So many gay references

[melissacarter]

I can never understand it. I receive emails everyday that start off with, "I've never been with a man, or ever touched a cock but..." Yea, thanks Jack for reaffirming your're straight. As a complete stranger and someone I'll probably never meet, I really value your complete and total heterosexuality. And thanks for the indirect insult.

Because it is an insult. Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, there are many of us who resent and refute the association with the GLB coalition. Thus, the GLB"T" community now implies that TG are a subset of gay men, men with tits basically. Not true.

Personally, I want nothing to do with the GLB community (and I wish them all the luck) because, although they have political clout that could help us, ultimately we will suffer by being misrepresented in mainstream society. And thereby misunderstood. Then we will never reach our goals of equality as women.

Fact is, gay or bi is a sexual preference. Gender is identity. They are distinct and separate. And yet often taken to be the same.

Fact is, "top" and "bottom" are gay terms derived from the gay community. I tolerate those words in my escort business but I refuse to use those labels in my personal life. I view myself simply as a woman, and my man is the dude and that is that. As an escort I am TS. If he wants to suck my dick, hey that's cool, he can be a client but he's not gonna be my man.

Portions of this message have been made possible with a contribution from the John T. Macarthur Foundation.

[Anon_E_Miss]

I'd agree entirely. I am part of an LGBT group, reluctantly, but I have raised the exact points you have, and only continue my association so I can be a contact point for other TS people, and direct them to other ts groups and as a place to hang out.

I appreciate the LGBT help, and sure lgb TS people may be interested in the other aspects, but as you put it (perfectly):



Fact is, gay or bi is a sexual preference. Gender is identity. They are distinct and separate. And yet often taken to be the same.

I just don't think there is any other organisation yet around that can offer the resources. The problem is there will never feasibly be enough TS people in an area willing to associate with a group in the way LGBT groups can.

I don't know quite what the solution is in terms of helping people just beginning to explore their gender beyond sticking with them for now, but I agree with everything you said.

[melissacarter]

The problem is there will never feasibly be enough TS people in an area willing to associate with a group in the way LGBT groups can.

So why the fuck is "B" in the GL to begin with? 90% of the world is" B", but only a small percentage admit to it openly.

Do you know how many married guys are out there, labeling themselves straight, making homo jokes at the neighborhood barbeque, soon to be on their knees at the glory hole of an adult bookstore, testifying to the almighty cock? They feel they can't admit their gay side or the life they worked so hard for will come crashing down like a house of cards. And it just might.

"Honey, I like sucking cock...oh no divorce papers!"

[ARMANIXXX]

So,

Do you have a problem with the LGBT fighting for TS's rights?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

[melissacarter]

So,

Do you have a problem with the LGBT fighting for TS's rights?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

Yes. ultimately we will suffer by being misrepresented in mainstream society. And thereby misunderstood. Then we will never reach our goals of equality as women.

[flabbybody]

The most prejudiced people against transgenders are New York gays. These so-called enlightened liberals basically think all tgirls are sex-crazed drama queens who emulate Ru Paul

I'm not saying every gay person is like that, but I've meet a lot who fit the description.
and God help you if you confide to a gay friend that you dig tgirls sexually. I won't make that mistake again. I'd tell every person in my extended family first

[yodajazz]

I can never understand it. I receive emails everyday that start off with, "I've never been with a man, or ever touched a cock but..." Yea, thanks Jack for reaffirming your're straight. As a complete stranger and someone I'll probably never meet, I really value your complete and total heterosexuality. And thanks for the indirect insult.

Because it is an insult. Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community...


Melissa, as for those e-mailing men, one only needs to look at this forum to find women saying that men seeking pre-ops are gay. They also have said many, many times that men only like them because of the penis. Much of the general society would say the same thing. I would define them as a form of bisexuality. But most people think that a bisexuals like masculine men, as well as women. So I think the men that say that, are trying to get across they do not like men, but are attracted to a woman like you. That is a very important distinction that not all trans women seem to understand.

Some trans women have stated here, that if a man is with a pre op he will eventually go for masculine men. This is not the real case with men who are attracted to transwomen, except in a very small percentage of cases, (as evidenced by the usual response here). So I think these men are trying to clear up an important misconception. Men who are attracted to trans women, struggle with this question. But most will recognize their true desires, to mean that they do not like men, but they like women and special women like you.

[Justawannabe]

I find it funny that people who are so afraid of being misrepresented insist on misrepresenting the interests of the people interested in them.

