How is the Recession treating you?

[justatransgirl]

How is the Recession treating you?

Just checking in to see how everyone is getting along now that the Dow has crashed through 7,000 and the S&P is poised for the 600's and unemployment is hitting double digits.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[ls1290]

401K is down about $35K, the house is worth $25K less, funding at work for next year looks very bad. Thanks for asking. Would you like to use salt next time?

[gas14]

down 310k in the market my building is down 20% my apartment in the city last year worth 2.1 now worth 1.7 and if i wanted couldnt sell it, business is down everything sucks,

[jaycanuck]

Although the Canadian economy has been keeping semi-stable we are starting to feel the pinch. I was laid off last year...fortunately I've been able to do freelance to keep afloat.

[trish]

Just renewed my contract for next year, whew! Otherwise, my stocks lost two thirds their value over the last seven months (fortunately, I didn't really have a lot invested). A trip to the grocery costs nearly twice as much as it used to. Of course you all know that. At least gasoline is temporarily down from last summer's $4/gal.

I'm consider myself pretty lucky so far (knocking on wood). I know people who lost their jobs and have payments to make on cards, cars and houses.

[russtafa]

i cant sell my property for the price i want

[flabbybody]

my 401(k) lost half its value

re-discovering McDonald's value meal choices

[SugaSweet]

I was more or less forced to take a retirement after 26 years.It was four years earlier than the standard requirement for retiring.At (almost) age 51,I have a Federal Civil Service pension and my home is paid for.I have been and will continue to cut what little debt I have down to zero.Due to the double D's(diabetes and depression).I am going to wait a while,and take a look at some job options.I began life wanting to be a teacher and had close to the college credits needed to graduate when the insane Postal Service called me in.I spent 26 years at a job I hated to various degrees,but I do have a pension and my health benefits.Something to be thankful for these days.
Here someone can live OK off what I have coming in monthly(about 3,000).I realize that may be a very weak income in other markets.I have became more of a hermit,as I go to the grocery once a week,and I seldom eat out anymore.Like everyone else,trying to save anywhere I can.

[baileyandkc]

yep, IRA mutual funds getting hammered..luckily, paid off my house in 10 years and no debt...
Money set aside for emergencies too but it would be great if my IRA retirement funds will have some value in the future!

Guess I work till I'm 90!

[rvince]

I lost "only" a couple thousand $ in stocks/ETFs and I'm _VERY_ glad I invested eavily on gold last summer :-)
But the whole thing isn't over yet...

[dj4monie]

Little Debt, Recession proof job (not a career), very little bills. Have cash, pulled out of the market (Its Vegas not investing...).

I shall be fine, will change jobs as soon as the market starts an up tick (should be later this year).

[BeardedOne]

So far, the crappy economy (Aside from sucking the life out of my 401k) has actually helped me somewhat in that the banks/mortgage companies are more willing to negotiate.

Except for blips in the house payments caused by the insane policies that you have to miss payments before the bank will help you to make payments (Yah, you read that right), my credit is spotless.

In a couple of months I expect I'll be in a position to sit on the sidelines and watch other people bleed for awhile. That will be nice, for a change.

[justatransgirl]

down 310k in the market my building is down 20% my apartment in the city last year worth 2.1 now worth 1.7 and if i wanted couldnt sell it, business is down everything sucks,

1.7 left - well you're still a contender sweetie. You aren't looking for a GF or two are you? It just so happens that we are going to need a place to live soon. Your apartment sounds suitable.

She giggles...

The condo we've rented for the past 3 1/2 years went to the bank last week. I wasn't about to buy it for what they wanted - which was about double what it's worth. Not my fault they made a bad loan.

So we are now officially squatters. When I call the bank nobody is interested in talking to me and we don't know who to pay even if I was so inclined. So fk 'em.

Hugs to all who are suffering,
TS Jamie :-)

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Well we own our house I have some saved. The only debt I have right now is my Jeep payment. As for Work it sucks The Company I work for is hovering on the stock market at .55 cents a share and has a "put" against her coming due next month. Going to be spending this summer working in my Gardens and doing some work to my property in rural WV to get ready in case we decide things here become rather unsettling.

[MrF]

Still have my job, thankfully, but no pay raise this year, yet inflation feels like 10%/yr. Nosediving 401k. What's the stock market going to do ? Can't go to zero ... Most likely it will bounce back in the ~20 years before I retire.

[Fox]

I ain't too 'shame to admit that I'm broke and jobless right now. The career field I want to break into is supposed to be recession proof which sounds good for later on, but I need work now.

[flabbybody]

WDF, another stock market wipeout today. is it ever gonna end?

I'm thinking McDonald's is way too expensive,
anyone have Alpo coupons ?

