DAMN! Woman bout to get the death sentence for smuggling....

[Silcc69]

DRUGS!!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/03/samantha-orobator-laos-smuggling-trial


And it get's better

[SarahG]

As someone who supports capital punishment: That story was all kinds of fucked up. WTF are they thinking over there!?

[GroobySteven]

As someone who supports capital punishment: That story was all kinds of fucked up. WTF are they thinking over there!?

The same as the US thinks when they kill someone of low IQ. What the fuck are they thinking there?

[gotchagood]

I'm sorry, but the law is the law. I'm sure she knew what she was doing and the risks involved and she got caught. I know people want to express pity, because it's a "girl" (We guys all know there are 2 seperate penalty systems when it comes to that),and she probably got pregnant on purpose with hopes of getting out of it. What she did was wrong and "stupid" and those drugs at some point will end up in "this" country into someones relatives (maybe someone on this board)veins or nose. Or in some childs backpack to sell at school. I have no pity for her or any dope dealer or mule. They know the risks and keep rolling the dice. So let it be, AIM!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! One less "drug trafficker".

[SarahG]

As someone who supports capital punishment: That story was all kinds of fucked up. WTF are they thinking over there!?

The same as the US thinks when they kill someone of low IQ. What the fuck are they thinking there?

And I didn't like that one either, iirc that incident in texas (I am assuming that's the case you're thinking of) was before I started posting here so you all missed out when I went on THAT rant.

[SarahG]

I'm sorry, but the law is the law. I'm sure she knew what she was doing and the risks involved and she got caught. I know people want to express pity, because it's a "girl" (We guys all know there are 2 seperate penalty systems when it comes to that),and she probably got pregnant on purpose with hopes of getting out of it. What she did was wrong and "stupid" and those drugs at some point will end up in "this" country into someones relatives (maybe someone on this board)veins or nose. Or in some childs backpack to sell at school. I have no pity for her or any dope dealer or mule. They know the risks and keep rolling the dice. So let it be, AIM!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! One less "drug trafficker".

Uhhh, if you had read the article the outrage isn't just because she's "a girl facing the death penalty," girls are executed regularly without this kind of outrage (just look at China's execution buses).

There are a few problems, actually more than a few, with this scenario even IF we assume she is guilty of the crime.

1- Laos is intentionally trying to prevent her from having access to a lawyer, rushing the court date thinking it will prevent her from getting representation.
2- If you look at when she was arrested, and how far along she is pregnancy wise, its clear she was raped in detainment
3- Laos is refusing to abide by international law by waiting to the very last minute to contact the British diplomats regarding her detainment

I could go on.

[arnie666]

Heres a novel thought , maybe realise what the penalty is, in these countries for drug smuggling before going there and trying your luck. And the nigerians are so renowned for their 'culture' and 'community spirit' in the UK :D

And now the handwringing brigade want the UK to interfere in another countries justice system for this British 'citizen'. To be honest I hate drugs and I personally wouldn't give a shit if they killed her but it is a right pity she is apparently pregnant so ideally they could allow her to have the child before excecuting her. And I would make strong protests if I had any say for that to happen.

But I shouldn't worry ,the one eyed jock cunt will do a deal, she will do a couple of years in one of their prisons and then this fine example of humanity will be moved quietly back to Britian to do a few more years.Then she will no doubt sell her story to max clifford and be rich.

I mean she is a pretty Black girl.There is a real shortage of Black escorts in Britain , she could have sold her arse over here and made tons of cash. How fucking stupid. I mean did you here me moan when me and my mates got a beating off the Italian police for wrecking a town after a football match. When we knew full well their reputations. Where were any of you giving men sympathy when one of them broke my head with a baton?

[arnie666]

I'm sorry, but the law is the law. I'm sure she knew what she was doing and the risks involved and she got caught. I know people want to express pity, because it's a "girl" (We guys all know there are 2 seperate penalty systems when it comes to that),and she probably got pregnant on purpose with hopes of getting out of it. What she did was wrong and "stupid" and those drugs at some point will end up in "this" country into someones relatives (maybe someone on this board)veins or nose. Or in some childs backpack to sell at school. I have no pity for her or any dope dealer or mule. They know the risks and keep rolling the dice. So let it be, AIM!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! One less "drug trafficker".

Uhhh, if you had read the article the outrage isn't just because she's "a girl facing the death penalty," girls are executed regularly without this kind of outrage (just look at China's execution buses).

There are a few problems, actually more than a few, with this scenario even IF we assume she is guilty of the crime.

1- Laos is intentionally trying to prevent her from having access to a lawyer, rushing the court date thinking it will prevent her from getting representation.
2- If you look at when she was arrested, and how far along she is pregnancy wise, its clear she was raped in detainment
3- Laos is refusing to abide by international law by waiting to the very last minute to contact the British diplomats regarding her detainment

I could go on.

I agree with you on point 3 and they should get a jolly good telling off. But on point 2 , why are you coming to the conclusion she was raped ?. How do you know she didn't come to an 'arrangement' with a guard thinking less chance of being topped if she was with child? You are making a serious jump in what if's there luv.

