White privilege

[Buzz]

(by Tim Wise)

For those who still can't grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are constantly looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

• White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

• White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their fuckin' ass," and talk about how you like to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

• White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in the first place because of affirmative action.

• White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."

• White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until the 1950s--while believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, you know, the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.

• White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you. White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto was "Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.

• White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college--you're somehow being mean, or even sexist.

• White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."

• White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.

• White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America.

• White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.

• White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.
And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain.


White privilege is, in short, the problem.

Tim Wise is the author of White Like Me (Soft Skull, 2005, revised 2008), and of Speaking Treason Fluently.

http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/timwise

[NYBURBS]

Well that was a bunch of non-sense and garbage. I must tell you I feel dumber for having read it.

[chefmike]

Good article, Buzz. I was on my mountain bike yesterday when this bitch in a pickup truck passed me, after honking to register her displeasure with me sharing her road. As she passed, I noticed this huge banner in her rear cab window that read NO OBAMA NATION!. Don't tell me for a minute that what it wasn't really meant to convey is NO NIGGER PRESIDENT! I hope she saw me flip her off in her rear-view mirror.

[chefmike]

Well that was a bunch of non-sense and garbage. I must tell you I feel dumber for having read it.

Or maybe you should feel dumber for having said that...

[celticgrafix]

buzz fuck u bitch, if anyone get privileges it's u and u still complain about it, and majority of white americans never owned slaves, so why should we be kissing ur ass, cry all u want, that's what ur best at

[celticgrafix]

and fuck u for having 51 posts and bringing up some racist shit like that

[SarahG]

I know my family owned slaves, and I thought the OP was well written, although I will admit I didn't agree with all the points it was trying to make.

Particularly regarding Obama's church, the media did appear to be hostile to this preacher in a way that is usually not applied towards the (imo) crazy white rel right churches out there, however I am sure it would not have gone over well if McCain had been friendly with say, Falwell, or the Westboro Baptist Church.... but those two are particularly extreme and,

I would bet most of my money, that the press would have been entirely tolerant towards the Westboro Baptist Church if they had all the same views, attitudes & members as they do now... only minus the record of protesting at soldiers' funerals.

There are no shortage of extremist rel right churches who have views that would make Jeremiah Wright look mainstream that simply don't get play, because their hate is tolerant and accepted. Churches that have made up a significant portion of the support for the republican party in recent years.

I say this while realizing that not all churches in America have these extremist, fanatical views.

I do have to wonder if the publicity would have been different had the Unitarian church that was shot up for its liberal views in recent months had been some evangelical megachurch, targeted by some "evil liberal extremist" for their position on social issues.

[hippifried]

Aah've nevah baein privluged. Mah great granddaddy uhned mah rank of cuhnnal on merit. Ch'all're 'lowd tuh luhn tuh read & wraht these days & eevun gets paid fo yo choahs. T'ain't no need tuh be gittin' uppity.

Magnolia! Aah'll be takin' mah mint julip on the po-ach tonight. Don' fuhgit tuh ahr'n mah sheets. Aah's got a meetin' t'nahght.
:lol:

[yodajazz]

buzz fuck u bitch, if anyone get privileges it's u and u still complain about it, and majority of white americans never owned slaves, so why should we be kissing ur ass, cry all u want, that's what ur best at


and fuck u for having 51 posts and bringing up some racist shit like that

No the majority of people did not own slaves. But a large amount to people, had to support the practice for it to exist. The point of the article is that even today there is still a double standard when it comes to race issues. One need only to look at the presidential race to see it.

Funny thing that Blacks experience racism and complain, they are called racists, for bringing up the racial issue. I’m bring this up from the direct experience of others in my life, myself including. Every Black person I know that I have talked to about it, know a White person, who came in on their jobs, over them as their supervisor, with less experience. And in most cases, the Black person, has help train their new boss, getting paid much more than them.

I’ll relate this directly from family experience. My father, decided to let others run his family grocery store, and took a job at Chrslyer. He worked on the assembly line machines for a few months. Then they bought in a young White man maybe half his age, to take over his line job, and assigned him to sweep the floors. He was 40 years old, but in great shape. He ran on the same high school track team as Jesse Owens. Olympic Medal Winner. He was a proud man, and said, I don’t have to work for the White Man and quit. So the little mom and pop store, (mother worked there too), was our family source of living.

So how this relates, is that all our lives we have been told a lot of those White’s had higher education, that’s why the young ones are coming as our bosses. Now in 2008, a percentage of public, thinks that a White woman, with a B.A. Degree in Sports Journalism, is more qualified than a Black Man, with a Juris Doctor, who graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard. I assumed that John McClain had a law degree all this time. I just recently came to understand that he had no other formal education beyond the Naval Academy, where graduated in the bottom 10% of his class. Yet a percentage of people think that McCain being a prisoner of war for five years, gives him better judgment, than a man who taught constitutional law for 12 years.

But I can now predict Obama will win. Once White people can view in him this context:

Barrack Obama, just another janitor coming in to clean up the White man’s mess!

[qeuqheeg222]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

[RevCopeland]

The truth hurts so much that we must silence the one who proclaims it!

[chefmike]

The truth hurts so much that we must silence the one who proclaims it!

Amen, Rev!

Praise Jesus and pass the hypocrisy!

[celticgrafix]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

[celticgrafix]

The truth hurts so much that we must silence the one who proclaims it!

Amen, Rev!

Praise Jesus and pass the hypocrisy!

first post and his only friend, cute, fuckin morons

[SarahG]

Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama
By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

Adjectives that describe blacks

More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.

The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.

Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

The AP-Yahoo News poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

Among white Democrats, one third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/elections/ap_poll_race_obama.jpg

———

Associated Press writers Nancy Benac, Julie Carr Smyth, Philip Elliot, Julie Pace and Sonya Ross contributed to this story.

