do ts's ever turn back n go back to living as a male?

[LilWyte]

ight i know that is a really lame ass question lol but im really curious bout that....

[alpha2117]

Yes.

In terms of well known girls Lisa Lawer a Brazilian girl who did a lot of work with females went back to being a boy and got married.

[Bob's Tgirls]

Two of my models have, but I won't say who for their privacy.

[Ts CinthyaNY]

I wouldn't , not in a million years... Then ones who have done that, not sure what they look like now( probably a creepy straight man looking).

If someone so that at certain stage of the transition in these days, it bc this particular TS's weren't a true Transgender woman. Do not really see the point to go trough all the ups and downs in the transition to be back to "normal".

Love

Cinthya...

[DL_NL]

In your case, it would be a big loss...

[phobun]

ight i know that is a really lame ass question lol but im really curious bout that....
Anyone who does is not a real TS.

[Shining Star]

ight i know that is a really lame ass question lol but im really curious bout that....
Anyone who does is not a real TS.
Just what makes you such a qualified expert to make such a statement?

In the purest sense, and according to medical terms, transgender persons are those whom are uncomfortable with their birth gender and wish (sometimes to extreme measures), to alter their person to the gender they identify with.

However in case you have never heard of the phrase, "dreams/goals deferred" there are transgender persons for a whole host of reasons either "go back" into their birth gender roles either fully or partially.

Am not speaking of gay men, drag queens, and others who don a frock, a wig and some makeup because they have found TS hoes can make more money than a male, but transgender persons who given their druthers would love to live as whatever gender they are comfortable with, but also realise for a host of reasons it just is not possible.

One such reason is simply the cost. Not everyone is willing to engage in criminal behaviour to come up with the vast sums for the SRS, not to mention hormones, plastic surgery and so forth (assuming some sort of state sponsored medical care does not pay). This is often true of those working and or living as males and making a very good living.

Some look at the life a majority of trannies live, and decide they are better off where they are, or perhaps "dressing" or some other "outlet",which allows them to keep up the best of both worlds.

The idea that one MUST have the surgery and such to be a true TS is SOOOOOOO "Dr. Benjamin" and quite out dated. Just look at the large numbers of "non-op" transgender persons who are quite happy to live their lives as neither as beast nor fowl.

Why return to "boys clothes"? Face it, this world is still pretty much a man's world. Women on average (in the USA), still earn about seventy-five cents to each dollar a man earns. While gay males, especially white gay males have made great strides the past decade, transgender rights are spotty at best. So if one is sitting on the fence, looking at both sides of the garden, the "male" side may seem the more attractive option.

Aside from societal pressures, consider this: if one is a six foot two jock in a frock, you are going to be a six foot to post-op jockish looking , TS in a frock. While those with the highest level of gender discomfort will be willing to live out their lives post op in such a state, there are some whom are more practical.

Quite honestly the idea of chasers or such deciding who is or is not a "true" TS is rather off putting. By and large most men who are into trannies do so purely for sexual and or fetish reasons. What happens to them otherwise means little or nothing to them, long as there is a good steady supply to choose from.

SS

[ef9hatchman]

I wouldn't , not in a million years... Then ones who have done that, not sure what they look like now( probably a creepy straight man looking).

If someone so that at certain stage of the transition in these days, it bc this particular TS's weren't a true Transgender woman. Do not really see the point to go trough all the ups and downs in the transition to be back to "normal".

Love

Cinthya...
Id be mad if you even thought of being a MALE..It would be a Loss on everyones part. :lol:

[Jericho]

Quite honestly the idea of chasers or such deciding who is or is not a "true" TS is rather off putting.

Sadly, it's not just chasers that make those kind of sweeping pronouncements.

[Shining Star]

Should also like to point out another matter complicating things:

That is a vast majority of men into trannies prefer a "cock in a frock", large and fully operational, if you please.

Therefore anyone contemplating full SRS has to weigh the very real option of being unwanted by "straight" men or men into trannies.

Amoung men into pre-op trannies, there is a range that goes from whatever is on offer (ie a six foot muscular black buck in a mini-skirt , wig and high heels), to a petite, fully passable Asian TS. Don't laugh about the former example either; there was a "trannie" hoe working the Meatpacking District of NYC, who fit that bill to a T. Girlfriend not only worked those streets, "she" was cleaning up and had cars lined up like planes at JFK during a bad snowstorm.

SS

[Justawannabe]

Have to agree with Shining Star here... the concept of a true TS being someone who will do 'anything' to achieve the desired gender is just not a good standard. One of the measures used against trans folks of all stripes is how few trans folks go on to lead fully transitioned lives.

We need to remember that trans is just one slice of a person. It's a very important slice, but it is just one aspect of their lives. If you have enough other pressures, fully transitioning (or staying transitioned) may not be the best answer.

Right now they are using the limited number of folks who fully transition as an excuse to push therapies that 'correct' folks who would transition rather than recognizing that the majority of folks who have the condition will not transition due to societal, family or economic pressures.

I personally know at least two folks who have pursued their transition just enough to not feel horrid when at home in the shower. They know they could not be fully successful in the real world as a trans person, and fear poverty and being banished from society more than the discomfort of boy clothes to cover their changes.

Dr Phil had a couple of shows on dealing with young folks transitioning... and repeatedly quoted that only 15% of folks who show this condition young go on to live trans lives. My mom looked at me and said 'see, only 15% really have this disease.'

I had to point out that the number wouldn't include the folks who suicide, crossdress (without the sexual component so often derided) and/or live through fantasy lives. It wouldn't include folks who live in areas where there is no help or information available about the condition.

Anyway... just wish we wouldn't continue to disown someone from the family who does not charge down the lane of full surgical transition at any cost. Some of those who don't are no less trans, they just have other things in their life as important at that time.

Most trans folks don't transition when young... because their family or financial situation don't allow it. We don't look at those folks as non-trans because they wait until their finances or family situation allow it. Why do we look at adults with all their pressures and say 'if you were really TS you'd have transitioned by now'. Do they not have financial and family pressures? Can they not plan their life to be who they need to be when they feel it best?

