Air France flight that was lost over the Atlantic...

[Deege]

I hope none of the passengers on the plane were some of our favorite models. I know a lot of the famous tgirls are from Brazil...

Just a thought...

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

[Norma]

I hope none of the passengers on the plane were some of our favorite models. I know a lot of the famous tgirls are from Brazil...

Just a thought...

:roll: how shallow can you be?

how bout saying something like , "I would like to wish my condolences to the families of those affected.

I know this is a trans admiration forum, but c'mon.

[Deege]

Well of course I wish my condolences to families of those affected. But those families most definatly aren't reading this forum. They are busy greiving. So why bother?

[Norma]

You don't know for a fact that they don't read or frequent forums such as this.

It's just the right thing to do.

If you want to be a miserable person, so be it.

[2009AD]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

[Deege]

You don't know for a fact that they don't read or frequent forums such as this.

It's just the right thing to do.

If you want to be a miserable person, so be it.

I'm a miserable person just because I wanted to know if anyone that we, on this forum know of was on that flight? :roll:

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

Must you sniff at everything I say?

~Kisses.

HTG

[praetor]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

~Kisses.

HTG

completely away from each other, the Bermuda triangle, central america, the plane crash, africa seashore...maybe the storm and others factors knocks down the A330-200

[praetor]

double post

[DC]

Very sad, RIP to all the passengers and condolences to all the families who lost someone.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

~Kisses.

HTG

completely away from each other, the Bermuda triangle, central america, the plane crash, africa...maybe the storm and others factors to nockdown one A330-200

Hello YOU? I did NOT know that when I READ this post!

I read and replied to the post before I even bothered to goggle it. lol

~Kisses.

HTG

[2009AD]

I thought the statement was odd seeing that a plane flying from Brazil to Europe would not fly over the Bermuda triangle.




Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

Must you sniff at everything I say?

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Yeah, bite me!

:lol:

~Kisses.

HTG

[praetor]

I thought the statement was odd seeing that a plane flying from Brazil to Europe would not fly over the Bermuda triangle.




Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

Must you sniff at everything I say?

~Kisses.

HTG

:arrow:

[praetor]

Maybe it got sucked in by the Bermuda triangle?

~Kisses.

HTG

uh?

He said it was missing..and i replied. I happen to believe in the paranormal. What's wrong with that?

Flight 447 from Rio De Janiro to Paris from what I heard was found and there were no survivors unfortunately.

RiP

~Kisses.

HTG

completely away from each other, the Bermuda triangle, central america, the plane crash, africa...maybe the storm and others factors to nockdown one A330-200

Hello YOU? I did NOT know that when I READ this post!

I read and replied to the post before I even bothered to goggle it. lol

~Kisses.

HTG


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Problem....

Kisses from Rio de Janeiro,

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Again,

http://www.basshero.org/audio/Xer-Bite_me.jpg

~Kisses.

HTG

[praetor]

Again,

http://www.basshero.org/audio/Xer-Bite_me.jpg

~Kisses.

HTG



Imitating Berlusconi: Can I touch you madam?

[praetor]

http://static.guim.co.uk/static/75064/zones/news/images/logo.gif

Air France plane crash: race to find black box after debris spotted

• Lightning alone does not explain crash – ministers
• Questions raised about Airbus computer system
Brazilian military planes scouring the equatorial Atlantic today found a three mile path of wreckage in the Atlantic Ocean confirming that the missing Air France jet carrying 228 people crashed in the sea, the defence minister, Nelson Jobim, said tonight .

He said the discovery "confirms that the plane went down in that area," hundreds of miles from the Brazilian archipelago of Fernando de Noronha.

The announcement came as questions emerged about the track record of the type of aircraft, an Airbus A330, involved.

"There isn't the slightest doubt that the debris is from the Air France plane," Jobim said. He said the strip of wreckage included metallic and nonmetallic pieces, but he did not describe them in detail. No bodies were spotted in the crash of the Airbus A330 in which all aboard are believed to have died.

Earlier in the day air force pilots saw white metallic objects, an aeroplane seat, an orange buoy and jet fuel stains in the water roughly 400 miles north of the archipelago in two areas around 35 miles apart, but there were no signs of life. Two commercial ships reached the site to assist in the search and French naval vessels were on their way last night.

The French military said no confirmation of the plane's wreckage could be made until debris was recovered and serial numbers assessed. Air France flight 447 from Rio to Paris, carrying 216 passengers and 12 crew, mysteriously disappeared early yesterday in heavy weather without sending any distress signal, four hours after taking off from Rio.

