Mischelle Sabrina: TG Kills Long Time Girlfriend

[2009AD]

Mason City native charged in wife's murder near KC
Thursday, July 16, 2009, 11:27 AM
by Bob Fisher, KRIB, Mason City
A murder late Tuesday in suburban Kansas City has left a Mason City native dead and another Mason City native jailed on a murder charge. The Kansas City Star newspaper reports that court records show that 37-year-old Michael Adams Junior is charged with second-degree murder in the death of 36-year-old Amber Hartwig. Both were 1991 graduates of Mason City High School.

Court records say that Hartwig's 18-year-old daughter found her mother dead on the floor of the couple's house with her father sitting next to her smoking a cigarette. Adams was also shot in the incident at about 10:30 PM in Belton, Missouri, which is about 20 miles south of downtown Kansas City. Police say they think Adams also shot himself and sustained a superficial wound to his chest after shooting Hartwig in the head with a 45-caliber handgun.

The court records say that on the night of the shootings, Adams attempted to jump from the car during a family trip to the grocery store and was restrained by his daughter. After returning home, Hartwig told the children she was leaving for the night and would take them with her. The daughter said that moments later she heard gunshots, called 9-1-1 and stated that Adams had shot Hartwig, with the dispatcher telling her to get her brother and get out of the house.

Adams apparently for a year or two had been considering a sex change operation as he was dressing as a woman, taking hormones to grow breasts, and was using the female name of Mischelle Sabrina Adams on his Facebook account.


7-22-09

Adams makes first appearance in Hartwig death

By The Associated Press
HARRISONVILLE, Mo.— Relatives and witnesses say a 37-year-old Belton man accused of shooting the mother of his two children had been arguing with her because he had started dressing as a woman.

Michael Adams Jr. made his first appearance Monday in Cass County Circuit Court on a charge of second-degree murder. Adams was released earlier from a hospital where he had been treated for a superficial, self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Police said Amber Hartwig, 36, was shot in the head with a .45 caliber handgun. Michael S. Adams, 37, was charged last Wednesday with second-degree murder and armed criminal action and is being held on $1 million bond in the Cass County, Mo., jail.

Hartwig was a 1991 graduate of Mason City High School. Adams attended Mason City High School but did not graduate.

He reportedly liked to dress in women’s clothing and had a Facebook social networking account in which he went by “Mischelle Sabrina Adams.”

According to court papers, the couple’s 18-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son were in their bedrooms when the daughter heard two gunshots. She went to find out what happened and found her mother dead on the kitchen floor with her father sitting nearby, smoking a cigarette.

The daughter called 911. Hartwig was determined to be dead at the scene.

Neighbors said Adams had been dressing as a woman for more than a year.

—The Globe Gazette contributed to this story

[yodajazz]

Thanks for the item of interest. But sometimes people just need to let go of bad relationhips, and realize that there is someone else who will love them for who they are. And this is a real example of a person who gives trans people a bad name.

[phobun]

The freak never finished high school, so perhaps he is a bit retarded too.

[Nicole Dupre]

Tragic.

And I think what's most disturbing is how far off the mark public perception generally was on these forums.

Everyone thought "Mischelle" was just some young, confused, struggling tranny.

But the reality was; a homicidal, 6'2" crossdresser was getting an alarming amount of false validation from the various faceless cock-bandits on a shemale porn forum.

[Nicole Dupre]

And this is a real example of a person who gives trans people a bad name.

Cosign.

[raiku9909]

sad and crazy =(

[Dirky]

You were right all along, Nicole.

Still, what a tragedy. My heart goes out to their daughter. I can't begin to imagine what's going on in that young girl's mind.

[phobun]

This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

[Nicole Dupre]

This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

Stop defending your simpleton's stance with psuedo-intellectual horseshhit.

And stop advertising that you think shemale porn is gay, or please just leave the damn forum. You obviously have an obsolete perspective, AND you have contempt for ALL pre-ops. You are no friend of this board.

[SidInNy]

No cock pic?

:lol:

[Silcc69]

This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

http://blogs.townonline.com/cambridge/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lol1.jpg

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I thought that was her. Sad!

~Kisses.

HTG

[Distance]

The facebook profile still exists...and I am pretty sure I saw this awful face somewhere here.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Mischelle+Sabrina+Adams&init=quick#/mischelle.sabrina?hiq=mischelle%2Csabrina%2Cadams&ref=search&__a=1

I'd not mock it badly, but I agree that there are many of these characters roaming around here. Quite scary...big meaty porky dudes with toupees, nothing feminine at all. :lol:


I think really that this guy just killed the woman, as in something he could never be. Killed her so he could overcome, then become her.

[2009AD]

No cock pic? :lol:

A woman was murdered, two young people lost their mother. Nothing funny about that.

[yodajazz]

Tragic.

And I think what's most disturbing is how far off the mark public perception generally was on these forums.

Everyone thought "Mischelle" was just some young, confused, struggling tranny.

But the reality was; a homicidal, 6'2" crossdresser was getting an alarming amount of false validation from the various faceless cock-bandits on a shemale porn forum.

I dont think that validation from admirers was the problem. It would seem to me that if this person got enough validation they could have left the marriage peacefully to seek another life. Many do this, not many muder someone.


This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.
This is very judgmental of you. How can you question the mental state of people you do not even know? So only pretty young things can transistion? The same argument you used can be used against all transexuals. And if you can attack all, then why are you here?
I say that you are one of those "cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators". Hey, but thanks for posting.

[tsmandy]

I am still feeling very sad about this. "Mischelle" wrote many of us frequently over on another board, and it feels like a kick to the stomach. We all knew she was crazy, Nicole was the only one who ever called a spade a spade. I strongly recommend that you guys deal with this with a fair amount of tact, because many of us are trying to cope with the gravity of the situation.

[yodajazz]

No cock pic? :lol:

A woman was murdered, two young people lost their mother. Nothing funny about that.

I think they were joking; trying to bring some levity in a tragic situation, I hope. Kinda of poing fun at the forum in general.

[thx1138]

is complete

[Nicole Dupre]

I dont think that validation from admirers was the problem. It would seem to me that if this person got enough validation they could have left the marriage peacefully to seek another life. Many do this, not many muder someone.



FALSE validation is what the problem was, which is a form of enabling imo.

IRL you get the reality checks on what passes and what doesn't. Online, you can get praise for simply telling stories and providing a few pics.

[tsmandy]

What is complete bullshit?

[tsmandy]

I dont think that validation from admirers was the problem. It would seem to me that if this person got enough validation they could have left the marriage peacefully to seek another life. Many do this, not many muder someone.



FALSE validation is what the problem was, which is a form of enabling imo.

IRL you get the reality checks on what passes and what doesn't. Online, you can get praise for simply telling stories and providing a few pics.

I agree that there were definitely way too many guys on HD who were blowing smoke up her ass and telling her how great she was. Guys were defending her regardless of the insanity she spewed, honestly I wasn't shocked when I found out, just sick to my stomach.

[Nicole Dupre]

is completeWtf's that supposed to mean?

Are you speaking with pics now too, just like your psycho killer homie, tsbrenda?

Death, and specifically murder, are both funny to you though, right? So are you having a good laugh? I really hope so.

[SarahG]

For the people who don't post or lurk much anywhere else, what's the full story here?

