]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Hmmm. so it's that easy? I figured you had to be a citizen of the UK. Well hell, I'm surprised everyone needing expensive cancer treatments doesnt just fly there then.

[hyperspace]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Hmmm. so it's that easy? I figured you had to be a citizen of the UK. Well hell, I'm surprised everyone needing expensive cancer treatments doesnt just fly there then.

i said MINOR treatments like broken arms etc

[chefmike]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Hmmm. so it's that easy? I figured you had to be a citizen of the UK. Well hell, I'm surprised everyone needing expensive cancer treatments doesnt just fly there then.

i said MINOR treatments like broken arms etc

Fly from the US to to the UK to get a broken arm treated....sounds like a lovely flight....makes perfect sense to me...

[Helvis2012]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.



Before you book a flight, you should know it doesn't work that way. In the end, it would probably wind up costing more and worse, the care in the UK is not as good as care in the US. I would advise someone against that plan.

Good idea??

[BLKGSXR]

If it's like here (don't know if it is), you couldn't do that. I have to have a health card in my province to get free health care. your a canuck though lol. No offense Jay you seem cool dude- But canada got some weird fucking things going on- Nationalizing health care is not a smart idea-(imo)

[jaycanuck]

If it's like here (don't know if it is), you couldn't do that. I have to have a health card in my province to get free health care. your a canuck though lol. No offense Jay you seem cool dude- But canada got some weird fucking things going on- Nationalizing health care is not a smart idea-(imo)

I don't have any issues with you..but on this point, you're dead wrong. I have a cut, broken leg, sick, need a checkup, blood tests...whatever....FREE. And that's for anyone...poor or rich.

[BeardedOne]

How about putting ketchup and mustard in the same jar....

Good idea?? :wink:

Hey, it worked for Smucker's (Remember Goober Jelly?). :lol:

OK, it was horrid, but people still bought it. :roll:

[BLKGSXR]

If it's like here (don't know if it is), you couldn't do that. I have to have a health card in my province to get free health care. your a canuck though lol. No offense Jay you seem cool dude- But canada got some weird fucking things going on- Nationalizing health care is not a smart idea-(imo)

I don't have any issues with you..but on this point, you're dead wrong. I have a cut, broken leg, sick, need a checkup, blood tests...whatever....FREE. And that's for anyone...poor or rich.Well isnt there like some bullshit 6 month wait on certain things in canada?
Well I guess the National Health care works for canada-Maybe Obamas team of so called expert should take better notes :lol:

In my case im not one who likes going to the doctor if I have a mere cold or flu. If I break a bone I will of course but if its not serious why waste the money on co-payments.

[trish]

An American colleague of mine broke his leg in Berlin this summer. It was bad compound fracture that landed him in the hospital for nearly a fortnight. The health care system there took care of almost everything. I don’t know why people here in the U.S. are such cowards when it comes to holding out a helping hand to their fellow human beings. Most Americans over 65 love their medicare. They’ll die before they’d let you take it away from them. (just like most retired Americans love Social Security). But offer to extend the base of that coverage to Americans of all ages and it’s suddenly socialism. Suggest that medicare be extended to cover hospice care and suddenly it’s “death panels.” Well right now it’s private insurance companies that run the “death panels.” They decide whether or not to continue your care or boot you off their roles. If you have a parent or a grandparent suffering from cancer, for example, you probably already know how big the bills are and how much your insurance non-provider pays. Greed isn’t always a virtue. It hardly ever is.

[jaycanuck]

Well I guess the National Health care works for canada-Maybe Obamas team of so called expert should take better notes :lol:

In my case im not one who likes going to the doctor if I have a mere cold or flu. If I break a bone I will of course but if its not serious why waste the money on co-payments.

It's true there is a wait in the doctors office. But I mean...if you go in there with with a gunshot wound they'll let you in ahead. But the most I waited was about 4-5 hours.

And this waiting thing didn't start until funding cuts happened in the early 90s...even though the number 1 issue in the country is health care. It's our elected officials fault.

In the end though...I'm very happy that I don't have to pay thousands of dollars for health care.

