Transsexual on hunger strike

[JamesHunt]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8045268.stm

A transsexual from Nottinghamshire has warned she will end her life if she is refused hormone treatment on the NHS.

Debbie Davies, from Rainworth, is seven days into a hunger strike, and said she cannot afford to fund her treatment.

Ms Davies, who was born as Richard in 1966, has been living as a woman for the past 18 months.

Nottinghamshire County PCT has urged Debbie to stop the hunger strike and is currently reviewing its policy for patients who want to change gender.

Ms Davies wants a full surgical sex change but said she cannot afford to fund it privately.

"It is the only way I can get the message across to the PCT about how important this is to me," she said.

"By no means do I want to end my life - it's not a suicide attempt. I don't have a life if I don't do this, if I don't become complete - there is no life to live.

"It just feels like the onset of a cold at the moment, I get tired easily, I would kill for steak and chips."

Ms Davies, who used to work as a welder as Richard but now works as an IT consultant, said she has bought her own hormone pills online in the past but can no longer afford to keep up the treatment.

She said she had been prescribed a one-off supply of the hormone pills by her GP but this is due to run out this month.

'Consistent approach'

"I've paid £25,000 out of my own money and I haven't got anything else - the health authority have some responsibility to support and treat me," she added.

Amanda Sullivan, of Nottinghamshire County PCT, said: "We are sorry and concerned to hear Debbie is on hunger strike.

"We have offered to meet with Debbie and we would prefer to resolve this through communication.

"We've asked for a review across the whole of the East Midlands.

"We have a body of clinical experts who are reviewing in detail the way in which we treat people who want gender reassignment - we are keen to have a consistent approach."

Ms Sullivan said the outcome of the review is expected by the end of the month.

[tubgirl]

"I've paid £25,000 out of my own money and I haven't got anything else - the health authority have some responsibility to support and treat me," she added.


why?

[SarahG]

I am kinda confused, 25k pounds is like $50,000 US dollars.

How is it even possible to spend that much on JUST hrt?

Even if you were diy, and even if you were using abnormally high dosages of the most expensive stuff around- that's less than 5 USD a year.

[thx1138]

I hope she's "too big to fail." The british gov't is trillions in debt. Another 100k won't matter much.

[tstv_lover]

"I've paid £25,000 out of my own money and I haven't got anything else - the health authority have some responsibility to support and treat me," she added.


why?

Tubgirl - please get rid of that avatar...I'm feeling sick :puke

As for the "why?" - interesting question. It comes down to what we consider to be reasonable level of social responsibility. Let's take 2 examples:

A. If someone had cronic heart problems or mental health issues then we would reasonably expect the health authority to pay costs of treatment.

B. If someone wanted to become a ballet dancer or artist then it wouldn't be reasonable.

The difference being that in the A the ailment is not of the persons making. In B it's a personal choice.

Following this reasoning, if a cross-dresser or transvestite wanted Government money - through allowances or other benefits - to buy feminine clothes for their personal use then that would not be reasonable - it's a personal choice. However, a transsexual who seeks SRS to help her transition is different. It's not her "fault" that she was born in a male body. She is seeking treatment for a condition over which she has no control and falls into category A.

Be interested to know what others think. The big issue for the health authority is not the 50,000 pounds or however much it costs, but the precedent and likely future costs.

[MacShreach]

"I've paid £25,000 out of my own money and I haven't got anything else - the health authority have some responsibility to support and treat me," she added.


why?

Tubgirl - please get rid of that avatar...I'm feeling sick :puke

As for the "why?" - interesting question. It comes down to what we consider to be reasonable level of social responsibility. Let's take 2 examples:

A. If someone had cronic heart problems or mental health issues then we would reasonably expect the health authority to pay costs of treatment.

B. If someone wanted to become a ballet dancer or artist then it wouldn't be reasonable.

The difference being that in the A the ailment is not of the persons making. In B it's a personal choice.

Following this reasoning, if a cross-dresser or transvestite wanted Government money - through allowances or other benefits - to buy feminine clothes for their personal use then that would not be reasonable - it's a personal choice. However, a transsexual who seeks SRS to help her transition is different. It's not her "fault" that she was born in a male body. She is seeking treatment for a condition over which she has no control and falls into category A.

Be interested to know what others think. The big issue for the health authority is not the 50,000 pounds or however much it costs, but the precedent and likely future costs.

I agree with you on the part I've put in bold; the fact that very often this is NOT how the situation for transsexuals is seen, in that they are lumped in with crossdressers and transvestites, is hugely damaging and one reason why we absolutely MUST get away from the ridiculous "points on a scale" theory, or for that matter the "two types of TS" bullshit of Blanchard and Bailey.

Transsexualism is an innate, intersexed condition for which we do not yet know the specific cause, but which we do know how to treat successfully and relatively cheaply using hormones and GRS surgery. It is NOT THE SAME as CD/TV, nor are these "points on a scale of transition," no matter how many people wish they were.

