Look how the Administration 'handled' pre-disaster matters

[brickcitybrother]

CHRONOLOGY

Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep:


January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.


April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."


2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."


December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy and former college roommate, Michael Brown, who has no previous experience in disaster management and was fired from his previous job for mismanagement.


March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.


2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.


Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."


June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."


June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.


August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden.


So: A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would definitely hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.

I'm just waiting for Haliburton to win a 'no-bid pre-paid' contract to 'rebuild' the devastated areas.

:thumbsdown :banghead
~Brickcitybrother~

Majority of research by K. Drum.

P.S. While Arron Broussard was tearfully begging for help from the Bush Whitehouse. See http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=3965. Condi Rice was literally on Broadway watching 'Spamalot' and could not explain exactly what the next step of the Administration's plans would be when caught in an impromptu interview.

I just thought I'd add some OBJECTIVE FACTS into a very moving subject.

[brickcitybrother]

I doubt many will read - but here's an AP quote.

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 - Facing extensive damage by Hurricane Katrina to naval installations in Mississippi, the Navy turned immediately to the Halliburton Company's KBR subsidiary for tasks like restoring electricity, repairing roofs and clearing debris at bases that are urgently needed for response efforts.

[tsluver247]

CHRONOLOGY

Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep:


January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.


April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."


2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."


December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy and former college roommate, Michael Brown, who has no previous experience in disaster management and was fired from his previous job for mismanagement.


March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.


2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.


Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."


June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."


June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.


August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden.


So: A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would definitely hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.

I'm just waiting for Haliburton to win a 'no-bid pre-paid' contract to 'rebuild' the devastated areas.

:thumbsdown :banghead
~Brickcitybrother~

Majority of research by K. Drum.

P.S. While Arron Broussard was tearfully begging for help from the Bush Whitehouse. See http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=3965. Condi Rice was literally on Broadway watching 'Spamalot' and could not explain exactly what the next step of the Administration's plans would be when caught in an impromptu interview.

I just thought I'd add some OBJECTIVE FACTS into a very moving subject.

EXCELLENT POST

[happyjack]

for all of the idiots who buy into the blame BUSH game...what would Condeleeza Rice do about any of this?she is the secretary of state.What did the local and state govt of new orleans and LA do to prevent this?nothing.and some money was moved around in the budget to be used for homeland security to protect bigger targets.Maybe somebody in new orleans should have evacuated the city early?

[chefmike]

for all of the idiots who buy into the blame BUSH game...what would Condeleeza Rice do about any of this?she is the secretary of state.What did the local and state govt of new orleans and LA do to prevent this?nothing.and some money was moved around in the budget to be used for homeland security to protect bigger targets.Maybe somebody in new orleans should have evacuated the city early?to protect bigger targets? you must get your news from the fox (we distort, you decide) channel..have you read any statistics re harbor/port security? or border security?... see fahrenheit 911...idiots? ... look in the mirror and say baaahh, i'm a sheep...

[happyjack]

you see fahrenheit911 and call me a sheep?you are a boob...so you listen to that idiot of a mayor in N.O. saying"i dont know whos problem this is,maybe its the gov,maybe its the president,somebody should do something"..ewhat about him?what about leaving the shithole corrupt city when you had the chance.it is a shame what is going on,and i dont want to seeany7 harm to anyone,but the first the to happen ,is blame george bush

[brutus]

for all of the idiots who buy into the blame BUSH game...what would Condeleeza Rice do about any of this?she is the secretary of state.What did the local and state govt of new orleans and LA do to prevent this?nothing.and some money was moved around in the budget to be used for homeland security to protect bigger targets.Maybe somebody in new orleans should have evacuated the city early?

Uh yea, and she was also Bush's National Security Advisor from 2001-2004....

[happyjack]

and that means what?she should have known that a hurricane would hit the gulf coast in 2005?you are another dim-wit...no offense...just think about things and stop blaming somone.should the clown from FEMA get fired?yes.should someone have been able to do something more,yes.stop looking to blame and lets help somehow..

[happyjack]

and that means what?she should have known that a hurricane would hit the gulf coast in 2005?you are another dim-wit...no offense...just think about things and stop blaming somone.should the clown from FEMA get fired?yes.should someone have been able to do something more,yes.stop looking to blame and lets help somehow..

[speck]

CHRONOLOGY


I just thought I'd add some OBJECTIVE FACTS into a very moving subject.[/b][/color][/size]

If this is your idea of either objective or fact, I would question your ability to be openminded on anything.

The way I see it:

Mayor of New Orleans deserves the greatest amount of blame in this. He had the ability to offer those who wanted to leave and could not a way out. He had a fleet of public school buses and could have offered indigent individuals a way out of the city. He could have asked the governor of Louisiana, as well as the governors of other nearby states to open emergency housing at their state run college campuses. This all seems to me like an absolute no brainer. I should also note that City of New Orleans emergency plans include evacuation by means of public transportation. Since this was not actually used, only the Mayor can be at fault here.

The Governor of Lousisiana shares blame in this and ought to have had the National Guard ready to help evacuate people after the storm subsided in much greater numbers than actually did. The Governor is also extrodinarily remiss in not having a large scale evacuation of the Superdome as soon as the storm subsided.

FEMA's response sucked big time. It is clear that the head of FEMA does not understand large scale emergency response. He should be fired. Bush deserves significant culpability in that he hired the person responsible and relyed on that person, while that irresponsible person just kinda shrugged things off until it was too late. Expect a few people to be fired, and FEMA to be reorganized.

[brickcitybrother]

speck:

I would not normally respond to your post. However, I singled the direction of my post to pre-disaster matters. Your criticisms of everyone is post-disaster. The importance of the post is that a disaster can happen ANYWHERE. The importance of FEMA was lost. Now its been found - just too late.

[Dkg]

This is why I didn't vote for Bush.

Kanye is right.

[chefmike]

White House Told New Orleans Would Flood BEFORE Katrina Hit...

White House Was Told Hurricane Posed Danger


By ERIC LIPTON
Published: January 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 - The White House was told in the hours before Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans that the city would probably soon be inundated with floodwater, forcing the long-term relocation of hundreds of thousands of people, documents to be released Tuesday by Senate investigators show.

more here-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/national/nationalspecial/24katrina.html?ex=1295758800&en=d81fc8a7ee2ec8cd&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Yet another bush lie...

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," Mr. Bush said in a television interview on Sept. 1. "Now we're having to deal with it, and will."

[samstl99]

White House Told New Orleans Would Flood BEFORE Katrina Hit...

White House Was Told Hurricane Posed Danger


By ERIC LIPTON
Published: January 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 - The White House was told in the hours before Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans that the city would probably soon be inundated with floodwater, forcing the long-term relocation of hundreds of thousands of people, documents to be released Tuesday by Senate investigators show.

more here-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/national/nationalspecial/24katrina.html?ex=1295758800&en=d81fc8a7ee2ec8cd&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Yet another bush lie...

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," Mr. Bush said in a television interview on Sept. 1. "Now we're having to deal with it, and will."


First of Brick you are right.. poor planning by the Bush Administration was clearly evident and effected how things were handled after the Hurricane. they all should be held accountable for that. I am with you

Onto Chef mike. The Federal Government cannot intervene in state matters prior to a declaration of disaster unless an official request from the state is filed with the Federal Government. No such request was sent there fore you cannot hold the Fed Government responsible for failiure to act... even as much as you hate Bush.. and want to blame him.. in this case you just cant do it.