[StephanieDee]

hi i'm from england and the health care is only free to residents of the uk.If you do happen to be here on holiday you will be treated but you will be charged ,we pay for our health care in advance through our national insurance . Which comes straight out of your wages just like tax . Also if you are on long term sick you have to pay perscription charges which is about £9.00 per item (100 paracetomol is one item and it is usually cheaper to buy them over the counter ).
Health tourism costs up to 200mill http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3355751.stm
you wouldn't pay the builder who fixes your roof so why wouldn't you pay the doctor who fixes you broken leg ?

[BLKGSXR]

Well I guess the National Health care works for canada-Maybe Obamas team of so called expert should take better notes :lol:

In my case im not one who likes going to the doctor if I have a mere cold or flu. If I break a bone I will of course but if its not serious why waste the money on co-payments.

It's true there is a wait in the doctors office. But I mean...if you go in there with with a gunshot wound they'll let you in ahead. But the most I waited was about 4-5 hours.

And this waiting thing didn't start until funding cuts happened in the early 90s...even though the number 1 issue in the country is health care. It's our elected officials fault.

In the end though...I'm very happy that I don't have to pay thousands of dollars for health care.ok you got me there I think last year I paid about 1500 between the 2 of my insurance companies >_<

[jaycanuck]

ok you got me there I think last year I paid about 1500 between the 2 of my insurance companies >_<

I just hate our elected officials. I mean...mind you...they're all stupid and no major scandals to speak of...but they know full well that healthcare is the #1 item. I'll pay taxes through the nose.. I don't mind. Before the cuts it was a really beautiful thing. I mean...it still is...just could be better. Ontario in the 90s was the worst. I wasn't here then..but Mike Harris cut health care spending and slashed nurse positions. We're still recovering from that fuckup.

An extra thing and I'll get off my soap box lol. For the tgirls here, in a few of the provinces it's possible to get gov. funding for SRS. Funny enough Alberta (very conservative) is one and I think Ontario is bringing it back. BC had it for sometime. Because health care is managed provincially it varies.

[SarahG]

Well I guess the National Health care works for canada-Maybe Obamas team of so called expert should take better notes :lol:

In my case im not one who likes going to the doctor if I have a mere cold or flu. If I break a bone I will of course but if its not serious why waste the money on co-payments.

It's true there is a wait in the doctors office. But I mean...if you go in there with with a gunshot wound they'll let you in ahead. But the most I waited was about 4-5 hours.

And this waiting thing didn't start until funding cuts happened in the early 90s...even though the number 1 issue in the country is health care. It's our elected officials fault.

In the end though...I'm very happy that I don't have to pay thousands of dollars for health care.


To be fair we have some pretty major wait problems here in the US depending on the scenario.

In parts of the US with large populations of illegals, the wait times in our ER's are unbelievable... because they use the ER's as free health clinics for everything (ingrown toe nails, colds, everything) since they have no other way to get it.

Then there simply aren't enough doctors to go around for some specialties. If you're lucky, your wait time will be 6 months in getting an appointment with a dermatologist. That's if you're lucky, there isn't one at all that I can find in my area that is accepting new patients.

[trish]

Not only illegals but anyone without insurance will use the ER's for ordinary health care. The cost is passed on to those with insurance. It would be more efficient if neighborhoods had clinics that were open 24/7 to provide for ordinary health issues. ER's would be clear to handle real emergencies and their staffs wouldn't be overwrought and overworked.

Nobody thinks municipal fire departments is socialism. Yet they are government run agencies, paid for by taxpayers and they help all those who need their help. Everyone sees the need for a fire department, yet most people will never require their services. Health care should work on the same principle with a difference in scale. Since more people will eventually require medical services, more people need to be in the pool. We need a public heath care option. I would've preferred single payer, but that's the compromise the liberals have offered. I can't support any new national health care system if it doesn't have at least a public option.

[BellaBellucci]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Depends on how minor it is. The only people who pay sticker price for medical treatments in the US (right now anyway) are people without health care.

It could be cheaper to just catch a flight to London.

... and transsexuals. :(

~BB~

[SarahG]

Not only illegals but anyone without insurance will use the ER's for ordinary health care. The cost is passed on to those with insurance. It would be more efficient if neighborhoods had clinics that were open 24/7 to provide for ordinary health issues. ER's would be clear to handle real emergencies and their staffs wouldn't be overwrought and overworked.


