Shame and Remorse and Me and You

[whatsupwithat]

This morning, I was listening to a woman, a lesbian, who recently came out of the closet. She talked about her struggle with her sexuality over the years, the attempt to deny it, to push it away…and the shame and remorse she would wake up with after having sexual encounters with women. I think a lot of people with alternative (I hate that word) sexualities go through these feelings at some point in their lives. Some when they are young, others when they are old.

Anyways, I got to thinking about my own experiences with shame and remorse. At an early age, when I first realized my sexuality, my attraction to trans women, I was at a complete loss. There was no internet. There were no books. There was no place for the guys in the community to gather and share stories and support. But, mixed with my pubescent and raging hormones, my attraction was overpowering. I couldn’t deny it. Not to say I didn’t try to. I went “straight”. Enjoyable, but not fully. I tried “gay”. Never worked at all for me. But what was interesting to me, as I look back at my own life, was that I never felt shame or remorse about my straight or gay experiences/experiments. But what I did feel shame about was my true self, my true sexuality. It tore at me incessantly back then.

It’s been years since I felt that shame and remorse. Years. But listening to this woman this morning, all of that came rushing back to me and I thought about all of us here. Some of us have taken steps to be out and proud of who we are. Some are in relationships and dating trans women but are still living with a buried shame. Some visit escorts and feel nothing. And some are living deep, deep within the confines of closets made by their own hand. There are many of us here. We’re all different.

My reason for posting this… I would love to hear your experiences with shame and remorse in relation to your sexuality. I would love to hear about your struggles with you are…and where you are. And to those who might say they never felt shame or remorse…I can say with 100% certainty that none of us woke up one day and all was well with our sexuality or desires…none of us…no matter what we might tell ourselves.

Much peace. ☺

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I've never been with (hmmmmmm how would you describe it) I guess a M2M (lol). I (and if I offend anyone, sorry) find it repulsive to be with a guy sexually, I hate it for instance when I click on those thumbnail avi links like shegods and they direct me to another site which slips in one or 2 men on men sex clips. That shit makes me sick to my stomach.

As far as transsexuals go I have ALWAYS considered a M2F a woman. I've joked on here in the past with certain dames, calling them dudes to get an angry sexual frustrated rise out of them, but that's it. Nicole Dupree is nodding her head right now, she's on the stripper pole filming for a GorillaHaze™ production as I type this.

I will never feel guilty for having sex with a M2F, I see you all as women. It's odd Eric because I've never had a moment of inner guilt when it comes to that, yet if I'm in a predominately gay club and some dude looks at me too long or tries to buy me a drink i'll get repulsed and wanna go throw up (I'm exaggerating on the vomiting, but you get the idea).

[hwbs]

early on i cant say that i didn't think it was wrong at the time...i had only a few experiences...just some random hookups ... to me it was just nsa sex and that was it ...i was lucky enough to meet Allanah Starr years back and she changed my perspectives on everything...she had taken me under her wing and i will always be thankful for that ...to have someone to talk to about everything you are going through without being judged ...Without meeting her and her friendship i am pretty sure i would not be on here today !!!!

[whatsupwithat]

IIt's odd Eric because I've never had a moment of inner guilt when it comes to that, yet if I'm in a predominately gay club and some dude looks at me too long or tries to buy me a drink i'll get repulsed and wanna go throw up (I'm exaggerating on the vomiting, but you get the idea).

i think the shame that i had when i was younger came from the lack of support and information that communities like this and others offer us. i was so very young and with no information or support or guidance from "those that came before me", i felt a bit alienated, odd, different. there was literature in the library about transsexuals, but not about men like myself. it didn't last long as i spread my wings farther, but i did feel shame at first about being different from everyone else around me. again, i think a lot of younger (and sometimes older) people go through this phase of trying to understand where they fit in and how....especially when their sexuality is not considered the norm in society's eyes.

[ottorocket]

I'll step up. Basically...I am your average Joe. The whole TG thing kinda crept up on me like a slow fever, and late in my years. I was a late bloomer...small guy in high school and didn't get many dates (ok none) and finally met my first girlfriend GG, at the age of 18. This turned into a long time relationship, that felt good, i really am attracted to a certain type of female, and thought she was the one. Well, what i found out was she wasn't and i spent along time in a monogomous relationship, that turned into the same ol' same ol'...and i grew bored.

About the same time, i began on the internet (the cause of all of this..heh) and stumbled on a pic of a lovely trans lady with the same looks as my ex..but something different. It was exciting..it wasn't turning me off..and i began infrequently turning to the internet for more images of ladies like her. (Can't remember who it was though) but she was extremely passably hot.

