Is this how some of you girls feel about escorting?

[Solitary Brother]

I ran into this and thought it was very heartfelt and sad and wanted to know if you girls that escort feel the same.
Your feedback is appreciated GIRLS.




You could not even begin to fathom wat its like to be a hooker.

Try selling your self to strange men 15 times a week, take care of a family, as if your life to peachy, and then try to maintain a relationship with a man that does not, or worse, does know what you do for a living ad begs you to quit. ( though he has no job and cant even support himself) Yet he scares away your clients because he doesnt want some other man fucking his girl)
meanwhile you are the only one bringng home the bacon)


Try sucking a sick of a man that replusives you to the point of vomit, yet they write reviews about what a fat digsusting pig you are, meanwhile THEY are the ones that hired you in the first place!!

Try having men use you for sex ( though they pay) fuck you. and THEN try to make you quit the business!

Try having to wake up each work morning not knowing if today is "D" day, or if some asshole is going to rip you off. And if he does, try coming home and act as nothing bad has happened to you today

Try being a hooker, and not find yourself at some point ( and you will) hooked on pills, drugs or whatever it takes to get through the day!

Try being a hooker and being a normal, sane, upstanding member person in society.

Try being a hooker and meeting the man you want to spend the rest of your life with, but you cant quit because selling your ass is all you know..but you do love him

Try walking a mile in a hookers shoes,and I promise you, you would rather go barefoot!

[Ryz]

Great post

[jjhill]

I wonder how the guys that use escorts feel after reading this post?

[Shining Star]

Don't understand the purpose of this post.

Are men supposed to feel sorry for hookers? Not seek out their services for fear of contributing to their "problems"?

Leaving aside those whom are forced, and or otherwise made to sell themselves for funds, those go on the game are or should be well aware of all risks as well as benefits.

[thx1138]

Aren't there support networks for hookers? Like an AAA?

[Norma]

TRY NOT being a hooker.

[slinky]

Try going to school and learning a trade or at lest getting a college education.

Try working for the wages that most of those fat disgusting guys are who are paying you $300.

Try having some responsibility and showing up at a job which has regular hours which don't allow you to go out till 8AM every night and work when you feel like it.

Try NOT doing drugs recreationally, and then abusing them harder when you get stressed out by having to see clients.

Try not screwing every guy who you find the slightest bit sexually attractive FOR FREE.

Try not being a hustler, ROB or actually doing anything which in any other business would be considered "customer service".

[AishaX]

Try going to school and learning a trade or at lest getting a college education.
Try getting that education then not getting jobs because any decent job will do a background check, find all previous address's and names, check your credit for some reason, and in the process find your T.



Try working for the wages that most of those fat disgusting guys are who are paying you $300.
Try affording transition in the first 20-30 years of your life, half of that time spent as a minor, on those amounts of money.

I can shorten this much. Walk a mile in our heels and then talk about what being us is like. (having to choose between cute shoes that hurt your feet and ugly comfortable shoes is just the begining.)

[RubyTS]

Awwwww bendito!

[scroller]

I'm pretty skeptical that that's a real account (source?).

If it was, this is obviously someone who's high on the burnout scale and needs to get out of the business. The last piece of research I saw on the issue (Koken thesis, CUNY 2009), surveying indendent sex workers in NYC had results like these: Emotional Exhaustion generally Low or Medium on average (37%, 40%), Depersonalization generally Low (47%), Personal Competency in the work rated mostly High (37%). Vanwesenbeck study (2005) showed majority of women sex workers (70%) reported "hardly" or "almost never" using drugs.

This account sounds like a rather cartoonish worst-case-scenario.

[RubyTS]

yeah it sounded pretty dreamed up to me... like how a guy THINKS escort workers feel. Pretty dramatic.

[Legend]

I ran into this and thought it was very heartfelt and sad and wanted to know if you girls that escort feel the same.
Your feedback is appreciated GIRLS.




You could not even begin to fathom wat its like to be a hooker.

Try selling your self to strange men 15 times a week, take care of a family, as if your life to peachy, and then try to maintain a relationship with a man that does not, or worse, does know what you do for a living ad begs you to quit. ( though he has no job and cant even support himself) Yet he scares away your clients because he doesnt want some other man fucking his girl)
meanwhile you are the only one bringng home the bacon)


Try sucking a sick of a man that replusives you to the point of vomit, yet they write reviews about what a fat digsusting pig you are, meanwhile THEY are the ones that hired you in the first place!!

Try having men use you for sex ( though they pay) fuck you. and THEN try to make you quit the business!

Try having to wake up each work morning not knowing if today is "D" day, or if some asshole is going to rip you off. And if he does, try coming home and act as nothing bad has happened to you today

Try being a hooker, and not find yourself at some point ( and you will) hooked on pills, drugs or whatever it takes to get through the day!

Try being a hooker and being a normal, sane, upstanding member person in society.

Try being a hooker and meeting the man you want to spend the rest of your life with, but you cant quit because selling your ass is all you know..but you do love him

Try walking a mile in a hookers shoes,and I promise you, you would rather go barefoot!

We all know you made that s**t up to start drama.

[slinky]

I can shorten this much. Walk a mile in our heels and then talk about what being us is like. (having to choose between cute shoes that hurt your feet and ugly comfortable shoes is just the begining.)

Baby, I've walked a lot more miles in those same exact shoes than you have.

[AishaX]

Really.

So you have lost out on job opportunities, education opportunities, etc on account of your being a transwoman? Or do you just dress up on weekends?

Not that there's anything wrong with people who do just dress up some days and not others. It's just if you aren't full time you can always go get work as a man, once you go full time it's something else altogether.

[SarahG]

Try going to school and learning a trade or at lest getting a college education.
Try getting that education then not getting jobs because any decent job will do a background check, find all previous address's and names, check your credit for some reason, and in the process find your T.



Try working for the wages that most of those fat disgusting guys are who are paying you $300.
Try affording transition in the first 20-30 years of your life, half of that time spent as a minor, on those amounts of money.

I can shorten this much. Walk a mile in our heels and then talk about what being us is like. (having to choose between cute shoes that hurt your feet and ugly comfortable shoes is just the begining.)

Exactly, to say nothing of the people who go through the formalities of the name change after they've gotten their education, and thus can't use it on resumes without outting themselves. Some schools take the position that their transcripts & diplomas should only reflect the name used in attendance (although I tend to think this is more common with highschools than colleges).

I can't prove I finished HS without outting myself, I finished among the top of my class from a large school but my school won't issue a new diploma or transcript. Thankfully, since it's HS, 99% of the people & businesses out there don't give a shit about it, and won't check up on it (and for any job that matters, there's no sense even mentioning highschool). I can't imagine running into that problem after finishing a college degree program however :shock: And still having the student loans to pay for it?

[BLKGSXR]

Sarah shut up lol.Jk
Getting an education defines are you a lowlife or are you an idividual who can talk and be acknowledged enough to do what you go to school for....to be honest there is alot of crying in this thread. Slink is an elderly gentleman I believe he has had his times of turmoil so buck the fuck up and bite down and dont refute everything he has to say.

[SarahG]

Sarah shut up lol.Jk

Why, what are you going to do about it? :lol:

[slinky]

Really.

So you have lost out on job opportunities, education opportunities, etc on account of your being a transwoman? Or do you just dress up on weekends?

Not that there's anything wrong with people who do just dress up some days and not others. It's just if you aren't full time you can always go get work as a man, once you go full time it's something else altogether.




Exactly, to say nothing of the people who go through the formalities of the name change after they've gotten their education, and thus can't use it on resumes without outting themselves. Some schools take the position that their transcripts & diplomas should only reflect the name used in attendance (although I tend to think this is more common with highschools than colleges).

