TO THE MEN FROM TS in Light of recent comments

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

Ok guys,

You often think why we hate on men so much and here is the God's honest truth from the mouths you claim to feed.

A lot of you are extremely respectful, understand our limitations, struggles, and also our joyful moments. A lot of you may not understand and that is what turns you on. Some of you may even hate us and yet you still seem to find some enjoyment in hurting us.

Which brings me to my next observation.

There is a clear anger toward TS women, mostly due to your inability to understand this dark side that lurks inside of you. Instead of embracing your true self and calling you chose to see it as a bad thing and want to hide from it. By doing so you project all of that Karma upon us.

We are simply living our lives. Dealing with your ability to use power to disempower, marginalize, silence, and subordinate us.

You don't have to listen to me... Heck! Listen to what the exports have to say... Oppression does not need established organizational support; it can be rendered on a much smaller individual scale. It is particularly closely associated with derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."

So do we weigh you down? Does the burden of being attracted to creatures such as us bring out some sort of need in you to belittle us and publicly humiliate us?

It is clear that transsexuals are no longer listening to these sort of idiotic remarks and chose to fight back, and we will not allow you to think you control us by your idiocy and lack of understanding of how life must be for the outcasts. If you need to throw a stone please, allow me to grab you a few, then I can chop off your knees and let it fall right on your own head.

Some of us transsexuals are outspoken and I am so happy God granted me the gift of voice. Everyday I was growing up I was shot down by being so opinionated and yet I come to find that in my adulthood nothing has changed. Yet the clear difference is the fact I seem to have surpassed some of your intellect and obvious lack of humility.

And to the girls... Never allow some trick or "admirer" speak down to you. They are the ones with the issues, not us. We are the high powered beings, the ones who do not chose this path, but try to make the best of what was given us without any directions. Kinda like being given radio parts and asked to build one without directions. Some of us finally figure it out, others get lost in it and eventually give up.

To those who read this fucking bullshit from these heartless pigs - NEVER GIVE UP! You can count on your sisters because we seem to be the only ones who understand what is like to be Transsexuals.

These are the lyrics to a great song by Kina:

" Girl from the gutter "

For all the things you said I'd never do
For all the things you said that were untrue
For all the times you made me feel alone
Said I'd never make it on my own


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, yeah, yeah


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

For all the times you said "I got your back"
For all the times you stabbed me
For all the times you tried to hurt my pride
For all the pain I held down deep inside


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, i hope you do


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

Needed to make me weak to help you feel stronger
I know y'all bitches think I'm somewhere dyin' inside
O yeah poor Kina, she went home
She couldn't take it no longer

But I'm, right here
I'm right here
I'm right here

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Much love Danielle

[BrendaQG]

Allah Akbar!

Preach sister.

[hondarobot]

Excellent post. I would add that I think most Forum Tough Guys are sucked too far into the fantasy aspect of porn. Nothing wrong with adult entertainment, it's purpose is to project a fantasy, but it's not real life. Some of these trolls need to realize that real life is less about gangbangs and slapping a bitch up, and more often just arguing about who gets to control the television remote.

[Paladin]

I'd rather listen to the imports than the exports.

But seriously, Danielle, as one of the most publicly visible true fully realized M2F transsexuals there is, you present a uniue prespective and while I can't say I've walked a mile in your shoes, i do greatly respect all the long term pain, obstables, etc that you have gone through,and you're a better person for it.

[The Infinity]

Considering the circumstances, you're bound to run into a lot of repressed homosexuals, who are, in my experience, generally a nasty bunch.

Add in the fact that a girl of your type is basically an physical embodiment fo an intense psychological conflict, and you get the hate.

[scroller]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_complex

[Steffani]

Ok guys,

You often think why we hate on men so much and here is the God's honest truth from the mouths you claim to feed.

A lot of you are extremely respectful, understand our limitations, struggles, and also our joyful moments. A lot of you may not understand and that is what turns you on. Some of you may even hate us and yet you still seem to find some enjoyment in hurting us.

Which brings me to my next observation.

There is a clear anger toward TS women, mostly due to your inability to understand this dark side that lurks inside of you. Instead of embracing your true self and calling you chose to see it as a bad thing and want to hide from it. By doing so you project all of that Karma upon us.

We are simply living our lives. Dealing with your ability to use power to disempower, marginalize, silence, and subordinate us.

You don't have to listen to me... Heck! Listen to what the exports have to say... Oppression does not need established organizational support; it can be rendered on a much smaller individual scale. It is particularly closely associated with derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."

So do we weigh you down? Does the burden of being attracted to creatures such as us bring out some sort of need in you to belittle us and publicly humiliate us?

It is clear that transsexuals are no longer listening to these sort of idiotic remarks and chose to fight back, and we will not allow you to think you control us by your idiocy and lack of understanding of how life must be for the outcasts. If you need to throw a stone please, allow me to grab you a few, then I can chop off your knees and let it fall right on your own head.

Some of us transsexuals are outspoken and I am so happy God granted me the gift of voice. Everyday I was growing up I was shot down by being so opinionated and yet I come to find that in my adulthood nothing has changed. Yet the clear difference is the fact I seem to have surpassed some of your intellect and obvious lack of humility.

And to the girls... Never allow some trick or "admirer" speak down to you. They are the ones with the issues, not us. We are the high powered beings, the ones who do not chose this path, but try to make the best of what was given us without any directions. Kinda like being given radio parts and asked to build one without directions. Some of us finally figure it out, others get lost in it and eventually give up.

To those who read this fucking bullshit from these heartless pigs - NEVER GIVE UP! You can count on your sisters because we seem to be the only ones who understand what is like to be Transsexuals.

These are the lyrics to a great song by Kina:

" Girl from the gutter "

For all the things you said I'd never do
For all the things you said that were untrue
For all the times you made me feel alone
Said I'd never make it on my own


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, yeah, yeah


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

For all the times you said "I got your back"
For all the times you stabbed me
For all the times you tried to hurt my pride
For all the pain I held down deep inside


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, i hope you do


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

Needed to make me weak to help you feel stronger
I know y'all bitches think I'm somewhere dyin' inside
O yeah poor Kina, she went home
She couldn't take it no longer

But I'm, right here
I'm right here
I'm right here

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Much love Danielle

YES!

[slinky]

There is no loathing like self loathing.

[backspace]

Why would you fight back to something you're not listening to?

[Jake 3]

DANIELLE FOR PRESIDENT!!!

[vietboy]

There is no loathing like self loathing.

It's a damn shame that "gender identity disorder" is in the DSM-IV and "self-loathing homosexual" is not.

Because it is the cock-obsessed "chasers" who are in the most need of help.