[celticgrafix]

1 week of 2,500, that's it, weak poll, thats like a little city, u tried i guess, try again

[chefmike]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass
This sad little cretin has obviously wandered off of the short bus and is having trouble finding his way back...it appears that society has apparently let another white boy with a room temperature IQ fall through the cracks...whatever happened to affirmitive action?

[chefmike]

1 week of 2,500, that's it, weak poll, thats like a little city, u tried i guess, try again

Whatever happened to No Child Left Behind?

[celticgrafix]

there she is with her cute remarks, i really think u got a crush on me or something, get off my dick, what u really lookin to cook up bitch

[celticgrafix]

and the worst thing about it is all the whites who read this shit and do not comment, as usual, speak up for once

[tsafficianado]

chefmike contributes

Whatever happened to No Child Left Behind?

chefmike, you're a COOK! wtf is YOUR excuse? get bored with med school? decide that aerospace engineering didn't fulfill your creative side? too many repurblicans in advanced degree programs in physics?

any half-wit (that would be you chefmike) would look at that poll and suggest that the REALITY of it is in all likelihood the grey box. the magnitude of the skew for the blue box clearly reflects the delusion that clouds the eyes of the lib set.

and as long as we're going to cross into the racial aspects of the contest at hand, ponder this one....the exit polls will probably show 55-60% of whites voting McCain-Palin and 40-45% voting obama-biden. they will also show 85-95% of blacks voting for obama and 5-15% voting for McCain. what does this tell you about the process of thought that leads to those black voters' decision? they would just as readily vote for diddy or michael vick or o.j. simpson. spin that skippy.

[celticgrafix]

chefmike contributes

Whatever happened to No Child Left Behind?

chefmike, you're a COOK! wtf is YOUR excuse? get bored with med school? decide that aerospace engineering didn't fulfill your creative side? too many repurblicans in advanced degree programs in physics?

any half-wit (that would be you chefmike) would look at that poll and suggest that the REALITY of it is in all likelihood the grey box. the magnitude of the skew for the blue box clearly reflects the delusion that clouds the eyes of the lib set.

and as long as we're going to cross into the racial aspects of the contest at hand, ponder this one....the exit polls will probably show 55-60% of whites voting McCain-Palin and 40-45% voting obama-biden. they will also show 85-95% of blacks voting for obama and 5-15% voting for McCain. what does this tell you about the process of thought that leads to those black voters' decision? they would just as readily vote for diddy or michael vick or o.j. simpson. spin that skippy.

great point, couldn't agree more

[SarahG]

they would just as readily vote for diddy or michael vick or o.j. simpson. spin that skippy.

And what evidence do you have to show that? Even if 99% of the black voters vote for Obama, that doesn't mean they'd have voted for diddy, vick or simpson in this election.

Look at the votes Sharpton got in the '04 primaries:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/candidates/1773/index.html

You really think the figures given represent all the blacks who voted in the dem 04 primary? And Sharpton has more credibility than diddy, or simspon et al would have had.

Added in case its not obvious: if you click on the voter survey results by state it approx' breaks down who voted for whom based on demographics.

[yodajazz]

chefmike contributes

what does this tell you about the process of thought that leads to those black voters' decision? they would just as readily vote for diddy or michael vick or o.j. simpson. spin that skippy.

I find your comment offensive. It shows how little respect you have for the judgment of black voters, or I should say Black people. In 2004 Blacks voted nearly 90% for John Kerry, who is not Black. Here in Ohio, in 2006, a Black Republican, Ken Blackwell was running for governor. He lost. He did not get that much Black support and not nearly as John Kerry did from Blacks in 2004, even though Blackwell was was the ex-Secretary of State.

Black people vote for self interest like most people. The Republican God of unrestricted business practices has not been good for our people. We live everyday with the effects of exploitation from big business, who saddle us with fees that go directly to them and not to any productivity. The current housing crisis is just one aspect. All those pushers cared about was making their fees from the loans.

Micheal Vick or O.J. Simpson, my ass. Barack Obama, who started from the community level and worked his way up. That shows that he cares for everyone, and is not just interested in finding more ways for big business to make more profits. I'm sure he know that strong business is important, but the fact is we are all important. We are part of life. And that includes people like you, who go around insulting the intelligence of Black people.

[chefmike]

chefmike contributes

Whatever happened to No Child Left Behind?

chefmike, you're a COOK! wtf is YOUR excuse? get bored with med school? decide that aerospace engineering didn't fulfill your creative side? too many repurblicans in advanced degree programs in physics?
I haven't been a COOK for many years, son.

I am a CHEF, and I am an artist at what I do and proud of it. What talent do you have? What do you do? Crunch numbers and kiss ass? Fetch the boss coffee? Hope that if you go back to community college you might get a raise?

We already know that you are an apologist for everything that is wrong with this country...and the gibbering monkey(celticretin) chiming in with you doesn't exactly add to your credibiblity, Einstein...

So what are these other accomplishments that you are so proud of(when you aren't shilling for the GOP and the Religious Wrong that is?)

[yodajazz]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

The reality is that everyone who lived in the US helped to make it is what is now. Blacks first helped create wealth by donating 80 plus of free labor. Then you still have Black doctors, scientist and inventors, who made great contributions. Chinese were brought here as labor to build the first trans continental railroad. This list is endless. But this is why every ethnic group needs to know about their own history, because often the dominant group forgets to include everyone in the picture. Everyone needs to be able to give pride of accomplishment to the next generation.

Racism like you displayed in you comment, should really be thought of as "erase-ism". The dominant culture erases the achievements of the people it seeks to exploit.

Then again if you want White people to take credit for all the good things, then you have to take credit for the bad things, like ethnic cleansing of the Native American population. Some even call it genocide. Then when somebody like Rev Wright brings this up, he is called racist, comepletly ignoring his point of the decline in numbers of the Native American population.

Futhermore: who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

This demonstrates what the original post was about. White priviledge is being able to deny the contributions of everyone but White people. We're all Americans, buddy.

[dafame]

buzz fuck u bitch, if anyone get privileges it's u and u still complain about it, and majority of white americans never owned slaves, so why should we be kissing ur ass, cry all u want, that's what ur best at

True indeed Celticgrafix. I'm so glad you said that because it needed to be said. Now with that said let me add to it. The majority of white americans never owned slaves but the majority of white americans benefited financially one way or another from the ownership of slaves. Where as the slaves didn't benefit at all, infact they were crippled from slavery in more ways than you can imagine.

There were no African Americans who purchased plantations and became rich through the cotton industry from holding slaves at free labor. Who then had children who went to the best universities in the country where one became a lawyer and the other started a brewery. Who then had children themselves who continued the brewery and turned it into a multimillion dollar corporation, and who's descendants today are wealthy beyond belief. No the slaves didn't have these opportunities.

So what you get from that is a society that in it's beginning was so unequal that it was literally designed for one segment to flourish and the other to fail. Once the design of the system was changed when we were allowed to read, write and attend universities (which happened in very recent history) you have African Americans (descendants of slaves) who were starting so far behind economically. Plus these measures to have an equal society were only in principle. It was still the task of most whites to make it impossible for blacks to reach any type of financial or social achievements.

You should read the article I wrote about Michelle Obama which I posted here in the Politics and Religion section. It's about a comment Michelle Obama made but actually goes much deeper than that. Hopefully you'll learn a little something from it. Take care.

[celticgrafix]

buzz fuck u bitch, if anyone get privileges it's u and u still complain about it, and majority of white americans never owned slaves, so why should we be kissing ur ass, cry all u want, that's what ur best at

True indeed Celticgrafix. I'm so glad you said that because it needed to be said. Now with that said let me add to it. The majority of white americans never owned slaves but the majority of white americans benefited financially one way or another from the ownership of slaves. Where as the slaves didn't benefit at all, infact they were crippled from slavery in more ways than you can imagine.

There were no African Americans who purchased plantations and became rich through the cotton industry from holding slaves at free labor. Who then had children who went to the best universities in the country where one became a lawyer and the other started a brewery. Who then had children themselves who continued the brewery and turned it into a multimillion dollar corporation, and who's descendants today are wealthy beyond belief. No the slaves didn't have these opportunities.

So what you get from that is a society that in it's beginning was so unequal that it was literally designed for one segment to flourish and the other to fail. Once the design of the system was changed (which happened in very recent history) you have African Americans (descendants of slaves) who were so far behind economically that it still makes it very difficult to get a fair shake.

You should read the article I wrote about Michelle Obama which I posted here in the Politics and Religion section. It's about a comment Michelle Obama made but actually goes much deeper than that. Hopefully you'll learn a little something from it. Take care.

awww thats cute. my family came from ireland not to long ago, so WE, dumbass, never owned any slave or benefited from it, and fair shake u serious, if anyone is downed in the usa its the whites

[tsafficianado]

yodajazz, you make valid points and i will give them consideration.
I won't bore you with my perspective, i'm sure you are confident that you have a grasp of it already. I won't apologize for my perspective, but i will admit that at the very least i am guilty of allowing my opinion of individuals to expand to my opinion of groups of people - that, i suppose, is the essence of racism. It is not a revelation that makes me particularly proud.
I was raised in the deep south, so racism is part of my culture - that of course is no excuse. It is certainly not how i was raised. my father was a founding member of the unitarian church in atlanta, my stepmother was a peace corps volunteer in africa and spent her careerr working in a children's hospital, my sister is a hardcore liberal and a social worker and has been an active advocate for women's, families' and minorities' rights throughout her career, three of my uncles were noted atlanta attorneys and active in social issues and served on boards of a variety of activist groups - i am the lone republican in all of my extended family, and in many ways i suppose my attitudes are a disappointment to them.
One of my first childhood memories is a cold sunday standing in the rain for ten hours with my father and sister on the quad of atlanta university in a procession to view the body of a man who had been recently murdered, a man who had been a guest in our home on several occasions - that man was martin luther king jr. He has always been one of my heroes, and i am certain i would be a disappointment to him.
In my defense i would only say that in the clutch i think there is someone more humane inside, which is likely the case with a lot of people who let the pressure and vagaries of the real world mis-color their perspective. humor me while i bore you with a little story....