[Steve-Oh]

Truly sad.
I knew Mischelle had a lot of darkness about her but had no idea she was a father of 2 and was still living with the family.
Regardless of her living arrangment, the news of this murder is still shocking.

[BellaBellucci]

This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

Stop defending your simpleton's stance with psuedo-intellectual horseshhit.

And stop advertising that you think shemale porn is gay, or please just leave the damn forum. You obviously have an obsolete perspective, AND you have contempt for ALL pre-ops. You are no friend of this board.

Sorry, but right is right even if the truth isn't pretty. Phobun FTW.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Tragic.

And I think what's most disturbing is how far off the mark public perception generally was on these forums.

Everyone thought "Mischelle" was just some young, confused, struggling tranny.

But the reality was; a homicidal, 6'2" crossdresser was getting an alarming amount of false validation from the various faceless cock-bandits on a shemale porn forum.

I dont think that validation from admirers was the problem. It would seem to me that if this person got enough validation they could have left the marriage peacefully to seek another life. Many do this, not many muder someone.

You can't leave a marriage 'peacefully to seek another life' if the ONLY validation comes from this board. 'Admirers' are just going to do what Phobun said: pay in validation. Well you can't survive on validation. These guys aren't going to buy any porn or escorting services from her or hire her for a job or otherwise provide her the financial means to move on and if she thought they would then I doubt this would have happened. This is clearly a person who didn't get validation ANYWHERE else and lost hope for a normal life. Period.



This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

This is very judgmental of you. How can you question the mental state of people you do not even know? So only pretty young things can transistion? The same argument you used can be used against all transexuals. And if you can attack all, then why are you here?
I say that you are one of those "cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators". Hey, but thanks for posting.

Judgmental? Yes. Logical? Also yes. Right? Maybe not for everyone but certainly for the majority of our straight, cisgendered population it is. And whether or not you know a person is irrelevant to making logical conclusions in what is now a very public affair, especially when the person in question kills someone. I'm sorry but they automatically lose their right to the 'you don't know me argument,' along with their soul.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

For the people who don't post or lurk much anywhere else, what's the full story here?

Mischelle was a frequent poster on HD who presented themselves as a young TS and often times posted really intense and hostile messages. She wrote many of us frequently and was quite prone to expressing her feelings of rage and alienation. She also had a handful of guys who fawned over her and spoke with her frequently.

Supposedly she had split ways with her partner a year ago, evidently she didn't.

[tsmandy]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

[BellaBellucci]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

PS: I'm seeing that she also wasn't treated well by a lot of the girls on the HA and HD boards (some still call her 'he') while she was SIMULTANEOUSLY attempting to reside in the dream world created for her by her admirers. Never a good combo.

[tsmandy]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

[SarahG]

You can't leave a marriage 'peacefully to seek another life' if the ONLY validation comes from this board. 'Admirers' are just going to do what Phobun said: pay in validation. Well you can't survive on validation. These guys aren't going to buy any porn or escorting services from her or hire her for a job or otherwise provide her the financial means to move on and if she thought they would then I doubt this would have happened. This is clearly a person who didn't get validation ANYWHERE else and lost hope for a normal life. Period.

I think it would be a mistake to consider validation to be a prerequisite for self sufficiency. Lots of people have walked away from marriages before without receiving any validation from anyone.

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.


This is very judgmental of you. How can you question the mental state of people you do not even know? So only pretty young things can transistion?

I'm not speculating on this specific girl's mental state in saying this, but I wouldn't really be surprised if there was a relationship between stability/social functionality, and things like passability, age of transitioning, and so on.

Someone who can't and never will pass surely has to deal with more in their day to day lives in terms of discrimination, stigmatization, self angst- to say nothing of the various dysphoria issues. Over time I wouldn't be surprised if that was particularly draining (emotionally and psychologically) for a lot of people- and that's without even touching on the way aging itself can cause duress for women in our society.

Showing that delaying transitioning is psychologically harmful (I believe this to be an easy argument to make, with ample evidence to support it) isn't an argument against "letting old people transition." No, it is if anything a strong argument in making it easier for trans people to transition BEFORE they get to that point. It's about preventing people from ending up in positions like this girl's in the first place.

We should, whenever possible, try to learn from the people who feel so desolate and desperate as to try something like this crime.

If this girl was so distraught over her situation as to kill her GF and children's mother, then how much worse would she be (psychologically) if her access to transitioning was forbidden based on her age? Such a proposal I can only see increasing the amount of maladaptive behavior exhibited by what would be late transitioners... increasing suicides, violence, self destructive behavior, and other psychological illnesses.

[BellaBellucci]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.



Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

[BellaBellucci]

I think it would be a mistake to consider validation to be a prerequisite for self sufficiency. Lots of people have walked away from marriages before without receiving any validation from anyone.

I don't mean she needs validation - the validation is just the set-up. Sorry if I implied otherwise. What I'm saying is that transitioning is not just changing your body but the way you live your entire life and so one needs new resources such as jobs, shelter, friends, etc. I think we all know that those things are easier to come by when you're 'passable.'



On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

Some people aren't mentally or emotionally capable of being poor, especially when they come from money. It's another risk factor of transition and a lot of us either went through it or are going through it. I personally can't sit here and say that my transition didn't affect me financially; it's just that this recession is dragging out the financial portion of it seemingly ad-infinitum.

~BB~

[SarahG]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.



Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

Then it wasn't the validation, she was already fucked up. IMHO.

[tsmandy]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

This isn't about you though, Bella. I think that even if Mischelle had not been on the message boards she would have snapped and harmed someone. She was a very troubled individual and it had nothing to do with how anyone online did or did not treat her.

[BellaBellucci]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.



Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

If that's the case, that puts the ball back more into her court. Still, I think a mod should at least permanently sticky-post a list of mental help resources now. I think we should all take this as a wake-up call.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

This isn't about you though, Bella. I think that even if Mischelle had not been on the message boards she would have snapped and harmed someone. She was a very troubled individual and it had nothing to do with how anyone online did or did not treat her.

Ok, and that may well be the case, but I really think we should also analyze our own behavior. Sure, final responsibility rests with her, but I think this whole situation is an opportunity for many of us to look within ourselves and ask if some of us here might have inadvertantly created an impossible environment for her. Couldn't someone even have banned her if she was unstable and causing problems? They obviously would have been doing her a favor.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

Then it wasn't the validation, she was already fucked up. IMHO.

Yes, she most definitely was fucked up before she ever stepped in to HD, that was never a question. She was a time bomb.

[SarahG]

If that's the case, that puts the ball back more into her court. Still, I think a mod should at least permanently sticky-post a list of mental help resources now. I think we should all take this as a wake-up call.

~BB~

Realistically it wouldn't have helped, stuff like that only works for people who are willing to 1- seek out help, 2- let them help.

This sounds more like she would have needed to be institutionalized against her will because she simply went into denial & belligerency whenever confronted with reality, even when coming from other trans people. Even if she had sought out professional help, she would have been reacting the same way to the same insights.

The only way she would have been institutionalized was if she made it clear that she was set on hurting someone or herself, which doesn't sound to be obvious (it sounds like this was an impulsive heat of the moment reaction to whatever was going on in her household at the time).

[phobun]

This is not true for everyone here, but there are quite a few Mrs. Garrisons running around these forums... guys who became convinced they are women. Most are marginally passable and of interest only to the Mr. Slave characters who fetishize them.