[SarahG]

Heres a novel thought , maybe realise what the penalty is, in these countries for drug smuggling before going there and trying your luck. And the nigerians are so renowned for their 'culture' and 'community spirit' in the UK :D

And now the handwringing brigade want the UK to interfere in another countries justice system for this British 'citizen'. To be honest I hate drugs and I personally wouldn't give a shit if they killed her but it is a right pity she is apparently pregnant so ideally they could allow her to have the child before excecuting her. And I would make strong protests if I had any say for that to happen.

But I shouldn't worry ,the one eyed jock cunt will do a deal, she will do a couple of years in one of their prisons and then this fine example of humanity will be moved quietly back to Britian to do a few more years.Then she will no doubt sell her story to max clifford and be rich.

I mean she is a pretty Black girl.There is a real shortage of Black escorts in Britain , she could have sold her arse over here and made tons of cash. How fucking stupid. I mean did you here me moan when me and my mates got a beating off the Italian police for wrecking a town after a football match. When we knew full well their reputations. Where were any of you giving men sympathy when one of them broke my head with a baton?

They might not be legally able to "do a deal" if their country has strict enough drug laws. This isn't law & order.

I find the notion that they will do a deal unlikely given the lengths they've gone to keep her from getting just treatment.

[Jericho]

[quote=gotchagood]

There are a few problems, actually more than a few, with this scenario even IF we assume she is guilty of the crime.

1- Laos is intentionally trying to prevent her from having access to a lawyer, rushing the court date thinking it will prevent her from getting representation.
2- If you look at when she was arrested, and how far along she is pregnancy wise, its clear she was raped in detainment
3- Laos is refusing to abide by international law by waiting to the very last minute to contact the British diplomats regarding her detainment

I could go on.

Big assumption at 2
It's clear she had sex.
Rape?, maybe, or with a death sentence on the cards, an updated version of 'pleading her belly".

[SarahG]

I'm sorry, but the law is the law. I'm sure she knew what she was doing and the risks involved and she got caught. I know people want to express pity, because it's a "girl" (We guys all know there are 2 seperate penalty systems when it comes to that),and she probably got pregnant on purpose with hopes of getting out of it. What she did was wrong and "stupid" and those drugs at some point will end up in "this" country into someones relatives (maybe someone on this board)veins or nose. Or in some childs backpack to sell at school. I have no pity for her or any dope dealer or mule. They know the risks and keep rolling the dice. So let it be, AIM!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! One less "drug trafficker".

Uhhh, if you had read the article the outrage isn't just because she's "a girl facing the death penalty," girls are executed regularly without this kind of outrage (just look at China's execution buses).

There are a few problems, actually more than a few, with this scenario even IF we assume she is guilty of the crime.

1- Laos is intentionally trying to prevent her from having access to a lawyer, rushing the court date thinking it will prevent her from getting representation.
2- If you look at when she was arrested, and how far along she is pregnancy wise, its clear she was raped in detainment
3- Laos is refusing to abide by international law by waiting to the very last minute to contact the British diplomats regarding her detainment

I could go on.

I agree with you on point 3 and they should get a jolly good telling off. But on point 2 , why are you coming to the conclusion she was raped ?. How do you know she didn't come to an 'arrangement' with a guard thinking less chance of being topped if she was with child? You are making a serious jump in what if's there luv.

As to #2, consensual sex is impossible in situations in which there is such an asymmetrical distribution of power/authority. That's ONE of the reasons why sex with minors is so illegal.

Sex between slaves/masters is viewed as rape, even when both parties seemed to consent to the act- because the of the dynamics of that power arrangement, there's that "what will happen if the slave says no to the advances?" issue that comes into play. That's also why having sex with inmates is such a HUGE no no in our prison system (at least, when talking about heterosexual sexual contact).

Or to use another example, a cop pulls a girl over for speeding and says "i'll let you off if we go have sex in the back of my car"- what will the cop do to her if she says no?

This is why institutions fire teachers for having sex with students, its why its sexual harassment when bosses have sex with their subordinates, etc.

Not to mention, this particular prison is internationally known for the bad, unethical stuff that goes down there. A guard raping a female inmate is HARDLY something that would be untypical in a prison on several civil rights groups' shitlists for mutilating the genitalia of its prisoners. This is the same prison where they literally burn peoples' genitalia off whenever the guards feel like it. How anyone could defend an institution that pulls stuff like that isn't just mind numbing, it's gross and disturbing.

[arnie666]

I'm sorry, but the law is the law. I'm sure she knew what she was doing and the risks involved and she got caught. I know people want to express pity, because it's a "girl" (We guys all know there are 2 seperate penalty systems when it comes to that),and she probably got pregnant on purpose with hopes of getting out of it. What she did was wrong and "stupid" and those drugs at some point will end up in "this" country into someones relatives (maybe someone on this board)veins or nose. Or in some childs backpack to sell at school. I have no pity for her or any dope dealer or mule. They know the risks and keep rolling the dice. So let it be, AIM!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! One less "drug trafficker".

