my philosphy regarding the ts genre

[AverageJob]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

[NYBURBS]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

/sarcasm on
Wow an original post about something that has never been discussed here before. :roll:
/sarcasm off

In all seriousness though, there are literally hundreds of threads about this issue. Why not just go bump one? :lol:

[yosi]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

you are in a forum about women who happen to have cocks, some of them like to use their cocks because it's there , it gives them pleasure , that happens you know :wink:

[MacShreach]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

Well, personally, if there's any likelihood of men getting "topped" at all, I'll watch standard GG porn. But I support your honesty.


:popcorn

I think I'll just kick back a bit and watch the cock-hounds baying for your blood now.

[DC]

I can't believe the mentality of some posters, how many times do people have to come out with these stupid statements.
Who gives a fuck, do what feels good...

[alyssats]

^ true

[LTR_Seeker]

i rather top alyssa

[MacShreach]

I can't believe the mentality of some posters, how many times do people have to come out with these stupid statements.


Why is it stupid? Because you don't agree with it?

It just happens to be someone else's point of view, which is no less valid, or more stupid, than yours.

What is amusing about these threads is not the OP but the cock-hound response, which is so predictable you could write it in advance. Sort of like the chickens running round the barnyard when a fox happens by.

[MacShreach]

i rather top alyssa

I second THAT emotion...

[dgs925]

I can't believe the mentality of some posters, how many times do people have to come out with these stupid statements.


Why is it stupid? Because you don't agree with it?

It just happens to be someone else's point of view, which is no less valid, or more stupid, than yours.

What is amusing about these threads is not the OP but the cock-hound response, which is so predictable you could write it in advance. Sort of like the chickens running round the barnyard when a fox happens by.

It's also so predictable that homophobe Mac will come in and make derisive comments about other members of the board.

What's lame about this post is how little effort the OP went through to make a point thats been discussed over and over and over on this board.

[T-girl hound]

:popcorn

[alyssats]

i rather top alyssa

I second THAT emotion...

you can top me guys anytime uhmmm yum yum :wink:

[tsmandy]

Wait the original poster said he'd rather watch gay porn than movies with TS topping. That's a new twist, most guys don't admit to liking gay porn here.

So my question is what kind of TS porn do you like? The kind where TS are getting topped? Playing with each other?

[MacShreach]

blah

Oh look, a chicken squawking-- I knew it was only a matter of time....

Tell me, Sherlock, if I am homophobic, why did I support the OP?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oops! Do I hear another squawk?

[MacShreach]

i rather top alyssa

I second THAT emotion...

you can top me guys anytime uhmmm yum yum :wink:

If you don't stop that I'm going to upset the desk when I stand up, you exquisite darling. :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Coroner]

:o

[macjay18]

Man I totally agree....I dont want to see a shemale banging a bloke. I see them as a female with a little extra and like to see them in that submissive female role bouncing up on down on her man. No matter who it is- whether it is Yasmine lee or Vicki Richter I will end up skipping to the next scene if it has them topping some hairy bloke.

[alyssats]

Man I totally agree....I dont want to see a shemale banging a bloke. I see them as a female with a little extra and like to see them in that submissive female role bouncing up on down on her man. No matter who it is- whether it is Yasmine lee or Vicki Richter I will end up skipping to the next scene if it has them topping some hairy bloke.

:shrug

[macjay18]

each to their own though.

[Bob's Tgirls]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

If I only want to see girls getting topped, I'll just watch standard straight porn. The fact that transsexuals can do both is what makes transsexual porn interesting. Otherwise it's the same done a zillion times straight porn that's been done to death.

I see no point in buying a transsexual DVD in which the girls only bottom.

[Coroner]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

If I only want to see girls getting topped, I'll just watch standard straight porn. The fact that transsexuals can do both is what makes transsexual porn interesting. Otherwise it's the same done a zillion times straight porn that's been done to death.

I see no point in buying a transsexual DVD in which the girls only bottom.

I think when the girls are bottom, the scene is focused on them. When you see a guy getting fucked, it becomes uncomfortable if you´re not into dudes.

[DC]

Bob hit the nail on the head

[MacShreach]

I see no point in buying a transsexual DVD in which the girls only bottom.

Well, this is one potential customer, and I can see I'm not alone, who will not buy any porn that has men being penetrated.

I like porn where women get fucked and love it; I don't care what gay men's fetish is, and I don't condemn them for it, but I don't care to watch, thanks.

[Dino Velvet]

Add me to the list of liking T-Girls being submissive bottoms. I also fast-forward the parts where guys are getting fucked. I realize there's a market for guys wanting to see T-Girls top and I don't judge those who like it.

I'd like to fuck Alyssa too.

[2009AD]

Add me to the list of liking T-Girls being submissive bottoms. I also fast-forward the parts where guys are getting fucked.


Well, this is one potential customer, and I can see I'm not alone, who will not buy any porn that has men being penetrated.

Well said gentlemen, but I'm afraid we are in the minority.

[T-girl hound]

I like eeing ts top gg's

[MacShreach]

I like eeing ts top gg's

I can take that or leave it...doesn't do a lot for me. If I watch it at all I'm probably watching the GG so she has to be hot, and looking like she's enjoying it.

(There is one honourable exception to this rule, I have to admit.)

