Why do some tgirls who are obviously way too masculine......

[josue]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

[bat1]

You are who you are! women come in all sizes so why can't
tgirl?

[bat1]

all these women are over 6.2 I guess they look like men?



Trijntje Kever from The Hague at 8'4.4"
De-Fen Yao from China from China at 7' 8 1/2"
Sandy Allen from Shelbyville IN (USA) at 7' 4.25"
Maria Feliciana Santos (Brazil) at 7' 4 1/2"
Malgorzata Dydek, (Poland) at 7' 2"
Esther Fosuaah, Brong-Ahafo (Ghana) at 7' 1/2
Kimberly Diamond, Texas (USA) at 7'
Lyuba Shilo, Chernihiv (Ukraine) at 7'
Gwen Bachman, Englewood CO (USA) 6' 11"
Linda Bruno, Detroit MI (USA) 6' 11"
Gitika Srivastava, (USA - originally from India) 6' 11"
Ellen Bayer, Dallas TX (USA) 6' 10" Zainab Bibi (Pakistan) 6' 10"
Zainab Bibi (Pakistan) 6' 10"
Elena Kravchenko (Russia) 6' 10"
Jaana Kotova, West Virginia (USA, originally from Estonia) 6' 10"
Silvia Mesa, Florida International University FL (USA, originally from Spain) 6' 10"
Alana Renaud, Western Georgia University (USA)
6' 10"
Darina Yegerova, Novosibirsk (Russia) 6' 9 1/2"
Marina Burmistrova, (Russia) 6' 9"
Antje Dethloff, Kiel (Germany) 6' 9"
Nelly Fonova (Russia) 6' 9"
Ekaterina Gamova 6' 9"
Suzi Gyarfash, University of California CA (USA, originally from Israel) 6' 9"
Lindsay Hayward, Sacramento CA (USA) 6' 9"
Alena Krauchanka aka Elena Kravchenko (Belarus) 6' 9"
Kathleen McIntyre, Arizona (USA) 6' 9"
Connie Waikle, Los Angeles CA (USA) 6' 9"
Ugyur Yushaguli (People's Republic of China) 6' 9"
Sarah Foley, London (England) 6' 8 1/2"
Katarina Gärtner, Osnabrueck / Berlin (Germany) 6' 8 1/2"
Sylvia Klemmt (Germany) 6' 8 1/2"
Martine Lefebvre (France) 6' 8 1/2"
Kylee Ballensky, Eastern Michigan University (USA) 6' 8"
Rita Miniva Besa, Tallahassee FL (USA, originally from Zambia) 6' 8"
Vasso Beskaki (Greece) 6' 8"
Razija Brcaninovic, (USA, originally from Bosnia) 6' 8"
Kristina Cesnaviciute, FL (USA, originally from Kaunas, Lithuania) 6' 8"
Ricki Covette (USA) 6' 8"
Alyssa DeHaan, Grandville MI (USA) 6' 8"
Kelly Ditto, Fremont CA (USA) 6' 8"
Ronda Falkena, Ellicottville NY (USA) 6' 8"
Katie Feenstra, Grand Rapids MI (USA) 6' 8"
Olga Firsova, New York NY (USA) 6' 8"
Heidi Gillingham, TX (USA)
6' 8"
Barbara Hartman Lynn, IN (USA) 6' 8"
Anke Hillebrand, Duesseldorf (Germany) 6' 8"
Caroline Huttula, Hudiksvall (Sweden) 6' 8"
Julia Kiseleva (Uzbekistan) 6' 8"
Dominique Luijckx (The Netherlands) 6' 8"
Charlotte Lusschen, CA (USA) 6' 8"
Joyce Maddox, OH (USA) 6' 8"
Elena Matveeva (Ukraine) 6' 8"
Christa Morriss (USA) 6' 8"
Agnes Nemeth (Spain, originally from Hungary) 6' 8"
Belinda N., London (England) 6' 8"
Katie Payton, Greenville SC (USA) 6' 8"
Lindsey Prewitt, Lafayette LA (USA) 6' 8"
Sarah Roberts (England) 6' 8"
Rose-Marie Scheffler (France) 6' 8"
Rhonda Smith, Long Beach State University (USA) 6' 8"
Maria Stepanova (Russia) 6' 8"
Anne Donovan (USA) 6' 8"
Amanda Stringer, White Bluff TN (USA) 6' 8"
Lindsay Taylor, Santa Barbara CA (USA) 6' 8"
Krikit Ward, Utah (USA) 6' 8"
Haixia Zheng (China) 6' 8"
Tracey Braithwaite, Canberra (Australia) 6' 7 1/2"
Katja Bavendam, Bremen (Germany) 6' 7 1/2"
Eun-Ju Ha (Japan, originally from South Korea) 6' 7 1/2"
Oulia Merkoulova, Zarechie (Russia) 6' 7 1/2"
Olga Potashova (Russia) 6' 7 1/2"
Svetlana Rodionova (Spain, originally from the Ukraine) 6' 7 1/2"
Pascale van Roy (Belgium) 6' 7 1/2"
Mary Augenblick, NJ (USA) 6' 7"
Erica Anderson, North Easton Mass. (USA) 6' 7"
Kim Bell, Minnesota (USA) 6' 7"
Chandra Benton CA (USA) 6' 7"
Rita Besa, Florida (USA, originally from Zambia) 6' 7"
Barbara Bootz, New Jersey (USA) 6' 7"
Delores Bootz, New Jersey (USA) 6' 7"
Yulia (surname withheld) (Russia) 6' 7"
Sara Broome, Shallowater TX (USA) 6' 7"
Elke Bruns (Germany) 6' 7"
Jessica Bruyere, Cape Elizabeth ME (USA) 6' 7"
Lara Chaney, University of Idaho (USA) 6' 7"
Yngrid de Brito (Portugal, originally from Brazil) 6' 7"
Margaret de Ciman, KS (USA, originally from Canada) 6' 7"

[bat1]

Rupaul was 6'7 tall looks good to me :)

[the_corner]

Well... I guess that some girls transition anyway... because they really feel like they need to..... and honestly... who are we to judge on their decisions?.... maybe some girl can throw in some feedback on the topic?

[ShemaleFan]

Why do some tgirls who are obviously way too masculine......,you mean like this girl? :lol:

[melissacarter]

Part of what encouraged me to go farther was being the right size and proportions. It was critical to look "real". The idea of being clocked everywhere I go would have made every outing a fiasco. And I won't have that. I'm too full of myself.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Lordy thats because it's more than just about looks.



We have to focus on the whole.

[melissacarter]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler

[TsVanessa69]

Being transgendered is that our mentality and emotional state is that of a woman. Our inside. It kills me how people talk about the "right" height" or right body frame, or right shoe size. I remember a short Mexican tgirl who I thought was my friend telling me, only do "drag" at night, and never get breasts, because I was too big to pass as a girl. Now I am 6ft tall, and as another "girl" right here on HA pointed out, I wear a size 11 shoe. Thus making me really tall for a latina woman, with big hands and big feet. Did that stop me?? NO! I love my height, and I do hate my shoe size, yet I still managed to amass a shoe collection of beautiful shoes. Wo are you to tell someone that they are wrong for making the outside match whats inside?? My decision to transition to the point I am today was for ME and how I wanted to look and dress. SHAME on you for being so IGNORANT!! That goes for both males and other transexuals who think because they are a certain height or weight or bone structure to pick and choose who should and who should not transition. I see these alleged shorter girls get spooked just as fast, or faster than I do. I'm happy with the decisions I made in my life because I made them for ME!! And not bad huh????

[TsVanessa69]

Part of what encouraged me to go farther was being the right size and proportions. It was critical to look "real". The idea of being clocked everywhere I go would have made every outing a fiasco. And I won't have that. I'm too full of myself.
What is the 'right" size and porportions??? I am 6ft tall. 38D-30-44, with a size 11 foot and big hands. Is that the wrong size and porportion???

[melissacarter]

Part of what encouraged me to go farther was being the right size and proportions. It was critical to look "real". The idea of being clocked everywhere I go would have made every outing a fiasco. And I won't have that. I'm too full of myself.
What is the 'right" size and porportions??? I am 6ft tall. 38D-30-44, with a size 11 foot and big hands. Is that the wrong size and porportion???

Yes, Vanessa, unfortunately those are not acceptable proportions.

LOL!!! Just messin' with ya. Yr a fucking hottie and you know it!

[lisaparadise]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?now your not being very fair the fact is for the most part we transition because we can no longer live in the skin god gave us and think about it for a minute all genetic girls aernt 5 feet 2 in 100 pounds they just like we do come in all shapes and sizes and ya im 5 feet 6 130 and my body structure isnt what id like it to be but theres so much more to me and my sisters than what meets the eye, just remember some of us girls take enough shit from the real world we shouldnt have to take it in a board that accepts us.

[lisaparadise]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitleryou have a pretty shitty attitude sister,maybe you should look alittle closer next time you look in the mirrer you just may surprise yourself.

[melissacarter]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitleryou have a pretty shitty attitude sister,maybe you should look alittle closer next time you look in the mirrer you just may surprise yourself.

I'm a bit confused Lisa, what exactly is your point? I don't think I have a bad attitude, I think I'm being realistic. Do I still need to look in the mirrer?

[Steve-Oh]

Well, Melissa's attitude may not be shitty, IMO, but I can understand how some of the taller girls would disagree.

I will however, recommend a good firm spanking, Ms. Carter :twisted:

As far as size / proportions, etc, I like women who are tall and have good shoulders whether they are GG, TG / TS.

I'm 6'2" and love to see a woman eye to eye.

So, let's dance, ladies!

[trish]

so if a woman is born

1) handicapped by a male chromosome; and
2) an over sized chassis,

then she should just fake it through life as a man because people will just never believe she's woman?

if it was all about passing, then yeah, maybe that's right. BUT it's not all about passing and looking good. it's about living one's life with integrity.

[tgirlzoe]

If you can say that about anybody, you don't begin to understand transsexualism.

We don't transition so we can be hot little playthings for you boys. We transition because it's who we are and because we come to a point where we either stand up to society and force the issue or we die. Even if we're not suicidal, it's the whole idea that we've reached a point where the male life that we've failed miserably in living is over.

Yes, there are probably two types of transsexuals -- primary/secondary or HSTS/AGP -- but we all have to transition. Sorry if some of us offend you but you know what? There are a lot of ugly GGs out there too. GGs don't exist for your pleasure either.

People who don't pass shouldn't delude themselves into thinking they do pass better than they do. Every TS needs to be aware because their safety can be at stake if they are read. But neither should they drag themselves down because they don't think they pass well enough. Self-esteem and self-confidence are very important. Transition is not easy for anyone. Our lives are a bit of a tragedy, whether we transition when we're 16 or 60 and whether you think we're attractive or not. You're not a part of that decision.

[KiraHarden]

I'm 6-3 185lbs 38DDD-32-42 size 12 foot

So your saying I should have never have transitioned? I'm HWP for a woman with a med build. avg hands I guess

[TsVanessa69]

I'm 6-3 185lbs 38DDD-32-42 size 12 foot

So your saying I should have never have transitioned?
Thank you! That was my point. Because we are taller with bigger hands and feet, we can't transition?? Funny, we're the ones that turn guys on, big feet and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys love my big sexy feet, my larger than life body and my beautiful brown eye(s) and my heart of gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KiraHarden]

I'm 6-3 185lbs 38DDD-32-42 size 12 foot

So your saying I should have never have transitioned?
Thank you! That was my point. Because we are taller with bigger hands and feet, we can't transition?? Funny, we're the ones that turn guys on, big feet and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys love my big sexy feet, my larger than life body and my beautiful brown eye(s) and my heart of gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I may never pass 100% due to my height.( Oh well ) but I get more than my share of attention from men.

[Prospero]

This is a kind of funny assertion - that tall t girls should not transition. For god's sake what's wrong with tall girls? Its just prejudice that makes tall women - ts and rgs - so hung up. I used to go out with a girl who was 6' 4" - She was cute as hell but she walked with a slouch cos she thought she was too tall.
Asd the old song went: "Bless em all, the long and the short and the tall."

[Jasmine562]

Transition has nothing to do with passability. Its a mental thing that most of us go thru until we figure out what to do about it. Looks are important and so is passability but its not the most important thing. Happiness starts from within. I'm jealous of some of this girls their self confidence alone makes them beautiful I think.

