Transgender Teen's Death a Hate Crime?

[alex_c]

An 18-year-old found dead inside her Colorado apartment last week may have been targeted because she was transgender, police said.
Angie Zapata
On Thursday, July 17, Angie Zapata, an 18-year old Latina transgender woman, was found murdered in her home in Colorado. It appears that there may be anti-transgender motive in this brutal crime.
(Courtesy Colorado Anti-Violence Program)

"The bottom line is, we can't rule it in, we can't rule it out," Sgt. Joseph Tymkowych, a police spokesman in Greeley, Colo., told ABCNews.com.

Born a male, Justin Zapata, 18, identified herself as a woman and was known to family and friends as Angie. Her body was found in her apartment a week ago, with wounds to the head and face, police say. Missing was her green 2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser. Authorities have not yet recovered the car, which they hope will provide evidence that might help crack the case.

"The sooner we can find it, the better," Tymkowych said of the car.

Authorities have released few additional details about the case. They will not say whether the apartment, located in a quiet part of Greeley, about 60 miles north of Denver with a population of 75,000, had been broken into. They also have not said whether any items -- beyond Zapata's car -- were missing from the scene. They do, however, think the suspect -- or suspects -- likely had some type of relationship with Zapata.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5444468&page=1

[Nowhere]

I absolutely, without a doubt, believe it's a hate crime, but her murderers will likely get zero jail time and without a mark on their record, as most tgirl / tguy murderers do. After all, they were so 'shocked', they couldn't do anything but kill her, right? :x

[alex_c]

one would think but its pending without evidence at the moment, that and lack of information, im hoping to hear more but all we can do is wait and see.

[alex_c]

UPDATED

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/31/police-say-suspect-referred-to-victim-as-it/

RIP hun.

[yodajazz]

The more I read about the story, the more I believe that the murderer’s claim of a crime of passion could easily be a cover up. They were together for what lasted to be two separate days, even spending the night together. Of course he claims that they slept in separate beds. I see that he had a record of breaking and entering and theft. But maybe it was just old habits that made him take stuff of hers and pawn it along with her car. When I went to Angie’s web site I believed that she said to ask her if there was anything you want to know. So that’s evidence that she may not have hid anything. He could have easily waited for her to return, because he wanted to take her car. He could have easily planned the crime and his whole defense, while they were together and him waiting for her to return.

I can see from the comments on the listed link that he has a lot of people believing his side of the story. I even talked about ts safety here on this site as a result of it. But his story looks shakier and shakier under closer scrutiny.

[Legend]

I really don't understand why they allow that gay panick bs into the courts anyway,some guy can kill a gay or transgender person just for thrill and say that person hit on them, most likly they will get away with it.You can clearly see this idiot building up for that defense so easily like yoda mention.

[LilWyte]

wowww thats messed up

[Legend]

I doubt he'll get away with much. They found him in the girl's car. he admitted hitting her repeatedly with a fire extinguisher. he told cops he thought he had killed "it." his actions and words have already convicted him.

The guy is going to prison. He'll probably be charged with 2nd degree murder and he'll probably take a plea.


No doubt he won't get away with it but you can't agree that the panic defense will lower his sentence instead of second degree murder he should be getting first degree and the death penalty.

[alex_c]

I doubt he'll get away with much. They found him in the girl's car. he admitted hitting her repeatedly with a fire extinguisher. he told cops he thought he had killed "it." his actions and words have already convicted him.

The guy is going to prison. He'll probably be charged with 2nd degree murder and he'll probably take a plea.


No doubt he won't get away with it but you can't agree that the panic defense will lower his sentence instead of second degree murder he should be getting first degree and the death penalty.

Update: http://www.angiezapata.com/

Angie Zapata was brutally murdered in Greeley, Colorado in July 2008. Angie was a transgender woman and she was murdered because of anti-transgender bias.