The unfortunate reality is that many of these losers are such horrid misogynists that their own mothers and sisters have repeatedly rejected them and their spiteful ways. Yet they go on to treat their wives and girlfriends, including transsexual women, with the same scorn. It is ironic then that chasers are called transfans because the sad reality is that a transfan has contempt for transsexual women, just as he talks down to every other woman in his life.

Why do these sickos hate women? ...Ultimately, chasers hate themselves the most. And since many are swishy autogynophiliacs who dress up and enjoy taking it up the backside, they misplace their self-hatred on the woman they fetishize themselves as, and this contempt is then displaced onto other, more successful, feminine individuals in their lives.

If only the pre-op lover could just come to terms with himself as a gay man and gain ease with his own feminine side! Self-accepting gay men don't hate women, and gay men love their mothers. Tranny-chasing and tranny-hating (two sides of the same coin) would disappear. The world would be a better place!

[yodajazz]

Ok guys,

You often think why we hate on men so much and here is the God's honest truth from the mouths you claim to feed.

A lot of you are extremely respectful, understand our limitations, struggles, and also our joyful moments. A lot of you may not understand and that is what turns you on. Some of you may even hate us and yet you still seem to find some enjoyment in hurting us.

Which brings me to my next observation.

There is a clear anger toward TS women, mostly due to your inability to understand this dark side that lurks inside of you. Instead of embracing your true self and calling you chose to see it as a bad thing and want to hide from it. By doing so you project all of that Karma upon us.

We are simply living our lives. Dealing with your ability to use power to disempower, marginalize, silence, and subordinate us.

You don't have to listen to me... Heck! Listen to what the exports have to say... Oppression does not need established organizational support; it can be rendered on a much smaller individual scale. It is particularly closely associated with derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."

So do we weigh you down? Does the burden of being attracted to creatures such as us bring out some sort of need in you to belittle us and publicly humiliate us?

It is clear that transsexuals are no longer listening to these sort of idiotic remarks and chose to fight back, and we will not allow you to think you control us by your idiocy and lack of understanding of how life must be for the outcasts. If you need to throw a stone please, allow me to grab you a few, then I can chop off your knees and let it fall right on your own head.

Some of us transsexuals are outspoken and I am so happy God granted me the gift of voice. Everyday I was growing up I was shot down by being so opinionated and yet I come to find that in my adulthood nothing has changed. Yet the clear difference is the fact I seem to have surpassed some of your intellect and obvious lack of humility.

And to the girls... Never allow some trick or "admirer" speak down to you. They are the ones with the issues, not us. We are the high powered beings, the ones who do not chose this path, but try to make the best of what was given us without any directions. Kinda like being given radio parts and asked to build one without directions. Some of us finally figure it out, others get lost in it and eventually give up.

To those who read this fucking bullshit from these heartless pigs - NEVER GIVE UP! You can count on your sisters because we seem to be the only ones who understand what is like to be Transsexuals.

These are the lyrics to a great song by Kina:

" Girl from the gutter "

For all the things you said I'd never do
For all the things you said that were untrue
For all the times you made me feel alone
Said I'd never make it on my own


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, yeah, yeah


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

For all the times you said "I got your back"
For all the times you stabbed me
For all the times you tried to hurt my pride
For all the pain I held down deep inside


Things are lookin' up for me now
Seems like Karma's makin' its rounds
Its my turn now, won't be held down no
Karma's gonna visit you too
You gotta pay for the things you put me through
I hope you do, I hope you do, i hope you do


I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

Needed to make me weak to help you feel stronger
I know y'all bitches think I'm somewhere dyin' inside
O yeah poor Kina, she went home
She couldn't take it no longer

But I'm, right here
I'm right here
I'm right here

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me

I hope your hell is filled with magazines
And on every page you see a big picture of me
And under every picture the caption should read
Not bad for a girl from the gutter like me yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Much love Danielle

I have told you a thousand times (my 1000th post). One thing I have noticed here is that women, pay much more attention to anything negative said about them. Danielle you are a classic example of this. You have nearly 1000 threads mentioning you, most all are very positive. In those threads there are multiple posts, mostly all positive. So this means the 1000 is multiplied by x. With all this, you recently said that nobody cared if you lived or died. Tell me how many thousands of time more compliments will it take for you to believe that you are loved?

I should have learned this long ago. When I first started on HA a woman wrote that she was having problems finding a good relationship. I wrote one of my usual long posts, telling her to hang in there, everything would be all right. Countless other people did also. Don’t you know, that she responded to the person that said she was full of shit and said that she was a whore. They ended up corresponding privately, whereas I was never even acknowledged for something that took some time to think of and write. Girls seem to pay much, much more attention to the negative things.

In a recent thread a man said that he if he had a pre op girl and she got the change, he would still be with her. This was completely ignored and he was accused of spreading hate about post ops, because he wanted to be with a pre op and his girlfriend together. Even though he has a girlfriend, he was called a “gay cock loving tranny chaser” and no one else seems to think this term is offensive. Who’s talking down to whom?

Seem to me that a number of post op women seem to think that men hate them, because they think of them in the category of all other women with pussies. This is not hate, it is just accepting the consequences of you achieving your goal. It is just a consequnce to people believing that you are truly a woman.

I look at life this way. Jesus Christ is believed to be perfect by billions of people. Yet he was executed. So if he received hate, who are we to be so obsessed with the people who hate us, when there are many others who love us. So for me, I think the bigger problem is that women cannot accept the fact that men love them, and the women seem think something is wrong with the men for loving them, instead of being thankful that you are adored. And contrary to what some people here say, it’s not just because of the cock. There are billions of cocks in the world, well as billions of pussies. They are each attached to a person. Some of these people are attractive, have good personalities, intellect, etc. That attracts people to them sexually. You have it, so why not just accept it, and be thankful that you are you, and someone will always love you.

[tssexychanel]

And to the girls... Never allow some trick or "admirer" speak down to you. They are the ones with the issues, not us. We are the high powered beings, the ones who do not chose this path, but try to make the best of what was given us without any directions. Kinda like being given radio parts and asked to build one without directions. Some of us finally figure it out, others get lost in it and eventually give up.

To those who read this fucking bullshit from these heartless pigs - NEVER GIVE UP! You can count on your sisters because we seem to be the only ones who understand what is like to be Transsexuals.



AMEN SISTER SAY IT AGAIN.

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_complex

I cannot make any other comments based on this response to a heart filled post.

I guess I hit the nail on the head.

Excuse me, I have to go part the ocean now...

[Lick UR Lovely]

DANIELLE FOR PRESIDENT!!!

+1

[yodajazz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_complex

I cannot make any other comments based on this response to a heart filled post.

I guess I hit the nail on the head.

Excuse me, I have to go part the ocean now...

Oops! You did it again! I made a (long) post saying that you are loved and beautiful and you ignore that to focus on someone's negative comment. You proved my point, exactly what I was saying. Thank you!

Here's the score so far 13 other posts 9 positive response, 1 negative, 3 neutral or I'm not sure. And you only responded to the negative comment.

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

I am not angry, have issues, let men rule my world, or even rude comments.

However I do worry about what it is said because:

1: Girls who are just starting out need encouragement - Jennifer Paris was not always Jennifer Paris. She started some where...
2: Men need to learn how to respect women
3: I stand up to pricks - does this defy me as an angry person? To those who are haters ... yes
4: Because I care, and that makes me someone special... Caring is a great thing - Another misconception.
5: Because I CAN
6: Pricks need to be put in their place
6: Because I want to make an example of bad behavior
7: Because men constantly ask why we get angry and hate on "chasers"
8: should I go on?

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_complex

I cannot make any other comments based on this response to a heart filled post.

I guess I hit the nail on the head.

Excuse me, I have to go part the ocean now...

Oops! You did it again! I made a (long) post saying that you are loved and beautiful and you ignore that to focus on someone's negative comment. You proved my point, exactly what I was saying. Thank you!


Excuse me while I pause to kiss your ass...

MUAAHHHHHHH

Consider it kissed. Want me to rim it too?

Seriously thank you

I didn't do it to get compliments, altho they are very welcome because it shows who the true gentlemen are.

I did it so that some can find some educational meaning in it, and hopefully ( unlikely ) show that we are slightly human and have emotions.

[Lick UR Lovely]

I am not angry, have issues, let men rule my world, or even rude comments.

However I do worry about what it is said because:

1: Girls who are just starting out need encouragement - Jennifer Paris was not always Jennifer Paris. She started some where...
2: Men need to learn how to respect women
3: I stand up to pricks - does this defy me as an angry person? To those who are haters ... yes
4: Because I care, and that makes me someone special... Caring is a great thing - Another misconception.
5: Because I CAN
6: Pricks need to be put in their place
6: Because I want to make an example of bad behavior
7: Because men constantly ask why we get angry and hate on "chasers"
8: should I go on?

If I owned this HA board, I would make you a Moderator.........

[Overlord Abomination]

When are you coming back to porn? Dp? Gangbang? Raw? I love you.

[Justawannabe]

This thread has left me with very mixed reactions.

YodaJazz seemed to make some good points, and in no way asked for an ass kissing, rim or no rim. He pointed out that the tone of your OP was a bit hostile to guys in general, rather than 'pricks' which used to mean rude or insensitive men.

You lay out that there is a clear anger towards TS women, and give a reason for it, without actually saying what it is. (Assume you are having yet another go at the men who are interested in TS women are gay trend, which would sound more like you tossing your own insecurities back at the men to me.)

You throw in a pitch about oppression, never acknowledging that oppression can go both ways, even between two individuals, depending on the surroundings. You claim superior intellect and humility to the folks responding to you (or given the following posts contracting with you).

You even go so far as to claim a superior spiritual position because you have to sacrifice social acceptance to follow your calling.

So it just comes across very hostile to guys in general... maybe a bit more time spent on targeting, and guys won't think they are walking into hostile territory just saying hello.

Call a man a prick. treat him like he is one... and what does he have to lose by being one? Treat him like a cash machine with a pull lever and don't expect him to love you... or even like you.

You talk about the young girls needing encouragement... well the young boys do too. They need to see that being one of the good guys will have rewards that are equal to what you get for being a 'prick'.

I'm rarely anything but respectful... but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

[T Oracle]

Why was it that before your grammar sucked, your spelling was shit, your capitalisation was fucked and your punctuation was non-existant?

Oh, yeah. And you raved a lot.

And yes, I did pay attention and panned for the flecks of gold.

But now - you could teach me English. And logic. And poetry.

Smells awfully like a Vicki game to me.

[vietboy]

You throw in a pitch about oppression, never acknowledging that oppression can go both ways,

The noble soul is a comedian too. That is comedy, right?

[IndyCloset]

This thread has left me with very mixed reactions.

YodaJazz seemed to make some good points, and in no way asked for an ass kissing, rim or no rim. He pointed out that the tone of your OP was a bit hostile to guys in general, rather than 'pricks' which used to mean rude or insensitive men.

You lay out that there is a clear anger towards TS women, and give a reason for it, without actually saying what it is. (Assume you are having yet another go at the men who are interested in TS women are gay trend, which would sound more like you tossing your own insecurities back at the men to me.)

You throw in a pitch about oppression, never acknowledging that oppression can go both ways, even between two individuals, depending on the surroundings. You claim superior intellect and humility to the folks responding to you (or given the following posts contracting with you).

You even go so far as to claim a superior spiritual position because you have to sacrifice social acceptance to follow your calling.

So it just comes across very hostile to guys in general... maybe a bit more time spent on targeting, and guys won't think they are walking into hostile territory just saying hello.

Call a man a prick. treat him like he is one... and what does he have to lose by being one? Treat him like a cash machine with a pull lever and don't expect him to love you... or even like you.

You talk about the young girls needing encouragement... well the young boys do too. They need to see that being one of the good guys will have rewards that are equal to what you get for being a 'prick'.

I'm rarely anything but respectful... but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

This thread should've ended with this post. Most Guys here don't like being called Tranny Chasers no more than Tgirls like being called Trannies. So is it the chicken or the egg?

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

I am only making an example out of those who no matter how much we make posts like these it will never compute. Their brain is a PC and what I am saying is MAC...

I am not trying to put anyone down, I am just pulling off the vail. They are already on the floor, I am just making sure they stay there.

I am not anyone to teach these assholes anything, I am simply giving them a look at the harsh reality of things.

Does the fact we TS have a hard time in life have any meaning to any of our admirer's life? Not really because what most see on the net are dicks and boobs.

Most don't really make a point to address us even as anything else then a nut off their dick.

I am not going to be nice about it - Sorry, that is wayyyyyy too much to ask. If you slap me on the face I don't turn the other cheek. Bitch you are gonna get socked.

I am a lady but when it comes to speaking my mind I don't hold back, no matter how you want to analyze it.

But I appreciate your very intelligent argument in the subject. Maybe you can get through to men. I just don't want to keep repeating myself.

[salvador]

I have to agree,

But it must be an emotional time for Danielle right now.




This thread has left me with very mixed reactions.

YodaJazz seemed to make some good points, and in no way asked for an ass kissing, rim or no rim. He pointed out that the tone of your OP was a bit hostile to guys in general, rather than 'pricks' which used to mean rude or insensitive men.