I questioned myself after pleaseing myself...of course, like what have i gotten into here? So after my ex, i dated around, a few kewl chicks, a stripper, a cougar...etc and was back at school scratching my head when i met this "other" girl.

She was an assistant to one of the design assistant. Asian...petite...demure and very forward to me. Something in the back of my head told me...my radar wasn't picking up GG...but TG. I had snooped around, listening to gossip at parties and heard about her, some of the guys saying "is she" etc... and decided to say WTF and ask her out, as she seemed receptive.

Well...i did, we went out...and I confirmed it after a few dates and some deep conversations, and the usual strait male questions i had. Personally, i've never been with a guy...never wanted too, still don't...and don't have those desires. I figured out (well a little help with my therapist over the years) that I was slightly socially repressed in my upbringing (i was sick alot as a child and stayed home) that prevented me having the type of relationships most young people had to develop your typical scenario of girl meets boy...goes to prom...goes to college...etc. I didnt make the most of my younger years like alot of guys do.

In any event, i was somewhat shackled down to my fears and became very introverted, as many TG women can be, but which put me on the same playing field emotionally to connect on that level with some of them. Not saying all tg women are like me...but the ones i've met only. There is a shared, smaller communty here that i feel comfortable with and i can appreciate the journey and difficulties of transwomen go through.

So meeting that one girl changed my perspective (which was feeling like swimming upstream) from simple curiousity and confusion, to bedrock solid feeling that secured me in my sexuality, of being able to love GG women for what they bring, but opening up the options to TG women for their unique sense of being.

I really havent felt shameful...My one and only relationship with a TS girl was away from my family and close friends, but those i had at school knew i was dating her, and i never hung me head in shame. At first i had trepidation i might get labeled as "that guy"...but it never happened.

Since then, i've had childhood friends come out as gay, and we've all accepted them as the same...and my life path has changed that my old friends aren't a part of my daily busy schedule anymore. But personally my love of GG hasn't gone away, and it shares my desires with TG women in new ways. Who knows where this path takes me, whom i connect with along the way...Me? I just want to be happy and enjoy this life without the next person bringing me down.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I remember going to these clubs locally pre-Allanah events and how guys basically stood around by themselves with the exception of Megabody and his crew. Which is when I got the 1st idea that guys can be friends with other guys in this community. It wasn't until I met Mega that I even spoke to a dude at those clubs, everyone was so uptight and guys had that "I'm not GAY and if you approach me I'm gonna knock you out, look" yet they would get grabbed by some chick and be on their knees in some corner half an hour later (hehe).

[flabbybody]

LOL jw
before I met mega I thought there was a law on the books: never make eye contact with another male at Edleweiss/Now Bar
after mega, those places actually became fun. and meeting guys like nyce, J, partridge, (and you) who were smart and successful I started to feel fairly normal

[BeardedOne]

I can't say for sure that I've ever felt shame and remorse outside of individual circumstances (See the definition of There are no ugly people at 2:00 AM), but I clearly understand the descriptions of each scenario. I remember feeling rather shameful and embarrassed by my first sexual encounter when I was thirteen, but I think it was more from the fact that I'd broken mother's first rule and accepted a ride from a stranger and not much at all to do with the fact that said stranger fondled and blew me at the end of the ride.

I have had some recent reflections into self that might be considered feelings of shame, but not of remorse. I don't have much problem with going out on the town with a gurl (Some here on HA have seen the public 'me' and can voice their own opinions if they like), but I do have some difficulty just being out in public due to personal me-versus-the-universe issues. This might be seen as some shame or embarrassment on the part of my companions.

I would have no shame in introducing or being seen with one of the gurls (Please excuse my generalization of TS/TG/Transwomen as 'gurls', but I am lazy and my fingers are tired) to friends and family, but I have a limited focus of what those are. My closer friends tend to be a more intelligent, adventurous, pansexual sort that wouldn't raise an eye at what gender I chose to romp with (Or how many in a night) while my family, while very positive people (ie: I don't dislike them in the slightest), are so distant that at my eldest sister's funeral we all had to introduce ourselves (Had I not been standing beside my mother most of the night, they wouldn't have had a clue who I was). As best as I know them (And some have expressed some phobia/animosity towards 'alternative lifestyles'), I believe that, whether or not they approved of my choice of partner, they would at least be polite and so I would have no qualms about introducing them.

