What the crap Mexico?

[MrsKellyPierce]

Washington Post reports that "a dozen pop musicians have been killed in the past year in Mexico" by drug lords. The latest victim: Sergio Gómez, a superstar with an international following.

He was kidnapped after a show, then tortured, beaten and killed.


Nearly every one of the slayings bore the hallmarks of the drug cartel hitmen blamed for 4,000 deaths in the country in the past two years.


But the savage murder of Sergio Gómez -- one of Mexico's hottest singers, a headliner whose band, K-Paz de la Sierra, commanded $100,000 a show, twice the rate of other top bands -- was different. It has set off an unprecedented chain reaction in which at least half a dozen bands have canceled concert tours. Popular bands, such as the Duranguense act Patrulla 81, which backed out of four major shows, are terrified of coming to Morelia and the surrounding state of Michoacan.


It is common knowledge in Mexico's music industry, but not known to the general public, that drug cartels finance the careers of some budding musicians, then launder money through unregulated concert ticket sales, according to industry sources, musicians and law enforcement.

[LTR_Seeker]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them its

[lust4ts]

That's nothing, papers over here report little Billy from Frallet Lane got his lunch money stolen yesterday!

[MrsKellyPierce]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them itsWhen I visited Mexico the people were so nice and friendly. Even though they knew I was just a "white girl". They went out of their way to show me around their grocery store and helped me order the food I wanted. People that didn't even work at the restaurant even. I'll make sure to not visit those cities. :lol:

[vegasboy]

Certain parts of Mexico are quite dangerous and it's probably dangerous to be wealthy there and not have lots of security. But the trips I've taken to Mexico City were some of the best times I've had.

But...don't really know any of the Mexican pop stars in question.

[LTR_Seeker]

not talking about the local people talking about the gov & drugs i been to tiajuana alot of times nice people there

[MrsKellyPierce]

Certain parts of Mexico are quite dangerous and it's probably dangerous to be wealthy there and not have lots of security. But the trips I've taken to Mexico City were some of the best times I've had.

But...don't really know any of the Mexican pop stars in question. I don't either, but 4000 is a lot of people.

[MrsKellyPierce]

not talking about the local people talking about the gov & drugs i been to tiajuana alot of times nice people there true, I will say this when the girls went through my bags they were smelling and trying on my lotions and perfumes it kind of made me laugh

[LTR_Seeker]

just as long as the men wasnt kelly lol.

[MrsKellyPierce]

just as long as the men wasnt kelly lol. No the woman checked the girl bags and the men checked the men bags.

[DJ_Asia]

Will be interesting to see when the North American Union becomes a areality and those borders are legally kicked wide open.

[justatransgirl]

I know about the music cartel thing, probably was something drug related.

I've been all over Mexico - I was right in the middle of the Zapatista Revolt in 93 as jouurnalist. I go to Tijuana anywhere from monthly to a few times a year (I live like 20 minutes from the border).

We kept a friends 50' sailboat in Ensenada for a winter about 3 years ago and would drive down on the weekends to go sailing. The only time I ever felt vulnerable was driving in his $150,000 Mercedes down the coast road. It was like holding out a sign saying "kidnap me."

I love Mexico City - the street robbery capital of the world I think. Guadalajara is nice, but I've never had time to explore it. I think my favorite place is San Cristobol in the winter.

I've been there as a guy and as a t-girl and 99.9% of the time you will find the people are lovely.

I also met the former President, Carols Salinas Gotari on several occasions, the one who ended up in exile in Ireland for looting the treasury. I don't mention that to people in Mexico...

Oh yeah, I forgot. When I was about 20 I sailed a boat down to Cabo. That was fun.

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[Coroner]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them its

What about US and A?

[sdman]

Washington Post reports that "a dozen pop musicians have been killed in the past year in Mexico" by drug lords. The latest victim: Sergio Gómez, a superstar with an international following.

He was kidnapped after a show, then tortured, beaten and killed.