You lay out that there is a clear anger towards TS women, and give a reason for it, without actually saying what it is. (Assume you are having yet another go at the men who are interested in TS women are gay trend, which would sound more like you tossing your own insecurities back at the men to me.)

You throw in a pitch about oppression, never acknowledging that oppression can go both ways, even between two individuals, depending on the surroundings. You claim superior intellect and humility to the folks responding to you (or given the following posts contracting with you).

You even go so far as to claim a superior spiritual position because you have to sacrifice social acceptance to follow your calling.

So it just comes across very hostile to guys in general... maybe a bit more time spent on targeting, and guys won't think they are walking into hostile territory just saying hello.

Call a man a prick. treat him like he is one... and what does he have to lose by being one? Treat him like a cash machine with a pull lever and don't expect him to love you... or even like you.

You talk about the young girls needing encouragement... well the young boys do too. They need to see that being one of the good guys will have rewards that are equal to what you get for being a 'prick'.

I'm rarely anything but respectful... but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

[whatsupwithat]

don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

Great post, Sean. And love that last line. That gray area between the subjective and objective is so fascinating to me in relation to us truly building a community. We all come from the subjective experience, but using that in a positive, unselfish, and unifying way is oh so tricky and delicate. But others have done it, so there's no reason we can't. :)

[hippifried]

But I appreciate your very intelligent argument in the subject. Maybe you can get through to men. I just don't want to keep repeating myself.
Huh? Could you go over all of this one more time? :wink:

Seriously though: I'm just into all this for my own fun. I don't know where that puts me on the sexual vocabulary list. Don't care really. Butteye do know that everybody has their own level of neurosis & their own motivations for doing what they do. Far be it from me to get all self righteous about what anyone else does with their own life. Especially when I'm in here checking things out. There's no one size fits all when it comes to the attitudes of people. Even experience doesn't make stereotypes into truth.

As for you Danielle, I must admit that I was sad to see it go, but most of that is regret for blowing off my chance to visit during your last working tour of Phoenix. Oh well. No use crying over unspilled cream. Not knowing you personally, all I can say is good luck in your endeavors, pick your battles carefully, & try to see the bright side of things. Sounds Pollyannaish, but it does wonders for the nerves & keeps the ulcers at bay. AAAUUUUUMMMMMM!

Oh, & what's up with this?

Why was it that before your grammar sucked, your spelling was shit, your capitalisation was fucked and your punctuation was non-existant?

Oh, yeah. And you raved a lot.

And yes, I did pay attention and panned for the flecks of gold.

But now - you could teach me English. And logic. And poetry.
Aren't you supposed to get dumber when you remove the brain? :shock:

:shrug

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

As for you Danielle, I must admit that I was sad to see it go, but most of that is regret for blowing off my chance to visit during your last working tour of Phoenix. Oh well. No use crying over unspilled cream. Not knowing you personally, all I can say is good luck in your endeavors, pick your battles carefully, & try to see the bright side of things. Sounds Pollyannaish, but it does wonders for the nerves & keeps the ulcers at bay. AAAUUUUUMMMMMM!


But now - you could teach me English. And logic. And poetry.
Aren't you supposed to get dumber when you remove the brain? :shock:

:shrug

Ummmmm thanks for the compliment?

[thx1138]

@ Daniella: you wrote: 1: Girls who are just starting out need encouragement - Jennifer Paris was not always Jennifer Paris. She started some where... thx1138: Any comment on this thread? http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=503584#503584 It appears to be a case of trannies trashing trannies.

[GinX]

There is no loathing like self loathing.

It's a damn shame that "gender identity disorder" is in the DSM-IV and "self-loathing homosexual" is not.

Because it is the cock-obsessed "chasers" who are in the most need of help.

The unfortunate reality is that many of these losers are such horrid misogynists that their own mothers and sisters have repeatedly rejected them and their spiteful ways. Yet they go on to treat their wives and girlfriends, including transsexual women, with the same scorn. It is ironic then that chasers are called transfans because the sad reality is that a transfan has contempt for transsexual women, just as he talks down to every other woman in his life.

Why do these sickos hate women? ...Ultimately, chasers hate themselves the most. And since many are swishy autogynophiliacs who dress up and enjoy taking it up the backside, they misplace their self-hatred on the woman they fetishize themselves as, and this contempt is then displaced onto other, more successful, feminine individuals in their lives.

If only the pre-op lover could just come to terms with himself as a gay man and gain ease with his own feminine side! Self-accepting gay men don't hate women, and gay men love their mothers. Tranny-chasing and tranny-hating (two sides of the same coin) would disappear. The world would be a better place!


I think part of the issue here is this: does a pre-op lover really need to come to terms with himself as a gay man? Certainly, it may very well be true that some men who enjoy bottoming to a pre-op are indeed gay and may not have made that realization yet; however, that is certainly not true of all of them. I think this problem stems from the fact that we tend to identify and label certain acts as being gay or straight rather defining the person as gay or straight. A man who enjoys being anally stimulated/penetrated is not necessarily gay...he simply finds pleasure in the purely mechanical act. Remember, the prostate is an erogenous zone in the male. If a man asks his wife/girlfriend to do him with a strap-on from time to time, does that make him gay?

Another part of this issue is that some men who fall into the aforementioned category are often derided themselves and frequently taunted with the epithets of 'faggot' and 'queer'...believe me, I know because I happen to fall into this category. When you get met with hostility, it's natural to return that hostility. Of course, there is no excuse for 'chasers' to be rude, spiteful or hateful when they can't get their way.

I think the most important thing to do is not to worry about attaching a label to anyone and rather just make the earnest attempt to understand another person's ideas and motivations.

[Steve-Oh]

I read a variety of forums and there are always the self serving know-it-alls who feel the need to make others feel inferior if they disagree with them.

Fuck em.

Danielle, you're right to not take shit from those needle dicks.
Just ignore them. That's the worst punishment they can't handle.

Life's too short & too complicated to give all the assholes a second thought. It's hard though - there are SOOO many of them and some of the hateful shit they come up with makes your head spin.

Your fans far outnumber your detractors.

Have a nice weekend, Hun. Stay on the bright side. I hope I can take care of you if you decide to tour thru my town again!

[yodajazz]

but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

I am only making an example out of those who no matter how much we make posts like these it will never compute. Their brain is a PC and what I am saying is MAC...

I am not trying to put anyone down, I am just pulling off the vail. They are already on the floor, I am just making sure they stay there.

I am not anyone to teach these assholes anything, I am simply giving them a look at the harsh reality of things.