[justatransgirl]

Yeah - FB - tomorrow and the rest of the week will tell a lot about where we are headed. If it goes down more we could be looking at 5,000.

I heard somebody talking 3/3 - that is to say a 3,000 Dow and $3,000 gold.

Here's the problem.
For 40 years we have ignored the renewable energy problems.
For 20 years we have exported all our manufacturing jobs overseas.
For 10 years we have exported all our MONEY to China.
For 5 years we exported our remaining tech jobs to India.
And the jobs that were left were taken by illegal aliens.
Then we dragged out two wars for nearly a decade instead of getting the job done and moving on.

My friends there is nothing left. We cannot survive as a nation when everyone works at Wal-Mart or for the government. When Citi is at a dollar, when GM is going bankrupt. I hope things don't continue downhill, and I'm not a doom sayer, but I see a death spiral.

Here's what happened in layman's terms for those without economic degrees.

California, Vegas, and Florida sold houses to people who couldn't afford them. Then the interest went up. Everyone bailed on their loan. Meanwhile the banks had been selling the mortgages into giant funds that investors in turn bought pieces of, until nobody knew who owned what anymore. Then the value of the property dropped, causing the funds to fail, followed by the banks.

Then everyone in the rest of the country heard there was a housing crisis, so they stopped buying junk from China - which in turn stopped buying oil from Russia. And now shipments into the port of LA are down 20% (that's 1 ship out of 5) so the stores are closing and laying off.

So now those people are getting foreclosed on and losing their homes. They aren't buying anything, so less is made, and more people get fired around the world.

Then Obama spends trillions on earmarks and bailing out the ultra-rich on the back of the future.

And the death sprial continues. The question is how far will it go, and could the fundmental basis of the US Government be at risk?

Just some food for thought.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[dskreet2]

In 2003, started plan to pay-off all my credit cards. Paid off my one MAJOR credit card in December 2008, plus two store cards early in 2008. Have only home payment, cell phone and monthly food & tranportation costs to & from work now. I'm starting to SAVE, and I already see promising results of my plan to be debt free. I am thankful it all worked out before everything crashed. My total monthly expenses are now only 25 percent of my income. That is why I am getting ready to TRAVEL the WORLD. My fun during these last 6 years has been so restrained, I'm now ready to get Buck Wild!!! (within reason)

[envivision]

I say let's invade Canada, kick their ass and take their gas. No offense JayCanuck.

Seriously now, as long as JP is charging $1500 a visit, I say the economy is pretty good.

[flabbybody]

I dunno Jamie.
when I started my first full time job 20 years ago they told me to save my money and invest it in the stock market for my golden years. I actually did that and lived kinda frugal

what a bag of total bullshit that turned out to be. I feel like I got motherfukin robbed. worse than getting held up in a liquor store

but who are the criminals and are they ever going to be held accountable?

[thatguywv]

Actualy in the coal mines, we are still looking for workers. 60k is not bad for a job in a recession.

[thx1138]

@Flabbybody: you should have invested in US treasuries. They gave a lousy rate of return but survive nicely in a depression. The companies you invested in (assuming they survive) will be worth more in 2-3 years. Criminals: George Bush and Alan Greenspan and no, they won't be punished. Did I mention Chuck Prince?

[kalina]

Argh! You guys shouldn't have made me look at my 401k. I already knew my stocks were down, esp BRK.B. Grrrr!!!

[BrendaQG]

Right now I am in a place where I depend on student aid (loans, and grants...mostly loans though). The recession has done two things....

It lowered the interest rates on my student loans. :-)

It caused my bank, Citi, to go to pot. They reduced my credit line to zero, but technically did not close the account. I paid at least the minimum or paid it off in full every month. I might as well have kept my cash. :-?

So it has made it harder for me to get new loans, but made it easier to pay on the loans I have... It could be worse. :-) (i.e. suppose the dow went to 1000 or less , every publicly traded company in the world would go under. It would be the economic equivalent of a neutron bomb.)

[justatransgirl]

Yeah FB - that sucks. Too many people believe the hype about the stock market. And yes, it's true that OVER TIME the stock market has historically done well.

But if you look at the Dow charts from inception you will see periods where it was flat for 15-20 years, and of course the recent huge ups and downs in 2000-2003 and 2006 to present.

"They" tell you to invest for the "long term." Well, people who are 50 or 70 don't have "long term." What is the point of investing for the long term if you never get to enjoy the money? Is it just so you can survive after social security fails?

The problem is that:
1) For 40 years we continued to expand our reliance on oil
2) For 20 years we exported all our manufacturing jobs overseas
3) For 10 years we've been on a buying spree from China
4) For 5 years we exported our remaining tech jobs to India
5) Now we are paying the price - 7/11 clerks cannot afford $400,000 houses.

