I'd like to hear the liberals defense...

[trish]

Even Keith Oberman, whose quite the liberal apologist, decried the "Palin in a noose..." effigy. So I don't think you have a complaint against the media. Not very much was made of the "assaulted backward B" girl either, and I'm not complaining. There's enough of that kind of shit in the media.

As for criminal charges, that's up to law enforcement. Is it a criminal offense to burn or otherwise symbolically kill an effigy? Probably not, if it's done on your own lawn or your own back porch. It's apparently not even a criminal offense to yell "Kill Obama" in a mob...as long as he's not near enough by to be immediately endangered. What made that episode newsworthy was Palin not only seemed to agree but encouraged the ugliness. If the cops can find a charge and make it stick it's okay by me. My guess is the defense will come back with the first amendment.

[dafame]

Ok if you insist I'll defend it. Ready. Here it comes. THIS PERSON WASN'T A PART OF THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN AND HIS ACTION DOESN'T REPRESENT LIBERALISM NO MORE THAN THE "BIG BLACK MAN CARVED A B INTO MY FACE" REPRESENTS CONSERVATISM.

There, I said it. Idiot. You were obviously needing some attention because there was absolutely no need for this post.

[natina]

or not going to be supporters of mccain/palin


I really do not see much reason for anyone who frequent this board to support mccain/palin unless your deep in the closet.


you should come out of the closet cause its dark ,cold and lonely in there DarkThanos


you could suck more TS cock without the great guilt

[dafame]

god damn, this board is overrun by complete fucking idiots...if you hang an effigy of a black man in a noose, it is treated as a hate crime, but I guess you are too stupid to realize that...

My post is just as relevant as any of natina's incessant liberal rants, you mindless stooge dafame...

Thank you for an actual thought out response trish...

No actuall "hanging an effigy of a black man in a noose" is not treated as a hate crime. KNOW THE FUCKING LAW BEFORE YOU MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE LAW. Otherwise you just expose you dumbassedness (pun intended).

Whether or not it should be treated as a hate crime is another subject, but while we're on the subject I have a request for you.

Can you please give us the back-story on the history of white women being lynched in this country? Once you do that I think you'll be giving your argument a little more credence. Thanks. I'll be waiting.

Oh one more thing. I think it's pretty bold of you to suggest that it's "conservative" to view this subject the way that you do? When you make a statement like "I can't wait to see how the LIBERALS defend this" is to suggest that liberals don't see anything wrong with an effigy of a white woman being hung. Or it could mean that you're saying that conservatives don't have a problem with a black man being hung. Which is it?

[dafame]

WRONG

If it were Obama, not only is it a black person in the noose, but a SPECIFIC individual..that precise targeting elevates it to hate crime status...


You should stop now because you're wrong again. There is no amount of times that you can say this that will eventually make it true. You're embarrassing yourself.

But for a second let's imagine that it is true that if you depict a (specific) black man being killed that you will be charged with a hate crime. Would that be considered a "LIBERAL" law?

[Gh0strider]

Dark Thanos you are absolutely wrong as that has already happened this year at a college where an Obama cut out was hung on a college campus. The students were suspended but there were no charges brought against the perps and definitely no hate crimes.

NOW spin that...cuz you are wrong wrong and again wrong

[Oli]

of the "Palin in a noose" Halloween decoration...no criminal charges are being brought up, due to the fact it is a "Halloween decoration"...and there really isn't much outcry in the media or around the country for its symbolism...

but had that been OBAMA in the noose............................................. ..

such hypocrisy...

To me, DT, it is deplorable. To me there is no difference between a Palin or an Obama in the noose. Both are unacceptable. This is however, IMO, a direct result of the 'attack' politics that have been practiced in this country for the last 20 years.

The practitioners are on both sides and have been very successful. Rush Limbaugh is one of the most visible, but hardly the only one. They sell "Us vs. Them", demonize those with opposing points of view and don't allow dissent. They take complex issues and boil them down to simple bullet point answers. They've succeeded in making 'Liberal' a pejorative when our country has historically been referred to as a Liberal Democracy. They sell the idea that their side are the 'Real' America, and hurl invectives at those on the other side (Socialists, Commies, Nazis, Liberals etc..)

We are all guilty of allowing this to happen. Political discourse can be heated, but should remain respectful. I'm as guilty as anyone else but I try to remind myself that we all have the right to our own opinions, and neither my opinion nor anyone else's is 100% correct for everyone.

The good thing I see is, regardless of the winner on Tuesday, neither of these men are ideologues, and both try to reach out to a wider group of citizens than their core. I hope that translates into a more tolerant, open discussion of the problems we face.

[natina]

Noosed Palin mannequin removed from yardHalloween effigy taken down amid protests; flaming McCain display still up



updated 5:42 a.m. PT, Wed., Oct. 29, 2008
WEST HOLLYWOOD, Calif. -

Amid a growing frenzy of protesters and media surrounding his home, Chad Morrisette decided his noosed Sarah Palin mannequin should be cut loose.

He and his partner had created the effigy of the GOP vice presidential hopeful three weeks ago and vowed to keep it outside their home until Halloween, despite widespread criticism from neighbors and local officials. On Wednesday the mayor convinced Morrisette the mannequin should come down.

"I explained to them that this could be dangerous to you and your neighbors," said Mayor Jeff Prang, noting that he received hundreds of venomous e-mails from people offended by the display. "They were totally unprepared for this kind of international attention, for the amount of impact on their home and their neighborhood."
Besides a constant flow of angry callers, the homeowners had received a visit from the Secret Service and criticism from a Los Angeles County supervisor who ordered an investigation into whether the effigy constitutes a hate crime.

Then, on Wednesday, neighbors covered up the Palin mannequin with sheets, and more protesters showed up later in the day accompanied by a man driving a vehicle adorned with an effigy labeled "Chad," with a noose around its neck, said sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore.

"This evening, it wasn't as friendly," he said.

Prang said he drove by after work and saw protesters and media around the home with helicopters overhead. Morrisette saw the mayor and waved him inside for a talk.

Afterward, the mannequin came down, but Morrisette kept the rest of his Halloween decor intact, including a display of Palin's running mate, John McCain, popping out of a flaming chimney.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27430997/

[chefmike]

When you consider that Palin the bigoted bimbo is doing her best to incite a lynch-mob mentality throughout the US, a display with her hanging from a noose could be considered poetic justice...sure gave me a chuckle...

[chefmike]

Not to worry, the Mcsame people are busy catching up. I count three Obama effigies in national news, here's one in Cali:

http://www.ktla.com/content_landing_page/?Obama-Halloween-Display-Stirs-Anger-in-R=1&blockID=121617&feedID=171

[Tara Emory]

god damn, this board is overrun by complete fucking idiots...if you hang an effigy of a black man in a noose, it is treated as a hate crime, but I guess you are too stupid to realize that...

My post is just as relevant as any of natina's incessant liberal rants, you mindless stooge dafame...

Thank you for an actual thought out response trish...

You're the biggest douchebag ever. Really, you get the prize. I'll give it to you in person and punch you in the face and kick you in the balls too.

Hanging (the effigy of- or alluding to hanging) a black man by a noose is really, really offensive. Do I have to even explain why? Do you know anything about black people in the south in say, the time period between I don't know, maybe since the moment we brought slaves to the Colonies to like I dunno, 1960? Do I have to explain this to you?

Do I have to exlplain this to you? Really, do I? Are you so ignorant of history as pertains to skin color in certain parts of America that I have to explain this to you? Do I?

-Tara

And no, it's not acceptable to have Palin in a noose, or even to joke about "only one retarted thing came out of her vagina". But Palin in a noose doesn't carry with it all the baggage of the KKK, civil rights struggle, or intimidation of black people by whites.

Now, Having Sarah Palin's head on a fruit fly after some "fruit fly research" goes horriblyl wrong.. THAT would be poetic justice and far more clever.

[natina]

YES I am playing the gay card on a TS board on DarkThanos




WRONG

If it were Obama, not only is it a black person in the noose, but a SPECIFIC individual..that precise targeting elevates it to hate crime status...

Natina, are you seriously trying to play the gay card on a TS board? And when have I supported McCain?

You fruits are unbelievable, your mothers should have taken the place of these effigies for staining the Earth with your presence...

[Tara Emory]

You're the biggest douchebag ever. Really, you get the prize. I'll give it to you in person and punch you in the face and kick you in the balls too.



wow, you have such a grasp of history to make such a statement!

Hitler has nothing on me, I'm the biggest douchebag EVER!!!

I love you fucking manly transexuals who make threats to men who would curbstomp your ugly ass in real life...I wouldn't get pinned with a hate crime, either, you aren't at all passable...

yeah, you're a douchebag (and that's a word from your own vocabulary - see http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=38768)

I can't figure out if you're black or white, but I can't see why you can't understand why mimicing lynching Obama would be considered a hate crime, while mimicing lynching Palin wouldn't.

As for insulting be below the belt (ugly, manly, etc), well, you yourself were talking about getting someone to clean up this board. I vote you off the board.

-Tara

[Tara Emory]

You're the biggest douchebag ever. Really, you get the prize. I'll give it to you in person and punch you in the face and kick you in the balls too.



wow, you have such a grasp of history to make such a statement!

Hitler has nothing on me, I'm the biggest douchebag EVER!!!

I love you fucking manly transexuals who make threats to men who would curbstomp your ugly ass in real life...I wouldn't get pinned with a hate crime, either, you aren't at all passable...

Okay, I admit, threatening to punch you and kick you in the balls was an empty and tounge in cheek threat- and I wish that came through in the message, but I might have grabbed the wrong end of the stick and ran a little too far with it. I still don't think it deserved your even angrier response, which was way over the top, and way more hurtful than what I said. Apparently you enjoy "curbstomping", which speaks for itself.

And I like to see how you didn't actually answer the other part of my question (as to the meaning of why an effigy of lyching Obama - or any African american) is more of a hate crime than a pumpkin carving depicting a noose around Palin

I admit it, I'm white Anglo caucasian as can possibly be, so maybe I can't truthfully understand what it is to be black. But I do have the unique perspective of having grown up in a liberal household in the North, then spending 4 years of college in Georgia.. When you are hanging around white people who see that you're white, they tend to let slip a racist gem or two, and just assume you think the same way as you do.. I've heard it pretty much first hand from a lot of people (though not all white people in Georgia are like that).

It's an atmosphere of intimidation leftover from the slave days, and if it's not outright spoken, it's the sort of thing you can FEEL, in the air. The south is still a totally racist place.

So if one were to say, make an Obama mannequin and hang it from a tree limb, that would be pretty clearly a sign that maybe that person is a KKK sympathiser.

And yes, if someone were to do the same with a Palin mannequin, it would be well, puzzling, and you'd wonder if they were doing some sort of reverse racist thing, and yes, that would be just as much a hate crime. But it wouldn't make any sense.

but for something like Palin in a noose on a pumpkin carving, well, that might be innocuous enough to not automatically bring up the whole spectre of KKK guys lynching black people.

There is a difference.. Not much, but enough.. I wish there wasn't, and perhaps someday there won't be, but hey, Obama in a noose flags my "hate crime alarm" more than Palin in a noose, but that's not becuase I support Obama, just that I understand the subliminal message that it carries.

-Tara

[Tara Emory]

Okay, I've had some time to cool down, but I want to elaborate why I reacted the way I did.

First off, your post is "I'd like to hear the liberals defend this" which coupled with your question I don't know if you are:

a: saying that you don't see what's wrong about a effigy of a black man hanging from a noose, or

b: don't see why a depiction of Palin on a noose isn't a hate crime.

If it's b, then well, I agree, it's just as bad- or should be as bad.

But if it's a, then I stand by my words to the effect of "how could you NOT get it why "a" is so much worse than "b"?"

I have a relatively public persona, and you can see pictures of me all over this board, I think it's pretty clear to most people that I'm not the sort of person to really go and punch someone in the face and kick 'em in the balls. I meant that more as a comedic thing.. I mean, picture that in your mind. A 135 lb ts wearing a corset punching you in the face.. Are you seriously scared of that? Is that anything but a funny image?

Now the image of you saying that in real life you'd "curbstomp" me is a hell of a lot scarier. And yeah, I'm scared (really- I'm not being sarcstic). TS's get murdered like all the time. We get stalked, sometimes by fans. For me to put a certain amount of my sexuality for all to see makes me pretty vulnerable to all sorts of yes- hate crimes-.

Anyway, a definition of curb stomp:

curb stomp- The act of placing a victim, face down, mouth open on the curb of a sidewalk.
The offender then proceeds to 'stomp' on the back of victims head. The act is probably fictional. Sterotypical act of "White Power" groups.

Now I don't know you DT, and you don't even have a photo on your profile, so I don't know if you are a 300 lb skinhead who is conflicted about his attraction to TS's that he visits board like this while insulting many of the girls left and right or what..

But threatening to "curbstomp" me?. I mean, you're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding, becuase I think even threatening that online might be a hate crime, or at the very least justification for being reported to the moderator.

It's like you cut me off in traffic, and then I instintively gave you the finger.. Then you turned your car around and rammed me and ran me off the road in retaliation.

Tell me I have this wrong. I take back the punch and kick (but not calling ya a douchebag- that's just name calling), if you tell me the curbstomping is not something you'd really do if you met me.

-Tara

[Tara Emory]

I typed all of that my iPhone, sorry for the spelling errors...

Thanks DT,

I think we both got out of hand. I guess that's what happens when people sometimes can't tell if they're saying things tounge in cheek.


Looking forward to catching your next examples of hyperbole and trying to figure out if you're dead serious of playing devil's advocate.


I'm sorry too. I get pretty emotional and I often read the first post in a thread, get pissed off, react and then go and look at all the responses and realize I was either wrong or my question had already been answered.

Actually, I think you'd find that we have a lot in common (video games, comic books). And I'm glad you didn't mean all that awful stuff. Being do-able in your book counts a lot to me.

-Tara