Corporate Porn

[Bob's Tgirls]

This is a subject that has been on my mind on and off for some time.

Mainstream porn has been largely run by large companies for many years. Before I go further, understand that I very much appreciate what some of the pioneers such as Larry Flynt, Hef and their organizations have done to pave the way for all of us (individuals to large companies) who operate adult entertainment businesses.

That said, when I got into being a photographer in this genre, I did so as a fan. I looked at it as a hobby initially - just something to do for fun. I consider myself one of the pioneers in this genre. My colleague Seanchai of course is one of those pioneers as well. He got me started. So you have us, the other Grooby photographers, my other photographers such as DJ Asia who also has his own site, Sammy Mancini and others. We all got into this because we're into tgirls. We hang with them. They are our friends and lovers, etc.

For some years, it was only us working in this genre. Now there is what I refer to as corporate porn entities working here. The photographers and owners of these entities don't appear to be into transsexuals at all. They don't know or care about them. They just shoot or purchase content and produce websites and DVDs. They're just in it for the buck.

They may produce good content, but nothing more. I've been complimented many times by both members and models that I actually care about the girls. They can see it in what I write and how I go about things. Others I mentioned above are well liked by the girls as well.

So what prompted me to write this is a recent conversation with a model. She was contacted by one of those entities. She mentioned to them that she has been working with one of the Grooby photographers and me. The person said something like we have professional photographers; we don't just take pictures in our backyards. So apparently the representative of this company is encouraging models not to work with us. By the way, this company probably used our sites to find models because they don't go to the clubs. They don't hang out with the girls. They don't participate in the transgender community. By the way, I won't mention the names of any of those entities here. But you savvy fans can figure it out.

So I want to know who you fans of transsexual porn prefer to support with your hard earned money - fans like yourselves who happen to be working in the business or corporations who may have more technical expertise? So I put up a poll question. I'd also like to see what my colleagues have to say on this subject.

[GroobySteven]

Good posting Bob.

I'll get back to it in more depth - email me the mutt who said that to the girls so I can call his boss :-)

[hondarobot]

Hmmm, a honest affinity for ts girls, vs the higher quality of "corporate porn"? It would seem to me that an honest affinity for ts girls would cause you guys to raise the standards of the material you produce to equal or surpass that of corporate porn. It's not like you guys near the top of the pyramid can't afford to, or are unable to do that.

As far as I know, the ts community has a surplus of talent. Two examples: Allanah Starr and Tara Emory. Both girls do some of the best layout, design, artistic work I've seen in the entire adult community. Are any of you guys writing them checks for creative input on your sites?

I may be wrong, but I don't see a great deal of communication/cooperation between the mostly male producers and the female talent in the ts community. Just writing a check for a photo/video shoot, and clinging to shabby web design, is what will eventually lead to the more established corporations taking over the scene.

[Mac_Hine]

Hmmm, a honest affinity for ts girls, vs the higher quality of "corporate porn"? It would seem to me that an honest affinity for ts girls would cause you guys to raise the standards of the material you produce to equal or surpass that of corporate porn. It's not like you guys near the top of the pyramid can't afford to, or are unable to do that.

As far as I know, the ts community has a surplus of talent. Two examples: Allanah Starr and Tara Emory. Both girls do some of the best layout, design, artistic work I've seen in the entire adult community. Are any of you guys writing them checks for creative input on your sites?

I may be wrong, but I don't see a great deal of communication/cooperation between the mostly male producers and the female talent in the ts community. Just writing a check for a photo/video shoot, and clinging to shabby web design, is what will eventually lead to the more established corporations taking over the scene.

you pretty much summed up my feelings exactly.

you guys (seanchai and bob) have the best contacts and relationships with the hottest tgirls in america, yet both of your sites are hopelessly outdated. putting aside the aforementioned shabby web design, the camera work on a lot of the video, is, well, amateur. i remember seanchai posting somewhere saying it's supposed look amateur, like a "fly on the wall." but those days are over. there are hundreds of regular porn (plus a handful of shemale) sites who film scenes like they're for a dvd, and you can really appreciate the difference.

and while pictures and short solo clips are fine and all, i think the demand for tranny porn has reached the point to where you both should consider focusing on hardcore content. i post on a handful of different trans porn related message boards, and people are clamoring for quality hardcore stuff. 'corporate' sites are able to provide this, but the girls aren't usually the caliber you guys provide. you wouldn't believe how many times i've read posts saying that if kimber james or linetrap or whoever did hardcore, they'd be more than willing to pay for it.

the fact of the matter is if i'm going to spend $35 a month on a website, i'm not really caring about how good of friends the site owner is with the models, or if the person shooting them is into transsexuals. frankly, i'm looking for the best jack material. :twisted:

[tsmandy]

I think this is an issue that extends way beyond tranny porn. Whether you are talking about mom and pop stores getting run over by box stores, counter-cultures getting commercialized (in my experience with punk and indie/ DIY culture), it's a decision that consumers are constantly forced to make.

Corporations are interested soley in maximizing profits, it's nothing personal.
Although it sounds like that guy was an asshole.

[timxxx]

Flashier & more polished corporates all the way, if it means the end of all the Amateurish shit (bad lighting, bad sound, clicking cameras etc,)
that some sites try & charge top dollar for. If competition from the corporates forces standards up. Then that’s all good.
.

[MrF]

I've been on the Grooby sites since their inception, and I like many things about them: the mostly softcore style appeals to me, the amateurish feel is more "real" and genuinely sexual, the new and fresh girls which they manage to find since they are well-connected with the community. I appreciate that they care about the girls and treat them well (maybe the corporate guys do too, though). And the photography has improved over time. Sure, their ~10 year old sets look bad by today's standards, but that's because they are old. Finally, I liked their forums -- they are entertaining and educational. Overall, I give Seanchai et.al. a lot of credit for being pioneers and innovators.

That being said, it's a BUSINESS, so if another site attracts me with a better product, I may give them my business instead. Free market economics.

[timxxx]

I've been on the Grooby sites since their inception, and I like many things about them: the mostly softcore style appeals to me, the amateurish feel is more "real" and genuinely sexual, the new and fresh girls which they manage to find since they are well-connected with the community. I appreciate that they care about the girls and treat them well (maybe the corporate guys do too, though). And the photography has improved over time. Sure, their 5 to 10 year old sets look bad by today's standards, but that's because they are old. Finally, I liked their forums. Overall, I give Seanchai et.al. a lot of credit for being pioneers and innovators.

That being said, it's a BUSINESS, so if another site attracts me with a better product, I may give them my business instead. Free market economics.

Hello seanchai brother :wink:

[slinky]

I produce porn. I've done it for years. I mostly shoot "amateur look" stuff, but I've done lots of other stuff as well. If you're gonna throw a hissy fit because someone said you "shoot porn in your backyard", you really need to grow a thicker skin. What do you honestly expect them to say "Gee, those guys are so much better than us, you should stick with them?".

Everyone is entitled to push whatever competitive advantage they have. You push yours (you've done it all over this thread), and everyone else pushes theirs. That's not some evil empire, it's normal business practices. If some girl won't shoot with you anymore because someone said to her that you shoot in your backyard, it means it hit home for her and she took it as a valid criticism. now, don't take this to mean that there's nothing they could have said which could be over the line. If they said "Oh, those guys don't pay half the time" or, You know you have to fuck those guys for free as part of the shoot", then you have something to bitch about, because they are smearing you with lies.