My only true remorse in all of this is that I am not more outgoing or quite as entertaining as I might have been in my younger days.

[TrueBeauty TS]

First, I give props to all the guys for even responding. I don't know if I believe all that 100%, but whatever.

Second, you will notice that out of, how many people on HA, 5000+, only about 5 guys responded so far.


So maybe that says something in itself?

:?:

[BeardedOne]

after mega, those places actually became fun. and meeting guys like nyce, J, partridge, (and you) who were smart and successful I started to feel fairly normal

Note that he stops short at 'fairly'. :lol:

:wink:

[BeardedOne]

Second, you will notice that out of, how many people on HA, 5000+, only about 5 guys responded so far.

It's still early, and I predict a total of ten by Sunday. ;)

I bet I could name the next five. :D

[TSCURIOUS]

Hmm... I'm mid forties, never, ever have been attracted to men in the least. In my business, I have a lot of gay friends - no problem - love them all - go to dinner in public, hang out - no problem - just not my thing. I get pissed when someone makes a snear or glance because I feel for them. However, about a year ago, I was surfing through shemp or some similar sight, I clicked on shemale movies by mistake. I was originally repulsed yet curious to the point where I started watching some of the clips. WOW! I was instantly hooked, fried and incredibly turned on. Tissues please!! So, I started going to a couple of Sunny's parties - I was like a kid in a candy store except I am usually one of the guys in the corner, glass a scotch that leaves by midnight. because of work.
Anyhow, this is all still new to me. I love reading here what people are writing. And as I plan on getting married soon, I'm going to have to shed the "TSCURIOUS" part of my life and have some fun. Not sure if I could be a part of it while married. Do I have any shame or remorse? Not a bit - BUT this part of my life is my private part.
I know I'm a noob, but just .02 about me.
Probably a million like me here.

[slinky]

Everyone is too worried about being labeled "gay". You see it in the million or so threads about "am I gay" or "is liking TS gay" or w/e.

Personally, I'll have sex with whomever I find sexually attractive. Would I have sex with a guy? Yes, if I found him sexually attractive. But in 30 years of being sexually active, I've never found a guy who I found sexually attractive (not even in a movie, in print, etc.) does that make me "gay" or "bi"? guess what? I really don't care. The labels are for haters. Why should I give a shit about a label, unless I want to identify with some group for some reason other than sexual attractiveness? (like, politically). And guess what again? I already do that (Gay Rights, etc.). So what's the fucking difference?

[Tomfurbs]

I 'came out' about this at University, when I lived in 'Halls' with someone who was transitioning. Most amazing person I've ever met.

When I told my friends back home about my attraction to her, they all dropped me like a stone. Seriously, my myspace friend list nosedived.
It was ok, I got to hang out with her cool/crazy friends instead.

I told my parents in a fit of pique, and they don't really know how to process it, but they are so pissed off about other aspects of my lifestyle, I just think they don't think I was serious when I told them. They are Evangelicals, so go figure.

I don't feel any shame about myself BUT, I don't think I could 'come out' to the people at my work, because I know it would mean instant ostracisation (sp?), and the Label 'pervert' (which is probably an accurate one lol).

It is this aspect that I am ashamed about. Maybe one day I will be in a place where I don't care what co-workers think, but I am not there now.

Great thread.

[whatsupwithat]

first of all...yeah! it's cool to see guys responding to this thread. very cool. :)

thank you, jwbl, hwbs, bearded, flabby, curious, danny, tom!

what i find most interesting is that many so far seem so at ease with their sexuality...never having a problem with it at any point in their lives off of ha.

this is far from a random sampling, or perhaps it is just that, but translated to what i see on the outside or the real world it doesn't line up. granted, we all may just be fabulous and evolved men...oooh, i kinda like that...let's stick with that! :P

but seriously, maybe shame isn't the right word or it's being subjectively defined due to our own experiences with the word. perhaps i should have framed it better.

this is from wikipedia:

"Shame is the consciousness or awareness of dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation. Therapist John Bradshaw calls shame the "emotion that lets us know we are finite""

with that in mind, it makes me wonder. for example...tscurious...thank you for being so honest...and this is by no means meant to disparage you...but isn't what you're doing by keeping this part of your life "private" a form of shame? can you be open about it with your fiancee? your friends? your family? don't you, in essence, have a conscious awareness of the disgrace or condemnation you might suffer if your private life were to be made public?

i'm sorry if i'm being out of line here.

[whatsupwithat]

Everyone is too worried about being labeled "gay". You see it in the million or so threads about "am I gay" or "is liking TS gay" or w/e.