Sigh...

[steviedresses]

The vast majority of the 6.7 billion people on the planet are trans... At least to some degree. The sexual being in all of us makes us wonder what it would be like to be the other sex. Obviously some more than others.

My wife has penis envy. She won't admit it but I know she has it. She just loves the fact that she can grab my junk and play with it (Trust me, I don't mind!) Just the way she is facinated by my manhood makes me think she has male tendencies. I on the other had have many female traits and I am insanely jealous of females. Mainly because they can express their femine side and I can't. At least not in public.

So my wife and I are a pretty good match. She's a little butch, I am a little sissie... (No. Not little in the physical sense, I can just act like a woman at times.)

Anyway the fact the Lisa Lawyer started male, then lived as a transgendered, and then reverted back to living as a male does not
make him any less transgendered. It just means he has found he is more comfortable living as a man.

I sometimes wonder if I could live as a woman if I would lose my fascination of becoming a woman. I have a continuing fantasy where I get some horrible disease and the doctors have to remove my penis and testicles to save my life. Then I could transition and I could say to any man, 'Yea, what would you do if you lost your dick!'

Oh god. I'm just rambling on now.

[phobun]

Lots of gay men in drag, queens, fetishistic transvestites, crossdressers and others living from one orgasm to the next want to call themselves transsexual.

But real transsexuals are not defined by the hangers-on or the lowest common denominators.

[steviedresses]

Ok. Define Real Transsexual.

Do you mean a man or woman who has SRS to 'become' the other sex? Or how about a man or woman who lives as the other sex but does not have SRS.

Then what about the man who starts hormones but has to live as a man in order to earn a living. So at home she is a woman, and at work he is a man.

There is no Real Transsexual. There are just degrees of how far each transgendered person transtitions in order to feel comfortable with themselves.

Is Allana Star any less transgender than Danille Foxx? How about Krista Coxx? Far be it from me to make these judgement calls.

[phobun]

Panties in a bunch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yB7J7DYi6M

[TsJANIRA]

I know a few who had . Some who transition back sort to speak, do so, beacuse they have had enough being a "Ts" and feel that there is no happiness in it for them and see it as a dead end, they got tired of escorting , and saw that there was nothing else to being a Ts other than what work ow etc... and their asperations , or expectaitions were never met, there for they turn back. Being a Ts is never a easy Journey , and there is much much much more to it than the usual Escorting , surgeries, fashion, clubbing what have you.. Your life is inyour hands what you do how you live is all on you , yo can use certains avenues to achieve what you may.

[Deezie187]

I wouldn't , not in a million years... Then ones who have done that, not sure what they look like now( probably a creepy straight man looking).

If someone so that at certain stage of the transition in these days, it bc this particular TS's weren't a true Transgender woman. Do not really see the point to go trough all the ups and downs in the transition to be back to "normal".

Love

Cinthya...
Id be pissed if yo fine ass did

[BrendaQG]

I wouldn't , not in a million years... Then ones who have done that, not sure what they look like now( probably a creepy straight man looking).

If someone so that at certain stage of the transition in these days, it bc this particular TS's weren't a true Transgender woman. Do not really see the point to go trough all the ups and downs in the transition to be back to "normal".

Love

Cinthya...

Really. Well it depends on what your goals in life are. Are they goals that being a transsexual woman could concieveably make infinitely harder, or even physically dangerous. There are some things that society, even among TS/TG people do not understand "true transgender women" doing. Consider the following.

This is a picture of me when I was maybe 7-9 years old. I don't recall precisely. This was an exhibit at the Dusabel Musem of African American History, all about what Black kids wanted to be when they grew up.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/Zahara_TS/mylifeinscience.jpg

I knew from at least that young and I know though cannot prove much younger what I wanted to be, what I wished I was.

I'll save you my life's story. Let's just say I got through highschool by dressing on the androgynous side of female, with the tacit support of my family and the outright hostility of the administrators. I was one of two kids they labeled "behaviorally disordered" to graduate from that place for a decade or so. I went to community college as a woman. No stress there since I was still in my familliar surroundings. Then I went to NIU in dekalb. Back in 2000 they would not let a out transwoman live in the female dorms. They also required that you live in the dorms for your first year. So I was stuck in male dorms looking the way I did, better than I do now just on account of physical fitness. I had to travel into the city which was not easy to say the least if I wanted to get my hands on hormones. I tried to get help from their psych department. They were no help. Instead of hormones I was actually prescribed prozac to deal with the depression I felt on account of my situation there. That was about 3/4 of the way through the first year and i said screw it and went back to living as a male. It took time for my body to change enough for people to notice anything. Senior year one female professor noted for the small class we were in "Well it seems Mr. Farmer has finally found his oats. On to quantum mechanics." The other students looked around like what the fuck did she just say.

My grades suffered, I was kicked out for low GPA, but I managed to come back and graduate. I needed to go to graduate school so stayed on for a year taking graduate work trying to get a better transcript for my applications. Then I went to UIC and did the same for a while. Being back in the city, and back where I knew my way around I was able to come back to living as a woman. In total I ended up being 4.5 years of living as a man. Including a year of my body changing off hormones, and a part of a year on hormones before I came back out as transsexual.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/Zahara_TS/posingsmaller.jpg

Here is how I look now. For all of the trouble I went through to do it I am a transsexual, I am a woman, I am a scientist (physicist to be precise). I took this picture for my physics website in a experimental particle physics course. This is about a year old now, but I look basically the same.

Now are you going to sit up here and tell me that because I did what had to be done, in order to be what I wanted to be. That I am not a true transsexual?

[peggygee]

Few are chosen, and even fewer make it to the very end, or the
culmination of their dreams.

As many have pointed out many women de-transition for a variety of
reasons.

Then too the journey and destination is different for each woman. There
are many variables: when does she start, what is the foundation that she
starts from, and that can encompass her genetics, her family
relationships, employment ramifications, etc.

She must also take into account where she wants to end up at. Each
woman will have different surgical goals. Some are content to do HRT,
have no body modification and don't desire GRS.