For nine years i was the plant manager in a small manufacturing plant in atlanta, about 30 people worked on my team, and over the years i have probably hired about that many people. On one occasion when we had an opening i had interviews with three people, two black and one white, each of whom was apparently adequate to our requirements and i was left to determine which to hire. After I had finished the interviews the receptionist paged me and told me that another young man had come in unannounced to inquire if we had any openings and i agreed to meet with him briefly. Timothy was a young black guy, not exceptionally bright, little education, no skills to speak of, a spotty employment history who was currently working a few hours a week as a temp laborer. 'T' was a nice kid, and he impressed me with his passion to find a permanent job where he could start to build opportunity for himself, his young wife (who worked part-time at Wendy's) and the child they hoped to bring into the world. I liked 'T' and i took him into the plant and showed him what we did and tried to impress on him the severe conditions in our operation, then i told him i would consider him and let him know something within a few days. He said he would be grateful for consideration, then he told me there was something else i should know about him - 'T' had epilepsy and his condition was so severe that he was a participant in radical experimental drug trials.
I thought about the situation for the remainder of the day and into the night. Hiring 'T' was in no way the easy path. The other three applicants were more 'qualified' for the position, but times were good and i knew the other three could easily find better jobs in short order. I called Timothy the next day and requested the name of his doctor and asked if he would consent to me discussing his potential employment with the doctor to which he readily agreed. I was able to arrange a meeting with his doctor the next day and we discussed the severe conditions in our plant, the presence of many machines and conveyors and boilers and other apparatus that might be a consideration, and his doctor and i were able to come to agreement on restrictions that would allow Timothy and his co-workers to be reasonably safe. I had one team of four that worked together that could absorb someone with minimal skills and i met with them and discussed the situation with them and they all agreed that Timothy could be added to their team without jeopardizing them or their performance and they all assured me that they would keep an eye on Timothy and guard over him in the event of a seizure. I hired 'T' and he worked with us for three years and his team did a great job of including him and utilizing him and watching over him on the occasions when he suffered seizures. Timothy's attendance was sometimes impaird by his illness, and there were times when he had to stop and rest when he felt a mild seizure setting in, but i never regretted hiring him....he was a wonderful kid, always enthusiastic, always a pleasure to see and to speak with, and everyone at the plant was fond of him. He stopped me so often to tell me how much he loved working at our plant that i almost found myself trying to avoid him, it was embarassing. Then one day, with a glow on his face that made him almost luminous, he told me that his wife was expecting their child. They had a son, and no man has ever been prouder to have a son than Timothy, and one day he confided to me that he was going to see to it that his son had every opportunity for a good life - and i never doubted it.
Shortly before Christmas in his third year with us a severe grand mal seizure took Timothy from us and even now, almost ten years later, thinking of it brings tears to my eyes. I loved Timothy, everyone loved Timothy. He wasn't given much, he never asked for much, but he held to his faith that he could overcome everything and take care of his wife and his son. I went to his wake and to his funeral and it was pretty clear that neither his nor his wife's family were in financial circumstances that would allow them to protect Timothy's dream of something better for his wife and his son. As was the custom at our plant, the employees collected some money for the family, and the $600 they collected was the most that was ever donated for a family before or since. I donated $10,000 which was a large part of my net worth at the time, but I wanted to do whatever I could to further Timothy's hopes for his family. Sadly, I know it was wholly inadequate and knowing how little help it would be in the situation that 'largesse' gave me little comfort.

I'm not sure why Timothy came to mind as I thought about your post, but he often does, and although there are demons within me that I suppose make me less than I should be, I take some comfort in knowing that Timothy and I were just two guys who crossed paths in a good way, and we weren't a black guy and a white guy, just two guys.

[celticgrafix]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

The reality is that everyone who lived in the US helped to make it is what is now. Blacks first helped create wealth by donating 80 plus of free labor. Then you still have Black doctors, scientist and inventors, who made great contributions. Chinese were brought here as labor to build the first trans continental railroad. This list is endless. But this is why every ethnic group needs to know about their own history, because often the dominant group forgets to include everyone in the picture. Everyone needs to be able to give pride of accomplishment to the next generation.

Racism like you displayed in you comment, should really be thought of as "erase-ism". The dominant culture erases the achievements of the people it seeks to exploit.

Then again if you want White people to take credit for all the good things, then you have to take credit for the bad things, like ethnic cleansing of the Native American population. Some even call it genocide. Then when somebody like Rev Wright brings this up, he is called racist, comepletly ignoring his point of the decline in numbers of the Native American population.

Futhermore: who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

This demonstrates what the original post was about. White priviledge is being able to deny the contributions of everyone but White people. We're all Americans, buddy.

did WE do this, NO, so get over it

[celticgrafix]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

The reality is that everyone who lived in the US helped to make it is what is now. Blacks first helped create wealth by donating 80 plus of free labor. Then you still have Black doctors, scientist and inventors, who made great contributions. Chinese were brought here as labor to build the first trans continental railroad. This list is endless. But this is why every ethnic group needs to know about their own history, because often the dominant group forgets to include everyone in the picture. Everyone needs to be able to give pride of accomplishment to the next generation.

Racism like you displayed in you comment, should really be thought of as "erase-ism". The dominant culture erases the achievements of the people it seeks to exploit.

Then again if you want White people to take credit for all the good things, then you have to take credit for the bad things, like ethnic cleansing of the Native American population. Some even call it genocide. Then when somebody like Rev Wright brings this up, he is called racist, comepletly ignoring his point of the decline in numbers of the Native American population.

Futhermore: who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

This demonstrates what the original post was about. White priviledge is being able to deny the contributions of everyone but White people. We're all Americans, buddy.

well buddy, u single out the whites, and thats bullshit, cry to someone who cares

[edward almond]

The rich man still has you by the balls because you still believe that bullshit about whites getting all the gravy.Its about class.Not race.My son went to a so called black college and was the number one student in the school.Imagine that ,1 percent whites, and he was the smartest kid in the school.He said the black kids hated him and even shot him while going to class because he screwed up the curve.Now when he applies for a job the employers look confused because he is white and went to a black school.Then they tell him he is not what they are looking for.One even said he was not diverse enough.He had two patents for the school when he apprenticed there and a perfect record. I wonder what they are telling him. If a black man had his resume he would have been chased by every major corporation, so you are as wrong as you can be. Its about inititive and not race.One day my son will overcome this because he has balls and guts. Unlike your, hand me something for free attitude.Affirmative action is just racism on a different group of people.Affirmative action for equality is like fucking for virginity.