Top and Bottom are often used in the gay community, because only in the gay community was it safe, even mildly, for a man to ever be a bottom or a woman a top. The bondage/domination community also use the terms for a type of play that is not dom/sub but where the roles can still be fluid.

You say that gay/lesbian/bi is a sexual preference but that gender is identity. I can agree in some ways, but I can't agree that it is any more defining for the majority of people, or that it is any more of a choice. It can still be life threatening to be out in many places

Much of the association between the gender and glb community is because many people spend time among that community figuring out if the belong in the gender group, and at least superficially, glb folks have been much more reasonable as a place to explore than the hetro community which, historically, tends to beat us to death.

I am not saying that the gender community doesn't have unique issues to deal with, and doesn't need to do it's own PR, but one of the basic lessons of politics is that you take the friends you can find when you a small minority. Oh, and you don't shit on them the moment it looks like, somewhere down the road, you might not need them anymore.

Much like the girls around here always say anyone who touches a dick is gay... I'm beginning to wonder if all the girls flipping out over it are just sifting their homophobia and fear of not being 'real' women onto the guys.

That or I'm just tired and sick of the hate and conflating sexual activities with sexual identity... remember folks... just because a girl sucks a dildo doesn't mean she's hetro, just because a guy has finger up his but doesn't make him gay... that's based

Anyway... like I said just tired of the hatefest that seems to be so important to this bored.

Sean (at some point I need to put a pic up... so I can show that I put my identity behind my words... course for that I need a pic... hmm...)

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Men just say that to reaffirm themselves that they are str8! It's sugar coating, cum on with cherry on top said in a way to entice you with and hopefully get discounted rates and no clock watching! lol CAN YOU BLAME THEM? ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[dc_guy_75]

Good luck in separating your professional life from your personal life.

[Azrial]

why are trannies so stuck on the traditional male/female identity/relationship????....i for one, would think that in going through such an ordeal as having the mind of one gender and the body of the other would be more than understanding of the gray area in between.

believe me, i feel you on the annoyance of the guys who say shit like that to you, it's obvious homophobia. but i'm honestly offended at the lack of understanding, for lack of a better word, for transgender admirers. beside the fact that you make a living off of them. it seems like many trannies seem to be annoyed at the fact that there's a sect of people who actually prefer them to have a penis.

you say tops and bottoms are "gay" terms, as if they don't apply to the transgender community. why? i brought this up in another post. why do people so foolishly view the world as black and white?? man/women, right/wrong. you got sarah palin on tv talking about the good guys and the bad guys, what is this a fucking cartoon?

sorry i'm flipping out, but i'm drunk and my sexual preferences are being questioned, much like your sexual identity is by those who discriminate against you. i guess you've taken the if you can't beat 'em, join 'em approach

[melissacarter]

why are trannies so stuck on the traditional male/female identity/relationship????

If you can't understand why TS are fixated on the essence of feeling like and being treated as a woman, then you don't know the first thing about trannies.


sorry i'm flipping out, but i'm drunk...i guess you've taken the if you can't beat 'em, join 'em approach

I ain't joining shit, and I prefer you wait to respond till you're sober.

[Lover]

What a can of worms. This one is never going to be settled in a way that we all can agree on.

You said: "I can never understand it. I receive emails everyday that start off with, "I've never been with a man, or ever touched a cock but..." Yea, thanks Jack for reaffirming you're straight. As a complete stranger and someone I'll probably never meet, I really value your complete and total heterosexuality. And thanks for the indirect insult. Because it is an insult. Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

When I see a woman with a cock being complimented by a guy who loves women with cocks and she gets angry and bitter and insulting, she might be a good candidate for SRS.

When women reach a point in their lives where they regard most of the men who love them as "johns" (or in your case, "johns" or "fags"), their heads aren't in the healthiest place they could be.

I haven't lived your life and can't even imagine what it's been like for you. But as someone who cares, I hope you don't mind my saying that once you let go of the anger and bitterness and maybe even get to a point where you're actually thankful for those who love you, you will be a lot more beautiful to everyone.

[Azrial]

why are trannies so stuck on the traditional male/female identity/relationship????

If you can't understand why TS are fixated on the essence of feeling like and being treated as a woman, then you don't know the first thing about trannies.


sorry i'm flipping out, but i'm drunk...i guess you've taken the if you can't beat 'em, join 'em approach

I ain't joining shit, and I prefer you wait to respond till you're sober.

sober or not, my thoughts have credence, i particularly know they do because you failed to respond to my main point.

you ignored how i felt about your statements, consolidated my feelings into two short sentences that you only cared to respond to, and deposited the remaining ideas in the trash, if it makes you feel any better, that's right along the lines of every women i've ever dealt with in my life

[Lover]

For those of you guys who read Azrial's post above this one and found yourself thinking that a drunk man is easier to understand than a sober woman, it means you're a fag.