For me, I wanted the total package. I did HRT. I have had surgery from
head to toe, including GRS.

I also wanted to be mainstream, to assimilate. I didn't aspire to be a
transsexual, be it pre or post. I just wanted to be a regular woman.

For me, detransitioning was never an option.

I literally would have preferred to die.

Yes it was rough to accomplish all of my goals, and of course there are
many more things that I strive for in life. But in terms of my gender
identity and transition, that was a core issue, and one that I was very
committed to, and there was not going to be anyway that it was not
going to come to fruition for me.

Finally, this is the Dr. Harry S. Benjamin's Gender Disorientation Scale,
and is useful in categorizing different degrees of gender dysphoria. It
doesn't have to be followed rigidly, as there may be some deviation or
overlap that individuals may see in themselves or others:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/benjamin.jpg

Type One: Transvestite (Pseudo)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Could get occasional kick
out of dressing. Normal male life.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Hetero, bi, or homosexual. Dressing
and -- more --exchange may occur in masturbation fantasies mainly.
May enjoy TV literature only.
Kinsey Scale: 0-6
Conversion Operation: Not considered in reality.
Estrogen Medication: Not interested or indicated.
Psychotherapy: Not wanted and unnecessary.
Remarks: Interests in dressing is only sporadic.

Type Two: Transvestism (Fetishistic)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Dressing periodically or
part of the time. Dresses underneath male clothes.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual. Rarely bisexual.
Masturbation with fetish. Guilt feelings. Purges and relapses.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Rejected
Estrogen Medication: Rarely interested. Occasionally useful to reduce
libido. Psychotherapy: May be successful (in a favorable environment.)
Remarks: May imitate double (masculine and feminine) personality with
male and female names.

Type Three: Transvestism (True)
Gender Feeling: Masculine (but with less conviction.)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses constantly or as often as
possible. May live and be accepted as woman. May dress underneath
male clothes, if no other chance.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual, except when dressed.
Dressing gives sexual satisfaction with relief of gender discomfort. May
purge and relapse.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Actually rejected, but idea can be attractive.
Estrogen Medication: Attractive as an experiment. Can be helpful
emotionally Psychotherapy: If attempted is usually not successful as
to cure.
Remarks: May assume double personality. Trend toward transsexualism.

Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with
insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman;
sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-
erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children. Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not
admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.

Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible.
Insufficient relief from dressing. Sex Object Choice and Sex Life:
Libido low. Asexual auto-erotic, or passive homosexual activity. May
have been married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 4-6
Conversion Operation: Requested and usually indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Needed as substitute for or preliminary to operation.
Psychotherapy: Rejected. Useless as to cure. Permissive psychological guidance.
Remarks: Operation hoped for and worked for. Often attained.

Type Six: True Transsexual (high intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine. Total psycho-sexual inversion.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: May live and work as a woman. Dressing
gives insufficient relief. Gender discomfort intense.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Intensely desires relations with normal
male as female if young. May have been married and have children, by using fantasies in intercourse.
Kinsey Scale: 6
Conversion Operation: Urgently requested and usually attained. Indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Required for partial relief.
Psychotherapy: Psychological guidance or psychotherapy for symptomaticrelief only.
Remarks: Despises his male sex organs. Danger of suicide or self-mutilation, if too long frustrated

Source: http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html

____________

[peggygee]

Double post. :oops:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/nelson-haha.gif

[BrendaQG]

I'd give myself a 5.5 on that scale.

[LilWyte]

The vast majority of the 6.7 billion people on the planet are trans... At least to some degree. The sexual being in all of us makes us wonder what it would be like to be the other sex. Obviously some more than others.

My wife has penis envy. She won't admit it but I know she has it. She just loves the fact that she can grab my junk and play with it (Trust me, I don't mind!) Just the way she is facinated by my manhood makes me think she has male tendencies. I on the other had have many female traits and I am insanely jealous of females. Mainly because they can express their femine side and I can't. At least not in public.

So my wife and I are a pretty good match. She's a little butch, I am a little sissie... (No. Not little in the physical sense, I can just act like a woman at times.)

Anyway the fact the Lisa Lawyer started male, then lived as a transgendered, and then reverted back to living as a male does not
make him any less transgendered. It just means he has found he is more comfortable living as a man.

I sometimes wonder if I could live as a woman if I would lose my fascination of becoming a woman. I have a continuing fantasy where I get some horrible disease and the doctors have to remove my penis and testicles to save my life. Then I could transition and I could say to any man, 'Yea, what would you do if you lost your dick!'

Oh god. I'm just rambling on now.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2rc7w43.gif

[Tiffany Anne]

_

Thanks for the post Peggy.. Very interesting!

[Merkurie]

How many go back we may never know. There are so many trans people who are in denial living as their birth gender or who've been convinced that they are gay ( nothing wrong with that just inaccurate) I think alot depends on the support you getalong the way.

We live in a very gender binary world in the US people act as if your gender is their business and the pressure to conform is relentless.

[justatransgirl]

Very informative post Peggygee, thank you.

Shhh... this is a secret so don't go telling everybody...

But, I heard a rumor that DANIELLE FOXX is bowing to social pressure from all the HA boys and is going to undergo an experimental procedure to grow her penis back so you boys can have the best of both worlds and will finally shut up about it. It will be revealed in her upcoming video "Danielle Does Dallas..."

Giggles,
TS Jamie :-)


PS - Danielle - XOXOXO :-)

[JelenaCD]

i know many will disagree yet the fact is that transgender life is a dead end , the older you get the less it makes sense ,

[slinky]

Just like any other psychological issue, people sometimes sublimate one thing into another. In the instant case, you have people who think that their issue is one of being transgendered, but it is actually something else. And since so much of the "treatment" (at least from what I see in the NY community) is largely "self medicated", it's easy to see how someone, without professional/proper guidance, could get fairly far along in transitioning before they realized that they were headed down the wrong road and were "solving" a problem that wasn't the one they had.