Unfortunately, these Mr. Slave "admirers" are nothing but a bunch of cock-hungry sycophants, gay toadies and obsequious masturbators who will tell the pathetic Mrs. Garrison folks what they want to hear... namely, that they are women.

The Mrs. Garrisons get high on hearing this, and reward the Mr. Slaves with pictures of their best female features... cocks, balls and assholes. So long as everyone is getting what they want, the charade is maintained.

If you dare question this paradigm, a Mrs. Garrison character will get indignant and start hollaring "I'M A WOMAN, DAMNIT!" They tend not to be the most stable individuals.

It sounds like in this case, perhaps the dude's wife questioned the paradigm.

Stop defending your simpleton's stance with psuedo-intellectual horseshhit.

And stop advertising that you think shemale porn is gay, or please just leave the damn forum. You obviously have an obsolete perspective, AND you have contempt for ALL pre-ops. You are no friend of this board.

Sorry, but right is right even if the truth isn't pretty. Phobun FTW.

~BB~

Bella is an example of a pre-op transsexual. She's pretty and has established herself as a woman and mother.

I hadn't initially noticed what Dupre wrote because I'm using a script that makes Dupre's posts disappear. Quite frankly, I think Dupre's avatar is repulsive, and about as obnoxious as Dupre's unhinged posts.

But it is quite funny that Dupre got indignant and accused me of "psuedo-intellectual horseshhit".

Intellectual? My post was a fucking reference to characters on South Park, a cartoon.

This thread is about someone accused of murder who has been called a crossdresser. So Dupre brings up pre-ops? Sorry, pre-op transsexuals are not crossdressers or shemales, nor are most pre-op transsexuals like the sad individual in KC.

Dupre erroneously wrote that I have "contempt for ALL pre-ops." I doubt Dupre is qualified to act as any sort of spokesperson for pre-op transsexuals.

[tsmandy]

Ok, and that may well be the case, but I really think we should also analyze our own behavior. Sure, final responsibility rests with her, but I think this whole situation is an opportunity for many of us to look within ourselves and ask if some of us here might have inadvertantly created an impossible environment for her. Couldn't someone even have banned her if she was unstable and causing problems? They obviously would have been doing her a favor.

~BB~

Who is we? Those of us that actually communicated with her over the last couple years, or the rest of the on-line world?

People have difficulties in dealing with death and atrocity so they constantly seek to pin blame or figure out how they could have stopped it. Seems likely Mischelle just decided to not take her meds, and freaked her gf and kids out enough so that they decided to leave. I don't really see how that is fair to use against anyone online.

[tsntx]

just goes to show you passable doesnt = pretty

shes not pretty but her mug shot looks like a woman

[SarahG]

This thread is about someone accused of murder who has been called a crossdresser. So Dupre brings up pre-ops? Sorry, pre-op transsexuals are not crossdressers or shemales, nor are most pre-op transsexuals like the sad individual in KC.

Do we know what this girl was or are we just guessing here?

What makes you say she was a TV?

Honestly the crime makes more sense to me if she's trans & unable to coupe with her delayed transition. Like if she had suddenly "gone crazy" because she couldn't come to terms with the fact that she'll never be an early transitioner, never experience what would have happened in the first half of her life, and so forth.

It would be incorrect to suppose that mental illness excludes people from being TS, if anything there seems to be strong evidence of a link between being TS and suffering from other illnesses (various depression, bipolar, and anxiety disorders as examples).

[phobun]

just goes to show you passable doesnt = pretty

shes not pretty but her mug shot looks like a woman

True enough

[SarahG]

just goes to show you passable doesnt = pretty

shes not pretty but her mug shot looks like a woman

That's actually what I thought too, also judging by that pic and the FB profile pic she must have been on hrt for a while (not gonna guess on how long).

[BellaBellucci]

Ok, and that may well be the case, but I really think we should also analyze our own behavior. Sure, final responsibility rests with her, but I think this whole situation is an opportunity for many of us to look within ourselves and ask if some of us here might have inadvertantly created an impossible environment for her. Couldn't someone even have banned her if she was unstable and causing problems? They obviously would have been doing her a favor.

~BB~

Who is we? Those of us that actually communicated with her over the last couple years, or the rest of the on-line world?

People have difficulties in dealing with death and atrocity so they constantly seek to pin blame or figure out how they could have stopped it. Seems likely Mischelle just decided to not take her meds, and freaked her gf and kids out enough so that they decided to leave. I don't really see how that is fair to use against anyone online.

We as in all of us on these boards, whether we knew her or not. And you said yourself that she was unstable. She didn't 'just do' anything if she was a ticking time bomb as you claim. It may not have been premeditated, but it sounds like it could have been foreseen.

It's not about placing blame; it's individual inward reflection on the way we treat people that can turn this tragedy into a lesson.

~BB~

[phobun]

This thread is about someone accused of murder who has been called a crossdresser. So Dupre brings up pre-ops? Sorry, pre-op transsexuals are not crossdressers or shemales, nor are most pre-op transsexuals like the sad individual in KC.

Do we know what this girl was or are we just guessing here?

What makes you say she was a TV?
I really don't know what the person in KC is. I had read someone had writted CD, but that could be wrong.

It would be incorrect to suppose that mental illness excludes people from being TS, if anything there seems to be strong evidence of a link between being TS and suffering from other illnesses (various depression, bipolar, and anxiety disorders as examples).
I think this is a fair assessment.

[tsmandy]

Do we know what this girl was or are we just guessing here?

What makes you say she was a TV?

Honestly the crime makes more sense to me if she's trans & unable to coupe with her delayed transition. Like if she had suddenly "gone crazy" because she couldn't come to terms with the fact that she'll never be an early transitioner, never experience what would have happened in the first half of her life, and so forth.

It would be incorrect to suppose that mental illness excludes people from being TS, if anything there seems to be strong evidence of a link between being TS and suffering from other illnesses (various depression, bipolar, and anxiety disorders as examples).

Mischelle said she was on hormones and living full time as a woman. she also claimed to be a young TS, which was a lie. Of course the news reported on her using male pro-nouns because that is how they refer to all TS who haven't legally squared away their documents (which would include many of the girls on this board).

I continue to use She because I have always referred to Mischelle by female pronouns.

[Felicia Katt]

The whole situation is horrible and to be sure blurring or crossing gender lines can be a source of strain and strife, even in the best circumstances. For some, that stress can be to the breaking point. But for many others maybe Mischelle included, its not the transition that drives them crazy, but that the craziness drives them to transition. This tragedy was due to that kind of general dysfunction, not gender dysphoria. No one caused it, and no amount of care or concern or counseling any of us could offer could have cured it.


FK

[SarahG]

. It may not have been premeditated, but it sounds like it could have been foreseen.

I would agree with that.

I would also add that its extremely hard to be reliable in foreseeing stuff like this because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of shorts- people look around and go "yea, this person, that person, and that other person are clearly wacked, I could see them having 19 bodies buried behind their house." Chances are that all 3 of them won't eventually hurt someone, but if one of them does- it creates this "see!? I SO told you so!" moment that ignores the people that never do go out and salvagely beat or kill someone.

I had this psy professor who used to talk about the patients she had, who she could tell were clearly fucked up- and how hard it was to actually predict if/when they'd break. She had this one story about a patient with a borderline personality disorder who, just impulsively walked into her office and shot at her. :shock: Had the patient seemed crazy? You betcha, but they didn't appear to be on the verge of hurting them self or others and therefore didn't (until then anyway) meet the criteria for institutionalization.