[Janie2261]

It seems like a lot of hot air is wasted on trying to put people into categories: TS, gay, LGBT, whatever. When you take this labeling to its logical conclusion, it is nonsensical.

Each person, if they are honest with themselves, is simply trying to get comfortable in his or her own skin. Maybe they like men, or boys, or girls, or trannies, or some combination. Whatever. There is no need to try to put a label on yourself or others. It just leads to disagreement and unhappiness.

If everyone would simply be himself or herself and let others be themselves -- without labeling -- we'd all get along a lot better.

[melissacarter]

So I think the men that say that, are trying to get across they do not like men, but are attracted to a woman like you.

It is understood from the get-go that these men are interested in women, and I understand their special turn-on that a woman they find attractive has a penis. If he were interested in another man he would not be drawn to me. They need not make that clear; all TS know this.

Man-to-man relations are entirely different from man-TS relations. So for the guy to bring up the distinction, it shows me he

a) questions his "straightness" (which is a joke, almost all of us are bi)and

b) views me as more of a man than a woman.

Now, this is how TS interpret it. So before you guys go on the rampage, just remember that- it's how we see it because we are in constant and unending fear that we are not going to be treated or viewed as a woman. We think to ourselves, "why is he bringing up his lack of attraction to men? He wouldn't say that to a natural born woman."

[Solitary Brother]

I can never understand it. I receive emails everyday that start off with, "I've never been with a man, or ever touched a cock but..." Yea, thanks Jack for reaffirming your're straight. As a complete stranger and someone I'll probably never meet, I really value your complete and total heterosexuality. And thanks for the indirect insult.

Because it is an insult. Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, there are many of us who resent and refute the association with the GLB coalition. Thus, the GLB"T" community now implies that TG are a subset of gay men, men with tits basically. Not true.

Personally, I want nothing to do with the GLB community (and I wish them all the luck) because, although they have political clout that could help us, ultimately we will suffer by being misrepresented in mainstream society. And thereby misunderstood. Then we will never reach our goals of equality as women.

Fact is, gay or bi is a sexual preference. Gender is identity. They are distinct and separate. And yet often taken to be the same.

Fact is, "top" and "bottom" are gay terms derived from the gay community. I tolerate those words in my escort business but I refuse to use those labels in my personal life. I view myself simply as a woman, and my man is the dude and that is that. As an escort I am TS. If he wants to suck my dick, hey that's cool, he can be a client but he's not gonna be my man.

Portions of this message have been made possible with a contribution from the John T. Macarthur Foundation.



Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

If you look and ACT like a girl then for the most part you ARE one.
He isnt with you to arm wrestle or anything like that its because your soft feminine and girly.....ALL straight guys are attracted to this thats why Some trannys get laid.

[harryknuckles]

BEAUTIFUL STRANGER.

It is sad, how a few negative people can outshine all the positive people out there unconditionally accepting and admiring the TS community.

You make alot of judgements about sexuality. I'm not going to say you are right or wrong. What I am going to say is I agree with you that most people are bisexual. Individually dealing with it is difficult and how everyone goes about it is of course unique.

From my own perspective, I've always been attracted to the feminine form that has a male genitalia. Why? I don't know and can't explain. I find it sexually exciting. More so than anything else. Am I attracted to men? No. Not in the conventional sense. The male form does not excite me. Does it make me angry? No. is it confusing? Sometimes yes. There are many posts about this subject on HA.

I have great respect for all the transgendered people, dealing with so much ignorence in America about the issue of gender.
I think you are beautiful. Especially when you were in the chat room last night. There are many more folks like myself who embrace you than there are those who reject you.
I hope this helps in some way or another.

[francisfkudrow]

If he wants to suck my dick, hey that's cool, he can be a client but he's not gonna be my man.


This is the part I have trouble with. I understand you want to be recognized as a woman, but shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy receiving oral sex from someone who finds them attractive?

[yodajazz]

So I think the men that say that, are trying to get across they do not like men, but are attracted to a woman like you.

It is understood from the get-go that these men are interested in women, and I understand their special turn-on that a woman they find attractive has a penis. If he were interested in another man he would not be drawn to me. They need not make that clear; all TS know this.

