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natina
12-07-2008, 11:59 PM
WHY ARE THERE SO MANT MEXICAN,LATIN TRANSSEXUALS?

A Lifestyle Distinct: The Muxe of Mexico

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/weekinreview/07lacey.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=muxes&st=cse


PHOTO'S AND COMMENTS/STORY

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/12/07/weekinreview/1207-MUXE_index.html


Carmelo López Bernal, 13, at the recent annual town-wide muxe celebration, the occasion for his first appearance in the identity of a girl. More Photos >


By MARC LACEY
Published: December 6, 2008
Mexico City — Mexico can be intolerant of homosexuality; it can also be quite liberal. Gay-bashing incidents are not uncommon in the countryside, where many Mexicans consider homosexuality a sin. In Mexico City, meanwhile, same-sex domestic partnerships are legally recognized — and often celebrated lavishly in government offices as if they were marriages.


In Mexico, Beyond Gay and Straight But nowhere are attitudes toward sex and gender quite as elastic as in the far reaches of the southern state of Oaxaca. There, in the indigenous communities around the town of Juchitán, the world is not divided simply into gay and straight. The local Zapotec people have made room for a third category, which they call “muxes” (pronounced MOO-shays) — men who consider themselves women and live in a socially sanctioned netherworld between the two genders.

“Muxe” is a Zapotec word derived from the Spanish “mujer,” or woman; it is reserved for males who, from boyhood, have felt themselves drawn to living as a woman, anticipating roles set out for them by the community.

Anthropologists trace the acceptance of people of mixed gender to pre-Colombian Mexico, pointing to accounts of cross-dressing Aztec priests and Mayan gods who were male and female at the same time. Spanish colonizers wiped out most of those attitudes in the 1500s by forcing conversion to Catholicism. But mixed-gender identities managed to survive in the area around Juchitán, a place so traditional that many people speak ancient Zapotec instead of Spanish.

Not all muxes express their identities the same way. Some dress as women and take hormones to change their bodies. Others favor male clothes. What they share is that the community accepts them; many in it believe that muxes have special intellectual and artistic gifts.

Every November, muxes inundate the town for a grand ball that attracts local men, women and children as well as outsiders. A queen is selected; the mayor crowns her. “I don’t care what people say,” said Sebastian Sarmienta, the boyfriend of a muxe, Ninel Castillejo García. “There are some people who get uncomfortable. I don’t see a problem. What is so bad about it?”

Muxes are found in all walks of life in Juchitán, but most take on traditional female roles — selling in the market, embroidering traditional garments, cooking at home. Some also become sex workers, selling their services to men. .

Acceptance of a child who feels he is a muxe is not unanimous; some parents force such children to fend for themselves. But the far more common sentiment appears to be that of a woman who takes care of her grandson, Carmelo, 13.

“It is how God sent him,” she said.

Katie Orlinsky contributed reporting from Juchitán, Mexico.



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/07/weekinreview/07lacey.xlarge1x.jpg

A Lifestyle Distinct: The Muxe of Mexico

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/weekinreview/07lacey.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=muxes&st=cse


PHOTO'S AND COMMENTS/STORY

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/12/07/weekinreview/1207-MUXE_index.html

Alyssa87
12-08-2008, 12:00 AM
to help ease the population crisis?

tsntx
12-08-2008, 12:03 AM
bc hotel construction is on the rise

"housekeeping, fluff your pillow? jack you off?"

longwave
12-08-2008, 12:37 AM
because the border patrol is more likely to let a "woman" through than a man?

Alyssa87
12-08-2008, 12:49 AM
wtf?

im not mexican, but im offended for them.
dont you need a passport or visa to get boarder control to let you thru?
theyre not all illegal aliens.

and why the quotes around WOMAN? ugh.

longwave
12-08-2008, 12:50 AM
joking

SarahG
12-08-2008, 12:52 AM
You're all wrong, it's because (at least according to social conservatives), they will get "special rights" once reaching minority status.

Alyssa87
12-08-2008, 12:56 AM
joking

:?



anyone laughing? :P

longwave
12-08-2008, 01:03 AM
joking

:?



anyone laughing? :P

i was, just a lil bit. :oops:

tsntx
12-08-2008, 01:21 AM
joking

:?



anyone laughing? :P

i was, just a lil bit. :oops:

i did too lol

but i think u gotta be dealing w/ border issues to appreciate the humor in it

we were all making jokes no harm or foul
this boards in english anyway :P

tsntx
12-08-2008, 01:23 AM
You're all wrong, it's because (at least according to social conservatives), they will get "special rights" once reaching minority status.

the only special rights ive seen are inside "manuel" labor vs outside

serving/cleaning vs cooking/mowing
:twisted:


its just racial humor get off of it or get off on it

Felicia Katt
12-08-2008, 02:45 AM
for conservatives, equal rights are "special rights" . They act as if there is a limited supply of rights and if others get rights, theirs will somehow be devalued.

Its total BS but thats why they keep trying to defend marriage and the border while we are really under assault by Wall Street and Walmart.