[SarahG]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

The reality is that everyone who lived in the US helped to make it is what is now. Blacks first helped create wealth by donating 80 plus of free labor. Then you still have Black doctors, scientist and inventors, who made great contributions. Chinese were brought here as labor to build the first trans continental railroad. This list is endless. But this is why every ethnic group needs to know about their own history, because often the dominant group forgets to include everyone in the picture. Everyone needs to be able to give pride of accomplishment to the next generation.

Racism like you displayed in you comment, should really be thought of as "erase-ism". The dominant culture erases the achievements of the people it seeks to exploit.

Then again if you want White people to take credit for all the good things, then you have to take credit for the bad things, like ethnic cleansing of the Native American population. Some even call it genocide. Then when somebody like Rev Wright brings this up, he is called racist, comepletly ignoring his point of the decline in numbers of the Native American population.

Futhermore: who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

This demonstrates what the original post was about. White priviledge is being able to deny the contributions of everyone but White people. We're all Americans, buddy.

did WE do this, NO, so get over it

I am confused, who are you referring to when you say "we"? If you mean your family, sure I can agree with that argument to a point. Ethnicity? Not so much, there were Irish in America before the civil war, even some who owned slaves.

As to what that meant, varied from place to place during that century. I know the klan in some areas were more concerned about Italians than blacks, in other cases the Irish were targeted- it really depends on where you're talking about in a micro level.

On a macro level however, the institution had far more reaching ramifications nationally. People benefited in all types of ethnic backgrounds, locations, and classes from slavery in the United States. Many northern states were slave states at one point or another, New York was a slave state during the civil war if you fell into certain situations. Many of the northern states that were counted as free states allowed slavery provided the slave's age was below a limit, and when combined with the ban on the slave trade (which had come earlier), many northern families profited right to the end of slavery by operating "breeding" enterprises where slaves would be raised, used locally and- before they turned the age that would set them free, they would be boarded up and sent down south. This is where the phrase "sold down the river" comes from.

Then there were all the nonslave owning parties who benefited from exporting things such as cotton, having decades of access to goods (like cotton) that were being produced without any real labor cost. IMHO you'd be hard pressed to find any white American in pre-Civil War America that did not -somehow benefit from slavery, because of the way it impacted the whole country, from giving individuals the assets to start companies that then employed people, to giving people expendable income that could then be used for making purchases that would not otherwise have been made- the question becomes, how many families would have retained their assets from (even indirect) use of slavery after generations of going through history (there has been more than a few major economic crises since the 60s).

Yet even that argument is misleading because the difference in asset distribution translated into real differences in the quality of the education for each sequential generation. Even a former rich white family fallen into poverty in the 1893 panic would have had kids going to schools light years ahead of anything impoverished blacks (right out of slavery) would have had access to. And then those kids, with that better education would have had more earning potential even if the system was completely color blind in firing/hiring practices (and that surely was not the case). This difference in education and schooling acted as a feedback loop, keeping the poor poor, and the wealthy rich. Not only did this mean that some had higher earning potential, but some were (because of their education) less likely to be taken in scams, more apt to know how to use their money properly. The after effects of this are still being seen if inner city drop out rates are any accurate... and even with our current mortgage crisis we see that blacks from craptastically terrible inner city schools have been far more likely to get caught up by predatory lenders (you can google this one, I won't go into the specifics in this post).

One of my personal heroes is no longer really known in the world. During my great grandfather's time, there was a journalist who then became a muckraking author by the name of Gustavus Myers, and unknown person today- but he spent the better portion of his career researching, documenting, and writing about the history of wealth distribution in western society. Here he went back and, using government records and other such documents- would show how families got their wealth & power, and what happened to it generationally to-date (of his books). When he did this for Canada in the History of Canadian Wealth, he presents a picture of how colonialism pre-determined Canada's wealth distribution, how these noble families of tyrant-imposed monopolies exploited that portion of north america for generations, and how that money was then used. The book was so well documented, and so damning, that it was banned in Canada and had to be published across the boarder in Chicago... Canada didn't see a printing until the 1970s. He wrote about the United States as well, in fact he did so with far more frequency taking on everyone from Tammy Hall to the Puritans. These works were openly accepted and supported by academia then, and have held fairly well to today. But his last book, the one he spent more than twenty years on, he never truly finished (which when compared to his other books is fairly obvious), and when he realized he was towards the end, he took the rough version of it he had so far, went to his publisher- dumped it on their desk, and went home to die three months later. That was 1942 and the book was History of Bigotry in the United States [btw if you're Irish-Catholic, I suggest reading the piece]. This last book didn't get into the issue of economic distribution disparity caused by these practices, but if read with the rest that he had done to that time the reason for that is obvious- he had already proven those points. As to Myers himself, if it matters he was white.

To assume that these disparities no longer exist, that slavery's ramifications are no longer being felt, or that it is impossible for those arriving after the war to have benefited from this relationship, is at best questionable. But if one thing is clear, it is that affirmative action simply won't fix it, not any more or less than using a bandaid to repair a dam.

This isn't 1866, but if these problems do not exist, than one has a hard time explaining away the fact that 55 percent of African Americans, compared to 17 percent of whites, were steered to risky subprime mortgages when they were qualified for a traditional mortgage with a lower interest rate- an observation made by the Federal Reserve themselves. This isn't a debate about hand out reparations, but one about intentional, calculated maneuvers to exploit people for profit knowing the ramifications... and if the housing situation hadn't have turned into a crisis, no one would be talking about it, creating the false illusion of progress, tolerance and equality.

[yodajazz]

yodajazz, you make valid points and i will give them consideration.
I won't bore you with my perspective, i'm sure you are confident that you have a grasp of it already. I won't apologize for my perspective, but i will admit that at the very least i am guilty of allowing my opinion of individuals to expand to my opinion of groups of people - that, i suppose, is the essence of racism. It is not a revelation that makes me particularly proud.