Uhhh, if you had read the article the outrage isn't just because she's "a girl facing the death penalty," girls are executed regularly without this kind of outrage (just look at China's execution buses).

There are a few problems, actually more than a few, with this scenario even IF we assume she is guilty of the crime.

1- Laos is intentionally trying to prevent her from having access to a lawyer, rushing the court date thinking it will prevent her from getting representation.
2- If you look at when she was arrested, and how far along she is pregnancy wise, its clear she was raped in detainment
3- Laos is refusing to abide by international law by waiting to the very last minute to contact the British diplomats regarding her detainment

I could go on.

I agree with you on point 3 and they should get a jolly good telling off. But on point 2 , why are you coming to the conclusion she was raped ?. How do you know she didn't come to an 'arrangement' with a guard thinking less chance of being topped if she was with child? You are making a serious jump in what if's there luv.

As to #2, consensual sex is impossible in situations in which there is such an asymmetrical distribution of power/authority. That's ONE of the reasons why sex with minors is so illegal.

Sex between slaves/masters is viewed as rape, even when both parties seemed to consent to the act- because the of the dynamics of that power arrangement, there's that "what will happen if the slave says no to the advances?" issue that comes into play. That's also why having sex with inmates is such a HUGE no no in our prison system (at least, when talking about heterosexual sexual contact).

Or to use another example, a cop pulls a girl over for speeding and says "i'll let you off if we go have sex in the back of my car"- what will the cop do to her if she says no?

This is why institutions fire teachers for having sex with students, its why its sexual harassment when bosses have sex with their subordinates, etc.

Not to mention, this particular prison is internationally known for the bad, unethical stuff that goes down there. A guard raping a female inmate is HARDLY something that would be untypical in a prison on several civil rights groups' shitlists for mutilating the genitalia of its prisoners. This is the same prison where they literally burn peoples' genitalia off whenever the guards feel like it. How anyone could defend an institution that pulls stuff like that isn't just mind numbing, it's gross and disturbing.

You are still jumping to conclusions and I will now.Put yourself in her shoes, you know they are going to excecute you, at that point your own government didn't know about it. Why wouldn''t you as a woman in desperation get yourself knocked up thinking it might avoid the death penalty or perhaps delay it until your goverment found out?

You don't have any real evidence why she is pregnant. But even if the above happened I agree it isn't consent as she is under duress but it is hardly rape.

[SarahG]

Also, Laos has ratified the 4th Geneva Convention, so they're required not to partake in what's defined as grave offenses, are required to punish those in authority who committee grave offenses, and required to take action to try to make it right when their governmental officials do partake in grave offenses.

Rape is a grave offense.

[SarahG]

You are still jumping to conclusions and I will now.Put yourself in her shoes, you know they are going to excecute you, at that point your own government didn't know about it. Why wouldn''t you as a woman in desperation get yourself knocked up thinking it might avoid the death penalty or perhaps delay it until your goverment found out?

You don't have any real evidence why she is pregnant. But even if the above happened I agree it isn't consent as she is under duress but it is hardly rape.

It doesn't matter what she thought or what she was trying to do.

Even if she BEGGED the guards to fuck her, it is rape simply because she is an inmate.

Edit: also, if she was "under duress" (of which you and I apparently agree there) then that only further fuels my argument that it was rape. Rape does not require using massive amounts of forceful brutality.

"isn't consent" = rape. Sex without consent, in all circumstances, is rape.

[arnie666]

Heres a novel thought , maybe realise what the penalty is, in these countries for drug smuggling before going there and trying your luck. And the nigerians are so renowned for their 'culture' and 'community spirit' in the UK :D

And now the handwringing brigade want the UK to interfere in another countries justice system for this British 'citizen'. To be honest I hate drugs and I personally wouldn't give a shit if they killed her but it is a right pity she is apparently pregnant so ideally they could allow her to have the child before excecuting her. And I would make strong protests if I had any say for that to happen.

But I shouldn't worry ,the one eyed jock cunt will do a deal, she will do a couple of years in one of their prisons and then this fine example of humanity will be moved quietly back to Britian to do a few more years.Then she will no doubt sell her story to max clifford and be rich.

I mean she is a pretty Black girl.There is a real shortage of Black escorts in Britain , she could have sold her arse over here and made tons of cash. How fucking stupid. I mean did you here me moan when me and my mates got a beating off the Italian police for wrecking a town after a football match. When we knew full well their reputations. Where were any of you giving men sympathy when one of them broke my head with a baton?

They might not be legally able to "do a deal" if their country has strict enough drug laws. This isn't law & order.

I find the notion that they will do a deal unlikely given the lengths they've gone to keep her from getting just treatment.

They have in similar cases, look at that young american who was meant to get flogged in singapore or somewhere and in the end he got half the strokes he was meant to get after your government interevened.

In Thailand westerners have been sentenced to death or natural life for drugs offences and they in the end after many appeals and representations got lesser sentences.


You obviously have no idea what goes on behind the scenes in diplomatic circles and I put money on her sentence being commuted to 'life' and after say five years or so when it has quietened down she will be shipped back to the UK. It would look terrible in Britain if a pregnant Brit got excecuted in another country and believe me we will be putting all kinds of pressure on them. privately. Bullying essentially.