Does the fact we TS have a hard time in life have any meaning to any of our admirer's life? Not really because what most see on the net are dicks and boobs.

Most don't really make a point to address us even as anything else then a nut off their dick.

I am not going to be nice about it - Sorry, that is wayyyyyy too much to ask. If you slap me on the face I don't turn the other cheek. Bitch you are gonna get socked.

I am a lady but when it comes to speaking my mind I don't hold back, no matter how you want to analyze it.

But I appreciate your very intelligent argument in the subject. Maybe you can get through to men. I just don't want to keep repeating myself.

Danielle you are exactly right in saying that some people can’t compute. Out of every large diverse group people you will find insensitive people. But the other side of that is there are also sensitive people that understand more than you know. Men who are attracted transsexual have an inner struggle to define who they really are. No their struggle are not as visible as trans women, but it is still a struggle with the exact same forces as trans women. I have read your posts and you have repeated many times that we don’t understand or care. But if you look at how long I have realized about my attractions to trans women, I have been struggling with this for decades longer than you. I am in no way denying the struggles and hardships that you went through. I am saying to assume that I or others can never understand is not true. We love you with a deep biological urge, and our language does not even have a word for us to define ourselves. We live with the loneliness of not feeling free to talk to anyone about, the guilt, but the most difficult thing is to come to understand ourselves and be at peace with it. Gays do not completely understand nor straights, not even our families, especially. We finally find a place where we can share our feelings here on HA, and then very women we admire call us the worst names, like “gay cock loving tranny chasers”, over and over.

I hate to say this but I must. I believe that view of men has been warped by your occupation. You constantly saw men for only one part of their expression. I have been trained to see people as beings in a larger perspective, plus my sexual experience is relatively limited compared to yours. So that influences my life views away from sexuality. For example, I was a complete virgin until I was twenty three.

I am saying this not just to you, but I see you as a prime example. trans women focusing so much energy on negativity, that you really end up feeding hate and neglecting love. If you don’t feed an emotion it will eventually die. Hate itself is a negative energy will turn on itself and self destruct. The universe is governed by laws. Destructive energy will have negative consequences, whether you spend time fighting it yourself, or not. Take your slap on the cheek example. If you walk away, they often are demoralized to see that their best shot has not hurt you. Often other people will see their attack and take care of them with out you saying a word. Or they go onto someone else to feed their negativity, but end up more serious consequences than what you could have done. The worst thing is that when their negativity has no where to go, it attacks their own bodies and they get serious diseases like cancer. But as long you hold on to them you are subject to same disease. The concept of forgiveness is simply letting go of someone else’s negative energies. It frees you much more than the offender.

On the other hand if you walk away and spend time with love, creativity, productivity and other positive energies, they will attract after their own kind. If you can work to see the good side of people, you will bring out that aspect of their nature, with positive results. Yes there are bad people out there, but there are many good people that you don’t recognize because you aren’t looking. This is true of everyone, including myself. And sometimes, being positive will even bring out the good in ‘bad’ people. I have worked with juvenile felony offenders, and others. There are plenty of positive people here on HA. People in the arts is just one category of good people here.

These are ‘deep’ spiritual lessons, that a lot of people are not ready for, especially here, but you are ready for them. I paid to get these lessons as much money as some of your surgeries and I have seen them tested for longer than you have been on the planet. I give them to you because of the love you have already given, and the great potential that you have.

I thank you for the giving of yourself. I am just one of many. I have said a lot here but I don’t have the words to tell you how special you are.

You said in your post that you wanted people to see the “harsh reality”. But the other reality is love, beauty and life itself. Each day is a new opportunity to find positive things in your existence. You already know these things. The next thing is to put them into practice. It's a life long job, but the benefits are great!

P.S. Before I could finish my long post two people right before me are saying the same thing I am saying, but each in his own way.

[beavisimo]

It is a shame that the assholes of which Danielle speaks cannot be addressed personally. Instead all of us t-girl admirers--"faggots or chasers" which some of you like to call us are all lumped together. I guess this is all helping my inner conflict and will just stick to gg.

[hippifried]

As for you Danielle, I must admit that I was sad to see it go, but most of that is regret for blowing off my chance to visit during your last working tour of Phoenix. Oh well. No use crying over unspilled cream. Not knowing you personally, all I can say is good luck in your endeavors, pick your battles carefully, & try to see the bright side of things. Sounds Pollyannaish, but it does wonders for the nerves & keeps the ulcers at bay. AAAUUUUUMMMMMM!


But now - you could teach me English. And logic. And poetry.
Aren't you supposed to get dumber when you remove the brain? :shock:

:shrug

Ummmmm thanks for the compliment?
Oh absolutely a compliment. I know it's hard to tell sometimes, but that's just because I'm a "smartass". I know this because Mom always told me so, right before she threw the shoe. :lol: :shrug

[SarahG]

As for you Danielle, I must admit that I was sad to see it go, but most of that is regret for blowing off my chance to visit during your last working tour of Phoenix. Oh well. No use crying over unspilled cream. Not knowing you personally, all I can say is good luck in your endeavors, pick your battles carefully, & try to see the bright side of things. Sounds Pollyannaish, but it does wonders for the nerves & keeps the ulcers at bay. AAAUUUUUMMMMMM!


But now - you could teach me English. And logic. And poetry.
Aren't you supposed to get dumber when you remove the brain? :shock:

:shrug

Ummmmm thanks for the compliment?
Oh absolutely a compliment. I know it's hard to tell sometimes, but that's just because I'm a "smartass". I know this because Mom always told me so, right before she threw the shoe. :lol: :shrug

Can't be that bad if she's only throwing shoes at you.

[vietboy]

I think this problem stems from the fact that we tend to identify and label certain acts as being gay or straight rather defining the person as gay or straight. A man who enjoys being anally stimulated/penetrated is not necessarily gay...he simply finds pleasure in the purely mechanical act. Remember, the prostate is an erogenous zone in the male. If a man asks his wife/girlfriend to do him with a strap-on from time to time, does that make him gay?
Hell yes.

Ask the average straight woman what she thinks of such activity. The vast majority of straight women consider those actions gay.

And I don't think you should ignore their opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think your position is that acts or actions don't necessarily define a person; instead, a man is defined by how he fancies himself. Surely though it is absurd to claim a man who eats meat is not a carnivore if he believes that he is actually a vegetarian!

Just as there are different ways to eat meat, there are also different ways to have gay sex, such as receiving anal sex or being intimate with a male. I believe that actions speak louder than words, and no matter how much a guy protests, if he participates in gay sex, then he is gay.