The Mayor and Governor are to blame for the lives that were lost in NO. The Fed Gov was warning them.. giving them notice... but they didnt listen. As easy as it is to Blame Bush for everything that is wrong...sometimes we miss the real targets. The Mayor and Governor have gone mostly unscathed in all of this... when they should be flogged publicly for their crimes.. (just kidding). Maybe in the new CHOCOLATE city.. everything will be Bon Bons and Ice Cream...

God that Mayor is Whacko!!

[chefmike]

You are one of the biggest bush apologists on this board...

It's always, I don't like bush, but.... blah, blah, blah...

The mayor of NO is whacko? Very possible judging by his recent statements.....

But shrubya is the numero uno whacko...

We will see what the investigations regarding katrina, wiretapping, rove, etc will conclude....

And then you can offer more excuses for the worst prez ever...

[samstl99]

Chef Mike. I didnt Vote for Bush.. and I am not an apologist for Bush. I am not defending him just to defend him. But if someone has the facts wrong.. or is someone that bashes Bush (or anyone for that matter)..just because they have one side of the information.. I am going to point out the other side.

[chefmike]

PS...are you denying the administration wasn't caught in a colossal lie regarding katrina?...let's cut to the chase....another lie..

[samstl99]

PS...are you denying the administration wasn't caught in a colossal lie regarding katrina?...let's cut to the chase....another lie..

You just kill me. A Colossal Lie. you forgot to read this part.

A White House spokesman, asked about the seeming contradiction between Mr. Bush's statement on Sept. 1 and the warning as the storm approached, said the president meant to say that once the storm passed and it initially looked as if New Orleans had gotten through the hurricane without catastrophic damage, no one anticipated at that point that the levees would be breached.


We all Know that Bush is not the sharpest tool in the shed.. and he says things incorrectly. I know he is the President and he shouldnt. But he does.. there are Countless numbers of Bush-isms flying around because he has a tendency for vere from the prepared speech.

EVEN if he meant to say what he said. THe Bottom line is that The STATE of Louisiana and City of NO are at fault.. PERIOD. you are soo bent on blaming Bush that you are missing who the real idiots are. Sure Bush fucked up.. BRICK did a great job showing how his delegation ability is that of a 6th grader.. and how it effected the AFTERMATH of the Hurricane.

No matter what.. you always want to blame Bush for everything.. you are not an openminded individual.

[chefmike]

White House slowing Katrina inquiry, senators say
By Lara Jakes Jordan, Associated Press Writer | January 24, 2006

WASHINGTON --The White House is crippling a Senate inquiry into the government's sluggish response to Hurricane Katrina by barring administration officials from answering questions and failing to hand over documents, senators leading the investigation said Tuesday.
In some cases, staff at the White House and other federal agencies have refused to be interviewed by congressional investigators, said the top Republican and Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. In addition, agency officials won't answer seemingly innocuous questions about times and dates of meetings and telephone calls with the White House, the senators said.

A White House spokesman said the administration is committed to working with separate Senate and House investigations of the Katrina response but wants to protect the confidentiality of presidential advisers.

"No one believes that the government responded adequately," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn. "And we can't put that story together if people feel they're under a gag order from the White House."

more here-

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2006/01/24/white_house_slowing_katrina_inquiry_senators_say/

[chefmike]

Opinion
Robert Schlesinger: Anticipation redux Robert Schlesinger
Tue Jan 24, 11:14 AM ET

When this administration is consigned to history's wastebin, an appropriate epitaph may be: "I don't think anyone anticipated ..." Go ahead and fill in the blank.

It undoubtedly falls squarely into the cateogry of Affirming That Which We Already Knew, but today's Washington Post and New York Times both have inside-the-paper items noting that well, yes, the White House *did* anticipate that the levees in New Orleans would breach during Hurricane Katrina.

From the Post:

page assessment by the Department of Homeland Security's National Infrastructure Simulation and Analysis Center (NISAC), was delivered by e-mail to the White House's "situation room," the nerve center where crises are handled, at 1:47 a.m. on Aug. 29, the day the storm hit, according to an e-mail cover sheet accompanying the document. The NISAC paper warned that a storm of Katrina's size would "likely lead to severe flooding and/or levee breaching" and specifically noted the potential for levee failures along Lake Pontchartrain. It predicted economic losses in the tens of billions of dollars, including damage to public utilities and industry that would take years to fully repair. Initial response and rescue operations would be hampered by disruption of telecommunications networks and the loss of power to fire, police and emergency workers, it said.


You might recall that on September 1, President Bush went on television and peddled this whopper: "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he said. "Now we're having to deal with it, and will."

That talking point sounds an awful lot like Condoleezza Rice a few years back: "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon, that they would try to use an airplane as a missile."

While I don't have time to google it up, I will not be surprised when an alert reader chimes in with a similar soundbite about how no one could have anticipated post-Saddam chaos in Iraq. (BTW, don't miss the Times piece on the hamstringing of rebuilding efforts.)

Anyway, getting back to today's iteration, the Times brings the capper to the whole thing.


A White House spokesman, asked about the seeming contradiction between Mr. Bush's statement on Sept. 1 and the warning as the storm approached, said the president meant to say that once the storm passed and it initially looked as if New Orleans had gotten through the hurricane without catastrophic damage, no one anticipated at that point that the levees would be breached.
I'm glad they cleared that up.

[yourdaddy]

I live in Polk County, Florida. Look It UP !!! In 2004, the eye of 3 Hurricanes, Charlie, Frances, and Jean, came within 40 miles of MY HOUSE. The same FEMA people were in charge then. Everything worked out O.K., though it was a real pain in the ass. !5 days total, without electricity. Did you hear a huge outcry????? No, because we didn't have a bunch of democrat politicians wailing and moaning. Katrina covered 92,000 square miles...Thats 9 2 , 0 0 0 SQUARE MILES. No one, including Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid, could have anticipated the problems. You dumbasses that know nothing about hurricane damage, should politely join waffle boy (chefmike), and excuse yourselves from this discussion.

[chefmike]

the usual redneck reich-wing troll drivel...

As always, your learned opinions are appreciated...

[yourdaddy]

You can't get more learned than my last post, mike. Where were your liberals then?????????????????

[yourdaddy]

So waffle boy can relate to the topic (for once), New York City is 27 square miles. Katrina decimated 9 2 , 0 0 0 Square miles. Do the math. I bought a generator in 2001, because I read where the Hurricane cycle was going back to the way it was back in the 60's. I wasn't going to depend on the Federal Government to take care of me and mine. That same year, i put a small room A.C, in my "Florida Room", so a generator could keep one room in my house cool. It's called looking out for yourself.

[Legend]

You can't get more learned than my last post, mike. Where were your liberals then?????????????????


LOL, learn how to form sentences that make sense.

"You can't get more learned"


LOL.

[GroobySteven]

http://www.grooby.com/smy/samanthaD5111.jpg

[yourdaddy]

Seanchai, your mothers nipples are inverted.

[Legend]

Seanchai, your mothers nipples are inverted.

I think he is saying your a fucking asshole.

[yourdaddy]

You think so? Gee, what's a fucking Limey doing on a thread about hurricanes anyway?? Typical know-it-all liberal, I guess.