[SarahG]

Heres a novel thought , maybe realise what the penalty is, in these countries for drug smuggling before going there and trying your luck. And the nigerians are so renowned for their 'culture' and 'community spirit' in the UK :D

And now the handwringing brigade want the UK to interfere in another countries justice system for this British 'citizen'. To be honest I hate drugs and I personally wouldn't give a shit if they killed her but it is a right pity she is apparently pregnant so ideally they could allow her to have the child before excecuting her. And I would make strong protests if I had any say for that to happen.

But I shouldn't worry ,the one eyed jock cunt will do a deal, she will do a couple of years in one of their prisons and then this fine example of humanity will be moved quietly back to Britian to do a few more years.Then she will no doubt sell her story to max clifford and be rich.

I mean she is a pretty Black girl.There is a real shortage of Black escorts in Britain , she could have sold her arse over here and made tons of cash. How fucking stupid. I mean did you here me moan when me and my mates got a beating off the Italian police for wrecking a town after a football match. When we knew full well their reputations. Where were any of you giving men sympathy when one of them broke my head with a baton?

They might not be legally able to "do a deal" if their country has strict enough drug laws. This isn't law & order.

I find the notion that they will do a deal unlikely given the lengths they've gone to keep her from getting just treatment.

They have in similar cases, look at that young american who was meant to get flogged in singapore or somewhere and in the end he got half the strokes he was meant to get after your government interevened.

In Thailand westerners have been sentenced to death or natural life for drugs offences and they in the end after many appeals and representations got lesser sentences.


You obviously have no idea what goes on behind the scenes in diplomatic circles and I put money on her sentence being commuted to 'life' and after say five years or so when it has quietened down she will be shipped back to the UK. It would look terrible in Britain if a pregnant Brit got excecuted in another country and believe me we will be putting all kinds of pressure on them. privately. Bullying essentially.

Suppose you're correct and she gets sent back after a few years.

That won't change the appalling way Laos has handled this situation. Simply because Britain might be able to get her sent home after a while, doesn't change what I'm talking about.

Because at the end of the day, even if she was 100% guilty:
1- They've been going out of their way to prevent her access to legal representation
2- She had "sex without consent" while detained (I would call that rape)
3- Laos violated international law by trying to put off contacting the British diplomats.

[hippifried]

I can't help but think that this wouldn't even be a story if she wasn't a Brit, or maybe an American. Would anybody even care if she was a frog? Hate to tell y'all, but Laos only has drug laws at our insistence. They get paid to crack down on drug smuggling. Laos is the point of origin. The market for drugs coming out of the golden triangle is the west. Laos could give a shit if not for the foreign aid they get. Oops!

[SarahG]

I can't help but think that this wouldn't even be a story if she wasn't a Brit, or maybe an American.


You're entirely right, just as no one will say anything or do anything about the prison abuses that go on at laos. When it's just the locals having their genitals burned off, who cares? But when they consider executing a preg english girl? Now that's something to outcry over/sarc.


They get paid to crack down on drug smuggling. Laos is the point of origin. The market for drugs coming out of the golden triangle is the west. Laos could give a shit if not for the foreign aid they get. Oops!

Yet another example where that crap just doesn't work. Not that anyone will learn anything from it.

[NYBURBS]

Two quick points:

1) I don't personally favor the death penalty. Governments and the general public tend to be rash; they sometimes (perhaps often) look to blame someone for something even if the proof is less than convincing. Take for instance the comments here where people are talking about what scum she is when she has only been arrested rather than convicted (even in their kangaroo court). Though with that said one should keep in mind the destination countries they plan on traveling to, and think twice before taking a trip to certain nations.

2) In the United States it is rape if you have sex where someone is considered unable to give consent (duress, mental incapacitation, drunk, guard/prisoner, etc). However, those are all by statute and is not necessarily the law there. So yes we might regard it as rape if it took place here, but that doesn't mean they do.

[russtafa]

big signs all over asian airports warning of the death sentence for drugs=yay

[droog]

i feel remorse for this woman and i hope her government helps her get back back to britain safely. it freaks me out to think, as i type this, that she is sitting in some awful place where she doesn't understand the language and doesn't know what's going to happen next. but it's not like she killed someone. why don't they just let her go.

what is executing her going to accomplish... it's not like it's going to scare anyone into not concealing or smuggling drugs. it's still going to go on today, tomorrow, a year from now... it's like the united states' "war on drugs." a "war" that can never be won. i mean, i just bought a fat bag of weed off my friend and drove it back to my apartment. would i deserve to be executed if i got stopped by a cop and he found it on me?

i realize other people have different ideas, and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts. but these are mine.

[Jericho]

i feel remorse for this woman and i hope her government helps her get back back to britain safely. it freaks me out to think, as i type this, that she is sitting in some awful place where she doesn't understand the language and doesn't know what's going to happen next. but it's not like she killed someone. why don't they just let her go.

See...This is what smoking dope does for you.
Kids...Just say NO! :roll:

[hippifried]

There's something wrong with this picture.