Nearly every one of the slayings bore the hallmarks of the drug cartel hitmen blamed for 4,000 deaths in the country in the past two years.


But the savage murder of Sergio Gómez -- one of Mexico's hottest singers, a headliner whose band, K-Paz de la Sierra, commanded $100,000 a show, twice the rate of other top bands -- was different. It has set off an unprecedented chain reaction in which at least half a dozen bands have canceled concert tours. Popular bands, such as the Duranguense act Patrulla 81, which backed out of four major shows, are terrified of coming to Morelia and the surrounding state of Michoacan.


It is common knowledge in Mexico's music industry, but not known to the general public, that drug cartels finance the careers of some budding musicians, then launder money through unregulated concert ticket sales, according to industry sources, musicians and law enforcement.


Mexico is a shit hole country. Americans will be wise to not go there and even wiser if we can build a wall high enough to keep them out of our country!

[hippifried]

well... We knew that had to pop out sooner or later.

[omghi2u]

hey lets be honest, if some other drug gangs musician was stealing my musicians fan base.... well i think you get the idea

[sdman]

I've seen some specials on Mexico and it's a corrupt country. Many Americans are killed there every year and the government doesn't even help looking for them.

[DJ_Asia]

Washington Post reports that "a dozen pop musicians have been killed in the past year in Mexico" by drug lords. The latest victim: Sergio Gómez, a superstar with an international following.

He was kidnapped after a show, then tortured, beaten and killed.


Nearly every one of the slayings bore the hallmarks of the drug cartel hitmen blamed for 4,000 deaths in the country in the past two years.


But the savage murder of Sergio Gómez -- one of Mexico's hottest singers, a headliner whose band, K-Paz de la Sierra, commanded $100,000 a show, twice the rate of other top bands -- was different. It has set off an unprecedented chain reaction in which at least half a dozen bands have canceled concert tours. Popular bands, such as the Duranguense act Patrulla 81, which backed out of four major shows, are terrified of coming to Morelia and the surrounding state of Michoacan.


It is common knowledge in Mexico's music industry, but not known to the general public, that drug cartels finance the careers of some budding musicians, then launder money through unregulated concert ticket sales, according to industry sources, musicians and law enforcement.


Mexico is a shit hole country. Americans will be wise to not go there and even wiser if we can build a wall high enough to keep them out of our country!

Get used to it slick

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

[Night Rider]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them its

What about US and A?

I thought the same but didn't waste time typing it because I knew nobody would answer it :smh

[SouthoftheBorder]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them its

What about US and A?

Coroner,

It's only us. Gringos are perfect! If in doubdt look at Bush. As a democracy they voted for him....

[MrsKellyPierce]

I would just like to say it was not my intent to say mean things about the country. I am just surprised is all, 4,000 people in 2 years is a lot of people in my eyes. When I visited Mexico I loved the people and the city I was in. Everyone was really nice to me.

[SouthoftheBorder]

I don't either, but 4000 is a lot of people.

Unfortunattly, I think the number is not far from reality. Here, across from El Paso, TX, we normally have around one dead per week. All related to drug activity.

However! if you are not related to drugs, you would not be a target for them, because it's only bussines.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I don't either, but 4000 is a lot of people.

Unfortunattly, I think the number is not far from reality. Here, across from El Paso, TX, we normally have around one dead per week. All related to drug activity.

However! if you are not related to drugs, you would not be a target for them, because it's only bussines. wow thats sad. I'm not thankfully, I just went to get cut apart and put back together.

[SouthoftheBorder]

I will say this when the girls went through my bags they were smelling and trying on my lotions and perfumes it kind of made me laugh

Kelly,

It makes me laugh also and belive me we don't understand why men and women smell everything. My wife and I own a mexican art store, and people smell the stone craft. I really think it is a cultural thing. I don't understand mexicans! :lol:

[SouthoftheBorder]

Will be interesting to see when the North American Union becomes a areality and those borders are legally kicked wide open.