[Felicia Katt]

Yourdaddy, Fema did such a great job in Florida in that election year where Florida was THE key state that places that had no no real storm damage got FEMA funds.
http://www.yuricareport.com/Disaster/FEMA_Gave21Million_forThunderStorm.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sfl-fema02dec02,0,6656825.story?coll=sfla-news-utility
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sfl-afema12dec12,0,7328331.story?coll=sfla-news-utility
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sfl-brown13feb13,0,4950680.story?coll=sfla-news-utility

Sadly, the Federal emergency apparently really being managed in Florida was Bush's lagging poll numbers, and that was the "heckuva job" Brownie was thanked for.

FK

[yourdaddy]

The rip-offs were in Miami, where the storms didn't even come close to. Most of our liberals live down there, and they are always looking for a federal hand-out.

[Felicia Katt]

Thank you for helping prove my point. FEMA was handing out cash, small appliances and other aid like candy. Considering the margin of victory in the prior election was supposedly 537 votes, statewide (though I still say it was actually by 1 vote, 5-4), I'm guessing that 21 million dollars for hurricane relief to people who were not in hurricane might curry a little voter favor for the candy man signing those checks.

FK

[brickcitybrother]

samstl99:

Thank you for the ups on my post. However, I would like to point out one thing. The Federal Government can go into any area in the country by invoking the provisions of The Insurrection Act, 10 U.S.C. § 331 et. seq.

Some of the interesting provisions of the Act allow for the Federalization of the National Guard (putting them under the immediate and direct control of the president). If the State (usually applied to mean a State or group of States, but does apply to other US protectorates) cannot protect its citizens constitutional rights or cannot guarantee the implemenation of Federal Law, then the president can move in without any prior notice or request.

While done without prior notice, the President is to issue a proclamation to 'disperse' to any insurrgents.

What is interesting about this Act and this debate about Katrina is that the President did consider using the Act, but did not want to abide by a number of its strictures. The Act has numerous regulations that are checks of Presidential power. It also has very strict reporting requirements to congress. It has beenn said that those were the reasons, among others, that Bush declined to use the Act. It was also suggested that the President wanted Louisiana to foot the bill for relief efforts, and that the use of the Act would not only thwart that goal, but would also take the cost of the National Gaurd troops from the Louisiana and place on the Federal Government's tab.

[KD]

Bush appoints me to say, fuck all you tranny chasers. I got Jeff Gannon, Talon News biotch.

KD

200 whitehouse visits Biotch. top that!!!!!

[samstl99]

samstl99:

Thank you for the ups on my post. However, I would like to point out one thing. The Federal Government can go into any area in the country by invoking the provisions of The Insurrection Act, 10 U.S.C. § 331 et. seq.

Some of the interesting provisions of the Act allow for the Federalization of the National Guard (putting them under the immediate and direct control of the president). If the State (usually applied to mean a State or group of States, but does apply to other US protectorates) cannot protect its citizens constitutional rights or cannot guarantee the implemenation of Federal Law, then the president can move in without any prior notice or request.

While done without prior notice, the President is to issue a proclamation to 'disperse' to any insurrgents.

What is interesting about this Act and this debate about Katrina is that the President did consider using the Act, but did not want to abide by a number of its strictures. The Act has numerous regulations that are checks of Presidential power. It also has very strict reporting requirements to congress. It has beenn said that those were the reasons, among others, that Bush declined to use the Act. It was also suggested that the President wanted Louisiana to foot the bill for relief efforts, and that the use of the Act would not only thwart that goal, but would also take the cost of the National Gaurd troops from the Louisiana and place on the Federal Government's tab.

Brick, I dont have a problem replying back to your posts as I believe we can discuss a topic intelligently. Some of the others are wayy too emotional about things.

The Insurrection Act's intent was to be used in the event of Civil unrest and times when the state is incapable of taking care of its citizens. In essence is close to enacting Martial Law. You have to remember that it is a last recourse for any president to have the military run or control any US soil. With all the information the the Government was giving to the State it is reasonable to believe that the Governor and mayor would take heed and do what they needed to do for their citizens.

While Bush was an idiot for saying... no one could have ever thought........etc etc..

What he should have said was.. No one would have ever thought that the State and Local officials would have ignored the warnings and failed to assist their citizens. To make that assumption and send in the National Guard BEFORE the state does or doesnt do anything would have been met with even MORE outcries from people (conservative and Liberal). The problem that I have with Bush is his God Complex. He thinks that he is the power almighty on this world. And for him to intervene in state affairs prematurely would have been the worst thing.

Again, who knew that the Mayor and Governor were buffoons.

[General124]

samstl99:

You could have never been so WRONG. You constantly say that the mayor and governor are to blame for what happened. Are you kidding me? What facts do you to support this? Here are some facts:

1. The school buses that everyone seems to throw as proof there was transportation out of the area. The city didn't own them. Even if commandeered, who was going to drive them? Over 1.3 million people had already left the area, including OPSB drivers who left with their family.

2. The devastation of New Orleans was not caused by Katrina. It was caused by a man-made failure of the levees. Those levees were created and maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers. That's a federal agency run by the federal budget, created by the U.S. president.

3. New Orleans is not New York City. Louisiana is not New York. No way can "WE" (yes, I'm a native) can fund such a project without FEDERAL assistance.

4. Have you read the documents Louisiana submitted to Congress for review? There were several messages, including a phone call from the governor to the White House asking the White House for assistance prior to landfall. There were several written requests. The White House had two responses: We don't remember the phone call and the State has to resubmit the request for documentation purposes because there's no recollection of receiving it..

5. Hell, even Michael Brown has admitted the feds dropped the ball on the whole ordeal. Then again, it's Michael Brown. Does he count for anything.

Now, I'm no big fan of the governor and while I may have an affiliation with the mayor, I have no loyalty to him as well (live in a different parish). His fate was sealed prior to Chocolate City. But to say a small, underfunded state should hold the brundt of the blame in a slip up in HOMELAND SECURITY is absolutely ridiculous.

[Felicia Katt]

While Bush was an idiot for saying... no one could have ever thought........etc etc..

What he should have said was.. No one would have ever thought that the State and Local officials would have ignored the warnings and failed to assist their citizens. To make that assumption and send in the National Guard BEFORE the state does or doesnt do anything would have been met with even MORE outcries from people (conservative and Liberal). The problem that I have with Bush is his God Complex. He thinks that he is the power almighty on this world. And for him to intervene in state affairs prematurely would have been the worst thing.

Again, who knew that the Mayor and Governor were buffoons.

"I was impressed by [Michael Brown's] willingness to accept responsibility for how incompetent everyone else was. He candidly admitted he was too trusting, too able, too overskilled to deal with all the retards around him. Overall, Jon, a heartfelt and stirring you-a culpa."
- Rob Corddry, correspondent on The Daily Show

Brownie, is that you? LOL

you can see the entire intentionally hilarious clip here
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/rob_corddry/index.jhtml

FK

[BlackAdder]

I like how you try and spin so simple an issue onto C. Rice's shoulders. Theres a big difference between SOS and CIC.

Once again, a republican attempts to shift blame by crying "Cant we all just get along".

Ummm..no, fuck off..thank you and come again.