Its somewhat different for citizens without insurance, because for them they can simply be thrown in debt for it, and since they're a citizen that can be tracked (SSA etc) the debt "sticks" and they either pay it, or are forced into bankruptcy, or more realistically; both. You can't easily repro an illegal's car, and you can't use collections agencies to garnish their wages.

The people with insurance really don't pay for as much of it as some people think. That's why they charge differently depending on whether or not you have insurance. If you have insurance, you're charged a very small price for a given procedure because they know the insurance company will pay it and so the two institutions basically "agree" to the price. In fact how it usually works is the health care provider tells the hospital what they're going to be paid, and the hospital sucks it up and takes whatever they get. So the "sticker price" might be $1000 for a treatment, but the insurance company might say "Ok, we think its worth $750 and of that we'll pay $500" so the hospital gets $500 and then the patient comes up with another $250 to get to $750.

The person without insurance will get charged significantly more, say twice as much ($1000)- because the hospital knows they might not be able to pay the full thing, and they may only ever get half of the price ($500) through collections agencies (and some of that will have to go to pay for the collections process).

In any case, the people that really pay for it are the ones without insurance, when they can afford to pay the bill in full. They pay astonishingly more simply because they don't have that middle-man to go "well we think this surgery is only really worth $750."

[SarahG]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Depends on how minor it is. The only people who pay sticker price for medical treatments in the US (right now anyway) are people without health care.

It could be cheaper to just catch a flight to London.

... and transsexuals. :(

~BB~

Usually hrt & therapy is covered when someone has insurance.

The trans exclusionary clauses are very rarely more detailed then "trans surgeries or surgery related drugs." Its not common to see a plan that actually lists HRT or therapy in their trans exclusion clause.

[beantown]

What bothers me the most with this heath care dispute is the that lengths the opponents will go to distract the public. They try to work up the uninformed with statements and twisted truths. Take the Sarah Palin's claim that President Obama’s health-care plan features “death panels” that will give patients the thumbs up or thumbs down? Just that, if this were Obama’s plan, it would have more in common with our current system than you might think.

In Palin’s fantasy, the death-panel “bureaucrats” were going to pick winners and losers based on a judgment about their “level of productivity in society.” Well, if you view income as a gauge of a person’s productivity in society—and God knows there are Republicans who do—then the quality of health care is already correlated with “productivity in society.” Obama’s plan, by making health care more affordable to lower income people, would make that less true.

This is just another way of making a point already made by Peter Singer in response to less delusional concerns about the possibility of rationing under Obama’s plan: we already ration health care; we just let the market do the rationing.

Any government health care plan will bring some new form of “rationing,” since no government can afford to guarantee everyone all possible medical treatment. But let’s be clear: the people who are trying to sabotage reform by telling mind-boggling lies about its hidden rationing agenda seem, in fact, pretty content with rationing; they seem happy with a system in which the least “productive” members of society get bad health care, including, occasionally, health care so bad that it leads to death.


Now mind you I am not a 100% behind the Obama's health care plan, but we need to start someplace. Leaving health care to the insurance companies is just not a solution. When you have a for profit company selling a product which in this case is health coverage there are only a number of ways they can increase the companies revenues. You can charge more for your product (health coverage), you could charge the same but pay out less, or at least what I have been seeing the insurance companies doing is BOTH. You pay more these days for co-pays/weekly pay contribution and you have to go to the doctors and health care providers they have chosen for you or pay more out of pocket. I think this would not be such a problem if I could chose my own insurance and let the consumer market push the better product to the top, but you can't you employer picks your provider based on what they get to save. My only chose is to get another job that carries a different health care provider.


I don't know this whole thing just stinks of bureaucracy 50 layers deep with all kinds of special interest groups in between.

[flabbybody]

Sarah Palin is saying Obama's plan will decide who gets treatment and who's left to die

hey u stupid cunt, that's what we got now. Your HMO exec decides which procedure you'll be reimbursed for and what provider you're allowed to see.
and if the med your doctor says you need isn't on the list, you aint getting it

[BellaBellucci]

If I was an American with no insurance and needed minor treatment I'd just get a flight to the UK and be treated for free.