Man-to-man relations are entirely different from man-TS relations. So for the guy to bring up the distinction, it shows me he

a) questions his "straightness" (which is a joke, almost all of us are bi)and

b) views me as more of a man than a woman.

Now, this is how TS interpret it. So before you guys go on the rampage, just remember that- it's how we see it because we are in constant and unending fear that we are not going to be treated or viewed as a woman. We think to ourselves, "why is he bringing up his lack of attraction to men? He wouldn't say that to a natural born woman."

Sometimes you have to look at a person's intentions more than their words. Do they want to insult you? No, they are calling you because they feel some kind of attraction. Are they nervous and not sure what to say? Yes. Do they know what (ts,gg) women are thinking? No. So the moral is: Try not to look for insults. If someone really wants to insult you, they will make it clear by thier actions.

You said:
"If he were interested in another man he would not be drawn to me. They need not make that clear; all TS know "
If the girls all know this, how come they are constantly saying the men only want them for one thing, the male part. Some woman even wrote recently, that a man who was with a pre op and did not touch the cock, still wanted the woman only for her cock, but was just afraid to acknowledge it. Another time, a man who wanted to be with his girlfriend and a pre op at the same time, was called as gay, and no other women tried to say otherwise in the posts that followed.

But I agree with you. A man would not be drawn to you if he was into men. I just don't think, all girls know this, from deep inside themselves.

[melissacarter]

BEAUTIFUL STRANGER.

It is sad, how a few negative people can outshine all the positive people out there unconditionally accepting and admiring the TS community.

You make alot of judgements about sexuality. I'm not going to say you are right or wrong. What I am going to say is I agree with you that most people are bisexual. Individually dealing with it is difficult and how everyone goes about it is of course unique.

From my own perspective, I've always been attracted to the feminine form that has a male genitalia. Why? I don't know and can't explain. I find it sexually exciting. More so than anything else. Am I attracted to men? No. Not in the conventional sense. The male form does not excite me. Does it make me angry? No. is it confusing? Sometimes yes. There are many posts about this subject on HA.

I have great respect for all the transgendered people, dealing with so much ignorence in America about the issue of gender.
I think you are beautiful. Especially when you were in the chat room last night. There are many more folks like myself who embrace you than there are those who reject you.
I hope this helps in some way or another.

Yes, sometimes I get all judgy and before I know it this person is being cast to Hell and that person goes to Purgatory, and then I stop and think, wait, I'm just a fucking tranny in Jersey...now let's get back to handwashing these bras.

[melissacarter]

If he wants to suck my dick, hey that's cool, he can be a client but he's not gonna be my man.


This is the part I have trouble with. I understand you want to be recognized as a woman, but shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy receiving oral sex from someone who finds them attractive?

Please don't make the mistake of taking me seriously. I fall for my righteous blather all the time.

I don’t know…in truth, I wake up in the morning sometimes after a good long rest, then re-read my ranting from last night and think, “did I really say that shit?”

What I stand for one moment I oppose the next. My beliefs are granite today and oatmeal tomorrow. You shouldn’t take anything I say seriously, I change opinions, I am fickle, I am…a woman.

[Anon_E_Miss]

This is the part I have trouble with. I understand you want to be recognized as a woman, but shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy receiving oral sex from someone who finds them attractive?

Look up GID. :P

[Justawannabe]

Thanks to the guys who posted here... you were all much easier to understand than I was.

On the look up GID... one of the issues with GID right now is that a lot of people misplace their discomfort as hate of the genitals. You don't see the same level of hate directed at the scrotum or wide shoulders or thin lips...

It's visible, it's iconic and it draws attention to itself... so gets a lot of hate, but the issue is with being able to interact as a woman. With both yourself and the world.

Part of the problem with the therapy available right now is a reliance on surgery to fix the issue rather than working on self perception alongside and equal to surgical intervention.

I've seen to many girls get hooked into constantly hacking at their own bodies, trying to erase anything that might be perceived to be male. The penis is the obvious target (and an appropriate one, don't get me wrong) but it goes beyond that. Often ignored is the reality of many women having features that are stereotypically male.

This is were the intersex and transsexual discussions have common ground. The medical community has placed a huge emphasis on being 'normal' through surgical intervention... despite the risks and lack of real confidence that often results, despite the delay of starting to really live your life as you wait to be made normal.

I'm just saying that you need to really spend time on understanding your body and taking advantage of the good feelings it can bring. I blindfolded one girl I knew and licked instead of sucked and she had great time, with no guilt, in part because she wasn't stuck with the image, just the sensations.