Personally, I'll have sex with whomever I find sexually attractive. Would I have sex with a guy? Yes, if I found him sexually attractive. But in 30 years of being sexually active, I've never found a guy who I found sexually attractive (not even in a movie, in print, etc.) does that make me "gay" or "bi"? guess what? I really don't care. The labels are for haters. Why should I give a shit about a label, unless I want to identify with some group for some reason other than sexual attractiveness? (like, politically). And guess what again? I already do that (Gay Rights, etc.). So what's the fucking difference?

hey danny...how's it going? good to see you again.

i didn't mean shame in being labeled so much as shame in what our desires and attractions are. i mean, i think all of us felt a little bit of shame in those early puberty years when every little bump caused an instant erection...and those tissues we used to clean up with were flushed asap. you know what i mean? i think the journey of sexuality is wrought with obstacles that only disappear as we grow and accept that we cannot change who we are.

[whatsupwithat]

Great thread.

beautiful answer.

[BeardedOne]

The subject of coworkers comes to light:

Though a fair number of my coworkers have pretty much clued into the fact (If I haven't told them outright) that I have 'commercial' intimate encounters from time to time, it's never been made clear what the gender variants of said encounters have been.

<Thinking> Not sure if it's a 'shame' factor or if it's just the point that no one's ever asked or that it hasn't been an issue in any way. They generally know that I am open to all lifestyles (Whether they've assumed, or I've told them, that I might be dabbling in any or all of the above), and that TW ("The Wife", a title, not a relationship) is a bit of a gender outlaw in her own right.

My job is already firmly in the toilet as I type this. I really don't give a flying fart in space what they think about who/what I suck/blow.

[Tomfurbs]

Great thread.

beautiful answer.

Fanx! :)

[whatsupwithat]

My job is already firmly in the toilet as I type this. I really don't give a flying fart in space what they think about who/what I suck/blow.

hey, man, sorry to hear that. you going to be ok?

[BeardedOne]

My job is already firmly in the toilet as I type this. I really don't give a flying fart in space what they think about who/what I suck/blow.

hey, man, sorry to hear that. you going to be ok?

Eh.

I've been homeless and jobless before, just not at this age. :?

It's just a buncha revoltin' coicumstances. :roll:

I still owe you a PM/email. It'll come eventually. :)

[TSCURIOUS]

with that in mind, it makes me wonder. for example...tscurious...thank you for being so honest...and this is by no means meant to disparage you...but isn't what you're doing by keeping this part of your life "private" a form of shame? can you be open about it with your fiancee? your friends? your family? don't you, in essence, have a conscious awareness of the disgrace or condemnation you might suffer if your private life were to be made public?

i'm sorry if i'm being out of line here.[/quote]


Not out of line at all! We all have a potential "downside" of what may happen should we become more public about what turns us on in our private lives. My "downside" may be different and more devasting (for whatever reason) than anothers. And you're right - is it a bit of shame - yes, but I'm not in a position to lose what I've worked so hard for. I could tell a few folks - but I would naturally want them to keep a secret for me and don't want to put friends in that position.
Hope I'm making sense.

[pittsburghadmirer]

Believe me, I know shame and I know remorse. I remember I was 18 when I "stumbled" across pics of TG sex on the internet. At first, I was kinda shocked/disgusted/ etc. I knew that people had sex changes, but it was a shock seeing a beautiful woman with a cock. Soon after that, I was getting more and more curious.

I started looking up shemale sex on the net and such. This continued all through my college years. I never have looked at a guy sexually in all of my life. The thought of two guys having sex doesn't get me turned on to this day. But, in my early 20's, I thought that I must be bi b/c of my fascination/infatuation with TGs. Finally, in my early 20's, I built up enough confidence to look for TGs in my area (Pittsburgh). Granted, not the most glamourous city in the US, but I was surprised there was somewhat of a TG scene.

I saw the ads in all the backs of those free weekly magazines, but for some reason I didn't want an escort. I wanted to find a TG I could be friends with and eventually build a relationship with. I didn't think about the fact that at some point, if I found the right person, I'd have to come clean w/ family and friends. The first TG I met, through the internet, was a girl who was going to college in town. We chatted online, then on the phone, then eventually met in a gay-friendly bar in town. She was beautiful in person and 100% passable. Our relationship last several months. She was my first TG.

I remember driving home after our first sexual encounter, my first sexual experience with a TG. I had many mixed emotions. I thought for sure I was gay after doing the things I could. But, you know what? At the time, none of it disgusted me.