I was raised in the deep south, so racism is part of my culture - that of course is no excuse. It is certainly not how i was raised. my father was a founding member of the unitarian church in atlanta, my stepmother was a peace corps volunteer in africa and spent her careerr working in a children's hospital, my sister is a hardcore liberal and a social worker and has been an active advocate for women's, families' and minorities' rights throughout her career, three of my uncles were noted atlanta attorneys and active in social issues and served on boards of a variety of activist groups - i am the lone republican in all of my extended family, and in many ways i suppose my attitudes are a disappointment to them.
One of my first childhood memories is a cold sunday standing in the rain for ten hours with my father and sister on the quad of atlanta university in a procession to view the body of a man who had been recently murdered, a man who had been a guest in our home on several occasions - that man was martin luther king jr. He has always been one of my heroes, and i am certain i would be a disappointment to him.

In my defense i would only say that in the clutch i think there is someone more humane inside, which is likely the case with a lot of people who let the pressure and vagaries of the real world mis-color their perspective. humor me while i bore you with a little story....

For nine years i was the plant manager in a small manufacturing plant in atlanta, about 30 people worked on my team, and over the years i have probably hired about that many people. On one occasion when we had an opening i had interviews with three people, two black and one white, each of whom was apparently adequate to our requirements and i was left to determine which to hire. After I had finished the interviews the receptionist paged me and told me that another young man had come in unannounced to inquire if we had any openings and i agreed to meet with him briefly. Timothy was a young black guy, not exceptionally bright, little education, no skills to speak of, a spotty employment history who was currently working a few hours a week as a temp laborer. 'T' was a nice kid, and he impressed me with his passion to find a permanent job where he could start to build opportunity for himself, his young wife (who worked part-time at Wendy's) and the child they hoped to bring into the world. I liked 'T' and i took him into the plant and showed him what we did and tried to impress on him the severe conditions in our operation, then i told him i would consider him and let him know something within a few days. He said he would be grateful for consideration, then he told me there was something else i should know about him - 'T' had epilepsy and his condition was so severe that he was a participant in radical experimental drug trials.

I thought about the situation for the remainder of the day and into the night. Hiring 'T' was in no way the easy path. The other three applicants were more 'qualified' for the position, but times were good and i knew the other three could easily find better jobs in short order. I called Timothy the next day and requested the name of his doctor and asked if he would consent to me discussing his potential employment with the doctor to which he readily agreed. I was able to arrange a meeting with his doctor the next day and we discussed the severe conditions in our plant, the presence of many machines and conveyors and boilers and other apparatus that might be a consideration, and his doctor and i were able to come to agreement on restrictions that would allow Timothy and his co-workers to be reasonably safe. I had one team of four that worked together that could absorb someone with minimal skills and i met with them and discussed the situation with them and they all agreed that Timothy could be added to their team without jeopardizing them or their performance and they all assured me that they would keep an eye on Timothy and guard over him in the event of a seizure. I hired 'T' and he worked with us for three years and his team did a great job of including him and utilizing him and watching over him on the occasions when he suffered seizures. Timothy's attendance was sometimes impaird by his illness, and there were times when he had to stop and rest when he felt a mild seizure setting in, but i never regretted hiring him....he was a wonderful kid, always enthusiastic, always a pleasure to see and to speak with, and everyone at the plant was fond of him. He stopped me so often to tell me how much he loved working at our plant that i almost found myself trying to avoid him, it was embarassing. Then one day, with a glow on his face that made him almost luminous, he told me that his wife was expecting their child. They had a son, and no man has ever been prouder to have a son than Timothy, and one day he confided to me that he was going to see to it that his son had every opportunity for a good life - and i never doubted it.

Shortly before Christmas in his third year with us a severe grand mal seizure took Timothy from us and even now, almost ten years later, thinking of it brings tears to my eyes. I loved Timothy, everyone loved Timothy. He wasn't given much, he never asked for much, but he held to his faith that he could overcome everything and take care of his wife and his son. I went to his wake and to his funeral and it was pretty clear that neither his nor his wife's family were in financial circumstances that would allow them to protect Timothy's dream of something better for his wife and his son. As was the custom at our plant, the employees collected some money for the family, and the $600 they collected was the most that was ever donated for a family before or since. I donated $10,000 which was a large part of my net worth at the time, but I wanted to do whatever I could to further Timothy's hopes for his family. Sadly, I know it was wholly inadequate and knowing how little help it would be in the situation that 'largesse' gave me little comfort.

I'm not sure why Timothy came to mind as I thought about your post, but he often does, and although there are demons within me that I suppose make me less than I should be, I take some comfort in knowing that Timothy and I were just two guys who crossed paths in a good way, and we weren't a black guy and a white guy, just two guys.

Well, thanks for sharing. It seems today that we are increasing getting our information from media, which advocates a specific ideology like liberal or conservative. Or we get news from media which claims to be objective, but in reality shows a biased world view like Fox news. We hear about senses crime, but not about the young person taking care of their siblings after their parents have passed away.

Most people do not have enough time to research this issues themselves, so they get misinformation from people with an agenda. I see the public as being lied to, and media not questioning them in many cases. Like when they tried to say that Iraq was threat to the US.

But as far as racism, most Blacks would say that in the South, it was more open, but still about as bad in the North, where people were more undercover about it. They say that it worse to have someone smile in your face, and then stab you in the back. By the way, the National Headquarters for the Klan was in Indiana, not in the south.

So I say that a lot of our differences are based on outright propaganda, or in advertising they call it product positioning, not reality. Reality is the party that claims to be for smaller government, created a whole new Federal Dept of Homeland Security. Or they eliminate some jobs, but then contract the same services out to private contractors and it does not save money.