Air France announced a "catastrophe", saying the plane could have been hit by lightning. But French ministers yesterday said lightning alone did not explain the crash, which would be the worst air disaster in Air France's 75-year history. "All scenarios have to be envisaged," the French defence minister, Hervé Morin, said yesterday. "We can't rule out a terrorist act since terrorism is the main threat to western democracies, but at this time we don't have any element whatsoever indicating that such an act could have caused this accident."

The environment minister, Jean-Louis Borloo, today described "a race against time" to find the wreckage and the plane's black box flight recorder, without which the crash remained "incomprehensible". He warned that the black box would only emit signals for 30 days. But the Atlantic search area between the coasts of Brazil and Africa remains vast and depths range from 3,000 to 6,000 metres, with currents so strong that the box might never be found. Borloo said that in 2004, when a jet crashed off Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, even with an exact crash point located, it took 15 days to find the flight recorder at a depth of 1,000 metres.

In the case of the Air France flight, the ocean search area is much wider, there is no exact location and depths are estimated to be at least 4,000 metres. The jet sent an automatic message reporting lost pressure and electrical faults before it went missing. But the mystery persisted tonight as to how a modern plane operated by three experienced pilots could have crashed.

A law firm representing victims of a previous serious incident involving an Airbus A330 warned that the aircraft could be vulnerable to electrical interference.

London-based Stewarts Law is preparing to sue Airbus, the Australian airline Qantas and a computer manufacturer, on behalf of 30 people injured when an A330 suddenly plunged 650 feet in flight last October. Air accident investigators blamed the rapid descent at 37,000ft over Western Australia on a malfunctioning computer system. The A330 is a "fly-by-wire" aeroplane that uses an air data computer to guide the aircraft and, if necessary, amend pilot errors.

The A330 has flown 707 million passengers since its launch 15 years ago and this week's crash was its first fatal incident in active service. But in the Qantas case, the aircraft's main navigational tool, the air data inertial reference unit, started emitting "electronic spikes" and plunged the A330 into a dive after mistakenly calculating that the aircraft was pitching its nose into the air. In fact, the aircraft was flying level.

According to one theory being examined by lawyers, the Airbus computer systems could have been affected by inadvertent interference from a nearby naval communications station. Jim Morris, a senior associate at Stewarts Law, said the Air France crash had again raised fears about the aircraft's susceptibility to electromagnetic interference. "It could be that if the A330 is more vulnerable to electromagnetic interference, it could have caused the pilots to lose control of the aircraft during severe turbulence," he said. He added: "The indications from the aircraft's datalink system are that there was a loss of electrical systems in a very short space of time, which indicates that there was a catastrophic failure."

Morris said concerns remained that the full cause of the incident in Australia, on a flight from Singapore to Perth, had not been found. "They still do not know what went wrong with this unit. It might not be as resilient to electromagnetic interference as it should be."

An Airbus spokesman said: "An investigation has just started and it is premature to add to any speculation. We are supporting the investigation.

"There is no information to infer that there is any similarity between what happened in Australia and this case. The A330 has an extremely good safety record and this is the first accident on a commercially operated A330."

[Bobzz]

The nephew of a colleague and good friend of mine was one the plane. The nephew was quite well known in fact, but it goes to show us all, there is only one way out of this "illusion" we call life. We have little or no control of our exit no matter how wealthy, how smart or beautiful we are. T'is a shame no matter how you slice it.

[envivision]

Prateor,

As a Brazilian, don't you find it scary and puzzling that the last 3 major air disasters in the world (Gol in 2006. Tam in 2007, and now this) all have a brazilian connection ? I do.

[praetor]

Prateor,

As a Brazilian, don't you find it scary and puzzling that the last 3 major air disasters in the world (Gol in 2006. Tam in 2007, and now this) all have a brazilian connection ? I do.


The AirFrance A330-200 crash haven't a connection with Gol/Legacy disaster, this caused by the Legacy's pilot, who turned off the transponder over Amazonia. The Gol jet plane was a Boeing 737-800. The TAM crash in São Paulo airport, 2007 with a AirBus A320, haven't a connection either.
TAM and Gol are brazilian airlines, AirFrance, french. We don't know who cause the crash, storm, ray, fuel leak, and others.

[a994]

The nephew of a colleague and good friend of mine was one the plane. The nephew was quite well known in fact, but it goes to show us all, there is only one way out of this "illusion" we call life. We have little or no control of our exit no matter how wealthy, how smart or beautiful we are. T'is a shame no matter how you slice it.