On April 14, 2009, her alleged killer will go on trial in Greeley, Colorado. The trial marks the first time that Colorado’s gender identity-inclusive hate crimes statute—and in fact any state’s hate crimes law—has been applied in the investigation and prosecution of an anti-transgender murder case.

The tragic circumstances of Angie’s death gives Coloradans an opportunity to better understand Angie’s life and the lives of transgender people. It offers a chance to talk about the importance of Colorado’s hate crime law. And it highlights the need to stop excluding people from the protections of a federal hate crimes law simply because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

[JHANIAH L0VE]

this gets me ANGRY

[JHANIAH L0VE]

I doubt he'll get away with much. They found him in the girl's car. he admitted hitting her repeatedly with a fire extinguisher. he told cops he thought he had killed "it." his actions and words have already convicted him.

The guy is going to prison. He'll probably be charged with 2nd degree murder and he'll probably take a plea.


No doubt he won't get away with it but you can't agree that the panic defense will lower his sentence instead of second degree murder he should be getting first degree and the death penalty.NO, he should rott in jail.

[TsJennifer]

Wow, how sad. Very scary!

[JamesHunt]

jeez this sucks. she looks so pretty :(

[T-girl hound]

I remember when this tragedy happened, everyone was just getting a closure with the Gwen Araujo tragedy. As much as people flame each other here we have to remember whats important, being human beings

[MacShreach]

I doubt he'll get away with much. They found him in the girl's car. he admitted hitting her repeatedly with a fire extinguisher. he told cops he thought he had killed "it." his actions and words have already convicted him.

The guy is going to prison. He'll probably be charged with 2nd degree murder and he'll probably take a plea.


No doubt he won't get away with it but you can't agree that the panic defense will lower his sentence instead of second degree murder he should be getting first degree and the death penalty.

The so-called "gay panic" defence is an obscenity.

[dgs925]

That really suck, and yes the "gay panic" defense is bullshit. For that matter "hate crime" is a bullshit term. Murder is murder - that is all there is to it. The idea that someone's punishment should be different based on the gender/race/sexuality of the victim is total BS.

[The Azmun]

I wish shit like this would stop happening. It makes me really, really depressed. I'm sorry. I don't have anything good to say. Damn this murdering scumbag to the deepest pit in Hell, and everyone like him can go to feed all the rats in Calcutta. I would have liked to meet Angie. I would have liked to meet Gwen, I would have liked to meet any number of victims of this savage fuckin stupidity. Sometimes I wish we could just kill all the haters. Never mind. I hate this shit.

[SXFX]

god she was gorgeous :-(
hope she is in a better place

[MacShreach]

That really suck, and yes the "gay panic" defense is bullshit. For that matter "hate crime" is a bullshit term. Murder is murder - that is all there is to it. The idea that someone's punishment should be different based on the gender/race/sexuality of the victim is total BS.

You're right in principle. However the manner of killing in cases of murder of transgender people is frequently so vile that some note has to be taken of this and the "hate penalty" is valid for that reason. For example, Gwen Araujo was tortured for several hours before being beaten to death with a shovel and strangled, and look at this:

Mara Keisling, who is transgender and the Director of the DC-based National Center for Transgender Equality, was quoted in an article in The New Standard published on Jan. 15, 2007: “Trans people generally don’t get stabbed once; they get stabbed twenty times, shot, burned and thrown into a dumpster,” she said.

You have to take this level of hatred into account in sentencing; it would be nice if we could educate men (and it is always men) out of this violent mindset, but transgender people simply don't have time; the only alternative is to make men fear the consequences of their actions greater than their fear of their own sexuality, which is what this is really about.

Much as I dislike the principle of differentiation--one life is as valid as another--if "hate crime" penalty enhancement helps address the urgent issue of making life safer for transgender people, it's worth it.

[GroobySteven]

That really suck, and yes the "gay panic" defense is bullshit. For that matter "hate crime" is a bullshit term. Murder is murder - that is all there is to it. The idea that someone's punishment should be different based on the gender/race/sexuality of the victim is total BS.