Again, in NY, someone who felt like it could get right up to the point of full SRS without ever having any professional diagnosis done simply by buying hormones underground, getting pumped from various unlicensed sources, etc. I know this is an unpopular theory, but for whatever portion of the population actually do fall under the "Gender narcissim" aspect, it isn't too hard to imagine de-transitioning at some time. there are certainly a number of well documented cases of what could be described as "buyer's remorse" after undergoing full SRS and realizing that it didn't solve any of their problems.

[phobun]

i know many will disagree yet the fact is that transgender life is a dead end , the older you get the less it makes sense ,
Were you one of those CDs who fantasized about being TS?
Then, no surprise it was a dead end for you.
You sound like South Park's Mrs. Garrison in "Eek! A Penis!"
Maybe all you ever needed was Mr. Slave's cock?

[irongoddess]

a ts feels like a woman and want to also look like a lady so wouldn`t even think about it about going back.
When i was 5 years old i knew i wasn`t a boy,playing with dolls etc and i`m sure lots of other transexuals were that same.I started taking female hormones when i was 13 yrs old and thank god i did start to live my life as a lady so young,i had lots of supports from my family,so i wouldn`t have know how i would have looked as a man.Taking hormones so young,stopped from growing facial hair,voice is always been feminine,etc
Being ts is not a choice so a ts would never go back in being man.The people that go back are just confused guys.

[Merkurie]

Males in our western society live in such a small box of acceptable gender expression I think it is impossible to state definatively who is or is not "confused"and about what.

Listening to some people's impression of being TS its like listening to a male chauvinist dictate what a woman's role is. The only person who can determine who is or is not a "woman" or a "man" is that person themself. If we are lucky in the comming years kids will be able to grow up and be themselves without guilt, threats, violelence, shame, and religious condemnation.

[justatransgirl]

-------------

[Merkurie]

For instance, I see alot of troubled families everyday, and all the time when a small boy 3-5 yrs old cries or shows emothion or seeks a hug or anything the "daddy" will yell at him to "man up" or some such comment. I see delightfull little children turn into sullen withdrawn 7 and 8yr olds and thugged up preteens all the time.

All Im saying is we have such a macho culture that we dont know how any individual would develop without the social pressure to act like a man or else.

[Celeste]

If they dont, they live LIKE males :lol:

[BrendaQG]

If they dont, they live LIKE males :lol:

:lol: Interesting do you know from experience.

[peggygee]

_

Thanks for the post Peggy.. Very interesting!


Very informative post Peggygee, thank you.



Thanks ladies, hope that it was helpful. :wink:

[Celeste]

Yeah I do :roll: If they don tlive like males... they sure do LOOK like males... either way YOU FAILED

[Nowhere]

I personally think that if they 'go back', they weren't TS to begin with. Maybe a femme gay boy or whatever. If someone is truly TS, their essence is just going to gravitate away from the masculine side (unless they're FTM, of course) no matter what they do, and they will only feel right if they are where they should be.

Maybe a late transitioner might 'go back' upon realizing that no surgery will change the extreme masculization their body can't undo, but then I think most late transitioners aren't even TS, and just fetishistic transvestites taking one degree further, telling themselves they're "TS," going along with what I said in the beginning.

[BrendaQG]

@nowhere
Things are a bit more complex than that. The idea of the true transsexual who would rather die than live a single day as a male if it would save their skin is a myth. The question is there anything in that persons life that is actually more important to them than their identity? Is there anything in that persons life more important than their self expression? Sometimes the answer is yes.

For those who transition latter often it's family life. For those who are younger and stupider it can be safety, or the possibility of loosing all or most of their non transgender, queer friends (there were times and places where gay and lesbians did not want to associate with us TS's at all.) It's always personal and particular to a individual when they do that.

For example one person who did this, young, who you would not think was ugly or anything like that. Told me that she reverted to male for a time because she had never lived as a male and wanted to be 100% sure she could not be happy that way. (Nobody any of you would know of.)


Yeah I do :roll: If they don tlive like males... they sure do LOOK like males... either way YOU FAILED

8) right I am just a big ol failure at living like or looking like a male.

[Morgan]

For example one person who did this, young, who you would not think was ugly or anything like that. Told me that she reverted to male for a time because she had never lived as a male and wanted to be 100% sure she could not be happy that way. (Nobody any of you would know of.)

I did that once...sorta, I was male at one time meaning that I did go through a male puberty but that seemed like such a lifetime ago(really wasn't) and at the time when I thought that i was unable to afford hormones so I thought "Ok lets try being a guy and try to remember how that feels." it turned out to be a very horrible experience mentally and physically hell I blew my lid and burst out crying when I noticed the hair on my face coming in thicker and faster never ever had to shave more than twice a week before going off the mones course the shaving incident was just the culmination of an emotional buildup bound to overflow at some point and so I went back on hormones.

[MacShreach]

I think most late transitioners aren't even TS, and just fetishistic transvestites taking one degree further, telling themselves they're "TS," going along with what I said in the beginning.

This provoked me to come out of lurk here for the first in a long time. I was about to give you a MacRoasting for your "shades-of-Jurassic-Clarke, come-back-Ray-Blanchard-all-is-forgiven" BS but, under the influence of people better and gentler (and better looking) than I, I am trying not to do things like that.

This extract may interest you:

Jonathan C. Goddard, MD, a urologist at University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust in the U.K, was quoted as discovering the following in a study of post-operative transwomen:




The study analyzed the early results of 222 patients who had a male-to-female sex change operation between 1994 and 2004. Seventy of these sex change patients were also contacted an average of three years later to obtain long-term follow-up information.

The men ranged in age from 19 to 76 with an average age of 43. Nine out of 10 of the sex change patients had a clitoris and vagina created during the
procedure.

The results showed that 88 percent of sex change patients were happy with the initial results at their first follow-up appointment. Among those contacted about three years later, 76 percent said the cosmetic results were acceptable.

Researchers also found that among those contacted for follow-up:

# 23% of the patients had, or were having, regular vaginal intercourse.

# 61% were happy with the depth of their vagina.

# 98% had a sensitive clitoris.

# 48% were able to achieve clitoral orgasm.

(I apologise for the use of inappropriate pronouns in this extract.)