I'm sure the flight would be cheaper than most excess charges.

Good idea??

Depends on how minor it is. The only people who pay sticker price for medical treatments in the US (right now anyway) are people without health care.

It could be cheaper to just catch a flight to London.

... and transsexuals. :(

~BB~

Usually hrt & therapy is covered when someone has insurance.

The trans exclusionary clauses are very rarely more detailed then "trans surgeries or surgery related drugs." Its not common to see a plan that actually lists HRT or therapy in their trans exclusion clause.

Sure, private insurers maybe, but I know I'm on Medi-Cal and every year I have to fight with them to get them to cover my hormones. I take 6 2mg tabs a day and the normal dose for a born woman with a 'thyroid condition' (they had to 'diagnose' me with one in order for me to get anything) is 1 tab. In fact, I have to go pick some up today and I have to pay out of pocket because they're still trying to get this approved nearly two weeks later.

Last year I couldn't even GET my doctor to prescribe the meds and had to pay to see yet another doctor to get them. This year I went back and DEMANDED she write me a script after I was molested by the endocrinologist she demanded I see the year before and had already been on HRT for 2 years. NOT TO MENTION... the prescription for one month is only $20 and yet this is a problem for me year in and year out. Trust me: insurers, public and private, have no love for transsexuals.

~BB~

[Silcc69]

This is what the politicians get.

http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/health_care_for_the_us_congress

FUCKIN AWESOME!

[SarahG]

Sure, private insurers maybe, but I know I'm on Medi-Cal and every year I have to fight with them to get them to cover my hormones. I take 6 2mg tabs a day and the normal dose for a born woman with a 'thyroid condition' (they had to 'diagnose' me with one in order for me to get anything) is 1 tab.

That's not because you're trans so much as because that's how restrictive health care programs deal with RX's.

Basically a restrictive plan, to save money, sets up a large computer database that basically goes:

Condition - drug type - typical range of dosages

This way, say someone gets chronic migraines, they go to fill relpax and the database says:

Migraines - Replax - 4-8 pills per month

Since the database lists "4-8" the system won't authorize/pay for a slip that tries to give you say, 10 per month. Even though that's really what you need, because you get 3 migraines per week. Most HMO's do it the same way as the gov.

Works fine until you either need more rx's then what the database lists, or you need an RX for a condition not listed in the database. Like, suppose they wanted to put you on imtrix (a migraine rx) for something blood related, since imitrx isn't listed as an rx under a cardo condition, it won't let you have imitrx for a cardo diagnosis.

Then the really restrictive plans will actually have two sets of databases, one for girls & one for guys. Even more complicated ones take age into consideration. This is, iirc, how the feds work right now- so they see that you're in the system as a GB and therefore have you use that database which lists even lower estrogen amounts because it assumes no GB would need more than that since they're not GG's.

..this is why many gov run programs, and HMO programs, will cover mammograms for women but not for guys. It doesn't matter that more guys die from breast cancer than penal-cancer, since they have the guys assigned a separate database they cannot access the funds for breast cancer screening while giving guys the option to get screened for penal-cancer.

Believe me, I've gone through this before for many conditions I've had that put me on higher-than-typical dosages; and this doesn't even touch on when the databases force people to use generic brands (which is a problem when you're allergic to a generic version of a brand name drug).

[Nowhere]

Look, i've assessed this, and nothing proposed solves anything. The VAST majority of medical costs comprise either (A) people in the last year or so of life (B) uninsured people not paying into the system or (C) excessive testing / procedures based on doctors doing CYA so they aren't sued.

What people really need to do is sit down and ask themselves "How do we make a system that is affordable and covers people as much as possible?"

The answer they'll find is not what they'll like. They'll have to (A) not let people extend their lives for their last years under insurance (B) force uninsured people to not be covered by all plans, and in certain cases dying as a result (C) disallowing any medical tort suits, ever (D) making people responsible for their health, and paying based on how good or bad they take care of themselves (E) making some protective procedures not taken due to the cost bared by all and (F) making all insurers nonprofit, to strip down costs to the bone.