[dgs925]

Add me to the list of liking T-Girls being submissive bottoms. I also fast-forward the parts where guys are getting fucked.


Well, this is one potential customer, and I can see I'm not alone, who will not buy any porn that has men being penetrated.

Well said gentlemen, but I'm afraid we are in the minority.

Well just keep patting each other on the back and talking about how "not gay" you are.

[2009AD]

Add me to the list of liking T-Girls being submissive bottoms. I also fast-forward the parts where guys are getting fucked.


Well, this is one potential customer, and I can see I'm not alone, who will not buy any porn that has men being penetrated.

Well said gentlemen, but I'm afraid we are in the minority.

Well just keep patting each other on the back and talking about how "not gay" you are.

Uh? What on earth are you talking about? Is it ok for a few guys to state their preference? Why so defensive?

[Instrumental]

I don't like watching porn where the dude gets topped (be it TS, gay or a gg with a strap on) but I'd be into getting topped myself. I guess that's a weird mentality but I dunno, watching a guy get screwed isn't the least bit attractive to me.

[MacShreach]

Uh? What on earth are you talking about? Is it ok for a few guys to state their preference? Why so defensive?

Maybe he's a.......

[alyssats]

Add me to the list of liking T-Girls being submissive bottoms. I also fast-forward the parts where guys are getting fucked. I realize there's a market for guys wanting to see T-Girls top and I don't judge those who like it.

I'd like to fuck Alyssa too.

owww yes shag my pussy naughty boy ;)

[alyssats]

by the way have you noticed the facial reactions of guys whenever a ts topped them, so immaculate i love it

[JonnyT]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

i would agree. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

[yosi]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

i would agree. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

topping a transexual is also not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior 8)

so what? :wink:

it is sex with a WOMAN with cock, A WOMAN who was born in the wrong body.

stop being so homophobic about it :!:

[canihavu]

I can't believe the mentality of some posters, how many times do people have to come out with these stupid statements.
Who gives a fuck, do what feels good...

I agree...

[dgs925]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

[canihavu]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

I never pay any attention to fools like that, lol. I like what I like. Damn what anybody else thinks about it.

[SarahG]

Well just keep patting each other on the back and talking about how "not gay" you are.

IDK if this was meant as a joke or not, but it made me LOL.

[canihavu]

by the way have you noticed the facial reactions of guys whenever a ts topped them, so immaculate i love it

That shit hurts, lol.

[dgs925]

Well just keep patting each other on the back and talking about how "not gay" you are.

IDK if this was meant as a joke or not, but it made me LOL.I'll take a laugh wherever I can get one. We should all take ourselves a little less seriously around here.

[bte]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

Bravo for your honesty. Personally, I don't like to watch guys getting topped, but some people like seeing it. Whatever floats their boat I suppose.

[NYBURBS]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

You mean like this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

[SarahG]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

You mean like this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

http://www.hungangels.com/board/images/smiles/popcorn.gif

[barefootjoe69]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

You mean like this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

:lol: :lol: Thats funny stuff!

[MacShreach]

. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

You're right. The trouble is some people are determined that lusting after cock up their arses doesn't make them gay.

I mean, what's wrong with being gay anyway? Doesn't make you a bad person.

:shrug

[alyssats]

There are a group of posters on here who feel the need to point out how straight they are at every opportunity. Look at almost any thread on here, you'll find some guy making a comment about a lady's penis. Right after that you'll find these others saying how gay the other guy is.

Mention anything about the pre-op's genitalia, other than to express the fact that you ignore it and these guys call you a fag. I just find it really amusing, because it is one hundred percent true that straight guys don't watch transsexual porn, and I'm guessing that gay men don't either. As far as I'm concerned all the men who visit this site are bi, even the ones who won't admit it.

It's just really lame that they can't seem to be ok with their own sexuality without ridiculing others. I really can't see any other reason for constantly pointing out "I like tgirls, but I like them as girls". We believe you, now talk about something else for fuck's sake.

Now comes the point where Mac misquotes me and calls me gay (I guess it makes him feel more straight to do so).

You mean like this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

ohh my goshhh i just watched the video so cute jeje

[Instrumental]

. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

You're right. The trouble is some people are determined that lusting after cock up their arses doesn't make them gay.

If they enjoy sexual acts with women as well then it doesn't make them gay but bisexual. The term "topped" even though originating its use in describing gay sex doesn't mean it cannot be accurately applied to other sex acts between other people as well. You are right though, nothing wrong with being gay.

[giovanni_hotel]

SO I guess blowing TGs is a no-no too??

Hey, I used to be confused until very recently by my unusual attraction to tgirls too, before I discovered the overwhelming consumers of TG porn are "straight" men.

Anatomically and structurally, a gg's clit is quite similar to a tg's 'girl' penis, or whatever you wanna call it :)

In my mind, there must be something more to hetero men's fascination with trans hardcore than a latent homosexuality or being bi.

On one hand, it's a simple explanation, and in another way, it's a more complicated matter.

I quit trying to sort it out a while ago and just accepted that's how I'm wired, and know that if the opportunity arises, ( and every day it seems more likely), that I have an intimate encounter with the right trans lady, life as it exists for me currently will never be the same.

I can say what turned me off somewhat to conventional straight porn was that, for the most part, it was contrived; most the females performers are faking their orgasms.