Note my bold-- the average age was forty-three, yet the surgeries were all recent. Other sources also indicate that in fact the average age of women undergoing GRS is forty plus 2.5 years for the second and again for every further child. Why? Because in Anglo-Saxon cultures, transsexual women typically displace and over-compensate-- that is, they try to play the man role as hard as they can. Many marry young and have children young, so by the time they reach 40 the first child is independent; add 2.5 years for each after that. It is very typical that at this point, once parental duties are done, the woman can no longer put off looking after her own interests any longer and transitions. Try to remember that we are talking about women here--and women do not typically abandon their children (I know most men don't either, but it is statistically much more common.)

Coincidentally, the study shows (as many others also have) that by far the majority of transwomen women regard their transition as successful and are happy with their surgery. GRS, in even the most conservative studies, has a success rate, measured in patient contentment and functionality, of better than 80%. This is a really good success rate, but it does mean that up to 1 in 5 transwomen may have problems and of those, some, certainly, do retransition. But it is a very small percentage of the whole.

Now I have no beef with anyone who says a large percentage of transgender people are not transsexual; this is manifestly true and was recognised by Benjamin. And I am not in a position to comment as to the reasons for retransitioning, either amongst post-op or pre or non-op women, though it is certainly interesting. (And there have been thought-provoking comments here.) Your comment about femme gay boys is probably true in some cases.

But to write off all women who transition in later life as sexual fetishists, as you did, after the sacrifice many have made in keeping their dysphoria at bay until the parental obligations that they, perhaps rashly, entered into in their youth, were properly discharged, is downright offensive, and you really do owe them a sincere apology for that statement.

[MacShreach]

For example one person who did this, young, who you would not think was ugly or anything like that. Told me that she reverted to male for a time because she had never lived as a male and wanted to be 100% sure she could not be happy that way. (Nobody any of you would know of.)

I did that once...sorta, I was male at one time meaning that I did go through a male puberty but that seemed like such a lifetime ago(really wasn't) and at the time when I thought that i was unable to afford hormones so I thought "Ok lets try being a guy and try to remember how that feels." it turned out to be a very horrible experience mentally and physically hell I blew my lid and burst out crying when I noticed the hair on my face coming in thicker and faster never ever had to shave more than twice a week before going off the mones course the shaving incident was just the culmination of an emotional buildup bound to overflow at some point and so I went back on hormones.

@Morgan That doesn't sound so much like retransition as desperation. I can only imagine the torture you must have felt. I hope it's all fine for you now.

The non-TS rest of us should remember that young transwomen are under huge peer and social pressures, as well as the effect of the testosterone time-bomb. They are under pressure to be straight boys, they are under pressure to be gay boys, they are even under pressure to be non-operative transwomen (especially if they escort.) The only pressure for a young transwoman to follow her path comes from within her, and it is a tough and lonely path to follow. Is it any wonder that some try living as men?

The fact is that a large proportion of young transwomen transition, go for surgery and simply vanish without trace; this means that those who have difficulties may appear to be more common than they actually are.

So-called 'late transitioners' do have some advantages-- they have often been successful in male careers and frequently have money put by; and their life-experience means that they are far, far better at dealing with peer-pressure and project-managing their transitions than the average teenager/young twenty-something. Set against that, of course, are the very real difficulties many will face in 'passing,' as well as the catastrophic effect on a well-established family life their transition will probably (though not always) have.

It's not like taking up golf.

[Morgan]

@Morgan That doesn't sound so much like retransition as desperation. I can only imagine the torture you must have felt. I hope it's all fine for you now.

Yeah besides some mental problems from being arrested for solicitation in a hick town i'm fine.

Thank you though.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

to answer your question:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=43629

[flabbybody]

I heard that Melanie has given up the tgirl route and is back to male mode

[tsdvdman]

I heard that Melanie has given up the tgirl route and is back to male mode
That's too bad..the pics and few scenes that I've seen of her was hot hot hot

[Bobby Domino]

Wow!! She was one of the first TGs I fell in love with. She did so MANY movies. I wouldn't have expected her retransitioning. Glad to know its worked out for her.


Yes.

In terms of well known girls Lisa Lawer a Brazilian girl who did a lot of work with females went back to being a boy and got married.

[mealticket]

dakota moss is another one who went back

[partlycloudy]

dakota moss is another one who went back
source?

[theone1982]

source?

Can't remember the thread, but I remember a post that was something like she has a Facebook page as a man.

[mealticket]

I have seen pics, she is definitely a man again.

[Nashvegas]

damn dakota moss was a hottie too

[callahac]

I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of them as a male if anyone has them?

[tgurlvrnyc]

I was just talking to one the other day. She had to, temporarily, for personal reasons. But she intends to go back to being a girl when she can. I think she is really more comfortable as a girl. (sorry can't say who it is)

[mealticket]

the male pics are on facebook of dakota , she was a hottie before, there are a lot of hotties that people don't know about that go back

[partlycloudy]

the male pics are on facebook of dakota , she was a hottie before, there are a lot of hotties that people don't know about that go back
link?

[Ben]

I heard that Melanie has given up the tgirl route and is back to male mode

I imagine Melanie looks like this now????????? (This pic, of course, is from 2008.) A definite beauty....

[partlycloudy]

Wow...

[Nashvegas]

Wow...


i think that about says it all honestly

[APD2]

So he's living as a gay man ,now? Fair enough.He has the right to change his mind.

[APD2]

Face Realness Battle: Reggie Balenciaga vs. Rachel St. Laurent - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxG62lEENa8&feature=channel_video_title)
.
Incidentally,the girl in the video looks like his post-op friend ,who escorts under the name Liz Purr.

http://tslizpurr.com/?page_id=14&album=1&gallery=1

[Hydrant]

Many years ago an escort called Tiffany from Bow in East London was my second ever T-girl. She was the subject of a TV documentary about her life as a tranny escort at around the same time.

Then she moved away from London and went back to being a guy, but after a year or so she reverted, and she now works in Shadwell.

