Why gay marriage is wrong to SO many.

[photo.boy]

The reasons why people (mostly Christians and other fundamentalists) have such a problem with same-sex marriage are so ridiculous and invalid. Their reasons are pathetic! Their reasons are, for the most part (as far as I've heard thus far), completely subjective and selfish. Most people against same-sex marriage truthfully have no idea why they even object to it other than for the reasons they've pulled from their religion's ancient societal rules. And for the record, I'm not gay, but I do have gay and lesbian and TS friends who I care about. They just made it illegal in California again (where I just moved from) and a few of my friends were crushed. With good fucking reason! This debate is absurd!

Here are some of the major "reasons" why people don't want gay marriage legalized:

"Being gay is not natural."
Because real Americans always reject unnatural things... like sunglasses, polyester, liposuction and air conditioning.

"Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay."
Just like hanging around straight women encourages straight men to be attracted to other men, and gay couples that hang around straight couples are encouraged to be straight.

"Legalizing gay marriage will open the doors to all kinds of crazy behavior like being able to marry a dog or other animals."
Because household pets have legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

"Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all and we should respect those traditions."
And respect that women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal because those marital traditions have not changed.

"Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed."
And the sanctity of Britney Spears 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed, and the divorce rate of 9,000 cases per year will no longer be honorably respected.

"Straight marriages are valid and practical because they produce children."
Because gay couples, infertile straight couples, and elderly couples shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages are practically empty and the world needs more children.

"Obviously gay parents will raise gay children."
Because straight couples only raise straight children, and gays don't believe in individual freedoms for others like free will or free choice.

"Gay marriage is not supported by religion."
Because, in a theocracy like ours, the values of one single religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we only have one religion in America.

"Children can't ever succeed without a male and a female role model at home."
That's why we as a society forbid single parents to raise children.

"Gay marriage would change the foundation of society. We could never adapt to such a new social form."
Just like we can't adapt to agriculture, automobiles, the internet, the monetary system, medicine, longer life spans, or science.

Anyway, to anyone who thinks gay marriage is wrong: please try to develop a brain before protesting any opinion you think you have about anything. Thanks.

And to everyone else, straight/gay/les/bi/ts... may your relationships be pure passion and your sex be hardcore and more fun and loving than any conservative religious freak can ever imagine! <3

[muhmuh]

not that i diasgree but on a transsexual forum your preaching to the wrong chior
except a few nutcases (tfan et al) no one will object

[trish]

WARNING: Be careful what you wish for. As a one time escort I can report hundreds of testimonials to the effect that, "There is no sex after marriage."

In actual fact, I'm part of the choir on this one. Having spent a lot of time in the bible belt, I've argued against every one of those ridiculous points.

The one I come across a lot is: gay marriage will weaken the entire institution. One of my favorite arguments against this point goes like this:

Imagine your daughter has been courted by a guy of whom you approve in every way. You expect them to announce their engagement any day. So one day, they sit you down and announce, we're going to live together and not get married.
Horrified, you cry, "But why not get married?"
The couple explains, "Well, there this homosexual couple just down the street and they're married!"
Now you respond, as would any parent in the world, "What the fuck does that have to do with you? With anything?"
And of course the answer is, "nothing". The intimate details of the marriage down the street has nothing to do with any one else's relationship.

[photo.boy]

your preaching to the wrong chiort

I'm just giving ammunition (via discussion) for everyone who agrees with me. By that I mean, if this topic comes up a group of people, this thread is just for you to remember since it's sort of satirical. And really? The wrong choir? So every single TS man and woman in existence has been able to legally change their sex and is legally able to marry their lover? Think again...

[thx1138]

send your Op to: americablog@starpower.net <americablog@starpower.net> and ask Jon Aravosis what he thinks. :>)

[SHEMALES YUM-YUM]

The term "same-sex marriage" is a literal impossibility. I am very much for Americans rights including those of married people. Those rights SHOULD be extended to any two people wishing to be married, whether opposite or same sex. However, after reading the postings of this thread I took it upon myself to reach for my Webster's Dictionary. The definition is as stated: "The legal union between one man and one woman." This is therefore a literal defining term for the word. Hence, legal Gay-marriage is not viable under the law if it does go against the word's definition. If an apple is an apple, it can not be called an orange.