But this isn't the case in TG porn. In general, it's really hard to fake a genuine cum shot.

That's where it started for me, actually seeing real lust/passion on screen and not some pornstar going through her scene positions.

Nowadays I will only watch homemade/amateur straight porn, or strictly TG material.

I mean, I can't deny that's how I feel, so I just go with it.

Even though the sex acts I desire to do/have done with a tgirl, would never occur to me in the presence of another man.

Certainly, I'm not the only hetero man who faces this dilemma, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

It just is. Life goes on.

Don't worry, be happy.

[macjay18]

Man I totally agree giovanni, I love amateur homevid shit eh.

I would love to enjoy shemales banging guys but i just cant get into it, its not something that really exhilerates me. A TS on a TS is probably one step up, i really enjoyed the clip with vicki richter and joanna jett on the pool table but any lil shemale getting hammered by a big dude like Christian or something is exactly the role i like seeing- a lil petite thing in a feminine role getting hammered. Thats how most shemales see themselves- as a feminine entity and that is how i see them too.

[MacShreach]

. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

You're right. The trouble is some people are determined that lusting after cock up their arses doesn't make them gay.

If they enjoy sexual acts with women as well then it doesn't make them gay but bisexual.

Agreed.

[a994]

. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

You're right. The trouble is some people are determined that lusting after cock up their arses doesn't make them gay.


And I guess letting a GG stick her finger into a guy's behind while he's penetrating her vagina DOES make him indisputably gay, right?

Perhaps even moreso than a dude snuggling with another dude and going no further? After all, the dude only lets GGs, not men, use their fingers to explore the inside of his behind.

Wake me up when someone posts the 100,000th thread rehashing this subject (yawn).

[yosi]

. the term "topped" is a gay reference anyway. a male being topped is one performing a known gay sex act. it is not considered "normal" straight sexual behavior.

You're right. The trouble is some people are determined that lusting after cock up their arses doesn't make them gay.

If they enjoy sexual acts with women as well then it doesn't make them gay but bisexual.

Agreed.

not agreed 8)

if the transexuals can and are considered as the "third sex"
why do you keep labeling as there are 2 sexes only?

it's all in the head , with traces of homophobic fears.

enjoy it and don't worry about labels :!:

[NYBURBS]

You mean like this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

ohh my goshhh i just watched the video so cute jeje



:lol: :lol: Thats funny stuff!

Glad you both liked it :wink:

[SarahG]

if the transexuals can and are considered as the "third sex"
why do you keep labeling as there are 2 sexes only?

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=44258&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

Excerpt:


If we're to even buy into that trans people are some "other gender separate from GG's and GB's" then that is a theory involving no less than 4, and perhaps as many as 5 genders once you take... say- FtM's into consideration.

To say all trans people are a "third gender" is ridiculous if it means grouping FtM's and MtF's together as "one gender."

[yosi]

if the transexuals can and are considered as the "third sex"
why do you keep labeling as there are 2 sexes only?

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=44258&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

Excerpt:


If we're to even buy into that trans people are some "other gender separate from GG's and GB's" then that is a theory involving no less than 4, and perhaps as many as 5 genders once you take... say- FtM's into consideration.

To say all trans people are a "third gender" is ridiculous if it means grouping FtM's and MtF's together as "one gender."




So if transsexuals aren't the 3rd gender ( by the way thats the name of my production company ) then what are you jacking off to? Men? Because last time I checked I was born with a disorder called G.I.D. that's the most "medical" term they can give it without saying we are freaks.

[SarahG]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

[SarahG]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

To clarify, let's use a differently worded question, complete with a visual aid:

How many people here would consider the guy on the left, and the girl on the right- to be of the SAME gender?

If we will agree GG's and GB's are opposite genders, then would it not stand to reason that T-GIRLS and T-GUYS are opposite genders similarly?

[MacShreach]

don't worry about labels

Ah, a labelphobic. I had my suspicions.:lol: :lol: :lol:

I understand, yosi, I really do; you want dick up your arse but you don't have the spine to accept that this is a homosexual desire.

It is genuinely hilarious--I mean I laugh out loud every time--at a bunch of grown men running around squawking like chickens whenever it is pointed out that their desire-- to have cock in them-- is, as far as anybody else is concerned, a homosexual desire.

What I don't get is exactly what you guys think is so terrible about having homosexual desires that makes you deny them all the time.

I think your homophobia is showing. :wink:

[MacShreach]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

To clarify, let's use a differently worded question, complete with a visual aid:

How many people here would consider the guy on the left, and the girl on the right- to be of the SAME gender?

If we will agree GG's and GB's are opposite genders, then would it not stand to reason that T-GIRLS and T-GUYS are opposite genders similarly?

Of course you are right, Sarah; but it may help to focus on what these men ACTUALLY see and lust after when they talk about T-GIRLS. (And let us not forget the extent to which photoshopping and photographic techniques, eg wideangle lenses, are used to further enhance and emophasise the ONLY part of the T-Girl these men are interested in.)

[SarahG]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

To clarify, let's use a differently worded question, complete with a visual aid:

How many people here would consider the guy on the left, and the girl on the right- to be of the SAME gender?

If we will agree GG's and GB's are opposite genders, then would it not stand to reason that T-GIRLS and T-GUYS are opposite genders similarly?