I'd found her in the Daily Sport small ads (this was before we were all online) and saw her three times before she disappeared. She was always friendly, sexy and willing, but her thick cock was too much for me and another girl she was working with took my anal virginity as part of a very horny spit-roast.

http://www.london-tv-escort.co.uk

http://escorts.birchplace.com/tiffanytv

[OmarZ]

So he's living as a gay man ,now? Fair enough.He has the right to change his mind.

He will go back, mark my words...

They love the attention, and hes a bit whimpy as a boy

[OmarZ]

From this
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/090914/13/4aaea3234fd25.jpg

to this dorky dude

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/225429_2098825234887_1373097301_2523315_7983825_n. jpg

[mealticket]

yeah his friend liz purr is really hot, but I think dakota was just a gay guy who thought life woudl be better as a woman then got over it

[natina]

search the archive there are a few who detransitioned and there a few pictures

[scubaman]

I heard that Melanie has given up the tgirl route and is back to male mode

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=415235&stc=1&d=1314129283



Now your starting rumors Flabby. I want facts not rumors.
;)

[jamesedwards]

Should also like to point out another matter complicating things:

That is a vast majority of men into trannies prefer a "cock in a frock", large and fully operational, if you please.

Therefore anyone contemplating full SRS has to weigh the very real option of being unwanted by "straight" men or men into trannies.

Amoung men into pre-op trannies, there is a range that goes from whatever is on offer (ie a six foot muscular black buck in a mini-skirt , wig and high heels), to a petite, fully passable Asian TS. Don't laugh about the former example either; there was a "trannie" hoe working the Meatpacking District of NYC, who fit that bill to a T. Girlfriend not only worked those streets, "she" was cleaning up and had cars lined up like planes at JFK during a bad snowstorm.
SS

LOL hahahah oh man you got me hollering lol hahahah You tell the truth but in a funny way lol Much respect.

[theone1982]

Should also like to point out another matter complicating things:

That is a vast majority of men into trannies prefer a "cock in a frock", large and fully operational, if you please.

Therefore anyone contemplating full SRS has to weigh the very real option of being unwanted by "straight" men or men into trannies.

Amoung men into pre-op trannies, there is a range that goes from whatever is on offer (ie a six foot muscular black buck in a mini-skirt , wig and high heels), to a petite, fully passable Asian TS. Don't laugh about the former example either; there was a "trannie" hoe working the Meatpacking District of NYC, who fit that bill to a T. Girlfriend not only worked those streets, "she" was cleaning up and had cars lined up like planes at JFK during a bad snowstorm.

SS

That's an interesting point. How many post-ops actually bring up the fact that they are transsexual? Obviously, it would come up in a relationship when the thought of having children comes up, but isn't one of the points of being post-op that the topic isn't brought up unless they want it to be? Unless, they are one of the muscular ones in mini-skirts that you mentioned. However, it seems unlikely that someone who isn't on a hormone regimen whould have SRS surgery. Can you even be allowed to have the surgery if you aren't on hormones first?

[russtafa]

i went out with one tgirl who became a boy to escape the debt collectors and that ain't unusual

[theone1982]

i went out with one tgirl who became a boy to escape the debt collectors and that ain't unusual

Lol! Did she get away with it?:dancing:

[robertlouis]

That's an interesting point. How many post-ops actually bring up the fact that they are transsexual? Obviously, it would come up in a relationship when the thought of having children comes up, but isn't one of the points of being post-op that the topic isn't brought up unless they want it to be? Unless, they are one of the muscular ones in mini-skirts that you mentioned. However, it seems unlikely that someone who isn't on a hormone regimen whould have SRS surgery. Can you even be allowed to have the surgery if you aren't on hormones first?

It is an interesting point. I've been with quite a few post-ops and they've always been pretty and very feminine in every way, so it is hard to tell, especially with petite Asian girls. Some are terrified about letting you know because they've been rejected so many times before, sometimes violently, others are simply shy, but they will usually tell you, quite often the first time, especially if you're gentle and considerate, which is how I tend to be.

[mealticket]

I was once dating a very pretty ts, and she randomly asked me one night if I would still date her if she went back to living as a man...I was honest and said no, and she got pissed and we basically stopped dating,...still not sure if it was because she was testing to see if i liked her personality over her looks or if she was really thinking about going back, one thing i do know...all traces of her have disappeared from the internet...O_o

[Nashvegas]

I was once dating a very pretty ts, and she randomly asked me one night if I would still date her if she went back to living as a man...I was honest and said no, and she got pissed and we basically stopped dating,...still not sure if it was because she was testing to see if i liked her personality over her looks or if she was really thinking about going back, one thing i do know...all traces of her have disappeared from the internet...O_o


Well I doubt she would wanna date you anymore if you decided you wanted to be a woman one day, so thats kind of a ridiculous question.

[scroller]

I was once dating a very pretty ts, and she randomly asked me one night if I would still date her if she went back to living as a man...I was honest and said no, and she got pissed and we basically stopped dating,...

I'm sorry, but that actually did make me laugh. People are funny. Thanks for sharing that.

[tsnajwa]

That's an interesting point. How many post-ops actually bring up the fact that they are transsexual? Obviously, it would come up in a relationship when the thought of having children comes up, but isn't one of the points of being post-op that the topic isn't brought up unless they want it to be? Unless, they are one of the muscular ones in mini-skirts that you mentioned. However, it seems unlikely that someone who isn't on a hormone regimen whould have SRS surgery. Can you even be allowed to have the surgery if you aren't on hormones first?

Honesty is always the best policy.. When I'm post op i wouldn't want to be with a guy, begin a relationship, then after things become serious worry about telling him and how he's going to react. I think most girls would just rather be upfront and sort out the guys that would be comfortable with it and the guys that wouldn't be right from the start.
Unless they're just looking for one night stands then I guess it wouldn't particularly matter
xx

[robertlouis]

Honesty is always the best policy.. When I'm post op i wouldn't want to be with a guy, begin a relationship, then after things become serious worry about telling him and how he's going to react. I think most girls would just rather be upfront and sort out the guys that would be comfortable with it and the guys that wouldn't be right from the start.
Unless they're just looking for one night stands then I guess it wouldn't particularly matter
xx

Like I said before, Najwa, that pretty much ties in with my experience, unless a girl has suffered a violent response or multiple rejections in the past. My view is that it doesn't matter - it was the initial attraction that got us to that point in the first place, so why should the revelation make any difference? And if a girl has taken her transformation to the point of becoming a total woman, rejoice in the fact with her.