I can't prove I finished HS without outting myself, I finished among the top of my class from a large school but my school won't issue a new diploma or transcript. Thankfully, since it's HS, 99% of the people & businesses out there don't give a shit about it, and won't check up on it (and for any job that matters, there's no sense even mentioning highschool). I can't imagine running into that problem after finishing a college degree program however :shock: And still having the student loans to pay for it?


This just proves how self centered you are: this is not a thread about being a transwoman, it's a thread about being a sex worker. The original statement quoted (at least the first time it was published WHICH WAS ON MY FUCKING WEBSITE*) was NOT WRITTEN BY A TRANSWOMAN. It was written by female sex worker, and is about SEX WORK, not trans ANYTHING.

The person who wrote it was a close friend of mine who since has passed away (I believe at her own hand), so before you get on my ass about your own personal bullshit, why not try checking your facts first?

SarahG,

I have always respected your opinions on transgender issues because of your expertise, so I have to say I take offense to you, who as far as I know have very little direct experience with sex work (and I'd be willing to bet that the combined experience with sex work between both of you is probably less than 100th that of mine), telling me that I shouldn't talk about a subject which i don't know about when in fact the truth is that I've forgotten more about sex work that you guys will ever know. And I'm truly sick an tired of several posters on this board actually thinking that no guy can ever know anything about sex work and that simply being transsexual magically turns you into an expert on sex work.

I tell you what: why don't the two of you try walking in MY fucking shoes for 30 years (the length of time I have been in the business) and then tell me what vantage point you see things from?

* http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=460732&highlight=barefoot#post460732

[beandip]

Why not just start a legit business? WTF?

Freelance. cry me a river. not.

[AishaX]

Others talk to me of getting an education.... stop... there are enough people here that know of the amount of education I have, it is staggering to say the least.

Education does not cancel out discrimination. They don't add up like +'s and -'s to even out. If someone is a biggot, or just worries about what biggot's will think only the -'s matter.

Slink I feel sorry for your friend. But a big whatever to the rest of what you said. You need to have a either a strong coffe, a strong shot, or a strong hit of whatever get's you high and relax. You write of your website like it was google.com as if we all would have seen it.

[CaptainGeech]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many people also see there life situation as the glass half empty. Alas many peoples perception of reality is skewed and usually consists of them feeling that almost everyone has it better than they do. With that said I am probably no different. But it is insanely hard for me to really feel bad for those people. Most of them got into the business because it was a fast buck. Maybe not an "easy" buck, but a fast buck none the less. Try working at a soul killing 40 hour a week retail job that pays barely minimum wage only to be laid off with little notice. Its hard for me to feel bad for people often pulling down thousands of dollars a week tax free. You can say its because you "deserve" the high amount of money. Or that you need it to transition. But in the end of the day almost anything that can generate that kind of money is going to be shady. And you know this before you get in the business. You need to take the good with the bad in that situation and shut the fuck up. And as far as the drugs are concerned... if you're stupid enough to blow all your money on that shit than you are a fucking idiot and deserve whatever you get.

[slinky]

Brenda,

Sorry I blew your shit up for the bullshit that it was, but you are just too full of shit to let slide with your crap. No one needed to know anything about my website to know what the thread was about - just the ability to read and understand English (another irony considering how much you stand on your soap box and scream how educated you are - is it just that reading English somehow wasn't part of that extensive CV?). It is quite ironic, since it's really what the thread is about in a lot of ways. Stop blaming your problems on being T and how the world is unfair to you as a result and try taking some personal fucking responsibility for once.

Oh, but I guess that would mean you couldn't keep blaming everyone else for your own shortcomings.

PS CaptainGeech: well put.

[SarahG]

SarahG,
... telling me that I shouldn't talk about a subject which i don't know about...

Maybe you should reread my posts in this thread. I've never told ANYONE on this website what they should or shouldn't talk about, and I certainly don't plan to.

Have I ever said what you do or do not know about anything? Hell no. I don't play those games.

My only point was that sometimes people decide to do things they wouldn't normally even consider, because of circumstances outside their control. This is true whether or not we're talking about trans people, or trans issues. I truly believe Brenda was correct insofar as saying that sometimes people have their options limited due to other peoples' closed mindedness- in her post specifically she talked about having the education, but not being able to find a job that would take advantage of it. This is something I'm sure we all agree happens to some extent or another (the question not being IF, but "to what degree?"). That some trans people run into some problems similar to those she described, and how- I think is something that is free from debate. Similarly there is by no means any way someone could even begin to think (at least, without being intellectually dishonest) that trans people have a monopoly on having those types of problems.

I know nothing, nor do I claim to know anything about your original post or where it originated from. That said I don't beat around issues, if I had thought your post was some fictionalized story/posting meant to create drama- I would have called you out on it directly.

Please, in the future, don't try to put words in my mouth- I've at least shown you as much respect.

[AishaX]

Brenda,

Sorry I blew your shit up for the bullshit that it was, but you are just too full of shit to let slide with your crap.....Stop blaming your problems on being T and how the world is unfair to you as a result and try taking some personal fucking responsibility for once.

Oh, but I guess that would mean you couldn't keep blaming everyone else for your own shortcomings.

PS CaptainGeech: well put.

Your really making a fool of yourself with this. Please keep telling me how little education I have had. ( Google my book Quantum Space-Time Dynamics first )

You seem to have a need to demonstrate how much you know and how little I know. Well if it will make you feel better little man. Fine you know everything I know nothing. I don't even know what my own life circumstances have been. :roll:

Thanks for the moral support Sara. I just give up trying to talk to guys like them. According to them if you don't act a certain way then your an idiot.

[slinky]

No, according to them if say say stupid, ignorant shit about things which you don't know anything about you are an idiot, brick.

but if you want to talk about what your education is, why don't you actually list what your real CV is rather than pointing to a book which, when Googled as you suggested, really only leads to what really isn't a book at all, but wehat looks like an ungraded term paper for an under graduate level physics class (ALL 8 PAGES of your "book" BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH).

For those who have any interest, here is the alleged "book":

http://www.scientificblogging.com/files/QuantumSpacetimeDynamics.pdf

It basically doesn't say anything dispositive about anything and leaves the reader with about as much new information about that subject as the writer does here about this subject.

OH, Brenda, YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!! You are stupid on many more levels than I originally thought.

[slinky]

SarahG,
... telling me that I shouldn't talk about a subject which i don't know about...



Please, in the future, don't try to put words in my mouth- I've at least shown you as much respect.

Given the extremely creative editing of my post I find the coda less than credible.

[slinky]

By the way, how about the two of you actually getting on the subject of the thread instead (which is basically working girl burn out) and adding something to the discussion (if you are actually able to, that is).

[SarahG]

SarahG,
... telling me that I shouldn't talk about a subject which i don't know about...



Please, in the future, don't try to put words in my mouth- I've at least shown you as much respect.

Given the extremely creative editing of my post I find the coda less than credible.

Perhaps there is simply a communication problem here, just what about my original post offended you?

If I am reading this wrong I apologize, but I am genuinely confused as to what of my post offended you.

[slinky]

SarahG,

you know I respect you. but when someone says something/anything, and your answer quotes them and then starts with "Exactly", it implies you are saying the same thing they are, which included "I can shorten this much. Walk a mile in our heels and then talk about what being us is like. (having to choose between cute shoes that hurt your feet and ugly comfortable shoes is just the begining.)"

And if you are wondering about why I seem to be sensitive about this, how would you feel if some subject - any subject - on this board started with a quote from a close friend of yours who killed herself, which is an expression of her pain, which you were personally witness to IRL, and people tried to tell you they had a better idea about what it was about than you did?

[AishaX]

Slinky just how in the fuck would any one here know that was a quote for your friend on your website? You are reacting like that is universal knowledge.

Second why arent you just as mad about the people who wrote that they were sure that the quote was a total fake?

[SarahG]

SarahG,

you know I respect you. but when someone says something/anything, and your answer quotes them and then starts with "Exactly", it implies you are saying the same thing they are.

Ok, in that case let's clear the air and start over. There's surely some kind of communication problem here.... lets just make it a moot point and move on.

What I was agreeing with, for clarification, was her observation that outside circumstances can play a role for some people. I.e. having the education and not being able to get a job that would use it. I thought by my post that it was clear I was talking about that (hence my own experiences relating to education), but perhaps that was a poor judgment call on my part.

I think we'd all agree here that that type of bullshit (having an education but not being able to find someone who would hire you for it) is tragic. I would even go so far as to say that anytime someone feels their career was forced onto them due to outside circumstances (i.e. job discrimination, one possibility out of many), instead of free will- is tragic.

If I am getting the correct impressions from the responses to this thread, there are people who are entering sex work not because "they think it would make a fast buck" but because "they don't think they have a choice in the matter." That's not a good thing by anyone's standards. Then there are (and this is what I believe your original post is in reference to) people who have entered the business only to realize a few decades into it, "wait, I'm __ years old, what am I going to be doing to support myself once my looks go from age? How am I going to retire? Now I'm stuck here without a future."

I've known a lot of people who fell into that later situation (If you really want to know specifics about my background, feel free to hit me up on YIM or AIM sometime just say who you are tho b/c i do screen ims from people i don't recognize), I was actually talking to GSXR on IM about this earlier today in fact. It's not that uncommon of a story, especially for what I wouldn't call "top dollar girls", people who go into sex work thinking they have no choice, don't plan for the future (because they're not making enough to make ends meet, certainly not with anything left over to save up for retirement), and end up feeling like they're trapped without resumes, savings, health care or retirement. All that said the difficult part comes in trying to assume one specific experience, or type of experience, is reflective of all of sex working. There are so many things that may or may not influence how much these experiences vary from person to person. For instance, prostitution is perfectly legal in some situations, or in some locations... is that "cheap" drug addicted street walker junkie working a street corner where pros is illegal having an experience reflective of those working in high dollar brothels in countries where prostitution is legal? I am not inclined to say so, at least at face value.

It's so easy for people to say "go get a real job" (whatever that means), "go get an education," "go start your own business"- the usual list of rebuttals. That's easier said then done, and not everyone who tries those avenues are successful at it. Of these, I think "go get an education" is the weakest argument of them all, simply because of how expensive education can get, and how many people (and by no means is this a trans-specific situation) end up not being able to do a damn thing with that education. Education itself is a process that employs gatekeeping to some extent, unless someone is getting a free ride (from brains or sports) they have to pony up the cost of that education, and coupe with any lost wages that they'd encounter from working less hours (on account for their time spent in school instead of earning money). I know people who didn't end up in school simply because they couldn't get anything that paid a living wage as far as employment went, and had parents that wouldn't cosign student loans for them. Even a generous 90% aid package from a university would be meaningless for someone who has no way of covering the remaining 10%. And then if they get those student loans, enabling them to get an education- after the bush admin reforms student loans can't disappear. All that debt carries forever, even if you're a demographic that then can't find employment upon graduating... you get the point.

If people truly care about those stuck in situations they didn't want to be in, that they entered strictly because it was a choice of last resort, the better response is not "go get/do __", but trying to develope a society where people don't feel the need to "pick that last resort" in the first place. By the time people feel they have no choice but to do something they have no foreseeable future in, any response to "fix it for that person" is a dollar short and a day late. How did they get to the point where they picked something they saw no future in? That's the big question.

Then there are people who enter fields like this because they DO see a future in it, maybe not a 70-year long future, but a future just the same. Think of all the trans girls (I am mentioning trans issues again because, lets face it, most the people who have worked in sex work on this forum are trans) that have said something to the effect of "I'd do anything, legal or not legal, that I thought would get me closer to the future I want/need to have aka transitioned."

[BLKGSXR]

Damn Sarah..Slow it down....Double time...So check this aisha talks too muchin general + the shit and needs to stfu-2cents
Slink is correct on 99.9Percent the shit he says and sarah is just here for giggles and laughs..Does that sum it up?

[slinky]

a) Slinky just how in the fuck would any one here know that was a quote for your friend on your website? You are reacting like that is universal knowledge.

b)Second why arent you just as mad about the people who wrote that they were sure that the quote was a total fake?

a) Because it doesn't matter. No one needs to know where the quote comes from to know IT'S NOT a TRANS ISSUE, IT'S A SEX WORK ISSUE. But for some folks, they NEED TO BLAME EVERYTHING WHICH IS WRONG IN THEIR LIFE ON PEOPLE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM. What i am reacting like is that it's bullshit to try to turn every single issue into a trans discrimination issue and then cry about who it's so tough being trans, etc. Next week someone will start a thread that it's too cold for spring, and someone will say
"I know, it's tough being trans because.......". And when some guy who is a climatologist explains what is going on and contradicts that post, some girl will say "you can't know because you haven't walked a mile in the new Dior Spring Collection".

b) See a. I'm not mad that people don't know things. I'm mad when people try to tell me things like they are the only one's who could possibly know anything about those things because they are {insert the name of minority here which that person belongs to} and no one but "one of us" knows anything about the issue. It is only compounded when the person claiming such isn't even a member of that minority because they aren't even aware of who said it, and they aren't even part of the same group that the poster who claimed special knowledge is from.

[slinky]

Ok, in that case let's clear the air and start over. There's surely some kind of communication problem here.... lets just make it a moot point and move on.

What I was agreeing with, for clarification, was her observation that outside circumstances can play a role for some people. I.e. having the education and not being able to get a job that would use it. I thought by my post that it was clear I was talking about that (hence my own experiences relating to education), but perhaps that was a poor judgment call on my part.

1) I think we'd all agree here that that type of bullshit (having an education but not being able to find someone who would hire you for it) is tragic. I would even go so far as to say that anytime someone feels their career was forced onto them due to outside circumstances (i.e. job discrimination, one possibility out of many), instead of free will- is tragic.

2) If I am getting the correct impressions from the responses to this thread, there are people who are entering sex work not because "they think it would make a fast buck" but because "they don't think they have a choice in the matter." That's not a good thing by anyone's standards. Then there are (and this is what I believe your original post is in reference to) people who have entered the business only to realize a few decades into it, "wait, I'm __ years old, what am I going to be doing to support myself once my looks go from age? How am I going to retire? Now I'm stuck here without a future."

3) I've known a lot of people who fell into that later situation (If you really want to know specifics about my background, feel free to hit me up on YIM or AIM sometime just say who you are tho b/c i do screen ims from people i don't recognize), I was actually talking to GSXR on IM about this earlier today in fact. It's not that uncommon of a story, especially for what I wouldn't call "top dollar girls", people who go into sex work thinking they have no choice, don't plan for the future (because they're not making enough to make ends meet, certainly not with anything left over to save up for retirement), and end up feeling like they're trapped without resumes, savings, health care or retirement. All that said the difficult part comes in trying to assume one specific experience, or type of experience, is reflective of all of sex working. There are so many things that may or may not influence how much these experiences vary from person to person. For instance, prostitution is perfectly legal in some situations, or in some locations... is that "cheap" drug addicted street walker junkie working a street corner where pros is illegal having an experience reflective of those working in high dollar brothels in countries where prostitution is legal? I am not inclined to say so, at least at face value.

4) It's so easy for people to say "go get a real job" (whatever that means), "go get an education," "go start your own business"- the usual list of rebuttals. That's easier said then done, and not everyone who tries those avenues are successful at it. Of these, I think "go get an education" is the weakest argument of them all, simply because of how expensive education can get, and how many people (and by no means is this a trans-specific situation) end up not being able to do a damn thing with that education. Education itself is a process that employs gatekeeping to some extent, unless someone is getting a free ride (from brains or sports) they have to pony up the cost of that education, and coupe with any lost wages that they'd encounter from working less hours (on account for their time spent in school instead of earning money). I know people who didn't end up in school simply because they couldn't get anything that paid a living wage as far as employment went, and had parents that wouldn't cosign student loans for them. Even a generous 90% aid package from a university would be meaningless for someone who has no way of covering the remaining 10%. And then if they get those student loans, enabling them to get an education- after the bush admin reforms student loans can't disappear. All that debt carries forever, even if you're a demographic that then can't find employment upon graduating... you get the point.

5) If people truly care about those stuck in situations they didn't want to be in, that they entered strictly because it was a choice of last resort, the better response is not "go get/do __", but trying to develope a society where people don't feel the need to "pick that last resort" in the first place. By the time people feel they have no choice but to do something they have no foreseeable future in, any response to "fix it for that person" is a dollar short and a day late. How did they get to the point where they picked something they saw no future in? That's the big question.

6) Then there are people who enter fields like this because they DO see a future in it, maybe not a 70-year long future, but a future just the same. Think of all the trans girls (I am mentioning trans issues again because, lets face it, most the people who have worked in sex work on this forum are trans) that have said something to the effect of "I'd do anything, legal or not legal, that I thought would get me closer to the future I want/need to have aka transitioned."

1) Except that this is not at all what the person speaking in the quote was referring to (having inside knowledge of the situation, that is just a flat fact).

2) that's only part of it, but yes that is true

3) While i am not saying that your points are universally untrue (because almost nothing is), I think in sex work, as in a lot of other things, people make excuses as to why they do things WHICH THEY DO BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO, NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. Yes, there is forced prostitution, but the percentage is not nearly as high as people believe (as an example: I challenge anyone here to give me the list of girls working the Tranny Parties in NYC who are being forced to against their will and compare it to tthe total population of girls working the parties. As a ercentage, it's a n umber approaching, if not at, ZERO.)

4) Assuming arguendo that everything written there is 1,000% correct, I'm still not sure where that results in "poor you" to prostitutes making $300 an hour because they have to deal with "difficult' clients.

5) The problem I have here is that ASIDE FROM THE FEW CASES OF FORCED PROSTITUTION, the vast, vast majority of sex workers get into it in the first place because of it seeming like "easy money". That's my own personal observation based on a survey with a same size of about 20,000. Show me a study which is believably unbiased (which I have never seen on this subject) with a sample size anywhere near mine, and maybe you'll convince me to change my mind.

6) Nothing wrong with that. But then they should STFU and not be making statements like the one at the beginning of this thread, huh?

[JeniferTS]

:violin

[AishaX]

a) Slinky just how in the fuck would any one here know that was a quote for your friend on your website? You are reacting like that is universal knowledge.

b)Second why arent you just as mad about the people who wrote that they were sure that the quote was a total fake?

a) Because it doesn't matter. No one needs to know where the quote comes from to know IT'S NOT a TRANS ISSUE, IT'S A SEX WORK ISSUE. But for some folks, they NEED TO BLAME EVERYTHING WHICH IS WRONG IN THEIR LIFE ON PEOPLE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM. What i am reacting like is that it's bullshit to try to turn every single issue into a trans discrimination issue and then cry about who it's so tough being trans, etc. .....

Look up at the header on the board. This board is all about trans women in porno yes. So of course were going to talk about this from a transperspective.



b) See a. I'm not mad that people don't know things. I'm mad when people try to tell me things like they are the only one's who could possibly know anything about those things because they are {insert the name of minority here which that person belongs to} and no one but "one of us" knows anything about the issue.

What makes me angry is things where members of the majority try to act like they can related to the lived experience of being a minority. Like a white person trying to say there is no more racism. What you are doing is just that ridiculous. Go ahead and yell. I'm done listening to you.

Just to warn anyone else off of carrying this on with you in this thread....

:trolls

[Solitary Brother]

Would you people for once stop arguing and calling people names?
Im the expert at that leave it to me.
Please concentrate on the original question.
I found it on a escort board and a female escort who posts there all the time wrote it.
It is very real.
I know for a fact the "smell" and grossness issues are true because you girls complain about it all the time.

Also....Jennifer(sweetnsexy) your a sexy muthafucka.

[scroller]

Your really making a fool of yourself with this. Please keep telling me how little education I have had. ( Google my book Quantum Space-Time Dynamics first )

If that's actually what you're calling your "book", I'll just suggest that you are embarassing yourself by drawing attention to it. (a) It's 8 pages long. (b) It's obviously not peer-reviewed. (c) There are typos all over the place, starting with the very first sentence ("it's", "Ensteine", etc.) (d) Everywhere I scan there are fundamental errors in the physics and math (limits are not defined only for finite values, etc.). (e) The word "proof" is used in a highly incorrect fashion.

This is pseudoscience, and you are embarassing yourself by pointing it out. Do with that as you will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience#Identifying_pseudoscience

[AishaX]

@ Solitary brother.

In short yes. Saying yes to your question really is basically what touched off all this drama. Because saying yes prostitution is not always 100% fun fun fun got some other guys who probably do smell like shit, to react defensively. I am sorry I commented in the first place.



Your really making a fool of yourself with this. Please keep telling me how little education I have had. ( Google my book Quantum Space-Time Dynamics first )

If that's actually what you're calling your "book", I'll just suggest that you are embarassing yourself by drawing attention to it. (a) It's 8 pages long. .....

The link you found is to a paper I wrote with the same title, and posted a pre press version of to my blog... which I expanded on into a book. http://www.lulu.com/content/5364341 it is 51 pages long, you get to view the first 15 for free, for reasons of book binding not all of those pages have text on them. Just by passing the journals is more and more common in science, their so called peer review is not all it's cracked up to be. i.e. Blogosphere Beats Peer Review Finding Stealth Creationist Paper (http://www.scientificblogging.com/rationally_speaking/blogosphere_beats_peer_review_finding_stealth_crea tionist_paper) Another great example would be the peer reviewer who when he saw the first paper detailing the workings of a laser he thought it wasn't important enough to be published.

I don't expect you to understand my work. The thing is allot of people are telling other people to "get their shit together" try something else etc. This shows that I am trying. If I am making any mistake here it has been reacting logically to people who are reacting based on base reptilian emotion.

[Distance]

There seem to be thousands of reasons to hate being an escort, that's a certainty. Are there any reasons to enjoy it, apart from the obvious money? I am pretty sure some here do love it...



Never paid for sex, never will: It would be soul shattering I think. I mean, on the other hand, girlfriends maxed the credit cards on far too many occasions...so there. :lol:


I don't get why people can't/won't set up a website and make quite good money from home, be their own boss, work the hours they like. It is still quite an easy thing to do. And no, it would not even have to be a porn website or anything dirty/illegal/pyramidal. :wink:

[scroller]

The link you found is to a paper I wrote with the same title, and posted a pre press version of to my blog... which I expanded on into a book. http://www.lulu.com/content/5364341 it is 51 pages long, you get to view the first 15 for free, for reasons of book binding not all of those pages have text on them. Just by passing the journals is more and more common in science, their so called peer review is not all it's cracked up to be. i.e. Blogosphere Beats Peer Review Finding Stealth Creationist Paper (http://www.scientificblogging.com/rationally_speaking/blogosphere_beats_peer_review_finding_stealth_crea tionist_paper) Another great example would be the peer reviewer who when he saw the first paper detailing the workings of a laser he thought it wasn't important enough to be published.