Of course you are right, Sarah; but it may help to focus on what these men ACTUALLY see and lust after when they talk about T-GIRLS. (And let us not forget the extent to which photoshopping and photographic techniques, eg wideangle lenses, are used to further enhance and emophasise the ONLY part of the T-Girl these men are interested in.)

I say they add the question to next year's SAT's.

"Girls are to guys, as Tgirls are to _____"

Is it:

A- Parking lots
B- Children
C- Tguys
D- All of the above


The correct answer is C...

[MacShreach]

if the transexuals can and are considered as the "third sex"
why do you keep labeling as there are 2 sexes only?

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=44258&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

Excerpt:


If we're to even buy into that trans people are some "other gender separate from GG's and GB's" then that is a theory involving no less than 4, and perhaps as many as 5 genders once you take... say- FtM's into consideration.

To say all trans people are a "third gender" is ridiculous if it means grouping FtM's and MtF's together as "one gender."

I think attempts to add more genders are, while perhaps well-meant, ultimately confusing and unhelpful.

One thing I note when discussing this with some men here is that they interchange the words "sex" "gender" "sexuality" and "orientation" apparently at random, and I think that is also unhelpful.

I, personally, use the words:

"sex" to mean a) sexual intercourse b) birth sex as defined by genitalia. (This is not always clear however.)

"Gender" to mean a construct of behaviour, appearance and self-awareness that is in most cases congruent with the physical sex of the subject, but may not be.

by "Sexuality" I mean a person's general approach to sex in terms of their motivation and practise, ie that person's response to the physical stimuli of sex

and

by "Orientation" I would mean a person's response to typical gender attractors, eg breasts, hips, hair, soft smile; or manly looks, ripped muscles, dominant attitude and so on and so forth.



It should be clear that using this terminology,"orientation" has about as many shades of grey as there are people; some hetero men are attracted to skinny, boyish looking girls and some to heavy-hipped mamas. Some men are attracted both to masculine attractors and feminine ones. There's room for everyone and none is better or worse than another. But to try to suggest that this implies a multiplicity of genders is nonsense; people just have huge variation in what they are attracted to and are often attracted to a mixed set of attractors. (As here.)

"Sexuality" looks the same but it's only similar, because it is not so much to do with attraction as physical response to the act of sex and the desire for particular types of sexual gratification. Again, there appear to be pretty much as many of these as you can count; some people like foot sex, some people like "dogging" and so on and far into the much, much more creative and unusual. None of this implies more genders

In terms of "sex" as above, there are in practical terms only two, disregarding the very small numbers of people with physical intersexed conditions that cause them to have ambivalent genitalia at birth. This is an important group but an anomalous one. There's no case for a "third sex" outside this group, IMO. (see below)

"Gender" is the one that seems to cause the most angst, and that is because it is so complicated. Having said that, I really don't think the case for considering transwomen to be a third gender is actually made at all. Transsexual women are women, that is they have a feminine gender. Transmen are men, that is, they have a masculine gender.

Clearly, transsexual women have a gender which is not in conformity with their physical birth sex; there is some correlation between this and women with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, who while usually born with a female birth sex, have an XY karotype and testes, though these are internal (there being no scrotum.) We can consider both, along with a few others, to be "intersexed," and this may indeed allow us a third sex, although I'm not really convinced. Even if we do allow this third sex, this most emphatically does not imply a third gender, since transsexual women are by definition women (gender) whose birth sex is wrong; and in the case of CAIS, these women are regarded both by themselves and society, as women.There is just no third gender here.

In some intersexed conditions, such as Klinefelter's, Mosaic, and so on, as well as a manifestation of a third sex, there may indeed be a third manifestation of gender going on, but I really suspect it's outside the general scope of this discussion, especially as the women with these condition who have come to the attention of men here, like Tula Cossey, very much identify as women and are regarded as such by all but the most Neanderthal.

So if there is a case for a "third sex" it only applies to a very, very limited set of individuals with quite specific conditions, and a "third gender" even less; neither are IMO appropriate to transsexual women.



Perhaps all this is confused by groups of individuals who are neither fully one gender nor the other; for example, transvestite men who live as men but who have a feminine persona as well. But I think if you look more deeply you will see that in fact these individuals keep the two personas separate-- they are either Frank or Frances, but not both at once. So what we are seeing is a person who is, part of the time, of one gender, and part of the time, of another. Moving between genders does not mean there is a third gender.

Some men find themselves responding to transwomen in terms of their sexuality-- in this case, their response to particular sexual stimuli-- and their orientation-- in this case their attraction to a particular set of gender attractors. So we have men who are attracted to a set of gender attractors which are, if you like, hetero-normative. They can-- and they are right-- say "I am attracted to feminine attractors" in their attraction to transwomen and this is, for them, and I would agree, a heterosexual attraction; but in terms of their sexuality, they enjoy a stimulus which is homosexual, since it involves the penetration of their bodies by a penis.

In a relationship like this, both parties are gender-bending; the girl is adopting masculine gender behaviour (being dominant and penetrating) and the man is adopting feminine gender behaviour (being submissive and being penetrated.) Neither are behaving in a way which is gender-normative for the gender they identify as.

Where the apple-cart gets upset is in two ways; first, let me quote a recent post by Alyssa87, which I hope she will not mind:


although this mindset isnt popular on shemale porn forums.. guys who place emphasis cock and balls are not desirable to the vast majority of us.