As a corollary, a guy who insists that he is gay is not taken seriously if he has not had gay sex. Thus, Norm Peterson on Cheers was not considered gay even though he insisted such, so as to be taken seriously as an interior designer. But if Norm the interior designer had revealed that he enjoyed buttsecks, even if it was only with Vera, then he would have fulfilled the gay criteria for most people and probably gone on to be a successful interior designer.


Another part of this issue is that some men who fall into the aforementioned category are often derided themselves and frequently taunted with the epithets of 'faggot' and 'queer'...believe me, I know because I happen to fall into this category.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you are 'queer', or are you saying that people taunt you with the 'queer' epithet? 'Faggot' is an epithet and and 'queer' can be an epithet, depending on the context, similar to 'honky' and 'gringo', respectively. But 'gay' is not an epithet, nor is 'white'. Both are labels that have utility.


I think the most important thing to do is not to worry about attaching a label to anyone and rather just make the earnest attempt to understand another person's ideas and motivations.
Gay is just about the only mainstream label that is still rejected by many people who are arguably gay. When it comes to this label alone, some gays reject it on the basis that "labels don't matter." I believe this denial of reality is actually motivated by shame. No one should feel ashamed of being gay.

[Odelay]

If a man asks his wife/girlfriend to do him with a strap-on from time to time, does that make him gay?

Hell yes.

Ask the average straight woman what she thinks of such activity. The vast majority of straight women consider those actions gay.

...

vietboy, I actually appreciate your relatively new voice to this forum and on some opinions that you've professed I have actually nodded my head thinking... "yeah I agree with that." But much of what you've written in this thread and especially this comment above is ridiculous. Not so much by the content of your opinion because everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but by the tone... as if you're some sort of expert on any of this, which let me tell you... you're definitely not.

A gf or wife using a dildo on a straight guy is called pegging. It's a well known heterosexual activity. Is it super common? Probably not. But there is many an established sex expert who have made the claim that this is a heterosexual activity.

If you don't believe me, read Dan Savage's sex column every week for 1 whole year and it will open your eyes about sexuality. And before you start criticizing Savage's opinion, understand he's been doing this for something like 15-20 years, non-stop, is connected into the gay, lesbian, bi and trans communities, gives advice to all, and does not rely on his own opinion but consults with every imaginable sex expert in the world. It's his life's work and he's damn, damn good at what he does.

Now... as to your point about what the "vast majority of women" think? You made me laugh. I once started talking to my Catholic, 30 year old girlfriend about her receiving anal sex from me. She was hesitant but eventually came around to talking about it and then out of the blue told me that she wanted to peg me. That I could do anal sex on her but she wanted to use a strap-on on me.

I never even brought this up. It was her idea to peg me. And mind you, I've never spoken at all about my appreciation of trans women to her. I am pretty sure she believes I am completely heterosexual.

You simply have no basis on which to judge what the "vast majority" of heterosexual women think and believe.

And to repeat... it's not your opinions that I take issue with. It's your know it all attitude. There's lots of know-it-all's rummaging around on this forum so I'm not really trying to single you out here. I'm just saying that if you want to be taken seriously amongst the serious people here, you might want to try phrasing your opinions in a different manner.

[vietboy]

A gf or wife using a dildo on a straight guy is called pegging. It's a well known heterosexual activity. Is it super common? Probably not. But there is many an established sex expert who have made the claim that this is a heterosexual activity.
You might be right. I don't anyone pegging me as a gay man, so perhaps it is this insecurity which drives my more ridiculous posts.


Now... as to your point about what the "vast majority of women" think? You made me laugh. I once started talking to my Catholic, 30 year old girlfriend about her receiving anal sex from me. She was hesitant but eventually came around to talking about it and then out of the blue told me that she wanted to peg me. That I could do anal sex on her but she wanted to use a strap-on on me.

I never even brought this up. It was her idea to peg me. And mind you, I've never spoken at all about my appreciation of trans women to her. I am pretty sure she believes I am completely heterosexual.

You simply have no basis on which to judge what the "vast majority" of heterosexual women think and believe.
Well, I appreciate your anecdote, but an anecdote is no basis on which to refute a generalization! Just joking... :) I enjoy this forum and I don't want to be pegged as an asshole so thank you for the advice!

[Odelay]

You simply have no basis on which to judge what the "vast majority" of heterosexual women think and believe.
Well, I appreciate your anecdote, but an anecdote is no basis on which to refute a generalization! Just joking... :) I enjoy this forum and I don't want to be pegged as an asshole so thank you for the advice!

Yes, I knew you could catch me on the anecdote thing. 8)

However, the anecdote is a doozy when looking at your premise. If many a heterosexual women would be appalled at the idea of a bf wanting to be pegged (as you claim), then isn't it equally shocking that 1 pretty normal heterosexual woman would bring up pegging her guy. It entirely reverses supposedly conventional heterosexual female thinking.

In the end, activity doesn't necessarily define one's orientation. Activities such as bondage, s&m, asphyxiation, and many other alternative sexual activities can be practiced in a 100% gay relationship, 100% hetero relationship, or just about in any other context. Men have a g-spot near their prostate. I know. I've felt it while masturbating and it was a rush. Why wouldn't a hetero man, knowing about this g-spot, want his gf to explore it with a dildo?

Like I said... I like some of your ideas, that's why I replied to this. I hope you continue to participate.

[Justawannabe]

I have to agree with some parts of the above posts.

Calling an activity gay makes no sense to me. Let's go back a few decades and you would have folks saying a man is gay if he's not on top, same logic. Gay is activity between two people of the same gender (or sex if you don't believe in non-genital gender). I mean we don't say cocksucking is a gay activity and a woman doing it is just a gay man in denial.

Anyway... too tired to make much sense... so I'll shut up now.

Sean

[vietboy]

Calling an activity gay makes no sense to me. Let's go back a few decades and you would have folks saying a man is gay if he's not on top, same logic. Gay is activity between two people of the same gender (or sex if you don't believe in non-genital gender). I mean we don't say cocksucking is a gay activity and a woman doing it is just a gay man in denial.
To belabor the issue, it might be argued that any act received by a man is 'gay' if it can only be realistically performed by a man or in simulation of a man's organ. So with respect to Justawannabe's examples (a man not being on top and oral sex), both are NOT 'gay' because in both situations, either a man or a woman can perform the oral sex or be on top. The fact a woman can perform oral sex or ride on top 'redeems' the act from being exclusively a part of gay repertoire, so to speak.

However, if a man receives anal sex, using either a penis or a dildo (a faux-phallus), then that act might be considered as 'gay' because a penis, or penis-like object, is required. In other words, receiving a dildo up your ass might be 'gay' because it is a simulation of having a cock up your ass. Similarly, if a guy sucks a cock, then that would be construed as a 'gay' activity under this definition.