[samstl99]

samstl99:

You could have never been so WRONG. You constantly say that the mayor and governor are to blame for what happened. Are you kidding me? What facts do you to support this? Here are some facts:

1. The school buses that everyone seems to throw as proof there was transportation out of the area. The city didn't own them. Even if commandeered, who was going to drive them? Over 1.3 million people had already left the area, including OPSB drivers who left with their family.

2. The devastation of New Orleans was not caused by Katrina. It was caused by a man-made failure of the levees. Those levees were created and maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers. That's a federal agency run by the federal budget, created by the U.S. president.

3. New Orleans is not New York City. Louisiana is not New York. No way can "WE" (yes, I'm a native) can fund such a project without FEDERAL assistance.

4. Have you read the documents Louisiana submitted to Congress for review? There were several messages, including a phone call from the governor to the White House asking the White House for assistance prior to landfall. There were several written requests. The White House had two responses: We don't remember the phone call and the State has to resubmit the request for documentation purposes because there's no recollection of receiving it..

5. Hell, even Michael Brown has admitted the feds dropped the ball on the whole ordeal. Then again, it's Michael Brown. Does he count for anything.

Now, I'm no big fan of the governor and while I may have an affiliation with the mayor, I have no loyalty to him as well (live in a different parish). His fate was sealed prior to Chocolate City. But to say a small, underfunded state should hold the brundt of the blame in a slip up in HOMELAND SECURITY is absolutely ridiculous.


Ok lets take care of these ONE by ONE.

The buses were there... We agree on that. ALSO Greyhound was there as well. Now while a private company could have easily made the offer to drive people out, the City officials should have pointed to them, commandeered the Buses (in which the City does pay a fee for in the end). Also Emergency personnel that were still in the city were available. To use the excuse...OHH we didnt get the busses rolling because we didnt know if anyone could drive them is a lame excuse. Get the Buses, and you will find people to drive them.. That is a LAME LAME excuse. It is NOT hard to drive a bus. Give me a break on this one

2 On the levees, I agree that was a fuck up by everyone involved. FEMA and everyone. However I believe there were two plans submitted. One was to shore up the current levee, and make it stronger and stable, and the other was to upgrade the levee system to handle a Category 4 storm and improve drainage in the surrounding parishes. While this is a major screw up. You cannot expect a levee to save an area that is below Sea level, under catastrophic events. The levee is not a guarantee. Also the Army Corp of engineer projects are dualy funded by both state and Federal funding. The ACE is more of a planning/management and structural engineering mechanism.

3 You say that NO is not New York City. I agree. But lets talk about a reasonable comparison.

In 1993 St Louis was hit by a flood that had never been seen in 200 years. It devasted the entire area. this is a slow process, the levees were not holding. Did we get FEMA intervention before the flood.. NO. we did get Red Cross, and after the collapse of the levees FEMA came in. Now after all this destruction from collapsed levees and large amounts of rain fall did we get Federal Funding to fix the Levees? But before we go there.. for 20 years the State of MO had proposals in with the AC of Engineers to improve and upgrade the levees and it was denied. Two years prior we had flooding that pushed the levees to its limits. THen 93 came and destroyed everything in its path. AGAIN everyone saw it coming. YES a large amount of lives were not lost, but the damage to the property was unbelievable.

SO now we have rebuild the levees. The Federal Govt subsidized it but they only contributed 20 % of the funding to do this. The rest came from the state.. and we are NOT NEW YORK either.

The Bottom line is that FEMA is NOT designed to respond pre-disater.

Michael Brown is going and was going to say anything as to not make him the single target of scrutiny.. when he is an Idiot and should have never been appointed to the position by Bush.. who was an idiot for putting him there.

Bottom line is the BLAME for the lives lost belong to the sheer fact that there was NO emergency plan by the city and State. PERIOD. They failed to act. EVEN if the levees had been done and in place.. They are not a guarantee that this would not have happened as Katrina was a Category 4 storm that just prior to coming ashore was a Cat 4 storm. The new levees would have been rated for a Category 4 storm. But again, you cannot rely upon those levees. The city would have still needed to be evacuated. so there is some blame on the Fed Government for not helping fund the levees. But if the state doesnt come up with their end of the funding, then the project dies.. or gets replanned.

I dont care if your are Chocolate City Man's brother. He is a Buffoon, and a coward. The governor is just as dense. If they could NOT handle the situation then they needed to Request Federal assistance... to which they NEVER did. All your mayor did is flee the city and basically said to his citizens.. "Fuck you I am outta here... I aint gonna die"

Brick's points are dead On.. I agree with him.. But you cannot look past the liability that lays on the heads of the mayor and governor.

[brickcitybrother]

samstl99:

Thank you for the ups on my post. However, I would like to point out one thing. The Federal Government can go into any area in the country by invoking the provisions of The Insurrection Act, 10 U.S.C. § 331 et. seq.

Some of the interesting provisions of the Act allow for the Federalization of the National Guard (putting them under the immediate and direct control of the president). If the State (usually applied to mean a State or group of States, but does apply to other US protectorates) cannot protect its citizens constitutional rights or cannot guarantee the implemenation of Federal Law, then the president can move in without any prior notice or request.

While done without prior notice, the President is to issue a proclamation to 'disperse' to any insurrgents.

What is interesting about this Act and this debate about Katrina is that the President did consider using the Act, but did not want to abide by a number of its strictures. The Act has numerous regulations that are checks of Presidential power. It also has very strict reporting requirements to congress. It has beenn said that those were the reasons, among others, that Bush declined to use the Act. It was also suggested that the President wanted Louisiana to foot the bill for relief efforts, and that the use of the Act would not only thwart that goal, but would also take the cost of the National Gaurd troops from the Louisiana and place on the Federal Government's tab.

Brick, I dont have a problem replying back to your posts as I believe we can discuss a topic intelligently. Some of the others are wayy too emotional about things.

The Insurrection Act's intent was to be used in the event of Civil unrest and times when the state is incapable of taking care of its citizens. In essence is close to enacting Martial Law. You have to remember that it is a last recourse for any president to have the military run or control any US soil.

My point was that Bush could have gone in without a request from either the Mayor or Governor and did ]actually[/u] consider use of the Insurrection Act. Since my post was directed to pre-Katrina actions, I'm not attempting to reply to your comment about the post-disaster actions.

8)

[samstl99]

Brick,

I hear ya. He did consider it, but really at the time, forget what we know now, dont you think he would have been Roasted for intervening in state affairs without consent or request from the state?

I am sure he was advised that if he were to mobilize the National guard without approval or request from the state that he would be lambasted by everyone.

Lets not fool ourselves, the democrats would have eaten him alive... At the time.

Now Hindsight being 20/20 it would have been the best thing he could have done. We have to look at the information at the time of decision.

[chefmike]

lmao...still making excuses for the inexcusable....

[chefmike]

Katrina Coverup: "The Bush Administration Is Stonewalling The Congress"...

White House Declines to Provide Storm Papers

By ERIC LIPTON
Published: January 25, 2006

WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 - The Bush administration, citing the confidentiality of executive branch communications, said Tuesday that it did not plan to turn over certain documents about Hurricane Katrina or make senior White House officials available for sworn testimony before two Congressional committees investigating the storm response.