There is nothing left but stock speculation - and you can see where that's gotten us.

Do I have an answer? Not really.

1) Buy rental real estate - people always need a place to live.
2) Once the market stabilizes buy an index fund that tracks the S&P 500.
3) Buy an oil ETF (index fund that trades on oil futures) - one given is that oil is unlikely to go down, and if it does go down it won't be very far.
4) Once things start stabilizing buy into a European and Asian index fund. I'm just beginning to study this area - but it seems to me the Obama socialization is going to cause the dollar to tank. At some point foreign stocks should out perform US markets.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[justatransgirl]

Brenda - you may be more right than you know. I'm hearing people talk of "3-3." That's a 3000 Dow and $3,000 gold.

I hope it doesn't get to that point, as it won't take a 1000 Dow - 3,000 could collapse the government and the world economy.

What Citi is doing to your credit is BS. That should be illegal. It's a good reason to hold multiple credit cards. The zero credit line will hurt your credit. You need to close the account and be sure it shows "closed by consumer" on the credit reports.

We need serious reform on student loans. I know people with over $100,000 in student loans and no way to ever pay it back.

Grants are unstable. My partner Jessica just lost $6,000 in student grant money, and may lose her Cal-Grant too thanks to the CA Governor. On the positive side she was just offered a grant funded research position at the University, and fortunately we are able to afford her tuition even if all her grants dry up, but it will cost many people their education. And that is wrong.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[Nauty_lady_bug]

After studying the trading of currency, it’s funny how that you will discover that the: “Fears of depreciation becomes self-fulfilling prophecies”
What does this mean?
Your personal fears are driving this crash even further. Granted the markets are, or rather were overvalued because of failure to see intrinsic real values, meaning the real value of a stock. Over paying or under paying for stock. In this case, we are now undervaluing most companies. The DOW is a trader’s perspective, the shifting of one equity security to another, not a capital financier’s perspective (e.g. an IPO or the issuing of new stocks). This fear driven economy is now going to make it very difficult to raise future capital for corporations, which will cause the economy to dip even further.
If people would just stop freaking out for a minute, and we fixed the home loan mess this would be over quickly. I understand that most people are very angry that people bought homes that they could not afford, but we need to just get over it and just fix the problem.
If you would like further evidence of my theory, just look at the price of a barrel of oil last summer. Speculators had driven the cost to near peak of $150 a barrel, with a speculators forecasting prices of $200-$250. There were NO supply and demand issues to support the aggressive price climb, just pure speculation. Today oil is about $45 dollars a barrel and in a health economy, forecasted at $65 - $70.
I understand that many people lost money on their 401Ks and/or mutual funds, but if you understand long term investing and variable deviation of time and money, then it’s truly too soon to tell if you actual lost any “Real money.” Let me explain with this example:

I invested $1000 dollars in the year 2000…Time passes…Its now year 2008, your investment is valued at $2,200, ….After the crash of 2008, its now $1,200…Aww man, $&!%, I lost a $1000 dollars of my money on the markets. “This sucks, America is failing”
Wait! You still gained a $200 return on your investment…
Now, if were to just wait and ride out the economic storm, your investments should regain their theoretical loses.

Finally, if you’re mad at corporate America, remember shareholders allocate decision-making authority to the managers. The Board of Directors, who are voted on by YOU the stockholders, are the ones who hires the management.
Hmmm, just think about it-

[Odelay]

Finally, if you’re mad at corporate America, remember shareholders allocate decision-making authority to the managers. The Board of Directors, who are voted on by YOU the stockholders, are the ones who hires the management.
More aggressive shareholder management of corporations is coming. Executives and Board members are gonna be left going "Huh, what, uhh... I thought you guys were supposed sit back and be silent."

And the same folks who abhor labor unions will be joining shareholder unions so they can combine their voting power and really put the hurt on management.

It's coming.

[the3ra]

It wasn't just homeowners buying houses they could barely afford that caused all this.

Companies like AIG promised to pay loans that went bad. They essentially did the same thing dumb homeowners did; promise to pay more than they could afford.

[justatransgirl]

Hey, some great comments!

I tend to agree with you Nauty lady. I feel the media has fanned the flames - and now the fire is red hot and blazing.

I tend to check the overall economy by how many new cars I see on the road. I know it's not scientific. But lately I see very few, even in ritzy Newport Beach - where in good times "everyone" it seems has a new Mercedes. (Which is leased and two payments behind, while the owner figures out a new stock swindle...)

And didn't anybody in American business go to bible school and study the part about putting wheat away for a famine? Why are all these companies that have made billions over the years crying? Where is their fall back money?