And as much as the more amateur sites are closer to the community, the big guys often pay substantially more. And that's where I think the real complaint is: that these guys with bigger budgets are coming in and raising the bar so that the girls now expect a lot more money, which may be higher than the budgets which smaller companies can afford to work with. but this is the real test to see how much a part of the community you are and how you treat the girls. When we shoot black amateur content, the girls usually take about 50% to 70% less than when they shoot for the bigger guys. Why? Because they see me out every night and I treat them nicely, but more importantly we are VERY undemanding at the shoots. We let them get away with all sorts of shit which no big producer would.

I think it's a real litmus test of how much a part of the community you REALLY are to see who the girls believe and who they shoot with. If you're really the nice guys who treat them great, etc. they will continue to shoot with you. I haven't seen ANYONE locking up TS talent into exclusive deals (perhaps I'm missing what's actually going on). It also seems like you are asking girls, for whom this is where they make the money to live off of, to make a personal sacrifice for your benefit, while draping yourself in a purple flag and screaming "COMMUNITY".

Another point: what a lot of TS girls know is that if the photographer isn't into TS girls, they aren't going to try to fuck them during after the shoot. And I know plenty of TS girls who've had that experience with " I won't mention the names of any of those entities here. But you savvy fans can figure it out ". So as far as they are concerned, it's actually a plus working with the "big corporate porn" guys.

Now, let's take the whole issue of the entire world of modeling, adult and mainstream. I don't see the editors of Vogue complaining "oh, that photographer is gay. he has not interest in these girls. All he wants to do is charge us the most he can for the photos. he's not involved in the modeling community. He doesn't stay out all night at Pasha and do coke with our girls".

And are you really expecting your customers to buy inferior product because you hang out with the girls you shoot? Do you really mean that? You really think your surfers should or would care? I think you are fooling yourself if you do. if anything, it sounds like you are expecting your customers to finance your lifestyle, and I'm not sure that is their responsibility.

As far as using your sites to find the girls because they don't go to the clubs, if you're going to put up the girls contact info on your site, what do you expect? And if you're not doing that, how are they doing it? You think they can't scan Eros, craigslist, etc. and pick up girls to work with? You don't think that when some girl works for them and gets paid 3 times as much she's not on the phone to all of her friends saying "You know how much XYZ productions pays?".

Now, all this comes off as putting you down - but I give you all the respect you deserve for your years of supporting girls when no one else would bother with them; and having the only sites around for a long time which weren't a rip-off of the surfer, and everything else which you have done which has benefited the girls and the community. But I think you have unrealistic expectations about what you are entitled to in return. Grooby makes millions of dollars a year; if the world has changed it's Grooby which needs to make decisions to change with the times, or stand by 'principles" and make less money. But it's not the girls or the surfers who are responsible for keeping you in the style to which you have become accustomed.

[GroobySteven]

Some great posts here, keep them coming.

This is feedback that all producers should read. Sadly, few will as only producers who are into the scene and genuinely care about the TS erotica industry and their product, surf and participate in boards like this - the "corporations" that Bob mentioned, will just take what they can from the industry and move onto the next thing.

Just some feedback for people talking about Grooby sites specifically.


yet both of your sites are hopelessly outdated. putting aside the aforementioned shabby web design, the camera work on a lot of the video, is, well, amateur. i remember seanchai posting somewhere saying it's supposed look amateur, like a "fly on the wall." but those days are over.

Huh? http://www.black-tgirls.com, http://www.transexdomination.com, http://www.shemales-from-hell.com I'd say are probably the best designed tgirl websites, with the best features anywhere. There isn't another website that has the database features that we have ... the rest of the site are being converted now. I did once state, that the shoots were meant to be "fly on the wall" but that was a long time ago, when Ed Powers DVD's were selling well ... and we've moved on, as you can see by the incredible image and video quality we now produce on most of our shoots - we've trimmed down the photographers, we've had them for training weekends and now we're producing content that is second to none.




the fact of the matter is if i'm going to spend $35 a month on a website, i'm not really caring about how good of friends the site owner is with the models, or if the person shooting them is into transsexuals. frankly, i'm looking for the best jack material.

Excellent. I agree completely. It's a lot of money to spend and you should be putting it where the best content is. Kimber James has done hardcore for us. Linetrap "may" we'll see. Remember, we got Khloe Hart, Hazel Tucker, etc hardcores first - nobody else comes close. The thing is, we got those models and those hardcores and the best jack material because we're into the girls. We go to the clubs, we spend time with them, they're comfortable with us and they like our reputations.

Thanks for the input MacHine, I'm sure you haven't seen the new Black-Tgirls.com design and functionality but when you see it working on Yum (Oct) you'll see how far we've came.

seanchai

[GroobySteven]

Flashier & more polished corporates all the way, if it means the end of all the Amateurish shit (bad lighting, bad sound, clicking cameras etc,)
that some sites try & charge top dollar for. If competition from the corporates forces standards up. Then that’s all good.
.

Absolutely, competition has always forced us to change - and more often than not, we were doing something first. The problem with the "corporates" is they can't offer the after service. The information about the girls, the forums with photographers and webmasters conversing with members, the ability for a member to send in a model and for us to get them, practically anywhere in the world and the ability to tailor shoots to members desires. They don't work like that, they don't care - the shoot the most cost effective content and rely on getting the most buck back in, even if it means a less than average looking shoot. They also won't experiment with "specialised" models - the punky girls, or BBW's who have done so well on our sites of recent, or girls like Mandy when she first started out - these girls would never get a show in, they'd never get a start in the business - and WE, the fans would never get to appreciate these great models.

Shemale Yum and Black-Tgirls takes risks on models that others wouldn't. We take those risk because in my experience, almost every model has fans. This is why we get newest models and models coming back to work with us, again and again. Not just the model looking for the slickest shoot and the fastest buck ... this is also why our members stay members for a long, long time.

Thanks
seanchai

[GroobySteven]

I've been on the Grooby sites since their inception, and I like many things about them: the mostly softcore style appeals to me, the amateurish feel is more "real" and genuinely sexual, the new and fresh girls which they manage to find since they are well-connected with the community. I appreciate that they care about the girls and treat them well (maybe the corporate guys do too, though). And the photography has improved over time. Sure, their 5 to 10 year old sets look bad by today's standards, but that's because they are old. Finally, I liked their forums. Overall, I give Seanchai et.al. a lot of credit for being pioneers and innovators.

That being said, it's a BUSINESS, so if another site attracts me with a better product, I may give them my business instead. Free market economics.

Hello seanchai brother :wink:

I can see why you'd think that - but I've never, ever posted under a different name - I'm more than capable of answering myself - and standing up for myself. Check with the mods they'll check the IP's. You've been around long enough to know it's not my style - I'm confident enough about my product.

[blckhaze]

A balance of the two.

Sometimes you need to keep it raw, real, and uncut, cause frankly what are the chances Celeste or Danilee fox move in next door, or Yasmien or Vaniity is your kids babysitter? Making some feel like they could pull a sexy girl is sometimes the true beauty of porn.
That said, The best quality is also good, because you see every single bead of sweat, cum, and other detail you may ever want.

My usual beefs are the photographers are giving a million orders and kind of killing a hardcore scene, or the guy getting a little too into the solo scene after hes interviewed her and such. Oh and the bald guy with the goatee whos name escapes me, but is annoying as hell. I also hate silent girls, but you really cant teach girls how to be porn stars *points @ kellyshore*, and thats just my personal preference, and i can live if the whole scene is kool.