You're right in principle. However the manner of killing in cases of murder of transgender people is frequently so vile that some note has to be taken of this and the "hate penalty" is valid for that reason. For example, Gwen Araujo was tortured for several hours before being beaten to death with a shovel and strangled, and look at this:

Mara Keisling, who is transgender and the Director of the DC-based National Center for Transgender Equality, was quoted in an article in The New Standard published on Jan. 15, 2007: “Trans people generally don’t get stabbed once; they get stabbed twenty times, shot, burned and thrown into a dumpster,” she said.

You have to take this level of hatred into account in sentencing; it would be nice if we could educate men (and it is always men) out of this violent mindset, but transgender people simply don't have time; the only alternative is to make men fear the consequences of their actions greater than their fear of their own sexuality, which is what this is really about.

Much as I dislike the principle of differentiation--one life is as valid as another--if "hate crime" penalty enhancement helps address the urgent issue of making life safer for transgender people, it's worth it.

Well said.

[marcelloNYC]

Resta nella pace.

Il nome del padre, e figlio, del spiritu sante....amen.

[SarahG]

You have to take this level of hatred into account in sentencing; it would be nice if we could educate men (and it is always men) out of this violent mindset, but transgender people simply don't have time; the only alternative is to make men fear the consequences of their actions greater than their fear of their own sexuality, which is what this is really about.

Bullshit (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/03/18/glb-against-t-whos-man-enough-to-escape-a-beating/). Girls are perfectly capable of turning violent and harming a trans victim. The notion that only heterosexual males are capable of violence just isn't realistic.

Perhaps the only reason why guys are more notorious for it isn't due to some hidden characteristic apart of "being a masculine guy," but because in our society its so much harsher for a guy to be gay, it's normalized to see guys commit violent crime in general, its normalized to see guys engaged in violent behavior, and when that's all put together there is no accountability after the fact if the victim is "undesirable for society anyway" (aka gay panic defense).

Of course we let the guys off the hook, "guys will be guys" and everyone (including a great many people I've seen who post here) seems to stereotype guys as trigger happy, violent psychopaths who are so insecure about their orientation that all it takes is a false threat to set them off the edge. Buying into that isn't just a disservice to the victims of crimes like these, its a disservice to all the hetero guys out there who are presumed to be irrationally, uncontrollably violent.

Meanwhile, in our society its not quite as bad for a girl to be les... especially if both the girl and her gf are hot, girl's aren't as equally seen to be perpetrators of violence, and aren't assumed to be trigger happy (i.e. when a girl does engage in violence, everyone is quick to wonder what a horrible long list of things had to have happened to her to push her that far- its not a surprise when a guy beats his wife to death, its a big surprise when a battered wife decides enough is enough and kills her abusive husband). Thus girls are presumed not to be fighters, presumed to be weaker, and are easier targets... which in return helps explain why guys are violent (anyone see the circular thinking here?).

A friend of mine used to be a guidance councilor in an inner city district, let me tell you first hand- even pre-teen girls are capable of violence, capable of murder, and capable of irrational responses. So why doesn't it happen as often? I think that's obvious...

[Ts CinthyaNY]

It's a real tragedy that such a young and beautiful Transgender woman was slain in such way, shame on her killer.

I just hope her family find some closure to their pain and the Justice System of Colorado gives to this person the punishment he deserves.

God bless her soul...

Love...
Cinthya.

[Justawannabe]

Have to agree, the hate crime aspect is valid for two reasons.

Torturing someone to death is a very different thing than a killing during a robbery with a gunshot.

Killing someone because they are part of a specific group also has a secondary crime of intimidating the rest of that community. If I murder a blue person, the orange folks might be shocked and appalled, but they don't fear for their lives like the rest of the blue people. That crime has to be paid for separately from the murder of the unfortunate primary victim.

Sarah is right that as well. Men are not a problem because they are men, and are certainly not the exclusive purveyors of violence. Some men are a problem because we have so traumatized men in this society in relation to sexual identity that a minority have become truly dangerous. It turns out that minority is fairly large in absolute numbers... and gets a lot of attention compared to the more peaceful majority.