[Bunzee]

i think all that people are trying to say is that being tall and masculine to begin with makes it harder for a girl to pass...thats really a no brainer

[dskreet2]

I've dated some tall tgirlz with wide shoulders, but I haven't dated one that looked like a man. Ladiez I have met with wide shoulders had sensitive areas in their shoulders. When I caress their shoulders with my tongue, they try to pull away. But I don't stop because being over 6 feet tall myself, I can take hold of the situation and "WORK IT!!!" Not bragging, just illustrating my point. 8)

Don't let a little extra of this or that make you wimper. Look how many threads of ladiez with big, huge, long, stiff Tootsie Roll Popz?!?! And also look at how many responses from admirers that "water in the mouth" over their pics and vids!!!

This is just my opinion! I had NO intention to disrespect anyone!!

Yes Vanessa, I enjoyed licking and sucking your feet too! :D

[TsVanessa69]

I'm 6-3 185lbs 38DDD-32-42 size 12 foot

So your saying I should have never have transitioned?
Thank you! That was my point. Because we are taller with bigger hands and feet, we can't transition?? Funny, we're the ones that turn guys on, big feet and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys love my big sexy feet, my larger than life body and my beautiful brown eye(s) and my heart of gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I may never pass 100% due to my height.( Oh well ) but I get more than my share of attention from men.
Exactly. And I say why try to pass?? Why not be happy with being a transexual. Why be embarrassed? It is waht it is. This is 2008. I realized i would never pass 100% either. But I'm happy with me, however other people view me.

[TsJamieCroft]

Im a very toned girl, and I was athletically built in my younger years. Sometimes im passable and sometimes im not. Getting spooked isnt always the best thing but it happens to the best of us. I have only been living as a girl and taking hormones for about a year now (always been a lady boy, lol) and im comfortable where im at in my transition I know I still have a ways to go but im becoming not only the woman but human being I want to be.

[dc_guy_75]

I can only imagine that being a tall makes transition even more difficult. While its an uphill battle for even the "average" tgirl, being tall likely brings another set of unique issues.

I admire these girls for being who they are and pursuing who they want to be, no matter what "frame" they may of been born with.

Tall girls have the best legs anyways...

[melissacarter]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa HitlerSo you transitioned because you thought you looked oh-so fish? lol Sorry, but there are some big girls out there that are over-all far more passable. I think you're being unrealistic in thinking that because you aren't getting spooked that you're not being clocked.

And if you never experienced GID, you shouldn't scoff at it. Your transsexual experience is no more valid than anyone's. Perhaps you are more of an autogynephiliac, and therefore are in it for the kinky thrill. Well if so, more power to you. But most girls here are not.

So maybe you should watch who you call a bullshitter when you are bullshitting yourself about your natural aptitude to be a girl. I can make a long list of tall TS that you could learn a lot from.

I never heard that term so I looked it up:

autogynephilia from Greek roots meaning “love of oneself as a woman” and defined it as a male’s propensity to be erotically aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman.

I guess you could call me that, although it's more. I identify as a female and it goes beyond erotic arousal. It's transferring all that existed on the male side and bringing it to the female side. What's left on the male side is an empty vacant building collecting dust.

Unfortunately you miss my point and it has nothing to do with being "fish", it in fact has nothing to do with me personally (I'll ignore the personal comments and consider us friends if you will). To make clear:

It is a choice to transition. It is not some great force within that controls all you do. You make the choice to feminize. And for those that are overtly male with no hope of passing they must accept the fact that every outing will bring stares. They cannot blame "society". Nor can they blame it on the "woman trapped inside my body".

[lisaparadise]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa HitlerSo you transitioned because you thought you looked oh-so fish? lol Sorry, but there are some big girls out there that are over-all far more passable. I think you're being unrealistic in thinking that because you aren't getting spooked that you're not being clocked.

And if you never experienced GID, you shouldn't scoff at it. Your transsexual experience is no more valid than anyone's. Perhaps you are more of an autogynephiliac, and therefore are in it for the kinky thrill. Well if so, more power to you. But most girls here are not.

So maybe you should watch who you call a bullshitter when you are bullshitting yourself about your natural aptitude to be a girl. I can make a long list of tall TS that you could learn a lot from.

I never heard that term so I looked it up:

autogynephilia from Greek roots meaning “love of oneself as a woman” and defined it as a male’s propensity to be erotically aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman.

I guess you could call me that, although it's more. I identify as a female and it goes beyond erotic arousal. It's transferring all that existed on the male side and bringing it to the female side. What's left on the male side is an empty vacant building collecting dust.

Unfortunately you miss my point and it has nothing to do with being "fish", it in fact has nothing to do with me personally (I'll ignore the personal comments and consider us friends if you will). To make clear:

It is a choice to transition. It is not some great force within that controls all you do. You make the choice to feminize. And for those that are overtly male with no hope of passing they must accept the fact that every outing will bring stares. They cannot blame "society". Nor can they blame it on the "woman trapped inside my body".this is where your dead wrong transitioning is not a choice for most of us its our destinty,for some its a matter of life and death and for you to put our sisters down because they dont meet your standards come on your just being silly,im 5 feet 6 130 size 9 shoe size and more passable then most and ya im a midget compared to some of my sisters but that doesnt give me the right to tell them how to live there live thats between them and there god thats my point and if you think you dont get clocked cause somehow you think your more woman then the rest of us i can only say welcome to realitty girl.

[Nelly Snores]

[quote="Nicole Dupree"][quote=melissacarter]Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler
hi Melissa

i think you should be more respectful of others.
please do some reading.

there are many types of transsexualism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_therapy

Most transsexuals assert that their brain-based inner perception of their sexual self, their identity, is who they really are, and so change their physical sex in an effort to be on the outside as they feel they are on the inside. If untreated, it can lead to mental and emotional problems, and sometimes suicide.

to some people this is a matter of life or death

and please dont be so arrogant because you dont look as hot and as passable as you might think

in this pic i see a tiny middle aged guy that just shaved his body and painted his lips.

you are coming across as "our friendly neighborhood stupid crossdresser" instead of "our friendly neighborhood fascist TS"

cheers

[BrendaQG]

What makes us transsexual is in our brains is so very true. But it would be foolish to deny that their is an element of choice in our lifestyle. How many people have what we have and do not ever act on it? Their is no way to know for sure.

It also seems to me that some sensitive nerves have been touched here. Us HHA's all look pretty damm good. Be we tall and statuesque or just average. I think the original poster had something more like this in mind.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Renee-Richards.jpg

That is at least half of the Ts world.

[tsntx]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

we dont become women to please your loser, closeted, insecure self... we do it for ourselves... sooner you deal w/ that picking out your next escort will be that much easier jackass

[Shining Star]

Some need to seek attention for delusions of grander. Who is anyone to judge, much less another trannie who is and who is not qualified to be what they are?

Have known and see some beautiful passable trannies, from club door persons, to those swanning down a NYC street like Naomi Cambell get called "a man" or hear "that's a guy" , so obviously the old adage about not fooling all of the people all of the time still rings true.

Have passed a good part of my life as a "woman" for whatever that means, and am here to tell you, most of the straight community, and indeed the gay as well considers all trannies "sick" and borderline if not actual freaks. Yes the more manly girls may be called "men in dresses", but have heard beautiful ones called "men with tits", so by no means believe just because you look "fish" or "cunty" that you are going to get a free pass. If some people had their way, we'd ALL be round up and at best locked away, at worst shot. That includes the more gorgeous ones as well. When ENDA was being debated, didn't hear anyone say "oh let's give the passable trannies rights, but not the TVs or men in dresses". Fact is they kept out ALL trannies, weather you looked like J-LO or Godzilla in a dress. That should show you just how far being "pretty" gets you.

In fact some consider the more passable girls a larger threat just as those considered light skinned blacks who passed back in the day a treat. Because they can slip by normal precautions, the passable girls can seduce "innocent" men and boys into relationships they'd otherwise avoid. I mean isn't that the argument many have made after a poor girl was found beaten and or killed?

[Felicia Katt]

Is it just me....

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/melissa651homeb_256.jpg

http://images.wolfgangsvault.com/images/catalog/detail/WIN720608-FP.jpg


when you talk about leaving behind a vacant building, make sure its not a glass house.

FK

[justatransgirl]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Gee, another newbie without a clue. Dude, size and looks have little to do with passing.

That's like saying the only guy who looks good is 300 lbs and rides a harley with bugs in his beard.

So here - go tell this honey she doesn't pass. :-)

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[justatransgirl]

Some need to seek attention for delusions of grander. Who is anyone to judge, much less another trannie who is and who is not qualified to be what they are?

Have known and see some beautiful passable trannies, from club door persons, to those swanning down a NYC street like Naomi Cambell get called "a man" or hear "that's a guy" , so obviously the old adage about not fooling all of the people all of the time still rings true.

Have passed a good part of my life as a "woman" for whatever that means, and am here to tell you, most of the straight community, and indeed the gay as well considers all trannies "sick" and borderline if not actual freaks. Yes the more manly girls may be called "men in dresses", but have heard beautiful ones called "men with tits", so by no means believe just because you look "fish" or "cunty" that you are going to get a free pass. If some people had their way, we'd ALL be round up and at best locked away, at worst shot. That includes the more gorgeous ones as well. When ENDA was being debated, didn't hear anyone say "oh let's give the passable trannies rights, but not the TVs or men in dresses". Fact is they kept out ALL trannies, weather you looked like J-LO or Godzilla in a dress. That should show you just how far being "pretty" gets you.

In fact some consider the more passable girls a larger threat just as those considered light skinned blacks who passed back in the day a treat. Because they can slip by normal precautions, the passable girls can seduce "innocent" men and boys into relationships they'd otherwise avoid. I mean isn't that the argument many have made after a poor girl was found beaten and or killed?

Shining Star - this is a very interesting comment.

I wonder why it is that I almost never get dissed on the street? Is it because I live in CA and not NYC? I'm not the most passable kid on the block, but I find that NOBODY CARES.

The only people who are freaked out by me are my neighbors at my beach house in Orange County. The only ones that have spoken to me since I transitioned is a Mormon couple across the alley and a friend in the next block.

Yet last night (in San Diego) Jessica and I spent the evening hanging out in our jacuzzi with our next door neighbors and other friends in our complex. Most know we are trans, AND lesbians, but we've lived here for 3 years and nobody has ever even mentioned the subject.

I really think it's in your attitude and how you relate to others as a TS.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old.

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I think we as a community worry too much about passing.

Less about being happy!

[Shining Star]

Some need to seek attention for delusions of grander. Who is anyone to judge, much less another trannie who is and who is not qualified to be what they are?

Have known and see some beautiful passable trannies, from club door persons, to those swanning down a NYC street like Naomi Cambell get called "a man" or hear "that's a guy" , so obviously the old adage about not fooling all of the people all of the time still rings true.

Have passed a good part of my life as a "woman" for whatever that means, and am here to tell you, most of the straight community, and indeed the gay as well considers all trannies "sick" and borderline if not actual freaks. Yes the more manly girls may be called "men in dresses", but have heard beautiful ones called "men with tits", so by no means believe just because you look "fish" or "cunty" that you are going to get a free pass. If some people had their way, we'd ALL be round up and at best locked away, at worst shot. That includes the more gorgeous ones as well. When ENDA was being debated, didn't hear anyone say "oh let's give the passable trannies rights, but not the TVs or men in dresses". Fact is they kept out ALL trannies, weather you looked like J-LO or Godzilla in a dress. That should show you just how far being "pretty" gets you.

In fact some consider the more passable girls a larger threat just as those considered light skinned blacks who passed back in the day a treat. Because they can slip by normal precautions, the passable girls can seduce "innocent" men and boys into relationships they'd otherwise avoid. I mean isn't that the argument many have made after a poor girl was found beaten and or killed?

Shining Star - this is a very interesting comment.

I wonder why it is that I almost never get dissed on the street? Is it because I live in CA and not NYC? I'm not the most passable kid on the block, but I find that NOBODY CARES.

The only people who are freaked out by me are my neighbors at my beach house in Orange County. The only ones that have spoken to me since I transitioned is a Mormon couple across the alley and a friend in the next block.

Yet last night (in San Diego) Jessica and I spent the evening hanging out in our jacuzzi with our next door neighbors and other friends in our complex. Most know we are trans, AND lesbians, but we've lived here for 3 years and nobody has ever even mentioned the subject.

I really think it's in your attitude and how you relate to others as a TS.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old.