My condolences to each of you. And to each of the families and friends of all those who were aboard the plane.

[thx1138]

latest info: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1190307/Oil-stains-Air-France-Flight-447-prove-plane-blown-sky-terrorists-says-Brazil.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1190760/Debris-Atlantic-NOT-Air-France-jet-say-red-faced-investigators.html

[praetor]

Crash: Air France A332 over Atlantic on June 1st 2009, aircraft impacted ocean
By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Jun 6th 2009 17:46Z, last updated Sunday, Jun 7th 2009 15:18Z

Forca Aerea Brasileira (FAB) have announced today (Jun 6th), that they have found two male bodies today as well as a blue chair (serial number 23701103B331-0 not yet confirmed to be part of F-GZCP), a bag with a vaccination card and a leather briefcase, which contained a ticket for flight AF-447 and a laptop. The bodies and debris were found about 1200km off the coast of mainland Brazil and about 69.5km northwest of the airplane's last ACARS position report.

Air France confirmed the ticket number to be a valid ticket for flight AF-447.

Later the day around 16:00 local the Hercules C-130 spotted another debris field (most interesting find see photo) west of the location, where the two bodies had been found.
http://avherald.com/img/af_a332_f-gzcp_atlantic_090601_3.jpg

Two ships are collecting the debris located so far. The search operation however has still priority to find the other 226 people over locating/recovering debris. Each new find so far has reinforced the need to expand the search area, that already spans more than 200,000 square kilometers (almost the size of the United Kingdom).

Air France said, that Airbus Industries had issued a recommendation to retrofit the pitot tubes in September 2007, giving the operators full freedom to decide about the implementation of the recommendation. Air France had implemented the recommendation to their A320 fleet, but did not retrofit the long range A330s and A340s due to the absence of incidents. Starting May 2008 Air France however observed the loss of air data on their A330 and A340 fleet. These incidents were discussed with Airbus Industries, who identified the problems as icing related and suggested that the modification implemented on the A320 would not resolve the icing issue. In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests however proved, that the new pitot tube design establishes a significant improvement over the previous design. Following a test flight Air France began to implement the retrofit of the new design pitot tubes onto their A330 and A340 fleet on April 27th 2009. Without prejudice Air France has now decided to accelerate that program to retrofit the pitot tubes on the A330/A340 fleet.

On Jun 7th the FAB reported, that they have recovered three more bodies and located several more bodies, which will be recovered shortly. 14 search airplanes and 5 ships are currently engaged in the recovery mission.

Forca Aerea Brasileira (FAB) have confirmed in a press release, that one of the Hercules C-130 search airplanes sighted metallic and non-metallic debris on the ocean surface about 650km northnortheast of Fernando de Noronha Island at around 09:49Z. Two locations, about 60km apart have been identified.

The debris has been identified as an airplane seat, small white pieces, an orange ball, a drum and traces of oil and kerosene.

The Brasilian government now assumes, that these parts belonged to the Air France Airbus and confirms the crash.

The FAB announced, that the crash will be investigated under the lead of the French BEA with the support by Brazil's CENIPA (Centro de Investigação e Prevenção de Acidentes Aeronáuticos, Center for Investigation and Prevention of Aviation Accidents).

The BEA said, 20 investigators supported by 30 engineers from Air France and Airbus Industries have started to collect evidence. A team has been sent to Brazil to secure and analyse recordings of air traffic control frequencies and other evidence in Brazil.

The NTSB said, they have accepted an invitation by the BEA to assist in the investigation and have dispatched Bill English as their representative joined by engineers from the FAA, General Electrics (manufacturer of the CF6 engines) and Honeywell.

On Jun 4th the FAB announced, that they have found debris around 510km northnortheast of Fernando de Noronha. A cargo pallet of about 2.5 square meters and two buoys were recovered. Seven hours later the FAB however had to report, that the recovered debris did not belong to the Air France Airbus.

The BEA announced on June 5th, that so far only these facts have been verified:

- location near the planned route over the Atlantic in the vicinity of significant convective cells characteristic for the equatorial region
- from start of the automatic message transmissions the reported measured speeds were inconsistent.

Airbus Industries reminded all operators of Airbus Aircraft series A300 to A380 of the operational, abnormal and emergency procedures in the relevant Flight Crew Operation Manuals and Quick Reference Manuals regarding flying with unreliable airspeed.