The White House this week also formally notified Representative Richard H. Baker, Republican of Louisiana, that it would not support his legislation creating a federally financed reconstruction program for the state that would bail out homeowners and mortgage lenders. Many Louisiana officials consider the bill crucial to recovery, but administration officials said the state would have to use community development money appropriated by Congress.

The White House's stance on storm-related documents, along with slow or incomplete responses by other agencies, threatens to undermine efforts to identify what went wrong, Democrats on the committees said Tuesday.

"There has been a near total lack of cooperation that has made it impossible, in my opinion, for us to do the thorough investigation that we have a responsibility to do," Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat of Connecticut, said at Tuesday's hearing of the Senate committee investigating the response. His spokeswoman said he would ask for a subpoena for documents and testimony if the White House did not comply.

more here-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/25/politics/25katrina.html?hp&ex=1138165200&en=e89a11af74ffd279&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[samstl99]

Chefmike.

Funny how all your posts are always coming from Liberal sources. Just because a newspaper reported it, doesnt mean it is the whole truth. Every media outlet has an agenda.

Did you notice that the republican run white house.. turned down a republican request. Because it is not a normal course that the Fed Gov foots the bill for all of it.

You are missing the point.. maybe because you are SOO intent on blaming the President for everything. I am not making excuses for him. GOD you are soo Dense.

I agree with Brick..his posts are dead on. The Response to the catastrophe was terrible.. and the blame goes to the Bush administration. PERIOD. I cannot be any clearer.

NOW.. onto what I was saying and you cant comprehend.. and that is responsibility for the lost lives.. and what happened BEFORE Katrina Hit.. and during Katrina. THat is NOT the Feds fault. it IS the Mayor and Governor's fault.

[chefmike]

The lies currently being discussed in every media outlet (with the possible exception of FAUX news, which I suspect you watch) involve the current regime's lies and coverup regarding the events preceding Katrina. Dense? Yes, you are dense enough to defend yet another big lie and coverup by this unelected prez....

Keep up the good work...maybe you'll get a white house press pass like jeff gannon...or are you....?

[samstl99]

The lies currently being discussed in every media outlet (with the possible exception of FAUX news, which I suspect you watch) involve the current regime's lies and coverup regarding the events preceding Katrina. Dense? Yes, you are dense enough to defend yet another big lie and coverup by this unelected prez....

Keep up the good work...maybe you'll get a white house press pass like jeff gannon...or are you....?

Oh my god I am so done with you. EVEN The things you post are talking about POST Katrina. And anything PRE Katrina is in regards to the things that Brick Posted.

People can try to blame the Fed Gov all they want for the failed evacuation of NO and lives being lost.. but that is just to deflect their own fault.

So I am guessing that you think that the Fed Gov should have jurisdiction in State Affairs anytime they think they need to? Please answer this question.

[chefmike]

The lies currently being discussed in every media outlet (with the possible exception of FAUX news, which I suspect you watch) involve the current regime's lies and coverup regarding the events preceding Katrina. Dense? Yes, you are dense enough to defend yet another big lie and coverup by this unelected prez....

Keep up the good work...maybe you'll get a white house press pass like jeff gannon...or are you....?

Oh my god I am so done with you. EVEN The things you post are talking about POST Katrina. And anything PRE Katrina is in regards to the things that Brick Posted.

People can try to blame the Fed Gov all they want for the failed evacuation of NO and lives being lost.. but that is just to deflect their own fault.

So I am guessing that you think that the Fed Gov should have jurisdiction in State Affairs anytime they think they need to? Please answer this question.

Jeff, or is it Jeb, is that you?

Are you talking about the Terry Schiavo case?

[samstl99]

Mike,

Show some intelligence and original thought. Think for yourself.

Funny.. you still have not answered that question. I mean you have by your stance, but I just want to make it clear what your answer is.

[chefmike]

The lies currently being discussed in every media outlet (with the possible exception of FAUX news, which I suspect you watch) involve the current regime's lies and coverup regarding the events preceding Katrina. Dense? Yes, you are dense enough to defend yet another big lie and coverup by this unelected prez....

Keep up the good work...maybe you'll get a white house press pass like jeff gannon...or are you....?

Oh my god I am so done with you. EVEN The things you post are talking about POST Katrina. And anything PRE Katrina is in regards to the things that Brick Posted.

People can try to blame the Fed Gov all they want for the failed evacuation of NO and lives being lost.. but that is just to deflect their own fault.

So I am guessing that you think that the Fed Gov should have jurisdiction in State Affairs anytime they think they need to? Please answer this question.

I didn't bring up states rights, nor am I the one tapdancing around the lies currently under investigation regarding the katrina warnings ignored by the criminals that you continue to make excuses for...

But since you mentioned the swine currently in office and their constantly changing opinions on states rights, depending on what day it is...

States Rights

Talking about Congressional intervention in the Terri Schiavo case, Republican representative Christopher Shays of Conneticut said:

"My party is demonstrating that they are for states' rights unless they don't like what states are doing. ... This Republican Party of Lincoln has become a party of theocracy." (New York Times, March 23, 2005)

Conservatives are the historical defenders of states' rights, and the supposed proponents of keeping big government out of people's lives, but this case once again shows that some social conservatives are happy to see the federal government acquire Stalinist proportions when imposing their morality on the rest of the country. So breathtaking was this attempted usurpation of power, wresting jurisdiction over a right-to-die case away from Florida's judiciary, that Republican leaders in the end had to agree to limit this legislation's applicability to the Schiavo case.

more here-

http://www.theocracywatch.org/terri_midnight_coup_latimes_mar21_05.htm

The mandates... emanating from Washington are coming not from big-government Democrats but conservative Republicans. And thanks to the party's successes in recent years, more of the state and local officials who are complaining about those actions are Republicans, too.

more here-

http://www.theocracywatch.org/states_rights_times_red_blue_jan16_05.htm

[yourdaddy]

Don't hold your breath Sam, waffle boy NEVER answers your question till he's made a fool of. He never thinks on his own, just spouts moveon.org bullshit all day. He actually thinks people read his downloaded material.

[samstl99]

chefmike... again.. Not one original thought coming from you. You may actually have something to say.. but no one can get past you sensationalizing everything. As soon as you do that.. NO ONE listens to you. It is a childish tactic.

Again you missed my question. Just answer it. I dont want to read articles written by opinionated journalists. You continue to post things from people that have the publics ear.. and an ear they are MORE than willing to bend because they have an agenda for people to believe.

Mike THINK for yourself. Read past what is in the media.. ALL of the media. Become an enlightened individual. Be Open minded and see beyond it all.

I have openly criticized Bush.. and openly criticized others. I can see both sides of the argument. I dont just blindly defend on person to the end. I defend the truth.

I dont give a rats ass about the Shiavo case...


Just answer the question. Answer my question. You wont find it in some article somewhere. Just answer it.

[Felicia Katt]

Ok lets take care of these ONE by ONE.