But, nothing here is ever addressed, so this problem is nowhere closer to being solved.

P.S. All the brainless people screaming "i'm scared of socialism" - Healthcare done en masse, manaed by an oligopoly is socialistic by definition. The cost is spread by all. So, whether you are having the government run it (even though I admit it's a likely poor job) or the current insurers, most of the mechanics of the economics are the same.

So long as the Hippocratic Oath continues to be followed and ALL people are serviced, it will forever be socialistic, by nature. The cost is paid by all and taken by all. Think about it.

[Alyssa87]

damn all you damn socialists with free care!

i'm freggin jealous :p

[BellaBellucci]

Sure, private insurers maybe, but I know I'm on Medi-Cal and every year I have to fight with them to get them to cover my hormones. I take 6 2mg tabs a day and the normal dose for a born woman with a 'thyroid condition' (they had to 'diagnose' me with one in order for me to get anything) is 1 tab.

That's not because you're trans so much as because that's how restrictive health care programs deal with RX's. ...


True, but it's still a pain in the ass.

Anyway, I'll be right back. I have to go to Target to BUY a whole $4 worth of hormones now. lol

~BB~

[jaycanuck]

I know this'll probably stir some people here...but I just gotta say....you guys need to get on a socialized health care plan.

Saturday night I went to the hospital - $0

Specialist - $0

If I had a plan, my medication would be lower...but considering that was the only thing I had to pay..I'm very happy with that.

On another note, I saw a sign as to how much you had to pay if you didn't have a health card... $400+

[Coroner]

I´m glad our health care is free. This is the most important thing a state´s gotta do for its citizens, otherwise it´s not a damn state.

[notdrunk]

I know this'll probably stir some people here...but I just gotta say....you guys need to get on a socialized health care plan.

Saturday night I went to the hospital - $0

Specialist - $0

If I had a plan, my medication would be lower...but considering that was the only thing I had to pay..I'm very happy with that.

On another note, I saw a sign as to how much you had to pay if you didn't have a health card... $400+

It isn't free. You pay for your health care through your taxes; however, you are free to continue to think it is "free".

[jaycanuck]

I know this'll probably stir some people here...but I just gotta say....you guys need to get on a socialized health care plan.

Saturday night I went to the hospital - $0

Specialist - $0

If I had a plan, my medication would be lower...but considering that was the only thing I had to pay..I'm very happy with that.

On another note, I saw a sign as to how much you had to pay if you didn't have a health card... $400+

It isn't free. You pay for your health care through your taxes; however, you are free to continue to think it is "free".

You're correct. I should have said "I didn't have to give my first born child for basic health care"

[Kareninfife]

One wonders what would have happened if Obama had NOT bailed out A.I.G. and its subsiduary companies who provide Health Care Insurance? Basically everyone would have lost their money paid in in premiums and those policies would have ceased to exist - result - No Health Care. A.I.G. & Co would have no money to pay for any Health Care, so no Health Care would be paid for and the Hospitals and Doctors would then refuse to undertake any. Result would have been a total break down in the Health Care system in the US.

So if you actually sit down and analyse the system, the US actually have a STATE OWNED Health Service, albeit it is administered by A.I.G. & Co. The only thing which is missing is the Health Care required to be provided to teh 75 Million Americans who do not have enough Health Care Insurance.

The cost of running the UK NHS is approximately 8% of GDP, in the US it is over 16%. No wonder teh Bankers get rich while the ordinany Americans suffer - and it is going to get worse.

The UK NHS provides some of the BEST treatment you can get - FREE - same as in Cuba. Just wonder what the Americans would say if they knew that most of the vaccines used in the word are manufactured in CUBA in their STATE RUN HEALTH SERVICE.

G.M and Chrysler are another bail-out situation, if they had not been bailed out - mass unemployment and people unable to pay for anything - even food.

So much for the Great American Dream - DREAM being the operative word.

A word to the WALLY who thinks he can come to the UK to be treated free - DREAM ON. Yes, you will be treated (the UK NHS, unlike the US Health Care, will treat anyone in pain or distress, but before you get out of the country you will have to pay the bill - whatever it costs.