[BellaBellucci]

just goes to show you passable doesnt = pretty

shes not pretty but her mug shot looks like a woman

That's actually what I thought too, also judging by that pic and the FB profile pic she must have been on hrt for a while (not gonna guess on how long).

It's funny. When I first saw the mugshot I thought it was a woman until I read the article, but was she was only passable looking? Plus, I have to admit that there's a possibility that this had nothing to do with 'passability' and her girlfriend simply didn't want to be with a woman. That happens all the time too. The conclusion to the anecdotal story which I told about myself up-thread is that my ex eventually started belittling me as a woman BECAUSE I finally was. That happens too.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

We as in all of us on these boards, whether we knew her or not. And you said yourself that she was unstable. She didn't 'just do' anything if she was a ticking time bomb as you claim. It may not have been premeditated, but it sounds like it could have been foreseen.

It's not about placing blame; it's individual inward reflection on the way we treat people that can turn this tragedy into a lesson.

~BB~

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.

[BellaBellucci]

We as in all of us on these boards, whether we knew her or not. And you said yourself that she was unstable. She didn't 'just do' anything if she was a ticking time bomb as you claim. It may not have been premeditated, but it sounds like it could have been foreseen.

It's not about placing blame; it's individual inward reflection on the way we treat people that can turn this tragedy into a lesson.

~BB~

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.

Sometimes the lesson is personal. That's why I'm advocating reflection as opposed to blame. And that doesn't even imply any responsibility. It's just something that I think we all should take seriously and really think about.

~BB~

[SarahG]

Do we know what this girl was or are we just guessing here?

What makes you say she was a TV?

Honestly the crime makes more sense to me if she's trans & unable to coupe with her delayed transition. Like if she had suddenly "gone crazy" because she couldn't come to terms with the fact that she'll never be an early transitioner, never experience what would have happened in the first half of her life, and so forth.

It would be incorrect to suppose that mental illness excludes people from being TS, if anything there seems to be strong evidence of a link between being TS and suffering from other illnesses (various depression, bipolar, and anxiety disorders as examples).

Mischelle said she was on hormones and living full time as a woman. she also claimed to be a young TS, which was a lie. Of course the news reported on her using male pro-nouns because that is how they refer to all TS who haven't legally squared away their documents (which would include many of the girls on this board).

I continue to use She because I have always referred to Mischelle by female pronouns.

Some TV's do go on hrt, but I would not consider fulltime to be a common characteristic for TV's.

You're right on about the pronouns, even if she had changed her name- most newspapers would have used male pronouns anyway, most would have brought up her birth name at least once, and many would have simply said "transvestite" because that's the only word they know to use in articles like these.

If there is one thing the media can't be trusted for, it's accuracy in any story involving trans people.

[BellaBellucci]

I could see them having 19 bodies buried behind their house.

Didn't someone accuse YOU of that this week? rofl

Who was it? I forget.



Chances are that all 3 of them won't eventually hurt someone, but if one of them does- it creates this "see!? I SO told you so!" moment that ignores the people that never do go out and salvagely beat or kill someone.

I had this psy professor who used to talk about the patients she had, who she could tell were clearly fucked up- and how hard it was to actually predict if/when they'd break. She had this one story about a patient with a borderline personality disorder who, just impulsively walked into her office and shot at her. :shock: Had the patient seemed crazy? You betcha, but they didn't appear to be on the verge of hurting them self or others and therefore didn't (until then anyway) meet the criteria for institutionalization.

Very true. It's hard to argue with that.

~BB~

[SarahG]

I could see them having 19 bodies buried behind their house.

Didn't someone accuse YOU of that this week? rofl

Who was it? I forget.


I'm pretty sure it was Jericho going by memory but I would have to go back and find the thread. It's a good thing I haven't been woken up by cadaver dogs looking for them from that thread, or there would be twenty bodies buried behind my apartment right now (kidding!).

But I was just using that for dramatic effect to see who was paying attention, you'll notice even my serious posts blend in a lot of HA-inside humor. Is it a way of poking fun of bad incidents? No, I do it to keep people focused on what I am saying- its a powerful way of getting attention towards my arguments.

I do feel for the kid(s?) involved with this story, there have been murders in my family before- its a rough deal and it doesn't get any easier. Even worse is the fact that the accused is trans, if their parents' relationship problems weren't known by the whole state before- they are now. I can't imagine what it will be like for them in school.

[BellaBellucci]

I can't imagine what it will be like for them in school.

I think you'd have to move the kids far, far away after something like this.

~BB~

[Felicia Katt]

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.
Nothing any of us could have done nor anything any of us didn't do precipitated or could have prevented this. Society might have through better gun laws or better mental health care, but even that Utopian ideal couldn't guarantee a happier outcome. Tragedies happen and sometimes the only lesson is a reaffirmation of the random unfairness of life.

FK

[SarahG]

I can't imagine what it will be like for them in school.

I think you'd have to move the kids far, far away after something like this.

~BB~

Odds of that are nill, if the one parent is convicted they'll likely be thrown into the foster care system and stay in the area... unless they happen to have relatives left willing to take them in.

Hell even if the parent is acquitted they'll likely end up in the foster care system, which if the case means their futures just took a pretty steep nose dive. Even if they get out of that system at 18 unscathed psychologically, they're not going to have the support structure (financially or otherwise) to help them through college.

[2009AD]

The girl is 18, so she can legally go off on her own. The boy is 10. Hopefully, relatives will step in and give him a new home. Either way, these kids' lives are shattered.






I can't imagine what it will be like for them in school.

I think you'd have to move the kids far, far away after something like this.

~BB~

Odds of that are nill, if the one parent is convicted they'll likely be thrown into the foster care system and stay in the area... unless they happen to have relatives left willing to take them in.

Hell even if the parent is acquitted they'll likely end up in the foster care system, which if the case means their futures just took a pretty steep nose dive. Even if they get out of that system at 18 unscathed psychologically, they're not going to have the support structure (financially or otherwise) to help them through college.

[Steve-Oh]

I chatted with her on occasion at HD and was only polite to her as I feel that is what everyone deserves.

The fact is she snapped and killed someone.
Are hormones to blame?
Is any kind of dysphoria to blame?
Is chatroom validation to blame?
Are abusive forum posts to blame?
Is an unaccepting family to blame?
I'm sure plenty of TS/TV people go through hard times but that's no excuse to kill the mother of your children, or anyone for that matter!

The only person at fault is Mischelle and regardless of what anyone calls/considers her, she will now spend many years in a mens' prison.

I'm sorry this happened. She will live with this until her last day. I wish her peace, but that seemed hard for her to find.

[Chaingunner]

Post deleted. Waste of time with the majority being jackasses.

[SarahG]

I chatted with her on occasion at HD and was only polite to her as I feel that is what everyone deserves.

The fact is she snapped and killed someone.
Are hormones to blame?
Is any kind of dysphoria to blame?
Is chatroom validation to blame?
Are abusive forum posts to blame?
Is an unaccepting family to blame?
I'm sure plenty of TS/TV people go through hard times but that's no excuse to kill the mother of your children, or anyone for that matter!

The only person at fault is Mischelle and regardless of what anyone calls/considers her, she will now spend many years in a mens' prison.

I'm sorry this happened. She will live with this until her last day. I wish her peace, but that seemed hard for her to find.