[Nicole Dupre]

Honesty is always the best policy.. When I'm post op i wouldn't want to be with a guy, begin a relationship, then after things become serious worry about telling him and how he's going to react. I think most girls would just rather be upfront and sort out the guys that would be comfortable with it and the guys that wouldn't be right from the start.
Unless they're just looking for one night stands then I guess it wouldn't particularly matter
xx
Exactly. Thank you. Why should I be ashamed, or even want to be with someone, who wouldn't understand? Far too many awesome guys don't care.

But it goes even beyond just me. Some people have standards and a moral compass. My friend is really amazing. She's a GG. And two of her biggest dealbreakers with guys are that her closest friend is a TS, and that her niece is half black. She looks at it like, 'whoever can't accept them doesn't belong in my life'. You've gotta love that. :)

[robertlouis]

Exactly. Thank you. Why should I be ashamed, or even want to be with someone, who wouldn't understand? Far too many awesome guys don't care.

But it goes even beyond just me. Some people have standards and a moral compass. My friend is really amazing. She's a GG. And two of her biggest dealbreakers with guys are that her closest friend is a TS, and that her niece is half black. She looks at it like, 'whoever can't accept them doesn't belong in my life'. You've gotta love that. :)

I'm genuinely shocked to learn that there are still guys who actually think like that. Where do they get it from? SMH.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm genuinely shocked to learn that there are still guys who actually think like that. Where do they get it from? SMH.
Just look at the type of people who demanded to see Obama's birth certificate. That should give you an idea.

[SirCumsAlot]

Just look at the type of people who demanded to see Obama's birth certificate. That should give you an idea.

You have to admit that birth certificate situation was pretty damn funny when it was going on

[robertlouis]

You have to admit that birth certificate situation was pretty damn funny when it was going on

Nope. It was entirely representative of a state of mind in the US which is inherently racist but was relieved to find a ludicrous outlet for their prejudice.

[SirCumsAlot]

Nope. It was entirely representative of a state of mind in the US which is inherently racist but was relieved to find a ludicrous outlet for their prejudice.

yeah thats what I mean. It was so dumb it became laughable

[robertlouis]

yeah thats what I mean. It was so dumb it became laughable

Apologies. Thanks for the clarification.

[Nicole Dupre]

yeah thats what I mean. It was so dumb it became laughable
http://www.nikki-dupre.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KDssc.jpg

lol

[dreamon]

I never had any doubt that Obama was born in America, but I did wonder why he was so afraid to release the certificate. Releasing it earlier would have put all the rumors to rest earlier and we could have moved on with more important issues.

[robertlouis]

I never had any doubt that Obama was born in America, but I did wonder why he was so afraid to release the certificate. Releasing it earlier would have put all the rumors to rest earlier and we could have moved on with more important issues.

Why the hell should he submit humiliatingly to a bunch of dumbass paranoid racists?

You guys used to venerate your presidents. Different when it's a black guy, I suppose. SMH.

[OmarZ]

Exactly. Thank you. Why should I be ashamed, or even want to be with someone, who wouldn't understand? Far too many awesome guys don't care.

But it goes even beyond just me. Some people have standards and a moral compass. My friend is really amazing. She's a GG. And two of her biggest dealbreakers with guys are that her closest friend is a TS, and that her niece is half black. She looks at it like, 'whoever can't accept them doesn't belong in my life'. You've gotta love that. :)

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, are you serious in this day and age?

[nonnonnon]

racism? xenophobia at best

[robertlouis]

racism? xenophobia at best

Xenophobia is a hatred of foreigners. This is racism, hatred of someone because of the colour of their skin.

Unless, of course, you're pandering to the conspiracy fruitcakes who see Obama as somehow non-American.

[dreamon]

Why the hell should he submit humiliatingly to a bunch of dumbass paranoid racists?

You guys used to venerate your presidents. Different when it's a black guy, I suppose. SMH.

Wonderful assumptions. Remember what they say: when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

I would point out that I stated right up front that I never doubted where he was born in my original post, but it's clear that you only read what you wanted to read.

At the end of the day, it was more humiliating to the people who wasted their time, energy and money on the issue when he released the certificate than it was to him. He should have done it earlier so that we could move on from such a frivelous issue.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm shocked that some of you guys are shocked. lol

To begin with, she's a medical writer, who subcontracts jobs. The topic of transsexuals came up with one of the other writers who subcontracts jobs from the same company. She sat back and listened to the woman say a bunch of nasty comments about trannys. She gave her about 5 minute' worth of rope to hang herself, before she dropped the bomb on her about me, and somewhat verbally reamed her. She said that I, her good friend, was indeed a transsexual, and that I was not only a better person in general, but prettier than either of them. lol (Her opinion. I consider my friend to be a pretty girl.) That was enough to sour their relationship. So she now barely acknowledges the bigoted bitch whenever she runs into her.

Same with the subject of her brother-in-law and niece. She dated a guy once for a few weeks, who eventually started using the "n" word constantly to refer to black people. The guy was a successful stockbroker, but he was still very racist. She gave it a day, to feel out exactly what his opinion was of non-whites, before she said, "I hope you know I can't see you anymore. You're a hardcore racist. Did you think because my eyes are blue and my hair is blonde that I was a racist? My sister is married to a black man." She then whipped out a photo of her drop-dead gorgeous niece. (She's a Ford model. lol) He apologized like crazy, but the damage was done. She grabbed the check when it came it their table, paid it, and said, "Goodbye and good luck. I can't keep seeing a man with an attitude like yours." lol

I fucking love that bitch. lol

[OmarZ]

I'm shocked that some of you guys are shocked. lol

To begin with, she's a medical writer, who subcontracts jobs. The topic of transsexuals came up with one of the other writers who subcontracts jobs from the same company. She sat back and listened to the woman say a bunch of nasty comments about trannys. She gave her about 5 minute' worth of rope to hang herself, before she dropped the bomb on her about me, and somewhat verbally reamed her. She said that I, her good friend, was indeed a transsexual, and that I was not only a better person in general, but prettier than either of them. lol (Her opinion. I consider my friend to be a pretty girl.) That was enough to sour their relationship. So she now barely acknowledges the bigoted bitch whenever she runs into her.