The buses were there... We agree on that. ALSO Greyhound was there as well. Now while a private company could have easily made the offer to drive people out, the City officials should have pointed to them, commandeered the Buses (in which the City does pay a fee for in the end). Also Emergency personnel that were still in the city were available. To use the excuse...OHH we didnt get the busses rolling because we didnt know if anyone could drive them is a lame excuse. Get the Buses, and you will find people to drive them.. That is a LAME LAME excuse. It is NOT hard to drive a bus. Give me a break on this one

2 On the levees, I agree that was a fuck up by everyone involved. FEMA and everyone. However I believe there were two plans submitted. One was to shore up the current levee, and make it stronger and stable, and the other was to upgrade the levee system to handle a Category 4 storm and improve drainage in the surrounding parishes. While this is a major screw up. You cannot expect a levee to save an area that is below Sea level, under catastrophic events. The levee is not a guarantee. Also the Army Corp of engineer projects are dualy funded by both state and Federal funding. The ACE is more of a planning/management and structural engineering mechanism.

3 You say that NO is not New York City. I agree. But lets talk about a reasonable comparison.

In 1993 St Louis was hit by a flood that had never been seen in 200 years. It devasted the entire area. this is a slow process, the levees were not holding. Did we get FEMA intervention before the flood.. NO. we did get Red Cross, and after the collapse of the levees FEMA came in. Now after all this destruction from collapsed levees and large amounts of rain fall did we get Federal Funding to fix the Levees? But before we go there.. for 20 years the State of MO had proposals in with the AC of Engineers to improve and upgrade the levees and it was denied. Two years prior we had flooding that pushed the levees to its limits. THen 93 came and destroyed everything in its path. AGAIN everyone saw it coming. YES a large amount of lives were not lost, but the damage to the property was unbelievable.

SO now we have rebuild the levees. The Federal Govt subsidized it but they only contributed 20 % of the funding to do this. The rest came from the state.. and we are NOT NEW YORK either.

The Bottom line is that FEMA is NOT designed to respond pre-disater.

Michael Brown is going and was going to say anything as to not make him the single target of scrutiny.. when he is an Idiot and should have never been appointed to the position by Bush.. who was an idiot for putting him there.

Bottom line is the BLAME for the lives lost belong to the sheer fact that there was NO emergency plan by the city and State. PERIOD. They failed to act. EVEN if the levees had been done and in place.. They are not a guarantee that this would not have happened as Katrina was a Category 4 storm that just prior to coming ashore was a Cat 4 storm. The new levees would have been rated for a Category 4 storm. But again, you cannot rely upon those levees. The city would have still needed to be evacuated. so there is some blame on the Fed Government for not helping fund the levees. But if the state doesnt come up with their end of the funding, then the project dies.. or gets replanned.

I dont care if your are Chocolate City Man's brother. He is a Buffoon, and a coward. The governor is just as dense. If they could NOT handle the situation then they needed to Request Federal assistance... to which they NEVER did. All your mayor did is flee the city and basically said to his citizens.. "Fuck you I am outta here... I aint gonna die"

Brick's points are dead On.. I agree with him.. But you cannot look past the liability that lays on the heads of the mayor and governor.
lets take a little more care of these points one by one

1. Buses.
How many buses do you think were there? I know Rush and all claimed there were 2,000. The actual total? 550 City buses and 324 school buses, with 70 out of commission. There were an estimated 147,000 people or so who were too poor or ill or weak to evacuate themselves. You ever try to get close to 200 people, many in wheelchairs or with oxygen tanks onto a bus? That would be a neat fraternity prank, or something for the book of World records, but its not practical.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120005

2. Levees
The levee projects were badly underfunded because money had to be shifted to the war in Irag. A project that was supposed to cost 750 million was underfunded by 150 million. In 2005, where 20 million was required, only 3.9 million was provided. Where 36 million was necessary, only 10.8 million was made available. Overall, from 2001 to 2005 the amount being spent on flood control construction was reduced by 44.2 percent
http://www.alternet.org/story/24871

3. Fema's role
"The Federal Emergency Management Agency - a former independent agency that became part of the new Department of Homeland Security in March 2003 - is tasked with responding to, planning for, recovering from and mitigating against disasters." Thats from Fema's own website. Even if they are only supposed to respond, not plan for, or mitigate, they did a horrible job. Walmart was there providing relief before FEMA was
http://www.cio.com/archive/110105/tl_katrina.html
and National Guardsmen under federal control waited out of state for orders that never came.

Brown was not qualifed or competent. Bush put him there for patronage reasons only, so is equally culpable. No controversy there.

4. Emergency Requests

The governor declared a State of Emergency on August 26 and requested that President Bush "declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina." The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day (Saturday) by declaring the emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.
http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/blanco.asp
The Mayor is not the person to declare a State of Emergency, but at least he did call for voluntary and then mandatory evacuations (the first one for a US city, ever), before the storm hit.

There were local plans, at the City and State level. They were not as well executed as they could have been, but it was also apparent the storm was too great. Blanco's request to Bush stated, "...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster" She also specifically requested assistance with evacuation.
http://www.answers.com/topic/kathleen-blanco

The New Orleans plan got people alive to the Superdome. They languished there and some expired there for days after the storm before FEMA showed. Are you going to now shift the Bottom line to say that FEMA is NOT designed to respond pre-disater and post-disaster??

Your statements PERIOD should really be marked by QUESTION MARKS. Some like "If they could NOT handle the situation then they needed to Request Federal assistance" should just be marked wrong. What can't be questioned though, is that blame is shared by all levels of Government.

FK

[brickcitybrother]

Brick,

* * *
Lets not fool ourselves, the democrats would have eaten him alive...

* * *


You think the Democrats could eat anyone alive? Hell, I don't think they have what it takes to eat themselves alive. I think they should qualify for counseling as the world's largest dysfunctional family!

But hey that's my opinion, I could be wrong ...

BUT I Don't Think So.

[chefmike]

The lies currently being discussed in every media outlet (with the possible exception of FAUX news, which I suspect you watch) involve the current regime's lies and coverup regarding the events preceding Katrina. Dense? Yes, you are dense enough to defend yet another big lie and coverup by this unelected prez....

Keep up the good work...maybe you'll get a white house press pass like jeff gannon...or are you....?

Oh my god I am so done with you. EVEN The things you post are talking about POST Katrina. And anything PRE Katrina is in regards to the things that Brick Posted.

People can try to blame the Fed Gov all they want for the failed evacuation of NO and lives being lost.. but that is just to deflect their own fault.

So I am guessing that you think that the Fed Gov should have jurisdiction in State Affairs anytime they think they need to? Please answer this question.

No. I don't think that the federal govt. should have jurisdiction in state affairs anytime that they need to. The Repugs that you continue to make excuses for apparently do, when it suits their twisted agenda. And I provided you with examples which you have chosen to ignore.

[chefmike]

Don't hold your breath Sam, waffle boy NEVER answers your question till he's made a fool of. He never thinks on his own, just spouts moveon.org bullshit all day. He actually thinks people read his downloaded material.

Once again you are apparently trying to read without taking your white hood off. I have never quoted or posted links from moveon.org., not that they aren't reputable.

And the only person being made a fool of is you, everytime that you post your ridiculous troll drivel.

Why don't you just stick to watching nascar and making moonshine?

[samstl99]

Ok Chef Mike. you answered.

First on your posts. Did you read the whole article? Even though certain legislations Passed giving the Fed Gov rights to standardize the Drivers License policies. "The Bush Administration agreed to work with the states" Meaning they are not going to force them to comply.