That (and many statements like it from very many sources,) suggests that in fact, in many relationships as the above, where the man is seeking to be penetrated, the woman may be doing so, if not against her will, then at least against her desire. If this involves any kind of coercion, it is plain old wrong.

Secondly, if men who enjoy being penetrated by transwomen say that their desire in terms of their orientation is heterosexual while denying that their desire in terms of sexuality involves a homosexual stimulus (both as per above) then what they are actually saying is that they see something wrong with homosexual desire; in other words they are displaying homophobia.

Both appear to me to be distinctly self-serving.





:shrug

[Alyssa87]

Wow Mac, you went all out.

[Instrumental]

What Mac's saying is perfectly logical to me.

[giovanni_hotel]

+1 Mac

[dgs925]

who the fuck has the attention span to read all that shit Mac?

[Alyssa87]

who the fuck has the attention span to read all that shit Mac?

atleast 3 of us.
check the replies above yours.

[MacShreach]

who the fuck has the attention span to read all that shit Mac?

Well, clearly not you. I'm glad you said it, saves me the trouble. :wink:

[ozma]

may be a contradiction to some...

but if i want to see men getting topped i'll watch standard gay porn

If I only want to see girls getting topped, I'll just watch standard straight porn. The fact that transsexuals can do both is what makes transsexual porn interesting. Otherwise it's the same done a zillion times straight porn that's been done to death.

I see no point in buying a transsexual DVD in which the girls only bottom.

cosign.

[yosi]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

you mis-understood me , that wasn't my meaning.
this is a transexuals/shemales forum , isn't it? 8)

[yosi]

don't worry about labels

Ah, a labelphobic. I had my suspicions.:lol: :lol: :lol:

I understand, yosi, I really do; you want dick up your arse but you don't have the spine to accept that this is a homosexual desire.

It is genuinely hilarious--I mean I laugh out loud every time--at a bunch of grown men running around squawking like chickens whenever it is pointed out that their desire-- to have cock in them-- is, as far as anybody else is concerned, a homosexual desire.

What I don't get is exactly what you guys think is so terrible about having homosexual desires that makes you deny them all the time.

I think your homophobia is showing. :wink:

if you think that what labels a shemale is her cock , you are right 8)

labelphobic :lol:

[SarahG]

---


You obviously didn't read the thread.

Do you seriously believe MtF tgirls and FtM tguys are the same gender?!

you mis-understood me , that wasn't my meaning.
this is a transexuals/shemales forum , isn't it? 8)

If you had read the post I linked to, I was very clear.

You can call MtF's a "3rd gender"

IF

You also call FtM's a "4th gender."


One of the problems we have in the community is how many people only seem to notice or care about MtF's.

There are governments that have bought into the "there maybe more than 2 genders" train of thought, and consquently have started using 3 bathrooms (one for GGs, one for GBs, and one for tgirls). The problem is, that does not leave one for FtM's. This "there are 3 genders" talk implies there are ONLY three genders, throws FtMs under the bus, and risks making the same oversight here if our country were to adopt the 3-gender system (like some people want).

[NYBURBS]

don't worry about labels

Ah, a labelphobic. I had my suspicions.:lol: :lol: :lol:

I understand, yosi, I really do; you want dick up your arse but you don't have the spine to accept that this is a homosexual desire.

It is genuinely hilarious--I mean I laugh out loud every time--at a bunch of grown men running around squawking like chickens whenever it is pointed out that their desire-- to have cock in them-- is, as far as anybody else is concerned, a homosexual desire.

What I don't get is exactly what you guys think is so terrible about having homosexual desires that makes you deny them all the time.

I think your homophobia is showing. :wink:

Oh God here you go with this nonsense again. Dude do you realize how off base that argument is? If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo? That's fucking hilarious dude; it never ceases to amaze me the length some people will go to in order to attempt to differentiate themselves. Oh but of course I forgot you only suck 100% girl penis, which is why you are straight LOLOLOLOLOL. Thanks for the laugh dude. http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090509114350684

[Helvis2012]

I can't believe the mentality of some posters, how many times do people have to come out with these stupid statements.


Why is it stupid? Because you don't agree with it?

It just happens to be someone else's point of view, which is no less valid, or more stupid, than yours.

What is amusing about these threads is not the OP but the cock-hound response, which is so predictable you could write it in advance. Sort of like the chickens running round the barnyard when a fox happens by.





Damn, you never let any opportunity get by to make a complete ass of yourself do you, McDick? :roll:

[SarahG]

I think attempts to add more genders are, while perhaps well-meant, ultimately confusing and unhelpful.

I think they're just discriminatory. Instead of assimilation it becomes "we've accommodated you, now you HAVE to use the tranny bathroom, the tranny water fountains, have an ID that says T on it"

Instead of assimilation, it's segregation/separatist. Not to mention, it would prevent stealth life because everywhere you go, your ID would out you.

The reason why I go to such lengths to mention there needs to be 4, and perhaps as many 5 genders under this so-called "3 gender" concept is because in addition to not trivializing FtMs, it shows the fallacy of the idea. I really have a hard time buying that what the world really needs, is a situation in which we have 4 or 5 bathrooms in public buildings/shops/etc. If we're going to go to such lengths as to change our public bathrooms, why not just make one big unisex one?

The added fallacy to the "3 gender" concept is that it, like the "2-gender" concept, has no idea what to do with intersexed people who do not conform to either gender. Thus at the bare minimum it becomes "GGs, GBs, Tgirls, Tguys, and other"... or perhaps that "other" category could be further split up, forcing buildings to have 6, 7, or maybe even 9 different bathrooms.


One thing I note when discussing this with some men here is that they interchange the words "sex" "gender" "sexuality" and "orientation" apparently at random, and I think that is also unhelpful.

That's because of political correctness. IDK why, but in the US, people have decided to use the term GENDER instead of SEX on everything from normal conversations, to legal forms. But they don't actually MEAN gender, which is why even on legal forms that say "gender", they need to know what your genitalia are. I say we blame the public schooling system.

[MacShreach]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

[MacShreach]

I think attempts to add more genders are, while perhaps well-meant, ultimately confusing and unhelpful.

I think they're just discriminatory. Instead of assimilation it becomes "we've accommodated you, now you HAVE to use the tranny bathroom, the tranny water fountains, have an ID that says T on it"

Instead of assimilation, it's segregation/separatist.

I hadn't thought of that, but yes I can see how it would be.



One thing I note when discussing this with some men here is that they interchange the words "sex" "gender" "sexuality" and "orientation" apparently at random, and I think that is also unhelpful.

That's because of political correctness. IDK why, but in the US, people have decided to use the term GENDER instead of SEX on everything from normal conversations, to legal forms. But they don't actually MEAN gender, which is why even on legal forms that say "gender", they need to know what your genitalia are. I say we blame the public schooling system.

Not just in the US. I think it's pretty widespread, but it makes discussing gender issues pretty difficult if people don't keep to some sort of standard terminology. Mine may be unique to me, but at least it's clear what I mean.

[dgs925]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

wow, mac, wow. Were you being sarcastic or do you actually believe that? Please, please write your answer in less than ten paragraphs because otherwise I won't read it.

Also I wonder what that post said before you edited it.

[lorddigitalhighfixer]

wow epic troll thread

if you lean towards being submissive, you enjoy getting bottomed. if you're dominant, you enjoy being the top. that's all it means. you can be a flaming leather wearing ultra dom bear queer that loves men but never bottoms.

Dan Savage of Savage Love Strangler fame doesn't like anal, and he's queerer than a $3 bill. This thread's logic just imploded, divide by zero, evac and nuke from orbit, ect.

[NYBURBS]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

Please go take a course in logic, it might help you straighten out some of your misconceptions in life lol.

PS- Cute how you deleted the question mark in what I wrote so it looks like I'm making a statement that agrees with you.

[NYBURBS]

wow epic troll thread

if you lean towards being submissive, you enjoy getting bottomed. if you're dominant, you enjoy being the top. that's all it means. you can be a flaming leather wearing ultra dom bear queer that loves men but never bottoms.

Dan Savage of Savage Love Strangler fame doesn't like anal, and he's queerer than a $3 bill. This thread's logic just imploded, divide by zero, evac and nuke from orbit, ect.

Yea dude it always goes down this road eventually. I'm glad to see you understand the flaw in his argument.

[baileyandkc]

Good spot to lock it and throw away the response key :roll:

[SarahG]

if you lean towards being submissive, you enjoy getting bottomed. if you're dominant, you enjoy being the top.


I dunno about that, I can see how that impression could be caused- but there are enough subs out there that like to top, and enough doms that like to bottom that I think it would be a hard argument to make. BDSM is more about the role playing/power dynamics than the actual act IMHO.

That's why if we take top/bottom terms and apply it to heteronormative vaginal sex (top being the act of penetrating, bottom being the act of being penetrated), there are female doms who are essentially bottoms and like having a cock in them. If what you said was true, than I would expect most female doms to only enjoy sex when using double ended dildos/strap ons to penetrate the guy.



As to the rest, there certainly are gay guys out there who loathe anal, and refuse to do it.

[MacShreach]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

Please go take a course in logic,


I refer you to my post on page 7 of this thread.

By the way, I'm sorry about my earlier mistake about you-- you are a moron.

:shrug

[MacShreach]

Please, please write your answer in less than ten paragraphs because otherwise I won't read it.



Sorry, if you are incapable of reading I can't help you. Tough.

[MacShreach]

Good spot to lock it and throw away the response key :roll:

No, no, the chickens are a-squawking and and a-fluttering really nicely now....This has got miles left in it. Page upon page. Trust me.

[dgs925]

Good spot to lock it and throw away the response key :roll:

No, no, the chickens are a-squawking and and a-fluttering really nicely now....This has got miles left in it. Page upon page. Trust me.Just gotta get that last word in dontcha?

[MacShreach]

if you lean towards being submissive, you enjoy getting bottomed. if you're dominant, you enjoy being the top.


I dunno about that, I can see how that impression could be caused- but there are enough subs out there that like to top, and enough doms that like to bottom that I think it would be a hard argument to make. BDSM is more about the role playing/power dynamics than the actual act IMHO.

That's why if we take top/bottom terms and apply it to heteronormative vaginal sex (top being the act of penetrating, bottom being the act of being penetrated), there are female doms who are essentially bottoms and like having a cock in them. If what you said was true, than I would expect most female doms to only enjoy sex when using double ended dildos/strap ons to penetrate the guy.