Same with the subject of her brother-in-law and niece. She dated a guy once for a few weeks, who eventually started using the "n" word constantly to refer to black people. The guy was a successful stockbroker, but he was still very racist. She gave it a day, to feel out exactly what his opinion was of non-whites, before she said, "I hope you know I can't see you anymore. You're a hardcore racist. Did you think because my eyes are blue and my hair is blonde that I was a racist? My sister is married to a black man." She then whipped out a photo of her drop-dead gorgeous niece. (She's a Ford model. lol) He apologized like crazy, but the damage was done. She grabbed the check when it came it their table, paid it, and said, "Goodbye and good luck. I can't keep seeing a man with an attitude like yours." lol

I fucking love that bitch. lol


I get the feeling your friend is very smart and very pretty... does she fancy a date, lol.


But im shocked at the guy, acting up like he was some southern white-trash. what a moron. Mixed race girls are the prettiest, IMHO.

[e34534qq]

Yes.

In terms of well known girls Lisa Lawer a Brazilian girl who did a lot of work with females went back to being a boy and got married.

Lisa Lawer!! Unbelievable.
So that's why she did so many shemale-on-female

Amazing.

[NatashaLover]

ohh yes they do sometimes, actually I am doing it also in 6 months. Then I will become a tranny chaser. LOL

[BLKGSXR]

ohh yes they do sometimes, actually I am doing it also in 6 months. Then I will become a tranny chaser. LOL
tiiight so youre gonna keep the tits right "sticks cack between em" lol :p

[robertlouis]

Wonderful assumptions. Remember what they say: when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

I would point out that I stated right up front that I never doubted where he was born in my original post, but it's clear that you only read what you wanted to read.

At the end of the day, it was more humiliating to the people who wasted their time, energy and money on the issue when he released the certificate than it was to him. He should have done it earlier so that we could move on from such a frivelous issue.

I wasn't having a pop at you, sorry if that's how you read it - I was aiming firmly at the birthers, not you.

[OmarZ]

http://www.punksquad.nl/plaatjes/upload/DZO5tNFM.jpg

[Helvis2012]

Happens all the time.

[Border80]

From this
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/090914/13/4aaea3234fd25.jpg


Anyone have more pictures before the detransition?

[Jackal]

Very informative post Peggygee, thank you.

Shhh... this is a secret so don't go telling everybody...

But, I heard a rumor that DANIELLE FOXX is bowing to social pressure from all the HA boys and is going to undergo an experimental procedure to grow her penis back so you boys can have the best of both worlds and will finally shut up about it. It will be revealed in her upcoming video "Danielle Does Dallas..."

Giggles,
TS Jamie :-)


PS - Danielle - XOXOXO :-)


Danielle is as sexy as ever and her vagina is flawless.

[partlycloudy]

Anyone have more pictures before the detransition?
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=40256

[slingblade]

Really. Well it depends on what your goals in life are. Are they goals that being a transsexual woman could concieveably make infinitely harder, or even physically dangerous. There are some things that society, even among TS/TG people do not understand "true transgender women" doing. Consider the following.

This is a picture of me when I was maybe 7-9 years old. I don't recall precisely. This was an exhibit at the Dusabel Musem of African American History, all about what Black kids wanted to be when they grew up.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/Zahara_TS/mylifeinscience.jpg

I knew from at least that young and I know though cannot prove much younger what I wanted to be, what I wished I was.

I'll save you my life's story. Let's just say I got through highschool by dressing on the androgynous side of female, with the tacit support of my family and the outright hostility of the administrators. I was one of two kids they labeled "behaviorally disordered" to graduate from that place for a decade or so. I went to community college as a woman. No stress there since I was still in my familliar surroundings. Then I went to NIU in dekalb. Back in 2000 they would not let a out transwoman live in the female dorms. They also required that you live in the dorms for your first year. So I was stuck in male dorms looking the way I did, better than I do now just on account of physical fitness. I had to travel into the city which was not easy to say the least if I wanted to get my hands on hormones. I tried to get help from their psych department. They were no help. Instead of hormones I was actually prescribed prozac to deal with the depression I felt on account of my situation there. That was about 3/4 of the way through the first year and i said screw it and went back to living as a male. It took time for my body to change enough for people to notice anything. Senior year one female professor noted for the small class we were in "Well it seems Mr. Farmer has finally found his oats. On to quantum mechanics." The other students looked around like what the fuck did she just say.

My grades suffered, I was kicked out for low GPA, but I managed to come back and graduate. I needed to go to graduate school so stayed on for a year taking graduate work trying to get a better transcript for my applications. Then I went to UIC and did the same for a while. Being back in the city, and back where I knew my way around I was able to come back to living as a woman. In total I ended up being 4.5 years of living as a man. Including a year of my body changing off hormones, and a part of a year on hormones before I came back out as transsexual.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/Zahara_TS/posingsmaller.jpg

Here is how I look now. For all of the trouble I went through to do it I am a transsexual, I am a woman, I am a scientist (physicist to be precise). I took this picture for my physics website in a experimental particle physics course. This is about a year old now, but I look basically the same.

Now are you going to sit up here and tell me that because I did what had to be done, in order to be what I wanted to be. That I am not a true transsexual?

intresting id say

[slingblade]

http://www.punksquad.nl/plaatjes/upload/DZO5tNFM.jpg

So that's what Lisa Lawer looks like today. Kinda strange that she went from looking like a lady and taking all that dick up her ass to being a man again and starting a family. He probably still gets fucked by other men because i doubt he quit cold turkey.