Remedy: Call it something else! Give it whatever created name the people like, like maybe Garriage. Give Garriage the same legal standing and rights as marriage. Create it to be totally and unchallenging equal under the law. This way, Homosexuals can not claim to be descriminated against because the only thing not equal is the first letter of the word itself, and right-wing Christians can not claim that the sanctity of Marriage has been violated. A win - win situation now, even for the divorce attorneys who can now make more money off of other people's sorrows.

Just an idea because I've been getting so sick of seeing this debate on my local news. And since the politicians of my state (California) can't even seem to balance a budget, maybe they haven't even considered something like this. Way to go Governator!!! I hope you won't be back.

[thx1138]

Call it a partnership b/c that's what it is. (a mutual sharing)

[trish]

...I took it upon myself to reach for my Webster's Dictionary. The definition is as stated: "The legal union between one man and one woman." This is therefore a literal defining term for the word. Hence, legal Gay-marriage is not viable under the law if it does go against the word's definition. If an apple is an apple, it can not be called an orange.

Webster's dictionary does not have pretensions to prescriptive authority, it merely purports to describe common usage. The public can use a word or a phrase anyway it wishes to and eventually, if the usage becomes sufficiently widespread, the new meaning will find its way into the dictionary. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable for an "apple" to become a kind of computer, an "orange" to become a person belonging to a certain political faction, a "smoking gun" to become any sort of obviously persuasive evidence and for "marriage" to extend its domain to include all couples regardless of sex parity. Webster's places no constraint on usage, let alone on the law.

[russtafa]

gay marraige should be the saviour of the world with a world population out of control

[NYBURBS]

Their reasons are, for the most part (as far as I've heard thus far), completely subjective and selfish.

Not to hijack your thread, but Christians don't do "selfish". They practice altruism, and therein lies the problem. They feel they must save everyone else from the disaster that will come from not following the code of their exalted imaginary friend. If they were actually selfish then they wouldn't give a flying fuck who you married.

Edit: Just realized this got bumped up, so I wasn't hijacking anything lol.

[trish]

The problem with Christianity is not altruism. Indeed the world could use more of it. The problem with Christians is they want to, love to, need to live in a Christian community where everyone believes exactly as they do. Non-believers are a threat and a temptation. The price of giving into the temptation is eternal punishment. When it comes to their "souls", Christians are far from altruistic; they['re] highly unlikely to sacrifice their souls or even put them in danger to save yours...just the opposite...they only wish to save yours, to keep their beliefs safe from rational argument.

[hippifried]

Co-opting the institution of marriage as a sacrament is a power play. Nothing altruistic about it really. If they really wanted to enforce the Levitican laws, we wouldn't have to worry about gay marriage because both parties would already have been stoned to death. That won't save their souls. Since Leviticus is selectively ignored by all faiths, there's an argument to be made that it was inserted into the Torah by the devil to begin with, in order to tempt folks to break the actual commandments against murder & bearing false witness. It's all so confusing. We need a new savior to straighten out the mess. I'll volunteer if y'all tithe like crazy. King's X on the tortuous execution thingie though.


Edit: Just realized this got bumped up, so I wasn't hijacking anything lol.But you wanted to. That gives me the authority to tell you to "go to Hell". For the right retainer, I might be able to cut you a deal for some light time in Purgatory. A few milenia tops...

[NYBURBS]

The problem with Christianity is not altruism. Indeed the world could use more of it. The problem with Christians is they want to, love to, need to live in a Christian community where everyone believes exactly as they do. Non-believers are a threat and a temptation. The price of giving into the temptation is eternal punishment. When it comes to their "souls", Christians are far from altruistic; they['re] highly unlikely to sacrifice their souls or even put them in danger to save yours...just the opposite...they only wish to save yours, to keep their beliefs safe from rational argument.

Ah the bible is full of stories about self sacrifice for the interests of others, and about the evils of "selfishness". So I'm gonna have to 100% disagree with you there (though I can understand your point all the same).