A press conference of BEA on June 6th confirmed, that a total of 24 ACARS messages, 14 within the first minute at 02:10Z, indicating system faults, arrived from the airplane. The message show inconsistencies in the air speeds measured by the three pitot systems of the aircraft rendering the air speed indications unreliable. The BEA however cautioned, that those messages don't say anything about the causes and are not meant as a tool to aid investigations, but mainly reflect the system status and don't tell anything about the why. Although it appears probable, that the messages and the loss of the airplane are related, there is no confirmation of a casual link between the two events. Weather experts of Meteo France said, that the weather development on June 1st (UTC) within the InterTropical Convergence Zone was normal with no anomalies, there was no evidence, that AF-447 encountered a storm of extraordinary intensity. Weather developments were more intense in the days surrounding the accident day.

In the press conference the BEA said, that three methodes of finding the black boxes are currently employed: two ships have been equipped with acoustic equipment from the USA to be able to detect the 160dB(A) signal from the black boxes assumed to be at 4600 meters depth of the ocean. Another "ordinary warship" is tracking the area as well as a nuclear submarine.

BEA also said, that Airbus Industries had already recommended a retrofit of the pitot tubes of the airplane, F-GZCP however had not yet received that new design pitot tubes. Air France is still in the process of replacing the pitot tubes on all their aircraft.

A passenger on board of a TAM Linhas Aereas Airbus A330-200 registration PT-MVH performing flight JJ-8098 from Sao Paulo Guarulhos (Brazil) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) bound to land in Paris about 40 minutes past AF-447 reported, that they were about 4 hours into their flight, when the airplane experienced severe turbulence and began to violently shake. The pilots performed an emergency descent to get into calmer air. Only after about 30 minutes the turbulence ended. Subsequently the airplane reached Paris without further incident.

More details of the ACARS messages have become available on June 5th and suggest following events while the airplane was in cruise (note, there is no message regarding electrics, hydraulics or engine problems):

02:10Z: Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost
02:11Z: Failure of all three ADIRUs
Failure of gyros of ISIS (attitude information lost)
02:12Z: ADIRUs Air Data disagree
02:13Z: Flight Management, Guidance and Envelope Computer fault
PRIM 1 fault
SEC 1 fault
02:14Z: Cabin Pressure Controller fault (cabin vertical speed)


There have been at least two similiar incidents preceding AF-447 (dates of both flights are unknown):

First incident: An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZL performing flight AF-279 from Tokyo Narita (Japan) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was enroute at FL310, when the airplane went through a line of thunderstorms. The captain's air speed indication suddenly dropped to 140 knots, the systems issued an alert regarding disagreeing speeds (NAV IAS DISCREPANCY), the navigation display showed a tail wind component of 250 knots. The captain released control of the airplane to the first officer and tried to switch his display from ADIRU1 to ADIRU3. 2 minutes later autopilot and autothrust disconnected and the fly by wire changed into alternate law. The crew noticed icing conditions (static air temperature [SAT] -29 degrees Centigrade) and switched anti ice including pitot heating systems from automatic to on. The speed indications became normal again and agreed again, the autoflight systems were reengaged and ATC informed of severe icing. ATC reported, that two flights had just passed the location without problems. When the crew attempted to reset and reengage ADIRU 1 two times, the system again brought the message "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY" on both attempts, although the speed data appeared consistent. The crew suspected polluted pitot tubes.

Maintenance found, that the drainage holes of all three pitot tubes had been clogged, rendering it very likely that weather combined with the clogged drainage holes caused the incident. Maintenance had reported more clogged drainage holes on A330 and A340 aircraft in the past to Airbus Industries. Airbus Industries was aware of the problems, changes had already been introduced to the pitot tubes on the A320 family, where similiar problems had occured. A modification of the A330/A340 pitot tubes was already planned by AI.

Second incident: An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZN performing a flight from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to New York JFK,NY (USA), encountered brief turbulence while enroute. The autoflight systems dropped offline, "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY", "NAV PRED W/S DET FAULT" and stall alerts were repeatedly issued during the following two minutes. The airplane continued to JFK without further incident. A review of the policy of retrofitting pitot tubes was recommended and authorities informed.

http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1/0022&opt=0

[Azanti]

the whole thing was tragic whatever way you look at it.