Now you bring up instances where the Fed Gov gets involved in state affairs.. well it does when it effects Fed programs. Do you realize that anyone with a valid license would qualify for Medicare? Do you want to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare? I DONT. Also have a legal drivers License in the US gives you certain rights. As we KNOW (I dont give a shit the reason why) there are terrorists in the US trying to harm our homeland.... if they are allowed to have licenses then they will be given even more freedom and be harder to find. The rules were lax before 9/11 and I for one dont want to see it again. If that means that Illegal Immigrants cant have a drivers license.. FINE.

Do you realize that your Highways are funded by the Federal government? I dont know what state you live in, and dont care, but ever state gets ALOT of federal funding for their highways. That is why the speed limits are approved by the Fed Gov. Every state's limit may be different but it is approved by the Feds.

You are a blinded individual and cannot see the truth if it smacked you in the face. Look past your political allegiances and search for the truth. You are wayyy too close minded.

[chefmike]

I notice that you conveniently skipped over the article regarding the Schiavo case, which is an example of this supposedly conservative regime's blatant disregard of states rights, besides the partisan vote of the supreme court giving shrubya the presidency, that is...

And let's not forget shrubs endorsement of a constitutional ban on gay marriage...

Do you need more examples of the current regime's blatant disregard for the states rights that reich-wingers have always held so dear?

No, you will continue to cherry pick for something positive about the bunch of criminals in the whitehouse, or bring up something "relevant" about the LAST prez...

[samstl99]

Chef Mike... again your lack of intelligence shines through. When you can speak intelligently with out slandering anyone, then I may start to respect something you have to say.

and you use the word Criminal.. ummm who was the last President to gone through impeechment?

Now onto the Schiavo case.. Fist off I said I dont really care about this because if I was in PVS.. I would want the tube removed.

Now the Feds got involved because it was a Civil rights issue and Civil Rights is a Federal issue. THere are some things that the Feds have jurisdiction in.

Again.. you are Avoiding a VERY relevant question.. yet you are too Chicken to respond to it. You little left wing slanders words.. (shrubya) show that you are a petty and close minded individual. Keep drinkin that Kool-aid.

[yourdaddy]

Once again, waffle boy conveniently excludes the facts. 1,100 buses a day were ordered from Landstar by FEMA. 400 a day showed up from Landstar, and transported people out of town. This is in addition to the local, state, and volunteer services from out of state. These all add up to close to 2,000 buses per day. Landstar says they are owed over 200,000,000$., after receiving 59,000,000$ from the Federal Government already. That's just the first of waffle boys charges.

[mbf]

and you use the word Criminal.. ummm who was the last President to gone through impeechment?


was he convicted? NO. is impeachment comparable to a criminal court? NO.

republican vice president sprio agnew WAS a convicted criminal. and we all know how a certain Richard Milhouse Nixon evaded voth impeachment AND conviction as a criminal. through leaving office and getting pardonized through his buddy G. Ford

too funny how you "independent thinkers" get caught in your own rhethorics

[chefmike]

Once again, waffle boy conveniently excludes the facts. 1,100 buses a day were ordered from Landstar by FEMA. 400 a day showed up from Landstar, and transported people out of town. This is in addition to the local, state, and volunteer services from out of state. These all add up to close to 2,000 buses per day. Landstar says they are owed over 200,000,000$., after receiving 59,000,000$ from the Federal Government already. That's just the first of waffle boys charges.

I never even addressed the issue of the buses, I believe that it was FK that exposed you and your new ally (congrats, sammy, lol) ignorance on that subject. And the kool-aid you jackasses are drinking must be 99% moonshine...

[yourdaddy]

I wish we could get good "Moon" on a regular basis. It's a hell of a lot better than the LSD your parents ate that produced a waffle boy like you. You know mike....no one know anything about you, even though you dominate the political side of this board. It's because, like your progressive friends, you have no ideas or platform....just attack, attack, attack.

[chefmike]

I wish we could get good "Moon" on a regular basis. It's a hell of a lot better than the LSD your parents ate that produced a waffle boy like you. You know mike....no one know anything about you, even though you dominate the political side of this board. It's because, like your progressive friends, you have no ideas or platform....just attack, attack, attack.

My parents never dropped acid , or smoked weed...I wish they would have...

And the hysteria about LSD and birth defects were proven wrong when Timothy Leary was still alive. Total BS like the posts your friends have put forth (you , on the other hand just spout reich-wing troll drivel)...

Although fetal-alcohol syndrome is a documented birth defect...

Which leads me to believe that one of your mother's brothers had a fondness for the "shine"...

[yourdaddy]

Attack, attack, attack. Who is the "real" waffle boy????? Is he even a "boy". What does he really stand for??????????? Is he under 18????????

[chefmike]

his usual reich-wing troll drivel

:sleep

[samstl99]

Once again, waffle boy conveniently excludes the facts. 1,100 buses a day were ordered from Landstar by FEMA. 400 a day showed up from Landstar, and transported people out of town. This is in addition to the local, state, and volunteer services from out of state. These all add up to close to 2,000 buses per day. Landstar says they are owed over 200,000,000$., after receiving 59,000,000$ from the Federal Government already. That's just the first of waffle boys charges.

I never even addressed the issue of the buses, I believe that it was FK that exposed you and your new ally (congrats, sammy, lol) ignorance on that subject. And the kool-aid you jackasses are drinking must be 99% moonshine...

I dont need an ally. You have still YET to respond to MY question.. because you CANT.

[yourdaddy]

Answer a question.........for once!!! Who are you???? What do you believe in????????? What do you get OFF ON, besides attacking ?????????

[chefmike]

Ok Chef Mike. you answered.

[chefmike]

I notice that you conveniently skipped over the article regarding the Schiavo case, which is an example of this supposedly conservative regime's blatant disregard of states rights, besides the partisan vote of the supreme court giving shrubya the presidency, that is...

And let's not forget shrubs endorsement of a constitutional ban on gay marriage...

Do you need more examples of the current regime's blatant disregard for the states rights that reich-wingers have always held so dear?

No, you will continue to cherry pick for something positive about the bunch of criminals in the whitehouse, or bring up something "relevant" about the LAST prez...

[TrueBeauty TS]

Answer a question.........for once!!! Who are you???? What do you believe in????????? What do you get OFF ON, besides attacking ?????????


Ladies and Gentlemen, you have just witnessed what is called a "meltdown".


LOL

[Felicia Katt]

Once again, waffle boy conveniently excludes the facts. 1,100 buses a day were ordered from Landstar by FEMA. 400 a day showed up from Landstar, and transported people out of town. This is in addition to the local, state, and volunteer services from out of state. These all add up to close to 2,000 buses per day. Landstar says they are owed over 200,000,000$., after receiving 59,000,000$ from the Federal Government already. That's just the first of waffle boys charges.

Those were ordered AFTER Katrina, to get people from the Superdome and the Convention Center. There were a few hundred buses at most available to the City before the storm hit, with no trained drivers. Maybe thats not the best excuse, but its at least as good as the ones offered by Brownie et al for FEMA's missing the bus.

FK

[samstl99]

Ok Chef Mike. you answered.

Just like you to post something like that. You conveniently failed to post what I was refering to. That was in response to the question of Federal Gov and the state... etc.

I was saying you have failed to answer my question about Clinton and 9/11.

If you think Bush is to blame for all the things you say.. and I agree some of them he is... then are you willing to openly blame Clinton and the Democratic Presidency for their failure with Bin Laden. Re-read my post if you need a refresher. THEN answer.. but I know you wont because you cant do it.

