Objectionable material - your advice.

[GroobySteven]

Ok just had a fetish set come in and looking for your advice.
The model is wearing a cross on her right arm (see pic).

Now I'm probably not hip enough to get what it means as I have seen people wearing this but wasn't this a nazi/world war 2 symbol also? (Let's not start a discussion how the swastika was stolen from a Christian symbol which in turn was stolen from an older Asian symbol please).

What I want to know is...is this symbol in the context of this set offensive?
Your opinions on this subject only, if you please.
thanks
seanchai

[Overlord Abomination]

Well im not offended by it but that might be because I really just think its a regular cross. It doesnt look like a swastika So more power to whoever wears it.

[Edmund]

It's an Iron Cross. Germans used it on medals and other military indicia in WWII. I'm not offended, but I can see where people would be.

[partlycloudy]

What I want to know is...is this symbol in the context of this set offensive?

no. the iron cross was popularized by hitler but i don't consider it the same as swastika.

[Slither]

That symbol is mostly just trendy now. Lots of people use it (West Coast Choppers, the wrestler Triple H, some band used it as their logo, and a couple of others i'm forgetting)

[GroobySteven]

That's it The Iron Cross!
Thanks - anyone see that movie with James Coburn - an early Peckinpah I think.
seanchai

[steeveX]

this is an iron cross

awarded in nazi-germany for as a medal of honor kinda thing. altho one has to say a lot gi`s took them with em when returning to the US as an artifact that showed they have defeated the enemy and made it popular among 1950/60ies biker gangs-the same goes with californian surfer subculture. me as a big fan of b-grade movies (roger corman style) has to say in a lot of those biker movies from 1965-1975 u can spot those crosses on a lot of the characters (even in "born to be wilrd" i think)....

on the other hand i suppose it is popular among nazis for obvious reasons. still its hard to imagine a nazi-tgirl.

[steeveX]

ooops the movie was "Easy Rider" of course

[Adam_Thompson]

this is an iron cross

awarded in nazi-germany for as a medal of honor kinda thing. altho one has to say a lot gi`s took them with em when returning to the US as an artifact that showed they have defeated the enemy and made it popular among 1950/60ies biker gangs-the same goes with californian surfer subculture. me as a big fan of b-grade movies (roger corman style) has to say in a lot of those biker movies from 1965-1975 u can spot those crosses on a lot of the characters (even in "born to be wilrd" i think)....

on the other hand i suppose it is popular among nazis for obvious reasons. still its hard to imagine a nazi-tgirl.

Very true. I don't like it personally, but that's because Chicago Skins (Skinheads) wear them alot in my suburbs. For the most part people don't look at it as offensive...no big deal.

[sjamaica]

where is this coming from?
you and i both know that there are a LOT of people offended by what you have on the site now. do we give a hoot?
why are you worried about what offends who/m?
and if they are, SO?
she's a real person with real art on her arm.
for most members , who looks at that "arm' anyway?
please! i thought that you would be the LAST person worried about what is offensive.
to paraphrase a popular song a few years ago, " It's like that, and that's the way it is!'

[GroobySteven]

where is this coming from?
From me obviously, read the post.



you and i both know that there are a LOT of people offended by what you have on the site now. do we give a hoot?
What a retarded remark. People offended by porn or by shemales have a choice to come to the site, if they manage to link to an obvious shemale site and then ignore the warnings about what is inside then it's their own fault. Showing something that might be offensive to someone based on their ethnic background is a completely different matter as we have tgirl lovers of all backgrounds coming to sites like mine. Showing something which may be construed as a racist photoset (I now know it's not) is not something I want to promote or have associated with my site.[/quote]



why are you worried about what offends who/m?
and if they are, SO?
I'm a businessman and I care what people think of me and my business. Obviously you're not concerned with what people think of you at all.[/quote]


she's a real person with real art on her arm.
for most members , who looks at that "arm' anyway?
I looked at the arm. I think anyone looking at the set would look at a symbol.


please! i thought that you would be the LAST person worried about what is offensive.

You obviously know NOTHING about me.

I asked for this topic to be kept on topic just to do with that symbol as I couldn't recall/was ignorant as to it's origins and meanings. What an idiotic response.
Thanks for all your other answers.
seanchai

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Ok just had a fetish set come in and looking for your advice.
The model is wearing a cross on her right arm (see pic).

Now I'm probably not hip enough to get what it means as I have seen people wearing this but wasn't this a nazi/world war 2 symbol also? (Let's not start a discussion how the swastika was stolen from a Christian symbol which in turn was stolen from an older Asian symbol please).

What I want to know is...is this symbol in the context of this set offensive?
Your opinions on this subject only, if you please.
thanks
seanchai

Actually the Iron Cross was in use in WWI as well as II. Personally it is in such wide use these days i doubt most people see it in any way but a popular design.

Yeah Skinheads use the symbol......personally it looks alot better on her, how about some more pics of her. :P

[Ecstatic]

The Iron Cross has a long history, being originally established by King Friedrich Wilhelm III in 1813. In 1914 Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany and the King of Prussia, reestablished the medal, which was awarded without regard for nationality or social class to combatants for acts of heroism, bravery or leadership skills.

It was very popular during the First World War when Germany awarded over five million of these medals to members of the armed forces. The prize was the Grand Cross (only 5 awarded), followed by the First Class (288,000) and the Second Class (5,200,000).

I would not associate it with Nazism.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Let me explain the first part of my message alittle bit more.

The Rebel flag is still in use today....and alot of people asscociate it with slavery.

The rising sun (japanese imperial flag of WWII) is enjoying a new rise of popularity on tricked out cars.

All of these signs and many more have very negative images to people
but alas they are still in use, So I personally wouldn't sweat it.

Seanchai now if it were the swastika on her arm and it wasn't a Major fetish type shoot (dominatrix type thing) then i would worry even if it were that type of shoot it would still be an iffy situation.

personally if anybody should be offended let it be a skinhead, turnabout is fair play, they have offended some people for a long time now. It is about time they get their panties in a bind. :D

Seanchai i think smjamaica was trying to say we all know you wouldn't put out something you felt to REALLY set a few people off. Hell Seanchai your one of the cool people here a HA. Keep up the good work and remember my Signature.

[BURN]

The Iron Cross has a long history, being originally established by King Friedrich Wilhelm III in 1813. In 1914 Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany and the King of Prussia, reestablished the medal, which was awarded without regard for nationality or social class to combatants for acts of heroism, bravery or leadership skills.

It was very popular during the First World War when Germany awarded over five million of these medals to members of the armed forces. The prize was the Grand Cross (only 5 awarded), followed by the First Class (288,000) and the Second Class (5,200,000).

I would not associate it with Nazism.

spot on

i still have my grandfathers iron cross he got for no reason other than not dying, he was in a medical corps, had to bring out the dead coz he was too nice to kill anyone

[dreamer]

seanchai...I wouldn't even have noticed it if you didn't mention it

[Overlord Abomination]

seanchai...I wouldn't even have noticed it if you didn't mention it

[LBCDO]

Its ok seanchai. I dont konw many skin heads, LOL, so I cant vouch for their use of it, but I know Im not offended by it, and im an "urban youth". Indpendant Skateboard company uses it for their logo. Its all good! But I think you already have gotten your answer

[el hermano]

ooops the movie was "Easy Rider" of course
That's funny, I read it as easy rider and didn't even notice your mistake until I saw your correction post

[Kramer]

People need to stop being so damn sensitive. Who cares what is posted, from a rebel flag to a swastika, who the hell cares. That was a long time ago.

[sjamaica]

i wasn't trying to disparage you, or how you conduct yourself in how you deal with peoples feelings.

i don't fell the personal tone of your response ( attack) was warrented

sjamaica wrote:
where is this coming from?

your reply: From me obviously, read the post.

obviously you can't read. the question is WHERE, not WHO.
I thought that you could comprehend more than a literal interpretation of that phrase.
To help you, it means what is the motivating force that makes you ask this question. i only ask, because i know there are people offended by anything dealing with race mixing,but i haven't seen that question asked.
so in dealing with tgirl lovers of all backgrounds, some sensitivities get more respect than others?

sjamaica wrote:



why are you worried about what offends who/m?
and if they are, SO?