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)Don't know if it is totally a unique NYC, to "out" a trannie that is; as have seen it done in Paris as well. Well say that the west coast probably is more laid back than NYC, which probably does contribute more to a "live and let live" attitude.

There are times you really feel sorry for some girls, I mean here they are walking down the street, or doing a bit of shopping, trying to get from here to there, and some idiot yells out "that's a man". Strange enough it seems the Blk and Latino men are famous for it here. Have seen girls, (and I won't lie, myself included), cross the street and or turn around and walk the otherway to avoid a group of young blk guys for fear of being shouted at.

Used to live in an area that was trannie central, and when-ever any of the local trannies would enter the supermarket, the boys who worked there would start going off. Most of these guys are Domican or Mexican, and at first sight thought the girls were gorgeous, then they began to put two and two together. Worse someone got wind many of the same girls had ads in back of the Village Voice, so guys could compare pictures to the actual person. My Spanish is not fluent, but over heard and understood enough to know the comments were NOT flattering.

My previous post was not meant to be overly harsh, but this debate has been going on for ages. Working girls versus non-working girls, passable versus non-passable, drag queens versus "true" (whatever that means these days), transgender, and so forth.

Again the bottom line is while being totally passable and beautiful helps one get over in society, one must remember that all is based upon people taking what they see at face value. If anyone doubts this theory, one only has to examine the usual same horrified reaction when one tells a guy the "T", and he truly believed one was a GG. Yes, some do stick around, but the relationship is rarely the same.

Personally one at times quite envys non-passing trannies. At least those whom are attracted to them know what they are getting at first and willing to be with them under those terms. Unlike these chasers out there who want a trannie that looks like a Playboy centerfold, but packs ten inches or more, fully functional.

[LAGent4ts]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and when all is said and done, we must all be beholden to ourselves first and foremost.

I cannot imagine what life would be like living my life as a female born in a man's body, let alone the self questioning and feelings of helplessness that I assume goes along with these feelings somewhere along the way.

I personally am not sure if I would have the internal fortitude / guts that I believe is necessary to first, face and accept the situation created by these internal feelings, let alone make a decision to actually do something about it and transition.

In my limited experience, I have to believe that the decision to transition is one that while difficult to reach, once made is done so with guts, determination and a desire to be true to onesself. Who in their right mind would subject themselves to the crap these ladies go through unless someone deep inside had to be free and brought to life anew.

If the girl within choses to live and be who she is, it should be of no concern to anyone but herself of how the flower ultimatly opens. We are all entitled to our opinions, however common sense, respect of the individual and good manners dictate that we should sometimes keep our opinions of others to ourselves, as the sharing of same can and will, only hurt and not help.

[altarica]

Nice cock and not that bad looking.I would most certainly suck on that gorgeous fucker. :shock:

[slinky]

I never heard that term so I looked it up:

autogynephilia from Greek roots meaning “love of oneself as a woman” and defined it as a male’s propensity to be erotically aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman.

I guess you could call me that, although it's more. I identify as a female and it goes beyond erotic arousal. It's transferring all that existed on the male side and bringing it to the female side. What's left on the male side is an empty vacant building collecting dust.

Unfortunately you miss my point and it has nothing to do with being "fish", it in fact has nothing to do with me personally (I'll ignore the personal comments and consider us friends if you will). To make clear:

It is a choice to transition. It is not some great force within that controls all you do. You make the choice to feminize. And for those that are overtly male with no hope of passing they must accept the fact that every outing will bring stares. They cannot blame "society". Nor can they blame it on the "woman trapped inside my body".


Wow.

Before reading this, I was going to make a post about the unpopular thesis of a certain doctor claiming that this phenomenon exists in a certain percentage of TS's, and here we have (for the first time that I've ever seen on one of these boards, someone outright copping to it. (I actually started a thread a fe days back about th difference between gender dysphoria and body disphoria, but it got totally ignored.

[KiraHarden]

Is it just me....

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/melissa651homeb_256.jpg

http://images.wolfgangsvault.com/images/catalog/detail/WIN720608-FP.jpg

No

[slinky]

Personally, I think the worst reason to become TG is by basing it on whether or not you'll look good as the other sex. If you feel you're a woman, I don't care if you look like a linebacker: transition. If you feel like a man, but think you'd make a beautiful looking woman, join NA*



*Narcissist's Anonymous

[slinky]

Not really apropos of anything: last nite I saw an Asian girl who apparently started off as a GG, transitioned FTM, and then transitioned back "M"TF. She seemed like the perfect MTF tranny (although she seemed to now be "CD" since I think she didn't do any surgery yet and spent most of the night playing with her fake boobs.

[Chaotic]

What is the 'right" size and porportions??? I am 6ft tall. 38D-30-44, with a size 11 foot and big hands. Is that the wrong size and porportion???

Paris Hilton: 5'11", size 11 feet. Just thought that needed to be pointed out. 8)

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and when all is said and done, we must all be beholden to ourselves first and foremost.

I cannot imagine what life would be like living my life as a female born in a man's body, let alone the self questioning and feelings of helplessness that I assume goes along with these feelings somewhere along the way.

I personally am not sure if I would have the internal fortitude / guts that I believe is necessary to first, face and accept the situation created by these internal feelings, let alone make a decision to actually do something about it and transition.

In my limited experience, I have to believe that the decision to transition is one that while difficult to reach, once made is done so with guts, determination and a desire to be true to onesself. Who in their right mind would subject themselves to the crap these ladies go through unless someone deep inside had to be free and brought to life anew.

If the girl within choses to live and be who she is, it should be of no concern to anyone but herself of how the flower ultimatly opens. We are all entitled to our opinions, however common sense, respect of the individual and good manners dictate that we should sometimes keep our opinions of others to ourselves, as the sharing of same can and will, only hurt and not help.

I agree LAGent. We cannot please everyone. As transexuals, we already face multiple prejudices in our society. I say just live and let live. If a guy likes you, then he likes you. If not, well there are other guys too who can and will appreciate you for YOU! It's not the end of the world (There's always something or someone for everyone's taste palette). People should worry more about their own inner peace and happiness IMO. And what they are in search of. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[TomSelis]

Not really apropos of anything: last nite I saw an Asian girl who apparently started off as a GG, transitioned FTM, and then transitioned back "M"TF. She seemed like the perfect MTF tranny (although she seemed to now be "CD" since I think she didn't do any surgery yet and spent most of the night playing with her fake boobs.

BWAH!?! :what

I shoulda came out last night.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Not really apropos of anything: last nite I saw an Asian girl who apparently started off as a GG, transitioned FTM, and then transitioned back "M"TF. She seemed like the perfect MTF tranny (although she seemed to now be "CD" since I think she didn't do any surgery yet and spent most of the night playing with her fake boobs.

BWAH!?! :what

I shoulda came out last night.

dude get in chat

[TsVanessa69]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and when all is said and done, we must all be beholden to ourselves first and foremost.

I cannot imagine what life would be like living my life as a female born in a man's body, let alone the self questioning and feelings of helplessness that I assume goes along with these feelings somewhere along the way.

I personally am not sure if I would have the internal fortitude / guts that I believe is necessary to first, face and accept the situation created by these internal feelings, let alone make a decision to actually do something about it and transition.

In my limited experience, I have to believe that the decision to transition is one that while difficult to reach, once made is done so with guts, determination and a desire to be true to onesself. Who in their right mind would subject themselves to the crap these ladies go through unless someone deep inside had to be free and brought to life anew.

If the girl within choses to live and be who she is, it should be of no concern to anyone but herself of how the flower ultimatly opens. We are all entitled to our opinions, however common sense, respect of the individual and good manners dictate that we should sometimes keep our opinions of others to ourselves, as the sharing of same can and will, only hurt and not help.

I agree LAGent. We cannot please everyone. As transexuals, we already face multiple prejudices in our society. I say just live and let live. If a guy likes you, then he likes you. If not, well there are other guys too who can and will appreciate you for YOU! It's not the end of the world (There's always something or someone for everyone's taste palette). People should worry more about their own inner peace and happiness IMO. And what they are in search of. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG
I strongly agree with the both of you!! Very well spoken on both parts. Now if the rest of society would see us in that way, what a difference it would make in many of our lives!

[TsVanessa69]

What is the 'right" size and porportions??? I am 6ft tall. 38D-30-44, with a size 11 foot and big hands. Is that the wrong size and porportion???

Paris Hilton: 5'11", size 11 feet. Just thought that needed to be pointed out. 8)
Actually Paris Hilton is 5'8" and size 11 shoe. But thanks for the comfort. Actually I've never had an issue with it myself. I love being the Amazon woman. In a form fitting micro mini dress and 4 inch heels, I love the attention I get!!!!!

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and when all is said and done, we must all be beholden to ourselves first and foremost.

I cannot imagine what life would be like living my life as a female born in a man's body, let alone the self questioning and feelings of helplessness that I assume goes along with these feelings somewhere along the way.

I personally am not sure if I would have the internal fortitude / guts that I believe is necessary to first, face and accept the situation created by these internal feelings, let alone make a decision to actually do something about it and transition.

In my limited experience, I have to believe that the decision to transition is one that while difficult to reach, once made is done so with guts, determination and a desire to be true to onesself. Who in their right mind would subject themselves to the crap these ladies go through unless someone deep inside had to be free and brought to life anew.

If the girl within choses to live and be who she is, it should be of no concern to anyone but herself of how the flower ultimatly opens. We are all entitled to our opinions, however common sense, respect of the individual and good manners dictate that we should sometimes keep our opinions of others to ourselves, as the sharing of same can and will, only hurt and not help.

I agree LAGent. We cannot please everyone. As transexuals, we already face multiple prejudices in our society. I say just live and let live. If a guy likes you, then he likes you. If not, well there are other guys too who can and will appreciate you for YOU! It's not the end of the world (There's always something or someone for everyone's taste palette). People should worry more about their own inner peace and happiness IMO. And what they are in search of. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG
I strongly agree with the both of you!! Very well spoken on both parts. Now if the rest of society would see us in that way, what a difference it would make in many of our lives!

I know that would be a milestone! Thanks girlie. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nowhere]

Look, I think there's some validity to the OP's argument, especially with the extreme late-coming transitioners, who have had testosterone have some extreme effects to the body, but the bottom line is effort and self-recognition. If a girl has the build of a linebacker and is as hairy as an ape, she had better drop a ton of weight and get it all lasered off. And, ALL girls should be on hormones immediately and indefinitely. The effects cannot be underestimated.

Let's give the example shown here:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/011_863_113.jpg

The problem with this girl is that she's taken ZERO hormones, as her body is clearly a slim man's one, and she's made no effort to drop musculature by cutting out the weights and dieting. That's the problem you have right here. I'm quite sure that if she didn't give as much effort as a beginning drag queen, she'd look a hell of a lot more like a woman.

It's not like it's 1950. The technology is out there. Use it.

The only rare exceptions i'd say the original argument is valid if a lot of time has passed and the body is so masculized by testosterone that no amount of surgery could change it (and age doesn't do that to everyone). There is a point when something is completely ridiculous and actually damaging to the community by reinforcing the stereotype of the 'bearded lady' that some of these late transitioners have to think of the interests of others over themselves and just not do it. The time has passed and it's best to move on. But, that's a small subset of girls...

[Steve-Oh]

Funny how the OP, who stirred up this whole mess hasn't chimed in at all.

The way I see it is Josue is disturbed that all the people he sees aren't to his/her liking, visually.

Here's a shocker: THERE ARE A FEW UNATTRACTIVE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET. Get over it.

Whether one is TS, CD, GG, WTF or BFD, not everyone is going to be beautiful. What are the uglies to do on a Friday night? Stay home? Go live in a monastary?

I demand fair treatment for Uglies! :soapbox

[emmatgirl]

The only rare exceptions i'd say the original argument is valid if a lot of time has passed and the body is so masculized by testosterone that no amount of surgery could change it (and age doesn't do that to everyone). There is a point when something is completely ridiculous and actually damaging to the community by reinforcing the stereotype of the 'bearded lady' that some of these late transitioners have to think of the interests of others over themselves and just not do it. The time has passed and it's best to move on. But, that's a small subset of girls...

this type of comment scares me to death. i am 27 now and just not ready financially or emotionally to transition. i wonder when the point of it being "too late" comes.

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/42/A0/79/70/C4/93/11/D9/8B/D4/98/C7/41/18/B7/17/oma/website_image.jpg

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/42/A0/79/70/C4/93/11/D9/8B/D4/98/C7/41/18/B7/17/oma/10/FDD2BAE072A411DAB1380D6B45A500E6.jpg

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/42/A0/79/70/C4/93/11/D9/8B/D4/98/C7/41/18/B7/17/oma/10/AACF4FD0C49311D994677DB84118B717.jpg

i think i am "ok" looking but i have a somewhat large frame (shoulders). am i doomed forever?


also, people say passing isn't that important - in my mind, its the MOST important thing. i just want to be a regular girl, and the thought of people viewing me as "a man with breasts" mortifies me. I just want to be normal.

[hungtung1]

Nice cock and not that bad looking.I would most certainly suck on that gorgeous fucker. :shock:Seconded! Yes indeedy.....

[hungtung1]

Look, I think there's some validity to the OP's argument, especially with the extreme late-coming transitioners, who have had testosterone have some extreme effects to the body, but the bottom line is effort and self-recognition. If a girl has the build of a linebacker and is as hairy as an ape, she had better drop a ton of weight and get it all lasered off. And, ALL girls should be on hormones immediately and indefinitely. The effects cannot be underestimated.

Let's give the example shown here:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/011_863_113.jpg

The problem with this girl is that she's taken ZERO hormones, as her body is clearly a slim man's one, and she's made no effort to drop musculature by cutting out the weights and dieting. That's the problem you have right here. I'm quite sure that if she didn't give as much effort as a beginning drag queen, she'd look a hell of a lot more like a woman.

It's not like it's 1950. The technology is out there. Use it.

The only rare exceptions i'd say the original argument is valid if a lot of time has passed and the body is so masculized by testosterone that no amount of surgery could change it (and age doesn't do that to everyone). There is a point when something is completely ridiculous and actually damaging to the community by reinforcing the stereotype of the 'bearded lady' that some of these late transitioners have to think of the interests of others over themselves and just not do it. The time has passed and it's best to move on. But, that's a small subset of girls...It's just a guess, but I would assume the individual pictured here may like how she looks. AND if you go out in public at all, there are literally millions of REAL women who aren't as attractive as Rafaela. She hapens to be in great physical condition. What's wrong with that?

[russtafa]

big feet, big hands, big dicks yes please

[Nowhere]

Look, I think there's some validity to the OP's argument, especially with the extreme late-coming transitioners, who have had testosterone have some extreme effects to the body, but the bottom line is effort and self-recognition. If a girl has the build of a linebacker and is as hairy as an ape, she had better drop a ton of weight and get it all lasered off. And, ALL girls should be on hormones immediately and indefinitely. The effects cannot be underestimated.

Let's give the example shown here:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/011_863_113.jpg

The problem with this girl is that she's taken ZERO hormones, as her body is clearly a slim man's one, and she's made no effort to drop musculature by cutting out the weights and dieting. That's the problem you have right here. I'm quite sure that if she didn't give as much effort as a beginning drag queen, she'd look a hell of a lot more like a woman.

It's not like it's 1950. The technology is out there. Use it.

The only rare exceptions i'd say the original argument is valid if a lot of time has passed and the body is so masculized by testosterone that no amount of surgery could change it (and age doesn't do that to everyone). There is a point when something is completely ridiculous and actually damaging to the community by reinforcing the stereotype of the 'bearded lady' that some of these late transitioners have to think of the interests of others over themselves and just not do it. The time has passed and it's best to move on. But, that's a small subset of girls...It's just a guess, but I would assume the individual pictured here may like how she looks. AND if you go out in public at all, there are literally millions of REAL women who aren't as attractive as Rafaela. She hapens to be in great physical condition. What's wrong with that?

Great physical condition FOR A MAN.

Just have Brad Pitt arch his back and you've got the same thing.

And, I really don't think even 1% of GGs in the world would want to look like that, no.

I'm not saying you're gay, but I really don't think you'd have an unpleasant time being with a guy...

[hungtung1]

Look, I think there's some validity to the OP's argument, especially with the extreme late-coming transitioners, who have had testosterone have some extreme effects to the body, but the bottom line is effort and self-recognition. If a girl has the build of a linebacker and is as hairy as an ape, she had better drop a ton of weight and get it all lasered off. And, ALL girls should be on hormones immediately and indefinitely. The effects cannot be underestimated.

Let's give the example shown here:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/011_863_113.jpg

The problem with this girl is that she's taken ZERO hormones, as her body is clearly a slim man's one, and she's made no effort to drop musculature by cutting out the weights and dieting. That's the problem you have right here. I'm quite sure that if she didn't give as much effort as a beginning drag queen, she'd look a hell of a lot more like a woman.

It's not like it's 1950. The technology is out there. Use it.

The only rare exceptions i'd say the original argument is valid if a lot of time has passed and the body is so masculized by testosterone that no amount of surgery could change it (and age doesn't do that to everyone). There is a point when something is completely ridiculous and actually damaging to the community by reinforcing the stereotype of the 'bearded lady' that some of these late transitioners have to think of the interests of others over themselves and just not do it. The time has passed and it's best to move on. But, that's a small subset of girls...It's just a guess, but I would assume the individual pictured here may like how she looks. AND if you go out in public at all, there are literally millions of REAL women who aren't as attractive as Rafaela. She hapens to be in great physical condition. What's wrong with that?

Great physical condition FOR A MAN.

Just have Brad Pitt arch his back and you've got the same thing.

And, I really don't think even 1% of GGs in the world would want to look like that, no.

I'm not saying you're gay, but I really don't think you'd have an unpleasant time being with a guy...Believe me, I would never mistake Brad Pitt for Rafaela. I see no resemblance at all. And the fact that I simply appreciate the level of fitness Rafaela shows makes me gay??? Ya, sure, right Pal. I can't imagine that there would be any gays on a webforum called Hung Angels. You're here looking for straight women, right? I also like the way you decide to speak for 99% of the GG's on the planet. Grandiose man. Really grandiose.

[SF_Julie]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Because we want to be ourselves, even if we are the ugliest women in town, but women nevertheless!

[Dinand]

Rupaul was 6'7 tall looks good to me
Rupaul doesn't count, he's a drag, not a tgirl.

[Dinand]

Lets face it, as long as guys see tgirls mostly in a sexual way the only thing that will matter is the fact if they're passable or not.

[blckhaze]

Lets face it, as long as guys see tgirls mostly in a sexual way the only thing that will matter is the fact if they're passable or not.

beg to differ. as long as they see them sexually, all theyll see is the cock. Passability matters more to the ladies than it does to most guys.

[silkencock]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Luckily for me, along with the decision to transition, I also cultivated a profound and very usefull ability to NOT GIVE A FUCK what anyone else thinks about the why's & wherefore's of my transition. Seriously, who the fuck are you that I should take your opinion into account?

Some of the most beautiful gurls I have ever met are MTF, and thier beauty was not displayed so much in thier facial or body structure, but in thier courage to be who they are, and not what you or anyone else thinks they should be. They had tremendous beauty and strength in character , and that radiated from thier linebacker shoulders to thier hipless hips and thier big ass feet.

Live and let live. Or choke on it, I don't care which.

[SarahG]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Luckily for me, along with the decision to transition, I also cultivated a profound and very usefull ability to NOT GIVE A FUCK what anyone else thinks about the why's & wherefore's of my transition. Seriously, who the fuck are you that I should take your opinion into account?

Some of the most beautiful gurls I have ever met are MTF, and thier beauty was not displayed so much in thier facial or body structure, but in thier courage to be who they are, and not what you or anyone else thinks they should be. They had tremendous beauty and strength in character , and that radiated from thier linebacker shoulders to thier hipless hips and thier big ass feet.

Live and let live. Or choke on it, I don't care which.

IDK, I am pretty on the fence here as I can see a very convincing argument for passing since we DO live in a world where people's views & opinions make a difference.

Job, housing, adoption discrimination in most countries is perfectly legal when dealing with trans citizens. In most states in the US an employer could flat out tell you they're firing you because "they think you're a freak" and you won't have shit for recourse.

But with discrimination protections that pretty much happens anyway, they just have to be more polite about it on the surface. :roll: There is ample evidence out there that, despite 30+ yrs of reforms, GGs still aren't paid equally in American employment, even if it is illegal, and if they can sue over discriminatory practices.

The way this relates is if you pass you're less likely to become a target of such bigotry.... since it is pretty clear you can't rely on discrimination law that doesn't exist, and you can't rely on it when it does it exist.

To play devil's advocate against myself: if only the girls that can't pass are out, it is going to proliferate the stereotypes that "all tgirls look like nhl players in dresses." Perception makes a huge difference in the general public, and if all they ever see are the "deviant" stereotypes, then its gonna be hard to get public acceptance. How many pride parades have gotten publicity, not because of the "normal" people who are like everyone else in society in the day to day lives, but because of fist fights, and exhibitionism?

I know in this one town my mom lived in briefly the only time the gay pride parade, the small unorganized one that was there, got into the local news there- was the one year a couple of the lumberjack lesbians got in a fist fight with the christian fundies there to protest. So what could have been an proactive approach to educate the general public was, in practice, a spectacle perpetuating flawed, skewed stereotypes.... and we wonder why reform is so hard to get in this country. How can we be taken seriously, in terms of health care, marriage law, and other issues if so much of the publicity is this type of bad publicity?

We're the minority of the population, if we keep distancing the general public with a "we don't give a fuck what you think" attitude,* all it is going to do is convince them we're freaks that shouldn't get the things we ask for.



*Or worse, a violent, militant attitude. Anyone remember the thread about the fight that broke out in a McDonalds roughly 6-9 months ago?

[absolutecarla]

I don't want to be passable for the public. I wanna be passable for myself. I want to have have bigger hips, I want pointy chin, I want smooth skin, I want breasts and I acted on it. I took hormones when I was 15. I saved all my penny from my highschool allowance and I did that because I want to look at the mirror and like what I see. I like it when clothes drape on my body. I like the curves that I see. It's hard to explain but I feel a sense of fulfillment when I see myself on the mirror. I like how I could just to to the female restroom without anyone clocking me. I feel free!! I also don't believe in such thing as a standard height, weight and feet size. I think it's a matter of proportion. Women in general have wider hips than men and is proportional to the shoulders.

[Periscope]

Hi all, first post.

I have to agree with the original poster somewhat, and with Melissa. I especially agree with Melissa on the question of choice. If you go look up autogynophelia you will find what I am 100% sure I identify with. If you agree with the information out there on the subject (and can believe what you read on the internet), many people who have transitioned can identify with that to varying degrees.

I don't feel like a "woman in a man's body". That is supposed to be how transgendered MTFs feel, but I don't. I don't feel like I am a woman, just that I want to be a woman. Since I can't honestly say I feel like a woman, that is probably the main reason I've never seen a therapist about it. I've been pretty close to starting to transition, but never have even though I've felt like I wanted to for 10 years.

Since I went away to college (which is a great opportunity to start a transition) the primary reason I haven't started is that I have serious doubts that I would pass, long term. I have broad shoulders and big feet. The biggest thing is that I have a big head and rather masculine facial features. I actually had a friend in college who is transgendered and her results kinda convinced me that starting with very masculine features won't get me the results I want. She does not really pass, and she's way more petite than I could ever have hoped to be. But she also had that "I don't care what anybody thinks" attitude. She could take the negative attention. I couldn't.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life getting clocked every time I go out. I would only want to do it if I could have a "normal" life on the other side. A lot of people think they're being all heroic and badass to say that they don't care what other people think, but that isn't a realistic approach to life. I think to transition and not be passable would be giving up too much, so I haven't done it. One thing that is important to me is my career, I don't want to change it. I know a TS won't be accepted in my industry any time soon. Hell, its tough for GG's. Stealth would be the only option, and my body just doesn't seem like it can be made passable. My friend from college is a waitress with a math degree from Virginia Tech.

So, yeah. I think its not that unrealistic to think someone can choose to not transition. I have. I just hope I don't have a midlife crisis and transition at 45 years old and ruin a family (I don't have one yet). By then I'd never be able to pass.

[Thatiger23]

ok heres the thing if your not dating them then why the hell do you care? if the girl want to transition then thats her decision......not to mention there are ways to look more feminine......

[yodajazz]

...

The way this relates is if you pass you're less likely to become a target of such bigotry.... since it is pretty clear you can't rely on discrimination law that doesn't exist, and you can't rely on it when it does it exist.

To play devil's advocate against myself: if only the girls that can't pass are out, it is going to proliferate the stereotypes that "all tgirls look like nhl players in dresses." Perception makes a huge difference in the general public, and if all they ever see are the "deviant" stereotypes, then its gonna be hard to get public acceptance. How many pride parades have gotten publicity, not because of the "normal" people who are like everyone else in society in the day to day lives, but because of fist fights, and exhibitionism?

I know in this one town my mom lived in briefly the only time the gay pride parade, the small unorganized one that was there, got into the local news there- was the one year a couple of the lumberjack lesbians got in a fist fight with the christian fundies there to protest. So what could have been an proactive approach to educate the general public was, in practice, a spectacle perpetuating flawed, skewed stereotypes.... and we wonder why reform is so hard to get in this country. How can we be taken seriously, in terms of health care, marriage law, and other issues if so much of the publicity is this type of bad publicity?

We're the minority of the population, if we keep distancing the general public with a "we don't give a fuck what you think" attitude,* all it is going to do is convince them we're freaks that shouldn't get the things we ask for.



*Or worse, a violent, militant attitude. Anyone remember the thread about the fight that broke out in a McDonalds roughly 6-9 months ago?

You are right about the ‘bad publicity’ in my book. That’s part of the nature of media, especially television news to go for crime and sensationalism. But that’s why most groups of people have media advocacy persons, to put out positive publicity and seek forums like public radio, and talk shows, to portray themselves in a positive light. That is not always enough to counter the negative stream, but it does help some people to see a clearer pictures.

The trans community does have a problem in that some of the most successful members of the community do not help the cause as they blend in with the greater straight society. That is their choice for happiness. But that is why I admire those who are out, and seek to uplift the image of the trans community. I consider them to be very courageous.

Props to everyone who has posted in this thread. I think it is an important discussion.

[SarahG]

Hi all, first post.

I have to agree with the original poster somewhat, and with Melissa. I especially agree with Melissa on the question of choice. If you go look up autogynophelia you will find what I am 100% sure I identify with. If you agree with the information out there on the subject (and can believe what you read on the internet), many people who have transitioned can identify with that to varying degrees.

Interesting, it isn't every day that someone goes flat out and says they are AG because that one is so stigmatized due to Bailey's writings et al.

I do have a few comments, but they are not intended to come off abrasive (I am adding this disclaimer because of the way AG threads have been known to take a nose dive).



I don't feel like a "woman in a man's body". That is supposed to be how transgendered MTFs feel, but I don't.

That is because AG's aren't TS.

This isn't a bad thing, its just the way things are defined clinically/medically.

From a strict by the book medical point of view sure, GID (TS) is defined as requiring this "my birth sex doesn't and never did match me" feeling.

This means that, by the books, if you don't believe you're in the wrong physical sex at birth, you can't meet the medical definition of GID.

There are, obviously other conditions that fall under the "transgender" term. It would not be hard to find some tv's who do body modification (hrt, surgeries, you name it), so you can't strictly go by who has or has not transitioned physically in defining these medical phrases. By the books, TV and GID are nothing alike, GID is an identity disorder, TV is (right or wrong this is how it is defined in the medical texts) as a fetish.

One of the nagging parts of this forum that I always take issue with is this idea that "you're a CD until you go FT and then you BECOME ts" No, sorry, but from a medical point of view whether you are TS or not is strictly based on how your situation compares to the GID medical definitions. In theory someone who has GID has GID, rather they transition or not.

Obviously if we are going to talk about rather or not this is a choice there is a lot that can be said, for any number of the transgender sub categories. Keeping this limited to GID for this post, there is ample modern & historical evidence that people who are truly GID, will try to transition to whatever extreme they can physically reach, regardless their situation. In ancient societies people who had GID tried their own sterilization techniques, and examples of this can be found cross-culturally. In modern societies, if transitioning is out of reach, someone who truly meets the legal definitions are very likely to try to transition even when put in positions that lend themselves against it (like prisons where hrt cannot be obtained).

One of the ways of defining rather someone who is GID has to transition (read: not a choice) to function, since we are talking about choice, is this issue of how functional they are in society if they don't transition. There are people who meet the definition easily, and who are entirely dysfunctional in society without transitioning- and will either harm themselves trying to transition, societal isolate themselves, or kill themselves if living in any situation falling short from transitioning... even if they stand no chance in hell of passing.

Under such a situation, because of their mental state of existence, it is not a choice. Just as someone who has certain variants of OCD may be a pack rat and keep every piece of garbage they've ever owned in their house, used plastic bags, newspapers, twisty ties and all. It would be a choice if they have an OCD type personality without having the full blown personality disorder.

I really can't speak to why some middle aged transitioners are able to "put it off" 30 years then impulsively transition ASAP as if one more year will be the end of their existance. Is it more of a choice for them? Or are they just in such deep denial that it takes them that long to realize "who the fuck am i kidding with this act?"

There are gay guys who have been married, with kids as "a beard", but that doesn't change that they're gay. I suppose these middle aged transitioners could be falling under a similar situation BUT this is just speculation on my part.

[Tika]

I really can't speak to why some middle aged transitioners are able to "put it off" 30 years then impulsively transition ASAP as if one more year will be the end of their existance. Is it more of a choice for them? Or are they just in such deep denial that it takes them that long to realize "who the fuck am i kidding with this act?"

Some of us "middle-aged transitioners" don't transition because of fear, because of lack of knowledge or lack of access to resources, because of pride and not wanting to become whores in order to fund transition, because of societal prejudices, because of not wanting to lose family, friends, job and/or housing, because of the misconception that unless you look gorgeous don't bother transitioning... need I go on?

If transsexuals were treated like any other person, and not like meat, sex objects or freaks, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to transition. I transitioned in my 30s because I was scared and also wanted to be the "perfect woman". A friend convinced me that I'd never be perfect, just like few, if any GG's were "perfect". After having that conversation with her over lunch, I decided to "go full-time" the next day. I've never looked back.

When you're isolated from other transsexuals and have no contact with a peer group, when the internet shows itself to be a bastion of hate, judgement and ignorance, how the hell do you muster the courage to transition? Sometimes it takes years. Would I love to go back in time and transition in my late teens? Maybe. I don't know how my life would have turned out. I am who I am now because of the choices I've made.

It's always a choice for us. People delude themselves into thinking they have no choice, but that's just silly. People choose to take their own lives, choose to kill, choose to excel despite adversity, choose to save someone at the expense of their own life. We always have a choice. It might be the choice to live in misery or denial, but it's still a choice. I don't believe for a second that there's some sort of biological imperative to transition. It's a high-level, intellectual choice that we all make once we realize who/what we really are.

[Tomfurbs]

Erm.. as I undertand it, TS's transition because they need to. Not because they want to give you a boner.

[Deepdarkfucker]

Vanessa - you are just fucking hot and ALL woman in my eyes

[silkencock]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Luckily for me, along with the decision to transition, I also cultivated a profound and very usefull ability to NOT GIVE A FUCK what anyone else thinks about the why's & wherefore's of my transition. Seriously, who the fuck are you that I should take your opinion into account?

Some of the most beautiful gurls I have ever met are MTF, and thier beauty was not displayed so much in thier facial or body structure, but in thier courage to be who they are, and not what you or anyone else thinks they should be. They had tremendous beauty and strength in character , and that radiated from thier linebacker shoulders to thier hipless hips and thier big ass feet.

Live and let live. Or choke on it, I don't care which.

IDK, I am pretty on the fence here as I can see a very convincing argument for passing since we DO live in a world where people's views & opinions make a difference.

Job, housing, adoption discrimination in most countries is perfectly legal when dealing with trans citizens. In most states in the US an employer could flat out tell you they're firing you because "they think you're a freak" and you won't have shit for recourse.

But with discrimination protections that pretty much happens anyway, they just have to be more polite about it on the surface. :roll: There is ample evidence out there that, despite 30+ yrs of reforms, GGs still aren't paid equally in American employment, even if it is illegal, and if they can sue over discriminatory practices.

The way this relates is if you pass you're less likely to become a target of such bigotry.... since it is pretty clear you can't rely on discrimination law that doesn't exist, and you can't rely on it when it does it exist.

To play devil's advocate against myself: if only the girls that can't pass are out, it is going to proliferate the stereotypes that "all tgirls look like nhl players in dresses." Perception makes a huge difference in the general public, and if all they ever see are the "deviant" stereotypes, then its gonna be hard to get public acceptance. How many pride parades have gotten publicity, not because of the "normal" people who are like everyone else in society in the day to day lives, but because of fist fights, and exhibitionism?

I know in this one town my mom lived in briefly the only time the gay pride parade, the small unorganized one that was there, got into the local news there- was the one year a couple of the lumberjack lesbians got in a fist fight with the christian fundies there to protest. So what could have been an proactive approach to educate the general public was, in practice, a spectacle perpetuating flawed, skewed stereotypes.... and we wonder why reform is so hard to get in this country. How can we be taken seriously, in terms of health care, marriage law, and other issues if so much of the publicity is this type of bad publicity?

We're the minority of the population, if we keep distancing the general public with a "we don't give a fuck what you think" attitude,* all it is going to do is convince them we're freaks that shouldn't get the things we ask for.



*Or worse, a violent, militant attitude. Anyone remember the thread about the fight that broke out in a McDonalds roughly 6-9 months ago?

On a community - to - community level I completely agree with you, but I felt the original poster was expressing his thoughts on a much more person-to-person level. Of course, I would love to look as female as possible, and I strive to look and act female: I take great care to notice and mimic the mannerisms of those females in my life I feel are closest to representing the kind of woman I want to be. But in the end, reguardless of the amount of hormones I take, or surgeries I get, there will always be traces of the man I am trying to leave behind. I am ok with that: it is the burden of the trans person, and I fully accept it.

What I do not accept is the idea that, because my build is not that of a female, I should stay home and not present myself to the world as I see fit. On a community relations level, I would gladly take time to talk to someone skeptical of the motives or desires that lead me to transition. But on a personal relations level, a guy who comes up to me and says "Who do you think your fooling? You look like a linebacker in a dress!" --Well, as I said, that person can choke on it.

[meghanchavalier]

Well, this is one subject I must chime in on because I am a tall girl, 5'11 and there is nothing wrong with being tall. I have two sisters who are exactly the same height as I am. It's genetics, some people are born tall, some short. I'm not sure why we're even having this discussion. There has to come a time when people learn to accept people for who they are and who they choose to become. No one should judge anyone for becoming exactly who they want to become, it's not your place. Worry about your own life and stop being so concerned with what's happening in everyone elses. If more people would spend more time loving and accepting each other we wouldn't even be having such ridiculous discussions. Maybe next time we should talk about how people in wheelchairs aren't as good as people who can walk, or people that are deaf aren't as good as hearing people. These sort of discussions just encourage hatred. It makes no sense to me.

[SarahG]

What I do not accept is the idea that, because my build is not that of a female, I should stay home and not present myself to the world as I see fit.


And where did I say that? You're reading too much into my post, I don't beat around issues. If I were saying middle aged transitioners shouldn't transition or be seen in public I would have flat out gone out and said it. I am blunt, direct, and would make such a comment -if- that was what I was saying.

The fact of the matter is, "right or wrong", if all the general public sees are nonpassing middle aged transitioners, or trans people (ts, tv or anything else) getting in fist fights in cities, then that is going to be the lasting impression/stereotype they have for all trans people.

I am proposing NO solutions to rectify this, it is simply my observation on "how the world works"

Talking strictly theory, I am sure if more trans people appeared to the general public as normal, both in appearance and in behavior, it will with time make the general public's attitudes far more open, receptive, and tolerant.

That isn't going to happen when girls beat up clerks at mcdonalds with tire irons for being read however. It isn't going to happen if all they know about are middle aged tvs in hose jerking off, and it isn't going to happen if they see all chasers as cockbandits so addicted to cock as to go to the scottish games to "hit on all the guys in skirts"

My limited optimism on the subject is: younger transitioning is catching on, in the US it isn't that difficult to find girls who started in or before their early 20s. In some other nations it isnt hard to find girls now that are transitioning in or before puberty. If this trend continues across the board it COULD produce enough "normal every day girls who happen to be trans", without the lasting effects of T, without being forced into the sex industry to pay for their medical needs, and without assimilating into the lgb community for support that it just might win the general public over. Perhaps the -radical- lgb groups agree on this point, it would explain the few militant groups out there that go out of their way to oppose early transitioning. They know that early transitioners will be no more or less gay than GGs or GBs, and the role trans people have had in these groups over the last century has been so critical, so instrumental to their cause (even if we were SOR with ENDA) that it would not be in their best interest to lose it in favor of widespread assimilation, blending, stealth etc.