[samstl99]

Felicia.. you are correct those bus totals were after the hurricane had come and gone. But saying ohh we dont have anyone to drive them is a Really lame excuse. It is not hard to drive a bus.. and it isnt like someone was going to give them a ticket.

[Felicia Katt]

Sam, I said it was not a good excuse. But is a poorer accusation because even if there were drivers, the scope of the disaster overwhelmed the capacity of the city to respond to it on every level, not just with its buses. FEMA was requested to assist, and didn't get on the scene until after Walmart and after Brian Williams, which was really too late. And the excuses offered by Brown, and the excuses offered for him by Bush were worse. No one did a heckuva job there.


FK

[samstl99]

Felicia.. I agree FEMA did a Terrible job.. as I agreed with Brick.

LOTS of blame to go around... that was the whole point of my post.. is that the whole blame doesnt belong to Bush. It goes from Mayor to Governor.. to the Feds.

[Felicia Katt]

Now onto the Schiavo case.. Fist off I said I dont really care about this because if I was in PVS.. I would want the tube removed.
Now the Feds got involved because it was a Civil rights issue and Civil Rights is a Federal issue. THere are some things that the Feds have jurisdiction in.

sorry, Sam, that is just plain wrong. They had to pass a special law, which applied only to the Schiavo case, to give the Federal court jurisdiction over what was a strictly State law issue. Bush made a political point of interrupting his vacation to fly back to Washington to sign it. And Florida passed a special law to give Jeb Bush, the Governor the right to intervene, despite Florida courts ruling in favor of the husband. Florida is one of more than 30 states in which one spouse makes the decisions -- including those involving life and death -- if the other spouse becomes incapacitated. Rights like that are one of the reasons why its so unfair that gay marriages are not legally recognized. The Florida courts ruled that law unconstitutional

Whats really sadly ironic is that Bush and Bush who are both supporters of the Defense of Marriage act would do something so offensive to marriage, by undermining a husband's right to try to give effect to his wife's wishes.

FK
sorry for the sequence of this reply, but I missed this message earlier in all the personal back and forth

[samstl99]

FK.. I am not debating the details.. or what did or didnt happen. My only response to this was that the reason they got involved was because it was a Civil Rights issue. Not debating the other points..merely the reason they interveened. Not saying who was right or wrong..etc..

[Felicia Katt]

Felicia.. I agree FEMA did a Terrible job.. as I agreed with Brick.

LOTS of blame to go around... that was the whole point of my post.. is that the whole blame doesnt belong to Bush. It goes from Mayor to Governor.. to the Feds.

Sam, it appeared you were trying to limit FEMA's blame to Post Katrina events, when they did have the right and the obligation and invitation to help before the storm hit as well.

if you now concede that there is shared blame for what happened before, during and after the storm, we don't have to agree to disagree, but can actually agree. But if you do that, you will have done a lot more than any of the Republican politicians and media types I saw in the aftermath of the storm, who kept saying "State and Local level" over and over like it was a rosary.

FK

[samstl99]

FK.. I have always said that EVERYONE was to blame. From the Mayor to the Governor.. to the Feds. The problem is that everyone is SOO focused on the Feds that the Mayor and Governor are slipping by... That is what my point of contention is. what they did was Criminal. THe Mayor deserted his city.

And on the responsibilites of FEMA. There we may have to agree to disagree. FEMA is not designed, typically, to intervene before a disaster hits. They are set up for repair, recovery, and aid. Now FEMA failed miserably in what their main charter is. And the Feds are to blame for cutting the funding for the levees,,, all of this I have agreed with in regards to Bricks post... However, you have to also realize that the state was supposed to fund a portion of the Levee construction and LA failed to appropriate the part of the funding, so the planned construction was doomed on both ends. Is it right that the Federal portion got pulled NO. It should have stayed.. and they should have had a planned redesign with the Federal portion of the money.. Unfortunately.. Federal funding doesnt work that way.. It sucks. I deal with State and local funding that works in conjunction with Federal funding.. and if the state fails to do their part.. then the Feds pull their money. NOW that being said..Personally I think the money was going to get pulled anyway to go to the "war on Terror" Again a big mistake.

[Felicia Katt]

FK.. I am not debating the details.. or what did or didnt happen. My only response to this was that the reason they got involved was because it was a Civil Rights issue. Not debating the other points..merely the reason they interveened. Not saying who was right or wrong..etc..

It wasn't a civil rights issue. It was a right wing, right to life issue, plain, pure and simple. It was a State rights case which has been fully adjudicated in the State Courts. The Republican dominated Florida legislature with Jeb Bush's full support tried to tilt the balance of powers with a blatantly unconstitutional law, and then the Republican dominated Congress, with President's Bush's urging did the same. And then the Federal courts ruled in favor of the Husband several times, which caused then Repubilican leader Trent Lott to say:
"This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change," . "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another."

it was more about rites than rights.

FK

[chefmike]

more fuckups by boyblunder bush and his crony "brownie"...

FEMA Acknowledges Blunders During Katrina

LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
Mon Jan 30, 5:24 PM ET



WASHINGTON - Poor planning and communication plagued FEMA's response to Hurricane Katrina, a top agency official said Monday, acknowledging that other federal departments' offers to help rescue storm victims went unheard or were ignored.


William Lokey, chief of response operations at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told senators he was unaware that the Interior Department offered to send boats, planes, trucks and personnel to rescue Katrina's victims immediate after the Aug. 29 storm hit.

"Communications and coordination was lacking, preplanning was lacking," Lokey testified at a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing. "We were not prepared for this."

article here-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_congress

[General124]

I dont care if your are Chocolate City Man's brother. He is a Buffoon, and a coward. The governor is just as dense. If they could NOT handle the situation then they needed to Request Federal assistance... to which they NEVER did. All your mayor did is flee the city and basically said to his citizens.. "Fuck you I am outta here... I aint gonna die"

Been away a while, but wanted to respond to this:

Again, you're totally wrong about Nagin. Naive? Yes. Coward? Definitely not. He never left the city as the storm came in. He left once to check on his family in Texas (I know this personally). Wouldn't you?

Again, I suggest you locate the documents Louisiana submitted to Congress and read them over. Requests for help was submitted prior to the storm. The White House has submitted nothing-- NOTHING-- to refute that. They won't submit anything at all.

People continue to cry about the horrible job New Orleans and the state did in evacuating the area. I think a helluva job was done considering that until late that week, all forecasters had the storm going into the Florida panhandle.

Forget Katrina for a second. What about Rita? Why has there been no help to Western Louisiana and far East Texas? Where did Blanco go wrong there? Where are the complaints about the job Texas did evacuating. Did you not see the backlog of highways there? How about the abandoned cars? The 25 elderly people that died sitting in traffic? The contraflow lanes that took forever to put into place? Well thank God Rita didn't hit Houston.

Tell me this. And this is not direct at anyone directly. Forget all of the fucking blame games. I'm over them because it obvious no one is going to change anyone else's mind. It goes beyond Katrina...

Anyway, if we take all the blame. Everything is Louisiana's fault. Are you going to help? Will you lend a hand? If so, welcome to the family. If not, get out of the way and let those who sincerely wants to help do. Too many people are suffering because of all this bickering.