The Brit government is claiming that they just found out about this, yet there seems to be a lot of information about the case. Somebody knew something.

Her mother was told in September? By whom? Oh that's right. She couldn't believe it was her little darling, who would never ever do something like that. So how long was Mommy dearest going to hang out & not tell anybody, when she hadn't heard from her daughter in how many months?

The pregnancy:
I know the timeline from the story says she got pregnant while in prison. One would think that should have been pointed out by the reporter, if anybody was paying attention. There's a lot of inferrences being made about rape by the guards & whatnot, but how much does anyone really know about the Laotian prison system? For instance; Do we know if inmates are sexually segregated? Do we really know the timeline?

Nobody goes to Laos on vacation. What's there to do? Hang out on the beach? Go look for bones in the rice paddies? There's not going to be an "innocence" defence. We shouldn't assume that the Laotian government is collectively stupid enough to railroad a British citizen into a death sentence on a trumped up charge. What possible gain could they get? That's enough dope to make for a nice nestegg. Probably hasn't been stepped on at all. She's in trouble big time. I imagine they'll wait for the baby to be born. Wonder who get's custody.

[droog]

i feel remorse for this woman and i hope her government helps her get back back to britain safely. it freaks me out to think, as i type this, that she is sitting in some awful place where she doesn't understand the language and doesn't know what's going to happen next. but it's not like she killed someone. why don't they just let her go.

See...This is what smoking dope does for you.
Kids...Just say NO! :roll:

sorry to derail the thread, but jericho, while your view is respected, i take it you have never gotten high... which is fine, it's not for everyone. this is not aimed at you, but to everyone who thinks smoking is bad. the motto "kids...just say no" is something that is drilled into kids' minds at an early age in grade school. they tell us smoking weed is bad, but don't say why, they just say it's bad and not to do it. they never state the benefits of it or bother to tell us that it does not impair you in any way (walking, driving, talking, etc.).

and there is a huge difference between someone smoking pot and doing nothing because they are most likely depressed or trying to escape their life... and someone smoking pot and taking advantage of a different state of mind. this can also apply of course to any mind-altering drug.

from a creativity standpoint, it acts as a key, opening up doors to your brain, which, when opened, allow you to think and be creative at levels far higher than which, when sober, would not normally be accessible (it's a known fact that humans do not use the full 100% of of our brains' capabilities). i have written some of my best short stories and created some of my best artwork while high. an interesting quote, with the song link:

"see, i think drugs have done some good things for us, i really do. and if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor: go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cd's and burn them. cause you know what? the musicians who've made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years... rrrrrrrrrrrrrreal fuckin high on drugs."

- bill hicks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIQpdbwE8Q)

[arnie666]

Some things to think about guys. 1 while laos has the death penalty as an option for such offenses ,no one has been done by firing squad foir twenty odd years for drug smuggling .It doesn't mean just because the judges can reward that punishment she would get that rather than a prison sentence. 2 You go to any of these countries laos, thailand etc etc it quite clearly states at the airports what the penalties are for drug smuggling. 3 It's very rare for Loatians to arrest foreigners for such a crime, they value the tourist industry

The latest, via the Sikh news channel on Sky, is thet the Lao authorities have aid that she will not be subject to the death penalty becasue she is pregnant. Someone gave her some good advice. A bit of DNA testing among the guards? But a sprog will help her get started back un the UK with lots of welfare benefits. Not as stupid as she makes out?

[2009AD]

She won't face death...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Laos-Briton-Samantha-Orobator-Will-Not-Face-Death-Penalty-Because-She-Is-Pregnant/Article/200905115275115?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15275115_Laos%3A_Briton_Samantha_Oroba tor_Will_Not_Face_Death_Penalty_Because_She_Is_Pre gnant

[Jericho]

i feel remorse for this woman and i hope her government helps her get back back to britain safely. it freaks me out to think, as i type this, that she is sitting in some awful place where she doesn't understand the language and doesn't know what's going to happen next. but it's not like she killed someone. why don't they just let her go.

See...This is what smoking dope does for you.
Kids...Just say NO! :roll:

sorry to derail the thread, but

Whoosh!

[SarahG]

Her mother was told in September? By whom? Oh that's right. She couldn't believe it was her little darling, who would never ever do something like that. So how long was Mommy dearest going to hang out & not tell anybody, when she hadn't heard from her daughter in how many months?


Even if the mom found out in september by someone in Laos, their government is still required to formally contact British diplomats through formal diplomatic channels. That responsibility doesn't just disappear because the situation was partially leaked to the inmates' civilian mom.

[SarahG]

Some things to think about guys. 1 while laos has the death penalty as an option for such offenses ,no one has been done by firing squad foir twenty odd years for drug smuggling

Is the first article inaccurate where it sates that for this amount of contraband, there is a MANDATORY death sentence for convictions?


2 You go to any of these countries laos, thailand etc etc it quite clearly states at the airports what the penalties are for drug smuggling.

That's not the point, a country could outlaw having black hair, and post notices saying that people found with black hair will be executed by firing squad, that public notice doesn't make the practice right.