All that said, bob, seanchai, and a few others do solid work, so tweak here and there is needed, not a huge overhaul.

[GroobySteven]

I produce porn. I've done it for years. I mostly shoot "amateur look" stuff, but I've done lots of other stuff as well. If you're gonna throw a hissy fit because someone said you "shoot porn in your backyard", you really need to grow a thicker skin. What do you honestly expect them to say "Gee, those guys are so much better than us, you should stick with them?".

Everyone is entitled to push whatever competitive advantage they have. You push yours (you've done it all over this thread), and everyone else pushes theirs. That's not some evil empire, it's normal business practices. If some girl won't shoot with you anymore because someone said to her that you shoot in your backyard, it means it hit home for her and she took it as a valid criticism. now, don't take this to mean that there's nothing they could have said which could be over the line. If they said "Oh, those guys don't pay half the time" or, You know you have to fuck those guys for free as part of the shoot", then you have something to bitch about, because they are smearing you with lies.

And as much as the more amateur sites are closer to the community, the big guys often pay substantially more. And that's where I think the real complaint is: that these guys with bigger budgets are coming in and raising the bar so that the girls now expect a lot more money, which may be higher than the budgets which smaller companies can afford to work with. but this is the real test to see how much a part of the community you are and how you treat the girls. When we shoot black amateur content, the girls usually take about 50% to 70% less than when they shoot for the bigger guys. Why? Because they see me out every night and I treat them nicely, but more importantly we are VERY undemanding at the shoots. We let them get away with all sorts of shit which no big producer would.

I think it's a real litmus test of how much a part of the community you REALLY are to see who the girls believe and who they shoot with. If you're really the nice guys who treat them great, etc. they will continue to shoot with you. I haven't seen ANYONE locking up TS talent into exclusive deals (perhaps I'm missing what's actually going on). It also seems like you are asking girls, for whom this is where they make the money to live off of, to make a personal sacrifice for your benefit, while draping yourself in a purple flag and screaming "COMMUNITY".

Another point: what a lot of TS girls know is that if the photographer isn't into TS girls, they aren't going to try to fuck them during after the shoot. And I know plenty of TS girls who've had that experience with " I won't mention the names of any of those entities here. But you savvy fans can figure it out ". So as far as they are concerned, it's actually a plus working with the "big corporate porn" guys.

Now, let's take the whole issue of the entire world of modeling, adult and mainstream. I don't see the editors of Vogue complaining "oh, that photographer is gay. he has not interest in these girls. All he wants to do is charge us the most he can for the photos. he's not involved in the modeling community. He doesn't stay out all night at Pasha and do coke with our girls".

And are you really expecting your customers to buy inferior product because you hang out with the girls you shoot? Do you really mean that? You really think your surfers should or would care? I think you are fooling yourself if you do. if anything, it sounds like you are expecting your customers to finance your lifestyle, and I'm not sure that is their responsibility.

As far as using your sites to find the girls because they don't go to the clubs, if you're going to put up the girls contact info on your site, what do you expect? And if you're not doing that, how are they doing it? You think they can't scan Eros, craigslist, etc. and pick up girls to work with? You don't think that when some girl works for them and gets paid 3 times as much she's not on the phone to all of her friends saying "You know how much XYZ productions pays?".

Now, all this comes off as putting you down - but I give you all the respect you deserve for your years of supporting girls when no one else would bother with them; and having the only sites around for a long time which weren't a rip-off of the surfer, and everything else which you have done which has benefited the girls and the community. But I think you have unrealistic expectations about what you are entitled to in return. Grooby makes millions of dollars a year; if the world has changed it's Grooby which needs to make decisions to change with the times, or stand by 'principles" and make less money. But it's not the girls or the surfers who are responsible for keeping you in the style to which you have become accustomed.

Danny has got to be one of the smartest posters on this board and although we've had disagreements, I very much respect your opinion.

I'll start with your end ... Grooby does make millions but I'm fairly confident it puts back a larger % into the grassroots than many companies. That's just a personal choice and style, and there is no denying, we do, do well. The world has changed and frankly, I think we changed it. Models that we found became stars, we were the first shooting in HD, we were the first shooting in Thailand,etc ... and we're continuing to move on, which is why we've spent so much this year on the new databases, site designs, affiliate programs, stats system and two fucking great sites coming very soon. :-)

We've never stopped a girl working with other companies and have actually suggested reliable companies (bobs, kink, strokers, SMC, Silvera, etc) to models looking for other work - I've also let them know some crappy companies. We've looked at contracting models but the money and fan base, just doesn't seem to be there to do it.

I'm not sure how much experience you have shooting TS models compared to GG but more often than not, a TS will ask you to either take your pants off, get your cock out, feel you up through your pants, ask to suck your cock, ask you to lick her nipples, etc. to get her in the mood - but unless they are hired for a H/C or a gonzo scene, it should always be their choice. We've got rid of any of our photographers who were found to be pushy with the models or with whom we had multiple bad reports, yes it did go on in the past - it doesn't now. The girls who come back to us time and time again speak volumes for that and models who are harder to get in for shoots, Amber Bangs, Vicki Richter, Lisa Lawrence, Olivia Love, Khloe Hart, Kimberly Devine etc. will work for us, sometimes refusing to work for others as they know we're going to represent their image right and respect them as individuals and not sell them of as "Slutty Shemale Whores.com" - I think this is a fundemental difference between us and the larger corporations.

Finally Danny - and you might have seen me posting on webmaster boards about this, some of the bigger corportations are "evil fucks". I recently promoted a site on here as I'd reviewed it, thought it was good and was taking the upsell - I've never promoted anything I didn't think was decent. What I didn't realise that this site made it almost impossible to cancel, pre-checked sales across other sites so that a week after customer A joined for a $1 3 day trial, and then cancelled - he was billed over $150 and had to cancel his cards. I apologised to the people whom did have a problem, offered free time on my sites and am putting the money I earned into a webmaster pool prize for the new groobybucks launch. This company is bad for business - bad for consumer confidence in the porn industry and just really "evil" corporations.

Finally - Bob's Tgirls is NOT Grooby. People still think it is even though we seperated but remained friends over years ago. I like Bob's site and the way it does business. His really it a Mom and Pop store (minus Mom) and he really does provide a good product. The downside is that he's not very good at marketing and not very good at building a slick looking site - but if content is king, Bob has royal content and thats why people join his site, not for slick features but for the content he shows. When slicker corporate websites are buying up the traffic and the members, there is no point kicking and screaming about it - which is why we spend time in the grassroots, with people like ourselves who are ultimately fans. While Grooby is not Mom and Pop any longer, we're still a small company - and we're dedicated. Spending time of boards like this is of course and excellent marketing avenue (how many of those soulless websites do you see here answering your questions or posting a requested photo?) but it's also because we are part of this community.

Danny - hit me up on email admin@grooby.com when you get a minute.
Thanks
seanchai

[Tanuki]

I kinda cant believe that there is not a search function on yum.. its hard to find a model.. you have to go thru all the galleries.. thats kind of annoying..

also.. this is a great thread.. Welcome to the board bob.. your a legend.

[GroobySteven]

I kinda cant believe that there is not a search function on yum.. its hard to find a model.. you have to go thru all the galleries.. thats kind of annoying..



:-) you line them up for me.
The complete redesign has a database search by name, ethnic, location, hair type, cock size, boob size, etc. Black Tgirls does have it on now.