In the UK, treatment of transsexuals is notoriously patchy. While there are national guidelines for England, Scotland and Wales (all different) these are interpreted by local Health authorities, trusts etc.. Some are very definitely better than others and it looks as if East Midlands is a bad one.

The situation was really thrown into the air a couple of years ago when Dr Russell Reid was hauled before the BMA on what were, frankly, trumped-up charges brought by a number of old-school psychiatrists acting in collusion with a transvestite man who claimed he had "wrongly" been operated on (despite the fact that he pursued GRS surgery for years, had persistently lied to care professionals and knew exactly what he was doing. Personal responsibility, anyone?)

Reid was discredited and had to retire from medicine. This has had a terrible effect: Reid took the view that the patients' wishes and desires were paramount and would put the minimum of difficulties in the way of someone seeking GRS; since then practitioners have erred on the side of caution. According to people who attend it, the Charing Cross Hospital clinic in London, the biggest clinic for the care of transsexuals in UK, is now so backlogged it can take over a year to get an initial appointment.

Local health authorities, boards, etc, are under pressure to save money, and if reactionary and benighted pycho-quacks can persuade them they can do so by "treating" transsexual patients with psychotherapy (read: waste more time and make more money), they may see this as an easy solution, since transsexual women, partly due to their association with CD/TV men, are perceived as having little public sympathy as well as being too few in number to cause embarrassment.

Looks like this lady proved them wrong on that last, at least.

[GroobySteven]

Well put Mac - I disagree with you on a lot but this was spot on.
However, given tubgirls history I don't think the "why" was why did she need help but "why we'd pay any money" in the USA, they'd have to pay for everything themselves.

[MacShreach]

Well put Mac - I disagree with you on a lot but this was spot on.
.

Thank you; if everyone agreed about everything, there would be no progress. I respect your ability to see the merit in disagreement and other points of view. But I am glad we agree on this.

[MacShreach]

<snip>given tubgirls history I don't think the "why" was why did she need help but "why we'd pay any money" in the USA, they'd have to pay for everything themselves.

Och, just put it down to my ongoing attempt to enlighten certain Americans to the fact that the world is not a fuzzy line encircling the USA.....

[T Oracle]

Is anyone aware of a general problem with Nottinghamshire PCT and treatment of TS? (Searched Internet and cannot find it if such exists).

The story at the moment seems to be one person who's unhappy with the PCT. Anyone aware of more?

[SarahG]

Well put Mac - I disagree with you on a lot but this was spot on.
However, given tubgirls history I don't think the "why" was why did she need help but "why we'd pay any money" in the USA, they'd have to pay for everything themselves.

Which isn't a totally bad thing, the one advantage to private health care is you don't have to put up with the crap that passes as trans health care in some parts of the UK (or Canada's NHS for that matter). A year to get that initial appointment, followed by anywhere up to 6 years to actually GET on hrt (depending on where you are), that's a complete disaster for anyone who isn't already middle aged.

I can't speak to the UK but it seems trans health care is the first thing that gets cut when money gets tight in Canadian NHS. They flatly tell patients, as they do in some parts of the UK "unless you're going to kill yourself for not having srs, we don't have the budget to pay for it."

Plus, under the American system, you'd have more of your income to spend on private trans health care, because you're not being taxed to pay for a NHS that refuses to properly treat you.

The downside (big downside) that almost no one mentions is that if you can't come up with the money, well, then you're fucked. But, that can also be said for the people who go private in the UK or Canada. :shrug

The two systems are about equal in terms of accountability, or at least that's been my impression. In the US if you can't afford to travel, or don't have transportation to do so, you're options just suck when it comes to finding someone who actually knows what they're doing (or at the least, isn't an asshat). Which is true in Canadian NHS, the unlucky people who can't get the fuck out of Toronto have no choice BUT to get their treatment from Blanchard at the Clarke Institute, that clinic's abusive practices are essentially government sponsored threw the way Canadian NHS works. I am overjoyed that we've largely abandoned the clinic system, nothing good can come from it.

The US has had its horror stories with EMT's leaving tgirls in auto accidents to bleed to death simply because they were trans, but on that same coin Canada had a few incidents in Quebec where trans patients were kicked onto the sidewalks from the ER's because the hospital staff didn't want to treat a trans person (nothing, that I ever heard of, came of the incident). To be fair I am not sure Quebec would be a good way to look at Canadian NHS as a whole, given the separatism.

[MacShreach]

Well put Mac - I disagree with you on a lot but this was spot on.
However, given tubgirls history I don't think the "why" was why did she need help but "why we'd pay any money" in the USA, they'd have to pay for everything themselves.

Which isn't a totally bad thing, the one advantage to private health care is you don't have to put up with the crap that passes as trans health care in some parts of the UK (or Canada's NHS for that matter). A year to get that initial appointment, followed by anywhere up to 6 years to actually GET on hrt (depending on where you are), that's a complete disaster for anyone who isn't already middle aged.

I can't speak to the UK but it seems trans health care is the first thing that gets cut when money gets tight in Canadian NHS. They flatly tell patients, as they do in some parts of the UK "unless you're going to kill yourself for not having srs, we don't have the budget to pay for it."

Plus, under the American system, you'd have more of your income to spend on private trans health care, because you're not being taxed to pay for a NHS that refuses to properly treat you.

The downside (big downside) that almost no one mentions is that if you can't come up with the money, well, then you're fucked. But, that can also be said for the people who go private in the UK or Canada. :shrug

The two systems are about equal in terms of accountability, or at least that's been my impression. In the US if you can't afford to travel, or don't have transportation to do so, you're options just suck when it comes to finding someone who actually knows what they're doing (or at the least, isn't an asshat). Which is true in Canadian NHS, the unlucky people who can't get the fuck out of Toronto have no choice BUT to get their treatment from Blanchard at the Clarke Institute, that clinic's abusive practices are essentially government sponsored threw the way Canadian NHS works. I am overjoyed that we've largely abandoned the clinic system, nothing good can come from it.

The US has had its horror stories with EMT's leaving tgirls in auto accidents to bleed to death simply because they were trans, but on that same coin Canada had a few incidents in Quebec where trans patients were kicked onto the sidewalks from the ER's because the hospital staff didn't want to treat a trans person (nothing, that I ever heard of, came of the incident). To be fair I am not sure Quebec would be a good way to look at Canadian NHS as a whole, given the separatism.

I have a very ambivalent attitude towards NHS care as provided in the UK....I think I have probably seen both the best and the worst of it, in terms of my immediate family and those close to me. Some things it does very well indeed and some.....oh dearie, dearie me. It is definitely excessively bureaucratic, inflexible, irritating to the nth degree, imposes ludicrous burdens on the families of those receiving treatment..How about receiving a call at ten o'clock at night from the hospital where a relative is receiving treatment.

"Hello? Your relative can go home now."

"You mean in the morning?"

"No, I mean now."

"How do you plan to get her home?"

"You'll have to come and get her. Tonight."

"You realise it is after ten, I live nearly forty miles away and I have been working all day?"

"We can't help that. The bed is has been scheduled for someone else in the morning."

"Well, put her in an ambulance and I'll get her house open."

"Can't do that."

"Why not."

"The non-urgent ambulance service goes off at nine. It's too late."

"*&%*&%*%*)^%"*)%*"£%*")%*)P&_(^%!!!!!!!!!!!"

You couldn't make it up.


...but if you get diagnosed with cancer, well, it does not fuck about. And the same is true of many other diseases.

[tubgirl]

the "why?" was for: why does she feel that she has a reason of entitlement for other people's money...

[SarahG]

the "why?" was for: why does she feel that she has a reason of entitlement for other people's money...

Why does everyone else feel they're entitled to tax her to pay for THEIR health care, when that same program won't properly care for her?

[hippifried]

Aren't you supposed to fast before surgery anyway?

[SarahG]

Aren't you supposed to fast before surgery anyway?

Only if you're overweight.

Some surgeries require you not eat or drink after midnight, the night before- but IIRC that's because of concerns dealing with the anesthesia more than anything else.

Some will say that you need to stop HRT for so many days before, but I've had trouble finding a real medical reason to justify this requirement. It seems most surgeons tell patients to go off estrogen & spiro a week or two before a surgery, because so many other surgeons do.

In any case, my impression from the article is that she's using the hunger strike in asking for HRT, not in asking for srs.

[MacShreach]

the "why?" was for: why does she feel that she has a reason of entitlement for other people's money...

As I said, the world is not a fuzzy line around the US border...She doesn't feel she has an entitlement to other people's money, she feels rightly outraged that a system she has been paying huge amounts into all her working life is refusing to deliver the care she needs....and has paid for.

Geography. It's not an abstract concept. :wink:

[SarahG]

Geography. It's not an abstract concept. :wink:

Once again, I blame the public schooling system.

[hippifried]

Aren't you supposed to fast before surgery anyway?

Only if you're overweight.

Some surgeries require you not eat or drink after midnight, the night before- but IIRC that's because of concerns dealing with the anesthesia more than anything else.

Some will say that you need to stop HRT for so many days before, but I've had trouble finding a real medical reason to justify this requirement. It seems most surgeons tell patients to go off estrogen & spiro a week or two before a surgery, because so many other surgeons do.

In any case, my impression from the article is that she's using the hunger strike in asking for HRT, not in asking for srs.oh. Well I was just being facetious, but I imagine starving oneself to death would cure obesity problems too. Sorry, but it all just seems a tad melodramatic. If this is serious at all, I imagine the health plan would pay for the psychiatric care.


As for geography:
It's easy. There's America, & all those foreign places.

[Danielle Foxx]

I think all trannies should go on a porn strike

[hippifried]

I think all trannies should go on a porn strike :jawdrop NO!!!

That'd be like the end of the world, wouldn't it?

The internet might collapse!!