Thanks again for sharing your history. I think that a lot of things could be worked just by people sharing information, and thus moving closer to a truth which has more of everyone's views.

P.S. I hope can see that this forum posts to not recognize paragraph indentions. You have to skip a line for people to see that it is a new parargraph. You can go back and edit it anytime you want to, however.
I took the liberty of putting paragraph breaks where it looked like you had intended to put.

[NYBURBS]

Well that was a bunch of non-sense and garbage. I must tell you I feel dumber for having read it.

Or maybe you should feel dumber for having said that...

No I really don't. I see your posts all the time, obviously you subscribe to some live feeds from the DNC. I can assure you that the party lines you hear from both parties are nothing but bullshit. If you still think that after 200 plus years of party rule that our political structure is anything but nonsense than I feel bad for you.

As I have said in previous posts, I plan on voting for Obama, but that does not mean I am going to drink the kool aid of either party. In reality we are given two choices, and neither is very different from the other.

I can understand why blacks are upset with whites; I also understand why many whites resent the racial politics. Obama made one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard on this subject, and that is a prime reason why I will vote for him. However, this thread (and the OP's original post) is nothing but divisive, ignorant, and misleading.

[yodajazz]

well buddy, u single out the whites, and thats bullshit, cry to someone who cares

It’s pretty obvious that you don’t care. But you were the one that singled out White people for making the US what it was today. Then, when I point out that it also includes negative things, as well as positive, you complain about being singled out.

I thinks that’s called hypocrisy.

[yodajazz]

The rich man still has you by the balls because you still believe that bullshit about whites getting all the gravy.Its about class.Not race.My son went to a so called black college and was the number one student in the school.Imagine that ,1 percent whites, and he was the smartest kid in the school.He said the black kids hated him and even shot him while going to class because he screwed up the curve.Now when he applies for a job the employers look confused because he is white and went to a black school.Then they tell him he is not what they are looking for.One even said he was not diverse enough.He had two patents for the school when he apprenticed there and a perfect record. I wonder what they are telling him. If a black man had his resume he would have been chased by every major corporation, so you are as wrong as you can be. Its about inititive and not race.One day my son will overcome this because he has balls and guts. Unlike your, hand me something for free attitude.Affirmative action is just racism on a different group of people.Affirmative action for equality is like fucking for virginity.

I agree with you that it is mostly about class. I listened to another video by the person who wrote the original post, Robert Wise. His thesis was that the power elites have always benefited from poor Whites being pitted against poor Blacks. And I agree with his thesis.

I empathize with the position of your son, however, I would also have to say historically the reverse is true a hundred times over. It’s like a race where Whites were given a head start. But then they change the rules and say they will no longer hold Blacks back, but the Whites already have a head start. So the race does not really become fair until some of the injustice from the past is corrected. So I say that affirmative action is just correcting for past injustice.

In my case, my mother was a good high school student. Some of her friends enrolled in college, and my mother wanted to go also. But at the time my grandmother, looked around and saw many Blacks with college degrees who, were not working college level type of jobs, and said that it wasn’t worth, going through all the effort and not be hired anyway. She obviously was wrong, but my point is that many Blacks were discouraged from even attempting to get more education. And even today there is a problem with Black youth, understanding the relevance of education, as they don’t see themselves or their community in the lessons of history.

But anyway, I have to believe that your son’s talent will ultimately lead to his success.

And I do agree with your first sentence that the rich have us by the balls. And get to make the rules whose real priority is to help them stay rich. They have us all waving American flags, made by cheap labor in China.

[beatmaker]

it kills me when they complain about history...they want to bitch about "black history month"...they seem to forget that all history classes taught are pretty much the "western civilization" type which are pretty much about caucasians with a smattering of egyptians and sumerians....i was listenin to Rush the other day(good to know what the enemy is listenin to) and he was claimin Mcsame was makin inroads into blue states makin them "purple"states now...but he claimed some states were still"black"states but could turn to red...i almost lost it...WTF!!!!!

who started the usa to what it is now, after the american indians, it was the whites right, fuckin dumbass

Do you honestly believe the United States would be the power it is today without the 200+ years of free slave labor provided by blacks, which basically was the underpining of the agricultural industry in this country, which by the way was the largest industry in the United States until the Industrial Revolution. Celticgrafix, has this simple minded view of Blacks, that all my black friends who went to college in the Boston area say is endemic amongst native Bostonians of Irish descent. Not all, but way too many! Native Americans contributed their land, but we helped build this shyt, especially the South.

White denial is a big problem!!! It's like the alcoholic who says he doesn't have a drinking problem. He never cures his addiction, because he refuses to face it. Some whites (too few unfortunately) like the writer featured in the initial post, have come to realize this. I think that's why many whites have this pathological need to call black people "racist", like it somehow equals the paying field. It just a B.S mind game many whites delude themselves with, to assuage their history of oppressing blacks globally. Some whites understand and embrace the truth and they make the world a better place for it, but most will continue to embrace racial animous and justify it by labeling blacks "complainers", "unpatriotic" or "reverse racist". Anyone who has really researched the topic of white supremacy and skin privilege will tell you this pathology is needed for that social construct to exist and thrive, along with co-conspirators of color who are complicit, due to their need for white validation or social/financial elevation in this society. The movie "The Matrix" is very analogous to the White Supremacy social construct and how so few are really living in the real truth. You go to Latin America, the blacks are treated like shyt, but they deny it there too. The only blacks you see on Latin television are athletes or musicians. However, I'm sure a white guy like Celticgrafix would say that's bullshyt. Most people who can't deconstruct anything they disagree intellectually, will just call it bullshyt or nonsense to save face with themselves.

[SarahG]

As there were free blacks who owned slaves, and many Irish who WERE slaves, so this isn't really the most valid point...