[praetor]

:arrow:

[praetor]

Crash: Air France A332 over Atlantic on June 1st 2009, aircraft impacted ocean
By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Jun 6th 2009 17:46Z, last updated Sunday, Jun 7th 2009 20:02Z

Forca Aerea Brasileira (FAB) have announced today (Jun 6th), that they have found two male bodies today as well as a blue chair (serial number 23701103B331-0 not yet confirmed to be part of F-GZCP), a bag with a vaccination card and a leather briefcase, which contained a ticket for flight AF-447 and a laptop. The bodies and debris were found about 1200km off the coast of mainland Brazil and about 69.5km northwest of the airplane's last ACARS position report.

Air France confirmed the ticket number to be a valid ticket for flight AF-447.

Later the day around 16:00 local the Hercules C-130 spotted another debris field (most interesting find see photo) west of the location, where the two bodies had been found

Two ships are collecting the debris located so far. The search operation however has still priority to find the other 226 people over locating/recovering debris. Each new find so far has reinforced the need to expand the search area, that already spans more than 200,000 square kilometers (almost the size of the United Kingdom).

Air France said, that Airbus Industries had issued a recommendation to retrofit the pitot tubes in September 2007, giving the operators full freedom to decide about the implementation of the recommendation. Air France had implemented the recommendation to their A320 fleet, but did not retrofit the long range A330s and A340s due to the absence of incidents. Starting May 2008 Air France however observed the loss of air data on their A330 and A340 fleet. These incidents were discussed with Airbus Industries, who identified the problems as icing related and suggested that the modification implemented on the A320 would not resolve the icing issue. In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests however proved, that the new pitot tube design establishes a significant improvement over the previous design. Following a test flight Air France began to implement the retrofit of the new design pitot tubes onto their A330 and A340 fleet on April 27th 2009. Without prejudice Air France has now decided to accelerate that program to retrofit the pitot tubes on the A330/A340 fleet.

On Jun 7th the FAB reported, that they have recovered three more bodies and located several more bodies, which will be recovered shortly. 14 search airplanes and 5 ships are currently engaged in the recovery mission. Later the day the FAB released a first picture of the ticket recovered on June 6th.


The ticket recovered in the ocean (Photo: FAB):
http://avherald.com/img/af_a332_f-gzcp_atlantic_090601_4.jpg

[praetor]

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/foto/0,,21009580-FMM,00.jpg


http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/foto/0,,21009582-FMM,00.jpg

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Mundo/0,,MUL1186059-5602,00-MARINHA+E+AERONAUTICA+DIVULGAM+IMAGENS+DE+DESTROCO S.html

[Coroner]

They´ve found 5 corpses so far. The cause will be known when they find the black box. Everything else is speculation.

[BeardedOne]

This disturbing snippet comes from the most recent AP update:

In Brazil, Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz said nine bodies have been recovered by Brazilian authorities: four men, four women and one that was impossible to identify by gender.

[mikejones]

They´ve found 5 corpses so far. The cause will be known when they find the black box. Everything else is speculation.

True, but I suspect that they will now perform the pitot tube modification on the rest of their fleet regardless of the outcome here.

A terrible tragedy irrespective of the cause.

[thx1138]

http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.2512885.0.key_figures_in_global_battle _against_illegal_arms_trade_lost_in_air_france_cra sh.php

[JamesHunt]

one thing that worries me about these airlines is that they know there is certain mechanical situations with aircraft, but after a disaster, they say there is no need to worry. The DC-10, and its dodgy cargo bay door, the 737's rudder problem. It's a classic problem of huge profit over human life. Grounding hundreds of aircraft costs millions of dollars, saying sorry to hundreds of victims costs nothing.

[praetor]

Prateor,

As a Brazilian, don't you find it scary and puzzling that the last 3 major air disasters in the world (Gol in 2006. Tam in 2007, and now this) all have a brazilian connection ? I do.


Air France said, that Airbus Industries had issued a recommendation to retrofit the pitot tubes in September 2007, giving the operators full freedom to decide about the implementation of the recommendation. Air France had implemented the recommendation to their A320 fleet, but did not retrofit the long range A330s and A340s due to the absence of incidents. Starting May 2008 Air France however observed the loss of air data on their A330 and A340 fleet. These incidents were discussed with Airbus Industries, who identified the problems as icing related and suggested that the modification implemented on the A320 would not resolve the icing issue. In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests however proved, that the new pitot tube design establishes a significant improvement over the previous design. Following a test flight Air France began to implement the retrofit of the new design pitot tubes onto their A330 and A340 fleet on April 27th 2009. Without prejudice Air France has now decided to accelerate that program to retrofit the pitot tubes on the A330/A340 fleet.


http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1/0022&opt=0