Through her and through sites like this, I found out that there are guys like me and that just b/c we like sex with a TG, doesn't make us totally gay. But still, going out w/ her in public, I was always looking over my shoulder to see if anyone looked at us, even though she was passable. Just a weird feeling.

Eventually, she moved back home and I have since lost contact with her. She helped me with my confidence and for the next two years after that, I dated two more TGs. The following two had their faults, for sure, but I gained confidence.

Now I am married to a GG for two years now. I truly married my best friend, but my infatuation with TGs still goes on. Looking back, I have no regrets and no more remorse. But, when this whole thing started for me, there were many regrets and questions.

I never came out to family, friends, or co-workers during my time dating TGs. Although, one of my close friends and his gf at the time ended up coming to a restauarant where me and a TG I was dating were dining. He didn't know and still doesn't know (to the best of my knowledge), but his gf did look at my date in a strange way. He never said anything to me, though.

The only thing I question now is that what if one of my relationships with a TG grew more and more serious, lasted more and more longer. I still somewhat think about that and what I would've done and how I would've approached "coming out" about her.

[BeardedOne]

*Sigh* My first intimate relations with a T-gurl were in PGH (Though I'd known some socially years before).

[slinky]

The subject of coworkers comes to light:

Though a fair number of my coworkers have pretty much clued into the fact (If I haven't told them outright) that I have 'commercial' intimate encounters from time to time, it's never been made clear what the gender variants of said encounters have been.

<Thinking> Not sure if it's a 'shame' factor or if it's just the point that no one's ever asked or that it hasn't been an issue in any way. They generally know that I am open to all lifestyles (Whether they've assumed, or I've told them, that I might be dabbling in any or all of the above), and that TW ("The Wife", a title, not a relationship) is a bit of a gender outlaw in her own right.

My job is already firmly in the toilet as I type this. I really don't give a flying fart in space what they think about who/what I suck/blow.

A year or two ago this girl shows up as a part timer in the office I work out of and instantly my "working girl" radar pings.

After she's been there for a while (6 months?) one day she just blurts out to me "Can I ask you a question? Are you some sort of tranny pimp or something?". I explain that I do a lot of adult stuff, yada, yada, yada, and ask her about herself and find out she a ProDomme. Just about everyone in the office I work out of (which has nothing to do with the internet or adult) knows I'm "in porn".

[slinky]

hey danny...how's it going? good to see you again.

i didn't mean shame in being labeled so much as shame in what our desires and attractions are. i mean, i think all of us felt a little bit of shame in those early puberty years when every little bump caused an instant erection...and those tissues we used to clean up with were flushed asap. you know what i mean? i think the journey of sexuality is wrought with obstacles that only disappear as we grow and accept that we cannot change who we are.

I think there's a line between "shame" and not wanting to be judged by people, or make uncomfortable people who you have to deal with on a daily basis because you know they have feelings about stuff. When I'm with my very religious Jewish friends, I don't talk about eating pork, but it's not because I'm ashamed I do it.

[mbf]

Nah, I feel like a total perv on here (and thats meaning somehting ;) ) - bc I never felt any shame regarding my sexuality, especially not during puberty.

[ottorocket]

Bump

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Started to type something, thought about it, not worth it, I'll discuss it in chat where it won't start a war in a good thread.................

[ottorocket]

The subject of coworkers comes to light:

Though a fair number of my coworkers have pretty much clued into the fact (If I haven't told them outright) that I have 'commercial' intimate encounters from time to time, it's never been made clear what the gender variants of said encounters have been.

<Thinking> Not sure if it's a 'shame' factor or if it's just the point that no one's ever asked or that it hasn't been an issue in any way. They generally know that I am open to all lifestyles (Whether they've assumed, or I've told them, that I might be dabbling in any or all of the above), and that TW ("The Wife", a title, not a relationship) is a bit of a gender outlaw in her own right.

My job is already firmly in the toilet as I type this. I really don't give a flying fart in space what they think about who/what I suck/blow.

A year or two ago this girl shows up as a part timer in the office I work out of and instantly my "working girl" radar pings.

After she's been there for a while (6 months?) one day she just blurts out to me "Can I ask you a question? Are you some sort of tranny pimp or something?". I explain that I do a lot of adult stuff, yada, yada, yada, and ask her about herself and find out she a ProDomme. Just about everyone in the office I work out of (which has nothing to do with the internet or adult) knows I'm "in porn".


Its your Porn "stache" that gives you away isnt it??