This kind of annoyed me

[MrsKellyPierce]

I just spoke to a gabber in a room that said if you are a transsexual and decide not to have the full op done you are a transvestite.

I further asked the the gabber to explain to me what a transvestite is and she could not explain, and posted this article http://www.symposion.com/ijt/soc_2001/soc_03.htm


I simply told the gabber that transexualism starts in the brain, if it didn't start in the brain! We wouldn't be taking the steps with hormones, surgeries, and ignoring adversity.

I told her sex to me is what lies between the ears and not anywhere else. I was like how can you say a girl isn't a transsexual if she isn't confident with the post op surgery yet. Is waiting for them to get it totally under control, before going through. She had no reply.


The article is from HBS but I don't agree with a lot of the HBS standards; she looks at is as the bible.

Just thought I'd share.

[lust4ts]

I was there too, and she was a fucking idiot. Kelly has explained it pretty well, I just thought I would add the fucking idiot bit!

[MrsKellyPierce]

lol

[yodajazz]

I think that people who think like that are too lazy or too busy to get a fuller understanding of the subject. I saw the same viewpoint on a news report from Singapore on YouTube today. They said that one woman who hung with a group of street walkers was transsexual and all the others were transvestites, because they haven’t had the full operation yet. I think the report was a few years old, but it just shows that people need to be educated on the subject.

People criticize Oprah, but I believe she addressed the subject on one of her recent shows

[MrsKellyPierce]

I thorougly agree with this Yoda

[MrsKellyPierce]

I thorougly agree with this Yoda

[justatransgirl]

Kelly - as you know there is a LOT of misconception about who is what.

It doesn't matter to us, but it does to those who don't know and are still in the infant stages of catagorization. They are and choose to remain ignorant.

Most people still equate gender with sexual perversion. I was in the car with my Mother today - her perception of gay / transgendred people, is we are all sexual deviates - catholic priests out to molest little boys, or we are all about to be exposed on To cCatch a Predator. When I pointed out the vast majority of those people are "straight" she just couldn't comprehend it.

I am not a big supporter of the Standards of Care. For one thing they were created without the input of a single transsexual. They are primarily formed on clinical expectations. The DSM IV is 7 years old.

More and more doctors are not adhering to them. I was surprised when I scheduled our orchis and my boob job - the Dr. couldn't care less that I'd spent a grand a couple of years ago to see the psych goofs to get the requisite "letters."

The SOC creates a HUGE problem for trans people. I personally didn't transition for 20 years because I never thought I would be accepted as a woman - and when I did, I became a nationally known escort and adult video performer long after most girls are washed up. I found I was accepted, and in droves. And not just in the shadows, but by mainstream society.

I didn't transition until I was ready to kill myself. I kept it hidden and buried. Mostly because of the Benjamin Standards. I never thought I would "pass." I didn't have the options the youngers girls have today. I had virtually no information until the early 1990's. There was no legal access to hormones in my youth. Very inadequate surgeries, etc. I was afraid I'd lose my friends. And I did find out who my real friends are.

I wonder how many people have killed themselves because of the "standards." I'm sure far in excess of those who killed themselves because they found SRS wasn't the happy pill they thought it would be.

So I guess my point is, Kelly you aren't going to change the opinion of people with closed minds. And it's a shame.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I totally agree with this and glad to see you back girl. I think the Standards of Care needs to be updated. Psychologist only wish they could grasp what goes inside the mental capacity of gender identity.

[theone]

I think there was a comment floating around here a while back.

"Gender is between your legs, and sexuality is between your ears"

Not sure who made the comment. Be who you want to be, not someone people think you should be.

[MacShreach]

Kelly - as you know there is a LOT of misconception about who is what.<snip>

I've snipped but your article was as usual considered and well put.

It may be because I have just had a conversation on another thread that impacts this, but I believe that as long as there is an association between TS women and the CD/TV gay scene, it will be very difficult for TS women to gain widespread sympathy. It is just too easy for a cheap hack to present you as a subset of the CD/TV scene. It's more dramatic and sells more copy.