If the 1st article can be trusted, Laos goes out of its way to deny the accused access to representation, even for capital offense. That's a problem IMHO.

[bte]

Damn that's a bad place to have drugs.

[hippifried]

Even if the mom found out in september by someone in Laos, their government is still required to formally contact British diplomats through formal diplomatic channels. That responsibility doesn't just disappear because the situation was partially leaked to the inmates' civilian mom.What formal channels? The Brits have no diplomatic relations with Laos, & there's probably lots of reasons on both sides. The Lao government did contact them, & that's why we have this story. It's not a requirement. It's a formal courtesy. If contact's required, it's not diplomacy. What are the Brits going to do about it anyway? What?!? Who in here think the Magna Carta or US Bill of Rights are universally accepted around the world? Apparently, legal advice isn't a big priority over there at all, for anyone.

If Mom had any information about where her daughter is, one would think she would have tried to get more. It's not like they've been chatting on the phone or writing letters & emails since the outset of incarceration. I can't help but wonder why she was loathe to contact the authorities & relay what she was told. I don't want to make assumptions or wild accusations, but something about this story just isn't right.

This isn't about using drugs of any kind. She was caught with about a pound & a half of heroin. & not the crap that's available on western streets. All heroin is stepped on many times before it reaches the streets. But not at the initial source, because that would add to the bulk & subsequently the risk. We're talking a profit of several $million before it even gets down past the high wholesale level. She'd be pulling down $thousands, even if she was just a hired mule. With all this handwringing about how she's just a victim of those horrible Lao, I'll lay odds that it never gets investigated to find out who was behind it all.

[FREEFALLL666]

Execution in your country?
Hi Barbarians.

[hippifried]

Brits populated the Australian wilderness with folks who went there to escape the gallows for heinous crimes like petty theft from their betters. I don't think the Brits have room to get self righteous about anything.

[russtafa]

most aussies and brits are far to soft on crime and couldnt give a toss about the victims.its bleeding heart syndrome and no back bone and they expect other countrys to applaud them

[SarahG]

Even if the mom found out in september by someone in Laos, their government is still required to formally contact British diplomats through formal diplomatic channels. That responsibility doesn't just disappear because the situation was partially leaked to the inmates' civilian mom.What formal channels? The Brits have no diplomatic relations with Laos, & there's probably lots of reasons on both sides. The Lao government did contact them, & that's why we have this story. It's not a requirement.

Unless the article is inaccurate, it states that Laos had been a party of international agreements on consular relations that would have required the notification of Britain.


This isn't about using drugs of any kind.

I never said anything about using drugs. There's a reason why I've always been saying "assuming she was guilty" in this thread and not "assuming she is innocent." I think it's unlikely she's innocent, but that's not the point. Even if guilty, this story shows a few things that I think are pretty fucked up on their own, i.e. trying to limit access to representation on death penalty cases. That's a big problem IMHO. you can tell a lot about a country, even ours- by how it handles those accused of crimes.

[FREEFALLL666]

Brits populated the Australian wilderness with folks who went there to escape the gallows for heinous crimes like petty theft from their betters. I don't think the Brits have room to get self righteous about anything.Yea thats right, now one of the worlds most civilized and genuinely nice nations came out of the Brits? Bullshit, most of Aus is descended from Dutch ex-pats.

You see when you change from Barbarians to Civilization you DO have a right to talk and to criticize, you EARNED the right. Say you are civilized all you want it is still gold plating a turd.

[FREEFALLL666]

most aussies and brits are far to soft on crime and couldnt give a toss about the victims.its bleeding heart syndrome and no back bone and they expect other country's to applaud them
We may be soft on crime but execution turns EVERY CITIZEN into a murderer, every kid in the US who buys sweets pays a small dose of tax which pays for the vile executions.
I would rather live in a society of Justice rather than Revenge, sorry but if you support Execution you are barbarian.

[russtafa]

id rather have revenge than getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist

[russtafa]

we are a joke to the rest of the world .inocent people are scared of the thughs on the street what a way to run the country

[tao1kiku]

If you don't like the laws of another country, don't go, especially if you're doing something that is against their laws.

[SarahG]

If you don't like the laws of another country, don't go, especially if you're doing something that is against their laws.

That's nice when people know they're doing something illegal, or going a place where their system is known for having problems.

Remember that British citizen that got busted at a UAE airport for having a microscopic piece of pot stuck to the bottom of his shoe? It was so small it couldn't be seen with the naked eye, but they threw him in jail for it. He could have simply stepped on it in boarding his plane, and never knew it. Does anyone know what crap is stuck to the bottom of their shoes?

[FREEFALLL666]

If you don't like the laws of another country, don't go, especially if you're doing something that is against their laws.It doesn't matter her crime. What matters is that attitude you just showed. EVERY HUMAN should look out and protect EVERY HUMAN. Even those most vile, I dont even agree with the execution of Sadam Hussein.

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

[Jericho]

EVERY HUMAN should look out and protect EVERY HUMAN. Even those most vile, I dont even agree with the execution of Sadam Hussein.

Bleeding heart liberalism.
...Some people deserve a bullet in the back of the head!



Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

In this day and age, i would imagine most of us...Your point?

[hippifried]

Brits populated the Australian wilderness with folks who went there to escape the gallows for heinous crimes like petty theft from their betters. I don't think the Brits have room to get self righteous about anything.Yea thats right, now one of the worlds most civilized and genuinely nice nations came out of the Brits? Bullshit, most of Aus is descended from Dutch ex-pats.

You see when you change from Barbarians to Civilization you DO have a right to talk and to criticize, you EARNED the right. Say you are civilized all you want it is still gold plating a turd.Civilized? According to whom? The Brits are still barbarians. They're just haughty & condescending about it. I'm not impressed.

[Jericho]

Brits populated the Australian wilderness with folks who went there to escape the gallows for heinous crimes like petty theft from their betters. I don't think the Brits have room to get self righteous about anything.Yea thats right, now one of the worlds most civilized and genuinely nice nations came out of the Brits? Bullshit, most of Aus is descended from Dutch ex-pats.

You see when you change from Barbarians to Civilization you DO have a right to talk and to criticize, you EARNED the right. Say you are civilized all you want it is still gold plating a turd.Civilized? According to whom? The Brits are still barbarians. They're just haughty & condescending about it. I'm not impressed.

There, there...Feeling better?
Run along now, there's a good chap!

[SarahG]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...

[Faldur]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Yes, I saw Daniel Pearl beheaded by some animals, and then there was Peter Stanczak. So yes I have seen executions, by monsters who gave there victims no trial, no opportunity to prove innocence or guilt. These monsters deserve justice, quick, fair and if proven to be guilty.. death.

[SarahG]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Yes, I saw Daniel Pearl beheaded by some animals, and then there was Peter Stanczak. So yes I have seen executions, by monsters who gave there victims no trial, no opportunity to prove innocence or guilt. These monsters deserve justice, quick, fair and if proven to be guilty.. death.

But not just that, it has to be in response to appropriate crimes.

It would be a mistake to execute people for j-walking, speeding, or playing music too loud within city limits, etc.

[FREEFALLL666]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...Then why is it that the states in the US that have Execution are also the states with the fastest rising Murder levels? Obviously effective..

[SarahG]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...Then why is it that the states in the US that have Execution are also the states with the fastest rising Murder levels? Obviously effective..

Who said execution is a deterrence? I don't see that anyone has made that argument

As to murder levels, Texas does the most executions by far, but their murder rate is not abnormally high by any stretch of the imagination. It's not the lowest in the country, but to imply its the highest isn't accurate by a long shot.

I don't see how someone could claim that there is a cause-effect relationship between capital punishment & murder rates... regionally there are trends when it comes to both executions and murder rates, generally the south has larger instances of both- but there are other cultural differences that might account for that. Depending on your spin murder rates could be falsely attributed to gun ownership, political views, religious views, drug use, ethnicities, races- etc. But usually those assertions just don't pan out.

[FREEFALLL666]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...Then why is it that the states in the US that have Execution are also the states with the fastest rising Murder levels? Obviously effective..

Who said execution is a deterrence? I don't see that anyone has made that argument

As to murder levels, Texas does the most executions by far, but their murder rate is not abnormally high by any stretch of the imagination. It's not the lowest in the country, but to imply its the highest isn't accurate by a long shot.

I don't see how someone could claim that there is a cause-effect relationship between capital punishment & murder rates... regionally there are trends when it comes to both executions and murder rates, generally the south has larger instances of both- but there are other cultural differences that might account for that. Depending on your spin murder rates could be falsely attributed to gun ownership, political views, religious views, drug use, ethnicities, races- etc. But usually those assertions just don't pan out.True JUSTICE IS A DETERRANT, otherwise what makes you better than the Nazis?

[SarahG]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...Then why is it that the states in the US that have Execution are also the states with the fastest rising Murder levels? Obviously effective..

Who said execution is a deterrence? I don't see that anyone has made that argument

As to murder levels, Texas does the most executions by far, but their murder rate is not abnormally high by any stretch of the imagination. It's not the lowest in the country, but to imply its the highest isn't accurate by a long shot.

I don't see how someone could claim that there is a cause-effect relationship between capital punishment & murder rates... regionally there are trends when it comes to both executions and murder rates, generally the south has larger instances of both- but there are other cultural differences that might account for that. Depending on your spin murder rates could be falsely attributed to gun ownership, political views, religious views, drug use, ethnicities, races- etc. But usually those assertions just don't pan out.True JUSTICE IS A DETERRANT, otherwise what makes you better than the Nazis?

I would agree.

But we don't have a system setup for justice in the United States, we have a system setup to establish law & order. There's a difference.

What is the difference you may ask? When someone is convicted of a crime, and then goes to appeal- the system only cares about whether or not there was a procedural error (aka technicality) during the first trial... the focus is not to ascertain proof of innocence. In the eyes of the system, executing an innocent man is perfectly acceptable, provided they received a fair trial and did not have their rights violated in the process.

Perhaps this is what Hobbes meant when he said the purpose of punishment is not revenge, BUT TERROR.

