Dan Savage takes on "Am I Gay?"

[xxxian]

In tomorrow's column:

"I recently read the novel A Melon for Ecstasy for an English class, and an interesting debate came up. It's about a guy who is attracted to trees and goes around drilling holes into trees so that he can "seal the deal." Though he feminizes the trees, he cares nothing about actual human females. The debate centered on this question: Is this man heterosexual? Or is he really gay? Is he having vaginal sex with a woman or anal sex with a man?

RF

If the male protagonist in A Melon for Ecstasy is having sexual intercourse with lady-trees—"feminized" trees—then the male protagonist is a true-blue, red-blooded, lady-tree-fucking straight boy, RF.

But it doesn't surprise me that a room full of mostly straight college students would seek to cast doubt on this character's heterosexuality. "Heterosexual" for many young people is practically synonymous with "normal." Introduce college-age straight kids to a not-so-normal heterosexual character, and they'll spend the rest of the afternoon searching for evidence that the dude is gay. He can't be straight—he's not normal! This explains the ability of some in your class to look at lady-tree fucking and see, of all things, "anal sex with a man." Isn't santorum bad enough? Do we have to worry about splinters now too? (Queer-studies kids who read homosexuality into obviously straight fictional characters are, for the record, just as annoying.)"

Substitute tree for t-girl? :-)

Xian

[DL_NL]

This obsession with labeling your sexuality is getting old.

[Odelay]

Savage was an early believer that attraction to transsexuals is not gay behavior. He's been writing about it in his sex advice column for years. I think he really nails it with this piece. If the guy feminizes the tree then he's more or less straight. If he masculinizes the tree then he's likely gay. If he does neither then perhaps the guy is asexual.

[Castor_Troy05]

Sexuality is not about whats between the legs, it's about the overall package, if you're gay, you like manly men with all the associated traits. Non gay you like women why complicate it.

I'm sure Jenn will appear soon though and say this thread is the height of faggotry then question the sexuality of all whom replied in it

[dannyboyz]

I have a feeling the guy is fucked up.....though right now i am fitting my christmas tree with a bra and panties.....i will let u know how that goes

[BeardedOne]

Trees? :shock:

That guy isn't gay, he's fucked in the head. :roll:

[laoda8]

Hangups: Do you has some savage?

[daveskarety]

I still don't understand why people argue so vehemently on here all the time about whether they're straight or not. Who gives a fucking shit? We, (I'm speaking for the guys here), obviously all like TS Girls, that's why we're here. However the idea of defining myself by that one factor is totally alien to me. Speaking personally I had always dated GG's, I'd never even met a TS girl before I met my partner, who just happens to be TS, and we have been together for 6 years now.

We just clicked and the next thing I knew I had her dick in my mouth, that's that! I certainly didn't stop to second guess how Society would label me as I fell in love with her, it was, and is, irrelevant. As a side note I would like to add she had her SRS 3 years ago and it changed nothing, it just meant that the woman I love was now happier than ever, which made me happier than ever.

I simply don't care about such labels and I find the amount of people on here who spend so much of their time justifying why liking TS Girls makes you Gay/Straight/Bi/Whatever STAGGERING! If everyone could stop thinking in these narrow terms it would leave more time for them to get on with the more important things in their lives, like finding their dream TS Girl!

[Odelay]

Okay... I understand those posts here that are annoyed with the labeling aspect of this issue. From a personal standpoint, I'm annoyed too and I could care less what others may or may not label me as.

But... from a sociological standpoint I feel it is important. And people like Dan Savage have done much to break down the taboo walls surrounding certain aspects of sex. These discussions in non-GLBT forums and publications are causing people to re-check their assumptions. That's a good thing.

Saying... "let's move past the labels" is a nice idea. But until those who are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with alternate sexuality understand what alternate sexuality really is, there will be no moving on. Only the sunshine of dialogue will cause that to happen.

EDIT (since I'm on the soapbox)...