FK

drock
12-08-2008, 06:54 AM
wtf?

im not mexican, but im offended for them.
dont you need a passport or visa to get boarder control to let you thru?
theyre not all illegal aliens.

and why the quotes around WOMAN? ugh.

that's why they're called illegals because most of them are getting through without proper documentation.

Ts CinthyaNY
12-08-2008, 07:10 AM
joking

:?



anyone laughing? :P

i was, just a lil bit. :oops:

do not find anything to laugh about it... I Am Mexican and not necessarily a Illegal alien...

Something to admire for it's taking My town society as a example of tolerance ... yes I am from Juchitan, proud "Muxhe".

Celeste
12-09-2008, 06:41 AM
Ive always wondered the same thing?! And they are usually the most Vicious ones... Maybe its in the water

michneo
12-09-2008, 06:57 AM
do not find anything to laugh about it... I Am Mexican and not necessarily a Illegal alien...

Something to admire for it's taking My town society as a example of tolerance ... yes I am from Juchitan, proud "Muxhe".

You're beautiful

Tiffany Anne
12-09-2008, 07:58 AM
Thanks for posting this...fascinating!

uber_nerd
12-09-2008, 09:09 AM
Me gusto latinas.

drock
12-09-2008, 09:21 AM
joking

:?



anyone laughing? :P

i was, just a lil bit. :oops:

do not find anything to laugh about it... I Am Mexican and not necessarily a Illegal alien...

Something to admire for it's taking My town society as a example of tolerance ... yes I am from Juchitan, proud "Muxhe".

Damn U sexy!

Ts CinthyaNY
12-10-2008, 06:59 AM
Thanks guys (Michneo & Drock ), doing a little effort to be pretty ! :D

needsum
12-10-2008, 07:34 PM
Thanks guys (Michneo & Drock ), doing a little effort to be pretty ! :D

Cynthia, you are very pretty indeed!

blakpadi
12-11-2008, 01:22 AM
Not sure,but thankful !!

sdman
12-11-2008, 01:23 AM
It does seem like most are mexican or brizillian but not complaing.

eddymunster90
12-11-2008, 01:28 AM
I think it's easier for gay mexican men to be accepted by the general populus if they are trans(TS/TV?CD). It's easier for them to find men that might never mess with a gay man if their in drag. Two men kissing or messing around on some mexican street is going to draw some hate violence, while what appears to be a hot lady and her man will not.

Of course this dressing in drag and acting fem rolls into them going further with hormones and surgeries.

I say this cause many of the mexican bars I go to ususally have a Tgirl or two floating around talking to men. that wouldn't be accepted if that person was just a gay male.

dc_guy_75
12-11-2008, 01:57 AM
Ever since I got into the scene, I've always wondered why there are so many t-girls from spanish/portuguese speaking countries.

It seems like the amount of t-girls is correlated to "macho" cultures.

Perhaps they find their culture suppressive and its more difficult to hide their feminine nature?

Maybe it because they're not white so there's no "golden parachute"? I realize this doesn't make much sense, especially if they're from countries with few white people.

Culturally, maybe its simply easier to be consider trans as opposed to gay.

I tend to think that latina girls are usually more passable than most, which is why there seem to be so many.

Then again, I really have no idea. Are there any studies on this?

dc_guy_75
12-11-2008, 05:26 AM
Did this topic get removed?

<--- edit... guess not

johnie
12-13-2008, 05:27 AM
Ever since I got into the scene, I've always wondered why there are so many t-girls from spanish/portuguese speaking countries.

It seems like the amount of t-girls is correlated to "macho" cultures.

Perhaps they find their culture suppressive and its more difficult to hide their feminine nature?

Maybe it because they're not white so there's no "golden parachute"? I realize this doesn't make much sense, especially if they're from countries with few white people.

Culturally, maybe its simply easier to be consider trans as opposed to gay.

I tend to think that latina girls are usually more passable than most, which is why there seem to be so many.

Then again, I really have no idea. Are there any studies on this?

Don't let the over representation of T-girls from poor countries in porn and escorts site mislead you. I've often wondered the same things you stated above, but also realize that since porn and the escort business is dominated by T-girls from poorer countries, the reason behind that might be because of lesser economic oppurtunities for them.

American Trans women are protected (atleast theoretically) from work place discrimination by law. I doubt such laws exist in many of these third world countries. As a result, trans women are forced to make a living in porn and escorting becuase they may not be able to find other gainful employment.

SarahG
12-14-2008, 04:39 PM
American Trans women are protected (atleast theoretically) from work place discrimination by law.

That's not true at all. Discrimination against trans people is legal in most states, even in states where discrimination against gays is illegal. I can tell you right now it is legal in NY & PA, although some cities have local ordinances prohibiting trans discrimination (there are a few in PA with those ordinances, I cannot say if NYC has any such policies).

An employer in most parts of the US can flat out say "you're trans!?! we don't hire freaks here, get the fuck out of my office" and that's perfectly legal.

But I tend to think that even with that level of discrimination & that lack of discrimination law- trans people in the US have more economic opportunity than people in some other countries.

I can't comment on what discrimination is like for trans people in say, Brazil or Thailand... but I would imagine both countries would on general terms, be more de-sensitized to a trans job applicants than, say, small town Ohio.