It's a massive job taking every set and tagging it with multiple categories but worth it.

ETA - Oct!
Thanks for the input!

[PapaGrande]

Ultimately I'm not sure customers really care about what your personal relationship is with the models or how involved you are in the community, unless you can turn that into something that benefits them.

[ottorocket]

Corporate porn. Hypothetically, if i pay for a porn site i prefer to have the latest and greatest browsing experience for my $$$. I'm personally not interested in the girls careers, or the owners or photogs of the sites, just give me top quality pics and lots of content.

[qeuqheeg222]

sri chai,BOB,i love both of your sites..especially the new black t-girls..sri chai the new makeover is great..the photographers really connect with the models well-tonyvee,dirty south...bob your content is pretty good too...it is interestin to notice how much content is filmed here in the states versus the outsourced content of other "empires"....i even like some of the independent stuff put out by the t-girls themselves-bigdickbitch..a different style all together but hot for a jack nonetheless....and which one of you guys has the toni tease/crema foto set?

[DC]

I have joined various sites for a month here and there, and I have to say Shemaleyum is the best, next I might join Joey Silvera, Bobs also looks good. I also like Sexxyjade site as well, I prefer the sites that are run by fans and admirers like myself.

[slinky]

Finally - Bob's Tgirls is NOT Grooby. People still think it is even though we seperated but remained friends over years ago.

You know, I know better than that and I should have remembered but i got rapped up in my rant and overlooked facts - my bad.



Danny - hit me up on email admin@grooby.com when you get a minute.
Thanks
seanchai

I may not be in the office till Monday, and if I forget it's just because I have about 100 hours of legal shit in the next week, so if I forget please excuse me in advance.



Danny has got to be one of the smartest posters on this board and although we've had disagreements, I very much respect your opinion.

I hope I've always been clear that this is a mutual thing.



I'll start with your end ... Grooby does make millions but I'm fairly confident it puts back a larger % into the grassroots than many companies. That's just a personal choice and style, and there is no denying, we do, do well. The world has changed and frankly, I think we changed it. Models that we found became stars, we were the first shooting in HD, we were the first shooting in Thailand,etc ... and we're continuing to move on, which is why we've spent so much this year on the new databases, site designs, affiliate programs, stats system and two fucking great sites coming very soon. :-)

Remember who was yelling at you like ?a year and a half? ago that you were too big to be ccBill only anymore and needed to start your own program site? ;)



We've never stopped a girl working with other companies and have actually suggested reliable companies (bobs, kink, strokers, SMC, Silvera, etc) to models looking for other work - I've also let them know some crappy companies. We've looked at contracting models but the money and fan base, just doesn't seem to be there to do it.

I'm not sure how much experience you have shooting TS models compared to GG but more often than not, a TS will ask you to either take your pants off, get your cock out, feel you up through your pants, ask to suck your cock, ask you to lick her nipples, etc. to get her in the mood - but unless they are hired for a H/C or a gonzo scene, it should always be their choice. We've got rid of any of our photographers who were found to be pushy with the models or with whom we had multiple bad reports, yes it did go on in the past - it doesn't now. The girls who come back to us time and time again speak volumes for that and models who are harder to get in for shoots, Amber Bangs, Vicki Richter, Lisa Lawrence, Olivia Love, Khloe Hart, Kimberly Devine etc. will work for us, sometimes refusing to work for others as they know we're going to represent their image right and respect them as individuals and not sell them of as "Slutty Shemale Whores.com" - I think this is a fundemental difference between us and the larger corporations.

For the record, if anyone thought I meant Bob's or Grooby when I was talking about production companies who thought that the money paid talent was assumed to be for a freebie to the shooter, I apologize for giving the wrong impression, because of the companies I was referring to, neiother of these were on that list.



Finally Danny - and you might have seen me posting on webmaster boards about this, some of the bigger corportations are "evil fucks". I recently promoted a site on here as I'd reviewed it, thought it was good and was taking the upsell - I've never promoted anything I didn't think was decent. What I didn't realise that this site made it almost impossible to cancel, pre-checked sales across other sites so that a week after customer A joined for a $1 3 day trial, and then cancelled - he was billed over $150 and had to cancel his cards. I apologised to the people whom did have a problem, offered free time on my sites and am putting the money I earned into a webmaster pool prize for the new groobybucks launch. This company is bad for business - bad for consumer confidence in the porn industry and just really "evil" corporations.

That's always been part of the business, and most of the early guys who made a lot of money in adult did that... and a lot worse. however, I don't think the two things are tied together: I think there are plenty of big "corporate" outfits who are "guilty" of Bob's original complaint, but don't fit in that category. I think it's two different things altogether. And since the question was really originally aimed at surfers, I sincerely doubt any surfer is going be answering "I want sites which will rip me off and fuck me blind". ;)

Lastly, Steven and I tend to "mix it up" a bit on various boards a decent amount. So it might not seem to those not familiar with ALL of our discussions that we are just two guys with a lot of experience who feel passionate about our points of view, which differ mostly because we each came through this business from VERY different roads. If sometimes it looks like we're disrespecting each other, it's just because we each know the other has enough confidence in his opinions and abilities that we don't have to pull punches.

[slinky]

I'm curious what you guys would call TsSeduction. As far as I know, it's not a site which is run by "community" people, but is hardly some generic pablum generated by bland "corproate" porn, and i think it is generally highly regarded content wise.

[GroobySteven]

I'm curious what you guys would call TsSeduction. As far as I know, it's not a site which is run by "community" people, but is hardly some generic pablum generated by bland "corproate" porn, and i think it is generally highly regarded content wise.

Kink is one of the best companies I know and I wouldn't call them "corporate porn" the guys behind it whom I've met (Peter Ackworth - another Brit who started his company the same time as I) have a real interest in their kinks. I think they saw an open niche with the tranny market and went for it. They should quality niche material.

I think when we talk about the big corporate companies, we're talking about the traffic feeder type of guys. Buy the cheapest decent Brazilian content, throw up 20 front doors which lead to the same site, have no concept of the models - or their names - or what sub-niches there really are in the group - and offer the biggest advertising dollars and affiliate one-off checks to get a sale ... and then an upsale ... and a cross sale.

I visited Kink's offices for a party a few months back - and boy, do I wish I'd got into that line instead of tgirls ;-)

[slinky]

I agree with you (except for some of their business practices, but that's really a separate matter).

But do you see the point I'm making about not having to be a serious part of "the community" to be a valid site, get members, have good content, etc.? As you stated (I think), you do it because you thin it's the right thing to do 9which is commendable). But I think it only detracts from the altruism if someone does things for the community and then complains when they aren't rewarded for it.

And one thing I didn't bring up before: the VAST majority of guys who buy TS porn aren't on HA and aren't in any way shape or form "part of the community". So, I'm not sure why they (as opposed to guys who are in some way "in the community") would care about a community which they aren't part of.

[tsmandy]

. They also won't experiment with "specialised" models - the punky girls, or BBW's who have done so well on our sites of recent, or girls like Mandy when she first started out - these girls would never get a show in, they'd never get a start in the business - and WE, the fans would never get to appreciate these great models.

seanchai

Objection your honor! I booked work with Kink through persistence and connections, and a scene for Shemale Strokers, both of which had never heard of my work for yum. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Frank Drachmann from Shemaleyum contacted me and you certainly helped launch my carreer. But I think its unfair to say I'd never have got a show in.