If you haven't already, check out this article in the November issue of Atlantic magazine entitled, "Its a Boy's Life"....
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/transgender-children/3

From a TS issues standpoint the title isn't the greatest. But the article is excellent. It examines issues of transsexuality at a very early age. The fact that this was published in Atlantic, a magazine that is 150 years old and is read by many, is huge. The article was also referred to or linked across the internet. This type of sociological "sunshine" outside of the GBLT world has positive implications for our world, at large.

[phobun]

Substitute tree for t-girl? :-)

Tree-girl?

It's not normal until the tree has been cut down and the roots cut out leaving a hole with just a bush growing around it.

[Alyssa87]

Dan Savage is one of my favorites.

he's poignant and hilarious on Real Time.
SIGH..how i miss my friday nites.

[daveskarety]

Hi Odelay, I agree with your point re society as a whole, and I am aware that the work of Dan Savage is very important in a society which, as we all know, can be very intolerant toward LGBT people. Anything which promotes understanding and helps prevent some of these sickening hate crimes and murders we hear about can only be a good thing. In my opinion it is people wrestling with their sexual preferences that go out and commit these horrible acts out of their frustration, like the Col. Frank Fitts character does in 'American Beauty'.

I probably went off-topic a little as my post was the result of the disbelief and frustration I have experienced reading some of the 'I'm not gay/straight/whatever posts on HA. I would have presumed that that kind of debate was irrelevant on here of all places. I still cannot fathom why anyone on this board would agonise over such points.

We all know how fucked up society is but this is a place devoted to the beauty and the love of TS Women isn't it? I would expect, on here at least, that people would just relax about what turns them on and drop the internal dialogue. Sex and love are two of the most precious things we can experience in life and I hate to think of ANYONE denying or tormenting themselves over such pleasure because of the label which society attaches to it, life is way too short!!

[Odelay]

Well said. And may I add that I think it's great that you're in a LT relationship with a TS. Doubly cool that you're cool with her SRS. Wish you many more happy years together. Thx for sharing your story.

[tsntx]

Sexuality is not about whats between the legs, it's about the overall package, if you're gay, you like manly men with all the associated traits. Non gay you like women why complicate it.

I'm sure Jenn will appear soon though and say this thread is the height of faggotry then question the sexuality of all whom replied in it


lol hi everybody!!!


thats not quite how i work

i pretty much agree w/ what you wrote

tho to be gay your ideal man or men that youre attracted to do not need to be manly at all
i know very gay men that only like very small kimber sized nelly fags
BUT NOT TRANS GIRLS

i think its more of a "i may be gay but look how straight i appear next to my flamboyant bf" bc they arent as secure w/ themself as they should be

tho the whole question doesnt make much sence to me... what is sexually arrousing about trees? how does one feminize a tree? im guessing by throwing a wig and a bra on it like some of yall do w/ those club kid faggots but that doesnt make it *the tree* or the faggy kids any more "female" it just makes it some tree or a fag w/ a bra on

blah blah obligatory FAGS comment! TALK ABOUT GETTING WOOD!

[scroller]

If the guy feminizes the tree then he's more or less straight. If he masculinizes the tree then he's likely gay. If he does neither then perhaps the guy is asexual.

That doesn't make any sense. How could someone having sex with trees be asexual? ("Asexual" meaning "not sexual; without sexuality".)


For the record, I don't think the whole gay/straight thing is fundamentally coherent. I disagree with Savage here; if the guy is fucking trees he's not straight or gay, he's a tree-fucker.

[phobun]

tho to be gay your ideal man or men that youre attracted to do not need to be manly at all
i know very gay men that only like very small kimber sized nelly fags
BUT NOT TRANS GIRLS.
If a guy salivates over shlongs, the whole gay argument becomes alot of squabbling about shades of pink.
After all the huffing and puffing, very pink is still pink.

[phobun]

I disagree with Savage here; if the guy is fucking trees he's not straight or gay, he's a tree-fucker.
It is a metaphor for gay, because he likes wood.

[Felicia Katt]

what is the guy if he feminizes the tree but instead of drilling into it, he sucks the sap out of it? LOL

meow

FK

[johnb]

felicia, if you were ever bitten by a snake, I would suck the...Oh, never mind

[Odelay]

what is the guy if he feminizes the tree but instead of drilling into it, he sucks the sap out of it? LOL

meow

FK

I think that makes him a bottom. And I have no idea what the forest metaphor is for that... tree rot, perhaps? 8)

[tsntx]

tho to be gay your ideal man or men that youre attracted to do not need to be manly at all
i know very gay men that only like very small kimber sized nelly fags
BUT NOT TRANS GIRLS.
If a guy salivates over shlongs, the whole gay argument becomes alot of squabbling about shades of pink.
After all the huffing and puffing, very pink is still pink.


im pretty sure you meant LIGHT pink is still pink

and if you didnt.... it still applies!

[yodajazz]

I still don't understand why people argue so vehemently on here all the time about whether they're straight or not. Who gives a fucking shit? We, (I'm speaking for the guys here), obviously all like TS Girls, that's why we're here. However the idea of defining myself by that one factor is totally alien to me. Speaking personally I had always dated GG's, I'd never even met a TS girl before I met my partner, who just happens to be TS, and we have been together for 6 years now.

We just clicked and the next thing I knew I had her dick in my mouth, that's that! I certainly didn't stop to second guess how Society would label me as I fell in love with her, it was, and is, irrelevant. As a side note I would like to add she had her SRS 3 years ago and it changed nothing, it just meant that the woman I love was now happier than ever, which made me happier than ever.

I simply don't care about such labels and I find the amount of people on here who spend so much of their time justifying why liking TS Girls makes you Gay/Straight/Bi/Whatever STAGGERING! If everyone could stop thinking in these narrow terms it would leave more time for them to get on with the more important things in their lives, like finding their dream TS Girl!

Thank you for your refreshing post and attitude. Your story makes a point too. A post op on here, once advised pre op women to dump their boyfriends, once they plan to have srs, because he is going to leave anyway. Some here have said that by being with a pre op at all means the person is obessed with dick, even if he pays it no attention at all.
You demonstrate that sexual attraction is really more about the whole person, than what many jaded people here, believe.

[Justawannabe]

While I agree that it shouldn't matter as much as it does here, the reality is the meaning of 'gay' is very important on a social level. Right now the term is being used as a scare mongering lever in politics and more local power plays. Having a term even partially associated with you being equated to 'dangerously not normal' is a scary thing. It basically legitimizes violence and legal exclusions, and must be fought if you don't want to be the target of such things. For most folks that means fighting the label being applied to you as much as trying it means fighting the definition in general for the more activist types.

As has been thrown up on here... gay should be defined as attracted to someone in the same gender role (to avoid 'illusion artist' issues) as the you.

Being attracted to 'nelly girls' or manly men, as long as their all still visibly male gender role, that's gay if your male. A woman attracted to a 'nelly girl' style man is still straight, though unusual.

And the tree guy... obviously neither... he's sexually attracted to trees, he's not feminizing them... he's drilling a hole... could just as easily be a mouth as a vagina or asshole and you would be sol on telling you male tree from you female tree. Even more on point, if I cut a hole in someone's leg and fuck that, it doesn't make me anything sexually but fucked up... I didn't feminize them by carving an undifferentiated hole in them.

or Hole does not equal feminine say... as we all come with at least two.

Sean

[xxxian]

I just liked what Dan said about a group of a-holes in a college class labeling anything beyond missionary-position, male on female, penis-to-vagina sex as "gay." It's so typical that people are so afraid of anything but "normal" in our puritanical society.

So what if the guy is a tree fucker (or tranny fucker), don't label him gay for it. So what if I like to snowball with my wife after I come in her mouth? so what if I like to get pegged by her giant strap on? so what if i like to lick my own cum off her boots?

My point of posting the excerpt from his column was to make a point about labeling: How about not "labeling" at all?

Xian

[Tiffany Anne]

... what is sexually arrousing about trees?

Well, in the videos I've seen, you seem often to be looking for a piece of wood. :lol: