question about jail!!

[abblecore]

lets say we have a beautiful sexy t-girl (like my favorite one jenysis) and she commits a crime does she go to a mens prison where they are gonna have a party with her sexy ass or will she go to a womens prison?????

[NYCe]

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/transgender_issues_law,2.html

Despite the constitutional right against cruel and unusual punishment, transsexuals who are imprisoned have often been denied access to hormones, even if they are already taking them, and sex-reassignment surgery. However, in the last few years, several courts have recognized that hormone therapy can be a serious medical need for someone who is transsexual and required prison officials to allow for prescribed hormonal treatments.

Transsexual inmates also face a tremendous risk of physical and sexual violence from guards and other prisoners. In most instances, transsexuals who have not undergone genital surgery are housed with prisoners of their birth sex, which places male-to-female transsexuals, in particular, in grave danger of assault. Nevertheless, the Supreme Court has largely absolved prison authorities of responsibility for the protection of transsexuals who are incarcerated. In Farmer v. Brennan (1994), the justices ruled that prison officials are not liable for violence against a transsexual prisoner unless they have "actual subjective knowledge" that the transsexual inmate is at risk and deliberately failed to intervene

[Ts Laura]

from what a friend told me that worked at a private ran minimum security prison was that they did solitary confinement for the tgirls that came in, i think you had to be so far along or something, hormones/breast and so on but she only seen a few in there over the years and they were all out of the general male population

[fgbz99]

Interesting question.

A few days ago the thread relating to Sylvia Boots got some attention. She might be able to provide an answer.

Does anyone know how to contact her? Or even know where she is incarcerated. Apart from being a way to get an answer to this question maybe some of her fans and admirers might like to write in order to provide a bit of encouragement and support.

ps: I did do a bit of googling but no luck so far. Probably need her legal name and a knowledge of the California correctional system.

[NYCe]

Do a search here. There's a few posts with her legal name and case number, you could probably follow up from there.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

They go to MAN'S PRISON but Riker Island has a gay/transgender section. The T-GIRLS don't get the option to choose..but GAY men can go to GENERAL POP or GAY/TRANSGENDER section.

P.S. Alot of "Str8" guys go to the GAY SECTION too...I wonder why? LOL

[NYCe]

On Rikers isn't that section "Protected Custody?"

[d]

yeah.protected custody aka pc aka punk city where all the famous inmates, snitches, dirty cops n councilmembers and fags stay. usually the "girls" don't go in there because the CO's try and have sex with them. if they're smart they stay in gen pop and get themselves a big boyfriend who will protect them

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

No...There is a GAY-TRANSGENDER section. Only for GAY-TRANSGENDER people. The Str8 guys that go in the section have to say they are gay.

Trannies are NOT allowed in general pop. Only gay guys are.

[tsluver247]

My ass hurts just thinking about jail. Jail is not for everyone. :wink:

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LOL @ tsluver...Mine is getting wet thinking about it! :wink:

[Grimey]

I work at San Quentin and trust me I see a lot of TS come through there. For the most part they like to live in general population because they can get anythng they want from other inmates and sometimes C/O's, depending on how good they look. I've seen one of the girls from ShemaleYum at San Quentin a couple of times, what's up Senchi?. Thanks for the info man, good lookin out. Anyway, like I said they get anything they want, food, smokes, stamps, anything. But I have sen some that P.C. up, why I don't know because most of the time they got it made in there. Have I been tempted to mess around? I would be lying if I said that I didn't, but what stops me is thinking where else can I get a job, with a high school education and some college and make over 60,000 a year. I've had some ask me to step into the cell so I can fuck them or so they can suck me off. Trust me its hard to say no but so far I've been doing pretty good.

[brickcitybrother]

To answer the question directly. The go to a men's facility. They are not ENTITLED to protective custody. Worse, they are subject to all the problems/abuse that would fall any other inmate. The law is clear on this, because one inmate was able to have her case her by the US Supreme Court. She was placed in Gen. Pop. even though she was clearly female in apperance, breasts, hips, butt [silicone enhanced] and voiced concern about her safety.

The Court decided that putting her in Gen. Pop. was fine and NOT a violation of her rights. I think Grimey has an idea of what has to be done to survive on the inside. And I think the savvy girls do what they have to (not unlike the boys).

Brickcitybrother

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it."

[Vicki Richter]

I think as long as the girl was willing to put out, her only violence problems would come from other jealous girls or queenie gay guys. I doubt very seriously you'd have to worry about getting shanked from any of the men in there as long as you gave them what they needed. I am not saying it's a good thing. The San Quentin guy makes it sound not so bad. I knew two different guys in N Cali area who worked as prison guards and they said a lot of the same type of stuff. I guess as guards, you just keep walking if you see someone getting busy in a cell.

One also said that some inmates throw fecal matter on the guards and because of new regulations they couldn't do anything about it (like bust their asses). So from their perspective, I think guards in prison do a lot of live and let live. It doesn't make sense to piss off the inmates if they are doing a little R&R.

I am kinda wondering how the inmates are going to react to the no smoking rules in California. Sounds scary.

V

[abblecore]

well if i was in jail and i had this sexy tgirl as a cellmate i would be the happiest prisoner http://www.eros-toronto.com/file-images/to-kayla81-21.jpg

[flabbybody]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isin't Rikers just for short stays prior to arraignment? Once you get your 30 days, I thought they send you somewhere else.

[Hugh Jarrod]

I was in prison for a short time once, and don't remember ever seeing any tgurls or transgenders at all.

[hondarobot]

Hey, it's Jail Story Time!

I've never been in anything as horrible as prison, but I did get slapped with two days in jail once. Attempting To Avoid The State Highway Tax.

A buddy of mine had a car that died on him, and I needed new liscense plate tabs, so we took a razor blade and sliced them off his car and put them on mine. Naturally, I got pulled over and they ran a check on the tabs (we didn't do a very good job on the Cut And Paste). Surprise! That wins you a $175 fine and two days in jail.

The food sucked, but mostly it was hanging out with a bunch of guys in for DWI, and being forced to watch Pro Wrestling on TV. I read two books and slept a lot.

I've been a lot more law abiding since then, and that was many years ago.

No girls for me, either. What ya gonna do?

[oralmagic]

Hey, Fellas I got a story for and it true. Once I had to go to Prison I was young and crazy, but I had an opporunity to meet my first T-girl. Her Name was Candy Rodgeruiez. Well she put such a impression on me that I've been chasing T-girls ever since. She had such a pretty girlie clit about 7" curving straght up. When it was time for Community showers I coutn't wait to see her in action. I never got the chance to taste some of her goodies, boy do I wish I did. I even try looking her up once I got out but could never find her so I try to find those girls whom remind me of her. To get back the question In State prison the girlies are in general pop.

[estaban]

just my one penny thought here

isn't the idea not to ge in jail

jail sucks wihtout doubt
there is nothing about it worth discussion
other than to not wake up there

depending on the shade of neck rouge in the state
you have the pleasure of the visit
how sensitive is your host

there is now frequent flyer program worth the experience

peace

[oralmagic]

Please accept my apology, I was not glorifling going to prison or jail to meet T-girls. I was only responding to the question of T-girls in lock-up. I would take any experience for meeting these young ladies, I was relaying my story.

[happyjack]

First,Rikers or any city jail is up to one year,anything over that is state time,but sometimes due to overcrowing they will keep you in the city until theres room upstate.most of the girls arent dueing serious time so they're in the city jails..

[NYCe]

Discrimination claimed
Transgender speaks out against treatment in local jail
By Lolita Harper
Staff Writer

Monday, July 04, 2005 - RANCHO CUCAMONGA - Jackie Tates speaks softly like a lady and laughs demurely, although she finds little humorous about her current situation at West Valley Detention Center.

Tates lives her life in the outside world as a woman, although she was born a man. She wears her hair long and curly, with bangs framing her square face.

She has womanly breasts, wears women's clothing and makeup.

The 37-year-old is one of the Alternate Lifestyle Housing Inmates at West Valley Detention Center. Some in the unit consider her their advocate.

They claim sheriff's deputies and county jail service workers discriminate against them, treat them with disrespect and constantly "hurt their feelings. "

Sheriff's officials returned a phone call for comment, but were not available when a reporter called them back. But copies of written responses to formal grievances were obtained by The Sun. In them, officials deny any maltreatment and remind the inmates they are just that inmates. They are not on vacation; they are not a privileged class.

The conflicts at West Valley highlight a growing correctional challenge. How do jails deal with transgenders? Do they house them with men? With women?

Leo Carrol, a correctional expert and professor at the University of Rhode Island, said the issue has not been given much scrutiny on a national scale. But officials will have to deal with it at some point.

"Transgenders are more common, society is more open and acceptable and the correctional system will have to accommodate itself, " Carrol said. "Prisons are at least partly a reflection of society around them. "

Transgenders, whether male-to-female or female-to-male, are a growing class and many work among the masses, as successful lawyers, account managers, customer service representatives, etc. without a second glance from their peers.

But others are shunned by society and turn to drugs or prostitution, which often lead to incarceration, experts said.

Tates was involved with both drugs and prostitution before her stints in jails up and down California. The Chicago native said she came west with a boyfriend at the age of 18 and worked as an escort in San Francisco.

She was in and out of custody, ultimately landing in Sacramento County Jail, where in 2003 she filed a lawsuit against the county for egregious abuses while at the facility, including rape and discrimination.

Shortly after, Tates said she drank some potent jail-house brew and wrote a threatening letter to Gov. Gray Davis. She was sentenced to Patton State Hospital in San Bernardino, where in November she was arrested on suspicion of bringing narcotics into a prison facility after guards found drugs on one of her visitors.

She was transferred to West Valley where she remains during the judicial process for those charges.

She sees the world through dark brown, almond-shaped eyes. Just below the corner of her right eye she has either a scar or a beauty mark - it's hard to tell through the thick glass in the jail's visiting room.

But it is how fellow inmates and deputies see her that has driven her to file numerous grievances about West Valley Detention Center and attempt suicide. Tates is housed in the "Alternative Lifestyle " area of the jail with other gay or transsexual men, but that wasn't always the case.

She was moved from alternative lifestyle housing because of disciplinary issues. After three write-ups, an inmate is labeled a "problem inmate " and is transferred to administrative segregation, more commonly referred to as "ad-seg. "

She was put in disciplinary housing in February, March and part of April. Those in ad-seg come from all areas of the jail. There is no alternative-lifestyle section in ad-seg and she was housed with members of the general population men, who look like men and act like men.

Men who have been convicted or accused of violent felonies. Men who spend all their free time weight lifting. Gay men who Tates says were jealous of the attention she received from other men.

"I ain't trying to find no man in jail, " Tates said.

They teased her, called her "he-she, " "it, " "freak " the list goes on. They stared at her naked body in the shower, asked how she got so shapely, where her womanly breasts came from.

"I am sorry if you are subjected to ridicule, but the Sheriff's Department cannot prevent these comments, " a deputy identified only as J. Nuss wrote in response to one of Tate's many complaints. "Sheriff's personnel treat you fairly and professionally. I will monitor the review you have upcoming and hope the review will answer some of your concerns. "

On March 31, Tates filed a grievance regarding a comment made by a "civilian " touring the facility who asked why a woman was being housed with men. Tates said she heard the deputy describe her as a "he-she, " to which the guest laughed.

"I felt very humiliated and as if I was part of a circus act, " Tates wrote in the grievance. "`He-she' is a very highly offensive term to transsexuals. "

A supervisor, identified in the document only as Sgt. Stewart, responded and said the deputy's comment was overheard by Tates, not directed at her.

"You are in a correctional environment and there may be sensitivities bruised in the normal course of events, " Stewart wrote in a response dated April 4. "It is not intended, and in this case, it was a comment not planned for you to hear. "

She is not used to the ridicule because on the outside, people assume she is a woman. The name-calling is demeaning. Her time in West Valley has caused her many sleepless nights.

"I know I am in jail, and I accept that, but they are constantly hurting my feelings, " Tates said.

Raised lines of shiny new skin stripe her left arm from wrist to mid-forearm, each about an eighth of an inch wide and about 4 inches long.

The grotesque scars are what remain of deep gashes made with a razor blade, or other sharp objects, by a woman trapped in a man's body, desperate to end the humiliation.

Tates lays her right hand over the healed wounds to hide them.

"I am so ashamed of these, " she said softly, her gaze turned downward.

The abuse goes beyond hurt feelings, Tates said.

On Feb. 2, Tates said she was brutally attacked by inmate Jason Harris, who hid in the showers while Tates was released for her exercise time. At the time, Harris and Tates were in disciplinary housing, where inmates are isolated from each other.

Harris, who is in custody on suspicion of murder, later apologized to Tates and claimed he was ordered by a deputy to "hurt " her. She believed him, saying she fears the guards more than the inmates.

Chris Daley, the director of the Transgender Law Center in San Francisco, said it is not uncommon for many male-to-female transgender women to believe in such a conspiracy. The center has heard numerous stories from other incarcerated women who believe the same.