Nonetheless I think you're point is valid, I just resent the implication


:wink: :wink:

[GroobySteven]

. They also won't experiment with "specialised" models - the punky girls, or BBW's who have done so well on our sites of recent, or girls like Mandy when she first started out - these girls would never get a show in, they'd never get a start in the business - and WE, the fans would never get to appreciate these great models.

seanchai

Objection your honor! I booked work with Kink through persistence and connections, and a scene for Shemale Strokers, both of which had never heard of my work for yum. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Frank Drachmann from Shemaleyum contacted me and you certainly helped launch my carreer. But I think its unfair to say I'd never have got a show in.

Nonetheless I think you're point is valid, I just resent the implication


:wink: :wink:

I think you'd agree though Mandy, that by a model like yourself who is more alternative:

a) getting approached by a photographer for Shemale Yum - and appearing on that site, you saw the potential in yourself for doing other work within the industry.

and

b) many companies started shooting alternative type girls, only after they'd appeared on Shemale Yum (and by proxy free sites such as this) and their popularity could be measured.

I in no means meant to imply, that you wouldn't have got work through other companies but simply, that we made it easier for models of your "type" rather than the more stereotypical TS model.

seanchai

[GroobySteven]

Kink through and a scene for Shemale Strokers, both of which had never heard of my work for yum. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Frank Drachmann from Shemaley

Rubbish :-)
They both use Shemale Yum's photosets to check out a model - they've done it for years and in the case of Kink even admitted it.
Honestly, we've known that both these sites have done this - Shemale Strokers is actually one of our larger affiliates also.

[GroobySteven]

And one thing I didn't bring up before: the VAST majority of guys who buy TS porn aren't on HA and aren't in any way shape or form "part of the community". So, I'm not sure why they (as opposed to guys who are in some way "in the community") would care about a community which they aren't part of.

Absolutely, HA surfers represent a tiny amount of people buying TS porn.

I think where Bob's original posting falls flat is on the expectation of people to support him because he's part of the community. My argument is that by being, part of the community, Grooby has managed to get more access to newer and more unique models as well as get some awesome personal information or shoots which many of our members seem to really appreciate.

Expecting somebody to join your site because you are part of the community, doesn't make any logic at all.

Where is Bob anyway?

[tsmandy]

I think you'd agree though Mandy, that by a model like yourself who is more alternative:

a) getting approached by a photographer for Shemale Yum - and appearing on that site, you saw the potential in yourself for doing other work within the industry.

and

b) many companies started shooting alternative type girls, only after they'd appeared on Shemale Yum (and by proxy free sites such as this) and their popularity could be measured.

I in no means meant to imply, that you wouldn't have got work through other companies but simply, that we made it easier for models of your "type" rather than the more stereotypical TS model.

seanchai

Alternative because of the big freight train on my back? The castration? :D
The big mouth?

Ok I withdraw my objection. It's true I always thought porn was a rip off when my friends (GG) did it, and I was busy escorting in Portland's straight hobby/provider community, which was lucrative and fun. I'd never even considered it before Frank approached me. (well except for a brief moment when I was making amateur queer porn)

But you guys helped me get in touch with my inner ego, which had been hiding out for quite some time. And I realized that tranny web-boards were just as fun as the local provider/hobby web boards. Plus, I didn't have to apologize for being trans every time I posted an ad or photo.

[slinky]

Absolutely, HA surfers represent a tiny amount of people buying TS porn.

I think where Bob's original posting falls flat is on the expectation of people to support him because he's part of the community. My argument is that by being, part of the community, Grooby has managed to get more access to newer and more unique models as well as get some awesome personal information or shoots which many of our members seem to really appreciate.

Expecting somebody to join your site because you are part of the community, doesn't make any logic at all.

Where is Bob anyway?

I think we're pretty much 100% in agreement now.

[tsmandy]

I'm curious what you guys would call TsSeduction. As far as I know, it's not a site which is run by "community" people, but is hardly some generic pablum generated by bland "corproate" porn, and i think it is generally highly regarded content wise.

Is corporate defined by whether or not a company is publicly traded and is beholden to shareholders? Can you buy stock in Kink.com?

My friends who work there (granted they are all radical lefty's who know very little about the actual corporate world) say its strangely corporate for a BDSM porn company. I always got a kick out of the dark room filled with computer geeks editing porn, tickled me silly. I just wanted to jump on peoples desks and crack whips, but some fantasies are best left in the fantasy realm. God I love nerds though.

[GroobySteven]

I'm curious what you guys would call TsSeduction. As far as I know, it's not a site which is run by "community" people, but is hardly some generic pablum generated by bland "corproate" porn, and i think it is generally highly regarded content wise.

Is corporate defined by whether or not a company is publicly traded and is beholden to shareholders? Can you buy stock in Kink.com?

My friends who work there (granted they are all radical lefty's who know very little about the actual corporate world) say its strangely corporate for a BDSM porn company. I always got a kick out of the dark room filled with computer geeks editing porn, tickled me silly. I just wanted to jump on peoples desks and crack whips, but some fantasies are best left in the fantasy realm. God I love nerds though.

Well we're a corporation - no stocks or shares though (few porn companies do) - I think for this illustration Bob was referring to the mega companies which run 100's of sites without any real feel for their various niches.

[xrey]

Disclosure: I have met and have chatted with Bob on and off over the years at Peanuts - in prior lives we both had careers in the same industry.
I appreciate and have enjoyed his work over the years and he seems like a down to earth nice guy.


This is a subject that has been on my mind on and off for some time.

That said, when I got into being a photographer in this genre, I did so as a fan. I looked at it as a hobby initially - just something to do for fun. We all got into this because we're into tgirls. We hang with them. They are our friends and lovers, etc..

I have read and re-read Bob's og post and I am still trying to figure out what the underlying motivation is for the post (I understand he says he was prompted from a convesation with a model) and also why there is no follow-up.

My opinion is that Bob truly did get in into the genre as a fan and he does care about the girls and the community but there seems to be a very gray area between the business and fan aspect of the lifestyle.

"They are our friends and lovers, etc ..." Do most porn business owners consider the hired help as lovers (of course with the exception of HH)?

Bob, I imagine that you run a profitable business which allows you to live the lifestyle many on this board would love. But at the end of the day you do run a business and you make a living from both the girls, the community, and the fans.



They don't participate in the transgender community.

So I want to know who you fans of transsexual porn prefer to support with your hard earned money - fans like yourselves who happen to be working in the business or corporations who may have more technical expertise? So I put up a poll question. I'd also like to see what my colleagues have to say on this subject.

Most of the website members do not participate in the transgender community and those that do very likely participate only as a "john". I said most not all.

When you refer to the community are you referring to going out to the clubs and partying with the escorts or do you mean working with the social workers, the abused tgs, the older or not so passable tgs that make up the bulk of the community?

Do not most of the girls who are models and are at the clubs use and exploit their place in the TG world as escorts?

You have the polished "corporate" escorts that command high dollars and you have the less polished "mom and pop" escorts who are more affordable to the masses and you everything in between. Each has found their niche and their success ultimately depends on the customer service they provide.

You walk into the clubs and you find both ends of the spectrum and everything in between ... but at the end of the night most of the girls are looking to make a buck and most of the guys are looking to bust a nut.

With the exception of some of the more genuine girls do you really think that the girls would be lovers to most of us without the money? The models and escorts are getting paid one way or another and when they appear on a site it is for money and the marketing bump!

Your post has me a bit confused.