Most straight men are afraid of their feminine side and it's easier to control if it can be mocked....hence the stories about rugby players and TS models.....(Of course no-one ever points out that spending all afternoon watching a bunch of sweating men rolling about together definitely has homosexual connotations...)

Very difficult. But it's just too easy to lump TS in with CD/TV (something the CD/TV's encourage for their own reasons.)

[Ecstatic]

I totally agree with this and glad to see you back girl. I think the Standards of Care needs to be updated. Psychologist only wish they could grasp what goes inside the mental capacity of gender identity.

I totally agree, Kelly, and I've made this point several times before. Benjamin's work was breakthrough--40 years ago. It was important, critical work, but it's past time to revise and advance that work. Human gender and sexuality are far more diverse than the SOC indicate.


I think there was a comment floating around here a while back.

"Gender is between your legs, and sexuality is between your ears"

Not sure who made the comment. Be who you want to be, not someone people think you should be.

Isn't it the other way around?

[Luna555]

Yeah it is the other way around


"Gender is between your ears , and sexuality is between your legs "

But I am not sure if its really sexuality I think its supposed to be sex because there is a difference between gender and sex. Although I dont belive the sex of someone is very important.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

The biggest persecutors are always the least educated! And, as Forest said, "Stupid is...as Stupid does."

[yodajazz]

I totally agree with this and glad to see you back girl. I think the Standards of Care needs to be updated. Psychologist only wish they could grasp what goes inside the mental capacity of gender identity.

What you say is interesting. I'm not sure what's in the Standards of Care. Doesn't it include the real life test? If it needs to be changed, then what would want to see changed? People can contact the the association that puts out the DSM-IV for changes in the definitions, for example.

One thing I learned is that for the DSM to list GID as a mental health diagnosis, means that goverment agencies such as medicaid can pay for treatment as long as the condition is diagnosed. I'm sure that other HMO's have similar policies. It's a political thing.



Kelly - as you know there is a LOT of misconception about who is what.<snip>

I've snipped but your article was as usual considered and well put.

It may be because I have just had a conversation on another thread that impacts this, but I believe that as long as there is an association between TS women and the CD/TV gay scene, it will be very difficult for TS women to gain widespread sympathy. It is just too easy for a cheap hack to present you as a subset of the CD/TV scene. It's more dramatic and sells more copy.

Most straight men are afraid of their feminine side and it's easier to control if it can be mocked....hence the stories about rugby players and TS models.....(Of course no-one ever points out that spending all afternoon watching a bunch of sweating men rolling about together definitely has homosexual connotations...)

Very difficult. But it's just too easy to lump TS in with CD/TV (something the CD/TV's encourage for their own reasons.)

I disagree with the approach of trying to separate the CD/TV community from the TS community. I believe that strength comes from numbers and separation leads to the divide and conquer approach. most all CD's admire and love TS women. Also many TS women grow from stages to where they think they are just gay; then crossdress; then embrace transexuality. Freer gender expression allows people to evovle into who they are and not feel guilt because they choose one category over another.

From what I can see, it's a few Ts women who look down on others. But I believe they are actually hurting themselves, this way.

Where the separation needs to be is from those who harm others, such as sexual predators.

[SarahG]

What you say is interesting. I'm not sure what's in the Standards of Care. Doesn't it include the real life test? If it needs to be changed, then what would want to see changed? People can contact the the association that puts out the DSM-IV for changes in the definitions, for example.

It includes that among other things.

RLE is a joke. The party line is that its to gauge if someone is really ts by seeing if they survive a period of time being fulltime 24/7 as a women (for mtf's)... the problem is when this is used as a gatekeeper litmus test to dictate access to treatments like hrt, ffs, etc- it becomes anything BUT a rle in that sense.

If you can't pass worth a shit because you haven't been on hrt yet or had ffs (in such cases where it is needed) then you're not living in society as a women, you're living in society as an abnormality and virtually every interaction you'll have from dr offices, colleagues to grocery store cashiers is going to be radically different from the "real world" for women.

The SOC proliferates the whole "overnight transition" process where someone literally wakes up one day, over night and goes fulltime without yet having done a thing to their body besides change what clothes they put on it.

There are other problems with the SOC. Any system that would refuse to supply a letter to a girl whose been fulltime and otherwise transitioned for 5+ years fundamentally has something wrong with it. Most of these shrinks are on power trips or hoping for middle aged white professionals to come in for a good fiscal milking.

I don't debate a need for psyc evaluations before certain types of medical procedures, been there & done that for some of my past plastic surgery (not trans related). There are lots of situations where this happens that has nothing to do with GID, but with GID patients there seems to be a common practice of this requirement being used to take advantage of patients in a way that isn't seen to such a degree anywhere else.

[SarahG]

oh one other thing...



I disagree with the approach of trying to separate the CD/TV community from the TS community. I believe that strength comes from numbers and separation leads to the divide and conquer approach. most all CD's admire and love TS women. Also many TS women grow from stages to where they think they are just gay; then crossdress; then embrace transexuality. Freer gender expression allows people to evovle into who they are and not feel guilt because they choose one category over another.

The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

I don't buy the argument that strength in numbers is universal, its a question of who/what makes up a given group.

Transsexuality is still seen as a taboo fetishist deviation. It is hard to advocate health care coverage while appealing as normal, every day sane people to policy makers or voters when so much of the community consists of people who wear clothes of the opposite sex as a sexual fetish. Remember, TS people are the minority in the TG community (except in cases when people also lump in intersexed people)- there are far more tv's than there are of us.

Our needs outside of discrimination issues are radically different because the conditions are so different. Like with gays, the only thing we have in common are the people who would want to hurt us.

[Caleigh]

When I first began transitioning in Toronto there was
only one way to get an Rx for hormones and that
was to go to the Clarke Institute where they put you
through an entire day of interviews with multiple
psychologists and psychiatrists and even after THAT
, IF they let you in their program they demanded
that you be fully employed, living as a woman, for
an entire year, before they would even start you on
hormones.

Luckily, for the younger girls, they have lost their
stranglehold on the transition process both through
changes in public policy and through the widespread
use of the internet for drug purchasing.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I totally agree with that assessment Ecstatic. It's just pitiful, a lot has changed in the community in 40 years. The problem with psychology is eventhough it's used to open the mind, it puts everything in a box still. If they don't fit the codes/laws/rules black and white they aren't diagnosed with the problem and/or many psychologist because of this misdiagnose their clients. They will Put them on medication they don't need or Take away medication they do need! I am talking in general not just the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care.

But back to H.B.S psychologist, counselors a lot of times can't grasp a situation and they will go by text book only and then determine the results for that persons life. To say that a transwoman that decides to not go through the whole transition is a 'transvestite' is just ignorant. When transexualism starts in the brain and its what wills all of us to change what we are on the OUTSIDE. The HBS puts every transwoman in a box and says you all have to think this way and do it this way otherwise you aren't a transsexual. It's more or less like a "confidence course" like they do in the army. If they don't make it to the end then they are forced to go through it again and again like a hamster or test mouse. Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be standards of care, but the standards of care are old, with a closed-mind, and need updated.

Furthermore many transsexuals are also misdiagnosed by psychologist/counselors every day also, the ones that are usually just focused on the "surgeries" to change who they are, are normally the ones that will commit suicide after they go through with the post-op surgery. Because they are just using the surgery to heal/scapegoat to feel different. They believe that it's the key to success, and it will change how people view them. But lets face it just because you have a vagina downstairs and you look like linebacker in a wig, people aren't going to change how they percieve you in public just because you are yelling to them "I have a vagina I have a vagina, I'm a woman I'm a woman" You have to heal also inside, gain confidence with in yourself, and realize the woman you will become and always were. If you don't know this before you go through with the surgery, why are you doing it in the first place?

