HONTAS ON THE NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mimiplastique]

well done :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

[thx1138]

@ Brenda: big up. Why can't anyone go to school without fear of harrassment?

[tsntx]

alrighty then

[4star4]

"Safe, supportive environment." I commend them. I offer my support.

[worldbro]

I lol'd

[HeavenlySin]

Wow. I seriously lol'd.

[Legend]

Was that meeting on halloween?

[NYTSJulie]

No money for FFS so throw a sheet on ur head, problem solved.

[tsntx]

No money for FFS so throw a sheet on ur head, problem solved.

lol

mekka lekka high makka heiny hoe

[mimiplastique]

No money for FFS so throw a sheet on ur head, problem solved.


OMG

[mimiplastique]

this is crazy i meant to put this up as a congrats for hontas . and yall have turned it into a kiki function


Julie call me

[BeardedOne]

Congrats to Brenda for getting her two cents in.

Damn! I lived in Lakeview! :lol: West Addison rules! :D

[TsVanessa69]

The organization I work for has an alternative highschool also and it has been found not to be a form of segregation, but a way of helping children already segregated from society to be educated and productive members of society.

[GIA LOVES RON]

No money for FFS so throw a sheet on ur head, problem solved.

That is fucking hilarious! you are too funny! I agree with this completely! :oops:

[tsntx]

The organization I work for has an alternative highschool also and it has been found not to be a form of segregation, but a way of helping children already segregated from society to be educated and productive members of society.


finally something we agree on

its like saying if you put your kids in a private school youre segregating them from others

a gay school is a great alternative for students serious about school and furthering their lives w/o fear of harrassment by stupid kids

next time you get on cam.... put a sheet in ur mouth and not over your head

[tsntx]

The organization I work for has an alternative highschool also and it has been found not to be a form of segregation, but a way of helping children already segregated from society to be educated and productive members of society.


finally something we agree on

its like saying if you put your kids in a private school youre segregating them from others

a gay school is a great alternative for students serious about school and furthering their lives w/o fear of harrassment by stupid kids

next time you get on cam.... put a sheet in ur mouth and not over your head

[tsntx]

The organization I work for has an alternative highschool also and it has been found not to be a form of segregation, but a way of helping children already segregated from society to be educated and productive members of society.


finally something we agree on

its like saying if you put your kids in a private school youre segregating them from others

a gay school is a great alternative for students serious about school and furthering their lives w/o fear of harrassment by stupid kids

next time you get on cam.... put a sheet in ur mouth and not over your head

[tsntx]

The organization I work for has an alternative highschool also and it has been found not to be a form of segregation, but a way of helping children already segregated from society to be educated and productive members of society.

[tsntx]

the double posts are back i see

[BrendaQG]

That video is from sometime in September. It was not Halloween it was Ramadan. The Muslim holy month where we try to actually live out what the Qu'ran says.

That said here are the facts:

A organization that is not the Chicago Public Schools setting up such a high school is one thing. Having CPS do it is something else. If you people knew how good CPS was at totally screwing up things like this you would understand why I was wary of this getting done. I did not see TG/TS students getting the proper breadth and dept of options at such a school. Anything CPS touches generally turns to shit.

It is also notable that this whole issue died months ago when the team which designed the school withdrew it's proposal. The school board never voted on it. Even more interestingly this was after one of the people involved spoke at the TG day of remembrance. They made a point of talking about how great it's effect would be on TG'd youths' in particular. He said we now live in a "post gay society".

You may also be interested to know that the proposal the CPS was going to consider had NO input from any transgender people whatsoever. Surprising considering what was said at the TG day of remembrance. Me think's that little oversight had something to do with it.

Last but not least it is a fact that a segregated environment while good in the short term is bad in the long term. It gives the impression that LGBT people need some kind of special handeling. Or it gives the impression that our only vocations are theatre or some other horribly sterotypical field. We can do anything we have a right to do anything, and that starts with the right to go to school whereever we wish without fear. Not just some gay ghetto of a school.

This is why I have joined a group of mostly LGB people called "gender Just" who campaigns for transinclusivness in schools in particular.

[NYTSJulie]

Ok on a more serious note, I am little baffled here.

A Niqab covers everything other then the eyes and that is what Hontis aka Brenda is wearing. To wear a Niqab is a strong Muslim statement, it shows someone with a strong belief in their Muslim religion. People who wear the Niqab never leave the house without one and only take it off in the privacy of their own homes. But in Brenda's YouTube videos she shows her face out in public. This is not what people who wear a Niqab do.

You are honestly your a god dam fool. So do you wear the Niqab when you turn your tricks? I am just so confused, shaking my head thinking WTF??????

[NYTSJulie]

this is crazy i meant to put this up as a congrats for hontas . and yall have turned it into a kiki function


Julie call me

PM me ur number I got a new phone and lost all my numbers or just call me lol

[GroobySteven]

Ok on a more serious note, I am little baffled here.

A Niqab covers everything other then the eyes and that is what Hontis aka Brenda is wearing. To wear a Niqab is a strong Muslim statement, it shows someone with a strong belief in their Muslim religion. People who wear the Niqab never leave the house without one and only take it off in the privacy of their own homes. But in Brenda's YouTube videos she shows her face out in public. This is not what people who wear a Niqab do.

You are honestly your a god dam fool. So do you wear the Niqab when you turn your trick? I am just so confused, shaking my head thinking WHF??????

I was thinking the same thing but you put it better ... beggars belief.

[NYTSJulie]

Ok on a more serious note, I am little baffled here.

A Niqab covers everything other then the eyes and that is what Hontis aka Brenda is wearing. To wear a Niqab is a strong Muslim statement, it shows someone with a strong belief in their Muslim religion. People who wear the Niqab never leave the house without one and only take it off in the privacy of their own homes. But in Brenda's YouTube videos she shows her face out in public. This is not what people who wear a Niqab do.

You are honestly your a god dam fool. So do you wear the Niqab when you turn your trick? I am just so confused, shaking my head thinking WHF??????

I was thinking the same thing but you put it better ... beggars belief.

Mz Brenda puts me though it lol, i am waiting for her new Eros pics wearing the Niqab. Or pics for shemale yum wearing the Niqab. God what a fucking fool lol.

[BrendaQG]

None of what you said above is true and is based solely on islamophobic stereotypes.

Muslim women like any other women especially in the west dress in many different ways depending on their mood.

For example just for kicks I am taking an arabic literature class. One lady wore a Zeebra print headscarf. This one usually wore only solid black. Others like me sometimes wear it other times do not.

We even read a homoerotic poem about this one arab expressing his love of "beardless youth's". I had to explain to a bearded taliban looking pakistani what that meant in contemporary terms. ("you see them on daytime tv". ) If I can say things like that washed face IRL and not be clocked by a homophobic crowd then NOTING you can say can convince me I am the mannish thing you speak of.

Bitch a couple of month's latter I went into the haram area of the mosque to say my Eid ul-Adah prayer. No woman wears makeup to that. Nothing but my face showing as I did not wear the face veil. (It is the picture on my youtube channel) Let me see you do that. Dress up go to a mosque in that area and just observe, this you can do without any religious conversion if you act like you are open to that. Let's see what will happen.

I know what will happen because neither you nor I look like men that is the truth.

_____

As for any possible future eros pics... no viel. Though perhaps some sort of belly dancer outfit could work with the right setup.

[NYTSJulie]

None of what you said above is true and is based solely on islamophobic stereotypes.

Muslim women like any other women especially in the west dress in many different ways depending on their mood.

For example just for kicks I am taking an arabic literature class. One lady wore a Zeebra print headscarf. This one usually wore only solid black. Others like me sometimes wear it other times do not.

We even read a homoerotic poem about this one arab expressing his love of "beardless youth's". I had to explain to a bearded taliban looking pakistani what htat meant in contemporary terms. ("you see them on daytime tv". ) If I can say things like that washed face IRL and not be clocked by a homophobic crowd then NOTING you can say can convince me I am the mannish thing you speak of.

Bitch a couple of month's latter I went into the haram area of the mosqe to say my Eid ul-Adah prayer. No woman wears makeup to that. Nothing but my face showing as I did not wear the face veil. (It is the picture on my youtube channel) Let me see you do that. Dress up go to a mosqe in that area and just observe, this you can do without any religious conversion if you act like you are open to that. Let's see what will happen.

I know what will happen because neither you nor I look like men that is the truth.

_____

As for any possible future eros pics... no viel. Though perhaps some sort of belly dancer outfit could work with the right setup.

First off when you said "I know what will happen because neither you nor I look like men that is the truth" that's wrong.....you look like a man and sound even worse.

My dear I pass very well. Was a the doctor yesterday getting my blood work done hair snatched in a bun and not a stitch of makeup on, and she asked as she is filling out the paper work, are your pregnant. Bitch I get shit like this all the time, I am just not taken back like you were the first time you passes in some Taliban Cave somewhere.

A head dress meaning a Hijab is a lot more casual but to wear a Niqab that is full coverage is a very big statement not just something you put on based on your mood.

Like I said before and will say again, YOUR A GOD DAM FOOL.

[BrendaQG]

I am not going to psychoanalyse why you feel a need to try and purpotrate like you just did. I know what I look and sound like, and how people recieve me. I know how people who really look as bad as you say I do are treated.

If it makes you feel better. Ok you look way better than I ever will.

Do you have something substantive to say or more juvenile bullshit.

[NYTSJulie]

I am not going to psychoanalyse why you feel a need to try and purpotrate like you just did. I know what I look and sound like, and how people recieve me. I know how people who really look as bad as you say I do are treated.

If it makes you feel better. Ok you look way better than I ever will.

Do you have something substantive to say or more juvenile bullshit.

What I said that is substantial is your misuse of the Niqab, that was the original post until you said some shit about me trying to pass next to Osama Bin Laden in some cave or something like that.

[tsntx]

I am not going to psychoanalyse why you feel a need to try and purpotrate like you just did. I know what I look and sound like, and how people recieve me. I know how people who really look as bad as you say I do are treated.



if YOU know how bad ppl that dont pass are treated why would you not support something that offers to put them in a safe learning enviroment?

bc it wasnt available for YOU when you were in HS?

part of growing up is helping others like you have it easier than you did.... not punishing them bc they have better options than you did

[BrendaQG]

Passing had nothing to do with this issue. I mean in highschool unless you move towns odds are that people who knew you in grade school would out you anyway.

What I opposed precisely.

Who was behind the plan.

1 A community theatre company.

2 A already existing charter school the "social justice highschool"

3. At the community forum, where that video is from, I noticed that no apparent transpeople were involved. My suspicion was latter confrimed.

4.) I had strong reservations about its curriculum. It was going to be all college prep but as a special ed teacher there noted college prep is not the right track for everyone. Furthermore their science and math programs were going to be what I would call weak... Basically thwy would meet college prep for someone gong to write poetry not for someone who is going to be pre-med, or something technical. In other words it felt like some self sterotyping was going on there.

I know this sounds really good and like a totally positive thing from the outside. But you have to know how shady the operators in Chicago politics are. I guarantee you this school would not have been a Harvey Milk.

More than likely here is what would happen. A queer student makes the teachers, staff or principal uncomfortable. Then they are faced with two choices, realplotik, either the admin's sick the bullies on you, or be sent to the LGBT school. That's the Chicago way.

What I am now working towards along with many other dedicated individuals is applying broad based political pressure to make the CPS make all of the schools safe. Make them do that NOW. Instead of only making one school safe and being happy with bread crumbs and table scraps.

[TsVanessa69]

I am not going to psychoanalyse why you feel a need to try and purpotrate like you just did. I know what I look and sound like, and how people recieve me. I know how people who really look as bad as you say I do are treated.



if YOU know how bad ppl that dont pass are treated why would you not support something that offers to put them in a safe learning enviroment?

bc it wasnt available for YOU when you were in HS?

part of growing up is helping others like you have it easier than you did.... not punishing them bc they have better options than you did
Thats a very good point. Part of what I do in my job is to point out and benefit from better options than those that I had transitioning. An alternative high school where a trans could have a normal high school expierence being comfortable as herself would have been so beneficial to me, I know thats for shure. I wish I could have gone on prom in a dress with my boyfriend like all the other girls in my neighborhood. On so many levels a school like this would make a new , safe beginning to life for so many people. Good minds won't go to waste just because nobody will listen because they are gay or trans.

[worldbro]

Bitch a couple of month's latter I went into the haram area of the mosque to say my Eid ul-Adah prayer. No woman wears makeup to that. Nothing but my face showing as I did not wear the face veil. (It is the picture on my youtube channel) Let me see you do that. Dress up go to a mosque in that area and just observe, this you can do without any religious conversion if you act like you are open to that. Let's see what will happen.


You must not do this Allah sees all; Allah sees your beard ... Allah sees you are a student that is extremely broke and have done an unsuccessful porno shoot with black tgirls - Allah saw the photos and was disgusted. You wild out dog . You iz out the game . DAMN*


*ref to http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=506930&highlight=#506930

[BrendaQG]

Honestly Reina, if you felt so strongly about the issue then why did you not go to the meeting? Surely one as wise about goings on knew this was happening. In fact I think we found out about it at the same time and place.

This is all academic anyway. Since the deal was with drawn by the group which proposed it. It is rumored that the deal was killed by the mayor and conservative black preachers in a smoky back room meeting. FYI Obama's nominee for sec. of Education Arne Duncan would have been in that room too.

Though I am not the only queer person in Chicago who opposed this. My pharmacist even mentioned it to me. I think he thinks like I do, I don't see scientist, or pharmacist, or doctors, or lawyers coming out of there. I see an educational environment which would be too susceptible to self stereotyping oversaw by the incompetent Chicago public schools. That's what I see. That was what many others saw this is a news story about that meeting. It cites the opposition of the "gay liberation network" as well as "equality Illinois". (http://www.gayliberation.net/press/2008/0919ct_gayhigh.html) There are many more LGBT people who did not like the idea one bit. For completeness and because you will find it soon enough here is a story which appearned in the windy city times and online newspapers around the world. Let me pre read the picture. I look a fool, I am all leaned over, and not giving a sexy look. (Which would have been totally inappropriate in a school board meeting in a room which had reserved seats for all kinds of Chicago Politicians. Where you were hoping to have a chance to speak and be taken seriously for what you think and not what you look like.) (http://www.gayliberation.net/press/2008/1126wct_schoolpostponed.html)

[BrendaQG]

Just to sing my own praises a bit more.... I effing shared a picture with Barrack Obama! Ok so it's a montage

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/images/publications/wct/2008-12-31/coverwct123108.jpg


Here it is in context. (http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20128) I say this as an life long proud republican I feel so honored to even have that little bit there. OMG!!! ROTFLMAO!!

[arnie666]

I see peoples point about a Gay school being a safe and supportive environment as certainly when I was at school there was a guy a bit different to the rest of us you know the type rubbish at football walked and talked a bit funny . He was battered everday . I shudder to think how a guy or girl would be treated if they 'came out'. We had a teacher who was rumoured was a dyke and several of the girls claimed she was touching them , none of the allegations stuck. But must of been pretty terrible as if anything the parents were worse than the kids.

My point is though wouldn't a Gay school attract people with pretty intolerant attitudes. All the relgious extremists and people who just feel like going on a spot of 'queer bashing'? .Maybe others would see it as people trying to segregate themselves which can cause further lack of understanding? People still have lots of harmful stereotypes about Gay/trans people and isn't it best for everyone to mix in so they realise it's a load of rubbish.

I think the best policy is zero tolerance of all bullying including homophobia. I think racial bullying is treated far more seriously in schools at least where I'm from . So maybe people need to sort the teachers and schools admin out. I also don't think homophobic bullying should be treated anymore seriously than other types.All bullying is wrong and bullys should be severely punished. It's a pity teachers can't still give them a jolly good thrashing. One would think a big bully having to bend over to get six of the best for calling tarquin a faggot might help things considerably.

[Hendrix]

Just to sing my own praises a bit more.... I effing shared a picture with Barrack Obama! Ok so it's a montage

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/images/publications/wct/2008-12-31/coverwct123108.jpg


Here it is in context. (http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20128) I say this as an life long proud republican I feel so honored to even have that little bit there. OMG!!! ROTFLMAO!!
So...........Almost everybody shared a picture with Obama. Here is my montage of that.

[BrendaQG]

@hendrix.. .A picture in the newspaper? You do know that I did not compile that montage myself don't you? What it is saying is that the news story I was involved in was placed in their judgment on or near the same level of local recognizability as Obama. Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

@Arnie. You get what I and many other LGBT people felt about that plan. Why create such a thing when simply not tolerating bullies and holding school administrators accountable could do the same job. (There is also the fact that many TG youth's drop out of school because they see no real future that education would play a big role in. Due to job discrimination.)

[Danielle Foxx]

I agree with what she said. We should be teaching others tolerance and not a way how to corral us all together.

But I like the fact that trans will have a safe place to learn.

I know my school days were horrible. I couldn't learn because I was always worried when someone would beat me up or call me names, it was a horrible time in my life.

This is I think a great step towards the right direction fo sho!

[Hendrix]

@hendrix.. .A picture in the newspaper? You do know that I did not compile that montage myself don't you? What it is saying is that the news story I was involved in was placed in their judgment on or near the same level of local recognizability as Obama. Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

"Excuse me while I kiss the sky." Great pun!(sarcastic clap & laughter)
Anywho on a serious note,I believe people should be treated fairly anywhere. So that everybody should learn to understand and love one another. Maybe this school would be a great thing because people don't have to fear being themselves. But also you don't want to isolated yourself from the rest of society. So I understand the pros and cons about this topic.

[worldbro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

wait a minute that voice...I've heard it before

[BrendaQG]

Well this has generated allot of interest.

You all may be interested in these facts. The LGBT highschool was proposed as part of a program here in Chicago called Rennisance 2010. In this program the school board set the nobel goal of opening 10 new "community centered" highschools. Schools which were more or less charter schools, but not exactly charter schools.

Well now feel the second part of that plan. To pay for those schools they are talking about closing, or phasing out more than 10 normal neighborhood schools. Activist including myself and a member of my group (same one from the photo) feel that that plan was never about education really. It was a step towards urban gentrification, and driving out minorities. (http://cbs2chicago.com/local/huberman.CPS.mayor.2.920035.html) The LGBT community was almost duped into being a tool in that plan. I am sure some homophobic person could have made hay out of the idea of little jimmy's neighborhood school being closed in part to pay for vocational schools and especially a LGBT school. So in a way it is politically better that this did not happen.

We both have noticed how many LGBT people still think of the idea of a LGBT school for what it would do for them.... without seeming to care that to get it regular neighborhood schools would have been closed.

This is complicated, Chicago, Illinois politics....nothing is ever what it seems. You may notice another part of that story... Mayor Daley appointed the man in charge of the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) to run the schools. WTF?

[alyssats]

wow a school for LGBT seems nice and cool

would like to experience that

[SarahG]

I have to say I am really on the fence here.

I know what my public school experience was like, I have to give props to anything that lets as many people as possible avoid similar scenarios.

This clearly does sound like a horrible "everyone who is gay has to be a flaming theatre major" stereotype gone wrong, but sometimes things have to start small. Sometimes the best that can happen is a school that only appeals to a fraction of those it could serve.

If anything is crystal clear, its that our public schools are wholly unable to touch the "bully issue". You can ask for no-tolerance reform all you want, but it will never happen. Doesn't matter how many school shootings there are, how many kids hang themselves after being picked on, how many targets have to drop out- schools just aren't getting the message. I don't see how another "just for show" no-tolerance policy would help things.

As long a lgbt-school was optional and not a "you come out, we make you take the gay bus to the gay school" then maybe... just maybe, it would be worth the experiment. At the end of the day maybe a few kids, who otherwise would have a prohibitively abrasive k-12 experience, would be able to go somewhere somewhat better. It won't be a cure all,and it wouldn't be for all lgbt-kids... but it might be better than nothing.

Still, it would be naive to pretend that an LGBT school would be free from the bullying problems that are so prevalent in our other schools. Someone would have to be a dumb, blind, deaf, mute, fool to not see just how common of a practice that is in our "safe" places (i.e. forums, lists, clubs, support groups, etc). It would also be obvious that this would be more apt to serve LGB people than trans people... good luck doing stealth if you went to "the gay school."

[vman2375]

where are you from, sarah. northeast?

[SarahG]

where are you from, sarah. northeast?

That is correct.

[worldbro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

I now know

[nicoleneuman24]

are you serious lol

[BrendaQG]

Lol. All politicians have their detractors. Here is a report from NPR, who I think locally braodcast this live. Make some more funnies about it. :-) Of course my voice is all you have to go on. I know someone or the other will say I sound like a man. I think I sound like a stern serious woman. A demeanor I assumed due to I would say the Islamophobic way some who were at the Center on Halstead acted... As if I was going to blow up or something. They seemd to try to avoid letting me speak as if they knew simply because of how I dressed exactly what and why I was going to say. To the point that they did not even have to let a voice of dissension be heard.

I think a problem in this conversation has been that many of you are discussing the idea of a LGBT school. What it would stand for. Thinking of how their experience of public school was, mine wasn't any better. Had I not wanted to be a scientist so much I would have dropped out in 9th grade. Thinking that a safe space would do so much good.

@SarahG
I was at the meetings talking about the real life mechanics of establishing such a school. The way it was being done, the way so many things are done in Chicago, was far from any kind of ideal. The plan was formulated as I said by a GLBTQ youth theater company The About Face Theater (http://www.aboutfacetheatre.com/) , a person from the "Social Justice Highschool" (http://sj.lvlhs.org/sj/mission_vision.jsp) was to be the principal, like four LG faculty members from UIC were to be involved. No transsexual or transgender people were involved in any of the planning, nor would any transgender people have had a faculty, or administrative position. The mayors LGBT community liaison at the TG day of remembrance visual spoke and told us how "we now live in a post gay society." Then said that this school would help TG's more than anyone. Yet they did not think enough of us to ask TG educators for their input. UIC has at least 5 Transgender faculty members. I know two by name, Pattrick Finnesey, and Dierdre McCloskey. If they could talk to Lesbian and Gay UIC faculty they could talk to one or both of them.

If the people behind that plan did not think enough of the mental capacities of transgender, PhD'd, tenured, faculty at their own university to give them a call, then what chance would a young transwoman have had there of getting a real education? An education that would enable them to be whatever their heart desired. The school was supposed to teach about queer history and LGBT hero's. I wonder if the school would be so important for transgender students how many of those hero's would have been transgender? I wonder how many transgender faculty would have been hired? (People qualified for that do exist). What would have been the subtle message of not having transgender administrators, or faculty have been to transgender youth's? (The administrators for the school had already been picked none were transgender or transsexual.)

I can't help but suspect that this could have been yet another educational institution which is transfriendly on paper, and not in reality.

Sarah you say that perhaps it would have started small and expanded into something better. Knowing how things in Chicago politics work this would not have been the case. In particular if the only concerns were those of the transgender community while perhaps the LGB community was happy with it. But even if the LGB's were also not happy with it. The school board would have just said ' hey we have that school what more do you want'. That would have been the end of it. Kinda the same way the plan was dropped/killed.

To my sisters in Chicago

What can I say girls other than that I felt very lonely there. I identified only one other transwoman there. Surely as much as this was talked about in the community such street smart people who actually live in the city should have known this was going to happen if a lame nerdy suburbanite like me knew.

Where were you if you knew? OR if you did not know then why didn't you know? Why was not more community outreach done to the transgender community BEFORE submitting this plan? Why the slight of hand on their part? If you knew, and did not come to the community forum...I don't see how you can criticize me. However I can understand how some of you could not have known. The final board meeting is another thing, if you were at the TG DOR visual, and hear the Mayor's liason's appeal for some transgender support at that meeting, why did you not show?*

I showed. I spoke up for TG/TS rights to a equal education, not just any ol funky education they think we should get.

If this comes up again show up for the meetings. Or better still get involved and try to do things to alleviate the LGBT bullying problem in our schools. I am.

*I saw one person who I recognized from the TG Day of remembrance visual. They kinda looked like Kelly Shore but I though Naaah she would have said something right? It would be something else if a suburbanite, and someone from downstate could show and no one from the city could take the time.

[yodajazz]

I have to say I am really on the fence here.

I know what my public school experience was like, I have to give props to anything that lets as many people as possible avoid similar scenarios.

This clearly does sound like a horrible "everyone who is gay has to be a flaming theatre major" stereotype gone wrong, but sometimes things have to start small. Sometimes the best that can happen is a school that only appeals to a fraction of those it could serve.

If anything is crystal clear, its that our public schools are wholly unable to touch the "bully issue". You can ask for no-tolerance reform all you want, but it will never happen. Doesn't matter how many school shootings there are, how many kids hang themselves after being picked on, how many targets have to drop out- schools just aren't getting the message. I don't see how another "just for show" no-tolerance policy would help things.

As long a lgbt-school was optional and not a "you come out, we make you take the gay bus to the gay school" then maybe... just maybe, it would be worth the experiment. At the end of the day maybe a few kids, who otherwise would have a prohibitively abrasive k-12 experience, would be able to go somewhere somewhat better. It won't be a cure all,and it wouldn't be for all lgbt-kids... but it might be better than nothing.

Still, it would be naive to pretend that an LGBT school would be free from the bullying problems that are so prevalent in our other schools. Someone would have to be a dumb, blind, deaf, mute, fool to not see just how common of a practice that is in our "safe" places (i.e. forums, lists, clubs, support groups, etc). It would also be obvious that this would be more apt to serve LGB people than trans people... good luck doing stealth if you went to "the gay school."
I agree with Sarah’s position. And I don’t think that it is as much as someone ts being asked for input, as it is someone ts stepping up and being proactive to the idea. Its not the easiest thing to do, and who has time to volunteer? The other thing, is that if a special school was open that perhaps parents of transgender youth could then demand wider educational opportunities within the school context. Or in the case of a student who wants to specialize in a more technical field, then they could transfer to a school which excelled in that field. But meanwhile they could presumably have an educational experience in a more supportive environment.

On a wider scale I think the bullying issue needs to be addressed on a wider scale, by including in a curriculum, and taught on a wide scale, along with community and ethical values. I remember having a class called ‘Civics’ in my early teen years. That type of course could be used to address such issues.

[menacingmethods86]

I think she's passable especially in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErWa0xIoTzo

[SarahG]

I think a problem in this conversation has been that many of you are discussing the idea of a LGBT school. What it would stand for. Thinking of how their experience of public school was, mine wasn't any better. Had I not wanted to be a scientist so much I would have dropped out in 9th grade. Thinking that a safe space would do so much good.


No, I am talking about what this proposal was- specifically. If we're to wait for that "ideal" LGBT school, that doesn't play on stereotypes, that is properly inclusive, that has a proper diverse curriculum, that has the funding it needs, the community support... etc- you're basically left chasing unicorns. Sure, the ideal is great but its an ideal that isn't going to happen as a first step. No way, no how.

But, that doesn't mean the imperfect first step should be avoided. Even if all it did was help the stereotypical "flaming theatre majors", that's better than none at all getting a better place to go.

Like I said, I am on the fence here, for several reasons in fact (more than my post eluded to). It would be easy to prove that in the United States, LGBT reform that is not trans-inclusive from the get-go, is almost never trans inclusive later on down the road.

The "gay" activists will say, time & time again that getting THEIR inclusive reforms met is "just the first step" and that later own down the road "trans people would get their inclusion as well" but you know what? It never happens. Once those trans-exclusive reforms take place, no one ever does go back a year, 5 years, or 10 years later to make the original reforms trans inclusive... and the trans "community" (if it can be called that) never has the political capital to get anything in the way of reforms on their own. This was why HRC is as bad as it is, and why the ENDA-thing would have been so bad if it had passed without being trans-inclusive.

It would very well be possible that this school, being as it was proposed- would only have ever helped those flaming out & proud theatre-types. It would be false to assume that it would necessarily end up trans-inclusive in the long run... nonetheless perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to have such a school, even if the only people it helped were those "flaming out & proud theatre types."

As to safe places? Come on, let's be real here. "Safe places" as far as the LGBT world go, are never fully inclusive, and are never perfect. There are going to be bullies, and there are going to be victims of bullies, in any "safe place" created for LGBT people no matter how inclusive it is. That's why we see so much drama on the forums, support groups, clubs, and everywhere else that's supposed to be a "safe place." Add to the fact that these are K-12 aged kids, who aren't even that mature to begin with (after all, they're kids) and you can predict with a degree of certainty that there will be some who find this school to be that typical abrasive American-school experience, even if that experience is inside a so-called LGBT "safe place."

Surely we can all attest to the elitism that is pervasive in anything with a combined LGBT membership. We've all seen the protests, the support groups, the political meetings where some lumberjack lesbian had gone on stage to talk about how inferior "those freaky trans people are" -> to speak nothing of the elitism that is specific to the trans community itself (for instance, young transistioners looking down on late transitioners, passable girls looking down on unpassable girls, etc).

[SarahG]

On a wider scale I think the bullying issue needs to be addressed on a wider scale, by including in a curriculum, and taught on a wide scale, along with community and ethical values. I remember having a class called ‘Civics’ in my early teen years. That type of course could be used to address such issues.

Except those programs, time & time again, fail to accomplish anything meaningful. Schools have tried, and failed miserably, to fix the "bully problem" for decades.

I honestly think we're at a point where its out of the hands of the schools, especially now that we're in an age where so much of the "bullying problem" has gone 24-hr, even off school grounds, out of school hours. What high school aged kid doesn't have some kind of online social networking page? Even if schools decided to get serious about harassment, serious about violence, and serious about stigmatization... you're still left with an institution that only sees a given student what, 6 hours a day? That's not going to be able to do shit for dealing with the remaining 18 hours. And its not hard for kids to learn how to "get away" with it under any policy that is properly established & enforced.

I do not believe schools should turn a blind eye to this crap (as they so often do ATM), but I do think that schools are fundamentally a weak venue when they stand on their own when it comes to "fixing" these types of social problems. It's like using the schools to teach people when to follow the law, the difference between right & wrong, and so forth... if our schools are the last thing in place to try to fulfill those roles, its already a lost cause.

[vman2375]

where are you from, sarah. northeast?
HOW'VE U BEEN? STILL IN NE?
That is correct.

[SarahG]

where are you from, sarah. northeast?
HOW'VE U BEEN? STILL IN NE?
That is correct.

I've always lived in the North-Eastern portion of the US. For me its a good fit, hot weather & I don't mix. I actually don't mind the snow, its when it gets too cold & windy that winter gets tiring.

I'm doing alright, how are you?

[NYTSJulie]

it still makes me kiki every time i watch it lol.

[vman2375]

where are you from, sarah. northeast?
HOW'VE U BEEN? STILL IN NE?
That is correct.

I've always lived in the North-Eastern portion of the US. For me its a good fit, hot weather & I don't mix. I actually don't mind the snow, its when it gets too cold & windy that winter gets tiring.

I'm doing alright, how are you?doing okay; good to hear from u again.

[BrendaQG]

Sarah,

I see where you are comming from. The reason those programs don't work, where they don't work.... It's because the Zero tolerance always falls on those who lack the political power. Certain kinds of students get away with murder while others are basically persecuted by the faculty.

That is one of the things that actually gave me pause about this school. You can see from some of the more juvinile reactions here how petty and mean people within the transgender community. These are adults. So you can be imagine how some of the children would react to anyone who did not conform to the accepted brand of non-conformity that TG youths take part in. In short their would STILL be bullying at a LGBT highschool. This time it would be LGBT kids of various kinds persecuting eachother. What is the solution then? Separate schools for the butch lesbians, and femme queens? (Thinking that LGBT people would not bully is like thinking that LGBT relationships don't have domestic violence.)

[BrendaQG]

dp

[TsVanessa69]

Honestly Reina, if you felt so strongly about the issue then why did you not go to the meeting? Surely one as wise about goings on knew this was happening. In fact I think we found out about it at the same time and place.

This is all academic anyway. Since the deal was with drawn by the group which proposed it. It is rumored that the deal was killed by the mayor and conservative black preachers in a smoky back room meeting. FYI Obama's nominee for sec. of Education Arne Duncan would have been in that room too.

Though I am not the only queer person in Chicago who opposed this. My pharmacist even mentioned it to me. I think he thinks like I do, I don't see scientist, or pharmacist, or doctors, or lawyers coming out of there. I see an educational environment which would be too susceptible to self stereotyping oversaw by the incompetent Chicago public schools. That's what I see. That was what many others saw this is a news story about that meeting. It cites the opposition of the "gay liberation network" as well as "equality Illinois". (http://www.gayliberation.net/press/2008/0919ct_gayhigh.html) There are many more LGBT people who did not like the idea one bit. For completeness and because you will find it soon enough here is a story which appearned in the windy city times and online newspapers around the world. Let me pre read the picture. I look a fool, I am all leaned over, and not giving a sexy look. (Which would have been totally inappropriate in a school board meeting in a room which had reserved seats for all kinds of Chicago Politicians. Where you were hoping to have a chance to speak and be taken seriously for what you think and not what you look like.) (http://www.gayliberation.net/press/2008/1126wct_schoolpostponed.html)I never got noytice or e-mails from anyone about the meeting. Center on Halsted for some reason does not contact Latino agency's in Chicago with a list of any of their TG related events. Maybe if u would forward me events that will happen, I will most certainly be there.

[BrendaQG]

If I had known that this was being done in such a secretive way I would have informed you about the meetings. I just assumed that more would have heard it through the grapevine.

Here is some news that cast this whole question in a new light.

The person picked by Richard Daley to run the Chicago public schools comes out as being gay.

________________________________________________
Ron Huberman: The mayor's man

RON HUBERMAN | Daley's teacher's pet takes charge of Chicago Public Schools


January 31, 2009

BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter/fspielman@suntimes.com

“What I believe unites every Chicagoan is the need to have a world-class educational system for our kids,” says Ron Huberman.
(Al Podgorski/Sun-Times)



RON HUBERMAN
AGE: 37
BORN: Tel Aviv, Israel
EDUCATION: Lyons Township High School, class of 1990; bachelor's degree in English and psychology, University of Wisconsin; dual master's degrees in business administration and social services, University of Chicago
HOBBIES: Reading; book club; running; mountain climbing; cooking; hosting small dinner parties
RELIGION: Jewish
FIRST JOB: Bus boy at Giordano's Pizza
PERSONAL: Four-year relationship with live-in partner
FAVORITE TV SHOW: "Battlestar Galactica"
BOOK ON NIGHTSTAND: Avoid Boring People by James D. Watson
ON HIS iPOD: 50-Cent; Kanye West; Gnarls Barkley; Keith Jarrett; Radiohead; Coldplay; Ryan Adams; Arcade Fire; assorted classical.


If there was any doubt Ron Huberman was the teacher's pet, Mayor Daley eliminated it last week.

"I have utmost faith in him," the mayor said. "I can go to sleep at night, just close my eyes. I don't have to worry about Ron Huberman."

Now, the 37-year-old teacher's pet finds himself in charge of the teachers, as the new $225,000-a-year chief executive officer of the nation's third-largest school system.

"I'll be at the Board of Education for a long time," Huberman said in an interview, a bold statement for a man moving to his fourth mayoral assignment in five years.

Already, he has drafted a plan to bolster school security and laid the groundwork to install -- first on the business side, then in the classroom -- the elaborate performance-evaluation system he used as the mayor's chief of staff and as CTA president. It produces a daily report to answer: "How'd we do yesterday?"

"Education is not that simple or clear where you can measure it daily, but there are meaningful ways to produce information that will help us make better decisions," he said.

Huberman is even making the most of his daily commute, talking with high school students on the bus to find out "what puts the sparkle in their eyes."

"They immediately share with me their MySpace page, Facebook page, HotMail, Google," said Huberman, whose mother is a retired high school teacher. "This is the language by which kids operate. How we can harness technology to enhance the educational experience is something we need to explore."

At the Chicago Police Department, where he started as a beat cop and rose to assistant deputy superintendent, Huberman helped design the statewide criminal database, known as I-CLEAR, which married technology with shoe-leather policing.

Huberman was born in Israel to a family with Holocaust survivors on both sides. When he was 5, his family moved from Israel to Oak Ridge, Tenn., where his father, a scientist specializing in cancer research and cell mutation, took a research job. Seven years later, an offer at Argonne National Laboratories brought the family to La Grange.

At 15, while attending Lyons Township High School, Huberman made a declaration that, at first, was difficult for his parents to accept: He's gay.

"It's always difficult for kids. It was difficult for my parents at first. But they've become very accepting and very supportive," said Huberman, who lives with a partner who's a friend from college. They reconnected four years ago.

"It has given me a great sensitivity for the need to be inclusive. If I didn't grow up being part of a group that was viewed differently, I may not have that sensitivity. It makes me in tune to individuals, groups and others who are not fitting in and may need extra support."

While he has an unusual perspective on the issue, Huberman refused to say where he stands on the stalled proposal for a gay high school.

To parents who might be uncomfortable with a gay CEO running the public schools, he said, "There are always those who will look to divide us. I'm focused on what unites us. What I believe unites every Chicagoan is the need to have a world-class educational system for our kids."

During an interview at a Loop coffee shop, Huberman is clearly a man caught between two worlds. Though he has immersed himself in his new job, he still asks the waitress which bus she rides to work and how the CTA is doing.

When she complains that the No. 80 Irving Park isn't express, Huberman says, "I've still got a little juice there. Let me see what I can do."

The conversation is classic Huberman in that he never stops thinking about the "customers" and ways to help his employees "see their customers through new eyes," said former Deputy Police Supt. Barbara McDonald.

"He's a very motivated and motivating person," said McDonald, who hired Huberman as her chief of staff and ended up working for him at the Office of Emergency Management and Communications, City Hall and the CTA.

"People like to work for him because he often comes up with ideas people haven't thought of. That's kind of unusual for someone at the level he's at," she said.

Assistant Deputy Police Supt. Howard Lodding, another former underling, said, "He doesn't accept 'no' for an answer. People said we couldn't get cellular technology to work with the radio frequency in our mobile computer-aided dispatch system. He said, 'I know it can be done,' and we got it done. Now, we have CLEAR in our police cars."

Some aren't so enamored with Huberman's management style. A former colleague, who spoke on the condition of not being named, pointed to the City Hall housecleaning Huberman engineered as Daley's chief of staff in the wake of the Hired Truck and city hiring scandals.

"The FBI was raiding city offices," the former co-worker said. "Commissioners were being marched over to the grand jury. Had he not cleaned house, Huberman would have been the captain of a sinking ship. But he did it in a particularly harsh and brutal way that didn't leave people with much dignity."

Huberman bristled at the suggestion that he threw colleagues under the bus.

"It's never fun to have to terminate someone," he said. "There's nothing more personally taxing. I have never done it lightly. But I will not shirk my responsibility."
------------------------------------------------------------------

To my sisters in Chicago I say our side has probably won. Now no gay highschool or no gay highschool, the schools will be better for queer students. What administrator would do something like "rebuke" (I heard one lady talk about having a principal say "I rebuke thee heathen" to her.) Holding out got us something better just as I thought it would eventually.

I still have reservations about him not being an educational professioanl though. :-?

[BrendaQG]

I am not sure what to do with this. But after seeing how things can come up much latter I think it would be wise for me to get in front of this.

A person who I wrote a blog about a while back a Curtis Hinkle of "Organisation Internationale des Intersexués (http://www.intersexualite.org/)" has written something about me. It has been reported in the news stream at Lynn Conway's site (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/News/News.html).

After summarizing their "evidence" of my "hacking wikipedia" and Collaborating with James Cantor etc. etc. They write. http://www.intersexualite.org/Hontas-Farmer.html


Hontas’s efforts to slip into Deirdre’s condo while Deirdre was away from home and to befriend Juanita while incognito, combined with Hontas's coordination with Cantor on hacking various wikipedia pages, suggest that Hontas has become an important CAMH collaborator in attempts to suppress and discredit critics of J. Michael Bailey and the BBL/Northwestern/CAMH clique.

I hope that those of you from Chicago can see right through this. "efforts to slip into McCloskey's Condo?".... A graduate student at UIC who I met quite by accident at a TG support group as it turned out was staying with Dr. McCloskey. I did not need to slip into anything. I was invited. As for Befriending "Juanita" while fully clad in a Burka at the TG day of rememberance visual. Come on as if practically every TS and TG in Chicago was not there and did not see me at least in a glimpse. I was wearing no Burka showing just my eyes. I even overheard someone near her quitely exclaim "that's Hontas Farmer". WTH? I really doubt that Mr Hinkle has any first hand information at all or the coperation of anyone in Chicago. Mostly because, like I often write on Wikipedia, I may have to face these people any day. So I am careful about what I write re Bailey and all that mess to be sensitive, but fair to all sides.

I have responded to the rest of this nonsense on my blog. (http://www.scientificblogging.com/comments/10032/Re_Lynn_Conways_Trans_News_updates_Being_Suppresse d_Ken_Zuc) I am sure Curtis Hinkle will be frustrated when his best effort to blacken my name fails. And the top hit when one googles Curtis Hinkle is still the blog I wrote about him and the second one is likley this posting on Hung Angels. Since either site get's way more visitors than OII's raggdy ass website ever will.

I control my online identity. I had to respond to this nonsense since it seems that whatever is written on some of these websites get's believed as if it were gospel.