[The Azmun]

so how does anybody stop this shit? does it keep happening because some dumbfuck men raised in repressive christian culture or wherever can't handle thier own desires in their own minds? If so, then THEY are the problem...what would be the public response if people started torturing and killing them by the thousands? Much as it appeals to my sense of justice, somehow I don't think the irony of such a thing would be made clear to such a bunch of hypocritical hateful fucks. I can't even talk intelligently about this kind of thing it pisses me off so much. :evil:

[phobun]

Some men are a problem because we have so traumatized men in this society in relation to sexual identity that a minority have become truly dangerous.
Yes, "we" did this and the poor "traumatized men" are victims.

No, no... fuck that.

Any man who commits such a horrendous crime is a cockroach and deserves execution

No excuses, no sympathy and no victimizing the killer.

[Legend]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/19121127/detail.html

Transgender Murder Trial First To Use Hate-Crime Status


DENVER -- The first hate-crime case to involve a transgender murder starts in one week in Weld County, and the victim's family will be featured in full-paged advertisements in newspapers nationwide Wednesday.

The goal of the ad is to raise awareness about the crime and push for the passage of federal hate crime legislation.

Allen Andrade is accused of killing Angie Zapata (born Justin Zapata) in her Greeley apartment last year, after he

discovered she was still biologically male.

Andrade now faces multiple charges, including a state hate-crime charge.

Federal law currently does not cover hate crimes based on sexual orientation or gender identity, and gay-rights activists are pushing to have new legislation passed.

"What you're doing is setting policy that this type of behavior is no longer acceptable," said Carlos Martinez, with the GLBT Community Center of Colorado. "I think you start changing the mindset of people and over time, you definitely will see a reduction in hate crimes."

Read more about the Zapata case from the gay and lesbian alliance against defamation.

Hopefully the ad does make people aware of this case and hate crime laws in general.

[MacShreach]

Bullshit


It is not 100%, but the overwhelming majority, some 90%, of violent offenders are men. Furthermore the stats include the many cases where a woman has finally snapped after a history of abuse, so that although she was responsible for violence, she was only responding to violence.

An even greater proportion of violent acts against transwomen are perpetrated by men.There are cases it is true where women have been involved in such crime, for example in the Araujo case, where her male genitalia were discovered by a forced search conducted by women, but it was still the men who battered her to death.

I could quote sources for this uncomfortable but nevertheless well documented truth all day; here's the first one that came to hand. I draw your attention to the conclusions.


Source--Source: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Homicide Trends in the U.S.," a series of statistical tables and graphs published online, January 2001, available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm. Greenfeld, Lawrence A. and Tracy L. Snell, Women Offenders, December 1999, pp. 1, 2, 4.




"Violent Crime - Gender Differences In Violent Crime Offenders

Violent crime is very much the domain of men. Men are responsible for most criminal acts and they are the victims more often than women. This is true even in the acutely tragic cases of the murder of a child. Of murder victims aged 5 years or under, most are males and most are killed by a man.

The graph presents homicide offender rates for men and women. Rates charted are the number of homicide offenders, by gender and year, for every 100,000 people in the population. Men murder on average 8 times for every murder perpetrated by a woman. The homicide rate "gender gap" hasn't closed over the years. In fact it has increased, and this despite a decline in number of homicides. In 1976 the ratio of male murderers to female was 5 to 1. By 1999 it was 9 to1 and at its peak, in 1995, it reached a surprisingly high 11 to 1 ratio.

Homicides can be broken into four categories by gender of offender and victim. Here is the breakdown for murders committed in 1999:

Male offender /Male victim 65.1%
Male offender /Female victim 22.4%
Female offender /Male victim 10.1%
Female offender /Female victim 2.4%

Murder is, of course, the most extreme of violent crimes. Is the gender gap for all violent crimes as large as it is for homicide? No. Based on the average annual number of offenders reported by victims during the five-year period 1993-97, the following gender breakdown by type of violent crime was found.