[NYBURBS]

But you wanted to. That gives me the authority to tell you to "go to Hell". For the right retainer, I might be able to cut you a deal for some light time in Purgatory. A few milenia tops...

Indeed, but I'll pass; I'm rather looking forward to the HA reunion we'll be having there :evil:

[trish]

There’s nothing wrong with parables exemplifying altruistic behavior or people actually behaving altruistically. But Christians rarely exhibit such behavior and libertarians never do. That’s precisely what fundamentalist religion has in common with the fundamentalist right wing; they both loath the idea that someone, needy or not, might get something for free…Lord forbid it and strike the socialists dead.

[hippifried]

There’s nothing wrong with parables exemplifying altruistic behavior or people actually behaving altruistically. But Christians rarely exhibit such behavior and libertarians never do. That’s precisely what fundamentalist religion has in common with the fundamentalist right wing; they both loath the idea that someone, needy or not, might get something for free…Lord forbid it and strike the socialists dead.
Nah, it ain't the Christians' fault. If you read that big propaganda pamphlet they're always waving around, it's God himself that's vengeful, vindictive, & petty enough to give a shit who's boinkin' whom.

[onmyknees]

The problem with Christianity is not altruism. Indeed the world could use more of it. The problem with Christians is they want to, love to, need to live in a Christian community where everyone believes exactly as they do. Non-believers are a threat and a temptation. The price of giving into the temptation is eternal punishment. When it comes to their "souls", Christians are far from altruistic; they['re] highly unlikely to sacrifice their souls or even put them in danger to save yours...just the opposite...they only wish to save yours, to keep their beliefs safe from rational argument.

Wow Trish...where's that coming from?? Nothing like generalizing...huh? Under your jaded opinion, a Southern Baptist thinks the same as a northeast Catholic. Obviously you're a product of public schools !! LMAO..
And temptation is a dilemma both believers and non believers grapple with constantly. I would argue you're wrong about the eternal punishment thing. It's all about forgiveness. I'm not sure what Christians you've been exposed to that's caused all this...but it's incorrect. Maybe you spent too much time watching Jimmy Swaggert while you were in the Bible Belt !! LOL Maybe as an antidote, some reading on Mother Theresa might help your "soul" LOL !

[BluegrassCat]

There’s nothing wrong with parables exemplifying altruistic behavior or people actually behaving altruistically. But Christians rarely exhibit such behavior and libertarians never do. That’s precisely what fundamentalist religion has in common with the fundamentalist right wing; they both loath the idea that someone, needy or not, might get something for free…Lord forbid it and strike the socialists dead.

Fundamentalist christians and libertarians are pretty much polar opposites. You're right that fundy christians can't tolerate diversity but within their homogenous group they're very happy to provide for the common good. If they could they'd love to transform the U.S. into a kingdom for God where, if you pray as they pray and hate who they hate, you'll be taken care of.

[trish]

In the Bible I see Lot offering to whore his daughters to a handful of strangers. Abraham willing to slaughter his son because he hears voices in his head. In the real world, I see Pat Robertson asking his flock to pray for God to send hurricanes to Florida to punish the gays there. I see that for the last several decades the Catholic Church has been raping children. Fundamentalists are murdering doctors, standing in the way of stem cell research and denying our children a proper educational grounding in the biological sciences. Christians are largely being obstructionist in providing children with adequate birth control and an adequate education concerning sexual behavior and sexually transmitted diseases. Christians in this country smugly assume that only they have their finger on what constitutes family values, morality and ethics. If you don’t accept Christ, you’re lost...and you deserve to burn forever in Hell…because to think otherwise is to disagree with God’s assessment. There's even a group of Christians who protest gay rights while attending randomly selected funerals of fallen U.S. soldiers.



Mother Theresa?! You mean the nun who preached that poverty was a gift from God, stood against woman’s rights, preached that the duty of every woman (except apparently nuns) was to obey to her husband in all matters and have babies. Mother Theresa was a missionary. She established over 500 convents. Her job was to destroy the local religious fauna and plant Christianity. That’s not altruism. That’s religious opportunism.