Nicely observed. It speaks to the point we have already discussed, that terms such as "top" and "bottom" are part of the gay lexicon. Within that context, "top" is always associated with "dominant" and vice versa; but this may not necessarily be the case. It is quite easy to see how a man might use his male power-- or for that matter his money, which comes to the same thing-- to "persuade" a transsexual woman to penetrate him, even if that is not her wish; and in this case although the man is acting as the "bottom" he is still the dominant partner.

There are plenty of cases on record of men doing exactly this.






As to the rest, there certainly are gay guys out there who loathe anal, and refuse to do it.

I believe that is true too. I think the significant number of men here who claim to be interested in sucking a transsexual woman's penis rather than being penetrated anally bears this out.

[MacShreach]

Good spot to lock it and throw away the response key :roll:

No, no, the chickens are a-squawking and and a-fluttering really nicely now....This has got miles left in it. Page upon page. Trust me.Just gotta get that last word in dontcha?

Who said that was the last word?

[SarahG]

Nicely observed. It speaks to the point we have already discussed, that terms such as "top" and "bottom" are part of the gay lexicon. Within that context, "top" is always associated with "dominant" and vice versa; but this may not necessarily be the case.

That's the part I have trouble buying, maybe I am not understanding the terms correctly but I was under the impression that in queer culture top is the one who penetrates, bottom is the one who is penetrated?


It is quite easy to see how a man might use his male power-- or for that matter his money, which comes to the same thing-- to "persuade" a transsexual woman to penetrate him, even if that is not her wish; and in this case although the man is acting as the "bottom" he is still the dominant partner.

You had me until you brought money into the equation. This would imply that all the guys who pay for female dom sessions are really dom's because they're persuading her to dominate them using money aka power.

[MacShreach]

Nicely observed. It speaks to the point we have already discussed, that terms such as "top" and "bottom" are part of the gay lexicon. Within that context, "top" is always associated with "dominant" and vice versa; but this may not necessarily be the case.

That's the part I have trouble buying, maybe I am not understanding the terms correctly but I was under the impression that in queer culture top is the one who penetrates, bottom is the one who is penetrated?

Sorry Sarah, it's getting late here-- are we disagreeing here? Or are you referring to the "not necessarily?"



It is quite easy to see how a man might use his male power-- or for that matter his money, which comes to the same thing-- to "persuade" a transsexual woman to penetrate him, even if that is not her wish; and in this case although the man is acting as the "bottom" he is still the dominant partner.

You had me until you brought money into the equation. This would imply that all the guys who pay for female dom sessions are really dom's because they're persuading her to dominate them using money aka power.

Well, I said "Might use," which would not mean "all," necessarily. But my understanding is-- talking about hetero here-- that in any case, whether or not submissive man pays, he is still the one with the power, because he has the power to say "stop."

And I certainly think in any payment situation, the one with the money is the one with the power. I think that's self-evident.

Anyway, further discussion will have to wait until the morning.

[SarahG]

Nicely observed. It speaks to the point we have already discussed, that terms such as "top" and "bottom" are part of the gay lexicon. Within that context, "top" is always associated with "dominant" and vice versa; but this may not necessarily be the case.

That's the part I have trouble buying, maybe I am not understanding the terms correctly but I was under the impression that in queer culture top is the one who penetrates, bottom is the one who is penetrated?

Sorry Sarah, it's getting late here-- are we disagreeing here? Or are you referring to the "not necessarily?"

Ok let me clarify, you said "top is always associated with "dominate" and vice versa"

That's where I am confused, I thought the term top is only used in talking about the act of penetrating, whereas the bottom is the one who is being penetrated?





It is quite easy to see how a man might use his male power-- or for that matter his money, which comes to the same thing-- to "persuade" a transsexual woman to penetrate him, even if that is not her wish; and in this case although the man is acting as the "bottom" he is still the dominant partner.

You had me until you brought money into the equation. This would imply that all the guys who pay for female dom sessions are really dom's because they're persuading her to dominate them using money aka power.

Well, I said "Might use," which would not mean "all," necessarily. But my understanding is-- talking about hetero here-- that in any case, whether or not submissive man pays, he is still the one with the power, because he has the power to say "stop."

And I certainly think in any payment situation, the one with the money is the one with the power. I think that's self-evident.

Anyway, further discussion will have to wait until the morning.

Here's what I am saying here:

A guy walks into a fem dom session, pays for her to dominate him.

He has the power two different ways, 1st in having the money to persuade her to dominate him, and 2nd by having the power to say no [so far I think we agree]

But, you're saying [I think?!] that the guy is really a dom because he has so much power in the situation. I agree he has the power, I don't agree that it makes him a dom.

Dom is all about the power dynamics within the bedroom/sexual encounter/role playing. To use theatrical terms, dom is a role in a casting, for an act/performance. It's not being used to talk about what that actress does "off stage."

The term isn't being used to talk about how much the power the guy really has, in reality. Because it's not about reality.

[NYBURBS]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

Please go take a course in logic,


I refer you to my post on page 7 of this thread.

By the way, I'm sorry about my earlier mistake about you-- you are a moron.