I just find it very sad when girls hate on another girl, because they are farther in their transitions. As if it makes them more female, when in fact it's what is inside. The HBS forgets that a lot of times, and focus mostly on "dressing", hormone therapy, surgeries, and how long you have lived full-time. It puts less precedence on what makes us inside. This is why psychologist can't grasp it and why some transwoman and men still don't GET IT.


Okay that was long winded!

KISS

[alphanumeric]

Fuck that "being complete" hoodoo. Imo transsexuality is simply a treatment to end gender dysphoria. And no one can get in your head and tell you at what stage of transition you've successfully gotten past your own gender dysphoria. The HBS are outdated anyway. There are far more case studies now than there were when it was written.

Do you wanna see a hot mess? Just look at all the TS's who got their $4000 firecracker pussies in Thailand but never embraced their femininity, if they ever had any to embrace in the first place. They still reek of masculinity. A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers.

doesn't that sound like an arguement for the standards then?

[postopadmirer]

Kelly, Thanks for raising the topic.

I know that before I found HA I had a different view of other TS people.

I have gender issues and seriously considered SRS as a teenager. When I heard about Rene Richards I said "that is me!". That was 20+ years ago. But by then it was too late for me.

Like many older folks I was past puberty and the male hormones had already made transition harder for me, before I ever heard about SRS and HRT. My post-puberty body type makes passing VERY hard. Broad shoulders, deep voice, etc.

I basically (and I know this might not be popular with some folks) had to choose the thing I'm going to suffer with:
- I would rather "pass" well as a Guy,
- then "pass" badly as a woman.
In my heart I still want the surgery, and if they invented a way to swap bodies or induce SRS with a virus I'd be all over that puppy, but for now I am where I am.

My point: until hearing the ladies here, I never understood the whole "shemale" thing. For me there was no inbetween. Inbetween is a place I wanted to get though as quickly as possible. Breasts and a penis are just not for me, and would not work for long.

Vicky, Kelly, Allanah I would kill to look as pretty/sexy as you. The thing that keeps me from SRS is that I don't look like you, and never will. So it was hard for me to understand what kept you in what I see as middle ground.

Thanks to HA I now see that there are all sorts of legitimate reasons. Some of the major ones I notice are.
- I'm scared of the SRS final results.
- I make a living with my penis and I would hate to lose the $$$.
- I'm happy the way I am -- (I was supprised by this one)
- I'm just not ready to make that final jump, but someday...

Bottom line: thanks to you Girls for letting me into your heads and your hearts. Before HA I would have felt very much like the lady Kelly is talking about. Now I understand more the middle ground. The middle ground is not for me, but I understand it, and love some of the people who are there.

I hope what I said makes sense. I hope I have not offended anyone. I did not mean to.

POA.

[theone]

I think there was a comment floating around here a while back.

"Gender is between your legs, and sexuality is between your ears"

Not sure who made the comment. Be who you want to be, not someone people think you should be.

Yeah I got it the wrong way around. My Bad! :oops:

[MrsKellyPierce]

Kelly, Thanks for raising the topic.

I know that before I found HA I had a different view of other TS people.

I have gender issues and seriously considered SRS as a teenager. When I heard about Rene Richards I said "that is me!". That was 20+ years ago. But by then it was too late for me.

Like many older folks I was past puberty and the male hormones had already made transition harder for me, before I ever heard about SRS and HRT. My post-puberty body type makes passing VERY hard. Broad shoulders, deep voice, etc.

I basically (and I know this might not be popular with some folks) had to choose the thing I'm going to suffer with:
- I would rather "pass" well as a Guy,
- then "pass" badly as a woman.
In my heart I still want the surgery, and if they invented a way to swap bodies or induce SRS with a virus I'd be all over that puppy, but for now I am where I am.

My point: until hearing the ladies here, I never understood the whole "shemale" thing. For me there was no inbetween. Inbetween is a place I wanted to get though as quickly as possible. Breasts and a penis are just not for me, and would not work for long.

Vicky, Kelly, Allanah I would kill to look as pretty/sexy as you. The thing that keeps me from SRS is that I don't look like you, and never will. So it was hard for me to understand what kept you in what I see as middle ground.

Thanks to HA I now see that there are all sorts of legitimate reasons. Some of the major ones I notice are.
- I'm scared of the SRS final results.
- I make a living with my penis and I would hate to lose the $$$.
- I'm happy the way I am -- (I was supprised by this one)
- I'm just not ready to make that final jump, but someday...

Bottom line: thanks to you Girls for letting me into your heads and your hearts. Before HA I would have felt very much like the lady Kelly is talking about. Now I understand more the middle ground. The middle ground is not for me, but I understand it, and love some of the people who are there.

I hope what I said makes sense. I hope I have not offended anyone. I did not mean to.

POA. Thats really awesome! It's amazing how sometimes people can change their opinion or views off of a sex board. However if thats what you yearn for I'd go for it. Life is short, you only live once. There are many doctors that can turn you into a beautiful human being, but in all serious I'm so glad you typed that.

[peggygee]

I was like how can you say a girl isn't a transsexual if she isn't confident with the post op surgery yet. Is waiting for them to get it totally under control, before going through. She had no reply.




Kelly as a very happy post op woman, with a lovely looking, and well
functioning vagina, I am curious about your comment about women
waiting for the SRS procedure to be perfected.

I am wondering what is the source for your viewpoint.

I do recall that you worked for an electrologist in Florida, and that you
saw a number of post surgical results.

Is this the source of your statement?



just focused on the "surgeries" to change who they are, are normally the ones that will commit suicide after they go through with the post-op surgery.

Because they are just using the surgery to heal/scapegoat to feel different. They believe that it's the key to success, and it will change how people view them. But lets face it just because you have a vagina downstairs and you look like linebacker in a wig, people aren't going to change how they percieve you in public just because you are yelling to them "I have a vagina I have a vagina, I'm a woman I'm a woman"





This question too has come up before, and I did some research on it.

My research was not indicative of there being a higher suicide rate
amongst post op women.

I would be willing to submit my cites to support my position.

I will agree with you that a a pussy and tits, do not a woman make.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/puttytat.jpg

:roll:

[MrsKellyPierce]

I was like how can you say a girl isn't a transsexual if she isn't confident with the post op surgery yet. Is waiting for them to get it totally under control, before going through. She had no reply.




Kelly as a very happy post op woman, with a lovely looking, and well
functioning vagina, I am curious about your comment about women
waiting for the SRS procedure to be perfected.

I am wondering what is the source for your viewpoint.

I do recall that you worked for an electrologist in Florida, and that you
saw a number of post surgical results.

Is this the source of your statement?



just focused on the "surgeries" to change who they are, are normally the ones that will commit suicide after they go through with the post-op surgery.

Because they are just using the surgery to heal/scapegoat to feel different. They believe that it's the key to success, and it will change how people view them. But lets face it just because you have a vagina downstairs and you look like linebacker in a wig, people aren't going to change how they percieve you in public just because you are yelling to them "I have a vagina I have a vagina, I'm a woman I'm a woman"





This question too has come up before, and I did some research on it.

My research was not indicative of there being a higher suicide rate
amongst post op women.

I would be willing to submit my cites to support my position.

I will agree with you that a a pussy and tits, do not a woman make.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/puttytat.jpg

:roll: 31 % of transsexuals commit suicide Peggy. Thats a fact. More than that cut themselves or try to hurt themselves in someway.