[silkencock]

What I do not accept is the idea that, because my build is not that of a female, I should stay home and not present myself to the world as I see fit.


And where did I say that? You're reading too much into my post, I don't beat around issues. If I were saying middle aged transitioners shouldn't transition or be seen in public I would have flat out gone out and said it. I am blunt, direct, and would make such a comment -if- that was what I was saying.

The fact of the matter is, "right or wrong", if all the general public sees are nonpassing middle aged transitioners, or trans people (ts, tv or anything else) getting in fist fights in cities, then that is going to be the lasting impression/stereotype they have for all trans people.

I am proposing NO solutions to rectify this, it is simply my observation on "how the world works"

Talking strictly theory, I am sure if more trans people appeared to the general public as normal, both in appearance and in behavior, it will with time make the general public's attitudes far more open, receptive, and tolerant.

That isn't going to happen when girls beat up clerks at mcdonalds with tire irons for being read however. It isn't going to happen if all they know about are middle aged tvs in hose jerking off, and it isn't going to happen if they see all chasers as cockbandits so addicted to cock as to go to the scottish games to "hit on all the guys in skirts"

My limited optimism on the subject is: younger transitioning is catching on, in the US it isn't that difficult to find girls who started in or before their early 20s. In some other nations it isnt hard to find girls now that are transitioning in or before puberty. If this trend continues across the board it COULD produce enough "normal every day girls who happen to be trans", without the lasting effects of T, without being forced into the sex industry to pay for their medical needs, and without assimilating into the lgb community for support that it just might win the general public over. Perhaps the -radical- lgb groups agree on this point, it would explain the few militant groups out there that go out of their way to oppose early transitioning. They know that early transitioners will be no more or less gay than GGs or GBs, and the role trans people have had in these groups over the last century has been so critical, so instrumental to their cause (even if we were SOR with ENDA) that it would not be in their best interest to lose it in favor of widespread assimilation, blending, stealth etc.

You didn't say that at all. I was not referring to your posts. I was refering to the OP's post. That is the gist of his post, right? If you can't pass as female, you shouldn't be in public?

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[emmatgirl]

i totally got ignored :(

[saifan]

i totally got ignored :(

Next time type in all caps, babe.

[GinX]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler

You might as well say that if you are a 6'6"man, weigh 260 pounds and are built like a brick outhouse, then you are obviously meant to be a heterosexual and anything else is just some "choice" you are making.

Newsflash: people who are gay, lesbian AND transgendered are what they are BECAUSE they are compelled to be. Outward physical traits mean nearly nothing when compared to a person's mental, emotional and inward genetic imperative.

Bullshit? I call bullshit on this post.

[GinX]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler

You might as well say that if you are a 6'6"man, weigh 260 pounds and are built like a brick outhouse, then you are obviously meant to be a heterosexual and anything else is just some "choice" you are making.

Newsflash: people who are gay, lesbian AND transgendered are what they are BECAUSE they are compelled to be. Outward physical traits mean nearly nothing when compared to a person's mental, emotional and inward genetic imperative.

Bullshit? I call bullshit on this post.

[GinX]

Sorry about the double post.

[Legend]

Melissa thinks she is the perfect example of a m2f transsexual and therefore can tell others if they should or should not transition or not.Newsflash she isn't in any kind of way and even if she were that doesn't give her a right to tell someone that they shouldn't follow their destiny.

[melissacarter]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

[jessica wabbit]

You sly fox you!

You knew that you was going to get an uproar of replies
didn't you?

I actually was waiting for someone to ask a question like this.

Now I can see all the different point of views.

this is great thanks!

[SarahG]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

When a subordinate has sex with a superior at work, it is unethical and can be legally taken to be discrimination or harassment even if the subordinate showed no signs of disliking the scenario, showed no signs of not wanting to go with it, or without being outright told by the superior their job required it.

Why is this? Because to the law, the subordinate has no way of knowing what the ramifications are for refusing to go along with it.

When someone is hungry they physically decide when and how and where to eat, people have been known to consciencely chose to starve to death (hunger strikes etc), but no law in western society is going to say eating is a choice.

The same logic applies to transitioning. Sure, there are some people who chose never to go on hrt (why? no idea myself) but it is a weak argument at best to say its all just a choice. I tend to think that the only reason why GID got into the psyc works like the DSM to begin with was because of the patients who seemingly kept trying to transition, as if a pathological compulsion.

However, I fully agree with you (if this is what you're saying) that whether it is a choice or not, destiny or not, the individual patient obviously has some extent of control in the path they take so to speak. Their decisions dictate (to a point) what happens, how it happens, when it happens.... if ever.

[peggygee]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

Melissa, I have read your responses and other people's upthread.

I do not feel that it was your intent to denigrate anyone, and I am
saddened by all the ad hominem attacks you were met with.

I believe that what you were espousing was the doctrine of free will
versus predetermination.

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents
exercise control over their actions and decisions.

Having said that, I was on another forum, and the question was asked
"what would you do if you couldn't transition". Could you be content
to merely be a gay male.

The overwhelming majority of women stated that remaining in their birth
gender was not an option.

Many stated that they most likely would be dead if they had to stay in
their birth genders.

Thus I would concur with you that transitioning does indeed involve free
will, yet there are other elements that impact that decision.

[melissacarter]

I fully agree with you (if this is what you're saying) that whether it is a choice or not, destiny or not, the individual patient obviously has some extent of control in the path they take so to speak. Their decisions dictate (to a point) what happens, how it happens, when it happens.... if ever.

Well thank God someone on this board finally gets the message. Thank you Sarah. It's about taking responsibility and not hiding behind the argument that we have no conscious say in the matter. That society is to blame and not us for our predicament. What a load of crap.

Meanwhile, look deeper into this thread and you will see all the assholes who misread my comments and took them personally, then began their attacks.

[melissacarter]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

Melissa, I have read your responses and other people's upthread.

I do not feel that it was your intent to denigrate anyone, and I am
saddened by all the ad hominem attacks you were met with.

I believe that what you were espousing was the doctrine of free will
versus predetermination.

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents
exercise control over their actions and decisions.

Having said that, I was on another forum, and the question was asked
"what would you do if you couldn't transition". Could you be content
to merely be a gay male.

The overwhelming majority of women stated that remaining in their birth
gender was not an option.

Many stated that they most likely would be dead if they had to stay in
their birth genders.

Thus I would concur with you that transitioning does indeed involve free
will, yet there are other elements that impact that decision.

Thanks Peg, for your support. The attacks might be hurtful if they a) had a point to make and b) understood the argument and then responded accordingly. Their own insecurities and rancor shine much brighter than any misguided point they tried to make. And yes, the subject is free will, thank you for seeing that.

[southerncalisurfer]

I am unclear as to how I view gender dysphoria, I took a bunch of psych classes in school - if you cut the fat it is thinking that you are something that you are not - no different to if someone approached me and said they are a dragon, they are clearly not a dragon but felt that they were born that way. Please see exhibit one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Garrison's_Fancy_New_Vagina
They get it, until I see genetic proof that gender dysphoria is a real thing not an escape capsule, suck it up and deal with the hand life has dealt you. If you want to transition, great, but view it as an entirely cosmetic procedure.

[SarahG]

I am unclear as to how I view gender dysphoria, I took a bunch of psych classes in school - if you cut the fat it is thinking that you are something that you are not - no different to if someone approached me and said they are a dragon, they are clearly not a dragon but felt that they were born that way. Please see exhibit one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Garrison's_Fancy_New_Vagina
They get it, until I see genetic proof that gender dysphoria is a real thing not an escape capsule, suck it up and deal with the hand life has dealt you. If you want to transition, great, but view it as an entirely cosmetic procedure.

I found that south park episode interesting given that SRS (well, the version of it that was used in the 50s) was developed by the nazis in WW2 to try to "cure homosexuals" by forcefully changing their sex. The really crazy ones associated with that thought that with enough science it would lead to turning gay guys into fertile straight women (whole thing was a complete failure). There is enough evidence out there that you can't just forcefully change someone's gender.

However, there is some evidence (not a lot, but some) that gid is a developmental, biologically triggered condition. What do you consider genetic proof, DNA? I kinda doubt dna has anything to do with it.

The hormone imbalance theory where fetuses get their brains "wired wrong" sounds promising but not a lot of work has been done in researching it because no one cares about trans issues or trans science except people in the community. It is easy enough to use animals to show that bombarding developing animals with the opposite sex hormone will cause developmental consequences. I.e. for a dog whether they squat or lift a leg in pissing is defined by instinct but hormones triggers which of the two the dog will end up using, if you've raised dogs you'd know how the male ones squat like the girls until their hormone levels start to spike. There are differences between this and a human, mainly since the psyc and sociology fields believe there is no such thing as an instinct in humans. But if you have even an education in these fields as electives you should already know that.

There have been a few studies, over in Europe indicating that MtFs have the same brains as GGs structurally speaking (if you're a psyc major you'll know all about how male and female brains differ so I'll spare those details). But again I wouldn't call those tiny, obscure studies to be a smoking gun because so lil has been done on that subject.

The reason why transitioning is the only close to being successful, recongitzed treatment for GID is because there is so much evidence out there (presently or historically) that people with the condition are more functional in society transitioned than not- which says a lot given the discriminatory practices out there. It isn't hard to find cases where people could not transition, or made choices prohibiting their transition, and killed themselves as a result. In the end all that the psy world cares about is this issue of quality of life & societal function. If transitioning helps with either (or both) then it is kinda a no brainer to use it as a treatment option. Really I fail to see where the big deal is here...

[melissacarter]

I am unclear as to how I view gender dysphoria, I took a bunch of psych classes in school - if you cut the fat it is thinking that you are something that you are not - no different to if someone approached me and said they are a dragon, they are clearly not a dragon but felt that they were born that way. Please see exhibit one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Garrison's_Fancy_New_Vagina
They get it, until I see genetic proof that gender dysphoria is a real thing not an escape capsule, suck it up and deal with the hand life has dealt you. If you want to transition, great, but view it as an entirely cosmetic procedure.

With all due respect, that makes no sense at all. Personally, I am repulsed by the terms dysphoria and disorder (GID) because it implies that there is something wrong, or unbalanced, with changing genders. Fact is, it's as good as anything else one chooses to do with their lives.

The issue here was never how one perceives oneself, we all seem to generally agree that within each TS resides the spirit and self-identity as a woman. So to say transition is merely cosmetic is wrong because attached to the enhancements/augmentations/development are the feelings. We are simply arriving where we feel.

The pivotal argument here is where does personal will fit into all of this and does society play a role in thwarting/supporting our efforts? A peripheral argument is at what point does passability and authenticity define what society will or won't accept? And a further peripheral argument, which was entirely distorted and miscomprehended, is how does one feel personally about passability and at what point could it become a determining factor in one's individual decision?

We all agree we are doing this for ourselves, and it is ludicrous, given the effort, pain, expense and emotional burden for anyone to do this for any other other reason. We don't do it because it turns us on, we don't do it because it turns others on. It is self-expression of self-identity.

[southerncalisurfer]

Points taken.

Sarah - I dabbled in psych but am bio now. What you said is noted, but does emphasise the point that we just do not know!

Melissa- As tough as it sounds, yes something went wrong when someone born male thinks that they are female, there is no debate there, something went wrong, and you cannot debate that. How we treat it is up to us. (And I am not even opening the nature.nurture debate right now)

so here is the kicker:

Should we put our efforts towards:

1. Making current TS people more accepted

2. Looking into our genetics and making sure kids are born M or F (In retrospect, would you have not wanted that that you parents could have made that in womb?)

Uh oh, eugenics :(

[SarahG]

Personally, I am repulsed by the terms dysphoria and disorder (GID) because it implies that there is something wrong, or unbalanced, with changing genders. Fact is, it's as good as anything else one chooses to do with their lives.

Actually it makes a lot of sense really. There are so many people who repeatedly try to transition as if it were an uncontrollable compulsion, and that is enough in my eyes to see it as something worthy of placing in the textbooks. But just because it is in the medical world doesn't mean it's a bad thing... if being in the text books was the only gauge in dictating if a characteristic is good or bad, then we'd still be practicing eugenics (on general terms- duh transitioning is sterilizing and so eugenics really doesn't apply to GID specifics).

Medical, especially psychological science is all about societal function and quality of life. If a treatment (regardless what it is, or what the condition is) improves a patient's state of existence in terms of these two issues then yes, the treatment is a medical necessity under most uses of the term. Body dysphoria isn't exclusive to GID patients after all, so we're not the only ones where this conversation is relevant.

Traditionally "elective" procedures like implants are not seen by the medical world, or even politicians as being elective when it is being used for situations where quality of life plays a large role. What is elective plastic surgery to one person is medically necessary "reconstructive surgery" for someone else, even if it is the exact same procedure. Implants are typically thought of as elective, and yet few people will use the "elective" term in place of "reconstructive" if we're talking about a GG who has lost a breast due to cancer.

Very few people define medical necessary as "a procedure required for the patient to survive"- look at the long list of shit insurance companies will pay for that isn't going to cause someone to die if going without it (prescription strength athletes foot ointment for instance, fixing ingrown toenails, or Viagra).

The only reason why GID is such a big deal, that people get so heated about is because of the religious factions that try to make it look like it is the end of civilization. When the fundies weren't really mobilized on the issue it was NOT A BIG ISSUE AT ALL. Go back and look at some of the pre1960 media coverage GID has gotten (incl GID cases before the medical conditions' names were even coined). Even then it was a sensationalized topic to talk about, I can recall reading a year or so back an article from one of those popular science magazines from the 30s that was talking about an "experimental sex change" in Britain and posed questions on whether the patient was really male or female now. But that was the scope of the article, there was none of this "this is taboo/wrong/self destructive behavior" or any of that other crap, and likewise until GID became a spotlight issue for the religious types, postop marriage to guys wasn't even a big deal in the United States, certainly not to the point where it is today where these factions want the definition of marriage changed to be "one XX girl and one XY man"

Yet today, you can (as in its possible) fully transition outside of SRS, using the medical protocols, and not have to deal with gatekeepers, letters and all those other hoops.... going and getting implants, ffs, and all these other barely reversible procedures to the point of not being able to pass as a guy- and no one bats an eye (yes this is an oversimplification). Yet as soon as anything comes close to touching the genitals (orchi, srs, etc) oh look out- time for all these letters, irrelevant therapy sessions, and a poorly defined, failed concept of RLE. :roll:



We all agree we are doing this for ourselves, and it is ludicrous, given the effort, pain, expense and emotional burden for anyone to do this for any other other reason. We don't do it because it turns us on, we don't do it because it turns others on.

What about the people who claim that they ARE doing it for sexual fetish reasons? There was one person in this thread who said they were AG.

They could have been lying I suppose, but they aren't the only one in this board to have made that claim.

For GID patients I agree with you, it isn't out of some kind of sexual interest, but IF AG really exists, then there is a chance for AG patients, transitioning is for other reasons.

[southerncalisurfer]

I love you

[Solitary Brother]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Its not really about being able to pass its about living with your gender and feeling comfortable.
These girls dont feel comfortable being men.
So even when they transition if they dont pass 100 percent its ok because they feel MORE comfortable than before.

[southerncalisurfer]

Nice post kiss ass

Anyhow, I think that the main problem that is avoided on this site is why so-called straight guys are into TS's?

I read a few papers about this but they all seem to boil down to repressed homosexual tendencies - at least the girls here are "man" enough to face their demons.

The other group is those on the outskirts of sexuality - regular sex gets boring so they are always looking for the next level.

Where do you lie?

[melissacarter]

But just because it is in the medical world doesn't mean it's a bad thing...

That is my point. Look at transitioning from afar, not in psychological or medical terms but in philosophical terms. Think in terms of personal purpose and a search for meaning. Then ask the question we must all ask ourselves: what am I going to do with my life? In this context, a male transitioning to female is as good as any other decision reached. In fact, any decision made, as long as it does not hurt others or yourself, and has some element of purpose is a good decision. In this way transitioning is as valid as being an astronaut or a doctor. Equal in purpose, equal in reward, equal in personal fullfillment.

[southerncalisurfer]

Evolution would disagree with you, Melissa, and evolution is a beautiful thing

[melissacarter]

Points taken.

Melissa- As tough as it sounds, yes something went wrong when someone born male thinks that they are female, there is no debate there, something went wrong, and you cannot debate that.(

Apparently the point is not taken. Let me reiterate: there is nothing wrong with a natural born male feeling the need to live as a female. That's where you get hung up. We are not feeling the need to live as a squirrell or a giraffe, but you somehow see it like that. You somehow are assigning limitations and rules to the way people live and the decisions they make. And if they fall outside your personal parameters they are mentally ill or just imbalanced. Loosen up dem rules, dude. 8)

[southerncalisurfer]

My personal parameters? Or our personal parameters? Who is setting those boundaries? (for the record, I am on your team, just feel like being d. advocate today)

[SarahG]

In this way transitioning is as valid as being an astronaut or a doctor. Equal in purpose, equal in reward, equal in personal fullfillment.

But its not the same because people generally don't have severe quality of life issues or societal dysfunction if they fail to become a doctor, or an astronaut, etc.

[yodajazz]

But just because it is in the medical world doesn't mean it's a bad thing...

That is my point. Look at transitioning from afar, not in psychological or medical terms but in philosophical terms. Think in terms of personal purpose and a search for meaning. Then ask the question we must all ask ourselves: what am I going to do with my life? In this context, a male transitioning to female is as good as any other decision reached. In fact, any decision made, as long as it does not hurt others or yourself, and has some element of purpose is a good decision. In this way transitioning is as valid as being an astronaut or a doctor. Equal in purpose, equal in reward, equal in personal fullfillment.

Great post! I believe people put too much emphasis on personal expression, which does little harm to others, and not enough on things which greatly harm other people.



In this way transitioning is as valid as being an astronaut or a doctor. Equal in purpose, equal in reward, equal in personal fullfillment.

But its not the same because people generally don't have severe quality of life issues or societal dysfunction if they fail to become a doctor, or an astronaut, etc.

Actually many people who do not acheive thier dreams have problems with issues like achoholism and other self destructive behaviors.

[GinX]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

If the point you are trying to make is about pre-destination versus free will, then I'd say I agree with you. I don't see any 'force of destiny' or 'hand of fate' taking an interest in causing a person to be physically born one gender and yet live mentally, emotionally and spiritually as another.

However, I see nothing wrong with someone claiming to have been born in the 'wrong body'. When taken from a purely genetic perspective, I can well agree with such a statement.

[GinX]

Nice post kiss ass

Anyhow, I think that the main problem that is avoided on this site is why so-called straight guys are into TS's?

I read a few papers about this but they all seem to boil down to repressed homosexual tendencies - at least the girls here are "man" enough to face their demons.

The other group is those on the outskirts of sexuality - regular sex gets boring so they are always looking for the next level.

Where do you lie?

Where do I lie? I lie on the side where we don't make generalizing blanket statements.

[SarahG]

However, I see nothing wrong with someone claiming to have been born in the 'wrong body'. When taken from a purely genetic perspective, I can well agree with such a statement.

Which is why I said people dictate their own paths in the what, when and how based on their decisions to a point.

That point is influenced by probability. By simply bad luck some will need FFS at 15 to pass. By bad luck someone could get falsely convicted and sent to jail in Wisconsin where HRT is illegal for trans inmates.

IF these developmental theories prove to be the "cause" for transsexuality, then without a doubt people are born trans. The question is what happens after that point in transitioning.

In essence the "path" (transiting) was assigned by probability at birth, what forks are taken is up to the results of their life decisions (some of it being unintended consequences, some being pure bad luck, and whole host of exterior influences).

I hope that analogy works, its the best I could think of.

[Legend]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.


Thats an excuse for people like you who have transitioned late so yeah i guess you're right somewhat it was your choice to transition late.I see your point now and where you get that attitude from.

[melissacarter]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.


Thats an excuse for people like you who have transitioned late so yeah i guess you're right somewhat it was your choice to transition late.I see your point now and where you get that attitude from.

So glad you see my point, after all people like me, we transition late, and that's where I find my attitude and my excuse. Thanks, I was nothing before you straightened me out.

[Shadycat]

Being transgendered is that our mentality and emotional state is that of a woman. Our inside. It kills me how people talk about the "right" height" or right body frame, or right shoe size. I remember a short Mexican tgirl who I thought was my friend telling me, only do "drag" at night, and never get breasts, because I was too big to pass as a girl. Now I am 6ft tall, and as another "girl" right here on HA pointed out, I wear a size 11 shoe. Thus making me really tall for a latina woman, with big hands and big feet. Did that stop me?? NO! I love my height, and I do hate my shoe size, yet I still managed to amass a shoe collection of beautiful shoes. Wo are you to tell someone that they are wrong for making the outside match whats inside?? My decision to transition to the point I am today was for ME and how I wanted to look and dress. SHAME on you for being so IGNORANT!! That goes for both males and other transexuals who think because they are a certain height or weight or bone structure to pick and choose who should and who should not transition. I see these alleged shorter girls get spooked just as fast, or faster than I do. I'm happy with the decisions I made in my life because I made them for ME!! And not bad huh????
Well said....BTW yes not bad at all.=d

[Merkurie]

I found this thread and I just have to add one thng. Remember it was those non passing girls and boys that opened the door for all of us in ths community. It takes sheer guts to be out and not be able to pass as a member of the mainstream in this world.
Peace

[BritneyBoykins]

:roll:

[russtafa]

wow some guys are just so judgemental i bet they must all look like brad pit

[wombat33]

Part of what encouraged me to go farther was being the right size and proportions. It was critical to look "real". The idea of being clocked everywhere I go would have made every outing a fiasco. And I won't have that. I'm too full of myself.


AND YOU HAVE DONE IT TO PERFECTION!

[tommymageeshemales2]

Wow - webbed hand??

The Marilyn Monroe tat looks like she's a mermaid!!

[anonymous89]

Being transgendered is that our mentality and emotional state is that of a woman. Our inside. It kills me how people talk about the "right" height" or right body frame, or right shoe size. I remember a short Mexican tgirl who I thought was my friend telling me, only do "drag" at night, and never get breasts, because I was too big to pass as a girl. Now I am 6ft tall, and as another "girl" right here on HA pointed out, I wear a size 11 shoe. Thus making me really tall for a latina woman, with big hands and big feet. Did that stop me?? NO! I love my height, and I do hate my shoe size, yet I still managed to amass a shoe collection of beautiful shoes. Wo are you to tell someone that they are wrong for making the outside match whats inside?? My decision to transition to the point I am today was for ME and how I wanted to look and dress. SHAME on you for being so IGNORANT!! That goes for both males and other transexuals who think because they are a certain height or weight or bone structure to pick and choose who should and who should not transition. I see these alleged shorter girls get spooked just as fast, or faster than I do. I'm happy with the decisions I made in my life because I made them for ME!! And not bad huh???? youre black dont lie! and your way too huge to be a girl youre clocked everyday till you die hahahahahah!

[anonymous89]

:roll: britney youre very pretty but most of these other trannies look way horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TsVanessa69]

Being transgendered is that our mentality and emotional state is that of a woman. Our inside. It kills me how people talk about the "right" height" or right body frame, or right shoe size. I remember a short Mexican tgirl who I thought was my friend telling me, only do "drag" at night, and never get breasts, because I was too big to pass as a girl. Now I am 6ft tall, and as another "girl" right here on HA pointed out, I wear a size 11 shoe. Thus making me really tall for a latina woman, with big hands and big feet. Did that stop me?? NO! I love my height, and I do hate my shoe size, yet I still managed to amass a shoe collection of beautiful shoes. Wo are you to tell someone that they are wrong for making the outside match whats inside?? My decision to transition to the point I am today was for ME and how I wanted to look and dress. SHAME on you for being so IGNORANT!! That goes for both males and other transexuals who think because they are a certain height or weight or bone structure to pick and choose who should and who should not transition. I see these alleged shorter girls get spooked just as fast, or faster than I do. I'm happy with the decisions I made in my life because I made them for ME!! And not bad huh???? youre black dont lie! and your way too huge to be a girl youre clocked everyday till you die hahahahahah!

[TsJANIRA]

People tend to forget the fact that Being a transsexual is a process in it's self.. That is why they call it "TRANSITION ",,,you transition to achieve to be the woman you want be, you aspire to create a image of what you want to look like and with that being said, we dont come out as the beauties you see before you, sure some of us had some advantages that other girls did not, but all in all it is still a process of creating & loving the woman you want to see when you look in your mirror.