:shrug

Yea that must be it :roll: I'd recommend that you go hide the razor blades because one day the reality of the situation is going to hit you, and given your obvious insecurity you're likely to go off the deep end when that happens. :(

[MacShreach]

Nicely observed. It speaks to the point we have already discussed, that terms such as "top" and "bottom" are part of the gay lexicon. Within that context, "top" is always associated with "dominant" and vice versa; but this may not necessarily be the case.

That's the part I have trouble buying, maybe I am not understanding the terms correctly but I was under the impression that in queer culture top is the one who penetrates, bottom is the one who is penetrated?

Sorry Sarah, it's getting late here-- are we disagreeing here? Or are you referring to the "not necessarily?"

Ok let me clarify, you said "top is always associated with "dominate" and vice versa"



Sorry, Sarah. I meant "top is always associated with dominate and bottom with dominated."







It is quite easy to see how a man might use his male power-- or for that matter his money, which comes to the same thing-- to "persuade" a transsexual woman to penetrate him, even if that is not her wish; and in this case although the man is acting as the "bottom" he is still the dominant partner.

You had me until you brought money into the equation. This would imply that all the guys who pay for female dom sessions are really dom's because they're persuading her to dominate them using money aka power.

Well, I said "Might use," which would not mean "all," necessarily. But my understanding is-- talking about hetero here-- that in any case, whether or not submissive man pays, he is still the one with the power, because he has the power to say "stop."

And I certainly think in any payment situation, the one with the money is the one with the power. I think that's self-evident.

Anyway, further discussion will have to wait until the morning.

Here's what I am saying here:

A guy walks into a fem dom session, pays for her to dominate him.

He has the power two different ways, 1st in having the money to persuade her to dominate him, and 2nd by having the power to say no [so far I think we agree]

But, you're saying [I think?!] that the guy is really a dom because he has so much power in the situation. I agree he has the power, I don't agree that it makes him a dom.



And I would agree, because "dom" is a specific sexual role, or set of roles. The point is that someone can be dominated and still in control in that he has caused that situation to occur; which is fine except if his partner would rather a different arrangement and is doing it for money, or for that matter "to show you love me."

[


The term isn't being used to talk about how much the power the guy really has, in reality. Because it's not about reality.

I agree. I was specifically not thinking of the classic hetero BDSM dom/sub arrangement, but one in which a man uses his male power (including money) to cause a TS woman to behave in a way that she feels is outwith her gender behaviour model. And that happens all the time.

[MacShreach]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

Please go take a course in logic,


I refer you to my post on page 7 of this thread.

By the way, I'm sorry about my earlier mistake about you-- you are a moron.

:shrug

that must be it



Indeed.


:roll: I'd recommend that you go hide the razor blades because one day the reality of the situation is going to hit you, and given your obvious insecurity you're likely to go off the deep end when that happens. :(

Tell you what, you just keep holding your breath waiting for that to happen.

[NYBURBS]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo?

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

I present you all with MacShreach Logic 101:

[MacShreach]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo?

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

I present you all with MacShreach Logic 101:

Ah, correct me if I am wrong, but is that not a picture of two males?

[MacShreach]

double post

[giovanni_hotel]

LOL!!! NYBurbs!!!

IMO we're getting too caught up in the defining of labels.

Some people consider any man who's sexually/emotionally attracted to tgirls to be GAY, period.

Hetero dudes don't do it for me, neither do fem homo guys.

But a sexy trans cutie will fuck up my head and make me diamond hard every single time.

If you want to call that bi, I can accept that, if you wanna call it gay or latent homosexual, that's more an issue of how someone else would define my proclivity, but it still misses the mark.

At this point I don't really care, I'm more concerned with being comfortable in my own skin.

This top/bottom debate reminds me of how years ago hetero some guys used to be uptight about having their GGs ride on top, because being the bottom under a female was considered a submissive position. Same issue some guys used to have about eating pussy.

Nowadays no one really thinks their masculinity is threatened by a woman riding on top during sex, nor IMO should a 'straight' get all bent by the thought of penetration by a tgirl.

I've stated before that bottoming for a trans lady isn't a desire of mine, unless it's something she really wanted to do and I felt really cool with her beforehand.

I just don't see the need for additional labels based on what type of sex a hetero man and a tgirl engage in, if it's already assumed from the beginning they both have a mutual sexual attraction for each other.

What goes on between me and my lady is just that, private and exclusive to the both of us.

I agree with a lot of what Mac said, but in general, there's nothing to be gained in labeling specific sex acts as hetero, bi, or gay.

I figure, as long as there's no pain/blood involved, once you're naked and sweaty in bed with a tgirl, anything goes :)

[NYBURBS]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo?

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

I present you all with MacShreach Logic 101:

Ah, correct me if I am wrong, but is that not a picture of two males?

Oh bait me if you want, but I'm not stepping into that particular shit storm. My point is valid nevertheless. :wink:

[SarahG]

If you and another guy were to sleep with the same TS, but he gets fucked in his ass and you only fuck her, that is suppose to make him the homo?

Yup. I'm glad you finally got it. I was beginning to think you were a moron.

I present you all with MacShreach Logic 101:

Ah, correct me if I am wrong, but is that not a picture of two males?

Oh bait me if you want, but I'm not stepping into that particular shit storm. My point is valid nevertheless. :wink:

You're right, Yoda might be wearing a bra, panties, and hose under that coat.