Hopefully it would never happen! :x

We as good neighbors love and hate each other, and we want to stary that way!

[CORVETTEDUDE]

The criminal community in Mexico merely emulates their "Big Brother" from the North, whether it be present day or ala Al Capone/Bonnie & Clyde/The Gambino Family, etc. Different products, same process.

I like Mexico, but I don't get stupid when out of my own back yard!

[vegasboy]

The criminal community in Mexico merely emulates their "Big Brother" from the North, whether it be present day or ala Al Capone/Bonnie & Clyde/The Gambino Family, etc. Different products, same process.

I like Mexico, but I don't get stupid when out of my own back yard!
Yeah I was going to say this in response to Coroner, who made a legitimate point. Sure, we're not without our corruption, and the mob was out of control for a while. But we're talking about large differences in degree.

There were people working around the clock trying to bring down Al Capone. It was just that they couldn't connect him directly to any of the murders his gang had committed. Hence why he was convicted of tax evasion. There have also been crooked cops, and some sporting events that people thought the mob had influence over. Liston-Ali II is a great example...and Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo were convicted of influencing boxing matches.

I'll say I understand very little about the rico statutes except that they were supposedly named after Edward G Robinson's character in Little Caesar. But they were designed to make it easier to target organized crime. In Mexico, things sound like they're way out of control. I don't think we're going to see 4000 of our own pop stars swimming with the fishes anytime soon.

[LTR_Seeker]

I againt the north america union america is messend up enough as single country why combine all 3

[SouthoftheBorder]

I don't think we're going to see 4000 of our own pop stars swimming with the fishes anytime soon.

I honestly think this informationh of the 4000 artists is incorect from the Post. However 4000 people murdered this year in Mexico, I'll buy that! But again. Drug related.

I know it dosen't matter its a lot of people, but just trying to make the point that those 4000 were no honest people.

[Coroner]

well mexico always been deeply corrupt on somany levels shame we ever sharee a border with them its

What about US and A?

Coroner,

It's only us. Gringos are perfect! If in doubdt look at Bush. As a democracy they voted for him....

The Aztecs and Maya will return. :)

[vegasboy]

I don't think we're going to see 4000 of our own pop stars swimming with the fishes anytime soon.

I honestly think this informationh of the 4000 artists is incorect from the Post. However 4000 people murdered this year in Mexico, I'll buy that! But again. Drug related.

I know it dosen't matter its a lot of people, but just trying to make the point that those 4000 were no honest people.
Point taken. The point of this thread shouldn't be to say that Mexico is an undesirable place at all. That there's corruption says nothing about the people. I went to Mexico once and had a great time.

I hope they're able to get the drug cartels under control because it sounds like there's a lot of violence. Even when it's mostly "bad" people, occasionally it spills over and effects good people. So best of luck.

[vegasboy]

Also we're talking about different things. That there's corruption that subverts democracy is somewhat different than corruption in the law enforcement. But of course it comes full circle.

I would say that the U.S has some corruption, particularly if we look at the 2000 elections in Florida. And who knows about those stupid diebold machines that counted the votes in Ohio in 2004. I'm just saying, criminals aren't killing people and paying anyone huge bribes to stay out of prison. This is the topic after all.

Gangs and organized crime has much less power than they did at one point and overall I'd say it's very small. They're underground groups living isolated from society.

[Coroner]

Diving nerds know that Mexico is a paradise for them. Great people and the most beautiful country in the world. Fuck the politics, you don´t have to go to Mexico City to have fun. The snakes are a bigger problem than the drug bosses. :lol:

[MrsKellyPierce]

I don't either, but 4000 is a lot of people.

Unfortunattly, I think the number is not far from reality. Here, across from El Paso, TX, we normally have around one dead per week. All related to drug activity.

However! if you are not related to drugs, you would not be a target for them, because it's only bussines. wow thats sad. I'm not thankfully, I just went to get cut apart and put back together.That's the thing. I wonder if I really explored what I would have encountered. But i went from the airport, right to the hospital. And then from there to the hotel. I walked around a little in the daytime, but not too far off the beaten path. The people at the hotel and a couple of restaurants were cool, but i wouldn't press my luck beyond that. I was skeered. lol I went around a lot, cause my boyfriend was an explorer. The other girl at the recovery house wanted to go shopping so I went with her with big huge glasses on and my nose thingy on it was hilarious. We were like the bobsie twins.

[LBCDO]

Mexico is a shit hole country. Americans will be wise to not go there and even wiser if we can build a wall high enough to keep them out of our country!

This is the most stupid shit Ive read since Ive been on HA. I can see the mindset of this dick.

I love mexico. I used to live there. Yea, the shit gets hectic, but if you arent looking for trouble, you wont find it very easily. If you have some sort of street smarts, you wont have a problem.

The people in Mexico can be nice and dicks, but the fucked up treatment here is one reason why the people in Mexico who hate americans are so mean to them. I had someone say to me "In the US, people treat Mexicans like they are less than shit. So you come over here, and want to fuck our women, and when you fuck up, you think its ok". And its the truth.

How many artist do we have that are locked up and killed over bullshit? How many movie stars/pro athletes do we have that kill their spouses? How many corrupt cops do we have who rape, kill, and rob people? I guess people seem to forget all of this when they talk shit about other countries. Its because as americans a lot of us look at other countries and are like WTF are they doing?

Not just mexico, but a large percentage of the world thinks the US is cocky and ignorant. Life is different there. If you make $40/wk, getting a couple hundred, or a couple thousand is definitely appealing. It is what it is.

Ive heard of those group KPaz de la Sierra and Patrulla 81. When I watch Univision you always hear about them. Thats messed up dude got killed though.

[justatransgirl]

I'm not going to get into the slurr thing. My personal beliefs are that if you are in the US illegally you need to go home and get a visa.

But "I" can say that because for several years I was a LEGAL resident of Mexico, and I was once MARRIED to a Honduran girl, and lived in that country too.

And let me tell you if you aren't in those countries legally and you get caught, after they beat the crap out of you in jail, they will deport your ass quicker than you can say "forgot my passport."

As for the murder rate - see the chart below.

Mexico - 13,000+ murders in 2006.
USA - 12,000+ murders in 2006
Soldiers killed in Iraq - since war began 3,900 / 800+ in 2007

Also... from various sources not absolute figures.

Tijuana - 350+ murders in 2006
Los Angeles - 464 murders in 2006
NYC - 579 murders in 2006

Hummm, sort of makes you wonder about things doesn't it? Bascially you have less chance of getting killed in Iraq than you do in either the US or Mexico.

I also read an interesting statistic awhile back. I forgot where. But in the USA about 90% of murder victims had prior police arrest records.

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[Dino Velvet]

Thanks for the list. India really knows how to bring the hate. Russia's got some catching up to do. I thought I would see Brazil somewhere on the list.

[Coroner]

Thanks for the list. India really knows how to bring the hate. Russia's got some catching up to do. I thought I would see Brazil somewhere on the list.

Yes. I was watching a documentary about the crime in Brazil and about 38.000 people die in Brazil per year. That´s more than in countries that are at war.

[Dino Velvet]

I guess the Sudan isn't on the list because the guy who counts the corpses lying in the middle of the road is in danger of becoming one.

[horndog]

4000 artists is incorrect

YOU are correct sir... However, that doesn't excuse the excessively high murder rate in Mexico.


The Aztecs and Maya will return.

Respectfully, ain't gonna happen. The "Aztecs" are done, historically speaking. However, the blood of the Aztec nation runs in a very high percentage of modern day Mexicans.

On the other hand, there are still a lot of direct descendants of the Maya living in southern Mexico as well as Central America.


Without wanting to turn this into a flame fest, I'll throw in my two cents from also having spent a lot of time in various areas of Mexico.

Mexico's numero uno problem is endemic corruption. The MAIN source of that corruption is drugs, their manufacture, sale or transfer.

Mexico's drug cartels numero uno customer? The U. S. of A.

As a patriotic American, I find it shameful that so many of my fellow citizens are unknowingly or uncaringly, contributing to the misery down there. That misery is going to make its way up here too. Just the way it is.

[Justawannabe]

Okay, I'll chime in...

The murder numbers are meaningless without knowing how many people live in those cities/countries. Murder rates as a fixed number assumes you could get that number to zero, just not possible. You have to compare apples to apples as it were.

The US is much safer, given the numbers listed given the population differences.

It's a shame when anyone dies, worse when murdered... but the real shock value here, and why this rates as 'man bites dog' is that in the US we think money, fame or power will protect you. We have lots of celebrities who do bad stuff and get away with it, but rarely do you see a celebrity be the victim of targeted violence that isn't related to mental illness.

And while we certainly have plenty of corruption here in the US, it's still something that gets punished when caught. It's rare you see entire towns police forces accused of corruption. The punishment may not be enough, or fit the crime, but usually folks at least lose their jobs and have to move.

Okay... done now...

Sean

[vietboy]

As for the murder rate - see the chart below.

Mexico - 13,000+ murders in 2006.
USA - 12,000+ murders in 2006
Exactly as justawannabe said above...

Jamie did not provide "the murder rate", only the absolute number of murders per country. The absolute numbers need to be divided by population and multiplied by 100,000 to obtain the murder rate per 100,000 people, for the sake of comparability.

To take the numbers in the chart Jamie provided, and using the most recent population figures in the World Factbook:

India 37,170 murders / 1,147,995,898 = 3.24 murders per 100,000 population
Russia 28,904 murders / 140,702,094 = 20.5 murders per 100,000
Columbia 26,539 murders / 45,013,674 = 59.0 murders per 100,000
South Africa 21,995 murders / 43,786,115 = 50.2 murders per 100,000
Mexico 13,829 murders / 109,955,400 = 12.6 murders per 100,000
USA 12,658 murders / 303,824,646 = 4.17 murders per 100,000
Venezuela 8,022 murders / 26,414,815 = 30.4 murders per 100,000
Thailand 5,140 murders / 65,493,298 = 7.88 murders per 100,000
Ukraine 4,418 murders / 45,994,287 = 9.61 murders per 100,000
Indonesia 2,204 / 237,512,355 = 0.9 murders per 100,000
Poland 2,170 murders / 38,500,696 = 5.64 murders per 100,000
France 1,051 murders / 64,057,790 = 1.64 murders per 100,000
Belarus 1,013 murders / 9,685,768 = 10.5 murders per 100,000
Germany 960 murders / 82,369,548 = 1.17 murders per 100,000
South Korea 955 murders / 49,232,844 = 1.94 murders per 100,000
Jamaica 887 murders / 2,804,332 = 31.63 murders per 100,000
UK 850 murders / 60,943,912 = 1.39 murders per 100,000

Some of these figures surely suffer from underreporting. Also, I am not sure from what year, and from what source, the numbers in Jamie's table are from. Crime stats at the FBI indicate that there were 16,137 murders in 2004 in the US (5.5 murders per 100,000).

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html
See Table 2.3 and 2.4...
Tragically, most murders in the US are committed by black men in their teens to 30's, and most murder victims are black men in their teens to 30's. This is even more tragic when you consider that blacks only account for about 12% of the American population.

Thailand is an interesting case. A not insignificant portion of the murders in Thailand are from the Islamic insurgency and terrorism in South Thailand (about 1600 dead militants and 2500 dead civilians in the first 3 years of the insurgency, for approximately 1,400 per year).

See http://www.zombietime.com/thai_jihad_photos/