I don't expect you to understand my work. The thing is allot of people are telling other people to "get their shit together" try something else etc. This shows that I am trying. If I am making any mistake here it has been reacting logically to people who are reacting based on base reptilian emotion.

Perfect.



Identifying pseudoscience

Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims
Use of obscurantist language, and misuse of apparently technical jargon in an effort to give claims the superficial trappings of science.

Lack of openness to testing by other experts
Evasion of peer review before publicizing results (called "science by press conference").[45] Some proponents of theories that contradict accepted scientific theories avoid subjecting their ideas to peer review, sometimes on the grounds that peer review is biased towards established paradigms, and sometimes on the grounds that assertions cannot be evaluated adequately using standard scientific methods. By remaining insulated from the peer review process, these proponents forgo the opportunity of corrective feedback from informed colleagues.[46]

Personalization of issues
Attacking the motives or character of anyone who questions the claims (see Ad hominem fallacy).[51]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psuedoscience

[tsmandy]

There seem to be thousands of reasons to hate being an escort, that's a certainty. Are there any reasons to enjoy it, apart from the obvious money? I am pretty sure some here do love it...


There were times when I really enjoyed it. The money was sometimes amazing, sometimes so-so, but it certainly wasn't the only factor in my enjoyment.

So what did I like about it?

I'm a people person, and I love sex and I always felt a sense of accomplishment when I taught a client something new (being a whore definitely includes being a sex educator)

Being interested in people it was always exciting to meet someone interesting, and learn a little bit about their lives, even just for a short time.

The back rubs, the foot rubs, the gifts, the general free time to pursue my music and other interests. All great things.

The downsides weren't so readily apparent to me though, as perspective is sometimes hard to have about ones own mental health and well-being.

I quit whoring in February and every week that goes by I feel a little happier, I enjoy sex with my partner and with other people for the pleasure of it without viewing it as work. I'm not stressing out constantly about taking calls, screening clients, worrying about the cops, angry wives, and psychos. I feel a little bit less alienated from my other friends who are not sex workers. I'm not dealing with all the sadness and emotional instability that my clients would bring to my home (and believe me, living in the "most depressing city in the US" during a severe economic downturn has its fair share of sadness) and now I generally feel a whole lot happier, and sex feels much more fun to me.

So I was feeling pretty burnt out, and I decided that I'd rather make a whole lot less money than become who I was becoming. Fortunately for me, I have built up enough of a secondary income from porn that I can survive and live a more modest life.

[SarahG]

Ok, in that case let's clear the air and start over. There's surely some kind of communication problem here.... lets just make it a moot point and move on.

What I was agreeing with, for clarification, was her observation that outside circumstances can play a role for some people. I.e. having the education and not being able to get a job that would use it. I thought by my post that it was clear I was talking about that (hence my own experiences relating to education), but perhaps that was a poor judgment call on my part.

1) I think we'd all agree here that that type of bullshit (having an education but not being able to find someone who would hire you for it) is tragic. I would even go so far as to say that anytime someone feels their career was forced onto them due to outside circumstances (i.e. job discrimination, one possibility out of many), instead of free will- is tragic.

2) If I am getting the correct impressions from the responses to this thread, there are people who are entering sex work not because "they think it would make a fast buck" but because "they don't think they have a choice in the matter." That's not a good thing by anyone's standards. Then there are (and this is what I believe your original post is in reference to) people who have entered the business only to realize a few decades into it, "wait, I'm __ years old, what am I going to be doing to support myself once my looks go from age? How am I going to retire? Now I'm stuck here without a future."

3) I've known a lot of people who fell into that later situation (If you really want to know specifics about my background, feel free to hit me up on YIM or AIM sometime just say who you are tho b/c i do screen ims from people i don't recognize), I was actually talking to GSXR on IM about this earlier today in fact. It's not that uncommon of a story, especially for what I wouldn't call "top dollar girls", people who go into sex work thinking they have no choice, don't plan for the future (because they're not making enough to make ends meet, certainly not with anything left over to save up for retirement), and end up feeling like they're trapped without resumes, savings, health care or retirement. All that said the difficult part comes in trying to assume one specific experience, or type of experience, is reflective of all of sex working. There are so many things that may or may not influence how much these experiences vary from person to person. For instance, prostitution is perfectly legal in some situations, or in some locations... is that "cheap" drug addicted street walker junkie working a street corner where pros is illegal having an experience reflective of those working in high dollar brothels in countries where prostitution is legal? I am not inclined to say so, at least at face value.

4) It's so easy for people to say "go get a real job" (whatever that means), "go get an education," "go start your own business"- the usual list of rebuttals. That's easier said then done, and not everyone who tries those avenues are successful at it. Of these, I think "go get an education" is the weakest argument of them all, simply because of how expensive education can get, and how many people (and by no means is this a trans-specific situation) end up not being able to do a damn thing with that education. Education itself is a process that employs gatekeeping to some extent, unless someone is getting a free ride (from brains or sports) they have to pony up the cost of that education, and coupe with any lost wages that they'd encounter from working less hours (on account for their time spent in school instead of earning money). I know people who didn't end up in school simply because they couldn't get anything that paid a living wage as far as employment went, and had parents that wouldn't cosign student loans for them. Even a generous 90% aid package from a university would be meaningless for someone who has no way of covering the remaining 10%. And then if they get those student loans, enabling them to get an education- after the bush admin reforms student loans can't disappear. All that debt carries forever, even if you're a demographic that then can't find employment upon graduating... you get the point.

5) If people truly care about those stuck in situations they didn't want to be in, that they entered strictly because it was a choice of last resort, the better response is not "go get/do __", but trying to develope a society where people don't feel the need to "pick that last resort" in the first place. By the time people feel they have no choice but to do something they have no foreseeable future in, any response to "fix it for that person" is a dollar short and a day late. How did they get to the point where they picked something they saw no future in? That's the big question.

6) Then there are people who enter fields like this because they DO see a future in it, maybe not a 70-year long future, but a future just the same. Think of all the trans girls (I am mentioning trans issues again because, lets face it, most the people who have worked in sex work on this forum are trans) that have said something to the effect of "I'd do anything, legal or not legal, that I thought would get me closer to the future I want/need to have aka transitioned."

1) Except that this is not at all what the person speaking in the quote was referring to (having inside knowledge of the situation, that is just a flat fact).

2) that's only part of it, but yes that is true

3) While i am not saying that your points are universally untrue (because almost nothing is), I think in sex work, as in a lot of other things, people make excuses as to why they do things WHICH THEY DO BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO, NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. Yes, there is forced prostitution, but the percentage is not nearly as high as people believe (as an example: I challenge anyone here to give me the list of girls working the Tranny Parties in NYC who are being forced to against their will and compare it to tthe total population of girls working the parties. As a ercentage, it's a n umber approaching, if not at, ZERO.)

4) Assuming arguendo that everything written there is 1,000% correct, I'm still not sure where that results in "poor you" to prostitutes making $300 an hour because they have to deal with "difficult' clients.