If you're so comfortable with your sexuality that you get easily annoyed by gay threads, please quietly move on. There is no need for flaming.

[GinX]

I think this problem stems from the fact that we tend to identify and label certain acts as being gay or straight rather defining the person as gay or straight. A man who enjoys being anally stimulated/penetrated is not necessarily gay...he simply finds pleasure in the purely mechanical act. Remember, the prostate is an erogenous zone in the male. If a man asks his wife/girlfriend to do him with a strap-on from time to time, does that make him gay?
Hell yes.

Ask the average straight woman what she thinks of such activity. The vast majority of straight women consider those actions gay.

And I don't think you should ignore their opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think your position is that acts or actions don't necessarily define a person; instead, a man is defined by how he fancies himself. Surely though it is absurd to claim a man who eats meat is not a carnivore if he believes that he is actually a vegetarian!

Just as there are different ways to eat meat, there are also different ways to have gay sex, such as receiving anal sex or being intimate with a male. I believe that actions speak louder than words, and no matter how much a guy protests, if he participates in gay sex, then he is gay.

As a corollary, a guy who insists that he is gay is not taken seriously if he has not had gay sex. Thus, Norm Peterson on Cheers was not considered gay even though he insisted such, so as to be taken seriously as an interior designer. But if Norm the interior designer had revealed that he enjoyed buttsecks, even if it was only with Vera, then he would have fulfilled the gay criteria for most people and probably gone on to be a successful interior designer.


Another part of this issue is that some men who fall into the aforementioned category are often derided themselves and frequently taunted with the epithets of 'faggot' and 'queer'...believe me, I know because I happen to fall into this category.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you are 'queer', or are you saying that people taunt you with the 'queer' epithet? 'Faggot' is an epithet and and 'queer' can be an epithet, depending on the context, similar to 'honky' and 'gringo', respectively. But 'gay' is not an epithet, nor is 'white'. Both are labels that have utility.


I think the most important thing to do is not to worry about attaching a label to anyone and rather just make the earnest attempt to understand another person's ideas and motivations.
Gay is just about the only mainstream label that is still rejected by many people who are arguably gay. When it comes to this label alone, some gays reject it on the basis that "labels don't matter." I believe this denial of reality is actually motivated by shame. No one should feel ashamed of being gay.


It's not my position that anyone should feel ashamed about being anything; rather, it is merely my position that no one should have to endure a label that another person forces upon him or her because of another person's perception.

Your position that a married woman would consider her husband gay if he asked her to top him is an over-generalization and should be avoided. Need I remind you that mainstream society still views sex with a pre-op TS to be gay sex, even if you are the one doing the topping? Are you comfortable with that?

If we want to further this with precise definitions, then it should be noted that a homosexual is defined as human being who desires intimate relations with members of the same sex, exclusivesly, just as a heterosexual is a human being who desires intimate relations with members of the opposite sex, exclusively.

While a member of this board, I've read that pre-op TS women should be viewed as women, period...but I've also read statements by some people that any man who desires sexual relations with a pre-op TS is not 100% straight....so what can we deduce? Are we to believe that sex between a man and a pre-op should strictly be viewed as sex between man and woman, regardless of the acts involved, and therefore heterosexual sex....or do we believe that sex between a man and a pre-op TS indicates, at the very least, that man is bisexual...or do we leave these considerations aside and allow those involved to determine what nomenclature best suits them and we should simply resist the desire to pigeon-hole someone with a term that WE think fits them best?

What do you think?

[DC]

Who cares its just getting off.....

[yodajazz]

It's not my position that anyone should feel ashamed about being anything; rather, it is merely my position that no one should have to endure a label that another person forces upon him or her because of another person's perception.

Your position that a married woman would consider her husband gay if he asked her to top him is an over-generalization and should be avoided. Need I remind you that mainstream society still views sex with a pre-op TS to be gay sex, even if you are the one doing the topping? Are you comfortable with that?

If we want to further this with precise definitions, then it should be noted that a homosexual is defined as human being who desires intimate relations with members of the same sex, exclusivesly, just as a heterosexual is a human being who desires intimate relations with members of the opposite sex, exclusively.

While a member of this board, I've read that pre-op TS women should be viewed as women, period...but I've also read statements by some people that any man who desires sexual relations with a pre-op TS is not 100% straight....so what can we deduce? Are we to believe that sex between a man and a pre-op should strictly be viewed as sex between man and woman, regardless of the acts involved, and therefore heterosexual sex....or do we believe that sex between a man and a pre-op TS indicates, at the very least, that man is bisexual...or do we leave these considerations aside and allow those involved to determine what nomenclature best suits them and we should simply resist the desire to pigeon-hole someone with a term that WE think fits them best?

What do you think?

Well put! Personally, I define men that like pre-ops as bisexual. But sex labels are rarely understood in the depth of their meanings. For a person who strongly attracted to t's, saying that they are bisexual would probably add more confusion than it helps. I have said that sex labels are more like general directions than specific behaviors. So the bottom line is that people should be able to define themselves, because they know who they are in their hearts better than any label maker. Label should not be so important anywhere, but especially here. But the debate here goes on endlessly.

I find it especially ironic when t-people, who demand the right to define themselves, get upset when the people who love them ask to define themselves.

[uchetal]

I'm a rookie poster but also a husband , father, and an educator.
I have followed the recent post from Danielle and the replies. Danielle I commend you and support you and your post.

As part of a Masters class in Human Sexuality a few years ago, I chose for my topic, Violence against Transexuals. An article, detaling the trial of the scum bags who killed Gwen Arajuo made me discussed and saddened. How could people treat another human being like this? What my research uncovered is that, there was not much that had been written about violence against transexuals or transgendered individuals. I searched the Internet for weeks looking for information. I did find news articles about the transexual who was, assaulted, beaten, or murdered. Some crimes in which the perpertrator was found, some unfound. The more I read the more upset I got. My surprise was that there were not specific studies or long researched articles about the violence that was committed and, by the way, is still occuring.

My research brought me to the multiple Internet porn sites but also brought me to sites were transexual/transgendered individuals either had a voice or an advocate. I tried to learn as much as I could about TS/TG individuals, lifestyle and communities and I am still learning.

To make a long story short, what did I learn? I learned that as a human race, certain factions of it do not, and will not, accept people because they are different. Xenophobia is the term. Look at history and it shows how violent people can be toward other human beings because they are different. Let me list some examples that have had in impact on our society.
The plight of American Indians, Japanese-Americans, Emmitt Till, Brandon Teena, Matthew Shepard, Amanico Corrales, Gwen Araujo. Forgive me for those I did not list. All these people were persecuted because of one thing: they were different in some way. Someone or some people took it upon themselves to try and rid the world, or at least their town, of these people. Unfortunately incidents like these continue.