[vietboy]

We all got into this because we're into tgirls. We hang with them. They are our friends and lovers, etc.

For some years, it was only us working in this genre. Now there is what I refer to as corporate porn entities working here. The photographers and owners of these entities don't appear to be into transsexuals at all. They don't know or care about them. They just shoot or purchase content and produce websites and DVDs. They're just in it for the buck.

They may produce good content, but nothing more. I've been complimented many times by both members and models that I actually care about the girls.
What does it mean to "actually care about the girls"? Surely treating girls with respect and paying them a fair price is enough for a business to show it cares about its models? That level of care can be independent of whether the photographer has a friendship with, or sexual interest in, the model. Ultimately, it does not matter if a purveyor prefers poofs, GG's, pre-ops or post-ops, what matters is if he recognizes the various needs of the market and fills those needs at a good price.

In another sense, the topic you raise is the sort of age-old conflict between a single-owner-proprietor and a large corporate competitor, whether Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc., which is often painted as an outsider that does not care about the community.

In the end, the combination of quality and price usually win.

When a girl is offered money for a shoot, I suspect that she only considers whether the deal is good for her, without consideration of another guy's sexual interests.

If the quality is good and the purveyor distributes those pictures to the tail-end-viewer efficiently and at a competitive price, who cares if the owner of a competing company is into the same thing you are, or even getting laid at all?

Don't get me wrong, you have great stuff, and I hope you continue to have great business success. But I'm enough of an Objectivist to admit those best wishes for business success are motivated by my own self-interest... I have appreciated seeing several of the models you have featured and hope to see more in the future.

With respect to porn, if everyone, including any model, makes a voluntary and individually rational decision, then I do not see the intersection of these decisions as giving rise to a tragedy of the commons type problem for the community.

[NYBURBS]

Some great posts here, keep them coming.

I've been an on and off again member of Grooby sites for years. What I would say is that at least some of your sites such as shemaleyum are outdated and in severe need of an aesthetic update. However, the fact that you often get the fresh talent before they make it big is also a plus.

I know personally that 9 out of 10 times when I am going to jerk off I do it to hardcore porn, most of which I buy VOD minutes on the big sites for. The rare exception is when I see a really hot solo vid on yum that just knocks my socks off.

A note to Senachi: I am going to throw my 2 cents out there about some of the models you get. First as a disclaimer, if you look through my posts here you will see I don't go around bashing people's looks. However, there have been times I have definitely questioned some of the models that have been presented on shemaleyum. I understand that some of them are early in transition, but honestly some have no business being on a porn site in my humble opinion. The corporate sites are going to be more discerning as to who they allow on their sites and perhaps you could be also (and I also understand the need for fresh talent and that it is hard to find at times).

In closing, I think that guys like Senachi, Bob, Joey Silvera, and others have done wonders for porn (TG porn in particular); however, there is always a need to learn from your competition and I hope you do, so that you may stay competitive in the business for a long time to come.

[xrey]

Curious if Bob will jump back into the thread ..

[Bob's Tgirls]

I have read and re-read Bob's og post and I am still trying to figure out what the underlying motivation is for the post (I understand he says he was prompted from a convesation with a model) and also why there is no follow-up.

I've been away from the computer for a couple of days, which is why there was no follow up until now.

After looking at my post again, I think my last paragraph could have been worded better. The main thing that prompted me to start this thread is that some "Johnny come lately" is telling models that we discovered not to work with us anymore. I don't go around telling models not to work for them. This particular model has worked for Grooby, Shemale Strokers and me. She has worked for all three of us multiple times. There's a good possibility that the other company found her on one of our sites. Of course she is not going to stop working with us, and in fact is likely to not work for them now.


"They are our friends and lovers, etc ..." Do most porn business owners consider the hired help as lovers (of course with the exception of HH)?

No we do not consider the hired help as lovers. However in more than one instance a genuine romantic relationship has occurred between one of my models and me.


Most of the website members do not participate in the transgender community and those that do very likely participate only as a "john". I said most not all.

When you refer to the community are you referring to going out to the clubs and partying with the escorts or do you mean working with the social workers, the abused tgs, the older or not so passable tgs that make up the bulk of the community?

Do not most of the girls who are models and are at the clubs use and exploit their place in the TG world as escorts?

There are several facets of participation in the community. Going to the transgender clubs is one. Supporting transgender events is another. I've made donations to charitable causes. There are other more subtle ways that are often done privately. I've counseled girls concerning drug problems. I've loaned money when they were behind. I've even done a couple of bail-outs. Sometimes it's simply giving a girl a ride or helping her with a personal problem. These are things that the others I'm referring to don't do. I'm not even saying they should or that it's bad that they don't. But I am saying it's wrong for them to try to hurt our businesses.


With the exception of some of the more genuine girls do you really think that the girls would be lovers to most of us without the money? The models and escorts are getting paid one way or another and when they appear on a site it is for money and the marketing bump!

Good question. Unfortunately the answer is 'No'. This is kind of going off on a tangent but... It is extremely expensive to be a beautiful transsexual. It's even expensive to be one at all. They have the costs of surgeries, procedures, hormones, etc. They are discriminated against by the mainstream world as far as jobs go. But even if they can get a decent job, it's not going to cover the massive extra costs they incur. As a result they turn to work that will get them a lot of money in a short amount of time.

At the same time, most of the guys who are into tgirls only see them as a sexual adventure. So the girls get jaded. I've been around this scene for over 20 years, so I've seen and heard a lot.

I hope I clarified my point of view.

[Bob's Tgirls]

Hmmm, a honest affinity for ts girls, vs the higher quality of "corporate porn"? It would seem to me that an honest affinity for ts girls would cause you guys to raise the standards of the material you produce to equal or surpass that of corporate porn. It's not like you guys near the top of the pyramid can't afford to, or are unable to do that.

Let me clarify this part. Hypothetically speaking ABC Porn, Inc. has its own studio with permanent lighting and a crew on a shoot. They have dedicated employees for maintaining the web sites, editing and so forth. They even have a guy whose job it is to make phony myspace pages pretending to belong to the models but obviously don't. They create the profiles to have more links to their site.

Then you have me. My home doubles as a studio. I do use good quality cameras and equipment, but I don't make enough money to hire full time employees or have a dedicated studio. I came from 20 years of working in the corporate world. I wanted to do this solo as much as possible. I do have some part time help with things like editing and DVD authoring. But if a member sends an email with a question or a problem, it gets answered by me. I literally don't have the time to do extra things like creating myspace pages.

I'm not necessarily saying that the bigger companies put out a better product, but they can certainly put out a lot more than I can.

Now I will take myself out of the business aspect and just talk as a fan. In my opinion the vast majority of porn is dull. Some of the big producers put out great looking box covers, hire the hottest porn stars, have great marketing, but produce videos I can't even get aroused by.

As a fan, my favorite porn film maker is Joey Silvera. He works solo in his house, hotel rooms or wherever. I like his straight stuff as well as his shemale stuff. It's not polished. It's not technically perfect, but he has his own style that works.

The others I mentioned, Joey and I shoot gonzo style. That's the way we and our fans like it.


I may be wrong, but I don't see a great deal of communication/cooperation between the mostly male producers and the female talent in the ts community. Just writing a check for a photo/video shoot, and clinging to shabby web design, is what will eventually lead to the more established corporations taking over the scene.

I would like specific input as to where my design is shabby. PM me if you wish. I realize that my design is somewhat simple and hasn't changed much, but the navigation is easy. I have a slideshow that is customizable and entire sets can be downloaded into zip files. Seanchai has suggested I make some changes. If you have some constructive criticism to share, I would appreciate it.