your reply:I'm a businessman and I care what people think of me and my business. Obviously you're not concerned with what people think of you at all.

i know you are a businessman, I'm a customer of yours (was there at the beginning of yum and black-tgirls)

I'm honest with people and with my self, i treat people fairly and treat them how i wish they would treat me ( whether they do or not), so, if that's not enough, yes i am not concerned with what people think of me.
my question is, if you had any doubts, why take a chance? just don't run the set. end of story.

sjamaica wrote:

she's a real person with real art on her arm.
for most members , who looks at that "arm' anyway?

i meant this to be funny. you didn't get it.
seriously, it's art. everybody can be offended by some piece of art somewhere. in this context, i think you see something no one else sees.

sjamaica wrote:

please! i thought that you would be the LAST person worried about what is offensive.
your reply: You obviously know NOTHING about me

no shit! i don't know you at all! ( as this back and forth shows)

again, i was not commenting on you personally. there are people offended by sex and sexual things. there is a atmosphere in the usa that is downright poisonous toward some people having the same hopes dreams and rights as the rest or the population.

this does not bother you. ( i guess it's business)

but a iron cross gave you pause, but that fact that it's also a CROSS dosn't?
the original question goes the heart of the question you asked.
so again " where is this coming from?"

[GroobySteven]

sjamaica
Thanks for your comeback.

You need to realise (as I should after 8 yrs of typing this garbage) that email/forum postings don't allow for dry humour, sarcasm or much with - what is stated is pretty much literal, so I appreciate your clarification as I'm sure you can read mine.

My isssue was with the cross...ignorance (or old age at 34) at forgetting what the iron cross was, now I'm reminding and remember it from the Black Widows (ahem) and other outputs I know it's ok. Can you imagine though, that I was ignorant enough to put something that was genuinely offensive to a culture or ethnic background who may represent my membership purely because I was not aware of what it means? Surely people understand it's better for me to ask and ensure it's okay instead of just posting the set?

To those of you who have a "who cares if it's offensive just do it" attitude, you're leading extremely shallow lives. I woudln't walk into a house of worship, whatever denomination, as long as it doens't intrude into my life and impose views on others. In the same way, if I want to have a diatribe about the insanity new rules of the USA's ruler's Attourney General on the adult industry, I'd post it in a forum that was appropriate and not anything blatently.

We're here to discuss transgender erotica and related subjects - to any individuals whose ethnic/racial/religious backgrounds doesn't detract from that. Insulting or offending somewhat needlessly is pointless and detrimental to business as well as being against where my principles lie.
Thanks again for your rebuttal.
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

seanchai, it speaks to your integrity that you raised the question before running the photos. And it's great to see such dialogue here, which breaks us out of our usual patterns.

[will]

Seanchai, who is the model with the cross, anyway? I looks like Aly Sinclair even though I know it's not. Nice butt. Could you post somemore pics of her now that you know nobody is offended by the cross. Thanks. :D

[GroobySteven]

We've just got her in - a model from Tampa.
Will post when they get loaded onto Yum.
thanks
seanchai

[skatingkid898]

i don't find it offensive..
but that may just be because the skateboarding
company, Flip, uses it as one of their logos

[Tara Emory]

If I'm not mistaken, the Iron cross is still used currently on German Air Force planes, so it's not an offensive symbol. Sure, it was used during WWII, but so likewise the Volkswagen company (and Mercedes Benz) had ties to Hitler's germany, yet both company use the "VW" Symbol and the three pointed star with no issue.

The current Japanese flag is still a red disk- the rising sun, though maybe back in WWII it had rays coming from it? (not sure)

I wouldn't worry about it really. A hammer and sickle? Maybe, but even that is seen as a counter-culture cool symbol, and definitely cool if one is going for the whole "sexy KGB spy cold war thing".

Actually, it is possible to do a nazi -thing and make it tasteful, as long as it refers specifically to WWII (i.e. NOT modern day neo-nazi skin heads), and taps into the whole "these guys were decadent and really, really really wrong" I've attached a pin-up piece of artwork that sorta shows what I mean. I only find it a little offensive, but it's something that actually acknowledges it's own tastelessness- does that make sense? I guess I'm thinking of like the Producers, with "Springtime for Hitler" angle..

[Tara Emory]

Actually, on second thought , it's not the iron cross that is currently still on German planes, it's the cross that is in the background in that piece of artwork. I'm not sure what that is called, but it's always been a symbol of the German military if I'm not mistaken...

-Tara

[Tara Emory]

I think I have another piece by the same artist.. I think the guys name is Andrew Bawidamann.

http://www.bawidamann.com/

-Tara

[ptyseminole]

That's a German Iron Cross, it pre-dates Nazis given that it was invented in the 19 century...It's not a Nazi medal, it's a German medal.

[TsVanessa69]

don't worry, its just "trendy" at the moment, I see tht cross on t-shirts all over.

[eviltwin585]

i think its safe - a maltese cross i think its called.

i put this in the same category as the confederate flag- it can be considered racist by the beholder, but in and of itself, it is not.

true the cross was seen in nazi emblemage, and as a result is adopted by skinheads and racists.. but its also seen as a symbol of power and strength- its adopted by bikers and is seen on every chopper occ made. i think it predates nazis and traces back to medieval germania

dont sweat this one- i think the cross is fine.

[houstonshemalefan]

not offended

[flabbybody]

Brian Bruney, relief pitcher on the Yankees, has an iron cross tatoo on his non-pitching arm.

[muhmuh]

Actually, on second thought , it's not the iron cross that is currently still on German planes, it's the cross that is in the background in that piece of artwork. I'm not sure what that is called, but it's always been a symbol of the German military if I'm not mistaken...

-Tara

actually it is the iron cross on german air force planes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Panavia_Tornado_IDS_of_Luftwaffe%2C_static_display %2C_Radom_AirShow_2005%2C_Poland.jpg

[rt_saurus]

Yeah it looks nice on that girl, and suits the rest of her outfit.

Here in NZ they are typically seen on "West Coast Choppers" hoodies, worn by white trash pretty much...

(pic stolen from eBay)

[Jericho]

Interesting article about the cross:
http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/gms/sinister.htm

[NINgirl25]

the model in that pic used to be a friend of mine, havent heard from her in a year or two :( I never see her on AIM anymore :[

[Tommy112277]

check this out-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cross

[tonkatoy]

The Iron Cross is still symbol of German Military. I know this has been said already, but this may be my only chance to post a pic of a MBT on this site. I have no problem with the iron cross in general, but definitely would with swastika. Some body here said it was possible to do a tasteful nazi themed shoot, i respectfully disagree. Anything portraying the nazis as anyhting but the evil they were only allows people to forget the horrors that occurred in Europe in war two.


The pictures are a Leopard 2A6 MBT with 120mm smooth barrel gun. The helicopter is a Sikorsky CH-53GS Super Stallion

[laoda8]

I know it sounds horrible but I'm black and I kind of love nazi fetish girl stuff. Albeit I don't really like full on racist stuff because nat all nazi soldiers were volunteers or a part of the holocaust, but I like the professional female soldier in a nazi uniform fetish.

My confession.

[stukaz29]

This kind of cross belongs to german tradiction and not to nazism.
I would remind you that cross was in the middle of german flag before nazism.
The flag of imperial Germany (I mean the German Empire of Kaiser Wilhelm that was born in 1871 after the war won against France) was composed by three horizontal stripes, black, white and red and in the middle (in white field) there was that kind of cross.
And besides I would remind you the shape of the iron cross was the same also in time before nazism (I mean in the time of Kaiser Wilhelm and Otto Von Bismarck).
Imperial Germany had its guilts (the 1914-1918 war) but was not racist.
Jews, for example. were not persecuted as tragically it happened in the dirty nazi age.

[SmashysmashY]

I wouldn't defend nazis because I hate fascists. But I'm not necessarily sure that we need to remember how evil they were as someone said. The US killed as many civilians during WWII as the germans did probably more. Should the japanese remember how evil we were? Before anyone attacks me I am not saying that what the US did and what the nazis did was the same. I am saying that if your going to remember their atrocities then you'll have to remember our atrocities too. If you want to be consistent.

But as far as the cross is concerned I don't think most people even equate it with nazism.