There is a major difference between explaining and excusing.

I don't see anyone here saying her actions are excusable.

[Steve-Oh]

Thanks CG for that look into Mischelle's life.

[tsntx]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

[Nicole Dupre]

I chatted with her on occasion at HD and was only polite to her as I feel that is what everyone deserves.

The fact is she snapped and killed someone.
Are hormones to blame?
Is any kind of dysphoria to blame?
Is chatroom validation to blame?
Are abusive forum posts to blame?
Is an unaccepting family to blame?
I'm sure plenty of TS/TV people go through hard times but that's no excuse to kill the mother of your children, or anyone for that matter!

The only person at fault is Mischelle and regardless of what anyone calls/considers her, she will now spend many years in a mens' prison.

I'm sorry this happened. She will live with this until her last day. I wish her peace, but that seemed hard for her to find.

There is a major difference between explaining and excusing.

I don't see anyone here saying her actions are excusable.

He's not the brightest bulb in the marquee. ;)

[SarahG]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

Medical debts are the #1 cause for bankruptcy in the United States. Even adjustable interest rate mortgages pale in comparison.

Most of those people don't kill someone over it. If they did the deaths would be comparable to some of the casualty stats we've had from major wars...

Theoretically she could be using the net at a public library.

[Chaingunner]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

She ran out of the HRT on more than one occasion and the internet and phone regularly got cut off too.

Now go back under the stone you just crawled out from under you pious bitch. Expected no less from you anyway.

I'm done here. Just wanted you to know some facts before you make your decisions.

[Steve-Oh]

He's not the brightest bulb in the marquee. ;)

Love you too, Nicole.

[tsntx]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

Medical debts are the #1 cause for bankruptcy in the United States. Even adjustable interest rate mortgages pale in comparison.

Most of those people don't kill someone over it. If they did the deaths would be comparable to some of the casualty stats we've had from major wars...

Theoretically she could be using the net at a public library.


i thought the library bit too however i remember when i was a kid and trying to get information on things inside me i was blocked left and right and chat rooms didnt work and you couldnt even search for certain words

[tsntx]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

She ran out of the HRT on more than one occasion and the internet and phone regularly got cut off too.

Now go back under the stone you just crawled out from under you pious bitch. Expected no less from you anyway.

I'm done here. Just wanted you to know some facts before you make your decisions.


dont let the door hit you on the way out back to your land of bs reviews and mentally ill regulars

[SarahG]

i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?

Medical debts are the #1 cause for bankruptcy in the United States. Even adjustable interest rate mortgages pale in comparison.

Most of those people don't kill someone over it. If they did the deaths would be comparable to some of the casualty stats we've had from major wars...

Theoretically she could be using the net at a public library.


i thought the library bit too however i remember when i was a kid and trying to get information on things inside me i was blocked left and right and chat rooms didnt work and you couldnt even search for certain words

It is a sad reality that some states feel the need to play morality enforcement and censor public internet access.

This is more of a problem in the bible belt but I am sure its practiced all over. Depending on the library system, sometimes adults can have the librarians override the censor software.

We also don't know what library it could have been, a unversity would be less likely to block stuff like that and some allow people to use their facilities for free off the street.

Another possibility: she had a phone that was wifi capable and was freeloading off of a neighbor's insecure wifi network, using free wifi points in public (bookstores, coffeeshops, hotels, truck stops, they're everywhere anymore). She'd need a phone anyway to have any hopes of finding a job (no one hires people who omit the phone # part of the job application).

[tsmandy]

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.
Nothing any of us could have done nor anything any of us didn't do precipitated or could have prevented this. Society might have through better gun laws or better mental health care, but even that Utopian ideal couldn't guarantee a happier outcome. Tragedies happen and sometimes the only lesson is a reaffirmation of the random unfairness of life.

FK

That was my point.

[Nicole Dupre]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

[SarahG]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

Even if for arguments shake everything he said was true- it doesn't really change anything.

She had existing psychological disorders that made her predisposed to cracking, the relationship trouble combined with economic problems could easily be enough to lead someone to "crack."

There have been plenty of domestic violence incidents in the US that have been blamed on the recession because even non-trans people are frequently predisposed to doing stuff like this when under enough stress. Like that guy in PA who shot up a bunch of cops some months ago now.

[Steve-Oh]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

All rise. Judge Dupre presiding.

[tsntx]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".


well that was apparent

i mean w/ all the backstory yould swear you were reading the chicks memoir

it seriously read like a biography or in this case a brief synopsis to educate the reader of who the "tv" was in the obitury for the wife

[Nicole Dupre]

So the wife's "threats" caused Mischelle to loose her "fragile grip. Please. She HAD NO fucking grip. Anyone talking to her had about as much hope of being her "friend" as you would bringing home the wackos who live under bridges. People like you gave her credibility. She deserves none. I don't think that she was "sweet" AT ALL. Maybe infantile.

[2009AD]

It is a sad reality that some states feel the need to play morality enforcement and censor public internet access.

This is more of a problem in the bible belt but I am sure its practiced all over. Depending on the library system, sometimes adults can have the librarians override the censor software.

A bit off-topic, but SG I see no problem with a public library denying access to adult/porn sites like HA, HD, Hustler, Xtube, et cetera.

Adults are free to read Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, or rent x-rated dvds, but that does not mean libraries have to supply those materials.

Back on topic: It's a shame that after Mischelle attempted suicide, her gun was not seized by the authorities.

[Nicole Dupre]

@ Jenn

Chaingunner was her best buddy, so I'm not surprised he's already got her hardly-airtight insanity defense ready to go.

[tsntx]

It is a sad reality that some states feel the need to play morality enforcement and censor public internet access.

This is more of a problem in the bible belt but I am sure its practiced all over. Depending on the library system, sometimes adults can have the librarians override the censor software.

A bit off-topic, but SG I see no problem with a public library denying access to adult/porn sites like HA, HD, Hustler, Xtube, et cetera.

Adults are free to read Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, or rent x-rated dvds, but that does not mean libraries have to supply those materials.

i agree... but i dont think thats what she was referring to... i think she meant how i couldnt even search for information on "gay, transexual etc"
not come to this site or look at porn

[Nicole Dupre]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

All rise. Judge Dupre presiding.
This bitch wrote me on and off for over a year, so kindly stfu, hater.

[tsntx]

@ Jenn

Chaingunner was her best buddy, so I'm not surprised he's already got her hardly-airtight insanity defense ready to go.

well it sounds like hes been saving the backstory and prepping it for sometime

how convienent of him that he googled her boy name just days after the incident to find the article that informed us all of what happened


like ive been saying since the great divide... hd is full of imbalanced ppl

this just further proves it

[Nicole Dupre]

This guy, who goes by Steve-O on HD, was also one of her rabid defenders.

[Chaingunner]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

Yes, she's a murderer and going to do a very long stretch for it and quite rightly imo. The rest of your statement is just supposition and therefore holds no water Nicole.

I was never a 'fan' but tried to be a friend to her if she ever needed it along with others she spoke with too. No ulterior motive or gain.

You make your own mind up about me, I don't care.

[SarahG]

So the wife's "threats" caused Mischelle to loose her "fragile grip. Please. She HAD NO fucking grip. Anyone talking to her had about as much hope of being her "friend" as you would bringing home the wackos who live under bridges. People like you gave her credibility. She deserves none. I don't think that she was "sweet" AT ALL. Maybe infantile.

If this is in response to me let me clarify: from what I've read here it seems she had MAJOR problems- I say "had" because they probably go back many years.

I highly doubt she was a stable person 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years ago (pulling numbers from thin air). Someone doesn't just end up like this, its a long downward spiral.

[tsntx]

lol @ ur location

[Nicole Dupre]

I'll bet they had cyber sex.

[Steve-Oh]

This bitch wrote me on and off for over a year, so kindly stfu, hater.
Come on Nicole, Just because I think you're generally judgemental doesn't mean I hate ya. I find your posts pretty entertaining, sometimes.

[Chaingunner]

@ Jenn

Chaingunner was her best buddy, so I'm not surprised he's already got her hardly-airtight insanity defense ready to go.

well it sounds like hes been saving the backstory and prepping it for sometime

how convienent of him that he googled her boy name just days after the incident to find the article that informed us all of what happened


like ive been saying since the great divide... hd is full of imbalanced ppl

this just further proves it

And you can just fuck off you bitter troll eh? Asshole....

[tsntx]

Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

Yes, she's a murderer and going to do a very long stretch for it and quite rightly imo. The rest of your statement is just supposition and therefore holds no water Nicole.

I was never a 'fan' but tried to be a friend to her if she ever needed it along with others she spoke with too. No ulterior motive or gain.

You make your own mind up about me, I don't care.

haha if you didnt care about it you wouldnt have come back to clarify your pov after saying you were done and leaving... edit* make that THREE pages back fag

[Nicole Dupre]

Then don't question whether or not I have the right to have an opinion, on her or on how people like CG fed into this "Hot She-Devil" bullshit. This idiot put herself on MY radar on a semi regular basis, and NOT the other way around. I would never pursue getting to know her. NEVER.

[tsntx]

@ Jenn

Chaingunner was her best buddy, so I'm not surprised he's already got her hardly-airtight insanity defense ready to go.

well it sounds like hes been saving the backstory and prepping it for sometime

how convienent of him that he googled her boy name just days after the incident to find the article that informed us all of what happened


like ive been saying since the great divide... hd is full of imbalanced ppl

this just further proves it

And you can just fuck off you bitter troll eh? Asshole....

im the troll? really?

this is the site i "frequent"
this is the site you claim abhore

im liked here
youre a fag here

i never said i was leaving
you did but keep posting

all signs point to you being the troll
run along now... hd needs another thread started aboutme, their favorite non-hd poster to talk about

[Steve-Oh]

This guy, who goes by Steve-O on HD, was also one of her rabid defenders.

Oooh! Great detective work. I've only posted that fact a few times on HD.
I never directly defended any one person but have made several comments on your sometimes caustic judgements of other members.

[SarahG]

It is a sad reality that some states feel the need to play morality enforcement and censor public internet access.

This is more of a problem in the bible belt but I am sure its practiced all over. Depending on the library system, sometimes adults can have the librarians override the censor software.

A bit off-topic, but SG I see no problem with a public library denying access to adult/porn sites like HA, HD, Hustler, Xtube, et cetera.

Adults are free to read Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, or rent x-rated dvds, but that does not mean libraries have to supply those materials.

Back on topic: It's a shame that after Mischelle attempted suicide, her gun was not seized by the authorities.

I really could care less about access to porn.

BUT when you set the computers to block anything that involves the word "transsexual," "transgender," "transvestite" and so on- you end up censoring a whole host of incredibly important information like:

-Various support sites
-News stories (like this one)
-Home pages
-Face book/myspace profiles
-Scientific articles
-LGBT groups' sites

I could go on and on.

Libraries exist primarily for information, and these censorship practices usually end up blocking a LOT of information beyond porn.

What if I had to write a paper on the way international law prohibits militaries from using rape as a weapon? I can't DO that if the library filters out anything with the word "rape" "sex" or "intercourse" in it!

[Nicole Dupre]

Ohhh! Almost forgot. All HD mods are under strict orders to hate Jenn Justice. ;)

LMFAO!

Girl, we are both on that list. ;)

[Nicole Dupre]

This guy, who goes by Steve-O on HD, was also one of her rabid defenders.

Oooh! Great detective work. I've only posted that fact a few times on HD.
I never directly defended any one person but have made several comments on your sometimes caustic judgements of other members.

Mmmmmgreatthanksloveyaloadsbuhbye.

[2009AD]

It is a sad reality that some states feel the need to play morality enforcement and censor public internet access.

This is more of a problem in the bible belt but I am sure its practiced all over. Depending on the library system, sometimes adults can have the librarians override the censor software.

A bit off-topic, but SG I see no problem with a public library denying access to adult/porn sites like HA, HD, Hustler, Xtube, et cetera.

Adults are free to read Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, or rent x-rated dvds, but that does not mean libraries have to supply those materials.

Back on topic: It's a shame that after Mischelle attempted suicide, her gun was not seized by the authorities.

I really could care less about access to porn.

BUT when you set the computers to block anything that involves the word "transsexual," "transgender," "transvestite" and so on- you end up censoring a whole host of incredibly important information like:

-Various support sites
-News stories (like this one)
-Home pages
-Face book/myspace profiles
-Scientific articles
-LGBT groups' sites

I could go on and on.

Libraries exist primarily for information, and these censorship practices usually end up blocking a LOT of information beyond porn.

What if I had to write a paper on the way international law prohibits militaries from using rape as a weapon? I can't DO that if the library filters out anything with the word "rape" "sex" or "intercourse" in it!

Good points, as usual.

[tsntx]

Ohhh! Almost forgot. All HD mods are under strict orders to hate Jenn Justice. ;)

LMFAO!

Girl, we are both on that list. ;)

yeah i know... thats why they bannned me from sr.net ... then they started posting my full name and picture on the site after they had agreed not to use either.... and they refuse to post honest reviews or positive reviews on me but have no problem posting completely false ones

its so funny that a bunch of ppl that claim to never have met me, dont know me or claim they have no desire to meet me have such high opinions of me lol

they should have swallowed their issues w/ me and let w/e is said about me just be posted.... now they have no credibility at all and have jeopordized the credibility of other reviews

fags

[Felicia Katt]

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.
Nothing any of us could have done nor anything any of us didn't do precipitated or could have prevented this. Society might have through better gun laws or better mental health care, but even that Utopian ideal couldn't guarantee a happier outcome. Tragedies happen and sometimes the only lesson is a reaffirmation of the random unfairness of life.

FK

That was my point.
I know, I was just taking your point and making it into a tip. People are trying too hard to make sense where there may be none, or to find a morale when there is no coherent story.

Hindsight is always 20 20. We can look back and see where it went off track, but in reality no one could have foreseen this trainwreck. Sometimes, you just have to accept some tragedies can't be stopped before or explained later.

FK

[tsmandy]

Sure but what lesson do we learn from it all? That those of us who befriended her should have kept our distance? That those of us who treated her with distance should have befriended her? That her GF should have left sooner? That handguns should be outlawed? That we need a public health care program which treats mental illness seriously? That we need a public health system that provides care and monitoring to TS?

Sometimes there is no lesson.
Nothing any of us could have done nor anything any of us didn't do precipitated or could have prevented this. Society might have through better gun laws or better mental health care, but even that Utopian ideal couldn't guarantee a happier outcome. Tragedies happen and sometimes the only lesson is a reaffirmation of the random unfairness of life.