Yeah, yeah. You’re right though. I did generalize. There must be some good Christians out there somewhere. I'm glad you had a good laugh at the state of my soul. That was very Christian of you. Here’s hoping you eventually find your way to Heaven. :)

[hippifried]

Trish,

When I ascend into godhood, you & I are going to have to talk.

[yodajazz]

In the Bible I see Lot offering to whore his daughters to a handful of strangers. Abraham willing to slaughter his son because he hears voices in his head. In the real world, I see Pat Robertson asking his flock to pray for God to send hurricanes to Florida to punish the gays there. I see that for the last several decades the Catholic Church has been raping children. Fundamentalists are murdering doctors, standing in the way of stem cell research and denying our children a proper educational grounding in the biological sciences. Christians are largely being obstructionist in providing children with adequate birth control and an adequate education concerning sexual behavior and sexually transmitted diseases. Christians in this country smugly assume that only they have their finger on what constitutes family values, morality and ethics. If you don’t accept Christ, you’re lost...and you deserve to burn forever in Hell…because to think otherwise is to disagree with God’s assessment. There's even a group of Christians who protest gay rights while attending randomly selected funerals of fallen U.S. soldiers.



Mother Theresa?! You mean the nun who preached that poverty was a gift from God, stood against woman’s rights, preached that the duty of every woman (except apparently nuns) was to obey to her husband in all matters and have babies. Mother Theresa was a missionary. She established over 500 convents. Her job was to destroy the local religious fauna and plant Christianity. That’s not altruism. That’s religious opportunism.



Yeah, yeah. You’re right though. I did generalize. There must be some good Christians out there somewhere. I'm glad you had a good laugh at the state of my soul. That was very Christian of you. Here’s hoping you eventually find your way to Heaven. :)
I consider myself to be a religious person, who tries to live by the principles that Christ taught. I'm saying that to say, that those modern examples of actions you listed, are not actions advocated by Chirst. They are only using the small slices to justify thier actions of hate. In fact it says repeatedly in the Bible, that we should not judge others. Christ commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Murdering a doctor, praying for others harm, is not what Chirst taught. Jesus never hurt anyone physically, he mostly taught and healed.

Many people who identify with so called "Conservative Christianity", are in reality controlled by a political agenda, with the 'conservative' part being the operative part, more important than Christ's message. I see nothing in the Bible to be against socialism, just the opposite.

And as for the stories of the Bible, they are more important as allegories. Life an customs were so different back then, you cannot judge individual actions, by standards from thousands of years later. Abraham's son story was related to the practice of animal sacrifice, but principle of the story was really about how obedient to God, Abraham was. It was about a test of faith.

And the story of Lot in Sodom, is a whole nother subject. From my newest understanding the meaning of the story changed over time. The real meaning was about kindness to strangers, which was essential to survival for travelers in that time. But even at the time of Christ, the story was on old legend.

One more thing. There is a saying somewhere that "God is Truth", so those that seek to love god, should support science as a quest for the pursuit of truth.

[trish]

Thank you yodajazz for the reminder, in words and example, that there are spiritual persons who are kind, altruistic and thoughtful.

[trish]

YouTube- Imagine - John Lennon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg)

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

[hippifried]

Oh gee, I'm gettin' all misty...

All prophets preach morals. That's what makes them a prophet. It doesn't matter where they are or what, if any, religious basis they use. Organizations have agendas. When organiztions become the moral authority, the agenda tends to get in the way & morals get confused with arbitrary rules. After a couple thousand yeas of that, nobody knows what to believe anymore.& they wonder why they're losing their clout...

[russtafa]

gay marraige is legal in the australian capitol

[yodajazz]

Oh gee, I'm gettin' all misty...

All prophets preach morals. That's what makes them a prophet. It doesn't matter where they are or what, if any, religious basis they use. Organizations have agendas. When organiztions become the moral authority, the agenda tends to get in the way & morals get confused with arbitrary rules. After a couple thousand yeas of that, nobody knows what to believe anymore.& they wonder why they're losing their clout...
My long reply elaborating on your post got wiped out.

[hippifried]

My long reply elaborating on your post got wiped out.
Well of course it did.