[hondarobot]

Hmmm, a honest affinity for ts girls, vs the higher quality of "corporate porn"? It would seem to me that an honest affinity for ts girls would cause you guys to raise the standards of the material you produce to equal or surpass that of corporate porn. It's not like you guys near the top of the pyramid can't afford to, or are unable to do that.

Let me clarify this part. Hypothetically speaking ABC Porn, Inc. has its own studio with permanent lighting and a crew on a shoot. They have dedicated employees for maintaining the web sites, editing and so forth. They even have a guy whose job it is to make phony myspace pages pretending to belong to the models but obviously don't. They create the profiles to have more links to their site.

Then you have me. My home doubles as a studio. I do use good quality cameras and equipment, but I don't make enough money to hire full time employees or have a dedicated studio. I came from 20 years of working in the corporate world. I wanted to do this solo as much as possible. I do have some part time help with things like editing and DVD authoring. But if a member sends an email with a question or a problem, it gets answered by me. I literally don't have the time to do extra things like creating myspace pages.

I'm not necessarily saying that the bigger companies put out a better product, but they can certainly put out a lot more than I can.

Now I will take myself out of the business aspect and just talk as a fan. In my opinion the vast majority of porn is dull. Some of the big producers put out great looking box covers, hire the hottest porn stars, have great marketing, but produce videos I can't even get aroused by.

As a fan, my favorite porn film maker is Joey Silvera. He works solo in his house, hotel rooms or wherever. I like his straight stuff as well as his shemale stuff. It's not polished. It's not technically perfect, but he has his own style that works.

The others I mentioned, Joey and I shoot gonzo style. That's the way we and our fans like it.


I may be wrong, but I don't see a great deal of communication/cooperation between the mostly male producers and the female talent in the ts community. Just writing a check for a photo/video shoot, and clinging to shabby web design, is what will eventually lead to the more established corporations taking over the scene.

I would like specific input as to where my design is shabby. PM me if you wish. I realize that my design is somewhat simple and hasn't changed much, but the navigation is easy. I have a slide show that is customizable and entire sets can be downloaded into zip files. Seanchai has suggested I make some changes. If you have some constructive criticism to share, I would appreciate it.

I'm not really qualified to give you any creative criticism, as I'm not a member of your site, but I have checked out the preview and it's not exactly state of the art. I understand this is your choice of style, and you don't have any desire to expand into a corporate machine type operation. That's your choice, and the indie/gonzo thing apparently is working out well for you.

I do think as the fan base for TS porn becomes larger, and the Evil Angel type companies start expanding beyond just Silvera and whoever, you're going to see the demand for more slick Flash sites/HD video and more elaborate productions increase. Sticking to your indie ideals is one thing (and admirable) but staying competitive is the only way to prevent you first generation TS producers from getting eaten by the bigger fish in the pond.

If that happens (the "bad guys" take over the saloon), then everyone in the scene eventually loses. The genre will be made into an exploitive joke, then Vivid will release a "couples film" featuring a scheming shemale who tries to steal Jenna Jamesons husband, and it's staying in the back of the room at the AVN awards, relegated to the Fetish category indefinitely for the TS scene.

Here's my advice: Keep your site the way it is, but spin off an actual studio/individual company, and staff if from within the TS community. There's plenty of TS girls who I'm sure would rather be working on production right now, in a professional and friendly environment, then getting drawn away for a short term run performing for the "mainstream corporations".

Starting up an operation run by TS girls, representing themselves, would be an expensive and risky, but noble and ultimately profitable contribution I believe you and other producers could make to the community.

[Jericho]

I haven't read the rest of the thread (yet), but my reaction to the op is....
"Made by fans of the genre" is too often, just an excuse to produce sub standard jack-off material.
IT'S PORN!
I don't care who produces it, so long as it produces an erection. :shrug

[DJ_Asia]

[Here's my advice: Keep your site the way it is, but spin off an actual studio/individual company, and staff if from within the TS community. There's plenty of TS girls who I'm sure would rather be working on production right now, in a professional and friendly environment, then getting drawn away for a short term run performing for the "mainstream corporations".

Starting up an operation run by TS girls, representing themselves, would be an expensive and risky, but noble and ultimately profitable contribution I believe you and other producers could make to the community.

Honda ye know not what ye speaketh....

First allow me to interject here as I've been mentioned in this thread.
For those that dont know Bob gave me my start in this business,and although its at times a very frustrating job,it still beats flpping burgers...or DJing as I used to do.
Bobs site is a very user friendly site and I find his photography amongst the best in the genre.He has also gone out of his way to help me improve my work as well (thanks Bob!)

Now to your suggestion of starting a production company run and operated by TG's.....WELL

I employ all ladyboys here in Thailand to assist me.My Bangkok assistant is a well known model who has smoked so much Meth that I can no longer shoot her.She is supposed to find me models,go-fer,translator etc...most of the time she's so high she never even shows up for a scheduled shoot.
The logical thing to do would be find a girl who isnt a drug addict.I know several hundred ladyboys here,some better than others and I can count on 2 hands how many arent addicts...with a few fingers to spare!
My assistant in the south where I live is a FORMER addict,another well known model.She takes care of my house,dogs and is supposed to do photo processing,which is TEDIOUS work.To date she has never completed an entire set for me.
Recently I tossed around the idea of hiring a HA alum to do video editing for me,but alas she doesnt live in Thailand,and has no previous experience doing video work....which is ten times more tedious than photo processing.
At the end of the day I do 99% of the work myself,from model hunting,shooting,editing,processing,posting. etc,etc,etc...

Finding good help is VERY hard to find,let alone limiting yourself to a very very small percentage of the population as TG's are.

Im not sure that porn consumers really care at the end of the day where their smut comes from.As has been mentioned earlier good smut is good smut regardless of the source.I will say though that some of the bigger sites out there put out alot of crap...crappy photography,lousy locations,horrid makeup,ugly models...and my personal pet peeve...excessive Photoshop.Just because a site is 'mom and pop' doesnt make it inferior...and vice/versa

[GroobySteven]

He, he, he ....

There are so many good comments in this posting and your spending your time answering Honda's inanity?

[DJ_Asia]

He, he, he ....

There are so many good comments in this posting and your spending your time answering Honda's inanity?

LMAO...

In actuality so many good points have been raised that it was really impossible to discount much of what has been said already...except for Honda's which had good intention but horribly unrealistic.

[GroobySteven]

A note to Senachi: I am going to throw my 2 cents out there about some of the models you get. First as a disclaimer, if you look through my posts here you will see I don't go around bashing people's looks. However, there have been times I have definitely questioned some of the models that have been presented on shemaleyum. I understand that some of them are early in transition, but honestly some have no business being on a porn site in my humble opinion. The corporate sites are going to be more discerning as to who they allow on their sites and perhaps you could be also (and I also understand the need for fresh talent and that it is hard to find at times).



You think those are bad, you want to see the sets I've simply thrown away!

I can see why some models don't appeal to some (or even many) people but I stand behind every model that we've shown as I know that she will have some fans, whether she's a BBW, a midget, a femboy, a tattoo'd miserable freak, a goth, a punk, a tgirl tomboy, etc. Throwing these models into the mix not only is good to show different sides of the same coins but has certainly encouraged other models to come out and shoot for us and many of those have been our hit models.