Average Number of Violent Crimes Committed Annually, 1993-1997
Offenses Female Offenders Male Offenders Women as % of Violent Offenders
Homicide Total 1,468 14,196 9
Sexual Assault 10,000 442,000 2
Armed Robbery 157,000 2,051,000 7
Aggravated Assault 435,000 3,419,000 11
Simple Assault 1,533,000 7,187,000 18
Total 2,136,468 13,113,196 14

With more than 2.1 million violent offenses committed annually by women, one must not confuse a lower rate of violent activity with no violent criminal activity. However, women do commit violent acts at a substantially lower rate than their male counterparts, once for every 7.15 times that a man commits a violent act.

Female offenders differ from male offenders in a number of ways. Women are less likely than men to use a weapon such as a blunt object, knife, or firearm in the commission of a crime: 15% of women do while 28% of men do. Women are more likely than men to have had a prior relationship with their victims, 62% versus 36%.

In the case of murder, the offender gender difference is even greater. Of the 59,996 murders committed by women between 1976 and 1997 just over 60% of the victims were intimates or family members of the murderess. Among the 395,446 victims murdered by men during this period, only 20% were family members or intimates. Of course, that means that about 36,000 people lost their lives at the hands of a female family member and about 80,000 were killed by a male family member.

In conclusion, women are less violent than men. When they do act violently, they lash out against those they know and either love or once loved."

Yes, women are involved in more violence than was previously the case, (and this is larhgely fuelled, in the UK at least, by alcohol,) and yes there are absolutely men who are totally against violence in all its forms, (and I am one,) but to try to shrug off the the fact that overwhelming preponderance of violent crime is carried out by men is, I am afraid, what was the word you used?-- Oh yes; bullshit.

[thx1138]

The last person to be executed for murder in Colorado was in 1976 so my guess is this guy will get life imprisonment. http://www.deadlinethemovie.com/state/CO/index.php

[thx1138]

oops, only 1 since 1976.

[MacShreach]

so how does anybody stop this shit? does it keep happening because some dumbfuck men raised in repressive christian culture or wherever can't handle thier own desires in their own minds? If so, then THEY are the problem...what would be the public response if people started torturing and killing them by the thousands? Much as it appeals to my sense of justice, somehow I don't think the irony of such a thing would be made clear to such a bunch of hypocritical hateful fucks. I can't even talk intelligently about this kind of thing it pisses me off so much. :evil:

It goes back to what I was trying to say, perhaps not very well-- transgender people die at the hands of men on a regular basis. Educating men out of their violent mindset would be ideal, and I instinctively dislike the idea of enhanced penalties for crimes against any particular group, whether that be policemen or transgenders.

But the fact is there is just no time to be nice, to educate, because we have to stop the violence, and if knowing that he will find his sentence substantially increased because he attacks a transgender person stops ONE evil, violent man from carrying out that act of brutality and saves ONE life, then it is worth it and frankly my pinko liberal sensitivities can go hang.

We live in a culture where male violence is practically worshipped, right alongside serious homoerotic imagery (Conon the Barbarian anyone? Rocky?) Men are constantly exposed to homoerotic imagery, yet are desperate to appear super-straight, and at the same time violence is almost preached at them. Yes some men are victims of social ills; yes some men have been damaged by an abusive family life, yes men are conditioned to be terrified of anything homosexual, especially within themselves--

But none of that, not any of it, excuses a man battering some terrified, defenceless kid to death because she challenges his precious sense of maleness.

Phobun is right. No excuses, no mercy. If we can't educate men into controlling their violence we have to punish those who don't so severely and so publicly that no man can not know what the consequences of his violence will be. Life without possibility of parole should be mandatory, no "gay panic" BS mitigation, no exceptions.

[SarahG]

The last person to be executed for murder in Colorado was in 1976 so my guess is this guy will get life imprisonment. http://www.deadlinethemovie.com/state/CO/index.php

Several states have the death penalty on the books but have it in practice on hold, New York is one of them (as an example).

[SarahG]

Some men are a problem because we have so traumatized men in this society in relation to sexual identity that a minority have become truly dangerous.
Yes, "we" did this and the poor "traumatized men" are victims.

No, no... fuck that.

Any man who commits such a horrendous crime is a cockroach and deserves execution

No excuses, no sympathy and no victimizing the killer.

I quite agree, if anything the easier people are on the criminals, the more of a snow balling effect there will be because it shows society at large that a given practice is acceptable.

I don't think doing away with gay panic would have discouraged this specific guy from killing this specific girl... but maybe if when these stories do happen, the punishments fit the crime, and the media explains the horrible ways in which these victims are savagely beaten to death instead of sensationalizing "what name they used to have" or "how they may not have even been passable"- people will eventually get the message that trans people are human beings just the same as all other victims.

Then, with the girl that was killed in Syracuse recently... if the criminal who killed her had "done the time" the first time, for his last series of crimes (he was a repeat offender) he would not have been on the streets that night. Period. He was let out EARLY for his last string of crimes, and that's how he managed to be at that party that night.

[SarahG]

Bullshit
Yes, women are involved in more violence than was previously the case, (and this is larhgely fuelled, in the UK at least, by alcohol,) and yes there are absolutely men who are totally against violence in all its forms, (and I am one,) but to try to shrug off the the fact that overwhelming preponderance of violent crime is carried out by men is, I am afraid, what was the word you used?-- Oh yes; bullshit.

You did explicitly say, and I'll repeat it now: "(and it is always men)."

That is what I was responding to. If you had said "and it is almost always men" or "it is overwhelmingly men" I would have agreed with you.

But all men? 100% of the time? No, that's just wrong.

The story I linked to shows a transman that was attacked by a MOB of GG's. Not just GG's, but lesbian GG's. And this didn't involve any transphobic "tricking" story, no guy being surprised to find his date has a cock... no, this was a case where a transman went into a lesbian bar and made the lesbians wonder if he was a guy or a girl. That's what set them off. Now let's stop for a moment and consider all the tgirls who we've heard about being attacked by mobs of guys. All the gays that used to have mobs go after them similarly... and the story becomes a significant one.

I completely agree with you that men are more likely to be perpetrators of violent crime, my post had said as much after all... once that type of behavior is normalized (i.e. letting it fly "boys will be boys", over sensationalizing violent crime through the media, its no surprise so many guys grow up thinking violent crime is acceptable behavior) it acts as a feedback loop, institutionalizing the practice if you will. I suspect, we agree there as well.

[2009AD]

He's been charged with first degree murder but, after reading Colorado's definitions, I predict that he'll either plead to or be found guilty of murder in the second degree. Either way, he'll be in prison for quite a long time.

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/areas_criminal_litigation/murder.html


http://www.co.weld.co.us/departments/da/Media%20Press%20Releases/12-30-08_AndradeUpdate.pdf

PRESS RELEASE


December 30, 2008
Contact: Jennifer Finch
(970) 356-4010 ext. 4702


WELD DISTRICT ATTORNEY FILES
HABITUAL CRIMINAL COUNTS AGAINST ALLEN ANDRADE

GREELEY, Colo. – This afternoon, the Weld County District Attorney’s Office filed habitual
criminal counts against Allen Andrade (DOB 12/19/1976). Andrade, who is charged in the
murder of 18-year-old Angie Zapata, will appear in Weld County District Court March 6, 2009,
for a Motions Hearing; his Jury Trial is scheduled to begin on April 14, 2009.

On July 17, 2008, Zapata was found deceased in her Greeley apartment. An autopsy determined the cause of death was blunt-force trauma. On July 30, 2008, Andrade was arrested in Thornton in connection with Zapata’s death (he was in possession of Zapata’s car which had been missing since July 17).