FK

That was my point.
I know, I was just taking your point and making it into a tip. People are trying too hard to make sense where there may be none, or to find a morale when there is no coherent story.

Hindsight is always 20 20. We can look back and see where it went off track, but in reality no one could have foreseen this trainwreck. Sometimes, you just have to accept some tragedies can't be stopped before or explained later.

FK

That is I guess the lesson I have learned dealing with many friends committing suicide in my life and watching everyone close to them tear each other apart with blame. I guess I don't think of this much differently.

[phobun]

People are trying too hard to make sense where there may be none, or to find a morale when there is no coherent story.

Hindsight is always 20 20. We can look back and see where it went off track, but in reality no one could have foreseen this trainwreck. Sometimes, you just have to accept some tragedies can't be stopped before or explained later.

FK
This about sums it up. Well said as usual.

[Nicole Dupre]

This about sums it up. Well said as usual.Yeah, she can sum things up. You, on the other hand, start bringing in the slide rulers and hurling the insults. So stfu, you big phony.

[Tepres]

These are the three best answers in this thread.



I'm sure plenty of TS/TV people go through hard times but that's no excuse to kill the mother of your children, or anyone for that matter!

The only person at fault is Mischelle and regardless of what anyone calls/considers her, she will now spend many years in a mens' prison.



i find it odd someone that has to live on crackers shared w/ the family still finds the funds to get her hrt and internet afloat

and her failed suicide attempt which resulted in "18000" dollars is the US's fault? bitch shouldnt have tried to kill herself... how bout that?


Well, Chaingunner, she's a murderer. She was neither "fragile" nor "fishy" when she fired that .45. And how do you know if what you were told was the truth anyway? Maybe she beat her GF and her kids. How would we know?

You invested way too much interest in her. And don't deny you were one of her blindly loyal "fans".

I'll only add that I hope he (Michael Adams Junior) never gets paroled. Is there a death penalty in KC? This is gonna be at least 2nd degree murder, and possibly 1st degree.

[2009AD]

I'll only add that I hope he (Michael Adams Junior) never gets paroled. Is there a death penalty in KC? This is gonna be at least 2nd degree murder, and possibly 1st degree.

This is not a capital murder case so the death penalty is off the table. He will eventually get paroled, after serving anywhere from 5 to 15 years. The case is pretty clear cut case. His lawyer should try to cut a deal with the prosecutor.

[Tepres]

I'll only add that I hope he (Michael Adams Junior) never gets paroled. Is there a death penalty in KC? This is gonna be at least 2nd degree murder, and possibly 1st degree.

This is not a capital murder case so the death penalty is off the table. He will eventually get paroled, after serving anywhere from 5 to 15 years. The case is pretty clear cut case. His lawyer should try to cut a deal with the prosecutor.

Only 5-15 years? That would be a travesty of justice. Not enough IMO. I see this person as very unstable, dangerous, and a potential repeat offender. But oh well, there's nothing I can do about it.

[Nicole Dupre]

I don't get off on her being punished, but my heart goes out to the kids. Regardless of whether or not this person was legally sane, she was clearly disturbed, and anyone with a half a brain in their head could see that. So I can only imagine what those kids probably dealt with all their lives. This is just a tragedy, all around.

[phobun]

I'll only add that I hope he (Michael Adams Junior) never gets paroled. Is there a death penalty in KC? This is gonna be at least 2nd degree murder, and possibly 1st degree.

This is not a capital murder case so the death penalty is off the table. He will eventually get paroled, after serving anywhere from 5 to 15 years. The case is pretty clear cut case. His lawyer should try to cut a deal with the prosecutor.
Perhaps he won't want his lawyer to cut a deal...
No doubt that there will be totally straight guys in prison who will treat him like a woman, plus there will be free electricity, heat and food. The state pays for health care and HRT, as well as child care for his 10 year old.

[SarahG]

I'll only add that I hope he (Michael Adams Junior) never gets paroled. Is there a death penalty in KC? This is gonna be at least 2nd degree murder, and possibly 1st degree.

This is not a capital murder case so the death penalty is off the table. He will eventually get paroled, after serving anywhere from 5 to 15 years. The case is pretty clear cut case. His lawyer should try to cut a deal with the prosecutor.
Perhaps he won't want his lawyer to cut a deal...
No doubt that there will be totally straight guys in prison who will treat him like a woman, plus there will be free electricity, heat and food. The state pays for health care and HRT, as well as child care for his 10 year old.

Fat chance of that if she's DIY.

Prisons are notorious for withholding HRT in all but the most unavoidable of cases, and even then will have their doctors scale back the dosages to the point of it being inconsequential as a way of saving money.

[Kirsty Scott TG]

Shit.

No way. Shit.

For fucks sake ....... Shit.

That's pretty much all I could think when I heard about this. Ok, so there are a few facts about Mischelle I never knew that have come out. I thought she was in her twenties, a young transsexual struggling to change sex, a kind of recluse but living 24/7, single and for some reason, despite no attachment to the adult industry had found a place to open up and socialise on-line at HD.

So it transpires her situation is much closer to mine. Age and family situation (sort of) that is. In that respect ..... Shit. I guess I am another Mrs. Garrison.

It's strange that the debate relating to this is being held over on HA and not HD where most people interacted with Mischelle. I guess people feel more free to express their point of view.

From what I have read on HA I gather the girls on HD had much more discussions with Mischelle on her issues in the She-Devil forum and from what I have read thought her fraglie, if not on the edge.

For my own part I thought she was a young, confused TS trying to have a bit of fun on-line and enjoying the flirting with the guys.

Then of course came the debate with Nicole, harsh critique for anyone ....... yes, perhaps. Many have felt the cut of the Dupree Wit. I think that understandably invoked support for Mischelle ..... especially for the guys who were never party to any she-devil discussions.

However, there is NO WAY that sends someone to do what Mischelle did. When Mischelle started posting old pics of Nicole and went on an all out attack I think that was the first time I thought she was really troubled. I tried writing to her to calm down but her inbox was full .....

(Just for the sake of clarification, Nicole there is no way I think your comments had any bearing on this outcome .....)

However, the support she got did not have an effect on this "shit" outcome either ..... (false validation as it has been labelled.) The guys reacted to the information they were given, trusted it to be true and gave her moral support.

There is no way anyone could determine what Mischelle's relationship was like with her partner and kids ..... what Mischelle's state of mind was or that something like this would ever happen. Emotional blackmail, psychotic disorder, history of violence ..... we can only speculate.

I don't even think there are lessons to be learnt from this ....... Mandy already covered this. Certainly there is nothing else that can be done on a porn forum.

The ONLY point someone can take from this is to seek professional help if they feel so disturbed ...... but how do you recognise you are disturbed?

The only person that has the reasons and the answers, and if it exists the sense in this is Mischelle ..... if indeed she even has them.

SHIT

Kirsty
xxx xxx

[Felicia Katt]

Kristy, categorizing you as a Mrs Garrison is false invalidation. Otherwise, I agree with every thing you said

FK

[BellaBellucci]

I can't imagine what it will be like for them in school.

I think you'd have to move the kids far, far away after something like this.

~BB~

Odds of that are nill, if the one parent is convicted they'll likely be thrown into the foster care system and stay in the area... unless they happen to have relatives left willing to take them in.

Hell even if the parent is acquitted they'll likely end up in the foster care system, which if the case means their futures just took a pretty steep nose dive. Even if they get out of that system at 18 unscathed psychologically, they're not going to have the support structure (financially or otherwise) to help them through college.

No of course I meant the relatives. The state never moves kids out of foster care. There's too much money in it. And I know that one from experience too. :cry:

~BB~

[Idgaf]

I spoke with Mischelle on several ocassions in early July.
She was talking about arguing with her GF about sex issues,
GF was complaining that she was not getting enough sex.
At one point Mischelle mentioned that she had tried to commit suicide before.
And in typical Mischelle fashion she made a joke of both situations.
She would not elaborate on either situation in any detail.

i would not be surprised if the lawyer went for a mental illness defense.
Ample documented history exists.
What is tricky about that defense is that in some states they will confine the prisoner to a mental ward only to be released when the Judge is satisfied that the prisoner is no longer a threat to society.

The filtering technology that libraries need to use if any is packet filtering software then discretion can be fine toothed rather than broad strokes.

I come to these forums to obtain information that is unobtainable anywhere else. I agree with much of what Mandy and Nicole have said.
When Bella mentioned getting slapped around by her ex ,I wondered if that is what was happening in this instance also.
It takes great resolve to walk away.
http://www.demo-mo.com/100/story/5312.html

[BellaBellucci]

I agree with much of what Mandy and Nicole have said.
When Bella mentioned getting slapped around by her ex ,I wondered if that is what was happening in this instance also.
It takes great resolve to walk away.
http://www.demo-mo.com/100/story/5312.html

It was more like pushing than slapping, but thank you.

~BB~

[Steffani]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

For some reason it became pretty obvious to myself that shhe was probably in 30s just by what she posted. It wasn't worth the time to deal with all of it and still isnt with these kind of people. still, I have not heard of any other TVs wacking their partner, so this one was an exception to the crazys by far

[SarahG]

still, I have not heard of any other TVs wacking their partner, so this one was an exception to the crazys by far

IDK about tv's but I've seen a few stories of domestic violence involving trans perpetrators.

For instance:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1146169/Transsexual-wife-exercised-elderly-husband-death.html;jsessionid=90B210BB29B56A5AC1732988C634 F8B8

[HP1000]

I spoke with Mischelle on several ocassions in early July.
She was talking about arguing with her GF about sex issues,
GF was complaining that she was not getting enough sex.
At one point Mischelle mentioned that she had tried to commit suicide before.And in typical Mischelle fashion she made a joke of both situations.
She would not elaborate on either situation in any detail.

i would not be surprised if the lawyer went for a mental illness defense.
Ample documented history exists.
What is tricky about that defense is that in some states they will confine the prisoner to a mental ward only to be released when the Judge is satisfied that the prisoner is no longer a threat to society.

The filtering technology that libraries need to use if any is packet filtering software then discretion can be fine toothed rather than broad strokes.

I come to these forums to obtain information that is unobtainable anywhere else. I agree with much of what Mandy and Nicole have said.
When Bella mentioned getting slapped around by her ex ,I wondered if that is what was happening in this instance also.
It takes great resolve to walk away.
http://www.demo-mo.com/100/story/5312.html


Sad story!
But I guess you shouldn't date depressed TS woman that tried to commit suicide either.

[Steffani]

As I usually don't post jack shit on these forums but this is worth saying

I do have to say N D you were RIGHT ON!!! the fucking money with this mishell charactor and with the moderators over on HD as well.

And I am not trying to belittle the tragedy of this situation either as my heart goes out to the daughter and son of the murdered woman.

But those fucking guys who have no other purpose in life but to fantasize to stiffen their cocks regardless of the situation that is obvious with some of the subjects of their admiration ought to take about two steps back right now.

WTF?

[Nicole Dupre]

still, I have not heard of any other TVs wacking their partner, so this one was an exception to the crazys by far

Maybe their partner, but it seems like there are plenty of homicidal CDs out there. Psycho, TX Chainsaw, Silence of the Lambs, etc are all based on a real person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wSGmrwvPwk

And how about this sick bastard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65UjxBVcsIw&NR=1

Now watch this, but pay attention closest at 4:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PF3MSV2kbc

[Helvis2012]

Not so good.

[slingblade]

Mason City native charged in wife's murder near KC
Thursday, July 16, 2009, 11:27 AM
by Bob Fisher, KRIB, Mason City
A murder late Tuesday in suburban Kansas City has left a Mason City native dead and another Mason City native jailed on a murder charge. The Kansas City Star newspaper reports that court records show that 37-year-old Michael Adams Junior is charged with second-degree murder in the death of 36-year-old Amber Hartwig. Both were 1991 graduates of Mason City High School.

Court records say that Hartwig's 18-year-old daughter found her mother dead on the floor of the couple's house with her father sitting next to her smoking a cigarette. Adams was also shot in the incident at about 10:30 PM in Belton, Missouri, which is about 20 miles south of downtown Kansas City. Police say they think Adams also shot himself and sustained a superficial wound to his chest after shooting Hartwig in the head with a 45-caliber handgun.

The court records say that on the night of the shootings, Adams attempted to jump from the car during a family trip to the grocery store and was restrained by his daughter. After returning home, Hartwig told the children she was leaving for the night and would take them with her. The daughter said that moments later she heard gunshots, called 9-1-1 and stated that Adams had shot Hartwig, with the dispatcher telling her to get her brother and get out of the house.

Adams apparently for a year or two had been considering a sex change operation as he was dressing as a woman, taking hormones to grow breasts, and was using the female name of Mischelle Sabrina Adams on his Facebook account.


7-22-09

Adams makes first appearance in Hartwig death

By The Associated Press
HARRISONVILLE, Mo.— Relatives and witnesses say a 37-year-old Belton man accused of shooting the mother of his two children had been arguing with her because he had started dressing as a woman.

Michael Adams Jr. made his first appearance Monday in Cass County Circuit Court on a charge of second-degree murder. Adams was released earlier from a hospital where he had been treated for a superficial, self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Police said Amber Hartwig, 36, was shot in the head with a .45 caliber handgun. Michael S. Adams, 37, was charged last Wednesday with second-degree murder and armed criminal action and is being held on $1 million bond in the Cass County, Mo., jail.

Hartwig was a 1991 graduate of Mason City High School. Adams attended Mason City High School but did not graduate.

He reportedly liked to dress in women’s clothing and had a Facebook social networking account in which he went by “Mischelle Sabrina Adams.”

According to court papers, the couple’s 18-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son were in their bedrooms when the daughter heard two gunshots. She went to find out what happened and found her mother dead on the kitchen floor with her father sitting nearby, smoking a cigarette.

The daughter called 911. Hartwig was determined to be dead at the scene.

Neighbors said Adams had been dressing as a woman for more than a year.

—The Globe Gazette contributed to this story


I wonder if the harmones made him freak out and do that?

[yodajazz]

I wonder if the harmones made him freak out and do that?
You should read the whole thread. There were people who knew her online, before this event happened, saying she had a lot of hostility. I'll tie it to recent events here, saying that while some here, think it is all games, things sometimes play out in real lives, (and death). But just from the news story itself, there were mental health issues involved.

[slingblade]

You should read the whole thread. There were people who knew her online, before this event happened, saying she had a lot of hostility. I'll tie it to recent events here, saying that while some here, think it is all games, things sometimes play out in real lives, (and death). But just from the news story itself, there were mental health issues involved.

Ill go through and read the thread something was wrong