"The day-to-day fears of violence is really about staff and not so much the other inmates, or that the guards are in some way at play in abuses by other inmates, " Daley said. "Of course, it's only anecdotal. There have been no studies, or anything, this is just what we are hearing. "

Tates filed another grievance, claiming the deputies should have better secured the shower area, thus preventing the attack. Sheriff's officials responded by saying they cannot always control what other inmates do.

Harris and Tates are now "close friends, " Tates said, which has led Harris to experience further abuse from deputies and other inmates.

Harris asked to be transferred to Alternative Lifestyle Housing because there, the harassment will stop.

"He's not gay, " Tates said of Harris, "but once you've got that rumor on you in general population, you might as well be. "

Although Harris may see the housing move as a better alternative, others in that tier believe they are treated worse by jail staffers because of their sexual or gender preferences.

Raul Correa, 26, who was convicted of car-jacking an elderly person, wrote a grievance accusing jail staffers of ignoring his calls for help during an asthma attack because of how he chooses to live his life.

"I feel without a doubt that I was only treated like this due to my being a transsexual, " Correa wrote on June 3.

Christian Romero, sentenced to 120 days for taking a car without permission, filed a complaint alleging his toilet was not fixed in a timely matter because he is gay.

To those and dozens of other similar grievances filed by Tates, sheriff's officials routinely respond that the department does not discriminate based on "sexual lifestyle. "

They see Tate's complaints as excessive and a misuse of the grievance process. Various supervisors who have responded to Tate's written complaints say her accusations are unsubstantiated and not factually supported.

"It is understandable that the officers working in the unit find your accusations problematic. ... Your position is that everyone else is wrong. ... Unsupportive rhetoric is difficult to resolve, " a West Valley supervisor wrote. "I hope you will consider your role in correctional housing and how you can be a part of the solution to your perceived problem. "

Solutions to Tate's problems, and those who are charged with guarding correctional facilities, are complex and elusive.

Experts agree that "proper assignments " or classification of the inmates could help. Jails and prisons, in general, assign inmates based on their genitalia, and not on their "gender-identity, " or the gender they chose to live their life as.

Certainly a post-operative transgender, someone who has already had the surgery to change from male to female, should be housed with women, Carrol said. Pre-operative inmates, like Tates, present a more complex situation.

Daley of the Transgender Law Center said many male-to-female transgenders have been living their lives as women and taking hormones for years. The only manly thing about them is their penis.

"Only a limited number of transgenders have the surgery, " Daley said.

Tates, and those like her, would certainly be targets for attacks and sexual abuse, which are said to occur in jails and prisons regardless of sexual preference, if placed with general population men.

"Her life, if that were the case, would be very difficult, " Carrol said.

Daley and other advocates argue that inmates should be classified by their gender identity, regardless of genitalia, but even that poses a problem, he admits. Female-to-male transgenders are generally not comfortable with being placed in custody with men because of their size and genitalia. Daley said that placement would likely put them in danger.

"I have yet to hear of a really effective solution, " Daley said.

Respect on behalf of the guards and other inmates will also go a long way, Daley said. Deputies and jail staffers should undergo proper training and know that certain terms or comments are unacceptable.

For example, using an improper pronoun or a previous name is considered an attempt to put a transgender "in their place, " and remind them what gender they were born as, Daley said. Such actions suggest that a person is wrong for choosing to identify as the opposite gender.

"It all comes down to respect and safety, " Daley said. "The method ... has to be one that doesn't punish transgender people simply for being transgender. "

Carrol applauded the Sheriff's Department for offering a separate area for those who live alternative lifestyles. Many states, like Rhode Island, do not have such designations. California is more "progressive, " he said.

But it's a double-edged sword.

Inmates in alternative housing complain they are too often put in contact with general population inmates, subjecting them to probable harassment and harm. At the same time, they complain they are unfairly kept from attending church with the general population.

The Supreme Court ruled in Johnson v. California that racial segregation of inmates was unconstitutional. Correctional officials separated inmates by race in the first 90 days because of the violent conflicts between prison gangs, many of which are racially divided, Carrol said.

Although the separation was done in the name of safety, it was condemned. Carrol warns the same could happen with the sexual-preference debate, once the issue becomes more prevalent.

"That is the kind of issue that managers of correctional facilities face, " Carrol said. "The issue of transgenders is a more extreme instance of that. "

[tippinnottrippin]

Oh well life a bitch then you die. I won't shed a tear he-she put itself in that spot. "Freaky"