My attitude has always been to show a wide array of transgenders and I don't expect everybody to like every mode. That's why on Shemale Yum, we show about 34 different models per month - most of them being N.American/European - so you can pass on the ones you don't like and there should still be plenty goodies for you.

Thanks for the feedback. When the new look site comes out you'll be able to rate each model 1-5 and this will really be helpful in our directions.

seanchai

[NYBURBS]

You think those are bad, you want to see the sets I've simply thrown away!

I can see why some models don't appeal to some (or even many) people but I stand behind every model that we've shown as I know that she will have some fans, whether she's a BBW, a midget, a femboy, a tattoo'd miserable freak, a goth, a punk, a tgirl tomboy, etc. Throwing these models into the mix not only is good to show different sides of the same coins but has certainly encouraged other models to come out and shoot for us and many of those have been our hit models.

My attitude has always been to show a wide array of transgenders and I don't expect everybody to like every mode. That's why on Shemale Yum, we show about 34 different models per month - most of them being N.American/European - so you can pass on the ones you don't like and there should still be plenty goodies for you.

Thanks for the feedback. When the new look site comes out you'll be able to rate each model 1-5 and this will really be helpful in our directions.

seanchai

Understandable and a valid point. Let us know when you release the updated site so ppl can check it out.

[GroobySteven]

Understandable and a valid point. Let us know when you release the updated site so ppl can check it out.

You ever known me to miss a marketing opportunity? :wink:

[hondarobot]

[Here's my advice: Keep your site the way it is, but spin off an actual studio/individual company, and staff if from within the TS community. There's plenty of TS girls who I'm sure would rather be working on production right now, in a professional and friendly environment, then getting drawn away for a short term run performing for the "mainstream corporations".

Starting up an operation run by TS girls, representing themselves, would be an expensive and risky, but noble and ultimately profitable contribution I believe you and other producers could make to the community.

Honda ye know not what ye speaketh....

First allow me to interject here as I've been mentioned in this thread.
For those that dont know Bob gave me my start in this business,and although its at times a very frustrating job,it still beats flpping burgers...or DJing as I used to do.
Bobs site is a very user friendly site and I find his photography amongst the best in the genre.He has also gone out of his way to help me improve my work as well (thanks Bob!)

Now to your suggestion of starting a production company run and operated by TG's.....WELL

I employ all ladyboys here in Thailand to assist me.My Bangkok assistant is a well known model who has smoked so much Meth that I can no longer shoot her.She is supposed to find me models,go-fer,translator etc...most of the time she's so high she never even shows up for a scheduled shoot.
The logical thing to do would be find a girl who isnt a drug addict.I know several hundred ladyboys here,some better than others and I can count on 2 hands how many arent addicts...with a few fingers to spare!
My assistant in the south where I live is a FORMER addict,another well known model.She takes care of my house,dogs and is supposed to do photo processing,which is TEDIOUS work.To date she has never completed an entire set for me.
Recently I tossed around the idea of hiring a HA alum to do video editing for me,but alas she doesnt live in Thailand,and has no previous experience doing video work....which is ten times more tedious than photo processing.
At the end of the day I do 99% of the work myself,from model hunting,shooting,editing,processing,posting. etc,etc,etc...

Finding good help is VERY hard to find,let alone limiting yourself to a very very small percentage of the population as TG's are.

Im not sure that porn consumers really care at the end of the day where their smut comes from.As has been mentioned earlier good smut is good smut regardless of the source.I will say though that some of the bigger sites out there put out alot of crap...crappy photography,lousy locations,horrid makeup,ugly models...and my personal pet peeve...excessive Photoshop.Just because a site is 'mom and pop' doesnt make it inferior...and vice/versa

I have no doubt that finding talent in the porn industry is difficult, but I think it's overly dismissive to say it's impossible, and strictly related to being TS. I wouldn't say any of the following TS girls, who's work I've seen in more production than performance capacity, can be considered anything other than amazingly driven and talented:

Allanah Starr
Gia Darling
Joanna Jett
Danielle Foxxx
Tara Emory
Wendy Williams
Aly Sinclair

That's just a few. If the girls could organize and work together, I think that would be amazing and some high quality work would emerge. I'm not ripping on Bob (I've seen virtual nothing of his work yet) or you DJ (the stuff of yours I've seen is very good), I'm just making a point.

Also, as far as organization and business type applications, I bet just Peggygee alone could mop the office floor with most of the suits currently in the biz, and that's just one example.

[thriller]

I am gonna throw my two cents on this. I have been an on and off member of various grooby websites. While the content is good (I like the redesigned look of blacktgirls, and big + for the modelA-Z function), I think the image and video quality could be alot better. A studio set up would be great but it is not necessary. Good lighting and gels and cardboards( as reflectors) can do wonders for an image and video, making them look more professional. And trust me, it does not really take that long to set up . Also some basic leveling or curve in photoshop wouldn't hurt either. You can create an action button that ran the effect through the whole set by itself without you doing anything. Again it is quick, easy and adds a lot to the overall image quality. Same thing could be done for video also. I could go on for a while but I will keep it short. My point is with some basic setups you can produce incredible images like the one I attached below, which will make the site a lot better.

[GroobySteven]

I am gonna throw my two cents on this. I have been an on and off member of various grooby websites. While the content is good (I like the redesigned look of blacktgirls, and big + for the modelA-Z function), I think the image and video quality could be alot better. A studio set up would be great but it is not necessary. Good lighting and gels and cardboards( as reflectors) can do wonders for an image and video, making them look more professional. And trust me, it does not really take that long to set up . Also some basic leveling or curve in photoshop wouldn't hurt either. You can create an action button that ran the effect through the whole set by itself without you doing anything. Again it is quick, easy and adds a lot to the overall image quality. Same thing could be done for video also. I could go on for a while but I will keep it short. My point is with some basic setups you can produce incredible images like the one I attached below, which will make the site a lot better.

The one of the left has a horrible yellow tint?

I think you might be looking at the older sets which it's bit unfair to judge us on, digital has came a long way in 10 yrs since we started the site and if you look at the older images now, they look dated - but in there time, they were good.

I'd say our current crop of photographers on Black-Tgirls.com are shooting image and video content (HD video) that would stand up to any site. We're certainly not going to go the route to smooth out all skin tones, blemishes, etc on this site. We do some mild photoshopping but most members appreciate the natural and more real look on our sites, than the false, heavily photoshopped content.


Thanks
seanchai


http://www.grooby.com/promo/adrianna3028.jpg

http://www.grooby.com/promo/logan2078.jpg

http://www.grooby.com/promo/katie9007.jpg

http://www.grooby.com/promo/pandgom043.jpg

[thriller]

I am actually a member of blacktgirls for a long time, so I have seen all the pics. And yes, the site and images had improved a lot. My point was maybe you can add some color to the shots by adding some gels to the light to separate the models from the background. But if most members like the natuaral look, then keep it. I guess, it is a matter of personal tatste.

Anyway, keep doing your thing. Later

[GroobySteven]

I am actually a member of blacktgirls for a long time, so I have seen all the pics. And yes, the site and images had improved a lot. My point was maybe you can add some color to the shots by adding some gels to the light to separate the models from the background. But if most members like the natuaral look, then keep it. I guess, it is a matter of personal tatste.

Anyway, keep doing your thing. Later

It would be awesome if you could make those comments at http://www.black-tgirls.com/forum/ so the photographers could read also and maybe get some feedback from them what they are using?

Thanks
seanchai