Oh. I forgot they gave it all to the CEO's.

LOL,
TS Jamie :-)

[jjhill]

I been bless to get promoted twice during it, but I'm not making nearly as much as I would if it wasn't a recession.

But for those of yall less lucky, keep ya head up. In the words of Pac
"Even tho we're broke for the moment we'll be balling again"

[Shining Star]

"AIG promised to pay loans that went bad. They essentially did the same thing dumb homeowners did; promise to pay more than they could afford."

No, that is not what happened with AIG.

AIG is an insurance company and it issued "credit default swaps" on many types of investments, including mortgages.

A credit default swap is just what the name implies, someone, in this case AIG, issued insurance to pay against the value of something (in most cases mortgages), should the holder of said instrument default (not pay).

The whole thing is sort of like the insurance credit card companies try to get card holders to take out. Such insurance promises to l pay off their balance (under certian circumstances), if the card holder cannot.

Banks, brokerage firms and others that made or held mortgages and other loans took out credit default swaps to cover their bases should payments not be made.

With AIG as mortgages, credit cards and other loans began going into default, they were bound by contract to pay out insurance claims.

All insurance companies work pretty much the same way. They take in funds via premiums and either invest or otherwise hold enough funds in reserves to pay out claims. When the number of claims begins to exceed funds, that is when problems begin.

The later is what is happening to AIG. The credit default market is about one to two trillion dollars (or more), and AIG simply does not have the funds. To prevent what would normally occur, that is bankruptcy, the United States government is loaning/back stopping AIG so it can unwind it's business in a orderly fashion.

Aside from the credit default swap business, AIG other products, and such are actually doing quite well.

[flabbybody]

AIG got away with selling billions of dollars worth of credit default swaps because the product didn't have the word insurance in it and thereby avoided the vast Federal and New York State regulations that protect consumers from insurance fraud. AIG was fully aware they didn't have nearly enough cash to sustain even a small uptick in foreclosure rates let alone a spiraling crash in property values.

They used legalese bullshit to disguise these contracts from insurance regulations. These people were fully aware of the fraud they were perpertrating but none are in jail. Maybe the worse part of today's crisis is how its exposed the US justice system for the scam that it is. If you're a wealthy, white, so-called educated person you can commit just about any crime with no chance of prison

[Oli]

Not billions Flabby, Trillions!

[flabbybody]

mind boggling

[russtafa]

some people should of been hung ,drawn,and qautered for this as a lession to others not to get to greedy and id happly do the job

[russtafa]

some people should of been hung ,drawn,and qautered for this as a lession to others not to get to greedy and id happly do the job

[MrF]

For those technically inclined but nonexpert in finance -- I can recommend a book called "The Trillion Dollar Meltdown" by Charles Morris, which explains succinctly what went wrong, including all the clever financial tricks like CDOs, credit default swaps, etc. The author also recommends some specific regulatory reform. Fascinating stuff.

A revised edition was published in Feb, entitled "The Two Trillion Dollar Meltdown". So, it went up a factor of two in a year ! I'm guessing next year it will be 5 trillion.

Question: Is massive government deficit spending the way out ? Without being political, I'd say no. Looks more like a death spiral. Hope I'm wrong.

[BrendaQG]

some people should of been hung ,drawn,and qautered for this as a lession to others not to get to greedy and id happly do the job

Do you know what the wisest lawgiver did with such people. Those who comitted such egregious or repeated theft as a way of life got their right hand chopped off. Would that this would happen to Bernie Madeoff (that's not a error, that should be his real name he made off with Billions.).

[sugdaddie69]

My job like others is nowhere near being in the red or going under.But they NOW like to threaten us with the economy,and unemployment rate.How grateful we should be.Bunch of bullshit.

[JonnyT]

recession brings great opportunity to many. great pain to others. which are you? i've started a business that saves small and medium businesses money that may allow them to KEEP or even hire people rather than laying people off. i may help to save someone's job. that feels good. :D

[Self_jones]

shit just got laid off today!!!!!!!!! fuck me side ways !!!

[CORVETTEDUDE]

I'm in the car business, does that give anyone a clue??? And a General Motors dealer, at that.

[russtafa]

id love to chop these wankers up and id take pleasure in it

[justatransgirl]

Hey C-dude nice to see you here. :-)

I was going to say, things aren't looking so good for GM. But I'm sure somebody will buy the Corvette business if it goes under.

I'm afraid to buy anything. I read today even Toyota is anticipating parts shortages as suppliers run out of money.

I guess we will all be driving Chinese cars soon. Wait - does China even make cars? I guess they will soon... Chevrolet.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)