Most folks do the same thing with the anus, assume through social conditioning that it shouldn't provide any pleasure, but that's changed dramatically over the past few decades. Go look at how folks used to perceive anal sex being 30 years ago... it was all pain for the recipient and sadistic for the penetrator. Most men still see it as essentially gay, though even that is changing, and have emotional reactions far out of line with the reality of what is suggested by an adventurous partner.

Perception is reality most of the time...

Sean

[scroller]

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, as soon as I see the man reference I know a TS has got a man side. Denying it means it's there.

Or maybe that's an unfair, rather hateful way to think?

[Anon_E_Miss]

Interesting, and clearly well thought out post Justawannabe. I wanted to reply on a couple of points, though to stop getting repetitive I'll just get out out the way this is purely a personal response with no other evidence.


On the look up GID... one of the issues with GID right now is that a lot of people misplace their discomfort as hate of the genitals. You don't see the same level of hate directed at the scrotum or wide shoulders or thin lips...

There's a massive difference between genitals and the other aspects however. I reacted the same way any woman forced to have an unwanted penis put between their legs would have - that is to say to want it removed and to undertake appropriate efforts to that end. It's quite different to having wider shoulders or thinner hips, you can't ignore it or fail to notice it, it's always there, it's the original cause of the other damage, and I can't think of any way to word it other then what I would describe as a dulled sense of rape.


It's visible, it's iconic and it draws attention to itself... so gets a lot of hate, but the issue is with being able to interact as a woman. With both yourself and the world.

I actually wrote a post on a similar issue today on a personal diary. On a logical note, you're perfectly right - I should definitely get my face sorted first and breasts if I want them bigger. But it's impossible to really think like that in the situation.


I've seen to many girls get hooked into constantly hacking at their own bodies, trying to erase anything that might be perceived to be male. The penis is the obvious target (and an appropriate one, don't get me wrong) but it goes beyond that. Often ignored is the reality of many women having features that are stereotypically male.

This is were the intersex and transsexual discussions have common ground. The medical community has placed a huge emphasis on being 'normal' through surgical intervention... despite the risks and lack of real confidence that often results, despite the delay of starting to really live your life as you wait to be made normal.

At the end of the day, it all comes down what the surgeons will actually do (I've been told no chance in hell at some of my requests) and how much cash there is to do it. I know the whole "surgery is the answer" thing goes against the points in your post but what else is there? Even if it was possible I wouldn't want to be male, so I may as well try and make what I have as good as possible. Surgery isn't perfect, but neither is having GID in the first place.


I'm just saying that you need to really spend time on understanding your body and taking advantage of the good feelings it can bring. I blindfolded one girl I knew and licked instead of sucked and she had great time, with no guilt, in part because she wasn't stuck with the image, just the sensations.

Most folks do the same thing with the anus, assume through social conditioning that it shouldn't provide any pleasure, but that's changed dramatically over the past few decades. Go look at how folks used to perceive anal sex being 30 years ago...

You're right on this, of course. After reading through this site and some associated reading material over the last couple of days it's opened my mind a bit, and I can understand you comment where previously I'd have just dismissed you as wrong. I even hope the thinking will help with my current relationship (so on a side note you'll be glad to know I'll be leaving you all alone soon :P), but with regard to the original point this came from, I still don't think things could ever be comfortable enough to enjoy something like receiving oral sex as things stand. It's too much "you're a guy" re-enforcement and too much anger associated to be pleasurable or even almost comfortable. And on that point, I reckon at least some TS girls would agree.

I also feel like I'm derailing the thread more then it already is, so sorry about that. :oops:

[melissacarter]

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, as soon as I see the man reference I know a TS has got a man side. Denying it means it's there.

Or maybe that's an unfair, rather hateful way to think?

LOL, hateful??? These guys don't get to the level of hate, they just don't matter that much.

And it's totally fair. I'm not laying my unsolicited sexual history on anyone. You guys like picking fights with TS, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove our dicks down your throat.

[scroller]

You guys like picking fights with TS, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove our dicks down your throat.

You TS like picking fights with guys, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove your dicks down our throat.

[Justawannabe]

thanks for the response Anon-E-Miss

Surgery is definitely part of the answer... just need to remember it's only part.

Very minor quibble - penis isn't the source of the issue, that's the testis. Penis is just a clit and urethra drafted into the wrong army.

I held the hand of a couple of girls through a lot of surgery, and it helps in some ways, but doesn't seem to get through to the real feelings. It just shifts emphasis to another part of the face or body. The hunt for that last piece of evidence that they were once boys.