Certainly there were free blacks who owned slaves, but those cases were few and far between.

There is, beyond a doubt, plenty of blame to go around. Most of the slaves didn't become slaves until they were captured by competing black tribes in Africa, sent to the coasts, and sold to white or arab slavers (depending which coast we're talking about). The statistic that I remember from history class many years back was that 2/3 of the Africans that were sent into Slavery on the west coast were male going to agricultural work in the New World, whereas those leaving the East Coast were 2/3 female and destined for sex work in areas such as the middle east.


it's hilarious how people always equate slavery to "black"...5% of the transatlantic slave trade came into the U.S., the majority of it went to South and Central America, especially Brazil..

I think the reason for that is because the United States gained so much visually from it, financially, and were among the last of the powers to end the institution (formally anyway)

With south and central America, a lot of the wealth from the practice went straight back to Europe, which when combined with the stereotype of everything south of Texas being some big third-world dump, causes people to think that slavery SOB didn't create financial empires, and did not create wealth distribution differences because "everyone down there is equally poor"

My Brazil history knowledge is not flawless, but going by my poor understanding of that country's history, wasn't it under the rule of European royalty & nobility until the 1860s? Poxieto was the second president of Brazil I believe, and his disagreement with Admiral Mello weren't until the early to mid 1890s. If it matters, Mello was black... and it is fairly easy to use that to tell which side of that debate that the United States gunboats sided with. I hope our Brazilian posters can chime in on that chapter of Brazilian history, I know it isn't taught up here.



.there were huge numbers of Irish slaves in the U.S., the British basically tried to wipe them out (by killing and enslaving) in the 1600s...

Isn't that over simplifying things a bit?

Sure other groups were enslaved at various times by various countries. Spanish and Portuguese tried enslaving the natives initially (it didn't work well, which is why they started going to Africa for a slave labor force).

The colony of Georgia was started as a slave state using imprisoned debtors. In the history books they'll say these were free people who chose to go to the New World instead of rotting in British prisons but, it isn't much of a "freedom" if your choice is to rot in a British prison of the era or going to the New World to work. There are obvious differences between this practice and african slavery in what would be the United States however, and iirc when these debtors were the labor force, African slavery was frowned upon in that colony.

I am slightly confused as to what you're talking about in this area (what would be the United States) with the comment talking about the Irish in the 1600s. Could you elaborate?

[Paladin]

and the worst thing about it is all the whites who read this shit and do not comment, as usual, speak up for once

I'm white, I'm reading this and you are full of shit...

[celticgrafix]

and the worst thing about it is all the whites who read this shit and do not comment, as usual, speak up for once

I'm white, I'm reading this and you are full of shit...

and ur a jackass

[beandip]

I guess it's a white privilege that I get stopped by the fucking cops once a week when I work late and I drive through homey-ville on the way to the highway entrance ramp.

Yea, no shit.... I suffer from DWW.

Driving While White. Cry me a fucking river.

[guyone]

Slavery wasn't racism. It was commerce. Black people sold other black people to anyone who had the cash. The 13th Amendment ended that practice in America way back in 1865. Why is this still an issue 143 years later?

[yodajazz]

Slavery wasn't racism. It was commerce. Black people sold other black people to anyone who had the cash. The 13th Amendment ended that practice in America way back in 1865. Why is this still an issue 143 years later?

Slavery wasn’t racism everywhere in the world. But in the US and the Western Hemisphere racism became the most crucial component. Other ethnicities were used in those types of practices but it was race that enabled the system to survive and prosper here. The reason why it is still important is there are still leftovers from the practice, where Blacks and Whites are judged by different standards, or treated differently. An example would be the right to vote. After a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing Blacks the right to vote in 1869, ways were found to get around the measure. So in 1965 a new voting rights bill was passed to try and guarantee Blacks equal access to the right to vote. Now over 40 years later we still have elements trying to disenfranchise Black voters (Ohio 2004). But then that is only 139 years after the Constitutional Amendment, so I guess these things take time to implement.

That there may have been a couple of Black slave owners, or Blacks in Africa who found a way to get rid of their prisoners of war, is not really that important. What is more important is the system of practice and thought, which kept the whole system in place for over 100 years. It used the support of poorer Whites who were not slave owners to help keep the situation in place. This also included religious leadership of the day, who helped to justify the mistreatment of Blacks, (the sons of Ham Biblical story).

But the main point missed in the speech of the original thread, is that poor Whites, (and these days middleclass Whites) were exploited by the institution of slavery and also by today’s power elites. He says racism among Whites is a tool by the power elites to keep themselves in power and wealth. I agree, as a Sociologist, who has been trained to look at the society at-large.

So when I say this, I am half joking but half serious: It is time for you Guyone, to stop the oppression of our poorer White brothers and sisters, and to seek a more just world. And I’m prepared to defend my case.

[Cuchulain]

Slavery wasn't racism. It was commerce. Black people sold other black people to anyone who had the cash. The 13th Amendment ended that practice in America way back in 1865. Why is this still an issue 143 years later?

I dunno. Why did Nixon's 'Southern Strategy' work?
"From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats." - Kevin Philips, Nixon strategist, in 1970 NYT interview

[Cuchulain]

Now over 40 years later we still have elements trying to disenfranchise Black voters (Ohio 2004).

racism among Whites is a tool by the power elites to keep themselves in power and wealth. I agree, as a Sociologist, who has been trained to look at the society at-large.


Don't forget Florida in 2000, my friend - Katherine Harris and Choicepoint, Inc.
You hit the nail on the head about racism, along with crap like guns, religion, abortion, sexual preference and now fear of terrorists, being used by the powerful to divide the masses. They sure as hell don't want us to stop tearing at each other long enough to look up and see the real enemy.