As to the Nazis, Hitler's justification for the holocaust, on a policymaking level- was "who remembers the Armenians?" Genocide has a very long history, lending credibility to Hobbes's commentary about mankind being naturally evil & in need of supervision (aka laws & order). Even the use of concentration camps were not developed by the nazis- but humanity had been turning a blind eye to both practices for so long, that it enabled Hitler to think his party could get away with it... and it enabled him to argue it was justifiable. That neither ended up being the case after the war just goes to show how much of an exception it was to the rule, and not the rule itself. This is further shown with the amount of factions that have effectively gotten away with war crimes since 45.

We need a system of justice more than we need the use or ban of the death penalty, but I don't anticipate it happening anytime soon. Not in the United States, and certainly not in Laos.

[FREEFALLL666]

Question, of those who agree with execution. How many of you have actually watched a video of one?

Several times, not in person if that's what you're asking.

As an argument, that doesn't really hold much muster. Lots of people try to argue that when things that look bad, they are therefore bad in return... peta tries this to talk people out of eating meat, South Park has done that to argue breast implants & SRS are bad, etc.

If anything, using executions as a spectacle is counter productive. We had public executions before, what happened then? They were turned into sporting events and whole cities would stop what they were doing to watch someone be killed in the public square. Instead of grossing people out & convincing them that execution was wrong, public executions made people more execution-happy than they otherwise would have been. The French certainly found this with their reign of terror...Then why is it that the states in the US that have Execution are also the states with the fastest rising Murder levels? Obviously effective..

Who said execution is a deterrence? I don't see that anyone has made that argument

As to murder levels, Texas does the most executions by far, but their murder rate is not abnormally high by any stretch of the imagination. It's not the lowest in the country, but to imply its the highest isn't accurate by a long shot.

I don't see how someone could claim that there is a cause-effect relationship between capital punishment & murder rates... regionally there are trends when it comes to both executions and murder rates, generally the south has larger instances of both- but there are other cultural differences that might account for that. Depending on your spin murder rates could be falsely attributed to gun ownership, political views, religious views, drug use, ethnicities, races- etc. But usually those assertions just don't pan out.True JUSTICE IS A DETERRANT, otherwise what makes you better than the Nazis?

I would agree.

But we don't have a system setup for justice in the United States, we have a system setup to establish law & order. There's a difference.

What is the difference you may ask? When someone is convicted of a crime, and then goes to appeal- the system only cares about whether or not there was a procedural error (aka technicality) during the first trial... the focus is not to ascertain proof of innocence. In the eyes of the system, executing an innocent man is perfectly acceptable, provided they received a fair trial and did not have their rights violated in the process.

Perhaps this is what Hobbes meant when he said the purpose of punishment is not revenge, BUT TERROR.

As to the Nazis, Hitler's justification for the holocaust, on a policymaking level- was "who remembers the Armenians?" Genocide has a very long history, lending credibility to Hobbes's commentary about mankind being naturally evil & in need of supervision (aka laws & order). Even the use of concentration camps were not developed by the nazis- but humanity had been turning a blind eye to both practices for so long, that it enabled Hitler to think his party could get away with it... and it enabled him to argue it was justifiable. That neither ended up being the case after the war just goes to show how much of an exception it was to the rule, and not the rule itself. This is further shown with the amount of factions that have effectively gotten away with war crimes since 45.

We need a system of justice more than we need the use or ban of the death penalty, but I don't anticipate it happening anytime soon. Not in the United States, and certainly not in Laos.You have a three teared system, Law Order Revenge. Like most you see that as final, but yet again you are caught up 200 years in the past. So much so that despite Technological advances, Medical Advances etc.. You refuse to keep up with the Moral Advances. Why else would ONE bishop be capable of blocking Gay Marriage?

Its also sadly the same in Muslim Countries, their religion came of WAR. Their entire logic is a mindset from a war that ended CENTURIES ago. Hell even the Hijab, Niqab aint in their rules. They cant see beyond the past in order to feel the present slapping them in the face.

We in the UK have had EMPIRES almost the size of Rome, Alexander Xerxies, Khan, but rather than breaking up down to violence. WE BROKE OUR EMPRIE UP WITH SIGNATURES ON PAPER..

Since the WWII how many other than Korea can the US call valid and victorious wars?

[SarahG]

We in the UK have had EMPIRES almost the size of Rome, Alexander Xerxies, Khan, but rather than breaking up down to violence. WE BROKE OUR EMPRIE UP WITH SIGNATURES ON PAPER..

That's misleading, there are some important distinctions there, the biggest the British empire became was right after WW1, and the reason for downscaling the amount of colonies was that it simply wasn't profitable in the way having colonies used to be. Not to mention, the British were so over extended that they couldn't protect their colonies, a situation that contributed to how many of those assets were taken during WW2. The cost, just in WW2, in protecting, taking back, and then rebuilding all these far off lands just showed how pointless their possession was.



Since the WWII how many other than Korea can the US call valid and victorious wars?

We haven't been in a war since Korea. Military operations, yes. But a formal war? No. Technically, Korea isn't over- so calling it victorious would be misleading.