I have nothing against the woman or people who post here, unless of course you are mean an unaccepting. If you are on here to ridicule, demean, and put down the folks who do post here, you are a bully. Not a stong one I might add. You are no better then the people who persecuted the groups of people I mentioned above.

I will leave you all with a quote from George Sanatyana - " Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

[jimbobw2]

I am not angry, have issues, let men rule my world, or even rude comments.

However I do worry about what it is said because:

1: Girls who are just starting out need encouragement - Jennifer Paris was not always Jennifer Paris. She started some where...
2: Men need to learn how to respect women
3: I stand up to pricks - does this defy me as an angry person? To those who are haters ... yes
4: Because I care, and that makes me someone special... Caring is a great thing - Another misconception.
5: Because I CAN
6: Pricks need to be put in their place
6: Because I want to make an example of bad behavior
7: Because men constantly ask why we get angry and hate on "chasers"
8: should I go on?

you have 2 six's :?:

[jimbobw2]

but if your going to get all high and mighty about who you are, and what you've had to go through... don't slap the guy standing next to you down like he has no value. You don't want it done to you, stop throwing you own slurs around.

I don't know, just this post I both wanted to applaud and shout at the same time... lifting up your own is a wonderful thing... doing it by vilifying others is not.

Sean

I am only making an example out of those who no matter how much we make posts like these it will never compute. Their brain is a PC and what I am saying is MAC...

I am not trying to put anyone down, I am just pulling off the vail. They are already on the floor, I am just making sure they stay there.

I am not anyone to teach these assholes anything, I am simply giving them a look at the harsh reality of things.

Does the fact we TS have a hard time in life have any meaning to any of our admirer's life? Not really because what most see on the net are dicks and boobs.

Most don't really make a point to address us even as anything else then a nut off their dick.

I am not going to be nice about it - Sorry, that is wayyyyyy too much to ask. If you slap me on the face I don't turn the other cheek. Bitch you are gonna get socked.

I am a lady but when it comes to speaking my mind I don't hold back, no matter how you want to analyze it.

But I appreciate your very intelligent argument in the subject. Maybe you can get through to men. I just don't want to keep repeating myself.

Here is a better son for ya haha

Remember Helen Reddy ;)

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

CHORUS
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman

You can bend but never break me
'cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
'cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul

CHORUS

I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long long way to go
Until I make my brother understand

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
Oh, I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong

FADE
I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong
I am woman


Roar on!!! :p

[Justawannabe]

vietboy...

You actually helped illustrate my point pretty well... We're back to the old saying a man who fucks ten thousand women is straight as an arrow until he so much as looks at one cock, then he's gay... and in most of the posters views around here, always was, just in denial. That's what bugs me.

It's not that there is anything wrong with being gay. It's that it is being portrayed like some for of contaminant... one part per billion is enough to call it 'gay'. There is 100% pure straight... and everyone else is 'gay'.

Oh and in your example above... anal play comes with fingers tongues and other implements too... so perfectly possible for a woman to be the actor in that play. Still a 'gay' activity? Two women using a strap on between them are NOT have straight sex, even if a dildo is a penis substitute.

Two men kissing is gay to me... because two men are doing it, same applies to every other activity. It's whos involved, not what they are doing.

- I don't think I was nasty in my previous post so not sure where your telling me to move on...

Sean

[bob69]

My 2 cents:

-The label gay is very relative. To "mainstream" society everyone on this board IS gay...even if you are just getting excited by looking at the pictures of a TS. To a ts woman she is a woman, as are others who are transitioning from M2F. I doubt many TS girls consider they boyfriend gay, but the moment he really pisses them off you can bet that the word fagot will be thrown about.. and if anyone should have a good understanding of the effect such name calling has it would be someone who almost certainly was called that at some point. .
If my female partner really gets off on liking my ass and sticking her finger in there does that make her gay? And what if I enjoy it? My point is that it is such a relative term that it really shouldn't matter

-A lot of men who crave sex with a TS have trouble with their own fantasies. It is never easy to want something that society does not consider normal...and instead of accepting it as just sex they add guilt to the equation. Guilt that they then turn into resentment towards the very object they desire. Humans are very strange beasts. We want to be part of the group and to be seen as "normal" for the most part, so we create a persona for the world, at the same time who we really are and what we want is often in conflict with the image we present. It really shouldn't be a surprise then that so many clients of TS escorts are conflicted and might not behave or treat the girls as they should. This does not make it right or ok, but does explain it. Add to the mix fantasies and pornography and it is little wonder that many clients do not see Ts women as individuals, but just as a sex toy to be used to their satisfaction. Although, I think that last part also applies to GG who escort. I'm sad that there are a lot of unkind men out there that make you feel like crap..but there are also a lot of bitches out there that do the same. Accept the fact that some will treat you well and avoid the ones who don't... just like anyone else does.

[Alyssa87]

I just read every word in this thread.
Thanks for bringing it up Danielle!
YodaJazz i really think u hit the nail on the head.
A lot of u guys are more enlightened than i thought you'd be.
ill throw this out there.
Gay and Straight is based on Male&Female as we know it.
Most people are lucky enough to feel totally at peace with their born sexes.
But what about the miniscule percentage that isnt?
<----(like this lil beauty right here)
I know my Y chromosome makes me a male.
But i just dont feel, look like, or act like the typical male.
In fact i feel a lot closer to the other sex. I guess thats what makes me crazy (thanks DSM-IV!)

WELL where does that leave me? i have male genitals and DNA.. but thats about it.
I exude femininity. and i call myself a young woman.

So what does that say about a guy that wants sex or love with me? He is attracted to SOMETHING ELSE. Male genitals and female- everything else.

If we (humans) dont respect that there is a real gender spectrum then we cant ever correctly be labeled or named... TG's OR the men who want to lay with us.
...Not that thats important or anything 8)

[jimbobw2]

So what does that say about a guy that wants sex or love with me? He is attracted to SOMETHING ELSE. Male genitals and female- everything else.



I would say unless he really gets to know you and loves you for you, most likely SOMETHING ELSE.

[copperkitten]

I think tgirls are like heroin to submissive men. They grow up worshiping women, but there is nothing more submissive than being mounted. I think much of the emphasis on gayness may be misplaced. There are mostly submissive straight men that have been obsessed with porn and have gone from breasts to legs, legs to feet, feet to B&D, B&D to tgirls...so do they go to men from here, or is this the resting place for submissive men?I think they do.