I know acceptance is unlikely, but a lot of the T-girls I've met seem to be better off if they can see themselves not as women who lived horrible lives but as women who had a boyhood and are now having a womanhood. That is instead of trying to erase the boyhood as if it never happened. As I said I don't expect that to work, just an ideal state.

A bit like wishing depressives could just get up and start exercising and going about their lives. It actually helps a lot, but oh so hard to do.

And I also agree... hard to enjoy something that has become a target of such hate... just saying there needs to be some bypass, as its the same flesh you'll have after the surgery, and at least for my ex, you can still tell what came from where by feel.

And always sad to see anyone who makes a thoughtful post disappear. This is basically a porn site that I tend to drag into being something it's not intended to be, and always happier to when I have others around doing the same thing.

Funny thing is I came here just to do some research when an ex decided to get into the business... but I've hung around.

Sean

[Erisis]

Portions of this message have been made possible with a contribution from the John T. Macarthur Foundation.
Love the PBS reference!! Hi-Larious!!
Also, some very interesting sentiments. Your division of perspective between professional and private relations put some ideas into words that have been rolling around in my head for a while. Thanks!

Slainte!
Erisis

[TsVanessa69]

What a can of worms. This one is never going to be settled in a way that we all can agree on.

You said: "I can never understand it. I receive emails everyday that start off with, "I've never been with a man, or ever touched a cock but..." Yea, thanks Jack for reaffirming you're straight. As a complete stranger and someone I'll probably never meet, I really value your complete and total heterosexuality. And thanks for the indirect insult. Because it is an insult. Basically he's saying, "I don't want to be with a regular guy, I want to be with a guy that looks like a girl, kinda like you..."

When I see a woman with a cock being complimented by a guy who loves women with cocks and she gets angry and bitter and insulting, she might be a good candidate for SRS.

When women reach a point in their lives where they regard most of the men who love them as "johns" (or in your case, "johns" or "fags"), their heads aren't in the healthiest place they could be.

I haven't lived your life and can't even imagine what it's been like for you. But as someone who cares, I hope you don't mind my saying that once you let go of the anger and bitterness and maybe even get to a point where you're actually thankful for those who love you, you will be a lot more beautiful to everyone.Thank you! very well said!

[Tika]

I can't help but think that being in the sex trade and directing attention to your genitals makes any such complaining about "I've never been with a man or ever touched a cock" kind of ridiculous.

If you view yourself as a woman, do you advertise your "professional services" as such or do you advertise as a TS? If you don't want your clients coming on to you for what you're offering...

That's like a grocery store getting pissed off that customers are coming and buying groceries. "We want to be appreciated for our architecture, dammit! How dare people come here and seek groceries!"

[melissacarter]

I can't help but think that being in the sex trade and directing attention to your genitals makes any such complaining about "I've never been with a man or ever touched a cock" kind of ridiculous.

If you view yourself as a woman, do you advertise your "professional services" as such or do you advertise as a TS? If you don't want your clients coming on to you for what you're offering...

That's like a grocery store getting pissed off that customers are coming and buying groceries. "We want to be appreciated for our architecture, dammit! How dare people come here and seek groceries!"

No you miss the point. Its like a shopper offering his life preferences for apples over oranges to the grocer. He should just buy some fruit.

[Tika]

I guess you're missing your own point AND mine. Don't whine about people chasing your cock if that's what you're wanting them to chase.

If you don't want cockchasers, don't mention that you're a transsexual in your ads and see what the reaction is when they show up. If you think you're a woman, then why qualify it with "transsexual"? If your cock doesn't matter to you, why should it matter to your clients?

Because it DOES. You ranting and railing about cockchasers is silly. Your penis s what differentiates you from a GG. Well that, your prostate, testicles, and other various bits of your XY heritage.

Closing your eyes and rocking back and forth chanting "I'm a woman, don't pay attention to my cock, love me for who I am" (so to speak) is immature and ignores reality. You've got what you've got. You're a whore, and you're basically waving what you've got at people and expecting them to pay money for it. Do NOT be dismayed and disappointed when they ask for what you're offering.

And people think that whoring for a living is just the best thing ever, life-affirming and fulfilling. El oh el.

P.S. At least when I make pizzas, nobody cares if I have a cock or not, Melissa.

[melissacarter]

I guess you're missing your own point AND mine. Don't whine about people chasing your cock if that's what you're wanting them to chase.

If you don't want cockchasers, don't mention that you're a transsexual in your ads and see what the reaction is when they show up. If you think you're a woman, then why qualify it with "transsexual"? If your cock doesn't matter to you, why should it matter to your clients?

Because it DOES. You ranting and railing about cockchasers is silly. Your penis s what differentiates you from a GG. Well that, your prostate, testicles, and other various bits of your XY heritage.

Closing your eyes and rocking back and forth chanting "I'm a woman, don't pay attention to my cock, love me for who I am" (so to speak) is immature and ignores reality. You've got what you've got. You're a whore, and you're basically waving what you've got at people and expecting them to pay money for it. Do NOT be dismayed and disappointed when they ask for what you're offering.

And people think that whoring for a living is just the best thing ever, life-affirming and fulfilling. El oh el.

P.S. At least when I make pizzas, nobody cares if I have a cock or not, Melissa.

Jeez you are thick. You DO miss my point so I will spell it out in simple terms. I KNOW I'm a TS and clearly advertise as such, duh. They know it too. My point is I don't want to hear the lengthy diatribe on how they as a client are not gay. And by going on about how they are SO not gay, they are infering that this appointment they seek with me may be a gay experience.

They should save it for their shrink. I don't want to hear it. And its demeaning to be used as a sounding board so they can justify their homosexual feelings. Do you understand that simple point?

[melissacarter]

I guess you're missing your own point AND mine. Don't whine about people chasing your cock if that's what you're wanting them to chase.

If you don't want cockchasers, don't mention that you're a transsexual in your ads and see what the reaction is when they show up. If you think you're a woman, then why qualify it with "transsexual"? If your cock doesn't matter to you, why should it matter to your clients?

Because it DOES. You ranting and railing about cockchasers is silly. Your penis s what differentiates you from a GG. Well that, your prostate, testicles, and other various bits of your XY heritage.

Closing your eyes and rocking back and forth chanting "I'm a woman, don't pay attention to my cock, love me for who I am" (so to speak) is immature and ignores reality. You've got what you've got. You're a whore, and you're basically waving what you've got at people and expecting them to pay money for it. Do NOT be dismayed and disappointed when they ask for what you're offering.

And people think that whoring for a living is just the best thing ever, life-affirming and fulfilling. El oh el.

P.S. At least when I make pizzas, nobody cares if I have a cock or not, Melissa.

Wow sucking all that tranny cock has really affected your reader comprehension. What an amazingly long dissertation on nothing.

Well, at least you got to call me a whore, feel better now?

[Justawannabe]

Actually, Melissa, you may also be missing the point of your client, or are at least projecting onto them an intention that may or may not be there.

You say that they are inferring that this appointment they seek with you may be a gay experience. A better statement might be that they fear it may be perceived as gay, by either the provider or the world at large should their involvement become public knowledge. Given the general hatred of 'fags' shown by both a lot of providers and the general public, that's a real and reasonable fear of long term consequences.

They may see what they are doing as making an appointment with a woman with something extra, but that doesn't mean the world does.

Would help if there was a term for liking trans folks that would differentiate it from gay, so those afraid of that term, and it's consequences, could at least refer to themselves as something else. As lots of folks have said around here... whatever you are, if you like trans folks, your not straight in the eyes of almost anyone but maybe the folks in the room during the main event.

Sean

[melissacarter]

Actually, Melissa, you may also be missing the point of your client, or are at least projecting onto them an intention that may or may not be there.

You say that they are inferring that this appointment they seek with you may be a gay experience. A better statement might be that they fear it may be perceived as gay, by either the provider or the world at large should their involvement become public knowledge. Given the general hatred of 'fags' shown by both a lot of providers and the general public, that's a real and reasonable fear of long term consequences.

They may see what they are doing as making an appointment with a woman with something extra, but that doesn't mean the world does.

Would help if there was a term for liking trans folks that would differentiate it from gay, so those afraid of that term, and it's consequences, could at least refer to themselves as something else. As lots of folks have said around here... whatever you are, if you like trans folks, your not straight in the eyes of almost anyone but maybe the folks in the room during the main event.

Sean

Well Sean thank you for yet another thought provoking and intelligent reply.

What you say is true however those fears would most likely be laid to rest by a seasoned admirer. Experienced gentlemen know that TS want to be perceived and addressed as women even though we both understand we are an exotic variation thereof.

If it is privacy and discretion they have concerns about they should simply ask "is your place private and discreet?"

If they are still at the beginning stages of accepting their turn ons and where TS fit into their sexuality, well they need a psychoanalyst first not a TS. I would not drive this point home so dogmatically if I didn't hear this story again and again. You would be amazed how often I hear it.

[DL_NL]

People are generally self-centred, ignorant, insensitive and plain dumb. Why should an escort's clients be any different?

My solution: I see mouths move, but I just don't listen to the crap that comes out.

[Justawannabe]

True enough, asking about privacy would be perhaps the better answer, and a psych would probably be helpful, if most of them didn't have issues with this stuff already. Maybe put a psych's contact info on your page... just in case they are shy about knowing who to talk too? joking there...

And DL_NL is sadly right about most folks to at least some degree. Not sure his solution works for me though... I always hated not being listened too... hate to do it to someone else.

Sean

[melissacarter]

People are generally self-centred, ignorant, insensitive and plain dumb. Why should an escort's clients be any different?

My solution: I see mouths move, but I just don't listen to the crap that comes out.

Good point.

Question, does NL stand for Nederlands?

[doasuwill]

I am now 40, divorced twice and finally at peace with my sexuality. Having dated tgirls and women since I was 18, it took me this long to realize I am just a sexual being.
My straight friends in my hometown thought I was gay and the gay people I knew thought I was straight, it's my personal joke, but it's true.
I was sitting in a bar in Toldeo, back in the early 90's I think it was called Ceasar's, flirting with a genetic Women and having a tgirl name chichi flirt with me, the genetic Women made a point about how much more of a Women chichi was than she was, and that statement has stuck with me to this day.
Having been dealing with the cock mentality for years, I used to think I liked Men because I liked a tgirl who had a cock, but Men just aren't my thing, we are hairy, and some men are just plain nasty.
Tgirls skin is so much softer, I think it's the hormones and many act much more lady like, so many genetic Ladies now days dress to much like Men, IMHO. My dream girl is a post op tgirl because she has wanted to be a Lady her whole life. The tgirl appreciates the finer things about being a Woman that the genetic Woman takes for granted.
All Men who like Tgirls don't just want you ladies for your cock, I know it may be hard to imagine, but we are out here.

[macjay18]

Interesting, I have a bit to do with the police force and when they bring in a transvestite they will refer to him as a man in drag conversely they will refer to a passable transsexual as a girl...until documents are available (sometime they are not willing to disclose this information) and then they are refered to as a transsexual (in most cases police try to be PC) but of course you have idiots that refer to them as "that thing" or "IT". I think the sexuality thing is interesting because a transvestite who likes men will often be referred to as a gay man but as they transition and depending how passable they become the topic of their orientation tends to fade away a little. But in saying that in my country if a transgendered person was to enter into a relationship with another man and wanted to ratify it with whats called a Civil Union, the couple will be recognised but will be recognised officially but as a gay couple on paper.
My preferences is shemales bottoming to me it is just like a boy and a girl having straight sex but for some reason the role reversal is a repellent for me. I view shemales as effeminate in that they wear makeup, like to dress up etc etc and i because of this I personally would perceive shemale who is in this feminine role and bottoms as a straight female...perception is a funny thing huh. hope this makes some sense.

[melissacarter]

Interesting, I have a bit to do with the police force and when they bring in a transvestite they will refer to him as a man in drag conversely they will refer to a passable transsexual as a girl...until documents are available (sometime they are not willing to disclose this information) and then they are refered to as a transsexual (in most cases police try to be PC) but of course you have idiots that refer to them as "that thing" or "IT". I think the sexuality thing is interesting because a transvestite who likes men will often be referred to as a gay man but as they transition and depending how passable they become the topic of their orientation tends to fade away a little. But in saying that in my country if a transgendered person was to enter into a relationship with another man and wanted to ratify it with whats called a Civil Union, the couple will be recognised but will be recognised officially but as a gay couple on paper.
My preferences is shemales bottoming to me it is just like a boy and a girl having straight sex but for some reason the role reversal is a repellent for me. I view shemales as effeminate in that they wear makeup, like to dress up etc etc and i because of this I personally would perceive shemale who is in this feminine role and bottoms as a straight female...perception is a funny thing huh. hope this makes some sense.

Macjay, it makes a lot of sense. Yes we work for every ounce of femininity and its all patiently and hard earned and I think most TS will agree, never enough. That's why I stated originally I found it insulting that I would have to listen to a guy go on and on about his ambivelent feelings towards homosexuality. That's not how we want to be perceived.

May I add FINALLY we are getting some quality and thought provoking responses to the topic. Thank you, gentlemen.

I do have a question though macjay; you said "when a transgender person enters into a relationship with another man". See, you said "another man" I found that curious and somewhat contradictory to your sentiments. You have 30 minutes to explain yourself. Good luck.