5) The problem I have here is that ASIDE FROM THE FEW CASES OF FORCED PROSTITUTION, the vast, vast majority of sex workers get into it in the first place because of it seeming like "easy money". That's my own personal observation based on a survey with a same size of about 20,000. Show me a study which is believably unbiased (which I have never seen on this subject) with a sample size anywhere near mine, and maybe you'll convince me to change my mind.

6) Nothing wrong with that. But then they should STFU and not be making statements like the one at the beginning of this thread, huh?

1- Ok sure, let's agree there then. But from this thread's initial post I really had no idea what the full story was. I assumed that, since this was HA, whoever the source was, it was a trans girl in sex work (again, probably a bad assumption on my part). You can't expect people to know a given passage is by a friend, or a deceased friend, or whether or not that friend was trans without including that information. I don't read your site, I really had no idea what the background information was. This thread was the first time I'd seen that passage...

3- I was talking about perceptions more so than reality. To put it another way, someone may think/feel incorrectly that they have no choice in the matter, that doesn't mean they really had no choice, but it explains their actions once they've come to that conclusion (does that make sense?). What difference does "having a choice" make if/when people don't realize it and falsely conclude they have no choice?

4- Come on now, it would be incredibly unrealistic to think all prostitutes make $300 an hour. I don't know how it would actually break down statistically but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bell curve involved... at any rate that wasn't my point. See paragraph #3.

5- "the vast, vast majority of sex workers get into it in the first place because of it seeming like "easy money"."- ok sure, let's assume you're right on this point and agree with it. Would it be incorrect to suppose that people, after being sex workers for _entersomelengthoftime_ find that they think they're "trapped" there b/c of lacking savings, resumes, education, retirement, healthcare- etc etc? I know I've personally known a lot of girls (GG's) growing up who had entered sex work for whatever reason, weren't making enough cash from it to get by completely (so no savings) and then realized once they were getting beyond middle aged "oh fuck, I'm old now, what am I going to do? No one is wanting to spend an hour with me anymore...", it's not a good situation by any means (then again, when would it ever be a good situation for someone to wakeup at 50 or 60 and go "I have no savings or health care, no retirement, and i'm old now!"?). Assuming you're right- that most sex workers get into it in the first place because it seems like "easy money," does that not imply that they see (real or perceived) a future there?

[slinky]

Your really making a fool of yourself with this. Please keep telling me how little education I have had. ( Google my book Quantum Space-Time Dynamics first )

If that's actually what you're calling your "book", I'll just suggest that you are embarassing yourself by drawing attention to it. (a) It's 8 pages long. (b) It's obviously not peer-reviewed. (c) There are typos all over the place, starting with the very first sentence ("it's", "Ensteine", etc.) (d) Everywhere I scan there are fundamental errors in the physics and math (limits are not defined only for finite values, etc.). (e) The word "proof" is used in a highly incorrect fashion.

This is pseudoscience, and you are embarassing yourself by pointing it out. Do with that as you will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience#Identifying_pseudoscience

And note this is her "proof" of how I am "making a fool of myself". Sort of funny because (in a math/science way), she doesn't even know what a "proof" is.

[slinky]

@ Solitary brother.

In short yes. Saying yes to your question really is basically what touched off all this drama. Because saying yes prostitution is not always 100% fun fun fun got some other guys who probably do smell like shit, to react defensively. I am sorry I commented in the first place.



Your really making a fool of yourself with this. Please keep telling me how little education I have had. ( Google my book Quantum Space-Time Dynamics first )

If that's actually what you're calling your "book", I'll just suggest that you are embarassing yourself by drawing attention to it. (a) It's 8 pages long. .....

The link you found is to a paper I wrote with the same title, and posted a pre press version of to my blog... which I expanded on into a book. http://www.lulu.com/content/5364341 it is 51 pages long, you get to view the first 15 for free, for reasons of book binding not all of those pages have text on them. Just by passing the journals is more and more common in science, their so called peer review is not all it's cracked up to be. i.e. Blogosphere Beats Peer Review Finding Stealth Creationist Paper (http://www.scientificblogging.com/rationally_speaking/blogosphere_beats_peer_review_finding_stealth_crea tionist_paper) Another great example would be the peer reviewer who when he saw the first paper detailing the workings of a laser he thought it wasn't important enough to be published.

I don't expect you to understand my work. The thing is allot of people are telling other people to "get their shit together" try something else etc. This shows that I am trying. If I am making any mistake here it has been reacting logically to people who are reacting based on base reptilian emotion.

When you have found that you have dug yourself into a hole, the solution is rarely "more digging". But please keep going, because, because this is getting more and more amusing as you dig.

PS Note: CV still not present. Wonder why that is after the initial claim?

[slinky]

1- Ok sure, let's agree there then. But from this thread's initial post I really had no idea what the full story was. I assumed that, since this was HA, whoever the source was, it was a trans girl in sex work (again, probably a bad assumption on my part). You can't expect people to know a given passage is by a friend, or a deceased friend, or whether or not that friend was trans without including that information. I don't read your site, I really had no idea what the background information was. This thread was the first time I'd seen that passage...

3- I was talking about perceptions more so than reality. To put it another way, someone may think/feel incorrectly that they have no choice in the matter, that doesn't mean they really had no choice, but it explains their actions once they've come to that conclusion (does that make sense?). What difference does "having a choice" make if/when people don't realize it and falsely conclude they have no choice?

4- Come on now, it would be incredibly unrealistic to think all prostitutes make $300 an hour. I don't know how it would actually break down statistically but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bell curve involved... at any rate that wasn't my point. See paragraph #3.

5- "the vast, vast majority of sex workers get into it in the first place because of it seeming like "easy money"."- ok sure, let's assume you're right on this point and agree with it. Would it be incorrect to suppose that people, after being sex workers for _entersomelengthoftime_ find that they think they're "trapped" there b/c of lacking savings, resumes, education, retirement, healthcare- etc etc? I know I've personally known a lot of girls (GG's) growing up who had entered sex work for whatever reason, weren't making enough cash from it to get by completely (so no savings) and then realized once they were getting beyond middle aged "oh fuck, I'm old now, what am I going to do? No one is wanting to spend an hour with me anymore...", it's not a good situation by any means (then again, when would it ever be a good situation for someone to wakeup at 50 or 60 and go "I have no savings or health care, no retirement, and i'm old now!"?). Assuming you're right- that most sex workers get into it in the first place because it seems like "easy money," does that not imply that they see (real or perceived) a future there?

Firstly, I'm not sure where this fits into this discussion, because all of this seems to have gotten rather far afield from the OP, so it seems to lack a certain gegree of relevance. But, to answer your points;

1) Again, I'll point out that no one needs or needed to know where it came from. It could mave come from a site on bird collecting. the problem I found was that, as we usually say in law "first you look within the four corners of the document". My points don't assume anyone had to know who wrote it or where it came from, but certain other people's points immediately inserted all sorts of assumptions that were not part of the initial quote and acted as if they were present in order to make irrelevant points to the issue. And it's very frequently the same; you can see it in the latest responses from it. It does what my Applied Cost / Benefit Analysis professor always said was the admission that the person had no more valid arguments to make: they needed to "raise the argument to the next highest moral plane" by ignoring the discussion and pointing to the title of the board and using that as an excuse bring in irrelevant issues

3) This is heading down a slippery slope, because if you want to make that argument, it doesn't matter what the subject matter is, it's ubiquitous. Throwing ubiquitous arguments or tautologies into discussions, unfortunately, rarley leads to a more enlightened discussion simply by the nature of what they are.

4) Take out the $300 an hour and substitute 500% a day of what their clients make then. That figure is not only a true average, but cuts across classes of both hookers and Johns. Please note the word "average", though so we can avoid a useless tangent when someone brings up some anecdotal evidence of saces which do not fit the average.

5) Firstly, hooking is most certainly not the only profession where this is an issue: and getting back to the OP and my and other people's answers to it, it's the reason why you saw some of the "insensitive" answers to it: there are plenty of people who are in exactly the same position wherever they are. but you often see people who are being highly or "overpaid" complaining about their plight, when in fact the reason why they are getting the compensation they are is MOSTLY BECAUSE of the very things they are complaining about. So, when the conclusion is that someone puts themselves in a job where their only "skill set" is tolerance of risk, poor conditions, lack of benefits, etc., when they turn around and start complaining about those things one can sympathize to some extent for what they have allowed themselves to get themselves into, but it's harder (for me and many others) to sympathize with the job conditions in general. An example I often give is back when Mike Milken and Ivan Boesky got put in prison for about 2 years each and fined $200 million and $100 million respectively, but when they came out were left with $1 billion and $100 million respectively. 99% of Americans, while they wouldn't want to go to prison for 2 years as a general principle, would have traded places with either of them in about 1/2 second.

[slinky]

I don't get why people can't/won't set up a website and make quite good money from home, be their own boss, work the hours they like. It is still quite an easy thing to do. And no, it would not even have to be a porn website or anything dirty/illegal/pyramidal. :wink:

To put it coldly: because it would be a JOB, and most of the people we are talking about for whatever reason just can not have one of those.

Old 80's joke: "Do you know why so many {insert minority here} are moving to Houston?"

"They heard there are no jobs there".

[SarahG]

It does what my Applied Cost / Benefit Analysis professor always said was the admission that the person had no more valid arguments to make: they needed to "raise the argument to the next highest moral plane" by ignoring the discussion and pointing to the title of the board and using that as an excuse bring in irrelevant issues

But they're not irrelevant issues if you're taking issue to people not knowing "facts not in evidence." Again, go back to the first post that started this thread- there's not a lot of background information to work with there. Its entirely reasonable for people on this forum to assume, based on that first post, that this thread was to be about trans sex workers and trans issues.

Why else would SB start the thread by asking "Is this how some of you girls feel about escorting?" Who do you think SB was asking by stating that? I'll give a hint, there aren't many GG's who post here... he was asking trans people, on a trans board, to comment on their thoughts about escorting. So of course people are going to respond talking about trans sex workers or trans issues, to expect anything else seems to defy logic.

[slinky]

Using Ockham's razor"

"Is this how some of you girls feel about ________?"


Exactly what word comes after "about" in that question?

Let's take the 50% of current top (i.e. at the top of the front page) threads on this board:

1)Islam
2) Swine flu ....
3)View newest post To the black men on the board about the Craigslist killer...
4)Word Association
5) The Sexiest Female BodyBuilders [PICS GALORE]

And instead of making them what they are actually about, say that since they are on this board they MUST actually be about TRANS something.

I never would come here again.

Perhaps I just shouldn't anyway.

[MacShreach]

Using Ockham's razor"

"Is this how some of you girls feel about ________?"


Exactly what word comes after "about" in that question?

Let's take the 50% of current top (i.e. at the top of the front page) threads on this board:

1)Islam
2) Swine flu ....
3)View newest post To the black men on the board about the Craigslist killer...
4)Word Association
5) The Sexiest Female BodyBuilders [PICS GALORE]

And instead of making them what they are actually about, say that since they are on this board they MUST actually be about TRANS something.



The thing about that particular blade is it has two edges. Who on earth would pose a question here phrased "Is this how some of you girls feel about" and expect that this would be answered by, or taken as relevant to, any group OTHER than trans women, given the specific nature of this board?

The only candidates that come to mind are a troll, which the OP is not, in my experience anyway; someone who does not comprehend the nature of HA or the demographic of the people here--nope, don't think so either; or an idiot, which the OP again, is not.

So the fact that the question was posted here, in the way that it was, by an experienced poster, means that any reasonable person would understand it to be directed at trans women who work or have worked in the sex trade and that it was designed to elicit responses based on their personal experiences as trans women, completely irrespective of whether the person who initially made the statement, that was quoted inside the question, was or was not trans.

The women who have responded were therefore quite correct to proceed on the assumption that they were being asked for their views, as trans women, about the sex business, and their responses equally correctly reflected conditions and factors that are specific to their particular situation, as well as, of course, the more general ones that you have mentioned.

I think that's a QED.



I never would come here again.

Perhaps I just shouldn't anyway.


Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but....don't let the door catch you.

Me I'm off to bed.

[slinky]

As usual, you miss the point entirely (qu'elle surprise). The issue is not who is going to be answering, the issue is what is the fucking subject.

And the usual posters gave their usual answer to that question, which is always the same: "ME, ME ME".

But enough about me. Now let's talk about how you feel about me.

Or perhaps you can point out all the posts where trans women who are hookers answered the question in this thread as opposed to answering a question which they felt like, which wasn't the one posted? I count 1 by TSMandy and sort of one by SaraG, but not really.

But what I also count is the very first post by Brenda spouting the usual.... scratch that... TOTALLY PREDICTABLE catch all "you can't know anything because you have to walk a mile in my shoes" bullshit. that's what I find unacceptable. Especially since in this case my shoes are about 1,000 times more worn out than hers on this particular road (which is why someone will come back and try to CHANGE the subject to say "yes, but you're not a trans, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH). And the reality is that hooker burnout has a lot more in common across hetero, homo, trans, whatever.... than hooker burnout has to do with transitioning.

See, we tend to forget around her that all TG's aren't hookers and pron stars. 99.9% of the guys on here have never even spoken to a TG, so all they see is a minute segment of the population of TG's. It's also why you don't see any (well, hardly any) TG's who are not sex workers of one sort or another posting on this site: because the reality is it's not really a ite about transsexuality, it's a site about Tranny Chasing. now, that doesn't make it a "bad" site, an "invalid site" or whatever. But it's just hard to have meaningful conversations about what the reality of anything is when any conversation which could possibly she some light on a subject gets shouted down with that same old tired "you can't know" crap every single time.

[TsVanessa69]

I ran into this and thought it was very heartfelt and sad and wanted to know if you girls that escort feel the same.
Your feedback is appreciated GIRLS.




You could not even begin to fathom wat its like to be a hooker.

Try selling your self to strange men 15 times a week, take care of a family, as if your life to peachy, and then try to maintain a relationship with a man that does not, or worse, does know what you do for a living ad begs you to quit. ( though he has no job and cant even support himself) Yet he scares away your clients because he doesnt want some other man fucking his girl)
meanwhile you are the only one bringng home the bacon)


Try sucking a sick of a man that replusives you to the point of vomit, yet they write reviews about what a fat digsusting pig you are, meanwhile THEY are the ones that hired you in the first place!!

Try having men use you for sex ( though they pay) fuck you. and THEN try to make you quit the business!

Try having to wake up each work morning not knowing if today is "D" day, or if some asshole is going to rip you off. And if he does, try coming home and act as nothing bad has happened to you today

Try being a hooker, and not find yourself at some point ( and you will) hooked on pills, drugs or whatever it takes to get through the day!

Try being a hooker and being a normal, sane, upstanding member person in society.

Try being a hooker and meeting the man you want to spend the rest of your life with, but you cant quit because selling your ass is all you know..but you do love him

Try walking a mile in a hookers shoes,and I promise you, you would rather go barefoot!
Some of this I agree with, some I dont. Seems like this girl let the game control her instead of her controlling the game.
I see it as a game, I as a transexual "hook" mostly because men treat us like an object instead of a person, no matter what our occupation is. Having a 9-5 has not changed that for me. In the workplace, I am a professional, educated, and go beyond my duties. But does that change the fact that men only see transexual, thus "sex object". So yes I'm still gonna charge. When I meet a man who is taking me out in public, dinner and movies, walks on the beach and for ice cream, then I won't charge. But until that day comes, I'm not gonna be bothered unless you are paying me for the use of my body with nothing in return.

[MacShreach]

As usual, you miss the point entirely (qu'elle surprise).



If you're going to attempt to show your superior intellect by making remarks in French, learn to spell it, otherwise your credibility rating may be at risk. :lol:






But enough about me. Now let's talk about how you feel about me.



I have no feelings about you. Why should I? I certainly don't dislike you or anything.




what I also count is the very first post by Brenda spouting the usual.... scratch that... TOTALLY PREDICTABLE catch all "you can't know anything because you have to walk a mile in my shoes" bullshit. that's what I find unacceptable.



Yes, that was what I thought annoyed you. Brenda annoys a lot of people.




Especially since in this case my shoes are about 1,000 times more worn out than hers on this particular road (which is why someone will come back and try to CHANGE the subject to say "yes, but you're not a trans, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH). And the reality is that hooker burnout has a lot more in common across hetero, homo, trans, whatever.... than hooker burnout has to do with transitioning.



I am certainly not arguing with that. The point, however, is that it is totally absurd to get your knickers in a twist because some trans sex workers answer a question in a a way that they feel is relevant to trans sex workers, on a site about trans sex workers, which, as you make clear in your next statement, is what you think this site is (and I agree with you.)




See, we tend to forget around her that all TG's aren't hookers and pron stars. 99.9% of the guys on here have never even spoken to a TG, so all they see is a minute segment of the population of TG's. It's also why you don't see any (well, hardly any) TG's who are not sex workers of one sort or another posting on this site: because the reality is it's not really a ite about transsexuality, it's a site about Tranny Chasing. now, that doesn't make it a "bad" site, an "invalid site" or whatever.


See?

I absolutely agree with all of the above. The sample of transwomen seen here is laughably low and most of the men here have very little clue about transsexual women, far less ever met one. Most men here are just here to satisfy homosexual fantasies that the societies they live in suppress; for these men, transsexual women are a species of penis with what looks like a woman attached. You are absolutely right-- most men here simply don't understand that a) women are not sex objects but people and b) transsexual women (as opposed to crossdressing or transvestite men, who are routinely confused with transsexual women here) are women like any other woman.

We are not arguing about this, and in a way, if one of the schmucks with his drawers round his ankles sees this and suddenly thinks "Whoa, this is about more than satisfying a male erotic fantasy," then that would be a good thing.





But it's just hard to have meaningful conversations about what the reality of anything is when any conversation which could possibly she some light on a subject gets shouted down with that same old tired "you can't know" crap every single time.

It seems to me you have a particular issue with one statement that Brenda made in what I agree was a pretty blunt manner, but that is, um, not so very unusual, and have then gone on to condemn everything else that was said.

Try taking your proposition to extremis-- prevent any trans sex worker answering a question (which you did not pose) in any terms exclusively relevant to trans sex workers, on a site devoted to men's interest in trans sex workers.

I don't think I missed the point.

Now I don't know who you are; you sound like you're a natally female sex worker. If so I have no issues with you or your feelings and I am not trying to diss you or belittle them, or the problems that non-trans sex workers face. Furthermore, if you are a natal woman with thirty years in the sex business, (or for that matter a man with the same experience) you fully deserve the respect that your experience has earned you; and if Brenda knew that when she made her "walk a mile" statement, then it was rude and she owes you an apology.

You're obviously an intelligent and passionate person, so let me make this clear--I am not attacking you. I'm just saying, since you agree that this is a site about trans sex workers, how can you possibly expect that not to be a major influence on the discussion? :shrug

[tsmandy]

And the reality is that hooker burnout has a lot more in common across hetero, homo, trans, whatever.... than hooker burnout has to do with transitioning.



For me personally, I would say this is mostly true, although there are some uniquely tedious aspects of being a trans sex worker that caused me to burnout.

1. So many guys were disappointed that I was castrated and didn't ejaculate all over them. The first couple hundred times it didn't really phase me, but after years of that I started apologizing for my body and wishing I could cum on people (porn has the same effect though). I'm not an ROB and I wanted to please my customers, after a while that really made the job less fun.

2. The gay talk. Over and over. I hate the gay talk. I'm queer, I fuck men and women and I live in a full time same sex relationship with a female. Having to deal with guys gender and sexuality issues really puts a damper on whatever sexual activity followed said discussion. I realize that is a big part of why guys pay TS escorts, and escorts in general have to deal with a lot of emotional revelations, but it is very different than the typical "I'm married and my wife doesn't do me right" discussions that my GG hooker friends deal with. Not all of my clients had to have that discussion, but 80% of them did, and after a while I just felt like I was going to bite the tongue off of the next guy who tried to explain his desires to me.

Still aside from those two exceptions I would say I largely agree with Slinky, that when it comes to burnout the similarities are stronger TS/GG than the differences. When I had my retirement party I was the only TS in a room full of hookers (male and female) and everyone there had a lot of common ground be they dudes that hustled bath-houses or female submissives.

[fred41]

As usual, you miss the point entirely (qu'elle surprise). The issue is not who is going to be answering, the issue is what is the fucking subject.

And the usual posters gave their usual answer to that question, which is always the same: "ME, ME ME".



The sample of transwomen seen here is laughably low and most of the men here have very little clue about transsexual women, far less ever met one. Most men here are just here to satisfy homosexual fantasies that the societies they live in suppress; for these men, transsexual women are a species of penis with what looks like a woman attached. You are absolutely right-- most men here simply don't understand that a) women are not sex objects but people and b) transsexual women (as opposed to crossdressing or transvestite men, who are routinely confused with transsexual women here) are women like any other woman.

You kind of made his point there MacShreach. I love a lot of your posts because they're informative and sometimes right on the money...plus, you're obviously in touch with whatever subject matter you are writing and/or debating about. However, in this particular case Slinky was just pointing out (as part of a broader argument) what type of a site this actually was..and instead of appropriately ending it with your first sentence of the paragraph up there - you had to add your personal "mantra"...yet again.

We all do this of course from time to time...but sometimes we just gotta hold back a bit.

[MacShreach]

You kind of made his point there MacShreach. .

Well I was trying to, actually. I don't disagree with the substance of anything Slinky said. My point I have already made.

But thanks for the support, anyway.

[AishaX]

Furthermore, if you are a natal woman with thirty years in the sex business, (or for that matter a man with the same experience) you fully deserve the respect that your experience has earned you; and if Brenda knew that when she made her "walk a mile" statement, then it was rude and she owes you an apology.


That's just the thing. I did not know that. If I had I would not have wrote that particular statement (which , by the way was not necssarily directed just at slinky's post. ) Heck I was not alone in not knowing all about Slinky and slinky's friend who wrote that. A number of people were sure that it was totally made up. I am sorry that slinky took what I wrote that way. but I am not really sorry I wrote it. Base on what information I had it was the correct way to react.

Oh an by the by. I stopped giving a shit about annoying people a long time ago. When it comes down to it the things about me that annoy people are things I cannot or will not change, nor should I even be ashamed of.

[MacShreach]

Oh an by the by. I stopped giving a shit about annoying people a long time ago.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't look now, but you're preaching to the converted.

[freak]

This just sounds like someone that doesn't like what they are doing but are too lazy to help themselves find something they want to do.
I hear people with the similar complaints about there jobs all day. If you don't like what you are doing find something else to do, if not stop complaining and try to be the best dam hooker out there