Whom ever said that "TALL" tgirls are not passaable or un beautiful is a total crock of shit!!!!!!


I myself standing at 511- 6'0 , 145Lbs , have a small back and thin arms & frame for my stature . Tall is beautiful !!!! , and face it the clothes hang so much better on a tall frame apose to a short one. Girls have always mentioned my height and made fun just couse their average height was considered to be passable, .........RIDICULOUS!!!!!..... I love my thin , tall leggy body,, and I dont hear the gentlemen complaining either......(WINK) :wink:



Here is too all the girls 5'9 and over!!!!!!!!!!


Let these Termites know !!!!!!...

[blacktgirls]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitleri agree that what you do and who you have sex with is a choice....i myself prefer medium height TS girls who are stuck up with broad shoulders and the narrow hips and flat ass of a young asian man.

[eclipsemint]

Mmmm, Maria Sharapova, ... 6 foot 2 inches ... if we were dancing I could rest my head on her breasts, but if we were lying in bed together side-by-side, we would be eye to eye, and she has such beautiful eyes.

I would love to spend every day massaging her injured right shoulder and afterwards seeing if I could improve her serve grunt.

Such a beautiful woman.

I am such a sick puppy.

[karlacox]

so if a woman is born

1) handicapped by a male chromosome; and
2) an over sized chassis,

then she should just fake it through life as a man because people will just never believe she's woman?

if it was all about passing, then yeah, maybe that's right. BUT it's not all about passing and looking good. it's about living one's life with integrity.

"well said"

[Lion]

First of all, I love tall women and I love tall trannys. The taller the hotter!
I think you have to see each case individually. Sometimes a totally "feminized" TS who went thru years of transition isn't really appealing and sometimes a TV who has even some muscles looks hot.
The world isn' black and white, it consists of millions of colors!

Example: I think she looks hot on these pics...

[sdman]

I think we as a community worry too much about passing.

Less about being happy!

isnt passsing being happy?

[sdman]

Believe me, I would never mistake Brad Pitt for Rafaela. I see no resemblance at all. And the fact that I simply appreciate the level of fitness Rafaela shows makes me gay??? Ya, sure, right Pal. I can't imagine that there would be any gays on a webforum called Hung Angels. You're here looking for straight women, right? I also like the way you decide to speak for 99% of the GG's on the planet. Grandiose man. Really grandiose.


Rafaelas cocks a lot bigger than brad pits. lol

[LibertyHarkness]

what about looking at it from this angle ... what about men wanting to be men,, now if your a male and proud to be a male if you dont look like this ,, your pretty fucked right as basically you are not masculine looking so you will never pass in public as a good looking man, an attractive man, a desired man, a man people want to be around etc ..

what should all the men do with themselves that dont look as good as this ?

:) just putting it out there you know,, how many of you men on this board look as good as this man ?

:) x

[Jericho]

:) just putting it out there you know,, how many of you men on this board look as good as this man ?

:) x


Most of us...In our own heads! :shrug
:lol:

[LibertyHarkness]

hehe you get my point though eh xx

[musclelover]

Into muscle women and am a bit submissive so isnt it natural to be attracted to a transexual woman with muscles. I wish there were more of them around to tell you the truth but they make me come some fast. I guess I am confused mostly because muscular women are hard to come by and somehow I feel like a transexual would disarm me with confusion. I dont know what I am trying to say but I know what I want to see more pics and numbers of muscular transexual goddesses.

[Nikka]

stupid tranny talk I hate it, and stuoid questions as well as the OP

[Amy Gray]

Honestly, being short kind of sucks. I'm 5'1" and I need a stepstool to get dishes off the top shelf, can't reach the break and gas on some cars, and having to crane your neck to look up at people gets annoying. I had to teach myself to sew because all the pants that fit me had legs that were a good inch or two too long. Frankly, I'd love to be a couple inches taller. :(

Oh, And the most annoying part about being short is weight. Girls my height who look thin are 100-105 lbs maybe 110 I'm I used to be 140 and I looked heavy. I had to drop to 120 just to look decent. There just isn't as much room to spread the weight over.

[EvaCassini]

care for a few of mine? im 5'9"...i dont mind my height at all...but i am willing to help out if need be :)

[Amy Gray]

care for a few of mine? im 5'9"...i dont mind my height at all...but i am willing to help out if need be :)

Lol, how about we split the difference. 5'5" sound good to you? I'm probably boob-shoulder height on you right now. :p

[BellaBellucci]

Rupaul was 6'7 tall looks good to me :)

Fuck RuPaul.

That is all. :whistle:

~BB~

[bat1]

Tall is sexy

people are who they are let live

[MacShreach]

I must admit I like tall girls, always have. (I do not mean RuPaul.)

[Dino Velvet]

Honestly, being short kind of sucks. I'm 5'1" and I need a stepstool to get dishes off the top shelf

5'1'' is absolutely precious. I'll get those dishes for you.

[tsadriana]

Taller ,shorter ,fat slim no matter which category as long as your happy with your look and progres its all counts ....Looks come from the inside boys...If a girl its good inside she is good outside .

[robertlouis]

Oh dear God, which son of a bitch resurrected this thread?

[danthepoetman]

Honestly, being short kind of sucks. I'm 5'1" and I need a stepstool to get dishes off the top shelf, can't reach the break and gas on some cars, and having to crane your neck to look up at people gets annoying. I had to teach myself to sew because all the pants that fit me had legs that were a good inch or two too long. Frankly, I'd love to be a couple inches taller. :(

Oh, And the most annoying part about being short is weight. Girls my height who look thin are 100-105 lbs maybe 110 I'm I used to be 140 and I looked heavy. I had to drop to 120 just to look decent. There just isn't as much room to spread the weight over.
Amy, you are as adorable as girls come! Mini is lovely! <3

[nysprod]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

You've been lurking here for like 6 years with 160 posts and this is the crap you come up with?

Fuck you and fuck your negative shit...

[robertlouis]

You've been lurking here for like 6 years with 160 posts and this is the crap you come up with?

Fuck you and fuck your negative shit...

Don't blame him. It was more than five years ago, after all. The guy you want is the one who dug the damn thread up earlier today.

[BBaggins06]

Fuck RuPaul.

That is all. :whistle:

~BB~

Is that like on your bucket list?

[VictoriaVeil]

Tall is sexy

people are who they are let live"

Werd.

For the record I'm 5'9 If I wasn't I would have never done runway.. Also Its kinda fun to squeeze a man between my thighs and smother him while in my PVC boots. Its a benefit to being tall. More reciprocal force.


:salad

[robertlouis]

Honestly, being short kind of sucks. I'm 5'1" and I need a stepstool to get dishes off the top shelf, can't reach the break and gas on some cars, and having to crane your neck to look up at people gets annoying. I had to teach myself to sew because all the pants that fit me had legs that were a good inch or two too long. Frankly, I'd love to be a couple inches taller. :(

Oh, And the most annoying part about being short is weight. Girls my height who look thin are 100-105 lbs maybe 110 I'm I used to be 140 and I looked heavy. I had to drop to 120 just to look decent. There just isn't as much room to spread the weight over.

I like petite. I like redhead. Hello, Amy!!! :fuckin:

[VictoriaVeil]

I like petite. I like redhead. Hello, Amy!!! :fuckin:

youse just a slut fer redheads lmao!

[robertlouis]

youse just a slut fer redheads lmao!




Not completely, VV. And where did youse learn to speak Glaswegian?

[VictoriaVeil]

Prollese sum bah..

http://www.propbay.com/attachments/original/2101d1324306005-raven-bar-shot-glass-indiana_jones_raiders_lost_ark-2.jpg

[robertlouis]

Prollese sum bah..



Aye, richt enough hen. Mebbes it wiz in the Sarrie Heid at Brigton Cross....

Rough as a berr's arse in there.

[tranlove]

That's a pretty stupid question. Some look masculine, no shit they were born male, so guess what? They are women in the wrong body, a male body. Where did you think the cock came from?

[danthepoetman]

The more of a woman there is, the more there is to love...

[finultimo]

Tall is sexy

people are who they are let live

agree

[Amy Gray]

The more of a woman there is, the more there is to love...

I just tell people I'm fun sized.

Besides, I can actually fit inside a suitcase. You have no idea how much I save on airfare!

[danthepoetman]

I just tell people I'm fun sized.

Besides, I can actually fit inside a suitcase. You have no idea how much I save on airfare!
Each size has its own advantages. My girlfriend is pretty much your size, Amy. We guys have lots of fun indeed with lovely mini girls! Believe me!

[VictoriaVeil]

Aye, richt enough hen. Mebbes it wiz in the Sarrie Heid at Brigton Cross....

Rough as a berr's arse in there.

Ernt a berr tou ruff fer a lass lik me.

http://thegoodjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/12883675626691.jpg

http://diaryofaporngirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC04186.jpg

[robertlouis]

Ernt a berr tou ruff fer a lass lik me.

http://thegoodjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/12883675626691.jpg

http://diaryofaporngirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC04186.jpg

You're good, Victoria. That "lik" shows a certain depth of knowledge.

Hiv yiz ivver been tae Glesca then?


First time I went to the older parts of Boston I felt like I was in Sauchiehall Street.

[VictoriaVeil]

You're good, Victoria. That "lik" shows a certain depth of knowledge.

Hiv yiz ivver been tae Glesca then?

First time I went to the older parts of Boston I felt like I was in Sauchiehall Street.

Not yet, Yuz offrin?

[danthepoetman]

Not yet, Yuz offrin?
You Scotsmen have all the luck, Robert Louis... :)

[robertlouis]

Not yet, Yuz offrin?

Luv tae, hen, bit ahm urny in Glesca ony mair. :(

One has moved to Cambridge, don't you know, what. :dancing:

[robertlouis]

You Scotsmen have all the luck, Robert Louis... :)



Being born Scottish? Of course.

[Cecil Rhodes]

I like SPINNERS

[lifeisfiction]

what about looking at it from this angle ... what about men wanting to be men,, now if your a male and proud to be a male if you dont look like this ,, your pretty fucked right as basically you are not masculine looking so you will never pass in public as a good looking man, an attractive man, a desired man, a man people want to be around etc ..

what should all the men do with themselves that dont look as good as this ?

:) just putting it out there you know,, how many of you men on this board look as good as this man ?

:) x

Money and fame fixes all those problems.

[amberskyi]

Tall (6'2)..thicker than a snicker and cuter than your sister

[danthepoetman]

You're so lovely, Amber. And indeed: 6' 2" and not an eight of an inch of masculinity on that lovely person! Just an all feminine body to love! Eros must have been looking over your cradle! ;)

[Prospero]

You are, Amber, a stunning girl

[Amy Gray]

You are, Amber, a stunning girl

And a great personality to boot! She's one of the happiest people I've met.

[danthepoetman]

...and that baby face, that smile are just irrisistible!

[MacShreach]

Tall (6'2)..thicker than a snicker and cuter than your sister
Oh you are much much much cuter than my sister, believe me!

[eded]

masculine shemales are exciting

[sockratees]

tall women are hot. ;)

[Skye]

Hey everyone.

I'm ~212cm tall, with pretty broad shoulders. Everyday for me isn't an uphill battle as far as looks go. I find that I pass without issue - whether I'm wearing makeup or not, whether I've taken the time to do my hair or not. I'm not skinny, either, but I'm exercising and losing weight, so all in due time.

Also, it's not that transgendered people "don't have a choice," but more along the lines that not transitioning leads to a life of regret, and probably a lack of happiness. For a lot of trans, it's not important for them to pass to other people, but to embrace who they are on the inside. For me, I need to look a certain way, because I want my body to project who I am - who I feel I am on the inside.

I was also pretty masculine before hormones. I've attached some photos. I know a lot of trans don't show what they looked like before hormones, but I keep these photos around as a reminder of how far I've come. The photo of me in a tank top is from march 2015 and the pink hoody is from may 2015.

[musclelover]

who is this angel????



First of all, I love tall women and I love tall trannys. The taller the hotter!
I think you have to see each case individually. Sometimes a totally "feminized" TS who went thru years of transition isn't really appealing and sometimes a TV who has even some muscles looks hot.
The world isn' black and white, it consists of millions of colors!

Example: I think she looks hot on these pics...

[SimpleFlorida]

I would imagine girls transition because that's who they feel they are on the inside, and I would guess there is probably a great deal of satisfaction that comes with being able to express yourself as the person you are on the inside. I don't think masculine looks would change the fact that a girl deserves to be on the outside who she feels she is on the inside