Further investigation revealed that Zapata had met Andrade on the internet and brought him to her home in Greeley. After learning that Zapata was a transgender woman, Andrade allegedly struck Zapata repeatedly with his fists and a fire extinguisher.

Andrade is charged with: First Degree Murder – After Deliberation (class one felony); Bias- Motivated Crime (class five felony); Motor Vehicle Theft (class four felony); and Identity Theft (class four felony).

If Andrade is convicted in the Zapata homicide case, the District Attorney’s Office will have an opportunity to present the court with evidence to support the habitual criminal status. If the court
finds Andrade guilty of the habitual criminal counts, the court would be required to sentence Andrade to four times the maximum in the presumptive range for each of the underlying
convictions.


###


Weld County
District Attorney’s Office
Nineteenth Judicial District Kenneth R. Buck – District Attorney

[arnie666]

I dislike the term hate crime. I think it creates seperation within a society when really we should be intergrating and educating people. I also think it might create a feeling that crimes against minorties are somehow more damaging than a crime against joe Bloggs by the state and cause resentment and further homophobia or racism.

But the the left never have been smart have they?'hate crime legislation is exactly what white power groups and anti Gay groups need to futher their agenda and get more support. But if you want to create more victims then fine jog on.Doesn't effect me does it. and I do not think it does anything about violent attacks towards homosexuals or transgender people. I hear less about queer bashing now, but I put that down to the media showing more Gays on telly and popular culture cutting down some sterotypes concerning public toilets, bathouses, paedophilia and sexual diseases.Younger people now are far less homophobic than my mates were.


Murder is murder at the end of the day. If there are aggravating features in a murder, for example the use of torture, premeditation, sexual violence or perhaps the method used on the victim. Then that should be reflected in the sentence.

However I think the Gay fright defence belongs in the bin.

[SarahG]

I dislike the term hate crime. I think it creates seperation within a society when really we should be intergrating and educating people. I also think it might create a feeling that crimes against minorties are somehow more damaging than a crime against joe Bloggs by the state and cause resentment and further homophobia or racism.


Which is a great argument for not using hate crime statures for deciding sentencing.

Hate crime law is not without its merits, in other ways. The big problem with (as an example) crimes involving trans victims is that time & time again, the media botches the story, the police botch the investigation, the courts botch the trial... and by that point the odds of a conviction for a lesser crime (i.e. 2nd degree murder) is going to be low, and the odds of a conviction for the real crime (i.e. 1st degree murder) is going to be practically nonexistent.

A good way of combating all those problems would be to red flag all cases involving trans victims (say, by calling them "hate crimes") and then forcing all such cases to get federal oversight. If done right, it would bring some accountability into the picture when small town cops think "there's no point in investigating this, she's prolly just another hooker tranny- she had it coming", or when judges think "if the guy didn't know she was trans, he was justified in stabbing her 60 times." Would it make everything magically better? No, but the reality is the system as it is now just isn't working for trans victims. Convictions are rare, convictions for the actual crime committed is even rarer.



Murder is murder at the end of the day.

Well no, I think there is a logic behind distinguishing between 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter.

There is also a logic behind taking the brutality of the crime into consideration at sentencing. The poster earlier (forget who it was and didn't read back through to find it) who said something to the effect that "when a trans person is murdered usually they're not stabbed once, they're stabled 40 times, the body is burned, and the corpse is left in a dumpster in a dark city alley way" was right. Generally the murder of trans victims is abnormally brutal.

But, not everyone who is brutally murdered in such a way is trans. Anyone who murders someone with that degree of brutality deserves the worst the state can throw at them, whether their victim be trans, straight, black or white. Animals who pull crap like that need to be locked in a cage, forever.

I do believe there is a difference between quickly killing someone (i.e. shooting a cashier at a gas station in the head in a botched robbery), and torturing a victim to death over a course of weeks (i.e. your serial killer who wants the victim to suffer for extended periods). Both are murder, but one is notably worse and deserves a notably worse punishment. Although I suppose that could be broken down into two acts (the torture as its own charge, in addition to the murder charge). Maybe the solution to the murderer who stabs a trans victim to death with 40 stabbings isn't a punishment of "the typical punishment for murder plus 5 years because the victim was trans" but "the typical punishment for murder plus 39 counts of the punishment for stabbing"

[alex_c]

VERDICT IS IN! Guilty verdict in transgender teen murder

Allen Andrade,32, is found guilty of killing 18-year-old Angie Zapata. Weld County jury also finds him guilty of a hate crime.

A Weld County jury has found 32-year-old Allen Andrade guilty of first degree murder in the death of teen transgender Angie Zapata. They also found him guilty of a biased motivated crime. The jury took less than 3 hours to reach its decision. Andrade never denied killing Zapata. He beat Zapata to death with a fire extinquisher. His defense claimed he reacted with rage when he discovered that Zapata was really a man. But prosecutors said the discovery came hours before the murder. Andrade is being sentenced to life in prision without parole.

http://www.koaradio.com/pages/breaking.html?feed=124975&article=5359769

[dc_guy_75]

He's been charged with first degree murder but, after reading Colorado's definitions, I predict that he'll either plead to or be found guilty of murder in the second degree. Either way, he'll be in prison for quite a long time.

You can't plead to lesser crime once it goes to trial and there's a conviction... wtf?

[SarahG]

He's been charged with first degree murder but, after reading Colorado's definitions, I predict that he'll either plead to or be found guilty of murder in the second degree. Either way, he'll be in prison for quite a long time.

You can't plead to lesser crime once it goes to trial and there's a conviction... wtf?

Check the date & time of 2009AD's post.

AT the time, the jury hadn't started deliberations... let alone found him guilty.

I guess the question the guy had to have been asking himself is:

1- Do I plead guilty, do some time (for who knows how long) and have a chance of getting out in 30 years

or

2- Do I not plead guilty, risk getting convicted of 1st degree, and end up in prison for life, no parole.


With #1 he'd know he'd have a chance to some day be free again, with #2 he's playing roulette with 12 people who could lock him away forever.

He chose #2... probably thinking "there's no way they'd care about some tranny for crying out loud," as that was probably similar to what he was thinking when he decided to beat her to death for all her property (car, purse, credit lines, charge cards, cash etc). After all "who would miss a tranny, let alone investigate into the murder of one?"

His line of thinking was shown as kaput by the people of CO (or at least, 12 of them).

AFAIK this is the first time in the US there has been a 1st degree, hate crime conviction for the murder of a trans victim. But don't hold me to that, I could be wrong there.

[2009AD]

He's been charged with first degree murder but, after reading Colorado's definitions, I predict that he'll either plead to or be found guilty of murder in the second degree. Either way, he'll be in prison for quite a long time.

You can't plead to lesser crime once it goes to trial and there's a conviction... wtf?

Check the date & time of 2009AD's post.

Thanks SarahG. :lol:

[dc_guy_75]

Apologies... gmt vs est.

But the plea would've happened before the trial... according to Law & Order...lol :)

[SarahG]

Apologies... gmt vs est.

But the plea would've happened before the trial... according to Law & Order...lol :)

Law & order is so fake when it comes to certain things.

Usually when they're negotiating plea deals, the accused isn't in the room.

NORMALLY the DA and the defendant's lawyer negotiate the plea deals and then the def's lawyer goes back to the def later on to explain whats been offered. It's a back & forward process that can take time. Usually the def isn't there to just blurt out "NO, i'll take the deal, I did it! I did it!"

[Tiffany Anne]

I gotta say I'm proud of my state-mates today that the gay panic defense the prosecution tried was so soundly rejected.

I imagine that scum boy is soon gonna learn what gay panic actually is.

[Nicole Dupre]

The last person to be executed for murder in Colorado was in 1976 so my guess is this guy will get life imprisonment. http://www.deadlinethemovie.com/state/CO/index.php
So that's what the consequences are, huh? If figures that you'd be up to date on such info.