I wasn't talking in my opinion on the surgery, I was saying girls with that opinion. A lot of them wont go through with it, because they aren't impressed with the procedure. I was impressed with many doctors work I saw. I am just saying there are many girls that will not go through with it because of that concern.

[peggygee]

31 % of transsexuals commit suicide Peggy. Thats a fact.



While the mortality rate of transwomen is higher than the general public,
the suicide rate isn't 31%.

And it certainly isn't 31% for post ops.

[MrsKellyPierce]

No because there are less post ops but not all are happy and if you believe that you are in a dream world. Being an activist you should know better Peggy. Over half of the girls that came back after their full ops regretted it at Laser Lovers. Which was suprising to me some of them had very good work done. Would you consider those girls not transsexual? That was the case in point, not a battle of what you think or what I think.

[postopadmirer]

Thats really awesome! It's amazing how sometimes people can change their opinion or views off of a sex board. However if thats what you yearn for I'd go for it. Life is short, you only live once. There are many doctors that can turn you into a beautiful human being, but in all serious I'm so glad you typed that.


Kelly,

Thanks. If I could pull off looking half a good as you, I'd go for it. I'm just too much of a realist. I know it might be better than I fear but unless they start breaking bones ... it just won't end pretty or cheaply.

You on the other hand just keep getting better.

POA

[alphanumeric]

Fuck that "being complete" hoodoo. Imo transsexuality is simply a treatment to end gender dysphoria. And no one can get in your head and tell you at what stage of transition you've successfully gotten past your own gender dysphoria. The HBS are outdated anyway. There are far more case studies now than there were when it was written.

Do you wanna see a hot mess? Just look at all the TS's who got their $4000 firecracker pussies in Thailand but never embraced their femininity, if they ever had any to embrace in the first place. They still reek of masculinity. A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers.

doesn't that sound like an arguement for the standards then?That's a pretty ambiguous question. Can you be a little more specific?

what I mean is that according to you "A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers" so
they should have had to do the two years living as a full woman before
they got their SRS (although to me it simply sounds like more TS on TS bitchiness than anything...)

[ironx]

hmmm.. readin' all the above I can't help but wonder..

A good friend of mine had cancer on a testicle.. so the doctors removed it.. unfortunately 2 years later the second one had to go..

that's when trouble came..

He was not himself.. they gave him testosteron to replace the natural testosteron, but the problem was (is) if the dose is to high, he turnes into this very tough hard personality, dose to low and he'd be as soft as a pussy cat.. finding the balance is very difficult the doctors told him..

Now with TS taking all sorts of hormones.. I guess this must have a huge impact to their mental state... and might account for the high numbers Kelly mentions..

[justatransgirl]

I totally agree with this and glad to see you back girl. I think the Standards of Care needs to be updated. Psychologist only wish they could grasp what goes inside the mental capacity of gender identity.

I'm not back honey, just participating in a few topics worthy of my collassal ego. :-)

Spending 3-4 hours a day right now commuting to OC on some business. And Jessica's in finals, and my Mom's down here in her condo, and Christmas is coming up, and we're going to SF, and I'm going to maybe get lasik next week if there's a cancellation, and our other surgeries in January...

And our housekeeper went to the PI for three weeks, so oh my GOD, we are having to do our own laundry and house cleaning.

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[alphanumeric]

what I mean is that according to you "A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers" so
they should have had to do the two years living as a full woman before
they got their SRS (although to me it simply sounds like more TS on TS bitchiness than anything...)"Simply sounds like", huh? :roll: Wtf? Why are you putting words in my mouth? You obviously have no idea what I meant.

then explain it more to me.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Fuck that "being complete" hoodoo. Imo transsexuality is simply a treatment to end gender dysphoria. And no one can get in your head and tell you at what stage of transition you've successfully gotten past your own gender dysphoria. The HBS are outdated anyway. There are far more case studies now than there were when it was written.

Do you wanna see a hot mess? Just look at all the TS's who got their $4000 firecracker pussies in Thailand but never embraced their femininity, if they ever had any to embrace in the first place. They still reek of masculinity. A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers.

doesn't that sound like an arguement for the standards then? That's a pretty ambiguous question. Can you be a little more specific?

what I mean is that according to you "A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers" so
they should have had to do the two years living as a full woman before
they got their SRS (although to me it simply sounds like more TS on TS bitchiness than anything...) You are missing the entire concept read my long out explaination and not a shortened version above Nicole's

[alphanumeric]

Fuck that "being complete" hoodoo. Imo transsexuality is simply a treatment to end gender dysphoria. And no one can get in your head and tell you at what stage of transition you've successfully gotten past your own gender dysphoria. The HBS are outdated anyway. There are far more case studies now than there were when it was written.

Do you wanna see a hot mess? Just look at all the TS's who got their $4000 firecracker pussies in Thailand but never embraced their femininity, if they ever had any to embrace in the first place. They still reek of masculinity. A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers.

doesn't that sound like an arguement for the standards then? That's a pretty ambiguous question. Can you be a little more specific?

what I mean is that according to you "A vagina does not make you a woman. Essentially, many of them are castrated crossdressers" so
they should have had to do the two years living as a full woman before
they got their SRS (although to me it simply sounds like more TS on TS bitchiness than anything...) You are missing the entire concept read my long out explaination and not a shortened version above Nicole's

I've read both. I'm taking exception to HER statements not yours.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Just because you follow all the HBS and get SRS, that doesn't necessarily mean you had enough potential to smoothly transition. You have to face the world, not the HBS. I'm not saying you don't have every right to do it. But just because you have the right, and follow all of the requirements, you have no guarantees to transition as successfully as other people may have.

Just catching up on some reads today since it's my day off. Nicole does make VALID arguments with this one so I'm in complete agreement with her above statement. HBS set the standards true but not every individual who's followed through all the requirements has the making of a successful transition. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[alphanumeric]

I'm not saying you don't have every right to do it. But just because you have the right, and follow all of the requirements, you have no guarantees to transition as successfully as other people may have.

See? Now that was a much better explanation.

[alphanumeric]

If anyone doesn't believe this, go to the transgender discussion group held once a month at the GLCC here in Wilton Manors, FL. I went to one, and those are the postops you'll see. They know the HBS like the back of their hand, but they are still struggling with the collective public. I sympathize, but I think they all help each other stay extremely delusional about how well they're passing. All I'm saying is that a few reality checks might have done just as much or more good for them than worrying so much about having a vagina.

True, but at the same time Transitioning is really a relative and personal experience. Plus all the girls that are on here I would have to say are the top 10 percentile of "passable" girls. not everyone who wants to transition can look like jen or kelly. and because of that I have even more respect for them because it's even harder for them than you girls. even though they themselves know of the hardships that await them, They still try anyways.

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If anyone doesn't believe this, go to the transgender discussion group held once a month at the GLCC here in Wilton Manors, FL. I went to one, and those are the postops you'll see. They know the HBS like the back of their hand, but they are still struggling with the collective public. I sympathize, but I think they all help each other stay extremely delusional about how well they're passing. All I'm saying is that a few reality checks might have done just as much or more good for them than worrying so much about having a vagina.

True, but at the same time Transitioning is really a relative and personal experience. Plus all the girls that are on here I would have to say are the top 10 percentile of "passable" girls. not everyone who wants to transition can look like jen or kelly. and because of that I have even more respect for them because it's even harder for them than you girls. even though they themselves know of the hardships that await them, They still try anyways.My heart goes out to ALL my TS sisters who had to figure out just what the fuck to do about being born with a cock instead of a vagina. But we're here on a forum where looks do count. However, life is not always a shemale beauty contest.

But yes, when I went to those meetings, I did feel somewhat blessed compared to some of the TS there... But blessings-shmessings -- I want MORE SURGERIES!!! :)

:lol: